Pathfinder General - /pfg/

>>49778433
Are the Psychic Warriors and Infusions playtests even still going on?

>>49778433

They act friendly even before I show them I have money.

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Avowed fucking WHEN, Forrest? I want my warlock!

What's the current status of that DSP remake of truenaming? I read about it like a year ago, and haven't heard anything about in a long while.

>>49778473
No clue, but didn't feel like unilaterally removing them from the OP.

>>49778499
The first draft of it was unworkable. They gave it to Ssalarn, Ssalarn left.

So it's probably in limbo again.

>>49778568
Well shit. I guess I'm going to have to stick to the old 3.5 version, with the homebrew fix, for my worldbuilding then.

>>49778433
Tempted to make a Inquisitor what is the class like? It's that or druid or psion what you say is good about these classes?

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>>49778433
I've got a new campaign coming up, and while I have a concept for my character I don't know which class it should go with.

Core concept of the character is he's a con-man and thief who pretends to be a great hero, and is actually just hunting for glory and profit. This means he will often act the hero, saving damsels and so forth, but only if there is moeny to be made or the chance to build his reputation for heroism. Flowing golden hair, gleaming muscles, white and shiny grin, almost no morals. Think Gilderoy Lockheart with a Dash of Moist Von Lipwig.

I want him to be ok in combat obviously, but I also want him to be able to perform assorted skills and potentially be party face.

>Rogue:
Pros, sneak attack, stealing skills built in
Cons, no mechanical reason to have high Charisma

>Swashbuckler:
Pros, Charisma a core ability, plenty of style built in
Cons, Fewer skills, I don't much like the skill points pool thing

>Investigator (Sleuth archetype)
Pros, Plenty of Skills, Charisma serves a purose
Cons, Messy class, luck pool

Any advice from anons? I kind of want to go High dex low armour, which is why I looked at Swashbucker and Rogue, but that's not necessary.

>>49778671
Flavor-wise, Swashbuckler sounds like what you want. Swashbucklers are designed to look like they know what they're doing, but survive though a combination of wit, swagger, and luck.

Mechanically, I don't know this game well enough to tell you which is best. Have you considered dipping into another class for your skills?

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>>49778671
>tfw no idea which 3pp publishers to contact
>tfw no idea how to contact them
>tfw I feel like I'm just gonna be laughed at by them
I don't know how to do this man.

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Sup, /pfg/
Give it to me straight - is this homebrew I'm working on worth pursuing?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rx0a2T6p_ADX0I74-yonZLc2NPyUuVSqACEFOZ1Oahk/edit?usp=sharing

>>49778671
Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) 1 / Bard X.

Get Fencing Grace at first level, a panache pool scaling off 2 stats, Parry/Riposte, and still be a Bard. Go Arcane Duelist if you want to be less skill-y, and more fight-y, Vanilla or Archeologist otherwise.

>>49778773
What are you trying to contact a 3p publisher about?

>>49778815
For starters commit to a new class or an archetype. It's fine to have classes similar to other classes, and it's even okay to rip class features as long as it feels unique out justified enough. Just look at investigator's alchemy.

>>49778842
Getting homebrew published.

>>49778874
okay, how about the class features?

>>49778773
I'm >>49778671, sorry I should have siad the GM is being fairly loose, I'll take any tips and check with him on them.

>>49778759
I am leaning Swashbuckler, I'm always wary of multiclassing though.

>>49778839
As above, but that archetype sounds interesting, I was planning on going decent Int, and favoring the rapier... I like it. What level would you recommend going Bard?

>>49778663
Divine Bard, but rather than buffing the party,
you buff yourself.

You've got a great mixture of knowledge and social skills, and it's piss easy to get bluff/diplo/intimidate keyed off of wis instead of cha.

Your spell list isn't great, but it's got most of the good buffs (the lack of Barkskin and Mirror Image hurts).

Saves scale as a cleric, so most save or sucks are going to bounce right off you. Even with a d8 HD, you're still quite tough to take out because of the defensive boosts you can get from judgement/spells.

You start out super slow, because your signature ability is only 1/day until 4th, but once you get multiple judgements per day and Bane, you became a fucking powerhouse.

>>49778895
2.

There's no reason to go more than 1 level of Swashbuckler, unless you plan on going all the way.

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>>49778886
Cool, well what's it about? Personally, Purple Duck Games or Wayward Rogue Publishing are pretty good first publishers.

As for whom to contact about it, most of the time the websites for publishers will have a contact page, it's best to use the email address listed there. That's how I was able to get in contact with Legendary Games (I got in with PDG through a request on their end).

Feel free to ask me anything about the process.

>>49778891
Jetpacks and even powered suits aren't totally out of line for PF, but as for nanomachines, son, it looks like you're aiming for that high sci fi PF crowd so you should only be concerned with their opinions.

/pfg/, how do I make a horde necromancer? How do I find a GM willing to let me play one?

>>49779016
Roll a goblin on Wyrmrest Accord.

>>49778433
>What are some of the red flags you've used to spot obviously evil villages with far too conveniently located inns?

One time, we went ashore on an uncharted, clearly uninhabited island that we had on good authority was home to a necromancer and our ship's captain was absolutely sure didn't exist until he saw it for himself, got a little ways into the woods then heard screaming from the ship and turned to see it burning and sinking, trudged through the woods and found a large-breasted young lady who owned a bathhouse and invited us to stay the night.

And our GM was legitimately surprised that we didn't take her up on it. I ruined that entire session by refusing to go back there.
That was one of the many lessons for our GM to not railroad us.

>>49778935
>Feel free to ask me anything about the process.
What is the process like? What do they expect out of your end? Are you active anywhere besides here that you would recommend to someone looking to get 3pp material published.

>>49779084
>What's the process like?
For me, I just send in an email to a publisher with a pitch, trying to be as respectful as possible. With PDG, I was answering a call for content, but I try to show what I've written if at all possible.

>What do they expect out of your end?
Initially, just a pitch. A pitch should be about 250 words or so that give a good idea of what you want to write. Make sure you hit the high points, give enough of a feel to let them know what you want to write, and make yourself sound competent.

>Am I active elsewhere?
I'm active here and the Paizo boards, and the paizo boards are generally a pretty good place to hit up as well. Also for new publishers, Flying Pincushion is also pretty solid. They actually specialize on working with new talent.

I mean there's a ton of 3ps out there, I can only speak for the ones for which I've written, but for a first project, you generally don't have a hard due date (hell, I only work with a due date about 50% of the time), so it's really a good chance to take your time and feel out what you want to do.

Also the first thing you get published will probably suck. It happens; sometimes I bond with authors over how our first books were trashed by EZG. Don't expect your early work to knock it out of the park.

>>49778922
I might go for a second level just for the use of charmed life, +cha to saves a few times a day could be a lifesaver.

>>49779147
Yeah, what I'm looking at for what I have been creating (been around here for months, been putting it up for folks to see slowly) is three classes and 10 archetypes for said classes. The three classes are finished and ready for playtest, of the 10 archetypes 5 are done, but should take far less time than the classes themselves. I have another completed class, but it doesn't fit the theme of the other three at all.

Likely I'm going to try and get people from here to playtest it, but won't "start" the playtest till at least tomorrow because its so late.

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>>49779201
For an initial pitch, at least to a publisher, I'd try to keep it focused on 1 class with the information that you have more. Take the one you're feeling most confident about, put that up on the playtest wringer, and see what you can squeeze out. I'd also suggest putting it up on the Paizo boards so you can link to the thread when contacting a publisher, it'll make it seem more legit. Your playtest technically should go in the homebrew section, but I've heard tales that some 3p have actually scouted people from the homebrew section after having read over their work.

Try to keep your focus tight, and if you can, I'd say keep your word count at around 6k-12k if at all possible, since you can always expand from there.

>>49779226
The three classes are all on a single tight theme as they are an Unchained Fighter, Unchained Cavalier, and Unchained Gunslinger.

I'll start heading over to the Paizo forums I suppose.

Honestly only 6-12k does not seem like something large enough, but I'll take your word for it as the one with experience.

I think I'll at least finish the other planned archetypes first and probably playtest here first as it's the place I'm been plodding along in, and bring it to the paizo forums for a second round.

>>49779256
Trust me, I know. But you can't throw everything you have right away, there's rarely a publisher who will give 20k words to a new face. Hell, KOP 1 was only around 12k or so (which is why KOP 2 happened).

As long as you can show your initial unchained work is good, the rest will follow, you can make it as a set later. If your initial pitch calls through, it also lets you go back and retool everything with the knowledge of what didn't work about your initial pitch.

For something like this, I'd say PDG would be good, they're pretty generous on size for initial projects, and you'd probably end up having each unchained class in a different book for them. I don't think they've done any unchained classes myself, which is another reason I suggest them.

The paizo boards are great for visibility to 3p publishers, so don't be afraid to go there. The homebrew section is pretty welcoming.

>>49779293
Each UC class, with its archetypes & iconic come in at around 7-9k words.

I'll give PDG a look once the playtest gets underway, and move over the paizo forums to show things off once I've refined it more and think its time to contact a 3pp.

Thanks for the advice.

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>>49779338
That's a more manageable number, and one I think you could use as a selling point. If you do get clearance for all 3, I'm sure you could eventually get all 3 put into its own compilation.

Let me know if you need help with anything else, we writers gotta look out for each other.

Now here is the real question. I am still undecided on the races of the Iconic Unchained Fighter/Cavalier/Gunslinger.

I've about decided on Hobgoblin being the Unchained Cavalier, but have not decided on anything else.

Anyone have loud or angry opinions?

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>>49779574
Maybe Unchained Gunslinger is Halfling and Unchained Fighter is Half-Orc?

It was the first thing that came to mind.

How do you build the supreme swordmaster( no 3rd party)?

>>49779574
How about an Ifrit and Oread

>>49779615
There is always Autism Fighter.

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Approximately what tier does the Mystic fall under in terms of power?

What if it's a squire?

>>49779574
kobold gunslinger

>>49779640
3

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>>49779659
Cool, thanks!

>>49779038
In case you aren't memeing, I don't have a WoW subscription, and I wouldn't want to RP on there anyway. Do people actually play PF on WoW?

And regarding my question (>>49779016), I found "Brewer's Guide to Undeath - A Necromancer's Handbook." It seems like I'd want to be a cleric? How do they compare to Juju Oracles?

>>49779640
Tier 2
Magic Item crafting is broken bullshit.

This might have been asked before but what is the general consensus on prestige classes? If they are generally not good, are there a few good picks?

One of the prestige classes, the Stalwart Defender, looks interesting. It gits the fantasy of being a giant wall for your comrades. Has anyone played one and is it decent? Not looking for optimal or what ever.

>>49779829
Most are garbage. Some have uses if you're building toward a very specific thing such as my idea of an Exemplar Brawler/Bannerman Cavalier/Battle Herald.

One thing Paizo actually did right was redesigning classes to make staying in a single class from 1-20 a better choice.

>>49779629
Oread would fit fighter well.

>>49779658
I would except for how trash kobolds are stats wise.

>>49779944
Is that what happened with the Eldritch Knight and the Magus?

>>49780014
I'd imagine so.

>>49780014
Essentially, yeah, although EK still has place in fringe builds.

>>49779944
Dipping is still really good if you are martial, it's just usually limited to non-PrC classes.

>>49780041
Fringe build? Sorry, I am not familiar with the term.

>>49780055
I use the term for weird builds that are optimized to do something but aren't really "good" in the traditional sense, or even really playable for normal games.

>>49780116
So kind of like one trick ponies?

>>49780136
And builds that "get online" at like 18. But yeah, one trick ponies where the trick isn't even that great.

>>49779574
I've said this before, but I'm still in favor of using bugbear/hobgoblin/goblin for your iconics.

I want to play the fantasy of summoning multiple creatures. Which archetype helps facilitate this fantasy?
Broodmaster or Master Summoner?
I want to be a pokemon master, throwing rocks to summon creatures and create a mini army.

>>49780251
Preservationist may be more up your ally (it's also significantly weaker than Master Summoner, however).

It's once again homebrew hour and I once again am behind in my projects.
Let's see your shit /pfg/.

>>49780251
If you want to be an actual pokemon master, be a Spherecaster specializing in Conjuration, then take Extra Companion 5 times.

>>49780284
In my continued quest to make firearms not completely worthless I wrote a bunch of weird feats today:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WVcUJX8hT1t0HJyR2bcXT61oz_GEGCdg3IJP9iUBeyg/edit?usp=sharing

(Last page of the doc, rest of it inst new)

>>49780314
>>49780280
Well the rock throwing was just fluff. trick people in to thinking i summoned creatures with these "magical stones". haven't heard of the alchemist one and I would have to convince my DM to allow 3pp. But thanks for the ideas/help.

Entering a mid-level game with an inexperienced as fuck GM (to the point he only let us have up to 2 feats outside of core), gonna play sohei but I don't know what to pick as my last core fear (already have imp grapple, trip, combat reflexes, power attack, dodge), thinking on step up or deadly aim, any idea?

GM really wants to GM and it's his first time

>>49780518
>mid-level
Which level exactly? If it's 5 or more, your new GM might be in for a nasty surprise when his carefully crafted rai... plot falls apart as wizard flies, druid flies and burrows, and fighter opens all the doors and some walls with his adamantine sword.
I'd recommend to start at level 3. It's hard to get shanked with a rusty dagger, and pretty hard to accidentally break some aspect of the game, even without trying.

>>49780551
7th level, and we already talked to him about starting earlier, but he's pretty convinced on 7th level

>>49780566
Also group is urban barbarian switch hitter, scroll scribbling potion crafting bard and my sohei

>>49779955
Ifrit gunner. Finds open holes faster than a match or a flintlock.

>>49779955
Kobolds aren't trash for Slingers.

Slingers don't give a damn about strength.

>>49779640
Mystic would be a pretty great squire because they can craft magic items for you.

Though, even as a full initiator, being 3 levels behind you would potentially make it a deadweight in battle.
Buffing your party with glyphs is nice though.

Question:
building a wizard for a campaign, and i was looking over the Break spell.
It says an object must pass a fortitude test or break.
how do i know how much Fortitude bonus an object has? i ca't seem to find it anywhere

>>49780787
2+half item CL, or whoevers holding its save, whichevers higher.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/damaging-objects

Any tips on romancing Iomedae?

>>49780833
Speak Celestial to her.
She's all business, so treat it like an interview.
Have at least 11 legendary deeds on your resume.

>>49780914
Does she prefer sexual experience or chastity and purity?

>>49780958

She fucked a dragon, dude.

What is the best class to go along with Geshalt Magus?

I was thinking Barbarian for hit die and BAB, Aegis for amazing armor and BAB, Stalker for powerful criticals and a little bit of extended critical threat range, or Wizard for better spells and more spells.

>>49781488
And? Considering dragons are gigantic (literally) sluts it's not that big of an achievement.

>>49781536
Something INT-based and not using much, if any, actions in combat. I'd go with aegis or vizier.

>>49781560

I don't know where I was going with that, probably that Iomedae wants sexual restraint but has some adventurous kinks under the surface?

Can someone explain me why if you have weapon finesse you can't grapple using dex with your unarmed attacks but you can grapple using dex with a finessable grappling weapon?

>>49781536
White haired witch.

>>49781560

It means she's not that hung up on a potential BF being all pure and innocent choirboy. She's into heroism and fighting evil. She's obviously lawful and honorable, but if she's been around with dragons, she's not likely to make a big fuss about being your first.

>>49782137

Pretty much.

Iomedae realizes that fighting for good is a deadly struggle, and one of the easiest ways to relieve the stress of this lifestyle is a hard fuck. She doesn't mind celibate soldiers, but she wouldn't condemn a man that's stuck his dick in a few girls before her.

>>49782157
She would condemn him for not knowing her history just right, or being too confident or not confident enough.

Other than that though, anything with high charisma is open season for her crotch

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>>49778433
Hey guys, I posted here the other day, but I need some more advice. I am but a babby to PF.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Card_(3.5e_Class)

I'm playing a Card, but I wanted to k.ow about utility spells with it. I know normally utility spells are extremely important for a spellcasting class, but with the randomization of spells in this one, should I just focus mostly on combat spells instead? Also, outside of combat could I just keep drawing from my deck until I found the spell I wanted?

One more question. This class can prepare spells from Wizard, Druid, and Cleric lists. Are there any absolute must have spells? Any ridiculous combos?

>>49782231
why exactly is "a babby" using a 3.5 homebrew from the final hell pit of homebrew sites for the d20 system anyways?

>>49782231
>dandwiki.com sourced homebrew
Run anon. Run right now. There's no time to ask why, just fucking RUN!

/pfg/: I need the help of some experienced GMs.

I'm running a rein of winter campaign, and we just got to the "rasputan must die" book. Previously, I've had problems with how the books organizes and runs the opponents.

It seems that the opponents are incredibly dumb/on rails. The problems started when the players tried to defend that sky-fort thing. For example: once one of the party members displayed his high proficiency on fire-balling bitches out of the sky, it seems that sending drakes for an aerial attack would be a really bad idea. Likewise, when the players get teleport, and intentionally let one drake flee to scry on later, there isn't even really a map or a plan of defense for the enemies when the barbarian/sorcerer murder-combo teleport into their home and starts going to town. I basically had to re-invent the whole book as terms as encounters went.

I was thinking of running Rasputin as a much more capable and intelligent enemy, but I still want it to be a good fight, and not a "you wake up with fifteen demons in your bedroom". What kinds of tactics do you think Rasputin should use on the players? I want him to attack them multiple times via astral projection and the like.

I was thinking of re-building him from the ground up. Any tips on this?

>>49781536
Depends on what you want to do as a Magus.
Alchemist (Vivisectionist) will turn you into a nova-damage machine. Aegis gives you a bunch of very helpful abilities such as alternate movement speeds, Mettle/Stalwart, and Powerful Build. Witch (White-Haired) gives you an extra hand to use, which is something that is so useful I can't even list all the reasons why in this post. Inquisitor (Living Grimoire) gives you an automatically-scaling book for if you ever wanted to Shocking Grasp with a fuckoff-huge tome.

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>>49778671
Sweet fancy jesus, anon, I hope you come back because when you asked for help you were apparently only met by idiots or shitposters.

>Swashbuckler
is the single greatest trap in all of PF. It's pure shit-tier because it's completely choked by swift actions and you only get one of those per turn. It's good for a 1 level dip, but not much more beyond that.

>Inspired Blade/Bard
You already need dex to hit, str to damage, con to withstand melee and now you're mixing an int-based swash archetype and cha-based caster? No thank you. This is a nice framework, but it's just too MAD to work so you should think about switching the bard out for something that has a very similar feel, but uses int-based casting: the beguiler. You can find all you need here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6bKY5cuGjh9VFA1OF8xVmtqWjA/edit
It's 3PP so make sure that's okay with your DM, but it'll do much better than a bard for the character you're looking for (bards are great for buffing the party, but a selfish con-man is a better fit for a beguiler).

If your DM insists on Paizo only, I'd suggest going with the Daring Champion archetype for the Cavalier. It blends the Cavalier and the Swashbuckler, two of the worst Paizo classes, and somehow ends up being something halfway decent. Order of the Cockatrice will just help further your PC's characterization as a selfish jerk.

>>49782896
>You already need dex to hit, str to damage, con to withstand melee and now you're mixing an int-based swash archetype and cha-based caster

The whole point of Inspired Blade is that it lets you pick up Fencing Grace at first level, meaning you *don't* need Str for damage. Inspired Blade is a pretty solid dip even if you don't have all that much in the way of INT.

You still get your Charisma modifier in panache every day - it is just harder to recover it.

>>49782943
Not the anon you're responding to, but fencing grace forces you into pure one-handing which is a terrible fighting style in PF. I'd much rather build around TWF with the Deadly Agility feat which works fairly decently on the Beguiler chasis since they can cast while TWF with a feat.

>>49783038
>fencing grace forces you into pure one-handing
Just like almost every other way of getting dex-to-damage in first party content. The only alternative is a three level dip in URogue.

Can somebody explain bardadins to me? Like is there any specific synergy beyond the bard's spellcasting and the paladin's advantages from high charisma? Does it work only as a gestalt build or is there a certain mix of class levels that makes it really take off?

>>49780251
There's class on the SRD called the Monster Trainer which is just that, really.

>>49783330
Isn't that broken as heck?

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>>49783190
define explain bard-a-dins

They're a gestalt build. I doubt there's a way to make it work in a non gestalt game

I just shitpost about it a lot cause i played one

>>49783373
Pretty sure Synth is more broken, at least that's what Paizo says

>>49783190
It's a meme by people who want to rp slutty paladins essentially.

>>49783497
How's that at all relevant? Other than to shit on paizo? It's a 3pp class that, if I recall reading correctly, is broken.

>>49783541

>Slutty paladins
>Not pure bards

Really a glass-half-empty kind of person, aren't you, anon?

>>49783373
Sort of? I played with one, they weren't especially powerful compared to the other casters. As long as you keep to the monster CR limitation, and give them reasons to not just attempt to capture every monster more powerful than a goblin (although that's more a "stop the game slowing down in the same damn shit" thing than about power), they're relatively balanced from my experience.

>>49783541
>bard-a-dins
>sluts

No, thats anti-bard-a-dins

>>49783619
I just know /pfg/, thinking anything else is deluding yourself.

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So! Who all's excited for the weekend? Any big plans, game-related or otherwise?

>>49783646
So it sounds like "As long as you don't use their abilities" they're not broken?

>>49783672
No, more "they don't shove a specific ability into everyone else's business, they're OK".

>>49783711
So as long as they don't go around capturing every monster, by using their class ability, to get a greater versatility they're not broken.

In that case 9th casters aren't broken, as long as they don't go around using shoving their spells into everyone else's business.

>>49783772
pretty mcuh yeah

>>49782658
guys?

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Here comes round 1 of the Unshackled Martials play test! I will be running each week a small scenario to play test it during the playtest's run. If you wish to participate please follow the link below and either contact me via the contact email or comment on that section.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pUevSnzc65Xw2cx3ah7iL7s1BBx0bVeF8xKlL0uFIcQ/edit?usp=sharing

What will be being playtested is the following:

The Unchained Fighter
Ultimately the goal of the Unchained Fighter is to give the fighter something that is uniquely their own, where as before they were mainly reliant of feats. This is done through expanding upon both Advanced Weapon and Armor training. In addition it seeks to increase their OOC utility through the introduction of Equipment Training. It seeks to make the Fighter into more of the archetypical Soldier in style.

The Unchained Cavalier:
The Unchained Cavalier seeks to make the Cavalier a martial support class through the introduction and updating of several class features. Tactical Prowess now allows the cavalier to impart teamwork feats to others far more effectively. Standard Bearer has been updated so that the Cavalier now flies one of a number of banners, each imparting different bonuses. In addition the variety of mounts has been vastly increased to include mythic and magical creatures.

The Unchained Gunslinger:
The Unchained Gunslinger seeks to create a martial debuffer, and one that can do this at range. Grit has been updated to give the Unchained Gunslinger a far larger pool, and Deed have been changed entirely. Now Deeds are chosen from a list, similar to other class's talent class features. They come in a variety both offensive and defensive. In addition to aid their utility both in and out of combat they have been given contraptions, which range from snake oil and traps to teleportation rings.

Updates will be incoming as I add in the UC Cavalier's & UC Gunslinger's archetypes, as well as a list of Iconics for each class.

I have a poison-using Stalker. How can I optimize my poison save DCs?

>>49784797
Poisons are hard to optimize outside of really low levels. If you can find a way to get a scaling poison like the Vishkanya racial poison, that would be the best way.

>>49778494
Hopefully will have the full playtest for book 1 up sometime next week. I've been balancing work/school and writing, and am making good progress.

>>49784797
Poisoners Stance from the Steel Serpent discipline is a good one, but I guess you already have it, don't you...

>>49784111
What's tiers are these?

>round is 6 seconds
>people want to end fights in 1 round
>combat takes 6 seconds
that is pretty unclimatic

>>49785440
Most fights are.

>>49785440
How much would it fuck up the game if I changed it to a round being 10 seconds.

>>49785477
There's absolutely no reason to do that at all.

>>49785440
/pfg/ has really fucked up expectations about power level and how the game is actually played.

I need advice on monster design.

I'm planning an encounter based on the 4th plague, the nature of which turns out to be less determined than most of the other plagues. Scholars can't decide if it's flies or wild animals, I guess, so my plan was to split the difference. I want swarms of flies with the ability to coalesce into wolf-composite flies, or something along those lines. And I want them to be able to alternate forms to harry the PCs.

Is there any kind of monster or template that does this? What kind of action should it be for these things to switch in and out of swarm form?

>>49785477
We're already stretching at 6. At first level you can throw a quick punch, and that's it. Sit around for five more seconds. That said, changing the scale doesn't do much.

>>49785477

Spells and effects with durations listed in minutes would suffer in combat.

>>49785502
What is abstraction.

>>49785507
Good.

>>49785507
This. That's about it.

>>49785440

The epic fight against the Uruk-Hai in Fellowship was like two minutes, tops.

>>49783668

Nothing going on this weekend, but next is the start of Knights and Knaves, featuring a dad-mode hobgoblin, a loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules, a justice-minded silver dragon and a righteous squire seeking to break a curse that left his lord a toad and he a she!

>>49785440
A difficult combat probably lasts between 4-6 rounds. 1 round combats aren't really a thing because you can not both incapacitate and kill all enemies in one round unless your GM is doing something wrong.

between 24-36 seconds for fierce combat seems fine. This is a single skirmish and not an entire battle. Generally you shouldn't expect hard fighting to last several minutes.

In an extended battle most of your time would be spent marching around.

>>49785400
Mostly higher tier 4, except for possible the Loremaster (Fighter Archetype) and Bootleg Alchemist (planned UC gunslinger archetype) which will likely fall into tier 3.

>>49785559
Abstraction in PF usually refers to taking a real or fantasy concept like health or aptitude and representing it with numbers and arbitrary scaling. Hitpoints, skill points, ability scores, levels, and more relevantly to this discussion, the action economy of characters are all abstractions that help codify the game into mechanics that are easy to work.

>>49785735
Good. Now take a shmuck with no or basic hand-to-hand or weapon training. Can he throw 3-4 punches or slashes at something in 6 seconds? Probably. How many are likely to hit? PF says exactly one.

>>49785595
3-4 minutes
And that alone would be like, 30 rounds

>>49785774
Is it ever codified anywhere that an "attack" represents a single punch or swing of a sword?

>>49785774
No, PF says you may roll to find out whether one punch hits, and doesn't say that the shmuck has to spend his other five seconds flailing about like a madman in order to have a chance with that one, as the attack need not be a full round action (although even if it is, it changes nothing). That shmuck can be trained in making unarmed strike or have multiple "feats" worth of training with a weapon and it remains true.

>>49785652
rarely 6. 5 tends to be the far end of combat length, 4 is a long fight, 3 is the usual, 2 easy. If it's 1, that was a taking down a sentry or a total massacre;
>You can see there's four kobold farmers, and about seven children as well
>Full-Auto with the Madsen!
>Chain-Lightning coming online here!
>GREATER CLEAVE POUNCE THING!
>Calling down a Flamestrike!
>... I... I said 'farmers and children' right? I... those WERE my words, guys, right?

>>49785495
I remember someone digging old Mindflayer beastiary entry and said the words "This guy can be killed instantly by ragepounce barbarian, why on earth is this guy called iconic?"

Same with Beholder

>>49782383
>>49782571
M-my DM recommended it, senpais...

Am I in for trouble?

>>49785878
If your long combats are 4 rounds you're doing something wrong as a GM.

>>49786002
Or something right depending on how the group wants to play.

>>49786002
Anything over 7 rounds with nothing to shake it up is just tedious.

>you will never get to play a cute flustered Minos paladin girl

Why live?

>>49785905
>>49785495

It's not only /pfg/
Some of us noticed this problem back in early 3rd edition. Basic combat forms like "uh, I power attack with my axe" were ensuring that unless you were 1 on 1 (in which case without optimization you WERE going to die) "boss" enemies like fucking dragons only had maybe 400HP. And by level 11 you were going to swing four times at it, for 30+ damage, with only the last one being more likely to miss than hit.

Even TWO of you doing damage were dangerously close to two-rounding the thing, and that was with basic basic builds.

So when people, after up to 15+ years of experience in the subject, look at a Beholder and think "how's that supposed to live through the first round", It's a learned response by GMs and Players who tried fighting those things with anything but completely stormwinded characters (like the dex 7 barbarian who uses deadly aim with his nonmagical crossbow after deliberately taking flaws from a splatbook to add another -4 to all his ranged attacks. *TRUE STORY* btw... I've had someone prone to bouts of stormwind in my IRL group for some time)

Optimized characters are looking at that dragon and going "so, you think we can do two in the surprise round?" And they're not WRONG. A bunch of level 12 combat monster characters may just be looking at one each if they can get a crit.

>>49786085
That's why games with optimized groups have to be planned differently

>>49786002
More like the only way to make it longer would be a very very big map and a LOT of enemies, because by mid levels anything in the bestiaries that isn't "LOL, DEITY" just CANNOT lead to that long a fight. Rocket Tag is primarily a basic mechanical problem, not a DM Encounter problem. Even getting 4 rounds out of a fight one way or the other generally requires quite a bit of DM skill to set up already.

Either it's going to get utterly demolished in one or two on its own, OR, it's capable of surviving five fucking rounds against the party going full tilt, which means the party PROBABLY CANNOT LAST THREE AGAINST IT.

>>49785867
>>49785774

That one punch is meant to represent a character spending six seconds sidestepping, dodging and trying to get an opening to strike.

Higher level characters are able to see more openings.

>>49786148
There's a reason why boss encounters should be more than one monster

>>49785983
Sorry, anon. dandwiki is full of shitty, unbalanced homebrew and is just generally not a good website except for OGL content. Your DM allowing it is... a little worrying,

and now i feel like an asshole. i don't even watch anime why does this hit me

>>49786198
And you don't want to use DnDWiki for OGL anyways, use d20srd.org

>>49786056

What's stopping you? It's literally one question to your DM away.

>>49786056
>tfw the one Minotaur race I found had some almighty fucked up stat modifiers

Guess we gotta make our own.

>>49786228
No anon I am the dm

>>49786120
Obviously, but the point was primarily that even groups with fully non-optimized characters are going to be capable of quite a bit more damage than the monsters can handle, and rather quickly at that.

And the problem is, they have to be, because the monsters themselves have high damage growth as well. Damage ever since 3.0 climbs too quickly for monsters, and their HP too slowly to make fights anything but a threat of rocket-tag. Even status effects are too binary; It fails, or the thing may stop dead in its tracks permanently because Paralysis or Stun kicked in.

The problem starts with the basic math of the monster creation system.

>>49786247
Someone homebrewed one up recently for an old west setting they're working on

>>49786247
Is there a skinwalker that gets a gore? Just go with that and refluff the look.

>>49786247

Minos is +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int with +2 natural armor and Powerful Build.

That is pretty much the ultimate bruiser race, with 25 PB it can easily be a powerful Paladin too.

Yes, you too can be a Holy Cow!

>>49786296
Wasnt the natural armor an alt trait?

>>49786272

>tfw I can't not kill things in one hit after everyone softens it up
>tfw I'm always given those looks

Now I know how Saitama feels.

>>49786311

It was, but anyone playing a martial would take that for the extra AC.

>>49786330
Maybe not. The gore trait was pretty crazy too

>>49786120
that is just extra burden on GM

>>49786362
Do you actually expect there not to be a difference in play styles for ignorant players and players who actually know the mechanics? Like in any RPG ever?

>>49786349

Depends on what you're going for, I guess. Personally, my moo would be decked out in heavy armor with an earthbreaker and have some cultural traditions with using the horns like only using them to fight rivals.

>>49786388
Players who know their shit should not skip responsibility on making characters that fit the campaign
If the GM has little time to spare, then you don't fucking push it further

>>49786395
I'm just saying that double damage on the charge is pretty nutty and usually deserved for mounted combat

Both traits are quite good, probably better than whatever trait was the default.

>>49786085
>"so, you think we can do two in the surprise round?"
Happened to me with my hobgoblin crit fighter 1 rounding a Old Red Dragon when he was level 12 because he happened to get three crits off in his full attack.

The enemy was supposed to be a fun boss battle apparently, but it just didn't happen.

>>49786444
Its not that hard for a GM to build encounters for a group that is more optimized

The key to never forget is action economy.

>>49786463
Encounter design is hard and takes time
Saying otherwise is bullshit

>>49782896
>is the single greatest trap in all of PF. It's pure shit-tier because it's completely choked by swift actions and you only get one of those per turn. It's good for a 1 level dip, but not much more beyond that.

Spoken like someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the deeds work automatically, a handful of them fight over swift actions and basically only come into play when you don't want to deal damage.

>>49786450

The race certainly has some options that make it a very appealing choice.

>>49786463
What is really hard is to build encounters around characters of wildly different levels of optimization.

I've had before someone bring to me an optimized debuff cycle witch and someone else hand me their charisma rogue in the same party. I told them the issue, but they told me it wouldn't be a problem. It ended up being a problem when the rogue was an active detriment to combat and he began complaining.

>>49786198
Shit. Yeah, I was pretty confused looking at the homebrews, a lot looked like unfinished garbage. Well, I already locked in my race and class. Wish me luck.

And yeah, my DM can be retarded sometimes. He's the most experienced out of our playgroup, but I don't think that he really does stuff correctly 99% of the time. Love him, though. He's just a dummy.

>>49786485
If you can't be assed to make encounters for your players then go play risk instead.

>>49786296
That is honestly dumb strong for anyone who plans on going into melee. Str/Con is fantastic. He could easily be an inquisitor, paladin, or warpriest.

>>49784797
Multiple doses increase the save dc and duration, in PF. If you can land alot of attacks it can help.

>>49786515
witty retord

>>49786537
Of course if you can land multiple hits you could just kill them quicker instead.

>>49786485
>encounter design is hard and takes time

Yeah, and its hard and takes time regardless of the level of your party's optimization

now get the fuck out my face

>>49785495
holy shit, the truth around here?

>>49786494
Its at least competitive with humans for martials, which is nice

>>49786560
Except there is premade stuff for average level

>>49786580
The premade stuff isn't made for average level. It's way too easy, and that's been a constant complaint about it.

>>49786580
modules are too easy for most 4 man parties, even low optimization ones.

>>49786485
Encounter design is the GM's job, and if he can't hack it then he shouldn't be GMing. Plain and simple.

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>>49779574
>Fighter
I know it's a novel suggestion but how about a human

>Cavalier
Yeah hobs are fine, duergar are honorable in an anti-hero sense as well

>Gunslinger
Maybe go for a dhampir, Bloodborne witch hunter type flavour

I'm thinking just as much for marketing as cool ideas; people like at least one human self-insert sort of character, and people fucking love vampires.

>>49786588
means and medians anon

>>49785495
Yes they really do. /pfg/ has a lot of issues with echo chambering and warped expectations of the game. It's mainly the fact a lot of people here haven't played a lot of classes are certain level brackets and instead simply shout what they've heard others say about them.

That and there is a lot of hero whorship of certain groups here and what seems to be a need to demonize certain parts of paizo (to the point there are fake charts and misconceptions about the setting people have perpetuated simply to justify their anger).

That and the obsession with "lewdness" that /pfg/ has to the point they would rather talk about dicks than actually talk about the game.

On a whole /pfg/ is a pile of hot garbage, but, to an extent, it is our pile of hot garbage.

>>49786522
Paragon races tend to be like that. But no one, including Paizo after Core, can be bothered to throttle the power of their races in a reasonable way.

>>49786627
The premade stuff isn't for average level.

Why do I get the feeling people also like the Minos because it lets them play hunks with broad chests and chiseled jaws, or hotties with cute lil tails and big boobs.

>>49786632
there is nothing wrong with lewds.

>>49786580
>>49786588
>>49786598
Premade stuff is just a template, you don't actually run them as is unless your PCs are using the template PCs or are poorly optimized like they are.

You have to know the module and encounter design well enough to re-calibrate the challenges in them for your own PCs who are likely going to be playing stronger characters.

>>49786600
The key thing that was said before was "if the DM has time". If they don't have the time to build a perfect encounter every week, a mature group would take on some of that responsibility.

>>49786644
NO SHIT.

thats what we're saying

>>49786653
I've never heard of a group building an encounter for a dm.

>>49786632
>>49786640
>>49786641
Pottery

>>49786666
You've missed part of the conversation. >>49786444

>>49786606
>I know it's a novel suggestion but how about a human
Human male fighter? You really think I'm that level of degenerate?

>duergar are honorable in an anti-hero sense as well
Duergar would show off the burrowing mounts rather well.

>Maybe go for a dhampir, Bloodborne witch hunter type flavor
Probably won't do it for the main class, but if I make iconics for the archetypes a dhampir mysterious stranger with the coal cloak would be great.

>I'm thinking just as much for marketing as cool ideas; people like at least one human self-insert sort of character, and people fucking love vampires.
True. Humans and human offshoot races are popular. I personally don't like how pervasive humans are among the iconics. I should probably add a female iconic as well, likely the hobgoblin. Military service in hobgoblin culture doesn't give a shit if you're male or female.

>>49786653
And? Not having enough time to design decent encounters is basically the same thing as not having enough time to set up for your session.
You're unprepared and you need more time, least you short your PCs with a sloppy rushed mess they'll breeze through easily.

>>49786675
If all the players are playing at relatively the same level, and the dm doesn't have time to make encounters for them then the dm doesn't have time to dm.

>>49786600
I hope that isn't the attitude you take with your GM

>>49786654
So quit bitching, it's not hard.

>>49786704
>The GM should GM even though they don't have the time to GM
What?

>>49786701
I don't get fucking paid for building encounters in d20
So no, I do not have lot of time for it.

>>49786720
Are you going to GM then instead?

>>49786750
I am GMing, yes. I don't run game every week because of work and school, so I run less often. My players still seem to be enjoying it and combats have been much closer because of it.

>>49786702
Well shit, then I guess there should be no game at all rather than making an attempt to figure something out.

>>49786772
Or, or get this. Maybe just space out games a bit more.

>>49786718
i'm not bitching

>>49786600
A well built group can easily limit the GM to just a few ready options at a level range to challenge players. These quickly become boring, however, so a good GM has to spend a lot of time for such a group coming up with creative ways to challenge them. In addition to his other duties, this can constitute an undue hardship. The issue here, as usual, is the assumptions we make going into a game, which ultimately comes down to a matter of opinion and taste. Some people like playing with crappy rolled characters against rolled encounter tables and that's fine. It certainly makes the GM's life easier.

>>49786792
More time between games just makes players less and less engaged and invested in it

>>49778473
Aren't they considered ongoing until the actual book/pdf gets released?

>>49786644

Wait, does this mean the Kineticist is actually effective in APs?

>>49786684
>Human male fighter? You really think I'm that level of degenerate?
Sorry, I forget where I am sometimes. Sylph dual-wielder? Oread with a great hammer?

>duergar
A couple of the orders have pretty good asshole-honourable flavour too.

>dhampir
Aight, vanara then, I dunno.

>>49786846
Ah I get it now, the DM shouldn't have to build encounters to match the players but they MUST run game every week.

>>49786898
Well it is either once or a week or once 2 weeks or once 3 weeks.
Once 2 weeks already pushes people into quitting easily since they forget about it
Really, from experience I have found that only way to keep people engaged is you make the game regular enough that they make it a habit to show up

>>49786881
you should make it a minos

>>49786932
Golly Gee you've convinced me. I sure am entitled for not playing a 15 point buy core monk for my DM. Anything else and I would forget the game even exists.

>>49786879
monks are effective in vanilla APs desu.

not even unchained ones.

when you realize the level the game is really played at by the retards in PFS, you realize how insane /pfg/ really is

>>49786830
Once you become experienced enough this becomes easy. I GM for a group of optimized level 8 characters. I mostly challenge them with enemies with PC levels accompanied by monsters. I'm able to build a character between level 6-14 at a reasonable level of optimization in 5-10 minutes (except full prepared casters who take 15).

You simply build one then give it monster allies to support it. Or build multiple enemies with PC levels.

I find PCs fighting NPCs with PC levels provide the most challenge. I don't really change the enemy's levels too much for when I want to really challenge the party, just how much time I spend optimizing them.

Like for instance the last encounter I had was a terrorist alchemist and his oozes. The party had to fight their way through a warehouse, into the sewers, and then into his secret hideout. Overall they fought these encounters:

>dock workers controlled by brain oozes
>an intelligent crystalline ooze with sorcerer levels in a room full of crystal growth traps
>crocodiles
>the alchemist's igor (a slayer) plus the pets (two advanced dire wolves with a few other templates)
>the alchemist in the ooze birthing chamber

All five of those encounters took me maybe 45 minutes to plan, the longest part of it being building the alchemist.

>>49786987
/pfg/ isn't even that insane, most folks here can't optimize a character out of a paper bag, particularly full casters

>>49786964
>theres no difference between 15 PB core monk and "murders anything that sits next to it"

>>49786963
You and the possibly one or two other people that mention them really need to shut the fuck up.

>>49787023
But that's what the premades expect me to play. Either I'm what's expected from the premades or I'm too much for the DM to handle. That's the argument I've been hearing.

>>49786987

Wait, so what does that even make us? I mean you're suggesting the bar is absurdly lower than we set it, and yet here we are.

>>49787045
>That's the argument I've been hearing.
Then you gotta pull the cotton out of your ears buddy. Even premades are built on 20pb.

Really the only thing you have to take into account is not purposefully designing a character to exploit the rules to end encounters in one round. Stuff like ragelancepounce would fall under this. Even just a pouncing barbarian isn't really a problem. Wizards who spend their time in a demiplane making simulacrum are a problem instead.

Or get a better GM who can adapt a party and build encounters quickly.

>>49787071
normies

>>49787027
probably

>>49787074
>Really the only thing you have to take into account is not purposefully designing a character to exploit the rules to end encounters in one round.
Which no one has been arguing for. There was one hyperbolic statement about /pfg/ expecting combat to be over in one round and that's it. Everyone else has been saying 3 rounds is the average combat length.

>>49787095

Reeeeeee.

>>49787071
/pfg/ is essentially in an arms race with itself. Games recruiting out of /pfg/ compete with other autistic people from here who "want to be the best". One of the biggest trends I've found is no one on /pfg/ wants to be at any point upstaged by anyone else, and thus will really push to be the strongest in as many instances as they can. Since you compete against folks with that attitude it causes everyone to be in a push forward, while people without that attitude get left behind.

The system doesn't expect you to optimize to that point by a long shot. The fact that it allows to this point it is an oversight brought on by content bloat.

The real problem isn't strong PCs, it's a party where PCs are vastly different power from one another.

>>49787118
See then you're fine. Also you should attempt not to fall into the "I must not be outshined" mentality I talked about >>49787125

Every character should have their place and not entirely eclipse another.

>>49780339
What BAB are the additional shots made with Devastating Shot when you have the Vital Strike line of feats?

Otherwise seems pretty cool, I like giving stuff to proper two-handed firearms instead of dual wield pistol shenanigans.

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>>49787125
>One of the biggest trends I've found is no one on /pfg/ wants to be at any point upstaged by anyone else, and thus will really push to be the strongest in as many instances as they can.

I just want to play a fun build that won't be invalidated by some casting monstrosity conjured up in the Pathfinder shadow labs, is that too much to ask?

>>49783038
>pure one-handing which is a terrible fighting style in PF
Use Scarlet Throne maneuvers, they want that as well or using a two-hander.

>>49787125
>One of the biggest trends I've found is no one on /pfg/ wants to be at any point upstaged by anyone else, and thus will really push to be the strongest in as many instances as they can.
I don't recall seeing any posts like that. I have seen people asking for recommendations on how to fulfill a concept or what they should do to make their character better. Being better != being best.

Well, I guess I have seen people asking how they can fuck over their games, but they're usually told to shove off.

>>49787344
Landsneckt prestige class from PoW:E only works with a onehander and empty ofhand. Good class.

>>49786312
That's exactly it. A ridiculous number of people are too stupid or retarded (sometimes both) to realize that you can't NOT brutalize your targets one way or the other. They're also quick to assume "damage is op because you'd get a save against the instant-win spell".

It's also where gunslinger complaints come from: Instead of making monsters and npcs TOUGHER when APs want to give us a hard fight, they instead just give'em a higher AC.

But heavier armor does fuck all against a nat 20, it does fuck all against touch attacks, it does fuck all against spells, does fuck all against autohits and/or "the roll is on the target's side: save or" abilities, and so on and so forth.

But this is a party game; multiple characters with multiple actions a round.

>>49786148
This exact thing is why I'm hesitant to GM for people online.

The players in my face-to-face group understand I warp numbers behind the scenes to make a fight feel meatier, or to just end what had been a slog of six or seven rounds. Getting that across to strangers seems like it would get me slapped with a "That GM" tag just because I'm not running creature stats straight out of the bestiary.

>>49779574
So based on this and previous posts the suggestions as as follows:

>Fighter
Oread
Half-orc
Human
Bugbear

>Cavalier
Hobgoblin
Halfling
Duergar

>Gunslinger
Kobold
Halfling
Tengu
Goblin
Ifrit


The whole Goblinoid Iconics still tickles my fancy, but would require me to make and put the Bugbear race stats into the UC fighter, which I am unsure about for actual publication desu.

I'll put up polls now because everyone likes voting in polls.

Fighter:
>http://www.strawpoll.me/11429435
Cavalier:
>http://www.strawpoll.me/11429441
Gunslinger:
>http://www.strawpoll.me/11429446

Also a bonus poll:
>http://www.strawpoll.me/11429451

>>49787358
I don't mean what people ask for, more my observed style of play people have once they get in it. People who were there to erp are often a lot better about not hyper optimizing because they're too busy walking it, not to say they make for better players of course.

>>49787330
Nah, not too much to ask.

>>49787384
Indeed, it's probably my favorite PoW prestige class.

>>49787458
anyone who expects stats out the bestiary is a dummy anyways

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>>49787530
It doesn't help that, to cope with the players' current power level at 7th/MT2, I end up needing magical effects they can't loot off the bodies, either as SLAs or potions or even scrolls...

>>49787590
I see you've got mythic casters. There's your issue! Seriously though, Mythic is shit.
Where is that character even from? I've seen them a lot here in different pictures.

>>49787611

That's Katia Managan, from the hit web-comic "Prequel."

>>49787630
Danke! Is it any good?

>>49787590
I always just figured in the bonuses from whatever gear or magic an enemy needs to be effective without actually making it gear. So the party doesn't just keep accumulating cloaks of resistance and what have you.

>>49787662

It's pretty fun, though you should know going in the author likes to make Katia suffer.

>>49787611
Actually, neither of them are mythic casters! Well, at first. One of 'em died so I let her build a blaster sorc.
Didn't let her take Wild Arcana because that is a fucking stupid ability.
They also won't be getting past MT4, so there's that as well.

>>49787630
Nobody but MisplacedParrot thinks Prequel is a hit webcomic.

>>49787674
This is what I do, plus one-use items. It's just easier that way.

>>49787590
>>49787674
CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING: Wondrous Tattoos. All of the "magic items" are magic tattoos.

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>>49787700
You're going to see a lot more skinning.

>>49787590
I have never actually had trouble challenging players. You just explain to your players that not every encounter is one they can win and go hog wild. If your players expect to have to run away a portion of the time the fact some of your encounters are wildly above their station is simply par the course. It's rather fun too because it makes the world actually feel more alive that it doesn't level to the party like some video game.

>>49787717
This implies the players are smart enough to take those words into consideration.

I'm locked in kid's gloves until these two figure out that running away, scouting, and even just /talking/ are options that are vastly more survivable than diving in sword-and-fireball-first.

Even then, one of them died to a shadow. At 7th level with one mythic tier.

>>49787763
They learn after they've died a few times. You say this to players, actually follow through, and then have them rebuild characters.

If they agree to it when you say it and you don't follow through they'll lever learn.

Bitches gotta get their shit kicked in occasionally or they are gonna just stay the way they are.

>>49787662
"Making A Cat Cry: The Adventure"

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>>49787814
>>49787689

>>49787794
Tell that to a literally pouting 30yo man. I'm not saying he's a good player, but he's entertaining to play with.

There was a situation where they lost the fight full-bore and both were pretty much begging me to not kill their characters, which I'd already planned for because fuck if they're not predictable. Ever since, I've been giving the guy a hard time and his fiancee more of the spotlight just in terms of how combat plays out.

>>49787691
I think Prequel is doing pretty darn well for a webcomic that updates, what one per six months now?

>>49787844
Fuck me, it was on hiatus for like 8 months and I forgot about it entirely.

>>49787831
Don't worry, she has her moments.

One actually made me cry a little what with the music.

>>49787865
I was reading Meek for a bit, that went on hiatus for a couple years.

>>49787844
Kaz has learned the valuable lesson of not trying to do what is apparently the biggest update they've ever done AND a merch drive in which they do everything themself at the same time.

>>49787713
Option 1)
>You see the tattoos start to fade as the creature dies
Option 2)
>You see the tattoos start to fade as you remove the skin
Option 3)
>Explosive Runes tattoo, or other spell that can hurt the party that goes off when you attempt to remove the tattoo

>>49787878
>>49787831

If it makes you feel any better, she's not the plaything of a malicious, tear-thirsty author anymore!

>>49787893
You say that but there's no reason he couldn't do some minor updates in between instead of shitposting on /co/.

>>49787908
I like that last one. Just put it on their back or butt.

>>49787908
Option 3b)
>the explosive runes tattoo destroys the rest of the tattoos in the process
Option 4)
>removing the skin does not allow you to utilize the tattoos in the first place

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>>49787839

There are people who bitch and moan about the threat of death in combat? I *love* getting my shit kicked in, it's basically my favorite. I only feel truly alive when my character is on his last legs, hanging on by a thread as he gets one more action before the enemy's turn.

It's the weirdest feeling, but I love getting pushed down more than being an unstoppable force, because it means I get to either die a hero's death or get back up and stand stronger than before.

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>>49787975
>yfw

>>49787975
tell em more about how you like being abused anon

>>49787975
Some people don't like making new characters. Not liking character deaths doesn't necessarily mean not liking threats. Especially with having to come up with in game reasons why the new character fits in the plot, the party, and new motivations. Just because you lose in combat doesn't mean you have to die.

>>49787908
>>49787938

My concern would be:

If all/most/many of the enemies the party encounters are boasting magical tattoos, they are likely to conclude that the enemy mastermind is a tattoo artist.

>>49788030
Then... Make the mastermind a tattoo artist?

>>49788030
Adaptive tactics. Make it clear that the WORLD knows of their power, not just BBEG.

When you get Mythic, people tend to notice. The only way the people know to stop the adventures from climbing in power since they can't stop them is tattooing themselves.

Have a shopkeep say something or have one of them make a perception check and see a wanted posted or something.

Has Inner Sea Temples been uploaded yet? What about Curse of the Crimson Throne Hardcover?

>>49788030
... Yes and?

Tattoo artist terrorism in pathfinder is terrifying

Imagine sucide bombers with explosive runes tattoos in cities, every time someone reads their tattoos they go allah ackbar, and there's no way to check people without setting them off

>>49787975
>At zero hit points, prone, and disabled on the ground. Your next standard or movement action will leave you in the negatives, unconscious, and dying. The powerful orc saunters over to your soon-to-be corpse, and places a single foot lightly upon your bleeding chest. "Ha! I could crush your weakling sternum and skewer your inside with the bits of your own shattered ribs in a heartbeat you sickly pale sack of shit. I could yank your eyes out and squeeze the fluids out of them down your throat that you may choke upon them. Oh how I'd love to savor your end. You are a worthless peon who belongs not on this warrior's path and it would be best to end your miserable existence now. But I am a warrior as well, and I will swing my Earthbreaker at your head to end our encounter honorably and swiftly. Or perhaps, I will miss. Pray to your gods, boy, the fateful hammer comes now!"

>>49788045
I guess it works fine if you assume that all the PC's enemies are in league. Otherwise, though, you're looking at one major vendor of magical enhancements willing to sell to any bad dude in the world. Probably imitators, too. I mean, for magic tattoos to proliferate like that, they'd have to be more cost effective than regular magic items.

The more I try to poke holes in this, the more it actually sounds like an awesome premise.

>>49786632
Actually a lot of us have played a *lot* of classes in a *lot* of level brackets. Some are in many games. Hell I've been in 3 campaigns on average at a time for the last three years, and had already been playing pathfinder IRL for a decent while before.


Personally I've had about two dozen characters ranging from Psions to Gamblers to Reactor Knights (I playtested for months and am still bitter ssaalarn wouldn't listen and ran away) to Clerics and Rangers to Hawkguard Warder and a pure aegis (and half of the above had an aegis dip around 3-4 levels long), gunslinger, alchemist, investigator, inquisitor, mystic(into phoenix champion), warsouls both melee and 'tech cannons', and even a vizier.

Some of those were quite clearly much, much better or worse by default than others; you need so little optimization to make a hawkguard warder at least function, compared to a ranger or a gunslinger for example....

>>49788010
>Just because you lose in combat doesn't mean you have to die.

Oh yeah, that's fine by me too, anything that involves my character losing is great, with the only exception being I lose a bit of gear in the process (please, cut off my hand or gouge out an eye, but *don't* take my Belt of Giant's Strength +4.)

>>49787999

See above, I like describing how his ribs crunch under the blow of a warhammer, or he falters and falls to a knee while afflicted with the Bleeding condition, or roleplaying that acute sense of dread that comes with seeing yourself hopelessly outnumbered while your friends are three rounds away. Every party needs a guy willing to get his shit kicked in, and I guess I'm just the man for that job.

Besides, being the medieval equivalent of a crash test dummy isn't without it's perks; lose an arm? Sounds like an opportunity to spend a session looking for a bitchin' silver replacement, or get an eyepatch for that ugly-lookin' hole (I wasn't using ranged weapons anyway!)

>>49787975
Good deaths are good and bad deaths are bad.

What about a savvy villian that casts spells on his important minions such that when they are reduced to negative hit points/low health they burst into magical flames that destroy them and their equipment And any information that they may have given out

>>49786987
That's not us being insane.
You're LITERALLY comparing yourself to bottom rung special-ed students here.

Their parents were already S.P.E.C.I.A.L and their resulting chromosome count's four suites minus jokers.

That's not you being ridiculous, that's staring at the marianas trench and going "dude, we're so high up we must be in the stratosphere"

>>49788143
Last time I had enemies who were really willing to kill themselves rather than give out information (they had suicide pill hollow teeth). The players nearly left the game, especially when I had enemy suicide bombers.

They told me that suicide bombers were unrealistic. I pointed to the french terrorist attack in nice that had happened earlier that day.

>>49788143
Like a forced contingency? I just used brainwashed villains who, when low on health or outmatched, cast an enhanced fireball centered on themselves while screaming some fanatical phrase.

>>49787125
>by content bloat
except the worst stuff was already in the core.

they never learned their lesson; you'd be right if we were talking about 3.0, but that was three quarters of an edition ago with a different name on the covers.

>>49788165
A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, ‘You are mad; you are not like us.

>>49788180
Or even a magic item that does it.

>>49788138

Well yeah, but DMs have a habit of knowing which is which when it comes time to decide if a PC should live or die.

>>49787458
we all do/know the monsters tend to be modified and customized dude.

the thing is, when discussing balancing and design, you don't start with the homebrewed end results. the standard which we are speaking and comparing things with is actual RAW.

we all know the RAW is fucked, but it IS the default rules and assumptions - what things are supposedly built around, and without a proper measuring standard (a meter stick if you will) you don't have a comparative basis to work from, that everyone can turn to the specific page or entry so we all know where everyone is coming from.

We all modify our games; but from the written rules as a base, as there'd be severe communications failures if you started talking about what changes you made to pathfinder USING GURPS AS YOUR RULE BASE AND IDEAS FROM FUCKING RIFTS, right?

>>49788030
That, or like what >>49788063 said.

If I didn't already have an excuse for enemies increasing in power, I would definitely run with that. For now, tattoos are gonna be more of a side thing, especially since the players are within 4th-level spells still.

>>49788238
>GURPS, Rifts
I don't even know the basis of either of those systems.

Honestly, the majority of my modifications are the odd alteration to special abilities, mostly to cope with some power spike the players have abused a few times in order to force some fucking flexibility into their coping mechanisms.

>>49788184

Is that not what happens here whenever someone comes in posting advice or suggestions outside the norm?

>>49788310
pretty much

/pfg/ is a quivering mass of optimizers and psychos who can't help themselves but to make something that can blow a boss away in a single combo

PFS is a a fucking shoggoth of absolutely retarded idiots who really believe that the monk is broken cause he can catch arrows n shit and that gunslingers and maguses are unstoppable combat beasts.

>>49788340
>PFS is a a fucking shoggoth
Why does /pfg/ keep using shoggoths in ways that make no sense to me?

>>49788391
>shoggoths
>making sense

?

>>49788391
I thought the entire point of shoggoths was not making sense.

>>49788391
>Why does /pfg/ keep using shoggoths in ways that make no sense to me?

He's saying PFS is an amorphous blob of builds and plastic opinions that bubble and burp to the surface for only a moment before sinking back into the fetid depths of their idiocy, driven only to perpetuate themselves and pipe out the words of their old masters, Tekeli-li!

>>49788402
>>49788409
What part of your green soapstone star heads fail to comprehend a simple genetically enhanced fleshy work beast? Did did your tendrils perhaps miss the proper keys on your radially symmetric keyboards?

>>49788474
"oooh i'm one those shoggoth purists"

Glorp yourself, kanzcat.

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What's everyone up to tonight? Gonna have some fun in a session, out of a session?

Is step up worthy for a martial?

>>49788483
In all seriousness though we probably should stop mixing this Earth life DNA with the mindless shoggoths. I saw them put one down the other day when it grew a hard shell and started skittering around like a trilobite.

>>49788547
it depends on if your DM actually makes enemies intelligent.

>>49788560
i dunno that seems kinda cool

fuck the police

>>49788540
Playing guitar tonight, gonna send the equivalent of an adult white dragon at my L7 party on Sunday, should work out alright as one of them is a fire mage.

Got a sylph oracle in there that looks like Anastasia.

>>49788560

Shoggoth don't need to absorb DNA you silly goose, semi-plastic automatons that can spontaneously grow organs as needed.

Therefore that Shoggoth was skittering around after observing the advantages of a shell, and merely copied the structure.

I thought you knew how Shoggoth worked, are you sure you're an Elder Thing, or a Mi-Go?

>>49788340
I dunno 'bout you guys, but this definitely describes me. I mean, in my case it's because I have a pretty poor understanding of actual enemy toughness and how much I need to contribute, but more importantly, because I have incredibly low self esteem and I'm terrified of being useless, stemming from my experience being kicked from guilds in WoW for not knowing how to gear my character (and thus hyper-optimize them.)

Anybody got the screenshots for Deific Technique or whatever it was called? I think worshipping Desna gave you cha to damage or somesuch? I have seen it, but I was a fool and didn't save it.

>>49788675
>Shoggoth don't need to absorb DNA you silly goose
That's what I'm saying, the Shoggoths business is bonkers. Shoggoths cannot copy advanced nervous systems do they've been breeding these tainted batches to give them greater autonomy in the workplace. It might not be today or tomorrow, but I think that kind of meddling is going to backfire and their odd behavior these last few million years is just the first sign.

>>49788540
Downloading music and adding music to Fanburst so I can get music for my Roll20 game again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB8CbpRYZDk


I'm having fun.

>>49788749
Please, a shoggoth can't violate the 3 laws of shoggothics.

>>49788753
I need to figure out how to do that but i am also a lazy whore what do

>>49788782

Whore yourself out to someone who will do it for you.

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>>49788722
#1

>>49788540
Putting together material for a halloween one-shot next week. Going for a house on haunted hill/resident evil thing.

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>>49788722
>>49788810
And #2

>>49788772
There's just no winning with you Things.

>>49788810
Oh boy, I need to whore out dex, get two feat taxes just so I can get CHA to damage and attack with a shit weapon.

>>49788782

>Get a Fanburst account
>get files you want and upload them to Fanburst
>make sure they're downloadable while uploading them
>Search for the songs you uploaded using the Roll20 Jukebox feature
>Add song

That's pretty much it. There should be a good amount of stuff already up there, but there isn't nearly as much as there was with Soundcloud.

>>49788749

You're clearly one of those surface worlders, down here our Shoggoths can grow brains at a whim, it's what helped us build these magnificent cities the Starspawn of Cthulhu only dare to rival.

>>49788810
>>49788830
thanks, senpai

>>49788843
What? The initial benefit only requires a single feat with no pre-reqs

>>49788540
Moving! To Boston!

And then getting ready to run a new game! Of something other than Pathfinder!

>>49788844
thanks for subsidizing my lazy whoredom

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>>49788889
Haha, I made you call out on my being dumb. Who's the dumb one now! It's me, I can't read good and stuff...

I need a reference that explains you can't adjust your 2h grip (free action) for a claw attack after already using both hands for the weapon. My group is not super experienced with pathfinder and the DM is sort of just rolling with it. I find it overly cheesy but I'm not gonna beat them over the head about it unless I have something to show.

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>>49788916
of you're you're dumb you're the shittest macross girl since minmay

>>49788941
Ask if you could do the same with quickdraw and a dagger

the answer is clearly no.

>>49788889
I'm somewhat confused about the optional prerequisite. Does the style do nothing without taking the optional prerequisite? Is it a way to pick up the style without burning a feat? I'm confused as to why one would choose to grab it if it is unnecessary.

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>>49788981
of course you're dumb holy shit i cannot write

Maybe i'm the dumb one

Maybe i was the Freyja all along

>>49788540
Trying to find people to play test.

>>49788540
Might work on Navaros some more or just be a lazy slob and play vidya instead.

>>49788993

It's okay anon, I've been dumb for the past two years.

At least you're a cute girl, though!

>>49789033
I know that feeling. Maybe we can do some combined testing later tonight or tomorrow on roll20? Group situation testing is important too.

Hey lads, how do I reignite that spark of actually sounding like a fun human bean to my group? Right now I feel like the awkward quiet guy that sounds like an asshole whenever he says anything outside of a session.

This isn't a problem I have with other groups either, which just confuses me because those groups are voiced and this one is text.

Maybe I'm just a normie?

>>49788992
Alright, there are 3 ways to gain use of the "Divine Fighting Techniques". The first is taking the "Divine fighting technique (combat)" feat. The second is by trading stuff out as a cleric, inquisitor, or warpriest(see the "Emulating the Gods" section). The third is by the "Optional Prerequisite" which allows you to give up specific class features to gain the effect without actually having to take the feat. Make sense?

>>49789112
Yeah, thanks a bunch. I saw that and thought, "Paizo has made mistakes in the past, but they can't be that incompetent. I better ask."

Lo and behold, they were not. Once again, thanks a billion.

>>49788981
>Ask if you could do the same with quickdraw and a dagger

>the answer is clearly no.
They will almost certainly cite the mechanical differences between natural and manufactured attacks. How irritating.

>>49788941
It's not explicitly stated that you can't take a free action in the middle of a full attack so far as I know, but the rules for readying shields may act as a precedent suggest free actions are normally taken in between other actions unless stated?

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>>49788540
Building another gestalt character just for extra practice.

>>49789267
just refer to it as to how a hand is occupied making an action occupies that hand.

>>49789323

Fancy that, I'm building two gestalts to present as potential alternative characters for that knightly campaign!