Pathfinder General - /pfg/

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When's the last time you've played a Drow or featured non-hostile drow in a campaign, lads?

So I'll ask in the new thread instead.

I'm playing in a one-off tomorrow. It's a 25 point buy and we're starting at level 9. Let's say I buy an ability score to 18, could I then use my +2 racial modifier to get 20 or is that against some rule?

Is there any way to gain a dual identity like ability via feats besides Nameless One?

Also, what happens if you put on a different mask/pretend to be someone else when you have the Nameless One feat?

>>49760528
Yes, that's fine. It's very common for classes that really only need one stat.

>>49760532
Just pump skill points into disguise

>>49760526
Played a half-drow bard whose half-sister was a murderous assassin obsessed with his dick once.

>>49760547
Much obliged, anon.

>>49760528
That's totally normal. A multi-ability-dependent class or playstyle might forgo the chance for a 20 but it's not required - might even be said to be rare when point buy is in play.

>>49760564
Anon, he asked about what games you've been in, not what weird anime from either the 80s or mid 20teens you've seen

>>49760526
The Drow in my setting are basically just matriarchal slavs.

The males who reach the surface and manage to integrate are amazed at how much better things are than in "the old country," while females complain about the lack of the comforts of home like slavery, giant spider livestock, and tormenting male drow with no social consequences

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>>49760526

I'm in a heavily modified Throne of Night Campaign that's been going on for over a year now, drow side. Extremely high amounts of roleplay of generally decent to good quality. Currently exploring an island in the middle of a giant underground lake. Shit's freaking great. The GM even commissioned art of characters that were active for more than a year.

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>>49760608

>Female Drow turn into Jewish women, big tits and all

>>49760592
It was real. His best pal was a werebear sorceress. She didn't like his sister much.

>>49760528
Only times you pass up a 20 is when you're playing a frontline spellcaster (which for things like Clerics and Druids is still just an optional playstyle because they have the magical might to spend all their time wizarding it up in the back row if desired).

>>49760622
It gets especially great when one male Drow makes it to the surface, then writes home to his entire extended family about how they should join him in the paradise that is the surface, resulting in a massive Drow family becoming a fixture in whatever settlement happens to be closest to the spot where they get out of the underdark

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>>49760665
>>49760622
>>49760608
>ITT
Nihil novem sub sol
What is, has been, and will be again. There is nothing new under the sun.

>>49760532
Look into the Vigilante.

>>49760665
>>49760622

>You will never marry a Drow woman and grow to simultaneously love and despise your existence as she insists on introducing you to her extended family
>All of them

The deli food is pretty good tho, who knew the Drow had a thing for tongue and pickled cave fish?

>>49760694
I originally got the idea from that thread

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>>49760705
Why would a human go through all that trouble? By the time you could take on mindflayers, you could have your pick of nearly any other woman in the multiverse by wealth alone, not to mention your skills that got you there.

Why not choose a woman who won't be a total bitch?

>>49760704
How does the Mask of Anonymous Mien work if you're a vigilante with a Change Shape ability? ie. Reptilian, Kitsune with Realistic Likeness etc. Can you have multiple dual identities?

On the note of Nameless One, how does it interact with Forgotten Past (Story)

Asked this in the old thread by accident, oops.

How strong/bad does this mechanical concept sound for a discipline?

>None of the strikes do any bonus damage on their own, but once per round whenever you land a hit with a strike from this discipline, you gain extra sneak attack damage dice equal to half your initiator level, and apply it to damage if the normal sneak attack conditions are met

>>49760856
Actually once per round is pretty tiny damage, remove that bit, and then assume the discipline includes multi-hit strikes very carefully.

>>49760856
Like, just knowing the discipline grants you sneak attack?
What's stopping me from just using a actually damaging strike with the sneak attack dice?

>>49760694
чepнoжoпыe

>>49760810
Fetishes are a thing.

>>49760907
No, using a strike from the specific discipline gets sneak attack dice.
But, like normal sneak attack, it only triggers if you flank/deny dex.

This means all the strikes are actually focused on debuffing, but if you get the positioning right they also give not-awful damage bonuses.

And the sneak attack is instantaneous and doesn't qualify you for prereqs.

>>49760810

Name (3) races with ashen skin, large breasts and a habit of having tons of sexual experience.

>>49761016
I mean I don't think the boobs are always the case? Breast size... varies. And the sexual experience would... mostly be rape, wouldn't it?

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>>49761016
Do drow even have large breasts? Aren't they elves? And like Malnutritioned?
Clearly we need to make half-drow, half-human and raise them on a proper diet.

>>49761044

Drow are typically portrayed with voracious sexual appetites and busts that range from massive to human-sized, which is impressive for an Elf.

It's not all rape either, and much of that is the "fuck me or you die/because I own you" type of rape

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>>49761119
>It's not all rape either, and much of that is the "fuck me or you die/because I own you" type of rape
Oh, so the rapey rape?

>>49761119
I don't think that's actually canon so much as the artists who drew Drow all being particularly horny at the time.

>>49761132
I mean... yes. As opposed to Drow getting men too drunk to say no.

Shockingly I think this is WORSE.

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>>49761132

Before this becomes a huge chain of misunderstandings, you implied the Drow habit of raping anything and everything means they're not well-versed in sex. This is untrue, because Drow have access to Drow men who simply aren't in a position to say no, or stud slaves who *can't* say no.

Yes, both of those examples are being raped, but they're being raped in such a way that the Drow matron is getting sexual experience.

Besides, was it not canon in the Baldur's Gate series that Drow were legendary for their sexual prowess? I recall two separate characters talking about that.

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To this entire thread.

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>>49761160
>I don't think that's actually canon so much as the artists who drew Drow all being particularly horny at the time.

Pathfinder art tends towards giving Drow substantial busts - about the size of Humans sure, but Elven women in comparison are always drawn leaning towards the slender side.

>>49760945
>And the sneak attack is instantaneous and doesn't qualify you for prereqs.
So every single initiator using it would dip rogue? This feels like a Stalker archetype that replaces Deadly Strike with Sneak Attack, not a theme for a discipline.

>>49761176
Yeah, but that's sexual experience in pleasuring herself, not you. Like I don't know shit about the male orgasm, but she probably doesn't WANT you to come inside her. Or at all.

>>49761202
Is the cat mad that dusky elves are being talked about over fluffy tails?

>>49761264

She's a stupid Maine Coon that just wants to be called cute!.

>>49761257
To be fair, male orgasam is really easy, and if chad'zak is cannon...

>>49761284
The idea of Chad'zak should be fired out of a cannon.

>>49761284
>>49761302

The Drow worship Lamashtu, you better *believe* chad'zak is canon.

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Oh my, lads, I knew you were freaks but this thread is blowing me away!

How does warding weapon work?
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/spells/wardingWeapon.html

It blocks ALL melee attacks?
Or ONLY attacks of opportunity?

>>49761489

How I am reading it, it doesn't fundamentally block attacks. It only makes it so that you can cast in melee without needing to cast defensively.

>>49761521
It says
"It blocks melee attacks"

That's it.
so what the fuck is wrong with these people
why the fuck can't they describe anything correctly

>>49761521

>While it protects you, you can cast spells without provoking attacks of opportunity, without the need to cast them defensively.

The first part is flavor.

Paizo really needs to adopt whitewolf's system of separating flavor and rules text.

>>49761545

I agree. These should clearly have a section dedicated to effects and another section dedicated to flavor and fluff.

Something like

Effect: You won't get a fist in your ass by the hostile monk if you cast within his threat range.

Flavor: You strip naked and oil yourself, blinding anyone around you when you cast spells due to the rapidity of movement and light bouncing and gleaming off your glistening skin.

>>49761587
Too vague. What about other holes? Can the monk fist your urethra?

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>>49761612

>>49761612

Whoa man, I think that's crossing a line.

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>want to play a Suli E. Flux-primary Mystic
>Sulis do not make good Mystics

Well, there goes that idea.

>>49761717
Why a mystic?

>>49761717

I know how you feel man, I don't think I'll ever get to play my barbarian goblin again. I love you, Kneecapper von Skriggetz

>>49761729
Because they're the only PoW class I know of that gets E. Flux natively instead of needing a tradition for it.

Unless Expanded changed that?

>>49761755
Couldn't you just take the trait or tradition on any other initiator?

>>49761755
Unorthodox Training trait

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>>49761774
I literally forgot that exists.

I feel dumb now.

Is there a pdf of horror adventures? I recall there used to be an imgur gallery of it.

>>49761870
Its all up on archives of nethys now

Is there a way to get Int to my will save instead of Wis? (3p suggestions allowed but I will have to discuss with my DM anything not made by DSP to be allowed at the table)

What's the stealth check required to have sex with someone without them noticing?

>>49762021
Shut up.

>>49762018
Could always just homebrew a feat/trait/alternate race feature.

>>49762021
Depends, roll vaginal radius according to race and experience. If it exceeds penis width, take a +10 circumstance bonus, which stacks with your circumsision bonus. Next, kill yourself yourself using the nearest sharp object, leave, and do not come back next session.

>>49762021
That would be a combination of Stealth beating their Perception (probably whilst invisible/hide in plain sight) and Escape Artist 80.

>>49762074
>>49762120

Or you could just be a god and do it that way.

>>49762021
Since a high enough escape artist should let you hide ENTIRELY inside someone's anus, I'm pretty sure a DC 5 five lower should let you hide inside the vagina, where you can just jack off into the cervix or something.

All you need is a high enough stealth check that they don't notice you on touch. so, what, 10, 20 higher than their perception?

>>49762128
You mean transform into an angry duck and rape the woman or something?

>>49762021
You have entered a Wizards Only establishment
Leave your skill checks at the fucking door please

Anyone interested in joining a campaign for Wednesdays evenings (9 PM EST) featuring Celtic mythology, ancient tribal disputes and an exceptionally comfy group of players?

Warning, it's voice.

>>49762229
>These aren't the droids you're looking for
>These aren't the droids we're looking for
>Alright you and the other girl start by doing oral, and then we all fuck like nasty pigs
>Nasty pigs, got it.

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>>49762300
I have no voice and I must scream.

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>>49762300

Just how comfy are we talking?

>>49762331

Adorkable husband and wife team running adventures for a group of friends comfy.

Been playing with them for a year so I can vouch they aren't weird.

>>49762018

Investigator class ability Unfailing Logic

Wizard > Spirit Link > the level 20 manifestation has you gain into to saves

Those are the only two I can think of. Not really useful as one is only for illusions and the other doesnt kick in until level 20.

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>>49762320
That's nothing, in MY group there's a guy with many voices and he must scream.

>>49762300

How long do your sessions last?

>>49762411
Ooh, microphone echo, awful.

>>49762300
I'd be interested if it's Roll20, but I don't know if I'm the right sort of player for this.

>>49762411
Those are called GMs.

>>49762417
>How long do your sessions last?

They typically run from 9 to 11:30, give or take ten minutes.

>>49762428

The call is over Skype, but the game's on Roll20.

>>49762457
Allowed race/class details? This I'd like to know before making any such decisions.

>>49762457
>9 to 11:30
Which time zone is this?

>>49762300
What's the opinion on 3pp?

>>49762457

Sounds good. I would be interested in hearing more if you have a throwaway email or some such.

>>49762480
>>49762484

>Starting Level: 3rd level.
>Starting Wealth: 3,000 gold (Any items must be cleared by the DM)
>Point Buy: 25 points
>Hit Points: Full at first level, roll for the rest. Re-roll 1’s and 2’s.
>Permitted Races: Changeling, Elf, Gathlain, Gnome, Goblin, Half-elf, Half-orc, Hobgoblin, Human, and Skinwalker.
>Permitted Classes: Barbarian, Bard, Bloodrager, Druid, Fighter, Hunter, Oracle, Ranger, Rogue, Skald, Shaman, Slayer, Sorcerer, Witch.
>Alignment: All except any evil.
>Traits: 2 traits. They must fit the character’s story and not be from the same category.

>>49762483

Eastern Standard

Dropping random gun thoughts for Navaros in this thread riiight about now.

Deal + Dex on every shot, take longer to reload if you are not proficient, touch ac in first 5 increments. Scatter weapons only deal + dex to one target in their cone.

Derringers: Same range as revolvers, swift action reload (cause they're fiddly and small), capacity of two, slightly lower damage, +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand skill checks made to conceal.

Revolvers: pretty much the same as Paizo has them

Rifles: Now with lever kung-fu action! 15 round capacity and swift action reloads

Shotguns: Similar to their Rifle cousins, lever action 7 round capacity, I like the Scatter Rules. Swift action reload.

Heavy Rifle: I'm going a bit ahead in time here to justify these but bolt-action rifle, smaller 10 round capacity, higher damage and range but have to have +3 str bonus to fire standing as a full attack, can only be fired while prone otherwise, swift action reload

Not sure about this. Maybe want to make it 6-round capacity and make it a revolver rifle?

Gatling Gun: Ok. These took a lot of thinking. I'm thinking two firing modes

Focused, in which it deals 4d6 to one target + dex

and spray, uses scatter rules and deals like.. 2d6? Or is that too much, to everything in like a 60 ft cone

Has to be mounted on something or the holder has to have 20 str

Like a 100-200 round capacity? But the user uses 5/10 rounds every time they shoot

Move action to reload?

Any other Firearm ideas? for old west era?

>>49762516
What does the party look like already, race/class-wise? This looks really interesting to me.

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>>49762411
reminder that magic sucks

>>49760526
Current campaign, actually. Ultra-vain, catty and deeply resentful of any woman with Charisma close to hers. On the plus side, she's the only one in the group that can survive for more than a session or two because deep down she knows how physically weak she is and she keeps her distance from things that could eat/disintegrate her outright, while the rest of the party punches way above their weight and gets their asses kicked. One of the other players has gone through four or five characters, while I've survived since the beginning and I know what's going on.

>>49762535
>What does the party look like already, race/class-wise?

>Oracle trapped in perpetual child form, support focused
>Packmaster Huntress with two wolves fluffed as Irish Wolfhounds
>Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) or Fighter (Viking) with a heavy gladiatorial focus, fluff is the Huntress and he are champions of rival tribes who regularly do battle to settle petty tribal disputes, and have turned it into an extravagant spectacle of called attacks and lavish flourishes

>>49762517

I liked Thunderscapes gun rules. And this looks similar. I do not think they had a Gatling gun though.

>>49762567

Oh, and they're all Human.

>>49760532
There was some rule for it from Inner Sea Intrigue I think. Just cosplay as someone else for an entire level and you get the dual identity feature on any class.

>>49762570
The gatling gun is the part i'm worried most about, i feel like the scatter might be too strong.

But i'm mentally trying to balance it against spells, and 2d6 5 times doesn't even keep pace with a wiz throwing cone of cold so i think its ok.

>>49762567
Does it seem like a Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctor would be a good addition?

>>49762594

The only reference I have seen for a gat is the machine god AP killer robots and I think they do 8d6 at CR 16.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/robot/robot-annhiliator

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>>49762628

Nigga we got a clan (the one the Huntress is from) that practices ceremonial scarification.

>>49762631
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/robot/robot-annhiliator
yeah it also sprays a 120 foot cone with it at full damage but that would be insanely broken

Yeah i think 2d6 in a 60ft cone +dex to one primary target is fine for this

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>>49762649
That is fantastic. How would one go about contacting the DM?

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Anybunny know of any good modules for a lvl 11 party? If it matters, we got an archer, alchemist, pally, ranger, spellslinger, and conjuration wizard. They blow through combat with ease, but we do tend to dwell.

>>49762128
Explorer of Crevasses
>Class: Investigator (Cipher) 10
>Race: Wayang (Dissolution's Child)
>Traits: Vagabond Child (Escape Artist), Bandit (Stealth)
>Feats: Skill Focus (Escape Artist), Skill Focus (Stealth), Stealthy, Go Unnoticed, Dampen Presence

Grab the usual magic gear and your Stealth using Dissolution's child will be the 40s? Or you can pump Int and rely on the Cipher's main class ability. You should have enough access to gear and spells that you can easily net +60 to escape artist prior to using inspiration which will be adding a d8 at no inspiration cost.

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>>49762667
>How would one go about contacting the DM?

Through Skype, but he sleepy right now. I'll tell him about a prospective half-orc scarred witch doctor, he'll ask for credentials, and I'll just smile and say it's a dork I know.

>>49762755
How will I know how/when to contact him? I'm not on /pfg/ often enough to monitor too closely

>>49762776

What's your Roll20 name? I'll PM you his info, you can share some casual messages, and we can go from there.

Sorry if I'm being turbo-paranoid about all this, first time recruiting straight from /pfg/ for a voiced group game.

>>49762807
https://app.roll20.net/users/1113819/eric-l
Hopefully this works. I don't have a huge amount of experience with roll20's pm formatting

>>49762894

I don't get it!

>Catfolk
>Unchained Rogue
>catfolk pounce feat chain
>scout archetype

This seems like a good idea.

>>49762921

http://read.gov/aesop/005.html

>>49762921

One of aesop's fables. A fox wants grapes, but he can't get them, so he walks away muttering about how shitty those grapes probably were anyway.

>>49762940
That's because it is a good idea

>>49762921
All you need to know is that apples are master race and those grapes taste like shit anyways.

>>49762940
>thing you need to do your chosen niche *at all*
>cannot come online until like 14th level
unsurprising but still fucking sad Paizo
Not recommended

>>49762946
>>49762949

So the anon is salty he didn't get into the group that just recruited?

He didn't even post a character concept.

>>49762968

Cotton candy grapes > Purple grapes > Red grapes > Green grapes

>>49762987
I can't tell if he is actually salty, because that would make the fable illustration he posted really ironic.

>>49762977
Considering you want to grab the claw enhancements that make them count as light weapons (for iteratives) and the TWF chain (because you're a rogue), you can function pretty well prior to becoming a whirling pinball of death.

>>49762987
>>49763009

I think it was a cunningly placed preemptive allusion to the fable for anyone who might come across the conversation or waited too long to jump in.

>>49763027
>>49763009
>>49762987

>>49762503

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Anybody still have a group I can join? GMT +8 here.

I'm an optimizer, and I like to tie my optimizations with my roleplaying.

I tend to roll skillmonkeys and gishes with diverse utilities. My favorite classes are investigator, magus, soulknife and inquisitors.

I can also DM, but I don't have the motivation to run a campaign, but can throw a decent one-shot if the current DM can't make it.

I also studied a lot on geography, economics and history (asian and european)

I'm lonely & desperate

>>49763254
>I'm lonely & desperate
>posting on /pfg/

You don't need to be redundant, anon.

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>>49763279
Why you gotta say it like that.
Let us dream for a while, before going back into the abyss

>>49763307
Sometimes I'm loved, and appreciated...

then I wake up.

>>49763254
i would but my game is starting too soon and i already let my group be gestalt 32pb and i'm reluctant to say SUP GUYS THATS ALL DIFFERENT NOW

> Want to play a 3pp game.
> Local DM hates PF with a passion.
> Online games either have finished touhoufag wall of text tuer applications by the tine i catch wind of them, or in the other side of the globe.

Life is pain.

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>>49763389
That's too fucking real man.
It'll be okay someday, right?

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>group broke up and half of them migrated to 5e
>'I'm tired of PF, its too broken'

5e is babby's new D&D. Good luck waiting for new content in about a year, bitches.

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>>49763574
>don't want broken content
>but still want content
Where do we go /pfg/?

>>49763594
We're all likely migrating to 5e once there's enough content in there to interest us.

I'm not moving until they bring back psionics, the book of weeaboo fightan magic and the factotum.

I call bullshit that the warlock somehow made it in, despite not being a core class.

>>49760497
How would /pfg/ like an initiator archetype for the Kineticist ? The gist i have made is
> Access to Tempest Gale, Solar Wind, and elenental flux. Kinetic Blast and variations ( Energy blast, kinetic blade and fist) always are discipline weapons for these 3.
>Gain Variable Wind, but only for the primary + expanded elements.
> Initiator Modifier is Wisdom. Gain a number of temporary HP each day equal to Initiator modifier x HD.
>Maneuver recovery is: Move action to recover one maneuver that alao counts as gather power. Full round to recover a number of maneuvers equal to Initiator mod AND lose a number of burn, up to your Initiator modifier.
> Loses Internal Buffer and the elemental defense talent.

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>>49763676
>I'm not moving until they bring back psionics, the book of weeaboo fightan magic and the factotum.

Quick, someone tell DSP to start a new 3pp patreon for 5e!

>>49763676
5e player here. Warlock made it in because they wanted to bring back some of the good design decisions of 4e, but stealthily, so 3.5 grognards didn't flip a shit again. See also: battlemaster fighter.

They're also working on a new class called the Mystic. They're calling it psionic but it really doesn't feel anything like 3.5 psionics.

5e would be so much better than PF if it just had more material. At least the adventures are pretty good.

>>49763574
>My group broke up and half of us migrated to PF
>'I want more creative freedom, more character options, a wider, more expansive world to explore with a greater breadth of readily available content'

This is my group anyway. It's a back and forth.

>>49763683
There's already two initiating kineticists, one homebrew and one by DSP.

>>49762807
I don't blame you for being paranoid about recruiting from /pfg/ considering what happened with the /pfg/ only game with the furries.

I promise most people here aren't like them though

>>49763693
Paizo's humble beginnings used to be 3pp content creators for 3x before they went legit with Pathfinder.

>>49763698
I don't really care for most of the psionic classes.

I just wish they bring back the soulknife. That class has been my bro since 3x

>>49763703
Oh there is ? Didnt see it in POW or POW: E. Which book is it in ?

>>49763749
Try blade-pact warlock. It's pretty bad, but so was the soulknife. It's also my favorite 5e class, bar none.

>>49763698
>they wanted to bring back some of the good design decisions of 4e

The only good design I remember from 4e was their saves, and it was handled better in 4e compared to 5e's stupid advantage/proficient system bullshit.

Which idiot thought it would be a good idea to make Saves from ALL your stats instead of 3 key saves?

>>49763767
>5e bladelock
>good

Its not bad. But the warlock wasn't certainly designed with melee combat in mind, especially since Tomelock and Chainlock are mechanically superior and is less MAD.

>>49763770
>it was handled better in 4e

THIS!
Str and Con to Fortitude
Dex and Int to Reflex
Wis and Cha to Will

that was the best method to ensure every class has a more balanced set of saves.

My experience with 5e was that it was too low power feeling compared to PF. Is it always like that?

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It's almost that time of the night /pfg/, tell me how your homebrew is coming.
I just wrote a 4 page design document outlining the work I have ahead of me and good gods why did I bite this much off.

>>49763770
I liked the idea of encounter based powers. But then I also liked Tome of Battle.

>>49763791
It can work with Armor of Agathys and some of your defensive buffs. Blink is pretty good if you're a Feylock.

>>49763808
Agreed. 5e stepped back there - Int saves are fucking useless.

>>49763814
It is a lot lower powered, especially in the early game. And their philosophy of capped stats and bounded accuracy means that a huge horde of orcs is a credible threat at level 20.

>>49763833
Well i've got the description of races/classes in the setting down and I think the new gun rules are looking good so now I just need to Actually write some about the setting and make the gods

>>49763814
Yep. they scaled it to Tolkien levels of fantasy level.

The strongest legendary swords, Orcrist and Glamdring are bane Orc and bane Goblin.

A cloak of flight is considered epic level loot.

The 5e wizard's 9th level strongest spells gets laughed at by the PF wizard because its a 7th level spell in his spellbook and he doesn't have to do fucking concentration to maintain the spell.

>>49763814
5e was intentionally depowered

I like 5e, but it and pathfinder are very different games at this point. 5e is probably better balanced and a better entry, but something about PF keeps bringing me back.

Maybe I just enjoy insane power levels and BEING SHAMED FOR BEING A MARTIAL

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>>49763833
I had a productive discussion with /pfg/ and GitP several nights ago to fix my homebrew

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xQMlB45-UFEWCB2ffqoBUMhR-t4afSXLk29fgTJNVyw/edit?usp=sharing

>>49763837
>>49763851
>>49763865
That's a shame; I really like the high power level feel of PF with things like PoW and such. Is there any system that isn't built on retarded rules and design that actually has content while being high powered?

>>49763905
D&D 3.5 is less retarded in design but more retarded in rules than PF. It's worth harvesting all the stuff from it.

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I fucking swear, the only reason 5e martials don't feel as useless as before is because the 5e casters have the most piss-poor spell list ever.
Conjuration and Necromancy are nerfed to fuck.
Evocation is decent, but lol blaster casters are an embarrassment ever since 3x
Transmutation requires concentration and you can't apply more than one buff at all times.
Abjuration is fine, but only situationally useful
Nobody fucking cares about illusion and enchantment

>>49763837
>It can work with Armor of Agathys and some of your defensive buffs.
>Rolling a fiendlock
>kek more evocation spells for the class with an at-will blasting power
>Not rolling an ElderGodChainlock

>>49763937
Armor of Agathys is a universal spell, dude. I play a fey bladelock, and quite enjoy stacking it with blink to become invincible 50% of the time and a very poor choice of target the rest of the time.

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>>49763937
>Evocation is decent, but lol blaster casters are an embarrassment ever since 3x

What if WotC wanted players to actually play wizards as intended and not some 'save-or-suck' dispenser in the metagame?

>>49763936
Having the combined trap options of both systems sounds like a fucking nightmare to completely remove though

>>49763980
>What if WotC wanted players to actually play wizards as intended and not some 'save-or-suck' dispenser in the metagame?
Then they should've built them so they were competent as intended.

>>49763974
If your DM handholds you by letting you get away with that shit, then good for you, but there are a lot of things in the bestiary that ignore illusions and enchantments or have pretty good saves against them (like the goddamn Elves, or slimes)

>>49764009
>illusion
Read the book. Blink is a 50% chance to fuck off to the ethereal plane at the end of each of your turns. It's not a miss chance or something, it's immunity to everything that doesn't specifically state it effects ethereal creatures - even force effects don't do that anymore, to my knowledge.

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>>49763851
>A cloak of flight is considered epic level loot.

Our DM bans wondrous items with flight or teleportation. He says its too plot derailing and sequence breaking.

>>49763833
Spent a couple hours making an in-depth, complex and detailed settlement management settlement.

Then I realized how autistic and unwieldy it would be. Better suited for a computer game.

Now I'm moving towards a system that only cares about the size and growth of a settlement, with the players choosing how to spend and invest taxes and resources.

>>49764078
You know there's already rules for that, right?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/kingdom-building

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>>49764059
Do they also ban spells that give those effects or do they just like shitting on noncasters?

Which would be in theme for pf at least.

>>49764203
Yep. my DM likes to do a 'narrative storytelling' style, so things like flight or teleportation really fucks up his 'plot'.

I think he really needs to get off his ass and finish his damn novel.

>>49763872
>uses Essence
>but isn't not-Incarnum Akashic Magic from DSP (that also uses Essence)
Recipe for confusion there. Quantifiable reservoir of essence doesn't make it clear what things count, since "essence" isn't really a defined term in this case. It looks like it's basically any class ability that has a pool of resource points?

Link is neat, it's basically a non-Psionic take on Collective. Really the whole class seems to be Vitalist-lite.

Can you use a specific Quintessence more than once on the same ability use? It doesn't say you can't, but I'm guessing the intent is not (considering the later Quintessence abilities). Some could benefit from rules from multiple use though, like spending a second Essence on Chaining Siphon to let other Quintessence effects work on the first chain.

Combat Siphoning looks like it could be used with Improved/Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, as those don't technically grant iterative attacks with the second weapon, they just happen to follow the same pattern.

>>49764185
>recommending the kingdom building system to someone

Anon don't be that guy

>>49757510

>have gun, will travel
How about a non-combat deed?

>>49764078
The game of thrones rpg has some rules for this.

>>49764235
>Recipe for confusion there. Quantifiable reservoir of essence doesn't make it clear what things count, since "essence" isn't really a defined term in this case. It looks like it's basically any class ability that has a pool of resource points?
I will consider renaming it. But Essence being a catch-all term was certainly what I was going for. Previously, the class was named the Sensei and his pool was called Reiki. (rei·ki - a healing technique based on the principle that the therapist can channel energy into the patient by means of touch, to activate the natural healing processes of the patient's body and restore physical and emotional well-being.)

>Link is neat, it's basically a non-Psionic take on Collective. Really the whole class seems to be Vitalist-lite.
Thanks - this is based on the Warlock, but with a few things borrowed from Vitalist and Tactician.

>Can you use a specific Quintessence more than once on the same ability use? It doesn't say you can't, but I'm guessing the intent is not (considering the later Quintessence abilities). Some could benefit from rules from multiple use though, like spending a second Essence on Chaining Siphon to let other Quintessence effects work on the first chain.
No, I made it clear with Chain Siphoning that it only affects the first target. I was warned before that disabling several units with Chain Siphon skews/deviates the Empyreus' role.

>Combat Siphoning looks like it could be used with Improved/Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, as those don't technically grant iterative attacks with the second weapon, they just happen to follow the same pattern.
Yes, you can take the ITWF and GTWF, but Siphon strictly works once per round.

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Well here we go. I have finished the Unchained Gunslinger.

>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LiAlaS7xn234S5O25_zE8xmvjlBsufleBah7msV1Ys4/edit?usp=sharing

I lowered the total number of contraptions and added enough that have nothing to do with supernatural mechanism that you are able to have purely in gunslinger theme deeds and contraptions.

With this one finished likely I will be beginning play testing soon, within the next week, as I write up the UC Cavalier and Gunslinger archetypes.

>>49764431
The Unchained Gunslinger is a class that mechanically aims to be a martial debuffer, with the ability to use trick shots and other deeds to inflict status conditions at a distance. As well they are now able to perform many utility actions both in and out of combat through the use of contraptions, which often have the ability to replicate spells and other such effects. As well the overall competence of the gunslinger has been increased by making their firearm training actually reduce misfire values, rather than simply adding damage.

>>49764466
>>49764466
The archetypes for the UC Gunslinger and Cavalier (planned at the moment) are as follows:

Gunslinger:
>Bootleg Alchemist
>Replaces half of the deeds in favor of 4 level alchemist extract casting (I'm giving them their own list).
>Gives up several bonus feats for a bathtub mutagen and a few discoveries (with a few special UC gunslinger discoveries).

>Updated Mysterious Stranger
>Gains Dual Identiy, one the gunslinger and one the mysterious stranger
>Much more gun heavy that the base class, give up all contraptions for "A Cloak of Many Colors" that adds patches as the gunslinger levels up for buffs
>Gets some cowboy theme'd stuff replacing deeds so they have a static by level set of abilities.

>Mechanist
>Gives up some deeds to get Craft Construct & a discounted mechanical spider buddy (a slightly beefed up familiar)
>Gets a second mechanical companion that is similar to a eidolon in that he has "upgrade points"


UC Cavalier:
>Hound Master
>Gets rid of mount in favor for several animal companion dogs and loses access to banners in favor of a series of level scaling whistles.

>Wyvern Rider
>Does not get the large list of mount choices and is instead saddled with a wyvern mount. It replaces several oaths with dragon specific stuff. There is a system for look sharing between you and your wyvern because they're greedy gits. Also gets several kobold servants.

>Knight of the Patchwork Banner
>Gives up a bunch of oaths to instead get a banner that can fly multiple buffs simultaneously.

>>49764431
sup, DH, just dropping some comments on your doc again.
I'm the Empyreus homebrewer by the way.

I dont fucking understand kineticists. Can someone give me a more or less full rundown on them?

I've skimmed through their abilities, and I kind of want to incorporate them as a ninjutsu/ninpo "magic" class - (less naruto, and more final fantasy mantra mudra thing) but I'm seriously just not fucking getting them.

>>49764841
They can be mediocre ALL DAY at UNBEARABLE COST.

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>>49764841
>I dont fucking understand kineticists. Can someone give me a more or less full rundown on them?

They're based off 3e warlocks.
except its absolutely shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

>I kind of want to incorporate them as a ninjutsu/ninpo "magic" class - (less naruto, and more final fantasy mantra mudra thing)
Stalker with Elemental Flux

>>49764841
They looked at a Tier 4 D&D 3.5 class, decided it was WAY TOO POWERFUL, and nerfed the everloving shit out of it.

>>49765018
But anon

AT WILL
T

W
I
L
L

ALL DAY
L
L

D
A
Y

>>49764904
but hoooooowwwwwww.

I mean, what's the typical kineticist shtick? Shooting balls of fire?

>>49763833
My homebrew is coming along well. New races are pretty much finalized, small documents for neighboring countries are mostly done. Just need to finalize the setting lore document and then figure out what I need to finalize it.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_iZ-pr8yolRaUg1NEVHRmVwNUE

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>>49763833
I don't even know what I want to homebrew. New spells? New races? New settings?

>>49763833
The RotRL campaign where I got to play my homebrew race crashed and burned about four sessions in. I am sad.

2am PST is basically peak homebrewer time so let's see today's haul.
>>49763846
Get your ass in gear.
>>49763872
It's coming along!
>>49764078
I use my own programmed loot generators for games, I don't see any reason we can't have computer-augmented tabletops.
>>49765117
Organization, aesthetic formatting, and bulk self-relevant content. Nice. This is the kind of package I want to make.
>>49765130
If you don't have an idea, consider consuming some other material in the fantasy genre or in a related genre, take thing you think is really cool about it, and either gain inspiration from that to make something else, or think about how that cool thing could work in the game.
>>49765149
Sorry to hear that.

>>49765186
>Sorry to hear that.

It's okay, I wasn't really happy with the class that I had chosen. Wilders have way too fucking few options, even if they have neat flavor.

The signs were there as early as the second session too - people had IRL commitments which were fucking them, and I knew the Gm loves to procrastinate (which left him unprepared for sessions).

>>49765117
>>49765186

Making it super organized was my goal from the start. Now I just need to find players who actually care enough to go through it all!

I want to release all my DM notes as a separate package at some point, but I want to run a game with it all to make sure nothing I added breaks the game horribly.

I still can't decide if I want it to be a total sandbox with background plot that the players can get involved with, or a more plot focused game with light sandbox.

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>>49763833
My revision of the Holy Flame Paladin is now complete, and I'm very happy with how it's turned out. I feel like it's much... neater now.

For those unaware, the Holy Flame is an at-will blasting archetype drawing from the Blaster Armorist, and got likened to a kind of holy Warlock, which I can only take as a good thing!

On a related note, I still don't have as many Sparks as I'd like, and am open to suggestions!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WutbabjDwKjG6BhPIybYCKTARa5y_JTDQ7maJU5mmEQ/edit?usp=sharing

>tfw GM adds 10/10 waifu as an NPC in the enemy faction: she's a young noble girl who has a grudge against the party but it's because they murderhobo'd her evil older brother who she loved
>I talk loads OOC about how adorable she is (this is normal for the group, another player got fixated on an earlier NPC and successfully seduced her and they're a canon couple now)
>GM is completely blindsided because while he chose a cute picture for her, he didn't intend for her personality to come across as cute at all
>Is hinting OOC that there are unrevealed aspects of her character that may ruin her image

Why ;_;
I'm playing a female PC too and I just wanted to befriend her

>>49765249
I barely know how Spherecasters work but this looks really cool so I am going to bookmark it for later

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>>49765280
>Looks really cool

Well there's my night made. Thanks!

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>>49765276
>Is hinting OOC that there are unrevealed aspects of her character that may ruin her image
outside of being already married and having kids, nothing is stopping you from holding her hands and never letting go

pic related.

>>49765317
She could secretly have the true form of an evil squid being like her older brother did due to a demon pact.

That would be a bit of a downer.

>>49765342
>That would be a bit of a downer.
Why? He gets to fuck a squid, and maybe kill that demon and earn her eternal gratitude later.

>>49765342
More tentacles to hold.

Question, master climber from champion gives you climb speed 30, but what if your speed is high go enough to climb faster than that? You gain nothing?

>>49765464
Creatures with climb speed get +8 to climb checks, and generally don't even have to make them.

I wasn't prepared.
>>49765227
>Special Thanks
>I would like to thank the following people for their help with this project:

>>49765464
Your land speed doesn't affect your climb speed unless it says it does.

If you get 30ft climb speed, you get 30ft, regardless of other movement speeds.

>>49765508
But in the climb skill description it says that when I climb I move at 1/4 my land speed... So if I have more than 120 ft speed (or if I have more than 60 and I use accelerate climb) I'm climbing faster than with climb speed 30

Can I use the +8 if I'm not using the 30ft climb speed?

>>49765540
>>49765464
If you have a natural climb speed, you can take 10 even when threatened and you get a +8. (in short you don't *usually* have to make climbing checks, though having a climb speed doesnt necessarily make you auto-succeed)

Normally the climb speed will be better than your land speed would allow you to climb at. If your speed is absurd you can use the accelerated climb feature sure, but you'd be adding a -5 penalty to the check.

Any ways a person can disguise a dragon as a humanoid for long periods of time, at level 6 or lower?

>>49763905
Legend d20. It has a problem with being fucking annoying to prepare a campaign for because you need to generate monsters the same way you do PCs because there are no stock monsters, though.

>>49765812
How about that dragon uses his change shape himself?

What happens to an object or a building that is reduced to zero hp with one spell? Does it disintegrate? Crumble into dust? Simply collapse, damaging creatures inside?

>>49766003
>>49765812

Side note that should've been added in the first post: Plot reasons have this dragon without his Shapechange or his spell-like abilities.

I want to marry Urgathoa!

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>>49766063
>First drow, then this
Every day we stray further from Erastil's light.

>>49766195
Hey, at least its not Kitsune or Shota Blinklings or Augunas crap anymore

>>49766215
At least those have flesh, anon. Can you say the same about Urgathoa?

>>49766221
her top half maybe
And besides, people have been talking about their need to get boned on this sight for year now anyway. This phenomena is hardly /pfg/ fault of degeneracy

>>49766221

I mean, there are certain times of the day when she is more fleshy then others.

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>>49766221
>implying she needs an entire set of flesh to be a qt p2t

>>49765812
>>49766058
Disguising as a different race is a flat -2 penalty by rules. It's actually easy to do... unless the dragon isn't medium size, which adds a -10 for different size.

But!
Have the dragon take a level in Vigilante, and have one of their identities be a human.
At level 1, it gets a +20 disguise bonus to appear as its current identity when in vigilante or social mode.
This easily wipes out the -12 for different race/size and gives a +8 base you can build on with skill ranks and charisma mod.

>>49765062

Kineticists shoot energy that varies depending on the element they specialized in. Some kineticists shoot balls of Fire, others launch big rocks at their foes, others punch holes in steel with balls of hypercompressed air and others even rip apart their foes with micro-gravity and clouds of metal shards.

>>49766215
i want to marry a moo!

>When Ninja is better at unarmed damage than the monk
Top lel

>>49765062
All the way kineticist is written wants you to believe it's a high power energy blaster, but it can barely do that without killing itself.
It's actually battlefield control via focusing on good blast infusions, and then a bit of all day utility which varies wildly depending on your specific element. (Hint: Don't pick fire or void)

>>49766902

Speaking of moos, I'm probably going to try my luck in the Drawthread to get the Minos some proper art.

>>49766952
>>49766796

That's the greatest tragedy of the Kineticist, isn't it? The class sounds COOL. Launching rays of localized hyper-gravity is COOL. But the mechanics? Ehhhhhh.

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>>49766962
That'd be pretty cool but lets be real proper art of them already exists.

>>49767014

That is so lewd. Oh gosh.

>>49767014

Proper art that doesn't come from porn games!

Personally they remind me more of the holstaurus from Breeding Season.

>>49766952
>>49766796
I've heard that one of the ways to "fix" kineticists is to use stamina for burn instead of temp damage.

I think it was suggested here in fact.

>>49767024
I have other MOO's, but they're mostly lewds, and in a giant unsorted folder.

>>49767024
How is it lewd!

1. Fur respectfully covers private parts

2. Top is perfect for hot climates, and shows off the impressive musculature

3. Chains that act as weapon cords and server as a visual reminder of slavery

4. Well tended horns show that she is not a total savage

5. Friendly smile informs you it will be a nice rape

>>49767041

Imgur?

>>49767062
Cant exactly go through my giant lewds folder right now.

>>49767033

Shame about that game going belly-up, they were going to work on the holstaurus animations next.

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a hammer moo is fine too

>>49767034
There are a ton of fixes the kineticist 'needs', and many anons have tried.

Problems involve:
>Not good at its advertised role
>Still stuck doing mediocre damage even when optimized, and a very hard cap on its damage output
>Burn is too hefty a cost, CON is your main good score and you don't even get the HP benefit
>Disparity between how good the options for each element are
>>In fact a bunch of options are straight up wastes of the space they take up
>Even more gimped damage on energy blasts, not enough accuracy on physical blasts (Elemental Overflow is a minor patch, not a fix)
>Burn limit means it's not actually all day
>No archetypes that don't make the class even worse
>What the fuck is internal buffer

>>49767148
Jesus.

I just wanted to have some hand sign NIN NIN explosions with varying elemental flavors.

>>49762300
I am initially interested, but need more info.

slightly OT question for those of you who use a Tablet
what app do you use for pdf manuals?

>>49762516
Email contact info to my throwaway email at [email protected], I think I'd like to join.

>>49762300
Sadly Weds are a no-go day for me, GL!

Is there anything that could be cuter than a minos bard?

>>49767681
My homebrew half-slime waifu. Not slimy, but squishy.

Is best for cuddling.

>>49767702
How does half slime work?
Are they a slime with human organs and bones inside?
Are they a slime with a layer of human skin, like a water doll?

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>>49767727
It doesn't work, it's just a sad attempt of someone trying to normalize their fetish so they feel less ashamed about it.

>>49767702
Anon, stand in your truth. Chase your bliss. Don't let society tell you that liking a slimegirl is wrong.

>>49767727
Imagine a flesh to slime spell that was partially resisted. Bones turn to cartilege, flesh becomes "rubbery" and malleable. The only "bones" they have left are teeth.

Shape is retained primarily through muscle function. They're +2 dex, +2 con (generally fairly robust and hard to wound surprisingly) -2 int (squishy brains)

I gave them "limited compression", which was my take on a 'nerfed' compression universal basic rule (1/4 size no squeeze, 1/8th squeezing) - they can fit into spaces half their size without squeezing, or 1/4 of their size when squeezing. I also gave them a +8 bonus on escape artist checks.

They were basically purpose bred to look like people, but also be able to squeeze up a drain pipe. It can be uncomfortable (or even painful) for them to contort like this, but meh.

>>49767869
>Bones turn to cartilege, flesh becomes "rubbery" and malleable. The only "bones" they have left are teeth
>all in a slime casing
That sounds fucking horrifying. It sounds like the monster from the old The Thing movie near the end.

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>looking through the bestiaries that I downloaded from the trove
How the hell does Paizo come up with their monster names? I understand some of them are from mythology or folklore or whatever, but "hundun"? "Glaistig"? "Ramidreju"? Are they just picking syllables at random or something?

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>>49767869
>basically looks like a dead and half-disolved adventurer inside a human-shaped gelatinous cube

>>49767929
>Glaistig
Literally first result in google.

>>49767929
That's a D&D thing.

>>49767905
>That sounds fucking horrifying.

The first generations may have been, because immoral wizards. It's not like they're see-through or anything, they functionally look almost exactly like people, except for slightly unusual hair colors (and slightly thinner hair, I'm not good at describing it, I guess it would maybe look like it's 'wet' most of the time?) and almost animu eyes (not that big, but slightly larger than normal and "watery").

Watching one would probably be a bit strange though, cause if you pay careful attention you notice that they don't breath very often (that 'rubbery' bit extends to almost all their organs, they can expand or squish a bit, so most of them breath slowly) and they bend in manners that people *really shouldn't*. I guess if one were to lay down and not breath / retain concious muscle control they might "flatten out" a bit, but they wouldn't be a puddle of goo. Sometimes they don't like to chew food either and just swallow things like apples or pears whole.

They're not aberrations or anything, their abilities are extraordinary.

They end up a bit lighter than regular humanfolk too.

The short lifespan of the Minos really got me thinking about the mindset it would cause in them

Like, they know they live short lives compared to others, they can only expect to be around for a very short time.

I think it'd lead to a race that is very much about living life to the fullest, if you only have 30 some years to live you better live all of it up.

There's never time to waste doing nothing you know.

Its an interesting counterpart in the setting where most races have human length lives or much longer.

A minos would also probably be a bit more immature, after only 15 years they're at a halfway point in their life, thats rough.

>>49768050

That's why they have a -2 to intelligence.

>>49768050
Finally found the minos pictures because I thought I had one or two SFW ones. Yeah, No. They're all a lot lewder than I thought.

sorry.

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>>49767929

I'll humor you.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundun
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaistig
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramidreju

>>49762807
Hey I'm interested in joining too!
https://app.roll20.net/users/451793/hambonio

>>49768164

Imgur them!!

>>49767929
>>49767980
>>49767985
>>49768204
Alright, fine, I get it. It's still a kitchen sink, but whatever.

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Giant in the playground, why...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503063-Need-advice-on-dealing-with-a-problem-player

Am I reading wrong or invisible blade gives you nothing that vanishing trick doesn't already give you?

I'm building a time witch, what kind of creature would be his patron? I'm thinking a time elemental, but that's kind of boring.

>>49768503

Uhh, what part of that thread is bad? The story is fake, and even if it wasn't the player WAS a problem; knights married young but they didn't consummate until they were older.

>>49768625
Not the story, just the disgusting defense of pedophilia in the game while complaining about "safespaces". Seriously, if not wanting pedophilia in your game is asking to be in a safespace then I want to eternally be in a safespace.

>>49768654
safespace is a buzzword anyways

Hey /pfg/!

I have a question regarding Craft Wonderous Item.

Can you fulfill the spell requirement of the Craft Wonderous Item by using a scroll of the correct spell?

Thanks a bunch!

>>49768720
Yes, but you'd require a scroll every day you're crafting it. You can skip casting the spell everyday by raising the DC by 5.

>>49768654

This is what happens when criticizing someone is seen as taboo, even if the criticism is "fucking kids isn't okay, got it?"

Every opinion is valid, but incompatible opinions are not worth discussing, but sequestering into the proper group. Nobody is wrong, everyone is right.

>>49768625
>knights married young but they didn't consummate until they were older.

Nobility had marriages *arranged* young (sometimes) and occasionally they were consummated with one partner being 13 - 15 or so.

But they didn't just randomly hit on 12 year old orphans... rape them maybe, turn them into whores probably if that was their thing and we were playing to extreme historical accuracy with real bastards as characters - but people generally don't do that.

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We're at the Mror Holds to investigate a sudden demonic outbreak and clean house where we've encountered the BBEG trying to rip open the gate to Shavarath. Will we succeed in stopping the Cataclysm Mage's plans in kick-starting a doomsday scenario? Will the party get splattered? Will anyone live at all? Tonight is our thrilling conclusion of this arc!

>>49768526
I think you're reading mass invisibility instead of greater invisibility. You don't lose invisibility if you attack with invisible blade

>>49769067

And just how many baguettes can one elf eat?

I'll be honest I think the Warrior Spirit AWT should have a list of enhancements it can give, like every other ability similar to it that gives enhancements. I think it should have the largest list, but saying "all" is a dangerous game. It results in generate stuff like using it for training weapons.

Do you think this is a fair assessment?

>>49768050
Real talk. Do the moos have nice butts?

But no, for the actual real talk do you have some sort of bestiary entry that you're getting this stuff from?

>>49761257
>He wants to give up his precious yang energy to a female instead of nourishing himself on her boundless yin

>he doesn't even dao

>>49769125

She looks like she can take the whole thing in one go, maybe even two at the same time if she was in the right mood.

Why do so many idiots think Gunslingers are op?

>>49769481

DUDE
TOUCH AC
LMAO

HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BUILD ENCOUNTERS AROUND THIS MASSIVE, GUARANTEED DAMAGE YOU'RE THROWING AT ME? YOU'RE AS BAD AS THE BARBARIAN OH MY GOD.

>>49769481
Becuase a gun is more powerful than a bow in reality, maybe?

>>49769522
>YOU'RE AS BAD AS THE BARBARIAN OH MY GOD
BUT NOT QUITE AS BAD AS MONK BECAUSE HE HAVE AC AND SAVES TOO

>>49769540
GAWD, DONT EVEN MENTION KINETICISTS
THEYRE BANNED AT MY TABLE

>>49769481
Mainly because they are what amounts to guaranteed damage at range.

They are generally worse than a barbarian because they can full attack at range.

They are worse than a ranger at high levels because they can remove misfire and hit touch AC, which is very strong against many large monsters (who rely on natural armor).

Guaranteed damage is hard to design around to a degree. One can easily build a TWF pistolero at high levels that will, in one round, kill anything up to 4 CR above it unavoidably.

But at high levels that level of rocket tag is expected. Gunslinger however have low defenses (though at high levels they can reroll saves and avoid death, but badly and they don't have that much grit).

>>49769555
>>49769540
>>49769522

Why are DMs so used to dealing with magic and indirect power, but the moment someone swings a sword they start sweating?

I thought the valiant knight wielding a longsword was one of the iconic staples of tabletop, why do people treat it like that's such a rare, unstoppable thing?

>>49769555

WHY THE FUCK IS YOUR PALADIN SO GOOD AT KILLING DEMONS
RETIRE THE CHARACTER SO I CAN MAKE YOU FIGHT THE BOSS AGAIN

>>49769597

WHY RETIRE HIM WHEN YOU CAN JUST MAKE HIM FALL?

DUDE LMAO ITS A CHARACTER ARC, DEAL WITH THE FALL FOR THE NEXT TEN SESSIONS WHILE I ADJUST ENCOUNTERS FOR YOUR UNSTOPPABLE DIVINE POWER.

>>49769580
So can a crit based paladin they can literally deal damage in the hundreds at upper levels

>minmaxboards has Unchained monk as tier6

>>49769645
Yes, the issue is a paladin needs to be near the enemy.

Ranger & Gunslinger (and anyone else range based) who has a high enough to hit to guarantee kills round 1 (they have very high dex scores, so they will be likely going first).

Optimized ranged characters make design strange as they enforce the whole "lots of smaller enemies" and not large single boss fights (even when the boss has multiple initiatives like more powerful rakshasa).

>>49769740
actually no, the Paladin doesn't need to be near the enemy

They can do it with a bow.

>>49769761
Ranged pallies are pretty terrible unless they put every feat they can into making their build viable. Most people suggest going for more smites because more damage, but I'd suggest grabbing the ranged archetype just for the ranged bonus feats you get at very low levels to get the character concept off the ground.

>>49769817
Ranged pallies are arguably one of the highest DPR builds in the game, they easily out DPR a 2her

>>49769740
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin#TOC-Smite-Evil-Su-

>Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.

>In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.

>The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Paladin, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.

Nothing in there says melee. It says within sight. Range paladins are actually rather good at smiting the fuck out of evil.

>>49769817
>Ranged pallies are pretty terrible

Lol nope. Not even fucking close. Divine bond is a great way to either boost a weapon *or* get a mount (that can potentially do shit like fly!)

>>49769887
>Unless
I'm saying there's a huge feat tax to the build that provides limitation, I'm addition to the paladin's regular limitations, like sucking his thumb against non evil enemies when he built for smites. He's not comparable to gunslinger

>>49769928
>Huge feat tax

>Literally has to take feats that improve his archery

>Like Rapid Shot

>And Multishot

Muh ranged feat taxes.

>>49769928
>paladin's regular limitations

Like being a full BAB class with some spellcasting and a shitton of defensive perks?

>like sucking his thumb against non evil enemies when he built for smites.

Except this isn't really "building for smites" it's building for archery - which is still perfectly viable when not smiting the shit out of things.

>>49769957
Defense perks like that heavy armor you are no longer using because you want use a bow? Or the decent hit die you are no longer bolstering with con because Dex requirements make you even more MAD?

>>49770099
>needing heavy armor with that much dex
>needing high con when you engage the enemy at range

>>49770099

Defense perks like immunities, resistance auras, good saves, and Divine Grace, not to mention Lay on Hands.

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Don't hide it from me, /pfg/.

Tell me about [spoilers]ways you've incorporated large vehicles like airships into your campaigns.[/spoiler] Did you have fun?

>>49770099
>wearing heavy armor when you have high dex

???

>>49770099
>heavy armor
Mithral. herp durr.

>Defense perks

More like the CHA to all saves (and importantly 2 decent saves, fort / will), which is far more important than con because you're a fucking archer.

Or the mercies your lay on hands can provide. Or healing spells which are more relevant because you're at range.

Or those immunities to disease, fear, charm, compulsions (and giving allies bonuses to their saves on them)... and inherent damage reduction (granted it's late, but it exists).

>>49770132
Not to mention all that Dex is covering up the one save that isn't good.

>There's someone in this thread that doesn't know that Paladin Archers are the best build for the class and actually way better than Zen or Fighter archer against smiteable foes

>IN THE CURRENT YEAR

>>49769957
The issue is that without smite a paladin has issues keeping up with other ranged characters in terms of damage. So against anything non-evil (or evil entities that can block smite) they do far less damage.

>>49770189

14 Dexterity is fantastic for Warders and Fighters, though.

>>49770262
How do others deal any more damage than the paladin without smite? As long as you have the feats, it doesn't seem like there would be any difference

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>>49769447
Um, just to be sure, we're still talking about bread here, right?

>>49770276
we said high dex.

>>49770262
Not really, they keep up with Fighter and Zen archers ok, and vastly outpace them when they get to smite

Hint, most big enemies are things you get to smite.

>>49770262
>has issues keeping up with other ranged characters in terms of damage.
Because all he is doing is shooting a bow using however many bow shooting feats he has scraped together. Which a ranged class gets at least some of for free, and has class features like touch ac to hit. Even a fighter built for range can use bonus feats to keep ahead of the curve against a ranged paladin not using smites.

>>49770289

Of course. We're discussing the dietary requirements for a female elf to maintain a healthy figure.

>>49770287
A gunslinger for example get dex to damage.

>>49770311
>Not really, they keep up with Fighter and Zen archers ok, and vastly outpace them when they get to smite
Ranged fighters when competently built will outpace a paladin against non-smiteable enemies fairly easily. We can do comparable level 12 builds if you wish.

>Hint, most big enemies are things you get to smite.
Untrue. Dragons are a big enemy you get to smite hard, evil outsiders and undead are. There are still many neutral high level monsters one can fight.

>>49770331
Yes, because ranged combat is a very feat heavy fighting style unfortunately. Also some great feats are locked behind being a fighter or ranger (like point blank master).

>>49770262
>The issue is that without smite a paladin has issues keeping up with other ranged characters in terms of damage.

Divine bond weapon . And no, other classes generally don't do *wildly* more damage than paladins when ranged.

Please, post your weasel words build that's so wildly better than archer paladin (that cant smite)

>>49770214
Mithral breastplate is +6 AC, allows up to +5 dex bonus, and has a -1 armor check penalty and 15% spell failure (not that it matters for paladins). Costs 4200 gold. Tons of decent magical enhancements available to it.

>>49770393
Lets be real, you're usually not fighting neutral enemies in a campaign, you're fighting evil demons, vampires, dragons, or a brutally evil BBEG.

Yes, Fighters out DPR against non-smiteable enemies. Of course they do. But its not like Pally archers are reduced to being worthless plinkers. The same applies to fighting in close combat

But if there's a smiteable enemy, the Paladin becomes the god king. And there's usually a smiteable enemy. Because if you're not including any smiteable enemies just to spite your pally, you're a shit DM.

>>49770416
>Divine bond weapon
Divine weapon bond is replaced by simply owning a weapon.

Ok, lets just compare between paladin and fighter at ranged. We can do it at level 12, 25pb, 1st party material. I'm at work so I'll likely take a while with my build.

>>49770393
>A gunslinger for example get dex to damage.

You've heard of composite longbows right? they're kind of the original "x to damage" ranged weapon.

>>49770372

Have you seen Elsbeth? She really needs to lay off those things, or at least limit her intake to something the average woman her age should be handling.

Don't blame her for that voracious appetite though, hard to break old habits when you start 'em early.

>>49770433
I would describe Elsbeth's figure as pretty healthy.

I've seen Elsbeths that you can't post on a blue board

>>49770428
>Divine weapon bond is replaced by simply owning a weapon.

You know that divine bond *adds* to existing weapon enhancement right?

>The first type of bond allows the paladin to enhance her weapon as a standard action by calling upon the aid of a celestial spirit for 1 minute per paladin level. When called, the spirit causes the weapon to shed light as a torch. At 5th level, this spirit grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5, or they can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: axiomatic, brilliant energy, defending, disruption, flaming, flaming burst, holy, keen, merciful, and speed. Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's cost

>These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses

So when everyone is running around with a +3 weapon, you can shit out a +5 flaming (in addition to whatever else)

I mean, in addition to getting smite wrong, you've somehow managed to get divine bond wrong too.

>>49770431
A composite bow means you are splitting your damage via strength and your to hit via dex. It means your overall efforts are split. Personally in that regard I think you're in for a bad time.

I don't actually think a fighter will do that much more damage, just have a better time of it because he has more feats.

A Gunslinger or Ranger will have a much easier time of it and outpace the paladin's non-smite damage pretty well.

>>49770428
Actually I'll do gunslinger instead since I was already doing gunslinger.

>>49770451
>I would describe Elsbeth's figure as pretty healthy.

>Huge fatty thighs
>Generous belly pudge
>Fat tits
>Unnaturally long ears fine-tuned to cake
>Chubby cheeks

>Healthy

>>49770463
I know how divine bond work and the fact that it adds. I'm saying I am still not impressed with it. A fighter can replicate it, and better (more options) using warrior's spirit.

>>49770501
But really this argument doesn't mean much until we both just put two builds to compare. Level 12 is what I usually use for optimization arguments because it's enough even feat poor classes can have their build come online. 25pb, 1pp, and standard WBL.

>>49770420
>in a campaign, you're fighting evil demons, vampires, dragons, or a brutally evil BBEG.
Maybe in your games.
As a DM, linear guild style matchups, and mixed bag shady bunches are some of my favorite things to toss out. As an example, PCs recently infiltrated a shady business that hired private guards for which I rolled alignments as percentage rolls according to the kind of people I figured were most likely to take the guard job. The try paladins could gamble like idiots and throw out smites based on dumb assumptions, or they could use their detect spells during out before conflicts, out try to figure out alignments themselves. Their abilities still mattered, but if as a DM all you do is throw out generic liches for the paladin to smite you might be a bad DM.

>>49769125
Half

>>49770501
Paladin gets to use divine bond more often than fighter does warrior spirit.

>>49770494
I'll give you the thick thighs and fat tits but her midsection's pretty compact compared to the rest of her figure.

And I don't see what the ears have to do with anything.

>>49770559
True, a max level fighter only has 7 uses.

>>49770571

Fat Elven ears either suggest the Elf is overweight or a successful hunter (and thus a good mate.)

Elsbeth has very fatty ears.

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>>49770494
To be fair she's a half-elf, so despite her size she still looks and acts extremely healthy.
>>49770451
>Elsebeths
>as in multiple porn pictures
I thought there was only one!