Pathfinder General - /pfg/

>We've lost the 'if you want build advice make sure to say what 3pp you can use' notice now

Goddamnit will we ever get it right

Reposting from the end of last thread:

here is another Deed


Nimble (Ex):
Active: The Gunslinger may, as a move action or as part of a move action, spend a grit point to become more difficult to hit. Gaining an additional +2 dodge bonus to AC until the beginning of his next turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level. Anything that causes the gunslinger to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the gunslinger to lose this dodge bonus.
Passive: The Gunslinger gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC, this bonus increases to +2 at 5th level and every 4 levels thereafter to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. Anything that causes the gunslinger to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the gunslinger to lose this dodge bonus.

Also another idea for one.

Noxious Discharge (Ex):
Active: The Gunslinger clear his gunbarrel explosively as a standard action, sending built up grime and fumes. This forms a 10ft cone in front of the gunslinger. Any enemy in this cone must make a reflex saving throw, equal to 10+½ his gunslinger level+his intelligence modifier or take 1d6+ 1 acid damage per gunslinger level and be blinded for 1d4 rounds. This cone increases to 15ft at 9th level and 20ft at 17th level
Passive: The gunslinger gains a +1 bonus against saving throws that would render him blind or cause acid damage. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level and every 4 levels thereafter (to a maximum of +5 at 17th level).

Basically I'm giving an idea of what kind of design you should expect out of the Gunslinger's Deeds.

Many will be debuff based, as Gunslingers (as a martial class) will amount to debuffing at range. Ones that target single creatures will replace an attack in a full attack, ones that do cones/areas/etc. will be standard actions.

>>49685441

Leaving out Forrest's patreon AGAIN. Don't be an asshole, OP.

>DSP's Forrest started a patreon for her own 3pp company: https://www.patreon.com/forrestfirestudios

>>49685466
>Friendly reminder to tell us what 3pp your game allows if you need character building help.

Posting near the top so it's easier for next one.

>>49685491
I purposely didn't put it there since it's been over two weeks and, if I recall correctly, Forrest said she didn't felt it needed to be there.

>>49685491

Because the first thing I want to see when opening this General is "GIVE THIS PERSON MONEY."

>>49685491
It's not actual content. If people want to donate to her patreon she links it in her oWN FUCKING PDF FILES GOD DAMN.

>>49685491
It doesn't need to be there.

Don't be a faggot, anon.

>>49685491
Forrest has said that while they appreciate all the support, and they don't think that people really ever read the pastebin, they also don't think their patreon should be in every OP.

Which is a smart move because if people keep fighting over it then the mention of the patreon will spark negative feelings by default once people are tired of the argument

>>49685491
I personally don't think a patreon should be in the OP, not because I have something against Forrest, but because it doesn't constitute news. When it first arrives (two weeks ago I believe) it made sense. However because unlike playtests it has no real set end time and will be semi-permanent.

i think two weeks is long enough for it to be in and gave it nice exposure.

If I were to do it the OP would be:
>Name
>Topic of the Thread
>Pastebin
>News or Playtests (playtests stay in while they're running, news has a two week fall off)
>Last thread link

It means in the future it won't get cluttered by a long of things we want to keep in there. After a certain amount of time leaving out the patreon isn't an asshole thing to do, it just means it isn't hot news any more.

Should I just retheme this to OP Salt Post v2?

>>49685483
Would you consider things like Rogue Talents, Rage powers, and Discoveries to be "point buy"?

>>49685506
>>49685466

People don't read it in the pastebin and they ignore it in the OP, is there really any point in it being in there?

>>49685544
>not because I have something against Forrest

But for real. What do you have against Forrest?

>>49685483
Reposting since I didn't see new thread

Problem is that casters are inherently "grabbox point guys" They pick what features they want out of a fuckhuge list, and get choices of other class features as well. Some even pick what features they want each day. Having to pick " DPR option with flavor A vs DPR option with flavor B" doesn't really compare to Spell selection. Your assumption that 3.X is class based features was flawed from the beginning.

>>49685606
Yes, because then we can smugly point it out and ignore them afterwards while feeling better about ourselves. Sometimes we like things that aren't directly helpful so we can get ego boosts.

>>49685562
I'm pretty sure this is v3 at least.

>>49685611
Well that and that the grabbox style lets you build your class differently than that person playing the same class. It helps with getting different concepts without having too much clutter with different classes for each niche role.

>>49685625
Let's argue about the version number then.

What happened to that lewd campaign from the other thread? I'm as thirsty as Death Valley over here.

Hey PFG, what kind of campaign have you always wanted to run, but you've never been able to get together?

>>49685654
Do you have proof you're a cute girl irl? If so you're in.

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>>49685654
Have some neckbeard tears

>>49685663
I've always wanted to run a campaign based around the three day loop of Majora's Mask, but that's a lot of effort involved that's really easy to screw up.

>>49685663
i just want to play

>>49685663
At some point once I learn how to work Roll20 better, I'd really like to run an 'all thieves' game where the party builds a criminal empire in a city with everything that goes into that. Empire building, all that jazz, like a janky urban kingmaker.

>>49685697
That sounds like a lot of fun.

>>49685697
Roll20 is pretty easy and that sounds fun

>>49685470
Also here is something to say:

There are a number of deeds called "Trick Shot" deeds. Concussive Bang from the last thread is one. These are deeds that replace 1 attack in a full attack. You can't replace ALL attacks during the full attack with them, only one. So it's a debuff a turn sort of thing.

>>49685573
They're not quite as bad the vigilante because they're narrower. I'll admit, I liked them when I first saw them in Pathfinder but I really don't like this trend of aimless bag of features classes. It's even worse when one class gets a talent that lets you pick up another classes talents. It's all pushing to a straight actual point buy.
>>49685611
I get that man. I really do. I understand the probIem the issue is the implementation. Take 3.5, that shit was point buy in all but name. The difference is that these talents and bags of features aren't asymmetrical. They're all one point and that really makes them generic and feels very point buy.
I want to make my characters out of Tetris blocks not 1x1 squares. Give them drawbacks, give them different costs, add requirements , connect unrelated ones, make them feel like classes.

>Use of discipline-specific weapons with Broken Blade inflict an additional 2 points of damage.

Is this only for maneuvers or do I passively gain +2 damage when I have broken blade on my discipline list?

>>49685697
Sounds like a really cool idea. One guy I play with is involved in something similar online (it's an all beguiler party with the group setting up a guild in a new part of the world) and he's having a blast with it. I'm just sad there wasn't room for me after he found the game.

>>49685663
I'd run a Fantasy Disaster game with giant city-rushing monsters.

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>>49685742
I think the main thing I need to do is find a good place to get urban maps, that and find a good source of tokens, and then I could try to do something like that.

And I like running a game like that; it's not end of the world stuff, it's fighting over fantasy Chicago and going up against the city and every other thieves guild. I'd probably homebrew up a city for this since I don't want to deal with established cannon for this. Presumably it'd be 3rd level, 3p content with approval, and feat taxes removed.

>>49685760
You're not using broken blade unless you're using a maneuver.

>>49685697
>>49685786
I'd be super-ultra-down for that.

Like srs.

>>49685788
There is the argument that using a BB stance counts.

>>49685786
Honestly if you didn't allow 3pp I'd be more worried

>>49685667
What counts as proof?

>>49685786

Make your own Urban maps. Use TILED. Use, rpg tilesets

use sprites from tokens

And that sounds SUPER FUN.

>>49685663
I've always wanted to run an intrigue based game. Make my players act as emissaries of their kingdom in a foreign land. Force them to decode the labyrinthine social hierarchy and unravel the mores of this strange new culture.

>>49685801
I'm game with 3p, it's just a matter of knowing what the hell everything does. A lot of why I'd be running this game is for my friend's first time.

>>49685810
I don't know how to do that because I'm tech illiterate. Does anyone know a good place to find some urban grid maps?

>>49685807
Time stamp'd pics, seeing person over cam, etc.

>>49685807
I believe the ancient standard of proof was something like "tits or GTFO"?

Is there a spell/magic item/psionic power/monster ability ect that would cause two characters to permanently switch bodies?

>>49685822
Its easier to make your own maps a lot of the time than it is to find ones that work for what you want. learning Tiled will make Dming on roll20 infinitely easier.

>>49685891
Where do people get all their cool tilesets without paying?

>>49685880
True mind switch

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/m/mind-switch

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>>49685663
Planescape with Pathfinder rules.

I used to be in the Navy. Whenever I got a group at a high enough level to use Plane Shift, and they were used to a system, I would have to move.

Now, I work 40-60 hours a week and can't get a group together.

>>49685911
http://www.spriters-resource.com/

Or google a tileset

I suggest GBA/SNES games.

What is a classic way of getting superpowers in a pulp setting? I'm doing CotCT as a Steelfist Commando (a private dick) with Elemental Flux, and I want a fun way to explain having it without just going "animus lol."

>>49685760
This works with a BB stance though, right
? Like as long as I'm in pugilist stance I get that bonus.

>>49685958
Bloodline heritage, outsider pacts, mad wizard experiments

>>49685667
>>49685824

Why do you want proof so bad? A good RPer is a good RPer regardless of what's between their legs.

The sunbeam and sunburst spells deal double damage to creatures "to which sunlight is harmful or unnatural" and can one-hit kill any ooze or undead creature "specifically harmed by bright light". But what exactly does "harm" mean in this context? Does having Light Aversion, Light Blindness, Light Sensitivity, or Sunlight Powerlessness count as being harmed by bright light? Or does the creature have to take actual damage from light?

>>49685759
Reposting:
All classes are already random grab bags of abilities due to boatloads of archetypes. Want a rogue that casts spells? Well there you go, archetype for that. Want to be a wizard that has a gun? Archetype! Monk that actually uses weapons? Archetype!
The classes have no identity left because you can almost do anything with any class (even the caster/non-caster divide is breached in very few cases).

>>49685981
Because I want to roleplay with cute girls, obviously. If you don't fit the criteria I don't think this is the game for you.

>>49685986
nobody cares Marc

>>49685986
This is a byproduct of pushing out content every month. I wonder if the longer a system is supported the closer it gets to being full point buy

>>49685986
Some archetypes let you appear near to another class's schtick, but it is a pale imitation. Monks & Barbarians are very different, despite having ays to appear like the other. Rogues as well.

I just lets you accomplish a lot of weird specific things.

>>49685920
Thanks bruh.

>>49685984
I think the creatures that take extra damage from light will have it mentioned in their stat blocks.
Otherwise, I'd consider Light Sensivity too low, but the rest probably fits the bill. It's one of these unclearly outlined things that are up to the group to decide.

>>49685663
I've always wanted to try running a Cerulean Seas abyssal trench game with the players working with extended family units to claim colossal monster corpses for survival, culminating with them making a gradual, perilous journey to the surface for reasons I have yet to come up with. One of my players doesn't like not having human as a default race option, which kinda leaves things dead in the water (hue hue).

>>49685996
Will a cute dick pic do?

>>49686057
Only if it's a cute feminine dick pic.

>>49686057
only if its a feminine penis

>>49686037
Why not allow different races but outwardly they all appear as humans? Maybe some tribes developed tougher and have access to some inherent magic that allows them to see in the dark (dorfs), others have lived in the fungal forest for so long that they became elf-like and other lived in warrens that they became small and weak (halflings&gnomes).
Reflavouring is always an option and I kind of understand that as a player you probably want to have specific mechanical options, because PF is restrictive like that.

>>49686057
Bruh, nah. Sorry.

>>49686074
>>49686076
>>49686085
Perfect, I'll get my ribbon collection.

>>49685970
I wish someone would confirm this

So here is another Deed I conceptualized. Thus far this is the only out of combat deed.

Advanced Training (Ex):
Active: The Gunslinger chooses a skill. If this skill is not a class skill it becomes one. The Gunslinger may spend a grit point as part of making a skill check, when doing so he rolls a 1d4 in addition to the normal roll and add it to the total. At level 9 this increases to 2d4, at level 17 increases to 3d4. If the Gunslinger rolls maximum on the dice he may roll again up to a maximum times equal to their Int modifier (minimum 1), continuing to add the total. For instance if the gunslinger rolls a 4, and then a 3, he adds a total of 7 to the skill roll.
Passive: Gain a +1 bonus to the selected skill, this bonus increases to +2 at 5th and every 4 levels thereafter (to a maximum of +5 at 17th level)

>>49686187
Remove the grit consumption and the skill bonus and add the skill tricks and you've got a feature that helps a bit.
The thing with skill is not how good you are, but what you can actually do with them.
Unless you've got a cool beans GM who just lets you apply skills to almost anything, but then you probably don't need these houserules.

>>49685470
Nimble seems kinda meh. It relies on the gunslinger knowing they are going to be attacked in advance. In my experience, such abilities never get used. If it needs to have an active mode, than make it an immediate action, otherwise either keep it passive or make it cost nothing so it can be spammed.

>>49686074
this is the kind of good open-minded discourse i'd hope to see from /tg/. cute girls can be cute no matter what's between their legs. ^^

>>49686278
Lolno, you're just a faggot.

>>49686292
Its not gay as long as balls don't touch anon

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>>49686292
Not that there's anything wrong with that!

>>49686299
>Balls don't touch
Well, ten second rule of course.

>>49686247
So instead of the passive version perhaps give them the Skill Unlock for the selected skill?

As for grit consumption an always extra 1-3d4 is pretty strong, and I am unsure how it would compare to other classes. An investigator who has the closes similar ability has to invest in a separate feature for I no to consume points, and though his is higher it can not explode. however it can be more widely applied.

Perhaps switch the two. Make the the d4s the passive and have them able to spend a grit point to temporarily gain the skill unlock. So the bonus is always around and you can activate it to do more things.

I have also considered making it so if they choose gunslinger class skills they get to choose 2, is they choose non class skill they only choose on. Similar to what I did with the fighter.

>>49686334

"Flash and Shock (Ex): At 1st level, the gulch gunner can take advantage of the flash and sound of a firearm to throw off an attacker's aim at close range. When she makes an attack against a foe within her firearm's first range increment, she may spend 1 grit point to gain a +4 circumstance bonus to AC against that opponent until the beginning of her next turn. She can only perform this deed while wearing medium, light, or no armor, and while carrying no more than a light load. This deed replaces the deadeye deed."

>>49686266
They get both the active and passive. So it's more like both of them together have to equal roughly a rage power rather than one or the other.

>>49686363
I am unsure what you are trying to convey.

>>49686334
Well, what are you shooting for? What's your goal? How well optimized does your group play?

Making a combat class spend his combat ressource on non-combat stuff already is a bad idea, especially if it's for small effects like adding bonuses to skills. Grit is also quite sparse, unlike Rage or Bardic Performance.
From my point of view, the right move would be to give him the skill unlock with maybe a slow scaling bonus (+1 every three levels) at no special cost. Now the gunslinger can shine in special out of combat situations, but he'd never threaten the true skill monkey classes like Bard, Unchained Rogue and Investigator, because those shine in all out of combat situations.

>>49686434
>Grit is also quite sparse, unlike Rage or Bardic Performance.
Ah here is another thing for the unchained gunslinger, grit has become much less sparse. The total grit pool and how easily it's recovered have both improved.

>>49685470
>Reflex-None Acid 1d6+Lv and Blind 1d4
>20ft cone at 17th
That's so fucking useless...

HOWEVER: I'll give you this: Conceptually you're on the right track it's the numbers there that sucked balls. Deeds SHOULD be interesting abilities you couldn't do otherwise, instead of the stupid worthless shit we got like "full round pretend-vital-strike that costs my per-day resource" or "clear out a misfire which shouldn't even be a thing with the stats and requirements the fucking weapon has" or "spend my per-day resource to throw myself on the ground to prostrate faster in hopes they take pity on me but mechanically I just fuck myself"

>>49686453
Is it "at the end of encounter and x/hour otherwise"?

>>49685491
Reminder to everyone that nothing productive has ever come from donating to a tranny's patreon. Don't let the fact she's "one of us" fool you.

>>49686453
Skill abilities are still rather boring and you don't lose much by making them free. You get it for one skill (personally I'd prefer maybe two or three to make it a bit more well rounded).
How often will these skills be relevant? If you'd look at it over a whole campaign it'd be an insignificant number - now if you make the player pay a ressource, he might even decide against it, making the number of times it was relevant even less.
Just make it free and make your players happy

>>49686612
Yeah I've

>>49686632
The number of grit points a gunslinger has is 3+his level+his intelligence modifier.

Downing an enemy & confirming a crit gives you back 2.

Trick shot deeds (one that replace a shot in a full attack) refund the grit point cost if they fail the save.

So the pool is larger, you get back more when you do, and some of the deeds refund under certain circumstances.

I have also considered adding a 10 minute (collect yourself/clean your guns/etc.) to regain some number of grit points (possible a number of d4s worth).

>>49686612
I have considered having the duration increase as well. Also it should be save for half damage. I'll change that.

Right now I am working out the numbers so they aren't completely fucked. 2d4 rounds of blind in a 30ft cone IS useful I think. So maybe have it go from 10ft->20ft->30ft and have the duration of the blind increase from 1d4->2d4

Now here is a mechanic I have been considering. The skill rolling has the d4s explode. I have considered making a lot of the unchained gunslinger's abilities work off of d4s and making ALL the d4s exploding.

>>49686659
What does being a tranny have to do with anything?

This is more a general question really, given so many people consistently identify as some kind of trans (but never transformers) on here as if it was the most important thing in the world (or the only aspect of their personality).

But my boss is a transvestite, sadly looks better in a chinese dress than his own wife, and if he had a patreon I wouldn't be worried about getting the goods I'm promised in the least.

How's it somehow interact with patreon in any way?

>>49686735
Just remember that by mid-high levels anything within 20 and later 30ft is in melee reach.

So when you fire off a 20ft cone, you provoke. you provoke a lot.

>>49685958
Bitten by an Alchemical Spider.
Made a deal with a devil (or demon, daemon, shoggoth, demodand, rakasha, etc).

Whatever happened to the dude who made Way of the Wicked?

In a better, parallel timeline, he would be a top-tier RPG writer.

>>49686789
>Deal with a shoggoth
How does that work?

>>49686754
They're trying to be an edgelord and get (you)s just ignore them. They're certainly not being excellent to others.

>>49686754
Bein' a transvestite is getting off on it. Being transsexual is feeling so shit about being what they said you were you go 'no fuck that shit'. 'transgender' is basically any of the above.

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>>49686682
I see where you're coming from, but I am not sure if always on bonuses are always a good thing from a balance perspective. However I have rewrote it as thus:

Advanced Training (Ex):
Active: The Gunslinger select two skills, one of these skills may be a non Gunslinger class skill, if it is it becomes one. By spending a grit point the Gunslinger gains the Skill Unlock for the next application of one of the selected skills.
Passive: When performing a skill check with one of the Gunslinger's selected skills he rolls an additional d4, and adds it to the total. If he rolls max on this d4 he may roll it again and add both numbers to the total. He may continue to reroll to a maximum number of times equal to his intelligence modifier (minimum 1). At 7th level this increases by 1 to 2d4, and increases every 6 levels there after to a maximum of 4d4 at 19th level.

I also put the averages for this into anydice. I included a screencap of the averages.

Output 1 is 1d4, 2 is 2d4, and so on.

>>49686774
Not everything high level is large, though there is a tendency for GMs to like big creatures at high level.

For these however I planned on them not provoking AoOs, I need to put that in however.

>>49686872
>balance perspective
What balance do two skill unlocks break? It just makes the gunslinger a bit more versatile.
The "skillmonkeys" will still be good at ALL (or nearly all) skills and at more relevant ones at that (knowledges are pretty good, and wizards, bards and investigators will have top scores here, bard will still have better diplomacy etc).

>>49686983
No I mean making them free. Since I've already increased the number of grit points you have access to it allows you to use them relatively freely, but still have imposed limits.

More than anything it won't present as a difficulty until you hit a situation you are put under strain (have these abilities put under strain). That strain is part of the good drama of gaming, when you have to make a limited number of pegs fit into more holes than you have.

Bonuses are good, skill unlocks have a lot of potential (which is why rogues are often the only ones with them, depending on how you use that rule).

>Pathfinder session has been canceled the last two weeks due to different people being out of town
>Just got a call that this session will be cut too
>Next week we already have plans for a friend's birthday

Well, fuck. How do you guys deal without playing for so long?

>>49687216
I have found that when a game gets skipped 3 times in a row, you can pretty much bet that that game is done.

Starting trying to find a new one.

>>49687034
Interesting, but you're missing that many skill unlocks still require you to roll, instead of giving you an automated success, keeping the tension.
Furthermore, making them cost something is either a non-option or stymies the player (how it does the second, you've already demonstrated - the player is limited and might waste resources). On the other hand, the player will use it if it's clearly benefical, making it a no-brainer in that case.

Skills are one of the weakest links in Pathfinder, Martials have among the least interesting ways to interact with them, so why restrict martials there?
Furthermore, Skill Unlocks are by far no spells or anything like that, so there's no indication to make them limited.

Don't you want your players to enjoy this? Why not let one of them make a gunslinger and let that gunslinger be actually quite the smooth operator all the time? Why should his talent to diplomance be restricted by how many people he has shot up today?
Can't you have more tense situation if your PCs can act in more different ways and are ready to do so? Maybe it gets the player to be more daring (as he should be as a Gunslinger) and thus give you more opportunities to give the group hell?

>>49686084
Well, I could, but I feel that might still be too far from base for him. Also, it would somewhat disincentivize my players from trying the new options available to them. I want this game to be a kind of "meta-isekai", where the players themselves are thrust into a new world that they don't fully understand. That's something that I feel would make things more memorable. Besides, the books already have aquatic elves and dwarves.

Ultimately, this player is an outlier that also happens to have a bit of sway in regards to what we run, due to circumstances. He would rather play in tropey games because he's been in too many that try to subvert tropes instead and hasn't gotten to play "go in dungeon, kill dragon". Too be fair, neither have I, but that doesn't hold enough interest for me to run.

tl;dr: friend is picky about games, and some of this options already exist.

>>49687216
usually the games are still on, they just don't want you in them anymore.

or at least That Guy who happens to be the DM's boss doesn't, and you called him out on his bullshit a few times before his promotion.

>>49687238
Well, remember that if you ever have to choose between playing this campaing you really want to GM and another one you're not that hyped about, go for the the one you really want to do.
Makes for a way better game for everyone involved.

>>49687231
>>49687279
This is with IRL friends.
Week 1 we had two people out for on a vacation with their family they planned a while back.
Week 2 was our DM heading out of town for the weekend.
Week 3 (this weekend) has to be cut due to one of our player's having family problems. His brother is in the ER for panic attacks, so he won't be around tomorrow.
Week 4 is a mutual friend's BDay that half of us will be at anyways.

Rolled 3, 3 + 2 = 8 (2d4 + 2)

Is everyone excited for their games tonight or this weekend?

>>49687216
The trick is to be in 4~5 different weekly games of questionable reliability

It's almost guaranteed you'll be able to play in at least one that week, but rarely will all of them happen at once and overwhelm you.

>>49687439
Pretty hype. I've been doing a ten plagues thing, this week will be plague #3. I'm wondering if I can get through all ten without the players putting it together.

>>49685797
>>49686174

I was also hoping to find clarification here, for my Fiendbound Marauder. Any authorities here? Holy scripture? Does using a broken blade stance grant the discipline weapon damage bonus?

>>49687659
I think the last time I saw RAI on it, the answer was no.

>>49687659
RAW, yes. The page does not list specifically Broken Blade maneuvers, it just say with Broken Blade.

RAI, no. I don't know why they even put that there, considering Broken Blade requires the specific weapons to use any of the maneuvers in the first place.

>>49687674
>>49687701

This makes sense. The damage bonus would be a bigger deal if you were doing broken blade as it seems to be intended, using unarmed strikes without the monk's damage progression. The discipline is already pretty high on damage.

>>49687728
Yeah, but PoW introduced a feat that gave you half the monk's damage progression. And all the classes aren't anywhere near as MAD as monk. At most they require 3 stats, not 4-5.

Joining a campaign, starting with a 12th level wizard.

Is it worth it to VMC Oracle (Lore) to pick up Mental Acuity to get the +4 inherent bonus on Intelligence? It would cost 3 feats, and I am not entirely certain if the +4 intelligence bonus would make up for those three feats or not.

>creating character for online game
>just now realized Disable Device has an armor check penalty

Why? Couldn't I just take off my gloves and be fine?

>>49687828
Are you trying to make sense of PF again?

>Join game
>GM has the most retarded grammar and punctuation
Why?

>>49687861
ESL?

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>>49687809
You don't meet the prerequisites for that Revelation.

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement

>Revelation: At 3rd level, she gains one of the following revelations from the list of those available to her mystery as an oracle of her character level – 6 (minimum 1). She must have an effective oracle level high enough to select the revelation.

Your Oracle level is 6.

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/lore

>Mental Acuity (Ex): You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation.

Take Craft Wondrous Item, and make yourself a Headband of Intellect.

Okay, I'm designing a homebrew class, called The Pastor- It's a Cleric/Bard Hybrid class, and the big issue is deciding how to design the classes abilities.

Just so you know, it's a d6, 9 level arcanist style caster.

Currently, they have two sets of abilities- Lessons and Sermons. Lessons function like Arcanist Exploits, while Sermons as Bardic Performances.

Currently, Sermons are divided into three types: Core Tenets, Aesops, and Scripture.

Core Tenets are the Inspire Courage, and define the pastor.
Aesop's are akin to Counterspell, or Bardic Masterpieces (And sometimes are just bardic masterpieces), and can be swapped around while preparing spells.

Then there's Scripture, which grants effects on par with Inspire Greatness, Soothing Song, and similar performances (Or at least tries too).

I'm debating whether to continue with this style, or stick to a set order of abilities.

Continuing, I'm debating whether to limit Pastor's Lessons by Domain by default, or make it so that you have a smorgasbord of abilities.

Following, I'm debating whether or it's worth the effort to stick to the Cleric spell list, or split the spell lists into "Spheres" of spells.

>Me: Shit, I dunno what to pick with this feat
>Anon: Grab Snapping turtle style, it's a motherfucking +1 to CA!
>Me: Are you for real? I'm not even into grapple
>Anon: Dude, +1 to CA, why would you even pick the rest of the chain? the first one is the shit
I sometimes forget people don't know shit about how the game plays, monsters already hit us whenever they want, +1 to CA means jack shit, is literally: Waste a feat for no benefit

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These are orcs in my world.
Y/N?

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>>49688554
If that's what an Orc looks like, then what do Half-Orcs look like?

>>49688506
Yeah, I run into this problem with my group a lot. None of them are optimizers and few of them spend much time actually reading up on Pathfinder. They usually build characters more for "flavor" than mechanical expertise.

I'll help people out by making suggestions on feats or character building, but I often find that I have to seriously hold back when making characters or I'd basically outclass my entire group.

>>49688554

I want to fill her with half-orcs!

>>49688554
If all the orcs in your world were cute green girls you'd end up with a world full of half-orcs pretty damn fast.

>>49688601
>>49688603
>her

>>49688554
Eh, you do you.

>>49688506
You should show him dodge.

>>49688623

She's got perky breasts and cute eyebrows, of course it's a she.

>>49688633
Maybe orcs in that anon's world are all hermaphrodites with breasts, child-rearing hips and monstrous 16 inch horse dicks.

>>49688554
That is cute, cute! Even if it is just a green elf.

>>49688645

There is literally zero evidence of that and more evidence pointing towards orcish women being cute girls with good skin and cute handfuls of boob.

>>49688645
I'm still okay with this. It is also well hidden behind that loin cloth.

>>49688628
His Char already has dodge, shield focus and another +1 to CA shit feat, and he's srly thinking on picking snapping turtle once he levels. He plays a Bard

>>49688666
Oh. Show her Combat Expertise.

Also are you purposely using CA instead of AC? Last time I checked, Snapping Turtle didn't give a bonus to California.

>>49688645
What the goddamn fuck?
No, seriously. Wat.

>>49688645
nobody likes hermaphrodites. not even hermaphrodites. dickgirls aren't hot, and the manly ones even less.

>>49688690
>What the goddamn fuck?

Every time a woman is posted without her vagina clearly visible, the go-to response is to assume they're a man.

Because, clearly, a sign of being a healthy heterosexual is to wish for a penis on every person you see.

>>49688690
Sorry, in my language it's CA and it kinda stucks in my head.

Also he doesn't attack so combat expertise doesn't help him, but if it did, he would totally pick it.

>>49688690
>What the goddamn fuck?
>No, seriously. Wat.

Welcome to 4chan friend.

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>>49687439

Yyyep. Going to be freeing a dingy little town from the foul influence of some hags.

>>49688902

>tfw I will never pet a Fennec fox

>>49688902
By any chance are you the same fennic bro who posts in the hgg2 threads?

>>49687439
Two PF and One 40kRP, its going to be a pretty good weekend.

>>49687439
Game's looking like it's going to be cancelled.

On the bright side, I can get my college work out of the way. Then I can get drunk and start writing for my next session.

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>>49688951

Nah, must be some other person who likes them.

>>49689075

RARE FOX
A
R
E

F
O
X

>>49685786
>I think the main thing I need to do is find a good place to get urban maps, that and find a good source of tokens, and then I could try to do something like that.

Jolly, my old GM for Shadowrun actually lifted a topographical city map off of google maps and just dropped grids over it.

That's the great thing about an urban campaign, the resources are easier to pull off. especially if its as close to real life as possible.

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Sup, /pfg/
Can I get some more feedback and input on my homebrew class, the Empyreus?
Its designed to be a well-rounded class capable of covering offense and support with a few crowd control tricks.

Update: I now included 3 new archetypes
The Discordant is a more crowd control and offense oriented archetype
The Harmonist is a more support and healing oriented archetype
The War Weaver changes it to a Path of War class

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xQMlB45-UFEWCB2ffqoBUMhR-t4afSXLk29fgTJNVyw/edit?usp=sharing

posting a cute THICC drow to get your attention.

>>49689176

Look at the size of those boobies!

>>49688707
This site is so used to creepy fetishes that the default assumption is "that's a fetish post."

What a time to be alive.

>>49689390
>This site is so used to creepy fetishes that the default assumption is "that's a fetish post."

He posted a "what the fuck" towards an anon talking about horse-dick futa orcs.

>>49689445
The response to his post that I responded to in turn specifically mentioned that the default assumption behind any picture that looks feminine but not exaggeratedly so is "it's a trap or a futa." This is only possible in environments so used to a picture they assumed to be of a female being, in actuality, of a feminine male or of a hermaphrodite that the default assumption has changed to reflect this.

I then proceeded to make this observation concerning default assumptions, mostly out of a lack of any inclination to do something else with my time but partially out of a sense of wonder.

tl;dr one anon is new, another explained what's happening to the new anon, and then I observed why, and all of it was probably unnecessary.

>GM who isnt a native english speaker tries to send a puzzle your way
Literally one of the worst games I've been in

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>>49689593
I like the idea of puzzles, I just hate the idea of puzzles because I'm dumb and my character is supposed to be smart!

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>>49689913
>I like the idea of puzzles, I just hate the idea of puzzles because I'm dumb and my character is supposed to be smart!

>tfw your character is a genius but you're an idiot.

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>>49690058
>>49689913
What does one even do in situations like this? It seems like playing a character with strengths that you don't have is a recurring issue.

>>49690058
Right?!

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>>49690124
>>49690126
>>49690058

>mfw your character is a genius, you're an idiot, and the other PCs ask your character what they should do next

>>49690124
>What does one even do in situations like this? It seems like playing a character with strengths that you don't have is a recurring issue.

Depends on the situation, if it's something where you have to show legitimate intelligence you typically get by with a lot of desperate rambling that lets people know you have no fucking idea what you're doing, but if it's good ole pseudo-intelligence just start stealing things you've seen done elsewhere.

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Looking for Group!
I want to be a player again, my old group split.
I'm available every Saturday @ 9PM-3AM GMT+8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUvWbWTnURg

>>49690394
source

>>49690457

It appears to be an elf with a sexually desirable figure asking if a (presumably human and male) person wants to have sex (or as Sheldon Cooper from The Big Ban Theory might say, coitus) with her.

>>49690502
You know it's an Orc.

>>49690502
>or as Sheldon Cooper from The Big Ban Theory might say, coitus

God, I love that show! It really shows how nerds are just like us, with their own problems and aspirations.

We did it guys, the party got Serithtial!

I can finally do something more impacting than dying.

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>>49690586
>Serithtial
What's that?!

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>>49690586

I'm so proud of you, anon! You finally got access to a legendary blade, the stuff of legends! Not only that, but it's a cool fire-sword with enchantments out the wazoo!

Congratulations, wield it with pride!

>>49690457
Marcille Meshi

>>49690647

Her ears are the wrong kind of fat, though.

>>49690647
That doesn't seem right!

>>49690163

Start with "consider the following/what we've learned", state the obvious, throw around some wild conjecture, and then suggest the sort of thing they'd want to do anyway. The worst that could happen is that you lead the party into a horrible fate worse than death, and the players hold you personally responsible.

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>>49690620
Minor Artifact from Curse of the Crimson Throne AP. Kinda important in the story.

>>49690626
I'm so excited

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I need your help, /pfg/. Mainly the roleplayers.

All of my characters end up the same. They may be drastically different classes, races, or whatever but they always end up acting the same as my last. I don't know how to branch out. I don't know why it keeps happening but it does. Even if I try, they'll always end up with the same speech patterns and the basic "kind hearted do-gooder" template. It's bumming me the fuck out. How do I get out of this? Just write? I probably just have brain problems.

>>49690830
Do you do speaking? Because I've noticed I'm able to do better roleplaying when I'm typing my character.

How do I handle a group of players that have far too much knowledge of the meta game? They aren't motivated when they know they can positively fuck up everything they encounter, the wizard in particular. I'm starting to realize that I should ahve just banned a ton of spells from the start, but now we're too far along and I've got to keep these people entertained

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>>49685441
> Dude almost exclusively plays female characters
> doesn't do anything pervy
> claims he likes the aesthetic
What's your opinion on guys like this?

>>49690830

Anon, I want you to make your next character as a common street criminal.

And I don't mean a thief with the people in mind, or secretly has a heart of gold, I'm talking an asshole that fucks barmaids on the table and doesn't put a coaster down first. Real irredeemable scum.

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>>49690830

Have you considered going ham?

>>49690872

About as weird as a guy who always makes large, tough men; is probably somewhat of a kink, but they play them well and it isn't offensive.

Also image source?

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>>49690899
No idea

>>49690876
Yes. I would recommend making your next character very different from what you normally play.

Make a fairly scummy character who puts himself first. Make an incredibly naive elven princess. Make lawful neutral "by the book" character who refuses to allow morality to sway his judgement.

Play a character who is specifically very different from what you normally play and make sure you keep to the basic personality archetype.

>>49690872

...That it's nice they play to their preferences without necessarily making things weird for other people?

>>49690872
Could be a transsexual using RPGs as a way to explore their gender. I've played with a couple of people like that. Honestly, whatever. And as an artist I'm actually kind of grateful because it lets me draw cute girls when I do character portraits and such.

>>49690830

I have the exact opposite problem; I always make the same race, same class, even the same gender, but I always give them wildly different backstories and personalities.

>>49690936

>tfw never had a DM cool enough to do character portraits

>>49690936

Any you'd care to share? Or would you prefer to keep group-related work private?

So I'm turning over ideas for a halloween one-shot. I'm kind of thinking about running the House on Haunted Hill. It'll be removed from the rest of the campaign, like a dream or something, so I'm thinking about maybe just allowing or encouraging the PCs to kill one another, and maybe letting them come back as ghosts to get revenge if they want. I guess I'll also need a haunted murder house.

Does anyone know of any good pathfinder/D&D murder-house maps I could build off? Also looking for other suggestions.

>>49688554
My orcs are bunch of LE religious zealot vegetarians who live up in the mountains and worship their weird chair god while being angry about humans conquering them hundreds of years ago.

>>49691178
Most of the pictures I do are in notebooks or on the backs of player's character sheets. I'll try and get them uploaded on Sunday though when our group gets together if you're still interested.

>>49690962
I do the tokens for very nearly every creature in my game.
Expect, players always give me one for their characters. I know I'm no artist but it still kinda hurts when you submit a ripped 16 pixel high sprite rather than give me a chance.

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Asked over at /5eg/ got no replies, does anyone use battlemaps around these parts?

I'm maybe looking into making a tileset for selling but I don't know if it would be worth my time.

Does anyone actually use that roll20 market place?

Pic related is an empty tile.

>>49691514
I have no idea.

>>49690502
http://g.e-hentai.org/g/880758/c5df01e67b/

Marcille is the cutest.

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>>49691514
Step it up senpai

>>49691770
That's dumb!

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>>49691784
That was another question, for battle maps do you guys prefer top down, or at a slight angle?

Or maybe even... both?

I think an angled one would be harder to setup for the end-user.

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>>49691931
Zelda style is an option too, I literally have no idea what the market wants, though.

>>49691931
should have a slight angle, it just looks better

>>49691931

If you're making things to work with R20, the big thing to keep in mind is if shit snaps to grid correctly (especially for those of us who are too lazy to try and finagle the size just right using alt-click or the grid-sizing tool). Straight-down is the easiest to do this with, but being able to suggest depth is also useful since it makes it more clear how tall objects are (and if they provide cover or impede movement).

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>>49691997
Ultimately, it's 3D in orthographic view.
This means I don't have to worry about things lining up.
If I model it to a grid, it will match the grid.

This works best with true top down or zelda style.

From the looks of it, zelda style is the favorite, (among the small sample of people I asked).

This ultimately gives me more freedom and makes certain things easier to convey.

>>49691770
>>49690457

>>49686754
Transvestite isn't at all like transsexual anon. The former just like girly clothes, the latter is a mentally diseased person that is a plague upon society.

3.5 had a feat known as brutal throw where you could use your strength modifier instead of your dexterity in your attack rolls.

Is there an equivalent in pathfinder that is 1pp and relatively accessible to a low level character?

Belt of mighty hurling is waaaay too expensive.

>>49692368
Nope.

>>49692368
There is noting like that accessible to a lowbie.

>>49692415
>>49692417

Well, it is not what I was hoping to hear, but hte certainty is nice.

>tfw you have no game to play

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Thanks for the help anons.

how would one make a steel hound investigator not suck

>>49692677
Make guns not suck.

>>49692704
But according to people on the Paizo forums and amazing writers like Auginsatas or however its spelled guns are op xP

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>>49692734

>>49692752
Do you think i'm joking motherfucker.

>>49692734
Guns are in an odd space. A gunslinger (or anyone who adds des to damage) with two pistols of the infinite sky will kill anything in their first range increment, no questions asked. You simply can't defend against two seeking cyclonic pistols that don't jam.

I can get the monster feat storm soul that makes my character immune to lightning damage, also cold and non-lethal damage immunity from mummification.

What kind of shenanigans can I pull off?
Only thought of detonate recklessly and grapple people for others to target.

Due to backstory I can ignore racial prequisites for feats, any recommendations?

>>49693109
1pp only, forgot to add.

>>49693001
Yeah, all that requires is a gunslinger getting huge amounts of gold for a specific magic weapon that then invalidates feats they took to simply be effective at earlier levels

Wow so great.

/tg/ i've got a game i'm dming coming up soon. one of my players is new, one has been playing with me since i've started playing tabletop games, and the other two have some experience with pathfinder. i've not used point buy as a stat generation method before, mostly because the groups i ran for enjoyed just using a stat array or rolling. is a 25 point buy *too* much? i can't imagine it makes characters broken, and i'm not worried because none of the players are minmaxers.

mostly i just want to make sure my players are having a good time, especially since one of them is new, and so i want to make sure they have the stats to allow their characters to thrive.

>>49693001
>this class is really good if you invest a lot of gold into it

Wowsers

>>49693236
don't forget that ivnestment of gold literally makes your feats you've had to spend up until then fuckign worthless

Prehensile Hair states you can 'instantly' grow your hair, but does that mean it's a free action, or is it still a standard like other hexes?

>>49693454
standard

>>49693229
25 point buy is absolutely not too much, and should really be the standard.

>i want to make sure they have the stats to allow their characters to thrive.

You're correct, lower point buy hurts martial classes (since they need to spread out stats and not just focus on one) and casters don't really care (since they only need one stat), so a higher point buy actually evens the playing field a small bit.

>>49693612
>not using 32 PB

>>49693454
Unless spcifically stated to be otherwise, any (SU) action is a standard action.

>>49693624
I do actually use 32PB, just felt recommending it to new anon would confuse them more than needed, 25 is fine

>>49693650
Nice

Yeah I actually think 32 pb is the sweetspot, plus i think its mathematically pretty close to 4d6-1

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Why is Card Caster so fucked inside-out?

>Requires limited ammunition instead of a weapon, thus enchantments are ultimately more expensive
>Despite being limited like ammunition, cards are treated as a dart for other purposes, so cannot be drawn as a free action like ammunition
>Archetype doesn't alter Spell Combat, so by RAW you can't fucking use your primary class feature with throwing cards

errata when, fucking hell

>>49693624
I feel like 32 point buy is too much to be honest.

>>49693698
darts are ammunition.

So Paizo thinks 1 ki point = 3 turns of rage

>>49693729
Blowgun Darts are. Thrown darts (pic related) are a different thing and, despite PFSRD sorting them into the ammunition section of the site, they are listed on the original table as a ranged weapon.

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>>49693785
Forgot pic

>>49693794
they still function as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, much like Shuriken.

>>49693822
Shuriken has a specific caveat in its description. Darts do not have this caveat, thus they appear to be in the same boat as javelins and such unless I missed something that says otherwise.

>>49693847
Hmm, there doesn't seem to by anything clearly in the rules, but no reasonable GM wouldn't treat them as ammunition given their price and weight.

I suppose its a RAW vs RAI thing ultimately, but they're clearly meant to be treated like Shuriken

>>49693882
I totally agree, but most DMs would also probably say that Cardcaster's Spell Combat can be used with ranged weapons. Because obviously.

It's more just a matter of Cardcaster's RAW being shitty and busted.

>>49693908
Paizo RAW being shitty and busted?

Never happens.

>>49693612
>>49693624
>>49693667
>tfw if Gm allow point buy it has to be 15
I want to leave this group, but there aren't many groups in my town

>>49694129

There are games online recruiting every day, anon.

>>49694129
Be the change you want to see

>>49690409
>frog leap studios
>not linking to the wheels on the bus
>onejob.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGtYLRQh1Gk

>>49694129
so play online

>>49694229
>>49694149
My experiences with online games went from incredible horrible to even worse

>>49694243
Mine have been pretty good.

>>49694243
Mine have ranged from Mediocre to great, especially for groups that drew partially from /pfg/.

Maybe I just lucked out.

>>49694243

My experience has been variable, just like it probably would be with any other medium.

I've got high hopes for a game coming up, though! The DM is cool, the other players are really fun, and we gonna be knightly knights doing knightly things!

>>49694277
i wish i had a game coming, i really want to play

>>49693719
32pb is exactly enough for 18/16/14/12/10/8

Is that really too much?

>>49694243
My experiences have ranged from good to really good to I think one bad game. The trick is to find a group of people you enjoy the company of and play with them.

>>49694280

Do you prefer text or voice?

>>49694314
Prefer text honestly.

>>49694281
Yes

>>49694330
explain why

>>49694281
>>49694330
>tmw one of my groups is currently using a 18 17 16 16 11 10 array

>>49694312
>>49694243

I hope this is advice that is already known or whatever, but the first step to having consistently great online games is losing your fear of dropping out and keeping your eyes open to any warning signs.

Look for chemistry, the DM being assertive yet non-argumentative, the other players having solid concepts and a willingness to interact with their party members. There are a million things that can point to a game being good or bad, and you need to feel them out before getting into the first session.

Sure, you might throw out a diamond, but for every diamond you're throwing out a dozen rocks.

>>49694333
No need to prioritize anything. Everyone starts out with a 20 and an 18. in addition to great constitution.

25 pointbuy makes you budget, without really making you suffer for it.

>>49694383
Yeah man, a martial character might be able to have decent strength, con, and dex, and maybe have enough left over to put a 12 in int so he's somewhat useful

Fucking no need to prioritize at all

>>49694383
The whole POINT is not having to prioritize. Martial characters always have to invest in the big 3 with little exception, then of course there's those pesky mental stats.
>but you can build a viable character at 25 PB
Of course you can, hell you can even build a GOOD character with 25 PB. The reason I do 32 is because some classes get to dump things into 1 or 2 stats and not worry about it even a little, while mixed classes require both physical and mental stats. I want both options to be attractive choices.

>>49694445
basically the big thing about 32pb is it makes MAD classes much much better

>>49694389
>decent
Nigger 20 strength is great, 16 is "decent".

You entitled fucking baby.

>>49694459
16 str is not decent when the fullcaster can afford to have a 20 in their casting stat at level 1.

>>49694459
Yes, and martials need 'great' to decent scores in multiple stats to keep up with casters who need one great score and only one great score.

>>49694459
16 is mediocre at best

>>49694330
How dare you go against the /pfg/ hivemind?

>>49694330
This, casters should be the only ones having an 18 on a stat and not dying because of it

>>49694320

Sorry, the group I'm in does voice.

If anyone's interested, it's a Celtic-themed campaign featuring the party fighting back against foreign invaders akin to the Tuatha De Denaan and the Fir Bolg.

>>49694551
I mean i could do voice

>>49694516
You can easily get an 18 in your primary stat as a martial and not fucking suffer for it with 25 points you big fucking baby.

>>49694129
So what if it's a 15 point buy? That's the ONLY reason you want to leave? Seems pretty pathetic.

>>49694612
>bur muh 20 casting stat meme
Almost guaranteed to suffer for it when saves start getting rolled.

>>49694516
You can easily get an 18 as a martial with 20 point buy even. Why is this general so fucking stupid?

>>49694445
>tfw DM does 20 point buy, no stat dump below 10 except for racial modifiers

Prioritization is key.

>>49686803
>Whatever happened to the dude who made Way of the Wicked?
Throne of Night happened.

>>49694612
Uh, you will absolutely suffer for having a 20 in your main stat as martial

Be it in saves, or just the fact that you will get rekt with lower hp, or the fact that you will have literally no skills, or >7 cha

>>49694628
Because its not about getting 18 as a martial, its about having MULTIPLE STATS that are at 16-18 as a martial.

Its easy to crank any stat to 20 in 20pb, but the difference is that for Martials that will cripple them, where for full casters ITS LITERALLY THE BEST POSSIBLE CHOICE.

>>49694652
You said 18 not 20, unless your referring to pre modifiers.

16 +2 racial to relevant stat is an EASY 18.
>ITS LITERALLY THE BEST POSSIBLE CHOICE.
This is a meme.

>>49694652
>>7 cha
>implying anyone but waifu faggots suffer from 7 charisma.

>>49694671
Its not a meme

Give me a reason why a Wizard should ever prioritize any stat but int.

>>49694628
Because you still need a secondary stat depending on your class and Con. Casters only need one 18 and rest could be very well 10s.

>>49694628
>>49694612
This, my monk with 18 Str and 12 in Con, Dex and Wis did more than fine for the first 10 seconds before combat, died instantly though.

>>49694688
Saves, AC, Iniativie
Ranged touch attacks
Not expeneding resources just to carry their own junk
Hit points
Normal touch attacks

>>49694689
Apparently people don't see how a 32pb might benefit a character that would really like to put points into stats like STR/DEX/CON/WIS and shit maybe even some INT a lot more than a character that just needs INT

>>49694709
Spells.

Oh look INT gives him all of those cause of spells

Spells.

>>49694716
>Not expeneding resources just to carry their own junk
And every wizard doesn't have acess to every spell at level fucking 1. And for everything their stats cover, that's one more spell they can use towards something more effective.

>>49694726
They have access to spells that let them trivialize entire combat encounters at level 1.

>>49694243
>My experiences with online games went from incredible horrible to even worse
My experiences with online games are that I need writing skills high enough to earn decent money on patreon or whatever to be accepted into them.

>>49694709
>AC
Spells
>Initiative
Familiar, spells
>My own junk
I buy a mule
>Hit points
Only matter if they touch me
>Normal touch attacks
Why would I want to be an evo wizard?

>>49694735
>let them trivialize entire combat encounters at level 1.

Name them.

>>49694741
>your mule gets eaten/stolen/etc while you were in the dungeon
>AC
>Spells
14 AC is totally going to save you
>hit points

>the enemy gets the drop on you
>the enemy blinks next to you
>archers
>other spells that target reflex

>>49694764
>sleep
>color spray

>>49694652
> >7 cha
My current character has 5 charisma. I'm almost sure that psionic Empowered Ego Whip will be the thirst thing she meets.

>>49694735
And 2 handed power attacker in a breastplate will trivialize an encounter with a single attack action.

>>49694764
Color Spray comes to mind, as does Sleep. There's other ones that are less general (grease is the bane of single enemies with a weapon), but a level 1 wizard can quite literally cast 1 spell and make an encounter trivial.

>>49694785
isn't that fun

>>49694801
No, he won't. Because the encounter is like 5 goblins. He can only kill one.

>>49694801
I wish, I play those, even with PA and Cleave, literally never ended a low level encounter conscious, and never trivialize any encounter. And the GM always uses CR monsters of our level (1pp only though).

>>49694822
>, but a level 1 wizard can quite literally cast 1 spell and make an encounter trivial.
And that has nothing to do with stats


Your Mary sue fighter is still killing just as many enemies at level 1 as one on 25 point buy.

>>49694834
>literally never ended a low level encounter conscious

What the fuck are you playing

>>49694850
Yes, but he's also able to stay relevant longer into the campaign because quite simply, he needs the stats more

Its a rising tide raises all ships thing, and a 32pb character is not a 'mary sue'

>>49694878
First levels of PF are pretty gritty even with 18 AC and dealing 18 damage per hit.

>>49694879
If a fighter falls into irrelevance it isn't because of 25 vs 32 point buy.

>>49694905
having a few extra levels of being able to keep up in combat, and having more skills outside of it, does in fact help

The mechanics of the game matter, a fighter is significantly better equipped for a campaign with 32pb, while a wizard is only slightly better

>>49694900
I've played level 1 fighters and brawlers all the time with DSP content and never went down.

I've played plenty of casters that got knocked out at level 1 though. /pfg/ has REALLY bizarre expectations about how the game is actually played when dice hit the table.

>>49694922
>having a few extra levels of being able to keep up in combat, and having more skills outside of it, does in fact help

Not really. You're just rocket tagging things slightly harder.

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>>49694905
>If a fighter falls into irrelevance it isn't because of 25 vs 32 point buy.
Yeah, its because he's playing Pathfinder

>>49694925
Its called rustydagger shanktown for a reason anon.

>There are people who unironically believe a martial needs a 20 in strength at level 1 or 4 to be relevant

Nigga that's 7 points for a middling increase to attack and damage, literally a +1 increase. You could raise a stat to 15 with that kind of PB.

>>49694945
You gotta do your job well

A fighter with a 14 in a bunch of stats is less good at his job than one with an 18 in strength.

>>49694964
Yes but the difference between 14 and 18 is different than one between 18 and 20.

>hurr durr wizards also need other stats!
Of fucking course they do in rusty dagger shanktown. The problem with this logic is twofold
>rusty dagger shanktown is as irrelevant a metric as level 20, because levels 1-3 are as fucked as ~14+
>everyone sucks horse cocks in rusty dagger shanktown. That barbarian might seem big and bad when he cleaves a goblin in half, but then the other two goblins rip him a new asshole because damage outstrips health by a wide margin at this level.

A wizard only needs intelligence, with a positive constitution and dexterity score being bonuses. He doesn't need to be persuasive (spells), he doesn't need to be strong (spells), he doesn't need to be bulky (spells).

>>49694945
A pure 1pp martial has three relevant stats. If they're going to have exactly one job they better fucking be the best at their job.

>>49694982

16+2 12 16 10 13 10 is what I tend to do for martials and I never run into problems.

So I'm playing in a gestalt game and was pondering about building a backup character in case my character who I've been rolling 1s on the HP every level kicks the bucket.

Apparently everything in PoW is offered as is, and the only oddity to the gestalt is that you pick a pair of classes and those are the only ones you can take gestalt levels in, prestige classes and whatnot do not level as gestalt.

With all that said, can I get some Harbinger advice for someone who's never played a kung fu fightan magic class?

Here's the best explanation of why the more points in the PB, the better off Martial characters are.

This is a legitimate statline a wizard can roll in 15 PB

10,10,10,18,10,8

You'll notice, that's not a godawful statline for a wizard. Thats playable.

Show me a 15pb fighter and tell me its got a good statline.

>>49694996
Like I said earlier in the thread, you can build a viable to good character with 20 PB. The issue is stat parity between MAD and SAD

>>49694996
Try monk
Try rogue
Try ranger

>>49694982
Even at level 5 a wizard isn't going to have enough shit to deal with every single thing that drops his way if he has 20 int.

>>49695010
We aren't arguing 15 point buy. We're arguing 25 point buy vs 32 point buy.

>>49694925
/pfg/ is filled with academics and intellectuals. It's all theory about how things "SHOULD BE" but like you I'm convinced that no one here actually has played the game.

>>49695019
Invisibility. There, one spell, nobody can even fucking touch him now.

>>49695029
But this is the point i'm making

You can see how a higher point buy benefits MAD classes a lot more than SAD classes.

>>49694982
>>49694964

A fighter at level 1 with a greatsword and 18 str is doing +5 to-hit with 2d6+6, a fighter at level 1 with a greatsword and 20 str is doing +6 to-hit and 2d6+7.

That +1 to damage and to-hit is *not* worth the 7 points it costs to get it, that's a huge waste of resources with minimal return that is better spent on "fun" stats or things to raise your meatiness or intelligence.

>all these people talking pointbuy
While it may be better for balanced characters on the same playing field, my group prefers instead rolled stats, but with a free 18 in any one stat.
Plus we already know that caster disparity is a problem, so we either only stick to 6th level casters, or we just build our casters thematically to drop their tier effectiveness. Plus the DM is lenient about awarding roleplay.

So far its worked for us, since we know how the system is borked and are able to watch eachother and help eachother optomize within reason.

>>49695030
>No one else ever plays this but ME! Therefore I don't have to listen to anyone!
quit being delusional anon.

>>49695067
Ok now compare them at level 11.

Little advantages in stats add up big in pathfinder.

>>49695017
Human Ranger
>25 points
Str: 18, Dex 16, Con 14 Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
By the time 3rd level spells become relavent you most likely will ave a buff to your Wis score through items.
>Rouge
Human Unchained Rogue
18 Dex, 14 con. Do whatever you fucking want with the rest. You are set.
>Human Unchained Monk
16 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 16 Wisdom, 8 charisma.

>>49695078
>Ok now compare them at level 11.

That +1 bonus will still be a +1 bonus, and at the end of the day a player will more than likely want the even-numbered stat-boosting items than the odds since, surprise surprise, that 1.5x gets the most out of even modifiers.

I have literally never ran into a wall where I felt useless with a base 18 Strength beyond level 10.

>>49695046
And I'm saying 32 is excessive and doesn't really help people. It's just inflating the numbers for the sake of inflating them.

>>49695108
a +1 bonus spread over more attacks means more attacks that are more likely to hit, and those attacks will do +1 damage

Over a combat this can mean getting that one more attack to hit that actually matters, or dealing that few more damage to the enemy that you need

>>49695103
>10 int on all of these

Great. A fighter and a Monk with 2 skills each

Hope they don't even have to climb or swim.

>>49695130
Human
Try 3, for the fighter assuming he doesn't go Lore Warden. Then it's 5.
And unchained monk has 4 skill points a level, +1 from being human. So that is also 5.

Try again.

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>>49695111

>He's not a number size queen
>He doesn't only feel fulfilled when he's got double digits of modifiers in his hands

>>49695148
>you have to be a human and take this specific archetype and then 25pb is ok

>>49695075
Sure sounds like /pfg/ if you ask me, but whatever.

>>49695158
>25pb is ok
It is fucking great, you entitled baby.
>his specific archetype
What the FUCK are you playing an un archetyped fighter? Again, it's not 25 pointbuy fucking you over in that case.

And having 12 int to toss at in is basically the same as being human anyway.

>>49695191
who said unarchetyped? Maybe I don't want to play a Lore Warden you retard

Maybe I don't want to be a fucking human either because HUMANS ARE FUCKING BORING FUCKS.

>>49695211
>HUMANS ARE FUCKING BORING FUCKS.
No they aren't.

Play fucking exalted if you want your plane touched elemental kin fluffy tale nonsense.

>>49695222
What if I just want to play a Dorf then. Or a fucking half-orc

Guess i'm just fucked then aren't i?

>>49695239
Stop playing mary sue shit

>>49695250
Here's your (you)

>>49695239
Not really. Again, if you play there are only so many "good" fighter archtypes. And regardless you aren't going to be a master of versatility as a fighter even with a smattering of extra int.


But fine then. We'll play your game you little bitch. Dwarf or Half orc. Give me an archetype.

I come here to feel better about myself. Thank you, /pfg/.

>>49695250
>mary sue shit
>not the humans who are SOOOO good at everything, have no downsides, and who's whole fluff is that they are super adaptable enough to be the best at everything forever, and get both bonus feats and tons of skill bonuses
No anon, Humans are the Sues of 3.PF, only being slightly threatened by Aasimar, and that one underground waifu race Jacobs made.

>>49695239
>+1 Skill point is totally fucking me and ruining my character guise
????

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>>49695298

I think the lesson we can learn here is staring too long into the abyss of high-level, high-generation play will eventually ruin you to anything else.

>>49695285
>nly being slightly threatened by Aasimar
Try kitsune
Try evlves
Try half-elves
Try samsara
Try almost everything in Bloodforge
Try almost every race DSP shits out, seriously those guys should be barred from making races.

>>49695261
its irrelevant, the point is that having 2 skill points is not in fact, enough.

>>49695298
>you can only play Human Lore Warden Fighters if you want your fighter to have any use outside of combat faggot.