Pathfinder General - /pfg/

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Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/iYhDNSTq

Psionics Augmented: Psychic Warriors playtest: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dX4UYdtwTQKhY71Q45IHLtcu193zq1ZO5jHQ5_PnTl8/edit

Bloodforge: Infusions playtest: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GvwMclLSw15slYI7D5xLdjMzr-Nau92hNha9Sx0LOk4/edit

DSP's Forrest started a patreon for her own 3pp company: https://www.patreon.com/forrestfirestudios

Don't be a jerk.

>>49676227
I want to play a cute halfling necromancer/golem maker with the doll eyes trait, an Attic Whisperer companion and a dozen soulbound dolls.

How many of you want Simple Initiating Templates for monsters, like the Simple Class Templates? So you can make a Warder Bugbear, or a Warlord Pit Fiend, or even something outrageous like a Stalker Otyugh? I've already got the Warder Template up as a proof of concept

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Nv3Bs7lWY5QYnhwMBipFgw8OcrL1lsvM91SRMxNF41c/edit

Anybody have ideas for the Stalker Template? I was thinking of a ki pool, scaling deadly strike damage, the Stalker's dodge bonus, and combat insight? I'd like some input on this, if possible

>>49676275
We had this argument last thread, nobody except a few of you retards wants a cluttered-as-hell OP.

>>49676318
>3 more lines
>cluttered

>>49676318
I want the full OP, this small one doesn't tell me that there's playtest going on, about the patreon, or anything else. It's not even cluttered.

>>49676318
I'm fine with the playtests, but we don't need a persistent ad for a non-temporary patreon.

Talk about her work will be advertisement enough, not to mention she keeps us abreast of how things are going anyway.

>>49676346
Forrest explicitly said she didn't think the patreon needed to be there in the last thread.

>>49676365
>I'm fine with the playtests, but we don't need a persistent ad for a non-temporary patreon.
Well that's true, I don't think it's too big of a deal to keep it up for a bit for new patreons. Maybe two weeks?

>>49676346
Why do we need a fucking patreon link in the OP.

Forrest does good stuff, I like her stuff. But she can shill her patreon herself.

>>49676365
>abreast

hehe

>>49676394
Fine, but why were the playtest cut? Those kind of need to be up to have any value or else there's no reason to post them here.

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How do you lads get out of the funk that is, "I can't type a single descriptive sentence without it reading like the stream-of-consciousness from a particularly intelligent baboon?"

>>49676405
Drugs and hookers

>>49676399
Its been there for like a month hasnt it? Or have I just lost my flimsy perception of time?

>>49676417
It has been there for a while I think, but I'm not sure.

>>49676417
I don't think so? Though to be honest I'm bad with time tracking. I can check when I first signed up. 9/21... hmm, yeah that's about two weeks.

>>49676413

I've tried alcohol and Red Bull, both of them don't work, and the buzz of dopamine I get after sex just makes my focusing worse.

Do I just have to sit down and read a book for a while?

>>49676404
The playtests haven't been updated in weeks and whenever an update does happen Gareth or EnJolly typically post about it in all /pfg/ threads for a few days to keep eyeballs on it. If the playtests matter so much, put them in the pastebin where they belong.

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>>49676465
All of those at the same time! That'll be good for writing!

>>49676496

Dammit anon I'm not Hemingway! I can't just down an absinthe and get a blowjob while writing out stanzas like some Parisian expat prick!

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>>49676519
Sure you can; I believe in you!

>>49676405
Stop reading American comics.

>>49676551

I'll do it! I believe in the one that believes in me! I've got some things to buy and people to call, but before the night is through I will get this character finished!

>>49676482
Personally, I'd like to see the playtest in the OP. It's a lot easier for me to point people to the playtest that I run, and it's easy to show when it's over by having it simply removed from the OP.

>>49676576
I think it's different when you're constantly updating it.

It makes more sense to put active homebrew than dormant playtests IMO

>>49676465
>implying anyone here has sex.

>>49676641
I've been fucked before!
That's what it's called when you have a shitty DM, right?

>>49676653
If that's getting fucked, call me the village bicycle

>>49676673

You're such a slut, anon.

>>49676405
Outlines. Do outlines. It seriously helps. Organizes your thoughts in the best way.

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>>49676687
O-only for you, Anon.

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>it's a "you roll 3 nat 1's during the only combat that session" episode
>it is also a "you get hit by two max damage crits in one turn" episode

Never give your character(s) names that have anything to do with luck, kids.

>>49677075
What's the name anon?

>>49677075

You feed the universe a straight line, anon...

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>>49676687

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>>49677339
I'M NOT SHAMELESS!

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>>49677418
You are public posting about being a bicycle.

Does anyone have the Divine Anthology pdfs?

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>>49677483
I-it was a misunderstanding!

>>49677165
Character is Feliu. After the dice dicked me over, I had the brass balls to name his animal companion Licia. Both names mean "Lucky", so the dice have been letting me have it.

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Tell me about your animal sidekicks, /pfg/. Companions, familiars, Awakened cohorts, all that good stuff. Did the GM kill them off to be a dick? Did they help save the day? Did they piddle on your sabatons?

>>49677604
I don't get any. I don't want to play additional rounds/characters.

>>49677604
I get a lot of use out of my sage imp.

>>49677514
Yep.

>>49677604

My friend Awoke his Wolf animal companion and made him part of the kingdoms counsel.

>>49677812
Anything worth while? Cool archetypes or feats?

>>49677604
My first experience with tabletop rpgs back in highschool was 3.5. I made a Druid, I think. My bird died in the first round of combat.

I didn't come back to tabletops for a few years.

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>>49676072

That was how Thay was founded.

>>49677604
On the one hand, I'd love to play a buddy class.

On the other hand, I am absolutely terrible at it.

This is probably because I have never had a high-maintenance pet. Fish and hamsters do not exactly require lots of space or long walks outside.

>>49677604
Charlemagne the wallaby is going strong

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>>49676227

Hey /pfg/!

I'm designing a nemesis for my group. He's a martial fighter with an inborn ability to control space. (To add, subtract and otherwise move space.)

I'm gonna work so he has a bag of "Tricks" he can pull off, so each trick has a cool down before he can do it again.

What kind of tricks can you think of for this ability?

Delete space to cause the target to teleport to you or you to the target.
Add space to create distance
Manipulate space to redirect an attack to another source.
Create a portal so something becomes bigger or smaller on the exit.

>>49678053
That's dumb as fuck and makes no sense

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Sup, /pfg/
Can I get some more feedback and input on my homebrew class, the Empyreus?
Its designed to be a well-rounded class capable of covering offense and support with a few crowd control tricks.

Update: I now included 3 new archetypes
The Discordant is a more crowd control and offense oriented archetype
The Harmonist is a more support and healing oriented archetype
The War Weaver changes it to a Path of War class

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xQMlB45-UFEWCB2ffqoBUMhR-t4afSXLk29fgTJNVyw/edit?usp=sharing

>>49678053
shouldn't you and your group play M&M instead?

>>49678064
You're just being boring
>>49678076
Eh, just looking to do something special/different. Not really asking for rules just inspiration.

>>49678076
>implying anyone plays M&M
>implying anon isn't resorting to Pathfinder for the sole reason that no one in his group is willing to branch out

I need to find a group to play with while i GM

Were scans of Legacy of Dragons ever shared here?

>>49678110
>>implying anon isn't resorting to Pathfinder for the sole reason that no one in his group is willing to branch out

r-right in the feels...

>>49678053
You're almost certainly building your enemy in a way that isn't friendly to the system. But I admit I've wanted to play with something similar before, as fruitless as implementing it may be.
>A battlefield manipulator altering the way gridpoints connect
>Warp a straight set of squares so that attempting to move along them puts you at the end of a segment after just one step
>Defensively warp square around you to contain densely packed space, not just for enemies to walk through to reach you, but for spell and ranged weapon range as well
>Set a square to redirect creatures or objects attempting to move through it
I think that keeping spacial manipulation abilities basic could allow them to be codified in an easy-to-represent way on the battlefield.

>>49676305
I'm interested in the idea, at least. Have you looked into how the numbers work out? Intuitively at least +3 CR for 4th level maneuvers doesn't seem like a great deal.

>>49676482
>If the playtests matter so much, put them in the pastebin where they belong.

No-one opens the pastebin unless they're after something specific.

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>>49678372

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What class are Kitsune best at?

>>49678501
Slut

>>49678501
bard

>>49678511
>>49678534
Redundancy. Bardadin as well.

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>>49678564
bard-a-dins are PURE

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>>49678572
Pure lewd, maybe.

>>49678511
Is that a type of ninja?

>>49678501
Mesmerist.

>>49678501
Being a barbarian.

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>>49678787
Is that better than sorcerer?

>>49678930

What exactly do you want for Kitsune to do like as a general idea/concept. Win the hearts and minds of everyone? To blast everyone to kingdom kong with devastating spells?

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No 3pp. 3rd level start of the game, 5th level end of the game.

Human Archer. So far I like 2nd version more, but can I do better number than this?

1) Archeologist Bard 1 \ Zen Archer 2
AC: 18. Skill points: 17
Unbuffed. Attack: +6 \\ Damage: 1d8+2
Semi-buffed. Attack: +6 \\ Damage: 1d8+3 ..("arcane strike", unlimited, swift to activate)
Buffed. Attack: +8 \\ Damage: 1d8+5 ..("arcane strike+luck", 21 rounds per day)
<balanced approach>

2) Slayer 2 \ Weapon Master Fighter 1
AC: 18. Skill points: 17
Unbuffed. Attack: +8 \\ Damage: 1d8+2
Semi-buffed. Attack: +9 \\ Damage: 1d8+3 ..("studied target", unlimited, move to activate, no act.after that)
<better combat, slightly worse utility>

>>49678959
To play up the shapeshifter angle and be able to walk into anywhere with someone else's face, but to also have the power to blow everything up once inside.

>>49678979

Then you don't want a Mesmerist. They aren't really that good at blowing everything up. They could totally get another guy to do that through stuff like a hypnotic suggestion.

If you are wanting to do the classic thing of Cross-Blood+Wildblood into a Draconic Elemental (Primal), then you should also at 1st level Blood Havoc (a bloodline mutation) that basically makes your blasting deal "+3 damage per die rolled".

>>49678975
I mean either works fine if you want to play an archer, you're only going to 5th level so

Since I can't find the Psionics Augmented Soulknives pdfs beyond the first, can anyone tell me if Form Astral Armor was changed from the playtest?

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>>49679109
Thanks. Actually, I figured one more option. But this one has a problem - I already played melee inquisitor relatively recently.

3) Sanctified S.Inquisitor 3
AC: 18. Skill points: 21
Unbuffed. Attack: +6 \\ Damage: 1d8+2
Semi-buffed. Attack: +7 \\ Damage: 1d8+3 ..("studied target", unlimited, move to activate, no act.after that)
Buffed. Attack: +9 \\ Damage: 1d8+5 ..("studied target+divine favor", 4 encounters [minutes] per day)
<without Deadly Aim, but with Friendly Fire Maneuvers>

>>49679179
I mean, it depends on if you really car about playing inquisitor again or not

You might also want to look at Eldrich Archer Magus

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>>49679194
I counted some numbers of your suggestion. Overall, this version seems weaker than Inquisitor or Slayer. But better than Archeologist version, thanks to the Swamp's Grasp hex - while very limited, this battlefield control is, probably, useful for any archer. With the cost of the standard action, sadly.
Also, his pseudo-"rapid shot" ability limits him to 30 ft shots (Frost Ray and Acid Splash are 25+5/2)

4) (Eldritch Archer + Hexcrafter) Magus 3
AC: 18. Skill points: 9
Unbuffed. Attack: +6 \\ Damage: 1d8+2
Semi-buffed. Attack: +6 \\ Damage: 1d8+3 ..("arcane strike", unlimited, swift to activate)
Buffed. Attack: +7 \\ Damage: 1d8+4 ..("Arcane Pool + arcane strike", 2 encounters [minutes] per day)
"Nova". Attack: +7 \\ Damage: 1d8+4+3d6 ..("pool+strike+snowball", 4 attacks per day)
<No Deadly Aim. Hex: Swamp's Grasp>

>>49678449
These maneuvers are already in addition to the basic abilities of the monster. 4th-level maneuvers are decent, and a monster doesn't have to rely solely on them. They do get significant PC-melting power, though.

I'm going to be playing a shotgun-wielding cavalier with musketeer and luring cavalier archetypes in a wild west pathfinder game, /pfg/! (The GM ok'd replacing the musket feats with a shotgun)

What's a good order to pick?

1pp stuff preferred and 3rd level, to give further information.

>>49679489
For making a comparison with the least variables, lets look at some of the dragons.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/dragons/dragon/chromatic-blue/blue-dragon-young-adult vs http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/dragons/dragon/chromatic-blue/blue-dragon-mature-adult

The mature adult gets: +60 HP, +6 AC, DR 10 instead of 5(though the DR is barely relevant). Its attack bonus goes up by +6, it deals more damage, it's ability scores go up by an average of +2, and it gains access to 2nd and 3rd level spells. How well would 4th level maneuvers compensate for all of this?

>>49678501
Kitsune make pretty fantastic beguilers.

>>49679605
Not the same anon, but off the top of my head, were I that dragon...

E.Flux and Riven Hourglass, with one of my feats swapped for Elemental Focus (-HD in this case to resistances against Electrical, and at 10+levels or HD immunity to electrical becomes half damage instead). This gives me access to E.Flux stance which we'll use in Air for +4 dodge, +4 initiative, +2d6 electrical to all attacks, Temporal Body Adjustment (a real lifesaver against the wizards in the party), and the rest mostly counters and/or boosts: I'd be a goddamn idiot not to full attack, but shit like "do a single melee attack as a swift action" would put some bite in my other bite. I also have a few more spell slots since haste is now on a boost, not that that actually matters balancewise, but fuck the book-keeping so yay.

How would one make an inventor in pathfinder

As in all this character does is tinker with shit and makes weird weapons out of all of it

>>49679790
High int, craft weapon skill and a good kmowledge of the custom weapon creation table.

>>49679790
Wizard

What can a level 4 cleric do to win an arena battle against a single opponent? I want to pit a magus against him but this cleric might simply not have anything to pull out the win. I mean I guess the magus could be level 1 with Toughness but I'd rather not fudge too badly. I might make him level 2 or 3, but he's already shown Shocking Grasp.

>>49679790

Artisan for third party, Alchemist if first.

>>49679879
Sorry, I can't understand your request.
But if you're talking about hypothetical cleric on arena and do not want to end fight with uninteresting save-or-die spell, than, I think, summons are your best bet. With Divine Strategist, Dark Tapestry subdomain and Augment Summoning both parties will got some action. And fight, probably, will be interesting to look at. Human with Imp.Initiative and [+2 initiative] trait is preferable.
If this cleric is already created, than you, probably, should share his sheet with us

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What's the most interesting social encounter challenge you've had?

One that didn't involve fighting or the threat of violence, and was somehow about interacting with people in some way.

Was it interesting because they were a well-written NPC, or was there something unique about the situation or goal?

I'm new to Pathfinder and I wanted to ask is there a rapid shot but for melee attacks? I have a game soon.

>>49680446
Two-Weapon Fighting.
But this line isn't very good. You'd be better with two-handed weapons (esp with Power Attack + Furious Focus)

>>49680463
Why isn't there rapid shot for melee attacks?

>>49680481
Because god hates Martials

There actually is rapid shot for melee attacks.. Its Flurry of Blows, and only monks/unchained monks/Brawlers/a few archetypes can do it

>>49680481
I told you - there is. In saome way.You can take Two-Weapon Fighting with, let's say, Longsword + Shortsword. And get 2 attacks as a full-round action with -2 to hit. Kinda like Rapid Shot.

>>49680233
>What's the most interesting social encounter challenge you've had?

I spent three minutes talking/flirting with the DM over voice to get a servant girl to join me in a public bath.

The DM seemed to like it, she had me roll a pregnancy check and wanted to do more of those encounters later.

>>49680516
My DM said melee users are simple and strong, and he recommended me a fighter, should I switch to monk?

>>49680520
Oh OK.
Why did you say the line isn't good?

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I said I wanted to make a Cleric and the DM made me take the Sacred Geometry feat. How do I best punish the rest of the party for this injustice he has committed?

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>>49676227
CHILDREN YOU SAY?

>>49680546
>simple and strong

he is a liar.

>>49680556
Slowly go through the math every time.

>>49680546
> Why did you say the line isn't good?
You'll invest more resources (feats, money), but still will deal less damage than Two-Handed Fighter most of the time.

> My DM said melee users are simple and strong
Simple - yes.
But "strong" is debatable. They aren't bad in non-optimized party at low levels (1-6). Later they're overshadowed by spellcasters.

> he recommended me a fighter, should I switch to monk?
I do not think so. What character do you want? Can you use d20pfsrd.com, or you're limited only to some books?

>>49680608
>You'll invest more resources (feats, money), but still will deal less damage than Two-Handed Fighter most of the time.
That's not good design.

>Later they're overshadowed by spellcasters.
Well we're level 3 so it shouldnt be an issue.

>I do not think so. What character do you want? Can you use d20pfsrd.com, or you're limited only to some books?
I want to be able to do the raiden thing where he slashes really fast in a short window after moving.

>>49680546
>>49680608
Oh, and if you know who else will be in your party - tell me please, too

>>49680625
> That's not good design.
Sad but true.

> I want to be able to do the raiden thing where he slashes really fast in a short window after moving.
I'm sorry, I don't understand. If this is media reference - specify, please.

>>49680627
I'm not sure, but there's a guy who's a cleric, a arcanist (?), and another guy who's using something called a harbinger? There's also a last guy which I don't really know.

I'm not sure.

>>49680654
Metal Gear Rising.

>>49680665
>harbinger
Maybe It's a "Path of War" (3rd party book) class? I'd strongly advise you to ask your GM - do Path of War allowed or not. If yes - it would be better for you to use Path of War too.
You see, since martial characters are generally worse than spellcasters in Pathfinder, Path of War was created, as an attempt to reduce the gap. But if one character would play PoW class, he'll overshadow regular fighter in anyway.
So, if PoW allowed - ask GM and tell us. We'll help you to construct PoW character too. It's slightly less simple character than fighter or monk, but it's rewarding.

> Metal Gear Rising
As I thought, I'm not familiar with it.

>>49680731

It's called "Zandatsu."

>>49680731
I really don't want to learn any sub-systems...

>>49680778
Why

And if you don't want to learn subsystems then don't play pathfinder.

>>49680778
For what it's worth, Path of War tends to play a lot like a somewhat simplified, faster-paced Wizard. You ready maneuvers (which have a level of 1-9) and expend them, before regaining them in a way dependent on your class. The main difference is that you have much more limited slots with no level requirements (you'd just have 5 Readied Maneuvers of any level rather than 3 1s, 1 2, and unlimited cantrips), and... well, the fluff is 'hitting people with swords in interesting ways' instead of magic.

Sometimes it is magic, though. But hey, there's also swords.

>>49680790
The DM said RP is more important than combat anyways

Also it's really stupid if I had to learn a homebrew of all things just to keep up

>>49680823
Everyone says that, doesn't mean combat can be fun.
>Also it's really stupid if I had to learn a homebrew of all things just to keep up
Why, you're already playing something that's essentially ascended home brew.

>>49680823
It's published third party, not homebrew.

>>49680778
I'm - >>49680654

>Zandatsu
So, I found and watched a video. Basicaly, it looks like two attacks as a standard action (with optional move before).
You know, with Path of War you can do that at 3rd level (Swift Claws maneuver, for example). Without - no.

>>49680848
Isn't every kind of third party just homebrew?

>>49680838
Oh yeah I forget that Pathfinder is just a homebrew 3.5e.

>>49680821
But in the end isn't it just hitting people with swords? How's that different from everyone else?

>>49680869
>But in the end isn't it just hitting people with swords? How's that different from everyone else?
You can hit someone and trip them.

Or make them bleed.

Or hit someone adjacent to them as well

Or attack at range for one attack

Or block a hit for your ally

Fly under your own power, no magic item or wizard needed.

Hit an enemy and send them flying

All without needing 50 quadrillion feats

etc, etc. It adds more options and variety to your attacks so you have more decisions and things do in combat besides
>I move, I attack
>I full attack

>>49680915
That sounds stupidly powerful.

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>Tfw playing a necromancer and making metal-clad skeletons
>realizing you accidentally created not-necrons in your setting
>tfw Realizing they are too good at murder
>my characters face when it can only end horribly
My characters only regret will have been not making even more of them when it eventually bites him and the party in the ass

>>49680920
As stupidly powerful as "I stop time, place multiple fireballs where the enemies are, walk away, resume time, and watch them instantly die"

or

"I mind control an enemy."

or

"I literally disintegrate an enemy"

>>49680869
I'm sorry, I know it looks aren't very good - you come here for an advice on feat, and got bunch of people suggesting you different class. But as I said here - >>49680864 , with PoW, if it is allowed, you can achieve what you wanted. It's not just "I hit him", your combat will be not just more effective - it will be more cinematic.

But if you don't want - it's your right. We'll be able to make you a non-PoW character too? I suppose. Just not with Zandatsu. Probably, someone with two-handed sword and power attack. He'll make only one attack per round but that attack will hurt anyway.

>>49680920
The damage is a bit high, but other than that not really?

Why does it sound "stupidly powerful" do you think martial should have no in combat versatility and become useless the MOMENT they encounter something outside their specialty?

>>49680940
They can do that at level 3?

>>49680941
The fourth guy is recommending me something called Spheres of Power though. How's that? Is that simpler than Paths of War?

>>49680955
No at level 3 they can just literally end an encounter by casting one spell.

>>49680940
>implying blasting is good
A better example is "I summon an Efreet and force it to grant me dozens of wishes"

I create an entire pocket dimension.

"I can solve world hunger by level 3"

"I can ask magic any question and get an answer"

"I can make a ton of obedient clones of any organism I encounter"

>>49680869
>Isn't every kind of third party just homebrew?

Sure, in the same way Pathfinder is just Bullmahn's houserules for 3.5

>>49680941
Basically, yeah. It's more options - I, personally, get bored out of my mind playing melee whose only options are combat maneuvers and full attacks.

>>49680955
Spheres of Power is an alternate magical system without spell slots, where you choose a number of Spheres (a general thematic and mechanical grouping of abilities, such as the Light sphere granting you the ability to cause a variety of helpful or harmful Glow effects). You get a very limited number of Spell Points per day, but many of your abilities can be used without spending spell points - spending a spell point, however, results in a much more powerful effect. It's weaker than normal spellcasters, but in the case of Wizards and Clerics, that's not really a bad thing. (In the case of Paladins and Rangers...)

>>49680955
>Spheres of Power though. How's that? Is that simpler than Paths of War?
Haven't read about them in depth. Wait for a more knowledgeable anon. But PoW isn't hard, I think.

>>49680955
A path of war class can't do half of the stuff I listed at level 3 either.

This is something you could do at level 3
>By watching the form of the enemy attacking him, the disciple may expertly twist and dodge way from the attack while making an attack on his foe in return. The initiator makes an opposed Acrobatics check against the target's attack roll. If successful, the disciple evades and negates his foe's attack and may make an immediate counter attack at his full attack bonus.
You can do this once per encounter unless you spend a full round to recover.

>>49681014
Oh wait, fuck you can't that's a level 5, which is 7 ish territory iirc Fuck the PFSRD is busted.
>With a sudden, darting movement the Thrashing Dragon disciple may dodge an attack and protect himself from harm, if perfectly timed. The disciple opposes an enemy's attack roll by making an Acrobatics check. If successful then he successfully evades the attack. If not, he is struck by the blow as normal.
This is a level 2 maneuver that you could do at three.

>>49680955

SoP is okay. It is an alternative to Vanician casting but it has its problems. Iirc weather is broken as fuck and some of the other domains are underwhelming

Reminder that PoW is shit and it only further expands the power gap between casters and martials

>>49681198
wat

>>49681082
Plus half-casters have to suck a dick - it nerfs full casters from t1 to t3, but it hits half-casters just as hard.

>>49681198
???
As... in makes martials WEAKER? Or... are you saying...

ah, nevermind.

>>49681227
Martials deal damage, that's it
Casters can fuck with the fabric of spacetime to do literally anything

Just adding to martials' damage does nothing but increase the disparity between the two

>>49680541
>tfw you're playing a flirty cha character but worried you're actually bad at the whole seduction thing

Pain

>>49681273
PoW doesn't "Just add to damage" it also increases their versatility with abilities such as flight, teleportation and counters. And even if it DID just add damage, adding damage doesn't increase the disparity. At the very worst, anything that buffs martials without also buffing casters merely maintains the disparity.

>>49681273
but thats not what path of war does

And it wouldn't increase the disparity, it would remain static

But it doesn't, because path of war adds utility and makes them more versatile

so it closes the gap.

>>49681273
1) PoW adds not only damage but some effects and non-damage abilities too
2) Adding more options for martials can't "increase disparity". You can insist that it doesn't reduce disparity, but not that it's increases it.

What are some great items for a Rogue?

Beyond just the staples of static numbers, I'm going through books now looking for nifty magical items useful to a Rogue, but I'm wondering if you guys have any recommendations.

>>49681301
>>49681300
>>49681299
Versatility in combat =/= closing the gap between martials and casters

That's why half casters are so good, like Inquisitors. 60% of your spells are for out of combat use

>>49679012
Most of that didn't make sense. Are those 3pp Sorcerer things or something?

>>49681388
it literally helps close the gap.

>>49681388
You insisted that PoW increased gap, don't you?

>>49681366
Cheapo says:
Eyes of the Eagle 2500gp
Handy Haversack 2000gp
Hat of Disguise 1800gp
Quick Runners Shirt 1000gp
Travelers Any Tool 250gp
Rusting Powder 60gp
Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath 5 gp
50 ft of string 1cp

>>49681413
Nope!
>>49681433
Yep, because it just makes casters MORE useless in combat, while simultaneously not adding out of combat options for martials; the area casters shine.

>>49681407
No, it's all 1pp.

Straight Arcane bloodline still a best, blood hovac can just replace your feat at 7th anyway.

>>49681530
>casters
>USELESS IN COMBAT

hahahahhahah

nigga wat

Do Change Shape and Realistic Likeness stack to give +20 to disguise checks?

>>49681014
>You can do this once per encounter unless you spend a full round to recover.
Depends on your class/feats
Victorious recovery
Bushi
Harbinger
Warlord
Mystic
and Zealot
Can all recover without using a full round action.
Also the ones that do use full round actions get bonuses.
Stalker gets ac bonus and can stalker art into concealment, well warder gets extended aoo range and more aoos.

>>49681856
Yes
>Benefit: You can precisely mimic the physical features of any individual you have encountered. When you use your racial change shape ability, you can attempt to take the form of an individual, granting you a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks made to fool others with your impersonation.
>granting you a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise
>A kitsune can assume the appearance of a specific single human form of the same sex. The kitsune always takes this specific form when she uses this ability. A kitsune in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human. Changing shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the kitsune does not adjust her ability scores and can remain in this form indefinitely.
>but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human.
One is racial one is circumstance so they stack.

>>49681053
This is a level 2 spell
>You call upon the powers of unlife to render the subject blinded or deafened, as you choose.
>Duration permanent (D)
This is a level 1 spell
>You respond to an attack by briefly becoming vaporous and insubstantial, allowing the attack to pass harmlessly through you. You gain DR 10/magic against this attack and are immune to any poison, sneak attacks, or critical hit effect from that attack.

You cannot use windy escape against an attack of opportunity you provoked by casting a spell, using a spell-like ability, or using any other magical ability that provokes an attack of opportunity when used.

Are initiators good?
Yes, but casters are too, it definitely helps bring the scales closer.

>>49681388
> 60% of your spells are for out of combat use
Because most out of combat spells are narrative cancer and should be kept away from PC's.

>>49678501
Being an unoriginal meme

What are some ways to refluff Riven Hourglass if you don't want dumb time bullshit?

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>>49681388
>Path of War adds more out of combat versatility to martials, like allowing martials to fly, phase through objects, heal, read minds, etc

>argue that giving martials more out of combat versatility increases the disparity between casters and martials

I don't even know what is going on.

>>49682210
Most of the slowing down enemies would basically be hitting them so hard they need a second.

>>49682210
Your character is very fast and your attacks mangle your enemy's bodies so badly that they are physically slowed or unable to move.

>>49682219
Nice strawman, retard

>>49682219
That's not what was said.

That's what you misconstrued.

That was the issue with the much lauded Trollman's Better Martials - all he did was give them combat bonuses and only minor out of combat utility, which isn't what they need to be comparable to actual casters. But god help you if you actually said he didn't do a wonderful job.

>>49682284
Path of War pretty clearly offers martials more out of combat versatility, so I fail to see how it expands the out of combat discrepancy between martials and casters.

If all maneuvers and stances did was add bonuses to attack and damage that would be one thing. But when they offer you capabilities to expand what you can do outside of combat I fail to see how it increases the martial/caster out of combat disparity.

oneshot campaign tomorrow, 6 players, level 5, base manual only ( no fucking archetypes, no fucking anything else), limited equipment choice.we got plenty of fighters and a rogue already.
possibly only one fight and mostly based on roleplaying, detective shit, we are in a city, entire campaign last one game time day.

i already know that bard with 16 int and 16 cha and a wizard with a crow and 3000 gold in scrolls are the best characters to come in with, but i am no looking at playing this correctly as everyone is looking to have fun and DM expects no powerplaying for me especially.

what are the most memetastic things i can do crunch-wise ( base manual only remember)?
i got already some ideas for characters but what would you think as fun roleplaying wise for such an occasion?

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>>49680864
>>49680941
Actually, you *can* do two attacks as a standard action. Under "Weapon Tricks" in the Two-Weapon Tricks category it has Dual Strike, which requires Double Slice and Improved Vital Strike (so 4 feats total, which a 3rd level Fighter can do easily) and lets you make two attacks as a standard action. Two-Weapon Warrior can also do it, but at 9th level only.

>>49682367
Get your group to play 5e. Holy shit.

Just do it. There is no point whatsoever in playing pathfinder like that.

>>49682377
Improved vital strike requires +11 BAB.

>>49682377
>Improved Vital Strike
>3rd level

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>>49682377
Wait, shit, I'm a dumbass and didn't register the "improved" part of the Vital Strike. That locks it in at level 11 or higher.

>>49682367
>base manual only
>no fucking archetypes, no fucking anything else
Why the fuck are you playing Pathfinder? This is literally the worst way to play the game, barring 3d6 in a line for stats.

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>>49678053
>wanting to be The Hand
>Not Chocolate Disco
laaaaaaame.
Actually, I think C.Disco would be both easier and more fun to do in a grid-system like PF

>>49682450
How would you reposition enemies at range though? It's pretty easy to do it for allies, but I can't see it working for enemies.

>>49682483
Ranged Reposition Manuever using some other stat for CMB?
OR just a whole bunch of forced dimension door or similar effects.

>>49682411
Even regular Vital Strike requires BAB 6.

>>49682377
>>49682411
>>49682530
>Ability requires Improved Vital Strike
>But you can't use that ability to Vital Strike

FOR WHAT PURPOSE

>>49682508
Ranged Reposition you can do I think, but it's limited in its range and C.Disco does way more than that.

For allies I'm thinking a Sensei Monk, since they can use Dim Door through their allies, but for enemies it might require a character to take Ranger traps for the Transpositional trap

>>49682561
Feat tax? You know Paizo damn well loves feat tax on 2WF.

>>49681571
Against PoW martials (and a lot of the time you fight enemies with the ability to cast spells, or NPCs with levels in spell casting classes) a normal caster shits the bed. If a PoW character has the proper counters there is essentially no way to make it fail a save. You're stuck there with your thumbs up your ass unable to effect him. Even worse two of the classes (Warder & Zealot) can extend this (to a degree) to their entire party.

Zealot in particular is bad because of his absurd amounts of defense which essentially makes enemy casters (unless there are more than 2 of them with save DCs high enough you need to worry) entirely ineffective. HP damage doesn't matter nearly as much because of both martyr and creation zealot powers.

A creation zealot can regain his maneuvers as a move action (while buffing), use his standard to attack with ranged maneuvers, use his swift/immediate to defend the party and use his free. It's a level of in combat efficiency that shouldn't be a thing.

>>49681900
>and Zealot
Can do it as a move.

>>49682561
PAIZO BALANCE
MARTIALS UNBALANCE THE GAMEBY THEIR ABSURD DAMAGE OUTPUT

Ok, so here is an important question about the Unchained Gunslinger I think I should ask /pfg/ about.

Blueprints/Contraptions give in and out of combat utility. I have considered making a good number of them simply replicate spells (some do already like one where you put matter in one end and it spits out gruel the other). This is mainly because MOST of the things you want to do both in and out of combat already exist as spells.

What do you want to do in or out of combat that doesn't exist as a spell?

How would you feel about a martial using devices to replicate spells?

>>49682804
Direct replication of spells doesn't make a lot of sense, but having devices the duplicate the effect of spells (perhaps with some differences) sounds good.

>>49682804
I feel like they should duplicate spells but with some twists and hopefully not be something world shattering like your matter to gruel device.

>>49677604
My Skinwalker Ranger (Shapeshifter), Erstagg, has a large wolf named Wuf. He and Wuf are besties: they eat raw meat together, they play together, they wrassle, they argue. Not to mention Wuf has a 23str and will fuck anyone's day up who tries to fuck with me, and vice versa. We give no fucks, we hate evil outsiders, and we're both dumb as rocks

Also the shapeshifter ranger archetype is ASS. Regret 100%

>>49682825
Yes this is more what I'm talking about. The create food/water fun is a box you put inedible things in (garbage/dirt/wood/anything that isn't stone & metal), turn the crank, and out comes food bricks.

Another one is essentially a magic telephone that replicates Contact Other Plane, but with some differences in the consequences & checks.

Another is just a bear trap that deals similar damage to a sneak attack.

Another that is very close to a spell is a tiny mechanical drone that at first perform Animal Messenger, but as you level up can do a few different things (it's small and stealthy and can transmit audio).

>>49682595
Which is not a full round.
Imediate action recovery
Warlord
Harbinger

Free Action Recovery
Bushi
No Action Recovery
Mystic

And then almost all initiators can recover 1 as a standard, but that is usually the worst way to recover.

>>49682842
So the stimulations on the matter -> gruel device are:
>it doesn't do stone/metal (dirt works fine however)
>requires you to be cranking it constantly to work
>only produces so much food a day before the internal mechanisms need to be replenished
>a UC gunslinger can only make a certain number of each contraption as detailed by the contraption's entry (they work similar to alchemist bombs where a little bit of you makes them work)

Is it world shattering because of the possible "I solved world hunger" scenario?

>>49682595
>What is "throwing more than one caster/debuffer at the party"

A lot of the so-called problems in-regards to the Zealot or Harbinger are solved by tossing in a couple more minions that target their weakest aspects; Fortitude saves for Harbinger, Reflex saves for Zealot. A zealot simply cannot Counter his way out of, say, 3 fireballs in a row.

>>49682871
>The create food/water fun is a box you put inedible things in (garbage/dirt/wood/anything that isn't stone & metal), turn the crank, and out comes food bricks.
I'd avoid stuff like this but, but that's mostly because it sounds like a nighmare on world building and I like for classes to try to be as setting friendly as possible which means avoiding stuff like "you can effectively infinite food".

Maybe eating the bricks staves off starvation, but subsisting on them long term leads to stat debuffs/sickness/etc.

>>49682210
Alternate/exotic poisons and drugs to enhance your reaction times or ravage the nervous system of your foes. Works on undead and constructs but only usually lasts 1 turn against/for anyone because "exotic".

>>49682898
>Is it world shattering because of the possible "I solved world hunger" scenario?
Yes, because you can still have a a hell of a lot of gunslingers around.

You need a reason why every single commoner/government doesn't just train to be gunslinger machine and solve world hunger forever.

>>49682909
If it is three weaker casters rather than one stronger caster then proportionally each of them will have lower DCs & caster levels. Also a fireball literally means essentially nothing to a creation zealot who can simply free action heal himself.

I only say this as someone who played a zealot in low/mid/high level play and saw it severely outperform the rest of the party.

>>49682912
I can see that. I mostly want to keep those kinds of devices to a "amount per day" limit. It isn't able to make food all day and requires internally brewed things to be put in (and brewing them takes time/expertise).

Or it could stave off starvation. Either would be fine in all honesty.

>>49682210
Forcing your body to secrete adrenelin and other endorphins, allowing you to enter a sort of zen druggie rage.

>>49682931
The idea would be because it can only make so much food per day. The same reason a cleric with create food & water can't solve world hunger (simply too many mouths and not enough caster levels).

In this case you need to replenish internal chemicals and the like inside the contraption. Brewing the chemicals takes time (many contraptions have limits, and when they stop working they require the gunslinger to tune/brew/etc. to get them working again, which takes an hour. He can do this prep time as many times as he wants per day, but it still takes time).

I could instead put hard limits as well like casters have.

>>49682978
oh

so its just being a martial alchemist then.

>>49683001
Yes to a degree. Some of the contraptions are purely mechanical, some are not. So it depends on whether they are brewing chemicals or retuning mechanisms.

However the UC gunslinger does get an option to get Craft Construct without needing prereqs as well.

Asking since the other guy seemed to get some good answers; what's a good excuse to have Elemental Flux if you're a relatively normal human without specialized training in it?

Is it just getting so angry that your animus manifests itself?

>>49682978
Yeah, that sounds fine

>>49683069
For fire you can just have tubes filled with oil. For the rest it's a bit harder.

>>49683019
Here's my suggestion

The problem with the gunslinger is its lack of options, Gun training also sucks because it only applies to one type of gun, rather than a catagory or the like.

Before you start tacking on new mechanics that don't really fit in the class (you're basically describing a different class entirely at this point, an interesting one, but a different class entirely)

You should look at the Grit/Deeds system and think about reworking it to be more like Rage Powers and Rogue Talents or Ki Powers, those are what really made those unchained classes work.

>>49683069
You're adept at using ki bullshit?

Sorcerous potential?

Psionic potential?

>>49683069
I've seen the whole "angry animus" thing around. Is that set flavor or is it a /pfg/ meme?

>>49683094
>You should look at the Grit/Deeds system and think about reworking it to be more like Rage Powers and Rogue Talents or Ki Powers, those are what really made those unchained classes work.
Ah I've already changed how Deed design works. I have a blurb about it as well.

In design they have become similar to the Vigilante (at least in how their chart looks). Every even level you get to pick a deed and every odd a blueprint.

Deed now have both an active and passive state. The active state you spend git points on, and the passive you get as long as you have at least one grit point. An example would be the following:

Quick Draw (Ex):
Active: The Gunslinger may spend 2 grit points as part of his initiative check to gain an additional +2 bonus. This bonus increases to +4 at 9th level and +6 at 17th level.
Passive: The Gunslinger gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks. Furthermore, if his hands are free and unrestrained, and the firearm is not hidden, the Gunslinger can draw a single firearm as part of the initiative check.

This is an updated version of Gunslinger's Initiative.

Another way they have changed it to be long lists like the other class's "talent" abilities.

In my design I have made both the UC Fighter and UC Cavalier work similarly with lists of choices rather than static features.

>>49683108
Never seen Dragon Ball, huh?

>>49683155
But that's more Ki/Chi-like, not literal anger fueled abilities like a certain greek man.

>>49683108
>not attacking your foes with your burning passion
>>49683192
>But that's more Ki/Chi-like
And animus is basically ki by another name.

>>49683069
A little bit of wizardly or sorcerous training in your past that you didn't really stick with, but still know just enough to put up an Elemental Shield or coat your weapon in fire.

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>>49683069

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The more I hear /pfg/ discuss Path of War the more I put off actually reading it. It sounds like such cartoonish, special-snowflake, Exalted type shit.

The good old fighter is my favourite archetype, I just like the idea of being a dude who's tough and skilled with weapons, getting through encounters with grit, skill and preparation. I don't want to play a character that feels like he's out of an anime.

I know the power discrepancy and I know PoW is a solution, it's just not a solution I like.

>>49683287
>It sounds like such cartoonish, special-snowflake, Exalted type shit.
So just avoid the supernatural disciplines if it bugs you that fucking much. I dislike most of the SU disciplines too.

>>49676227
I'll be playing a campaign at my college; DM said I have 300 gp to buy starting equipment/gear. What can I buy for 150 gp that's relatively light and can be used to light things on fire?

>>49683287
>The good old fighter is my favourite archetype, I just like the idea of being a dude who's tough and skilled with weapons, getting through encounters with grit, skill and preparation.

You can do that with PoW as long as you stay away from supernatural disciplines, though.

>>49683307
>>49683318
Well, that's encouraging. Alright.

>>49683318
But none of the EX disciplines have versatility aside from Fools Errand.

>>49683315
*and that isn't from third-party material

>>49683315
Something consumable or something permanent?

A Traveler's Anytool can probably make one of those sparking tools.

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>>49683287
>I don't want to play a character that feels like he's out of an anime
>he says as he posts a ridiculous anime character
>in the pathfinder general

Something something "why are you even playing pathfinder" followed by I too am getting kind of sick of "JUST USE POW" getting screamed every thread

>>49683287
A lot of the problem is that the supernatural disciplines get more attention than the mundane ones. The supernatural shit includes things like stopping time, throwing lightning bolts, teleporting in front of a friend, and so on. The mundane options have "street-level supers" things like throwing your shield and having it frisbee back, impaling three dudes at once on a spear, hit-and-run tactics, and so on.

>>49683287
Really path of war is only anime if you make anime. Even the SU. Just state that discipline names and stuff aren't in universe concepts.

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>>49683287

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>>49683287
You could always use my shitty homebrew.

>>49683365
>"why are you even playing pathfinder"
This is a valid fucking question when someone comes in saying I'm playing 20 point buy, core rulebook only, no archetypes. There is no reason, NOT ONE, to play pathfinder like this.

You are literally playing to every fucking weakness this shit games has and are better off doing something else.
>I too am getting kind of sick of "JUST USE POW" getting screamed every thread
People will stop screaming that when fun martial classes come out that cover a myriad of concepts and characters.

>>49683368
Of course they are, it's much much easier to solve issues and fluff them in a supernatural manner. That's one of the issues of the caster/martial divide, the limits of non-magical options before they become too magical.

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>>49683365
There's nothing inherently 'anime' about Pathfinder. This thread just focuses on the subsystems and homebrews that are aimed at weeaboos.

>>49683357
Either/or. I already wrote down a flint and steel, I was thinking maybe some form of alcohol, too.

I'll look that up.

>>49683365
Guts is a decent portrayal of a high-level fighter that wins without "my ''''''''stance''''''' lets me fucking do magic" bullshit. He's just a ridiculously powerful fighter. You knew what I meant by the anime comment, you're just splitting hairs.

>>49683437
No I really don't know what you mean by "anime".


Guts wins because the author says so and is pretty much a moot point to try to translate into a PF character. He could be a fighter. He could be barbarian. He could be Warder. He could be a Warlord. He could be a Slayer.

>>49683471
Hell, he could even be a Bloodrager.

at what level are characters considered to be "very powerful". i.e, when can a wizard start calling himself an "archmage" 20? 16? i know that it's not an exact measurement, but what are some cutoffs for character "power"

>>49683422
This argument happens all the time and this is always the answer: either you get the same options as wizards, in which case your character will feel very "anime", or you just accept you're playing an underdog class and hope your DM is skilled/cinematic enough to give you liberties.

The latter is my preference, assuming you do have a good DM.

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>>49683430
>Prime 32

>I have banned barbarians for similar reasons. I mean, their main class feature is grunting to "power up", they're uncannily fast for no particular reason, they can avoid surprise attacks like some kung fu master, and they also get the power to resist mind control by believing in themselves. Seriously? :rolleyes Plus they have at least two PrCs which let them turn into invincible monsters by channeling their emoness. One of them makes them Large and gives them natural weapons. But even more ridiculously, the other PrC is some Dangerous Forbidden Technique thing where you might die or go insane every time you use it.

>And don't get me started on rangers, who are swordsmen with magic powers who hold vendettas and keep telling everyone how invincible their fighting style is. Even when it's something ridiculous like wielding two of the same weapon at once. Plus, animals love them because they're just that awesome. Can you say "Mary Sue"? They even get powers which let them show up mysteriously then leave, and you can't follow them because the grass is too thick or something stupid like that. And, I am seriously not kidding here, if a ranger takes special interest in you he can always find you and you take a penalty to Sense Motive checks to understand his cryptic sayings. WTF godmodding.

>I'll stick to my warblade for realistic campaigns, thank you very much. None of these silly special attacks and transformations, they'll kick sand in your eyes to catch you off balance then stab you. They don't go for that stupid "soul of the sword" stuff either, where a samurai is living death while holding a katana but can't kill a kitten if you hand him an axe; a weapon is a weapon. Insert pointy end into opponent - what is so hard about that to figure out?

>>49683437
Confirmed for not actually looking at Path of War.
Look at Primal Fury, Scarlet Throne, Golden Lion and Iron Tortoise. Tell me those are "anime" but Guts isn't. Go on, try it.

He's a Zweihander Sentinel and we all know it.

>>49683471
>No I really don't know what you mean by "anime".
Less gritty, more mainstram anime like Naruto and Bleach, where the characters are essentially mages, but also hit people with slabs of metal.

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>>49683430
>>49683437
I would argue "that's the joke", because there have been extensive arguments about what constitutes "weeb anime shit" and it was always brought up that one could argue ACTUAL MYTHOLOGICAL HEROES fall into "weeb anime shit" if you look at it from a certain angle.

>>49683515
>Confirmed for not actually looking at Path of War.
Well yes, I did so here >>49683287
And as I said here >>49683333 I'm glad it might not be as bad as the /pfg/ conversations have made it out to be.

>>49683530
anything can be weeb anime shit

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>>49683517
>literally a Magus
>literally an Eldritch Knight
Sure buddy, Pathfinder ain't anime at all

>>49683530
>ACTUAL MYTHOLOGICAL HEROES
True, but a lot of those heroes are half gods or quarter gods or whateverthefuck, not mundane.

>>49683542
At which point pointing at something and screaming that it's "weeb anime shit" stops meaning anything at all.

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>>49683539
And I'm saying you're a fucking liar. Those disciplines I said are all mundane ones that fit the idea of "tough and skilled fighter with preparation, skill and grit."

At least do research before shitposting

>>49683517
So gishes.


And what part of Naruto are you even talking about because I remember everything up to and including the Ice guy being pretty low key. You infuse an attack with a bit of energy and attack. No big deal.

I don't know much about bleach but I wouldn't call them full on mages in the "frogs and newt tale sense either".

Saying someones a full on mage/wizard has a lot more going on than "he does "magic". It's thematics. Those abilities aren't really unusual in their world. At least in Naruto EVERYONE is expected to manipulate their chakras.

>>49683483
Nah. Bloodragers cast magic. Guts does not.

>>49683530
Wasn't it pointed out at some point here that Cu Chulainn was basically an ancient Irish bishie boy?

>>49683558
>, not mundane
And neither are the supernatural disciplines and many initiators. What's so weeaboo about the idea that your character can use a supernatural ability. That doesn't mean they don't train or anything.

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>>49683578
Guts doesn't fucking shitpost on pfg either

>>49683544
>>49683571
Gishes don't have any pretense to not being gishes. They're not saying "I'm totally just a fighter guys". I'm just saying I'd love for there to be a genuinely viable, MUNDANE fighter class, but I admit that might just be impossible.

>>49683486
I use this formula:
(population/2^level)=number of people that level

I then say that 1% of people that level have PC class levels.

That means ~2.5 out of every one million people are level 12. Now only one out of thirty of them are a wizard.

The population of the world was ~900 million in 1800, which I use as a benchmark.

I would say Archanists & Wizards can both call themselves archmages. Perhaps Summoners, Witches, Sorcerers as well under the right circumstances. So lets say 5 classes fit the bill. 5/32 classes (not including occult classes).

(9000000/2^12)*.01*5/32 = 343

So 343 people in the world of that strength. If you want it even smaller. Lets say there are only 10 archmarge in the world.

(9000000/2^17)*.01*5/32 = 10.7

So just about the right number. 9th level spells make you an archmage by my stupid metrics.

>>49683601
Cu Chuchulain was fucking shone protagonist.

He has a super powered evil form. Tries to do well. Has a sexy female he trained under, and got to bang when his training was done.

>>49683633
Neither do the Warder or Warlord. They don't become mages unless you trait/tradition into a discipline that make them.

>>49683633
> genuinely viable, MUNDANE fighter class,
Warder
Warlord
Vigilante Stalker
Mymidon Fighter
Primal Disciple Barbarian
Contender Brawler

All are by default, only reliant on EX abilities. Just don't take the supernatrual disciplines.

And there are fighter archetypes that get SU stuff by the way.

>tfw this entire conversation has made me wary of traiting my Warder with Elemental Flux

I'm now debating the excuse I was going to give for my character having Elemental Flux.

>>49683659
>hey don't become mages unless you trait/tradition into a discipline that make them.
BEING ABLE TO USE A SUPERNATUAL ABILITY DOES NOT MAKE YOU A FUCKING MAGE.

YOU ARE MAGE IF YOU STUDY ARCANE MAGIC OUT OF A FUCKING SPELL BOOK OR YOUR SLUT OF A GRANDMA FUCKED SOMETHING SPECIAL

A MONK IS NOT THE SAME THING AS FUCKING WIZARD STOP THIS SHIT

>>49683654
>Has a sexy female he trained under, and got to bang when his training was done.

If there wasn't fanfiction or art of this, it would be a crying shame.

>>49683680
Fair enough.

>>49683701
Monks however are magical as they make use of supernatural abilities. I agree with you that they are not mages by any stretch of the imagination, however both Supernatual and Spells are both magic abilities.

Some people just really hate magic for what ever reason. However the issue with that is they still have to wear magical gear.

>>49683709

She was a MILF that banged him when he was barely a teenager, if I recall.

>>49683701
>A MONK IS NOT THE SAME THING AS FUCKING WIZARD
You're right. They're punchy sorcerers

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>>49683709
Does this count?

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>>49683727
>Some people just really hate magic for what ever reason.
You're saying you've never wanted to play a Nameless Rank-and-File Soldier who gets caught up in an epic quest?

>>49683737
>>49683752
DOUJINS
THERE MUST BE DOUJINS OF THIS, RIGHT!?

>GM introduces a weird system of "the feats you pick have to be either a logical evolution of what you could already do or you have to saw them in action before" which is subjetive as fuck
>Thanks to this you don't even gain some obligatory bonus feats and other crazy shenanigans
I don't care I'm going to become that guy, I'm leaving this game

>>49683803
Anon, I don't know what to tell you besides go to the sadpanda and enter "scathach"

>>49683833
I have a GM who did this not only for feats, but for spells (for prepared casters), but said that one could in most large cities find people willing to teach if you had the money.

>>49683558
So were the large majority of spellcasters pre-Christian era, and even then.

>>49683833
That's definitely something to bring up as something that's bad for player fun or just leave the game like you wanted. Both are good options.

So I decided I AM going to try and run a game for /pfg/. Here is the general plan:

>limited race list including the following Paizo races & homebrew races:
Orcs
Human
Half-orcs
Halflings
Dwarves
Gnomes
Goblins
Hobgoblins
Bugbears (homebrewed)
Ratfolk (more like skaven)
Kobolds
Changelings (hags are a much bigger thing in setting than in Golarion)
Half-ghoul (Called Geists)
Dhampir
>players are part of a mercenary company and the campaign follows a decades old war. The mercanary company's personalty & alignment will be decided upon during a character creation session
>Paizo material allowed
>DSP content allowed
>Anything else you have to run by me
>Anyone who I find is just intentionally trying to game broken 3rd party material (or 1st party material) is getting kicked. Optimization is fine, exploitation is not.
>Some spells are taken away such as Resurrection, Long Range Teleportation, Planar Bindings, Planar Travel, Contacting other Planes, & Commune (hell I considered removing scry except it's really easy to counter).
>Start at 4th level
>Standard WBL
>Some feats are banned, the usual ones + permanent item crafting (so no wondrous items or arms & armor), crafting scrolls/potions/wands are fine (classes that get permanent item crafting as bonus feats we'll work out what they get instead)
>You use the Unchained versions of Rogue/Monk, the normal ones aren't avaliable (if you want an archetype we'll work something out)
>DHB's Unchained Fighter & Cavalier replace Fighter & Cavalier
>DHB's scholar is available (and the campaign will be accommodating for the research facility)


Throw out some general thoughts of what you'd want to play. I'll make a roll20 for this at some point soon.

>>49684032
Text or voice?

>>49684032
>No kitsune
I wholeheartedly approve and wish you good luck, unfortunately I don't have the time to participate myself. Which is too bad because that seems like a nice environment to finally experiment with the Investigator.

>>49684074
Text

>>49682439
>>49682384
because clearly we can't be bothered to download pdfs and learn a new system for 5 hours of gameplay. also the campaign has been designed for 3.5 and conversion to 5e might not be so fast.

>>49684032
Ertw's beguiler allowed?

>>49684157
I would have to read it. I have not as of yet.

Another thing I must specify is this:
>>49684032
The world is dangerous and hostile, not everything is leveled to you in particular. Often the answer is to not simply charge in but either engage the enemy smartly or not at all. Don't poke the sleeping bear is something to remember.

>>49683764
Did that before sorta, it's actually kinda neat.

>>49684032
>Dhampir
Just the base Dhampir, or are the variant heritages also permitted?

>>49684215
The variant heritages are permitted, yes.

>>49684032
Oggr Zweihander Sentinel(Bushi, but I don't intend to take weeb weapons)

Either that or Human Psion.

A few questions if you dont mind:
Do boost and stance damage bonus get multiplied on a critical hit?
Do Maneuvers crit?

>>49684523
No, and yes you can crit, but the bonus damage isn't multiplied.

>>49684523
>Do boost and stance damage bonus get multiplied on a critical hit?
No
>Do Maneuvers crit?
Yes, but it's just the weapon+static bonuses.

>>49684523
Generally, the only thigns that crit are weapon damage, Str/stat bonus, and weapon enchantment.

>>49684032
What are the "usual" banned feats?

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>>49683486
It depends on the campaign setting.

>>49684032
Are kobolds getting their standard stats or would it be okay if we altered their stat array a bit so they're not made of ass?

>>49684627
Sacred geometry.

>>49684667
But I have a fetish for prime numbers and regular ERPing does nothing for me. How the fuck am I supposed to jerk off during the game if you don't allow that feat?

>>49684676
Just name your character 7 and you'll enjoy whenever another character refers to you by name.

>>49684627
Sacred Geometry and Leadership.

>>49684732
Only those two? Does that mean Arithmancy is okay?

>>49684745
Arithmancy isn't worth the effort involved.

>>49677870


3rd Ed and earlier FR is my guilty pleasure.

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Okay guys, here's an idea for those fags who do t like PoW.
What about a Martial class system similar to Spheres of Power, except with Stamina and Fighting/Weapon/Thematic Styles instead of spell points and spheres?

>>49684564
Don't things like competence bonuses crit?

>>49684853
So... Spears of Power?

Recruiting for an ERP game, all fetishes & kinks allowed. DSP content allowed.

Only accepting cute girl players however, you must have proof you're a cute girl.

Respond to this post with interest pls.

>>49684853
Just used DHB's martials, they're pretty good.

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>>49684861
Yes, hello. I am cute girl. I would very much like to play! My character is a pretty elf archer with a unicorn riding companion.

>>49684875
DHB?

>>49684861
What's the plot setting, and the starting level?

>>49684859
More like Octagons of Combat

>>49684861
I'm a cute girl, but I think I'll pass. I prefer to ERP with fat, balding men who haven't bathed in a week and a half. Thanks anyway though!

>>49684853
...That's just Marksman/Psychic Warrior with power points fluffed as stamina points.
Seriously.

Alternately just convert PoW so maneuvers don't need recovery and instead cost stamina points.

>>49684908
>plot
You are part of the world's fair staff, specifically those who are meant to ensure the world's fair goes off without a hitch.

>setting
Massive city that the world's fair is set in. Carahem, the city at the center of the world. Dozens of districts, places, factions, and things to see.

>starting level
5

The world's fair is sexy

>>49684912
Octagons because it will be extra edgy?

How is Brawler (Wild Child)? Thinking of playing one in my next campaign, backstory is gonna be he was abandoned by his family and grew up with a herd of Aurochs. When he came of age he decided to take his best friend Auroch on his adventure into the dangerous big city world

>>49684861
Tch, only dumb sluts wear that "cutesy" stuff. I'll stick with my sports-spats and sweaty tank top. Who cares what some stupid boys think!

>>49684906
This faggot>>49683638

He made a fighter/cavalier.

>>49684925
>. I prefer to ERP with fat, balding men who haven't bathed in a week and a half
Well I'm not balding, care to drop an email girly?

>>49684957
what you wear does not effect your cuteness, cuteness is a quality that always shines through

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>>49684957
Y'know some people just like looking cute for themselves!

>>49684963

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>>49684861
>Only accepting cute girl players however, you must have proof you're a cute girl.

But I don't want to play a cute girl.

I want to play a middle-aged, voluptuous MILF that's just trying to make ends meet or an ugly male war veteran that's got a soft spot he refuses to show for anyone but his closest friends.

>>49685000
That's fine. Play what ever you want, the PLAYER needs to be a cute girl.

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>>49685006
>the PLAYER needs to be a cute girl.

Nigga I'll be whatever you want.

Cute girl, cute boy, airship with biplane hangers, whatever.

>>49684955

First, keep in mind you're giving up 7 feats with this archetype.

In exchange you get an Animal companion but that costs 4 feats. I would consider this to be an good upgrade.

You have the option of taking Skirmisher tricks when you use martial flexibility but why would you? Skirmisher tricks are generally worse than combat feats. This is a straight wash because it's something you probably won't bother with.

Whenever you get the Maneuver Training ability your animal companion learns how to use that maneuver - having your companion drop Dirty Tricks, for example, to blind enemies isn't bad. So this is a slight upgrade.

Then you trade off 3 feats in exchange for permanently learning 3 Skirmisher tricks. That's a straight downgrade.

Really with this archetype, at the end of the day you're giving up 7 feats for an animal companion and a few shitty Skirmisher tricks. Getting an animal companion increases your actions per round, so I consider it an upgrade, though not a huge one.

Would you all consider 10 sonic resistance relevant at 17th level since it's such an uncommon resistance? or should I bump it to 20?

For reference this should be around the same level of power as a rogue talent/rage power.

>>49685154
What actually uses sonic damage? It's so rare I can only think of like... one spell off the top of my head. And not even the name of that.

>>49685021
>airship with biplane hangers,

Jesus fuck anon, have a little self-respect.

>>49685154
For reference this is the ability. It's a proposed Gunslinger Deed:

Concussive Bang(Ex):
Active: The Gunslinger may, by spending a grit point, replace one attack in a full attack with a concussive bang. All creatures within 10ft of the Gunslinger must make a fortitude saving throw, equal to 10+½ his gunslinger level+his intelligence modifier, or take 1d6+ 1 per gunslinger level sonic damage and be deafened for 1d4 rounds. A successful fortitude save halves the damange and negates the deafened condition.
Passive: The Gunslinger gains Energy Resistance [Sonic] 2, this increases by 2 at 5th level and every four levels thereafter to a maximum of 10 at 17th level.

>>49685160
It also has an active ability as I detailed >>49685170


Basically Active means you spend grit points to use it, Passive is always on as long as you have 1 grit point.

I was thinking it would make sense to raise it since sonic damage is so uncommon.

>>49685180
No, I mean what use is having sonic resistance. How many enemies actually use it. Especially the low low amount of 10 at level 17.

>>49685180
Hey DHB, have you ever thought about looking for a publisher for this stuff, having it in print?

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>>49685165

You telling me you've never experienced the joy of feeling your insides full of Curtiss F9C Sparrowhawks?

You're missing out.

>>49685196
I have but I don't really think any of it is good enough.

>>49685195
Yeah, it is only marginally beneficial so having it at 20 would be more enticing since it is such an uncommon damage type. Of the top of my head I can't think of many things that do Sonic.

>>49685218
It's better than some of the other published junk I've seen. I think you could probably find someone interested in picking it up.

>>49685149
>In exchange you get an Animal companion but that costs 4 feats. I would consider this to be an good upgrade.
Getting an animal companion at your level costs 3 feats. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/animal-ally

>>49685218
here is another Deed


Nimble (Ex):
Active: The Gunslinger may, as a move action or as part of a move action, spend a grit point to become more difficult to hit. Gaining an additional +2 dodge bonus to AC until the beginning of his next turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level. Anything that causes the gunslinger to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the gunslinger to lose this dodge bonus.
Passive: The Gunslinger gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC, this bonus increases to +2 at 5th level and every 4 levels thereafter to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. Anything that causes the gunslinger to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the gunslinger to lose this dodge bonus.

>>49685441
>>49685441
>>49685441

New thread.

Why is everyone obsessed with these toolbox ass classes? Vigalante is basically a grabbox point guy pit of whatever garbage people want. All the 3pp shit is like that too. I miss classes. If I wanted point buy I'd play another system. I wish there were more no options strict progression classes.

>>49685483
Problem is that casters are inherently "grabbox point guys" They pick what features they want out of a fuckhuge list, and get choices of other class features as well. Some even pick what features they want each day. Having to pick " DPR option with flavor A vs DPR option with flavor B" doesn't really compare to Spell selection. Your assumption that 3.X is class based features was flawed from the beginning

>>49684786
Unless you use the quick converter or figure out all your standard spells in advance.

>>49685483
All classes are already random grab bags of abilities due to boatloads of archetypes. Want a rogue that casts spells? Well there you go, archetype for that. Want to be a wizard that has a gun? Archetype! Monk that actually uses weapons? Archetype!
The classes have no identity left because you can almost do anything with any class (even the caster/non-caster divide is breached in very few cases).