Are there no heroes left in man?

>>49631678
I'm too tired for that grammar, but I will say there are still plenty of "heroes" of all scales currently in existence, and yet to be born.

Also a lot of dickwads and assholes, but hey.

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>>49631678
I don't know, but from my insignificant place, it sure seems like Orwell was, in a way, right. "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." Though who is the boot and who is the face changes, most people are damned to irrelevance. No one hero can save them from that. To do so would necessitate a change of underlying human behavior.

>>49631678
How would you run a Protomen campaign?

>>49631947
Probably through karaoke. For serious, doing it with a system that tracks your bonds and how strong your allegiances to principles are would basically be necessary.

>>49631840
Christ, /tg/ is fucking grim tonight. You know these things are meant to entertain, yeah?

>>49632155
Sorry, I'm trying to drink away my depression and it's not working.

How about we light up the night instead?

>>49631678
If you expect heroism to begin and end with one person, I think you missed the whole point of the Protomen. But that could just be me.
Heroism isn't so much an action as it is a culture. For better or worse, it's the decision, the idea, the mindset made that some 'thing' is more important than one's life. An idea, or a cause, or someone else.
Actions, however, follow from firmly held ideals, which is why people call those who do extraordinary things heroes.
That's how I see it, at least right now.
So if you want to ask if there are any heroes, ask if there's anyone who's willing to put their life on the line for something they believe in. Most of us never have to. But I think you'll find there are more than you expect.
Whether they show up in the papers for it or not is irrelevant.

>>49631678
We don't need them.
In all honesty, when has a "hero" ever improved the world? The world is not changed by "heroism." It is changed slowly, by a million diffrent things over a hundred years. And yet, put humanities backs against the wall and they will do the impossible.
Humanity doesn't need a hero. It needs a villain.

>>49632332
I agree with that statement but you're still going to need heroes to FIGHT the villain. A villain without opposition, even in the form of an anti-hero or leagues of minor heroes, is just some jackass despot.

And if given the choice between humanity finding something worthwhile to occupy ourselves with that doesn't involve dying in droves vs getting invaded by fucking aliens or something, I'd take the former. So long as it's not some Equilibrium style bullshit.

>>49632359
See, we don't even need the concept of "heroism," all we need is a strong enough survival instinct. When faced with a large enough mutual threat, even the greatest of enemies can become allies.

>>49631947
I wouldn't. I don't think it can work as a campaign, but as a story-based microgame like Reflections, it'd probably work pretty well.

You tell the story of the first hero, detail his origin, his purpose, his rise, and lastly, his mission; doomed to fail. You repeat this process with the second hero, only the final mission is when the reveal occurs.

They then have an ideological battle over a couple scenes, and then the climax hits and we see who's left standing, physically and ideologically.

For example, While Protoman died, he won the ideological battle.

>>49632423
Survival alone does not make a human life. Not everything is about war.

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>>49631678
No heroes around, no siree.

>>49631678
Source on image. Is there a Kamen-Rider inspired webcomic I'm not reading?

>>49631678
Nope. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis.

>someone does something awesome
>everyone praises them for being awesome
>some people start critiquing how awesome that person is
>now that person is not quite as awesome as before, but still more awesome than average
>then someone suggest that said awesome person is really terrible
>people respond by asserting that they're awesome, even though they have flaws
>now the person is above average in terms of public opinion
>said above average person does somethign not awesome
>people say he's worse than Hitler
>people defend him being better than average
>now that guy who was awesome is just average until they drift into obscurity

>>49632608
Its based off of the music of the Protomen, a Megaman themed rock opera band.

>>49631678
>tfw you realize mankind probably had a bunch of heroes who died while Protoman was being built, because no human can take on the Robot Masters
>tfw you realize the crowd Protoman addressed was probably nothing but aging parents/grandparents and small children
>tfw he's basically telling all that's left of the human race to commit blatant suicide

At this point, they need a Messiah, not a hero.

>>49632736
This. Protoman was basically saying "Jump in front of my gun to buy Megaman a millisecond of reprieve. What, you won't? Fucking selfish human scum."

>>49632736
>>49632929
>"Why are you leaving, Father?"
>"To fight. Take the other children with you. Now."
>"Can't I come with you? I can fight, too."
>"No, you can't. Go."
>"Yes, I can. Father, I won't let you-"
>"NO, you can't. I said GO!"
>"Well, WHY NOT? I'm not going to leave and let you die, Father."
>"Listen to me. If you don't run and lead the others right now, you're all going to die. And if you and the young ones die, there won't be anyone left to fight for. So GO!"

>>49632736
I mean...in Joe's time, we only saw one hero. You could argue there was more, but they brought Wily up to power themselves. I mean, there was likely several people who could've done something.

>>>/mu/

>>49632736
I figured that Protoman or Megaman could have gotten some people to help if they did more legwork before going on a rampage against Wily.

>probably nothing but aging parents and small children
I don't know what your parents are like, but most of the kids and seniors I've known aren't the type to wander into battlefields screaming for brothers to slaughter one another, and then expressing disbelief when one mourns the other.

>>49631678
Anon, I just want to thank you for posting this, because I just listened to the whole thing and it's brilliant

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>>49632584

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>>49634329

>>49633974
Act II: Father of Death > Act I

>>49631754
>I'm too tired for that grammar
its from a song

search "protomen"

Might as well link all of both albums

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cnYvMC2fCo&list=PL74C577B68B65B620

Listen to the damn albums, people. The Protomen are incredible.

>>49632332
>when has a "hero" ever improved the world?
You shut your whore mouth. The world is better off for the existence of sandwiches.

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Act III when?

>>49638679
>Act III
They're doing a bunch of felating their female singer's ego when she can't hit the notes even in the studio. And in all the new material they put out they keep putting her further into the spotlight. If she doesn't get better at singing then Act III hopefully never.

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>>49638781
>implying
>What is HOLD BACK THE NIGHT?

>>49638903
Get Equipped (remastered): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPSQpxUJdCD_HsxKdCFc56b39_25JD4wb
>it's not the robots who need saving.

>>49634375
Damn, as soon as I see that picture I get like audio flashbacks.

I can almost hear "The Hounds".

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>>49638988
Ooh, I know this group. Other than few songs they were pretty average. This is a new album, I guess?

>>49639217
I know that feeling very well anon.

>>49639270
>they were pretty average
yeah, most the songs are pretty bland. Some are good though, The Haystack Principle, History Repeating Part 1 or the Message from Dr. Light hit me pretty hard. But it definitely doesn't have the coherence of the Protomen's stuff, I guess because it's not meant to be a rock opera.

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>>49639558
>History Repeating Part 1
Yes, that was one. I can't remember any other at this moment. I should check it sometime again.

Well, I don't think I would ever forget my first Protomen experience. Man, it was fuckin intense.

Whilst I agree coherence being an asset, ungodly emotional intensity of Protomen is unparalled and that is what makes them so amazing.

>>49632929
>Is there not one in all your ranks?
>Is there no one who values courage over life?

>>49631678
Should've linked this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d30OSJkt7Dc

>>49632736
>>49632929
>>49639749
They all died anyway.

"Distraught by the grief of killing his brother, Mega Man flees from the fortress, leaving the crowd of people that had gathered to watch the battle to be slaughtered by Wily's robots."

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In your opinion, what tabletop RPG system is best suited for representing the struggles of Megaman and Protoman?

>>49639911
>Those double dubs
Probably a supers system, to be honest.
Someone mentioned they were in the process of making one a while back in the game design general, and one of the suggestions that got tossed around was a double percentage roll where you rolled under the percent functionality of the system you were trying to test with, and every test or special action removed a percentage of functionality from the system until you were recharged or restored.
I assume the 'main power source' could spend energy from main power to restore the functionality of a particular system.

>>49639840
>You will fall, because you never tried to stand for yourselves!

>>49639749
>literally "kill yourselves to prove you're brave"

Fucking robots. Never had to deal with mortality so they act all high and mighty.

>>49640113
Actually, don't robots have a shorter lifespan than humans? I mean, what's the oldest working computer you know?
And if you upload the mental functions into another frame, is it a clone or the same person?

>>49640151
>And if you upload the mental functions into another frame, is it a clone or the same person?
Continuity of consciousness. Works on people too: see Eclipse Phase.

>>49640191
There is no continuity of consciousness, that's made-up bullshit and Eclipse Phase is fiction.

>>49640151
A clone, obviously. If the two could each coexist simultaneously, then they clearly cannot be the same person. And destroying one as soon as the transfer is accomplished doesn't change that basic fact.

>>49640277
Clones by definition do not have the original's mind or memories. You are thinking of copy or simulacrum.

>>49632634
sounds awful tbqh

>>49640295
I mean, strictly speaking, since we're talking about robots, it can't possibly be a "clone", since a clone by definition is a biological entity. But pedantics aside, you get what I mean: It ain't the same person as the original.

>>49640343
I do get what you mean, but arguing whether or not a perfect copy is the same person as the original is pointless as it is a personal belief, much like the existence of souls.

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>>49631678
This ain't no place for no hero.
This ain't no place for no better man.

>>49640421
What?

No. You can have personal beliefs ABOUT these things, but there's still an objective reality, and that's that the perfect copy isn't the same person and souls don't exist.

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>>49640151

The source is the original, the destination is a copy. Not a lesser, but not the same person.

There is no coin toss.

>>49632325
ISIS is full of heroes then?

>>49640631
From a certain point of view, sure. Heroism is relative.

>>49640488
>implying there can be any objective mechanics or facts concerning something as rooted in faith and/or mysticism as the concept of the soul

>>49640993

You can 'believe' whatever you want, but the soul does not exist. Human consciousness begins and ends with chemical reactions in the brain.

>>49641079
The point is that because it's tied to something no living human can objectively observe (what happens to the consciousness and personality upon death), its existence can be neither proven NOR disproven, making it a pointless angle in any empirical debate.

>>49631678
"Heroes" cannot save man from himself, this is why Megaman gave up at the end of act I and it's what Protoman realized he did wrong in his dying moments. So yes, there are no heroes left in man because everyone is waiting for one.

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>>49641158
No one can overcome true fear, anon.

But Wily's time will come. No king rules forever. Not even machines are eternal.

And when the dust finally settles, the primitive descendants of those who failed their heroes will start again.

Time, you see, is the true winner of every war, of every revolution.

>>49632214
Drinking doesn't help. My advice is go find something to do or someone to talk to.

(yes, i know depression stops you from doing that. I've been there. but doing stuff is the answer)

>>49632214
Just write out a checklist of your daily routine. Outline things that you like, and things you're awesome at. Put some short term and long term goals on there, and write a few of your dreams. Use it as a guide to get what you want and you'll feel better.

>>49633274
It's made pretty clear that by the time Joe worked up the nerve to GTFO, all other dissenters had been killed for being dissenters.

There were others. They died. More need to rise to take their place. And the Joe died.

>>49639749
>Is there no one who values courage over life?
That always pisses me off, because bravery is a stupid reason to fight. Bravery is the means to fight, not the reason for it.

If it was
>Is there no one who values freedom over life?
then it's actually a reason to fucking fight. Alive or dead, you'll be free of Wily's tyranny.

>>49639270
>>49639558
>>49639650
the megas don't have a full blown rock opera going, but the two history repeating albums tell a pretty coherent story. especially the second one. i'm nit the breakman, make your choice, and i refuse(to believe) make for a pretty epic confrontation and climax between megaman and protoman on the question of whether they are men or only machines.

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>>49631678

>>49641106
Look you noon, this isn't about personal observation, it's about logical progression. We know for a scientific fact that human consciousness is all in the brain, and that when it dies, it just stops and that's it. We know because we've checked, and we've studied, and there's nothing that can be neither proven NOR disproven, because if it can't be proven, it DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST.

>>49640631
Never said heroism was inherently good.
Greeks had a ton of douchebag heroes.

>>49643767
I was once as certain as you are. I've been on your side of this argument before, years ago. Your fervor is admirable, if unnecessary.

There is as of yet no way to prove that there is a celestial body beyond the observable universe (i.e. really far away) composed solely of solid, pure nickel. However, such a body is, within the laws of physics, possible.

Does that mean such a thing certainly does not exist?

Alternatively, if this universe was a computer simulation nested within another universe, there would be no way for us to objectively prove it, but no way to objectively disprove it. The laws of physics do not preclude this, nor do they state it to be the case.

Human knowledge is limited, which can only lead to the conclusion that only the dead know the truth of what lies beyond death. We cannot ask the dead with all our instruments of measure, so we, the living, cannot truly claim to know anything of it.

Where would you even look for a soul, or for its absence? What would it look like? What would it be made of? The laws of physics say nothing describing it, nor do they preclude the existence of such a thing.

That, anon, is why it has no place in such a debate. There's nothing objective about it. It's like trying to say that Cinnamon Toast Crunch is objectively better than Frosted Flakes, when the matter of which is "better" is entirely a matter of personal belief and taste.

Believe me, I hope you turn out to be right. It's the best possible ending for me. But there's a non-zero chance you're wrong, and that's what I need you to understand.

Please. Before the anons start posting pictures of hats and ruin what semblance of civility this thread has left.

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>>49644243
>Before the anons start posting pictures of hats
Too late.

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>>49641079
I never get opportunities to post this in context.

>>49643943
part of being a hero was having a character flaw that is overcome.

Heracles is a good example, his flaw was being a fucking drunken mess who murdered his own kids.

>>49631947
You don't.

The whole point is that the only people willing to save humanity is a single robot specifically built for the purpose (and his replacement), because humanity has already given up, and that the efforts of said robot are completely pointless.

>>49644398
And the greatest tragedy is that the one thing that could have saved them(a human who gave a shit) already came, and nothing got done.

>>49632736
>>49632929
The thing you are missing is that Protoman desperately, desperately wants to be proven wrong. If one of them actually stood up and fought to make the point, he wouldn't have fought back. Hell, he'd probably have joined them and started gunning down Wilybots.

>>49644444
Pents speak the law!
Where were you when Protoman died?

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>>49632325
Huh. I like that.

Unfortunately, I can't help but believe it's wrong. A man who fights for an ideal is a zealot, a slave-beast who is less than a man, because that which is gold in humanity is not merely in that which is always perceived as 'ideal', but rather in a host of traits, good or Ill, that can somehow inspire men to action.

A kind king enslaves himself to the ideal, and suffers for it.

A great king is more than the ideal, he is the kindest, the cruelest, the most generous and most selfish, for how else will he inspire his people into kingship alongside him?

I cannot help but feel that to fight for an ideal is to fall into the pitfall of the kind king.

Indeed, I think a hero would have to fight for his people, no ideal neccessary.

>>49632214
>Sorry, I'm trying to drink away my depression and it's not working.
No fucking shit it isn't working, you're using a depressant to try and solve depression.

>>49631678

This was stupid. What were the humans supposed to do, assault the Robot Masters with their frail human bodies? The whole point of making two super-powered robots is that they needed someone who could physically match the invincible machine army.

Were the humans supposed to throw rocks or something? Yeah, that'd work well against flamethrowers and plasma beams.

>>49644243
But Cinnamon Toast Crunch IS objectively better than Furfag Flakes

>>49645378
Well, unless the point is that Dr. Light has some special power to conjure the materials for explosives and ray guns and stuff, other people should maybe be able to cobble together IEDs and stuff. Or they could steal guns from the robots, Joe took the Sniper's gun in act 1.

>>49640151
mental functions are what make up the individual, same person/machine, different body.

>>49640302
then kill yourself

>>49632736
>>49632929
>>49640113
>>49641457
>>49645378
>/tg/ is full of cowards and bootlickers
I opened this thread thinking, if there were heroes left in man, they'd be on /tg/.

Instead, you are the dead

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>>49645378

>>49638903
Gambler still sounds bad in it.

>>49641319

I don't really have any dreams, don't care about accomplishing anything anymore.

>>49631947
In a word, "cyberpunk".

I'd love to do it, drawing on GiTS/Protomen/Political Themes/etc. to make a dark-toned futuristic game about doomed revolutionaries/"terrorists" pushing back.

>>49646195
I'm >>49641457
You seem to have missed the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of my post. I'm advocating standing up against tyranny, you fuckwit!

There are still heroes left in man!

You are only as weak as you allow yourself to be.

>>49645321

Yep, he is a zealot. Even if for just a moment. To shunt everything that makes him more than a machine so that he can do something beyond human. A monster.

Can he come back from that is another question.

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>>49646195
Everyone dies, but not everyone dies in a pointless sacrifice.

Not everyone leaves their wives widowed and their children orphaned, all for nothing.

>>49647542
Fine then. Let me go and fight.

And you be the one to tell my father why his son died for nothing.

>>49646195
>you are the dead
I've been wondering, is "we are the dead" a reference to 1984 ? Winston says it a couple of times, O'Brien too I think.
or is there some obvious reference I'm missing and everyone will call me a pleb

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>>49644243
I just wanted an excuse to post this.

>>49634329
>>49634338
Thabk you for the images my dudes, didn't know there were more.
Anyone stoked for act III?

>>49644243
You know what this reminds me of? Russel's teapot. If I were to assert, without offering proof, that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, I could not expect anyone to believe me solely because my assertion could not be proven wrong.

In other words, you cannot claim the possibility existing until it has been PROVED! And if it is unprovable, then no, it doesn't exist.

Show me proof of a soul or an afterlife, solid, tangible proof, and I'd buy it. But there's not, so I won't.

You could make the same argument for elves hiding among human society, cloaked by magic, because that can't be proven either. But no one would take that seriously, it's only the long debate and philosophical weight of the issue of souls and afterlife that makes ANYONE take it seriously! If we had been brought up in a society that scoffed at afterlives even before developing the technology to affirm it, we would never even entertain the notion! Where did the idea of an afterlife come from? Not from any physical evidence or source! It's fiction! Fiction only entertained because it has existed for so very long and people want to believe it.

I'd love it if I had a soul, and I never had to truly die, and that men were judged by their deeds in the afterlife, but there is no such place, and if there is, prove it.

Yes, there is a "nonzero" chance I'm wrong, but there's a nonzero chance that The Doctor will suddenly plop down out of the sky in his big blue box and take you on adventures! A nonzero chance doesn't MEAN anything if that chance is infinitesimally small!

>>49644344
>everything we know and love is reducible to the absurd acts of chemicals
Correct!
>And there is therefore no intrinsic value in this material universe
Incorrect! There is all the value that we give it!

>>49631678
Okay what is this from? Is it from a album or mega man or what?

>>49631678
No. And you can allmost hear the Hounds...

>>49650911
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtSxNZeXlKg

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>>49649893
>Whiny leftist repeats argument he heard on youtube: the post

>>49649899
That isn't intrinsic you stupid niggerlover that's the opposite of intrinsic.

>>49649893
>You cannot claim the possibility existing until it has been PROVED!

So you cannot claim the possibility of anything except your own consciousness. Enjoy your return to Solipsism you stupid asshole.

>>49651364
Since nothing has intrinsic value, the only value that exists is the value that we choose to assign.

>>49651386
>>49651353
>You can't prove my makebelieve isn't real!

Grow up already.

>>49631840
Sometimes it's not about how bright the fire shines, but how warm the people around it feel.

>>49644243
>But there's a non-zero chance you're wrong, and that's what I need you to understand.

Isn't there a non-zero chance of ANYTHING though?

Like, there's a non-zero chance that the Matrix trilogy was a documentary slipped past the notice of our robot overlords and Neo is going to bust through your wall and take you to Zion any day now.

There's also a non-zero chance that I've put you under an enchantment that only makes you believe you're a fat nerd shitposting to 4chan when in reality you're a hot blonde princess asleep in a glass coffin waiting on a prince to come kiss her awake.

Maybe you should just kill yourself now because there's a non-zero chance that you're stuck in a dream until you "die" and wake up in the real world.

Maybe I should go ahead and chug petrol because there's a non-zero chance that it will give me rad superpowers.

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>>49649893
>If it can't be proven, it isn't real.
What is a mathematical postulate, for 300.

>>49640191
Do you also believe in phlogiston?
I swear eclipse phase is cancer.

>>49651439
Can't prove much of anything now a days, due to quantum. Bunch of hogwash really. Scientists all running around excited about disproving this or that theory like its a great thing rather than incredibly rude.

>>49651353
Concession accepted, peepee.

>>49643767
>We know for a scientific fact that human consciousness is all in the brain, and that when it dies, it just stops and that's it
No we don't you idiot you're just speculating from inherently incomplete data and calling or science. Worse than an astrologer that's what you are.

>>49641079
Nice unfalsifiable statement, faggot.

>>49639558
>The Haystack Principle
>A story about a Robutt killing himself so that he doesn't become what people saw him as.

>>49640151
>>49640113

One of the Comics main points is that Protoman was originally dying because he had a garbage power source before Wiley fixed it.

Hell, even Wiley regrets sending Protoman to off Dr. Light, because that's too far even for Mr. Stealth Orbital Elevator.

>>49640612

God damn game pissed me off.

Not because it was bad, no. But because the main character REFUSED TO GRASP THE MOST BASIC PRINCIPLES OF DATA STORAGE AND TRANSFERENCE.

FOR FUCK'S SAKE SIMON, GET A GOD DAMN CLUE AND QUIT ANGSTING OVER IT.

FUCK.

>>49649893
>In other words, you cannot claim the possibility existing until it has been PROVED! And if it is unprovable, then no, it doesn't exist.

We have as of yet found no way to prove the non-existence of God and we likely never will. Does this mean that God must exist because we are unable to prove he doesn't?

Say I flip a coin. This coin will either land on heads or tails. You have no way of observing this coin or figuring out what side it landed on. If one person thinks the coin landed heads up and another thinks it landed tails up niether is able to adequately prove their own position nor disprove the other's. The orientation of the coin can not be proven.

And yet one of those people is wrong and one of them is right. Just because I can't prove the coin didn't land heads up doesn't mean it must have landed tails up. Lack of proof is not the same as disproof.

All knowledge is ultimately based on postulates and axioms that we cannot prove. It is impossible to ever truly prove anything other than your own concioussness, and the only person you can successfully prove that to is yourself.

>>49651413
Yes.

That's extrinsic value. You called a statement incorrect and then didn't even disagree with it.

>>49640191
No it fucking doesn't. The fact that you can "upload" a mind and then have a mind in the new body AND a mind in the old body proves it doesn't.

>>49653554
This is what I couldn't stand about it. He's having constant massive existential crises over basic shit any player can accept and roll with immediately.

>>49653564
>And yet one of those people is wrong and one of them is right. Just because I can't prove the coin didn't land heads up doesn't mean it must have landed tails up.
And for all you know, you're both wrong because the coin landed on its edge and rolled into a sewer grate neither of you knew was there.

>>49631678
Wtf I just learned about this phrase yesterday and now I'm seeing it everywhere.

I wouldn't step into the teleporter.

>>49653728
Congratulations for moving out from under that rock.

>>49653554

There are actually a few documents you can find throughout the game that suggest Simon isn't as sophisticated a simulation of the real Simon as the other brainscans are. Catherine's notes on the vivarium mention 'flatter' personality simulations that the more recent scans struggle to interact with and the later questionnaire mentions them having a limited mental capacity.

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>>49656458
I hate it here. Too much light and not damp enough.

Seriously though, is this album about an old game really that famous? Or did everyone start gaming at a really young age.

Humans are arrogant, selfish, petty, gullible, violent, weak, cruel, short sighted, and generally despicable

Why can't you see the pathetic limitations of the human race?

>>49653564
>We have as of yet found no way to prove the non-existence of God and we likely never will.
>trying to prove a negative

>>49657880
Each of us has within himself the capacity for great good, and great evil.

>>49631678
All of my heroes are dead, and my enemies are in power

>>49658268
You are alive enough to post this.

>>49657803
There are 2 albums, no and no you're just really new.

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>>49631678

Of course.

That's why we import superheroes from outer space.

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>>49634338
>>49649681

One more

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>>49649681
Act III?

>>49634338

See, I can't quite agree with that assessment. Yes, song for song Act II has better songs (The Hounds is still my favourite out of all of them, I'm a sucker for a good villain song) but Act I flows better and has a consistent style of song across the board; meanwhile Act II pulls from different genres for each song, which breaks up the cohesiveness a little. However, like I said individually the songs from Act II are fantastic, and I'd agree that they're better than Act I.

I always thought Protoman asking the crowd to die revealed a fundamental flaw in his perception of heroism - that the attempt is more important than the outcome. Thoughts?

>>49649893
>>49651514
>>49653564
We can't disprove the existence of God, but that just means we can't be absolutely certain God exists or doesn't exist.

But, we can say that according to our current knowledge, one outcome is more probable than the other, and that's more than good enough for anyone who has actually important things to worry about.

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>>49631678
nah, in modern society a hero can't actually get anything done, the villains are to strong, so yes,.
>MFW

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>>49657880
Because you seem to be implying you're any better, Anti-Spiral.

For all your ancient knowledge and infinite lifespan, you're no better than the lowliest of us mewling mortals. Your false sense of invulnerability is the surest sign of Pride. Fear cripples your potential. Cruelty leaves you devoid of compassion. Chained by your panic at the potential of mortals, you can see no further than we with our ephemeral lives. Violence scars the universe as you murder countless trillions, numbers our tiny minds cannot comprehend. And all for your selfish delusions of order! An order you yourselves are too weak to admit will not last forever! How gullible do you have to be to think that will last? How petty must you be to steal the potential of all other life for the sake of propping up a doomed order?

We are young, and born to a world that can destroy us whenever it wants. You are ancient, and can destroy universes with a thought - and yet you are no better than us. You have not grown, in all those endless aeons.

What does that say about you?

>>49645321
>A kind king enslaves himself to the ideal, and suffers for it.
>A great king is more than the ideal, he is the kindest, the cruelest, the most generous and most selfish, for how else will he inspire his people into kingship alongside him?
>I cannot help but feel that to fight for an ideal is to fall into the pitfall of the kind king.

At ease, King of Conquerers.

>>49648222
Unless you're in Worm, in which case what you just described, a pointless sacrifice leaving behind dead loved ones, is the best case scenario for anyone. because gritty hurrrrrr

>>49645321
I disagree; a man need not give up his humanity in service of an ideal, but rather is self.
If selfishness and putting yourself above ideals is human, and dieing for a cause is monstrous, then I wish to be a monster.

>>49661267
>I always thought Protoman asking the crowd to die revealed a fundamental flaw in his perception of heroism - that the attempt is more important than the outcome. Thoughts?

I'm not sure if it's a flaw per se, given that heroism (or bravery, depending on your interpretation) is more about the intent in the 1st place: standing between a horde and a village is probably going to be fatal, regardless of whether you plan to stop the horde or run away from it; the difference is that one is cowardice/self-preservation, whereas the other is a heroic sacrifice.

That said, you've got to remember that Protoman saw the aftermath of his own heroic sacrifice: that the world turned to "normal" as if nothing ever happened (other than the statue). His heroic sacrifice basically failed: Wily still rules the city/world and the civilians still live in fear. I think him calling out the crowd was more a desperate hope that his (and Megaman's) actions had made some kind of difference in those around them.

In essence it's a clash of differing understandings of mortality: Protoman knows life is short and wants to make a large impact (preferably the one he was designed to do), whereas the crowd see life as something precious, to be protected at all costs, even if it means living under a brutal dictatorship.

>>49661425
>Protoman's sacrifice meant nothing
I completely agree with you here anon.

I was just thinking that 'The Dead' are just people who have given up on changing anything, and thus have about as much agency as a corpse. If that's the case, then Protoman and Megaman have both pretty much become dead at the end of the first album.

unsure if this was obvious to everyone

>"You're too quick on the draw. Burn this town, there is no law."
>"You walk into my town, waving that gun around. You want a fight, I'll give you one tonight!"
>"You can win this fight, but you gotta join our side!"

I like the songs that make the Robot Masters sound like they truly believe they're the good guys, and Megaman is mislead.

>>49661420

You can't fight thinking about things not related to the fight at hand or you will lose due to a low focus. Thinking too much in combat is death. Ideal or your strongest desire allow you to stay concentrated and push forward even when your body tries to betray you.

>If selfishness and putting yourself above ideals is human, and dieing for a cause is monstrous, then I wish to be a monster.

It doesn't matter if you die or live and selfishness could be as monstrous as any other ideal if taken far enough. It is the fact that you sacrifice parts of yourself for this one thing and put it higher than everything else. How much of yourself are you willing to sacrifice and where lies the line that you will not cross?

>>49640113
No, see, what he said was "Even if your hero wins, if you keep laying down and trying to die, you're hopeless."

If humanity rose up as an army, collectively, and rebelled, they would win. But when they won, they would lose the robots, the comforts of this new life--tyrannical though his rule was, Wily brought them a life of luxury. While it is a challenge for them to put their actual life on the line, it's also a challenge for them to stand on their own two feet and give up their life of luxury and waste to live a life of freedom instead.

That's what Protoman says--They don't want a hero, they want a martyr. A statue to raise. So they can say "Even the hero failed, what's the point?". Even in their final refrain, what does the mass of humanity say? "What good was he? He was never a hero, never worth respecting, he couldn't even save himself. get rid of him for us."

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>>49634338
>>49661218
While Act II eventually grew on me, I still think Act I is superior overall. "The Hounds", "Breaking Out", "Keep Quiet", and "Light Up the Night" are all really great but much of the rest of the album is only good as part of a whole. Act I is pretty much gold from start to finish with "Funeral for a Son" being the only one I'm not too thrilled about.

>>49661781
>It is the fact that you sacrifice parts of yourself for this one thing and put it higher than everything else. How much of yourself are you willing to sacrifice and where lies the line that you will not cross?
There is no line; men die, but ideas are immortal so long as their are men who are inspired by them, and inspire other men through them.
Men die, but nations may live through them.
Men die, but virtue lives through them.
Men die, but their children's future lives through them.

>crowd bickers ceaselessly
>thread on page 9

You are the dead

>>49663005
What is sleep but a temporary death?

You know, sleep. That thing Americans are doing right now.

>>49661332
A man can still do good, even if he can't change the world.

>>49661949
>"The Hounds", "Breaking Out", "Keep Quiet", and "Light Up the Night" are all really great

>>49661218 here, that's basically my point about Act II in a nutshell: Act II has the better songs, but Act I is a better album when taken as a whole. Hope Rides Alone and Funeral for a Son flow naturally into each other (Protoman's attempt at heroism and his funeral), and then there's a timeskip (shown through a small change in musical style, everything from Unrest in the House of Light onwards is less grungy than Hope Rides Alone but more melancholy) and then the entire rest of the album flows from one song to the next.

>>49661885
>But when they won, they would lose the robots, the comforts of this new life--tyrannical though his rule was, Wily brought them a life of luxury.

That's basically why I argue that Act I Light is a massive hypocrite: his dream of saving the world from back-breaking, life-shortening labour got corrupted, but instead of trying something different he keeps doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result, despite him flat out saying to Megaman that one man can't make a difference.

>>49662080

So what is the idea that you will sacrifice your empathy to? Will you cut out any compassion that you ever felt for anyone? Ability to give mercy? To forgive? Does a future where what you have done regarded as the most horrible thing to happen in the history of mankind worth your ideal?

And frankly the same can be said for emotions and qualities normally regarded as negative in our society. Are you still human if you can't get angry, can't hate anyone no matter what they have done, feel fear?

What if man the most close to you dies but allowing yourself even a moment of weakness to grieve can mean betraying your ideal?

>>49667728
I mean....that was after he's gotten truly disillusioned about it. At that point, he realized one man, and one boy can't change the world.

>>49667890
It depends on what the ideal is, and how closely I hold it.
No matter how angry or sad or happy I am, I am still just one man, and my emotions are still just that of one man.
If I can bring about a future I desire, I am happy with not being able to see it; let the future revile me, it in itself would be my legacy.

>>49668091

Yet Megaman quotes Light as saying that there's still hope for man. Light's position on the whole thing is rather confusing when you take into account everything he's said or quoted as saying.

Speaking of hope, in The Sons of Fate, someone yells out something in the part where the crowd want Megaman to kill Protoman just before the crowd flat out says "kill Protoman", it sounds something like "stop!" or "hope!", does anyone have any idea what it actually is?

>>49668147
So be it. We will fight.

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I can't stand the Protmen, personally. Too goddamn depressing.

For my Megaman music needs, I go for the Megas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWaKqtXFLPc

It still gets dark at times, but...never hits the "Why do I even care" levels the Proteman's stuff can hit.

>>49668322
You can't post a pic like that without sauce.

>>49668342
Sadly, I lack any. I've had it saved for a while, and image-searching tells me its 'lineart'. Yes, thank you google, I'd never work that out on my own.

>>49668342
http://xopachi.tumblr.com/post/147378548670?is_related_post=1

>>49668855
>the rest of his stuff
I don't think I've ever been disappointed so fast. Thanks though, kind anon.

>>49640302
well, there's more than enough links to the music on this thread, see for yourself