Scion 2e - It's a Thing Now

Exalted?

>>49463798
No, Exalted is busy being Exalted, this is more like American Gods but with a heavy dose of modern action movies.

>>49463779
>Did you ever play Scion 1e?
Yes. Never again.

If they're overhauling it completely, though, I suppose I can give it the benefit of the doubt and see how they manage.

But how inclusive it is?

>>49463809

There's a preview of the new system here: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/187949/Storypath-System-Preview

I don't think the Kickstarter has the full Scion 2e text, unfortunately. That was the one thing I was hoping for.

There is no better setting for misinterpreting the mythology of dead religions!

I tried to play the game a few times, but the games kept imploding.

KITAAAAAAA

>>49463856
>There is no better setting for misinterpreting the mythology of dead religions!
What about if you used Call of Cthulhu and blamed literally everything on star monsters?

Will the rules stop being shit?

>>49463779
>Did you ever play Scion 1e? What did you think of it? Are you excited for Scion 2e?
Scion 1e was a pretty amazing idea borked up with pretty awful mechanics. Epic attributes obviously weren't thought through that well, a character with higher epic dexterity could never really be hit by characters with lower dexterity. But the idea of modern day fantasy that can scale from kids in highschool taking breaks between classes to deal with nymphs up to gods throwing down with colossi in the middle of a metropolis has always been one of my dreams for a rpg. The bits and pieces we have of the actual mechanics from the system previews look to be able to actually do the idea justice, so im hype as hell.

>>49464006

Depends on how you feel about this: >>49463844

>>49463809
>>49463844
>>49464006
More then that, go to the website and search either in scion or trinity categories. The system went by the name sardonyx for a while, and had three pretty sizable previews where they lay stuff out.

>>49463969
Okay you win

>>49463969

Isn't that actually how Yog-Soghothery works?

Aaaand it's funded. 38 minutes in.

And the KS is fully funded now.

>>49464080
>>49464085
WE CAN GO HIGHER

>>49464106
Think it may beat the Exalted one? The ones that haven't been Exalted from OPP have tended to deliver as promised in a reasonably timely manner, I want to see ex3 blown out of the water sometime by something within the OPP family. I know 7th Sea 2e demolished it, but that's not Scion or a CofD/WoD project.

>>49463779
I had a Scion of Hel nee Baldr that I never got to play. It was a transgender hooligan biker type who had Naflgr as a motorcycle (that could do nothing interesting) and a pair of gloves.

I'd want to do that again, but less shitty.

Also her name was Stacy because I forgot how Ecstasy is spelled.

>>49464229
>Also her name was Stacy because I forgot how Ecstasy is spelled.
That whole post was a short, wild ride.

>>49463779
Scion is the most intensely badly designed game I've ever had the displeasure of reading, playing, and GMing.

It's clunky, unbalanced and deeply unfun to play, punishing players for taking flavorful but not terribly useful abilities like "you can keep a plant alive without soil or water" by making anyone who didn't take such an ability super-strong, super-fast, etc.

>>49464340
>He's never read D&D 3e

The system preview:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7FqViticwNubWNsYjBPQmdIY2M/view

>>49464245
:V
It was a "wait, shit" moment, but I decided not to change it.

>>49464502

Oh hot damn! Gonna tear through this for sure.

>>49464502
Alright. So did they fix what was broken or is it still bad?

So what character concepts is everyone sitting on?

Since my original idea isn't possible until God comes out, I'm thinking of instead playing a Created Scion of Anubis carved from stone (like an ushabti slave-statue) and tasked with keeping the dead where they belong, no matter how they feel about it. Possible forced rivalry with a Chosen of Dagda, who is obviously all about resurrection.

What are your thoughts, guys?

From what we've seen so far, do you think they can actually make the kickass idea of Scion fun to play?

>>49464804
I'm thinking of a Scion of Apollo who's a kickass violinist.

>>49464805

Storypath seems to basically be "better nWoD/CofD system with some FATE and PbtA thrown in there," and that's all I've ever wanted.

>>49464805

It looks better so far. If nothing else, Epic Attributes are out the door.

>>49464872

>PbtA

Can't say I see any of that in there. Nothing really resembles the Move or Threat structure.

>>49464899

Fail Forward and weapon tags.

>>49464805
I'm cautiously optimistic right now. There's a few solid ideas scattered across the various previews, but there's also one or two things I'm not terribly crazy about. On one hand, I really like the idea of Scale, and reducing things down to a max of 10 dice is a move for the best. On the other hand, combat looked pretty dull compared to 1E. It seemed like it was shifting more toward's FATE's style of fighting, and FATE has never been known for its spectacular combat system. All in all though, it seems like a pretty good improvement over last time.

>Stretch goal for Kieron Gillen to write opening fiction for the core

Holy fuck, Onyx Path. Like I'm sure he's not that expensive to hire compared to other writers but damn.

File: __bastet_original_drawn_by_houtengeki__sample-f1ce5ef24f2135e40eb300dc95ea4b61.jpg (183KB, 850x1228px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 850x1228px

>>49463834
>>49463834
>this inclusive

>>49465041

Fail Forward's existed before PbtA, I've never considered it unique to the system. Didn't pick up on the Tags in my last read but you're right, there's influence there.

>tfw waiting for more exciting Pantheons

>>49465044

FATE can do combat plenty well. I've ran some incredible bar rights, and there's a great wuxia kung fu FATE game I really want to play (but at that point I might as well just play Feng Shui.)

>the example Scion of Loki is an Arab

reeeeee

>>49465163
What?

You think it is somehow implausible for Loki to fuck an Arab woman?

>>49465089
I don't know, even as a Fate fanboy I wouldn't exactly call it the highlight of the system. I've had some great fights using it as well, but those were really more to do with good narration/roleplaying and setups that had the players invested in what was going on. It's competent and doesn't get in the way at all, but neither does it add much to the experience.

>>49464340
>It's clunky, unbalanced and deeply unfun to play, punishing players for taking flavorful but not terribly useful abilities like "you can keep a plant alive without soil or water" by making anyone who didn't take such an ability super-strong, super-fast, etc.

I'm running a playtest and while I can't speak to the core system since we've only done one session so far (tonight is going to be a combat and social system shakedown to see how those feel in actual play for us) I can say that powers no longer have the fluffy but pointless trap options. If you get the Fertility purview, from char gen you can have boons that curse or bless family lines, killing the young and old with sickness and misfortune or ensuring happy babies and long lifespans. You can summon fire with Fire and scorch the earth, or you can pluck secrets out of the universe with Fate or Wyrd.

It feels like actual divine magic, is what I'm getting at. No 'oh look at this neato trick' being held up next to some dude who just poured points into Epic Attributes. The Epic Trait purviews are pretty great too, mind you, but none are just exploding dice adders.

>>49465163
>>49465215
Well duh. Sweden is conquered by arabs now.

>>49465163
Badguy race for badguy god?

>>49465287
>playtester

Yay! Could you share your character concepts, and tell us a little about how character creation and Birthrights work?

>Algonquin, Aztec, Chinese, Egyptian, Greco-Roman, Hindu, Irish, Japanese, Norse, and Yoruba
I'm glad they got rid of 'loa' as a pantheon, though I wonder with 10 pantheons to start with, what can they add in splats?
Yazata, Australia, Pacific Islanders, maybe folk hero as well?

>>49465319
>I'm glad they got rid of 'loa' as a pantheon, though I wonder with 10 pantheons to start with, what can they add in splats?

Don't worry. They will get the loa. They'll be the first to be added as a kickstarter extra.

>>49465319
Does Australia really have a pantheon? I'm not too hot on Aboriginal Mythology.

>>49465319

The Loa are coming back as a Stretch Goal expansion to the Yoruba gods, with the Persian and Gaullish gods planned for later this Kickstarter.

>Demigod's current slate is the Mespotamia, Mayan, Polynesian, Slavic, and Navajo pantheons. I'd really like to do the Welsh pantheon in a larger Demigod-era book of Arthurian myth. I'm also considering Lakota, Caananite, and Guarani for other supplements.

>>49465062
>That poot

>>49465319
They're adding them in as a stretch goal anon.

File: 1474343702887.jpg (86KB, 840x700px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 840x700px

>>49465319
>No Finnish pantheon
But, but, I want to smite for Perkele

>>49465324
I just read that.
FUUUUUCK.
Loa are the worst pantheon, they are all just African gods given a Hollywood facelift.
You might as well just shove them in a Pan-African pantheon like the Greco-Roman gods.

>>49465376

They're basically the young punks and reinvented elders of the Orisha, it makes a lot of sense.

>>49465318
Char gen is sort of modular, in that you gain skills and shit as you assemble some overarching ideas. You write some one sentence Paths to summarize your origin and mechanical role (or more specifically how you got the skills you think are most central to your character) and get some skills from that, and do attribute points. You then pick Callings, which give you skills related to them in addition to their roles in generating Fatebindings. Then you get a small handful of points to buy up knacks (which are unique powers from your Callings), boons, and birthrights. Birthrights are kind of a build your own thing at the moment with examples of various levels of power so you can see how inventive you can get with it. Playtesters only have relics and guides to play with now, but at char gen one or two can eat your Birhtright points up just fine, though I think we'll be getting animal companion Birthrights in the final game. At least I hope so.

That's about as much as I'm comfortable discussing mechanically with the NDA since Neall knows I post here and spies on threads sometimes I think. That was all sufficiently vague I hope. I'll talk my people's PCs in a bit. This post is kind of getting unwieldy.

>>49465163
Anon we are talking about a god who turned into a mare, got fucked by an horse and gave birth to an eight-legged horse. Him having an Arab scion isn't strange.

>>49465372
Gods aren't actually that complex to design as your progenitor. You pick their three Callings, and decide what purviews they have. You'll be fine as long as your GM approves what you show him.

>>49465336
Yes. Rainbow Serpent is best Snake God.

>>49465488
Since Pantheons are more mutable now apparently, all the serpent deities should go form one to hang out in and eat titan-mice or something.

>>49465488
Yeah but that's all they've got

>>49464434
I hate 3.5e, but Scion was genuinely worse. Much worse.
Yes: that bad.

>>49465517
People with mythology knowledge! Name as many snake deities as possible! I just had an idea.

>>49465543
Snakey McSnakington

>>49465518
Hey, Australia has more deities representing erections, rape, and rainbows than a San Fran pride parade.

>>49465543
Quetzocoatl
Saint Patrick

>>49465530
No it isn't. There's not even enough Scion material for that to be true. You could literally teach game design classes on what 3.5 does wrong.

>>49465543

Apep, Wadjet, Quetzalcoatl, kinda Jormungandr?

>>49465543
We got Rainbow Serpent, Jormungand who is I think a titan? Maybe not? Quetzlcoatl, Kulkulkan of the Maya who might actually be Quetzlcoatl in a different Mantle that week, and a bunch of Chinese and Japanese dragons.

>>49465543
Kukulkan/Quetzalcoatl
Apep
Wadjet

>>49465543
Degei
Manasa
Nagaraja
Ningizzida
Quetzalcoatl

>>49464434
Nah man,I get that 3e is bad but the level of standalone usefullness of some options compared to others is nowhere near Scion 1e level, a game where "know the weather" and "basically auto-win any fight against someone who doesn't also have this" are equivalent. And that's just early level stuff nevermind late game where you can get 70 odd auto sucsesses in a system where a single dice will give you one and 13 is a big dice pool.

A niptick, I know, but somehow I'm rather displeased with the changed Pantheon names. It reeks of the sort of shallow fan pandering that involves browsing through forums and just fulfilling whatever requests are made the most. Yes, yes: the previous names weren't mythologically accurate. Your motorcycle centaurs and and Marvel comics fire giants are beyond offended, I'm sure.

The previous names were charmingly campy, distinctive and memorable. Now, literally 9 of them are just a foreign translation of the word "gods". What a freaking bore.

The previous edition rulesystem was awful, but at least it was its own thing. The hell's that garbage? Isn't there a point where you should drop your pretenses and just make a Fate product? It's clearly what they wanted.

Wouldn't it make more sense to group the deities together in pantheons based on power/influence rather than point of origin?

>>49465630

If you're complaining about the Ogdoad being changed to the Netjer I'll fight you.

>>49465642

There's plenty more crunch to this than FATE. It's the midpoint of that and the nWoD/CofD system with some new stuff tossed in.

The only thing explicitly cribbed from FATE is tgat Paths are basically Aspects.

>>49465660
No, not at all.

>>49465565
>>49465568
>>49465580
>>49465582
>>49465594
Okay, so.

Party of Snake Scions.

>>49465660

What, like ocean gods with ocean gods? That makes zero sense.

>>49465418
So okay the cast:
First off is Tse Miaomiao, Chinese born Scion of Bastet. She's a former athlete who drifted into the army and then the UN Peacekeepers who saw some really horrible shit in Africa and is now on a personal quest to punish evil everywhere. Kind of like Chinese Punisher, but even more broken. The player is someone I've known for years and is a giant troll who likes to break systems for fun. This being a playtest I can't in good conscience say no like I usually do when he acts like this, since that will help highlight things that need fixing, but as it is he treated the Birthright rules like Bane treats Batman's spine and has managed to get more purviews than any god but for Odin...but they're tied up in a bunch of relics that can be broken, lost, or have major drawbacks. So we'll see how that goes.

Next we have Travers Garrick who is an actual bastard son of Odin, who became a London con man and since he has come into his powers has expanded his con games to include the occult and is trying to learn more about this weird, shitty world he finds himself in. He has one of Odin's ravens as a Guide (both really, but they alternate and come and go as they please) and is basically one outfit change from being John Constantine.

Then there's Nuri (a fake name on top of a series of fake names, her actual real name is not as tryhard), who is a woman who was in a genuine 'drink the cyanide to meet the ayyy lmao' kind of cult which her father saved her from at her Visitation. Since she's a child of Set, he basically killed everyone then explained the birds and the magic bees to her. She's been drifting through Europe and Asia since, without much personal focus and committing crimes to get by. The player designed her to be kind of at a personal low at the game start so in the future even being chased by burning wolves through a cave in the Underworld is still a step up since she has friends with her

Then we go to a new post since this one is too long.

>>49463779
It's a really good concept but so terrible in implementation.

>>49464106
Yeah, but why should we? They're making the game, what more do you want?

>>49465668
>If you're complaining about the Ogdoad being changed to the Netjer I'll fight you.

Dodekatheon -> Theoi
Aztlanti -> Teotl
Amatsukami -> Kami
Celestial Bureaucracy -> Shen

I think it's silly to play a game like Scion expecting "loyalty to the source" to that degree. Most ancient peoples didn't actually HAVE an impressive title for their "Pantheons" because in their minds, they were just "the gods". It may be more realistic, but it makes for forgettable, silly sounding names, especially if you speak some of the languages. Theoi and Teotl even sound annoyingly samey if you pronounce them correctly, and the fact that they're all just foreign words for "gods" is in some ways more culturally ignorant than giving them fancy titles. It reminds me of Witch Girls Adventures and that awful comic where the Japanese grandma tells her kid she's member of the ancient Japanese witch order called the "Majou". It's like, "WOW! YOU CAN USE GOOGLE TRANSLATE! MUCH CREATIVE, VERY AUTHENTIC!".

>>49465319
Yeah, Yoruba is better since it incorporates that and Lucumí and the old actually African versions and probably some Brazillian bullshit as well.

Now the odd one out in power level is probably the Hindus, though I'm interested to see what they do with the Algonquin.

I swear to Xipe Totec, there will be blood if they've gone and made the World that "magic is publically known and Scions are treated like superheroes" schlock they were threatening. I was playing this to do American Gods: the RPG, not Exalted With Guns.

>>49465758
Heather is a Scion of Hades and has Order and Death purviews and the Judge calling. She's basically a high priced private eye, whose ability to summon shades of the slain, see ghosts, and command obedience let her get some amount of rep at her job. I've never watched Death Note but I think she might be based on L, not sure if the player was taking inspiration from somewhere.

And last but not least we have Gwyneth Arabella Bickford-Smith, who is a result of her mother's infidelity one drunken night with Dionysus, is the quiet shame of her old money family who spent her youth shipping her off to boarding schools and trying to forget the shame of her existence. She has decided to spite them as an adult by landing somewhere between Paris Hilton and Indiana Jones, a known face in the gossip rag celebrity circuit who is famous because of her last name and skin shown, but who also seeks out the weird and supernatural because she's weird and supernatural and maybe they want to be friends. She has a magic chalice that she can use to fill any container with any alcohol, which she uses to keep people's drinks topped off and is honestly the best team player of the group so far. Which is only one session mind you, but half of them tried to drift off and do their own things and she was instrumental in making the group come together.

I also made a GMPC because I want to play with the PC side mechanics too, a bruiser Scion of Ares who is not big on real fights, but I deliberately made him someone who can fade to the background pretty easily so as to not be a dick.

>>49465876
That sounds like it would be great as an alternate setting stretch goal, but I agree that it would be bullshit as the default.

Damn, I liked the Slavic and Mesopotamian pantheons that got referred to in the 1st ed. Hope they get added some point. I'd rather they be expanded than the Atlanteans.

I was going to post something, but pretty much anything I was going to post about Scion or Onyx Path has already been recorded here.

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=54166

>>49465426
Considering Loki, it actually is weird he fucked anything that could be considered humanoid. Shit, the kids he had with his wife was a wolf and a snake. They were by no means doing it in their normal forms.

>>49465876
>>49465904
Better sharpen your flint knife, the preview mentions the Norwegian government setting up troll preserves.

>>49465876
They didn't. The myths are true but everything magic is just out of sight, not known. I think its a bit more like the World of Darkness than Exalted With Guns

>>49465567
I know exactly how bad 3.5e is, but with just scion's core book, right out of the gate, right after you create characters, it's already so broken and terrible that it's like if 3.5e started at level 20 and had all its splatbooks.

You could teach game design classes about scion, if it wasn't so bad it never managed to become a success to begin with.

They would also be very short game design classes. Basically "So this starting character literally cannot be hit by anything that hasn't got a maxed dexterity value. This other starting character can talk to spiders and make plants grow twice as fast, and otherwise has normal human stats. same budget. literally what the fuck? What about either of these is fun gameplay?"

Place your bets, folks: what're we gonna see among the pregen characters now? Black lesbians? Muslim genderqueers? Fat paraplegic Cambodians with pink mowhawks?

>>49465919
Hah! Trollhunter reference. Fantastic movie.

>>49465642
You do know that most systems borrow from other systems, right?

>>49465668
>The only thing explicitly cribbed from FATE is tgat Paths are basically Aspects.
The character creation is exactly the same.
I've got no problem with it, but there's no sense in denying it. I love it, in fact. Fate needed more crunch.

>>49465954
>Fat paraplegic Cambodians with pink mowhawks
In the older ST system with the disadvantage hoarding i*ve seen some players use this would have been a perfectly normal concept.

What people don't get when they try to design their systems by randomly plucking out bits of Fate and Apocalypse World because that's what's going strong nowadays is that those systems are WELL DESIGNED. Their parts fit together real good, like puzzle pieces. You can't just break them apart for the sake of it and build something out of the scraps. You end up with a system that's not simulationist enough to make sense while not being narrativist enough to allow freedom. It happened to John Wick with his horrendous 7th Sea 2nd edition that was falling apart at the seams before the book was even released.

>>49465905

see >>49465343

Ten Pantheons in Hero with three more as stretch goals, plus five each in Demigod and God with more stretch goals later.

>>49465943
Tell me, then, why is Scion broken.

>>49465954
>I'm MAD about PROGRESSIVISM

>>49465989
Pink mohawk is clearly an advantage.

>>49465954

I'm making a transwoman Scion of Osiris and you can't stop me.

>>49465994
Wick's fault in that case was rushing through the playtests. The system holds up fine... so long as you don't poke it too much. Once you start asking questions which aren't immediately obvious, yeah, shit starts falling apart (see the whole argument about guns, which had to be resolved with the rather crude fiat solution of "But if you let that happen, YOU'RE JUST PLAYING THE GAME WRONG AND I WON'T HELP YOU!")

>>49466002
>Tell me, then, why is Scion broken.
Beyond the fact that past the third session half the PCs will be invincible and the other half will be instagibbed if they ever enter combat?

>>49465954
As much as you might not like it, people who like that sort of thing are OP/WW's audience. It's just good business practices for the protagonists to be as "progressive" as possible without upsetting any other major buyers.

When are they going to post stretch goal 4?

>>49466090
Probably once they think it up.

>>49466090

We know the Persian and Gaulish Pantheons are planned, Onyx Path loves to do Quickstarts, and then there's alternate setting Shards to do.

I'd love more Pantheons, but they're probably saving those for later books/Kickstarters.

>>49466002
>I'm MAD about PROGRESSIVISM
It's possible to be progressive without being silly. White Wolf used to actually have a pretty good record back in the day (there's a transgender Scion of Xipe Totec in Scion: Demigod, actually, and not much is made out of it). Where it becomes a problem is when it begins to become apparent that the appearance of progressivism is receiving higher priority than basic issues like the flow of the book, user friendliness or internal consistency. The example that stands in my mind the most of this kind of approach comes from a Fate World of Adventure called "Deep, Dark Blue". It's about being the crew of a submarine and keeps emphasizing how realistic and well researched is it, and as part of that, how cramped submarines are and how physically intense work on it is.

Then one of the pregen characters is in a wheelchair. Because, otherwise everyone in a wheelchair reading the book about realistic submarine operations would think they're being personally offended or something.

I'm sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it. If you're doing realistic submarine operations, a guy in a wheelchair (well, it wasn't exactly a guy, it was a gender ambiguous pronoun beast, but for once that wasn't the main issue) just has no place. And the thing is, it would've been fine if only they haven't bragged so much ABOUT the realism. If they'd gone and said they're doing a campy, cinematic romp throughout a possible science fiction world of submarines where gender-ambiguous paraplegics are valuable members of the crew, sure.

As it is, they've just made themselves look ridiculous and their setting look flimsy for the sake of pandering to yet another "-ism" crowd.

>>49465988
It has FATE style chargen? I'm sold on this. Chargen was one of the best things in FATE, what with it being more about who/what the character is than stats.

>>49466153
What was the paraplegic's job, exactly?

>>49466153

This is a game about heroes empowered by the pagan gods to kick ass, and many of those gods slept with folks of all stripes and freely played with gender. It's hardly the place to complain about it.

Shame about Deep, Dark Blue though. I feel like the FATE settings made via their Patreon have really dropped off in quality, though Eagle Eyes is amazing and Morta is basically a less soul-crushing Red Markets.

>>49465336
>Do dozens of tribes have a pantheon?

Aboriginal mythology is connected but Australia is a big place and the aboriginals were spread right across it so the religions sort of end up like a mythological game of Chinese whispers.

>>49466181

There's your usual stats and power stuff, but the heart of your character is three Paths that are very, very similar to Aspects from FATE: your Origin Path describes where you came from, your Role Path describes what you do, and your Relationship Path ties you to an organization or faction (for Scions, this is your Pantheon, but mortals could just as easily have the NYPD or the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.) Paths are short phrases and you tie Skills into them.

>>49466200
Doesn't matter. You ever been on a submarine? Guy in a wheelchair couldn't move about it. He could have a job that never required him to leave his station, but as a crew member of a submarine he'd still have to do a lot of fast moving about, maneuvering through tight spaces, climbing stairs and ladders, etc. A realistic submerine intended for military operations is simply flat out no place for paraplegics. It's not that the navy is being ableist, it's that paraplegics are simply flat out incapable of performing the job. This isn't the fucking Special Olympics, it's a military vessel. It's NOT about equal opportunity as an ideal, it's about performing its job perfectly. Paraplegics aren't lesser people, they certainly aren't bad people, and there are a ton of things they can do, including some you'd never believe - but this, specifically, isn't one of them, and you cannot pretend that it is while claiming realism.

File: sad.jpg (23KB, 385x385px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 385x385px

>No Hercules

>>49466278
You'd think that'd be obvious to people, but you'd be surprised. Back when I was in the army, my job was handling special cases with recruitment. I remember one guy who was QUADRIplegic and wanted to serve in a combat roll.

Imagine me trying to explain to a person who CANNOT FEED THEMSELVES, MUCH LESS MOVE UNASSISTED, why the army is not being "ableist" for not letting them enlist in a freaking fucking COMBAT ROLE where you can be disqualified for being too overweight, all the while being screamed at through the phone that he'll go to the media and sue us for stomping on his human rights and equality.

>>49466283

He's not really a god?

Heracles is the guy you play as, basically.

>>49466340
He became a god at the end of his myth.
>>49466283
They also don't have Hecate or Janus, so don't feel too down.

>>49466340
I imagine he'll eventually get official stats as a high-end npc like a bunch of demigods did back in 1e.

>>49466356

Thankfully adding gods is super easy. Janus does get a shout-out in the section, thankfully, but no Hecate is a shock.

>>49466340
He's capable of being a god in the sense he's a Scion who made it to legend 9+ and ascended to godhood but he isn't the core pantheon.

If that anon wants to be a Scion of Herakles he probably could. Again, I cannot stress that it isn't hard to make a God for char gen purposes to all those people sad their favorite pantheon or deity aren't making the cut for Scion: Hero. Have heart, friends!

You just decide on their three callings and pick a few appropriate purviews. Like Herc would probably be Warrior, Hunter, Guardian and have Epic Strength, War and....I dunno, Passion purviews? I guess it depends what you'd say he's the god of.

>>49466153
Fair enough, the example you gave is dumb but to be fair, I can't think of anything from OP that just ruined things by being too progressive. Most of their settings are the modern day world but magic and so characters like that are as fine as they are in the real world
>inb4 "they're not fine in the real world at all and need to be killed"
The only other world of their's that I know is Exalted which has a suitably wide range of ways of looking at things.

>>49466153
>White Wolf used to actually have a pretty good record back in the day
No it didn't.
The characters now are actual characters, and nothing is ridiculous.
White Wolf's record back in the day includes Magical Negros, Orientalism, Gypsies, and exoticizing gay rights.

>It's about being the crew of a submarine and keeps emphasizing how realistic and well researched is it, and as part of that, how cramped submarines are and how physically intense work on it is.
The cover of this book literally has a man in a robot suit.
The only one making themselves look ridiculous is you, whining about inclusiveness. Nevermind that you're complaining about Onyx Path, but bringing up Fate as an example of how terrible inclusiveness is.

>>49466200
>>49466278
Actually, the character is depicted in a wheelchair, (a scifi wheelchair) but they've got no Aspects related to it and they've even got +1 Athletics.
Their role is also Gunner's Mate. I'm not even sure they're an actual submarine crew.

>>49466250
>>49466181
>It has FATE style chargen? I'm sold on this.
It has the whole party character creation thing. Asking each other questions and all that. Being supporting characters.

>>49466153
My personal favorite example is Mass Effect 3, contrasted with Dragon Age: Inquisition from the same company.

Mass Effect 3 adds two homosexual characters to your team (a lesbian communications officer and a gay pilot). They aren't fake homosexuals, either: they're very forward about it, they show it, the pilot has a husband whom he talks about a great deal and is central to his subplot, etc.

And yet, they never come CLOSE to being defined by their sexual orientation. They wear it proudly, but they don't wear it ON THEIR FOREHEADS. The communications officer will tell you she's a lesbian if you try to hit on her, but she won't introduce herself by going "I'M SAMANTHA TRAYNOR, I EAT PUSSIES AND IF YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT YOUR CIS SCUM". The pilot mentions his husband in a perfectly organic way while talking about his memories of home, and it's not given any more attention than a wife would have. Furthermore: they both have plenty of character traits which define them more strongly and before their sexuality. Specialist Traynor is cheeky and charmingly awkward. She's spoiled and has an expensive toothbrush. She's allergic to pollen. She loves strategy games. She's ALSO a lesbian. Steve Cortez is a loyal friend, calm under pressure, a good cook, a daredevil pilot, has a favorite model of starfighter, and ALSO has a husband.

In Dragon Age: Inquisition, there's a character whose EVERY SINGLE FUCKING WORD has something to do with them being genderqueer. They have no personality traits which aren't related to their being genderqueer. I don't even remember their names, because they're just that flat and shallow. They aren't people, they're a cardboard cutout with "queer" written on it. And your every conversation with them is always about how they're queer and how whoever is pro-queers is good and reasonable and whoever thinks it's weird is a narrow-minded jerk. That's the whole extent of their person.

This is the wrong way of doing this thing.

>>49466417

If you're bitching about Krem you're retarded. His gender only comes up if you ask or in one throwaway line from Cole; the rest of his dialogue is about being a badass mercenary. Nobody in the fucking game ever says genderqueer, and I'm sorry one transman handled well is enough to upset yoy.

>>49466416
>The cover of this book literally has a man in a robot suit.
Which is realistic and internally consistent given the setting. It's the near-future, we have similar things right now. However, you cannot explicitly state (which they do on page 6) that submarines are cramped spaces which are hard to maneuver through, then pretend that they're wheelchair accessible.

>Their role is also Gunner's Mate. I'm not even sure they're an actual submarine crew.

A. Yes, they are.
B. Even if you know nothing about submarines in real life, the fact that all characters in that particular world of adventure are submarine crew by definition should be a hint.

Don't play dumb to defend a stupid design decision. Evil Hat Games has a lot of good ideas, but every once in a while they fuck up, and bending over backwards doing logic acrobatics to justify it just makes you look like you're too stupid to get it, which given that you're evidently literate can't possibly be the case.

>Gallic Pantheon at 80k
>Quickstart at 100k

>>49466018
What was the argument about guns?

>>49466250
That sounds very well thought out. I'm surprised Scion has anything this good.

>>49466278
Sorry, I should have explained myself better. I was hoping he was doing the heavy lifting or something equally lulzy.

>>49466517
It goes about like this:
In a typical attempt to pander to the narrativist crowd, Wick makes it so that weapon types are irrelevant in 7th Sea 2nd Ed. A sword causes as much damage as a club or a fist or a beer mug. He defends this by saying that this reflects the swashbuckling genre, and for once, he's not wrong and the answer is considered perfectly acceptable. It's not what many people wanted, but it's definitely a reasonable design decision if you're trying to emulate a specific genre.

HOWEVER, Wick tries to have his cake and eat it by making it so that GUNS, unlike any other type of weapon, are treated unusually and cause massive amounts of damage, using a rule he picked up from Blood & Honor (which was about samurai tragedy, where the cruel absurdity of the fact that a gun wielded by an asshole can bring down an HONORUBARU SAMURAI BLADEMASTER is very appropriate). Because of the way the vastly simplified combat system worked, it also made guns very unbalanced. Not going to get into the mechanics but without a gun, killing someone is pretty much a chore because of the sheer amount of hits they can take. With a gun, they go down in like two.

How is this balanced? Well, 17th century guns take a super long time to reload, so you can't use them all the time! Problem solved!

..........until someone asked why they can't just bring eight guns to every fight and fire them one after the other. Which is, you know, what people in the 17th century actually did and what swashbuckling pirates do in the movies.

A long, long, long, long shitfest later, Wick basically just flat out said that a player who does this is a jerk and a GM that allows this deserves their game being ruined.

Which is not exactly an elegant to solution to what is a very legitimate problem with the rules.

But then again, this is John Wick.

>>49466417
>In Dragon Age: Inquisition, there's a character whose EVERY SINGLE FUCKING WORD has something to do with them being genderqueer.
Literally every article on Krem I've seen says the exact opposite.

>>49466484
That's always the problem with these things. No matter how well it's handle, someone is going to complain about how these queers are so forced.
Relevant:

>>49466489
I'm looking at the book. They seem to be the crew of the main ship. Not that there's really much to go on, since the book is so light. But considering it has art of people on a deck in giant bulky diving suits, and a big open debriefing room with a projector, I'm going to chalk this up to you losing your marbles.
Although on second thought, it does say "submarine battles" when talking about their shooting skills.

No one is bending over backwards except for you. the character's wheelchair is literally never even commented on. Fuck, *nothing* about the characters--any of them--is commented on.

>>49465994
Have you even looked at this system?

>>49466572
It's a tiny little girl with a scouter.
I'm too lazy to upload: http://i.imgur.com/y4BRiZT.png

>>49466617
Other than the usual Wick flip out, I don't really see the problem. I feel that people approach the concept of "balance" wrong.

File: OhHgTGOT.jpg (24KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 400x400px

>>49466572
I'm now picturing someone in a wheelchair who coped with the loss of the use of their legs by becoming obsessed with gains to a level that would make /fit/ blush.
>When you can't feel your legs EVERY DAY IS UPPER BODY DAY!

>>49466651
>Other than the usual Wick flip out, I don't really see the problem. I feel that people approach the concept of "balance" wrong.
It's a problem with trying to make a "lightweight" system without knowing how the design is supposed to work. You can't give people mechanical freedom in a way that should logically and thematically allow them to do something, then take backsies and they can't because it screws up the game balance. It's why he had to revise the whole combat system during development in the first place. He tried giving people more freedom, but then they USED IT and it ended up derailing his scenarios. So now they've got freedom... except when they don't.

>>49466699
Unless they walk around on their hands like that alien from The Phantom Menace, it still wouldn't help them around a submarine. I don't think you understand just how fucking labyrinthine those things are. You literally just couldn't fit your wheelchair throughout most of the passages.

File: utzTCyo.png (200KB, 490x355px) Image search: [Google]

200KB, 490x355px

>>49466724
Yes, I'm also pretty sure just having fuckhueg arms wouldn't actually be very useful for heavy lifting without the lower body strength to support yourself.

>>49466651
>I'm looking at the book. They seem to be the crew of the main ship. Not that there's really much to go on, since the book is so light. But considering it has art of people on a deck in giant bulky diving suits, and a big open debriefing room with a projector, I'm going to chalk this up to you losing your marbles.

It's a submarine, not a rabbit hole. Of course it has open spaces - but to get AROUND it, you need to be able to maneuver through itsy-bitsy corridors, skip over objects, climb up and down ladders and run up stairs very, very frequently. I'm assuming that, like the crew of actual submarines, Frankie doesn't spend 24 hours a day manning his station. He's got drills to participate in, other duties to perform, emergency procedures he needs to be able to follow. Hell, to get IN AND OUT of the submarine he'll have to climb through a hatch. It's a military freaking vessel, not a holiday yacht. It can't afford to compromise operational efficiency or create flaws in the shape to accommodate the disabled just in case one of them REALLY wanted to serve in that specific role in the navy. You may claim "it's not a navy ship, they're freelancers", but the book repeatedly emphasizes the constraints freelance submariners work with. It's laughable to assume that they can afford to (ironically) cripple their operation to that degree just to recruit one individual with a disability that wouldve disqualified them anyway

If this was, like, an IDF submarine, and they had to be inclusive because the nation's political stability hanged on allowing everyone to serve in the army no matter how incompetent (which is whythe IDF has invented numerous "do nothing" bureaucratic roles to assign to people with no talents), fine. But in a reasonably managed operation? If you have a disability which makes you THAT MUCH inferior to someone without it, sorry - someone else will be picked over you. The navy isn't there to protect your feelings, it's there to protect your waters.

>>49466848
>>49466724

BOY HOWDY I SURE DO LOVE TALKING ABOUT SCION

>>49466705
Iunno. I see no problem with narrative limits. "Guns are rare" is fine with me.
Though I disagree with the premise of evil superpowered guns in the first place, so I'm just playing Uikku's Advocate.

>>49466848
I feel like you're really just trying to make this future science fiction character seem way worse than it is. Which gets right back to my point of "you're using a completely different company's game as an example of why this company will have ridiculous token characters that make your heteronormative cisgender white self uncomfortable".

>>49463804
pretty much this, the creators clearly stated AG as a clear influence.

It also lets us play through Ragnarok while still fucking ourselves over

Oh, defeated the personification of fire?
hope you like global iceages
killed the godess of monsters and life?
infertility for all.

Pretty fun game, got really, REALLY weird when you ascended to actual godhood.

TLDTR worked great as a storydriven game, actual combat driven gods got hilarious at the end, but loop-hole driven gods where fun as fuck.

We had the god of "light,innovation and physics"

File: 1473779620928.jpg (22KB, 300x213px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 300x213px

>>49463779
Can I play as a descendant of Kek?

>>49466876
>"Guns are rare" is fine with me.
But see, it's the same problem again. It's the 17th century, guns AREN'T rare (in the previous edition they were mildly expensive, which could somehow have been a balancing factor - but the new edition, being rules light and all, did away with the equipment system, and it IS both logical and appropriate for a pirate to be wearing a lot of guns...). There is no excuse within the "setting", no matter if you want to be historically accurate OR emulate the swashbuckling genre, not to have everyone strabbed with six pistols and a dagger. Wick essentially went and said that he's made a narrativist game which is all about the plot and the atmosphere and the descriptions and the setting... and then encouraged imposing an incredibly artificial limit on it for a PURELY mechanical reason, despite the fact that this blatantly placed the mechanics over the fluff in that particular incidence.

>>49466934

Probably not, but Heqet might be in the book if you really like frogs.

File: free council.png (1MB, 477x1340px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 477x1340px

>>49466876
>I feel like you're really just trying to make this future science fiction character seem way worse than it is. Which gets right back to my point of "you're using a completely different company's game as an example of why this company will have ridiculous token characters that make your heteronormative cisgender white self uncomfortable".
Yeah! Unlike those twerps at Evil Hat, OOP have always proven to be respectful, subtle and moderate about the treatments of such subjects, never ridiculously in your face!

>>49467007
How gay do you have to be before you get a glowing aura?

It's not a real inauguration of a White Wolf thread without at least one shit flinging fight. The SS Scion has now been christened and we can set sail!

What's with the name fags in this thread?

Kill yourself you attention whores.

>>49466955
Expensive means it might as well be rare. Also, it's only a fantasy 17th Century. Pathfinder's pirates only have guns if they're big bosses.

"Don't allow the players to have super mega awesome things and don't throw them at the players either" is a valid thing for a fluffy system.

>>49467007
Oh no, a gay pride parade, how terrible. You might as well be one of the people flipping out that a Mastigos was from Mogadishu.

>>49467020
Those two are Mages. That's from the Mage section on the Free Council, the Mage Order that finds magic in human social structure.

>>49467057
>Boohoo, why isn't everyone anonymous?

Also, Jakki, you literally spelt your own name wrong.

>>49467069
>Oh no, a gay pride parade, how terrible. You might as well be one of the people flipping out that a Mastigos was from Mogadishu.
If you really don't understand why that picture is problematic, you're a part of the problem.

>>49466840

Forget about it, they're peeved and they want us to know about it.

What god would I need to be the Scion of to have huge gains but only in my arms?

>>49467069

Because it's an anonymous image board you dip.

>>49467020
Freddy Mercury gay

>>49467069
>Expensive means it might as well be rare.
Mildly expensive. IIRC, they cost 20 guilder in 1st ed. That's a lot of your characters are wandering paupers, but have a single noble on your team, which is very, very, very likely, and everyone could buy three and you'll still have a metric fuckton of money to spare.

>>49467098
Truly the most problematic homophobes are gay people themselves. What with their pride parades and stuff.

>>49467057

I wear a trip in the /wodg/ this branched off from. I'll take it off if it's a hassle.

>>49467069

Where?

>>49467098
It isn't.

>>49467109
So? Clearly having a name is a viable option.

>>49467120
>Gilder
Was that ever a real money system or just for fantasy settings that want to sound real?
Honestly, I think the problem is just how Wick handles things, not the things itself.

>>49467144
>Where?
>>49466996
>aramajakki !UjLHOBOACk

>mildly interested in games about gods
>thread devolved into SJW shitflinging
Thanks for the reminder I should stay the fuck away from white wolf/onyx path games

>>49467109
>Anonymous image board
>Feature that allows you to put a name in a box, and even secure your identity.

No it isn't. Most of us just don't use all the features of the site.

>>49467136
Really? You're gay, and you don't understand why shoving the outdated, frankly insulting idea of the magical homo (and I'm specifically using the term because it shows no respect to actual, historical gender transgressive magical traditions, focusing instead purely on the shock factor of gay people being magic) down peoples throats so hard they start disliking it is a problem?

>>49467147
>Was that ever a real money system
Yes.

>>49467156
It's because of the culture of 4chan. If you want to have a name, go to Reddit. Trips are meant as tools for writefags and drawfags, not for your circlejerk buddies to recognize you.

>>49467165
... Really? Really?

Magical negro is an outdated and insulting media concept.

Magical homo? Really? In what, seriously. I feel like I need a list of problematic stories with magical homo, because that sounds terribly made up.

And seriously gay people, stop riding on the coattails of Black people. You can't just take every issue we've ever had and just replace some part with homo/gay/fag. It isn't that easy, at all.

>>49467186
Oh so it isn't a feature or rule on the site, just a 'culture'. A culture that some boards even have completely turned off, by the way.

Cultures change anon. Why not get in on that name action?

>>49467190
Magical homos were embarrassingly old back when oWoD slobbered all over them in the nineties.

>>49467165

That from Mage: the Awakening and depicts a faction that explicitly borrows modern symbols (like, say, those of the Pride movement) to fuel their magic. It isn't "being a flaming gay guy is magic," it's just about strong symbols.

Speaking of, Unknown Armies renamed its Mystic Hermaphrodite to the Sexual Rebis and does draw heavily on real gender transgressive occult traditions.

>>49467209
So embarrassingly old that they were never a real thing maybe?

>>49467222
>Speaking of, Unknown Armies renamed its Mystic Hermaphrodite to the Sexual Rebis and does draw heavily on real gender transgressive occult traditions.
That's because Unknown Army is written mainly by Greg Stolze, a man with actual talents. The Freak is a shining example of a transgressive character done well.

>>49467241
>tfw your Scion character started off as a UA character and has since gone on to become your fursona

>>49467156
Mostly out of social pressure.
I don't use it because I'm a contrarian and don't want people to be able to block me.

>>49467165
I feel like you vastly misunderstand the Magical Queer stereotype. A gay pride parade with two wizards from the group that sees power in human cultural groups is not problematic.

>>49467151
Let's talk about fucking Scion then. Though there's not really that much to talk about. We barely know the system beyond the core stuff.
Are the Titans still a thing?

>>49467190
>>49467228
The Magical Queer is most definitely an outdated cultural stereotype. "Magical" is usually metaphorical. A good example would be Angel, from RENT. Flamboyant, comes into the play with cash to spend on strangers (from killing a dog), and her death brings the group together.
For example: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalQueer
It's also not gay people riding the coat tails of blacks; it's straight people using them for the same kind of stereotypes.

Just because you for some reason don't think a thing was "real" doesn't mean no one ever used it.

>>49467228
It's in the same boat as the magical native americans, magical buddhists, magical drug users, magical feminists and magical goths the nineties were crazy about. Everyone who wasn't a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Male back in the day was depicted as magic in some kind of fucked up attempt to show how unique and important and powerful they are, but more often than not it just created the impression that people were thinking not being white was literally unnatural.

>>49467151

I mean, the shitflinging comes like it almost always does, where someone comes in going "Oh I sure hope/lets place our bets on how/do you thank that this [blatant hyperbole that only exists in a strip of Strong Female Protagonist or something] will happen!" and instead of ignoring it, someone (usually the same person in these Onyx Path related threads) always takes the bait and starts arguing incessantly, which is exactly what the first person wanted in the first place.

People just have to learn not to take the bait.

>>49467241
People jerking off to Greg Stolze gives me a bad impression of everything he's written.

>>49467258

Titans are still a thing, but the "the game is about fighting those evil Titans" was a dumb Greek imposition on the other Pantheons and is apparently lessened in 2e. I believe the Netjer get along pretty well with theirs.

>>49467258
>Are the Titans still a thing?
Yeah, though I hear they're getting altered for 2e a bit to make them less inherently antagonistic.

>>49467258
>I feel like you vastly misunderstand the Magical Queer stereotype. A gay pride parade with two wizards from the group that sees power in human cultural groups is not problematic.
Oh, fucking please. Why not show a Klan rally, then? Why not a public beheading in some shithole in the Arab Emirates? That's the power of a human cultural group, too. Would you have defended it with the same ardor if they'd done that?

>>49467263
>magical drug users, magical feminists and magical goths
I've never seen those last three. Well, unless the goths were explicitly magical witches, but never in the same way of the Magical Minority where they come out of nowhere and help the white protagonist learn a lesson and be better.
Most of the time feminists get used, it's a strawwoman of a second wave feminist bra burner.

>>49467282
So what exactly is the "point" now? I mean, is it just generic demigod adventures, as opposed to fighting back against a specific threat?

>>49467264
I don't think people are baiting so much as they actually believe their own bitching.

>>49467306
Well the point, I imagine, would be whatever the GM makes it.

>>49467207
because single lines of size 12 font saying anything other than "Anoymous" off out of the way in the cornor of the post's box where I have to actualy look for it triggers him.

besides that how is he supposed to shit up otherwise decent threads by wailing and gnashing his teeth like an autist over names if he also uses one?! How?!

>>49467316
Terrible move. Games like that need a focus.

>>49467258
>tvtropes

I see what the problem is. All the media that use this stereotype, are generally lame. I haven't seen any of these movies, and any of the TV shows I've seen that use it, are usually subverting it.

Also, all of this seems to be extremely recent. So I'm going to hold to my 'riding coat tails' comment.

>>49467306
>I've never seen those last three. Well, unless the goths were explicitly magical witches, but never in the same way of the Magical Minority where they come out of nowhere and help the white protagonist learn a lesson and be better.
Not the same guy, but I'm thinking like Betelgeuse or whatever it's spelled, or The Crow. I don't know roleplaying games but films of the era definitely seemed to be under the impression that goths are inherently special in some way. And that's before they get possessed by crow spirits.

>>49467306

Building your Legend and either joining your Pantheon or starting a new one, plus your usual monster of the week/find the magical thing/your rival is an asshole plots. Tezcatlipoca's vampires causing trouble? Need to heist a Relic out of a museum to fight a giant wyrm? Anubis and The Dagda warring over the dead? All valid.

>>49467304
Do you find something negative about pride parades?

The Free Council are all about free assembly, rights, etc etc. They are fairly 'young' and 'left leaning' as a group. Making membership in those other organizations unlikely.

>>49467324
I'm just speculating.

>>49467336
Oh man. Can you do that?

Start a new pantheon with your party and a few allied Scions? How would that even work? Would you need worshippers? Would you need to represent something, like an area or a people?

>>49467363

Can you? That's the premise of the game, anon!

Your character has a Legend as their 'power stat,' defining their personal myth and what they come to embody. All a God really is is somebody with really, really high Legend.

>>49467345
>Do you find something negative about pride parades?
No, and irrelevant to the discussion. I said they were playing up magical gays for the shock value, you said they were just showing the power of cultural groups. I responded by saying that this seems like a shaky justification given the sheer number of suitable example they could've used for that purpose that wouldn't have done the magical gay thing they intended.

This is about poor design choices, not politics. Trying to change the subject by calling people who point it out on their supposed intolerance just makes it all the clearer that it was a poor choice.

>>49467304
Anon, you're bitching that a gay pride parade showed up in a game about wizards.

>>49467316
I feel like there needs to be some kind of conflict.

>>49467318
To be fair, it's not like other people aren't finding plenty of ways to shit up the thread.

>>49467331
You've never seen it, so that means it's not real? What does "riding coat tails" even mean? It's literally part of a larger "people who are different are exotic and magical [and help out us white/straight folk]"

>>49467333
The Magical Minority trope is more of a "The Other is here to help us with their Otherness magic" sort of thing.
Think The Green Mile.

>>49467336
The problem with that is that building your legend works best when there's mythical need for you to do things.

>>49467363
Yes, you can go make your own pantheon with blackjack and hookers. How, we don't know since that'd be a God book kind of thing.

>>49467393
>for the shock value
You're the only one who's shocked. It's not a poor design choice at all, you just have an issue with a gay pride parade.

This whole fucking train of comments started by someone bitching that they'd "force" minorities into the game.

Also, earlier I said "relevant" but forgot to link this
https://youtu.be/-r51IZ2qiq4

>>49467336
Oh Christ, it's Beast all over again.

>>49467380
So basically your actions as you progress through the game are defining your mythology, so you can craft how you're viewed by followers? Every move you make affecting your future legend? Fuck yes, I want this.

>>49467393
Well I can't really agree since I don't find showing some mages in a pride parade an example of your 'magical gay' idea.

One, because it means showing a gay person as magical is the same as the full magical gay stereotype which requires showing gay people as somehow inherently better, and able to show up to normal White people problems to magically fix everything. The image doesn't do any of that, in fact it sort of shows the mages as the most obnoxious people (to normies) at a gay pride parade.

On top of that, your 'magical gay' problem means that any gay mage is now problematic. Which is inherently limiting to media at all, and idiotic. It isn't like this is the only picture of a mage in the whole book. It is one of many, showing many different people of many different social groups. The gay people aren't special here, they are one of many.

So you taking something only YOU have a problem with, and then comparing it to beheadings and the klan, means that you consider those equal.

So no anon, you are the shit, explain yourself.

>>49467394

Apep still wants to devour the sun. Surtr is still out there trying to burn Yggdrasil. Dionysos still has his band of orgiastic lunatics who famously tore Orpheus to death. Mythology is rife with threats.

Beyond that, you might be a loyal Scion of Zeus but you might have a brother who really wants to castrate and dethrone him. Tlaloc is still compelling people to drown folks. There are vampires and werewolves and wizards and jotun and necromancers and kitsune and who knows whatever else.

Think of it as a pulp or a superheroes game and use mythology as flavor.

>>49467443
Scion's Gods aren't really about amassing worshipers.

>>49467435
No, unlike Beast there's a plethora of actual goals you can pursue included.. Its more like DnD where you are adventurers but the game can be politics, dungeon crawls, or exploration but the game isn't as inherently focused as a WoD gameline. It isn't like 'you're a spooky beast, go be spooky and maybe a Hero migth show up or something sometime?'.

>>49467435
It's really not. Beast has very little that's not stolen from other gamelines. Scion takes from within its own gameline, just like every other game does.

Oh great a bunch of white people in America making another edition of a game where they rape and whitewash other cultures GODS into mindless violence roelplaying things. What a great time to be alive.

>>49467486
"You're a hero, be heroic and maybe a monster might show up or something".

You ain't helping the case.

>>49467519
Can we start a petition to stop this from being made due to their cultural appropriation?

>>49467521
Not him, but...

>Thinking you have to be a hero

>>49467519
Religion is dead, gods are fake. Get over it anon. May as well enjoy your old storytelling traditions with new storytelling traditions.

Not digging the Story Path system. Far too much FATE for my tastes. And this is the system they intend to relaunch Aeon/Trinity in? Definitely less than thrilled.

>>49467541
Go ahead and make a petition.

It is already on the way to getting made. You'll have as much impact as every other petition in the world.

>>49467559
I blame Jakki for this FATE meme.

>>49467521
You realize you're retarded, right?

>>49467454
>So you taking something only YOU have a problem with, and then comparing it to beheadings and the klan, means that you consider those equal.
Don't put words in my mouth. Especially using wonky logic like that.

I deliberately used the most extreme example applicable to show the absurdity of the situation. If all they cared about was the "culture group" factor, the Klan would've fit just the same. I don't think that this was the case, I think they specifically wanted to show gay people because they have some twisted idea about how gay people somehow need them to show the world how amazing and special they are. Could it have been just a coincidence, and of all the cultural groups, wanting to show nothing but the fact that it is a cultural group, they chose the gay people? Possible, but given all we know about OOP and their bizarre relationship with minorities, less likely in my opinion than they were trying to push some poorly constructed, internally inconsistent agenda.

>>49467264

To be fair, it IS Aspel who responded, nobody likes Aspel because they can't shut up.

>>49467559

The CofD system has been borrowing pretty heavily from FATE and other games for years now. I'm sorry you don't like it, but you should've seen this coming.

For me, I'm a huge FATE nerd and overjoyed by the look of things. There's some fun little crunch there.

>>49467558
>Religion is dead
Only white peoples because they have no culture, religion begins culture and sustain it the fact that white people can't even be arsed to go to church and mumble a few words only shows how fucking cultureless they are. Hell even black people do fucking Christianity better than the fucking white people.

>>49467581
I don't go into WoDG, is he this much of a faggot there, too?

Is atamajakki literally a shill for OOP or something? I get it that not everyone can hate everything OP do 100% with a burning passion all the time every time, and I'm not going full /pol/ "the only way someone could possibly like this is if they're paying paid do", but like, does anyone remember him ever saying anything on OOP related threads, ever, that was against what could be imagined to be the "company line"? Like, this goes way beyond the behavior of a simple fan, no matter how adoring.

He's always either defending their products, fighting with people who attack them, or leaps out of the woodwork to sing their praises in some pretty awkward ways. And somehow, whenever he starts to, "other" posters begin leaping out of the woodwork, too, to agree with him and have conversations sounding like something from a cheesy commercial about how amazing OOP products are they're totally going to order three right now.

And then there's the namefaggotry thing he insists on.

Is there something I'm missing? Is he like a member of OOP or something, and it's supposed to be well known around the threads?

>>49467610

The other poster is Aspel.

>>49467610
OPP, goddammit phone. Why is "OOP" even in autocorrect? When is it ever used?

>>49467521
It isn't like VtR has a set mode built in, but vampire stories naturally fall into certain thematic realms which helps people. Scion is the same as any other RPG from OPP in that respect. It is just about being people forging their own legends and having epic adventure in the modern world rather than the night to night scrabble of blood and kindred politics.

The problem with Beast is there's no culture, no politics, no reason to do anything but sit on your ass and spook people. Scion has more of its blood shared with Mage than anything else, and there is politics and people to conflict with and goals to actually achieve rather than sit around.

>>49467610

I don't really like Werewolf: the Forsaken, any of the WoD lines other than Wraith, and any of the other games save Scion. I'm lucky that I like a lot of their stuff and that their politics line up with my own, but I'm not an employee or anything. Wish I was, though!

My namefagging is solely because /cofdg/ turned accusing anons of being me into a meme and I figured being obviously myself would stop that, which it did. I'll take it off in this thread if folks want?

>>49467610
He has a few gamelines he doesn't like, and doesn't like the slow support for others.

He just also wants to be hired as a freelancer by them, and one of the big heads at OP stops by the /wodg/. So when his name is on, he is super on OP's jock as much as possible.

>>49467635
>It isn't like VtR has a set mode built in
It does now, with the Strix, in response to the same issue. Vampire: The Masquerade had a very clear framework with its Sect conflicts, Requiem in comparison often made players feel like it was aimlessly throwing them in the middle of the world going "Go be vampires! Do something vampirelike!".

>>49467660
I've found the best way to generate VtR stories is try to keep players from a small number of covenants and find goals that either can unite them or cause friction as they both try to achieve things for their own group.

So me and my group loved first edition after we houseruled a lot of stuff for the sake of balance and their are a few thinks we want from this edition.
1) Playable Titanspawn/Nonhuman scions. We wanna play Dwarves, Nymphs, Spartoi and Giants mainly, And I think one of us wants to play a Fenrir. Our group was always Aesir and Dodekatheon with all of them being Children of Hephastus, Poseidon, Athena, Loki, and Hel and trying to get our half-siblings/cousins as sidekicks followers cause we couldn't be non-human like them.
2) Balance, as long as its better than 1e we will be happy.

Did someone seriously just make the comparison that the new Scion game is similar to fucking D&D in its aimlessness intending for it to sound good? D&D is about fucking murderhobos. Its the source of the fucking term. If Scion's default direction is "let the characters wander around until they find a monster to fight", no amount of throwing the words "mythological", "heroic", "epic" or "awesome" will make it better.

>>49467593
I wanted a Scion game that wasn't completely mechanically borked, not mechanics-LITE. This design trend is really starting to irk me.

File: 111.jpg (45KB, 598x350px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 598x350px

>>49467705
I feel you, man. I really do.

Holy shit, I'm seeing a lot of people needing the system to hold their hand in order to provide direction as a GM.

You guys must fucking suck at running a game. Just give your players shit to do. Have stuff happen. If there's a goal players want to achieve, accommodate that and let them work towards it. It's not hard.

>>49467705

There's plenty of mechanics, just not ones you like. We've also seen 50 pages out of two several hundred page books.

>>49467463
>Dionysos still has his band of orgiastic lunatics who famously tore Orpheus to death
That was ghosts.

>>49467584
You're right. You're comparing it to the Klan because you want to come up with the most ridiculous example possible. You're bitching for no fucking reason.

Also, no, the Klan probably is not something the Free Council would approve of. It's a religious terrorist organization. If any of the Orders were all about that, it would be the Seers, with Guardians in second.

You're the only one with twisted ideas here. You have a problem with gayness in the book.

>>49467519
>>49467594
Even I can tell this is just a troll.

>>49467747
That's even worse. You're going to have wishy washy semi freeform mechanics, at least make it so they don't get in the way. It's where Fate failed. All it accomplished was a mechanic too cumbersome to ignore during gameplay while not having enough depth to be rewarding to engage.

>>49467610
You are literally getting mad that someone is excited for a new game.

What the fuck is wrong with /tg/?

>>49467658
He's repeatedly complained about things. Besides, if Arcane Arts can get hired, anyone can.

>>49467775
>That was ghosts.
Maniads, actually (no, I don't know how you English speakers spell it and I don't give a shit, that's how it's pronounced). They were either a type of nymph or just plain crazy drunk women, depending on how far into Greek history you want to crawl.

>>49467793
What does this even mean.
>Make sure your mechanics don't get in the way of the mechanics

>>49467705
Blame 3e. It basically revived the industry, so for a lot of people the default state is a horribly bloated mass of splatbooks and needless rules. The trend for rules-light systems is a response to that, since if lots of rules -> clusterfuck, then the best way to have a well designed system is to chop out as much as possible. I'm just glad that I've got enough systems I enjoy that came from pre-2000 thought.

>>49464007
>Scion 1e was a pretty amazing idea borked up with pretty awful mechanics.
Storyteller in a nutshell

File: Storyteller system.jpg (34KB, 750x562px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 750x562px

>>49467839
No, this is.

>>49467828
>Make sure your mechanics don't get in the way of the mechanics
Are you seeing double? Are you drunk? The word mechanics was mentioned in exactly the context it was intended. The implication, which was clear from the post and is a common argument against Fate, is that the mechanics get in the way of GAMEPLAY.

But of course, you're at the point where you'd probably pick at spelling errors if it allowed you to continue responding to criticism of your favorite systems. The other guy is a gay hating jerk, right? No other reason whatsoever in the world he could possibly have problem with that picture?

>>49467894
>The other guy is a gay hating jerk, right? No other reason whatsoever in the world he could possibly have problem with that picture?
I admit I don't understand his problem, but I do agree with the sentiment. Being gay myself and opposed to the very idea of pride parades in general. I think they're embarrassing and asking to offend people so that the community can act appalled at how offended they are. It's setting us back more than it does good.

>>49467705
Core system document is 100+ pages right now, it isn't mechanically lite at all. I'd say it is moderately crunchy. Where the fuck is this mechanics lite meme coming from? Is this your fault, atamajakki?

>>49466250
That sounds like Godbound's chargen. Is everyone just ripping FATE these days?

Because that's a good idea

>>49467963
That's fine. I mean, pride parades are a sort of 'militant pro-gay' display, so not every person is going to be behind them.

At the end of the day, both are necessary. Because if everyone was quiet gay trying to fit in in a way that doesn't disturb anyone, can you imagine the amount of gay erasure the world would get away with?

Outsiders get behind change when the problem becomes personal to them (like their kid, friend, neighbor, coworker turning out to be gay and okay), which requires the kind get along gay. But without stuff like pride, the amount of people who would come out in general would be so low, they wouldn't get to meet their get along gay, and therefore they could still see gays as a distant problem that can be ignored or oppressed.

It takes a gay village, anon.

I mean, you can still hate on pride. I sort of hate them too. But mostly because I'm not gay, and hate parades in general.

>>49467996
Fate's aspects are a great idea, and them being used in other games is a good step in game design. That's especially true for Godbound, since it allows for specific talents without bogging it down with skills. I'd be reading Scion's rules to see how they use it, but I can't imagine it making the game worse.

Watch Colette show up and start sperging out now that Godbound was mentioned.

>>49467881
I don't get it.

File: 1st-annual-gay-pride-march-1970.jpg (499KB, 960x614px) Image search: [Google]

499KB, 960x614px

>>49468031
It's possible to be gay without being a fag, anon.

>>49468061
... Is that Ashton Kutcher holding the sign on the left?

>>49468061
Pretty much. Just because I have a boyfriend doesn't mean I have to enjoy walking about wearing a pink feather boa and a thong waving a giant rainbow dildo, and it definitely doesn't mean I'm the kind of asshat who does it in people's faces then acts shocked when they call me a deviant.

>>49468100
And the point of my post >>49468031
is, you don't have to.

So... cool I guess.

File: pepethefrog.jpg (28KB, 975x600px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 975x600px

>>49468031
>not wanting to get killed by good ol' boys
>"militant"

Alright so firstly why the hell is there a debate over gays and faggotry in a scion thread?

secondly to those who have read the preview, does it look good? Is it well put together?

>>49468125
It seems like whenever there's a pride parade in this country, they absolutely INSIST on it passing through the most religious, conservative neighborhoods, someone always gets killed, and then they always pull the exact same fucking crying game in front of the media. It makes you feel like they're doing it deliberately, angering people so that they can fish for sympathy when people lash out at them. Like the rumor about how Hamas places children in the way of Israeli airstrikes so they can get pics of poor dead children, or something.

They know people will be murdered if they insist on passing right in front of the church where the fucking angry mob is and taunt them with their rainbow dildos. They're literally willing to sacrifice a couple of lives every parade so they have material to cry about on television.

It's abhorrent.

>>49468175
>They were asking for it, dressing like that.

This is a good thread

>>49468204
Uh, yeah. They literally were. That's what's so mind boggling. They came right there to the angry mob and dared them to attack them, then acted shocked and saddened when they did. And they do it every single time. It's not like they don't know it'll happen, they just figured a news story about a gay dude being murdered at a pride parade brings them all the sympathy points. And they're willing to pay that price. It's repulsive.

>>49468204
Exactly.

>>49468238
>>49468175
Where do you live? Oman?

>>49468204
>I can't believe i got robbed walking around the shittiest part of detroit while waving around a thousand dollars.

fuck off. it's not victim blaming to say someone made a suboptimal choice. bad things fucking happen. acting as if some people won't behave in a predatory manner when you are near them looking like their usual target is fucking retarded.

>>49467810
>You are literally getting mad that someone is excited for a new game.
>What the fuck is wrong with /tg/?

sounds like buisness as usual to me, remeber /tg/'s credo in life is "stop liking what I don't like" after all.
Warhammer fags shit up Warmahordes threads
Warmahordes fags shit up Warhammer threads
Both shit up Age of Sigmar threads
3.x fags shit up OSR threads
Everyone and their mother shits up 3.x threads
and anyone that show's an ounce of enthusiasm for anything that will cost money is a shill, or reddit, or whatever other buzzword is the boogeyman of the week

>>49468284
It's not even that, it's the equivalent of walking around the shittiest part of Detroit wearing a "White Is Beautiful" t-shirt and going "I GOT A THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR THE FIRST NIGGER BRAVE ENOUGH TO SHOOT ME!".

I've been to my fair share of pride parades, and in more than one country, at that. I won't say it happens in 100% of the cases and it's never everyone, but there're always at least a few assholes who make a point of literally walking over to and taunting the most violently unstable looking skinhead in the crowd.

>>49467631
Out Of Print.

>>49467881
The reason nWoD was so great is because it gets rid of the extra steps.

>>49467894
In what way is that happening, anon. You need to actually explain your statements.

>>49467963
>>49468031
>>49468061
>>49468175
>>49468238
The point of a pride parade is to make it incredibly clear that:
a) you exist
b) you refuse to not exist
You can think they're crash and still understand the point of them. I too once had the "why be so openly gay?" attitude. But then I realize that the concept of "passing" and hiding who you are is stupid, and that people shouldn't have to do that. And for one day in July, they stop doing that, and they come together in solidarity to celebrate the fact that they refuse to be forced into hiding.

The fact that being at a pride parade is dangerous is sort of the reason they exist. If it wasn't dangerous to be gay, there would be no need for pride.
https://youtu.be/CjfZVCWEE0w

Why is this thread that's supposed to be about Scion filled with the anti-SJW circlejerking that the /wodg/ usually gets? And why is >>49468031 the only one who actually gets it?
>I hate parades in general
Don't be a curmudgeon. Although faires are better, and come with snacks.

>>49467967
Because people see elements from Fate so they think "it's completely rules lite" without actually reading it.

>>49468032
Fate's biggest problem is that it's too rules lite.
>Collete
pls don't summon Touhou.

>>49468204
>>49468175
>>49468238
>>49468284
Sure, taking a pride parade through an ultraconservative ultrareligious neighborhood is idiotic.

That does not mean that we should make an exception under which these conservative religious people are allowed to murder said idiots.

The principle of the matter still is that one side is clearly in their right, and the other side is clearly in the wrong.
Just because it's prudent to avoid being exposed to the violence of madmen, that doesn't make violent, murderous, illegal acts any less unacceptable or illegal. It doesn't change the principle of the matter.

>>49468336
>Why is this thread that's supposed to be about Scion filled with the anti-SJW circlejerking that the /wodg/ usually gets?

Because you're in it Aspel. "Flies to shit" and all, you know?

I think the problem illustrated with the parades is that they're deliberately throwing lives away to further their cause.

But I really don't know, I really don't care, and I wanna just fucking talk about the children of gods in a modern setting and their crazy adventures.

Does anyone know if American Gods is a good read?

>>49468453
Great read, getting a series soon too.

The follow up is also pretty great.

>>49468453

American Gods is great. Gaiman has a handful of better books, but not many.

The other big inspiration for Scion 2e is The Wicked + The Divine, which is a very, very pretty graphic novel series.

>>49468522
Thats a bit worrying, as W+D is all about Gods as Pop Stars/vice versa, while I vastly prefer the Mythological world to be somewhat secret.

>>49468479
I think Anansi Boys is actually better than American God's.

>>49468606
I would agree. But I read them at different points so I try not to make that judgement outright.

But yeah, Anansi Boys felt more focused.

>>49468406
That's a tautology. Obviously I'm the fly in this analogy.

>>49468453
>I think the problem illustrated with the parades is that they're deliberately throwing lives away to further their cause.
No they're not. No one is doing that.
Also, need I point out that the "cause" in question is being treated as human beings?

Also, yes, American Gods is great.

>>49468579
It's not. The myths are real. The Gods never went away. They're not everywhere fucking shit up on a daily basis, but they exist and they're real and they're not secret and hidden. That's more of a WoD thing.

>>49467881
What were they thinking?

>>49468579

Scion has no Masquerade, if I remember right.

>>49468636
Nothing, just like the people who made Storyteller.

>>49468522
I read W+D and really don't like that public exposure level. From Gillen's actual god based work I really prefer his marvel stuff, where superheroes and villains may be public entities (everyone knows Loki and Thor obviously) but the focus is on their stories rather than the public focus angle. Also Leah a cute

>>49468634
>They're not everywhere fucking shit up on a daily basis, but they exist and they're real and they're not secret and hidden.
Playtest anon here. The test has basically no lore in it aside from what's wrapped up in abilities, but there's a quality you can give to NPCs that amounts to their being hard disbelievers in the supernatural even when confronted with it. I don't know if that's in the freely shown stuff or what.

I think that things really aren't actively hidden, but aren't really in the public eye or consciousness. So more American Gods than anything else. I could of course be 100% wrong and making an inference without seeing the setting document.

>>49468637
It does have it that theres a 'veil' on reality so mortals can't see whats really going on, so for instance fire giants appear as 7-8 foot tall gingers with serious burns. Odd, but still jusifiable under the way the 'real' world works.

IIRC it doesnt cover absolutely everything, and mortals can discover the truth, but its very rare, and it isnt encouraged as mortals can influence Fate, and the last time the Gods let a regular Humans make heavy use of magic Hitler came to power.

>>49465343
>Gaullish
Neato.

>>49468775
I hope they keep the "freed from fate" thing.

>>49468805
I don't know if that can work, fatebinding is the reason the gods retreat from the world and a primary component in the GM toolbox for interesting character developments. Maybe they can have more control over it or something?

>>49468805

When they add the Incarnate genesis, it'll be real fun to play a dead Pantheon coming back from zero.

>>49468940
>Incarnate genesis
What?

>>49469107
Playing a reincarnation of a god rather than their children or someone they imbued with power.

>>49468637
Players are supposed to do the opposite of upholding the Masquerade. You're suppose to spread your legend so people start worshiping you.

>>49469162
There's practical cult benefits apparently which is a delight.

>>49469107

Scion 1e exclusively had Scions as the children of gods, but 2e adds several other Geneses: those Chosen by the gods, those Created by divine hands, and later, the Incarnate splinters of their divinity.

>no option for people that steal power from the gods

Shit ass game, as expected of WW

Jakki let's make Scion general a thing when this thread dies to build up hype

>>49469293

I'm pretty sure there were 4 Geneses, not counting Incarnate, so jakki's probably missing a couple.

>>49465324
>>49465376
>>49465398
I'd like to point out that they're not necessarily added as a full pantheon, there's just a chapter on them in the "Companion". Which means it could be a chapter on using the Orixa from a Voudun perspective.

>>49469299

I'd planned to do precise that!

/scion/ - Scion General!

Scion 2e is now on Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/scion-2nd-edition-tabletop-rpg

Scion is an urban fantasy game about the adventures of the children and chosen of the old gods. You can read a a preview of the book here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7FqViticwNubWNsYjBPQmdIY2M/view

Greco-Roman Pantheon preview: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01LwCGSbE8kZmtQNHJjd3cyRkE/view?usp=sharing

Thread topic: EXAMPLE

>>49469313

They're Born, Chosen, Created, and Incarnate.

>>49469315

The Loa have been described as half a Pantheon, and will probably be new Mantles and Virtues for the Orisha. The Nemetendevos and Yazata should be full Pantheons.

>>49469381
In honor of my glorious Ahanu character the first OP image can be the Algonquin seal

Any idea when the rest of the rules will be made available? I want to try out the ruleset...

>>49469400
No it should be an actual harp seal. They're adorable.

>>49469437
They're not going to put the whole set up beforehand, OPP learned with Beast and that's not going to happen again for anything. Probably sizeable chunks of various systems to give people a taste.

>>49467363
You could do it in 1e and it seems like something they're unlikely to cut. We don't know the specifics, but generally by the time you're powerful enough to be a god, you'll already have worshippers and shit. Unless you've gone out of your way to avoid it, maybe.

GAELIC CAMPAIGN GET!

>>49467463
>Surtr is still out there trying to burn Yggdrasil
Joke's on him, Charlemagne already did it.

>>49467631
Object Oriented Programming.

>>49467829
It's also just a fuckton of work to balance a lot of rules, whereas rules lite takes less work.

>>49469545
What if Charlemagne was a titanspawn child of Surtr

>>49468336
I would legitimately like to hear touhoufag's opinion on the early access. It's bound to be in-depth and well thought out.

>>49469381
>Loa
That sounds appropriate. Do you know if we migth see Santería/Lucumí and other syncretisms?

>>49469472
Except that Beast worked out well for them. It's a better game, and they learned what didn't work.
That aside, they've released more than enough of Scion to know people like it.

>>49467829
>>49469610
It's more that games realize they don't need to try to simulate every little thing and have it all be resolved separately.

>>49469638
Is that sarcasm or are you for real?

>>49469686
I'm for real. I like hearing his opinions.

>>49469686
Don't need to doesn't mean it's never a good thing. Look at Song of Swords.

>the basic "get the product" backer level is $85
>even the "give money just because" level is $5 instead of the usual $1
>being stingy even with the fucking PDFs
Why?

>>49469742
jews

>>49469742
Because normally they lose money on their Kickstarters?

>>49469742

Two hardcover books and shipping cost money, details at 11. Don't forget that Chaosium bankrupted itself by undercharging for a Kickstarter.

>>49469742
What?

The basic 'get the product' backer level is 10$. 40$ if you want a physical book.

At least don't lie when you're trolling.

So who was Salvador Dali a Scion of?

>>49469831
Tezcatlipoca

>>49467590
Oh fucking christ I should have realized. Another thread ruined by that shit-stain.

>>49470317
Grow the fuck up

>>49463834
Very inclusive, Onyx path does a fantastic job making sure Trans, non-binarym and gender fluid individuals as well as minorities all get representation in their books.

They even make sure they use proper pronouns like zim and zir.

>>49470483
bait.jpg

>>49465349
That's a signature, though that is a bad choice of location.

>>49469806
Core is two books. To get those two physical books, it's $85. A PDF is not a product, and can be gained for free online once it's available, so it's essentially just a higher tier of "give us money purely to show support" with rewards being purely sentimental in value.

>>49470719

By that logic, a physical book is free because you can steal it off a shelf.

>>49469381
>Yazata
I bet this is going to be super fucking historically inaccurate.

>>49470740

The game as a whole isn't 100% accurate. They merged Bast and Sekhmet, for one.

>>49470732
A physical book costs money to produce and stealing it would entail risk. This is not true of digital products and they therefore cannot be considered to be infinitely abundant. PDFs, on the other hand, are effectively free once they are created, just as air is free as long as forests exist, even though you pay no money to the owners of those ecological resources. Paying a game designer to make a game via kickstarter is thus equivalent to paying some ecological group to impede the destruction of the Amazon: It's a morally good thing to do, but other people will still benefit from your actions without paying. A physical book, on the other hand, is more like getting a fruit from the trees. There's a limited number, and resources went into producing it, and you can't realistically get it without paying. You could take seeds and grow your own tree, just as you could print out a PDF, but it would take more money and effort and the end product might lack in some qualities.

tl;dr: No.

>>49470771
While that's stupid, it's nowhere near the level of bullshit that I bet they're gonna pull on the ancient Zoroastrian shit that nobody remembers.

>>49470802

Why so skeptical?

>>49467207
Fuck off newfag. Anonymity is the one thing that sets 4chan apart from the rest of the toxic waste websites. Conformation to both board and site culture is what preserves quality. There is literally no point in having a name other than attracting unnecessary attention to yourself. If you want attention then make interesting posts or participate in discussion. If you want a name to be recognized on the internet then make a tumblr and start drawing porn of anime characters.

>>49470906
Do you honestly believe 4chan has 'preserved quality?'

Like 25% of posts on the site are claims that someone is 'new' to the site, 'too young' to be on the site, or an 'invader' from another site. But somehow the quality has been preserved.

lol

>>49470875
Because think about it, what is a Yazata? It's a super fucking general term. Even if they pick a specific time period and set of sources, then what?

>>49470928
The posts you mention, though your percentage is obviously bullshit, are indeed attempts to preserve quality by excluding people such as yourself.

>lol
>>>/global/rules/6

>>49470961
See, I actually care about the quality of content. What that actually requires is change. Clearly, the crusade of anon does nothing for actual quality of posts. It just leads to trolls and worse.

Names are the future, anon.

>>49470946

Netjer, Theoi, Kami, and the like all just mean god. All the Pantheons do that.

>>49471000
As you have seen (and as I have already explained) names draw unnecessary attention. No pointless namefagging will generate any posts other than different variations of "fuck off, namefag". No shilling from an obvious newbabby will change a pillar of board culture that has been present since 4chan's inception.

How does having a name create quality anyway? Give me one logical reason.

>>49471292
Accountability for your actions, and a history of behavior.

No hiding behind samefagging. No pretending to do something you never did. A person who creates content can be counted on. A person who only shitposts will be ignored or filtered for it. There is a reason artists and other content creators are 'allowed' to do it. We count on them to create, and in return they are allowed to cultivate an audience and have a history.

Sorry, you only wanted one reason. I gave you three.

>>49471331
>accountability
No, there's none of that. All that can happen as a result is that people will say "I don't like you, your behavior is odious". Anyone who namefags on 4chan is totally inured to that.

>a history of behavior
By that argument, it destroys quality. It means that a post is (or at least, may be) judged based on other posts, and not on its own merit.

>No hiding behind samefagging.
There's no such thing as hiding on 4chan. All posts are inherently equal aside from their contents. The number of people on the other side of a computer for a group of posts isn't really relevant, though if all of them are made by one or a few people, that's obvious without a name.

>No pretending to do something you never did.
Such pretense is meaningless anyway, because you're fucking Anonymous. I could tell you right now that I have a masters degree in proving your dumb ass wrong. I could have a related degree, I could be a high school dropout. It doesn't fucking matter because I'm anonymous anyway. Someone can only issue such identity-based deceit if they have an identity.

>A person who creates content can be counted on.
A person actively creating content can use a name. That's pretty much what it's for. Though, it's more because that's a case where the name is actually useful than for "counting on" someone, which sounds kind of fellatory.

>A person who only shitposts will be ignored or filtered for it.
If only.

>There is a reason artists and other content creators are 'allowed' to do it. We count on them to create, and in return they are allowed to cultivate an audience and have a history.
Bullshit. The name is useful in that case, and generally useful enough to counter the downsides – though I think some artists take liberties here. But it's not for self-aggrandizement, that's pointless hubris which isn't some inherent reward, and should not be desired by anyone in the first place.

Kiss me, I'm irish

>>49471331
>Accountability for your actions, and a history of behavior.
That's literally the opposite of what makes this site unique. Unlike the shithole websites such as twitter, reddit, or tumblr that you likely infest, you are not accountable for what you post. That's the magic of 4chan, friendo, it preserves the mentality of being able to say what you want to anyone without consequence. Hell, the whole internet used to be like that until stupid social networking sites like MySpace and Facebook flooded it with normies. I remember when you'd get laughed at for using your real name anywhere on the net, though you're probably too young to remember

>No hiding behind samefagging.
Very few people actually do this and no one really cares when they do. It's a non-issue and arguably part of the charm.

>There is a reason artists and other content creators are 'allowed' to do it.
Actually plagiarism is the reason. Good art and decent green are hard to come by, and someone reposting images or stories claiming them to be original is just a poor show. It's also that our culture allows it becasue, again, fresh original content is valuable and only when you provide it do you deserve to have a name. If you just discuss things without creating content, you don't deserve one becasue the opinion of you, me, him, her, and them about as valuable as dirt.

>>49471417
Yeah, no one really believes in your anonymous communist manifesto.

Having every post 'stand on its own quality' is pointless, because they are small and pointless things individually. The board is a conversation, not endless posts in a vacuum. The guy who responds to your comment, is he the same one you were talking to before, or a third person interjecting? There is a difference there, and they create a difference in the quality of the post.

Creating an artificial number of people responding to a post does make a difference. Because if anon A feels like anon B, C, D, and E all don't like his idea, he may drop it regardless of the quality of his post. That can lower future quality by removing what could have been a quality poster, future content creator, etc. Instead, anon A was just speaking to anon B four times.

Artists survive on self-importance. The moment you make a content creator feel like one among many, they stop creating. So as much as you may disagree with self-aggrandizement, you need it if you want quality content.

Great anon content creators are historically short-lived.

>>49471488
>Part of the charm

Right, you're real charming. No, this website is as much a shitshow as twitter, reddit, and tumblr. It isn't special, it isn't unique.

The only reason to be here instead of somewhere else is ease of access to certain topics. Hell, 4chan isn't even good for getting pirated material anymore, just find the specific pirate reddit for whatever you are looking for and they will probably have it before 4chan does, and a cleaner link.

So the 'charm' of 4chan becomes having people yell idiotic stuff loudly because they can get away with it.

A whole site reduced down to an internet version of the 'Penis Game'. Charming.

>>49471495
>>49471541
You know what happens if we started using names and tried too hard to have "quality discussion"? We become reddit. That's not just me using a buzzword, that's literally what they're doing on reddit right now. And guess what, reddit is a website that is unanimously considered to be a wasteland of actual honest discussion becasue not only artists thrive on self importance, EVERYONE does with your silly little upvote/downvote system. That website's system creates a culture where if you have an opinion different from the accepted norm, you are essentially censored by being downvoted into oblivion, and the measure of a poster is not the content or discussion he creates, but how much he fits into the crowd. It has become the internet's largest circlejerk. Grab the cock of the guy next to you and start jacking until you hit the front page.

>>49471495
>Having every post 'stand on its own quality' is pointless, because they are small and pointless things individually.
And they need not be more.

>The guy who responds to your comment, is he the same one you were talking to before, or a third person interjecting? There is a difference there
The only difference is the one you make by your own perception. There isn't any difference that matters.

>Creating an artificial number of people responding to a post does make a difference. Because if anon A feels like anon B, C, D, and E all don't like his idea, he may drop it regardless of the quality of his post.
The flaw there lies in anon A for valuing numbers over the logic actually in those posts. It doesn't matter if he's talking to one person with a complicated viewpoint that he breaks up (for better presentation, because he mulls it over in his head over time, or for whatever reason) or with multiple people who have varied but simpler perspectives.

>Artists survive on self-importance.
Shitty artists, maybe. The more you foster this mindset, the more you slide the balance away from artists providing enough benefit to balance out their identities.

>The moment you make a content creator feel like one among many, they stop creating.
Only the sort you speak of. Artists who make quality stuff usually care a lot more about their work than about their own egos, and get their sense of fulfillment from how people respond to what they make, not from how people blow them in 4chan threads.

>Great anon content creators are historically short-lived.
So's the greatness of individual nonymous content creators. I think the only real difference is that when someone with a name continues to stick around past their prime in whatever project you remember them from, you notice their continued existence and you connect their different projects.

>>49471705
Yeah, 4chan would go downhill fast if our upvote and downvote system had names attached.

OH WAIT, there is no vote system.

>>49471488
Faggots like you are half the reason that faggots like him exist.

The lack of accountability should be because you don't need to be shamed into acting reasonably, not because you want to shitpost like the devil with his dick on fire.

Also, pseudononymous posting is functionally the same as nonymous posting for these purposes. I doubt Atama Jakki is his real legal name, and even if it is, he'd be doing something that few tripfags do, and which is fundamentally not necessary to maintain an identity.

>plagiarism
If you'd actually been here in the old days you talk about, you'd remember that once upon a time nobody cared about that shit. Part of the change is probably just people growing up and needing money, so I can't say it's just 4chan going to shit, and there were always drawfags with names, but that doesn't mean that people were terribly worried about plagiarism. Copying images and reposting them is as much a part of 4chan (and the internet in general) as is posting original things.

>deserve
This is a fucking meaningless word, and serves only to fuel sanctimonious self-righteousness.

>If you just discuss things without creating content the opinion of you, me, him, her, and them about as valuable as dirt.
Value, while not meaningless, is subjective. An opinion is potentially useful, and discussion can be enjoyable in its own right. The opinion is as valuable as the insight it provides. But not, as an identity-fag would surmise and as you imply, as the identity behind it would support. To associate value to an identity, whether it's of a content creator or not, is a fallacious.

>>49471705
Well, that and it's full to the brim of normalfags without any form of culture, and the site itself is poorly laid out to work on things and get feedback.

>>49471724
I'm only taking this to its logical conclusion. If 4chan's culture for some ungodly reason made names acceptable, then what's to say it won't snowball? Soon /qa/ might start whining for something akin to reddit's "karma" sysem, and then Hiro or the mods will start to think it's a good idea and start making changes. Give them an inch, they want a mile.

I do concede that this argument has become a bit pointless becasue I don't see that happening in the near future unless Hiro decides to sell the site to Google or someshit.

>>49469629
Then, in the true spirit of Scion, it would be totally fucking awesome.

>>49471800
>Taking the slippery slope argument with no shame

This is a bold move.

>>49471827
If you want to play that game, then Fallacy Fallacy. IMO it isn't that much of a fallacy anyway, considering what we've seen on the progress that SJW culture, for example, has made. It had to start somewhere.

>>49471976
Now you're going to rely on the SJW boogeyman.

You're right, this argument has become pointless. Plus the thread is heading to page 10 anyway.

Shut the fuck up about board culture and namefagging you absolute mouthbreathers. You wanna bitch about a drop in quality? This Scion thread getting shitted up by an argument about the stupidest shit is a drop in quality.

Can we PLEASE talk about awesome modern interpretations of classical mythology in the context of this RPG?