/scg/ Scion General

>>49472585

Thanks for making the thread for me, anon.

For reference, the Pantheons included in Hero are: Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Norse, Irish, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Algonquian, Yoruban, and Aztec. Kickstarter stretch goals have added the Loa as an add-on to the Yoruba gods and the dead Gaulish Pantheon as well, with the Persian gods likely to come as a later one.

Scions are one of three Geneses right now (with a fourth to be added much later): Born (your mom or dad was a god), Chosen (you were extraordinary but mortal until you were noticed), and Created (a god literally made you out of stone/wood/spit/whatever).

I am excited about the Scion anthology because it gives me hope that they might want to pay me to write for it.

>>49472648

Each Pantheon has its own unique Purview of special powers and a unique motif that flavors their magical works.

>Æsir: Wyrd
>The destinies spun by the Nornir can be changed through drawing runes or magical weaving.

>Kami: Yaoyorozu-no-Kamigami
>The kami are all things, and can be bidden to work wonders.

>Devá: Yoga
>By chanting spells and undergoing austerities, one may create or become a miracle.

>Manitou: Dodaem
>An offering of tobacco, prayers, dance and song convinces the myriad, unseen manitous to work their magic in your favor.

>Netjer: Heku
>Speaking the sacred ritual words releases sekhem, lending power to the soul.

>Orisha: Posession*
>Those who understand plants can use them in magic and medicine.

>Shén: Tianming*
>Alchemy manipulates the energies both within and without the body through exercises and concoctions associated with the five elements.

>Teotl: Nextlahualli
>Offerings of flowers, food, effigies, and blood empower the gods to sustain the World with miracles.
>Theoi: Metamorphosis*
>The most high may grant their favor to those who beseech them.

>Tuatha de Danann: Geasa*
>Magic flows from verse and satire.

>>49472585

The character concept I was sitting on is impossible now with Incarnates pushed back to God. I've got a backup that I'm learning to love as well.

>Anpu (Anubis) is guardian of the deceased and helps each soul enter the Underworld of Duat, but struggles to stop all of the wayward ghosts that escape him and those who would desecrate and reawaken the dead. He carves an ushabti, a small stone idol traditionally buried with royalty to aid them as slave labor in the afterlife, and gives it the power to live and act; this servant he sends out into the living modern world to do his will. But the ushabti is not a slave wholly, and realizes they can think for themself. While they want to aid their creator and protect the world from undead and necromancers, they're distracted by all the other things outside the scope of their mission.
>Sometimes, they dream of abandoning it entirely.

>The Wicked + the Divine were enormous inspirations for the Second Edition of Scion

ABORT ABORT

WITHDRAWING PLEDGE NOW

>>49472752

Why? The premise is fun and the art is great even if the story has shit itself by the third volume.

>>49472752
I don't know it, what is it about? Tumblr-tier fanfiction?

>>49472767

Basically the gods are real, but only manifest every 90 years and do so by taking over the lives of individual mortals for two year spans, at the end of which they die. Only twelve of them show up at any given time, and by the modern day it's a known thing that gets treated like rock stars.

Anon is probably mad because there's black and trans characters, but the joke's on him because the WicDiv author is doing Scion's intro fiction.

>>49472767

Gods-as-celebrities and vice versa is the core metaphor of TW+TD.

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>mfw pic related came out stateside on Tuesday and is basically one giant Scion plot

My intended character for Scion 2e is a young Mestizo man named Ahanu Descalzo.

He's the son of an Algonquin God, Jiibayaabooz—Ghost of Rabbit, trickster diety and patron of vision quests, ceremonies, and eventually Underworld.

Ahanu grew up in poverty and upon his Visitation (jargon for being visited by your Divine parent and discovery of your sacred lineage) was an athletic student enrolled in a business program at a university on the east coast; a long ways from his home in Phoenix and his doting and loving mother. He felt inexplicably drawn top the area every since he can remember and this was the best opportunity he had.

During his Visitation, his childhood dog (who he thought ran away before he graduated high school) was wandering around the city. It was very shocking seeing a very large Xoloitzcuintli darting in between alleys. Naturally he followed his dog, which was chasing a Rabbit. The chase lead him through twists and turns in the concrete labyrinth and the maze quickly became non euclidean until his father was impressed with Ahanu's athleticism and guile in navigating and dealing with obstacles.

Jiibayaabooz awakened the potential of Ahanu's dog, handed him a rabbit's foot necklace, a handful of extremely warm plant seeds, and left him with a bow coupled by an empty quiver without any instruction.

Basically, Ahanu will eventually turn in to a War god emulating a wolf. He will focus on the Purviews of Animal, Fire, and War. That's all I got so far.

>>49472794
>>49472798
Okay, thanks. I would have thought about American Gods as a more known influence.

>>49472876

American Gods is a huge influence on Scion, it's just also a decade and a half old by now. That's not as sexy as a still-running comic series.

>>49472743
Talk more about your Anubis carving

>>49472913

There's not to them yet, as I put most of my effort into my Incarnate of Azar/Osiris.

I'm still not decided on if the ushabti is a guy or a gal (or if they'll stay neither, or if they need to learn that because gender wasn't part of the "kill vampires for a dog-headed embalming god" lecture), though I like the idea of them having a 'cover' life with a mortal family. I'm really fond of the idea that duty is their central theme, but they have to find something for themselves rather than just obeying a creator's will.

They definitely have a friend/rival who is a Chosen of The Dagda, resurrected from the dead and ally to those gone before their time. Anubis obviously hates The Dagda and any other returning from the dead figures, though Azar/Osiris might be an exception as his boss.

>>49473070
I'd go with neither because it isn't important for a vampire killing rock. Cover family would be good for narrative reasons and for characterization

Any Birthrights planned?

>>49473104

Birthrights haven't been spoiled for 2e yet and I didn't play 1e, so none figured out yet. I figure some cool eye tattoos let them see the undead, and maybe they have a shotgun or khopesh that really hurts ghosts. It might be cool to have a fancy pet or a servant/handler to offer advice and orders.

You have any character ideas yet?

>>49473163
Yeah, Mr.Mestizo up there with his doge

I am almost positive Birthrights are more or less function the exact same just with some mechanically differences.

Shotgun AND khopesh! Trick weapons for all

>>49473210

Fuck you for trying to make me picture what a khopesh bayonet would look like. My brain isn't handling that well.

Like I said elsewhere, your guy is super neat but I know precisely nothing about that Pantheon. I'm a Netjer guy first and foremost with your usual Western background knowledge of Greco-Roman stuff.

>>49472677
Original naming schemes. Impressive.
>Aesir
>Gods
>Gods
>Spirits/Friendly
>Gods
>Gods
>Gods
>Gods
>Tuatha de Danann

>>49473361
I agree. If they're gonna be so anal about it they might as well just drop the pretense, the names are embarrassing. Just have them being called "Norse Gods", "Egyptian Gods", "Chinese Gods", whatever.

>>49473545

What's the problem with using proper names? They still sound appropriately exotic.

I hope there won't be too much pronouns fuckery, it's annoying as fuck when I have to translate it for my players.

>>49473640
Wouldn't the only pronoun fuckery invovled be with example characters that they wouldn't need to be involved in?

Or you could just ignore it and use common he or she

>>49473553
It's a weird combination of laziness and banality that's grating on the brain. Who're they afraid of offending here? The Aztecs? They threw those pretenses out the window when they decided to make their game about motorcycle gods shooting their god shotguns at the dragons, and any fan who doesn't realize this and throws a fit because it's less historically/linguistically accurate is a fucking moron.

The names serve only the purpose of sounding cool, so the change is weak and unneeded.

>>49473686
I mean, it's not even "historically/linguistically accurate" to call them by the new names, since none of those are actually the NAME of the grouping of gods, it's just a foreign word for "gods". The Japanese would've referred to Tezcatlipoca, Osiris or Thor as "Kami" as much as they would Amaterasu, because it's literally just a translated noun.

>>49473652
That's what I usually do, but it's annoying to have them use xe in a book, then xir, then singular they, etc.
I don't really care about the whole pronouns sensibilities, I'd just wish for some constancy in their use.

>>49473686

The only one I personally know is the Ogdoad shifting to the Netjer, and that's a welcome change because Ogdoad refers to specific gods within the Egyptian pantheon and is also a fucking Greek name.

>>49473718

They've literally never done that. One character used zhe/zer in a Hunter book and those were used for that character, and then one chapter in Promethean exclusively uses hir for all example pronouns. OPP usually just defaults to she or they.

>>49473686
>>49473705
To me, it's more the reasoning behind the changes that's annoying. I've been on the Scion forums on WW and OPP for long enough to see how the fans think, and it just feels like OPP went about designing elements of their new edition by lazily going over them and seeing what "wishes" would be the easiest to fulfill without giving it the slightest bit of thought. It's 7th Sea and the "Los Vagabundos" autists all over again.

Listening to the fans is never to be done lightly, especially when designing games. Fans are not game designers. They think they know what they want, but they seriously fucking don't. Enter the forums of any video game making company and stare in disbelief in the hordes of autists who really think it's a good idea if "to be more realistic" or "to be cooler" or something entire game mechanics were broken down or the game was made impossibly cumbersome with additional details which don't fit its atmosphere of the game in the first place.

In the case of names, it does almost no harm to anyone, but it sets a worrying precedent because it shows the kind of thought processes that went into designing this.

>>49473727
>Ogdoad
They were called Pesedjet in the previous edition.

And so fucking what, that's my point. "Dodekatheon" technically shouldn't include Hades and "Amatsukami" is a classification fitting MAYBE 5 Japanese gods. But at least they've got more soul than just calling them "the gods" through google translate. Who are they kidding here?

>>49473763

Ah, my bad. I always said Ogdoad when I mean to say Ennead.

I still don't know /why/ you're mad about less-inaccurate names being used. A vague "don't listen to the fans!" complaint doesn't really mean anything.

>>49473705
See, that's an argument I actually can get behind. If you're gonna call them all "gods in another language" under the logic that "this is how their native people would've called them", you're shooting yourself in the logical leg since the ancient Greeks would've called the Aesir "Theoi" all the same, and the ancient Chinese would've called the Devas "Shen"...

If you're going to call of them "Gods", just call them gods and differentiate them purely by culture rather than bothering the languages. You don't have the Shen call "Legend" Chouanshou and the Teotle call it Zazanilli, either. Arbitrariness is never elegant.

>>49473791
Because if they're going to thoughtlessly listen to the fans on something like that, it increases the chance that they'll do it with some other aspect of the game, and this is how you get new editions of D&D.

>>49473847

You're right, anon. Things should be inaccurate. They're much better when they're stupidly wrong.

>>49473863
Exactly. It's campy, it's trashy, and it expresses the kind of mindset you're going for when you're making a game about motorcycle centaurs and mjolnir pistols. It shows that you put style and memorability over an autistic adherence to the cultures whose beliefs you're butchering anyway and a faith to your own creative vision.

>>49473880
Now, now, anon. Shitting over ancient cultures' beliefs is never okay, unless it's so you can have black Muslim homosexual heores of cultures who'd have never allowed this. Then it's progress.

I can't wait for someone complaining in every thread about the pantheon names. It's going to be real enjoyable.

Anyways, I'll probably still want to make my Scion of Sobek, the gun-runner in the crocodile skin boots, trying to get weapons into the hands of those groups who seem like they'll do the most good with them.

Also an idea for a Scion of Bast who considers herself a cultural exchange student for the various pantheons, always trying to insinuate herself into groups of scions just to learn more about them.

>>49473897

Can you shitpost anywhere else? The least you could do is read this first.

>>49473908

Sobek was confirmed to be in, thankfully. Sekhmet got smooshed into Bast, which I understand but will still complain about.

>>49472648
>YORUBA

An interesting choice. Yoruba is pretty chill for an African religion, which is usually centered around how much god hates you and wants you to die. Yoruba has a very mellow Buddhist feel to it though

>>49473948

The other main reason it was picked was so we could see the traditional half of things when the other half is the zany voodoo Loa, I suspect.

>>49473915
He's right, though. You're gonna act like it's only natural that they'll aspire to the highest level of accurate representation in their "let's turn ancient gods into action movie heroes" game, you might as well get behind the idea that all scions of the Aesir be blonde, blue eyed men. It's every bit as accurate (actually more accurate, see >>49473834).

>>49473964
And because fans kept complaining that the Loa pantheon is too modern and didn't have enough mythological weight behind it.

>>49473926
>Sekhmet got smooshed into Bast, which I understand but will still complain about.

Eh, that doesn't bother me so much. One, many of the Egyptian gods are folded into each other throughout history anyways. Two, making up Gods to be Scions of was easy in 1e and it looks even easier in 2e. You can separate out Sekhmet if you want or fill in any gaps that you might think are missing for any pantheon.

>>49473948
I like it! One, it's a religion/mythology that might be unfamiliar to a lot of folks and two, it allows you to shoehorn in the "Loa" later as young, strange offshoots of that family tree.

I'm aiming for a charming Violinist Scion of Apollo myself. Travels from place to place, busking to get buy. Wants to see the world.

Is there anyone on these threads who isn't either a shill or a hater? Am I allowed to be interested if I will not suck OPP's cock and rush to defend their every retarded gesture? How's it that in every other company's threads fans have differing opinions, but the only way to be on OPP threads is to either slavishly agree that their every action is on The Glorious Path of Ultimate Truth or absolute tumblerite bullshittery?

>>49473979
>And because fans kept complaining that the Loa pantheon is too modern and didn't have enough mythological weight behind it.

Frankly, I think you need it. You need the young upstarts - that's what American Gods was all about - and the Voodoo pantheon was just fun for that.

Yeah, they're campy and cliche, but who doesn't want to summon Maitre Carrefour at the crossroads with a swig of rum and gunpowder, only to learn he's your Daddy and now you got this guitar you can play so damn good, and all your enemies seem to just have the worst luck when you're around...

>>49473987
And I wanted to make DJ Bromius, setting up last second parties, all thumping bass and EDM. God only knows what's being passed around in those little baggies, but the shit will get you so high. All you wanna do is let go and dance...

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>>49474001
But anon, everybody in the world is either a shill or a hater, it just depends on which side you happen to fall.

>>49474089
Sounds like the words of a skub-lover.

>>49474153
There is literally nothing wrong with skub.

>>49472649
Freenlance writers in the RPG industry get really, really shitty rates. Like, waiting in a restaurant would be a more efficient use of your time. I've only ever worked with super obscure companies, so maybe they couldn't afford it, but as far as I've been able to gather they're pretty standard.

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>There are actual human beans
>In this thread
>That like Skub
>Unironically

Holy fucking SHIT, kill yourself.

>>49472585
I've got a bunch of character concepts desu, mostly stuff that I wanted to try out in 1e but never had a chance to because every game I was in died out after two sessions.

They're mostly pretty independent of mechanics though, which is nice, and means I can probably give them all a shot in 2e.

Any news on how the 2e purview/epic attribute system will work compared to 1e?

>>49472677
>Æsir
>Nornir

OPP fucking stop it.

>>49473553
Well for one, Æsir/Aesir isn't even remotely close to how norwegians, swedes, and danes pronounce it.

Looking through the preview pdf for the first time, and I really like the idea of Momentum. I've only ever seen an idea like that used in one other game before, but it works so well for high-powered games where the characters are supposed to be specially gifted or otherwise unusually cool motherfuckers.

The GM being able to bribe players with Momentum to voluntarily accept worse consequences is pretty great too. That mechanic alone is giving me some neat ideas for playing a Clouseau-type character who always succeeds through dumb luck rather than competence.

>>49474865
Now if only they named it something less retarded.

Seriously. Functionally, it's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what momentum should logically represent. Literally any other name they could've picked, including any amount of gibberish, would've been a more accurate representation of the concept than its complete opposite.

Momentum is what makes you keep going in the same direction. Its what you'd call a mechanic that makes you succeed harder once you've started to succeed. What they've got there is literal reverse momentum.

>>49474878
Huh.

Pantheon names got changed from what sounds good to what would be more accurate, making them samey and boring.

Game mechanics get named at random based on a cool sounding physics word at the cost of accuracy, making them stupid.

It's like OPP is deliberately doing their best to suck at naming...

>>49474884
Ironic that, considering how many of their gamelines incorperate the concept of True Names.

>>49474847
It's okay to butcher Norse Mythology though, because it's a white people's mythology.

>>49474927
Maybe the sucky names are meant to protect them from name wizards. Nobody with a high school level understanding of physics would think to refer to what they've named Momentum as momentum.

>>49474878
Ah, but anon, the name is accurate, it just applies to the narrative rather than the characters. Momentum serves to keep the plot moving forward on the whole, even if the route taken has to deviate a little to accommodate it.

>>49475154
No, it doesn't. Momentum would pull the plot in the same direction it's been going. If a character began failing, "momentum" would make it fail even more. Horrible game mechanic, I agree, but that's what you get when you choose names for your mechanics based on how cool sounding the word is.

Or you can just go full retard and name things the opposite of what they are. Next: defense rolls are to be used to harm the enemy, attack rolls be used to prevent damage, and Non-Player Characters be what the players are portraying.

>>49474939
To be fair, everyone and their mother has been alternatingly butchering and fucking the husk-like corpses that are Greek and Norse mythology for decades now.

>>49475166
>Moving the plot forward isn't moving it in the same direction it's been going

I mean, I guess if you're used to playing with shit parties who meander all over the place, then your confusion is understandable.

>>49475362
Not forward, you illiterate buttfuck. In the same direction it was going. As per the meaning of the word momentum. Of course it's stupid, that's what I've been saying since the first post. It's a stupid, poorly fitting name.

Does the Norse gods include non-Aesir as well?

>>49473926
What? Shouldn't Sekhmet be smooshed into Hathor instead?

From what I remember, she turned into Sekhmet when drunk, or something...

>>49474847
No, but it is close to how it was pronounced when Danes settled in England, and the locals learned the names of the gods and so on.

It's just another level of language drift. English is more correct in a few levels, such as the name of Thor. After the Scandinavian languages discarded the Th-sound, his name drifted over to Tor.

>>49475666
Technically speaking, Njord, Freya, and Frey, are not native Aesir, but adopted from a rival pantheon.

>>49475708
Technically speaking, most of the Aesir are just Jotun who put on airs. Odin, and by extension his entire brood, Heimdall, and Loki were all born to Jotun mothers(in Heimdall's case nine of them).

>>49475708
>>49475774
Yeah, it's split over Aesir, Vanir, and Jotnar.

It is more akin to families than species. And back in the old days, you could be adopted into families.
Loki, Skadi, and probably a whole bunch other I can't recall at the moment, were born Jotunn, but got adopted into the Aesir.
Whereas the Aesir and the Vanir were fused as part of a peace agreement. (And I think sealed with a marriage. Is Frigga one of the Vanir?)

>>49472649
Make sure you get a real contract out of onyx path, they have a tendency to forget to do those

>>49475939
No marriage, just an exchange of hostages. Njord and his children were the Vanir's, Mimir and, I think it was Hoder, were the Aesir's.

>>49476071
I'm pretty certain Mimir was a Jotun...

>>49476106
Quite possible, since Mimir's origins are never detailed in any of the storkes. Never the less, the reason Mimir ended up a disembodied head is how the whole Aesir/Vanir hostage exchange worked out(which is to say, shit for him, okay for everyone else).

>>49475666
>>49475708
>>49475774
>>49475939
Damn, you guys are right!

WELL, NO CHOICE NOW. The name of the Norse pantheon must be changed to "Gudomar".

For authenticity!

>>49476988
Nah. Too modern. The word "Gud" isn't a native word up here. It'd probably be something based on Tyr.

>>49476988
Nah mang, these are white people gods. No need to be so serious with them. Just make sure their Scions are a reasonable combination of blacks, Muslims, genderqueers and cripples. And none of those one-eyed or one-armed dudes that might be thematically fitting, either. No whitewashing! If a guy in a wheelchair who is physically incapable of performing as a mythical hero can't be a mythical hero, that's just being a shitlord!

>>49477002
I'm pretty sure he's referring to how all of the pantheon names were changed to the word "gods" in whatever the language is. No need to be ACTUALLY true to the sources - just satisfy the foreign fans who throw hissy fits because you got the language wrong!

>>49477012
Actually, there is a semi-mythical viking hero who couldn't walk...

>>49473987
Filthy buskers get out

>>49474626
Epic Attributes are purviews in and of themselves, providing access to an innate power and boons that fit within its miraculous paradigm. This does mean you can be strength 2 and get epic strength if you wanted but you're not going to get the mileage out of it that someone more swole could. Though a low strength person getting epic strength and using it as a drive to get jacked would be perfectly logical in character.

>>49472585
>Greco-Roman pantheon preview
Why this one? Isn't it pretty much the least interesting? Do people actually like that mythology more than other options?

>>49477321
I like the greeks gods. Why the hate?

>>49477321
Its the one people are generally the most familiar with, so putting it out first means the focus is more on how things have changed since 1st edition than the pantheon itself.

>>49472648
>Created
Can anyone tell me how this isn't the best option (thematically speaking) by a fucking mile? The only way it could be better would be it'd you were created but two gods from different pantheons conspiring together in secret.

>>49472677
>Aesir are völva and runes, no poetry and flyting
Hell of a shame, really. I guess they figured their audience just couldn't handle rap battles.

>Greeks don't get arete
It's an obviously good change from a design perspective, but I feel like the thematics suffer.

>>49473070
Aren't ushabti normally male?

>>49477360
The other options mean you have a working knowledge of the mortal world already.

Plus personally I find being Born the most interesting option, as you dont have to be really good at something like Chosen or created for a specific purpose like created, you're just a regular joe until you find out about your heritage.

>>49477360
Because some people might want to be herakles or a reincarnating god rather than wonder woman? Different strokes for different folks

>>49473971
So far the example non-Nordic scion of the Norse is a son of Loki, who besides fucking an Arab has also fucked a horse, and is the result of one of the Aesir fucking one of the Jotnar. They're ethnic and tribal gods, but the legends do support this behavior just damn fine.

>>49477539
At least he's not a slick and tricky white guy with flamin' red hair called "Sly Guiler." Talk about creatively bankrupt and on the nose.

>>49477183
If he's able to accomplish things despite being cripple, than clearly he's not a true cripple, meaning he's whitewashed.

Of course, if he can't, he's depicted as handicapped where clearly he should not, because why would missing two of your four limbs ever make someone less capable at anything at all than someone who isn't other than because of shitlords?

You can't win with SJWs.

>>49477608
They're emulating American Gods. You know, the book which has a dude named "Low-Key Lysmith" with scars on his lips who is shifty and evil, and a one eyed mysterious leader guy called "Mr. Wednesday".

>>49477608
I hated that shit in 1e, how all scions were mini versions of their parents. 2e callings are a nice way to differentiate your burgeoning divine identity from theirs while still having a bit inherited.

So, this is just a Pathfinder class, right?

>>49473964
>>49474020
The Yoruba faith is actually more recent than Lucumí. I don't think it's newer than Voudun but the difference isn't huge. That said, I think it's still easy better to use the more typical pantheon as the base one, with Voudun as the offshoot. Though I think the real problem with the loa was really power level. You can kind of put the Norse and Greeks on the same level, and once you do that, they're not too far apart from the Irish and Hindus, respectively. But if you look too hard, it quickly becomes apparent that the loa are more on the level of the spirits that the Eastern scions can command than the ones that spawn them.

>>49477638
I actually didn't get who Low-Key Lyesmith was until it was spelled out to me in the plot. I felt truly tricked.

>>49477701
Well, you can't know it at first without "cheating" (like, having previous knowledge of the book) because you don't yet understand that you're dealing with the Norse gods and all. Once you do? Low-Key Lyesmith? Really?

Don't get me wrong, American Gods is one of my three favorite books of all times and there is not a single letter of it I did not absolutely and completely adore. I think it's charming, stylish, and amazing, but it's not hard to figure out.

>>49477658
Nobody laughed at this in the last thread. Get on board and start complaining about diversity.

>>49477653
I absolutely agree. Having some trait of your divine parentage is fine, but when you're just a clone, it's boring. A Scion of Zeus that's a serial adulterer might be interesting, especially if he's truly regretful of his habits but doesn't know how to break them. But if he's also, I dunno, an electrical engineer, LIGHTNING BOLTS, GUYS. And he also loves to go to costume parties SHAPESHIFTING, IT'S SHAPESHIFTING.

It just gets to be too much. I figure that's another reason they added in other ways of being a scion rather than being born one.

>>49475666
The Vanir are kind of Aesir though, even though they're adopted.

>>49477737
But I mean, I already knew who Mr. Wednesday was and I have at least a passing familiarity with Norse myth...

I dunno. Maybe it was so on the nose that it worked. I'll give that to Loki. But I don't need it in every example Scion. Oh, the Scion of Horus is Horace and his rival is the Scion of Set, his uncle named Seth?

>>49477737
I called it the moment I saw his name because "Low-Key" is the most obvious way to say "totally not Loki, right guys?"

Mr. Wednesday was more of a surprise to me than Low-Key.

>>49477755
That's because, as >>49477638 mentioned, they were emulating American Gods without truly understanding what they were doing. In American Gods, the characters are the ACTUAL gods, so it makes a lot of sense that each one of them would be a 1:1 modernized urban retelling of a specific mythological figure, complete with a cheesy "I'm totally not that god, but actually yeah I am" name (Mr. Ibis and Mr. Jackal, anyone?). The pregens from Scion 1st ed did spectacularly in what the development team didn't realize they were designing them TO do, which is to be characters that feel like they came out of the novel. The problem is that in the novel, "Horace" would've actually BEEN Horus and his rivalry with "Seth" would've been the exact same one FROM Egyptian mythology. When you try and have all of that but than also emphasize that they aren't the same person - yeah, you end up with clone Scions.

>>49477810
I dug the cheesiness and embraced it fully. My players had just the right kind of smile when I had them meet with slightly greenish skinned Mr. Osvald "Ozzy" Ross.

>>49477012
Yeah! Disabled heroes and gays and trannies will totally fit in with the pantheon whose head had one eye, walked with a cane, and took it up the ass, becoming feminized in the process, in order to learn women's magic! And it will also make sense to add minorities to a clan of divinities who on multiple accepted foreign members including from their rivals!

Or were you being sarcastic?

Seriously, the reason the Aesir get this kind of shit isn't their whiteness.

>>49477755
>>49477810
I think the pregens got a decent amount of distinctiveness as the series went on. By Scion: God Adonis Rhodes is very much his own story, and there's a lot more to however the Asian chick renamed herself than just Susano-O with tits. And it makes sense. By when you're just a Hero, you are relatively powerless, you are dependent on your divine parent a lot more, they're likely your first and for now among only contacts with the mythical world, I think it's natural you'll take after them in a lot of ways. It's only once you get around to building your own legend that you become a distinct mythical figure from your parent.

>>49477863
Yet somehow, for all that, I have a strange feeling that if someone went and decided to make the hero of an Aztec mythology themed tale white because Quetzelcoatl is mentioned to be, the tumblerinas will scream to all high heavens.

Consider the Thor films vs. Gods of Egypt.

Fans of Norse mythology angry that Thor has black Aesir? NARROW MINDED CIS SCUM WHITE TRASH SHITHEADS NEED TO GET ON WITH THE TIMES, AND BESIDES THEY'RE CLEARLY NOT THE REAL NORSE GODS SO IT ONLY MAKES SENSE THEY'LL BE BLACK DAMMIT

Gods of Egypt includes white Egyptian gods? WHITEWASHING, WHITEWASHING EVERYWHERE, OH BY HUMANITY, WHEN WILL IT STOP AND PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT ADHERENCE TO THE MYTHOLOGICAL SOURCE MATERIAL IS THE HIGHEST OF ALL VALUES, EVEN WHEN IT'S JUST AS CLEAR THAT THIS IS A VERY DISTANT REIMAGINING OF EGYPTIAN MYTHOLOGY?

>>49477483
You can learn the mortal world, and that's not really a thematic thing so much as a practical concern, unless you choose otherwise. Being born means you're offspring, you're fundamentally less than your parent, since your whole divinity stems from heritance. Chosen is cool but you're still just an uplifted mortal in addition to being pigeon-holed. If you're created, who can say what your nature is? You're something new, something that can exceed your creators if you redefine and recreate yourself, rather than being a jumped-up demigod, you can be a true divinity made in a multi-step process where step two is throwing off, subverting, or perhaps embodying the geiss that was built into you.

>>49477924
>Yet somehow, for all that, I have a strange feeling that if someone went and decided to make the hero of an Aztec mythology themed tale white because Quetzelcoatl is mentioned to be, the tumblerinas will scream to all high heavens.
You have to get on with the times, anon. Turning someone from a white pantheon nonwhite is progress. Turning a nonwhite white is cultural appropriation.

>>49477924
Hey, in the art in 1e, he was very much a bearded white man.

>>49477924
I mean, you're not wrong, but consider that those are the for whom foreigners were warned upon and sacrificed en mass. Probably the least tolerant deities in the public consciousness, if you don't count monotheistic religions.

>>49472752
>WITHDRAWING PLEDGE NOW
I'm sure they'll struggle without you

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>>49477810
I actuall tried to do that with my Scion of Baldur in the 1e.
He was heavy on the Viking poetry stuff and was literally a rock demigod who's axe could became a LITERAL axe.

>>49472585
And now, I miss my TV reporter Aztec-sorcerer-asshole

>>49474237

Oh I'm very well aware, I do freelancing for RPGs on occasion and I keep up with the tabletop standard rates. They're all pretty depressing unless you can break into Evil Hat or lucked out and wrote for GURPS books in their heyday. Still, it'd be nice to write some Scion fiction, especially with some of the neat setting details in 2e.

>>49475435

It's Narrative Momentum. It's saying what the mechanic actually does, which is to keep the story going and avoid potential pitfalls of a hard binary pass/fail system, which can shift the narrative into a choppy start/stop pace. That's ideal for some games, but maybe not this one.

That said, I wonder if using a stronger toned synonym for Consolation would have been a more effective word choice, since it is a subset of that system.

>>49476025

I've been lucky so far, every project I'be worked on had a contract I could read and parse. I've noticed that the tabletop industry really, really wants to pay its writers via PayPal as of late, which is a bummer for me because I prefer checks.

>>49478357
>That said, I wonder if using a stronger toned synonym for Consolation would have been a more effective word choice, since it is a subset of that system.
It would certainly be vastly preferable to Momentum. Solace?

>>49478357
>I've been lucky so far, every project I'be worked on had a contract I could read and parse. I've noticed that the tabletop industry really, really wants to pay its writers via PayPal as of late, which is a bummer for me because I prefer checks.
All the companies I've worked with have always paid me via Paypal, and I've been in the industry since 2013. It's fast and convenient.

If they want an ice cube's chance in hell to beat John Wick's 7th Sea kickstarter they better start revealing some tantalizing stretch goals, and fast. Say what you may about Wick, his management of the kickstarter was freaking exemplary (in fact, it was so "perfect" that I suspect I know what books on it he read). If nothing else, I wish more people in the RPG industry learned that from him.

>all the fun Pantheons are in Demigod

reeeee

>>49478736
I don't think they expect or plan to beat that. They have made four times their initial asking amount already and probably wouldn't say not to 1.3 mil, but I don't think anyone involved really expects to top that.

>>49478736
Strange as it may be, I actually think they're trying to fund the product they and their fans want, rather than just jew the fuck out of everyone. To that end, the stretch goals seem reasonable.

>>49478935
I didn't say they would, I said they better and that I hope more developers would. The influx of money would immensely increase product quality all over the RPG industry and no longer having to operate on an eternal shoestring budget doing everything possible to minimize expanses will get rid it of a lot of bad habits.

>>49478871
>he doesn't like the Aesir
>he doesn't like the orixas
Which are the ones you're looking forward to then?

>>49478976
Have you seen the 7th Sea kickstarter? Wick did brilliantly exactly by offering the fans JUST what they wanted. I'm not being ironic or cynical or anything here, I'm genuinely complimenting the guy. He's got a lot of horrible character flaws, but he showed that he has a very real skill for identifying PRECISELY what it is people want (and more importantly, what it is they don't yet know they want, which is something a lot of developers claim to but don't), and delivering it in just the right way in just the right time. I don't have enough familiarity with the Scion fanbase to be able to say, but I'm assuming, for example, that there would've been a lot more excitement if they'd revealed extra pantheons (which everyone seems to want) before a GMs screen which nobody's said a word about.

>>49478994

Not that guy, but not having the Mesopotamian gods in your mythology game's corebook is silly.

For reference, Demigod has Mesopotamian, Polynesian, Mayan, Slavic, and Navajo pantheon's planned. Neall's also talked about bringing in the Inuit, Welsh, Lakota, Australian Aboriginal, Guarani, and Canaanite pantheons later on.

>>49479006

To be fair, they have to save some good stuff for when they crowdfund Demogod and God.

>>49479085
Do they? One of the smart things Wick did was to ride the success from the Kickstarter (once he realized where the wind was blowing) to start funding with it all the books for the coming three years. It started a profitable cycle, because with every stretch goal he revealed a new book, which got people more excited, which brought in more money with which he revealed more future books. He only finished at the 13th book or so because by that point he basically said "yeah, I can't realistically guarantee anything beyond that because that's literally like three years from now."

He DID, however, explicitly mention, in the middle of the kickstarter (a VERY ballsy move) that he was saving one of the most waited for features, a Far East equivalent, for a later Kickstarter to be its own independent game line. If he'd done this under almost any other conditions than he did, this would've caused a lot of anger (it's the equivalent of saying, before a game is even launched, that you've broken it down to parts and are intending to release them as DLC) but everything was just so perfectly executed the fans didn't care.

I definitely think that a company like Onyx Path could afford to promise more substantial stretch goals than that without "compromising" material for the next books they're already planning on Kickstarting independently. (in fact, if it was up to me I'd have tried using that one kickstarter to fund the entire Scion gameline, but that would've required more planning that they'd evidently did).

There also the matter of delivery. Another good thing Wick did (I can't believe I'm giving him so many compliments in one thread): he had the 7th Sea core book very nearly finished BEFORE starting the kickstarter.

This allowed him to release a full PDF about a month after it has finished, followed by hardcovers just a couple months after. Compare this to Onyx Path and their history of delaying books by years AFTER people have paid for them, and...

Well...

Does the quickstart typically come out before the full book? If so, how long before?

>>49478986
>The influx of money would immensely increase product quality all over the RPG industry
But Wick doesn't know what to do with a game.

>>49479085
Frankly they should put all the Pantheons in Hero.
Actually, double frankly, they should crowdfund a "Scion: Core" book that has both Origins and Hero.

>>49479186
>(it's the equivalent of saying, before a game is even launched, that you've broken it down to parts and are intending to release them as DLC)
Not really.

>This allowed him to release a full PDF about a month after it has finished, followed by hardcovers just a couple months after. Compare this to Onyx Path and their history of delaying books by years AFTER people have paid for them, and...
Most of the Onyx Path kickstarters have had the text released as part of the Kickstarter. The book is generally already ready.

Frankly, I'm confused as to how Wick's kickstarter went over so well when so many people hate John Wick. Maybe they thought it was written by the Keanu Reeves character?

>>49479219
They generally do, but no idea how long. Did Beast even get a Quickstart? That would have been the last Kickstarter thing. I think Pugmire might have.

>>49479290

Origins is split from Hero because it has all the rules, which lets Hero dedicate more wordcount to actual Scion stuff instead of having to explain how shit like intiative works. Plus Origins lets you play as mortals!

>>49479486

"mortals" being "also literally a fucking werewolf" so more like mortals+

"Yeah even our lowest book is still Hunter tier 3 level in power" sounds about right for Scion.

>>49478704

Yeah, I really should just up and do it that way, but I know I'll miss the feeling of getting a check in the mail and depositing it. Eh, I'll live.

>>49479509

That's what happens when your game is pulp superheroes instead of horror.

please just spoil one of the interesting Pantheons already

nobody cares about Greek shit, we all learned it in elementary school

>>49479486
I'm aware of why they're doing it the way they are, but I don't like the whole "buy a second book for the mechanics" thing, and while I like Chronicles of Darkness' corebook, I'm glad they stopped doing that.

An omnibus that has both of them in a single volume would still be a very good stretch goal.

The actual reason it's two books is because Print on Demand doesn't handle large books very well. Even with Scion in stores, PoD will probably the only consistent way to get it in print.

>>49479290
>But Wick doesn't know what to do with a game.
But there are people in the RPG industry who do, and they could make more money than him if they learned to do the one thing he DOES legitimately know how to do, which is to run a successful KS campaign.

>>49479290
>Frankly, I'm confused as to how Wick's kickstarter went over so well when so many people hate John Wick. Maybe they thought it was written by the Keanu Reeves character?
It's a testament to just how well he ran the campaign. He did every single thing right, from planting the seeds of interest months before with his viral campaign (aimed exactly at the people he knew would be interested), through releasing exactly the information players wished, the very early, very polish quickstarts, the high quality art released throughout, and carefully picking the stretch goals. It's not magic and it's not an accident, it's business savvy.

>>49480131
What did he do, exactly? Because, again, all I ever see is how much he's hated. He's not even liked by the people he's worked with, and most of his advice is garbage. I'm not even sure how he's as popular as he is to begin with. It's not like 7th Sea was even that famous, either.

I can understand a well run campaign, but I don't see how it could be more successful than things people actually know and care about.

>>49479290

>Frankly, I'm confused as to how Wick's kickstarter went over so well when so many people hate John Wick.

1. Loud internet people hate John Wick. For the most part, the reaction is "Wow, 7th Sea is back, I loved that game!" If things people said about RPG creators on the internet actually mattered, Ken Whitman wouldn't be still active and scamming people.

2. The Kickstarter did everything right. You could help fund a full game with years of content. You could easily get all of the popular last edition. The book itself looked fresh and new.

>>49479219

Quickstarts tend to come after the book, given the last few quickstart releases.

>>49472585
YES

>Sedjert (ancient Egyptian: "vigil")

>Divine Parent: Anpu (Anubis)
>Callings: Liminal (Favored), Warrior, Judge

>Origin Path: Made of Stone and Anpu's Will (began life as a stone idol made by Anpu; Asset Skills: Athletics, Occult)
>Role Path: "The dead must stay dead." (Created as a weapon against undead and necromancers; Asset Skills: Close Combat, Firearms)
>Relationship Path: "Duty does not define me." (No longer wishes to be a tool for his creator; Asset Skills: Empathy, Culture)

>>49480219
I know 4chan makes it hard to believe, but it is possible for a person to be more than either a paragon of perfect goodness or the shittiest shit to have ever shitted all things to be shat. John Wick is not a good person, and he's a mediocre game designer with enough ego to fill the ocean (some of his early games were genuinely good, but he's been acting like he's the god of all things RPG since Houses of the Blooded won a few awards).

He's not flawed, he's awful.

However, he is ALSO a good businessman. Sometimes, you got to accept the fact that a person whom you don't like has their good points.

Like I said: he ran the kickstarter very skillfully. I gave a few of the examples in the previous example:
>planting the seeds of interest months before with his viral campaign (aimed exactly at the people he knew would be interested),
>releasing exactly the information players wished,
>very early, very polish quickstarts
>high quality art released throughout
>carefully picking the stretch goals

Obviously, all of this sounds like a bunch of no-brainers but it's the execution that matters, and Wick's execution was impeccable. It's very, very clear, in my opinion, that he learned from a few of the books that there out there on the subject how real businessmen run their kickstarters, which is something I hope other game designers do. There's an overwhelming sense throughout the industry that with the exception of WoTC, people working on RPGs aren't "real" professionals. They shouldn't be held up to the same standards and shouldn't try as hard. Hell, I wrote a few supplements myself. I got paid through PayPal, I had business conversations through public IRCs because they couldn't be assed to use anything else. I saw people who represent their own budding companies picking fights with haters on forums and making idiots of themselves in front of their potential customer base.

It's all indicative of the same mentality, which Wick realized can be overcome.

>>49480281
John Wick is the kind of person who more or less exists in internet reaction space, and Kickstarter does as well. It's not just what people say about RPG creators, it's what the people he's worked with have said about him, and what his own book says about him. 7th Sea was never a super popular game in the first place.

Also, telling me "the Kickstarter did everything right" doesn't tell me WHAT the Kickstarter did right.

>>49480219

>I'm not even sure how he's as popular as he is to begin with. It's not like 7th Sea was even that famous, either.

7th Sea was a very beloved game, wacky metaplot twists and all. He also helped create Legend of the 5 Rings, and helped set up the current indie RPG culture ee have today. He also helped work on Neopets.

He might have some bizarre GM tendencies, but he's got enough creative and business acumen to still be a name worth talking about.

You really ought to learn more and research about the hobby you like so much, Aspel. You can't just fall back on hearsay and /tg/ posts.

>>49480332
Oh, and one thing I can't believe slipped my mind until now:

Advertising in advance that one of the lower pledge rewards would be ALL OF THE 1ST EDITION PRODUCTS BUNDLED, which he even cleverly mentioned (more subtly than that, so it wouldn't look so Jewy) that you could be saving hundreds of dollars this way because how much they cost independently.

That alone made him hundreds of thousands of dollars. In business terms it's brilliant on so many levels I don't even know when to start. There's the "super good limited edition" element to it, giving people something that's genuinely really good for a genuinely good price throughout the kickstarter. There's the fact that it meant that even people who WEREN'T INTERESTED in the 2nd edition gave him their money because that offer alone was just so good. There was playing off the nostalgia in just the right ways.

He also made that pledge especially cheap, which encouraged a massive amount of people to get it.

BTW, you may notice that quite a few RPG related kickstarters that came out since then (including this very one, in fact) tried offering the exact same thing, which is just more evidence of what a genius move everyone realizes it was. But it's not enough by itself: you have to have the whole well executed package.

>>49480353
>7th Sea was a very beloved game

See, that's another funny thing. I remember back when the Kickstarter was running, someone mentioned it on /codg/ and they all got SUPER butthurt at how much money Wick was making. Some were trying to come up with "justifications" for why this was possible without having to admit that he just did things better than OPP ever did, and I remember one of them going "well, duh, he re-released a beloved old game with a lot of fans, they'd have thrown their money at him anyway".

Let it sink in for a moment.

The guy was trying to protect the company who failed to make nearly as much money re-releasing MOTHERFUCKING VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE, THE SECOND MOST POPULAR RPG IN HISTORY, by appealing to mass nostalgia.

I remember this very well because I actually, literally laughed out loud reading it. The butthurt was so bad you could feel the heat radiating through the screen reading the guy's words.

>>49480458
Which is to say, in case it's not clear, that I sincerely believe that with the intellectual property they're sitting on doing comparative jack shit with (YAY! CONDITION CARDS! EVERYONE LOVES BUYING CONDITION CARDS!) OPP could make so much more money and deliver products so much better it's just tragic, but they're so secure in their knowledge that devoted fans from the 90's will assure them an eternally moderate income that they never try to reach for anything more.

>>49480338

>John Wick is the kind of person who more or less exists in internet reaction space, and Kickstarter does as well.

None of this matters when the Kickstarter looks solid, and it's the revival of a beloved game. A game doesn't need to be popular to be beloved.

There were also people who said to themselves, "well, John Wick a shit but the team he's got looks solid and hey, if I pledge this much I get every 1e book in existance. I'll give this a shot."

You don't understand this because you don't want to understand this, Aspel. You can't be bothered to learn about what's going on in the scene beyond bite sized info, but you want to talk like you're an expert.

>>49480458
>>49480482

Yeah, like, I don't think that it would have ever gone unfunded, but it sure wouldn't have made the money it did if it wasn't a total powerhouse of a crowd funding campaign.

A part of me thinks, though, that OPP can never really reach that height because the products they need to survive are all licensed. Which is why Scion went first, I think: it's a totally owned IP that still manages to have some brand recognition.

I'm hard pressed to wonder how they could improve the Kickstarter, though.

>>49480311
Relationship path doesn't give asset skills. Or rather the pantheon gives you asset skills instead. Those two aren't the netjer ones.

>>49480780

Ah, shit. That's what happens when you don't have all the rules, I suppose.

What are their Asset Skills? I know their values are Balance and Justice.

>>49480631
7th Sea never came close to being anywhere remotely near the size of any of the World of Darkness games, but it probably WAS bigger than in Scion in the sense that it got a lot more supplements published. It's nice to see that OPP are learning through imitation and have included a relatively cheap "all the 1st edition PDFs" pledge option, but the problem is that unlike with 7th Sea, Scion's first edition only ever included so few books that anyone who might've been interested enough to pledge probably already has all of them. There's not the same kind of appeal Wick achieved by offering people dozens of hard to get, obscure 7th Sea titles for 20$.

>>49480831
Academics and subterfuge.

>>49481362
Ah, so OP is of the "Egyptians are basically Arabs" mindset.

>>49480406
>BTW, you may notice that quite a few RPG related kickstarters that came out since then (including this very one, in fact) tried offering the exact same thing, which is just more evidence of what a genius move everyone realizes it was.
I'm pretty sure all of them have done that even before 7th Sea.

>>49480458
You seem the one who's butthurt, though. You've also answered zero of my actual questions.

>>49480482
They've been doing quite a bit with that intellectual property, they've just got a slow as hell release schedule. Which, it doesn't seem like 7th Sea has released anything else since it's Kickstarter either.

I'm not saying that they couldn't handle the Kickstarters better, but you're acting like they're all thumbs fumbling around despite the fact that they've got some of the most successful Kickstarters in the category themselves.

>>49480502
>A game doesn't need to be popular to be beloved.
No, but Kickstarter is effectively a vote. If something isn't popular, it's hard to get people to vote for it. 7th Sea isn't the kind of game you hear about often, which is why I'm surprised that a game that isn't known by everyone would get so many votes.

>>49480631
Scion didn't go first. It's not even their first wholly owned IP Kickstarter. That would be Pugmire.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1861515217/scarred-landsfrpg-setting-in-both-5e-and-pathfinde/description

>I'm hard pressed to wonder how they could improve the Kickstarter, though.
Well, Wick did have a fan contest for making a short film.

>>49481733
Aspel, you really, really got to learn when to stop.

>>49481733
>You seem the one who's butthurt, though. You've also answered zero of my actual questions.
I've actually answered them three times so far. I'm not answering a fourth time. I don't know if you're deliberately ignoring the answers or if you're blind, but I'm done trying to help you.

>>49481787
Give me specifics. At best you said he drummed up interest months in advance (which most Kickstarters do) and that he made the 1e pdfs part of the deal (which most Kickstarters do). You also said he said that a future Kickstarter would release the Asian setting as it's own gamebook, which you likened to DLC, but... Onyx Path's entire schtick has been "there's an upcoming Kickstarter!"

The only thing Wick did differently was have a fan contest, but I'm the one who pointed that out. You're basically going "Wick is so brilliant!" without convincing anyone of why.

Good to know where pretty much guaranteed to get a translation guide. There were alot of cool monsters and other sorts of things in the original books, hopefully a better system can do them justice.

>>49481921
I'm not sure what the point of a Translation Guide is. Isn't the entire purpose to remake everything in a new system, but better? I thought the book itself was a translation guide.

>>49481938
The book itself is a whole new edition. A translation guide will show you how to take characters and other statlines from 1e, and convert them to work with 2e, because it's a very different system.
Even if they include every single thing from the 1e books in the 2e books(which is very unlikely), the Translation Guide will help convert characters made in 1e without having to re-make them completely.

>>49481815

>You're basically going "Wick is so brilliant!" without convincing anyone of why.

Aspel, they have stated exactly why, but you don't get it and you don't want to get it. The point isn't that Wick is some kind of genius, the point is that Wick ran a very effective Kickstarter, the must lucrative Kickstarter for any RPG, and he did it by actually understanding his audience and what they want. There are a number of things that other RPG kickstarters could have leaned from this that they probably won't, and this disappoints the poster.

It doesn't matter that what the kickstarter did was like what other kickstarters did, what matters was in how it was executed and how it was promoted. You would know this if your only exposure to the 7th Sea kickstarter wasn't just desperately looking over the page in the hopes of pretending to seem knowledgable enough to continue the conversation, because otherwise you would only have /tg/ hearsay.

>>49482024
>The point isn't that Wick is some kind of genius, the point is that Wick ran a very effective Kickstarter, the must lucrative Kickstarter for any RPG, and he did it by actually understanding his audience and what they want
Jesus fucking Christ, do I have to ask for a bullet pointed list or something? I'm asking for fucking details. What could people learn from him. How was it executed or promoted differently.

I get that you don't like me, but stop being dense.

File: Scion Second Edition Rules.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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I don't like the way Google Drive shows PDFs.

File: The Theoi.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>49482297

Is there enough to play an all Theoi game?

>>49482334

Not really, no.

>>49477960
>. Being born means you're offspring, you're fundamentally less than your parent, since your whole divinity stems from heritance.
thats not how the metaphysics of the line work. A scion born of a god starts as a human but can absolutely ascend to eclipse their parent in power

>>49482334
Yes.

>>49478986
>The influx of money would immensely increase product quality all over the RPG industry
not necessarily. They already have alot of the system and the writers pinned down at this point, more money isn't going to improve a whole lot here.

>>49482334
Maybe

>>49481938
I doubt it will be 'switch these numbers around like this and you have a 2e stablock' or anything like that. The differences between the editions are big enough its probably why they feel they need a translation guide. So likely more along the lines of explaining how statblocks are made in 2e and how to interpret what a 1e stat block was trying to get across and how to build that. As well as general system stuff and pitfalls to avoid.

>>49472585
I'm pissed it looks like we won't see an official write-up for the Yazata for 2e. Persia is best pantheon.

Why do the example characters have three callings? I thought you started with one then gained one when bumping from hero to demigod and demigod to god?

>>49483297
It's going to be one of the stretch goals, so we'll likely see it get hit at least during the surge in the last few days.

>>49483301
Playtest anon here, no you start with three. One has to be from your divine source (Parent, patron, creator, reincarnated self or whatever.) but the other two let you mix and match anything to fit your concept of the kind of god you want to become.

They also are subject to change if you encounter a Crisis for one (something that would shake you deep to the core about the calling, like if you choose Guardian or something and then utterly fail to save someone you're trying to protect) where you can choose to reinforce (double down) or alter the calling (maybe trade that Guardian for Warrior since clearly you are on the wrong path).

That's about as much as I think I can say without going into mechanics, I think.

I hate that they're doing Algonquin when the Cherokee pantheon and mythology is so much better.

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>>49483557
Cherokee get out REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>49483588
Andrew Jackson did, literally, nothing wrong. All he did was go through with a plan originated by Jefferson and inevitable if the United States was going to continue to expand without the Native Americans being exterminated entirely in reprisal for their intermittent raiding.

>>49483638
Are you fucking kidding me? He went on an illegal war that the supreme court , the HIGHEST court in the land, the only court that the constitution singles out, to kill a bunch of indians who wanted to join the united states because his slave owning buddies wanted their land. Yeah he really did nothing wrong.

>>49483697
You mean the Creek & Seminole Indians who'd slaughtered 300 people at Fort Mims? As well as constant raiding, murdering and raping of families along the Alabama and Georgia borders?

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>>49483697
>>49483638
Jesus Christ, I'm sorry if I derailed this thread. I mostly wanted to make a joke at the anon whining about the Algonquin. I'm so sorry people.

>>49483697
Those same tribes were also slave owners and many took their slaves with them on the Trail of Tears.

>>49483727
Shut the fuck up.

>>49483723
So forcing every single man, woman and child off their lands and on a forced march was a sutiabal punishment right?! Fucking RIGHT!

>>49483759
Oh then they would have fit in with the slave owners who wanted their land. both were scum.

>>49483781
>So forcing every single man, woman and child off their lands and on a forced march was a sutiabal punishment right?! Fucking RIGHT!
If the alternative is slaughtering them entirely as reprisal for their constant raiding and, let's not forget, siding with the United States enemies in every war since the nation's founding. They wanted their land back, and to get it they'd have to exterminate the white settlers living on it. The United States did the humane thing by resettling them rather than just killing every single one of them, if roles were reversed we can pull from several historical examples and say that the natives would not have been so generous.

>>49483808
They were on their own land. They wanted to join us but good ol JACKSON wanted to do his buddies a solid and we had the trail of tears. Also nothing about the Trail of Tears was humane. People starved or froze to death and the the military did nothing to stop it.

>>49483844
They had several treaties and agreements with the states already, that didn't stop them from casually murdering and stealing from the settlers living on the frontiers. The play for being admitted was just another in a long line of their delaying tactics. They would raid until the federal government was forced to get involved and then ask for a new treaty or some other diplomatic measure to reset relations with the promise they'd never go back to their murderous ways, and yet always did. Andrew Jackson led a force of actual frontiersmen, people who'd had their families preyed upon by these criminals and they put a stop to it with force. If the Trail of Tears had not happened then there simply would be no reservations because there would be no more natives. The constant raiding would only get worse as more white settlers homesteaded on the land and more deaths would mean swifter and more brutal reprisals until one side was exterminated. And when one side has a significant technological and population advantage then you can safely assume which would come out ahead.

>>49483893
>And when one side has a significant technological and population advantage then you can safely assume which would come out ahead.
The scrappy underdogs?

>>49483907
If only they'd communed with the spirit of the Bad News Bear.

>>49483930
If only more of their people had fucked their gods, clearly. The USA would be no match before a legion of demigods. This is what lack of divine infidelity gets you people: Killed and shipped across the nation in a starving, dying human train of misery. Take heed, America. Fuck a god today, save the nation tomorrow. Or do you really think the our first enemy, the British aren't breeding as fast as they can with the ancient gods of their people?

>>49483893
Oh yes, isn't that just that. Jackson leads an army of men who's family were harmed in some way by the indians. So none of them would question the fact that the orders were illegal. Besides the actions of a segment of society should not be used to justify actions agains the entire group. but then again since the other solution that your suggesting was GENOCIDE I suppose that the trail of tears was the lesser evil, if only by a hair.

>>49483949
I'd have preferred Brythonic instead either Gallic or Celtic pantheons, but then they'd have to make rules for running as sheep scions since we know no self-respecting Welsh god can mate with anything else.

>People defending Andrew Jackson's war crimes
These threads are always going to be terrible, aren't they.

>>49483954
You act like the only two options were genocide or one of the worst atrocities ever.
NOT being expansionist and imperialistic and conquering the lands of native peoples is never an option for the US, though, it's true.

>>49484048
>These threads are always going to be terrible, aren't they.
Probably less bad once we have mechanics to discuss instead of just arguing over anything.

>>49484048
Frontier settlers were not imperialist colonizers they were Europe's poor who had the audicity to see open farmland and think it'd be okay to make a life there without being raped or murdered. But hey, go on mythologizing the noble native Americans who were so saintly.

>>49484110
Yeah. Because the states that were already settled were so fucking crowded by then...

>>49484048
They are going to be problematic, that's for sure.

Heres hoping they have cool rules for magical items this time around so scions of Hephaestus and gods like him can shine. Who knows maybe even something like artifacts from exalted.

>>49484317
Playtester here, relics are kind of freeform. You have rules for what benefits you can get for points put in, and rules for drawbacks you can put on them to refund points (to put further ones on them). They let you access purviews, unique knacks or just knacks from associated callings, or plain enhancement bonuses if you want a sword that can sword SUPER HARD.

I actually rather like them. And really debating if I should just use a name for when responding to questions that I can actually answer without breaking any sharing rules, but that goes against years of instincts I've had burned into me on this site.

>>49484405
I think freeform is actually the wrong word here, and has some negative connotations on this site anyway. Build-a-Bear? Moddable?

Where the archetypes at

What the fuck is a liminal

>>49484069
We DO have mechanics, though.
People were arguing about how they're shitty and ripping off Fate.

>>49484110
>Mythologizing
>noble
Motherfucker they were literally killed for their land. I guess you'll keep on mythologizing the noble settler, endowed by the spirit of Columbia to go settle those "untamed" lands.

>>49484432
Maybe if they were good they wouldn't have lost

Fucking indian lovers

>>49484405
Yeah that was one thing i found confusing about 1e. Relics were there for accessing your purview, but could you just have a magic item that wasn't a relic built to access purview but was just a magic item for the sake of having a magic item?

>>49484468
Relics are now just the blanket term for magic items. Though granting purview access is still one of their primary useful functions.

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So in 1e, what powers or relics gave this chick the bitching double armed thing?

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What kind of offerings are common to the gods who aren't the Teotl? I know they take human hearts, blood sacrifice, animals related to their panoplies, and certain kinds of flowers and bloodless sacrifices. And I vaguely recall something about the Greek gods taking burned offerings of offal and fat. And the Norse gods enjoy their slain animals and valuable products, while Odin will take dead men on trees.

But say you want to sacrifice or make obeisance to the Tuatha or Kami or whatever. Anyone with some historical lore know this?

>>49485520
Kami I think would be incense and food items. Tuatha I think are a lot more individual about that kind of thing.

>>49485559
Incense is more of a thing for ancestor reverence. It's associated with funerals and death, and is therefore unclean. Or cleansing, depending on the religious lens (Shinto or Buddhist.) But are you willing to take the chance of offending a god?
Amaterasu would go for clothing and food, and I'm sure Susano-o would gladly accept alcohol offerings.

The Irish.... Gold, jewelry, milk, or beer could be good. Blood would probably be bad unless it's for certain gods.

>>49485369
it could be anything. relics can do anything

it could just be that's what she's like as a demigod. she's clearly a daughter of Kali.

>>49485520
Celtic gods preferred gold or food, especially food that could not be found in nature, the idea being is you are giving them something they couldn't easily get themselves. Also there was human sacrifice but that seemed to only be a way or correcting or righting some sort of wrong, it wasn't really an offering as much as an apology for fucking things up.

This is what I remember at least, I can't exactly remember my sources so eh...

>>49482334
I know what it's supposed to be.

But each time I see "Theoi" in writing I automatically translate it and get confused for a moment.

>>49482735
In power, yes, but you can't forget where you came from. You're still fundamentally below your parent, because it's your parent, and that's how it works. Which isn't necessarily wrong in real life but it doesn't fit a power fantasy setting.

>>49483341
>They also are subject to change if you encounter a Crisis for one
Oh, I'm glad to hear that. I was worried that characters would be really static and therefore get unnatural to roleplay in long campaigns.

I just had the best idea for a Created scion of Hades; one year he gets so fed up with Demeter that he pulls a Pygmalion and brings to life a statue of his wife to try and fool his mother-in-law so Persephone won't have to leave this time around. And of course she isn't fooled, so now he's just got this animated statue he doesn't quite know what to do with.

>>49483893
>>49483844
>>49483808
If y'all just say shit without sources, it's pretty meaningless.

>>49484317
The new Exalted crafting system is terrible though.

>>49485851
A bowl of rice seems to show up in depictions a lot.

>>49486209
That sounds out of character for Hades though.

>>49483557
Personally I'd rather see the gods of the Pacific Northwest.

>>49486398
what about the pacific islander gods?

>>49486445
I would put them at the Demigod level.

Maybe I just haven't read the various previews enough, but all the various types of powers the PCs have is getting kind of confusing.
There are knacks for skills, enhancement bonuses, purviews and gifts. I'm hoping it'll get easier to keep track of when the normal stuff and scion stuff are split into separate books

>>49486445

They're in Demigod as the Atua.

>tfw when your fursona started of life as a Scion character and you want to share but will be mocked and banned

help

>>49487616
Just share the yiff.

>>49487616
How's it going jakkai?

>>49472585
What's the best resource to fix Scion 1e? I'm getting my players a bit hyped for all this but I don't want to wait months to play with them

>>49487776
A bullet to the brain.

If it doesn't kill you, you might get lucky enough it gives you juuust the right sort of brain damage needed to fix it.

>>49487767

Ssh, it's Keftiu in these threads!

And I'm doing okay. Wish we had more exciting stretch goals than a conversion guide from a broken ruleset and some fiction I'll read once. Gimme Pantheons or Shards or expanded wordcounts!

>>49487776

Just run it in a generic system instead. Give Fate Core a shot so you can get the influences it has on 2e when it does come out.

>>49486130
What, Gods?
They all mean "Gods".

>>49486209
But Hades is literally the only member of the Theoi who never cheated on his wife. They have a great marriage. In fact, I like the telling of events that the "kidnapping" was just Demeter being angry that her daughter ran off with tall dark and handsome.

>>49487857
Yeah. It applies to Kami too. I don't know the other languages well enough for it to be a problem for me though.

>>49487874
>Hades is literally the only member of the Theoi who never cheated on his wife
When did Hephaestus cheat?

>>49487874
You need to work on your reading comprehension. He's cheating on the deal that he has with Demeter about Persephone going back half the year, not cheating on his marriage to Persephone.
It still seems uncharacteristic of him, because it's still breaking a deal, but it's not that kind of cheating.

>>49488117
True, forgot about him. Though part of his schtick was that he was hideous and unlovable. And he got cheated on :<

>>49488130
Sending the sex doll to your mother in law instead of using it yourself is even worse.

>>49488180
I don't think it was supposed to be a sex doll.
I don't think Demeter has sex with her daughter.

>>49488192
Pygmalion made a sex doll. If you're making an exact replica of your spouse, that's a sex doll, even if you don't put your dick in it.

>>49488204
What makes a sex doll a sex doll? I'd say it's the intended purpose, not that it theoretically could be used for sex. Anything could be used for sex if you're creative.

>>49488204
Pygmalion made a waifu, not a masturbation object.

>>49487857
>>49488110
Shen, Devas and Teotl also just means "gods" in their respective languages. Not even the culture's own gods, mind you, just any god. To a Japanese person, Poseidon is a "kami", just like to a Mexica Raiden would be a "teotl".

>>49488331

Netjer also just means god.

>>49488331
I know that, but it only bothers me in languages that I understand.
Which is probably why none of them bother OP.

>>49488331
>>49488335
Fucking ludicrous.

Onyx Path should get over the fact that most cultures didn't have a cool name for their "pantheons". Ancient peoples didn't think about what they felt were fundamental aspects of their existence in definable gameplay terms. Ultimately, even "Aesir" or "Tuatha de Danaan" aren't proper pantheon names, they all refer to specific groupings of gods. If you wanted to get technical, "Aesir" shouldn't include Freya anymore than "Dodekatheon" could include Hades.

It feels strange and arbitrary that they'd change some of the names like this with so little thought behind it. It doesn't make things more realistic, just less cool sounding. If they're worried about realism all that much, the only thing they can do is stop bothering with the names and just refer to them as "Norse Gods", "Greek Gods", "Aztec Gods", etc.

>Son of Hera, rejected by Hera, Hephaestus mans his great forge, turning out wonders without equal day and night. His great strength cannot hide his pocked and scarred face, nor his withered legs—and it was for these reasons that his mother hurled him from the heights of Olympus. For his vengeance, he crafted for her a fine throne that bound her tightly the moment she sat upon it—and it was only through the intervention of Dionysus (and a copious amount of wine) that he relented and freed her. Wed to unfaithful Aphrodite more as a joke than anything, he endured her flagrant dalliances until she lay with his brother, Ares—whence he wove a net and trapped her astraddle Ares. Vindictive? Oh yes. Brilliant? Even more so.
Hephaestus Scion leading the beta uprising when

>>49488355

Is it really any less cool? Pesedjet and Netjer are just as exotic to someone who doesn't speak Ancient Egyptian, but Netjer has the benefit of not being wrong. Likewise with the others.

I think the "progressive" inclusion obsession in the RPG industry is as ridiculous as any of you, and I cringed like a motherfucker at all the disabled folks suddenly shoved into Fate products, but I do think that if you want to have one in your game, a Scion of Hephaestus is probably a legit way of going about it. Just don't give it a wheelchair and don't stress it. Give him like a leg exoskeleton or something and justify it as divine craftsmanship. Then you can have your social justice handicapble while still being a functional character AND referring to the myth.

>>49488367
>Netjer has the benefit of not being wrong
Not really, since it would include the gods of all the pantheons.

>>49488380

I can't wait to see idiots bitch about 'queer pandering' when myth is so full of gender shenanigans.

>>49488367
>has the benefit of not being wrong
But the other names ARE wrong, it's just that now they're wrong in the other direction. Onyx Path wants each pantheon name to refer to the gods of the culture it belongs to, but now, rather than referring only to specifics subgroups thereof (which seemed to be their issue with Dodekatheon or Amatsukami), they instead refer to ALL GODS EVERYWHERE. It's equally unrealistic. YES, a Japanese person would think of the Japanese gods as Kami - but not to contrast them with the gods of any other religion.

It only sounds right to you because you don't speak any other language. If you're gonna be autistic about your pantheon names, there's no sense to doing it halfway. That's just disingenuous. Especially if you're going to do it selectively to some pantheons, but not the others (as I mentioned before, Aesir is NOT the proper name for all the Norse gods depicted in the books. They, like all the others, don't HAVE a proper name, so you either name them "Gudomar" [Swedish for "gods"], or you admit to have bizarre internally inconsistent realism double standards).

>>49488380
Yeah, same with some kind of asexual or otherwise queer Scion of a virginal or otherwise non-sexual god like Osiris or Artemis.

>>49488361
>Vindictive? Oh yes. Brilliant? Even more so.
This line sounds so fucking fedora.

>>49488380
I fully agree. Had a character in my old party who was a blind prophet Scion of Apollo, walked with a relic cane and used Epic Perception to be a Greek mythology daredevil.

>>49488367
On the other hand,
>Theoi

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>>49488355
I really don't understand why so many people are getting so hung up on the pantheon names.
>implying it's not just one guy who won't drop it

Literally who gives a shit? Just call them the Norse Gods, etc. in your own games and be done with it.

>>49488410
To be fair Hephaestus is pretty much the original fedora.
>spends all day in his forge not talking to anyone
>probable issues with women thanks to Hera and Aphrodite
>Literally built magic thrones and nets to trap first his mother and then his cheating wife and the guy who cucked him because REEEEE

>>49488445
Fucking lol. The reason they were changed in the first place was because a veritable crowd of autists going all the way back to the White Wolf forums would NEVER SHUT UP about the previous ones. Except that they cried cultural misappropriation, so their complaints were seen as legitimate concerns compared to mere logic and internal consistency.

>>49488449
You're getting your stereotypes mixed up, what you're describing is more like /r9k/.

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>>49487638

Just for you, anon.

>>49488467
>/r9k/ isn't another variety of fedora

>>49488458
I think it's more of a case of casual knowledge vs. specialized knowledge. A vastly larger number of people know that "Dodekatheon" isn't the proper name for all the Greek gods than speak Greek, so they know just enough to complain about the inaccuracy of it without realizing that they're asking for a half baked solution. Similarly, not many people know Aztec mythology but the ones who do tend to stand out, so when they go full retard asking they be renamed "Teotl" because Aztlanti refers to something completely different, it feels like there's an outcry. OPP is trying to pander to fan requests, so whoever seemed like they shouted hardest was heard.

>>49488482
Only if you use the term so generally that it becomes utterly meaningless.

>>49488445
There were evidently enough people hung up on the last batch to get Onyx Path to change them.

>>49488486
>A vastly larger number of people know that "Dodekatheon" isn't the proper name for all the Greek gods than speak Greek
You do know that theoi is a common word root in English too, right? A lot of people speak English.

>>49488503
Tell that to the average old White Wolf fanboy who believes themselves to have 4 dots in Occult because of their extensive browsing of wikipedia pages. There's no worse combination than little actual knowledge and the assumption of having a great deal.

>>49488503
>You do know that theoi is a common word root in English too, right?

I bet you most Americans don't know that. Even if they know that there're a lot of words using that component, they don't make the connection. I think it's actually easier to notice the etymological history of languages you learn to speak later in life, like English as a second language, than in your own native tongue.

Everything in your native language definitively just sounds "obvious" to you, so you don't bother to think about the linguistic sources of words.

>>49488549
I am an American though, English is my native tongue. Anyone who doesn't know that is an idiot.

>>49488560
21% of US adults read at below 5th grade level, 14% are considered illiterate. Being on /tg/, which tends to attract people from the highest ends of the IQ and education scales (hard as it can be to believe sometimes), it's easy to forget how overwhelmingly stupid the world can be on average.

>>49488580
Joining the army (Israelfag here) was an enlightening experience for me. I grew up at a very educated household and went to very upscale schools. All of my friends were nerds, because even the ones I didn't know from school, I met through our shared interests or browsing the same internet forums. All of my teachers were really good. I just took it for granted that everyone had, at the very least, a certain level of knowledge.

Then I joined the army, and for the first time in my life, had to extensively interact with people from a considerably different background.

I won't say that "the world is full of idiots", because I think that the real realization was there more "some people lead intellectually sheltered lives and have a wrong idea of what it means to be 'average'", but it certainly did feel this way. It sounds very unpleasant to say, but my first few days in basic training I literally felt like I was surrounded by retards. They even spoke a lot slower than I was used to, and half the words I used in conversation (not even technical words or anything, just words that, to me, always seemed like regular words to use) they didn't get. Their own language felt incredibly barebones, like you'd imagine a caveman talking in a cartoon.

Then I realized: this is the average person. It's me who's been living in a bubble.

I had American friends tell me that Americans often experience a similar revelation upon going to college, but I've never been to an American college so I wouldn't know that.

>>49488640
Israel has an enormous rift between the rich and poor, wouldn't be surprised to find they spoke different languages. America doesn't.

>>49488640
I had the opposite effect going to school. I went from being one of the more intellectually talented kids in a small high school to being absolutely mediocre when I was surrounded by people who had even more of what I did.

>>49488675
Some places in America are just as bad. You could live in the suburbs of a certain city your whole life and feel like you've gone to another world the first time you go to the inner city.

>>49488468
I do her. Bet she's got a dick, though.

>>49488853

Can't reinvent the Osiris myth as a queer story unless you're as a transwoman yourself!

>>49488853
>cow
>has no cowtits

What's the point

>>49488961
Meh, I've just never seen a "female" Egyptian-themed furry that wasn't also a dickgirl, futa, herm, or what have you. And I've spent a lot of time on MUCKs.

>>49489024

This is less a kink thing and more "my character should be like me."

I'm really looking forward to another shitfit about gender stuff in this thread when I wake up.

>>49485369

Appearance knack that gives you full shapeshifting capabilities

>>49488445
I don't think it's annoying so much as stupid. The name changes were meant to fix a supposed problem, but failed comically. The new names are just as wrong as the previous ones, just in a different way.

You gotta have to accept the fact ancient civilizations didn't have specific words to differentiate "their gods" from "the gods of any other civilization". It didn't work like that. The attempt itself is representative of a futile attempt to impose a modern, categorical scientific mentality on the beliefs of people who didn't share it. To ancient peoples, "gods" were a very real thing, not an imaginary concept that had to be specifically defined for academic purposes. Either they believed only their gods existed (in which case they were "the gods" by definition), or they accepted the existence of all kinds of gods but didn't hold them to be inherently different in a way that would justify that kind of distinction. "We have gods, they have gods".

The only exception is cultures which recognized different groupings of interactive gods, as was the case with the Aesir, Vanir, or Tuatha de Danan, but that's just missing the issue. The ancient Norse still didn't have a title for "All the Norse Gods", distinct from "All the Gods of Any Other Culture".

Their worldview didn't require it.

>>49488486
I know theoi and teotl just mean gods in the appropriate tongu and am unbothered by that shit here. Using the term for gods in the appropriate associated language works for me even if rationally all gods are theoi to a greek speaker. I am however bothered by the Aesir being the name for a group of gods that also includes Vanir and Jotun. Just go with the theme and call them gods in swedish or finnish or something.

I know fuck all about the Tuatha though so I have no real feeling there.

>>49489996
>The attempt itself is representative of a futile attempt to impose a modern, categorical scientific mentality on the beliefs of people who didn't share it
You'd be surprised by how much trouble /tg/ has with that concept. Just look up any thread where people are screaming at each other about whether or not a certain creature can be called a "dragon" because it has the wrong number of limbs, or whether or not "dwarfs were a kind of elf in Norse mythology".

It all happens because geeks are used to arguing about facts which are right or wrong in regard to more rigid frameworks, such as the canons of their favorite TV shows, books or video games. This mentality is so ingrained in them that they can't truly grasp the notion that mythology and folklore weren't "written" by any one individual at any given point in space or time, and certainly not with the intention of accommodating authentic future roleplaying games. They all evolved organically, over thousands of years, over huge geographic regions as stories were told and retold by hundreds of thousands. More often than not, when arguing about the specific details of a myth, the truth is that BOTH visions were probably held as "true", by various people in various places and times.

To a geek, the idea of not being able to be absolutely "right" about something is deeply uncomfortable.

>>49490043

>Using the term for gods in the appropriate associated language works for me even if rationally all gods are theoi to a greek speaker.

My problem with this is that while this is logical within the context of the game's setting (arguably, it's hard to say at this point with the changes they're implying they've made to the cosmology), it is definitely wrong within the context of its mechanics. The different groups of gods are distinct in very real ways, such as having access to different purviews, and the names are meant to support that distinction in the first place. All the gods are "theoi" to a Greek speaker, but what you need here is a word which defines the Greek gods "specifically" by their distinctiveness from any other group, and that word just doesn't exist.

>I know fuck all about the Tuatha though so I have no real feeling there.

Like the ancient Norse, the ancient Irish recognized a number of groups of gods within their own mythology who interacted with each other. The Tuatha de Danaan ("Tribe of Danu") is the name of a specific tribe of gods, like Aesir or Vanir. Yet again, though, the ancient Irish did not have a collective name for "The Irish Gods" in relation to "Any Other Kind of God". The Irish word for "Gods" (Déithe), once again, is as applicable to Brigid and Lugh as it is to Hades and Isis.

Anyone here have the 1e pdf´s? I´m reading through the 2e ones right now, but I´d like to see what the old ones where like.

>>49490159
Seriously, anon? It's time to use google.

>>49490933
I did and found them elsewhere. Sorry to bother.

>>49491223
It's alright, just google first or check 3+4chan

>>49489996
For that matter, the Norse gods weren't distinct from those of other cultures. They were pretty much (but not quite) the same as the gods worshipped by Germans and Finns.

If it's any matter to you autists, someone on the comments section of the Kickstarter just made the Pantheon name argument to one of the developers and got them to say they'll look into including alternatives in the book.

>>49491781
I just want the game mechanics to be solid, I don't give a fuck about this linguistic hand-wringing.

>>49491808
That's already doomed, from the looks of it. Focus on what you can change.

Time to discuss everyone's favorite topic: incest!

There's a lot of sister wives and generally fucking close relatives in several myths of multiple pantheons. While I feel like most new Scions mighy find that weird as fuck, the question becomes are gods like mortals where that's kind of a bad idea for a lot of reasons? And while ichor isn't blood, once mortal scions have a lot of both. Would a Greek god fucking a Chinese man result in a kid who is half white? Would it depend on the guise the incarnation was wearing at the time? And if they then met another greek godling who is by parentage a cousin or sibling, would they be genetically related in a literal sense?

>>49491867
Was the Greek god in the form of a Grecian or a Chink? Either way, it'd be of whatever heritage as the human parent until their awakening at which point they'll become magically white..thankfully.

>>49491829
I like what I've seen. This isn't the full rules as it is anyway of course so I'll reserve final judgment until a copy of the book is in front of me or at least more than a short preview.

>>49491867

I generally would go off the mortal guise for all of this.

If Zeus pretends to be a Chinese dude, any kids he sires in that time will be at least half-Chinese.

If Zeus pretends to be your close brother for whatever reason, it'll be an incest baby.

I don't think two Greek Scions would be genetic relations just based on that, but they are verifiably family.

What do you think about the new system?

>>49488239
>>49488218
Pygmalion made a beautiful statue that he fell in love with solely because of the beauty of his own craftsmenship. If you think he didn't rub one out to it...

>>49488331
>>49488345
>>49488355
>Onyx Path should get over the fact that most cultures didn't have a cool name for their "pantheons"
Yeah, they should just stop giving them fancy names and just call them "Gods" in their respective languages!
Oh wait, that's exactly what they did.

>>49488392
>>49488402
>>49488501
>>49488458
>It's equally unrealistic.
No it's not. You're just an idiot who can't understand simple concepts. Yes, a Japanese person would call all Gods "Kami" in the real world. But in The World, they'd call their own the Kami and everyone else's whatever their Pantheon specific name is.
Nevermind that this isn't actually the real world, it's a fictionalized version where the Gods are real, so people would have lived with this kind of thing for ages, and giving groups like the Aesir one specific name isn't such a big deal as you're making it out to be. And flipping out about this while calling other people autistic just shows how little that term has meaning.

>>49490127
>>49490043
I like the fact that each pantheon uses it's own word for God to refer to themselves. It seems reasonable and makes sense.
> All the gods are "theoi" to a Greek speaker, but what you need here is a word which defines the Greek gods "specifically" by their distinctiveness from any other group, and that word just doesn't exist.
The other Gods of Scion aren't Theoi to the Greeks, though. Theoi may be the term they use to refer to all deities, but to refer to the Egyptians, they'd call them Netjer and so on.

>>49491949

There's a lot that I think is cute. Stuff like Momentum/Tension, making successes the primary currency rather than dice, etc.

I still expect them to bungle the Attributes and assign weird Attrib+Ability combinations as a result. The 3x3 has never worked because they refuse to actually define/obey the 3x3. But that's comparatively easy to fix.

We haven't seen any full-fleshed Purviews, though, which will be the real make or break for me.

>>49491967
>No it's not. You're just an idiot who can't understand simple concepts. Yes, a Japanese person would call all Gods "Kami" in the real world. But in The World, they'd call their own the Kami and everyone else's whatever their Pantheon specific name is.
>Nevermind that this isn't actually the real world, it's a fictionalized version where the Gods are real, so people would have lived with this kind of thing for ages, and giving groups like the Aesir one specific name isn't such a big deal as you're making it out to be. And flipping out about this while calling other people autistic just shows how little that term has meaning.
Hi, Wick. Come to bother other projects as well, I see? A game is about historical accuracy when it makes it easier for you justify your bullshit and it's about a fictional unrelated world when it makes research hard? Learned nothing from Legend of the Five Rings?

>main character of the shared bit of fiction is named Eileen
>Dexys Midnight Runners plays softly in the distance.

>>49491928
I don't think the god's shape affects the kid at all. They get ichor from their divine parent, but ethnicity comes from their non divine parent. I mean, Zeus slept with people as a bull, an ant, a swan, and a shower of gold, but the kids aren't weird half-breeds, they're just semi-divine Greeks.

>>49488380
>I think the "progressive" inclusion obsession in the RPG industry is as ridiculous as any of you
Speak for yourself. I think all the bitching is childish, though I do love people whining that they can't imagine the black Watch_Dogs 2 protagonist being a hacker, or that they're returning their preorder for Mafia III because they don't want to play out the Charlotte riots.

>>49488400
Which Knack lets me shapeshift into a female horse and then get knocked up and give birth to a fancy eight legged spiderhorse?

>>49491967
>No it's not. You're just an idiot who can't understand simple concepts. Yes, a Japanese person would call all Gods "Kami" in the real world. But in The World, they'd call their own the Kami and everyone else's whatever their Pantheon specific name is.
>Nevermind that this isn't actually the real world, it's a fictionalized version where the Gods are real, so people would have lived with this kind of thing for ages, and giving groups like the Aesir one specific name isn't such a big deal as you're making it out to be. And flipping out about this while calling other people autistic just shows how little that term has meaning.
What. Who's ever said that? These are literal words in the language. Of course Greek speaker would actually call all gods theoi. That's what it means in the Greek language. Do you think everyone is born instinctively speaking English and then learns the local language to make life hard for tourists?

>>49492023
>What. Who's ever said that? These are literal words in the language. Of course Greek speaker would actually call all gods theoi. That's what it means in the Greek language. Do you think everyone is born instinctively speaking English and then learns the local language to make life hard for tourists?
I don't know about anywhere else, but they absolutely do this in Italy.

>>49492013
Metamorphosis purview, but that's greek only. Maybe some demigod or god level trickster shit

>>49491967
>Yes, a Japanese person would call all Gods "Kami" in the real world. But in The World, they'd call their own the Kami and everyone else's whatever their Pantheon specific name is.

I'm pretty sure the Japanese in the World still speak Japanese. It's our own world with the mythology overlaid beneath it, not a version of our own world with language culture all over the planet changed in bizarrely specific ways to accommodate more convenient discussion about various mythologies by a populace largely ignorant of their importance.

>>49488961
Why does a character who's meant to be Osiris have a cow head?
Also, wouldn't that mean she *doesn't* have a dick?

>>49491411
7chan has pdfs?
It's still around?

>>49491867
They take on mortal guises that aren't at all consistent. I don't think genetic testing would ever come up, but who knows. DNA gets weird when you think about shapeshifting.

>>49492082
>Why does a character who's meant to be Osiris have a cow head?
>Also, wouldn't that mean she *doesn't* have a dick?
Why're you trying to put logic between anon and his magical realm? (the cow head may be because Osiris was sometimes associated with bulls, but the Egyptians viewed cows and bulls very differently and would've associated one with Hathor. Anon just wants to play a cowgirl)

>>49491980
Yeah, just releasing a single purview like fire or something so we get an idea of what is to come.

>>49491967
>Yeah, they should just stop giving them fancy names and just call them "Gods" in their respective languages!
No, you imbecile. They should just refer to them by originating cultures instead of trying to pretend that each one is a concrete and distinct pantheon with its own special names. Hell, they're already moving away from doing that from a mechanical perspective by making the Loa a lens to see the Yoruba pantheon. Why not do it in naming sense too?

>Yes, a Japanese person would call all Gods "Kami" in the real world. But in The World, they'd call their own the Kami and everyone else's whatever their Pantheon specific name is.
Yeah, but by that token you might as well make up a name and say "well now they call their own gods Jonglefetters". Just because you can use fiat doesn't make it accurate.

>>49491982
Stop being an idiot. You're not even making a reasonable argument. The entire point of The World is that it's not the real world. People will have grown up referring to the Gods in that way. "Our Gods are Gods, their Gods are whatever".
Or, you know, calling themselves Gods, but calling the other people different things because you don't consider them as Godly as you.
Hell, it could even be something the pantheons themselves worked out as a standard method of communication and respect.

>>49492023
What?
I'm saying that "Theoi" is the general term a Greek person in The World will use for Gods, and the term they'll use for their OWN Gods, but if they're talking about the Japanese, they'll use the term Kami.

>>49492057
Are you saying that Japanese people are physically unable to say "Theoi"?
It's also not a bizarrely specific way, it's logic and you'd need such a way to accommodate more convenient discussion about various mythologies because not everyone is ignorant of their existence. If nothing else, Scions and the Gods themselves would talk like this.

>>49492139
It doesn't even need to be accurate, it just needs to be workable. I'm sorry that calling them [the Greek word for God] instead of [the Greek Gods] triggers you, but most people don't give a shit and are perfectly fine with a more elegant solution, even if in the real world it doesn't work 100%. It doesn't need to work 100%, either in our world or in The World.
And if I'm not mistaken, they're also doing the thing where a God can belong to multiple Pantheons.

>>49491980
They were already doing successes as the main thing in 1e with epic attributes.

>>49492179
>The entire point of The World is that it's not the real world.
The World is enough like the real world on the surface that it's ludicrous to assume all languages have evolved so differently as to have people referring to the various gods by the names of the cultures that made them up. Hell, that's not even the evolution of language. That implies a religious history so radically different from our own world's, starting to far back into the past, that by today it's impossible to even begin to imagine how it might look.

>>49492199

You misunderstand; you got a lot of successes in 1e but they weren't really the currency of doing stuff. You didn't spend or manipulate them, they just came up and that was your result. Dice were the currency.

>>49492179
>It doesn't even need to be accurate
Then why not keep the wrong but cool-sounding names of 1e? Why swap them for wrong and slightly less cool-sounding ordinary fucking words they're telling us about now?

>>49492179
>Are you saying that Japanese people are physically unable to say "Theoi"?

A. Hilariously enough, yes, they actually are, since their language doesn't include the proper pronunciation of the "Th" sound. At the very least, they'll have a hard time learning how to. Nice knowing you have this little of an idea about what you're trying to argue, though!

B. No, but they'd still be speaking Japanese. Besides your general ignorance of foreign languages, you also seem to be completely unaware of how things like HISTORY work on any but the most basic level. You cannot even grasp the magnitude of the changes to the timeline you'll have to make in order for it to be anywhere NEAR reasonable for language to evolve so that people have specific, foreign words they all use for other nation's gods. Even if the gods did exist and everybody knew about them, it literally wouldn't be enough. You'd have to have those gods meddle in everything to the point that language and the interaction between all cultures ever has taken such a drastically different course than it did in our own history that the two worlds wouldn't even be comparable.

>>49492179
>Are you saying that Japanese people are physically unable to say "Theoi"?
Have you ever heard a Japanese person attempt to pronounce th? Japanese people aren't physically incapable of learning other languages, but pretty much all of them will just use Japanese, because that's the language they know.
>it's logic
It's fucking not.
>you'd need such a way to accommodate more convenient discussion about various mythologies because not everyone is ignorant of their existence
Unless you used a non-retarded naming scheme.

>If nothing else, Scions and the Gods themselves would talk like this.
That actually brings up another reason why this is stupid. It's not fucking natural. Have you ever been at a Scion table, or talked about religion with normal people ever? People pretty much just call them by their culture anyway. They're the Greeks, or the Japanese, and in the somewhat rare situation that context requires you to clarify their divinity, then they the Greek gods or Japanese gods.

>>49491980
>I still expect them to bungle the Attributes and assign weird Attrib+Ability combinations as a result. The 3x3 has never worked because they refuse to actually define/obey the 3x3. But that's comparatively easy to fix.
What?

>>49492237
This isn't exactly some radical change. It's literally not going to come up in the average person's day to day life.
>That implies a religious history so radically different from our own world's, starting to far back into the past, that by today it's impossible to even begin to imagine how it might look.
So does THE LITERAL EXISTENCE OF DEITIES, but you have to ignore that fact.

>>49492251
Because the ones in 1e were more wrong. Calling them Gods in the home language (or in the case of Tuatha and Aesir, the names of the main deity group) is much more elegant.
Also Dodekatheon sounds stupid.

>>49492290
>>49492314
Japanese people are not physically unable to pronounce Theoi, they're just not used to it. Just like American people are not physically unable to pronounce Japanese words, we're just unused to it. シーオイ is good enough, just like "Theoi" is good enough for Θεοί.
Watch 4chan not show those foreign characters.

I feel like you're missing the point entirely, though. History and language don't need to change. Just like history and language don't need to have changed for me to call a certain type of shoe a "moccasin", or one type of flatbread "pizza" while another is a "flammekueche".

>Unless you used a non-retarded naming scheme.
Like using that language's term for Gods? Yeah, I know. That would work pretty well.

>People pretty much just call them by their culture anyway.
The actual characters would have referred to the pantheons by the name of their pantheons, as is the norm for their setting. Just because you don't roleplay doesn't mean everyone else fails to.

>>49477321
>the least interesting
Which is why they're giving it away for free

>>49492522
>more wrong
Wrong is wrong. The only real way we can say which is more is which has the wrongness come up more often. The old names were wrong for a handful of gods, in a handful of languages. This is wrong for almost all the gods from the perspective of almost every language used.

>>49492522
>Watch 4chan not show those foreign characters.
How new are you?

>>49492522
>Dodekatheon sounds stupid
You're probably pronouncing it wrong then.

>>49492522
>Just because you don't roleplay doesn't mean everyone else fails to.
>if you don't use shitty naming conventions you're not REALLY roleplaying
What if you want to roleplay as a character who talks like a normal human being due to beign raised by humans in a non-divine context? Like, say, a scion?

>>49492522
>>I still expect them to bungle the Attributes and assign weird Attrib+Ability combinations as a result. The 3x3 has never worked because they refuse to actually define/obey the 3x3. But that's comparatively easy to fix.
>What?

In nWoD, they switched to the power/finesse/resistance-by-physical/social/mental paradigm, but didn't actually design around that.

They went "Okay, so what would a physical+power stat be?" "Strength, duh" and then designed around giving Strength the things it would "logically" do. Repeat for all other stats.

This resulted in stats that are used effectively at random and interchangeably, defeating the purpose of doing the 3x3 in the first place (Wits vs. Dex and Resolve vs. Composure are super good examples of this).

The way the rules SHOULD work for a 3x3 is "here is how a Power stat behaves, here is how a Finesse stat behaves, and here is how a Resistance stat behaves," and then you apply phy/soc/men where appropriate.

>At $150,000, we'll expand the Scion Companion PDF with a big section on Cults. From Neall: "Heroes, in ancient Greece and Rome, were often venerated after death because their deeds in life had given them special power to protect and defend the living. Your Heroes don't have to die to be venerated or interact with groups of followers all their own, though. At this big stretch goal, we delve into Cults, and how to handle large groups of followers or religious worshippers dedicated to Gods and Scions at the Hero level. We'll cover how to create tutelary deities as well - specific gods with or without pantheons who are dedicated to an area. Lastly, we'll cover how to apply Purviews to a larger scale than a normal Scion game."

>>49492846
26k to go then.

>>49492846
I hope they get to that. That sounds pretty cool.

New thread soon. Can it be Aztec seal topped?

>>49492624
The current one isn't wrong at all, you just disagree with it.

>>49492637
Old enough to not trust 4chan when it comes to showing all characters. Admittedly it's good with languages, but I've used ASCII that didn't show up.

>>49492676
>People in this world use certain terms
>I'll just NOT use those terms
>This is somehow MORE roleplaying

>>49492657
No, it's just not a good looking or sounding word. It's also silly to refer to all the Greek Gods as being the 12. Much stupider than referring to all Greek Gods as "God, but in Greek".

>>49492695
I have not found that to be as much of a problem as you're making it sound. Though they do favour some Attributes over others, and there are some uses that seem random, most of them I can understand why they chose what they chose.

>>49488117
He tried to rape Athena.

>Hecate and Janus not in the Theoi

i mad

>>49492290
>So does THE LITERAL EXISTENCE OF DEITIES, but you have to ignore that fact.
> Even if the gods did exist and everybody knew about them, it literally wouldn't be enough.
He did refer specifically to that, you're the one who's choosing to ignore the facts that inconvenience you. As anon said, the existence of deities by itself will not be enough to create a sufficient change in history. They'll have to actually interfere with it to the point where it will be unrecognizable for this to make sense. Of course you can always say "LOOK, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, THE GODS JUST MADE IT THIS WAY, IT'S MAGIC I AIN'T GOTTA EXPLAIN SHIT", but that is the absolute worst possible kind of worldbuilding and anyone who stoops down to it is barely worthy of being called a GM (mostly because as soon as you've justified one piece of completely nonsensical bullshit with GMs fiat it becomes impossible to justify not doing it any number of other times, and by then your setting is just completely arbitrary, internally inconsistent and becomes impossible to play in).

>>49493113
Please, Hephaestus. She seems like a classy lady, you woo her not rape like any random nymph strumpet or Aphrodite.

>>49494017
thread of the new

>>49493163
>As anon said, the existence of deities by itself will not be enough to create a sufficient change in history.
Yes it would.
For fucks sake they literally caused Hitler.
You can find temples to the Theoi in modern America.
What the fuck is wrong with you people getting hung up on the fact that the Pantheons use their own native language's name for "God"?