/wfg/

>>49345784
>At least in older editions this was pretty clear, as their prayers could not blocked by your opponent.

1ed WFRP treated clerical magic exactly the same as regular, but with an added 'Did God Ignore Your Prayer' chart.

>>49346828

This. For my own 2 cents, I prefer the idea that there are no gods and it's all magic.

>>49347371
>Quantity over quality is literally the worst way to fight undead.

Nagash is literally one of the greatest wizards in the setting, it's hardly a balanced example.

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Second for noise marines

>>49350545
Question Time for Warhammer Fans:

If you were going to make a comedic slice-of-life show set in the Warhammer World, who would the stars be?

trying to learn the table top and get all the necessities. Do 40k spell/fire templates work for fantasy? I can get 40k ones for $5 and would rather use nice plastic instead of the crazy metal ones for fantasy.

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>>49351573
A friar tuck style Bretonnian peasant, or perhaps a Don Quioxte knight.
An Empire wizard or greatsword
A wandering wood elf
A slayer
A Strigoi that's lost most of his memory and is used to humorous effect

>>49351573
Thanquol and Ikit. Would pretty much be pinky and the brain.

I reckon I figured out how to make Enemy at War's characterization of Karl-Franz work with 2e lore.

Karl-Franz, in Enemy at War, is being poisoned by warpdust. His ambitious nephew (and heir), Wolfgang Holswig-Abenaur comes to Altdorf to declare himself Lord Protector as Karl-Franz has been increasingly isolated and sick.

Keep all that the same, except make Wolfgang not his heir, just an ambitious relative. And make Luitpold young enough that he won't factor it. Karl-Franz is sickly and dying (from poisoning) and young Crown Prince Luitpold is only seven, and thus his Lord-Protector cousin, Wolfgang, arrives to protect him.

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>>49353303
THIS ACTION DOESN'T HAVE MY CONSENT

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Did wood elves gifted Deathclaw to Karl? I thought he got griffon when he was kid, also what was purpose of WE protecting and watching over him his entire life?

>>49353416
S'gon be rape, then. Okay.

I'M GONNA GPAPE YOU IN THE MOUTH

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>>49353615
Technically he did get the griffin when he was a kid. It was just the wood elves who gave him the egg. And he fights against many of the same enemies they do, but they don't have to hold the Empire's hand like they have to keep watching to make sure the Bretonnians don't get uppity.

>>49352955
Yeah, they do.

>>49352964
Who would you cast?

>>49353167
>What-what are we doing tonight-night, most splediferous of splendid Masters?

>>49353303
Sounds like it could work, but it may get a little twisty towards the end. It all depends on if you can get your players there. TEW is a hell of a campaign.

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>>49353993
>when he was a kid.
He wasn't emperor until his 30s in 2502. I think that episode happened in 2503 according to WE calendar.
I hope CA will make references to their friendship when wood elves came out.

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>>49353978
SIGMAR FORBIDS THIS

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>>49354317
i love the way empire generals say that
its as if you lifted their metal skirt to reveal their Emperor Karl Franz™ brand pantsu and it embarrassess them

>>49353993
Karl x Naieth OTP.

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>>49354590
Is there any newer art of her?

I miss the days when Karl Franz was a great politician and not a raging super Sue.

>>49355154
Its Warhammer after all, every ruler should be exceptional fighter.

>>49353303
The "Elector count" title is hereditary, but the "Emperor" one?

>>49355182
>>49355182

That's the thing, not all of them are. Lizardmen don't exactly have one leader but Mazdamundi is a Slann and has a skink to get into slap fights for him. Same with the sorcerers who rule Zharr Naggrund. I'm not sure if Finubar is anything special compared to Princes as he hasn't had rules.

Back in 6th Karl was nearly killed by some literally-who warboss, and he even had Ghal-Maraz with him. Sigmar had to bail him out. I just always saw him as a shrewd thinker who got Leitdorf killed, that would delegate and not ride out on a dragon to show what an awesome warrior he is too.

>>49355274
It's been known to pass from father to son, but the other Electors have to vote for him.

>>49353303
>poisoned by warpdust
>poisoned
>not developing awesome powers and/or mutations from it

man-things so pathetic

>>49353303
Don't make it warp dust, make it some kind of obscure Cathayan/Nipponese poison.

>>49355299
>but Mazdamundi is a Slann
Slann not known for martial skills, but for best magic use, he wipes out armies by himself.

>Finubar
He doesn't but his wife has, and known for leading armies in battle.

>I just always saw him as a shrewd thinker who got Leitdorf killed, that would delegate and not ride out on a dragon to show what an awesome warrior he is too.
He is one of two persons in Empire who rides dragon.

>>49354640
isn't she a redhead?

>>49355356
finubar has a wife?

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>>49355379
?

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What are some fun careers for WFRP 2e? I need a backup for the eventual death of my current character.

>>49355388
The Phoenix King and the Everqueen are only required to be married for one year, during which they must produce a daughter who will become the next Everqueen. After that they are free to marry whomever they choose.

>>49355356
I was referring to fighting physically.

>>49355451
Marine and work your way up to Sea Captain. I started out as Soldier first and then moved into Marine but it was still the best character I've played.

>>49355451
Aside from the obviously superior roleplaying experience of the trollslayer, I'd have to say that marine or seaman look fun. Also the hedge mage is rather interesting.

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>>49355459

I have been considering one of the seadog careers, maybe it's time to try one out.

>>49355466

I would love to try the trollslayer just to see how long i can last, problem is our current campaign is a long one so people get to use a certain amount of XP to catch up and i don't wanna cheat past the advancements for slayer.

Alternative i can just say fuck it and try jumping straight into things with trollslayer and see how long he lasts against our current enemies.

>>49355466
just gotta be careful with typos
playing a "hedge MAZE" is less fun

>>49355489
You could have the best of both worlds and play a dward seaman or marine, and if something appropriatly shameful happens along the way you can shave your hair and take the Slayer Oath.

>>49355522
>dward

>similar to dwarf, but not as soft
cool

>>49355615
4chan on mobile is suffering.

>>49355522

My dream campaign is something like all sailor party and the setting is like pirates of dark water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_5F1zYQF5M

Which faction most deserved an update before the squatting and why was it Bretonnia?

Which older faction deserved to be resurrected and why was it Chaos Dwarfs?

Which faction from the lore deserved to have a new army and why was it Cathay?

Have the empire and kislev fought each other?
Have the empire and brets fought each other?

if so please provide examples.

>>49355715
>cathay
no

>>49355726
yeah

>>49355726
Yes.

>>49355736
No you filthy gook. Its either all of them or none at all.

>>49355715
Bretonnia was over ten years out of date and anyone who felt that ogres needed their own book deserves a lance to the face.

>>49355708
My group's favourite campaign was about pirates working for a Norscan captain. By the end we were all mutants and had done some pretty crazy shit. I punched Ikit Klaw in the face and stole a prototype mechanical arm from his workshop.

>>49355723
During the years preceding the formal formation of Kislev, the Gospodars waged war against the Empire. Tzarina Katarin's blade, Fearfrost, was used in many of those campaigns. I don't believe they fought after they became a true nation.

Bretonnia and the Empire have fought several times. There have been battles over Marienburg and a battle of Norduin in which super Karl broke the Bretonnian lines and forced them back. The canon of this battle is dubious as it is quite old now.

>>49355715
>Cathay
yes, another game universe needed asia theme park. with pandas and red color everywhere. *sigh*

>>49355755
All of what?

>>49355774
nips and ind and khuresh and araby
and hobgobla khan.
>>49355768
more about norduin please.

>>49355773
>asia
you mean china.

>>49355797
i mean asia. in such things it always ends up as generic mix of china/japan/korea/tibet. oh, WHFB would probably avoid having katanas in Cathai, but only 'cos there's Nippon.

>>49355773
If all you can picture is "Asian theme park" then that's all on you and your shit imagination/lack of historical knowledge m8

>>49355826
Ogres have been known to use 'Cathayan Longswords' that are essentially katana.

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>>49355773
>nippon total war
>YOOOOO starts playing

>>49355786
There isn't much to tell. I think it was mentioned in the 7th edition Empire book under Franz's entry. He lead the Reiksguard and forced the Bretonnians to quit the field.

>>49355841
oh, i know enough. i know what that stuff becomes in games. see WoW Mists of Pandaria for most glaring example.

>>49355847
exactly what i'm talking about

>>49355857
>ladyfags outridden by the based reiksguard
good.

>>49355861
>Pandaria is literally mao's propaganda poster complete with absence of swallows and gigantic vegetables.

>>49355489
>I would love to try the trollslayer just to see how long i can last, problem is our current campaign is a long one so people get to use a certain amount of XP to catch up and i don't wanna cheat past the advancements for slayer.

Best campaign of WFRP I've ever played was going through the Slayer career. You won't regret it.

>>49355708
Our current game looks like it's going a similar path. We've set up a trading post in the Under Empire and we're sailing in search of resources that could prove profitable down here. So far farming giant spiders has been the only option we've considered pursuing.

>>49355715
>Which faction from the lore deserved to have a new army and why was it Cathay?

Nah mate, I reckon Kislev needed it. Cathay should have gotten one eventually, but they should have done a Warhammer: The Dark Orient campaign and made up armies for Cathay, Ind, Khuresh and the Eastern Steppes.

Fucking Hobgoblin armies, fuck yes.

>>49355786

Fuck yeah.

>>49355826
Question - in broad strokes, how would you set out Cathay, Ind, Khuresh, Nippon and Araby as armies with distinct feels that didn't infringe too much on the current load?

>>49355786
Except Cathay is a huge empire whereas Ind, Nippon, etc. are smaller nations. If any Eastern nation ought to be represented it is Cathay.

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>>49355299
>Back in 6th Karl was nearly killed by some literally-who warboss, and he even had Ghal-Maraz with him
That Warboss was fucking huge and if he didn't die in that battle he would be a pretty important named character. He was also leading a WAAAGH that could have wiped out several provinces if it wasn't stopped right there in blackfire pass. Marius, despite his antics, was a very capable fighter and the fact that he got BTFO by that Warboss goes to shiw how powerful it was. Karl Franz actually stalemated it for a while, but he's just a man while that orc was 6x his size and has the benefit of not getting tired.
8ed Franz isn't any stronger than 6ed Franz, the story is exactly the same.

>>49355888
what a waste of trips

>>49355867
mao did nothing wrong

>>49355879
>Question -
in WHFB? i just wouldn't. WHFB operates on exaggerated stereotypes and cliches. you don't see much Holy Roman Empire in fantasy, and vikings normally don't have a demonic twist, it worked fine so far. but asian cultures have been overdone a thousand times in exactly that exaggerated cliche style. do it Warhammer way, and you get Pandaria. make them entirely original, and it wouldn't be Warhammer.

so I wouldn't touch that part at all. every map needs blank spaces with just vague names and rumours of what may or may not be there.

>>49355922
he died too soon.

>>49355936
I agree that some things should be left as mysterious. It allows you to make up your own stuff, like my not!Sub-Zero Lin Kuei clan to entice my group's That Guy to stop being That Guy.

>>49355936
>so I wouldn't touch that part at all. every map needs blank spaces with just vague names and rumours of what may or may not be there.

So, your conclusion is...nothing. Well done. Your originality is astounding.

>>49355879

Alright, in broad strokes.

>Hobgobbos
I think this might already be a thing. Combine elements of Orcs and Goblins, Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres into a blender. Pulse. Serve cold. I'm seeing elite light cavalry backed by a shit load of cannon fodder gnoblars.

>Khuresh
Monstrous Cavalry specialists. A lot of poison weapons. Swamp themed monsters.

>Araby
I'd like to see them as a Human/Undead cross army. Bedouin nomads supported by undead allies. Humans form light skirmishers and mounted aux troops, backed by djinn sorcerers who command legions of standard undead.

>Nippon
Elite infantry focus army. Heavy elf influence, a lot of cross culture going on. Take High Elves, nobble the magic bullshittery and take everything down to human levels, add numbers. Maybe a focus on air options?

>Ind
Monsters, nagas and heroic demigods everywhere.

>Cathay
Cheap infantry, elite stone golem troops, fuck-off huge dog monsters, elite anti-chaos Great Bastion army lists.

>>49355936
You don't have to make them entirely original. It is possible to do Chinese inspired cultures well in fantasy - it just means depending more on history and research than stereotypes.

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>>49356001
>Heavy elf influence, a lot of cross culture going on. Take High Elves, nobble the magic bullshittery and take everything down to human levels
So Empire?

>>49350545
how come no fantasy australia

>>49356001
>So, your conclusion is...nothing.
exactly. the only way not to lose is to not play

>>49356028
now that's a good question. while maori stuff is getting popular in gaming, it's still fresh enough that Warhammer could SET the cliches, not use them.

how about we develop one?

>>49356028

In Warhammer fantasy magical words can kill and we don't need to arm an entire continent of banters.

>>49356001
I can't imagine Araby would command undead troops seeing as how they're next door neighbours to the Tomb Kings. Summoning undead to defend your cities would probably scare the shit out of your citizens and encourage Tomb King attacks as they hate Nagash and his disciples. Anti-undead would make more sense, some kind of blessed warriors or men who carry sanctified weapons to lay their sleepless neighbours to rest.

>>49356028
There's already a man eating hellhole, it's called Lustria.

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>>49356028
Britbongs are cave people in WHFB.

>>49356040
>Maori
>Australia

m8

>>49356055
*sigh*

we're talking about universe that has Arthurian England and 100 Year War France merged, Golden Horde era Rus and 16th century Poland merged, fucking katanas in fucking Cathai AND YOU EXPECT not!MAORI NOT TO BE IN not!AUSTRALIA?! you're delusional.

>>49356055
Is there even a not-Australia in Warhammer?

>>49356109
no, the area it should be in is taken up by fake southeast asia and fake antarctica. the real question is why there isnt one when they have fakeouts for all the other continents

>>49356116
Because Brits hate Australians.

>>49356116
aussies won rugby the year WHFB map was drawn?

>>49356128
>rugby
I thought cricket was more popular in britbongistan?

maybe the brits lost the ashes.

>>49356122

To be fair everyone hates Australians.

>>49356203
do Australians hate Australians?

>inb4 even more than other do

>>49356216
Damn Australians, they ruined Australia!

>>49356023
More elf-y. But yeah, just another flavour of Empire.

>>49356040
>exactly. the only way not to lose is to not play
Nah, you're still losing in the big picture.

>>49356052
>I can't imagine Araby would command undead troops seeing as how they're next door neighbours to the Tomb Kings

I thought the Tomb Kings and Araby were balls deep in each other? Like, full bossom buddies.

>>49356109
Skeggi is not!Australia.

>>49356216
Nah. We love ourselves.

>>49356216

More than anything else.

>>49356222

Them Australians sure are a contentious people.

>>49356236
>I thought the Tomb Kings and Araby were balls deep in each other?
Araby is terrified of Nehekara and they get invaded all the time. If anything some Araby cities swear fealty to the tomb kings to avoid getting everyone slaughtered. When ever the tomb kings decide to butt fuck the living, Araby is always first on their list. Araby did learn some shit like a few of their magical practices from being next to nehekara so long, but its not like their allied nations or anything.

>>49356236
>>bossom buddies

Not that I've read. Tomb Kings have no friends or traditional allies and make war among themselves as much as with others. They have elf level arrogance and exact dwarf level revenge. Remember that trinket your grandpa looted in the south two decades ago? King Khazuthep the Angry is here to kill your entire family to take it back.

>>49355388
Sweet, a new picture of Alarielle for my folder.

>>49356261
>If anything some Araby cities swear fealty to the tomb kings to avoid getting everyone slaughtered.

That might be what I'm thinking - that the TK see Araby as their subjects and smack a bitch when they get too uppity.

Hypothetically, just hypothetically, you are put in charge of an official ship between Karl Franz and one of the following
Naieth
Alarielle
Morathi

How do you go about plausibly writing a hook for that happening?

>>49356448
>Naieth
GW's canon as shown above, Wood Elves were protecting that perfect human specimen for breeding purposes.

>>49356448
>How do you go about plausibly writing a hook for that happening?

The action did not have his consent.

>>49356448
Morathi to not only have Middenland ripped out of the old world and dragged to norsca, but also have a Witch Emperor who's an eternal pretender to the throne of the empire

>>49356549
>Witch Emperor who's an eternal pretender to the throne of the empire
so... Vlad?

>>49356560
He isn't descendant of Sigmar and emperors unlike KFC.

>>49356571
>descendant of Sigmar
Sigmar didn't have any kids.

>>49356598
He had two bastard sons which were hidden from him.

>>49356601
He knew about them but opted not to take them away from their mother, saying that the Empire wasn't meant to be ruled by one dynasty. Kinda weird since Nagash showed him the Time of the Three Emperors, but it would probably happen anyway somewhere down the line.

>>49356601
>>49356614

What's that from?

>>49356646
Time of Legends, the Sigmar series. Sigmar secures the swordoath of the Asoborn queen Freya by spending a night with her as she's a sexually liberated woman. Unsurprisingly, they produce a child, two boys at that.

>>49356646
time of legends, but how to get karl with elf waifu?

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>>49356614
He should have sire daughter and elect emperor as her husband, make their first daughter the new Empress and chose new Emperor from elector counts as usual.

>>49356663
The Counts only became Elector Counts after Sigmar left without any plan on what to do after he abdicated and left the Empire. And it's not like he had a choice which gender the kid would be.

>>49353167
>It's Thanquol and Ikit
>Yes Thanquol and Ikit
>One is a madrat, the other's insane!

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>>49356680
Nah, how Empire can live without Everempress the avatar of Rhya?

>>49355451
Dung Shoveler gets Fearless at chargen.

>>49356731
Go to bed, Otillia.

>>49356663
If Sigmar had his way, the Empire would have been a meritocracy rules by the truly worthy.

>>49356571
Sigmar named ALL the Empire's people to be his heirs. He doesn't have a preference for his own blood.

>>49356614
> Kinda weird since Nagash showed him the Time of the Three Emperors, but it would probably happen anyway somewhere down the line.

He didn't know if it was real or not. Even if it was he mistakenly thought it was a better alternative to what Nagash was offering.

Had he yielded to Nagash that day, then the world would have been saved from its destruction in the End Times. A dead world is a world free from Chaos.

>>49356766
A dead world is a dead world. That's like saying we should kill ourselves so we don't feel pain anymore.

>>49356766
>He doesn't have a preference for his own blood.
But his descendants had superhuman powers, and only their blood relation allowed Sigmar to resurrect Karl.

>>49356766
>A dead world is a world free from Chaos.
>Not thinking the Gods of Chaos would just see this as a new challenge.

Would it be possible to marry the Emperor to the Everqueen and unite the realms of men and elves?

Everqueens don't go in for the "until death do us part" type of arrangement anyway and all she has to do is wait 50 years or so for husband to die naturally.

Also its hinted at/stated that humans and elves share a common ancestor so its not too out of the question.

>>49356766
>Implying undead can't be corrupted by chaos.

>>49356774
>That's like saying we should kill ourselves so we don't feel pain anymore.
Vampires are a thing.

>>49356796
Vampires still can be possessed by daemons and worship chaos.

>>49356788
Very doubtful, bordering on the impossible. I know it's a fap fantasy, but would one of the richest families in the world just offer their most beautiful and talented daughter to some penniless hobo?

>>49356796
I'd rather not become an amoral predator, forever in fear of death and subject to the will and whims of Nagash. More often than not vampires are evil dicks.

>>49356783
Sigmar doesn't have control over genetics or fate. Sigmar was born into this world by the will of mysterious "great powers" who proceeded to shape his fate. Though, they left enough things unwritten so that his action might complete his destiny.

Sigmar, the person, viewed all the Empire to be his sons and daughters. Heck, he even saw Archaon was a wayward son.

>Sigmar to resurrect Karl.

He didn't ress Karl.

Sigmar's soul possessed Karl's corpse.

>>49356735
that's a nice pun!

>>49356800
Only in the Age of Si- er, End Times """""fluff."""""

>>49356813
Weekend at Karl's 2: Weekendier

>>49356816
Not really. In the WHRP, a Necromancer invokes the Chaos Gods to ress a vampire.

>>49356816
Drachenfels is pretty much chaos undead. His castle later become source of daemonic incursions in 8e.

>>49356809
If rich peoples house was surrounded by orks and it was the Hobo-king willing to bring his army to fuck up ork shit.

Also if the elves and their half-elf puppet royals end up as rulers of the largest human nation they get a fuck huge army to die in their place and result in less elven blood being spilt.

>>49356837
Even so, there's many other things to give that isn't the spiritual heart of your people. High Elves care deeply about the Everqueen, to the point where it's a moral shattering blow if she's dead. They founded the Colleges of Magic, that's a great gift that keeps on giving.

>>49356809
>I'd rather not become an amoral predator, forever in fear of death and subject to the will and whims of Nagash. More often than not vampires are evil dicks.
>>I'd rather not become an amoral predator,

Are you a vegetarian? At least vampires don't have to kill their prey to keep on going.

>forever in fear of death

So business as usual for anything with a pulse.

>More often than not vampires are evil dicks.

Fair enough. Live long enough and your morality is bound to alter.

>>49356816
Can you give a solid reason why a vampire couldn't worship the forces of Chaos?

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>>49356793
>>49356787
>Mindless undead and few individuals whose minds and souls are crushed by the oppressive iron will of Nagash
>Ever fearing Chaos

Nagash would have saved and redeemed the world for all time.

Sigmar tore the world from Nagash and handed it to Archaon to dash it down.

>>49356825
Decanonized.

>>49356831
Drachenfels drinks from all cups and subordinates himself to no one. Also, he's not a vampire.

>>49356825
>WFRP

Wait, are you talking about Kemmler and Krell?

Also
>Kemmler and Krell would make a hell of a straightman/funnyman duo.

>>49356861
I eat meat but I don't look sentient beings in the eye and tell them how I'm going to skin their children alive and then feast on them. Vampires don't master death, they cringe in fear of it.

Vampires use necromancy which is basically anathema to Chaos. A dead world can't generate the emotions needed for warp entities to exist.

>>49356880
>Decanonized

That's like your opinion. There is no fluff old or new that says that vampires cannot fall to Chaos. In fact, there are plenty examples of them falling in WHFB lore.

>>49356866
>Ever fearing Chaos
If chaos can turn rock into living beast and bring daemons from the aether into reality, I'm sure they can work with a corpse.

>>49356882
>Wait, are you talking about Kemmler and Krell?

Nah.

A small excerpt has a Necromancer calling upon the Gods of Chaos to bring back the soul of the vampire and give him form once gain.

>>49356894
All of your evidence is from lore so old rebellious dwarfs became wizards or from ET (Age of Sigmar) fluff.

Chaos is for losers and offers nothing a patient vampire can't just take for themselves.

>>49356883
>I eat meat but I don't look sentient beings in the eye and tell them how I'm going to skin their children alive and then feast on them. Vampires don't master death, they cringe in fear of it.

Then don't? There are plenty of vampires that make a habit of not killing their food and not being a psychopath about it. It's basically the Lamian's schtick. Genevieve comes to mind.

>Vampires use necromancy which is basically anathema to Chaos. A dead world can't generate the emotions needed for warp entities to exist.

If Vampires have emotion - and our bloodthirsty friends certainly seem to suggest they experience rage and lust - then there is emotion for Chaos to exist on.

>>49356905
That sounds a lot like a comic they released as well. Does the vampire eat the Necromancer after?

>>49356913
>Chaos is for losers and offers nothing a patient vampire can't just take for themselves.

Except faith? Sometimes people just like believing in something greater than them. It's not like they'd all do it, but it's not impossible for it to occur.

>All of your evidence is from lore so old rebellious dwarfs became wizards or from ET (Age of Sigmar) fluff.

Chaos Dwarfs? Are you talking about Chaos Dwarfs? They don't get a lot of love, but they're a constant in the setting, dude-bro.

>>49356920
Like I said, the majority of vampires do. Immortality changes a person. Arkhan was bad, then he tried to change, then said 'fuck it' and got even worse after being stuck in death-like consciousness for a hundred years or so.

Not enough. You need entire nations, races to fuel them. It's turning an ocean into a leaky tap. What would be left after Nagash takes over the planet, a dozen or so vampires before Nagash gets bored and blasts a few of them? He doesn't trust them and has absolutely no loyalties to anyone but himself.

>>49356939
Dwarfs, regular dwarfs, used to have wizards. Don't be dense.

>>49356939
>That sounds a lot like a comic they released as well. Does the vampire eat the Necromancer after?

I know that comic. It as neat.

Nah, it was a different thing.

File: Drachenfels_por_Martin_McKenna.jpg (28KB, 464x637px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 464x637px

>>49356866
>Nagash.
>Anything but puny mortal to Constant Drachenfels the Great Enchanter

You know, the more I look at WHFB, the more I see that the greater scope villains just make stuff bland.
Vampires and TK are cool. Nagash is boring.
Random rampaging chaos hordes are cool. Chaos leading a full-on unified invasion and being a single force is boring.

Nagash should never come back. Chaos Gods should never care about the world enough to unite their followers.

>>49356913
>Chaos is for losers and offers nothing a patient vampire can't just take for themselves.

It doesn't have to offer anything. Chaos corruption is a thing.

And you haven't provided anything that says that they cannot be corrupted.

>>49356955
True. And Dwarfs, regular Dwarfs, still can be. Why do you think they have so much hate for Chaos Dwarfs?

Actually, this raises a question:

Are Tzeentchian Sorcerers actually Clerics?

>>49356964
>muhnigger.rar

Anyone have a random encounter table for travelling in the empire for 2nd ed? Similar to the ones found in the Karak Azgal book.

>>49356972
Nagash is cool, go back to bed Alcadizzar.

Unifying Chaos hordes isn't a bad thing, it creates more chaos with all the death and destruction and inevitable disintegration of said hordes. Silly mortals keep believing the gods when they say victory is the goal.

>>49356991
They're not supposed to be wizards. That's the point. They USED to have wizards, like regular spell casting wizards that walked among them and were 'normal'. It was later changed to Runesmiths and any dwarf dabbling in magic eventually turns to stone.

>>49356972
I agree with both points, to an extent. I think Chaos and Nagash are great villains - if they'd rolled back the scale a little. GW paints both of them as world level, where-as all the other factions in the setting are pretty much county-scale, if you follow.

Either they should have downplayed them a little, or the big fight should have been Nagash Vs. Chaos without anyone else interfering as they destroyed each other.

>>49356939
>Except faith?

Like he said: Chaos is for losers.

>>49357024
no. Vampires squabbling, TK squabbling and necromancers running amok is interesting.
Nagash just unifies them and it kills both undead factions.

>>49357032
only if you make Nagash not strong enough to control and unite all undead factions... but then it's not same Nagash, right? it becomes nothing more than a name.

>>49356973
Chaos can't corrupt vampires. Please go wank somewhere else, Belakor.

>>49357061
Nagash doesn't need to be alive, or even running around to do stuff. After coming back the second time he's much more cautious. He knows there are powers that can challenge him, especially since he's missing his hand and crown. He's not nearly as powerful as he was at his peak, and that was also after consuming an ungodly amount of warpstone.

>>49357024
>They're not supposed to be wizards. That's the point. They USED to have wizards, like regular spell casting wizards that walked among them and were 'normal'.

The setting also used to have half-orcs too. Mind you, I don't think there's actually anything in the setting stopping dwarfs from being wizards now. It's just not in their culture to do so, and it potentially holds great risk. But I don't think there's any reason a expatriate dwarf couldn't learn magic from an Imperial Wizard.

Please note, although Chaos Dwarf sorcerers turn to stone with magic use, that may also be a result of Chaos influence.

Don't Dwarf heroes get infused with Magic in the End Times and come out fine?

>>49357067
>Chaos can't corrupt vampires.

Prove it.

Harkon and his Blood Knights were corrupted, Isabella too.

>>49356964
>killed by a fat actor with a tool hammer

>>49357074
can he be brought back without his crown and hand?


>>49357078
ET

>>49357078
That's all ET lore - not canon.

>>49357076
>Don't Dwarf heroes get infused with Magic in the End Times and come out fine?

Thorgim was infused with the Wind of Metal but was too stubborn to let it alter him so it left him for Gelt.

The Slayer King was infused with the Wind of Fire and it was a perfect fit.

>>49357081
He lost his powers after Sigmar smacked him.

>>49357076
Nope, it's called the Curse of Stone. The Old Ones created the dwarfs with anti-magic in mind, using it in a safer form known as runes. Dwarfs are biologically rigged to turn to stone if they tap into the winds of magic like a regular wizard does.

>>49357090
He can be and has already. He's just much weaker without them.

>>49357055
>Like he said: Chaos is for losers.
>fedoratip.jpeg

>>49357061
>but then it's not same Nagash, right? it becomes nothing more than a name.

You get that Nagash actually has a developed character, right? There's a whole series on him working up to the ability to do unite it. The character is still the same even if you roll back his power level. That's like saying if you made Superman mortal, he wouldn't still be the same person.

>>49357067
Dwarf-anon here, seriously though where does this argument come from?

>>49357102
>>49357090
>not canon.

You guys don't get to decide what's canon. You are not the writers of the setting or the devs. Also you have yet to provide proof that vampires cannot be corrupted. Stop dodging and provide.

>>49357121
>>>/AoS General/

>>49357133
I will take that as you conceding. You dodged a question too many times.

>>49357116
>he wouldn't still be the same person
he would, technically. but what would be THE POINT in him being the same person. Clark Kent/Kal-El only has a reason to exist (in meta sense) if he's a) Superman b) will become Superman c) has been Superman and gonna become him again

otherwise there's zero reason for that mundane person to be Kal-El

same with Nagash. his narrative role is to be greatest Necromancer and unite all the Undead. if he's not gonna achieve it, there's no narrative reason for a [necromancer_character_K55] be Nagash, unless you want a name-drop.

>>49357148
>>>/AoS General/

>>49357081
To be fair though, it was one fat actor being driven by Sigmar killing another fat actor driven by Drachenfels.

The two of them basically just possessed out a play of themselves.

>>49357090
>>49357102

Question for people who think Vampires are uncorruptable by chaos - What do you think would happen if a Chaos Worshipper/mutant/chosen got turned by a Vampire?

>>49357113
>Dwarfs are biologically rigged to turn to stone if they tap into the winds of magic like a regular wizard does.

But they can use magic, then? It's just a short-term thing?

>>49357182
he wouldn't be turned, I guess. he'd likely die from blood loss or something, and vampire would quite likely suffer feedback, much the same way Vlad got poisoned by Glottkin blood in ET.

>>49357148
So your argument that Vampires can't be corrupted by Chaos is because the Chaos corruption occurs in an End Times novel? And you reject that canon?

Alright then, is there anything PRE-End Times that confirms or rejects the supposition?

>>49357165
Superman's character is as much about his humanity and his idealism as it is about his power. Same thing with Nagash. But replace humanity and idealism with megalomania and power lust.

>>49357182
Very few can, a genetic defect as the Old Ones weren't perfect in their science. Must be because they were pressed for time and abandoned race projects like Kickstarters. Most dwarf sorcerers are Chaos Dwarfs, given gifts by Hashut and other daemons. Only one dawi that I can recall was turned to stone, Ranuld Silverthumb, High Runelord of Karaz-a-Karak who tried to revive the gronti-duraz, massive stone golems, to life without help. All the magic coursing through him by using the Anvils of Doom turned him into a stone statue.

>>49357202
there's a hundred power-lusty megalomaniacs in WHFB who don't have as large narrative role as Nagash does, and so including them instead doesn't reduce them to a name drop.

>>49357201
>he wouldn't be turned, I guess.
>Vlad got poisoned by Glottkin blood in ET.

I'm going to assume you're not the same anon saying ET doesn't count as evidence.

What reason would he be unable to turn them? I'll accept that Glottkin blood is a good example, as the blood is clearly toxic. But that seems like a specific Nurgle affliction. What about other not-such-blessed Chaos worshippers? Or just a generic cultist who worships Chaos and wants to live forever to do it?

This would make an interesting story about a Khorne Worshipper who tricks a Blood Dragon into siring him so he can shed blood for Khorne for all eternity, only to be told that Khorne rejects the undead for...reasons.

>>49357201
>Vlad got poisoned by Glottkin blood in ET.

Vlad didn't turn try to turn Glotkin into a vampire. He stabbed him with Blooddrinker and Blooddrinker drained Otto's nurglite bilely blood to Vlad's body.

Chaos worshippers have been shown to be turned to Undead by various means. Krell being an example.

>>49357182
>What do you think would happen if a Chaos Worshipper/mutant/chosen got turned by a Vampire?

I question if it's possible. Would the elixir still work on someone who has been changed by Chaos?

Worth pointing out that vampires don't actually have souls. They're destroyed in the process. t. Night's Dark Masters. I can't see a soulless creature being of any worth to Chaos.

>>49357215
I might look up the rules for turning to stone for Chaos Dwarf characters in WFRP. It'd make a great concept for a Dwarf Wizard.

>>49357225
So in your estimation any version of a character that isn't the stock-standard version of a character is just a name-drop?

So watching Superman whilst still growing up in Smallville is just a name drop? Or Year One of Batman, before he got into his role and really figure out what he was doing was just a namedrop? Because you could have put anyone else in there place and gotten the same results with a different name?

>>49357202
>Alright then, is there anything PRE-End Times that confirms or rejects the supposition?

I think you replied to the wrong person.

There is nothing that says that Vampires cannot be corrupted by Chaos in Pre-ET WHFB. In fact, there is a case of a vampire being breathed back to life by the whim of the Chaos Gods in WHRP.

>>49357252
>Worth pointing out that vampires don't actually have souls.

What? Vlad, Mannfred, and Isbella were said to have souls. They are dragged from the aether and given flesh again.

>>49357260
It's in Tome of Corruption. For every point of Magic a Chaos Dwarf has he loses 1 Movement. If he gets to 0 he dies and becomes a statue. Most sorcerers try to get around this with steam powered moving contraptions, dark pacts or spells to keep themselves from completely turning to stone.

Also, the road to Zharr Naggrund is lined with Chaos Dwarf sorcerers who have fallen completely to the curse.

>>49357252
>They're destroyed in the process. t. Night's Dark Masters. I can't see a soulless creature being of any worth to Chaos.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Why would Chaos care if a worshipper didn't have a soul? Sure, they might not get any benefit from harvesting them, but it doesn't mean they can't utilise a useful meat-sack.

>Would the elixir still work on someone who has been changed by Chaos?

No reason to assume it wouldn't. We've seen that it can work across different species, with at least one canonical Dwarf Vampire in the setting. No reason to then assume that it couldn't affect someone who was Chaos-Touched - barring the circumstance that the Chaos mutations or gifts provided a specific protection from it, like Glottkins blood.

>>49357279
In the ET.

>>49357285

So I just need to roll up a Dwarf with 4 Movement and get Fleet of Foot.

Excellent. The party Ogre can carry me on his back in a howdah.

FEAR MASTER-BLASTER.

>>49357294
>>Why would Chaos care if a worshipper didn't have a soul?

Nothing to bargain with or gain.

>>49357327
Essentially, or craft some kind of prosthetic legs for yourself.

>>49357305
In WHFB as well, you dumb bastard. Vampires still retain their souls.

>>49357294
>Why would Chaos care if a worshipper didn't have a soul? Sure, they might not get any benefit from harvesting them, but it doesn't mean they can't utilise a useful meat-sack.

They're unlikely to expend the effort, since such a being is basically a mouthful of ashes and sawdust. They might use them as a weapon, but they don't have much to offer vampires, who are egotistical in the extreme besides.

There's a proven record of sufficiently willful beings 'stealing fire from the gods,' as it were. In old lore, that was Drachenfels. In middle lore, Nagash is a good example of that. Even the ET, with all its inconsistencies and CHAOS R BEST wankshite has this in Settra, who takes Chaos power and laughs in the face of their will.

>>49357227
oh, I am one of those anons, I just used the first example that was at hand. should've used something outside WHFB to be clearer, shouldn't I?

as to why not? chaos corruption rejects vampiric corruption, for instance? why cannot same person be corrupted by both Tzeentch and Khorne, for instance? Undeath is just a peculiar form of corruption.

We know all Winds alter the minds of those who channel them, and Dark Magic drives even elves insane(-ish). Former cultist would find his mind warped into morbidity, egoism and other vampiric emotions, just like Fire magic makes Bright Wizards rash and short-tempered. He wouldn't have the CAPACITY to believe in Chaos.

>>49357238
i was referring to the book where Vlad licked the blade like an idiot

>>49357260
no, but the character must fulfill his narrative purpose.
and please, read my comments above. i already mentioned that character that is in process of achieving his narrative purpose is ok.
Bruce Wayne, who lives in Gotham, whose parents died of old age and who lived a nice and easy life of billionaire playboy philanthropist never once having to fight has no business being called "Bruce Wayne, who lives in Gotham" - unless he just appears in Batman's dreams, or is some sort of alternate universe character that crosses paths with DC universe character.

>>49357279
you can still cast Soul Leech on them, so yes, they have souls.

>>49357351
>Settra, who takes Chaos power and laughs in the face of their will.

No, he didn't. Settra disappeared after the Chaos Gods ressed him. We don't know what happened to him or if he took their power or not

>>49357340
>Nothing to bargain with or gain.

Other than another footsoldier willing to serve their purposes.

>>49357351
>They might use them as a weapon, but they don't have much to offer vampires

This is probably a better argument.

I'm liking the idea of the scorned Khornate Vampire more and more now.

>Khorne does not care from whence the blood flows.
>But Khorne does not share, parasite.

>>49357294
>No reason to assume it wouldn't. We've seen that it can work across different species, with at least one canonical Dwarf Vampire in the setting.

Non-human vampires were a thing before vampire lore was codified. Night's Dark Masters specifies that there are no known non-human vampires now or ever. Even the ET retconned it's single elf vampire.

>>49357369
Wrong.

>>49357391
The gods want something in return. It's like putting down a deposit. If I'm a daemon and I make a pact with a guy I can't control, I'm doing it wrong.

>>49357391
>>Khorne does not care from whence the blood flows.
>>But Khorne does not share, parasite.


This is actually canonically why Khorne hates them. Tzeentch hates them for being the embodiment of stasis. Slaanesh hates them for being boring. Nurgle hates them for BTFOing all his plagues.

>>49357365
>Download Night's Dark Masters to serach for the vampire soul thing.
>Turns out the book actually just has many in-verse theories about vampire souls
>The scholars don't knows for certain what happens to the vamps souls
>Priests say they are banished to borders of Morr's real, and the vampires ay that it didn't go anywhere

>“If I ever had such a thing as a soul or an essence, I did not feel it leave me, nor do I sense its absence now. Indeed, if I am without life, I do not sense that either. And yet my senses are alive and overcome with sensation, as if for all my life until now I had but slumbered in a dark cave and only this day emerged into the light of the world. My eyes are now open and my spirit at last free. They call this madness, but I say it is the only truth.”

- Doktor Veerhafen of Nuln

Explain to me why did this anon take one theory from all the theories in the book as right despite the fact that the guys who wrote it down in-verse have no idea about the progress of the Blood Kiss>>49357252

Dude ignored what the vampires themselves wrote down about their experience. Was this intentional spreading o misinformation? Was that anon a troll?

>>49357410
Right. Lord of the End Times is not canonical. In End Times Archaon, Settra did not appear to confront Nagash and tell him what happened with the Chaos Gods.

>>49357441
>This is actually canonically why Khorne hates them. Tzeentch hates them for being the embodiment of stasis. Slaanesh hates them for being boring. Nurgle hates them for BTFOing all his plagues.

Don't say canonical when you cannot even cite the fluff it's allegedly wrong.

>>49357475
>>>/AoS General/

>>49357396
>Even the ET retconned it's single elf vampire.

It didn't retconned it. It ws a mistake. Josh Reynolds made a colossal mistake because he didn't bother reading the source material due to him being too lazy.

And IIRC, Konrad turned a Halfling into a vampire.

>>49357446
hm, I'll have to read that, 'cos it apparently provides fluff in the only good way - as unconfirmed in-universe rumours and theories. rock-hard "word of god" canon is among the worst things a universe can have.

>>49357475
It's fitting with their personalities. It's similar with elves, only Slaanesh has anything to offer them. Vampires just don't need Chaos for anything.

>>49357487
Stop shitposting and cite where in WHFb fluff does it give reasons why the Chaos Gods hate vampires.

>>49357446
Obviously the doc is not a good source of info. No one can feel their soul, and vampires ARE undead despite his apparent disagreement.

It's possible that vamp souls are in some weird limbo beyond Morr's reach, but that doesn't put them in the reach of the Four, either.

>>49357391
but why would Khorne care in what direction does the blood flow? out of the wound or into a stomach, it's still blood flowing, no?

>>49357517
Why would Khorne care about magic? He does. Not everything they do makes sense.

>>49357502
>Vampires just don't need Chaos for anything.

Except more power and a way to return if they are destroyed.

And for love of god you can have an opinion of your own about stuff but don't pass it off as "canonical".

>>49357500
No, it provides fluff the bad way because that anon couldn't tell that the "fluff" he was citing was in-verse fluff from unreliable source. If I didn't bother to look it up, then you guys would be still thing that vampirs had no souls.

Lore books should present straight up facts because players are too short memories and dumb for anything else, it seems.

>>49357537
>Except more power and a way to return if they are destroyed.

They already have no power cap and the ones with great enough willpower can be returned from destruction, Chaos 100% unnecessary.

>>49357396
>Night's Dark Masters specifies that there are no known non-human vampires now or ever

Night's Dark Masters specifically states that it's not impossible.

And the non-human vampire comes from one of the better sources of vampire lore - the Genevieve series.

>>49357446
Additionally, Nights Dark Masters also has an in-universe suggestion (from the Necrachs, no less) that the process of vampirification turns them into a wellspring of True Dhar - raw, chaotic, corrupting magic.

>>49357502
>Vampires just don't need Chaos for anything.

If Drachenfels could find the Chaos Gods amusing enough to deal with, I'm sure Vampires could too.

But yeah, depends on the Vampire.

>>49357537
I'm not the same guy, but I do know a fair bit about the setting. Vampires can attain power on their own and already have a way of returning from 'true death'. Vlad only died forever because the Grand Theoginist's blood mixed with his when he fell from Altdorf's ramparts. Normally all you need is the vampire's ashes for a ritual to bring him back.

>>49357537
nah, they shouldn't provide a MIX of those. it should all be JUST theories and rumours. no doylist info at all. only watsonian. like TES.

>>49357515
>Obviously the doc is not a good source of info

Vampires are skilled at summoning spirits and manipulating souls. They would know about souls more than the average person. If they said they had a soul, then they do have a soul.

>>49357546
>and the ones with great enough willpower can be returned from destruction,

And I bet the ones with great enough willpower wouldn't be turning to Chaos. But what about the ones who are weak?

>>49357546
Not all vampires reached high levels and plenty of them can get desperate enough to make deals with the Chaos Gods.

In fact, the TW has a talent option for vampires where you can make deals with the Chaos Gods for bonus magical stats.

>>49357563
Is there a TES roleplaying game (pen and paper, let me clarify)? Cause as much as I love TES lore, I think if they came out with one you'd start finding out hard facts.

>>49357554
>And the non-human vampire comes from one of the better sources of vampire lore - the Genevieve series.

You mean the series with vampires being an oppressed minority that dindu nuffin and a church of Morr that ignores undead besides fanatics? Jog on.

>>49357559
>Normally all you need is the vampire's ashes for a ritual to bring him back.

And if the ashes were lost. The Chaos Gods are ready to here your pleas.

>>49357568
He doesn't think he had a soul even BEFORE becoming a vampire.

>>49357609
why would they? RPG lore can still be watsonyan and everything left to the DM's discretion

>>49357615
I sincerely doubt anyone is that desperate to bring their master back. Even if they were, the vampire would probably be pretty pissed if he were indebted to some warp entities because of his servants.

>>49357612
>You mean the series with vampires being an oppressed minority that dindu nuffin and a church of Morr that ignores undead besides fanatics? Jog on.

Also a series that keeps getting printed, released and supported and the start point of most of the Drachenfels lore we've got.

Also, the Ulrika series which takes some inspiration from the Genevieve series.

>>49357648
Ulrika has no non-human vampires.

>>49357648
>Also a series that keeps getting printed, released and supported

Like Ian Watson's Inquisition Wars and Space Marine?

yes, yes, yes.

But how do we get Karl Franz together with naieth?

>>49357642
>RPG lore can still be watsonyan and everything left to the DM's discretion

They can, but RPGs have a tendency towards Doylist.

>>49357663
>Space Marine?
That keeps getting re-printed? I thought that went out years ago?

>>49357645
>I sincerely doubt anyone is that desperate to bring their master back. Even if they were, the vampire would probably be pretty pissed if he were indebted to some warp entities because of his servants.

People have turned to Chaos for less.

>>49357691
and that is bad.


>>49357683
who the fuck is Naieth and why should I care about her?

Credit where it's due, gramma lolipire was a riot and Beasts in Velvet was good (though note, Genevieve is barely in that one).

>>49357554
>Night's Dark Masters specifically states that it's not impossible.

Interestingly it also states that Vampires are really snubby to non-humans. It doesn't state if non-human vampires would also be snubby to non-humans, or just non-their race.

>>49357754

Fucking Beasts of Velvet. That shit through my Warhammer Timeline for a fucking loop. Goddamn Cathayan Tzeentch Mutant piece of shit and his Gotrek at Praag name drop.

>>49357772

How the fuck does my voice to text know Cathayan, Tzeentch and Gotrek but can't figure out I meant threw and not through?

>>49357732
Doesn't mean it's a good idea. A vampire could care less what cattle make deals for.

>>49357554
>Night's Dark Masters specifically states that it's not impossible.

More, it says IF it's possible, there's no record. Probably better for the world if not, because the idea of, say, a skaven vampire is pretty horrifying.

>>49357683
Naieth had vision of End Times, she invites Karl into Athel Loren after battle of Weiss and tells him that only way to preserve humanity is to sire children, years later she magically protects her infants and they survive destruction of old world.

>>49357752
She is chief oracle of wood elves.

>>49357799
>skaven vampire is pretty horrifying.

AND WE HAVE COME FULL CIRCLE.

FEAR THE RAT OF THE NIGHT, MANTHING.

>>49357833
VAMPIRIC Hell Pit Obamination!

File: Mannfred von Carstein.jpg (477KB, 750x688px) Image search: [Google]

477KB, 750x688px

You all forgot about canon vampire dwarf.

>>49357857

>Aren't you a little short for a vampire lord?

>>49357857
Yes yes, and we can go cite ancient lore about half orcs too if we want.

File: 1464408122333.gif (895KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

895KB, 640x480px

>>49357857
>the filename

>>49357912
The Dwarf Vamp. comes from Genevieve Undead, released in 2002.

Sure, it's 14 years old, but it's not Half-Orcs old.

File: sweating.gif (272KB, 301x301px) Image search: [Google]

272KB, 301x301px

>>49357816
>karl and naieth having missionary sex for the sole purpose of procreation

>>49357978
Genevieve's lore rape has been discussed.

>>49355905
The story in 6th ed army book is more or less KF being saved by his bling and marginally by his skills until Sigmar comes to save him. I don't remember him being a badass in that fight.

>>49357998
>discussed
>mentioned once by >>49357612 in a derogatory fashion and never brought up again.

Yep, you're a fa/tg/uy.

>>49357076
>Don't Dwarf heroes get infused with Magic in the End Times and come out fine?
Yes, and it's also one of the first things brought up whenever somebody defends the End Times, that's how lore-breaking it is

>>49357857
Aren't you a little too short for a dawi?

>>49358070
>vampires are oppressed innocents
>wrong name for Karl Franz's house
>Luitpold is described as being the future heir despite the Emperor being an elected position
>mutants are a new phenomenon and not yet oppressed
>dwarf vampire
>dwarfs in general are treated like shit by everyone, even Imperials; one even mutates uncontrollably in Drachenfels despite vampires being resistant to mutation
>no bloodlines
>vampires get weaker and more dead over time
>strigoi described as 'more dead' vampires
>vampires have a publicly known trendy bar in Altdorf
>skaven are openly known about and discussed freely

I mean, that's just off the top of my head.

>>49358270
>>Did you hear about that vampire run tavern down Brewer's Alley?
>>Yeah, I heard it sucks!
>>HAHAHAHA
These two were later shot and burned for having terrible taste in jokes.

>>49358126
Doesn't seem that big a deal. Don't know what is going on there, but it sounds like a once-off sort of deal.

>>49358270
>vampires are oppressed innocents
No, it's just implied not all vampires are cunts.
>wrong name for Karl Franz's house
Fair enough. But I've seen maps in GW 7ed that label countries wrong, so shit happens.
>Luitpold is described as being the future heir despite the Emperor being an elected position
True, but I suspect if you look closer they are making that statement because it's assumed they would be voting for Luitpold. The Elector Counts are an elected position too, but shit tends to stay in families.
>mutants are a new phenomenon and not yet oppressed
What? They are heavily oppressed in the book and one character suicides rather than living with the stigma of people knowing he's a mutant.
>dwarf vampire
So? How is this lore breaking?
>dwarfs in general are treated like shit by everyone, even Imperials; one even mutates uncontrollably in Drachenfels despite vampires being resistant to mutation
I'll assume you mean a dwarf mutates. 1. Dwarfs are resistant, not immune. 2. Fair enough on dwarfs being treated like shit. It's out of character.
>no bloodlines
No mentioned bloodlines - Genevieve is a Lamian, IIRC. They don't really talk about it.
>vampires get weaker and more dead over time
Depends on the bloodline, maybe? The issue here is that Vampires are described as being more 'who knows what rules apply' rather than a set of strict bloodlines with specific rules.
>strigoi described as 'more dead' vampires
Not sure about this one, as the novel came out before Strigoi were even a thing.
>vampires have a publicly known trendy bar in Altdorf
>skaven are openly known about and discussed freely
And can't recall these two. The second one could be given a pass if it's the nobles that are talking about it - if it's the peasantry less so. The first one...yeah, no - fair play there. Altdorf tends to be a bit more tolerant than not, but...

>>49358356
>No mentioned bloodlines - Genevieve is a Lamian, IIRC. They don't really talk about it.

They mention Lahmia (the country), not the bloodline.

>>49355466
May have a bit incorrect English names but:
Hedge mage -> witch -> apprentice wizard -> standard mage progression
Could be solid gold, cause as witch you get witchcraft talent that allows you to learn any spell up to 15 CN.
Drawback is that you have to use 1 chaos dice as long as you don't have arcane language (magic), but you get this as apprentice wizard, so you can learn best "lesser" spells from any tradition, no strings attached. And there are many great spells with low CN.

>manlings can't safely use more than 1 wind of magic
in your face Teclis,

>>49358411
Fair enough but:
>They mention England (the country), not the ethnicity.

Also, external to Drachnfels I believe Gene is canonically a Lahmian.

>>49358356
>What? They are heavily oppressed in the book and one character suicides rather than living with the stigma of people knowing he's a mutant.

There is an order of magnitude of difference between the 'burn on sight, thing of evil' oppression in proper canon and the 'oh god, how hideous' oppression in Genevieve. Sierck's dude kills himself because he is mutating faster and starting to hear voices, and he's afraid hell become a monster. Even his torture is treated as a heinous, illegal deed. Sierck goes on to name his playhouse after him.

>>49358462
>>Hedge Wizard
>>safe
>>laughingelfgirls.png

Borrowing a spell from another lore is nothing.

>>49358481
Because Sierck was Detlef's friend, you shitlord. It wasn't some nameless, faceless mutant. It was something that was afflicting a close friend that he loved dearly. And the sergeant who beats the shit out of him certainly had a 'BURN THE MUTANT' mindset.

The reason Detlef and co. looked down on it was because it happened to a friend.

Shit man, even Gotrek and Felix covered the notion of friends turning to mutants and it's treatment in the Empire. Fuck, they had a play about it.

>>49358481
>the 'burn on sight, thing of evil' oppression in proper canon

WFB =/= 40k.

>>49358475
She is, but it's obvious that they're not talking about bloodlines there.

>>49358575
Did you even read the book? Sierck is Detlef's last name. He is not the only one angry at the treatment.

>>49358597
Mutants will often turn to Chaos for answers, revenge, etc, so most people make it a policy to shoot first and ask questions later when it comes to muties. Even if they're not malevolent, they can infect others. A Witch Hunter killed the mother of a mutant for harbouring him. The mutant in question accidentally got scratched by a thorn bush and his blood mingled with that of a Gor. It can be that easy, and if it's that easy then you can't really blame someone for choosing fire over friendship.

>>49358597
It's canon in both. People hide mutations, cover for their friends, but the general attitude is that a mutant is a spiritually evil person whose wickets manifests physically (there is a similar attitude towards disease). With hunters of the Temple itself prescribe burning as the only solution. People fear mutants, either because they're seen as evil or they fear being caught in the splash of a purge. There are no mutant rights, torturing one isn't illegal, and no one dares advocate openly for them.

>>49358575
>Shit man, even Gotrek and Felix covered the notion of friends turning to mutants and it's treatment in the Empire. Fuck, they had a play about it.

Strange Flower, which Felix found disturbing above all else.

Normie here, that is a really really really really really shitty map

>>49358693
Better than SoIaF one.

>>49358735
That's damning with very faint praise.

Only map I have ever seen that isn't is the Sword of Truth one.

Forgotten realms comes close.

>>49358735
It's not DESU. At least the asoiaf (I assume thats what you meant) map isn't as obviously real world as the one in the OP. I'm not sure if it's meant to be taken serious or not, but at least it'd be acceptable if it was satire.

>Araby
>Bretony
>Nippon
>Albion
>Great wall
>Persian Gulf
>Norska, literally "norwegian" in most scandinavian languages.

>>49358819
The same way it has Christopher Columbus and Leonardo Da Vinci, Warhammer world always meant to be alternative Earth as Hyborea and Middle-Earth.

>>49358874
I'm pretty sure Hyborea was really, really ancient Earth rather than a parallel. Still, people tend to forget that the Warhammer world is basically a petri dish cooked up by the Old Ones for some vague anti-Chaos plan.

>>49358483
>>Hedge Wizard
>>safe
That is why you learn arcane language (magic) anon, then it is as safe as elf magic.

Plus you got petty magic(hedge) talent.
You may laugh at elven high magic when they are soaked in rain.
High Magic don't sound so cool when you are wet and cold and some monkey have access to "protection from rain" and don't give a fuck.
And you can't learn it as it is not at your spell list.

>Borrowing a spell from another lore is nothing
Casting fireball, getting out by wings on azyr and banishing demon for the lulz cause you can.
Up to 15 there are some of best spells in a book it. Ability to learn them is great for anyone with a bit of creativity.

>>49358918
To even learn High Magic, elves have to first master ALL eight lores, Fire being the first. Anything you can do they can do better. Even the Slann can't use High Magic, which as far as WFRP is concerned is just too powerful to have rules for.

>>49358637
I meant Van Brueghl. And the angry people are friends and co-workers.

>>49358665
And there are mutant brothels in the empire, not to mention the night market.

Warhammer isn't as grimderp as 40k.

>>49358683
>Strange Flower, which Felix found disturbing above all else.

True. Disturbing. Not 'burn at the stake'.

>>49358819
Given the thought behind most of the old-school Warhammer creations, there was probably a heavy dose of satire in the mix when making the setting.

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>>49358356
>The Elector Counts are an elected position too

Elector Count = hereditary
Emperor = elected from the elector counts

>>49358911

An interesting point - the Warhammer world was originally a lot colder than it is now, and according to WFRP lore it already had humans, dwarfs and elves on it before the Old Ones came.

>>49360146
I reckon he must have been thinking of Oswald having his electorate stripped from him and given to a rival house. It happens, but usually that shit is bloodline.

>>49358952
>citation needed
I remember something similar so probably you are right, but:
Wizard Lord profession states that elf of this level is ready to go to Hoeth tower in order to learn high magic.
Also I am bad at WHFB but I remember that elf mage chooses to use high magic or one specific lore, and only slann can use spells from different lores at same time?

Also by WHFRP 2ed elfs don't have access to petty magic(hedge) so no protection from rain, for them. Not totally serious but still...

Also I can image some human wizard trolling elven one with very simple and useful spell that elves never had idea to create

>>49355715
What could you really have done with Cathay that wasn't being done with other factions?

Large stone soldiers? Tomb Kings had that. Disciplined spearmen? Also Tomb Kings, or the Empire. Good cavalry? Most factions already have that to some degree.

At best you'd have some vaguely oriental rockets or something.

>>49358952
Um, Slann can use High Magic, it's right there in the army book.

On the topic of Slann, do you think some of the older dragons might be familiar with some of the Slann? Probably not on a 'tea and biscuits' level, but at least enough to nod as they walk past in the street, if either were ever inclined to walk anywhere.

>>49358952
Slann were the first ones to use high magic, they taught it to the elves

>>49360235
In the Tyrion and Teclis novels, Teclis cast a spell around him that protected him from the rain, humidity and Mosquitos. Elves are more than capable of minor level spells

>>49360386
Cathay is basically empire+tomb kings with a little bit of high elf thrown in there

>>49360408
Hol up!

Do you remeber how dragons used to rule the world, until the old ones came? doubt they would greet kindly any Slann

>>49361845
Exactly, which doesn't really make it all that interesting to me. I'd rather GW add some more meat to the bones of Bretonnia, or maybe to the Dark Elves.

>>49354640
Anybody have some good empire knight art? I'm making some homebrew whq cards and I'd like to make some knights from different orders

>>49361998
I Remeber reading somewhere that thats why GW never bothered to flesh out the other human armies. There's only so much you can do with them before they just start being mix and matches of other factions, especially the existing human ones. Nippon is basically Bretonnia but with ranged weapons for their Knights, ind is basically empire humans plus chaos daemons and monsters, kislev is practically the empire with emphasis on different troops, and we've already gone over cathay. They could be interesting from a fluff perspective, but not really worth devoting army books to.

Speaking of Bretonnia, how would a properly updated and fleshed out 8ed Bretonnia look?

What do you guys use for terrain? Is there a special, cheap product for a throw together thing? I get the hobby is an expensive one, but I'd be fine with little 3d cardboard houses ect.

>>49362427
I dunno what you could do with Bretonnians beyond expanding them. Right now their knights are their one trick pony, with infantry and archers being meh at best.

There's been some good ideas for new units suggested in the past - of course I favor my own idea of peasants who managed to raise and ride hypogriffs, and are considered bandits and sometimes serve in wars to earn their pardon. Use bows or even guns from hippogryph-back, acting as mounted missile troops. And there's been a few other good ideas, like monster-hunter infantry.

>>49362602
you can get some decent results with styrofoam boxes, with some grey paint and any cutting tool, they make for decent stone blocks, use them for whatever you need (fortress, random rocks, bases...)

>>49362427
>8th edition Bretonnia
BIG. ALTAR. TO THE LADY. (or anything equally big)

on a more serious note, warhounds and actual men at arms / squires / generic dudes with not useless armor, or access to more lores of magic

maybe a ballista? or some other siege engine? gorilla warfare peasants with option to ambush? flaming pigs for moral damage?

Does anyone have a complete PDF of 8th Ed. Daemons of Chaos? I wanna read up on papa Nurgle's home, but all the PDFs I have or have found are missing that page.

>>49363037
>gorilla warfare peasants

Wait, there are intelligent gorillas living as peasants in Bretonnia? What the fuck? When did this happen?

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>>49358952
>Anything you can do they can do better
Suddenly Nagash...

>>49363037
What lores of magic would you recommend? I'd guess Metal would be a good way to help explain why Empire guns and tanks aren't defeating the Brets.

I like Nurgle. And I like Beastmen. Are there any prominent Nurgle Beastmen in the lore?
And/or anyone got any cool art or minis related to Nurgle Beastmen?

>>49364654
You're gonna be disappointed because there aren't many prominent Beastmen. The most successful and important Beastlord tried to jack a city and got stuck in WW1 tactics with the city's Elector Count and then got rekt from behind by knights returning from the Crusades.

Pestigors look pretty nifty, back when Bestigors came in Chaos God varients. Back before they got new plastic models, though these are out of production you might be able to pick up a few off E-Bay.

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>>49364704
I know this is more of an AoS thing, but I'm not the only one who doesn't like the look of the Tzaangors, right?

>>49364914
Eh, they're certainly not the worst AoS model, which is known for ugly, busy models. The paint job is kinda off.

>>49363869
For Brets?
Bretonia don't have any magic schools.
They could use help from grail madiens they use celestial, life and beast lore

>>49363037
You just gave us the shitty way that GW would do it.

Honestly, Bretonnia just needed rule updates to make them more competitive. No real units needed to be added.

IF I was forced to come up with new units:

-A hero who makes longbowmen better.

>>49365673
I'd go further into the Arthurian lore, honestly. Lots of the Knights of the Round Table had weird and unique powers (I forget, was it Bors that had his power wax and wane along with the sun?) and you can definitely do that. Plus making Bretonnia have more notable characters to field would also be fitting in with the whole ideal of knighthood and chivalry and all that heroic stuff.

>>49365858
An interesting idea would be for Brets to be able to field many cheap, but weaker heroes, all of whom are named and have different powers, in a sort of "sending all of my knightly heroes into the field."

>>49365673
>>49365858
Some spiritual stuff would have been nice too. The 8th edition rulebook teased spectral knights and bowmen, playing on the more magical aspect of Bretonnia. They also should have been the ones to gain monsterous cavalry. Foot knights too.

>>49365984
Monstrous cavalry? Nah. Pegasi and Horses. The Brets are classical knights who don't traffic in ugly-ass battlechickens.

(Seriously, Demigryphs are so fucking dumb looking. It was fine when you thought they were rare mutants -- like Theodore Bruckner having the only one.)

Offtopic, has anyone ever tried playing Warhammer on Tabletop Simulator?

Why is 2e better than 3e?

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I've finally gotten around to uploading the BotE fluff pages to the Endhammer article gallery after constant request to do so. Don't bully if I did it wrong.

>>49361845
>Teclis cast a spell around him that protected him from the rain, humidity and Mosquitos. Elves are more than capable of minor level spells
>Using fucking Teclis as the standard for all Elven Mages.

>>49362427
They should just have come out with an 'Alternative' Army book. One book with mini-lists for all the random factions. No mini releases, unless it was super successful. Could have been nice.

>>49364914
I thought those were supposed to be demons of tzeentch.

>>49366227

Would demigryphs be a cooler concept if they were once regular griffons that had a wing or wing ruined or disabled in battle, so were given to a group of specialized auxiliary knights that gave them a second chance to fight?

>>49366353
3e plays like a boardgame.

It's a bit of a meme at this point, but it's fairly accurate. The dice pool system and how it functions makes the entire system feel like a particularly open ended boardgame. Feels like the ol' Doom board game and it's system.

>>49366565
>implying that was a difficult spell to cast and only high level elf mages can do it
Either way the whole "lol hedge Wizards can do more than elves because WHFRP says so" doesn't really hold water. Elves consider the spells that the colleges use to be beginner level, it's almost guaranteed that a simple protection charm is a pretty easy thing to do.

>>49366595
Demigryphs are fine

But as for bretonnian monstrous cavalry, if say some sort of Beast of the quest Knights, that only certain Grail Knights are able to ride. There was a concept art that had something like this in it.

>>49366595
Yes. This would instantly make it better.

>>49366659
I've never RP'd. IS this good or bad?

>>49366443
I think you did it right. Good job.

>>49366722
>demigryphs
>fine

Pick one.

Monstrous Cav for the 'humans' just comes off as stupid.

>>49366723
>I've never RP'd. IS this good or bad?

It's neither here nor there. Playing a boardgame-y RPG, like 3e WFRP or 4e DnD, can help players make those first steps - but sometimes it can give them the wrong ideas and build bad habits.

>>49366722
>"lol hedge Wizards can do more than elves because WHFRP says so"
Actually, given Elves perceptions and relationship to magic it makes sense that they wouldn't know or perform petty level spells because it's childish and immature. A waste of magic and a demonstration of why you're not responsible enough to use magic in the first place.

>>49366789
Alright, I'll keep that in mind. I'd like to try WFRP, but I don't know how. None of my friends are very nerdy (they know I paint miniatures, they ask sometimes, but they don't seem interested) -- and it's something I don't really wanna bring up while just drinking at the bar.

>>49366789
>fuck, it's raining
>better not cast an extremely simple utility spell to block this shit or the other elves will think I'm childish
>im gonna get my fancy robes soaked instead
There's a huge difference between doing parlor tricks with magic and using common sense with utility spells

>>49366874
Do you have a local game store to go to? A Games Workshop? Anywhere that sells RPGs?

>>49366915
>There's a huge difference between doing parlor tricks with magic and using common sense with utility spells

>Oh shit it's raining
>I better harness the powers of creation for convenience
>Rather than just opening an umbrella
>Or not standing in the rain
>Like a cunt

>>49366789
Elves taught men how to use magic and often use mundane spells as well. The farmers that live near the White Tower never plow their own fields because there are always apprentices eager to show off their skills.

>>49366874
You can look on roll20 for an online WFRP group. That's where I run my games now that me and my friends live all over Canada.

>>49365858
I don't really want more variations of the current units though; I'd like some new shit. Maybe give them the demigryphs at least.

>>49366949
>>sure is dark in this cave
>>better not use powers of creation to create a magical lightsource that follows me around
>>nah I'll just use one of my hands to hold this torch instead

Utility spells are hardly a danger to anyone and are too convenient not to use.

>>49366928
No Games Workshops nearby. There's one game store (mostly actual board games and X-wing), but I feel a little weird waltzing in and saying "Hey, I've never RP'd, and you've probably never played Warhammer, but do you wanna?"

>>49367444
>Utility spells are hardly a danger to anyone and are too convenient not to use.

This is why Elves won't teach humans High Magic.

>>49367447

Ask the store owner if you can put up a 'Group Wanted' sign.

>>49367473
The eight lores have utility spells as well. Fire has one that flash cooks a meal.

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>>49362060

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>>49367512

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>>49367524

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>>49367562

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>>49367578

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>>49367610

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>>49367627

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>>49367640

>>49367512
>>49367524
how can bretonnians even compete lmao.

>>49367703
No gay sallet or armet helms, that's how.

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>>49367667

>>49367703
With ward saves and pegasi