Warhammer Fantasy General

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>>49310271

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>>49310283

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>>49310283
Better version of OP

Anyone else feel the Dark Elves got seriously shafted come 9th age?

So many point increases and nerfs across the board it's hard to see many units as viable.

All I can see for a viable army is raptor knights, a small unit of spears, flanking corsairs, then crossbows, dark riders, bolt throwers, and a wizard. I guess a hydra too.

The cult units seem like trash, tower guard are too expensive and too fragile, monster nerfs make dragonlords trash (maybe a dragon wiz is cool) the Dino chariot is garbage, and we have to pay to give our Spearmen their spears, which sucks.

Please tell me I'm just wrong and missing something here. I want my elves to have variable lists and strategies.

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Repostan' my 9th Age list for Vampire Counts. Hoping for feedback.

++ Vampire Covenant (Standard (1501-3999pts)) (2500pts) ++

+ (No Category) +

Vampiric Bloodlines [Lamia]

+ Lords (580pts) +

Vampire Count (580pts) [Army General]
····Lamia Bloodline (65pts) [Blood Power: Mask of Innocence (25pts)]
····Level 3 Wizard Master (90pts) [Path of Necromancy]
····Magic Items (90pts) [Blade of Strife (45pts), Staff of Gerhard the Black (45pts)]
····Mount (130pts)
········Monstrous Revenant (130pts) [Great Monsterous revenant (10pts), Random Attacks (30pts)]

+ Heroes (640pts) +

Vampire Courtier (370pts) [Magic Items]
····Lamia Bloodline (60pts) [Blood Power: Mesmerizing Gaze (35pts)]
····Mount (235pts)
········Court of the Damned (235pts) [Blood Ties (Lamia) (55pts), Unholy Dominion (40pts)]

Vampire Courtier (270pts)
····Battle Standard Bearer (50pts) [Banner of the Barrow Kings (25pts)]
····Lamia Bloodline (50pts) [Blood Power: Mask of Innocence (25pts)]
····Level 2 Wizard Apprentice (55pts) [Path of Light]
····Magic Items (40pts) [Blade of Red Thirst (40pts)]

+ Core (645pts) +

Ghouls (275pts) [Champion (10pts), 25x Ghoul (250pts), Vanguard (50pts)]

Skeletons (185pts) [Champion (10pts), Musician (10pts), 35x Skeleton (175pts), Spears, Standard Bearer (10pts)]

Skeletons (185pts) [Champion (10pts), Musician (10pts), 35x Skeleton (175pts), Spears, Standard Bearer (10pts)]

+ Special (380pts) +

Barrow Guard (380pts) [30x Barrow Guard (300pts), Champion (10pts), Great Weapon (90pts), Musician (10pts), Standard Bearer (10pts)]

+ Rare (255pts) +

Wraiths (255pts) [Champion (60pts), Flaming Attacks (20pts), 10x Wraith (200pts)]

Does anyone have Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower rulebooks?

Would be very helpful.

>>49310936
Wrong thread, that's an AoS game. Gotta ask in their General.

Pretty sure they have it though.

>>49310881
It looks good, but why Lahmia?

>>49311975
I have a Neferata model, and I like the idea of vampire Illuminati.

I have enough models to make any Bloodline, but may as well go full on my fav.

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So why only twelve Steam Tanks?

>>49311387
Could you link me? I'm a noob and have looked round AoS but just can't find anything. Very frustrating as it must be there.

>>49313681
13 tanks would be too much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxdA6ttjIBk

>>49313681
Eight technically, since four have been lost or destroyed.

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I love Bretonnia, but those guys here are the sickest mofos in the world.

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LOOK AT HIM

>>49313985
We don't have it, sorry.

Its like asking Star Trek guys for Star Wars stuff. The AoS guys have it or nobody does.

I'd help you if I could. Hope you find it.

It's weird reading WFRP 1e and seeing different Elector Count... Or seeing the City-States as ACTUALLY SEPARATE from the Counties.

For example, Middenland is ruled by Grand Duke Leopold von Bildhofen (Magnus's family) out of Carroburg. And it gets an Elector Vote.

INDEPENDENTLY, Middenheim is ruled by Graf Boris Todbringer and he too gets an Elector Vote.

Hey so I'm a guy whose never really gotten into war games but Warhammer looks amazingly fun. Now I know this might not be a great time to join since the End Times, but people mention both the 9th age and Age of Sigmar? What are those and what are the difference?

What are some suggestions either pack wise or what to a guy who wants to get into Warhammer but only knows lore?

>>49313681
The not-Leonardo who made them is dead, no one else completely understands how they work

>>49314538
I do prefer that. It's a little bit more wonky and historical.

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>tfw only come into these threads anymore to collect art for my Warhammer folders

>>49314538
>1e
A lot of that stuff isn't even canon anymore

>>49313681
The empires too retarded to make a steam engine that is both small enough and effecient enough to power it. Somehow they can rebuild the engines but can't make new ones for reasons. The dwarfs flat out refuse to help even though they've had the technology for centuries.

I always thought the 12 steamtanks thing was retarded, they should have at least 50 in various stages of repair given how much they feature in important imperial battles. 8 is barely enough to be considered more than an experimental unit, and yet steamtanks seem to show up to every major battle. I'd Headcanon it to where steamtanks are like the high elf equivalent to dragons. Every major army has at least one, but they still aren't common enough to make their faction OP

>>49314684
9th Age is a fan made continuation of the tabletop game, fixing most of it's flaws, but being fan made, all lore is replaced with their own to dodge GW's IPhammer

Age of Sigmar is the new GW product, if you love Warhammer don't even bother with it, basically a dumbed down skirmish game, if that is your thing, play 40k instead (some of WHFB models got a stupid name and are part of it's model range)

So for playing the tabletop, get your army and play with 9th Age rules or 8th Edition (still has quite some players) or find a 3rd party wargame, those seem the best options

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>>49314807
>tfw within a few years we probably won't even have these threads

>>49314684
Get out of here with your AoS bait questions, we don't need another thread being shit up by AoS vs T9A discussion
Though on the off chance you're being genuine, if you have no connection to the game you're better off starting AoS, it's easy to get into and is gaining popularity and support. t9a is more for people who already played previous editions and are familiar with the mechanics and whatnot. Despite all the shitposting in these threads, you can easily play either ruleset using current warhammer lore instead. AoS promotes historical battles and has rules for all models from 8ed under their legacy warscrolls.

>>49314854
Its telling that GW is trying to incentivize AoS rules in the Old World.

Because the new setting is so shit and the AoS rules are fairly unpopular.

>>49314832
I feel like 1e seems a little more grounded

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Is routing from battle a reason to become a slayer?

>>49315086
could be if the circumstances are sufficiently shameful

>>49315086
Almost anything is. It depends wholly on the shame of the Dwarf in question.

Becoming a Slayer is Dwarf Seppuku. It proves you have unquestionable honor. Do it when your legacy may suffer, or your clan could diminish.

>>49315086
Depends on context. Retreating from battle because you realize you cannot win here and it would be a pointless waste of lives to keep fighting is okay. Dwarfs did it during the war of the beard when they were first getting BTFO by dragon princes and had no way to bring them down.

fleeing from battle to save yourself and leaving your fellow dwarfs unsupported is oath breaking and is definitely a cause for becoming a slayer

>>49314257
ok cool thanks for the info.

I thought maybe you guys might have had it because it was warhammer quest.

It's actually quite difficult finding the older specialist games like Man o War as well.

But all the fantasy stuff you guys have is great.

cu

>>49315159
Or when you just have nothing else to gain or lose. There was a dwarf in a short story who was in the last of a line of dwarves that had to live with the shame of one of their ancestors fleeing battle and failing his duties as a bodyguard, and he was about to take up the oath when a Slayer offered to take him to his ancestor's lost hold. The slayer turned out to be the spirit of his ancestor, who brought him there to prove that he had not run from battle but farther into it, dying after killing whole hordes of goblins in his grief-fueled rage.

>dwarfs flat out refuse to help even though they've had the technology for centuries.

Didn't the Dwarfs teach the Empire how to make blackpowder and they've been regretting it ever since?

>>49314832
>A lot of that stuff isn't even canon anymore

Doesn't need to be canon to be a good idea.

>>49315086
>You spilled my beer!
>Shaving muh head.
>You incorrectly calculated interest on this loan!
>Shaving muh head.
>You used the wrong cheese in this meal!
>Shaving muh head.

I'm assuming you're asking because you're working on a Dwarf Slayer character and the simple answer is yes - it's a good enough reason.

The more complicated answer is Dwarfs aren't humans, and they don't think like we do. If you can justify it as a bizarre morality system, then it works.

>>49315259

Fuck yeah, Dwarfs.

>>49315086
depends on the dawi autism.

>49307992
>For all we know she's ugly as fuck.

Emmanuelle is consistantly described as one of the beauties of the land. One of the most popular (and diva-esque) actresses of the setting is constantly having a not-so-subtle bitchfest with her over who is the prettiest.

>49308046
>Personally, I complain.

I think the best thing TVTropes has done is to give a common point of reference for different ideas and a name that people can recognize.

>>49316773
Dwarfs taught the empire enough about technology to survive, but that's about it. They gave humans gun powder but anything after that was human innovation. Which is why dwarf handguns and engine technologies are leagues ahead of anything the humans have come up with. Even though disgraced dwarf engineers often end up in the empires engineering schools, representatives from the Karaz ankor keep their eye on them to make sure they don't give away dwarf secrets.

>>49316773

I like that Barak Varr had an alternative to becoming a slayer - crewing submarines. It's considered so lethal that you might as well have become a slayer.

Since "there are as many elves as the plot requires" how do you view the populations, cities and army sizes of the various factions? Do you go with the more grounded WHFRP numbers that are closer to real life, or do you prefer the massive "uncountable armies" interpretation of it where hundreds of thousands turn up at major battles?

>>49318777
I figure "dying race" is a combination of political/military future and racial outlook, not a factor of actual current population.

I figure most of any race other than High Elves and Dwarfs are noncombatants. Even Daemons, most just tend to their master's domains other than Khorne's which are just perpetually fighting each other.

>>49318777
I usually go by the 1ed WFRP sourcebook numbers in battles. But honestly, it rarely comes up. Knowing a rough idea of how many people might be in a village vs. a city is just flavour for how busy and bustling the location might be. At the end of the day, there are as many people as the story requires, but I try to keep it consistent.

>>49313681

My personal head-canon is that the Empire knows how to make the Steam Tanks - they're just shitty, high resource projects that aren't worth the effort.

The keep the idea of '12 Steam Tanks' alive because they become hero pieces - mechanical embodiments of the Empires ingenuity. Any time one gets too old or damaged to be fully operational, they replace it with a fresh one with the same paint-job/armament. They only discontinue a 'line' of tanks when the tanks destruction was too high-profile to be hidden.

But again, that's just my personal headcanon that I've used with my WFRP group.

>>49310881
If possible, I'd drop some points from your lord/heroes to get either a Necromancer or another character. For a 2500 point game, 3 characters taking up more than 1000 points is kinda squishy.

Hey, apparently this mod is a thing
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=759346526

adds regiments of renown to dorfs and gobbos.

>>49315012
>I feel like 1e seems a little more grounded

1ed is where you get the whole 'The world is shit, and you're just a shitty person trying to make it a little less so' schtick. The idea that Warhammer is about the little guy standing up against the greater horrors.

Unfortunately, that's the only place where this theme is consistent or really applied.

>>49319522
Whereas 2e is more "The world is shit, and you're not really going to do much to change that, good luck going out and getting your guts pulled out by some monster."

>>49319657

Which is still pretty much the same as 1ed. 2ed is just 1ed revamped and improved.

>>49318858
For the elves and dwarfs i always saw "dying race" to just mean in comparison to how they used to be back in the old days. Some sources have the individual dwarf holds with populations in the tens of millions, and back then the holds were filled to the brim with dwarfs. Same with the elf cities, which I see as being absolutely massive but not full thanks to all the elfs who have been dying in the various wars and the low fertility rates.

A good way to look at it, If 90% of the earths population got wiped out that still leaves 700 million people alive. Thats still a fuckload of people and without context it'd be hard to think of that as a "dying race" but compared to the 7 billion there used to be it is.

Endhammer Character Proposal for a revamped, surviving Talabheim:

>Captain Sigismund Kohler of the Knights Panther
With the Elector Prince of Talabecland, Helmut Feuerbach, missing and the highest ranking noble in the Crater City, Duchess Elise von Krieglitz, having taken hemlock, the city was ripe for conquest. Into the void of leadership stepped Captain Sigismund, the commander of the Knights Panther chapter house in Talabheim. Forming up free companies and those of the Talabecland militia who had not fled, as well as conscripting what bounty hunters, pit fighters, and other hard men had missed their chance to flee the city, he organized the defenses. The Crater Wall of Talabheim requires thousands of men to hold, but it can withstand tens of thousands. The branch of the Chaos horde which washed upon Talabheim was led by the Kurgan warlord Ulla the Talon of Tchar, a Tzeentchian champion.

Ultimately, the city withstood the siege and the sacrifice of a Knight Panther and his retinue of conscripted pitfighters setting off an artillery store took out one of the vast defensive towers on the crater parapet (and took Ulla with it).

Now, Captain Sigismund leads a city of ragged veterans and paranoid city-folk, having stayed so long behind enemy lines they're unsure what remains of the Empire. Envoys have only just made contact with Middenheim and Nuln.

Captain Sigismund, himself, is a bull of a man. Tall, broad, and sporting a thick, drooping mustache, he is everything an Empire knight ought to be. In battle, he wears a full suit of plate and the leopard cloak of his order, a mighty battle axe in his hand.

>>49320052
>endhammer
pls no.

>>49318777
Better to just play ogres so you don't have to worry about fluffy numbers and be happy with "we be fukken alloverz, ghurb"

>>49320052

I like it.

What's your view on the White Wolves?

>>49320203
What if i want fluffy numbers for the ogres?

Either way, the fluff is pretty open ended with the populations and barely gives hard numbers. a regiment of state troops can be anywhere from 100-1000, depending on how you want to head canon it. I always tend to favor the higher end "armies that covered the lands" approach.

>>49320153
Don't even fight it anymore, just ignore it. Its just 2 guys discussing their fan fiction, let them be.

>>49320344
Check out some of the RPG supplements, they have some population numbers in there. I'd go by the 1ed books for an idea of population numbers in towns, as 2ed is effected by the Storm of Chaos pruning.

>>49319315
Make the BSB a Wight, grab a Necro?

>>49320052

Did you want Sigismund to be just a tabletop character and focus on combat, or should he also have a hand in the intrigue and power play around Talabheim and the Knights Panther?

>>49319917
The lore supports this. Yvresse and Tiranoc are dead nations, Tiranoc is shattered and barely making enough to contonue their lifestyle while Yvresse only has a single settlement with life in the entire region that's the size of real life Asia and its one giant ghost town manned by a handful of guards.

Eataine and Avelorn on the other hand are basically the same as in the golden age.

>>49320605
That'd do the trick.

One thing you have to ask yourself though -
what's more important to you for the list, character or usability?

There's no right answer to this. But it'll help you determine how you want to build your list and what advice would work best. If you're going by just what minis you have, then someone telling you to drop a lord and take a black coach is useless.

If you're happy sticking to the character of your army, then say so and we'll figure out a way to get it to where you want it to be.

>>49320639
>Yvresse only has a single settlement with life in the entire region that's the size of real life Asia and its one giant ghost town manned by a handful of guards.
>that's the size of real life Asia

Wait, what? Really? That...doesn't sound right, but I'll admit I could be wrong. The Warhammer planet is roughly contiguous with Earth, right? They are about the same size.

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>>49320639
>Yvresse only has a single settlement with life in the entire region that's the size of real life Asia

All of Ulthuan isn't even the size of real life Asia.

>>49320700
Warhammer world is bigger than Earth.

>>49320714
Source?

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>>49320657
The only thing I want to stick to is Lahmia in theme. I have a fuckton of Ghouls and Horrors from my 8e VC Strigoi army, but kind of collected a bit of everything in the last six years in this massive, 1/4 actually worked on collection.
The problem is I only have two units of Skeletons, and no Grave Guard. Figured I'd have to get those.

I do have a box of converted Grave Guard from a guy who kitbashed together Halberdiers and Zombies that I never painted, as well as some Empire Handgunners.

Got a Mortis Engine, a Coven Throne, a Corpse Cart, a partially converted Black Coach into a Lahmian Coach (Reaper table chair set seats, with Coven Throne vampires sitting in them and looking out the window), the entire von Carstein family in old models other than Mannfred plus the generic von Carsteins on foot and horseback, two old Necromancers plus the new one, foot and Horseback Necrarchs, two Varghulfs, nine Fel Bats, two Bat Swarms, three foot and three mounted Lahmians with the original Neferata with her cat still in box, two boxes of Zombies, three Dire Wolves, a box of Black Knights/Hexwraiths, a Blood Dragon riding an Abyssal Terror, a Strigoi Ghoul King, a modded female Strigoi Ghoul King, twelve Horrors, around sixty Ghouls, an old metal Spirit Host, an assortment of old 80's metal skeletons on horse and foot that may or may not be Citadel minis, like six old metal Wraiths plus the new plastic one and four banshees with one being the new plastic.
Also, Mortarch Neferata and Nagash.

Big collection, but I only played four good matches in 8e and am going into 9e not knowing since I can't just look at a shit ton of guides and batreps on a bunch of different websites. All that's assembled is my Strigoi.

So I can go any direction, but wanted to use Mortarch Neferata as my centerpiece and throw in the Coven Throne and/or Black Coach.

>>49320680
The Warhammer World is 10x the size of our world.

See, the GW guys applied "there are as many Elves as the plot demands" and "bigger numbers sound epic" when making maps, and copy/pasted the same info on the maps edition after edition.

So if you look at the scale of things like Nehekara and the Empire as they compare to real life counterparts, then look at the proportion in comparison to everything else in the Warhammer World, you find theirs is approximately ten times the size of our world.

Even accounting for their maps being inaccurate, they're still labeled thousands of miles when they should only be tens to hundreds.

Yvresse has a handful of "towns" that are nothing more than military outposts, and one giant city that was once the size of a traditional kingdom by itself. Full of opera houses, palaces, storehouses, markets, parks, all empty. There's only enough Yvressians to man the walls, patrol the city, hold the garrisons, and staff the Spire where Eltharion watches from above the fog that blankets the landscape for those trespassing in the kingdom. All that land, and only a tiny number of Elves. THAT is the dying race.

Then you have Eataine, AKA Faerun Elf kingdom.

>>49320633
Both? I'd like him to be a new hero you can take (as people have been asking for new characters in addition to the new setting) but also I'd like him to be the de facto leader of Talabheim, with the people looking to him for guidance.

>>49320233
The White Wolves and Teutogen Guard have a resurgence under Heinrich and his friend the Ar-Ulric, being re-enlisted as regular members of the Middenland army.

>>49320745
See
>>49320968

I'd link the place where they go into detail on it, but Whineseer was nuked by GW. But I can link this.
http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=46&id=43832&catid=2&func=fb_pdf

Its the same kind of discussion, only the Whineseer one went through every map.

>>49320968
>The Warhammer World is 10x the size of our world.

Source?

>>49321029
The maps.

All of them.

Look at the scale on almost amy Warhammer map. The numbers are ridiculously huge.

Bretonnia is smaller on the map than real life France for example, but when you crunch the numbers it ends up three times bigger.

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>>49321029
>>49321025
>>49320968

Y'all listen up.

See this?

This is a map of our most glorious Empire.

What you see down there in the bottom right hand corner is called a 'Scale'. We use this to get an idea of distances.

As you can see, according to the scale the distance between Altdorf and Middenheim is somewhere around 225ish miles.

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>>49321056
>>49321059

Now you done hold up, buckaroo.

You see that red line up there? We have established that's at the 225 mark.

Now see this? This here is the best map we've got of the entirety of the warhammer world. Y'all see that line there? Take a gander. It's the lil' blue one up in our Glorious Empire.

That's Middenheim to Altdorf.

And that's about 225 miles.

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>>49321081
>>49321059
>>49321056

Now ya see here boy, this here is a map of what y'all edu-ma-cated individuals might call 'the real world'.

If y'all look closely, you should happen upon another one of them there scales down in the corner over yonder.

For y'all convenience, I've made another line that'd measure about 225-250miles on that there scale. Take your time, buttercups, I ain't in no hurry now.

>>49321059
>>49321081
>>49321101
Yeah, not all the maps line up right. Naggaroth is tiny, Ulthuan is huge, Empire is tiny, Bretonnia is huge, Nehekhara is fucking massive.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?5663-Dimensions-of-the-Warhammer-World

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>>49321101
>>49321081
>>49321059
>>49321056

Now this'un might be a tad tricky to y'all so try to follow along 'n I'll do what I can to help ya figure this out.

What this is, is that same there picture of the Warhammer World overlaid on a picture of our world. The map of the warhammer world was then scaled down, y'all might say, until it's lil' ol' 225 mile line was the same size as OUR 225 mile line.

See un' somethin' a might peculiar comfabulating up as a result of this?

Now, I will concede that there may be some map trickery going on, what with the difficult nature of representing a three dimensional globe, as you might call it, onto this here paper. But what you see is a damn site different to no ten times the size of the world.

Hope this'n been a might educational to y'all.

>>49321059
>>49321081
>>49321101
>>49321139

Now, y'all might be wondering what conclusions this matriculation could be leading to y'all. And that there is the easiest bit.

It's a darn sight more likely that this ol' Warhammer world is supposed to be equivalent in size to our big ol' blue marble. What with most depictions of the setting in the lore describing what you might call realistic travel times between cities of an equitable distance.

I'll grant you, things get a tad confusing the closer to them there warp gates that you be getting, but that's to be expected.

>>49321139
>>49321173
Alright, fuck it, I'll prove you wrong. Gimme a few to get the 6e Tomb Kings book with the scale on the map.

>>49321173
>>49321139
>>49321101
>>49321081
>>49321059
I couldn't even read through this without cringing

>>49320880
Depending on how creative you can be, it's not entirely out of character to use other army units in an Lahmian force - what with the whole 'willful seductress' sort of theme. If your opponents are cool with it, you could essentially proxy units if you fancy it.

>there are as many miles as the plot requires

>>49321206
>Alright, fuck it, I'll prove you wrong.

Dude, it makes more sense that the Warhammer World is just Earth sized and that fantasy writers have no sense of scale. All the old WFRP maps are pretty consistently earth-like.

>>49321273
>>49321206

No, no. Both of you stop it. This is how stupid shit starts. From here people will start bitching and the whole fuckfest will start again.

Lets just assume that the maps are inconsistent consistently and you can use whatever scale works best for you.

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>>49321206
Well, this is the map. Somehow the nerds on Warseer were able to run this against a fuckload of other maps and figure out the scale is fuckmassive. I'm not so good with math or maps, but since its what the entire Warhammer community used for damn near ten years it must be right.

Anyone know how to access the Warseer archive? That can't be gone too, isn't there a website that tracks and saves webpages as an archive of the whole internet or something?

>>49321262
>>49321273
>>49321297
Yeah, that works. "GW is shit and fucked up" solves all arguments, and anyone who disagrees is the faggot to point at, ridicule, and report.

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I found a cool Tomb Kings picture I haven't seen before.

Does that chill out the thread?

>>49321324
I don't think that's a warhams pic, but its still cool.

>>49321324
If only you could post it without watermark.

Anyone have a guide or advice for how to adapt Empire in Flames/Empire at War to 2e canon?

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>>49321347
Sorry, browsing a Russian site on a phone.
Russians always gave the best Warhammer galleries.

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>>49321367

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>>49321298

250 miles on this map.

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>>49321378
Fuck it.

I like you guys, so have the gallery link.

http://joyreactor.cc/tag/Warhammer%2BFantasy

Looks like they have a lot of good stuff. Concept art Kerillian and cosplay Druchii and the like.

>>49321324
>living woman
>living snake
>living panther
>in nehekara
fucking dropped

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>>49321380
>>49321298

Same distance on the big map.

The blue line is the same 225 miles from Altdorf to Middenheim.

There's a little bit of inconsistency, but not - this planet is x10 of Earth inconsistency.

>>49321246
I don't like EndTimes lore, but figured I could use Ghoul models as part of Neferata's Silver Pinnacle force.

I just want to be fluffy and mid to high tier competitive. If I can avoid shit, low, and god tier while still sticking to theme, I'm happy.

I'm just having a hard time rolling 5T9A around my head.

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>>49321396
I think that's supposed to be Nagash. After he became a Lich, before he wiped out all life in Nehekhara.

>>49321403
Dammit, I really wish the Warseer link worked. They had that all figured out. There's a reason we've all been going with it for ten years.

>>49321449
>There's a reason we've all been going with it for ten years.
Who's we? I've been using the WFRP maps, and they paint a very different picture to a world ten times the size. I only hear this 10x meme on 4chan.

>>49321449
I remember that thread, i think the official consensus was the warhammer world was 3 times bigger in terms of surface area, not 10. maybe 10x the volume, which is almost entirely irrelevant, but not 10x the surface area.

>>49321488
>>49321505
Could you stop please spamming these pictures? Its not like they are especially good, or thread need bumping.

>>49321324
>>49321435

>BITCHES FOR NAGASH

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>>49321515
Alright, last one.

>>49321533
>resistant to magic
>getting BTFO by an elf mage
i'm confused

>>49321588
Not all Bloodthirster's have collars of Khorne.

And even then, Collar of Khorne's can be overloaded.

>>49321588
Story/gameplay separation.

Elves and Daemons are as strong as the plot demands.

>>49321358

What's the Empire in Flame/Empire at War?

>>49321588
>an elf Mage
That's Teclis, the most powerful living Sorceror in the setting, almost at Nagash' level of Magical ability. A no name bloodthirster doesn't stand a chance

>>49321056
>>49320968
>>49320714
>BTFO

>>49321527
Nagash = Thulsa Doom
Sigmar = Conan

I'd buy it.

>>49321221
this

>>49321732
>>49321221

Y'all don't need to be reading anything. I know it's not exactly what you might call your strong suit. Just feel free to look at them there pretty pictures that show that the Warhammer world ain't x10 the size of Earth.

>>49321747
Why the fuck are you roleplaying Foghorn Leghorn in a Warhammer Fantasy thread?

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>>49321755
Because people who think the Warhammer World is x10 the size of Earth based on dodgy maths done on Warseer ten years ago are fucking looney.

>>49321508
>3 times bigger in terms of surface area, not 10. maybe 10x the volume

That was about the conclusion. It was also helped by the assumption that a big chunk of the Warhammer World is actually hollow - which a lot of the Dwarf and Skaven material carries outs.

Problem was they based it all on the assumption that all the maps were designed to be accurate an interchangeable, rather than allowing for the possibility of a fuck up. And they didn't compensate for curvature that may have already been depicted on the map or not.

I know this, because I was one of the guys who originally suggested the 10x size. I have since looked back at my work and realised it was fucked.

>>49321396
They might just be really well preserved corpses.

>>49310271
why don't Imperial Knights try to conquer Kislev and convert it to Sigmarianity?

>>49321396
you do realize there're bedouin types there? i remember hearing somewhere that TKs have living servants/slaves these days, especially with all the reconquista they are doing and stuff

>>49322292
Kislev is satellite state already.

>>49322335
that's not a reason not to convert it to sigmarinity. if you gonna be proper not!teutons, you gotta go some lengths.

>>49322292
not even the entire empire worships Sigmar as a god.

>>49322292
What would be the point? Shitty land, a pain to control due to the guerrilla tactics of their armies and they serve as a buffer against Norsca and Chaos

>>49322351
Empire is tolerant country that don't give a fuck if you are elf, dwarf or ogre, they have dozens of gods outside of Sigmar.

>>49322378
so? when did that stop Teutonic Order? fighting in a forest to convert what basically was part of Europe's shield against Golden Horde.

>>49322351
I doubt that the cult of Sigmar is outlawed in Kislev, just like the Empire, there's not "one single religion"

If extending Sigmar's faith is the goal, why not go to Bretonnia instead? It's closer, and Sigmar's worship is actually banned there

>>49322403
Did you even read

>>49322380
>>49322376

?

Let them take over their own country first before they look to expanding borders.

Not that they could, mind you. The Empire's armies don't seem to have the real numbers or motivation to conquer other nations.

>>49322433

If Sigmar worship is the goal, first step is to tackle the Middenheim problem.

>>49322433
well, Christianity wasn't outlawed in Ancient Lithuania either. didn't stop Teutons.

>>49322465
the Empire has absolutely nothing in common with the Teutonic Order.

which mind you, is spelled Teutsche Orden in German, which is just a spelling of Deutsch in medieval europe.

>>49322582
well, apart from Teutogens being one of Empire's founding tribes and expy of an early germanic teuton tribe, and Teutonic Order being basically all germans and speaking german and its lands becoming a part of germany, and Teutonic order being THE European Knightly Order that was purely European and didn't bugger off into Holy Land (and didn't turn bankers), and "teutons" being a poetic name for germans in many languages and Empire being fucking Germany with serial numbers still on... no, you are wrong.

>>49322668
Etymology is not ideology.

>>49322668
>and Teutonic order being THE European Knightly Order that was purely European and didn't bugger off into Holy Land
bullshit, it wasn't even the only european Crusading Order that stayed in Europe.

Many Orders crusaded in Spain and Eastern Europe.
Not to mention all the countless knightly orders than never left Europe.

and even then it didn't have anythig in common with the Empire from Warhammer.

>>49322668
the Teutonic Order was founded outside Akkon during the 3rd Crusade for Jerusalem you retarded honk.

>>49322709
okay, I should've clarified, an Order that stayed in Europe AND had more than 3 members total AND wasn't a medieval gentlemen's club instead, like those british ones.

>>49322734
it did not "stay" in europe, it was founded in the middle east.

WFRPG gms

How fast do you like your player characters to grow? Is there a system to allot xp at the end of sessions?

My friends and I recently started a campaign, fought mostly goblins and some bandit

Can I talk about T9A here? I will talk about T9A here. In WHFB terms, 'cos I obviously still think of it as WHFB.

Skaven get a new mount in T9A. A monster rat, sorta like what FW made. Monstrous Beast, Regen (4+), S5-T5, W4, Large Target, Breath Weapon, chariot base. 100 points.


Seems nice, +1T & W for the Warlord look nice, he gets free 4++, just needs an anti-flaming gem or helmet, and Large Target is a godsend.

Was thinking of converting one as a huge mechanical tank-thingie for my Skryre army.

Thoughts?

>>49322862
do it, try it and either come back with your shield or upon it

>>49323066
what do Dwarfs think about that saying I wonder. seeing as they fight on their shields.

>>49321644
>almost at Nagash' level of Magical ability

Why do you lie like that? Teclis was nothing to Nagash. Him and Malekith felt like mice before mighty Nagash when they spirit walked to his pyramid.

>>49317314
That and slayer pirates.

>>49317314
do they still get orange mohawks?

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>>49322862
Sounds reasonable, if you manage to get one of the old skeletal giant rat for necromunda you could use it as a base for the conversion, otherwise you could look into the chaos range for juggernaut and 40k daemon engines, or even dark eldar pain engines bits if you like that kind of decorations.

in AoS, the skaven built parasite engines which are giant insect-like mechanical monsters, theu could give some inspiration
http://ageofsigmart.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=parasite_engine

>>49323193
oh, that's cool! thanks for idea!

>>49323101
i guess they would think themselves so brilliant you either come back victorious or victorious -and- with a promotion

>>49322847
I usually play with the thought that players should get a minimum of 50xp per session providing they play a good game and stay in character.

Add extra XP for any challenges they overcome - not just combat challenges either. A good rule of thumb is to use the Challenge modifier as an example of the XP reward.

>>49323101
>Come back a pleb or come back a legend.

>>49323178
Yeah, and so do their parrots.

>>49323920
>Yeah, and so do their parrots.
fuck, that be awesome

>steampunk aqualungs
>oh, not for dwarfs, those are Deep Slayers
>tiny steampunk aqualungs for parrots so the little buggers can escape to the surface if the submarine gets wrecked

>>49323954
>Drunk, crazed Deep Slayers wielding harpoons and pressure suits, climbing over the hull of the submarine to get to the fucking kraken that's trying to gnaw it's way through the portholes.
>Three slayers crammed into a hollow torpedo, hurtling their way towards the Black Arc and ready to raise hell when they bust through.
>The Dwarfen navy is having issues with Skaven U-boats, unleash the Death Charges. Barrels full of Slayers.

>>49313681
They used to have 112, but Elector Count Vance Stubberg lost most of them

>>49314257
No its like asking a ST:TOS guy about ST:TNG

>>49324161
No, it's like asking a Star Wars fan about the Episodes 1, 2 or 3.

>>49324432
No its like asking star wars fan about holiday special or ewoks series.

>>49324478
No, it's like asking a Star Wars fan how they know ewoks are called ewoks.

What is the future of Warhammer? Is it now effectively a video game IP? What about Black Library fiction? Will they cease publishing Warhammer material?

>>49324873
Fantasy?
yes
and
yes

>>49323108
Post-godhood only.

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>>49321347
Literally 5 seconds in paint, you lazy faggot.

>>49325255
lads I'm scared

I love warhammer fantasy - novels, tabletop games, video games, you name it - but without WHFB it's like the IP has lost its center of gravity and its future has become that much more uncertain

>>49325673
Jump ship.

I want T9A to replace it by actually making a full setting, with novels. That's how Warhammer started in the first place after all, GW lost the rights to D&D and Glorantha and needed an excuse to keep selling the minis they made for them. Then started making rules for the models other companies were making, took them ten years to start making legit Warhammer models and establish a setting.

Because Fantasy is gone for good as a supported tabletop with growing continuity.

>>49325717
I have too much invested in the Old World to become as enthusiastic about a new setting. I'll just hold onto the hope that CA and other video game devs will keep the dream alive.

>>49325813
It'll be awhile for TW:W2, and since GW shat the bed with FFG all the Warhammer content that follows will be AoS.

>>49318777
Last time I tried to estimate population and armies numbers for Empire I just taken numbers from XVI-XVII century HRE, Empire if I remember correctly is larger but less populated so 16 milion after 30 years war sound good, for Kislev I'd use PLC population after Deluge ~10 million

From 16 million I'd assume 1,6 million manpower reserve and around 160-300k standing army.
That is after Storm of Chaos, before I'd use 21 million from before 30 years war.

But only for fun, cause when plot demands there will be enough troops.
Because if we try to use demographic and manpower it turns out that Chaos never had a fair chance other than storming Middenheim and killing Ulric to crush Empire's spirit.
Even if Arachon would kill all of imperial army then Empire could just up it's mobilisation and rekt chaos by defence in depth, soviet style

>>49321395
Thanks for the link, I got a shitton of art from that.

>>49325813
The Old World is the best fantasy setting there is. That's what makes me despise T9 and at least appreciate Endhammer.

>>49327065
How the hell can you hate T9A and live Endhammer?

EH is shitty fanfiction about the single worst story written for the setting, T9A is literally just Warhammer without mentioning anything copyrighted.

>>49327065
>despise T9A
Give them some slack, it's a community-driven project popular enough to be forced to dodge anything relating WHFB

And with a great part of WHFB's fanbase having migrated there, things are bound to get close to the Old World, but without GW wanking Chaos hopefully... they just got started, it took 30 years for WHFB to get where it was

Same with Endhammer, minus the Copyright part

Today I actually decided to look at the GW website to see how much their paint and glue cost because I decided to dig up my old boxes of unpainted, unglued WHFB models from the basement because WTW has gotten me interested again

And I found that seemingly entire armies of warhammer fantasy units have been renamed but are otherwise intact as age of sigmar units

So I'm wondering, I have wood elves and bretonnians and ogres. Obviously bretonnians no longer exist in age of sigmar but the other two groups seem to. Do I have essentially an Order army and a Destruction army? And if so, what was the overall point of age of sigmar in the first place? I'm even more baffled over them "destroying" WHFB if they were just going to continue most armies in AoS, meaning I can play without bothering to buy any new models.

>>49321380
>athiopos tribes

>>49327887
GW half-asses a reboot like a comic.

People rush to buy a #1, interest wames at #6, so you just reboot reboot reboot.

Also, there are no "Destruction" and "Order" armies. You get bonuses for fielding a certain amount of the same faction, but can field literally anything in your army.

Archaon can lead Sigmarines and Lizardmen if you want.

It was a gimmick with a generic Steam game storyline and rules so barebones that a full game has less depth than a starter set demo game.

>>49327887
Wood Elves lost a lot of models actually.

>>49327111
I don't agree that EH is shitty fanfic and all the copyrighted stuff was the good parts. The dumb names of T9A turn me off entirely.

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>>49327887
>the GW website to see how much their paint and glue cost
If you feel comfortable with it, ditch GW paints and get alternative brands, Vallejo for example, but above all else, do not buy GW glue, pic related lasted me 5 years and still works

For Age of Shitmar, check this and judge for yourself
1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer:_Age_of_Sigmar

>>49328271
So just call them what they are.

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>>49328412

>>49327065
Old world is the best setting, there's no reason to migrate over to its 2 aborted mutant babies. If you want Just head canon some stuff into the setting of younwant, play around with different scenarios, but don't think 2 shitty fan fictions are the only possible continuations.

Personally i despise both T9A and Endhammer. T9A for the same reasons as you do, the shitty names and journalistic style of the fluff turned me off entirely.

Endhammer was an attempt to "fix" the endtimes but they ended up just making an even shittier version of it without landing the final blow.

Any chance of a return of WHFB as a specialist game?

I feel like with all these pc games coming out in the old world it would be retarded not to capitalize.

>>49329087
Whatever vladfag

>>49329087
T9A is literally just a ruleset, and said ruleset is just an evolution of Swedish Comp 8e. The "lore" is just there for people who weren't Warhammer fans previously.

So, Knights Panther in Talabheim? Anyone disagree? We all like this?

Anyone think Talabheim should remain destroyed?

(This seems small enough to have a mid-week poll. Also, the Dwarfs seems to have changed from 'just Grey Mountains' to include Karaz-A-Karak/Barak Varr/Zhufbar. I'll change that on the Endhammer page - Elf and Beast dude, your changes are still needed)

>>49316773
Total War actually made me think of the question cause a lot of dwarfs route surprisingly quickly and usually at very inconvenient times

>>49331322
Total war is not Lore accurate, though I'm sure at some point there will be a mod that fixes this

>>49329447
>it would be retarded not to capitalize.
this is GW we are talking about, retarded choices are their thing

>>49329471
t. butthurt endhammer expert

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>>49331107
>A-anyone disagree? w-we all like this?

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>>49329471
>vladfag
I wonder who could be behind this post?

>>49331708
Bruh. There's been so much shitflinging.

>>49331322
Dwarfs routing in general isn't really a lore break. Besides, *Slayers* never rout, and not only do they never rout but they always get one last attack in whenever a "model" gets killed.

>>49331897
Shitflinging was the only thing that kept endhammer discussion alive. Once it stopped, end hammer discussion died down to 3 dudes putting out suggestions and agreeing with each other. On one of the previous threads there was more discussion on the mechanical horse than endhammer.

>>49332137
You don't think any of the Endhammer people were involved in the mechanical horse/lore discussion? Don't be a silly bitch. I am [the] Endhammer guy. I've been here. Endhammer comes in waves. Sometimes people feel like fanficking; other times they don't.

Right now I'm trying to read through all the Enemy Within books for a campaign I wanna run. Empire at War's a fucking slog, though.

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>>49329523
Some people want to push an alternate lore with T9A though. They like a chance to replace Sigmar with a solar goddess or something.

I can't argue about its quality as a ruleset, but some of the hardcore believers, who think it will actually replace WFB, are a bit too much.

http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Win_Our_Minis

neat.

>>49326199
You should check out some Gazettes. They usually have a decent take on the population. Use the pre-SoC ones for a better idea of max population. The post-SoC have entire villages emptied.

>>49332762
>Right now I'm trying to read through all the Enemy Within books for a campaign I wanna run. Empire at War's a fucking slog, though.

Were you the one trying to convert it to fit in the 2e setting?

Because that'll be a bitch of a job - especially given how they characterise certain setting and campaign critical people.

>>49333396
Yeah. That was me.

I've been having to go back and forth between the 1e original Enemy within book (which was also their Empire book) and Sigmar's Heirs. What I think I'm gonna try to do is simply have Empire at War predate 2e, and somehow incorporate Karl-Franz as a different character. Maybe have his father or grandfather be the ailing Emperor.

But even that fucks up Boris/Heinrich and the fact that Valmir von Raukov and Aldebrand Ludenhof exist as minor Counts, Theoderic Gausser is Marshall of Nordland (not its Grand Baron). It's... bluh. I'll come back if I figure out a way to make the fluff work together.

But the Enemy Within is a big inspiration for Endhammer at least.

I've been wondering about this abit, does anyone know if tomb kings have any living servants or vassals? I understand that vampire counts keep humans around as food/fodder but do tomb kings who dont need humans as food have any use or need for the living? If they do what kind of living conditions can one expect?

>>49334368
Maybe some desert nomads perhaps?

>>49334368
It's implied they enslave the living people's they conquer and ship them back to nehekara to work on rebuilding it back to its former glory.

>>49334368
I don't believe the Tomb Kings have any living servants. The entire population was turned into spooky skeletons and they generally don't like fleshfags on their turf.

If they did, they would've been taken by conquest from borderlands. Still though, don't know how they'd survive as I'm pretty sure the Kangz don't grow anything.

>>49334368
Only coastal kingdoms could support living population, Nehekhara itself was rendered devoid of moisture or any forms of life.

Maybe a TK who traded with a coastal kingdom could do it.

Having living servants would certainly be a luxury though.

Khalida is also friendly towards those who kill vampires regardless of whatever else.

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Do orcs ever rape people/dwarfs in this setting?

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Why are historical warhammers so gay looking?

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kek, peasants are such manlets.

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>>49334562
I don't believe greenskinz have genitals. They're alien spore people.

What you want is Beastmen.

>>49334568
Because they were made for functionality, not aesthetic. And functionally they don't need to be massive.

>>49334344

Yeah, TEW doesn't work in a post-SoC 2ed setting. Shit, it doesn't even work in the current characterization of the setting. Changing Karl-Franz from a sniveling weasel into a gorgeous slice of beefcake really cripples the TEW campaign.

Unless you can somehow justify the events of TEW turning Karl-Franz into the hunka hunka burning love he is now.

>>49334562
Unclear. In 1ed WFRP there were half-orcs, but that concept has been phased out since then.

Arguable with all the torture and shit going on, they probably have raped captives, it just depends on whether you think they had genitals when they did it or not.

Beastmen and Firmir definitely did. Maybe Skaven, too.

>>49334758
>Maybe Skaven, too.
que?

>>49334562
They don't have penises post 3e.

They only have two ballsacks full if spores that burst when they die.

>>49334568
Because they don't need to look good, only work well.

https://youtu.be/qhknaG9ifbs

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>>49334832
>>49334646
>I-it's not about size, it's how you use it!
Historical "men" how can they even compete?

>>49334832
https://youtu.be/OF0JpDiW33c

Skip to 3:25.

>>49334859
Real weapons are usually lost at some point during a battle, ornate weapons are purely ceremonial.

Furthermore, the point of a warhammer is to quickly deal a strong blow to an armored foe. By the nature of the weapon, its already going to do damage so increasing the size does nothing.

Warhammers are also not the weapon of a high rank nobleman usually, they're more man at arms to low nobility tier.

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>>49334895
In warhammer they definitely are a weapon of high rank, but that has more to do with symbolism since Sigmar carried one.

It's pretty clear GW (and most fantasy writers for that matter) don't know how real weapons work and go for rule of cool instead. Which is why Zweihanders can cleave chaos warriors in 2, hammer heads are 10x bigger than they need to be, and dwarfs use axes and hammers despite fighting in shieldwalls in cramped conditions.

>>49334895
That last part as false. Warhammers were used almost strictly by knights because knights were doing knightly combat.

Now, foot-born men-at-arms would use halberds, poleaxes, bec de corbin. But the small warhammer we most often associate with the "medieval" warhammer was called a "cavalryman's warhammer" and was strictly the province of knights and riders. The Polish hussars even used them in the 16th century (though the saber was the preferred weapon because they were usually fighting lightly armored bullshit musketeers).

>>49334832
These fat man's a bad ass fupa motherfucker.

>>49334758
>>49334859
That's the main problem I'm having. I don't know how to fix Karl-Franz other than making him not Emperor yet.

However, I should note that 2e doesn't have Karl Franz as a warrior prince so much as a statesman. So that does help. And I'll be running this campaign with some people who don't know Warhammer, so I -could- kill off Karl and make it 'epic' for them.

>>49335032
The major problem of Dwarfs is their reach.

Dwarfs with spears = unstoppable.

>>49335089
>However, I should note that 2e doesn't have Karl Franz as a warrior prince so much as a statesman. So that does help. And I'll be running this campaign with some people who don't know Warhammer, so I -could- kill off Karl and make it 'epic' for them.

Do it. It's your game, brosef. You don't need to conform to any norms. Shit, you can just have Karl-Franz as the worm 1e has him as and just use 2e mechanics.

>>49333086
T9A should be loreless or have lore that is only different enough to not get sued, but as close as possible to wfb.

>>49335189
I'd like to keep with fluff as much as possible. Everything before End Times has him as a capable statesman, and that was always the Karl Franz I liked.

Making him a snivelling weasel and dying is a last resort.

>>49335201
Emperor Francis-Carl.

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>>49335105
Speed is also a problem for Dwarfs with the exception of slayers who are suicidal shock troops and lack armor.

Dwarfs lack mobility and speed. Giving them Spears just makes them more effective at what they're already good at by following it to its logical conclusion.

They're short, heavy, and fight in mountains/confined spaces. Dwarf pikemen is just common sense.

>>49335487
But think about where they regularly fight. Pikes make sense when you have the room to create large rigid formations, but if you're in a tight passage, one or two pikes is only going to hold off the enemy for a short while. It goes from a bristling wall to a rickety fencepost.

Spears you might argue for, but think how little room you would have to manuver them compared to something like an axe or a sword. A sword can provide the same thrusting, albeit at a shorter range, and the chopping of an axe can be done in a downwards hack if the walls are too fight to maneuver properly in sideways swings.

>>49335487
A dwarf shieldwall with spears would be almost impossible to dislodge from a tunnel. Even giving them gladius' would make more sense, and punch daggers and trench knives would be excellent sidearms. Most of their foes don't even wear armor so any of these weapons wound be extremely effective. Halberds and mattocks would be useful against armored foes like ogres and black orcs. Hammers and axes should be confined to specialist elites, heroes and slayers who aren't fighting In tight ranks. Come to think of it, hammers and axes make the least sense for the dwarf way of war, the only thing worse would be swords.

>>49335775

Depends on what you imagine tunnel warfare to be like.

If you're picturing tight, well made tunnels that are maybe four or five dwarfs abreast, that'd be in a dwarf hold. And if that's where they are fighting, it's probably a siege situation or a desperate one. That weaponry would make more sense - but why would their military be equipped under the assumption they are going to be on the losing side of a siege and the enemy is going to be in their holds?

If you're picturing dirt tunnels that are still being built, fights there would be grim and dirty and probably involve a lot of flames, poisons, flooding and explosives rather than conventional warfare. The sort of tunnel fights we saw in WW1 and during the Gold Rush.

Dwarfs should definitely just be armed with Shields and Spears in any given situation though. Just makes the most sense.

>>49335743
Hoplite warfare was literally created for the exact style of fighting dwarfs face; narrow mountain passes. The only difference is dwarfs are also fighting underground.

I'll give you pikes would generally be too long to use effectively, but spears used in tight formations with heavily armored dwarfs is pretty much the epitome of unbreakable defense to a frontal assault.

Considering the amount of swing space you need for an axe or a hammer to be effective (even chopping) I don't see how that's more effective than needing no swing space at all, just thrusting.

Given everything their is to about dwarfs, their near unbreakable will, their heavy mass, their low statures and defensive focus, they should be primarily spear wall troops which pin the enemy and hold lines so that thunderers and flamethrowers can wreck their shit.

Not to say some shouldn't have hammers or axes, but it just doesn't make sense for that to be the primary meat of the army. Pike and shot dwarfs would be ridiculously effective.

>>49336006
Most dwarf battles that take place underground are either in conquered holds, sections of the underway or parts of existing holds that have been breached. Ever since the great catastrophe that wrecked most of their holds, dwarfs have been in a constant state of seige so it makes sense for them to be ready for this kind of warfare.

A tactic that could work for the dwarfs in surface battles is the empire tactic of alternating weapons. Some dwarfs have spears to hold their enemies with superior reach, while ither dwarfs between them close in with axes or hammers.

>>49336066
>>49336122

I agree with both of you. But Dwarfs are renowned for being pig-headedly stubborn. I like the idea of a Dwarf Engineer Auxiliary force adopting sensible tactics as well as their better tech and just blowing the traditionalists away with superior fighting tactics.

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>>49331825
Some random dawi.

>>49336066
But hoplites were also meant for fighting primarily against other hoplites, which is not the sort of foes the dwarves face. Their foes all have a crude sort of cavalry, and they're already so stubborn that they don't need a tight formation and shame culture to keep fighting together.

The pike is really useful on the defensive, but as you mentioned, they're only really useful against a frontal assault. If an enemy comes at you from the sides or rear, you're left with a weapon that's too unwieldy to bring about, and shorter spears wouldn't be as useful for pike and shot.

>>49336400
Dwarf vampires fighting Skaven vampires forever in the Dark Beneath the World, a constant back and forth struggle for a tiny settlement that nobody gives a shit about.

Are there any Town-Defence-like games (tabletop, video or board) for Warhammer Fantasy?

I'm looking for someting in "The Horde" style - not the regular-Facebook-junkfood style.

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Karl Franz and Naieth otp.

>>49336559
They stick together to form a near impenetrable wall that has no weak points to take advantage of. With a dwarf on all sides but The front, your enemy is almost always coming from the front. You don't have to worry about being individually surrounded in a shield wall.

but think the most sensible weapons in general would be gladius type weapons or punch daggers in underground battles, and spears and halberds for the primary surface troops. Axes and hammers would be designated for heroes, elites and slayers who fight individually.

>>49337617
hail fellow understander

>>49335201
So far it mostly is that for the Wood Elves.

Tomb Kings got a slightly different mythology, but the only real change is giving Settra an important wife and making some Tomb Kings on Nagash's side in an active civil war between theme.

Who's next? Ogres I think?

>>49337528
No. But there's an Angry Birds ripoff licensed by GW.

>>49324432
You mean the type of thing where people would answer questions about it if their heads weren't shoved so far up their own cunts?

>>49338044
>Angry Birds

Nah, I prefer Khorne to Tzeentch.
"Blood for the Blood God!" is so much more catchier than "Just as Planned" IMHO.

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>>49338054
Yeah, the prequels aren't as much of a sore topic as AoS.

More like asking a lifelong Transformers fan about Michael Bay Transformers. Or asking Bloodrayne fans about Uwe Boll's Bloodrayne. Or asking Spider-man fans about One More Day. Or asking /co/ about The Unfunnies. Or asking /tv/ about legitimately good movies. Or asking /v/ anything.

>>49338114
If I remember right, you're throwing Goblins at other Goblins.

>>49334562
it's first time i see image which shows WHFB orcs actually scary

>>49336400
>D-durkon?

Also, I'm stealing zis art

>>49337723
In general everyone seems to prefer thrusting weapons. Makes you wonder why people developed swords and axes in the first place.

>>49338163

Exactly - too much flying, not enough massive bloodshed.

I'm thinking more in terms of a Battle Generator:
You're trying to keep your peasants alive (and prospering - or at least not starving) by kicking the shit out of all the invading Beastmen, Goblins, Orcs, Elves, Skaven, Ogres & assorted Pirates/Bandits (depending on the position of your Town) that come calling.

>>49338238
Thrusting weapons rule in 'fixed' line shoving match - but they're useless in melee.

Which is why most Spearmen/Pikemen carried axes/swords as backups.

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>Friends want to play D&D
>They have all the books
>My small experience of it leads me to believe WFRP is infinitely better
>Friends want me to be DM D&D

...

>>49338805
slowly add homerules so by the campaign's end they are playing WFRP, without realizing it

>>49338273
> shoving matches
> fixed lines
> implying most swords weren't also thrusting weapons

That's not true. That's not true at all.

>>49338911
well, a good warrior always had to put thrust into his sword...

>>49338911
>> implying most swords weren't also thrusting weapons

Of course they are - but swords can only be used by the front rank in the press of the shoving match.
Spears, otoh, can be used from 2nd & sometimes even 3rd or 4th rank - turning a nice & comfy sexxx into a full-blown gangbang.

>>49339010

Every weapon in the warhammer world gets replaced with an identical design of sword, usable by a standard human.

Who wins?

>>49334758
>Beastmen and Firmir definitely did. Maybe Skaven, too.

Breed-rut with MAN-THINGS? What the fuck-fuck?!?!

>>49339550

Chaos.
They're the only ones with lots of good troops.
Everyone else gets screwed by the replacement & loses their gimmick.

>>49339790
Except the Skaven. They basically just got an upgrade.

>>49339718
Female Skaven are rich pickings aren't they? Like, the sort of reward saved for those who've earned it?

Man-thing slaves, on the other hand...

>>49339814
>Except the Skaven. They basically just got an upgrade.

Srsly? Which one?
The tiny increase in numbers of swordsmen from all the ex-specialists?
While all the others get a massive amount of new swordsmen?
And the only other gimmick Skaven have (except schizo tech) is numbers?

>>49339867
>And the only other gimmick Skaven have (except schizo tech) is numbers?

Yeah.

Massive, massive numbers. The greatest in setting. The only people who come close are the Gobbos and the Undead. And they are distant seconds.

The Skaven Empire span the entire width and breadth of the Dark Beneath the World. If they suddenly all have swords, it's game over.

>>49334758
I like to think All Snotlings are the males of the Greenskin species while all Orcs and Gobbo's are female. And that maybe for a week or two a year the Snots go absolutely insane swell up to troll/ogre size and do an Antechinus.

>>49339891

Srsly dude - they already have all the swords.

And Undead have massive numbers, too.

+ Anyone's Cavalry or Monsters in the WH world would literally run them (Skaven) over by the dozens.
And the rest of Skaven wouldn't have 10:1 advantage needed for the knockout punch.

>>49338805
>>WFRP is infinitely better
It is. Just ask them to try out a short adventure and they'll see the truth of it.

>>49339947
>Srsly dude - they already have all the swords

It's pretty heavily implied that Skaven slaves are usually unarmed or under-equipped. Realistically if they all got swords there would probably be a civil uprising down there.

As for outnumbering 10 x 1. There's 120k Skaven that canonically live under Altdorf. Skavenblight has about a quarter million.

>>49339919
>And that maybe for a week or two a year the Snots go absolutely insane swell up to troll/ogre size and do an Antechinus.

Jesus, your imagination is horrifying.

>>49339998
Keep in mind that the population stats given aren't necessarily indicative of the true population. One of the devs/writers said that '1', in the case of Altdorf's population, means the head of a household, a man who pays taxes or an able bodied male who can bear arms. It doesn't necessarily extend to women, children, the elderly, the poor or those missed by census. I'm sure it's the same with Skaven, but more along the lines of slaves and transients. Otherwise that's not a lot of people in a world that's roughly twice the size of ours.

>>49340049
>Otherwise that's not a lot of people in a world that's roughly twice the size of ours.

We already went through this.

>>49321059
>>49321081
>>49321101
>>49321139
>>49321173

Additionally, even if the numbers are off or undervalued, that means there is at least 100k Skaven beneath the capital city of an Empire whose populate by and large doesn't believe they exist.

Give them all swords, and Altdorf falls.

>>49339010
>in the press of the shoving match.
Stop saying this. All your doing is betraying your ignorance.

>>49340107
Give them all swords and they'd fall on themselves. It took one Skaven to cause an uprising that required legions of Stormvermin to put down. Give them all decent quality weapons and you're asking them to swarm over the Clanrats you have and take over before they, in turn, descend on each other.

>>49340140
>your
*you're

The idea that pitched fights were a 'shoving match' or devolved into such has no validity. The only person I've heard pander this idea is lindybeige, who is not an authority on historical wafare.

>>49340049
>not a lot of people in a world that's roughly twice the size of ours.

FYI - most estimates place the population of Earth during the 1500's at around the 500 million range. And that's the entire planet, of just humans.

A quarter mil. from one race from one city in one tiny corner of the world of Warhammer seems pretty fair.

>>49340145
I know, I said as much here:

>>49339998
>Realistically if they all got swords there would probably be a civil uprising down there

But if you managed to point them in the right direction, it's a terrifying threat.

>>49340156
I'm not saying a quarter million isn't a lot, just that if the planet is that big then there's much more room for people to expand in and be supported by. People were limited by land and resources available to them. I don't have my maps anymore but I think Bretonnia and the Empire are the size of Europe by themselves, at least end to end. The provinces and dukedoms are essentially kingdoms in their own right. I'd think that a quarter million would be a fraction of what a land like that could support, even with all the spooky forests.

>>49340151

They're close enough - the only question is what you're shoving with: your body or spear.
The object is the same: make the enemy fall back & eventually break.

>>49340198

See

>>49340107

The maps are all there. The Old World =/= bigger than Earth. I get that sometimes Fantasy writers can fuck up on scales, but most of the maps of the Empire paint a pretty sensible picture. Not sure where this meme of massive Old World comes from.

>>49340208
>They're close enough - the only question is what you're shoving with: your body or spear.
You don't know what you're talking about. Please stop.

>>49340330

Srsly?
Okay then enligten me: how DO two spear-armed lines fight?

>>49340276
I said the planet is bigger than ours, not just the Old World. Based on this map http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/maps/Map-The-Empire-2-Detailed-Color.jpg

The Empire from the Grey Mountains to the Worlds Edge Mountains is similar to the western edge of Germany, nearly all the way to the eastern border of Poland. A rough estimate, but still a large country.

>>49340358

Again

>>49321139

The best map we have of the Warhammer World, using the most accurate (or at least consistent) scales from the Empire maps paints a pretty clear picture.

That map in the image isn't the Old World. It's the entire Warhammer World.

>>49310881
-You could cut the bsb entirely, give the banner directly to the barrow guard (which would prenvent him from being sniped before the unit makes great weapon attacks).

-Vampire on a throne compared to regular throne with no extra weapons nets you an additional strength 5 attack, and distracting, I'd add at least a halberd or paired weapons, maybe a great weapon for that sweet strength 7 at initiative.

-You'll want another necromancer, else you'll be sweating every 4/5 dice spell by your general.

-You want bats and/or dogs in core also take a banner for the ghouls, scoring is objectives is a big deal in T9A

-You cannot take the wraith champion with the Lamia bloodline (it's Necrarch only)

-Your general being a large target with no ward save can be disatrous esp against cannons. I advise you to go with the von carstein's ring, immunity to multiwounds is pretty great, otherwise the classic 4+ ward is always good. I would also give the revenant fly so your 600pts of murder doesn't get blocked by a 50pt eagle.

-Take a dispel scroll, it's pretty good.

-If you can't buff skeletons, give them sword & board, they'll be a better tarpit I think.

-Bsb is great for tarpitting purposes, you could just put it on the court.

What I would do :
Cut the Bsb for 270 pts left
Cut the champ on the wraith for 60 more

Give the bsb, great weapon and a dragonbane gem to the other courtier for 40pts

Give the banner to the barrow guards for 25pts

Take a lv2 necromancer with the lore of undeath and a bsb for 125pts

Take a unit of bats for 60 pts

Replace Staff & Blade on the general with Eternal Ring, Axe of Battle, potion of strength and swap Random attacks with wail of woe and fly for a net 45 pts increase

Which leaves you with 35pts to spare (i think) so I would cut 2 skellies for a pack of dogs.

>Take a lv2 necromancer with the lore of undeath and a bsb
Meant dispel scroll

>>49340356

inb4 'badly':

https://youtu.be/cmqQ_6xBCE8?t=3m11s

>>49322734
There's still plenty were those criteria do apply.

>>49340395
That's just one map imposed on another without any scale, and most of the Warhammer map's detail is lost.

http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/maps/Map-Warhammer-World-6.jpg

Here's one from the Beasts of Chaos book. Approximently 13000 miles from one side of the map to the other. Probably looks different on a globe but whatever. Still better than the 'best map we have', as you call it.

>>49340356
Imagine hell. Add spears.

>>49340470

HOLY FUCK.

Like banging my head against a brick wall.

I'll walk you through it.

>>49321059
Is a map of the Empire. The red line is 225 miles, Altdorf to Middenheim. The same red line is by the scale for confirmation.

>>49321081
Is a GW released map of the Warhammer World. One of the latest ones released, chronologically speaking. The same red line - again, covering Altdorf to Middenheim is on it for reference. This distance, as has been previously established, is 225 miles.

>>49321101
Is just a map of the earth with a scale in miles. The blue fat line ontop of the scale is closer to 250 miles, but it works for this purpose.

>>49321139
Is the Warhammer map overlaid on the real world map, with the scales shrunk to match.

If you have an issue with this, open the maps yourself and do the same thing.

Even money would suggest the scale in http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/maps/Map-Warhammer-World-6.jpg is off. GW tends to fuck up on stuff like this a lot.

If you go by the scale on the Beast of Chaos book, then every other scale on the maps of the Empire is way off.

>>49340470
>Approximently 13000 miles from one side of the map to the other.

Uh, dude, if the Warhammer World has a circumference of only 13000 miles then it would be HALF the size of earth. A dash more.

Earth's circumference is 25000 miles.

>lrn2geography

>>49340538
>>49340570

If Warhams is nearly half the size, or less, of Earth and has enough hollow space to allow for an entire under-empire...how the fuck does it have Earth-normal gravity?

...

d-does it have Earth normal gravity?

>Lions and horses with wings can fly
>A booze powered gyrocopter can generate enough lift to fly
>Launching a gobbo in a shitty wing suit is a legitimate weapon

Uh....

>>49340613
well, that would explain oversized weapons
and how ogres don't just die under their own weight
also dragons, giants, etc.

your idea sounds sound

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>>49340570
>>49340470

For reference.

The Beast of Chaos map, overlaid on a map of the Earth, with matching scales.

The maps paint a consistent picture - the Warhammer world is smaller than Earth.

>>49321518
Smallest Champion of Khorne evah.

Once again we recieve proof that size isn't everything!

>>49340613

Assuming the gravity is the same, the only way for a smaller planet to have that much pull is for it to be denser.

We know about the Under Empire and the Dark Beneath the World, but it could be safe to assume that is only really relevant towards the mantle.

If the circumference of the world is 13000 miles, that would put the thickness as around 2000ish miles to the core.

It's entirely possible, given the prevalence of Gromril, Ithilmar and other mythical and meteoric metals that the planet really is just that dense.

>>49340702
Small champion or giant rat/mouse?

Given the skulls on his belt, I'm assuming giant rat/mouse.

Unless he comes from an entire race of wee folk that he's systematically gutted.

>>49340470
>Still better than the 'best map we have', as you call it.

How can you call that black and white shit better than a colour map of the Warhammer World with important landmarks featured?

The Beast of Chaos map just has the Old World as a giant black splotch, for fucks sake.

>>49340358

Aww, Wolfenburg.

Anyone here play that MUD?

>>49340824
For scale, not detail.

>>giant black splotch
Because there's a lot of Beastmen there, duh? There's a legend that explains just that on the map.

>>49340860
>For scale, not detail.

Fair point. But the scale on that map doesn't mesh with any other scales of the setting. Seems a bit bigger than most other depictions, but your point stands.

>>49340918
Scale is kinda all over the map (lel). I suppose you can chalk it up to different artists doing different things, same with numerous conflicting instances of fluff because the people writing the army books and novels don't get together to coordinate. Even in the Time of Legends there are glaring inconsistencies. As for maps I just assume it's in-universe, one guy peddles a map which is completely different from his competitors.

>>49340470
That map's wrong, btw. They've got Cathay in the wrong place. It should be above the Kingdom of Ind, beneath the Eastern Steppes - where the Great Bastion is. They've placed the name of Cathay over the Hinterlands of Khuresh.

Wonder what else that map got wrong?

>>49340939
>I just assume it's in-universe,

Works for me.

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>>49340764

>>49340977
It's a sixth edition map and came out 13 years ago.

Compare these two maps
http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/maps/Map-Warhammer-World-1.jpg
http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/maps/Map-Warhammer-World-4.jpg

The second one being a 7th edition map which is when Cathay went from being a fluff anthill to a slightly bigger anthill and was moved so that it's closer to where real world China would be on a map. It's not so much wrong as it is out of date after someone at GW switched two names around.

As we know, writers say 'there are as many elves as the plot requires'. They can fight wars that last hundreds of years without long lasting lulls between battles, and can summon many armies easily 10,000 strong each. They are also described as fading away. Which got me thinking. Elves and dragons are linked, either through their creation mythos or due to the Sword of Khaine linking both races fates. Could it be that with each dragon slain the elven population gets a bit smaller? It could explain why they are still around, they can rebuild their population relatively quickly but hit a ceiling as per number of dragons still alive.

>>49341118
1. The second map you posted comes from 2000 (it's even there in the copywrite) and was in the 6th edition rulebook, IIRC.

2. Cathay has been in the same location as depicted in that second map since 1ed WFRP back in '86.

It's clearly a fuck-up.

>>49341338
It's not, I have the 6th edition rulebook. It's from the 7th edition, as noted by the Ghal-Maraz and shield. The copywrite is from 2000-2006, 2006 being the year 7th edition came out. The only portion of the 6th edition map that mentions Cathay is literally "----> to Cathay", it doesn't show it.

>>49341444

I've never played an edition older than 6th. It might not be in the rulebook, but it's definitely older than 2006.

And at any rate, the location of Cathay has been set since 1986. Maps swapping around Khuresh and Cathay are just wrong.

>>49340418
Looks good, I can just use a Lahmian model for a Necromancer, but don't Lahmians by default have Distracting?
Is the Court something to tarpit with? I assumed it was a hammer

Blade Of Red Thirst is bad? I'd think it would be a good buff for Grave Guard deathstars?

>>49342423
>Is the Court something to tarpit with? I assumed it was a hammer

No the skellies are, they crumble less if they're in range of your bsb. Also getting a large target bsb means you have that sweet 18" bubble

>Blade Of Red Thirst is bad? I'd think it would be a good buff for Grave Guard deathstars?

Raising them back is just as effective, plus the blade requires a vampire, with little to no protection. He might very well die to a few white lions or chaos warriors, Also he's really not that killy, so the blade might not do that much.

On the other hand the blade is great on something like a dude on a dragon, which is a goddamn bullet magnet and hard to invocate back to full wounds, plus the dragon is quite choppy too.

>Looks good, I can just use a Lahmian model for a Necromancer, but don't Lahmians by default have Distracting?

They do

Why can't wizards wear armour?

What is considered to be armour? When does a piece of equipment cross the line from 'thick clothing' to 'thin armour'?

Are there any notable exceptions aside from Chaos Sorcerers and Warrior-Priests?

>>49345185
chaos dorf sorcerers i guess?
supposedly armour would make spellcasting harder i guess

>>49345185

Isn't it just a fantasy trope/D&D tradition ?

>>49345185
Armor disturbs the flow of magic around the caster. Think of Irish fae and iron.
Only chaos armor ignores that, which is more or less a part of the wearer anyway.

>>49345743
>>49345185
Forgot something: Warrior priests are not mages, not in the way that they call uppon the winds of magic.
At least in older editions this was pretty clear, as their prayers could not blocked by your opponent.

>>49345784
yeah warrior priests arent wizards

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>>49339971
>mfw I am GMing wfrp
>mfw primadonna friend insists on starting fucking warcraft rpg based on 3.5 with same group
>mfw his gf starts her own sessions of warcraft 3.5 rpg
>mfw I now have to juggle free time with two games with inferior system

I guess not everyone can see how good it is.

>>49344882
Looked at the list, I can't take Fly and Wail because I need the Colossal upgrade in order to use the Mortarch model.

>>49345784
Fluffwise how do non-Chaos Gods, who are not Sigmar fit into the setting? I mean, it seems like there is a sort of roman/norse kind of thing going on with two pantheons of gods, but they sort of pale in comparison to the Dark Gods.

>>49346626
Warcraft can be fixed with realistic politics.The system still isn't as good, but realistic politics go a long way to improving Warcraft.

By that I mean, take the 1e WFRP ethos of politics... and transmit that into Warcraft. All of the best parts of World of Warcraft were the vanilla Defias Brotherhood and the "Grand Masquerade" (which Defias led into).

>>49346717
Depends on edition. Early editions, Chaos may just be all gods fucking with mortals. Mid editions, Chaos IS all gods becayse everything is Chaos and good or order is an illusion. Late editions, gods are just mortals who consumed a lot of magic AKA fluid Chaos. Which is what everyone from the old setting in AoS is.

>>49346717
Sigmar actually cares about his people.

Literally nobody means anything to a Chaos God. Champion, Daemon Prince, even their own Daemons which are forged from their own thoughts and urges mean nothing to a Chaos God.

Its a choice of having a nobody as your best friend, or going into the cutthroat and nonstop risk game of global politics on the side of one of two flavors of Pol Pot or two flavors of Kim Jong Un.

>>49339891
Reminder that Nagash fought the whole of the skaven race to a stalemate... In a cave with a box of scraps!

Quantity over quality is literally the worst way to fight undead.

>>49345185
>When does a piece of equipment cross the line from 'thick clothing' to 'thin armour'?
When you get substantial amounts of metal on it

Metal is a magic insulator, which makes it hard for wizards to channel the winds of magic, however, some metals can be enchanted so as not to disturb that badly the winds of magic, exceptions being inherently magical beings (like Vampires), Sorcerers of the Chaos Gods (because all Chaos Armor is magic by default) or Chaos Dwarfs, who are already magic insulators for being dwarfs + being the shitters behind Chaos Armors

Another exception may be the anything involving the Lore of Metal? not sure about this tho

>>49313681
the number depends on canon, with plenty of sources implying or out right stating that steam tanks are mass produced. the only 12 became more common as time went on

>>49347475
But why don't wizards use leather armour and wooden shields, or magical non-metal armour (if that exists)?

>>49347823
Leather armour still has metal in it, and You often need a staff or something to cast with. Wizards usually defend themselves with swords rather than shields, and need the other hand for staffs

>>49348095
it depends on the amount of metal. Think of it as an insulator. Having a big block of metal in your hand is alright because you are using the rest of your body to channel magic. Having large quantities of metal all over your body just makes it terrible for channeling magic.