Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

Kel'Thuzad best bro.

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F

Can the Nightborne run on Sunwell energy?

>>49323776
my guess is they can run on any energy provided its pure enough.
nightborne seem stupidly similar to Belfs in their being fantasy coke addicts.

Do you think we have any chance to see the Scarlet Crusade again ? They have always been my favorite but ever since the Monastery's and Stratholme's revamp, it just feels like they're treated as dummies for everyone to gang up on, corrupt and generally bully
I'm pissed off that there isn't a single time when there are friendly Scarlet Crusaders (especially in wotlk when it made the most sense, but same goes for any expac with demons)

>>49323630
>have you considered not sleeping?
it's actually work that's the problem, usually the threads hit bump limit consistently while I'm home and awake, but yesterday's was just a little bit too slow to justify putting up a new one before I left

>>49323838
the third part of the death knight class campaign is Bolvar going "guys, how the fuck is the Scarlet Crusade still a thing? Go kill them all and raise Whitemane" so it seems doubtful

you can come back from 3 dreadlords, but no one gets up after a Nazgrim force choke

>>49323838
>>49323939
Cataclysm fucked things up big time. Scarlet Crusade made sense when the Scourge invasion was relatively recent and the crusade was the only hope for the remaining human population against the undead. Then they get wiped out by murderhobos for killing the wrong kind of undead (this only makes sense for horde imo) and launch a suicidal attack on Northrend which fails miserably.

They couldn't just remove them though, they needed antagonists in that area, plus they already had established dungeons and the stuff in WotlK wouldn't make sense if the SC was removed. It's the same logic for the bullshit "there must always have a lich king". Sadly it's just the limitations of the game being an MMO. There's a good reason the lore in the RTS' is better.

My favourite thing about the Plaguelands is how it was a three-way war between Scourge, SC and Horde/Alliance/Argent. I liked Halo 2 for this reason - you were fighting both sides of the civil war in the Covenant, oftentimes literally at the same time.

>>49324094
>this only makes sense for horde imo
They were also fanatics who wanted to burn everyone who wasn't one of them and, if I remember right, hated all non-human races almost as much as the undead.
Still, most were surviving citizens of Lordaeron. And after seeing their kingdom get completely shrekked by the Scourge, I doubt any of them took it lightly when a fucking elf waltzed in and declared herself in charge.
And an elf that was part of the Scourge and uses Scourge magics and undead and plague to continue the same sort of shit the Scourge did.
Yeah, there's really no reason for the Alliance to have ever been against the Scarlet Crusade.

>>49324176
>Yeah, there's really no reason for the Alliance to have ever been against the Scarlet Crusade.
a Garithosesque hatred of non-human Alliance members could easily be extended to humans from Stormwind, considering that they did even less than Quel'thalas or Ironforge to stop the Scourge

>>49324160
>I liked Halo 2 for this reason - you were fighting both sides of the civil war in the Covenant, oftentimes literally at the same time.
Doomguard vs. Fel Guard Legion civil war when

>>49324200
Strormwinders were off rebuilding their own kingdom after getting it back from the Orcs. They really wouldn't have had much strength to give.
The Scourge in Lordaeron wasn't all that bad until its own prince turned on them and kicked the invasion into overdrive.

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>>49324176
>They were also fanatics who wanted to burn everyone who wasn't one of them and, if I remember right, hated all non-human races almost as much as the undead.

See, that doesn't make any real sense. Lordaeronians were cool with Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes etc. Even if they weren't, they had worked with them befroe and could likely put aside any differences in the face of an existential threat. Fear of zombie genocide is enough to put aside your "lol elves are dum".

I suspect the racism thing was put there specifically to force a conflict with the Alliance, because otherwise, why the hell should they care about a different kind of undead dying? SC policy wrt to undead seems more in line with Alliance policy than the Argent one, especially considering the Alliance rejected the Forsaken.

>>49324242
I remember that in Vanilla at least it was super rare to get groups of alliance heading up to fuck with the crusade.

So I blame the simplification of WoW for forcing crusade/alliance conflict than anything else tbqhwy fampire

>>49324242
weren't there even statues of dwarven and elven heroes in the monestary?

>>49323828
The potential for mana addiction is apparently just a racial thing for elves. Remember that high/blood elves are basically just pale night elves, night borne are slightly darker night elves. And naga are scaly elves and satyrs are furry elves and dryads are half deer half night elf. And every night elf centric zone has at least one colony of ghost elves.

Azeroth is lousy with elves.

>>49324242
>were cool with Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes etc
W>>49324322
>remember that in Vanilla at least it was super rare to get groups of alliance heading up to fuck with the crusade.
Wasn't on my server. Even though going there meant meeting up in Southshore, running (in foot, as we were all level 30-something) up through the lake, past Undercity, past the zeppelin tower and all the way to the Monastery only to die to the one dickhead 60 rogue who had nothing better to do than hang out by the entrances. And if anyone wanted to do Graveyard or Cathedral, you better hope someone remembered their damn key.

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He's gone guys. He actually did it. And before 45 too.

I'm happy for him.

>>49324573
no king rules forever, my son

>>49324227
>Strormwinders were off rebuilding their own kingdom after getting it back from the Orcs. They really wouldn't have had much strength to give.

They were definitely a force, even if not the juggernaut they eventually become in later WoW. I remember seeing mention in WC3 of how Stormwind had gotten its shit together and was an actual kingdom with an army now. Doubtful they could single-handedly drive off the Scourge, but they could definitely help in some way.

Being charitable, maybe the Scourge take-over was too sudden. So Varian couldn't muster any resistance in time or thought it would be pointless. He and Garithos never hooked up to fight the Scourge together because as far as Wrynn knew, Lordaeron was a goner and he had shit to deal with on his end.

Being cynical though, Stormwind received a LOT of refugees. I expect manpower was something desperately needed and helped Stormwind deal with its internal problems and even expand. Helping Lordaeron hurts Stormwind because if that kingdom still exists, it draws away all the manpower that Stormwind needs to deal with its own problems. The downfall of Lordaeron makes Stormwind the most powerful human kingdom and the de facto leader of the Alliance; they actually gain a lot from the fall of Lordaeron.

>The Scourge in Lordaeron wasn't all that bad until its own prince turned on them and kicked the invasion into overdrive.

The problem was the plague. They'd lost one or more major cities and while the short term threat had been dealt with thanks to the quick thinking of Arthas, there was always the possibility of the exact same situation occuring.

It might have been a lot bloodier but until they could cure the plague, the downfall of Lordaeron was likely inevitable. Just a matter of how long it takes really.

>>49324652
Helping masses of refugees doesn't make you stronger since the vast majority of them are children, women, and elderly. Basically all the people who can't fight.
Same thing happened to Lordaeron after Stormwind got wrecked in the First War. And starting with the Plague, would you really mobilize your army for a disease outbreak on the other side of the continent? Medical supplies, sure. But Varian wouldn't have had reason to get whatever rag-tag army he could muster together up and running to Lordaeron to deal with a disease unless King Terenas asks for it. By the time it becomes an issue that would make it worth mobilizing the army for, Terenas is dead and Arthas is rampaging across the tattered remnants of his kingdom.
And refugees are flooding south to Stormwind taking up valuable resources and space meaning the Stormwind army is still needed at home.

>>49323776
Apparently the Nightwell is extra refined because it was made with a Pillar of Creation.

Also its not really running out of power, that rascal Gul'dan is cutting off the supply as an extra control on the Nightborne. oh what won't that card do?

>>49324829
>Helping masses of refugees doesn't make you stronger since the vast majority of them are children, women, and elderly. Basically all the people who can't fight.

Nah there were definitely a lot of fighting age men among the refugees. The ones doing the fighting were the trained soldiers, maybe some militia types as well. Without equipment and training, a soldier is useless. There's no way Lordaeron could equip anywhere near ALL of their fighting age males when the kingdom falls so suddenly. Without the ability to fight, the only option is to run.

>Same thing happened to Lordaeron after Stormwind got wrecked in the First War. And starting with the Plague, would you really mobilize your army for a disease outbreak on the other side of the continent? Medical supplies, sure. But Varian wouldn't have had reason to get whatever rag-tag army he could muster together up and running to Lordaeron to deal with a disease unless King Terenas asks for it. By the time it becomes an issue that would make it worth mobilizing the army for, Terenas is dead and Arthas is rampaging across the tattered remnants of his kingdom.

But is the solution to sit by and do nothing? Certainly it seems to have worked out in the end in Stormwind's favour, but you're acting like Stormwind was much weaker than they were. They're incredibly strong in WoW, which is only a few years after this, though some of that can be attributed to Lordaeron refugees.

There's a good reason for intervention: they're a threat. They've destroyed Lordaeron and chances are they're coming for you eventually. The choice is to sit there and let the Scourge grow stronger, or attack asap, help refugees escape, link up with local forces that were still resisting (Scarlet Crusade, Garithos) and do what you can to at least contain them.

cont.

>>49325020
cont.

There was in fact so much resistance that during the timeline of WoW, the Scourge failed at wiping out the remnants of Lordaeron in the form of the Scarlet Crusade. They weren't as strong as they appeared, mainly thanks to Illidan and the Forsaken.

>>49324242
I think the idea is that they blamed Stormwind for, well, surviving.

>complete the Jarl of Jandivk quest line
>Toryl walks to the fire
>CITIZENS OF JANDVIK
if Khadgar needs to start consuming disciples like Illidan to get good at his meme magic, I know where to start

>>49325042
They might dislike Stormwind for being less than helpful, but they're complete idiots to attack possible allies. Their real hatred is the undead and attacking other humans helps the undead win. Let's be real here, Scarlet Crusaders being hostile to the Alliance is a game convenience. The justification of them being racists is just a post-facto explanation.

>>49325107
>The justification of them being racists is just a post-facto explanation.
Just like the nazis were unjustly demonised so the allies didn't have to face up to their own atrocities, yeah.

>>49325020
I always figured Stormwind did get involved, just not in spots the players saw because we really followed the Horde and the Night Elves after Arthas's fall.

>>49325020
>there were definitely a lot of fighting age men among the refugees
[Citation needed]

>>49325020
Stormwind wasn't a superpower by the time WoW started. It wasn't the de facto capital of the Alliance until Varian came back in Cata.

>>49323630
>Warcraft
>lore

>>49325263
Still more lore that is fresh than
>WHFB

Are the Aldrachi Warblades and Twinblades of the Deceiver stronger weapons than the Twin Blades of Azzinoth in lore?

Is Illidan let loose a whistle and a ''daaaayum'' when he sees the PC Demon Hunter with those?

>>49325183
There's at least some at Southshore. Although some of those guards are women, true. I'm not sure if that's a game convenience or soldiers in WoW are supposed to have women in their ranks.

>>49325480
It wasn't until WoW that armies got diversified like that. It could also be a nod to the various armies' bepletion of manpower from three major wars across roughly one generation.

>>49323838
The Scarlet Crusade cannot die.
>Survived Vanilla
>Survived travelling to Northrend and becoming the Onslaught
>Survived the Cataclysm
>Survived Mist of Pandaria

Can they survive the DK class campaign?
Probably.

>>49325147
There's nothing in-game to suggest that, so if they did it was incredibly minor.

>>49325245
I think you're right, I can't remember there being a clear capital city of the Alliance, it really was much more of an actual Alliance in vanilla instead of this High King crap.

>>49325529
I think the bigger question is if they can survive the incoming rush of Retadins all vying for the Corrupted Ashbringer skin. The only thing holding them back now if the Artifact Research gating.

So I've got a question, that I'm sure the answer is just retcon, or someone not keeping track of their own lore, but wasnt the Broken Isles underwater, like, forever? My recollection of events was, it sank in the sundering. Gul'Dan raised it in WC2, died, and it sank again. Then Illidan brought it back up in TFT, and the night elf campaign is all surprised to find this random island again. Then Illidan sunk the battleship AGAIN, trying to kill Maiev. Now AU Gul'Dan once again brought the place back? And now it's totally inhabited, and has been since forever?

>>49325537
In Vanilla, all the Alliance players congregated in Ironforge because that was where the auction house was.
It also made sense that the fortified dorf city that had never fallen to a siege be the capital of the new Alliance.

The high king thing is to give the Alliance a singular leader the way the Horde has always had a Warchief. It doesn't really make sense, but at least with Varian, you could use the excuse that he had the force of personality to make ancients like Velen, Tyrande and Malfurion follow his lead.

It doesn't quite work with little Anduin.

>>49325614
Partial retcon, the only part raised by Gul'dan is the one island with the Tomb on it, the rest have been there. I don't believe it sank again after his death, Illidan just sailed there.

>>49324354
I think it's actually something they inherited from their troll ancestry. Trolls seem to be highly susceptible to genetic mutations based on outside stimuli. Since elves are basically trolls that mutated from being oversaturated by the energies emanating from the Well of Eternity, it stands to reason that elves are highly susceptible to genetic changes based on magical stimuli.

>>49325614
By retcon, it seems that the broken isles have always been there, it's just the island with the tomb itself is the one that sinks and rises.

Still doesn't explain how the giant elf city like Suramar could be completely missed by Prime Gul'dan, Doomhammer's Horde, Illidan, Illidan's lackeys, and Malfurion and Tyrande and Maiev. Oh, and the Wardens' Vault where they store all their prisoners is conveniently on those new remote isles that have always been there.

Actually, that does kinda make sense that you'd put your worst scum as far away from you capital as possible.

>>49325614
The whole deal with the sinking and raising was only with the Tomb of Sarferas, which is the Broken Shore. Everything was still there, just

>Suramar cut itself off from everything. Nelfs knew it was there anyway
>Farondis and such were still ghosts, probably didn't want to be bothered.
>Vrykul were doing their own shit
>Tauren doing their own shit.

Keep in mind, during the TFT campaign, the only factions to go to the Tomb were Naga and Nelfs, who already knew everything they needed to about the Broken Isles. The only non-elf there was Drak'thul, the orc hermit, who's actually on the Broken Shore now chilling out.

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>>49324573
>Gone off to whiteer pastures

>>49325675
At that point I'm pretty sure Gul'dan was considerably weakened, and that was the whole point of his trip to the Tomb. He probably didn't care about a city with a bubble over it.

And Tyrande and Co. still probably knew about Suramar, they just didn't bother going to it because they wouldn't get any help from them.

>>49325736
Nah, Maiev made it clear she thought Suramar had sunk beneath the waves. But the Tomb of Sargeras is on a separate island from central Suramar, so I bet they just couldn't see the main islands, and didn't know Suramar had survived

>>49325637

I remember the Tides of War novel having that part, and mentioning as soon as all the Stormreavers died, Maim and Rend sailed away as it was sinking again. Bunch of demons flew out of the tomb, and the orcs just kinda fucked off after.

>>49325842
Excpet now, there's been a druid settlement in val'sharah for ages apparently.

>>49325425
Probably. Illidan's twinblades are ultimately just some random weapons he looted from the corpse of some doomguard (called Azzinoth, hence the name). It's somewhat strange we don't see any demons wielding similar weapons, because they originally come form the Legion (they became the signature DH weapon because Illidan had them, and the demon hunters either were trained by Illidan in the fighting style he developed which used such weapon, or just wanted emulate Illidan and got weird double-bladed swords just like he had).

The DH artefacts, on the other hand, are a pair of DH warglaives empowered by one of the Legionlords himself, and the weapons of the champion of a race so badass they killed literally millions of demons before Sargeras himself showed up and personally wiped them out.

>>49325869
Yeah, it ain't perfect. On one hand, maybe Maiev just didn't know about the settlement, since she spends most of hertime uunderground guarding prisoners and raping Illidan while Naisha watches.

>>49325621
>It also made sense that the fortified dorf city that had never fallen to a siege be the capital of the new Alliance.

Actually, it has fallen before; Orcs owned all of Khaz Modan, including both Ironforge and Gnomeregan, at the start of the Second War.

>>49325842
I think we have to remember again that the geography of WoW isn't necessarily canon. There's considerably more distance between the Tomb of Sargeras and Suramar than a 100 metre span, it's entirely reasonable that Maiev would've ridden a boat through 20 kilometres of the Broken Isles and not realised she was boring through solid rock because she knew Illidan was ahead of her somewhere.

>>49326017
IIRC, they never actually got into Ironforge. They conquered all the area surrounding it, forcing the dwarves to just bar the gates and hope the orcs leave before they run out of supplies, but they never breached the city itself.

>>49326017
No they didn't. They besieged it twice, but never got through the gates.

The hunter class campaign and hall are both so boring, which I guess is fitting considering that MM and BM are two of the most boring specs in the game. Seeing Sylvanas' sister did remind me, is there an estimate on how many non blood high elves are still kicking around? Did they finally get totally wiped out or converted?

>>49325644
I totally blacked this part of the lore out, thank you for reminding me.

>>49326148

Last I heard there's a few thousand high elves still out and kicking.

>>49326148
Aren't Night Elf Mages just Highborne?

>>49326204
Fucking traitors need to fuck off and die

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>49325978
>a race so badass they killed literally millions of demons before Sargeras himself showed up and personally wiped them out.
So another Azeroth but less successfull? I still have no idea why can't the normal weapons work against the legion, they were just fine back in BC and WoD.

>>49323776
>Without moonlight, without sun light

Reminder that the Nightwell wasn't just a source of magic, it literally fed the Shal'dorei more like food and water. The Sunwell only empower the Quel/Sin'dorei

If you look at the degenerating process, you can tell the difference:
>blood elves feel sick
>get used to it by having strong will power
>controlled consumption of other magic source just enough to not be sick
>uncontrolled consumption of other magic source, creating an insatiable hunger, become wretched

>nightborne fatigue so hard they can't stand without drinking a whole bottle of arcwine
>become full skellington, survive by constantly eating dried up mana dust
>starved to the point they lost sanity and become zombies

While blood elves have choices on what to do with their addiction, nightborne is one day down. Blood crack elves turn because they fed too much on mana, night crack elves turn because they can't get enough mana.

The biology between night/blood elves and nightborne is probably very different. The Sunwell can probably slow down the deterioration process, maybe even keep nightfallens from becoming withered, but don't think it can keep a normal nightborne healthy.

>>49326204
>Get 90% of your population eradicated by undead
>Most of what's left gets addicted to demon crack

Sucks to be a high elf. They'll be extinct in not too long.

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So do you think they'll actually kill off Sylvanas this expac?

>Inb4 Kosak waifu memes

>>49326596
I hope not. Not because 'waifu' shit, but simply because we've been bleeding racial leaders like crazy these past couple expansions. I'm hoping they'll be able to tell an actual story with her.

>>49326427
Fuck the high elves. Most people, including Blizz, forget that Sin'dorei was a name given to the highborne of Quel'thalas by their prince (who has full authority) before going rogue, and before the use of fel magic. Blood elves were a thing before even fucking Garithos. The only reason for any highborne to remain Quel'dorei is these fucking traitors value human cock more than their own people.

>>49326646
And? We are reaching the end of the story, of course major characters start dying and Sylvanas if any should be on the list of "players get to kill"

>>49326674
"Because they saw their prince dressing in blood red and swearing revenge on the world and remembering that old rant and where it goes."

>>49326706
Calling themselves blood elves was in honour of those who died to the scourge.

Calling yourself a high elf is like personally desecrating the corpse of every elf who fell in the third war.

It shows you don't give a shit about your people who were murdered.

>>49326701
As a longtime Sylvanas fan, so long as they end her story in a satisfying way, I'm happy, even if it means she's a raid boss. So long as it's well done, I won't complain.

>>49326888
Yet another reason why Vareesa is a human loving, cock sucking shit.

>>49326596
There's literally no one to take her place.

The Forsaken are pretty much '"The guys who help Sylvannas''

>>49326900
>So long as it's well done
Well done, Tirion "Felflame Barbecue" style?

>>49326930
Well she did free them and give them purpose

>>49326930
They seem to be bigging up Nathanos Blightcaller this expansion.

>>49326947
Probably better than that. So long as she doesn't live, getting a faux trial, escape, then cause a shitty expansion, I'll be fine. I'd actually be ok with it if Alleria, the sister she looked up to and loved, delivered the killing blow. Alleria is married to Mr.Light, Turalyon. She probably has a hard on for the Light to. If she sees the monster that has taken her little sister's place, she may feel the obligation to put her soul to rest not realizing that her soul is bound for super-hell and she will never know rest, no matter what anyone does.

>>49326930
There's always her boytoy, Nathanos. He seems well respected enough by the Forsaken.

>>49326701
>end of the story
>anytime soon

The ride never ends. The assault on Argus is gonna be in ~50 years, so unless they make a cut and give us wc4 or wow2 we'll see expansions for as long as activision remains the festering tumor of blizzard

>>49327037
The only problem with that idea is that Nathanos is even more loyal to Sylvie than your average Forsaken. He has always played the part of #2, and doesn't seem interested in leading. His biggest interest is making her vision realized. So if she does die and he takes over, he will still just be trying to fulfill her vision and maybe even try to resurrect her.

I think the best option for the Forsaken is to have a high council style of government post-Sylvanas.

>>49327037
But Nathanos' entire character is literally ''yo i fucking LOVE SYLVANNAS. Adventurer get your useless ass over here and help me do stuff for Sylvannas''

As I said,all Forsaken are defined by servitude to Sylvannas,you can't really replace her.

>>49326231
Yes, at least originally. Nigth elves only got mages in Cataclysm when some of the highborne from Dire Maul joined the regular night elves, and they let them because with everything going to shit because Deathwing, having any extra help on your side would be welcome (the fact that they've spent quite a lot of time allied with races that do openly practice magic might've also softened their view on "arcane=bad").

PC mages are probably night elves trained by the highborne in magic, considering it doesn't really make sense for a 10 000 years old highborne arcanist to start at lvl.1 in a random village in Teldrassil.

>>49327141
And now that Velen is super pissed, does that mean we can have Draenei become Eredar and play as Warlocks?

>>49326973
>>49327037
Nathanos is a psychopath. For all the bad shit Sylvanas has done, he would be so much worse. He really can't be allowed to lead.

>>49327169
Obviously.

>>49327205
This is also true. Nathanos is straight up psychotic, even moreso than Sylvanas. Literally, I think she's the only thing reigning him in, and she often doesn't even do that. He's her head attack dog, or the tip of her spear.

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ILLIDARI

WE ARE BREAKING THE CONDITIONING

>>49325621
Well, it makes a small amount of sense given that they explained, recently, that the "High King" title is really more like Turalyon's "Supreme Commander" title. Why they didn't use Supreme Commander is beyond me. Maybe they were busy playing Skyirm?

>>49325869
Not to mention that Koda Steelclaw, one of Val'shara's Archdruids, is a woman, and mentions that she has slumbered for centuries.

You never see her as a night elf, though. Maybe she's just a bear.

>>49328126
That's funny.

A druid who is already an animal.

>that Stormheim intro
I see Blizz still hasn't figured out how to make the Horde lose.

>>49328319
Stormheim outro?

>>49328126
Is she Sir Bearington's wife?

>>49328319
>Says the Horde doesn't lose
Niggah, the Forsaken lost almost their entire fleet to the Skyfire. Fuck you and your bias-vision.

>>49328478
Wasn't it like 4 ships? Last I checked the Forsaken had more than that.

>>49328319
Genn makes Sylvanas waste a ton of resources in order to accomplish a grand total of nothing, so it is a very slight Alliance victory in the end.

>>49328403
>>49328564
>Genn comes out of worgen cryostasis to give Sylvanas an extra five minutes of fame
great great great

>>49328478
>four ships
>the majority of the fleet
Not even you could believe this.

>>49328505
That's the number of ships rendered in game. In the lore, is says she brought the majority of the fleet. Then Genn wins at the end. Seriously, I don't get why people never feel that the Horde never loses. Is it just a sense of Alliance victimization or faction loyalty?

>>49328686
She brought the majority to stormheim sure, hut I don't think they manage to blow up any others besides those 4, especially not woth the skyshield which seems to do fuck all other than get blown up. Admittedly, I rushed through that set of quests because I found the RvB stuff retarded.

>>49328686
My main problem is the tone of Alliance questing since Cata. It usually takes the form of "Despite your best efforts to defend against hostile action, the day was lost." Whereas Horde questing has become "Thanks to your efforts, we smashed the enemy!"

>>49328827
The tone of Horde questing has been "watch us try to not tear ourselves apart while fending off the Alliance" since Garrosh.

There have been losses on both sides. The Alliance has gotten to invade two Horde capitals since WoW dropped. That's a pretty big deal.

>>49328505
It's still 3 ships, including their captains (two killed, one captured), plus a shitload of batriders, versus Alliance losing one airship (with the captain and most of the other important crew surviving). Horde loses one airship an expansion, so it's not like those things are particularly irreplaceable, even if one is in all likelyhood more expensive that one ship.

>>49328827
While I don't recall every zone, I don't think that's entirely fair. Redridge and Swamp of Sorrows both had Alliance victories, even if Redridge also had Keeshan's supposed sacrifice.

>>49328928
Yes, 3 ships, not the majority of the fleet. Plus, that airship seemed to have far more general crew than the other ships. Regardless, anon seems to be exagerrating facts which undermines his points. I don't care who won that conflict because I found the conflict existing to be stupid.

>>49328986
>Genn shot first

>>49329026
Yes, he certainly did. I find dislike him for that, though I dislike Rogers more since she in no way had to follow orders from Genn, but decided that provoking the forsaken fleet with our one airship was a good idea.

>>49329107
I haven't played through the alliance side yet, but did Genn even have a reason to attack besides "muh revenge"?
I know that in the end he stops sylvanas from enslaving the valkyr but did he know that's what she was there for from the beginning or did he literally attack what would've looked like a forsaken attack force going to fight the demons?

>>49329107
Let me be one of the first to say that I enjoy the faction conflict. That is all.

>>49329153
They assume Sylvanes was with that part of the fleet, so he and Rogers decide that it's worth the risk of attacking if it means killing her. But no, he had no real reason other than revenge, and Anduin's explicit orders that you receive via letter to the PC is to only engage if neccessary.

>>49329174
Good on you. I don't enjoy it much, but Stormheim just rubs me the wrong way and pisses me off something fierce.

>>49329153
>For Varian!
>For Gilneas!
>For! My! SON!

It was all "muh revenge," yeah, but if /anyone/ is justified in doing that it's Genn. Guy's outlived Llane Wrynn, Anduin Lothar, and Varian Wrynn and he'll probably still be up and kicking when High King Anduin takes the fight to Sargeras. But to spend all of that time without his only son, who was murdered right in front of him?

Someone once said that no father should have to bury his son.

>>49329153
Anduin tells him "only engage if necessary." And both he and Rogers are like "Oh, trust us, it'll be necessary."

Genn has a maaaajor vengeance boner for Sylvanas.

>>49328159
I got no idea, but considering that ladies couldn't into druid a few centuries ago...

>>49328425
Quite possibly. Quite probably.

Rolled 15 (1d20)

Question. Why do they lose their noses when they go full wretch?

>>49329464
As does Rogers, as she is from Southshore. Anduin knew what he was doing.

>>49329488
The further from troll an elf becomes, the smaller their nose becomes.

>>49324573
no homo, but he's pretty handsome.

>>49329434
Technically, Theoden said "No parent should have to bury their child." But yeah, same idea.

Also technically, she was trying to kill Genn. I mean, that doesn't make it any better, but still. Just thought I'd point it out.

>>49329464
But when will they fuck? I need this.

>>49329825
Never.

You don't really think Genn is deranged enough to sleep with his son's murderer, do you?

Plus, I'm pretty sure "down there" is as dead as the rest of Sylvanas' nerve endings.

Why is Cho in stormheim, and why does he pretend to be a vrykul?

It's kinda weird being told to slaughter someone by the guy who've been preaching peace for the last few years

>>49327354
Oh my god Illidan

>>49330361
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.
It's really disconcerting.

>>49330361
Limited voice actors.

>>49330511
Almost as bad as SW: TOR's overuse of Steve Blum. He voices damn near every other NPC.

>>49324573
I'm gonna miss him. The Horde he made in WC3-Wrath was something I feel we'll never get back.

I was also hoping he'd stay on for that Kids' book he was making with Greg "Gargoyles" Weisman. That really seemed to capture the spirit of awe and wonder that WoW had for me when I first started playing.

He IS staying on as a VA for Green Jesus and presumably some generic Orcs.

>>49330593
>>49330442
>>49330511
>>49330593
They've only used him for those two roles as far as I am aware.

>>49326596
But with Metzen retired Kosak has even more power. I think the only people who can overrule him are Afrasabi and Morheim and Morheim's just a businessman.

>>49329107
I thought there was a cutscene with one more airship shown. Was the Skyfire really the last of them? (It may have been the stormheim cutscenes I saw were out of order and placed the Horde-PoV on the skyfire ambush at the end.)

>>49329464
>>49329522
He even told Jaina they'd bring the Horde to account eventually. He's more than willing to have them brought down but he doesn't want it interfering with the main war effort.

Also I'd like an AU where Sylvy actually sends a val'kyr to nab Varian so this RvB nonsense doesn't get so crazy.

>>49330805
>Also I'd like an AU where Sylvy actually sends a val'kyr to nab Varian so this RvB nonsense doesn't get so crazy.
>Sylvanas
>giving a fuck about Alliance
Yeah, no.

>>49330511
>>49330721
But... why did they make him a vrykul? Sure, it's also an old wise man, but he's still a viking dude who commands you to kill.

He could've been a druid or a highmountain shaman. Or even better: A teacher in the school of aszuna. Escalating nelf college parties when?

>>49330891
Mostly because "Hey that guy just soloed a massive fel reaver:, he's probably useful"

>>49330961
Because it's not like Cho is that VA's only role, he was also Hondo in TCW, a devil-may-care Weequay pirate captain.

>>49330998
>Mostly because "Hey that guy just soloed a massive fel reaver:, he's probably useful"
That means he's too cool for a petty bitchcunt like Sylvanas.

>>49330891

Sylvanas would save Varina for one reason: undead husbando. She was going to muder her own sister, after all.

I've played Horde since Vanilla and I can justify a lot of her actions, but she lost my support there.

>>49330805
>Was the Skyfire really the last of them?
Not to my knowledge. I meant that the rest of the fleet that the Skyfire was supporting was further out. She says as much after the crash if you talk to her, but she decided to attack without back up.

>Sylvy saves Varian
The problem there is that not only would one val'kyr been ganked faster than Vol'jin, Sylvanas had no way of knowing that Varian was still there. They left before the gunship got called in, and were presumably busy fleeing to their own boats.

>>49331252
The Valk doesn't have to go ALL the way down, just do a quick snatch and grab.

It may not be feasible but I'd certainly like it more.

>>49331467
No. It's a stupid idea.
Fuck off.

>>49323838
There were a few Scarlets at Tirion's funeral, and I think I've seen a few in the pews at the ol' order hall, so they've probably been absorbed into the Silver Hand.

>>49331467
The problem is, he's surronded by demons, impaled on two spears and gul'dan is fairly close by the entire fight. And, again, there's no reason Sylvanas would even know to send a val'kyr to help.

>>49331228
>She was going to murder her own sister, after all.
When was that??

>>49329976
But, it's so hot, though.

Hate/vengeance sex is the hottest. One of them won't survive.

>>49330891
Sylvanas gives a fuck about anyone and anything that is useful to her. The Alliance as an ally is a useful during a Legion invasion. It makes sense.

>>49331467
Did you forget about the hundreds of felbats swarming the skys? They cleared out when the reaver dropped, but it doesn't take long to fly back in. It would be a slim chance at best.

Then again, I'd pay to watch Sylvanas mind-dominate a felbat she snatched on a pass, and then ride it into the fray to rescue Varian. Imagine the fallout on the internet.

>>49332218
Warcrimes. It was a terribly written Christie Golden scene. Vareesa wanted to join Sylvanas in the Undercity and rule with her there. Sylvanas was like "yeah, that'd be swell." But she also knew the Forsaken would never accept a living leader, so she secretly planned to quietly and painlessly kill her, then raise her as Forsaken.

>>49331228
That book in general was just...not the best. It might get soft-retconned like a lot of Knaak's works. Generally, I take what happens in the books with a grain of salt, since each author interprets a script a bit differently so there tends to be shenanigans and inconsistency.

>>49332406
Golden gets stuck writing hackeneyed transition books so it's sometimes hard to tell how much is her and how much is not.

I'd like to see her write something that ISN'T stuck as an expansion prequel for once.

>>49332326
She's never given a fuck about anyone but herself. Ever.

>>49332437
You missed my point. Her giving a fuck about others is ultimately selfish. Are you useful to her goals? Yes? Than she gives a fuck. If that weren't the case, then she wouldn't be leader for the Forsaken or hanging around at all for more than 3 seconds.

Don't let your Sylvanas hate blind you to the facts.

>>49332467
Why are yous so fixated on this stupid fanfiction bullshit that she would do anything to benefit the Alliance by saving their leader?
Thinking that it would benefit her? That's even fucking stupider.

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>>49332310
It'll never happen, anon. Just accept it.

Hope is an illusion, after all.

>>49332495
Uh, because literally every instance of her helping someone as the Banshee Queen is a reflection of this mindset? Dumbass?

She helps people when they are useful to her, because it ultimately helps her in the long run. She is selfishly motivated. If she wasn't willing to work with or help the Alliance in the face of a greater threat, she wouldn't have done exactly that at the Broken Shore.

>>49332556
But when will C'thun shove all of his throbbing tentacles into Yogg-Saron's waiting, drooling mouths?

>>49324573
Yeah, I bet he still manages to write a nice dindu nothin happy ending for Sylvanas though. Sure he wrote some good stuff back in the days, but boy, did he fuck that up.

>>49329976
>You don't really think Genn is deranged enough to sleep with his son's murderer, do you?
There's a difference between "sleep with" and "violently rape the secretly willing," anon.

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>>49332661
>thinking Sylvanas is Kerrigan

Anon, please.

>>49330627
Waiiiiit, Metzen was Thrall's VA?

Fuck that explains a lot.

>>49332753
he's Thrall, Nefarian, most of the Terran units in Starcraft, and someone else in WoW that I forget

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>>49332590
Never, because 10-25 people killed them both.

>>49332666
I've heard of shipping, but come on, Satan. You're being ridiculous.

>>49325529
In the Priest Campaign the Scarlet Onslaught is still going strong.

>>49332884

C'mon, anon. It's a perfect match made in Helheim.

>>49333030
>Helheim.
>the new Stormheim raid in 7.1 will have 3 fights
>one is confirmed to be a second fight against Odyn
>another is killing Helya
>yfw the third is Alliance players killing Sylvanas and Horde players killing Greymane

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>>49333363
>killing another Greymane

>>49333363
First is Odyn then Cerberus thing than Helya.

>>49333363
Sylvanas is living on borrowed time and has no more reset buttons. If she goes down, she's going to Super Hell.
Genn has nothing to lose, but won't let himself die unless he takes Sylvanas with him.

>>49333363
>>49333482
>Killing Sylvanas a 4th time
I mean come on. She's just going to find a way to come back again.

>>49333621
shit who would be the new warchief then? Saurfang? Baine? will Lor'Themar finally step up and stop being a lazy bitch?
plz tell me we don't end up with Gallyjew? seriously, if gallyjew makes a run for it the horde will probably turn into a corperatist hellzone in a week, robbing the alliance blind for shekels.

>>49333690
Saurfang it too old for this shit. Baine would make the most sense.
Lor'Themar was ready to join the Alliance again. Can't trust him.
Can't trust GallyJew either, since all he cares about is gold. Also needs a unique fat goblin model that looks like all his art and his giant face in the mountain. Fucking Blizzard, it's been 6 fucking years.

>>49333690
>will Lor'Themar finally step up and stop being a lazy bitch?
Please. Lor'themar has even less loyalty to the Horde than Sylvanas. He was actually in secret talks with Varian to join the Alliance before Jaina did that...thing in Dalaran. But he personally feels no loyalty to the Horde. They way they developed Sylvanas in the Broken Shore cinematic, she now seems to care more about the Hordies than the belf.

>>49333748
>>49333749
actually what would make sense since thrall has pretty much lost all his super special snowflake retardation to tie him down, could he end up back as warchief again? i mean its kinda sad with him sorta standing outside the shaman portal crying like a bitch.

>>49333782
Now that his VA isn't on a salary as VP they'd have to hire him on contract.

>>49326930
Gul'dan.

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>>49333967
As much as I'd love seeing smuggest Orc leading the Horde, it just wouldn't fly.
They could go back to Draenor and grab AU Grom. But the Horde might be a little iffy about another Hellscream taking charge. Granted, this one learned to play nice with non-Orcs in the end.

>>49334034
His neck should have learned to play nice with a chopping block. If anything, bring in Durotan.

>>49329174

I don't mind it, when it fits the overal expansion, but this time around it feels like there's no place for it. MoP was the last time or felt justified. Since then, we all did some interdimensional time travel, and worked together to stop AU Horde. Cool. Ashran was there, and I still don't quite get why we were at war over it. Now, the literal apocalypse is here, we're all sailing out our best to the front lines, teaming up classes together, and yet despite all this, it's time for a sneak attack bombing assassination? If it aren't for the immediate presence of the Legion, I'd say Genn is justified, and the shore storyline is perfect fuel for conflict again. But there's still this whole world we gotta save. Let's put the swords away for now, yeah?

>>49334102
>Let's put the swords away for now, yeah?

No.
A Forsaken victory is just as bad as a Legion victory.
And you can't stand with people if you don't trust them.

>>49332435
>writes arthas
>changes him from a prince fully driven by his duty who pursues it to a bitter end. to a mopey retard who doesn't want kids and cries about his horse

WC3 arthas = Book Stannis

Golden arthas = TV stannis.

>>49332775
Ragnaros, few other random bosses, some orcs. Couple Vrykul in Stormheim. He actually does a HUGE amount of the VA work. Garrosh's VA was also Rakeesh in the Exodar scenario. Like, not even hiding it. Same delivery and everything in his lines. Made me hate him even more.

>>49334034
>Granted, this one learned to play nice with non-Orcs in the end.

Thats a good thing why? The fuck happened to the faction conflict? Is this game now nothing but "lets join hands and fight evil!", what kind of pussy ass shit is that?.

>>49334251
Ok, Genn.

>>49334267
>He actually does a HUGE amount of the VA work.
That's an understatement if I ever saw one. The TFT Rexxar campaign is mostly Metzen having a chat with himself.

>>49334282
Stop being a faggot.
Why would you let the Forsaken do what they want, which is ti blight your shit up?
Why is getting reamed to death by a zombie preferable to getting reamed to death by a demon?

>>49334102
Honestly, I think the racism and bad-blood ingrained between the Alliance and the Horde is so severe, another 30 years of attempted peace could go by in-universe with only the slightest results. Many races straight up hate each other. The faction war will always be present until the hatred between the factions abates.

>>49334303
Because he can fap to sylvanas' cold blue cunt more

>>49334303
Because there's no chance the Forsaken would win. There's a very good chance the Legion could win. The Forsaken have a vested interest in maintaining their alliances. The Legion couldn't give a shit if every soul on Azeroth burns.

Not saying the Forsaken are good and noble, as a matter of fact they're pretty bad, but they are nowhere near as bad as the Legion. Many Forsaken are actually pretty swell fellows and willing to work with others.

>>49334419
>he
I'm a woman.

I fuck dick.

Besides, Tyrande has the superior cunt.

>>49334442
>I'm a woman.
No you're not, Bruce.

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>Vol'jin did nothing as Warchief and died at the start of Leigon
>Apparently Varian died as well
>Sylvanas became warchief instead of Baine
>Garrosh died in a FUCKING CUTSCENE

Where were you when WoW jumped the shark?

>>49334743
That would imply that the shark was ever not jumped.

Honestly, the part I hate most about Sylvanas being Warchief is that nothing she's done so far has been dependent on that. Granted, it's only the launch content, but her storyline on the Broken Isles could easily exist with Vol'jin as Warchief and not change at all.

I'm going to voice a controversial opinion.

I am optimistic about Sylvanas as Warchief.

That is all.

>>49335045
>Elf
>Good warchief

Nice joke.

There is nothing wrong with saying For the Azeroth

>>49326674
Highborne and high elves aren't the same thing.

>>49335045
Lorewise has she done anything beyond dooming her own people to a slow extinction? I really ownly saw the buttery isles and genn greymane cutscenes

>>49333690
I'd like to see Baine actually start doing shit. But seriously The Horde is running out of race leaders and faction leaders in general. I don't even know who would be in charge of the Trolls now that Vol'jin is dead.

Also out of curiosity couldn't Eitrigg be Warcheif?

>>49334253
Arthas has always been a retard kid trying to make dad proud and then maskerading petty goals as noble ones which is why he got corrupted so easily.

>>49335215
She did have Putress and Varimathras take the fall for jumping the gun on her "gas the living" plan.
And then she gassed the Alliance towns of Southshore and Hearthglen and then Gilneas.

>>49335340
Isn't he older than Saurfang

>>49335491
>always
Christie golden fuck off.

>>49335501
Based

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>>49335129

>>49335501
>Sylvanas knew about the rebellion and let it happen so she could get the Horde and Alliance to clean up all disloyal Forsaken and Varimathras.
>Pretty soon, some of the newly raised Forsaken will have another coup
>She'll let it happen again to weed them out and make herself look like the victim
>She let the EB steal Koltira, so as to rally support against them within her ranks
>The voices that whispered her name to Vol'jin were actually her val'kyr in the Shadowlands
So many inside jobs, so little time.

Like anon said >>49335805

>>49335215
Lorewise, she built up one of the most powerful and militarized kingdoms from a bunch of depressed zombies and some ruins in just 10 years. That's one helluva task. If nothing else, she's a damn good administrator.

>>49336090
So hitler with elf tits?

>>49336164
If Hitler was successful and if Sylvanas was an intolerant racist, yeah sure, why not?

>>49334102
>Ashran
so the Alliance had a lead on some abandoned superweapon/magic shit in those ruins, and was gonna archaeology the shit out of it.

The Horde figured that out, and didn't trust the Alliance not to crush the Horde with it.

So a fight happened.

>>49334386
A 30 year break is desperately needed by everyone anyways. Some time to lick wounds and regrow the population. Maybe integrate all that industrial technology and ancient magic back into uses besides war.

>>49335491
>The only son of King Terenas, Arthas is an idealistic, yet somewhat rash, young man who dreams of one day succeeding his father as King of Lordaeron. Arthas became an apprentice paladin at nine-teen and has served as a favorite pupil of Uther the Lightbringer ever since. Though Arthas loves the kindly Uther as an uncle, he longs to take command of his own destiny and become a hero like those brave veterans who fought the orcs during the Second War. Despite the heartache he felt when his brief affair with the sorceress Jaina Proudmoore came to an end, Arthas has remained remarkably committed to his roles as both the Prince of Lordaeron and as a holy paladin. He has a deep reverence for the holy Light and wants nothing more than to safeguard his beloved people from harm.

Doesn't seem like a petty person, just a young noble.

Also Cairne was 99 years old during WC3. How long does the average Tauren live for?

>>49334293
Rexxar was and still is voiced by Steve Blum

>>49336949
Cairne managed to fight on par with Garrosh in the nude at a hundred+ years old. Isn't Thrall like 30 and Garrosh even younger than that?

>>49337554
Thrall and Arthas were both 24 during Rain of Chaos, Jaina was 23 so it's been what, 2 years to vanilla and one year for each expansion so Thrall is 32 or so I guess?

>>49337578
Prime Dilf territory

I just realised that Argus is probably going to be demonic Seattle from Shadowrun with all the eredar tech going on and how it was never nuked to ash. I'm really excited for it.

>>49337578
Vanilla takes place 4 years after Archimondes destruction at Mount Hyjal. It's noted in the cinematic for vanilla.

>>49337578
I think there's a bit of irregularities here and there, like 3 years between an expansion and another, while some happen right after the end of the other. But roughly, it's been 10 years since Vanilla IIRC.

>>49334442
>I'm a woman.
I believe it.

Explains why you'd try to bring in the irrelevant fact of your gender into things.

Trying to argue from an indefensible position? Finding it difficult to cope with the number of facts your opponents have over you? Value your subjective opinion so much you call it fact, but no one else takes it that way? Well I've got just the thing you you. Wait until they use a pronoun, then pounce. Point it out, a dash of sarcastic emphasis, and bam, they're bigots operating on assumptions and you've won the argument.

Seriously, when can we just argue points without retarded distractions. Identity politics needs to die.

>>49337755
>>49337761

I haven't really kept up with WOW beyond the bare basics. I figured my timing was off, but regardless Thrall is around his mid 30s now I guess.

I thought they were all closer to their late 20s during WC3 for some reason.

>>49337761
"In-game data that states that World of Warcraft: Cataclysm takes place 6 years after World of Warcraft.[45][46] However, Ultimate Visual Guide ultimately confirms that the gap between World of Warcraft and Cataclysm was 3 years."

The appearance of adventurers literally made the Warcraftverse constanly on the verge of being destroyed. Seriously in that timeframe you had all the vanilla raid bosses attacking, notably Ragnaros, then you had the Dark Portal open and then you had the Lich King in the North. And then the world fucking exploded.

>>49323630
So I was apparently the only person who ever did this but while leveling my Tauren Warrior in the Barrens I was bored so I bound /train to one of my abilities that I used constantly and it was just so funny to me that I kept it on and never took it off. When I started tanking instances I bound it to every single move and /roar to Charge. Every single attack was just a bombardment of Tauren chooing and randomly doing fistpumps during attack animations. Most people seemed to like it although I remember some people who absolutely hated it. Good times.

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>>49323630
They actually did it. I've played Alliance and Horde simultaneously for years, but they've turned the Horde into outright villains, and I can't stand to play them anymore.

Specifically, it was Stormheim. Everything about Stormheim.
>Forsaken use barrels of plague as ammunition.
>Sylvanas fucks off on her own after ordering her people to stay behind and keep fighting.
>After making a big deal about not leaving a few ships behind as a diversion so she could escape. (Read: Nathanos' only intelligent idea.)
>Sylvanas continues being a self-serving hypocrite, claims to care about her people, gives zero fucks about them.
>Nathanos, her right hand man, shows nothing but contempt for everyone, regardless of whether or not they're on the same side. Regardless of if they're actively helping him.
>Nathanos, Sylvanas' most trusted man casually orders murder as a matter of course.
>Sylvanas makes a deal with the vindictive goddess of the damned. Because playing with powers you shouldn't worked out so well for Garrosh, right, Sylvanas?
>Tries to make more val'kyr that loyal to her, as a bid for personal immortality. She doesn't give a shit about her followers, so she clearly isn't doing it for them.
The more I played that quest chain, the more I felt like I was helping a villain. And I can't just ignore the zone, because I need to do the quests for rep to unlock world quests, so...

I'm done. In its current state, the Horde is well on its way to becoming just as bad, if not worse, than the demon worshiping original Horde. So unless that changes, I'm going full Alliance.

I miss Vol'jin.

>>49338225
What is the story with Koltira? I see a lot of talk about DKs in legion going to undercity to get him or some such. I haven't played my DK in a long time, and truthfully probably won't. Anyone care to give me a quick summary?

>>49338225
>now
>he missed cataclysm where the horde cackles and plaguebombs everything north of the thandol span

Or were you too busy getting the references Kosak had put there?

>>49324354

Dryads are centaur's sister race

>>49335843
I love you

>>49338387
Oh, I felt similar to this during Cata. But Sylvanas wasn't in charge of the entire Horde in Cata, and Garrosh, douche that he was, did tell her to not use the plague.

Garrosh turned the Horde into a bunch of warmongering assholes, but didn't go full atrocity mode until MoP. Where he became a raid boss.

Sylvanas is atrocity after atrocity, and now she's in charge of the Horde and continuing to do the same shit. So now the face of the Horde is a plague bombing lunatic, but there's currently no word on her becoming a raid boss.

At least Cata Garrosh had a couple moments that showed he might not have been a total bastard. It didn't work out that way in the long run, but there was that sliver of hope.

Sylvanas has crossed the line so far she can't even see it on the horizon anymore.

>>49338339
Not much to say. There was some Horde vs Alliance stuff going on in the plague lands. I believe it was a fight over Andorhal. Koltira led the Horde forces, and Thassarian led the Alliance. If I remember right, the two agreed to momentary truce and to help each other kill a lich. Sylvanas found out and locked Koltira in a cage. Fast forward to now, and Thassarian asks the DK player to help him break Koltira out. So they sneak in from the sewer entrance, kill a few abominations, open Koltiras cage, and everyone death gates out.

I'm just happy that, for once, the Alliance are the ones to fire the first shot for faction conflict. As much as I like them for being the "good guys" it's nice to see them step up. Even if it's only Genn.

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Im really sad where warcraft went after Vanilla World of Warcraft.

I was a huge fan of the RPG books back in the day and Vanilla WOW kind of translated that well enough into video game format.

But after BC it seemed they focused too much on the MMO aspects of the game and forgot its an RPG at its core, and the constant retcons, ignoring the foundation of the game's lore, unfinished storylines...

Also I always wanted more Kul'Tiras lore, or the south seas adventures we never got.

>>49338225
>Picking Team Hypocrite over Team Ruthless
Also
>Taking the story of WoW seriously
Business dictates content that is justified by whatever the writers could come up with, not the other way around, so under no circumstances should you consider anything in WoW past TFT to be someone's best effort at worldbuilding.

>>49338608
WoW is only an RPG if you think that "role" means tank, healer, or dps, otherwise it's just Diablo in an MMO context (aka a murderhobo simulator). PCRPGs will always be murderhobo simulators, hence you bawwwing about it not being an RPG is like saying that your favourite hooker is not faithful to you.

>>49338686
Mechanically yes, but im talking lore wise.

In vanilla, at least the 1-60 experience the world felt more like something to be explored, like the parts of warcraft we never got to see in the RTs games, and I immediately connected with the areas as they were detailed in the RPG books.

I am not talking about the gameplay which is, yes, "go here and kill that for loot" x infinity, im talking about the large open world they created initially.

>>49337554
Epic Twist here: Garrosh is OLDER than Thrall.

>>49324573
Battlecruiser no longer operational..

>>49324573
Do you guys think he'll keep doing things?

I know Rob Pardo started up his own company and from what little we know of it, they seem to be going into a fantasy game theme as their first project.

>>49338888
He'll presumably still do a lot of the VA work I guess. Unless Thrall is going to top himself in the thrilling conclusion of this latest shit heap that is wow.

>>49338888
He emphasised on the fact that he was retiring, not going to another company. So maybe he'll tey something else than video games writing. After 25 years of doing so, who can blame him?

>>49338727
>In vanilla, at least the 1-60 experience the world felt more like something to be explored, like the parts of warcraft we never got to see in the RTs games, and I immediately connected with the areas as they were detailed in the RPG books.
I never played the RTS, but this.

There was something near mythical about playing as an alliance paladin, questing for your veregian's fist, and for the final leg, braving the trip into silverpine forest.

In several ways you were returning home.

As a guy who played warcraft 2/3, you were returning home to lordaeron.

As a paladin, you were in spitting distance of the place where your order was born during the trials of the second war

As a WoW player, you were entering the enemies' zone, with the ominous red zone name, and finding cool stuff like pyrewood village where Kael'thas, Tyrande and Maiev had fought together against the scourge, still inhabited by friendly humans as you made the ascent into arugal's keep.

Far more than anything else, WoW was truly the world of warcraft come to life. It was the azeroth you had known since you first put the floppy in your A drive during 93 now in front of you through the eyes of a fresh adventurer.

You know how in Lord of the rings the fellowship finally goes to the grey havens and meets up with gandalf, galadriel and all the elves almost by luck?

Vanilla wow was just that

The end of wrath was the ships sailing away and the hobbits left behind on the pier

Theramore being destroyed was Merry and Pippin saying bye to sam.

We are now slowly journeying towards bag end.

>>49339216
>I never played the RTS, but this.
>RTS
I mean RPG.

>>49337765
I'm just very bored of the

>Sylvanas is muh waifu

argument.

>finding it difficult to cope with the number of facta your opponents have over you?

Saying that "so he can fap more to Sylvanas" isn't a fact. Never called him a bigot, not trying to make him feel like shit, just sick of people shutting down and belittling a pro-Sylvanas argument by claiming waifuism. There is absolutely nothing political in what I said.

Look, clearly I triggered a personal bias or memory for you, and I'm sorry for that, but I have argued with facts plenty of times on this thread, on scrolls of lore, and on bnet forums plenty of times. So when I reply to "so he can fap to his waifu" with "I fuck dick," don't go trying to stick words in my mouth.

>>49339610
Autistic, too.

>>49339610
>trying this hard to defend yourself on an anonymous video game addictions imageboard
>telling someone else what they can and cant do
lol

>>49337554
Garrosh's age is unknown, but he's probably slightly older than Thrall.
He had to be conceived before Grom left Draenor, which was two years after the Second War ended
unless he was only born right before Ner'zhul's horde attacked, he's older than Thrall

>>49340010
Garrosh was a boy when the second invasion came, when he was sick with orc aids and quarantined with others like him, which is why he's brown. He's probably five years older than Thrall, at least, who aged horribly in comparison.

>>49339846
And enjoying every second if it.

>>49339987
>video games addiction
>/tg/

Which night elf has the best personality?

>>49340731
Considering the standard of quality amongst Night Elf lore characters?

Probably a random quest NPC somewhere, been a while since I played through any night elf zone though

>>49340731
Kalistia Starlance :^)

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>>49340731
the one true queen

>>49325077
>next xpack
>memeges vs necromancers
>khadgar vs kel

>>49340938
>>most beautiful woman in the world
>>looks like a regular night elf woman

>>49341123
>Looks worse because they're using a lower end model originally developed in Cata.

>>49323939
>Nazgrim force choke
Why does he have such a boner for choking people?

Subtle commentary on cops force chocking?

>>49327254
How so?
I never felt much about him being a psycho.

>>49341235
>Why does he have such a boner for choking people?
Imagine you were a proud orc warrior who got dumped in an unmarked ditch outside the city. You get a raised and given magic powers. Why wouldn't you force choke bitches?

>>49341330
Why is he UH instead of Blood then?

>tfw he doesn't say "Tip of the scourge, no greater honor"

>>49341330
>>got dumped in an unmarked ditch outside the city
Fucking lel. Did that actually happen? If so then the Horde are the biggest hypocrites ever.

>>49333690
I know almost nothing about the Horde's named characters, but even I can answer that: someone competent.

>>49333690
>his first order is to find and kill KT because he's a commie

>>49341262
He's less of a "cackling madly while slaughtering villages" psychotic and more of a "if you cross me or annoy me too much, I'll kill you" kind of psychotic.

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>>49340731

>>49341373
Its their "revered graveyard" because even the alliance didn't get a heroic graveyard until NOW. That ditch is where you see orc heroes on ancestor day or whatever.

>>49341123
I've liked every time we've seen her though. She never loses her temper, she has naga turned into hurricanes for that.

>>49341235
I took it as a joke on death knight players who force choke everyone they possibly can.

>>49341521
Most orc clans burn their dead tho.

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When will I get to play a hozen death knight?

>>49341857
When all the quests become poop quests.

>>49341857
in the next expansion
Scourge pride world wide
gas the living, Fourth War now

>>49324573
Wow, he looks a lot better without those orange-tinted Bono sunglasses.

>>49341937
The 5th horseman is Riko.

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>>49341937
>Gas the living
Waaaay ahead of ya.

>>49342036
>tfw Bolvar mentally dominates the entire Forsaken race and uses them as cannon fodder against the Legion

>>49342036
We lost Kael'thas but kept this? THIS?
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>49342036
>Garry

>>49342089
I guess Kael'thas must've been a real shit, huh?

>>49342085
>tfw Bolvar and Sylvanas join forces and rule the undead as king and queen.

>>49342147
no mercy for traitors who consort with the living

>>49342036
Based.

Fuck the furries. Let the traitors burn. Vengeance for Lordaeron.

>>49342212
>implying the Forsaken care about Lordaeron at all besides squatting there
>implying they spare any thought to its memory

>>49342201
>traitors who consort with the living
>what is the Ebon Blade

>>49342129
He was a good character

>Creative in difficult situations
>Willing to cooperate with others like nelves and nagas
>Willing to do anything for his people without going crazy like Arthas
>Fire mage

Until BC turned him into loot pinata with no good explanation and Golden wrote him into a salty nerd that got his bitch taken by a jock.

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>>49342228
Lots of green going on there.

>based Forsaken plaguing Azeroth
Truly a thing of beauty.

>>49342242
Well, he did get treated pretty harsh in BC. Guess he must've been a real shit, huh?

>>49326017

What was Gnomeragan like during the Second War, before the gnomes hit and quickly dropped off the peak of their technological capabilities afterward?

>>49342147
>mental domination: the fetish.

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>>49342090
>Garrosh is for playful teasing and Elemental Lynching

>>49337554
>>49336949
>Cairne was 99 years old during WC3

But... wait. In WC3, you go on a mission to save Baine, and if I recall right, Baine was actually pretty young at that point? Like, he only really became an adult between then and when Vanilla started? I think he's been described as young in a few spots, too, like early 20s. So he'd have had to be 15 or something during WC3.

So, when he was conceived, Cairne would have been in his 80s.

... good show Cairne, I guess.

>>49342872
>You know, old bulls really only have one function....

>>49342872
This also carries the implication that Cairne had other children

Other children that mostly likely died to centaur or quilboar

Ok, so here's an idea I'm hoping for for the later Legion patches, but it's unlikely. But, maybe it would be a good idea for an RPG campaign set during Legion.

Basically, there are a ton of potential allies against the Legion lying around. We've had some show up (the Scourge under Bolvar, the Shado-pan probably since Taoshi's apparently one of the top rogues in the whole world, et cetera), but there are plenty more and some of them would be a sort of enemy-of-my-enemy. Like, the Diremaul ogres, or the various bug people remnants (servants of the Old Gods, who are enemies of the Legion), and others. Instead of your regular daily quest grind zone, you spread out over a bunch of old content areas on diplomatic missions. Imagine, say, a quest line of Ebonhorn and Wrathion going to Outland to talk to Sabellian and the Netherwing dragons, or Baine having to swallow his need for vengeance and going with the Highmountain tauren to talk to Magatha and asking if they can use the Doomstone to fight the Legion. Maybe get some more characterization for Baine in there with that one, so he can get more personality and be a more satisfying contender for future warchief and maybe get shipped with Mayla, they can bond over their dead dads. And during those quests you could see more Legion invasion activity spread out over the world again, like during the pre-patch and some of the class hall quests.

If you made a tabletop game out of it, you'd probably have to have pretty high level characters. Maybe give people the chance to directly port their WoW characters into the game, but then you'd have to write up the artifacts, give them the option of class entourages, et cetera. Might be too much of a stretch to take the legendary best-of-the-best guys off the front lines. So maybe some characters who are top people, but not quite right at the top people.

>>49343316
Man, no wonder Cairne was so depressed and apathetic when Rexxar, Rokhan, and Chen met him. Baine was his last son, and was the last he'd ever have.

>>49343454
If I ever run a campaign in the Warcraft setting, I am using this

>>49343372
I'm still convinced we'll see more of Baine in Highmountain as the story progresses and have little calfs with Mayla.

>>49343454

I dunno, I'm sure there were plenty of tauren girls who'd have happily hopped on his totem pole if he'd let them. If he was still firing live rounds in his 80s it wouldn't be too much of a stretch except for the lady, hurr hurr for him to manage it again. Especially with druids and shaman around to work some of the ol' fertility magic.

... Now I'm imagining that the horde and alliance have magical family planning clinics. I'm seeing some mystical oak grove with living plants woven into chairs in a waiting area, with nervous couples hanging around reading magazines, until the secretary tells them to go in to sit at a desk and have an earnest, professional talk with an elf wearing a moose skin and leaves.

And the secretary is a bear.

quickly /tg/, rewrite one bit of lore that you think would make the game better.

>Jaina succeeds in flooding ogrimmar
>Local chapter of the earthen ring stalls the wave long enough to let civilians evacuate before being washed away
> Ogrimmar citizens return and rebuild their city on the higher bluffs of the old city

>no more fucking elevators
>Awesome canals running through city
>Ogrimmar gets a port that players don't have to walk half a zone across to get to
>Players can dive into canals to see the ruins of the old city
>No more fucking elevators

>>49344004
>Farseer Nobundo becomes the earth warder
>Thrall remains warchief

>>49344004
>Flooding orgrimmar for more than a few moments
The water wouldn't last for more than a couple days, given that Org is level with the rest of Durotar if not higher. At most the Cleft of Shadow is left unusable, and it could be eventually drained too.

>>49341857
Never. Pandaria races will never return in any relevant way.

>>49344061
Hrm yeah. I guess you would need to demolish part of the mountain between the valley of honor and the sea for this to work, something I doubt a wave of water elementals could do. Even if it flooded out to the river through the valley of spirits, it would still have an outlet through the north and south gates. To keep oggrimar a water park you'd need to turn both gates into a dam.

Actually, that would be hilarious if Gallywix ever became warchief. Dismantles the horde and turns oggrimar into a water park resort.

>>49344061
>Cleft of Shadow
There's fucking fire and lava below it. You can't flood OG

>>49341857
>Hozen Death Knight
>Unholy spec is literally throwing poop at everyone

>>49336949
Yes he was initially noble but his reasons for doing things became pettier and pettier.

>>49344151

You get to have a cool adventure making booze with the Monkey King if you're a brewmaster monk in Legion.

>>49344248
>>49344174

I wonder if the Horde are ever going to do anything with the ridiculously huge space that Garrosh dug out under Orgrimmar? There had to be lots of useful stuff left behind after the raid.

>>49344913
>You get to have a cool adventure making booze with the Monkey King if you're a brewmaster monk in Legion.
Yup, monks may get some stuff like a follower or an artifact quest but that's all.

>>49344913
Of the stuff in Org, what we know there was:
-Kor'Kron Juggernauts: Nice for melee encounters, but a likely a pain to transport-clearly not deployable away fom Org.
-Iron Stars: Double edged weapons as they can easily end up trampling allies
-Captured animals: likely freed at the behest of druids and other groups
-Mogu Dark Animus tech: Blood Elves at the Isle of the Thunder King had largely figured it out already
-Blackfuse's Goblin tech: Mostly destroyed, and like other Goblin tech, largely unreliable.
-Mantid Biotech: Not the field of any known members of the horde so likely unable to start the process for reverse engineering/too dangerous to approach. Unlikely that any survivors were willing to provide any help.

>>49341096
>Archmemer Khadgar of the Kekin' Tor

>>49343724
>earnest, professional talk with an elf wearing a moose skin and leaves.
>And the secretary is a bear.
My sides.

>>49341096
>necromancers
>not necromemers

>>49343724
>Be me, good ol' Bronzebeard dwarf
>Hae to go tae Sturmwind tae fix some noble pansy's heirloom mace tha' he got from his granpappy, 'cause the fat oaf cannae drag his arse to a bludy gryphon mastir
>Arrive at Stormwind
>There's a goddamn commotion in tha Trade District
>Some crazy-eyes bints be screaming aboot babbeh murder
>By Modimus' crotch, this must be some twisted, foocked-up shite
>Notice tha stench of wet, dirty dog
>Druids, druids everywhere
>Grab a passing urchin by tha ear
>Offer him two silver fer him ta get to tha front of tha crowd an' see wha's goinnon
>He comes back oan minute later, tells me they're talkin' 'bout somethin' called "Plend Prent-hood"
>Prolly another offshoot of them damn Twilight's Hammer or sumthing
>Give him the silvers, get ta tha nobleman's state to save that antique mace
>It's jus' some fookin' rust from being kept inna moist room
>Take it back tae Ironforge, clean it in a day, give it back to him in a fortnight with a huge bill fer wastin' me time

Fookin' humans.

Sorry, my fake scottish is shit

>>49344269
You know you want it.

Dook that ooker, wikket.

>>49341857
>hozen memes

Was this the Old Gods' plan all along? Drive us mad enough to beg Blizzard for this?

>>49339610
I was beinging facetious about the facts thing. Giving other examples of the gender pronoun defense/distraction shit.

The part you should focus on is the instance that applies to you - valuing your subjective opinion over others.

>personal bias nonsense
I'm pointing it out because it's become the number one derailer of discussion. Nothing ever gets talked about because faggots pollute everything with irrelevant identity shit. Political or not, the practice is the worst thing to happen to conversation in decades.

>Nothing political
Fine. But its still a pointless obnoxious thing to do that detracts from the conversation.

>>49342872
"Baring a lucky strike or similar turn of fortune, Cairne would have likely won the mak'gora. He was calm, and it was practically child's play for him to goad Garrosh and use his reckless anger against him. All eyewitness accounts recorded that Cairne was doing well and was winning before he was poisoned.[21]"

He was 106 at the very least at the time. Is Cairne OP or do Tauren just outmuscle Orcs by that much?

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I was really annoyed by Cyana's betrayal, didn't care about the tons of literal whos who also jumped ship, since it seems that's what demon hunters are just supposed to do half the time, but she was part of the gang. Felt I should have been able to prevent it, had a feeling about her when I rescued her during the DH intro. Putting her down didn't felt bitter. Yeah, I'm probably just autistic.

>>49347105
>Is Cairne OP or do Tauren just outmuscle Orcs by that much?

Tauren outmuscle the orcs, they're like ogre sized and smarter.

I mean, their shamans are constantly carrying two giant tree trunks like its no big deal.

>>49347105
>Is Cairne OP or do Tauren just outmuscle Orcs by that much?
I'm pretty sure that on average, a tauren could easily best a member of any other Warcraft race in single combat. Especially no items, axes only, Final Destination

>>49347319
Not to mention their WC3 units, they filled the spot of the big stompy siege giant guys that you'd have to build in a high tier building.

>>49347446
Only thing I could see giving them a run for their money would be worgen, simply due to how nimble they are.

new thread when?

>>49347446
Tauren seem to be slow and sluggish, ogres might wreck them and orcs could just outmaneuver the tauren if they're smart.

>>49347646
So in terms of raw combat potential it would be ogres > fel orcs > tauren >= worgen > orcs

>>49347779
Ogres were shitstomped by orcs

>>49347813
Only be demon-powered orcs. And only then by sheer numbers.

>>49347932
>>49347932
>>49347932
>>49347932
New thread.

>>49347459
And Tauren Chieftain was a monster in combat.

>>49341659
>Durotan buried
>Grom buried
>Nazgrim buried

>>49338467
Ah, well thanks for the summary.