Pathfinder General /pfg/

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Reposting from the last thread

Okay everyone, work for the final Kineticists of Porphyra should be starting soon, and I know some of you are familiar with my work on this series, as it is heroic.

There's already a solid amount of work done on it, but I want to know, is there anything that you'd like to see from this last entry in the series?

>have weedy noble villain to fight players
>notable muscular tone, but nothing crazy
>players are level 7
>don't know that the villain is a Barbarian 10/Vigilante 2 VMC oracle
>raging cannibal/urban barbarian, brute vigilante, ravenous cursed oracle
>they force him into combat by ambushing him at his estate
>first round he grows with brute form/rages and swallows whole the wizard
>climbs over wall using climb speed talent
>goes to hide in alleys because knows the city better than them & is faster
>barfs up the wizard and kills him with full attack
>players get fucking pissed

They even knew he was a cannibal, knew he "flew into famously powerful rages", refused open duels (because brute form), was a leading a double life as a serial killer, and was more than a bit insane.

He very much didn't plan on getting caught as he had:

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/pull-ring-of-scent

As a tongue ring

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-of-friendly-terrain

For urban plus haste boots for a 70ft movespeed. As an urban barbarian crowds did not impede him. First thing he did was climb over the fence and dive into the street. He ran through/knocked people out of the way and escaped into an alley in the panic. Then he got onto a roof and kept going until he had to vomit up the wizard. He did so into a small alley, passed the save on the spell (superstition w/ human fcb helped a lot) and the full attack took out the wizard.

Only thing he didn't have was silence because he couldn't afford a dark skull of silence.

I honestly thought he was a pretty cool villain, but I have a hard time telling because my players get angry at anything.

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>>49314300
But are sneeki breeki halflings allowed?

>>49314470
Halflings are not allowed. The writing of the Kender race revealed what you little shits actually wanted to be the whole time.

>>49314349
Also repostan from last thread:
Is there a Hex-based Kineticist yet? I feel like there should be a hex-based kineticist, with a hex strike for its blast.

Not Kineticists related, but from the Villains playtest, Injected Infusions would work way better as an alchemist discovery instead. I get why it's written as a feat though.

>>49314523
Reposted response from the last thread

>>49314375
There actually was, the hex kineticist in KOP 2.

And it really would work better as a discovery, I just can't really make it one in the confines of the book. There's also a few vigilante talents I would also like to allow alchemist to take.

>>49314393
I can work with these, there's a few planned that we wanted to try to do for 'pure bloods' that are still experimental, the problem is that they deal with language I'm not sure is too subjective.

>>49314549
Could maybe slap "special: an alchemist may take this feat in place of an alchemist discovery" or something, then beg them to let you sneak some alchemist stuff on the page of a later book for the other stuff?

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>>49314374
Get better players. You're a GM, you're the object of desire here, not them. If they don't like you giving them a challenging encounter (ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU PRETTY MUCH GAVE THEM A PLAYBOOK OF WHAT HE DOES AND CAN DO) then that's there fault.

There's dozens of fa/tg/uys right here in /pfg/ whom would be so much more grateful to even BE IN A GAME.

Reposting this again.

I'm rebuilding the Medium to be more like the play test version, with 54 spirits in all. I'm aiming for a mix between the /relative/ simplicity of the release medium and the fun of the play test Medium, because let's be honest here, the play test Medium's rules were a complete clusterfuck.

I'm going to clean this document up a bit later, but right now, if you scroll to the bottom of the doc, there's a list of secondary spirits that grant three spirit powers rather than four, eighteen of which are basically ports of the play test spirits. I need ideas for about thirty more spirits to hit the total of 54 that I want.

Here's a link. Comments are turned on. Scroll to the bottom for a chart with alignments of each secondary spirit. I need suggestions for what should go in the empty slots.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QwizRjfkg0inFpMqG22lHdIcIRt9glXY_SyAdFJv-wU/edit?usp=drive_web

>>49314619
But my players are fa/tg/uys.

>>49314598
I was thinking of doing that for some of the talents, maybe I'll see if I can get some of that into the next book, or possibly one of the side books on which I'm not SUPER integrated into.

>>49314300
Hei, lazy ass! Where links to LoD, SA and Horror Adventures?

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Copy of Ultimate Intrigue arrived today, anything inside that I absolutely need to check out? Planning on doing a full read soon but hype it up

>>49314667
Get better fa/tg/uys. Because your fa/tg/uys are whiny bitches.

>>49314659
There is literally already a 3PP class that does the spirit stuff amd has like 100 spirits.

>>49314659
Try 3pp Occultist from Radiance House.

>>49314754

3PP is neat but I prefer homebrewing things, and the flavor of the Harrow Medium is cooler to me than that class.

>>49314300
Boy, that grackle looks really pissed

>>49314511
I want to play lewd lolis, not sneaky thieves, but halflings with the Childlike merit are about the closest I can get in Pathfinder.

>>49314754
>100 spirits.
>half of them are furry or pedo
>expecting you could get your GM to read through the book and not come away thinking you're a pedo furry creep

>>49314840

>Lewd lolis

I prefer them as reasonably proportioned, albeit half-sized, people.

It lets me get my size difference and huge insertion kinks without throwing Enlarge Person into the bedroom.

>>49314869

This was part of my reasoning for making my own homebrew. Instead of getting furry/pedo spirits, you get-

>The Pursuer, a knight that had such a hardon for huge swords, charging, and tower shields that by channeling him, you can have a greatsword in one hand, a tower shield in another, and can charge and murder things.
>The Onslaught, a monk that was snubbed by her sensei, and went on a murderous rampage, before being slain by her rival.
>The Rabbit, an actual rabbit (not anthro or kemonomimi or anything) that was so good at dodging and avoiding things it gained a mythic rank and became a spirit called upon by mediums.
>The Lantern, a swamp ghost that plays tricks on traveling boatmen by showing them will o' the wisps, having been taught that trick by a traveling witch.
>The Librarian, the greatest fucking Librarian to ever exist.

Now tell me- would you rather channel the spirit of a knight that was so badass that he used a greatsword in one hand, a shield in the other, and had a massive hateboner for his enemies, or would you rather become a weird anthropomorphic panther lady that loves dick and wants to be subby?

>>49315004

I'd rather be the subby Panther-girl with huge boobs, because the Pursuer is a standard war spirit thing and the panther gives me an erection.

>>49315073

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I prefer "rule of cool" instead of... weird, pedo/furry stuff, I guess.

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>>49315004
>would you rather channel the spirit of a knight that was so badass that he used a greatsword in one hand, a shield in the other, and had a massive hateboner for his enemies, or would you rather become a weird anthropomorphic panther lady that loves dick and wants to be subby?

Honestly, I'm gonna need to think about that one for a little bit.

>>49315004
You're gonna have to give us some physical signs/personality influences.

Since outside of those, that panther guy's abilities are actually pretty alright. I wouldn't mind full-attacking with a dark magic touch attack.

And being turned into a tittymonster panther lady wouldn't bother me provided it was the right kind of game for it.

>>49315128

Right now, I'm doing mechanical stuff first. I've got a few Compulsions written up for some of them (the Pursuer makes you prone to hateboners and charging, the Rabbit makes you prefer elegance over brute force, the Onslaught makes you egotistic, so much so that you're green with envy if anyone is better than you at something). When I get the mental stuff done first, I'll add in some physical changes when you channel a secondary spirit.

>>49315165

...no

>>49315344
Yeah, s'what I'm saying.

That spirit ain't that.

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Well, here we go. I have been done for actually weeks, but I finally finished a shitty first draft of the Unchained Cavalier. I'll be adding more Oaths later, but I finally managed to push out the last few bits.

The Unchained Cavalier seeks to make the Cavalier more of a team player in terms of combat. It accomplishes this via two means, an improved Teamwork Feats based playstyle, and the new Banner class feature. Banners allow for a number of different battlefield control and buffing effects. In addition the variety of mounts of been increases, giving cavaliers access to Magical Beasts and unusual mundane mounts. Finally to shore up their combat and out of combat side Oaths have been introduced. Oaths have a number of Noble positions, lands, bonuses to social interaction, and skill unlocks for the Cavalier out of combat. See it either in the link below or the attached PDF.

Unchained Cavalier:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12s2kjayDkuBLYZ4ao9EDqo5aUJ2XqG6w9Kcr3zPyAKM/edit?usp=sharing


Also you can see my other two classes below:
And here is the Unchained Fighter:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1twEab3PBHvzMLTrx_UJak4P9g5avkvVaZfrBiMPI-6s/edit?usp=sharing

And the Scholar Initiating Class:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WKwyK10BvzqVb9M3lIJ0ZyraUNSuEr8y0QK6ML6d-6Y/edit?usp=sharing

I'll do a bunch of editing on the UC Cavalier tonight and post it again in better shape.

>>49315549
>tfw still not in the pastebin

Perhaps I should just add myself.

Anybody got a suggestion for a quick horror one-off I can use as a general guideline for my own spooky oneshot? I've got the base premise down but I'm absolutely lousy at designing campaigns from scratch.

>>49315549
Get the fuck out of here. I'm tired of your memes you fucking piece of trash.

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>get a player to join my campaign
>he wants to play catfolk
>then he wants to play a kitsune
>he reveals hes a furry

well, this is why I totally prefer recruiting from /tg/ over roll20, but hey. At least he sounds sane.

How bad can it be?

>>49315679
I am unsure what you mean. What memes?

>>49315679
What's wrong with it? It's not all that interesting but nothing explicitly-BAD about it.

>>49315759
>he reveals he's a furry
If he feels that's information you need to know, bad.

Is a boss having magic swords that can combine into a greatsword too far-fetched?

If not, should I prevent the players from taking them somehow?

>>49315786
The unchained fighter is actually pretty good.

>>49315759

Describe to us the character concepts he had for the Catfolk and Kitsune.

>>49314300
>DSP's Forrest started a patreon for her own 3pp company

Are we really shilling for this tranny now? How far have we fallen.

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>>49316033
Kill yourself.

>>49315759
If he pretty much openly tells you he's a furry just after meeting you things are only going to get worse from here - much worse.

Don't say /pfg/ didn't warn you.

>>49315818
>If not, should I prevent the players from taking them somehow?

Why give the boss cool and interesting loot if you're not going to let the players have it?

>>49316138
I've had cases where cool loot from a boss ended up changing a guy's plan for his character entirely.

That's probably more my fault though.

>>49316120
>>49315957
>>49315801
Well, he slipped it in casually into the conversation. Character concept sounded normal, slave that bought freedom, but had nothing to do, so stowed along for the voyage. It's a fantasy roman empire, so 1/3 of the population is slaves, so that's not weird.

I'll have my finger on the eject button, but it should be okay for now.

>>49314374
I have the same problem with my mythic players, anon.

One of them died at 7th level to a shadow despite having made the knowledge (religion) check to know everything about it.

After throwing one of their bottles of holy water onto the floor it had sunk into.

And after attempting three full rounds of attacking it with a masterwork kukri.

Some people just cannot be helped. At least your game seems to be online. I gotta deal with these people in person.

>>49316376
Should I, as a player, feel lucky that I've only had to deal with one player who actively hates having their character die or the DM do something awesome? Most of the people I've played with have actually done incredibly risky things that they only survived due to luck and quick thinking (plus a few potions shoved down their throat), one guy would even be disappointed when their character survived because it meant that they couldn't build a new one.

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>>49316557
Probably, yes.

Hell, one of my group mates is so salty about character death that he got upset when /my/ character died to the point that the GM decided to retcon it so he'd shut up.

Like, it wasn't a bad death, and it had story relevance, but holy shit sometimes it's like he would rather play a videogame to have save points than suffer a character dying.

He gets really worked up when his character's health gets low, too, despite insisting on playing meatshield fighter McTwoWeapons.

I really shouldn't be complaining, he's a good guy, he's just got some frustrating tendencies. Venting over and done with.

>>49316606
Out of all the groups (ignoring one person who was a legit narcissist) I've been in I've been the most upset by having a character die and that was because it was a dumb avoidable death and I was the last surviving original group member. A close second was just salty with me because I have him bad advice that got him killed.

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How fetishy can you get with Bestow Curse, yet still be within the parameters of the spell?

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>Try to play an archetype from Legendary Vigilante playtest in a roll20 game
>Send the doc to the GM
>They say it doesn't look like it's been playtested
>Have to send them the playtest threads
>They let me use it
>But I know I'm in their fucking crosshairs
>mfw

Seriously though, they want to go paizo only, and every spellcasting archetype for Paizo gets completely janked out on its specialization (mystic bolts without 3p hurt my soul)

Hey /tg/ I'm going to a pathfinder game next week, the guy who's running/hosting it said anything currently out by Paizo is fine.

Did they add the monster girl races in yet? I really would like to be able to play as my preferred race.

>>49316770
Blood of the Beast says its a full month out. You'll just have to fluff the existing races.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/monstrous-graft-ex


Monstrous Graft gives you bonuses depending on if the replacement limb is a leg or an arm. However, it doesn't seem to matter which limb is being replaced. Could I replace my arms and legs with dragon arms and gain 4 claw attacks?

Hum. PFG, is my Pathwalker into Awakened Blade better off using a Deep Crystal Greatsword, or a Warblade Staff?

>>49317168
You're better off not playing that travesty of an archetype that takes an already great class and makes it stronger for no reason.

>>49316720
At least they don't ban Occult Adventures because 3.5 Psionics was stronk.

Telling me 1pp Kineticist isn't gonna have a fun time in Iron Gods. Hmph.

>>49317226
>I don't like thing, and you're a bad person for using it.

>>49317329
Didn't say anything about the player, only that the archetype is an abortion.

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>>49316720
>mystic bolts without 3pp

Mystic Bolts without 3pp or homebrew cause me physical pain. The fact that there are FAQ's that specify things that make them EVEN WEAKER make me legit angry.

>>49317433
Well, do you have an opinion on the actual question of Warblade Staff vs Deep Crystal Greatsword, or did you just want to deride the class choices involved?

>>49316770
While you're probably being a memelord: what monster girl race did you want? There are plenty already.

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What's the best way to handle large scale battles? Like armies vs. armies vs. large monsters with PCs in the mix? I've tried to do Paizo's large-scale conflict rules but my players say it's very dull due to lack of player agency in them.
My players want to do things on the battlefield that such a system doesn't really account for, so are there any better systems like it?
I was thinking of just doing full conversions into Warhammer Fantasy rules for the hell of it because it feels like it'd just be better than doing Paizo's mass combat rules, but I want to check here first.

>>49317540
No idea what a Warblade Staff is, but Deep Crystal needs an errata.

>>49317557

Seconded. Skinwalkers can be fluffed into monstergirls if you never transform back into human.

>>49317733
That is an absolutely terrifying thought

>>49317704
It's a psicrystal staff that acts as a Deep Crystal Bastard Sword.

>>49315549
Shouldn't order be at 1st level? I do like the looks of the changes here

>>49316557
>one guy would even be disappointed when their character survived because it meant that they couldn't build a new one.

I fucking hate my players because of this attitude. They are constantly doing dumb shit and taking stupid risks, looking to have their characters die so they can make new characters.

It makes it really fucking hard to do any real world building or give players plot hooks when they're replacing their characters every half-dozen games.

>>49317677
I have never found a system that deals with this in a good way. Even Warhammer rules tend to be a bit fiddly and not much fun in actual play.

>>49317896
It was always in character risks (which were usually dumb but the character was high at the time) or epic moments that they only just survived either by a lucky roll or one of us diving after them and losing half our health to shove a potion down their throat.

>>49317922
>Warhammer rules aren't fun.
Excuse you?

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I have an intelligent sand golem. I was looking for some hlep on feat selection 3.5 only but there is some crossover.

Only int 7. I have 7 feats due to 18 hitdice (3.5)

I was thinking either grapple or bullrush based.

Shocktrooper etc.


I dont know how feasible power attack would be on this thing

>>49318069
They're not. They're too fiddly for me to enjoy. Pathfinder rules are also too fiddly for me to really enjoy, and 5th edition isn't fiddly enough so I can't like it either. I'm fucking picky.

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How do I pic related in Pathfinder?

>>49318288
>It's huge and has a base +27 on grapple checks.

Give it grapple feats.

So folks! I've renamed the Rebuild Medium to the Unchained Medium, and added: Alignment Types to the channeled spirits, a few sentences of fluff (nothing so specific as to peg it to a setting, but giving you a general idea as to what that spirit is about), and a Compulsion that you must follow for that spirit.

Currently, I have around 24 spirits done. 6 of them are the Legendary spirits (Archmage, Hierophant, Guardian, Champion, Marshal, Trickster), and currently each Legendary Spirit has an attribute score and 3 Associated Spirits of varying alignments that serve as customization for that spirit. I'm aiming to hit 8 spirits for each legendary spirit, one for each alignment, with the Legendary Spirit in the middle, taking the Neutral spot. There are some restrictions on what Associated Spirits you can channel- they have to have at least one alignment component in common (Either Law/Chaos or Good/Evil), and they cannot be of opposed alignments (so you can't channel an LG and a CE spirit at the same time).

What I want are your suggestions for spirits. I need about 30~ more to be really finished and to hit the 54 we were promised in the playtest of the Medium. If you've got ideas, leave a comment on the doc or reply on here. There's a section at the bottom with slots that still need to be filled with spirits.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QwizRjfkg0inFpMqG22lHdIcIRt9glXY_SyAdFJv-wU/edit

>>49318342
>Google's best guess for this image: anime

What am I supposed to be looking at?

>>49318365
Before I look at this, you'll need to tell me how all of these new spirit options interact with the Spirit Dancer archetype.

>>49318396

Let's just say

They're not compatible. Spirit Dancer is already one of the most complex archetypes there is (for an already fairly complex class), and I don't want to fry my brain thinking about how to make that work with about 48 more secondary spirits. If you've got an idea, I'd love to hear it!

>>49315759
Thats why you should interview your players before sending the invite link.

>>49318472
I don't have any ideas. It's just that I'm playing a Spirit Dancer right now so seeing all kind of cool new spirits my character would never be allowed to use wouldn't be much fun.

>>49317677
>What's the best way to handle large scale battles? Like armies vs. armies vs. large monsters with PCs in the mix? I've tried to do Paizo's large-scale conflict rules but my players say it's very dull due to lack of player agency in them.

Give them a slice of the battlefield where they're fighting common soldiers, officers and maybe a captain.

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Say guys, how does the idea of a Spiritualist archetype themed around being bound to the souls of his former military platoon and summoning his old dead squad mates into battle sound to you?

And yes, for all you bloody weebs out there it means Ionian Hetairoi

>>49318573
>Hi, I saw you were interested in my game. Do you mind if I ask you a few questions?
Sure, shoot.
>Are you a fucking furry?
Wh-what? No.
>Good. Are you a disgusting pedophile?
No! Jesus what the fuck?
>Just checking. Now, what do you think about rape? I'll bet you love rape, don't you, you little sicko.
No! Seriously, what the fuck is up with these questions? You know what? I'm not interested in this game after all.

>>49318654

So essentially something like the Battle Host Archetype for the Occultist? More martial and smash-facey? Possibly gaining flank buddies?

>>49318654
What does it trade out for the multiple Phantoms?

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>>49318661
>Being this autistic

>>49318654
Sounds pretty cool to be honest. I'd probably play that character as a hobgoblin and have him covered in a hundred tattoos - each tattoo is a memorial to one of his fallen squadmates and serves as a link for letting him summon that soldiers spirit back to the world.

At some point if another PC ends up dying, the hobgoblin says that they are just as much his brothers as his old soldiers were and adds a tattoo of the dead PC to his body as well.

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So without flying, what would make a good mount for a cavalier type character?
I'm thinking Dire Lion myself

>>49318749
A horse, because the Cavalier's Mount class feature, along with any class with a Mount class feature, gives you a choice between a camel and a horse.

>>49318770
This. Horse is better than camel, though I admit I do rather like the camel's "spit" attack. Even if it's not as mechanically optimal having your camel spit on someone you don't like is always nice.

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>>49318770
>tfw no option to have my Absalomite Cavalier ride an Axe Beak even though they're relatively common transportation there, whereas horses are less common because Centaurs don't like that

>>49318824
>>49318770
I should also mention this 3.5 so the cavalier is a prestige class and not a base class like it is in PF

>>49318878
>whereas horses are less common because Centaurs don't like that

I thought Absalom doesn't do horses because they're always getting eaten by harpies or something.

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If a creature has DR/Magic AND Good do you need both to overcome it's DR, or just one or the other?

>>49318947
Both.

DR/Magic OR Good would be one or the other.

>>49318698
Still workshopping that bit, I'm currently in the concept phase, though they will definitely lose out on Incorporeal firm stuff, bonded manifestation (maybe), their casting, and the emotional focus stuff

>>49318687
He, not really. Less based on items and more haunted by the spirits of his close comrades. The like the Sorrow from MGS3, or when Alucard summoned the Wallachian Cavalry, or Marona from Phantom Brave.

>>49318735
Exactly what I was going for.
I won't see you end as ashes. You're all diamonds.

>>49318970

Well, I know. Battle Host is the more face-smashing style archetype for the Occultist. For the Spiritualist, the Ectoplasmatist already exists, which serves sort of like a pseudo-Magus with ectoplasm whips I guess. If it's like the Sorrow, I can get behind that.

>>49318661
People are willing to do a lot more just to get into a plane.
> Are you a fucking muslim?
I wouldnt mind having to fill a form in order to join a game, it will give me the security no degenerates are allowed.
THIS IS HOW WE KEEP AMERICA SAFE

Are one of you fuckers spamming the /5eg/ again?
This time by stirring up the shit about the Warlock class and responding exclusively with smug anime character images and shitfaced little emotes?

>>49319051
>implying the truly depraved won't just lie to your face
Topkek

>>49319070
Is probably either just 2hufag, who's been shutter since 4E, or that one so gel fag from here who's gotten bored people won't bite his b8 here anymore

>>49319103
Look, I know it's a little much to ask, but could you go over to the thread and report all of his posts? /5eg/ is a fucking idiot over there and don't know how to not bite down on a subject.
I know it probably won't do shit, but it'd be nice to have help.

Timeworn is such a shitty mechanic god damn

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>>49318342

Mah nigga

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>>49319079
>mfw this is how muslims get on planes.
Then why I am being molested in the airports?

>>49319103
Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean they're behind every single thing ever. They're not the bogeyman.

>>49315759
I've had this same thing happen in an IRL game, and my experience was pretty easy. The player in question was someone we already knew and was open about being a furry. Once it was known what I would tolerate, things went smoothly. Oftentimes, the people who are open about kinks like that know not to push things too far, I find. Figure out what he wants to do and give him a few ground rules; everything will probably go smoothly from there.

Oh wow, has anyone checked out that super spy hybrid class yet? My friend just got it and it's...it's bad.

>>49319251
No, link?

>>49319263
http://paizo.com/products/btpy9onn?Super-Spy-Hybrid-Class

My friend's about to post their review for it, they got it for free, and they're really thankful they did because it's kind of a mess.

>>49319286
That sounds really really stupid.

>>49318342
There's no real equivalent for copying moves a la the mystic weapons - there's a 3pp monster tamer that might work, though.

>>49318069
Fantasy and 40k rules are actual shit even if the models look nice.

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>>49319390

Asellus isn't just a mystic though, she's a half-mystic. Not that you could do a SaGa human in Pathfinder either.

>>49319477
>SaGa Frontier
Flashing back to the late 90's HARD.
Only years later did I realize that nearly every main character in that game represented some kind of then-popular anime or manga genre.

>>49314349
I think the only things still missing are bullet-hells, missile swarms, and sniper rifles (that snakeshot crossbow was a good start though).

I greatly enjoyed the alternative elements such as time, so making sure they're well supported in view of newer materials would be a treat.

>>49319569
I'm such a lazy ass when it comes to the KOP 1 elements, I'm seriously going to have to remember that. And I was just thinking earlier today about if it was worthwhile trying to make some kind of vigilante talent that let you Macross Missile storm with magic missile, but flurry of blast kind of does that already for the kineticist in a weaker sort of way.

>>49319051
I thought it was by displacing some of our towns to build a gigantic low quality wall between us and one of our major trade partners, that we will then pretend we're charging to them as an excuse for pocketing the majority of the funds meant to build said wall, leaving the trade partner angry, our people forced out of their homes, our taxpayers ripped off and the alien cat atop our head purring its contentment at our offerings to its dead world.

The fuck's some paperwork gonna do?

>>49319162
The molestation is not intended to keep muslims from planes: Without terrorism, how could they keep groping you worse and worse?

The molestation is molestation, and the muslims on planes are muslims on planes. This is this, that is that.

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>>49319703

>mfw they think the molestation is limited to planes in America

Haven't been to the theater lately, huh?

>>49319613
More ways to get abilities and useful combat stuff would be nice. I'm thinking things like wands, scrolls, rods, etc for kineticists too.

>>49319477
Yeah, but the only thing that differentiates her from a normal human is her mystic skills.

>>49319744
>>49319340
>>49319781
Try lithium, lil kida!

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>>49319723

Why is Mercy so perfect.

How would you make Mercy in Pathfinder? Aasimar Life Oracle?

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>>49319949
>replying to Nightfall

Please just let him autismosudoku until the mods gain enough sense to ban the shit?

>>49319965
Assimar Oradin.

>>49319965
Merciful healer cleric. All her abilities are (Ex) instead of (Su) and require a staff as a focus component.

>>49319505

SaGa Frontier should've been an anime

>>49319965
Vitalist.

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And let's not forget that Reinhardt is a Barbarian that thinks he's a Paladin..

>>49319986
>mods gain enough sense to ban the shit?
they never do though. this site has been spiralling for years.

>>49319613
One good way for missiles would be to fire off multiple shots each of which has a small radius. If done right it would be a mutation rather than an ability; higher single target damage IF it has no resistance/hardness.

just one missile per attack is boring and nothing's stopping one from say, going "two per attack but each gets half the static bonuses". It's so boring when we get just like 4-5 shots at 20th...

Can give the simples a splash to help, and a real 5' radius vs touch IF you successfully hit the main target?

The chrono-missiles and other untypeds could simply do their lowered (d3/2d3) damages to compensate.

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>>49319965
>Why is Mercy so perfect.

Because they all think Mei is bae, until they need Mercy to be nursey.

>>49319972
>If you
No thanks. Prefer not to speak with silly boys.

>>49320031
Doesn't mean you can't flood their notice box with enough reports to get someone to at least delete his posts.

>>49319986
>>49320031
Just fucking report him.

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>>49320023

Hold the fuck up, Reinhardt is a proper chivalrous knight, he's fought dragons you know!

Catchphrase!

>>49320057
>implying I haven't already been at it

>>49319965
Aasimar Medic maybe?

Would you rather have 4th level spellcasting from ANY spell list, or gestalt with fighter?

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>>49320188
Spellcasting.

>>49320188
Any as in choose one at character creation or any as in choose from all of them every time I prepare spells?

>>49320188
>or gestalt with fighter
Like, I assume you mean "gestalt fighter and a caster", which is kind of a weak combo unless you go for divine casting.

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>I roll to intimidate the enemy bandits by flourishing my spear to showcase my skills
>Rolls a nat 1

>>49320188
I'd rather play a Wizard and gestalt with a Fighter than only get 4th level spells and no Fighter gestalt.

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>>49320242
Shitty DMing, desu.

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So for a character with one arm and a scimitar as well as a blade cape would it be worthwhile to try and build him as a crit fisher?

>>49320298
>There should be no skill checks

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>>49320298
Just need better luck is all

>>49320309
>scimitar
>critfisher
The answer is always yes
Unless you can somehow get free falcata proficiency

>>49320327
I should get around to watching that so I can understand what's going on.

>>49320295
>>49320240
>>49320218

At character creation you get to choose.

You never get to cast any spells and you get to gestalt with fighter.

>>49320242
I remember a game years ago. Some lady got pushed out off the top of a castle. The player playing the fighter said, "I'm going to throw my greatsword so she can slide down it and land safely on the ground."

The GM says, "Alright, whatever. Roll it."

Natural one. "Well, you throw your greatsword at the lady but miscalculate. It flies at her and will clearly cut her in half."

"Hold it," I interjected. "My barbarian throws his great axe at the fighter's greatsword to knock it askew so he doesn't kill the lady."

Natural 1.

"Well, both of your massive weapons fly at the poor lady as she plummets towards the moat below her where she probably would have survived had you two not intervene. In the last moments before she is cut into pieces by your weapons she briefly wonders what god she angered to die in such a ridiculous way."

>>49320343
>4th level casting
>never cast spells
Fuck you, that's not even a choice.

>>49320343
But why wouldn't I get to cast spells? If I'm playing a Wizard gestalted as a Fighter I should be casting spells, that's the whole point of a Wizard.

>>49320348
Man, they better have ponied up some cash to raise her.

>>49320364

You only get to gestalt with fighter if you can't cast spells.

>>49320336
I'm just trying to think of a way to keep a character missing one entire arm relevant so I kinda figured it would be the best way to go about it

>>49320365
Didn't have the chance. The king thought we were part of the assassin group that was trying to murder his wife, and wouldn't believe us when we insisted that her death was simply an accident, so we had to flee the country after he decided to execute us.

>>49320370
Okay. I'll make a Psion and gestalt with a Fighter.

>>49320336
>Unless you can somehow get free falcata proficiency
Falcata Swashbuckler archetype?

>>49320389
Man. Years later I want them to wish her body back and then wish her back to life. The least you could do for that type of accident. Who even thinks using a great sword to break your fall is a good idea?

>>49320309
What would be worthwhile to try would be regeneration. Or a graft, or a prosthetic replacement...

Maybe the kind that's also a giant energy weapon.

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>>49320337
Ancient Heroes fighting each with crazy abilities and stats

Like Lancelot fighting Gilgamesh who shoots ancient and powerful weapons out of a magic gate like they're arrows instead of swords and spears

>>49320414
Oh, I know. I've played both Stay and Ataraxia. I just never got around to Zero.

>>49320414

Shame about the lack of animated Tamamo, though.

>>49320309
>character with one arm
Think about Scarlet Throne maneuver?

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>>49320414
The fights are visually cool even if the story suffers from so many bad anime cliches.

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>>49320430
I need more Nero in my life personally

What is a good thing to gestalt with Life Oracle if I want to make a solid support character? If it helps any, I want to make the character a Tiefling built around being a weird northern storyteller and obsessive hearth keeper.

>>49320492
Paladin!

>>49320492
Hospitaler Paladin. This is the best possible setup for a 1pp only healer in the system.

>>49320430

>Tamamo in the anime

Oh my god please no, of all the characters in the Nasuverse she is the only one that would be the weebiest, fan-service character imaginable.

>>49320507
>>49320522

Hospitaler Paladin it is then.

Odd, I could've sworn it would be Skald/Oracle.

>>49320492
Absolutely Paladin.

Take Fey Foundling at 1st level and the Tiefling favored class bonus in Paladin, and your self-targeted Lay on Hands will make you nearly impossible to kill even with Life Link active with your whole party.

>>49320537
Just remember, the trick is to after taking Hospitaler to eventually prestige into Holy Vindicator

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I don't 100% get how size modifiers work.
How small can I make a Sylph? Like what's the smallest hight I can give it before it becomes a small creature or some kind of actual freak.

Assume female

>>49320563

4'11 is generally accepted as the absolute smallest a woman can get before things enter "midget" territory.

>>49320563
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/_/rsrc/1452829556614/images/size-comparisons.png

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>>49314300
Hey guys just need some help here, im building a Magus and my party is at 10th level, how many combat feats do i get? and what combat feats should I take?

Is it just me or is Pathfinder only fun at low-middle level?

Anything below 3 is rusty dagger shanktown game where a crit is a certain dead.

Anything higher than 10 is just a number calculation game or SoD game. Where dead isn't even a major setback.

>>49320719

This is was the rationale behind creating E6 Tbh

>>49320719
Nope, the game basically has these bands of levels:

>level 1-3: rusty dagger shanktown
>level 3: the lowest level you should start
>levels 5-10ish: decently functional game. Level 6 is a very good place to start.
>levels 11-12ish: game begins to start falling apart, but is still playable
>levels 13-16ish: game is a mechanical wreck but if this is the capstone of your campaign, should be fun
>levels 17-20: game has left sanity and functional mechanics behind, taking flight and becoming a glorious icon of complexity

>>49320802
Is e6 FUN though?

>>49320836
What makes you prefer level 6 to start?

>>49320836
What about level 4?

>>49320865
Fuck level four.

>>49320865
> being this out of touch
Yea I just skip level 4 and get right to 5 desu

>>49320868
>>49320899
But the Druid's Wild Shape, the Paladin's Channel Energy, the Sorcerer and Oracle's 2nd level spells, and the Ranger's Animal Companion all come online at level 4

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What penalties would I incur trying to use a great sword without proficiency.

>>49320921
-4 on attack rolls.

>>49320865
Level 6 is where the following stuff happens:
>Spontaneous casters get 3rd-level spells (so they aren't gypped for daring to not play prepared)
>Bonus feat FCBs come online, helping people build easier
>Most classes have hit their stride and delivered their core features
>You're past the very low levels but haven't hit the super strong stuff yet
>If you're full BAB, you have a second attack in a full attack now
>6-level casters have some stuff to do and get 3rds next level, but also have their class features to help them keep up
>If you've got someone using PrCs, they've just entered the first level of theirs, letting them begin the game as their actual concept. More relevant in 3.p or games involving 3pp stuff.

>>49320865
>>49320909

I don't like it. Level 4's a weird level where you're just barely competent, but don't have any particularly cool shit yet. I'd rather play at 3, and have a longer time of "low-level" than start at 4 and then immediately hit 5 and the game changes it implies.

>>49320909
Yeah, fuck level 4.

>>49320954
I was joking when I said I skip level 4.

On a side note I had no idea 4chan changed to be honest into desu, desu

>>49320982

Yeah it's a real fucking shame Tbh

>>49320993
Nah, it's pretty amusing senpai.

>>49320982
You might have been joking, but I actually am serious there. Level 3's a good start, level 5-6 is a good start, but level 4 just feels... Wonky.

>>49321018
Given spontaneous casters I think 4 would be better than 3, even if 3 sounds better.

Does anyone have a link to that trove of Roll20 tokens that guy mentioned a few threads ago? He didn't actually give a link.

>>49321032
Hmm, yeah, that's true. I'd sooner houserule them to get their spells at 3 desu. Just bump them up a level.

Are there any spells or spell-likes similiar to Damnation Stride? The only other thing I can think of that's close is the kineticists Ride The [Lightning]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghlIWvkRwtQ

>>49320982
baka desu senpai

>>49318604
This, but treat common soldiers as swarms of humans.

>>49318749

Lion or elephant are cool if you want to go for the exotic. Note that if you want to take a fancy mount, you need the beast rider archetype or DM permissions

>>49320408
Half-elf with ancestral arms works as well.

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How do I pic related, 1pp only?

I'm assuming Suli, but some kind of weird White-Haired Witch/Druid (the new transformartions in Half-Genie Hero)/Bard combo?

>>49321949

>the new transformartions in Half-Genie Hero

?

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>>49321977
Well, in addition to the old Monkey, Elephant, Spider, and Harpy forms, she's got a new Crab form and there's been proposals for Bat, Tiger, Lizard, and even Naga and Succubus.

So that's like 3 different Druid archetypes and a Wizard spell right there.

>>49322077
Oh, were spider and harpy from the gameboy game? I only remember monkey, elephant and mermaid. I'm totes excited for the game, though!

>>49319965
>>49320082

The Medic has an Angel of Mercy archetype, even!

Shame it has one ability that sorta defines it as melee-only...

Hey guys i need some gm'ing advice. I am running a pathfinder game for about 9 months now with a stable base of 4 players. They changed characters quite a bit throughout the campaign (now lvl 9) and now consists of a female evil drow wizard(only character that was there since the campaign started, a lawful good halfling alchemist, a half elf cleric of urgathoa /agent of the grave, an undead hating dhampir slayer and a human good aligned cleric (no specific deity). The slayer and the cleric are played by the same player. After they got tricked by the last bbeg into crating a rift through the inner sea region, basically cutting andoran in 2 pieces and wrecking the whole inner sea region with the resulting tsunamis, the cleric came up with the idea to found a state of undead between andoran and Cheliax. I am pretty on board with that idea and gave him the opportunity to start with a small base(temple of urgathoa), the drow wizard is also into it. The cleric of urgathoa managed to convince the others to stick around because they wanted to prevent him from fucking shit up, however they got pretty triggered by the temple of urgathoa and are now kinda plotting to kill the necromancer. However i want to continue the undead Kingdom storyline and it is basically 2vs2 players on the matter but in a fight since it is 2 vs 3 PCs the cleric would probably go down but a deus ex machina to help him would probably suck for the other players. How should i approach this?

>>49322363
Talk to the players and ask what their opinion on the plot line is.

>>49321649
Troops. Works better.

>>49322701
>>49321649

troops and swarms are both shit

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>>49322751
You're poop.

>>49322771

And troops are hot shit, and only exist as a homebrewed template based off of a single monster paizo made for a specific adventure with a specific enemy type

>>49320414
Beserker Lancelot is basically the only part of the fate series I like.
His entire design, and fighting style picking up anything ever and using is fucking great.

what's /pfg/'s favorite servant? Hard mode:Not pretty much every shitters favorite of Iskandar, Artoria, or EMIYA

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>>49322816

>>49322816

Nightmare Mode: Name 5 servants that aren't Seiba

>>49322846
Easy: Caster, Lancer, Saber, Assassin, Berserker, Archer, Rider, and Avenger.

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>>49322816

Servant TORAKU

>>49322382
We aren't that long into the plotline, the necromancer announced his plan 2 sessions ago. The necromancer is totally into it. The wizard aswell, she's banking on a high ranking position in the state. The alchemist says its epic but problematic with the characters and from the last player lf the cleric and slayer i haven't got a response yet

>>49322846
Emiya, Gilgamesh, Medea, Alexander, and Mysterious Heroine X

Do I have to pick improved critical (cestus) or do I have to pick improved critical (unarmed) if I'm using cestus?

>>49323266
Cestus.

Drop Dead Studios release anything lately?

>>49322816
Lancer in general.

>>49323309
Thanks, I assumed that but the description kept mentioning that I use unarmed attacks and that led me to confussion

Another question, and the answer is more subjective, I'm retaking an old character (Hungry ghost, master of many styles and qiggong monk) from an old game and I have Panther, Snake and Dragon, which other two styles should I pick that go well with these three?

The old character was pre errata (now ignore prerequisites with the STYLE feats) and my GM still allows this because I'm CBR Monk and not Unchained Monk.

>>49323407
I'm not TOO well versed on Styles, but... maybe Wolf?

>>49323313
They're just working on the handbooks now. I think they've got like four of them in the works?

>>49323419
Not him but
>Combat maneuvers
>Without ridiculously high bonuses
Nope. Being a hungry ghost he has punishing kick and if he's smart he also has vicious stomp

>>49323485
>Punishing Kick

Ahh, righto. Forgot Hungry Ghosts had that.

Why do Hungry Ghosts have that? It's not very Hungry Ghosty...

>>49323523
It's more weird it's neither a monk feat nor an option for 1st level on Unchained Monk. Same with elemetal fist or whatever

>>49320408
ALTERNATIVELY

Take a dip into Medium. Always channel the Guardian spirit. You get +1 to hit (makes up for BAB loss), +3 to damage (+2 can be shared with your buddies), and free EWP. As in, you can change what weapon you want to be proficient in each morning, in case you wanted to switch things up with a bastard sword or estoc.

>>49323656
Yeah, it's very much a sort of 'pick one at first level' thing.

Stunning Fist, Elemental Fist, Punishing Kick, maybe one other. That's one damage and two 'fuck with people' moves, so maybe like... Some kinda monk version of vital strike for when they gotta move and then attack, and thus can't flurry?

Although I suppose Flying Kicks are a thing now. Hum

>>49322816
Gilly Rays, the Greatest Kuuuru!

Is there still no link for the first volume of Strange Aeons?

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Has anyone ever played Abridged Alucard?

>>49323393
Ah! Lancer died.

Ded

>>49324080
Every other character.

[s]the other half are anderson[/s]

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So after a few days of looking around I haven't found anything resembling a classic "tank" class. I'm talking forcing enemies to focus on me and then surviving their attacks. I convinced the DM to let me make my own class but he gave me the stipulation that /pfg/ had to help me make and and approved of its balance. Using pic related he is willing for something in the tier 2 to 3 range since that's where the res of the party is. We technically play 3.P but we mostly just use pathfinder stuff now. That being said everything is available to use to help me craft this class.

My first step will be just reading everything I already have and noting down anything that seems directly related to the class idea. Then I'll jumble what I have into a lose 1-20 level class. From there I'll post it up here for yall to utterly rip apart and then I'll pick up the pieces and reshape it based on yall's recommendations.

Right now I'm just asking for any advice on making a 1-20 level class and if you guys know of any home brew classes that are tanks or close to them I can look at.

In total my vision for this class will focus on 3 things. Survival, locking down enemies, and punishing enemies that I threaten when they do anything other than punch me. This includes them casting spells. So probably many AoO.

Which AP gives me the highest potential to make a massive heart-throb character?

>>49324509
Kingmaker. It actively encourages you to have ludicrous charisma due to the ruler needing that for kingdom stability.

>>49323313
Vigilantes of Skyborne and The Luchador (Luchador borrows some Vigilante mechanics)

Vigilantes of Skyborne is actually pretty fuckin dope.

>>49324506
What in the flying fuck is that image.

>>49323313
DDS is also pretty close to finishing their first Bestiary for Spheres of Power

The cover is pretty great. To me it looks like each head has a different level of awareness of what is about to happen to them.

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>>49324808
Forgot to add the picture.

>>49324506

You literally just described the Warder class from DSP, anon.

>>49323313

Vigiilante's of Skyborne and The Luchador was recently released. The Alteration, Dark, Time, and War handbooks are all in playtesting and I know of at least 2 others that want to enter playtesting, the Bestiary is being worked on, and a few other sphere's related books are in the works.

>>49324506
I know of two classes that fit that description.

One is the Guardian from Little Red Goblin Game's Alternate Paths Martial character's.

The other is the Monk of the Silver Fist Archetype from Dreamscarred Press' Path of War Expanded. Or a character with the right disciplines.

There is also the mentioned Warder, but it's pretty poorly designed so I wouldn't recomend it.

>>49325015
Since DDS has been buying up Ssalarn's new stuff did they acquire arcforge?

>>49325138
Not to my knowledge.

>>49325151
Life is suffering.

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>>49324486
ctrl+s for spoilers anon, otherwise if on mobile you're supposed to spell out the word "spoiler" instead of just typing an "s"

Has anyone ever played the Thornkeep module? How as it? Would you recommend it?

>>49325113
>Warder
>pretty poorly designed
Care to share your reasoning for that? In my opinion and experience, the Warder is one of the best designed PoW classes.

>>49325293
It's good in that it's functional and fun to play a build.

It's poorly designed in the sense the class doesn't do what it was intended to do well but that has more to do with the fact that PF will always reward hyper offense over defense.

>>49325113
Wait, how is the Warder poorly designed?

>>49325293
>>49325334
Anything that trivializes encounters is poorly designed.

Don't be retard like the guy from last thread and bring up full casters, they are also poorly designed.

In general Path of War classes are full of poor design. The most valuable section of the book was the archetypes for non-initiator classes.
>>49325332
Has a good explanation too.

>>49325332
Eh, I think you're confusing the issue a little. Warder does what it is meant to do. However, as a fundamental flaw of the system, it's still better off going for offense over defense, because offense is that much stronger.

If you want an offensive class, warder is rarely the best choice (though still a good one). If you want a defensive class, warder is an excellent choice.

How would you convert spellthief to PF? I know the class is basically functional, do just slide in the condensed skills and give them infinite cantrips like every other caster?

>>49325332
>It's poorly designed in the sense the class doesn't do what it was intended to do well but that has more to do with the fact that PF will always reward hyper offense over defense.

Defensive Focus and Armiger's Mark don't make it a good defensive class?

>>49325446
There's a homebrew going around I think. It might be in the pastebin.

>>49325455
Think he meant

It's poorly designed NOT in the sense the class doesn't do what it was intended to do well but that has more to do with the fact that PF will always reward hyper offense over defense.

My view on Warder is that you can build it super offensive with little to no impact onits ability to tank, surviveability, or amazing saves.

>>49325515
What would PF need to make defense worth it?

>>49325530
Actually make combat nuanced enough that "deal damage first" or "have spells" aren't the ultimate strategies in the game.

Heck, if you were to take PoW Counters and make them into a more integrated system, that could be a good start.

>>49325530
It was already decently worth it. Only the most hyper optimized builds and parties think defenses have no value.

Monk of the Silver fist is great as is the Guardian. You can find a lot of LRGG stuff for free on their wiki, so check it out if you want.

Tell me, would it be feasible for someone in Golarion to invent bicycles and unicycles?

Would it be too much to build a Grippli Rubato with Perform (Unicycle)?

>>49325406
wtf I hate warders now

Are there any good Pathfinder podcasts or RPGpodcasts that /pfg/ recommends?

>>49325515

You... You do realize tanks have huge cannons on them that are designed to fuck shit up, right?

The point of a tank is to take hits *and* deal copious amounts of damage. This is something the Warder does very well, it can force every enemy to focus on them and plink off the Warder's armor while they're picked off.

Or are you suggesting a scenario where a "good defensive character" is one that just walks into the middle of the field and does nothing?

>>49325588
>Would it be too much to build a Grippli Rubato with Perform (Unicycle)?

O shit waddup here come DAT BOI.

Serious answer is the Middle Ages were terrible for bicycles, which would be a bitch to ride on all but the smoothest roads.

>>49325611
There is a difference between "Deals damage" and "Deals almost as much or more damage than dedicated damagre dealers deslers while being harder to kill and making your allies harder to kill."

>>49325657
Except the other Path of War classes can deal more damage than a Warder easily at high levels of optimization and the Warder.

File: Can't stop the rock.jpg (338KB, 687x1000px) Image search: [Google]

338KB, 687x1000px

>>49325611
>The point of a tank is to take hits *and* deal copious amounts of damage.
This.
The Rock is what all true Warders should strive to be.

>>49325657
I think the point that he was making is that real life tanks are often both very defensive and offensive, so the notion of "tanky" shouldn't just be "can take a lot of hits"

>>49325670
I already said they are all poorly designed didn't I?

The most valuable section of Expanded is the archetype section becaise they have some semblance of usability.

>>49325703
So by your logic, Barbarians are poorly designed.

>>49325703
So they're poorly designed because they can do lots of damage? I'm not sure I follow.

>>49325703
Except the aren't though. Not by a long shot and I don't understand why you think the archetypes are any better. The only issue with Initiators is that high level strikes do too much damage for too little effort.

>>49325682
And in actual game practice the Warder fails at this by being too good at this. Why bring a Stalker or Warlord when you can bring a Dervish Warder and Zweihander sentinel.

>>49325722
I don't think I've ever heard that complaint brought up here.

>>49325682
>I think the point that he was making is that real life tanks are often both very defensive and offensive

That's exactly what I was trying to say, a tank is not just a block of armor with an engine on it, it's a well-oiled killing machine designed to enter the battlefield and destroy everything in it's way.

That is what the Warder is designed to do, and it does this thing very well; as >>49325680 worded it, the Warder is meant to be a rock that enemies smash against and end up broken.

>>49325715
Barbatians sacrifice survivability to adh face. Warder sacrifices nothing.

>>49324767
It sorts different classes into tiers and gives them a power rating. It then attempts to balances the party power level by adjusting how much exp is needed to level in that class. A tier 1 class levels much more slowly and a tier 6 class levels much more quickly. So Lets say you have a tier 1 a tier 2 and 2 tier 5 PC's. After a traditional 10 levels worth of exp the tier 1 would be level 8 the tier 2 would be level 9 and the 2 tier 5's would both be level 13's. The left side of the image breaks down how much exp each specific power level needs to level. This is good for multi classing. A fighter 1 wizard 1 wont be the same power level as a wizard 2.

My group uses it to make sure everyone has more or less the same power level since we do a lot of in group fighting.

>>49324969
Thanks I'll look into it.

>>49325113
Thanks I'll look into those as well. If I can find something that works I wont even need to make my own class.

>>49325764
It's way too complicated of an image. It's a pain in the butt and easily forgettable.

>>49325764
The Guardian should be in Little Red Goblin games wiki.

Why do people say the Kinetecist is a weak class? It seems pretty powerful to me, what with kinetic blasts having the damaging power of first-level spells with no scale cap, not to mention some of the 0-Burn talents being rather powerful,like Flame Jet, on paper at least.

Does the nonlethal damage from burn just end up being too much in practice?

>>49325737
>>49325761
>warlord
>barbarian
But they easily are more destructive than any warder.

Even stalkers are really good at killing, it's just that they can't do much else and they have a lackluster recovery.

Just because the warder has good defense and offence doesn't mean that all other damage dealers are invalid. PF is a game that rewards hyper offence after all.

>>49325761
>Barbatians sacrifice survivability
>Gain massive ammounts of temp hp, DR, save bonuses, movement speed, and further rage powers that boost in combat healing
>vs a small penalty to AC
>sacrificing defense
bruh, you even trying?

File: 1456526104961.jpg (18KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 600x600px

>>49325778

>>49325793
No, I genuinely don't know.If you don't tell me, I'll never know, will I?

>>49325793
As someone who has only heard memeing about the kineticist being shit-tier and haven't looked at it, I'd also like to know why they're so bad

>>49325776
>It's way too complicated of an image.
I agree but its what I have.

>It's a pain in the butt and easily forgettable.
Not really. At level up after you pick your next class you just look at the chart and write down how much exp you need to the next level. Theres even a spot on the character sheet for noting how much exp you need to level.

>>49325783
No Barbarian will ever be able to match the Warder's defense. A Warder can definitely come very close or exceed a Barbarians offense.

>>49325827
>A Warder can definitely come very close or exceed a Barbarians offense
Show me some numbers then

>>49325778
Kinetic blasts are your only constant damage dealer, require either self damage or sacrificing action economy to get to decent damage, being forced to hurt yourself for your powers is a stupid concept, and most of the 1pp elements are kinda trash since they don't ovver enough class utility to be practical aside from Air or Aether. The class is a bloated mess, is difficult to navigate, and overall why would you play one when its much better to play either a sorcerer or a magus?

>>49314374
>tongue ring item
I can't say much without hearing your player's take on the situation, but this alone is making me call bullshit. Item slots exist for a reason. Also, you clearly built the guy like he was a PC, and moreover a munchkin, which while it isn't covered in the DMG obviously raises the CR by a lot.

>>49325849
They likely wont come until a couple hours from now. What level and what restrictions.

May I do it with minimal item invesent? If not is there any specific items you do or dont wanna see.

>>49325873
How about levels 5, 10 and 15? I guess 1pp and all DSP allowed sources?

Minimal or similar WBL and items would probably be better control.

>>49325851
>require either self damage or sacrificing action economy to get to decent damage
Ok, fair enough, but they're still more powerful than a 1pp martial? After all, you can spam these infinitely.

> being forced to hurt yourself for your powers is a stupid concept

Well, Shadowrun seems to pull it off all right.

> most of the 1pp elements are kinda trash since they don't ovver enough class utility to be practical aside from Air or Aether.

Fair enough. Where can I find these third party elements, they don't seem to be on d20pfsrd.

>The class is a bloated mess, is difficult to navigate
Fair enough.

>why would you play one when its much better to play either a sorcerer or a magus?
Thematic reasons? They do seem to have wildly different fluff.

>>49325917
you can spam any full attack ALL DAY(tm) on any 1pp martial. And probably more and easier to not fuck up the build

>>49325905
Ok, gonna go with big six and 20pb humans.

Almost forgot, what disciplines are not allowed.

>>49325849
Up until level 5, Encouraging Roar+ a damage strike will outdamage the barbarian.
7+, Noble Blade plus Rising Zenith strike will outdamage anything short that a good-RNGed hasted full attack.
13+, Ruby Battle Lord's Strike allows the warder standing full attacks at max BAB with an insight bonus on top, and the warder has pounce maneuvers available. This effectively increases the chance of hitting of the second attack by 25%, the chances of the third by 50%, and chances of the fourth by 75%, +10% on top from insight bonus.
15+, 3x STR to damage from Iron Hide Stance comes online. Mighty Rage comes up as an effective +6 to damage, and at 15+ a warder is netting about +9 to damage rolls from this stance at bare minimum.
17+, and Wrath of the Primal Hunter. Pounce that has each attack deal an extra average 14 damage, and ignores DR entirely.

>>49325938
I'd say any disciplines other than cheese with BB weapon group adaptation. Though I guess Primal fury could be broken too.

>>49325937
Full attack is a full action, blast is a standard. But I see your point.

But on a more specific note, how crippling would you say the burn damage is, is it something to make me steer clear of the class completely if I wanted to play it?

>>49325944
But how much of that is specific to warder? Warlord seems to be able to all that too.

>>49325917
>Ok, fair enough, but they're still more powerful than a 1pp martial? After all, you can spam these infinitely.

I think your mistake is thinking that their ALLDAY damage is something passable. Ever 1d6 is,on average, 3.5 damage. So level 10, using your composite blast (we're assuming you used Gather Power to avoid burn), is 10d6, which averages 35 damage. Yeah, you've probably got like 2 from Con and a bit from overload, but you're also unable to use deadly aim, power attack, rapid shot, or any other kind of steroid feat. And you have to deal with elemental resistances

>>49325937
>>49325976

Also, where could I find those aforementioned third-party elements?

>>49325987
Kineticists of Porphyra. Apparently they're in the Trove (which is in the pastebin in the OP), but I haven't been able to find them.

>>49325979
Isn't this more about Warder vs Barbarian than it is about Warder vs Warlord?
Everyone knows the Warlord is better at DPR than the Warder is already.

>>49325987
also avant guard from DSP (probably in trove)

>>49325976
Blast isn't really a standard. You need to Gather Power to avoid murdering yourself with Burn, because otherwise you are doing Sneak attack damage, once a turn, without the addition of weapon damage or an ability mod (okay, 1/2 Con, but that's kind of pathetic)

>>49325917
>you can spam these infinitely
So can a Rogue, that's not a selling point

>shadowrun
1) different system
2) I assume it's "do thing to get thing, take damage to make it better". For the Kineticist it's "take damage to make it useable".

>3pp stuff
http://paizo.com/products/btpy9ilq?Kineticists-of-Porphyra

>>49325952
Ok just got out of class, got on a PC in the library, and I'm making the characters. Just so we're clear the builds are to test my assertion that a Warder focused on offense will be tankier than a Barbarian with investment in defenses (Non-dumped dex, Beast Totem, Superstition, decent wisdom) Said Barbarian wont take any options to further lower defenses like come and get me.

>>49325917
You know what else is "spammable infinitely"? A fucking longbow. No, "but you can only carry so many arrows!" doesn't counter that, because if you're running out of arrows it means you've fucked up massively by not killing everything in a ten mile radius while going turret mode.

>B-but kineticist has these powers to-
Eldritch Archer Magus does almost everything the 1pp kineticist could hope to achieve, but better. And without killing itself to do so.

>>49326025
> I assume it's "do thing to get thing, take damage to make it better"

No, its "use thing, take a resistance check to not take mental damage". But I guess the thematics of shadowrun is different from the thematics of a fantasy world that Pathfinder is for,so that comparison was probably ill-advised.

>>49326014
It seems to me that kind of argument was a Primal Fury, Scarlet Throne and other disciplines in general are too strong, more than warder is a stronger class that barbarian. And dsp is at least recognizing that Primal Fury, Broken Blade and PoW1 as a whole needs some errata and adjustment.

>>49326055
>because if you're running out of arrows it means you've fucked up massively by not killing everything in a ten mile radius while going turret mode
Please anon.

20 miles.

>>49326055
>You have to play the best possible thing no matte r what.

>>49326053
That sounds good to me. Good luck on the builds

>>49326053
I'd be interested to also see it run up against Primal Disciple Barbarian

>>49326091
>crb monk without archetypes is OK because you don't have to play the best option always

>>49316674
Don't. Get regular creative instead.

>>49326091
>>49326127
>crb VoP monk is ok because you don't have to play the best option always

>>49326055
>Eldritch Archer Magus
How cool is this archetype? I wonder about the melee focused spell list not meshing well with it.

>>49326124
Warder vs Barb man here. I'm the guy who got the Primal Disciple nerfed. it used to have almost all of its rage powers and class features. My feedback is what got it to trade more.

Also I am gonna use only Path of War Expanded disciplines and Iron Tortoise. Mithril Current and Elemental Flux are my other two.

Just finished making their Point buys, populating feats and rage powers.

>>49326207
>vop hungry ghost /master of many styles /qiggong with automatic bonus progression
Might work

>>49326127
>>49326207
>Using the far extreme as the example
S'agood slippery slope y'got there.

>>49326230
It stacks with Hexcrafter, letting you snag hexes too. There's also plenty of ranged spells (snowball and scorching ray, for two big ones. Acid arrow is also in there I think?) That you can spam if you want. You don't want to spellstrike with EA for most spells, just spell combat, unless you're chuckong cantrips. This is because your spells are probably hitting touch, but arrows hit normal AC. If you miss the arrow, you just missed your spell and lost it.

>>49326278
>automatic bonus progression
Well yeah, that kind of negates the need for equipment so VoP works fine with that.

Was Armor Master's handbook published before or after Vigilantes came out?

How reasonable is RAI that http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-armor/shifting-jerkin works on Vigilante Talents as well?

>>49326304
So the extra arrow damage isn't worth it on spellstrike?

>>49326356
>If the wearer has a talents class feature

Vigilante Talents are a talents class feature, even though the parenthetical only lists those three.

Use with SoP for cheese with the Magic Talents class feature.

>>49326356
Armor Master's came out before Ultimate Intrigue. Since the vigilante ability is called "vigilante _talents_" I'd assume it'd work.

>>49326401
If it's a cantrip and you want the extra attack? Go for it senpai. If it's a scorching ray? Probably better not to spellstrike, just chuck it normally and full attack. The combined damage isn't worth the lower accuracy of putting the spell on arrows, in most cases, at least IMO.

New Thread: >>49326485
>>49326485
>>49326485
>>49326485
>>49326485

>>49324506
If 3.P
Classic 3.5 lockdown builds would do it.
3.5 knight class has a MMO style taunt
Pathfinder Mesmer has a taunt, it also can spam mirror image.