Pathfinder General /pfg/

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>>49302705

What should the distribution of PC class levels among the population be in an E6 game world?

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>>49302705
I've always wanted to just have a portable hole of shitty 1HD skeletons. Maybe Burning ones so they'll accomplish at least something, barring fire resist.

So I just throw it down and cackle 'GO, MY PRETTIES!' while the rattlebones clatter forth.

>>49302740
95% of population should be NPC classes.

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>>49302705
You know what I would like? A summoner that can summon only swarms. Is there something like that?

>>49302751
Burning wouldn't work, since there's no air in the portable hole, so chances are they just come out as smoldering skellies that need some time before lighting up again.

>>49302708
If Sneak Attack damage isn't part of the spell damage, why would it get half by a successful save?

> This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage).

By your logic, Sneak Attack damage shouldn't be affect by successful save since it's not part of the spell.

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>>49302169

There does not seem to be much of a reason to spend +3 metamagic to transform a spell's damage into typeless damage, considering that +1 metamagic can change damage to sonic damage. Typeless damage should be worth +2 metamagic at best, and even then, it should ignore hardness.

The armored spellburst savant really should receive some sort of upgrade, such as ignoring somatic components for spellburst savant spells altogether. The unarmored AC bonus ACF is far better, especially with Mage Armor.

Theurgic Scholarship causes an invalid game state if an inquisition is selected, due to inquisitions not coming with spells.

If you are downgrading Spell Storing effects for spellburst savants, you could also consider slightly downgrading the Ring of Wizardry, which is currently a must-have item for any savants who can afford it.

>>49302804

Fire doesn't require air in magicland lmao

>>49302799
I think there may be a Druid archetype for that, or a Witch who spams all the various swarm related spells

Did anything cute or adorable happen in your last session, /pfg/?

>>49302811

>Sneak Attack damage shouldn't be affect by successful save

Sneak Attack damage isn't affected by a successful save, it's affected by a successful attack roll

>>49302811
That isn't Sneak Attack, that's a different ability that augments it.

Read the actual Sneak Attack text.

>>49302826

I thought of holding hands with you

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>>49302705
>favorite kind of minionmancers

The ones that summon ENDLESS DINOSAURS.

>>49302819
>such as ignoring somatic components for spellburst savant spells altogether
They can just make them into thought or emotion components, freely, and those have almost no downsides.

What are some fun E6 builds for pathfinder? I am playing a ranger currently, but might switch out. Maybe as a Magus/Rogue/Arcane Trickster for a spread of skills and shenanigans?

I'm specifically looking for fun/interesting, I doubt my group is going to need someone as super-damage dealer.

>>49302798

That doesn't say anything about the distribution of PC classes among the 5% though

I would just like to say, to whoever made them, the Emperor class and the radiant sun discipline are really cool. and I hope to be able to play one soon.

>>49302841
TOO LEWD! TOO LEWD! He said cute, you pervert.

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>>49302852

It is not quite "freely," since they have to trade in one component for another. In fact, if they wear light or medium armor, they must always swap out somatic components lest they suffer spell failure.

The unarmored spellburst savant needs not worry about such a thing, and can have higher AC with no speed reduction or armor check penalty via Mage Armor.

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>>49302841

>>49302826
Our group ended up coming across a farm that was destroyed by a group of bandits. It was on fire and inside we saw a pig - one of the players ran in and saved it.

The pig started following us around and it turned into our mascot of sorts. It even ended up defeating the bandit boss.

We all attacked the bandit and knocked him down to 0 hit points, but we were out of actions, he was going to go first next round and we knew he was going to activate his cape of dimension door to escape. But before the round ended the piggy charged him, hit him for 1 damage and knocked him out.

The piggy's now become a proud member of our adventuring group.

>>49302819
>>49302908

>There does not seem to be much of a reason to spend +3 metamagic to transform a spell's damage into typeless damage, considering that +1 metamagic can change damage to sonic damage. Typeless damage should be worth +2 metamagic at best, and even then, it should ignore hardness.

That's fair, since sonic will bypass most things. I'll update it.

>The armored spellburst savant really should receive some sort of upgrade, such as ignoring somatic components for spellburst savant spells altogether. The unarmored AC bonus ACF is far better, especially with Mage Armor.

Well, they can effectively ignore somatic components anyway thanks to converting them to thought, emotion, or verbal as needed. While I do see your point, I'm not sure what to give them. I might instead make the unarmed AC bonus ACF eat something else to balance it.

>Theurgic Scholarship causes an invalid game state if an inquisition is selected, due to inquisitions not coming with spells.
Whoops, forgot that Inquisition was a cleric thing.

>If you are downgrading Spell Storing effects for spellburst savants, you could also consider slightly downgrading the Ring of Wizardry, which is currently a must-have item for any savants who can afford it.
That's fine, it's an important item for many characters. Spell-Storing was downgraded because it was an unintended and overly strong interaction with the ability, but Ring of Wizardry/Runestones of Power/etc being particularly good for them is something I've kept in mind and intended.

>>49302931
That pig had better of gotten animal companion levels.

>>49302826
The party was at a fancy banquet, half-orc flame oracle was having problems getting food from the buffet line because kids kept stealing bread rolls.

They made a bread castle and after a few shits and giggles the oracle got named Bread Emperor.

Bread puns were made. The nobility were known as the Upper Crust.

Also oracle-related, he got the Haunted curse so he was showing tricks to the kids, bread roll flew off in a random direction (read: mine) and beaned my character straight in the face. Previously that session I've already been hit in the face several times by gold coins thanks to the oracle. Wanker.

Paladin tried to hit on a married woman, classic barfight ensued.

Fun times were had overall.

>>49302945
Not yet. We don't have any casters who could take him as a familiar or animal companion. We're thinking of maybe Awakening him later on though when we get enough gold.

>>49302983
>Not giving this heroic pig standalone AC levels.
Tell your GM he a dumb.

>>49302983
Or you know, maybe its time for rule 0 and just let it be " everyone's" animal companion.
Rules are only a suggestion after all.

>>49302705
Big thanks to the dude in last thread who recc'd Psychic Warrior to go into Awakened Blade. Just rocked out with a Oni-Blooded Tiefling with that combo; shit was dope. We had to retreat from the fucking Dragons, due to the fucking dragons killing our Warpriest (twice, as he could not into "DON'T RUN UP AND HIT IT" after getting Breath of Life'd) and making our rogue run away like a like a little bitch for the entire fight.

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>>49302819
>>49302944
I've made the AC bonus ACF eat one of the spellburst savant's level 1 fundamental spells as well as the proficiencies, to help reduce its low-level power and later versatility a bit.

And now, I'm going to bed. Thanks for the feedback, all.

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>>49302944

Allowing the armored spellburst savant to stack Mage Armor atop actual armor could be a start, as would giving them a minor side benefit such as +1 AC, ignoring the speed reduction of medium armor, or reducing armor check penalty.

>>49303037
The thing is, it's not an "armored spellburst savant," it's just a normal spellburst savant. They're meant to be able to use armor, but they're not someone actively focusing on armor to the point of having class features to support it except proficiencies.

I'll get to this later, I think. Will put some thought into it to see about further changes to the AC Bonus feature and the base spellburst savant.

>>49302931
>>49302945
Pigs are great.

It's nowhere near as impressive, since he was a Conjuration Companion, but Boaris the Boar once bullrushed (boarrushed?) a vampire off the hood of our truck, whereupon she got roadkilled.

He was also, overall, the best-rolling member of our party. While his summoner was the worst. Never rolled over a 5, and so missed every attack despite them hitting touch.

OKAY.

I've finished porting the Playtest Spirits of the OA playtest medium to the actual medium, as essentially "secondary spirits". The secondary spirits replace some of the shittier abilities from the final-release medium (getting four different variants of call spirit wtf). I've only ported the original 18 spirits, though I've had to change some of them around to exclude some of the playtest-only material and to cut down on overt complexity (seriously having four different spirits that all interact in weird, esoteric ways wtf Pisszo).

If anybody wants to leave comments or reply, do so on the doc. There's a section at the bottom that includes a space for suggesting more spirits of different alignments (as I've assigned alignments to each of the original 18 playtest spirits).

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QwizRjfkg0inFpMqG22lHdIcIRt9glXY_SyAdFJv-wU/edit

>>49302826

Well, I might be crazy, but I think the emotionally stunted servant/vigilante is falling in love with the gives-no-fucks-and-laughs-when-you-hit-him shield champion. He saved her from drowning, and she spent the evening dressing his injuries, telling him how incredibly dangerous it was going after her like that and calling him "fool".

Of course, she always called him "fool" before that, but she seems slightly less detached when she says it.

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Starting a campaign at level 5 and I'm going to make a Bladebound Kensai. Would it be worth burning 2 feats in order to wear a mithral shirt with 0ACP, or should I simply accept my fate as squish?

Help. Do ranged combat maneuvers deal damage or not?

Say if I had Tempest Gale Style, allowing me to make ranged combat maneuvers. When I make one, do I deal weapon damage as well, or does it only perform the maneuver?

If the latter, what the hell is this;

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/trick-shooter-combat

?

>>49304082
Meant 0 spell fail, my mistake.

>>49304082
The feat that eat up your swift action? No, that is a trap option.

Get bracer of armor or djezet skin instead.

>>49304233

>tfw you will never be a sexy catboi trap wearing skin-tight djezet skin armor

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>>49304281
Begone.

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How do I Tauren in PF, /pfg/?

>>49304489
Literally a minotaur.

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>>49304514
Now if only a GM would ever clear me to play one.

No, really, that's the only reason I'm even asking for a workaround with a more "acceptable" race.

>>49304526
Asterion. It's 3PP, but at least 3PP is easier to pull than a literal monster.

>>49304124
Tempest gale combat maneuvers from afar don't do damage unless they say so.
Tempest gale was being written well before Ranged Tactics Toolbox came out I think and that feat in particular applies to other methods of doing similar things that RTT provided.

>>49299928
>>49303775

This is what I get for not noticing its a new thread

Why so ded?

>>49305025
pfg is always dead at this time.
Source: GMT+8 anon.

Is it just me or is Goetic the most autistic thing that DSP's ever put out? How can anyone justify this overcomplicated, overburdened, overpowered mess of an archetype/class?

>>49302882
Well, assume the population of the world is, for simplicity's sake, 1B (1,000,000,000).

5% of 1B is 50,000,000, meaning there are one hundred million adventurers in the world.

Let's pretend it's a straight declination from there, so 5% per level.

50,000,000 1st-level adventurers with PC levels
5% of that makes 2,500,000 2nd level individuals
5% again means 125,000 3rd level individuals
6,250 4th level
~312 5th level
~15 6th level

There's your distribution for an E6 game, easy peasy.

>>49305133
>meaning there are one hundred million
fifty million*

I just finished running a game, excuse me for a fuckup like that.

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>>49305133

Okay not bad, that's something to discuss at least.

I went with more of an approach of "Level X means you're the best Y on the scale of importance Z"

So, for example, a level 1 fighter signifies he's the best fighter in the village he comes from.

I then went and applied some basic levels of importance from CK2 because it was just handy and convenient. The scale goes: village/subfee, barony, county, duchy, kingdom, empire, continent, world.

So, level 1 fighter = best fighter from his village
Level 2 fighter = best fighter from his barony
Level 3 fighter = best fighter from his county
All the way to level "8" (which in E6 is level 6 + 10? 20? feats) = best fighter in the world

Then you can say "there's an average density of 6 subfees per barony, an average density of 5 baronies per county, an average density of 3 counties per duchy, and 4 duchies in this kingdom, which means that the kingdom of Epuca has 360 level ones, 60 level twos, 12 level threes, 4 level fours, and 1 level 5"

Someone last thread mentioned Ssalarn canceling Arcforge. Last time he and I talked he said that he intended to talk to some other 3PP about picking it up.

Next time I talk to him I'll ask if anyone decided to grab it up.

I do know his Plants, Nature, and some fey themed Akashic release is going into playtest within a month.

Anything else you want me to ask him regarding his upcoming stuff?

>>49305247
Either method works, though yours is better for provincial estimates.
That math is 'literally the whole world, everyone on it from ancient old fucks who can't move without creaking to that newborn who just popped out ten seconds ago".

Mind, that puts an interesting limit on the number of feasible kingdoms. After all, if you've only got 1-2 5th level persons per kingdom, then there's a solid and somewhat realistic limit on the number of kingdoms that exist in the world, alliances and rivalries be damned. Not to mention, the absorption of smaller kingdoms can limit that further, until you're down to at most ten or fifteen kingdoms per continent (pending number of continents, of course), and thus only so many 5th level individuals available to interact with before needing to sail overseas.

Gods fuck do I love worldbuilding but it's 4am and I have class in 8 hours. Good luck with your E6 game, anon.

>>49302740
imo

Anyone who isn't retarded or a layabout has at least 1 PC level. Only invalids or very, very sheltered people would be stuck with just commoner.

Level 3 is notably competent, most soldiers are expected to be able to preform at this standard.

Level 6 is "damn he's good" but by now means legendary, you're just at the limit of human skill.

>>49305247
You can do the D&D2e way of the Druid. There is a hard limit to how many druids of a certain level there can be in a single area, thus you can only reach certain levels if there's an empty slot.

>>49305310
>but by no means legendary
Is obviously what I meant.

>>49305310

>Level 3 is notably competent, most soldiers are expected to be able to preform at this standard

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/orcs/orc
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-0/foot-soldier-human-warrior-1

>>49305338
You think I give a shit about the precedent paizo set?

An army composed of level 1 warriors, Orcish or otherwise would probably imply that the faction is in a pretty bad stat in my worlds..

>>49305353

>paizo

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/orc.htm

>band (30-100 plus 150% noncombatants plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 10 adults, 5 5th-level lieutenants, and 3 7th-level captains)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hobgoblin.htm

tribe (30-300 plus 50% noncombatants plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 20 adults, 1 or 2 lieutenants of 4th or 5th level, 1 leader of 6th-8th level, 2-4 dire wolves, and 1-4 ogres or 1-2 trolls)

>>49305394
Yes, I don't care about the the shanktown crapsack bullshit wizards or any other company made to make PC's seem more important than they really are.

>>49305411
>MY homebrew setting is the BEST and everyone else is WRONG.

>>49305527
I'm not saying mine is the best you dumb motherfucker, I'm saying I don't care what other people right.They aren't right or wrong, that doesn't pertain to my worlds.

Play however you want man.

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How do Scatter Firearms work with Martial Strikes? Spellstrikes?

>>49304867
Wouldn't necessarily say 'forgot', anon. The last communication I got on that project was that it was going to get rewritten after he'd tagged in someone to help out and found fundamental flaws with the concept. One long, resounding, all-consuming silence later, to be likened unto the empty void between the stars, and Mike and we parted ways, with this project staying in DSP.

The 'some other freelancer' that got tagged in was the gentleman that Mike himself had recruited in the first place.

>>49305673
The answer is never 'the spell/strike works on every target hit' and the GM will smack you if you try.

Choose between 'pick one target' and 'doesn't work at all'.

New to pathfinder and DnD in general, question: If you try to trip someone, and you aren't proficient in trip, do you provoke an opportunity attack, my question is if the enemy hits you, does he counter your trip attempt?

>>49306006
No, he doesn't. He hits you, but you still get to try and trip him - barring special circumstances such as he entngles you, he paralyzes you, stuns you, etc. Even if he blinds you, you still get to trip hm, but at -4 to hit and a 50% miss chance for being blind.

Tripping someone isn't a spell, after all.

>>49306006
Here's a guide for combat maneuvers: Don't_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

>>49306065
Why? they seem to be a nice way of affecting the combat beyond dealing damage

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>>49306080

>>49306126
Like I said, I'm new to this, did I miss something?

>>49306136
Monster CMD scales faster than any other monster defense in the game. It's an infeasible strategy.

>>49306136
Combat maneuvers are objectively and significantly worse than just attacking normally.
>Without a feat, every combat maneuver provokes an AoO
>If you get hit, it adds the damage taken as a penalty to the roll
>It goes against the enemies CMD which is almost always higher than their AC if they're not a caster
>If you fail the check by 10 or more, the maneuver you were trying to do happens to you
>You deal no damage that round

>>49306006
Tripping is only worth it if you can combo Punishing Kick and Vicious Stomp.
Which means not tripping since neither require trip.

>>49302705
If you see a player or a DM who talks about "loli", report him to the police because he's definitely a pedophile.

>>49306080
>seem to be
is the operative phrase.
TL;DR the math in this game is fucked and the best way to beat encounters if you're not a wizard is to apply as much raw damage to the enemy's face as possible as quickly as possible.

>>49306080
Like half the monster in bestiary entry are immune to trip after you reach level 7 or so.

>>49305247
So is this lesbian granny kinsalyer empress trying to /ss/ her own son and everyone is pleased?

>>49306244
But that kick only seems useful if you're or a high level monk or a hungry monk (whatever that is)

>>49306244
Greater trip also works with those two feats

>>49305310
Actually, it's only Commoners who are absolute 100% shit.

The other NPC classes aren't bad, for what they are. Warriors have good proficiencies, HD and BAB, for instance. Adepts are casters and have a familiar.

>>49306282
>all fights must be against monsters
I hate this meme.

>>49306704

But anon! It's impossible to create compelling mid/high-level humanoid antagonists, that implies you need to *put effort into explaining why they're there.*

>>49306714
You mean like the player characters are?

That takes real imagination all right.

"Only adventurers are unusual humans/elves/wtf" is another trope/meme/bullshit nonsensical vomit that needs to be forgotten.

>>49306698
>That point when the only difference between a level 1 Warrior and a Level 1 Fighter is the Fighter's bonus feat.

And the Fighter has more class skills.

Has anyone here played as the Living Legend archetype for Soulknife? What do you think of it?

>>49306747
I'm actually tired of dealing with medium sized humanoids in every game ever, my GM seems to hate anything remotely fantastic.

>>49306714
That implies NPCs with PC class levels are somehow balanced in the same way monsters are.

Haha.

Funny joke.

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I need to learn this game well enough in a single week to DM for a bunch of other newbs for this weekend

Is it possible?

>>49306906
>in a week

4 hours, tops.

>>49306906
Sure.

>>49306919
Really? I own the book and played all of the old cRPG. This isn't a ruse right? It's important I know how to do this.

Any advice for a campaign?

>>49306934
I'd personally recommend running with an Adventure Path first. because it contains all the necessary information for a GM to roll out with minimal work.

Rise of the Runelords is probably your best bet, as long as you get the anniversary edition. It's pretty friendly to new players and therefore also new GMs, has a pretty classic plot for you to ease yourself into and so on and so forth. Pretty sure it's in the Trove too.

>>49306995
I pirated that one I think, thanks and wish me luck senpai

>>49306481
Greater trip makes the enemy provoke AoO when it's tripped, punishing kick doesn't trip, it makes the oponent fall prone.

>>49307011
Good luck.

As a bit of advice, you should probably make a few characters solo yourself. It'll familiarize you with certain important concepts and let you understand a bit more about the way the game works on a base level for PCs, which will help you in the long run.

>>49307042
Okay, I know sort of the gist of how things go and I figured we'd spend the entire first session creating their characters and doing a test run of sorts

Like a barebones encounter where they (3 of them) fight a single enemy to understand movement and combat. Is that a good idea? I am just nervous that I'm not experienced enough to be the DM

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>>49307067
that's a solid idea, as long as you inform them that they won't be getting experience or loot for this; it's just a way to familiarize yourself with the game mechanics.

I do have a couple other bits of advice though.

First off, DO NOT make unnecessary houserules. If something is negatively affecting your ingame fun, look at it and understand why it's there first. Until you can do that, you should not try to power up or weaken anything.

Second, if one of your players wants to be a gunslinger of some kind, do one of two things; either tell them "no, i don't want guns in this campaign" or use the Guns Everywhere rules. The reason for this is simple; the former just blanket doesn't allow them, but the latter actually makes them usable; in a Very rare, emerging guns, and even commonplace guns setup, they simply aren't useful enough to be worth getting, and will always, in near every way save for targeting touch AC, be beaten out by a longbow. It's not worth punishing players for their choice further.

And, finally, Have fun. This is a game; if people aren't having fun with it, approach them and ask them why, then try to fix that problem. If YOU aren't having fun, figure out why. the key to a game like this is communication; if you can't talk to your players about issues that crop up, you're failing as a GM.

Stunning fist, elemental fist, punishing kick, etc should be among the monk bonus feats tbqhwy

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Besides Tempest Gale and Solar Wind, what are the best disciplines to have available as a gun using initiator?

>>49307132
Any other tips? Like just stuff you can only know after years of experience?

Are there any intelligence based things that get flurry of blows?

>>49307536
Nothing I can point out without knowing more about your gaming group and team composition, unfortunately.

>>49307536
Pathfinder is made for spergs by spergs, so if your players aren't going to get super duper into minuscule character building management, you might consider another game. If your players are the Disgaea types, though, embrace it, because that's what Pathfinder is made for.

>>49307132
>look at it and understand why it's there first. Until you can do that, you should not try to power up or weaken anything.
Man, I'm playing this game for a long while and I still don't understand why Sacred Geometry was ever published or why is the CRB so full of Wizardcocksucking.

>>49307559
First off, what >>49307132 said about unnecessary houserules is true, but conversely you also need to keep in mind that the biggest mistake you can make is always assuming the paizo designers knew what they were doing.

There are a lot of glaring design flaws in pathfinder and you'll really mess up your own sense of good design if you take everything they do as gospel. Experience is what leads you to know how to tell good from bad.

>>49307596
Whoops obviously I meant to reply to >>49307536

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>>49302799
I prefer this kind of swarm

>>49307573
Because like >>49307596 points out, usually the devs have no fucking idea what the shit they're doing.

Understanding why a rule is in PF:
>70%
It was there in 3.5
>12%
Mages are the coolest! Aren't nerds, I mean mages, just so superior, because they are smart, just like me? Not like those stupid jocks, I mean fighters, obviously.
>10%
Trap options reward system mastery by punishing new players. You should have to *earn your fun*, especially when sitting down to a recreational activity played with friends in your spare time.
>5%
I can't do it IRL so it's unrealistic for a heroic warrior with a lifetime of training to be able to do it in game.
>3%
What, you want to do something cool? Sure, let me just write up a spell for that.

>>49302705
I used to be the guy who just summoned an endless storm of bears back in 3.5. If that hasn't changed much then that's still my favourite kind of minionmancer. Although they're less like minions and more like pals when you're already a bear yourself.

>>49307760
I was being quite obviously facetious, m80.

>Me: Can I pick this feat?
>GM: No
>Me: Can I pick this then?
>GM: No, how about you pick one of these three
>GM: I don't meet the requirements for either
>GM gets mad at me because I don't meet the requirements for stuff he wants me to have, never told me, and I don't even like it while saying no to everything I want
Took me long enough realize this game and the GM were uber shit

RE: all y'all E6 boys/

I just wrote up a long ass thing talking about how npcs class levels don't matter as much and you can have your world population be way higher than level 1 but I've only now noticed you fuckers were talking about PC class levels and all these fantastic calculations I've done of npcs classes and a fighter fighting a cat are worthless.

At least I can mention this. Most Fighters that aren't literal newbies are level 2. At level 1, unarmored and with a club, a fighter is going to be able to beat a cat but it won't be a pretty victory, depending on the feats and even luck it might be a real ugly fight. He'll very likely win but a Fighter or anyone that claims to have a profession or hobby or anything relating to fighting should really be able to take on a cat better than that.
The absolutely shitty numbers at level 1 vs level 2 still make a fucking difference while fighting a goddamn cat. At the very very least the extra HP from level 2 do absolute wonders against cats and other nonsense like bats or toads or whatever the fuck else have you. Its much more likely your population base is sitting closer to level 2 than 1. I'm sure there could be arguments made for level 3 too but I'm way past done on this argument.

GM might be running a heavily modified game of Kingmaker next for our group, and this seems like the one setting where a Vigilante would be perfect.

Going to go into Night Terror. Any good archetypes that stack with it? (Not sure if I can convince GM to allow Jolly stuff)
Any interesting ways of fluffing Night Terror, especially in ways that would mesh well with Kingmaker?

Bonus points if it's cute.

>>49306136
As >>49306188 >>49306189
Have explained: For the grand majority of builds and setups combat maneuvers are like status effects in old Final Fantasy games: Something that happens to you, NOT something that ever works when you do it.

Poison!
>Lolno miss
Doom!
>Lolno miss
X-Zone!
>Lolno miss
Stop!
>Lolno miss

Meanwhile when they're done to you, either you're wearing a ribbon or it works, period.


Combat maneuvers in pathfinder are the same deal. The average CMD of a CR25 monster (something a party of level 18s is very likely to run into and fight in practice, even though that's in theory an utterly partywipe encounter; also remember that if you can't have a hope of beating it you probably also can't run or hide from it because movement and senses go up with CR too) is 71.5. Others around CR 18+ have lower averages, but that's mostly due to the presence of caster types who while their NUMBER is way lower (like, mid 50s) are basically going to be flat out immune to the maneuvers themselves due to various protections or simply not being something you can get your hands on in that way.

So, you're looking at having at least +64 if you want a reasonable chance of even succeeding - not that it's a great use of your time - by level 20.

Not only is that extremely difficult to achieve (you have to build your entire character around this) but it does FUCK-ALL half the time because, take trip for example; if the guy's a flyer, fuck you! Incorporeal? Fuck you! A giant fucking slime? Fuck you! Grapple? Better be a tetori monk or it literally won't work on anything past like level 12, because freedom of movement says fuck-you!

So, you could disarm the guy... assuming it's not some giant robot with integrated weapons this won't work on... OR you could attack and kill it.


There's some exceptions mostly in 3pp; you get a free combat maneuver with most tempest gale attacks for example, but from the point of view of learning to play, stay the fuck away, CMB is a trap.

>>49307799
This is the funniest thing I have ever read, I am in literal tears

>grown man with a club gets into a life or death, skin of his teeth fight with a fucking cat

>>49306704
Actually the humanoids are likely to be even BETTER defended in that fashion.

At least a Kraken MAY be on the ground. That enemy fighter is invisible and flying. He has to be, or he wouldn't be an encounter capable of threatning the party in any meaningful way.

That mage has an emergency force-field; when you move in to grapple, you'll hit a wall - quite literally - and on his turn you now turn around and use your various abilities against the party for your new master.

That Druid is immune. That's natural weapons, he can shapeshift or teleport, he's probably about to transform into some eldritch horror from beyond the space anyways, so forget disarm, forget sunder, forget trip, forget grapple (ESPECIALLY GRAPPLE HE MAY BE BETTER AT IT THAN YOU ARE SIMPLY BY TRANSFORMING), just bash his fucking face in.

It's rather annoying, especially coming from GURPS where polearm chokeholds and dis-arming bears is a thing, but the game makes it very very hard - not impossible but it takes some serious system mastery and abusive levels of optimization - to do combat maneuvers.

This is partly due to the d20 system's origins and paizo's continued trek towards casters-first design: There is vancian expendable spells to topple people, therefore the ability to do it all day HAS to be much much much weaker (the same thing was seen in 2e Exalted charm design for dragonblooded, where "but it has to be worse" was applied to such trash abilities that the resulting weakened version could literally be worse than using no abilities whatsoever; in particular several skill-boosting ones you were much better off just rolling the skill)

>>49307933
Just chiming in to say that I don't let the emergency force field spell into my games because it was a mistake to bring that spell back.

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>>49306792
If you're looking for power, don't. It's not going to give you the destructive edge you'd find in a Warsoul Psy-Armory or Tech-Warsoul.

However, It's got this way of being the "fifth man in the party" that's rather spectacular if built right. You're not the fighter, but you're NEARLY as good as he is today at purely killing shit (and you have a second role and better skills and more utility). You're not the cleric, but you DO have domain powers today and can supplement the turning and shit a bit, making you a decent backup.You're not the r... okay yeah sorry pre-unchained rogues the living legend is the rogue today, just sit back and cry let it all out.

The roles let you have different soul weapon enchantment sets, have different abilities, and even when nothing else offer nice skill boosts that are even of good use in downtime.

The blade forms themselves are no Discipline Weapon Shapes or Panoply, but they're better than the original soul-weapons, particularly the utterly trash emulations, and tend to include some emulating capability themselves anyways.

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>>49307876
Reminds me of World of Darkness.

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>>49307510
Elemental Flux
Riven Hourglass
Broken Blade

And my personal special recommendation;
Silver Crane (pic related)

>>49308057
How do you manage a macros missile massacre with Silver Crane?

>>49308024
To be fair, War Soul was not very well thought out at all (Neither was Pathwalker) and the UBW archetype isn't overly strong except at low levels when it can chuck 2d6+d8+wis every round.

Though maybe letting it use wis for both attack and damage at range was a mistake.

>>49308172
Wasn't that because those 2 archetypes were added last second with almost no playtesting? They shoulda saved that ahit for expanded.

>>49308172
Warsoul probably gives up just a bit too little overall, but it's a solid tier 3 capable of plenty of destruction. I do have a special soft-spot for discipline weapon shapes though, due to it being a giant middle finger to the whole "Trap Options: Technology and Guide" book.

The Psy-Armory I find a bit too powerful though; at higher levels, rather than early. This is particularly the case when it inevitably gets merged with warsoul anyways.

>>49308241
Technology guide is a strange book because the items shouldn't have price tags. They should be cool toys the GM drops for you, not giant cash infusions or giant money sinks.

>>49307821
>>49306189
>>49306188
Fuck...I spent 4 feats in tripping and charging (pushing? overruning?) as an Inquisitor

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/monstrous-graft-ex


Monstrous Graft gives you bonuses depending on if the replacement limb is a leg or an arm. However, it doesn't seem to matter which limb is being replaced. Could I replace my arms and legs with dragon arms and gain 4 claw attacks?

>>49308339
The gm can be nice and work with you. In one of my games I let the bard use his whip to trip flying enemies; 'knocked off balance'.

Speaking of Punishing Kick, is there a feat to improve the DC like Mantis Style improves Stunning Fist?

If I use Deadly Agility and then Two-Weapon Fighting, will I be doing half my dex mod in damage on my offhand or do I need Double Slice still?

>>49306276
See Kraken Style, combined with Snapping Turtle Style and Throat Slicer.

You can CDG in 1 turn, using grapples, properly done.

Is there any decent sonic spells for blasting?
I'm playng an imperious sorcerer and it would be nice fluff to shout at lowlifes instead of doing the old burning to a crisp.

>>49308057
>Broken Blade
I had no idea how many maneuvers in there specify "attack" rather than "Melee attack". That's hilarious.

>>49309146
Some dude in my game made a Warder Hawkguard with discipline weapon adaptation Longbow and mostly broken blade maneuvers

>>49309146
Actually, you need to check the Range line as well. That's where most of them get their melee restriction

>>49308339
>not just grabbing spells for that
>not just Power Attack+Judgement+Bane+Precise Strike like every other inquisitor for ludicrous damage.

>>49309333

He already said he was new into 3.PF, anon, read before replying.

>>49309146
The real reason (see >>49309179 ) is that unarmed is something you're armed with (get it?) when your hands are full of guns. Having even one big hit in reserve for when something gets uncomfortably close can be a lifesaver although I often use Raging Flux for that instead (because knockback).

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>>49309146
>>49309177
>>49309179
Just wait until errata.

>>49302740
What I normally do in a game for normal distributions is:

(1/2^level)*.01

95% of the population are NPC classes. 4% of the population is a mix between NPC and PC. 1% is pure PC.

So you need around 100 million individuals to have a single level 20PC.

I use population figures from 1800, there were about 900 million people in the world.

So 8.5 (round down to 8) level 20 PC, a further 34 mix of PCs and NPC, and a further 815 level 20 NPCs. These NPCs are almost all NPCs that aren't commoners.

This means there are only 120 character above level 17, and probably only a fourth of them are 9 level spell casters. So 29 people with 9th level spells.

>>49309522
Given their wealth they should really look into those retraining rules.

>>49309623
Oh yeah, I also completely redid retraining rules because they work WAY too quickly.

>>49309634
That sounds completely obnoxious.

>>49309656
Retraining rules are designed for PCs who only have a few weeks of down time. I think that's silly. It makes completely changing from one class level 1-20 to another only 280 days.

Going from a level 20 fighter to level 20 wizard in less than a year is dumb.

>>49309703
The entire game is dumb.

>>49309739
You're dumb

>>49309739
And? There is a difference between internal and external logic, and thematically appropriate rules. The retraining rules are not internally consistent with other rules I like more, namely minimum ages.

>>49309747
I'M dumb

>>49309747
Yes, yes I am. Though, in a world with magic that can recreate reality being able to learn quickly, given the appropriate wealth, doesn't seem out of the question or dumb at all.

>>49309799
>Yes, yes I am. Though, in a world with magic that can recreate reality being able to learn quickly, given the appropriate wealth, doesn't seem out of the question or dumb at all.
Retraining doesn't cost the appropriate wealth. Also, the whole "the world has MAGIC therefore [thematically retarded thing] should work!" reasoning is dumb. It doesn't follow the game's internal logic.

>>49309821
I can hop into another plane of existence, but I can't speed up my learning process through magic? That sounds way more dumb.

>>49309821
>Paizo
>having no sense of internal consistency
News at 11!

>>49309836
By that same logic you should just be able to pay gold to get to level 20.

>With just this finite amount of money I can change the entire history of my life's work. All of my skills learned through decades of hard practice with my blade are now completely irrelevant because my blade skills have now transfered into spellcasting ability, something that would normally take years upon years of hard study to master, but I did it in less than seven months because I have money fuck you.

It's a retarded rule that no one uses because it's FUCKING RETARDED.

>>49309953
Well, yeah. You can. It's studying and overcoming obstacles. Magic can help you overcome those obstacles quicker. You get XP for that stuff.

http://knowdirectionpodcast.com/2016/09/guidance-alexs-top-10-favorite-non-kitsune-races/

Remember, he doesn't just like kitsune! He likes all the other cute furry races too! But not a furry!

>>49310116
>First non-kitsune option is Catfolk
Lmao

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>>49310116
>the age-regression peso likes halflings
Not surprised, though I am surprised it wasn't some kind of furry half-life though.

Also
>that writing style
>writing ignorantly to the actual mechanics of the races (especially Orc)
>sucking on Crystal's and PF's dick that hard
No wonder they're gonna try and hire him for a book.

Also, he needs to learn to stop misspelling Khajiit, and stop talking about them like he know anything about them other than being cats with silly accents. The /tgesg/ fag in me is crying out for his blood!

>>49310334
Age Regression (when it's not a baby or toddler) is objectively the best fetish

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>>49310397

>>49310397
That's not how you spell lactation or impregnation between a happy and loving couple, anon

>>49310334
You think that's bad, anon? He's got an entire section of that site where he shows off character builds.
http://knowdirectionpodcast.com/category/articles/iconic-design/

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>>49310116
This man is in education
People trust their children to this lardass

Let that sink in for a moment

>>49310397
That's not how you spell oneechan, anon.
>tfw you will never play an ara ara zealot or paladin with a shota psion cohort who uses hidden body on the paladin whenever things get dangerous.

Our GM is threatening to turn all of our characters into lolis
What do

>>49310618
Embrace it.

Why would you refuse?

>>49310618
No they aren't.

>>49310618
Leave the group. Though chances are this is shitposting, so I suggest leaving the thread too.

How do I translate a Razoclaw Longtooth Shifter Barbarian/Warshaper/Weretouched Master with Str 44 (without magic items) into PF? we're converting our previous game.

>>49310450
>The Spooniest Fox You'll Ever Meet
Swear to god I dry heaved.

>>49310650
>>49310655
No, he really is

>>49309417
Looking forward to Path of War 1 getting nerfed down to merely Expanded levels of broken. Hope Zwei Sent is slapped hard.

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So! How'd your weekend go, /pfg/? Do anything fun, in-game or otherwise?

>>49310673
For Race it's be a Skinwalker, followed by a few levels in Barbarian (unsure of archetype), then most of your levels in Beastmorph Alchemist

>my party for an upcoming campaign is U.Rogue, esoteric Magus, Vigilante, and Swashbuckler
>I'm a divination wizard
how fucked am I?

>>49310840
>Hope Zwei Sent is slapped hard.
What did he mean by this?

>>49310874
You won't be, since you'll be able to see the problems coming.
You're just gonna have to work extra hard to help the party from getting boned

>>49309836
If retraining cost a lot more, sure. It doesn't cost that much however. Memory alteration is one of the most limited types of magic.

Are there feats in PF or 3.5 for helping you wield larger weapons without penalty? I wanna be a cunt with a colossal sized greatsword.

>>49310618
What class are you?

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>>49310904
Well fug

It's my first time playing wizard too

>>49310874
U Rogue and Vigilante are fine, however the other two might have it rough

Have you considered asking what their theme is and suggesting alternate classes or builds

>>49310898
Zweihander Sentinel is a mistake of an archetype that trades way too little for all that it gains. It pushes an already strong class up even higher.

Can some one post that hyper optimized fighter? The one with like 50 something strength with self buffs. I need it for reasons.

>>49310932
Mighty Frame from Bloodforge, which gives you the Powerful Build trait. Depending on your race, you can access the feat directly, or you might have to take Mixed Blood otherwise to qualify.

>>49310951
>martials can't be good
When will the meme end?

>>49310116
I mean, I'll be honest. I don't necessarily mind authors inserting their fetishes into their work, I just wish they would be a little subtle with it. This fucker fills his books with his fetishes to the point where he basically whips out his dick and slaps you in the face with it.

What are some cool ways for a Paladin to fall with honor? Basically standing up for what they believe is right, even if their code or deity tells them otherwise? Obviously nothing you'd do to an unwilling player but maybe as an NPC's backstory or as your own PC's personal quest. For badass points. (I'd also consider homebrewing solutions to alleviate the problem of trying to run with a "badass warrior" who doesn't have any of his abilities)

>Free space: telling Iomedae to repent

>>49310862
Both of my weekend games got canceled so I decided to start replay through Planescape: Torment.

>>49310958
http://pastebin.com/KnuKX61H

>>49311009
By not making him fall

>>49310972
Hell yeah. Thanks.

>>49310116
>he even has a fursona avatar
Who does this moron think he's fooling

>>49310874
>>49310874
Unchained Rogue and Esoteric Magus aren't bad, so they are unlikely to be dead weight.

What kind of Vigilante? If the player is decent they should contribute fine.

Swashbuckler is pretty crazy on damage, but also has absolute shit saves and MADness. They will require the most help.

Overall you should be ok. Just hope the Swashbuckler dies and suggest he roll an Inquisitor, Warpriest, or even Oracle.

>>49310976
>Only Spellcasters can break the game
When will this meme end?

>>49311009
By not falling, and instead signing on with a different deity or other oath granting force

>>49311019
>54 str
>40 con
>+40 to all saves
>56 AC
>435 hp
How the fuck do you kill it?

>>49311037
the swashbucker is doing some dagger throwing build. God have mercy on his soul

I think the vigilante is some intimidate build? Not entirely sure yet, we're starting this Thursday. The player generally build effective things, I'm just worried that the GM will throw a ton of fear-immune things at us.

>>49311009
Last Paladin I played ended up falling.

Our GM threw a "ticking bomb" scenario at us where a cult was planning to unleash a poison/disease that was going to wipe out a kingdom. We managed to capture one of the high ranking members but he refused to talk and had powerful magical defenses against any kind of charm or compulsion spells.

We reluctantly decided that our only course of action was to force him to talk - the other players offered to let my character leave the room while they started torturing him. But my character refused.

To turn my back on what happens to this man while he is tortured is no different than torturing him myself. And if that's the case, then I should be willing to shoulder that burden.

My character smacked him around a bit and then poked him with red-hot pieces of metal until he finally talked. GM ruled my character fell, and I agreed.

We put a stop to the cult. My character couldn't atone though because he didn't feel guilty for what happened - while he felt bad he had to torture the guy, he felt there was no other choice available for him and that, in the end, better that he lose his status as a paladin than to stand aside while thousands of people lost their lives.

>>49311063
>implies zweisent breaks the game
>bitches about that instead of casters who can break combats easier, let alone entire campaigns
hahalol.

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>>49311009
>when the entire city must be purged and you're the only one willing to do it

>>49311086
Time Stop, then cast multiple Energy Drains. Sure he'll make the saves but he is still down 2-8 levels each time you cast it (potentially more if you're using metamagic rods).

>>49311186
You can't attack something during a Time Stop.

>>49311186
>Energy Drains
You can't do that during the time stop. You also have to hit his touch AC (which isn't that hard, it's only 27, but +10 BAB and a +7 dex mod only gives you a 50% chance).

Im minorly miffed about something that happened in my current campaign. The game is set in a relatively high fantasy world, and one of the plot events is that we found this weird magic shop that sells "exactly what you need". So of course one by one everybody gets cool little buff items, like in LOTR when Galadriel hands out trinkets.

Our ratfolk gunner got a Rope of Climbing and a Hat of Disguise.

Our Gnoll Slayer got a Quiver of Holding or whatever, the one with three compartments.

Our Cleric got a plot item, some kind of crazy feather associated with an elder bird god.

Our Wizard got a suit of Mithral Chain with no Arcane Spell Fail, which was cool. Probably enchanted too, havent checked it.

Our Oracle got a power up bead thing for his plot weapon that lets him create a new god, buffing his weapon to rolling D20s for damage.

And when it got to my Bloodrager, party doorjam and intimidate machine, I got nothing. Everybody else had to pay between 150 and 1000 GP for their stuff.

The shopkeeper is like "How about 7500 GP for these gloves?" (I mean okay fine they're poison resist or something, I use natural weapons so contact poison is starting to be a bitch.) Just for reference, our whole party doesnt have that much money. Not even combined. If we pawned 2 or 3 characters worth of items we might touch that.

I just think of it as bad GMing I guess. Everyone gets a new toy but you, you get to be shafted. lelelel

>>49311186
>casting energy drain on him
>during time stop
Not how timestop works.

>>49311086
Optimized Throat Slicer Grappler can basically murder the fuck out of it, conditional on ridding it of the ring of Freedom of Movement first. Which, admittedly, isn't a simple task in itself.

>>49311019
Oh yeah. I made this. I made an actually stronger version with less utility. Up the AC by 2 (for all AC types), able to negate 3 attack per round (but only one per full attack against him), and have him be 651 (effective) HP instead. Get rid of the knowledge skills and stealth.

Also he has DR 3/-, it's supposed to be listed on there.

>>49311310
How would you get it off if it is under his gauntlets?

>>49311009
>telling Iomedae to repent
>not telling Iomedae that she's under arrest by a coalition of Good-aligned deities who you've convinced of her corruption

>>49310935
Paladin

>>49311382
As I said, not a simple task.

>>49310871
My system master isn't that good, but I'm not even close to what I could pull off at the level I'm (was). I need at least 10 levels of Alchemist to have decent bonuses, I reach at best 30 Str.

>>49311244

Maybe the store owner's just racist.

>>49311460
But how would one do it, to get the throat slicer to kill him? It isn't easy, but how would one manage it?

>>49311463
mastery*

Has anyone ever played in a roman setting?

>>49309522
>(1/2^level)*.01
Can you explain this to me? I curious to figure out what the other level distributions would look like.

>>49311131
Wow you're a cuck

>>49311684
How am I a cuck for asking you to complain about a bigger problem than a ZS warder?

>>49311684
I am now officially convinced that 'cuck' has lost all meaning the same way '-fag' has.

>>49311749
Welcome to last year.

>>49311413
Actually, I wonder which Gods would release the warrant for arrest?
Torag seems obvious, and Answer would probably have a rule-boner ready, and Erastil would be ready to give a lecture on propriety (and Shelyn would be there too, in order to agree with Erastil that Iomedae needs to find someone nice to get with and keep her chilled out) while Asmodeus would sit in the back and ring his hands.

As for minor deities, Dammerich would probably be rain for an arrest, Olheon would view her actions as an abuse of authority, though I'm not sure of the rest. Of all the others I think the one to try and defend her might be Ragathiel, but he's an edgelord and no one cares what he thinks.

>>49311715
Short answer, since you aren't worth the long answer.

Just because one thing is broken doesn't mean everything else needs to be broken.

bonus answer: I've already taken care or full casters in my campaign.

Assumptions are gr8 m8

>>49311749
Cuck, hipster, sjw.

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Aside from Poisoner's Gloves, what 1pp ways are there for an alchemist to apply his extracts to another PC, without them needing to spend an action, and preferably more than only once per glove? Is there any way to do it more at range too? I need to figure out how to jury rig stuff to let me apply buffs and turn into a dedicated support, because the other PCs can never remember to use the infusions I give them and I can't really do much else with my turns anyway. If I can combo it with admixture vials that'd be swell too. I'm open to 3pp stuff and am going to ask about the Injected Infusions feat from Jolly's playtest, but I have to pitch stuff to my GM and don't want to plan around stuff I might be unable to use.

Does the Admixture Vial seriously keep the the +2 extract level clause? Because for something only usable 1/day, that's kind of lame. Still better than blowing a discovery, but still kinda lame. Just like Poisoner's Gloves being 1/day per glove.

I have to make a new character for a game, level 11. Pfs rules apply. Typically, I make toolbox casters or other support character, so I can optimize without bothering other people's gameplay, but I'm butting up against the same old character roles after doing it for so long?

What's the next best way to optimize a character to hell and back that won't kill everyone else's fun?

>>49311345
http://pastebin.com/GPbFpSMw

Ok, updated version.

Also it knocks ranged attacks out of the air (with cut from the air), dispels buffs on hit.

General attack plat is to Dimension Door at the enemy and the next round full attack. Relies on its HUGE DEFENSE to survive the first few rounds.

Can't really be downed in one round easily, doesn't really fail saves (someone MIGHT bring a DC 50 for a pushed spell perfection, for that he uses he rerolls).

>>49311954
Honestly I should go through the gear and change things around for a few edge case defenses. Shit like force fangs & something anti-death effect.

>>49312004
>>49311954
That's fucking bullshit. Literally how are you supposed to fight it?

>>49312004
Since it doesn't list class, I think I've got it figured it out. Fighter (Eldritch Guardian/Mutation Warrior) VMC Barbarian. Is there anything else?

>>49312155
No that's it. It's pure fighter.

http://pastebin.com/mcN9n7L9

Technically pure fighter.

>>49312187
Cool. I'm gonna see how it does at levels other than 20.

What's an elegant way to do away with the crippling martial feat tax?

I was thinking of making a few campaign traits that just give you the feats you need for your character to actually start defining themselves.

>>49312303
Nuke them from orbit.
http://theworldissquare.com/feat-taxes-in-pathfinder/

>>49312303
Which ones? Several 3pp do just that.

>>49312222
It's dumb at level 3 because rage & mutagen

>>49312338
Tbh, rather than removing point-blank shot, merge it instead with precise shot. -4 penalty for shooting on melee is shit, and PBS otherwise provides the real value of the feat.

>>49311767
She would definitely fight it though. It'd suck to be a Paladin issuing the warrant unless you were pretty deep into Mythic shit.

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>>49312303

Any advice for boosting a character's ability to identify spells short of putting skill points into spellcraft?

>>49312929
>issue arrest warrant
>Iomedae resists arrest
>have to dogpile her with a bunch of Mythic Paladins
>accidentally break her arm
>Church of Iomedae gets buttflustered over "Paladin Brutality" and how Iomedae dindu nuffin
>Sivannah starts up the Iomedean Lives Matter Movement just to duck with people and incite anarchy
>Silver Crusade starts early and targets Godclaw, since they had the nerve to say "All Lawful Gods Matter"
>something something Milani gets involved somehow.

>>49313067
>and in the meantime, Asmodean Conversion and Reformation inquisitors start a massive PR campaign, Tyrant Antipaladins helping around as scary but fair lawkeepers.

>>49311954
>>49312187
Never took a look at variant multiclassing, how are they?

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>>49313135
And don't forget the Order of the Wall finally gets their own Lictor

>>49313202
Varies, some of them are garbage, some are worth it.

Barbarian, Oracle, Magus, Cavalier, and Witch are some of the better ones.

Gunslinger is actual garbage tier.

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>>49312929
>implying it wouldn't happen Palpatine style where a whole group comes to arrest her, complete with "It's treason, then ... AAAAARRUGH"

>>49313217
>Gunslinger is actual garbage tier.
Why am I not surprised?

>>49313235
So who would be the Anikan?

>>49313235
>Iomedae putting up any kind of fight.
Kek. She's canon weaker than Cayden. Any 3 gods who aren't literally whos could take her on.

>>49313264
Ragathiel

>>49312109
>caster supremacist whining

Send out an equal and opposite fighter.

>>49307797
DMs actually do this?

>>49311954
>>49312004
>>49312187

Can a wizard beat this, and if so how?

>>49313327
Some do.

It's called filtering shit we don't want in our game.

I'll confess to doing it, but only in the cases of shit where I've done my fair share of research and know, for a fact, certain options are stupidly broken. Keep it Tier 3, bitches.

I also try to steer them away from trap options that make their characters suck, with suggestions more in the vein of what they actually seem to want while being mechanically viable. If they want Trap Options, I won't stop them, but I strongly advise against it.

>>49313385
>>49313327
I think there is a difference between banning certain things, and telling people to take certain things.

>Keep it Tier 3, bitches.
Is much more dependent on class than feats.

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I personally believe all android bios should be
like this.

>>49313294
>"Is it possible to learn this power?"
>"Not from the Archons."

>Later Dammerich and Engaging are dueling on the Plane of Fire
>"You were the Chosen One! You were supposed to save the mortals, not trumpet them! You were supposed to bring harmony to the planes, not anarchy!"

>>49313385
>I force players to pick what I say
And people still play with you? astounding

>>49313419
>return 0;
Shoddy ass code, I give it a C--

>>49313419
I let out a hearty kek.

>>49313412
Fair point, but I'd argue feats play a big enough role in optimization to warrant considering them with a degree of scrutiny, regardless of class.

>>49313419

So all androids are expressly built with the innate purpose of fucking the Technic League?

>>49313419
>closing brace not lined up
>no line-spacing
>return is NOT EVEN IN THE FUNCTION
What kind of dogshit robot would code that?

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>>49313442
>force

Get some reading comprehension in you, anon.

I straight-up said 'if they want to take Trap Options, they're welcome to do so.' I only bar really overpowered shit. Everything else is fair game.

Nice try.

>>49313466
>this Android is designed to fuck your League

>>49313471
Anon says "DMs actually do this?" as in force feats into their players like OP said
You say "I'll confess to doing it"
Maybe, it's you who has a problem with reading

>>49313486
>the League are basically the police

embed related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5fts7bj-so

>>49313470
Well it's a Warforged, so it's got sapience and a soul, which messes with the coding.

Autism about a robot coding joke, autism about a guy's sentence... never change /pfg/

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>>49313491
Au contraire, my fellow anon.

>>49313385
>I'll confess to doing it, but only in the cases of shit where I've done my fair share of research and know, for a fact, certain options are stupidly broken

>only in cases of shit where I've done my fair share of research and know, for a fact, certain options are stupidly broken

>and know, for a fact, certain options are stupidly broken

>certain options are stupidly broken

>only in the cases of shit where I've done my fair share of research

>I'll confess to doing it, but only in the cases of shit where I've done my fair share of research

I do believe the defense rests, case dismissed.

>>49313527
>autism about the autism meta
Yo-you DOUBLE AUTIST!

>>49313561
>Do you force feats?
>I do in this situations
The situations and cases literally don't matter, you fucking force feats.

There's a difference between "I don't allow this because broken" and "I don't allow this, so you have this you don't want and doesn't even match with the character development you were expecting instead"

Learn to read and reply accordingly

>>49313527
I'm just waiting for more Revenge of the Demons.

>>49313561
DMs should never impose their will on character creation, give options and their opinion? sure, but never force their will no matter the situation.

>>49313616
Holyshit you literally cannot read.

Are you the same autist who brought up muh casters when we discussed Hawkguard earlier?

>>49313616
I don't force feats, I bar feats and then make suggestions that are generally in line with what the player wants out of their character without going overboard.

God, you're a fucking autist.

And really, even if I did force feats, it's only going to be on a handful of very precise occasions.

The context of the situation absolutely matters, whether you want to admit it or not. Let's face it, the game is really easy to break. Why the hell would I just allow it to be done on a whim by some powergaming turd?

>have weedy noble villain to fight players
>notable muscular tone, but nothing crazy
>players are level 7
>don't know that the villain is a Barbarian 10/Vigilante 2 VMC oracle
>raging cannibal/urban barbarian, brute vigilante, ravenous cursed oracle
>they force him into combat by ambushing him at his estate
>first round he grows with brute form/rages and swallows whole the wizard
>climbs over wall using climb speed talent
>goes to hide in alleys because knows the city better than them & is faster
>barfs up the wizard and kills him with full attack
>players get fucking pissed

They even knew he was a cannibal, knew he "flew into famously powerful rages", refused open duels (because brute form), was a leading a double life as a serial killer, and was more than a bit insane.

I honestly thought it was a pretty cool villain.

>>49313654
"I wanna take Dazing Metamagic"

Umm I rather you don't, take something else instead please.

"ok, so I shall take Dazing Metamagic"

Shit! I as DM cannot tell him to take something else because I totally forgot that feat exists and didn't specifically ban it!

>>49313676
That is pretty cool, bravo anon!

>>49313656
Anon, follow the proper conversation chain
OP: DM forced me feats because he didn't like the ones I wanted, I didn't even met the requirements for them and he got mad
Anon1: Do DMs actually do this?
You: I do but only if blablabla

If you don't force feats why do you even reply saying you do? do you have such an ego that you need to be in every conversation?

>>49313700
That's not what we're talking here.
Here is:
"I want dazing metamagic"

"No, you have skill (craft dildos) focus instead because I say so"

We're talking about forcing options into players, not about banning powerful stuff.

>>49313676
Pretty fucking cool actually.

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>>49313722
Not the anon you were arguing with. I'm an outside observer who only posted because you are hilarious.

Are you the Hawkguard autist or not though?

>>49313700
>He forgot the "give options" part

>>49313771
No. I'm not, don't even know what hawkguard is.

>>49313722
But he didn't say I do, retard.

>>49313820
>I'll confess to doing it,

>>49313836
That doesn't mean shit, also he added but...

>>49313806
>>49313836
You may not be Hawkguard autist, but you are pretty autistic by your own right. Just save yourself some embaressment and quit while you're behind.

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>NPC magus misses with his spellstrike
>mfw GM describes his sword as sliding off the PC's armor since fullplate
>next turn declares that the NPC magus lost the spell he had charged "because his sword touched something"
>mfw want to argue that's not how it works, but don't want to derail shit for what was supposed to be a minor encounter
>mfw know if I ever get play a Magus, I'll probably have to get into an argument over it
>mfw I'm an autistic magus-loving faggot, but nobody believed me because "you've never played one!"
>mfw I'm not playing one now because they insisted I take a support role in the party

I usually don't care when rules fuck up in our favor, but this tickled my autism

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>>49313863

>>49313893
Oh god it had offspring

>>49313875
My GM ruled it that since they're touch spells, they'll still go off if they touch, but the weapon's damage won't go through.

That's not wrong, is it?

So I'm doing a short campaign as a sort of background for the BBEG once my players have a set schedule for our main campaign. The campaign revolves around them going into an incredibly large crypt and each session is intended to be dedicated to the clearing of one floor and that floor's boss.

I'm trying to think of what I want to do for the third floor's boss. The idea of his floor is that as the party moves deeper into it, they notice the air getting colder and colder, and if they pay attention, they notice the frozen forms of other members of their organization and other undead creatures.

The boss himself is just your generic big knight that makes shit cold as fuck around him, but I'm trying to decide what kinds of weapons and abilities he has.

I could go full edgy cliche and have him start with a greatsword enchanted to do cold damage that he then breaks apart into two swords that both do cold damage...
Any spells you'd suggest giving him?

>>49313966
They're not touch spells. They're spells with a range of touch that get used as melee attacks, or alternatively, melee attacks with a spell added on.

>>49313966
As far as I'm aware if you miss with your weapon during a spellstrike, you miss entirely, BUT you keep the spell charged for your next attack. IE: You full attack with Shocking Grasp charged, and the first attack that actually hits will proc it, and if you miss every attack, it will stay charged.

At least, that's how I remember it being, and how I think the guides billed it.

>>49313710
>>49313764
I'll be honest, it feels like my players get angry whenever a villain gets the better of them. I am having a really hard time telling what is a cool villain and what isn't.

>>49314009
I see. So Shocking Grasp via sword will only go off if you successfully strike, the same way a +1 Shock sword's electric damage only goes off if you successfully strike?

>>49314034
Yeah, whenever I'd miss with a Shocking Grasp the charge is still there but I swung like a retard (fucking nat 1s)

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Okay everyone, work for the final Kineticists of Porphyra should be starting soon, and I know some of you are familiar with my work on this series, as it is heroic.

There's already a solid amount of work done on it, but I want to know, is there anything that you'd like to see from this last entry in the series?

>>49314047
I've had this issue as well.

>Players mad if one of them dies because their plan was bad and didn't work
>Players mad if they get caught and thrown in prison for breaking the law of a very law-driven city
>Players mad that they got killed by the lich and their characters turned into his servants

And yet they were perfectly happy to murder a party member because he was lawful good.

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>>49313875

>>mfw feels bad man

>>49314096
I'm unsure if this was covered in the Light Kineticists or not, but are there any options for shadow/darkness manipulation?

Also what, if any, other elemental packages did you have in mind? Maybe if you discuss what you have planned it could get our creative juices flowing.

>>49314098
I think it made it worse that he didn't plan on being caught. He had:
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/pull-ring-of-scent

As a tongue ring

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-of-friendly-terrain

For urban plus haste boots for a 70ft movespeed. As an urban barbarian crowds did not impede him. First thing he did was climb over the fence and dive into the street. He ran through/knocked people out of the way and escaped into an alley in the panic. Then he got onto a roof and kept going until he had to vomit up the wizard. He did so into a small alley, passed the save on the spell (superstition w/ human fcb helped a lot) and the full attack took out the wizard.


Only thing he didn't have was silence because he couldn't afford a dark skull of silence.

>>49314098
Yes the old lady tried to stab you with the knife, yes she tried to kill you, and yes you just killed her brother and guards, yes you murdered her lapdog for fun right in front of her, and no she is not a credible threat.

When I work at the old folks home the patients try to punch all the time, but its not ok to punch back. I can't allow your character to keep reeping the benefits of being good any more.

>>49314096
Make Kineticists not absolute shit

New Thread
>>49314300
>>49314300
>>49314300
>>49314300

Sorry about this, have to keep the god damn kitsune fags out.

>>49314197
Okay, normally shadow is a void thing, but the idea of doing shadow illusions as void/light composite talents could be a lot of fun.

Personally, there's going to be a LOT of Viscera in this book since Viscera is both the most well received element and got a ton of support in Horror Adventures, including stuff with flesh warping which we plan on including.

New composites aren't planned (no new elements), maybe some new tristalt blast, we want to have fun with new fusions (Onyx was working on a poison/wood/viscera combo that seemed sick as hell), but some ideas we had were things like

Kineticist/caster threuge prestige class
Viscera + just about everything
Probably more poison stuff, since I keep going lazy on that, possibly expanding it into disease too.

Right now we're playing around with a lot of things, so it's all up in the air. Also plan on giving void and wood their own actual saturations.

>>49314276
I've made the most effort towards this goal than any other 3p writer, I'd say.

Is there any incentive at all to take armor proficiency for animal companions? At first glance a set of masterwork hide shirt barding is only 1 ac lower.

>>49314096
Is there a Hex-based Kineticist yet? I feel like there should be a hex-based kineticist. Maybe you should make one if you haven't already.

Unrelated, but from the Villains playtest, Injected Infusions would work way better as an alchemist discovery instead, but I get why it's written as a feat.

>>49314325
More mutations and possibly a way to take more than one.

>>49314375
There actually was, the hex kineticist in KOP 2.

And it really would work better as a discovery, I just can't really make it one in the confines of the book. There's also a few vigilante talents I would also like to allow alchemist to take.

>>49314393
I can work with these, there's a few planned that we wanted to try to do for 'pure bloods' that are still experimental, the problem is that they deal with language I'm not sure is too subjective.

>>49306435

yes