/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

Are general questions for newbies allowed here? I'm a new Story teller looking for advice on running my first game on Halloween.

>>49262187
I had my Mage players deal with a psuedo-Unfleshed Promethean in their first couple of sessions

It wasn't actually an Unfleshed, since Mage 2e had just come out and Promethean 2e was still a month or two off, though. I just statted him up using the Horror rules, instead.

>>49262286
Funny, my Mage game had players run after an AI taking physical form, so basically an unfleshed

>>49262273
Anything to do with WoD or CofD that isn't already an in-joke is allowed.

>>49262187
Immortals go well with everything.

They are the chicken of the nWoD/CofD.

>>49261862
>they were called that because they planned for Mage to use them for rote spells. It didn't.
I didn't think they'd planned that far in advance, to be honest.

>>49261956
>(I don't get on with Fate)
Why not? I mean, I don't either, but it still has some good elements that Onyx Path has seen fit to pilfer.
Conditions, Aspirations, Storypath's Momentum. All reminds me of elements from Fate. With a bit of Savage Worlds thrown in.

Never played FFG.

>>49262014
Again, I simply don't agree with you. The setting had enough to it that people could create their own thing using what existed as a guideline, regardless of how diverse the different gamelines were. The company not being OGL is not the kind of thing that would ever stop hackers. And Storypath is similar enough to the existing systems that it's worth talking about here.

>>49262187
>matireils
Also, I'm currently working on a fan supplement that gives Hunter style super simplified guidelines for making monsters from other splats in any gameline. Sort of like how the Demon STG has advice for using Demon but having Vampires/Werewolves/Mages/Changelings/Prometheans/Sin-eaters/Mummies.

>>49262342
>Never played FFG.
He's referring to Edge of the Empire, published by Fantasy Flight Gaming(FFG), fyi
It has a weird dice system that uses non-numeral dice in mixed pools of yellow, white, blue, and red, iirc.

>>49262342
>I didn't think they'd planned that far in advance, to be honest.

So, Awakening was being written before World of Darkness came out. All of the Big Three were, in various forms. At the time, the prototype Mage and Werewolf were much more like their cWoD equivalents, to the extent that Requiem 1e is much more like Masquerade than anything that came after. Awakening still had a Technocracy, with the Seers of the Throne as their secret controllers. (And the Exarchs as *their* secret controllers. Early-draft Awakening was conspiracies all the way down)

If you read the fiction inserts in that WoD corebook, some of them are about Mage. A version of Mage that never made it to print, because the game went back to the drawing board a few times.

The main weakness of the version of Awakening 1e that came out was how late in the development process Atlantis was added, and you can tell - it's the uppermost layer of paint on the house.

>Why not? I mean, I don't either, but it still has some good elements that Onyx Path has seen fit to pilfer.
>Conditions, Aspirations, Storypath's Momentum. All reminds me of elements from Fate. With a bit of Savage Worlds thrown in.
>Never played FFG.

I liked FUDGE before they slapped a narrative control system on top of it.

Conditions aren't Aspects. StoryPath's Paths aren't Aspects. (for the unitiated, a Path in StoryPath is what the new system uses instead of Merits and/or Backgrounds. Instead of buying Status, Resources, Allies, etc, you just have "I'm a Police Officer", and can evoke that once per session to do whatever - look up a perp, borrow equipment, get some assistance on a chase, etc.

File: Network Zero's Marriage.jpg (110KB, 622x698px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 622x698px

>>49262506

File: eb0.png (14KB, 534x220px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 534x220px

>>49262329
Cool cool.

I have the basic idea for the game. Players work for the clandestine SCP Foundation, and the players are various agents or researchers that work to capture any SCP discovered. Basically any of the conspiracies and compacts in the main book are working in some way for the foundation (TFV is the security team, Cheiron group becomes the research division, etc.).

Basically I have three questions:

1. How do you go about making creatures for the players to fight against? Are stats really even necessary?

2. What books should I look into for material?

3. Does anybody have suggestions for situations that basically don’t involve “Shoot the monster” scenarios? (Not that I don’t mind combat, I just want a little more role play in this game)

3.5 If you’re a fan, what are some good SCP’s to look into for a first game?

File: Kill me scarecrow dog.png (168KB, 378x322px) Image search: [Google]

168KB, 378x322px

I know roleplaying can draw out a lot of huge faggots from out of the shadows of this world, but why is that WoD has a talent for it?

>>49262568
Bloodlines

We're the closest /tg/ has to normies besides people who got into D&D because of Big Bang Theory

I'm working on those Jungian hunters, but I can't come up with good rules for hypnosis and psychotherapy. Does anyone know if a book has something about that? Maybe Asylum?

How much Willpower can a character spend on a turn?
Horrors can spend based on their Potency, so I assume normal humans can just spend 1 per turn. But I can't actually FIND that any where.
Also, can Supers spend the same as humans?

>>49262342

>The setting had enough to it that people could create their own thing using what existed as a guideline, regardless of how diverse the different gamelines were.

The system's commonalities were a task resolution system, and even these had its variants as new games were developed. While that's still certainly enough to make the roots of a new game, that's not ideal or very encouraging. Add in that White Wolf wanted to present at that time that their games were very special, and it creates an insular home-brewing community that prefers to make new material for the setting the system is attached to, as opposed to anything separate.

>The company not being OGL is not the kind of thing that would ever stop hackers.

It wouldn't stop, but it doesn't encourage them either. A robust hacking culture is created from a designer that encourages that kind of action. Apocalypse World breaks down how moves work so that people could create their own version, Fate breaks down how its action systems work, Fate Accelarated lets you re-name its stats to whatever your setting may want to be, and the OGL is an OGL. What they all have in common is that they present the rules as something separate from the setting, something that can be pulled out, reformulated, and plugged back in. That's the opposite of what White Wolf wanted out of their games. It's not like they were selling you a system like GURPS was, they were selling you a full experience that no other game (at the time) could really replicate. That's why the White Wolf Heartbreaker is so short lived, while the Fantasy Heartbreaker will be with us forever.

>And Storypath is similar enough to the existing systems that it's worth talking about here.

Except it's not. Storypath is for action/adventure games. Storyteller was for horror/urban fantasy games and occasionally modded for high fantasy and epic urban fantasy. Storytelling is meant to do horror/urban fantasy better than Storyteller.

>>49262779
1WP/action

>>49262506
They're not Aspects, but they're clearly the same thought process.

>>49262779
David Hill actually stated in the Changeling Tokyo preview thread that you can spend as much Willpower per turn as you want. The only limit is one point per ACTION.

It actually does say this under Willpower. Page 73.

>>49262825
>Add in that White Wolf wanted to present at that time that their games were very special, and it creates an insular home-brewing community that prefers to make new material for the setting the system is attached to, as opposed to anything separate.
But this doesn't follow. I mean, your whole argument boils down to "oWoD wasn't as cohesive as nWoD", but then you go and say "so people did homebrew, but only in the existing setting".

But again, the question is WHY people only homebrewed WoD fansplats in the WoD setting, instead of using the mechanics to make non-WoD games.

People were clearly capable of making their own mechanical systems using the Storyteller framework. That's not really even a big question; it's a thing that happened, we can point to examples of it.

What is unusual is that it was all in the same core setting, instead of being outside of that (like Chris' Mass: the Effecting).

You keep making circular arguments, and addressing aspects that don't matter ("the corporate culture didn't encourage homebrew"). Homebrew happened. Hacking was a thing. The question isn't why it never happened, it's why it was always tied to the existing setting. And I know that primarily it's because the setting is the big draw, but it's still weird that it was so big in the 90s but no one homebrewed it for OTHER THINGS.

Storypath is clearly of the same lineage. Just as using WoD for Exalted or Trinity follows from the same lineage.

>>49262567

1. Look into the Horrors system from the Chronicles of Darkness Corebook. As a word of warning, you will need a copy of Hunter: The Vigil: Mortal Remains to make the CofD corebook play nice with Hunter. An easy, simple way of making monsters.

If you either don't want to do that, or can't afford the books, use this rule of thumb when making dice pools for antagonists: a set of three 10s has a very high chance of netting you one success, so your pools should be built in multiples of three. Weak aspects have 3, Average aspects have about 5-6, Strong aspects have 9.

2. The CofD corebook for both Horrors and the God Machine Chronicle inside, World of Darkness: Antagonists, and the Night Horrors series are a decent place to start for ideas.

3. I don't know a whole lot about SCP, but:

-A foreign power is attempting to infiltrate and subvert the organization
-An SCP containment project is too close to a source of civilian life for comfort, you must resolve the situation without going hot
-An internal power struggle between two or more directors of the organization has far reaching consequences
-A team-building exercise gets a little too weird when a friendly SCP gets involved

>>49262187
Infrequent but often enough to be keep my players on their toes. Other splats making guest appearances are always turned up to 11, vampires are ancient puppet masters with seemingly endless resources and servants, werewolves are unstoppable juggernauts of fur and fury, mages are avatars of incomprehensible power, etc.

>>49262329
Inferno demons go well with anything too,

>>49263088
I love Inferno more than is healthy, but even I have to admit it's a bit fucked mechaically

>>49262901

>I mean, your whole argument boils down to "oWoD wasn't as cohesive as nWoD", but then you go and say "so people did homebrew, but only in the existing setting".

No, my argument is that because of the way White Wolf presented its games, and how it treated its system, its home-brewing community did not develop a huge interest in creating and supporting a hacking community. Because things in the past effect future things, this continued even when the system was replaced with a system that would be more friendly to hacking.

>The question isn't why it never happened, it's why it was always tied to the existing setting. And I know that primarily it's because the setting is the big draw, but it's still weird that it was so big in the 90s but no one homebrewed it for OTHER THINGS.

If you understood exactly what impact White Wolf and its games had on the gaming community, it wouldn't be that strange. Even though they were presented as "a storytelling game of X", people didn't call the game "Storyteller" as much as they would say, "I'm playing a White Wolf game" or just "I'm playing Vampire". It was so unique, and it was created through its marketing to be so unique, that the fandom it had just wasn't as interested in doing something else with it. That's why homebrew existed, but hacking (for this conversation, a total conversion hack a la Dungeon World or something like Afghanistan d20) wasn't very common.

You keep thinking it's a circular argument because you don't want to get it. It really is that simple. If there was a popular fan hack, or if White Wolf had published some sort of guide to hacking the system, we'd have more of them. But that didn't happen, and therefore here we are. Nothing happens without precedence.

>Storypath is clearly of the same lineage. Just as using WoD for Exalted or Trinity follows from the same lineage.

Except we're not talking about lineage. Lineage doesn't matter. It's mechanically different enough.

>>49262901

I don't know if answers your question, but during the 90's oWoD was one of the most common roleplaying materials around in Brazil, and it was hacked for everything you can think.

But, the biggest proponents were a Street Fighter 2, Matrix, and something else.

And I agree with your point. Storyteller is generic as fuck and could be used for anything, but people got hung up on Vampire and Werewolf.

>>49262956
Great advice, thanks! I'm pretty psyched to get started, first time as DM and the group is excited for a spooky game (though I'm not sure if they are serious enough to stop goofing off).

>>49263116
Nah.

Good book, lotsa whiners.

>>49263191
>No, my argument is that because of the way White Wolf presented its games, and how it treated its system, its home-brewing community did not develop a huge interest in creating and supporting a hacking community. Because things in the past effect future things, this continued even when the system was replaced with a system that would be more friendly to hacking.
white wolf doesn't have a community
onyx path forums has lots of homebrew, across all games even wod

>>49263588
>Envy is better than Mages

ok

File: Holy fuck did he really just say that.gif (124KB, 590x333px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 590x333px

>>49262611
>WoD
>Closest thing we have to normies
>

>>49262286
My first Mage game also had us, the players, trying to kill what was almost certainly a Frankenstein. Killing Prometheans is some kind of Mage rite of passage.

>>49263611

It did in the 90s and the early 2000s. That's the basis behind my argument, that the fan culture of that time encouraged an insular kind of homebrew, and not as much anything beyond that.

I don't use the OPP forums, but if there's a hacking community there, then that's cool! I don't want my point to come of as "and this will be why there'll never be hacks of Storyteller/Storytelling ever ever ever", just that there's a really obvious reason why this sort of thing never caught on.

>>49263406

Oh neat, I didn't know that! I always love hearing about the international scenes for tabletop RPGs.

>>49263191
Hacking is creating homebrews. Mechanically, all of the homebrews were hacks. That's not the question. The question is "why were these all set in the main setting instead of their own thing".

Shit, Dungeon World and D&D don't even have guides to hacking the system.

>>49263406
Oh? I know Street Fighter was an official supplement, but The Matrix?
Maybe this was a Brazil only thing? If so, that's neat.

>>49263588
It's not very mechanically sound.

>>49263867
>I don't use the OPP forums, but if there's a hacking community there, then that's cool!
Actually, it's still mostly making games in the existing setting. Princess at least *tries* to fit the tone, but Genius is so wildly different that mechanical problems aside it would be better served as it's own game, unrelated to the wizards and vampires.

>>49263588
Inferno is shit.
Anyone making a game, don't listen to this guy. Use it sparingly to never. You are better off just using basic spirit rules for any demon.

>>49263925
Lust and Pride are balanced

>>49263909

>The question is "why were these all set in the main setting instead of their own thing".

Because the fan culture, created through various factors of how the original games were presented, was far more interested in the setting as presented than in doing something with just the system. When this is added with a bar of entry that appears high, this lessens the chances of extra-setting homebrew.

>Shit, Dungeon World and D&D don't even have guides to hacking the system.

Again, D&D is a special case in that it is the oldest and most popular game on the market. Until sometime after the internet age started, there was a huge chance that it would be the only game anyone would ever play, unless you had access to some more in-the-know friends or attended a gaming club. This meant that it would be made to do games it could not really do more out of necessity than out of choice.

The actual basics of hacking *World game do not like in the Dungeon World book, since it itself is a hack, but in the last chapter of the Apocalypse World book, "Advanced Fuckery".

When it's easier to separate setting from system and there's a low barrier to entry, you will see extra-setting homebrew/hacks. If there isn't, you won't. It's that simple.

I am pleased to see that things were different in Brazil, though. I could have some theories as to why this would happen in Brazil and not among American WoD fan spaces, but I don't know enough about the Brazillian WoD fandom or general tabletop RPG scene for any that I may come up with to have real weight.

>>49263867

There was and still is a very big roleplaying scene here in Brazil, and a boardgame one is growing fast.

>>49263909

There was LOTS of stuff, mostly unofficial. An old RPG magazine used to adapt and publish different things into Storyteller, we also got Paranoia in it for some reason.

>>49264228
I feel like this is going nowhere to be honest.

File: 1378061358275.jpg (516KB, 1000x707px) Image search: [Google]

516KB, 1000x707px

>>49262187
>Do you include matireils from other game-lines in your game?
I've had Changelings, Werewolves and Vampires star in my Mage game so far.
All as minor characters, situational threats, or situations they've had to rescue others from.

I have a mission planned for an encounter with an arm of the God-Machine, an ingenious inventor being fed inspiration by an Angel who also acts as his protector.
When the players discover this, being the nosy little shits that Mages are bound to be, the G-M will want to relocate its asset and the project.
However that individual is an interest of another Mage, and he doesn't want him running off, causing a 3-way tussle over the genius.
This eventually leads the G-M to decide to burn the project, ordering the Angel to kill its ward. However the Angel has come to love its ingenious companion, and the order causes it to fall.

>>49264552
>genius
TRIGGERED!
I know that isn't what you meant

>>49264228

Well, feel free to elaborate and think up hypothesis, the Brazilian RPG scene was based around homebrew, hacks, and general "piracy" of books and supplements.

In the 90's was really hard to come by the books, and specialized gameshops could only be found on gibber cities, and till the 00's, only in Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, and Belo Horizonte. So in general, if you wanted new material you had to 1) import it 2) wait for translation and publishing 3) develop it yourself.

Given that for the most part RPG players were college undergrads with almost no money, mostly STEM students, in a pre-internet era or mostly without sufficient enough access to it, developing stuff over old stuff was the rule.

I think the only two systems we had clear and easy access to were AD&D and everything White Wolf, except for Changeling, for very contrived and bureaucratic reasons. There was a very big push during the DnD 3.x era, so we got everything that was published, even some translated Dragon Magazines.

Oh, and you won't find any miniature tabletop games here except for Mage Knight and Hero Clix. You get awful lots of MTG here.

And yes, metalheads are the same everywhere in the world.

File: Mixed Blessings + Enscorcelled.png (853KB, 880x1137px) Image search: [Google]

853KB, 880x1137px

Does anyone have any ideas for new Dread Powers or Conditions?

I decided to try and make a fansplat in the vein of Night Horrors. The first section is devoted to going through and giving an overview of how to create cheap-o knock off versions of the main gameline monsters, in the same sort of way that Hunter would do it. I'm going to make new Dread Powers or tweak some of the ones from 1e/Mortal Remains, as well as make new Conditions that work with the powers. And probably some Derangements/Flaws while I'm at it.

As an example, here's a power that could represent Demon Pacts, Changeling Pledges, or even making someone a Ghoul. It's based on the power of the same name from Mortal Remains, but that one is ranked, rolled, and only gives one specific Merit for each version of the power.

Thoughts on what I'm doing? Any advice? I'm going to be using the crossover stuff from the Demon STG as a general guide, but I'm not necessarily going to do the same stuff. My goals also aren't exactly the same, in that I want to intentionally give cheapo versions and alternate options, instead of just saying "here's how you have an Ordo Dracul without using Requiem".

>>49264624

Aw man, thank you so much, this post is awesome!

Based on your rundown, my take on it is that it's very similar to why people do extra-setting and extra-genre homebrew for D&D over here: When something is popular or plentiful enough when it might as well be the lingua franca of your gaming scene,you learn that thing top to bottom and you make do with what you have. Since you had plenty of White Wolf, and the most common choices came down to either that or D&D, that increases the interest in extra-setting oWoD homebrew by default. This overcomes both the seemingly high barrier to entry and the carefully cultivated image of WoD games's systems and settings being inseparable that was present over here. Add in a strong DIY streak in your scene that wouldn't really catch on in the US until the late 90s/early 2000s, and voila! A strong hacking community.

Not an earth-shattering theory, I know.

Does anyone have Mummy: Curse of the Blue Nile or Tales of Dark Eras?

Thanks.

Can someone link me to some of the fan-made Hunter compacts for Changelings please? I had a character idea I wanted to expand on.

Has there been any indication when the final Mage PDF with all the errata or the Mage FAQ will be available?

>>49265417
no, no one at all has it

>>49263001
>mages are avatars of incomprehensible power

So normal mages then? :-3

>>49265809
>no, no one at all has it

I cannot imagine that no one on /wodg/ has either fiction anthology.

Is is because they're really bad or people just aren't interested?

So someone in the last thread asked if we are ever given numbers on the amount of true fae in CtL and the short answer is no. The slightly longer answer is that while we're fairly certain fae don't reproduce it is heavily implied in several places that changelings with high enough wyrd and low enough clarity can/do wander back to arcadia and can become true fae. It is also implied that there are a pretty good number of true fae.

They then asked how common having the same keeper is. This is left to storyteller discretion. It's never said how common a thing it is. However a factor which may be relevant is the number of trods connected to your freehold in setting. See more trods means more changeling from more places find their way to your freehold. Ie tons of trods lots new changelings who could have come from lotsa directions. Few trods, probably less changeling and their probably coming from similar places. This is also up to storyteller discretion. Hope that helps.

>>49265895

I just figure folks are more interested in the games when it comes to CofD.

>>49265895
blue nile is awful
other one is good
check the file share link at the top

>>49266244

You didn't even like Jackal Paw Blues? I liked that one quite a bit.

>>49266244
>blue nile is awful
>other one is good
>check the file share link at the top

I don't see Tales of Dark Eras or Curse of the Blue Nile in either the Pastebin or Mega links.

>>49266027

As someone who STs a lot, the sooner one realizes that numbers don't really matter (as long as you're not getting too over the top with it) the better. Best to not think about that stuff too much.

So werewolf regeneration could help one recover from traumatic brain injury, yea? Like a lobotomy or a survivable gunshot wound or somethin that would render a normal person potentially permanently comatose?

Even if it didn't "grow back" memories or what have you, the brain itself would recover from physical trauma as per every other part of the body, yeah?

>>49269639
As long as they didn't die, probably
Granted, you might have to shift into Gauru to avoid dying, with a shot that good.

>>49269639
yes

>>49269639
Yes, but you'd be like Wolverine with know knowledge of who you are, what your name is, what you are doing. If your lucky you still have a personality and don't have to relearn all of that. I mean your going to be total blank slate probably.

>>49270255
no its magic, you'll get it all back in time

Just saw that Deviant has been announced, any info on when it'll be released?

Always had a love for body horror and weird science.

>>49270983
When its done
That's all we know, right now. I'm not sure if they've even started writing for it, or done anything beyond nail down the basic system structure.

>>49266244

I've read most of the Blue Nile and only dislike one story so far.

>>49265417

You've been asking for like ten threads. You don't have $5?

>>49265310

You are right, thats how everything went down in the end, but I need to say that Storyteller was the lingua franca of high level play, and more "realistic" and grit games.

For everything else, we used 3D&T (Defensores de Toquio terceira edicao, or freely translated to Tokyo Defenders, third edition) a Brazilian made game system, very popular and simple. I know that someone tried to translate that to English here in /tg/, but i can't find it.

>Ars Magica is getting a GUMSHOE port

Neat! Good news for Ascension fans.

File: Night Horrors - Brief Nightmares.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

Alright, r8 my generic vampire template for people who don't want to use Requiem when they're not running Requiem.

I think I should probably give more Storyteller advice on using vampires, particularly for STs who do want Covenants but don't want to care for all the baggage of the Invictus/Ordo/Circle/Lance/Carthians

>>49272339
Making my own criticisms, I'm not sure the specifics on Morality really matter for ST characters.

>>49272359
It does for quite a few powers, most notably Castigations and Benedictions.

>>49266027
There is however this Storyteller's/Player's Guide to Changeling History that claims that there is only one constant number of True Fae, and everything else are just Actors of their different titles.

File: image.jpg (202KB, 739x965px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 739x965px

>>49273695
https://www.mindseyesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Lost-Chronicle-Players-Guide1.pdf
24 True True Fae

>>49273732
Good old nwod, where all answers are wrong. I figured there would be something like this somewhere.

Considering the rules on true fae, and how they are actually complex creatures made up of many working parts (for those unaware, if you enter the realm of a true fae, its home, body, weapon, and titles, are all probably part of the true fae itself.)

Really, the idea of there being x many of them seems to conflict, but then again maybe not if like you said, they are just more working parts of a bigger true fae.

Once we get to that point though, all true fae could just be the working parts of one super true true true fae.

The god machine wins again.

Okay so question about Wisdom loss. Let's go back to Ammon in the alley. He just lead away two punks from the shelter and lead them on a chase till they are in an alley narrow enough they have to fight him one on one. The first one draws his gun but Ammon's sword was already out and is faster and with a flash of steel the enchanted blade cuts off gun arm of the asiliant. His buddy just manages to graze Ammon who turns around and with another flash of steel cuts off this man's arm as well.

--------
So Does Ammon risk wisdom loss for causing a lasting injury to these two men? If so is it at the 5-6 dice level (3 dice base +2 virtue +1 self preservation)?

>>49274014
You only get +1 for your Virtue, and its hard to argue that cutting someone's arm off with a magical sword is acting in self-defense.
In fact, I'd probably give you a -1 to the roll for escalating so much, especially when stunning them with a magical explosion would have been less deadly.

How do different splats work with God-Machine? I mean presence of God-Machine kind of makes most cosmologys feel delegitimate, though Vampires are still Vampires, and True Fae are probably super viruses hiding in Arcadia tormenting the Lost.

>>49274130
G-M is a tool of the Exarchs, they use it to control the world.

Remember - mages are always better

>>49274151
Or the Exarchs are tendrils of the God-Machine.

>>49274165
You wish m8

>>49274130
The god-machine is only as relevant as your ST wants, which is the beauty of it.

At base level, it really only torments mortals and demons.

But you can expand it to interact with most game lines and cosmology.

Are the actions of the G-M a mystery worth researching for mages?
What happens when the G-M and The Principle butt heads and angels fight angels?
May that weird cult of vampires really be working on infrastructure for the G-M?
Maybe that Idigams new form is the work of a G-M plan?

I likenit that way. You can have it have grand schemes, or use it as an excuse for something weird. (Your players bump onto a cryptid. Do they also realize there is a limb of the G-M stocking out nearby that cause the poor creature to mutate? Either way, they are in for an adventure)

>>49274014
Driect, wilful, permanent maiming of another given various other options would be a breach of Understanding Wisdom, probably at about Wisdom 5.
It'd be a higher Wisdom sin if you do so against someone who has access to regeneration, such as Mages, Vampires or Werewolves.

So 3 dice there, adding 1 dice if acting in concert with his Virtue, subtracting 1 if it's in concet with his Vice.

>>49274077
So wait. 2 gang bangers trying to kill me, the nuns, and the women at the shelter, and if I use magic to defend them it's a breaking point. If I use a mundane means (a sword or gun) I take a breaking point while they are pointing a gun at me intent to kill me?

>>49274363
First off, you said you chased them into the alleyway, so that means you're not really in danger. Second, you literally crippled a man.

Yes, causing Quiescence is a Breaking Point, but waving around a magic sword and cutting someone's arm off is more so. There are other ways to solve the problem besides chasing down and delimbing someone.

>>49274451
I lead them away, and lead them on a chase. They were following me. Possibly firing pot shots at me while running. I didn't chase them down, they were trying to chase me down.

>>49274363
Don't think of it like that.
Think of it like mentally traumatising all witnesses with Magic, or brutally maiming two people for the rest of their lives with a sword.

And no, "they were coming at me" doesn't help when you could have disabled them without lasting damage.

>>49274475
Yeah. Sin, and breaking points, ate about what you know to be true, not a universal standard.

So knowing you could have done it without hurting them badly is all it takes. Even if for someone without magic, that might have been all they can do.

Breaking points are a personal guilt.

>>49274507
What I know to be true is that if I just knock these guys out, they'll be back again tomorrow to kill me, the nuns, and the people seeking refuge at the shelter.

If I cut off their gun arms, they'll live. Yeah they just lost their dominate arm, but they'll live, but they won't be attacking anyone anytime soon. They may even choose to change their ways. It seems to be the better option that just knocking them out, and letting them come back in a never ending tide of thugs looking for innocent blood.

>>49274671
That's a pretty ridiculous, simplistic, and psychologically juvenile understanding of human thought.
I bet you read a lot of Batman without questioning the ramifications of crippling someone who's already resorting to criminal activity to obtain financial stability.

>>49274671
>if I just knock these guys out
Then don't just knock them out. Call the Police, or tie them up or something.

Permanently maiming them to teach them a lesson is an even more eggregious breach of Wisdom than cutting off their hands in the haze of combat to stop them from shooting someone.

>>49274130
It really doesn't de legitimize anyone's mythology, except perhaps mortal religions. Beast pretty firmly establishes that most everything was created by the Dark Mother and that the GM (and Principle and various true alien horrors) are the only things exempt from that. The existence of GM has nothing to do with whether or not the Crone, Papa Wolf, or the dragons were real.

>>49274130
>I mean presence of God-Machine kind of makes most cosmologys feel delegitimate
Don't call it a God, and it seems a lot less domineering.

>>49274745
>Beast pretty firmly establishes that most everything was created by the Dark Mother
Thanks man, I needed that laugh

>>49274771
>>49274745
>Beast pretty firmly establishes that most everything was created by the Dark Mother
Not really. I mean, that's what Beasts think, but the book really does seem to reinforce the "this is all Astral bullshit" angle. The Dark Mother doesn't have to be a literal thing (though she could exist within the Astral).
That said, The Dark Mother is clearly The Crone/Luna

>Thanks man, I needed that laugh
We get it, everyone hates Beast.

>>49274870
It's about as firm as anyone else's mythology, and it is at least minimally backed up by the kin mechanics. Having GM, Mom, and Principle as the cosmic trinity is totally fine with me.

>>49274732
The Bat dealt with a lot of Mobsters. Which are admittedly different from Gangsters. Most mobsters are not turning to crime as the only option they are doing it because its the family business. Even if they wanted to open up Sal's Dry Cleaning on 4th and Capital they'd probably end up borrowing money from Uncle Louie the Mobster. Why not the bank? Because the bank charges interest, Uncle Louie doesn't of course Uncle Louie wants you to allow some illegal gambling after dark, but as long as you do that, you can pay him back when ever.

Plus sending them to jail is an option yes. And if it was just one of them vs. me I might consider a less aggressive approach but I have two gang bangers pointing guns at me trying to see who puts the most holes in me.

These guys chased me down, intent on killing me. any court of law would call this justified self defense.

>>49274932
>any court of law would call this justified self defense
Trying to argue your way out of Acts of Hubris on the grounds of legality is not going to get you anywhere.

>>49274910
I hate the cosmic trinity idea, and it doesn't really fit at all.
Also, like I said, Kin mechanics are due to them being Geotia.

>>49274932
I feel like you're making a scenario specifically engineered to justify your own hypothetical.

>>49274974
But my character kills people all the time! He's not bothered by it at all!

>>49274932
Reminder that you aren't Batman. As a mage, you are Superman, which means you have to wear kid gloves when you deal with normal people. Using such overwhelming force because you can and not because you have to is the problem here.

>>49274999
Ah so, because I could always have access to (or modify a spell to have) stunning magic that doesn't deal more than a few bruises the sword option should be considered for the most extreme situations only.

>>49275056
A sword's fine, but use it right.
A painful wound takes all the fight out of most people, so long as they know you're not going to kill them, and as long as you don't aim for joints or organs, you should be able to take them down without endangering their lives or long term health in any significant way.

File: 1450513066322.png (566KB, 2000x1519px) Image search: [Google]

566KB, 2000x1519px

>>49275107
>just stab them in the leg

>>49275056
Pretty much in literally all cases there are better and more reasonable solutions than maiming a muggle.

>>49275056
Yes, basically. If you have nonlethal, non-permanent ways to stop someone, that should be the first step. Even most starter level mages should have some way to escape a normie pursuer without hacking off limbs.

>>49275137
Sure, why not.
A limp isn't a lost leg.
And if you feel bad about that, ask a Life Mage to do you a solid and make sure it heals right.

>>49275175
Also worth noting is that getting into that kind of pants-down situation in the first place shows a lack of Wisdom.

>>49275225
But the Shelter is on Milwaukee's north side, which is one of the worst areas for domestic abuse, and gang violence. Am I supposed to leave the nuns to fend for themselves? Pass out rulers and yard sticks to them? Let the women who come to the shelter be brutalized because the nuns are only able to call the police, who let's face it on Milwaukee's north side not exactly going to respond in a speedy manner because they are already stretched too thin?
Loyalty won't let me sit by while people I work with, and help are in danger. I have to act. But I could start with something a big gentler.

>>49275376
Use Mind to cure everyone of their violent tendencies

>>49275396
I got Prime 3, Forces 2, Matter 1
I don't have mind.

>>49275422
>Prime 3, Forces 2, Matter 1
>no mind
>no time
>no fate
>not even any spirit

What do you have an Intelligence of 1? Your mage is retarded.

>>49275471
>Everyone must stat their characters the same way

>>49275376
>>49275422
Is this an actual in game situation or are you just making up a hypothetical and trying to defend it instead of having people explain to you a more reasonable and realistic way to handle the situation?

>>49275471
He could be a newbie that picked the trap option. It's not really fair to blame him.

>>49275511
>Everyone must stat their characters the same way

No, but in-game he's essentially handicapped by the standards of Mage society

>>49273732
>>49273861
Do note that this is written for a large LARP organization in order to promote ties between characters who have the same Keeper (which is a common play trope for the game, surprisingly) as well as to design a portion of the setting rather than having stuff be willy-nilly all over the place.

Also remember that True Fae work through their Titles, which give them roughly unending forms and avatars anyway.

>>49274130
They work how you want them to work. There's no 'AND THE GOD MACHINE SAYS THIS ABOUT THE STRIX' and stuff. It's a setting piece, and primarily there in the Demon fluff since it's responsible for their storyline, but other lines really don't give two shits about it. The cosmologies are not written in stone and unified 100% like other games.

>>49275546
No, it's not.

>>49275580
>No protection against time assaults
>No Exceptional Luck
He's fodder.

>>49275471
Because taking away people's agency is an abomination and the devil's own path. So never to mind.

Time sounds like messing with a big ball of time wimey and a just sounds like an act of Hubris at any level.

Fate? Not yet plan to expend into that once I get matter up to 3

Spirit? Well probably focus on that mater fate. No reason to spread myself too thin. Better to master one thing at a time and build up.

>>49275511
That is the Arcana spread for my character and that shelter is a fact in the game and one my character works with and protecting the nuns and the women who live there is one of my Aspirations so that is a Hypothetical in that it hasn't come up yet but is very likely to.
>>49275525
Yes I am new to Mage. I put this character up on the Mage forum so others could look over and spot mistakes I made.

File: Miranda - that's al 2.gif (492KB, 500x206px) Image search: [Google]

492KB, 500x206px

>>49275546
>handicapped because he chose, say, Obrimos and built around that for play instead of MAXIMUM BONUSES

>>49275625
Obrimos are basically retarded by Mage standards already, my picking Matter as his third arcana this Mage was already retarded and then intentionally hacked off a limb to boot

>>49275579
>There's no 'AND THE GOD MACHINE SAYS THIS ABOUT THE STRIX' and stuff.
The Demon STG section on Strix is pretty neat, actually. It says that just by existing they tend to fuck up Infrastructure.
>Strix are attracted to Infrastructure and have a terrible influence on it. A lone Strix can nest in or around Infrastructure in a matter of hours; soon after, the area begins to corrupt. Not-quite-biological liquids bubble up from the ground. Buildings crack. Machines break down. In its final stages, this corruption even affects occult matrices connected to the Infrastructure. Twisted abominations appear nearby. City-scale glitches affect demons and angels alike. When it is over, the Infrastructure is rendered inert. More Strix follow afterward. Demons are unsure if the process spawns more owls or if others are attracted to the scent of decaying Infrastructure. Angels kill Strix on sight, but abandon corrupted Infrastructure if they fail to defend it. These behaviors appear to be standard programming for angels, but if that’s the case, demons are unable to recall it.
They also like making deals with Demons and having them fuck with Kindred, because of course they do, the Strix exist to be dicks.

>>49275604
>>49275647
Oh boo fucking hoo. I hate this anti-mage wank, and people pushing the narrative that there's an objective best way to be a wizard.

>>49275615
Your situation is contrived, and you're essentially ignoring anyone who points out how you're trying to justify your actions. Whatever your ST does or doesn't do if this situation comes up, I, personally, would not let you get away with "if I overwhelmingly beat the shit out of them then all my problems will be solved!"

>>49275667
>and people pushing the narrative that there's an objective best way to be a wizard

There completely is though because the arcana are so imbalanced against one another

>>49275667
Yeah, but the Strix thing doesn't have to be that way if the ST doesn't want it to, and unless you really give two shits about it, Vampire doesn't really go into it at all (which is the primary place you'll be looking at Strix). It just gets old hearing people bitch that the cosmologies, as written, don't line up exactly or contradict or whatever.

>>49275604
...Time assaults?
Exceptional Luck I can see how that is handy which is why I have Supernal luck on the sword.

>>49275625
Yes I am an Obrimos and a Arrow.

>>49275647
Excuse me? Why is Matter that bad a choice it would seem to help me in doing things like building shelters for the homeless and improving people's lives and doing good in the world. It seems to be a good choice.

>>49275667
All my problems? No. All the problems infront of me at the time? Yes Two less problems in the long run? Yes. About a few thousand more? Sure. But 2 less. Though I did agree on the moving though the escalation chart a bit slower.

>>49275723
>...Time assaults?

Cut off your dick six months ago after you piss them off today

File: Dear God Why.gif (92KB, 304x405px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 304x405px

>>49275723
>Yes I am an Obrimos and a Arrow.

>>49275723
Just ignore the minmax troll and play what you want. He's looking at building everything for maximum bonuses, so he's probably never ACTUALLY written a character that works from an actual game starting point and just white-room builds.

File: Night Horrors - Brief Nightmares.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>49275676
>The Arcana do different things so that means they're imbalanced!
Try using Fate or Mind when you want to be an Alchemist.

>>49275690
I know.
I'm actually trying to write up a sort of fansplat that gives advice on using other monsters when you're not using their gamelines. Basically doing what Hunter and the CofD corebook do. File related.

>>49275723
Again, I would not accept such behavior without moral and social consequences. I think "I pull out my sword and cut off their arm!" is not the kind of solution that leads to positive outcomes.

>>49275739
You people drastically overestimate the likelihood of that happening. Especially when such a person could just about unmake you.

>>49275749
>Dear God Why
Because people play the game in ways you don't approve of.
Why is a static image a gif? That's a better question.

>>49275723
>Exceptional Luck I can see how that is handy
It's not just handy. You can boost the potency of your spells by insane amounts through its use, and also guarantee that your spells never have even the slightest chance of failing. It's absolutely broken. If it really was working as intended, then it'd be mandatory for any mage in-universe, taught as the first rote for every disciple even before getting into their ruling arcana. It's just that good.

>>49275690
I would expect them to contradict. Hell you can't even get christians to agree on all the details about christianity. Which is why there are so many different beliefs from Pentecostal to Catholic, to Mormon. Why should Supernatural beings agree on anything?

>>49275749
Because it sounded like something I'd want to play. I'll be dealing with a Milwaukee after the collapse of the dominate power (an Iron Master's Werewolf pack) with the Pure, Vampires and other threats moving in the fill the power vacuum as well as other (smaller) werewolf packs that may or may not be fragments of the large pack that once ruled the area.

>>49275781
>The fansplat

That's cool. Are you mostly just updating the concepts in the Night Horrors books to 2E, more or less? 'Cause that's what a friend of mine uses in her 1e game that she runs (she runs a mortals game, kind of Scooby Doo/Mystery Skulls/X-Files) and, while I don't play, I hear good things about it. And she uses the Night Horrors books to 1) have easy rules to use, and 2) throw off players who know too much about other splats OOG.

>>49275784
Well, it is repeated a few times in 1e that others Paths are almost universally jealous of the sheer dumb luck which the Acanthus are endowed with from their Magic.

has anyone else been having trouble with Roll20 lately? I've been getting VERY unusual role-results, these last few sessions we've had at least three recurring instances of "more successes than dice rolled" and very close to zero failures, in one combat(with decently high dicepools in the area of 5-10) we saw eight+ exceptional successes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZY5sEr31M
How WoD is Blade? And is there such a thing as a self hating vampire that kills other vampires?

>>49275924
Night Horrors was a series of books for each gameline that offered strange monsters specific to that gameline. Vampire got Wicked Dead, which had blood parasites, Jiangshi, fat vampires who feed on jealousy and give Striking Looks when they drain vitae (and they ghoul people by cutting off their sweet tasting grey fat), the Dhampir, and Strix. There was also Immortal Sinners, which was a simple Antagonist book.
Changeling got Grim Fears, which I'm not as familiar with, but it had Cambions (children born from dreams/succubi who have an Unseen Sense for everything and become walking corpses in the presence of the supernatural), goblins, and True Fae like the Conquerer Wurm (a dragon with a shard of iron spear inching ever closer to his heart).

You might be thinking of Hunter, which had rules for making generic monsters. It was basically the same idea I'm doing, but each one barely got a page and one sample antagonist. Hunter also was the first book to introduce Dread Powers, which are generic supernatural effects to use for statting monsters. The CofD corebook basically took ideas from Hunter, and it's great for it. Worth noting is that Night Stalkers, Witchfinders, Spirit Slayers, and Mortal Remains expanded on the generic stuff to give better advice for using vampires et al in Hunter (whether the typical Requiem, et al kind or things like "bloodjackers" and Aswangs).
What I'm doing is actually inspired most by the Demon STG crossover sections, though. It gives a rundown of a simplified template (Mages use a simplified Reach/Spell Factor system and roll Wisdom-Reach to see if they cause Paradox; Promethean Bestowments are handled by Demonic Form Powers) and some suggestions on how they work.

I want to essentially create a handy fan resource for people like your friend, who might want to use Vampires/Werewolves/etcetera without actually using Requiem/Forsaken/etcetera.

I do plan on making advice on creating just weird spooky shit as well, though.

>>49276215
He's very WoD, less so CofD.
Also yes, there will certainly be self-hating Vampires.
They'd assumedly get killed off by other Vampires, or their "allies" quite quickly.
Unless they're good enough to survive of course.

There is nothing so loathsome as a traitor.

>>49276220
Sorry, yeah, I'm thinking of the hunter books for Witchfinders, Night Stalkers, etc. She uses those to great effect without having to worry about using Requiem/etc. since she's using 1e.

I'm pretty new to WoD. I have a basic grasp of the general setting, know about Vampire and Changeling, a bit about Werewolf, but I just started reading the Mage material. Any advice for a newbie Mage player? Paradox seems extremely easy to cause with just about any use of magic. Either that, or I'm just uncreative. What I really wanna pull off is a character that specializes in creating magical weapons to fight other supernaturals (vampires, werewolves, etc), like a blacksmith/enchanter. What's the best way of going about doing that?

>>49277543
Make a Moros, focus your starting points on Matter and Prime(Death is useful, too, for dealing with Vampires and Ghosts, though)
Join the Forge Masters asap
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Forge_Masters

>>49277543
OWoD or NWoD, and if NWoD, 1e or 2e?

>>49271237

Which one? I have a feeling that the one story that treats the Guilds like a traditional CofD social splat wouldn't be the popular.

>>49277683
NWoD, no idea if 1e or 2e.

>>49277773
Does magic involve Reach? If so, 2e. If not, 1e.

>>49277675
Thanks!

>>49277790
I remember the copy I have mentioning Reach.

>>49277812
You have 2e then. I'd go with what the guy above said, focusing on Matter. I'm not sure about Paradox in it, as I haven't had a need to get Mage 2e myself as I won't be running or playing it.

>>49277812
Take Rotes for the spells you plan on using the most Reach with.(Particularly those from Prime or any other non-Moros Arcanum, since you'll have to pay a mana to cast them at all until you join the Forge Masters.)
Make your Praxis a spell where getting an Exceptional Success would help a lot(eg, spells that cost mana, or have a Withstand rating they always have to contend with.)

Remember that Praxis and Rote Mudras are mutually exclusive; you can have a spell as both, but you can only cast it as one at a time.

>>49271237
Yes, but Atamajakki you're a loudly, and at times obnoxiously, self-awoved whore for all things MtC, so you liking it comes as a surprise to absolutely no one who frequents the WoD Generals.

>>49278194

Just note than praxis spells outside your Ruling Arcana do not cost mana to cast, just like rotes.

Has there been any talk of a Mummy 2e?

I simply have no desire to get into the game now that I've been accustomed to CofD, Vampire, Werewolf and Mage with the 2e rules set.

>>49278399
Nope. Eta, 2019+

>>49278436
>Nope. Eta, 2019+

Is that a real world estimate of 2019, or an Onyx Path estimate of 2019, which means sometime in 2036?

>>49278510
I would tell you, but I don't want to break your heart.

>>49278399
Just convert it. Slap the 2e combat and xp changes on Mummy and run it as is. The other games are benefiting from changes to their powers, but Mummy is already strong and pretty functional, so it's not like they need that.

Any idea when Scion's kickstarter will drop?

>>49274870
>We get it, everyone hates Beast.

Every day and thread until you stop trying to defend it Aspel.

>>49278510
Hey! No need to tarnish the Chronicles writing teams with Holden and Morke's brush.

I'm looking to run a Prommie game. 4 players once a week or so. Discord if interested! https://discord.gg/ASXeN

>>49279284
>Posting that discord here
Why are you trying to start shit?
I'm not running a Promethean game for random anons. Stop trying to get people to brigade for you. Leave your weird stalkery obsessions out of the thread.

>>49279316
What does that even mean?
What does another anon's discord have to do with your game?

>>49279395
I think that Anon 1 is probably posting about Anon 2's Discord game here.

>>49279437
But Anon 1 clearly says 'I'm looking to run a game'.

Which means Anon 1 is the one starting a game.

>>49279471

Because someone couldn't possibly post someone else's discord link.

>>49279493
Yeah, but what does that have to do with the game anon 2 is running, and anon 1 is openly not recruiting for?

>>49279395
>>49279471
>>49279550
Anon, do you think that the channel #virtuesignalling on the SJW Cultural Marxist Conspiracy Haven server is for a Promethean game?
I posted my Discord for talking politics outside of a larger channel, since people tend to leave the channel when those politics come up.

Someone who's way too obsessed with me then posted it here saying it was for a Promethean game. I already have players for a Promethean game.

>>49279589
Anon, do you think I actually looked at the discord server to see what the name and topic of it was?

Why not say what you meant, 'stop posting my off topic discord, you obsessed idiot.'

Why make it sound like someone was recruiting for your game, when that isn't what you thought was happening? The confusion is 100% your fault.

>>49279630
Anon, other people understood what was going on.

>>49279664
There's no one else here anon.

>>49279681
These posts >>49279437 >>49279493

>>49270255
Okay but that could be fun as a plot point. IDK if i'd want to roleplay an amnesiac but if a werewolf wanders into the territory of the PC pack with no memory of what's going on besides that he's a very upset dog-person I think that'd be cool.

>>49278932
"Soon"

[spoilers];)[/spoilers]

File: 224720764a75317be6c9fddaba92b7f1e97169b4c033562643f25d9468cd33f6.jpg (783KB, 742x1320px) Image search: [Google]

783KB, 742x1320px

>>49279284
Why.
>>49279589
That ain't me. Stop assuming that people who either disagree with you or go out of their way to troll you are.

>>49280603
I didn't say it was you. You're far from the only person with a weird obsession. Now go away.

File: 5febeb8a901d287a009778d8da76dbf1998349b577d419f91af0b282961366a6.jpg (76KB, 700x970px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 700x970px

>>49280660
You've accused someone of being me before in regards to Promethean - which by the way was hilarious. I just wanted to assure you so you don't keep accusing me of trying to troll you.

>>49280733
No I haven't. Why are you even here "defending" yourself? The fact that you're even posting in this thread shows that you still have a weird obsession with me, and I should probably go do something else instead of acknowledging you and indulging it.

>>49280603
>>49280660
>>49280733
>>49280785
How about you two take it to your precious Discord instead of shitposting and airing your dirty laundry where other people can easily jump in and pretend to be either one of you

TL;DR
What can Alchemists do with all the Pyros they generate and steal from Prometheans?

>>49280831
They can learn Prommie powers

>>49280785
http://archive.is/NHhYZ
yyyyes you have. You can thank mutual contacts for pointing this out to me on both occasions.
>>49280827
Love to, prob won't happen.

File: 1413580794102.jpg (64KB, 434x325px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 434x325px

Fucking hell, today's session was a nightmare. Namefagging only because someone here might remember the long-term oVampire game I mentioned here a few times. I need to vent.


At the beginning of this year, one of the player's husband joins us. We give him a Brujah character that the party would know. Now, to be fair, the character was played by a previous That Guy who left the group, so the group was by default going to be a bit cautious about the pc.

But no, this guy is just not a party player. Which is really shitty because he is actually a good player, he quickly comes up with good ideas, he is very active and always finds stuff to do, so at first I was glad he joined; the group can sometimes be a bit passive, so this was healthy.

But then things went downhill really quickly. He chose a nature of Autocrat and decided to play up the nature at the expense of everyone in the group. Meaning that he would force his view and his way of doing things on others all the time. He was and still is hell-bent on the idea that rping a character > working in a party

He also loves to show he's the boss by picking fights with other pcs and then being legit surprised when the players get pissed and attack him in retaliation. Then a half an hour argument follows with him and the person he got into an argument with, while the rest chime in at times or not do anything. Even his wife seemed irritated at him.

He also completely disregards the group and immediately leaves himself, alone, to do the stuff he wants to do. Sure, it might relate to the plot in some way, but he just doesn't care about informing anyone in the group about what's going on. Then he gets upset when nobody bothers to tell him what's going on, if he himself just left IC. And because the party doesn't want to always call him and explain where they are and what they're doing, like he's a vry important figure to be updated on their progress, everyone gets irritated

cont'd

>>49280831
>What can Alchemists do with all the Pyros they generate and steal from Prometheans?

Buy Promethean merits, body-related human merits without meeting the prerequisites, Pandoran dread powers, and of course, create potions mimicing Promethean powers.

Once they think themselves powerful and important, they can then be bitchslapped by Awakened mages, the REAL alchemists of the setting.

File: the_room.gif (614KB, 200x136px) Image search: [Google]

614KB, 200x136px

>>49281661
Today was the last straw.

We started our game after a month-long downtime. The first thing he does is split from the party to go to the next plot-relevant place by himself. As the party approaches the city, he doesn't rejoin them, he goes to the bar and starts a brawl because he wants to control the criminal underworld. So I have to split attention between him fighting and the rest of the group investigating a house.

As soon as he heard OOC what is going on with the main group, he demands someone call him IC so that he can get there. He does, sees that they broke into the house, sees their footprints on the snow. The rest of the party had to climb over a fence, he decides fuck it, attached some rope to the fence and just yanks it out using his car.

He then barges in, checks out the house, picks up everything other pcs have not taken but found (blood packs) then starts arguing about a manuscript the party has (plot-relevant item). He missed the first half of the post-downtime session and he had it with him. So to advance the plot I allowed the rest of the party to take it from his car.

The rest of the party, sensing that he is about to go into an argument, just gives him the manuscript. He then goes to inspect another room and has an argument with a Malkavian about how nobody called him in time to arrive and how they ignore him. He keeps touching him all the time and describes it in a somewhat threatening and patronising way. Like an adult grabbing their kid by the shoulder. Malkavian player dislikes that and told him a few times to stop touching her, which he ignores.

cont'd

File: 1430531531880.png (132KB, 403x392px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 403x392px

>>49281832
Malkavian player was getting the most tired of his shit and has been very clear about her not liking the way he disturbs the party dynamic. So she decides to roll for frenzy, attacks but misses and gets it under control. Brujah thinks he has made his point, turns around and leaves, at which point he is confronted by a Gangrel, who is on Malkavian's side.

Gangrel pushes him down the stairs and then leaves as well

Apparently being treated the same way he treats others pissed him off, so he took everything that wasn't nailed down and stormed off, leaving the rest of the party to continue with the investigation.

I am now trying to juggle 3 groups, because the party also split (though that was by mutual agreement, as they wanted to have enough time to get shit done).

As I speak to other players, every other minute Brujah player interrupts me with questions that are related to his character.

And then another argument erupts, don't remember what it was about, too much shit happened. Oh yeah, Brujah decided to go to the next investigation trail on his own by car. When the rest of the party wanted to carefully approach the place, with the clever use of Animalism and Tremere rituals.

At this point (almost) everyone is arguing with him about how he does not care for the party. He says that IC the pcs don't seem to care for her, which is why he is acting the way he does. I tell people that we're gonna have a 20 min break, as a last chance for the Brujah to redeem himself and talk this out with others.

No, I come back, he is still arguing, remembering every single time he felt he was "wronged" by other players. He keeps saying how he needs to be a leader to be in tune with his nature and that the party should recognise him as a leader, but because everyone is on a Malk player's side (her pc has a Nature of a Rebel), he is immediately out of their circle and they snub him.

cont'd, last part

File: Agony_03.jpg (199KB, 1200x800px) Image search: [Google]

199KB, 1200x800px

Anybody playing Demon the Fallen? I'm looking to play a game that takes place in hell.

File: 1433924479723.gif (580KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

580KB, 480x360px

>>49281969
Party makes reasonable arguments, that he needs to not only think IC 100%, and that party harmony needs to be above simple "staying in character even if that makes you an asshole to everyone else" but he keeps arguing.

At this point I lose my patience and tell him that he clashes too much with the group and that he cannot play with us anymore. I end the skype call and sign out of skype. If he wants to keep arguing, his choice. I also suggested that if he wants to continue on his own, I am happy to have one on one sessions once a month. Because it's not that he was only a bad player. His personality just did not mesh with everyone else AT ALL, so it's unfortunate that things didn't work out.

I just hope his wife can still play with us, she's been in this group for 5 years now and works great with everyone.

If I ever come back and say that I accepted him back because I felt bad for excluding him, call me a pussy. Right now I feel like this is the best decision I have made. Ever since he joined, at least once a month there would be a half an hour long argument with him, which just ruined the fun of the party. It got to the point that last week one of the players said that she was considering leaving the game as he wasn't making it fun anymore.

God I'm drained. Just quickly went into Skype, I can see that the group call is still going on, but I have no idea if anyone is actually in it. And I saw that he was trying to call me as well.

>>49282030
Enjoy your poop trees

>>49282030
Agony looks interesting, even if it is nothing but an Amnesia clone

Played one game of it, but you don't play in Hell. You actually want to escape it ASAP. it's a prison that held you for thousands of years and it's nothing but a void of nothing. Demons went completely mad there, filled with anger and despair. So no, no demon wants to go back to the Abyss

>>49282107
>Not wanting to play hell riddick

>>49281811
>Buy Promethean merits, body-related human merits without meeting the prerequisites, Pandoran dread powers, and of course, create potions mimicing Promethean powers.
I think most of these require Vitriol. Potions that mimic Transmutations use Pyros, as you said.
>Once they think themselves powerful and important, they can then be bitchslapped by Awakened mages, the REAL alchemists of the setting.
And them Ammut comes and eats everyone.

So, what kind of different literacy genres do canon gamelines got cowered?
Vampires got Gothic, Changelings got Grimm Fairytales, Hunters/Mortals got general horror and slasher tales... What else?

>>49282107
Speaking of which: Would it be possible to have a short campaign about Changelings escaping Arcadia and their Duresses?

>>49282592
Depends if you mean oWoD or CoD

>>49282725
I intended to talk about CofD, but insight on oWoD would be cool too I guess?

favorite True Fae you've encountered?

>>49282592
Werewolf has supernatural romance.

>>49282941
Isn't that just a fancy way if saying Furry-fucking?

So aberannt is getting rid of mega attributes right? the stuff that novas can do will just be represented with their own standalone powers, like the 'hit super hard' power or 'lift heavy things' power instead of just all falling under mega attributes right?

>>49283061
Less fancy really.

Mage Question;

If you've lost your soul, and your not in your body via Psychic Projection (Mind ••••) then your body dies, can you build a new body via life mastery(and a supernal entity to be on the safe side) and put all your shit back together to 'fix' yourself. Or would you just turn into some kind of horror?

I'm making a NPC.

>>49282898
I disliked The Ice Queen so much we annihilated her with Cold Iron bullets and a fucking Lion.

But Tempestus, the old man of the storm, was less trite, and genuinely pretty fucking scary when we faced him in the Hedge.

>>49283061
It has furry fucking, too, but I mean in the sense of all those ebooks with shirtless men set in front of a full moon and they're always like part four of a sixteen part series about harems of werewolves.

>>49283079

Dude, we literally know almost nothing about how Aberrant/Trinity/Scion/etc. are going to do things.

Maybe Mega Attributes will exist and interact with the tier system. Maybe they'll just be binary. Maybe they'll be Paths.

>>49283144
If your body dies while you're projecting, you die.
It's just a projection, you haven't left your body.

To become a completely ephemeral entity would require both Life and Mind at 4.

>>49283145
>ice queen
real imaginative ST you got there

>>49283210
kk thanks.

>>49282617
They'd be more Fae-Touched than Changeling, until they left Arcadia proper, technically. But yes.

Also, odds are they wouldn't all become Changelings after they got out, unless they made a point of escaping in ways that fit the Seemings(assuming 2e).

>>49283347
Yeah, he's an idiot.
I left his game out of distaste.

>>49282898
Boelzyn, King of Crawling Filth, the seven-headed ratman Actor of the True Fae 'The Child,' who was the keeper of my tin man/nutcracker Summer Court Metalflesh.

>>49262187
>played a Hunter twoshot last year
>fucking loved it
>guy I know announced a Hunter campaign coming up
>have already made 12 characters in advance
>who all have different backstories and everything
At least he said the game could be lethal.
Did I go over the top?
Is this a sign that I should start to try to DM?

>>49284903
No, Yes.

>>49274014

I would say no, you dont need to roll wisdom there. You dont use magic and causing another person a breaking point (unless quiessence) is not wisdom breaking so my ruling would be no.

You are using a magic sword though and unless is specially flashy, is not the same as using the art for harming another living being.

So there are people around here who genuinely believe that maiming another person leaves you unfazed because hey it's a dog eat dog world.
You're scary, folks.
Real scary.
"I'd feel more comfortable if there was a way to know if you're within a mile of my nieces" scary.

>>49285549
That isn't what newb anon is saying though. He seemed to be asking if it wasn't as bad because it was in self defense.

>>49285597
Self-defense does alleviate the shock.
But that's "running after the bastards and dismembering one of the dudes"... Which is a scary definition of self-defense.

>>49285614
(Then again I'm French, the amount of shit that flies under second amendment ruling makes zero sense to us baguette-eating faggots anyway, so I guess self-defense may get a culturally broader meaning as well, if newb anon is american)

If a prommie or demiurge kept trying the same formula (say out of stubborn obsession), does it seem reasonable that his failure would keep making similar Pandorans?

Trying to formulate a common problem for a Promethean game.

>>49285779
Similar for sure, but not identical.
Perhaps a few uniform flaws, or a similar theme.

>>49285473
You do know that Wisdom Breaks aren't only for magic, right?

>>49285549
>>49285614
I feel like you're overreacting a bit. He's not a crazy murderer in real life, he's just a D&D kiddy gamer.
Self-defense wouldn't alleviate the shock, but it might mitigate it.

>>49285648
Swords are ironically not covered under second amendment, and illegal to carry in most jurisdictions :V

>>49285779
Possibly, yeah.

>>49285779
Could be, could be not.
If you're the Storyteller it's your call.
But yeah it could definitely be the case.

That could also lead to azothic resonance rippling real hard because of the repeated offense.
A sublimatus could emerge and decide it's cool or decide it's horrific or just fuck around.
A qashmal could slap a bitch.
Anyway, that does seem to be a pretty solid base for a Promethean game, yep.

>>49285812
>Swords are ironically not covered under second amendment, and illegal to carry in most jurisdictions :V
Nervously giggling to this.
In France, you're not supposed to carry a knife with a blade larger than your hand. So yeah no swords either.

>>49271740

I'm a little sad nobody noticed this.

>>49285819
>>49285803
Nonuniform but similar flaws could actually work with what I have in mind. Just gotta look over the pandoran powers and see what I would go with.

>>49285614
>But that's "running after the bastards and dismembering one of the dudes"... Which is a scary definition of self-defense.

In the anon's example, the two dudes with the guns were chasing his character. He was not chasing them. I believe those same thugs were also violently harassing nuns and other innocents immediately before the chase.

The gangbangers were maimed while trying to kill the Anon's character who was doing nothing illegal or questionable. It's classic self-defense.

Some here are just dismayed that Anon's character didn't treat the thugs more gently. I and many others, however, have little sympathy for attempted murderers. Considering the litany of violent criminal conduct described in Anon's hypothetical, the thugs are lucky they were only maimed, and not killed, which would have been perfectly justified as a legal matter. The character had a sword, and he used it to defend himself from killers. Pro Tip: If you're a thug, think twice before attacking a wizard with a sword (or IRL, a person possessing a legal firearm).

The only people deserving of any real sympathy in the hypothetical were the defenseless nuns. As for the thugs, they learned the hard lesson of what happens when you try to kill people who are able to fight back (one of the underlying foundations of "scary" American jurisprudence that applies regardless of whether or not a firearm is involved in an altercation).

>>49285812
>Swords are ironically not covered under second amendment, and illegal to carry in most jurisdictions

Where did you get your law degree?

Swords are definitely covered under "arms." However, contrary to hyperbolic media reporting, the 2A permits certain regulations under which many, but not all swords, fall under in certain jurisdictions.

Interestingly, due to recent 2A jurisprudence, many knife laws across the country, such as bans of switchblade knives, are now being challenged. Some have already been overturned and some cities and towns simply changed the laws rather than face difficult to win lawsuits.

>>49286252
Yes, it's classic legal self defence.
Except that doesn't mean dick with regards to Acts of Hubris.
Furthermore, your lack of sympathy to those who have just been brutally maimed would merely be indicative of your own lower Wisdom rating.

>>49285812
>You do know that Wisdom Breaks aren't only for magic, right?

Depends on the edition. In 1st edition unless the PC kills them is only a wisdom 8 sin under "Injury to another"

On 2ed is more is more debatable. Wisdom 3 to 7 says premeditate and deliberate violence that leaves its victim with long term injury.

However the way the OP describe the situation it seems it was neither of those things (It was deliberated by player) as he ran after the gang members and they pull guns on him.

On the other hand as is guidelines, personally, i think except in extreme cases wisdom is only should be only for magic. As mage talks a lot about the use of the "art" and the fact that you can bypass wisdom with anuring makes me consider that wisdom is more for magic.

Even the most morally police order, the GoTV, would approve of this. The mage in question permanently remove threats with sublte magic.

>>49285549
>So there are people around here who genuinely believe that maiming another person leaves you unfazed because hey it's a dog eat dog world.

They arent people, they are gang members. Gang members arent people batman taught me that.

Though im saying that it leaves mages bullshit morality scale unfazed, not normal morality that shit is fuck up.

>>49286252
Ammon worded his example poorly and it made it sound like he was chasing the gangbangers.

No one is talking about legality, which doesn't factor into things. In fact, as one anon pointed out, the law has nothing to do with it, it's about guilt and morality.

Beyond that, Ammon is a fucking wizard. This is not a matter of his legal rights, but a matter of his forethought and planning. It's a matter of his Wisdom. He described his character taking a rash action. An action that is more random and destructive than his first plan. If he had broken into the thug's houses and given them a lethal overdose of heroine, then removed all traces that he had been there, that would be LESS of a Wisdom break because, again, this is not about what a court of law would determine, it is about the consequences and the weight of the action on his Supernal Soul.

No one is saying that self-defense is bad. We're saying that the equivalent of beating up a toddler is not morally justifiable as self-defense when a fightwizard cuts someone's arm off instead of trying to subdue them.

>>49286424
Wisdom doesn't apply solely to Magic, even in 2e.

>>49286351
http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/02/is-it-legal-to-carry-a-sword-in-public.html
I don't think the media has ever reported on sword regulations.
Switchblades are also heavily restricted in many areas.

>>49286424
But his action was both premediatated and deliberate.
He purposefully went for their arms, and then attempted to justify it by saying such a maiming would dissuade them from a life of crime.

Also no, Mages should have to worry about Wisdom breaches for mundane actions just as much as their Magical abuses. Bar their perception of Supernal truth and the eternal buzzing of their Mage Sight, they're mentally just like any other mortal.

>>49286639
Outside of the fact they are a mage, they are just like everyone else.

>>49286726
Yes, and being a Mage is primarily a bestowment of great power, and an enhancement of perceptions.

I don't see how either of those, applied to a mortal mind, will grant any additional mental stability such to be able to ignore personal responsibility for such horrible actions such as violently assaulting or maiming another.

>>49286639
His actions aren't premeditated. They're reckless. He added the bit about cutting off the guy's arm specifically because he wanted to know if that would be a Breaking Point (causing long term harm) and if he'd get a bonus for following his Virtue and in self-defense.
Maybe the one, but not the other. And due to the extreme nature of the act, I'd say he'd get at least have his Virtue canceled out as well.

>>49286780
You could make a similar excuse for half the creeps.

>>49286807
Mage is also all about awareness and responsibility. I mean, their Morality is literally Wisdom.

>>49286796

In the Anon's hypothetical, wasn't his characters plan to lure the thugs away from the nuns and then deal them away from sleeper eyes with little risk to himself or others? If so, the maiming appears incidental to the clear premeditated and executed plan to harshly deal with the gangbangers.

I really find all the CofD morality and analog systems unnecessary, annoying and often confusing. They lead to arguments and add little to game play.

>>49287047
>the maiming appears incidental to the clear premeditated and executed plan
You're not really helping the case there... "things didn't go according to plan" makes something worse, not better. And he'd already led them away in his first example, where he uses a magic bomb instead of his sword.

>I really find all the CofD morality and analog systems unnecessary, annoying and often confusing. They lead to arguments and add little to game play.
They're almost always completely reasonable. Literally the only one with any real wiggle room so far has been Integrity. Everything else even comes with lists of when and why someone might fall. Questions of morality and moral consequence are also integral themes to the majority of the games, save maybe Demon. Even Beast at least vaguely gestures in that direction.
Not to mention that each of the Morality systems--aside from Integrity--tends to be heavily tied into the mechanics of the gameline in some way.

>>49287280
>things didn't go according to plan"

But things did go according to plan. As I understand it, the plan was to create a distraction to save the nuns and then deal privately and harshly with the thugs. Mission accomplished.

Anons? Long story short, I'm running a ChroD Mortals/Tier 1 Hunters game with a Cosmic Horror style "Humanity is Insignificant" slant, ala Call of Cthulhu. Can I get any suggestions for displays of supernatural might that I could use to hopefully provide some of the "teeth" behind the whole "the supernatural is scary" concept?

So far, the Tier 3 Utterances from Mummy stand out as one possible source. Alongside the whole "you know how you set off a nuke in its bedroom? It's still alive, it's pissed, and now it's radioactive" level of unkillability thing.

Werewolves using the Catastrophe facet for Gift of Elements also sticks out. Especially since I had an anon elsewhere point out that, with the right fetish, a werewolf could use that power to summon a literal Sharknado, or a plague of Lavantulas.

Anyone got any other suggestions?

>>49286780
>Yes, and being a Mage is primarily a bestowment of great power, and an enhancement of perceptions.
>I don't see how either of those, applied to a mortal mind, will grant any additional mental stability such to be able to ignore personal responsibility for such horrible actions such as violently assaulting or maiming another.

Because mage have a different morality than humans?

Same with werewolves, they have harmony instead of morality so they can kill a person and as long as it doesnt violate harmony they are kosher.

Mage are the same, they have Wisdom not morality. You can be a very wise bastard and you are ok.

>>49287047
>I really find all the CofD morality and analog systems unnecessary, annoying and often confusing. They lead to arguments and add little to game play.

Yes, they are.

>>49286509
>Wisdom doesn't apply solely to Magic, even in 2e.

The book says they are guidelines. And think except for murder the rest should apply to magic only. Not my fault the book says is up to each ST.

>>49287537
>You can be a very wise bastard and you are ok
That's not how it works. Or rather, not how it should work.

>>49287502
>Anyone got any other suggestions?

Download Imperial Mysteries, the archmage sourcebook for Mage.

It's a book devoted to beings of awesome power and their adversaries.

>>49287537
>The book says they are guidelines. And think except for murder the rest should apply to magic only. Not my fault the book says is up to each ST.
It clearly fucking spells out what the entire point of Wisdom is.
The book says "these aren't the end-all, be-all, and some situations will come up we couldn't have predicted".

This part is something that the book literally already says. Making arguments on par with "ain't no rule says dogs can't play" is stupid.

>>49286726
Obsessions and premeditated murder being less hard on Wisdom than manslaughter say different.

>>49288315
>Obsessions and premeditated murder being less hard on Wisdom than manslaughter say different
Gonna need a citation for that buddy

>>49288373

This has been extensively discussed by DaveB and others.

Read the Acts of Hubris section of Mage 2e, p. 88. Premeditated murder is in Understanding Wisdom tier, and manslaughter and related acts of violent passion are on the Falling Wisdom tier.

It's also a notable theme in the Mage / Beast crossover story in the Beast Anthology, Premeditation, written by DaveB.

>>49288460
I have read that section, it references that "the darkest, most selfishly destructive acts risk degeneration". Going on to reference "killing someone in a fit of rage" as well as soul destruciton, annihiliating Supernal beings and so forth.

You can certainly commit manslaughter in a fit of rage, however in the context as given that is certainly not the intent of the section (especially given the specific use of the term "killing"), nor is it to extend to other acts of impassioned violence.

You're infering things.

>>49288506
I should clarify in that I'm referencing only Falling, not Understanding.

>>49287632
Yeah, I know, but more from the perspective of playing them. Got any tips on taking Archmages and showing how terrifying and inferiority-inducing they can be from a human perspective?

Because, yeah, Archmages are kind of my go-to Elder Gods Stand-Ins for the Chronicles.

Don't get much spookier than being able to rewrite reality by *accident*, in my opinion. But making that flashy, that's another thing.

File: calculon.png (50KB, 300x212px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 300x212px

>Playing Vampire: Requiem
>Rolled minimum on Blood, and I had to use my one dot to wake up
>Decide to go to a pet shop and eat some feeder mice for easy blood
>Forgot that animals freak out in the vicinity of a vampire
>The birds managed to escape the aviary and now the store is flooded with panicing canaries and parrots
>Steal a rabbit in the chaos and leave

The session hadn't even been going on for five minutes

>>49288639
...I think you're an autistic vampire.

How does chronicles of darkness and hunter the vigil mix? I'm currently in the stages of creating a Hunter game and am wondering if I should use CofD or god-machine. Also, how IS chronicles? Been playing old world a lot so I've never actually read the thing.

Mage Question;

Artifacts; were in mage 2e does it say how durable the things are? Ive heard things but I don't want to repeat them, because they sound silly.

Also, Could an Artifact limb/organ be a thing? Like one that requires painful surgery to use.

>>49288713

God-Machine Chronicle /is/ Chronicles of Darkness. It was a sort of 1.5e update to New World od Darkness, while the CofD corebook is 2e standalone. Hunter is 1e (with some minor updates in Mortal Remains), but there should be very few issues porting things over; HtV has some of the consistently best supplements of any gameline.

>>49288753
They're indestructible, bar the Practice of Unmaking.
They're either impervious, or regenerate from atomisation.

>>49274014
Play werewolf.
Eat the fucker.
Get essence for it.
Harmony too low?
Go fuck up some pure with silver weapons.

>>49288887
thank you.

Now were in that damn book does it say that? I have a rules lawyer player I'm preparing references for when they inevitably ask.

So is Mummy's Twilight the same as the one from other splats or is it some kind of realm in and of itself?

>>49289010
In 1e it was a realm to itself.
In 2e it's a state of matter.

>>49289010

Mummy is "wrong" by 2e standards, but I'm curious to see if the writers stick to their guns on that.

>>49289010
Twilight isn't a place. If something is "in Twilight", they remain in the world, on Earth, but they're essentially "out of phase" with it (to borrow a term) so nothing material can see, hear or interact with you without the use of magic.

Each type of thing is on a different frequency of Twilight, so immaterial spirits, ghosts, astrally-projecting witches, etc. can all be in the same place and will believe themselves alone, except for other things of their type.

But as they say, Mummy writers decided "fuck the game rules, we're too cool for that shit".

>>49289031

I thought it was always supposed to be a state of matter, it just wasn't made explicitly clear until 2e.

>>49289080

There's no doubt in my mind that the approach the Mummy/Mage crossover would take in Dark Era Companions will be the approach a 2e Mummy would take. My bets are on it being a preview of what could be for 2e Mummy.

>>49288970
Actaully, scratch that.
Supernal Artifacts can't even be destroyed with Unmaking.
Sadly they also neglected to explicitly state that Artifacts are indestructible in 2e.

>>49289245
They neglected to include mechanics for a bunch of important minor things e.g. fatigue but left in the old references from 1e for dice bonuses for mechanic rules not included. It's annoying.

Why have dread powers been so inconsistent?

Like, evidently the CofD core doesn't seem to use dots for most of the dread powers, but then Prommie went back to the dots that Hunter used?

>>49289415
prometheans uses dots for pandorans

>>49262187
I currently play Beast so yeah. It practically begs you to do it.

>>49290231
What are you doing in it?
I mean, what's the plot.

>>49290320
Story's name: Clockwork Gnosis

PC's started in an Innocence chronicle where all the 'weird kids' formed a click and eventually all got Devoured(some kids, helping others). Fast forward 20 years to the Brood practically running the joint except that they have found multiple Demon's. With the help of their Mage allies and members of VASCU they are trying to research the God Machine as a whole and try to make it not exist.
Shit.
Is.
Convoluted.
As.
Fuck.

>>49287502
You could go the other direction. The supernatural doesn't need to be that powerful. It might simply not care. A nasty but manageable parasite might use humans as food, transport or spawning pool, without dignifying them as anything more than biomass. If you want to go higher make a city-wide outbreak. A radioactive Mummy is powerful, but it cares about the characters' actions, which means humans matter. They can still feel helpless and you provide them with a great session, but there is no cosmic nihilism involved.

>>49288639
>Forgot that animals freak out in the vicinity of a vampire

Unless you have taken a Bane for it, nope. They don't.
Not any more than they freak out in the presence of a human, that is.

How do I accommodate the fact that our previous Storyteller believed in General Purpose Aggravated Damage bullets? Things are becoming too Glass Cannon-y now, even for a WoD game

>>49291032
Tell everyone that that decision was fucking retarded, and you're not going to follow it.

>Medieval cliché DM reporting in

I've been a D&D-esque type of scenario DM for my entire life but I've been interested in starting a World of Darkness campaign, but I never even played it once.

I really liked the concepts of Vampire and Changeling, but I really don't know if I should get the older versions or the newer. Also, I never used pre-made scenarios, so the corebooks are the main source of information that a DM should know or there's other sources out there?

Where should I start with to make my players shit on their pants and stop being damagedealerfags?

Help this noble dwarf to become a creature of the night.

>>49291352
>I really liked the concepts of Vampire and Changeling, but I really don't know if I should get the older versions or the newer.
Great! The new ones are generally seen as better, especially for Changeling. Changeling has not been updated to the newest edition yet, but the "old" Changeling: the Lost is regarded as one of the better nWoD games.

>Also, I never used pre-made scenarios, so the corebooks are the main source of information that a DM should know or there's other sources out there?
Yep, you need the nWoD corebook for the basic rules and the corebook of the splat (Vampires, Changelings, whatever). Other books generally give you and the players more options, but if you're used to make your own settings an plots, you shouldn't hav a problem.

>Where should I start with to make my players shit on their pants and stop being damagedealerfags?
You could always start with a simple Mortal game, because Mortals are squishy and don't have any powers. Supernaturals of all kinds can be hardier, but that depends on the character.

My suggestions is to take a closer look at the splats that already interest you and your group, and see how you like it.

>>49287664
>It clearly fucking spells out what the entire point of Wisdom is.
>The book says "these aren't the end-all, be-all, and some situations will come up we couldn't have predicted".
>This part is something that the book literally already says. Making arguments on par with "ain't no rule says dogs can't play" is stupid.

Seems some faggot doesnt know how to read

"Wisdom is a mage’s ability to judge the value of when, where, why, and how to use magic. Mages commonly call this virtue sophia, but Awakened society debates constantly on what constitutes “right” usage of their magic.

Wisdom represents the control a mage has over her magic. A character with low Wisdom runs the risk of her magic spiraling out of control. It sometimes becomes a rampant force, and Paradox follows quickly behind"

>>49286639
It's also not killing them because they are just humans not monsters. Stupid examples of humanity but human none the less. Killing them would be much worse than that. Plus Paradox is very bad. Swords don't cause paradox, so I figured Sword better than magic.

>>49291977
That murder is worse than maiming is no excuse for avoiding methods of takedown that don't involve permanent wounding.

Get your GM to use the Beaten Down condition, whereby if an enemy takes any amount of lethal, so long as your intent is not murder, they'll have to keep spending Willpower each round to do something violent.

And chumps don't really have much, or any Willpower.

>>49292014
And if she decides that is too easy and deems the beat down condition only can be attached after someone has lost 50% of their health from lethal damage, or they take a lasting injury, or witness an overwhelming show of force?

>>49292039
Then slash the torso.
50% of health should be only about 4 points for most individuals, e.g. 2 successes with something like a machete

>>49292068
Average person would be something like 7 HL. I'm using a sword which is +3 damage
Granting the rote quality to the roll and a +2 equipment bonus.

The Let's see average defense is about a 3 right? My die pool starts at 8, -3 is 5.
Of those with the rote quality in play I'm probably going to get 3-4 successes. Meaning I have a very high likely hood of killing them unless I specify something like this in order to prevent their death.

>>49292110
If you're so damn good with a sword, cut their guns in half.
That should be more than intimidating enough to get them to run off, shitting their pants.

>>49292188
That's just as likely to kill me when the guns off off accidentally not to mention having to cut though a gun? What's the structure and durability of a gun?
I do that and there is still a 50% chance that the act of cutting it in half causes the trigger to pull or the firing pin to drop. If I was a vampire and could survive a gunshot with only bashing damage, or a regenerating werewolf, yeah I'd be more inclined to do it. Or packing better than 2 general armor in general.

>>49292259
Or worse if the gun goes off at a wild angel and hits a bystander. By the same logic that says that says my original plan is a bad idea, putting bystanders at risk is just as bad. If it's just me at risk that's one thing but putting everyone else at risk, if I am beholden to Superman levels of moral thinking, is another breaking point.

>>49292259
What kind of a shitty Mage are you that you don't even have good Mage Armour?
Oh wait yeah, you went for Prime and then expected to be able to do shit unrelated to fucking with Magic.
Good times.

>>49292298
...Originally I wanted to get Forces 3 prime 2, but I really, really want to get the spell Celestial Fire because I think it's very fitting for my character. I had thought I could take it as a Paraxis and use it now, but turns out I can't, but by making my prime 3 I am closer to it and can grab it sooner.

>>49292298
I noticed you didn't cover the issue of putting bystanders at greater risk. Is there a reason?

File: maxresdefault.jpg (73KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 1440x1080px

I want to run something more like Horror.

Chronicles of Darkness what I'm looking for? Just reading CotD corebook will provide me with everything I want to make an horror campaing with humans?

Also, where can I find more material like this: >>49272339

Tiny pdfs about stuff that will help me run better?

>>49293243
The Chronicles of Darkness book is what you'll want; it should give you everything you need to run a normal mortals game (think Supernatural, X-Files, SCP, or Scooby-Doo). I THINK it has a basic horror creation/monster creation in it. If not, you could look at (and likely use with minimal effort) some books from the 1e Hunter line, Night Stalkers, Spirit Slayers, and a couple of others that are about building creatures (vampires, weres, etc.) without needing their core books. 1e also has a nice book called Antagonists that gives a lot of non-standard antagonists, including a really nice zombie creation kit.

>>49262187
In the Vamp game I was a part of, the GM had us fight a Mage for some challenge. Also my introduction to the game was fighting a bunch of Werewolves.

"yeah i mean this dude was nuts. like he just
stood there and was like ‘hit me’ and we’re like ‘no dude,’ and then he punched Chris in the chest and killed him. no kidding right. so we
threw down and beat his ass and then Chris’s brother pulled out a gun and just unloaded into this guys chest, and he got back up and was like ‘yeah ok that sucked’, and then the cops came and we all scattered. no idea wtf that was except that dude really wanted to get hurt."

This little snippet in Mortal Remains is such a hilarious snapshot of Prometheans, I actually had to stop and laugh for a few minutes straight.

>>49295400
I'd find it funnier if he hadn't killed the guy. This is so fucked up. I hope that someone lynched that crazy bastard.

>>49295400
>tfw Ferrum

File: I Have No Idea What I'm Doing.png (321KB, 589x1130px) Image search: [Google]

321KB, 589x1130px

>>49295400
Prometheans are frequently unintentionally funny.

>>49295451
>I'd find it funnier if he hadn't killed the guy

That was a fascinating story. It will make a great addition to my notes on the Principle for the Athenaeum.

It's also not like that Chris person was anyone important. He was only human. Don't worry, there's far too many more just like him.

---Erebus, Moros Adept, Censor of the Mysterium

>>49295400

The best part of Hunter is having the characters going in not knowing what the fuck.

>>49291032
Isn't that what the Hellfire Exploit does.

>>49295616
Only for the rest of the scene, and you have to be a Demon to use it.
It also costs an Aether to use, and provokes a Compromise roll, every time you use it.
It's also obvious as hell, with the gun you use(it affects a specific gun, btw, not just 'bullets you fire', but 'bullets this gun fires') growing a bit wider and seeping brimstone smoke from the barrel. Also, every shot is a plume of red-yellow flame.

Presumably, the guy you replied to's ST just had it so people could buy bullets that do agg to anything with no downside other than the cost to buy them. That's *extremely* overpowered.

So if they figured out the 'code', it would be possible for anyone to make pilgrimage marks (from promethean)?

For whatever reason when I was first reading about them, I assumed there was some azothic magic going on with them.

>>49295761
Sure, they're just hobo scratches

>>49262187
>Do you include matireils from other game-lines in your game? Like not necessary playing in a mixed party, but more like having a group of vampires ambush your Werewolf PCs or whatever.

Oh yeah, plenty of times. I mainly orchestrate VtM groups in the WoD-verse (CoD/NWoD isn't bad, but it just doesn't hold my attention), and there's been plenty of times where I've put in Werewolves/Shapeshifters, Ghosts, Mages and other stuff into the game when I feel it fits the plot. I mean, I don't just dump a werewolf into the middle of their shared haven, but if they're travelling through a forested area known to be inhabitated by a pack of werewolves? Yeah, for sure.

I especially like putting all sorts of interesting characters and creatures rom other gamelines into my group's "Hunters Hunted" plays. When you're just a widdle ol' human, coming face to face with even just a newly-embraced fledgling vampire can be a really high-tensioned scene or battle that can leave the entire party dead, and facing a werewolf? Hoo boy, that's a REALLY shitty situation to end up in, which makes for great drama and development of the story (provided they run away fast enough).

But again, only when it makes sense to the overarching plot. I'm not fond of dumping "cool" characters or creatures into a scene "just for fun".

>>49295545
Thank you for reminding me why I hate mages.

>>49296074
Trust me we all aren't like that. Some of us don't treat none mage lives like Enron Stock. I like to think I treat you all more like Sprint PCS stock.

So I've got Hunter: the Vigil and the Horror Recognition Guide. Is there anything else I need for fluff purposes or anything to start a game?

>>49296195
The World of Darkness Core Book(assuming you want to play 1e) has all the actual mechanics necessary to understand most of what's in Hunter
The Chronicles of Darkness Core Book and Hunter: Mortal Remains can also be used, if you want to use 2e rules.

>>49296151
>I like to think I treat you all more like Sprint PCS stock

Treat humans like Sprint stock in a Verizon and AT&T world, and you're still overvaluing them.

Look, I'm not suggesting we just exterminate all the ants. I'm not a monster. It's only that if you need to eliminate a few to explore or protect the Mysteries, it's hardly any great loss.

>>49296151
>>49296908
I just wish the Exarchs get fed up of your shit, kill all mages, Seers included, and topple the watchtowers.

>>49297119

The Exarchs are the very symbols of human oppression. The very worst Seer or Mysterium anti-human prejudice is nothing compared to them.

>>49297192
Blah blah blah blah. They treat me just fine.

>>49297192
It's not oppression. It's keeping nosy kids from causing even more trouble.

>>49297192
>sympathetic connection to anyone and everyone

Being a Seer is awesome

This can be a strange question. About mages. Both lines and beyond.
So it is:
Quantum mechanics. Its not as Above. So Below and Above do not match much. There is something about this horrible rulebroking shit in mage books(games or dont)

>>49297228
>Blah blah blah blah. They treat me just fine.

If the Exarchs treat you fine, that's certainly an unflattering commentary about you.

>>49297262

In Awakening, magic is not science. Do not apply the rules of one to the other.

File: Night Horrors - Brief Nightmares.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

Just finished Werewolves. Someone give me actual feedback on this shit.

Things I'm most interested to get people's opinion on:
-- Is it too complicated, or simple enough to use for antagonists?
-- Should I go into more detail about how to use these Horrors?
-- Should I include more generic things about the other gameline settings, like ways to use Covenants or Tribes or whatever?
-- Should I include tangential setting monsters, like Strix or Hosts?

Also, what non-splat stuff should I cook up? Stuff like the sample Horrors already in the CofD corebook, and the Cryptids from Demon. Anyone have suggestions for how to simplify the splats I haven't gotten to yet?

(Forgot to update the Table of Contents)

>>49297291
Free cousil thinks its both way the same. Anyway i asked maybe someone really dives into esoteric and can tell me opinions on that shit. I probably should ask somewhere else.

>>49297268
That's just like, your opinion. Go back to your pentacle.

>Free cousil thinks its both way the same.

The Free Council just believes that the the individual elements of the Fallen are a way to under that Supernal. It's just as much the Fallen World's art as it is its science.

Quantum Mechanics are as Above. It is a Fallen reflection of some sort of Supernal representation if you're a Libertine, and a neat distraction by everyone else. For Ascension, Quantum Mechanics is either a cunning attempt by the Technocracy to allow for more flashy Enlightened Science in the Consensus, or a happy accident by unenlightened scientists that allows for such. The catch is that it's also easy for Etherites to pick it up quick.

>>49298009

khoele e ncha

>>49297262
So, science and magic don't match up, since magic is all symbolism, hence why death affects cold. Quantum mechanics don't mean much to a mage.

>>49298065

A mage can certainly exploit the laws of quantum mechanics by using their magic, but the magic is not limited by such rules.

An Obrimos or Moros physicist or chemist is a very dangerous foe.