/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

I wrote a setting with an CofD translation of Fera one time. Does that count?

>>49298009
We try not to think about changing breeds.

What's a good covenant if I want my Mekhet to specialize in selling crack to children? Preferably something that lets him be a snake, too.

>>49298009
Yeah, I used changing breeds.
One PC used it to create a crow shifter included in a werewolf pack.
I used it to create one NPC that was a bat shifter who came to blows with the PCs when he tried to pretend to be a twilight-style beautiful vampire.
There was a vagrant rabbit shifter that wandered into town once, and later got into trouble briefly before escaping.
Then finally, the local Pure leader manipulated a group of coyote shifters into helping him. The PC pack came to blows with them, killed one of them and revealed another to be corrupting the coyotes from within. In the end the coyotes left on good terms with the PCs.

>>49298092

Get the Vampire Translation Guide and convert Followers of Set into a Requiem Covenant.

>>49298092
Sorry, but I'm afraid the niche of selling drugs to children is taken by the Ascending Ones. They can also spit venom, if I'm not mistaken. You can do has >>49298145 says.

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>>49297315
Relinking this from the last thread:

Just finished Werewolves, and starting on Mages. Someone give me actual feedback on this shit.

Things I'm most interested to get people's opinion on:
-- Is it too complicated, or simple enough to use for antagonists?
-- Should I go into more detail about how to use these Horrors?
-- Should I include more generic things about the other gameline settings, like ways to use Covenants or Tribes or whatever?
-- Should I include tangential setting monsters, like Strix or Hosts?

Also, what non-splat stuff should I cook up? Stuff like the sample Horrors already in the CofD corebook, and the Cryptids from Demon. Anyone have suggestions for how to simplify the splats I haven't gotten to yet?

>>49298092
Lance Sanctum.
>this is what happens if you don't have a good christian communit
Ordo Dracula
>experimenting with drugs on children, how the community reacts

>>49298355
>Carthian
We must fund the revolution
>Circle
Fuck you I do what I want
>Invictus
It makes them taste better, but let's arrest the Carthians if they do it.

>>49298226
There is crack selling daeva bloodline in 1e

>>49298293
I'll give it a look later when I have more time.

>>49298512
>Circle
>Fuck you I do what I want
that would be more unaligned
>Invictus
>It makes them taste better, but let's arrest the Carthians if they do it.
nah they don't give a shit about that

So promethean says you can 'force' a firestorm by expending pyros on purpose to cause festering triggers on a wasteland...

Does this imply that these festering triggers wouldn't rely on rolling azoth to fester? It doesn't say you can 'purposely succeed' on the roll, which is what would be necessary to purposely get multiple fester triggers. All considering, the chances of a wasteland festering for an Azoth 1 Promethean is so low that it seems hard to believe they could trigger a firestorm without doing something drastic like a real dumb attempt at making another promethean.

>>49298293
Ive read over it and the advice that you give for mimicking certain parts of it, seem sound. Overall I think it works, though I was actually expecting, say, a breakdown of some Requiem powers into new Dread Powers.

Am I reading the Mage 2e wrong, or does it have flat costs for a lot of things?

>>49300382
It has flat costs for everything
Welcome to Chronicles of Darkness/nwod 2e, where xp costs don't scale

>>49298009
I tried to use it to create some mechanics for "were-bears" didn't go too well. Still working on it in my spare time.

>>49300547
What went wrong?
That is like, a 30 minute project.

So Promethean 2e makes it evident that Alchemists only start going out and killing Prometheans when they become obsessed.

So, if they aren't out killing Prometheans, what are alchemists doing to get Pyros? Are they just getting it from other chemical compositions and experiments that don't involve prometheans? Maybe I missed something.

>>49300675

They generate their own Pyros in small amounts per week. (p.262)

I assume they spend a lot of time experimenting on potions and then brewing them. It takes a lot of time and resources to be a second-rate supernatural villain in the CofD.

>>49300848
Yeah, I know it says they generate their own pyros, but in what way?

Are they sweating it out, collecting their own dumps that just happen to contain pyros? The book doesn't seem to say. Which is why I suggested maybe they are just doing experiments that happen to create pyros. I can't tell if it is coming from within, or without.

>>49300382
2e in general has flat costs, dude.

>>49300889
I'm gonna guess they create it with alchemy.

>>49300889

It probably depends on the individual alchemist, but I assume it's internally-generated, everything from regurgitated liquid Pyros to mushy Pyros poop.

>>49300974
>>49300985
I guess it wouldn't be world of darkness if anything was for sure.

Do you think nWoD is the best system to run Berserk?

>>49301662
No

>>49301662
I'd recommend Exalted.
Alternatively, D&D or an OSR game(Lamentations of the Flame Princess, in particular, would work well with the general aesthetic Berserk has, afaik)

>>49298293
>>49299017
I like it!

>>49301716
>I'd recommend Exalted
And doom him to that community? Why do you hate him, anon?

>>49302719
Stones, glass houses, etc.

Is the real benefit of techne in group spellcasting? Being able to use an art form performed with sleepers as two order tools seems pretty crap, unless you can count them both as dedicated Magical tools.

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>>49302783
No, not really. I spend most of my gaming community time on /tg/, but when I first got into Exalted years ago I spent a lot of time on the official forums and a few other ones. This is one game I will forever hate because of that community. 2e was a fucking mess mechanically but I had fun with it, but there's something sick deep in the Exalted fan culture. People obsess and explode into real intense anger over minor shit that even here would be weird as hell. It is like a corrupting mental virus that eventually burned me on the whole game and culture. When 3e hit, I went back to see what had become of it in the years since and somehow it got worse.

The WoD/CofD fans are bad sometimes, especially on the official OPP forums (and the LARP crowd is sometimes just weird) but there's something sick at the core of Exalted that does things to people. I was getting that way too when I decided to disengage, and my gaming group I met through it overall became a lot happier and less prone to angry outbursts when we stopped engaging with it.

Exalted, never fucking again.

>>49302719
But I like both communities. The Exalted community isn't bad. Okay it's not great but it's not bad. There are many worse ones.

>>49302925
>The Exalted community isn't bad.

Yes it is. The /tg/ branch is the exception in not being shit, the whole of the thing is garbage.

>>49301662
Shadow of the Demon Lord has the atmosphere, but you don't have the invincible Guts-like power. Exalted is good for that but it doesn't have the setting.

>>49302844
No comment?
Where my Libertines at?

>>49302871
Back on the old White Wolf forums I had managed to inoculate myself to the sheer toxicity of the community and thrive there without losing my head. For some twisted reason I miss it. It might just be that I've grown older, but the Onyx Path Exalted forums just aren't the same.

>>49298512
>>Circle
>Fuck you I do what I want
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cplUonBPjrs

Is it just me, or is Mage 2e borderline unplayable?

Most spells give no indication of whether they are Lasting or not, merely implying vaguely by whether or not they have duration as the primary spell factor. Otherwise you have to guess, and a lot aren't clear cut.

Does Essence Fountain create Lasting Essence? Does Shadow Walk pull you back into the mundane world after its duration ends, or do you stay in the Shadow until you find a way to return?

And then there's all the half-assed creation spells that let you create things but don't tell you what their stats are, like Birth Spirit.

Containing Paradox is either overpowered or way too brutal, depending on how you read the self-contradictory text (can you Scour at any time to remove the Condition, thus making it utterly pointless? do you have to wait the ONE MONTH for it to time out first? It's worded both ways!).

Meanwhile, releasing can make a spell fizzle out on a single paradox success, so you'll never want to use that option. Ever. Period. Unless your ST is very nice or decides to fuck you over even harder than a fizzled spell.

Has there ever been a rule more awkwardly designed than combined spells? Seriously, what the fuck is this noise?

2e has had a lot of improvements over all. VtR 2e had a lot of problems like these, but I chalked it up to being the first book of a new edition and they needed to iron out some problems.

But Mage is twice as bad as VtR was, so it looks like they're just taking a nosedive down hill.

And this is after errata.

Until I discover a massive improvement in the mechanical quality of 2e, I'm done buying them.

>>49304601

Why let Mage sour you on a wider universe you apparently enjoy? What the fuck does DaveB's incompetence have to do with how good Vampire, Werewolf, and Demon are and will continue to be in supplements, or how Dark Eras was one of the best supplements yet?

>>49298009
>Have you ever used or seen somebody try to use Changing Breeds?

What, for Werewolf the Apocalypse or Werewolf the Forsaken?

If it's the former, then yes. Plenty of fun stuff to incorporate into the more exotic stories and whatnot, so long as it fits the story's theme and plot.

If it's the latter, then no. My experience with the entire gameline of Werewolf the Forsaken has been pretty much "Meh" and "Ugh".

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>>49304601
It has its issues, but it's hardly borderline unplayable.
I find it fairly easy to determine which spells should have Lasting effects, and creation spells are no problem when you can create the object/spirit with your GM.

Paradox sucks, especially with the ease of removing a Paradox condition. Oh, they also follow the rules for Conditions. So either they auto-lapse at the end of a period of time determined by your Wisdom where you get no Beats, or you resolve them through actions (probably through pattern scouring) and get a beat for doing so.

Also yeah, relinquishing control sucks with Willpower points. But what do you fucking expect? You get those back one a day, and there are spell to get them back faster. Given the lack of any rules about spell tolerance, you could easily just spend a few days stacking up a whole load of spells on yourself. Hopefully there will be advanced relinquishment rules in Signs of Sorcery, but for now the ability for a GM to have (at worst) a 1/10 chance of killing each of your baby-relinquished spells at the end of each session is fine by me.

Anything out there that could help me run a few sessions of Changeling the Lost inside arcadia? I like my players to start as regular people when playing WoD games but am having issues with making that happen with Changeling (a game i've wanted to try runing for a while now). I figured the only way to do that would be to have the characters taken ingame and play out (at least for a bit) what actually happened when they were taken.

>>49304900

That might be tough because part of the fun of Changeling is building your crazy character concept, and if you don't know the end result you want the Durance might feel kinda aimless. That's before the struggles of everyone sharing a single Keeper being somewhat restrictive in character concepts, though the shared escape makes for a gripping intro story.

I would have everyone come up with Changeling character concepts, and then backport them into being mortals being transformed in Arcadia.

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>>49304900
Only way I can see that working is with a series of pre-game mini-sessions for each player. Alternatively, have a few really short ones, and have them all sold to the same Gentry by a slaver.

Have a few sessions of them just surviving, the craziness and surrealness of their surroundings and how they've got to make pacts with Arcadia just to be able to eat and sleep.

Then have them engage their big escape, and kill a few on the way out. But give them a good send off.

Then after bursting out of the Hedge, inform the survivors that they hardly remember anything that went on inside, with half-formed memories of those who fell, and the ever-present fear that their previous master may come for them.

Good shit.

>>49304920
>>49304942
ya, what I was thinking was if they wanted, pick their kiths and seemings, then make some mortal characters and I would have things that would make the stuff that would cause those effects to happen. I figured I would either do solo games for each of them and at the end have them taken or maybe do a psuedo-mortal game, I was thinking maybe having a bunch of abductions happen around the city and have them try to figure out what was going on, which led to their capture.

My idea for how to do arcadia was to have a kinda regal true-fae who needed servants and things for his manor, so guards, groundskeepers, butlers, etc. I'm thinking that due to arcadias fucking weirdness it would't be out of place to have some WEIRD jobs that servants do. The characters would then meet and it would the next few sessions would be them planning an escape of some sort.

>>49304601
>Is it just me, or is Mage 2e borderline unplayable?
It's definitely just you.

Most of your problems also seem completely dumb. Maybe you should try playing it first.

>>49304601
>Is it just me, or is Mage 2e borderline unplayable?
Having played around a dozen sessions of M2e now, it's definitely just you.
I find it extremely playable.

Though I do share your annoyance with how hard it is to gauge if a spell is Lasting or not.

>>49302871
Been there done that Bro. Its a weird mix of entitlement and cult habits. Worship and power fantasies. It really kills the fun when politics and power dynamics dictate the game. Especially when you're trying to be the responsible one doing work, while everyone else is wanking themselves off.

>>49305169

While I don't agree with the poster (I find that Mage 2e has a steep learning curve but works smoothly after) but it's valid to judge the book as an instruction manual.

Their conclusion still might be flawed, but nine times out of ten "you haven't played it!" isn't the best counterpoint.

>>49306310

What if he's a cyber hacker talking about his favorite Nabokov book while speaking his decking lingo?

The answer, of course, is to mock him for not having Pale Fire as his favorite.

>>49300407
is that an issue?

>>49306466
Depends if you like flat costs or not.
You can't exactly do scaling costs with a system like Beats.

>>49306466
It's actually one of the great things about CofD compared to nWoD.

>>49306477

I've seen no real XP pace changes from one to the other, to be honest.

>>49306497
Neither have I.
But that's because my players are fuckwits who don't like Conditions and choosing to Dramatically Fail tests.

They think I'll kill them with it or something.

>>49306563
W-will you?

>>49306586
No. I just want their characters to suffer.
And in exchange for my jollies, they get experience.
A fair trade.

>>49306640
as it should be. Remember, like Aspirations Obsessions give Arcane Beats for making headway. Also You can Switch up Obsessions in the middle of the session if need be.

>>49306661
I wanted to.
But they were also really shitty as pursuing their Obsessions and Aspirations as well.

As much as I told them, I don't think they got that I don't just hand out the "reasonable" amount of Beats each session.

>>49306677
looks like the problem is your players

>>49306685
Always knew it was.
God I wish I had good players to choose from.

>>49306293
It's not JUST that he hasn't played it, but he seems to have a wildly different understanding of the game compared to everyone else, including people who have played it.

>>49304601
>Lasting
There are spells without Duration as the primary factor that aren't Lasting. The way to tell if something is Lasting is, essentially, if it changes the world in a way that would be sustained without the Mage's intervention.
>Essence Fountain
It creates essence. That Essence won't go away at the end of the scene because it's made right into the subject's Pattern, feeding it.
>Shadow Walk
Shadow Walk doesn't put you in the Shadow in the first place; you might mean World Walker, which does put you on the other side of the Gauntlet. It's Lasting, unless you Materialize a Spirit.
>Birth Spirit
It creates a Rank 1 Spirit, the traits of which are found on page 254.
>>49304862
>>49304601
>Paradox
You don't Scour the Condition away, you Scour the Paradox out of your pattern. You're stuck with the Condition until you either wait it out or deal with the Resolution (which is generally bad). Once you've Resolved the Condition, all your Spells cause Paradox and your Nimbus is tainted until you Scour it.

Paradox generally won't cause a spell to fizzle, though it can happen if you're already tweaking Spell Factors down to the wire, or you're on your third Paradox for the scene.

>Combined Spells
You didn't actually give a complaint, so I can't tell you how it is or isn't awkward. Take a penalty, cast two spells at once with all the same Factors. It's pretty simple. Heck, I think it's better than 1e's.
Frankly, I find Paradox a clunkier and more time consuming mechanic due to all the rolls.

>Until I discover a massive improvement in the mechanical quality of 2e, I'm done buying them.
Every single one of the games has had a vastly improved mechanical quality over 1e. Even Beast is mechanically better than many of the 1e books, and it has two themes that cancel each other out.

>>49306310
But you just started talking about loli. That means you're the pedophile!

>>49306477
You can, but it would take forever.
I mean, no one used the existing XP cost rules anyway, where you generally got at most 5xp a session. You're not going to be buying things willy nilly every session when your next increase costs 20xp.

>>49306677
>>49306723
How are they not following their Aspirations and Obsessions? Shit, hit them with Conditions regardless. Maybe when they finally realize they'll HAVE to trigger the Resolution, they'll realize it's not so bad.

>>49306842
>deal with the Resolution
Fun fact. All the Abyssal Conditions list "the mage Scours the Condition from her Pattern" as a resolution.

>>49306877
And then you have to Scour again to get rid of the Abyssal Taint in your Pattern!

I don't know about you, but I like not taking 2L on a regular basis, on top of the bashing damage from containing the paradox in the first place.

>>49306913
Taint only settles in your Pattern if you let the condition lapse, which you haven't done, because you've resolved it.

Time for last second prep for session three of my solo Promethean game.

Plan for this session:
The pandoran the PC woke up needs more pyros, so it is going to stop by again.
Plus they took sides in a rural drug war, so that will probably come to a head if there is time.

>>49306954
Oh, so it does. Still, taking lethal damage isn't exactly easy peasy. That shit takes two days to heal, and if you're doing the kind of thing that leads to Paradox in the first place, you probably won't be in a position to take damage.

That said, I do wish Bashing and Lethal lasted longer. Even Aggravated.

>>49306981
Who are you, why are you posting that here, and why do you think we care?

Have I just had really bad luck with Changeling games or is the game/community just not for me?

Every game I've played so far should have been titled "world of darkness: special victims unit". It's like theirs a race to the bottom for the most disturbing backstory.

>>49307125
Why am I posting about my cofd game in /wodg/?

Um, anon, I think you might want to reevaluate that question.

>>49307116
Eh, thing is if you reach super far, then take the condition from keeping the paradox in your soul, odds are you can resolve your problem with you super-powered spell.

>>49307143
Some people get caught up in the dismay, or to them it's torture porn.

My darkest Changeling was a dude who broke out of basically horrible mine/forge where he had to feed the fallen workers into the furnace, and the soot, smoke and fire stained his body.
Forged a sword with his heartsblood, broke his chains and escaped.
His fetch was a worthless drunk who cut ties with his family, and didn't even go to his Dad's funeral.

He took pleasure in ending that worthless sack of twigs and leaves.

>>49307192

Clearly you were mistaken, this is the "argue with someone about aspects of the setting" thread.

>>49307273
Oh, my bad.

>>49306842

>It's not JUST that he hasn't played it, but he seems to have a wildly different understanding of the game compared to everyone else, including people who have played it.

All I'm saying is "you haven't played it" isn't a real cut and dry argument on why someone's criticism of a game can be wrong. I could easily see someone getting confused about all those things, whether that's the fault of the player or the fault of the book itself.

>>49307125
>Telling people not to post about their game
Why do you hate the thread?

>>49306981
I need to run my solo game that might have other players eventually. Currently she's in Cuprum as a Watcher, and she just broke into the apartment of the girl she's been stalking to find her ex-no-longer boyfriend sleeping in her bed after clearly having had sex with her. So she's now stolen some of his hair to spy on him with Sensorium and will probably try to kill him or scare him off.

>>49307143
Hopefully 2e will take a bit of that off by focusing more on recovery and dealing with life, instead of just "woe is me".
What kind of disturbing backstories?

I haven't really experienced that many. I don't even think I've seen that many "I WAS RAPED REPEATEDLY FOREVER". Usually in my experience they're more along the lines of being put through faerie tales or weird situations repeatedly.

>>49307236
Iunno. I don't think there really are that many "SOLVE ALL MY PROBLEMS IMMEDIATELY" spells. Really, you've got to worry more when you're trying for precision in a pinch. Killing someone dead is *less* likely to cause Paradox.

As for my 'darkest' Changeling:
It was a transman who was kicked out of his home for being a queermo. Got seduced by a faerie king and essentially became a caged bird of a boytoy. When he realized that was an abusive, controlling relationship, he bounced. He's been a bit of a depressing queer stereotype ever since, but he's got a day-at-a-time approach to things, and tends to have one or two boyfriends at a time who's cabinets he can raid.

>>49305169
I've been playing it, friend. For multiple sessions a week for about a month now.

That's why I know it's borderline unplayable with unclear and self-contradictory rules.

>>49304617
I do enjoy it. Which is why I'm so frustrated. As I said, it's not just Mage. Vampire had a lot of problems like this, too. Such as referencing Foot Chase rules months before such rules even existed, despite being "self-contained." Poorly thought out and incomplete rules seems to be the new status quo.

>>49306842
Yes, spells without Duration as the primary spell factor are more likely to be Lasting. That was my point. I had someone contest that Essence Fountain could possibly be Lasting, especially given most other Creation spells are not Lasting. And yes, I meant World Walker. You talk like it's Lasting is a fact spelled out in the book, but there's no evidence for this position.

And rank 1 spirits have a range of possible stats. Creating at the minimum seems a reasonable assumption, but that's all it is.

Birth Spirit not being Lasting while Essence Fountain is seems also inconsistent, given all it takes to make a spirit without magic is a strong emotion. Same as Essence, really. They shouldn't need magic to sustain them when created, but they do.

As for Paradox, you're once again assuming it's one way without evidence. As another anon says, they list scouring as a means of resolution. The paragraph that explains scouring Paradox is poorly written, like a different person wrote the second half because it doesn't match at all with the first half.

And yes, as I said, I find some solid improvements in 2e. Flat costs. Changes to Dramatic Failures. Improved Morality systems (Mage's seems half-assed though, too, and seems to have less than a quarter of the writing space dedicated to it that others have) and better Virtue/Vice.

But they also reference rules that don't exist, contain half-written and unclear rules, and contradict themselves.

>>49307390
>That's why I know it's borderline unplayable with unclear and self-contradictory rules.
Other people seem to be managing just fine.
Foot chases referenced in Vampire mean the "Foot Chase" action under the Athletics skill. Though in 1e those rules were a lot more complicated than a simple Contested action. It was Extended, and you had to overcome the other person's Speed.

>You talk like it's Lasting is a fact spelled out in the book, but there's no evidence for this position.
I talk like it doesn't need to be spelled out as Lasting because it follows the guidelines set forth on when a spell would be Lasting.

Birth Spirit also would be Lasting. It also takes quite a bit more than *just* strong emotions to create more than just motes.

I really don't understand this sentiment I keep seeing where "that seems a reasonable assumption" isn't all that's necessary.

I really just don't understand your problems. They're not things that other people seem to be stumbling over for the most part, and at least some of it seems to be misunderstandings on your part.

I mean, there are 'missing' rules, but as far as I know I'm the only one who's complained about Parkour, or the fact that it seems to be written subtly different each time.

>>49307548
>Birth Spirit also would be Lasting.
Errata changed its primary factor to Duration. That would be a strange thing to do if it's Lasting.

Which is kind of entirely my point. It looks Lasting, but logically it isn't or else Duration wouldn't be the primary factor.

There's no consistency.

>>49304987
Are you planning to incorporate 2nd edition Seeming rules? In that case player's will give you really good tips on how they want their characters to escape.
Beast: make them break taboos and act like animals to break out.
Fairest: Assigned Team Leader.
Darklings: Let them be the token evil teammate.
Wizened: Their special talent should be key to their freedom.
Ogres: These are begging for an epic fight scene (though don't be ashamed to nerf their opponents)
Elementals: Give their mortal some impossible challange that would require them to "become one with all" or something like that.
This way their Seemings will feel earned. Or you could let your players pick Kiths and decide unlock their seemings after their escape based on their choices, if your players agree to it.

How wide should influences for a spirit reasonably be?

>>49307548

>Other people seem to be managing just fine.

This has got to be the TTRPG version of "works fine on my machine".

>I really don't understand this sentiment I keep seeing where "that seems a reasonable assumption" isn't all that's necessary.

Because what is reasonable and what is not is ultimately subjective, which isn't a great thing for your several hundred page role-playing game where one will be interacting with the rules a lot. There are times, especially in Mage, when that is ultimately unavoidable, but a game writer should try to steer clear of that as much as possible.

The moment a technical writer assumes that "common sense" will prevail is the moment when the editor should be very worried. You'll never understand this because you've never actually had a project go beyond the initial writing stages.

>>49307590
Oh, then clearly it isn't Lasting!
I suppose that's probably because Potency does nothing for the spell.

Also, there's plenty of consistency.

>>49307640
Broad as need be, but not so broad as to cover everything.

>>49307694
>This has got to be the TTRPG version of "works fine on my machine".
I see it more as "do you seriously need everything spelled out for you?"

Most of this is barely even going as far as "common sense".

>>49307723

>I see it more as "do you seriously need everything spelled out for you?"

Of course you would see "we need to be as close to 100% clear about these rules we're making" as "Do I have to spell it out for you?"

Obviously no one can cover every single detail with the reality of word count. I think the Mage writers tried their absolute hardest, especially during an incredibly tumultuous development cycle. It's all a matter of risk, and they picked and chose their battles when it came to writing rules. It didn't work out for some and it worked out great for others and that alone is a victory.

I'm saying that so you absolutely know that I'm addressing only you about this, and why not understanding why rules clarity is important is one of your serious flaws as a person who aspires to write for games.

>>49307723
>Also, there's plenty of consistency.
Even something as basic as Mage Armor has no consistency.

Half the Mage Armors scale with Arcana dots and half just have a flat effect that never changes once you unlock it.

>>49307723
So something like Influence: Emotions or Influence:animals is probably bad, but influence:Camaraderie or Influence:cat is better?

>>49307882
The problem is that I only see this shit from /wodg/. You act like the rules are something obtuse and impossible to understand, and that any hint of ambiguity makes something unplayable.

The thing that I find most confusing is that no one ever brings up the ACTUAL problems I've seen in the rules. It's always needing things spelled out. There are places I feel that's necessary (like everything to do with combat), but "which spells are Lasting" seems completely unnecessary, especially given the sidebar that does exactly that.

>>49307930
The only two Mage Armours not based on your Arcanum are Spirit and Death, which got a buff. That's far from "half".

>>49307948
Yes.

>>49308120
>That's far from "half".
It's also far from consistent! Which was the point. Quit moving goalposts.

>>49308185
The notion that there needs to be consistency in them to begin with is a flawed argument. None of them are consistent. Hell, the fact that Spirit and Death are effectively the same is more of a problem than inconsistency.

"It's inconsistent!" was your goalpost, not mine. The game is consistent where it needs to be. That doesn't mean that the whole thing is exactly the same across everything. I mean, shit, you were talking about consistency in what is or isn't Lasting. Then I pointed out that there is and you moved to Mage Armour. "That is consistent" "W-well this thing isn't, so there!"

For what it's worth, personally, I would make Birth Spirit Lasting, but I can completely understand why they didn't. It's something that needs to be sustained by the Mage, as opposed to creating a change that will persist even after the Mage stops sustaining the effect (for instance, damage or healing).

>>49307882
>I'm saying that so you absolutely know that I'm addressing only you about this, and why not understanding why rules clarity is important is one of your serious flaws as a person who aspires to write for games.
As an aside, I find this silly, considering as far as I'm concerned my biggest flaw is that I spend way too many words explaining things instead of treating the reader as if they have common sense.

>>49308120
>The problem is that I only see this shit from /wodg/. You act like the rules are something obtuse and impossible to understand, and that any hint of ambiguity makes something unplayable.
>implying you don't do the same thing
>changing breeds
>inferno

I'm working on a new spirit for a game, the totem of a Pure pack born out of the Great War, representing the idea of war and more particularly the Camaraderie that it endears in those who fight and die together, I was hoping I could get your guys opinions on the ban/bane i have for it so far, I've never been terribly good at this spirit stuff.

http://pastebin.com/wbfyyeG2

>>49307948
The more broad you get the more powerful the spirit would be. Influence Emotions/Animals would be a spirit of the entire animal kingdom or emotions altogether, king of every other animal/emotion spirit.

STing Mage Neolithic soon. Would like to freak my players with an Omphalos Stone from a clearly negative god. What God should it be?

I can't use an animal because that's too normal, and going with Tentacle or Darkness is not the flavor I want. Would The Outsider be good?

>>49308260
>Then I pointed out that there is
Except you didn't. I just gave up on arguing with a brick wall.

There is no consistency with Lasting. There can't be, because it's not even mentioned beyond a handful of spells. Unless you mean it's consistently forgotten about.

The sidebar is useless, too.

It says that environmental changes are Lasting. What is environmental about World Walker? Why do you think it's Lasting?

Salt the Earth literally creates an Extreme Environment tilt. Shouldn't it then be Lasting by the sidebar? But it's primary factor is Duration!

Not to mention that it talks about killing all life then goes on to explain what happens if something somehow survives the "kill all life" spell despite not having withstand or a dice roll or any indication whatsoever of how you'd go about surviving it.

>>49308377
Not...quite, an entity starts out fairly vague, representing stuff like dogs, trees, love and as it grows stronger its influences grow into more specialized fields. Dogs stops being just "dogs", it becomes loyalty. A lion spirit might grow into something that encompasses majesty, or it might grow influences relating to predation.

>>49308373
What rank is it?

Remember, a bane is a material, a ban is a compulsion

Ban: Must fight alongside allies

>>49308454
>Not...quite, an entity starts out fairly vague
a spirit starts as a reflection, it's not vague at all
if there's a dog, it becomes a spirit of that dog
from there it expands
a spirit of "animals" would reflect the existence of all animals

>>49308536
I was under the impression a bane didn't have to be a physical material and could be an "energy". also it's a rank 3. It's influences are war(*) and Camaraderie(**), I'm still trying to figure out if "war" is a bit too broad, but I feel as though "Murder" would be wrong too. Maybe Violence?

>>49308358
What?
We're talking about 2e.
Those rules aren't bad because they're obtuse. They're bad because they're garbage mechanics that barely do what they're intended to do.

>>49308454
That's not becoming more specialized, that's gaining Influences. You don't even need to be incredibly powerful for that. If it worked the way you suggest, then stronger Spirits would have less Influence.

>>49308399
World Walker is a fucking door. You don't get sucked back through the room when someone closes the door.

Salt The Earth causes an Extreme Environmental Tilt. It lasts equal to the Duration. When the Duration ends, everything that was changed by Salt the Earth stays dead, but nothing new is stopped.
Things that survive are things that manage to not be killed by the Tilt. If you do make the spell Lasting, then the Tilt will last forever! Or at least until drastic narrative changes are undertaken to fix the blight you've created.

Again, what I see here is you not wanting to put two and two together and complaining about it.

>>49308566
Vague in the sense of it representing a single thing, and just that thing as it exists. The reflection of a dog is just a dog, but a particularly powerful dog spirit might be less a dog more of a totem that represents loyalty or some such. Also Animals would likely be too broad, if you had a spirit of two completely different animals it'd likely go Maggath.

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>>49308603
Rank 3, difficult to obtain but still natural

Pick a battle it was from, a weapon used in that battle (like the one all those people died from)

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That's a little old, isn't it anon?

>>49308616
I'm trying to get through your thick skull that the "sidebar" that you say excuses gross negligence on the part of the writers does not hold up logically or with the examples of actual Lasting spells in the book, thus making it useless.

Yes, it makes logical sense that Salt the Earth works that way.

No, the sidebar doesn't cover it and is thus insufficient.

And World Walker is not a door. You are drawing that conclusion without evidence. In fact, it explicitly states that it doesn't create a door.

Reaching can create a door. Place of Power can create a door, if you count having a Gauntlet strength of 0.

You are confusing your interpretation for the only interpretation, and my point is there are multiple interpretations which is /bad/ for mechanics in a game like Mage.

>>49308812
>gross negligence
Oh come the fuck on. I'll excuse "LITERALLY UPLAYABLE" when that's clearly untrue, but quit acting like this is some massive impossible to comprehend issue.

>You are confusing your interpretation for the only interpretation
Meanwhile, you're completely avoiding any interpretation. No, World Walker is not a door. I was making a metaphor in the hopes that you would comprehend. Clearly I was wrong.

The sidebar explains it pretty fucking clearly. It doesn't go against any of the examples of Lasting spells in the book.

For fucks sake you haven't even explained WHY you don't know what would or wouldn't be Lasting. You just keep giving examples that are pretty clear. If the sidebar isn't clear, then I must be some Ubermensch, but I'm pretty sure that's not the answer.

>>49309017
>>49308812
I'm pretty sure the answer is clear, anons. One or both of you are fucking retards and/or trolling. Good god, just let it go and let's just talk about how Hunter is the best gameline and are the true protagonists of Chronicles.

>>49309038
But somehow also the best antagonists of chronicles.

So umm. Is it bad the first positive experience I had with a WoD game was Beast, and it's become my favorite. Though my only other experience was Requiem and it left me feeling a bit turned off to the product line.

>>49309171
>my only other experience was Requiem and it left me feeling a bit turned off to the product line.
y?

>>49309171
Ok. If you've only played one other CofD game, and it was shit, then it's obvious that you'll like Beast more.

>>49309171
It's not necessarily "bad" to enjoy Beast, no. It depends on what you enjoyed about it; odds are, it was the parts of Beast that are actually good, or something that can be credited to your ST.
If you enjoyed the part of the game where you're an unapologetically evil monster with no actual redeeming qualities, or the part where there's no reason for you to actually do anything at all, let alone work with other people to do anything, then yeah, that's a little bad.

>>49309017
>you haven't even explained WHY you don't know what would or wouldn't be Lasting
Because there's no explanation.

Everyone else I've talked to has had similar problems with whether or not spells are Lasting.

Some people are so narcissistic as to see their point of view as the only point of view with absolutely no ambiguity. I'm glad it's working so well for you, but most people aren't so deranged.

>>49309193
I think it was how the Vampire society was so double faced, untrusting, and self destructive. My poor fledgling vampire in his first few sessions spent so much time in domination mind violation, that if he charged the other PC's standard where rates for letting them roll him in there schemes on eachother he could have gone from resources 2 to 5.

>>49309171
If you had fun, you had fun. That said, due to the way their settings are, if you had a bad experience with Requiem, it might be the ST's fault. If you had a good experience with Beast, you might have just had a good ST, it's a rather sparse setting.

What were your experiences with both?

>>49309113
>>49309038
Hunter is great because it's the essence of WoD. It's the most toolboxy of gamelines. But I'm not sure how its 2e will work well when most of what made it unique is now core.

>>49309281
So is it equally bad if I play video games just to kill baddies?
Enjoying being a monster in Beast doesn't make you bad.

>>49309316
that's a shitty st problem
one that can happen in beast

>>49309301
For fucks sake why does it even matter? Jesus Christ, you're bitching that the game is unplayable because of something that's not even that damned important.

Does it occur to you that what your group decides fits the guidelines is ultimately what matters? For fucks sake the entire point of Mage is to use the examples and guidelines to create your own spells. Not bitch about how you don't understand it.

>>49309316
>I think it was how the Vampire society was so double faced, untrusting, and self destructive.
This is part of the setting as standard. If you dislike this, you might be right, Requiem might not be the game for you.

>My poor fledgling vampire in his first few sessions spent so much time in domination mind violation, that if he charged the other PC's standard where rates for letting them roll him in there schemes on eachother he could have gone from resources 2 to 5.
This however mostly sounds like asshole players.

>>49309345
I think that's why I liked beast, beasts have a surprising amount of trust for beings who are basically like Spawn.

Beast hives are heavy on trust. After all when you open your soul to another and they can roam into your heart that is explicit trust.

>>49308616
As someone who has used changing breeds mechanics, as written, multiple times. I call BS on that.

Go ahead and hate the fluff, but the mechanics work.

>>49309497
If that is what you want: Go Werewolf.

A werewolf pack is all about unity, trust, and cooperation.

>>49309643
I had thought of it but my next game has me playing a mage, for plot reasons but I'll be hanging around Werewolves.

>>49309499
They really don't. Most of the mechanics are really bad, and random as hell.

I'm not going to say they're unplayable, but they aren't good.

>>49309700
You can say they arent good, because in the end that is just your opinion. But they are playable, and so what they intend to do to a degree (comparable to wtf 1e or prom 1e, which means by 2e standards it is all lackluster and underpowered)

>>49309817
They show a clear lack of mechanical consistency or integrity, though to be more definite about what it's problems were, I'd need to read the book again. I've played worse games, but it's very much in line with the 1e books, many of which had inconsistent powers, dead levels, and traits that were nearly worthless or had no real rules attached.

Many WoD games had that problem. Like Changeling 1e.

>>49299522
Wow and I thought FATE had jargon.

>>49308398

Outsider's good. How about maybe:

The Pit
Drowning
Void
Suspicion
Collapse

Haven't read Neolithic Mage in a while so I can't quite confirm that these are lore friendly choices, though.

>>49310043
Thanks anon, The Pit and The Drowned are cool, probably gonna use them.

So I know I've been pestering you all with this but here is Ammon's background and sheet. I turned on comments, so please feel free to. Will help me in making changes.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1e7EvB4TBBRZ6KEc7RiKdejlzlltzMEP6R-wzuUb8GI8/edit?usp=drive_web

>>49309971

Promethean really loves its special words, about as much as Werewolf loves its moonman language.

>>49311118
It has nothing on mage.

>>49304249
>It might just be that I've grown older, but the Onyx Path Exalted forums just aren't the same.
They're the same, and if anything the WoD/CofD forums are less shitty than they were in the past. Exalted got worse somehow, probably due to the three year wait for a new edition while stewing in the madness the game dispenses on people. They'll probably mellow out once 3e is more than a few books in, unless the devs drop the ball time wise again.

>>49304601
N-no you just didn't read it properly! If you interpret it in this specific way, then there's no problem!

>>49311441
>If you use common sense the game works

>>49311492
>my specific interpretation is common sense

>>49311640
>The interpretation shared by the vast majority of people who play the game, but not me, is not common sense

>>49310282
So everything looks good?

I want to fuck Father Wolf!

>>49315284
I don't think you're going to find a time mage that powerful, or a death mage willing.

Death mage to revive his bones so you can pork his undead corpse.

>>49315337
>not building your Sundered World character around the dream of fucking the most powerful being in existence

pleb

>>49315356
Please the second most powerful at best

>>49315533

Name a better DILF than Father Wolf.

>>49315609
Sorry only got a MILF
Dark Mother.
Who is arguably his Mommy so yeah she'd be stronger.

>>49315654

And now I need someone to ERP me getting spitroasted by Father Wolf and the Dark Mother.

>>49315337
When a pangean is killed, their remains last for centuries or more as some kind of withered decayed giant ruin. Their heart is removed to prevent them healing, but if it is reunited they might come back.

So here's the question, did the Firstborn who slew him eat his heart-soul or was it just removed and hidden? Because if it was torn out and left somewhere in the world, that could be a long term high power goal for a game.

>>49315724

And don't forget that we've seen one Firstborn return to life after their remains were eaten in Ravening Wolf, patron of the Eaters of the Dead.

Werewolf is pretty well-off in terms of having its important topics addressed, but it could really use an 'endgame' book that details Tier 3 and Tier 4 plots, what kind of crazy stuff happens at Primal Urge 10, and how to found a new Tribe.

>>49315654
The Dark Mother?
You mean Luna?

>>49315768
Have we? is that in The Pack?

>>49315971

Yeah, they're in The Pack and one of the highlights of that book. The founder of their Lodge found the corpse of what might be a Firstborn in Mongolia and devoured, and was then transformed into their totem. It seems like they're well on the road to becoming a new Tribe, as they have a Firstborn? patron and a favored prey.

>>49315971
No he means Ammut

So Ammon's adventure will be starting soon. He'll be working with a shard of the former great Pack in Milwaukee.

How bad for my wisdom is hanging out with werewolves going to be?

>>49316809
Pretty fucking bad.
Werewolves kill people dude, then they get over it by eating a hamburger.

>>49316841
Sooo....I'm hearing "your going to need to summon a supernal thearapist."

>>49316841
>Werewolves kill people dude, then they get over it by eating a hamburger.
Does that mean I'm a werewolf

>>49317041
Quick way to find out. Go get a fork out of the good silver and scratch yourself with it. How do you feel? How does the wound look? Any blistering, boiling, or blackening of the skin? Yes? Your a werewolf. No? Your just sociopathic.

>>49316809
are you okay with hunting people/monsters down at least every three months?
killing important people?
giant monsters?
other werewolves?
other mages?
gods?

>>49317134
Umm. I'll go in order.
>Hunting monsters ever 3 weeks?
Yes.
>Hunting people?
"These people did something to deserve this right?"
>Killing important people?
"Are you sure they are really a vampire and desired it, they seemed to go down a bit easy for a vampire?"
>Giant monsters?
"I'll cover you guys! From back here with these binoculars. That counts as sense range right?"
>Other werewolves?
"Okay I'll cover the rear. Leave their shaman to me. He won't see it coming."
>other mage's?
"I don't want to do this but if you don't leave in peace, then my friends here are going to insist you leave in pieces."
I'm going to try to negotiate out of it but....if they won't listen to logic then yes I might have to and be a good soldier.
>God's?
...meep

>>49317276
Neat, enjoy your slide into low Wisdom.

>>49317123
Lame. I just want to keep the sun rising, you know?

>>49317298
I am suddenly getting the idea the phrasesame "don't tell me I don't want to know" And "Oh, look at the mysterious architecture, I think I will go check it out" As well as "right that's my question to go and buy some butter burgers isn't it?" Are going to become rote.

>>49317432
What the fuck is a butter burger?

>>49317432
You're still an accessory to their Sins.
It's not quite as bad, but still fucked up.
I wouldn't let you get off that easy.

In fact, suspecting they're going to do something horrible, then deciding to wander off rather than stand up for the "right" way would potentially be worse.

>>49317454
A wonderful food from up here in Wisconsin. You cook a burger in a half a tablespoon of butter, the use the other half to butter the bun. Google Culvers

>>49317488
But I'm sure they had no other choice but to do that horrible thing, I'm sure that (Vampire, Pure, Monster, or what ever it is or that they convinced me it is) left them no other choice and they were just trying to save my ever fraying sanity.

They are good Wolves I'm sure of it.

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>>49317488
its possible they'll keep it to just monsters
or not include him in the human hunts
>>49317276
>"I don't want to do this but if you don't leave in peace, then my friends here are going to insist you leave in pieces."
i love that you think werewolves just want people to leave

>>49317488
there's no penalty for mages for watching werewoofs hunt

>>49317582
>You cook a burger in a half a tablespoon of butter
I guess that's griddle cooked since that'd go nowhere on a grill. Can you even taste that on top of the meat juices and inherent fat?

>>49317589
I'm pretty sure that's what they will tell me. It doesn't have to be true, just convincing.

>>49317622
Yes it's considered a delicacy up here. Something we are very proud of.

>>49317601
It's like working for the discovery Channel, or National Geographic. At least that's what I'll be telling myself over and over, and over.

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>>49317638
the wolf must hunt
there's nothing good or evil about it
it's just nature
like a mage obssesing over magic

and there's lots to hunt
check it (ugh pic related)

if you have good dm, he won't be pointing the werewoves at your consilum

>>49317727
>he won't be pointing the werewoves at your consilum
Also as much as it sounds like Mage Wank, that might be a death sentence.

>>49317727
Worse...the ST is my little sister. My sanity is going to be screwed isn't it. Because I'm pretty sure it will be an iron masters group.

>>49317778
banishers/nephandi/seers are humans too

>>49317754
It is pretty MAD. Werewolves aren't just all brawn, give them the time and the reason to mess with some mages, and they can answer in kind.

>>49317582
>A wonderful food from up here in Wisconsin. You cook a burger in a half a tablespoon of butter, the use the other half to butter the bun. Google Culvers
I WANT THIS

>>49317754
I get the feeling of they did that the scene before would go something like this
Alpha Male"Okay we need to do an ancient and powerful Lunar right and we need some stuff."
Alpha Female "we are going to need, a scale from the lake monster of Lake Superior, the feather of an eagle, and the teeth from about 10 muskee"
Me: "okay, and I'm going alone?"
Sneeky dude: "Yes it's a part of our cultural heritage, oh and hand over your phone, no electronic devices or listening into or transmitting electronic messages. Oh and we need about 50 perch"
Alpha male" perch?"
Sneeky "for the Fish Fry when he gets back"

>>49317956
>Sneeky "for the Fish Fry when he gets back"
celebration and ritual is fun part of ww game
its not all mechanially magical
but it's still magical

>>49318054
So in other words I'm probably going to hit wisdom 2 if I'm lucky 3, but I'll enjoy the fall?

Is there any recent news on Deviant such as a release date?

>>49318116
i don't think so
there's nothing in wisdom about "seeingother people rip someone apart"

>>49318136
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

>>49318146
There isn't. But if you've contributed in any way to the situation arising, then you're liable.

>>49318136

Deviant will have a full Kickstarter at some point, but I don't think the first draft is even done yet.

>>49318174
not according to wisdom
there's no wisdom lawyer
and no one's going to sue a werewolf pack

>>49318181
Oh I thought it was much more complete than that.

>>49318200
I would certainly say there's something to be said for the Hubris in knocking someone unconscious, and bringing the back to your base so that someone else can tear out their throat so you don't have to feel bad about it.

>>49318252

Dave hasn't even firmed up all of the terminology yet, IIRC.

What I'm personally waiting on is the Dark Eras Companion, the extra Beast content, those damn Vampire supplements, and some previews for Hunter 2e.

>>49318256
yes because you're knocking someone out and dragging them back to be murdered
all things werewolves don't need help with
just participating on a hunt isn't a wisdom sin, even if it ends inbloody murder unless the mage commits the murder
which probably won't because werewoves

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>>49318136
>Release date

>>49318336
>just participating on a hunt isn't a wisdom sin, even if it ends inbloody murder
The situation would be more nuanced than that. The act of the Hunt itself isn't a Sin.
What constitutes the Hunt however IS.
If you, helping Werewolves, have directly contributed to the death of an individual, then that is Hubris.
Were a group of 5 plan to hunt down and murder someone, it's not just the guy who sticks in the knife that has sinned.

Were you not to know that your actions would result in Murder, then the Sin would be lesser.
However no, you cannot get out of breaches of Wisdom simply through never dealing the lethal blow yourself.

Your actions have still had effects. It is only when you do not see those effects that you lose Wisdom.

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>>49318424
>If you, helping Werewolves, have directly contributed to the death of an individual, then that is Hubris.
only at stupid high wisdom
says right there
"deliberate and premeditated murder"
you migh have problems if you're trying to be a saint
but that's stupid af to begin with

>>49318283

We're also still waiting for the final Mage PDF.

Dave also promised us a Mage FAQ and extra content about antagonists and legacies.

I'm aware that he's writing the latter material for free, but given his Deviant development and other CofD writing commitments, I fear we will not see the extra Mage stuff for a VERY long time.

I also very much hope Signs of Sorcery will be released before Christmas, although given the time needed for art, layout and Paradox approval, this isn't likely at all.

>>49318478
So simply because it doesn't say where it is, it's obviously higher?
So cruel rape, followed by a select erasure of those memories would be merely a breach of Enlightened? Because they do longer have the long-term injury required for a breach of Understanding?

>>49318424
That's ridiculous.

The entire Guardians of the Veil would be dropped to Wisdom 1 because they are part of an organization that routinely kills people.

>>49318525
Which is why they have a Merit which permits them to do just that.

Read the damn book.

>>49318478

Killing Sleepers is not an Act of Hubris. It's a public service.

-Speaker unknown. Overheard at Mysterium caucus meeting, London, England.

>>49318283
Scion Kickstarter this week

>>49318523
>So simply because it doesn't say where it is, it's obviously higher?
it does say
"when innocent bystanders are affected by your characters spells or actions, shse is at risk as well"
>So cruel rape, followed by a select erasure of those memories would be merely a breach of Enlightened?
oh your one of them color me surprised
forcing a sapient being/altering its nature long turn/violence that leaves its victim with long term injury

have you even read the book? its section righ there and you still insist on beingit wrong

>>49318562
Daksha pls go and stay go

>>49318578
There's no change in nature, and no long term injury.
They have forgotten one night they would rather not remember.

>>49318556
>Which is why they have a Merit which permits them to do just that.
>Read the damn book.
you read the book

to get away with that would require every member of the order to have the merit at 4 dots and constantly be using it (which costs wp to do)

its not a get out of jail free card its an active ability

>>49318596
just because you have a tiny dick doesn't mean rape doesn't harm

>>49318605
Which is probably why they don't get the gang together every week to watch as they butcher someone who threatened the Veil.

If you're unaware of the actions of your organisation and/or you have nothing to do with them, then that can hardly be a breach of Wisdom.

However where you participate, that will be.

>>49318605
>>Which is why they have a Merit which permits them to do just that.
>>Read the damn book.
>you read the book
>to get away with that would require every member of the order to have the merit at 4 dots and constantly be using it (which costs wp to do)
>its not a get out of jail free card its an active ability

However "inuring" is a get out of jail free-ish card. Just choose your favorite killing spell and bypass Wisdom.

>>49318523
>>>49318478
>So simply because it doesn't say where it is, it's obviously higher?
>So cruel rape, followed by a select erasure of those memories would be merely a breach of Enlightened? Because they do longer have the long-term injury required for a breach of Understanding?

No, it would be a wisdom breach of "understanding" level because it is "Forcing a sapient being to act counter to its interest" and one could argue its also a "breach of "falling" level because its fall into "Only the darkest, most selfishly destructive acts risk degeneration at this point."

I see lots of autistic anons still thinking that wisdom has anything to do with being a good person which it doesnt. Its about why, how, when and where you use magic. I can use money to destroy people live and still be the highest morality motherfucker because i dont heat my tea with magic.

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>>49318576

>>49318478
>Mormon Orimos
>Mormon = Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
>Latter Day Saint...
>Saint

Damn I'm Screwed....I'm going to talk to the ST about how she views Wisdom, if she goes the route of it's about how you view your power and what counts as an abuse of power, or failing to use your power when it was appropriate. Then if I don't use magic to aid in the kill, but instead keep my Allies safe, kill radio signals in and out of the area that sort of thing then it might not be a breach of wisdom.

>>49319118
The Monday meeting notes

>>49319259

That's from last week and it still isn't up. I'm hoping for this week, but I'm doubtful.

>tfw no group to pester with queer Netjer scions

>>49319317
Well also I was told first/second week of the month when I asked the dev. Which should mean this week sometime, though with OPP I like to imagine a margin of error about twice as large as the quoted time frame.

>tfw no group to pester with queer Netjer scions

Are you sure you aren't in my game? Because that's where the most queer PC idea landed.

>>49319463

I mean, one of the best-known Egyptian myths involves homosexual sex of dubious consent, and another is all about a man without a penis, so it seems a fairly apt place for a lot of those characters.

I'll probably never get to play Scion, so can I live vicariously through you and hear about your group?

>>49319521
Well our first session really amounted to cat herding and dicking around while we got babby's first rolls in with storypath. Next time, since the party now has met, has a goal and is workong on it we'll be doing more Scion-y things.

I'll be around when the KS starts and someone makes a Scion thread for it to tell you more. I'm kind of in the middle of a game right now and rudely ignoring it. Sorry, going back to it

>>49319521
Not that guy, but if I can find the writeup I did, I'll post some choice tidbits about the one Scion game I played in that ran from Hero to God. It had a lot of memorable moments, like the orbitlaunched haunch of frozen lamb when we tried to talk to Hermes, the memorable meeting with Hera (that led to 'Hera spelled backwards is bitch' quote that has travelled around 3 other Scion games) and others.

>>49319732
Though our characters were as follows:


* Me, symphonic rock star Scion of Brigid who became the God of Lust and Music. Constantly in a kind of moodswingy warfare with ex-wife, Scion of Hermes, who occasionally tries to murder me in our Overworld but can't.
* Squishable Scion of Hermes who later became the Goddess of the Internet and TROLOLOL
* Super fast Scion of some unpronouncable Aztec god who eventually supplanted his father as God of Darkness
* Private Investigator Scion of Odin who eventually became a God of Mysteries
* Honorable amazon-esque warrior Scion of Hachiman who became a Goddess of Honor and Honorable Battle
* Goth druggie Scion of Kalfu who became a Goddess of Madness, Terror and Chaos

Eventually Odin Scion left party, replaced by Scion of Bastet (IIRC) who was essentially Scion Indiana Jones and became a God of Exploration. And founded a bunch of animal-headed people since we essentially cold-reset large swathes of the world.

>>49319786
>implying Tezcatlipoca is unpronounceable

But that sounds like a ton of fun! Though I have to feel like the Scion of Bast who creates a race of furries is the kind of thing I would've done when I was younger.

http://theonyxpath.com/enough-with-the-conventions-already-monday-meeting-notes/

>Next week I’ll tell you about a couple of fantastic changes to our company, and we should be looking at the Scion 2nd Kickstarter starting sometime next week, too.

What do you guys think of Genius: The Transgression?

>>49319919
>fantastic changes to our company

Firm publication dates???

>>49319955
Let's not get crazy

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>>49306640

>>49319955
What are you, high?

>>49319927
We don't, if we can.

>atamajakki literally starting threads about furries

here we fucking go

Session 3 of solo Promethean game.

The galateid and new witch ally take up shop in a motel 6 after narrowly avoiding a confrontation with the police (because upon getting into town, the galateid immediately shacked up with two artistic drug dealers).

Mage says his goodnights, the galateid tries to relax and forget the stress of nearly getting arrested, and suddenly there is a knock at the door. Who is it you might ask (poor galateid failed the danger sense roll), it is the Pandoran you woke up who didn't get enough pyros the first time you two met!

A fight breaks out, with the galateid barely able to hurt the crazy beast. Some grappling happens, a motel table gets cracked over the pandoran's head, but the day is saved when the mage (who was called on the motel phone mid-fight) comes to the rescue.

The pandoran gets dp'd, and escapes through the window. Galateid and mage bro flee the scene, heading to the mage's room instead. From there, the galateid decides the best way to fight the pandoran is to try to look back where it first came out of dormancy, see if it would return there.

The mage was like good idea, we can go together. Galateid was like 'uhm, maybe you can go. You're so much stronger than me.' *winky face*. (This earned a torment willpower for dejection. With the galateid pushing off it being incapable to hurt the pandoran onto someone else)

>>49322591
So the Galateid goes to research what is going on in town from a laptop. With a crazy success on an investigation into the location where the pandoran was first found, I realized that I hadn't elaborated in my notes on the bodies used to make the darn pandoran. So a story of dead children was made up on the spot, hoping to connect it to another story thread that will... have to come up in another session because the PC felt there was nothing else to gain.

Mage bro returned from battle, having lost, and being terrible cut up. An impromptu herbal healing session happened (lots of made up rolls to raise the drama of him coming in bleeding everywhere), and then finally mage bro was able to tell his full story of the fight. They ended up falling asleep next to each other on the bed as the mage passed out of exhaustion.

>>49322597
In the end, I feel like I missed chances to set up a good milestone, again. I passed out a minor milestone for fighting off the Pandoran for the first time (first time they just ran away). A beat was given for taking a lot of damage, and then the basic beat.

I still need to help the player figure out that they can get more beats if they use certain aspects of the system (like the purposeful failures, and aspirations), but at least they got an aspiration beat this time.

I also am worried they'll never really reach a point of a proper Role milestone making sense. I mean, the game rules say it should take about a week or a month IC to reach that point, but it still feels weird to be so many sessions in and not have them move on to another role.

But they have also backed away from everyone they have been a 'companion' to. Which, may be a lesson in itself, but so far doesn't feel poignant.

>>49322657
>But they have also backed away from everyone they have been a 'companion' to. Which, may be a lesson in itself, but so far doesn't feel poignant.
Being bad at a Role doesn't mean failing it. that said, those things might be considered Breaking Points in the Role.

Okay here is one last thing I'm holding out for peer Review. Ammon's Sword Suraphiel.
Any and all comments are appreciated.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bskhz4dD92xcSlcYWB5fySitcziJoVOR-nG6AHusPB8/edit?usp=sharing
Even negative comments like why did you choose to make this?

>>49324291
Glad to see that you went with Enchanted Item idea.
Only comment is that Superlative Luck relies on charges, and I'm not sure those recharge every Ritual iteration.

I'd just rely on Find the Balance with the +1 reach option, which is a nice simple 8-again.
The rote quality is pretty bullshit, and its use on every action with the sword seems a tad excessive.

Also, ditch the Enchantment Bonus for the Monkey's Paw spell instead. This makes the item a "tool of destiny" which seems much more thematic and provides essentially the same effect.

So a supremely balanced, unnoticeable sword of destiny.

>>49324291
The sword is nice, but as a ST I'd be rolling my eyes out of their sockets if you showed me this "Rote on every attack!" bullshit.

>>49324642
What would you recommend instead? Lower level fate spell maybe? Double 8's instead?

>>49324699
8-again, yeah (Double-8 is an Exalted mechanic and it would be really fuckin' good in Chronicles)

Or maybe something to boost your defense, or that allows you to spend a willpower/mana to ignore your opponent's defense, or that negates targeted attack penalties, etc...

>>49322657
I'm worried that our group is going to be a nightmare since all the players swapped typical niches around. The last time I didn't play Face, things got bad. Please be gentle, ST-kun.

>>49319955

Why must you bring this madness to this thread?

>>49324699
>>49324291
As other Anon said, the fate boon spells only work for a number of rolls equal to potency. So it doesn't really make sense to give them indefinite duration. Take one of the other suggestions that don't have limited charges instead.

So apparently the Beast RMC will be sent today to backers... what do you expect?

Huh, Wraith: the Oblivion got an audio drama. I wonder if that'll be released to the public soon. Kind of OK with Audio Dramas being a part of OPP's future.

>>49324291
>>49324402
>>49324699
>>49324642
Swords already get 9-again just from two handing them. 8-Again is, frankly, a boring choice. Rote quality is great and all, but also pretty boring, and I know that as an ST, I also would roll my eyes at that.

Monkey's Paw is also boring. Can't you people think of anything other than bigger dice pools?

Hell, even just giving it Telekinetic Strike as an Aimed spell would be more interesting.

>>49326319
>Audio dramas
What is this, Japan?

>>49324898
Someone else has to learn to be face sometimes. It'll be fine!

>>49325342
Shit like the rest of beast stuff.

>>49326324
>check suraphiel
>leads to seraphiel
>Protector of Metatron, Seraphiel holds the highest rank of the Seraphim with the following directly below him, Jehoel. In some texts,[which?] he is referred to as the Angel of Silence. Eponymously named as chief of the Seraphim, one of several for whom this office is claimed, Seraphiel is one of eight judge angels and a prince of the Merkabah.[1] In 3 Enoch, Seraphiel is described as an enormous, brilliant angel as tall as the seven heavens with a face like the face of angels and a body like the body of eagles. He is beautiful like lightning and the light of the morning star. As chief of the seraphim, he is committed to their care and teaches them songs to sing for the glorification of God. In magical lore, Seraphiel is one of the rulers of Tuesday and also the planet Mercury. He is invoked from the North.[1][2]

Angel of Silence, there, now you have a special ability for it.

Speaking of swords, every time I watch Man At Arms it makes me want to play a magic blacksmith.
https://youtu.be/Q598DP27tGA
I just want to be a Moros who brings out the TRUE POWER in a lump of steel. Maybe with a bit of Spirit, to better coax the SPIRIT OF THE WEAPON THAT IT WILL BECOME.

>>49326704
Perhaps Counterspell or Dispell, with the trigger being cutting the spell.

>>49328222
Even just a silence spell over the area would be useful. Keeps people from screaming for help, using certain yantras.

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>finally get a game with an ST besides the foreverDM I've been playing with for eight years
>ST mixes nwod and owod at random, God-Machine and Angels exist but Demons are Fallen-style. Forsaken werewolves fight the Wyrm and Black Spiral Dancers.
>did zero research on the setting. Everyone in Tokyo has a house and drives in big-ass cars and there's a huge preoccupation with high school sports.
>uses NPCs from the rulebooks, but completely ignores how they're described and what their role is
>have True Friend merit, NPC this is attached to turns out to be an Imbued Hunter all along and got close to me to better stalk her prey.
>other players are having fun and don't care.

I don't want to sperg out and ruin it for everyone else, but this is making me crazy. What should I do?

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>>49328606

>>49328606
Except for that last one where the ST goes all John Wick on you and turns your explicit merit into a flaw (and maybe the part where Tokyo is LA) that's not too much of a problem, even if it is dumb as hell.

If your leaving won't wreck the game, I'd suggest leaving, or at least letting them know you're not having as much fun.

>>49328606
>. Everyone in Tokyo has a house and drives in big-ass cars
Ugh. This could even fly in rural Japan where public transit is less good and people need transport for bulky work things but not fucking Tokyo.

How should I build my mage to be as tanky as possible?

I was thinking a mix of Life, Matter, and Forces/Death. Using Life spells to buff my physical durability/heal rapidly, Matter to enhance my mundane armor, and Forces to mitigate damage from attacks.

Tangentially related because it uses the setting, but anyone heard any info about the shakeups and drama happening with the Grand Masquerade & Mind's Eye Society?

>>49330354
Recently, at Grand Masquerade's White Wolf panel, there were some comments regarding organizational direction and the move to ban concepts within a club.
To clarify, these comments were not specifically directed at any particular club, but the potential analogy to our own direction to ban certain concepts was a concern for many of our members. There was considerable outcry against that statement as a result.
In light of this reaction, White Wolf has been magnanimous in stepping forward to not only address the potential miscommunication, but to also encourage that each member club should govern themselves by the parameters which best serves its constituents. They recognize that each body will have different ideals and limitations, and have expressly stated that they do not wish to interfere in how these governing bodies regulate their games, in as far as ensuring the safety and public trust of those who participate.

>>49330379
In the end, on all sides of the issue, we are all fans of one of the most creative gaming paradigms ever created. Our collective unity to ensuring that our members can explore that paradigm in safety and comfort is without question.
As for us and our unique designs on how to deliver that experience ...
... we are Mind's Eye Society, and that's exactly what White Wolf wants us to be.

>>49326704
I'll be honest I got the name from the Diablo Angel name generator, same with the other two.

Okay I think I like the zone of silence, control sound is even a lower dot spell.

>>49328606
Accept you're living in an alternate reality Tokyo. You can never change the GM's mind. Even if NewYorkCentralPark has to be three times the size to handle the bullshit he throws. You'll never change his mind about how the setting works. (Also anime was mistake)

On the True Friend it depends. If the prey is you or another person of the party, call him out on it. if the target is an NPC. meh getting the stabbing forks out, and hunt that fucker in the most fcked up horrible means possible. to really drive it home came fcked this was,

>>49330522
He said she was doing it to better get close to him, so it sounds like he was John Wick'd.

>>49330400
>that awful form letter

>>49330354
There was some shakeup about clubs and sexual assault or other assault within them. The MES got hit pretty hard just because of the sheer insanity of that organization.

>>49330522
Yeah. I ran a game in Seattle, and had werewolves centered on Denny Park. Despite being born and raised in Seattle, I'd never been to Denny Park.

Calling it a park is an overstatement. It is more a triangle of land between streets that bums sleep in.

>>49331474
Bum wolves.

>>49331474

Lol. Seattle native here, the strips of grass on the shoulders of I-5 are more of a park than denny is. Denny is pretty much a glorified lawn with a shanty town on it.

>>49330635
Fucking Uikku-san

SCION KICKSTARTED WHEN?

>>49330635
>>49328691
Whos john wick?

>>49332540
http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/alien-rope-burn/john-wicks-play-dirty/

Game Designer who is basically the embodiment of a shitty GM.
He's also behind Legend of the 5 Rings and 7th Sea.

>Then we get a digression about how Wick can't get a non-gaming job, despite his game writing experience and winning awards, but since he doesn't own that work, he can't make money off of it. And so he quit AEG to make his own way... which he'd eventually find. I remember hearing people ask AEG employees when they'd get Wick back a long time ago. They'd laugh, maybe a bit nervously. Some bridge was burned. You see it in one of the last Bayushi Kachiko cards, the one that has "Uikku suku diku" written in kanji on the doorframe. There's the credits page for the Legend of the Five Rings RPG which credits a lot of last-minute work by a notable team of writers reworking Wick's manuscript. There's the Five Rings adventure I had playtested for Greg Stolze which saw Wick (and Ree Soesbee) rewriting the whole adventure without Stolze's input. There's the vitriol Wick has hissed about Ryan Dancey in other columns. Maybe Wick just quit to pursue other creative endeavors. Or maybe- just maybe- he might have had difficulty getting on with folks. He was an angry guy at the time, as far as I can tell. I remember him complaining to me with things they wouldn't let him do in the CCG story... while he was still writing for it. Which was fantastic to hear as a fan, but for an employer to hear, it'd be much more damning.

>>49332540

The kind of GM who thinks "Your character is immune to diseases? He catches a disease anyway, but he's immune to the cure because vaccines are diseases." is clever. I don't give a shit about him being a "killer GM," but that he thought it was CLEVER is retarded.

The kind of game designer who thinks swashbucklers who do 4 bad things will immediately turn into villainous NPCs.

>>49332485
next week tuesday or thursday

>>49332540
A kick Ass action movie. Watch it.

Is imperial mysteries still good for giving stats to spirits with rank 6+

>>49332686
That John Wick is also in Payday 2.

>>49329770
I'd add fate for coincidental tankiness as well, but you're on point so far.

>>49332676
wait shit for real?

>>49332859
yes
http://theonyxpath.com/enough-with-the-conventions-already-monday-meeting-notes/
We’re looking at our KS campaign for Scion 2nd Edition going live next Tuesday or Thursday. We had a run of delays, but those have been worked out now. I think. More news when we have it!

>>49298009
>Have you ever used or seen somebody try to use Changing Breeds?

Do we not have the oWoD breedbooks in the mega download drive? I was just looking around and couldn't find Mokole, Nagah, Bastet, Gurahl, Anansi, etc there.

I'm surprised because those books have been around forever.

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Whats the weirdest personalized weapon a character of yours has used?

>>49334147
Dude liked summoning handheld drills and excavating monsters chests with them.
Normally the damage would have been piss poor, but you'd be surprised how efficient platonic form weapons can get.

>>49334147

A bear, had a vampire with spiritus who would summon a bear from thin air to kill people. Many many puns about right to bear arms ensued

The Pantheons available at the start of Scion 2e will be Greek, Egyptian, Yoruba, Irish, Norse, Hindu, Japanese, Chinese, Aztec, and Algonquin, right? Do we know if there are going to be any more, or if they're going to put some in as stretch goals, or something?

>>49334147
Had a werewolf capture a Stryx using Fire Element manipulation then melt the bastard down into a knife

>>49334960

Persian and dead Gaulish are the currently planned stretch goals for this Kickstarter, along with a Vodoun add-on for the Yoruba.

Fron Neal:

>Demigod's current slate is the Mespotamian, Mayan, Polynesian, Slavic, and Navajo pantheons. I'd really like to do the Welsh pantheon in a larger Demigod-era book of Arthurian myth. I'm also considering Lakota, Caananite, and Guarani for other supplements.

>>49335017

I know very little about Scion. Does the game deal at all with monotheism or characters empowered by more traditional religions?

>>49335117

Historically it's never really broached the subject, except for--iirc--one book that implies the Abrahamic faith is a Titan plot, I think.

>>49335117
They did Zoroastrianism in 1e, but other than that no. It's too culturally prevalent in the West to do without controversy. On the other hand they did Hinduism and Shinto despite those both being active faiths.

On the other hand it has a 'monotheistic faith' Titan in Atum, which is implied to be the start of all monotheism.

>>49335117

It's an iffy subject. Christianity exists - the setting is still basically our world - but the game has steered clear of doing Abrahamic characters, and 1e pinned the evils of monotheism on Aten's shoulders. I didn't play 1e and I think that's dumb as hell, so I hope things go a different direction with 2e. I do think Neal has mentioned wanting to do a Canaanite Pantheon, which may be as close as we ever get to Scions of YVHV.

>>49335017
Any idea if they'll add additional pantheons if the game gets all the stretch goals, like they did with Exalted, and Beast, and really most of their products that get overfunded?

>>49335186

I think the important thing to remember is that Demigod and God will both have five new Pantheons each plus whatever they add for stretch goals in their Kickstarter(s). Personally, I think anything past the three mentioned above will primarily be alternate setting Shards; I know Neal wants to do one that's post-apocalyptic, and others have been mentioned as well.

An Inuit Pantheon has been frequently discussed, and both Australian Aboriginal and Filipino Pantheons have been mentioned specifically for God.

>>49335300
The first kickstarter will be both Origins and Hero, right?

One more week and scion will have its own threads!

Not to hate on you guys. I'll probably visit, I almost did two scion games. All your hype is off putting though.

>>49335554

It's not like anything CofD has come out super recently beyond Promethean, and I'd sooner the thread be quiet than devolve into shitposting about pronouns again. But I'll gladly be in the Scion general if it can stay alive, which I doubt and still happily be here to hope for Vampire and Mummy content.

And I actually have high hopes for the Beast supplements.

>>49335586
>Mummy content.

Keep hope alive...

>>49335608

Two chapters in the Dark Eras Companion (and chapters with content we've wanted for ages), one more city book, and some meat in the Crossover Chronicle, plus whatever can be scavenged out of Thousand Years Of Night when that comes out. It'll be a lean two years or so, but it's sure as shit more than Geist fans have had to work with.

Hunter and Scion will take up plenty of that time, to say nothing of non-OPP games; I'm waiting for a gravy train of Delta Green, Unknown Armies, and Red Markets content.

Will the Kickstarter have the full book (minus stretch goals) available (like Beast), even if only to backers, or will we have to wait?

>>49335586
>And I actually have high hopes for the Beast supplements.

As long as they give them more things to do and clear up some of the rules then yeah, beast can get better.

I want to go horror hunting. Also more monster in the chambers.

>>49335719

I think parts of it will be there, but not necessarily the whole book. Could be wrong though.

>>49335744

There's a good game hiding somewhere in Beast, and a combination of meatier bad guys and less vagueness in the writing will do wonders for it.

Persona 5 is shaping up to be a very Beast vidya.

>>49335706

I have an unsettled feeling that the Sekhem sorcerers we've been promised in the Dark Eras Companion will be less than stellar.

Given practical space limitations, they'll likely be provided little more than the space of skin changers in Dark Eras.

>>49335859

They're in the setting that got bonus wordcount after the backer snafu, and I've heard nothing but good things from both the backer and the writer. It should be ace.

And don't forget that we might be getting a Second Sight update in the Companion, too!

>>49335911

When is the companion supposed to be released? Hasn't it been in layout and art for many months, and still hasn't been approved by Paradox?

>>49336036

Dark Eras takes an especially long time to get together because it has a ton of writers and all of the developers involved, and that's before the delay necessary to add extra wordcount to one of the settings and possibly stuff the Beast one in there as well. Give it time.

>>49335586

>And I actually have high hopes for the Beast supplements.

After the core, I honestly don't see how you can. Beast strikes me as the CofD version of Changeling the Dreaming: a game with some neat ideas that will never, ever be good because of its heavily flawed core. It'll probably develop a super obsessive fanbase, though. Maybe even more so if they stuck to the first draft.

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Are Spirits really so much more important than ghosts, goeta and Supernal Beings that the Arcana that deals with them doesn't need to do anything else?

>>49336348

The main flaw of Beast is that it lacks direction. If supplements can give the Begotten more things to chase and threats more interesting than Heroes to fight, it'll be a perfectly fine game.

I think a game about a brood of Nemeses who obsess over dispensing justice to the wicked could be a lot of fun, especially if you delved into how that can go disastrously wrong.

>>49336391
Spirits have an incredibly wide scope, meaning that you can do almost anything through either summoning and coercing existing Spirits, or calling upon the dormant Spirits that exist in almost everything.

>>49336406
Wouldn't that all depend on if your brood of Nemesi lived in Chicago, LA, or Texas?

Just saying if they are in Chicago they probably all have CPD badges, while in Texas it probably reads "Ranger". Because seriously if your a brood of Nemisi and your not carrying badges your probably not thinking far enough ahead. Oh and LA, you probably answer to the title of prosecutor or Judge. Because even the Beasts won't admit to being LA PD.

Unless of course your prefer the acronym FBI, DOJ, or DOD.

>>49336391
The world of spirits can have devastating effects on the material. The others occasionally come and visit the material. Spirits are more important.

So Death Arcanum covers "absences". I think this is pretty broad.

What are examples of "Absences"

I can only think of Silence and Darkness

>>49338049
Absence of calories causes hunger

Absence of wall creates space

Absence of hair creates bald

Can you stop time with Death by saying, Absence of Time is Stasis

>>49338090
With Making, sure

>>49338049
>>49338057
>>49338090
>>49338117
This all sounds dumb. Why do I feel like you are both being dumb?

>>49338165
Because you're a Mastigos with no imagination

>>49338165
you lack imagination for mage. Death is a Meta Arcanum. If you remove Entropic forces on an object it can become indestructible

>>49338090
No. It's the concept of absence.
One toy stay applying that concept wider, you move out of the realm of the Arcanum.

>>49338227
are you stupid many Arcanum intersect in function, that's intentional

>>49336519
Nemesis prosecutors? Yes please. Miles Edgeworth with the soul of Anubis.

>>49336519
I don't think "dispense justice" means legal justice.

>>49338242
Rewinding time on someone's body doesn't bring them back to life, attempting to apply the concept of entropy to time is ludicrous.

>>49339016
True, you could take the much harder vigilante road but honestly which do you think will feed you better? Being a police man and dispensing justice every day for a living (meaning they are paying you to feed, and you can nibble on all kinds of food all day) or being joe you smacks around the occasional mugger or purse snatcher when he finds one.

>>49340056
Second one is more interesting. I mean, it's how Batman feeds HIS psychological addiction to causing fear.

>>49339755
You realize you can metaphoticaly destroy anything at Death 5 right? It literally lets you have mystic eyes of Death Perception. Ypu are apply the concept of Death and Endings.