Have you ever encountered a mary sue?

a co-GM killed one of my characters with one

>>49217770
So what did they alternate after every session or were they both GMing at the same time?

>>49217748
>Ran screaming from a lightsaber
>Mary-sue
I will never understand that. Hell, that was so pant-on-head-retarded that anybody who praises Rey (or just repeats the Mary Sue meme) shouldn't be able to make any more wisecracks about power converters.

>>49217790
One main GM, the co-GM was someone who helped play the NPCs and add additional voices, but ultimately everything they did was GM-approved

I've seen plenty of both mary sues and godmoders in freeforms, but never outside of them.

>>49217908
What were the players playing them like?

>>49217964
>>49217970
Baitmind

>>49217748
Every time I look back at my early writing, I see them.

It's like seeing dead bodies, but even more gruesome.

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>>49217805
>>49217964
>>49217970

>Star Whore fans are this easily triggered

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>>49218002

>>49217937
You know, I've always had the opinion that you HAVE to have some form of autism to play RPGs, because normal people have social lives and don't pretend to be magic elves.
Well, if regular DnD player has some sort of mild aspergers, it's ten thousand times worse on freeforms. The most convenient example was a girl by the name of Sarah - she was a cosplayer somewhere in her twenties, with huge boobs, red hair and all. Her character was somewhere in her twenties, with gigantic boobs and knee-long red hair.
She had nuclear yellow eyes - except when she was blind (anime blind, not real blind), she had control over fire and could will it to appear anywhere at will, she could transform into animals and dragons, she had telepathy that somehow powered through the abilities designed specifically as telepathy immunities, she could SUMMON dragons, she could teleport from anywhere to anywhere at will, she had metal war fangs, two hunded kilograms both, so she also must have had a super strength... Why I say "must have"? Because none of her abilities were strictly defined. As an admin, she could do whatever she wanted, and it was one of the reasons a schism occured by the end.
However, let's not stop at her powers. What was her character like? Well, she usually had two personalties. Sarah and the evil one - sometimes it was called Elsheva, sometimes it was called the Dark SIster, she had multiple evil personalities, and as an old one died, a new one emerged. Her modus operandi was to horribly mutilate someone as her Evil personality, then switch to the good one, cry and heal them. Yes, she was a supreme healer too. She also liked to get into fights for no reason as both of her personalities, and even the supposedly "good" one was a supreme cunt.

>>49217748
Oh, so we're doing this thread again? Fine. We built a Sue that ruined 40k in the most awesomely retarded of ways, and we've made a universe where Sues are the foundation of the most grimdark setting ever. Shall we plunge down this rabbit hole further? Let's make a Sue Plainswalker that fucks up the MTG continuum this time.

>>49218063
She wasn't the only one - just the best example. That freeform (and others) was filled with twenty somethings acting like complete children. Like, there was this one guy, who had two different abilities that both instantly and unavoidably killed you - one was lightning that instantly "incinerated your nervous system", while the other was a gust of wind that rapidly aged you until you turned to dust. There was another guy, who got around having limits on his abilities (and their number) by having, like, five hundred puppets or something, each as powerful as a player, each with a unique skillset. There was also a guy with a body filled with nanobots that made him super strong, regenerated any wound instantly and did other shit, oh my god.
The good part, however, is that all overpowered shits and exalted sperglords mainly held the admin or moderator position, and they USUALLY kept to themselves and fought against other horribly OP shits, leaving the (relatively, really relatively) good players alone. Usually being the keyword.
Cause my character's definitive power wasn't self-resurrection for no reason, at certain point I've decided that I've had enough of being killed and brought back to life by other people, time to do at least one half of it myself.
And then I decided to try DnD.

>>49218088
I want to plunge down that hole

>>49218110
Did DnD serve you any better?

>>49217748
If you are saying Rey is a Mary Sue, then perhaps you should actually learn what that term means.

>>49218138
Yes. I'm still surrounded by spergs, but at least it's the same level of autism as me.

>>49217748
I made one, once, when I rolled a human character whose lowest stat was a 14 after adjustments.
He was, of course, kicked around enough by the setting so that it eventually didn't matter.
Now, he's basically Strahd: the sort of character that sounds badass until you realize that he's just a dude with personal issues souped up with just enough power that his dark superiors find him useful.

>>49218125
Ok, what Race(s) is our Planeswalker? We're going to need at least three, one of them being human, also suggest features, glowing eye color and hair a must.

>>49217748
What could Rey do that Luke couldn't?

>>49218206
Flawlessly use the Force, defeat her archnemesis in single combat in the first movie.

>>49218206
Obtain the resources she needed to learn to fly a ship?
At least Luke had adoptive parents.

>>49218206
use a blaster

>>49218139
Suer thig, breddy gud, naies reiply.

Lets just call her "unexpected gifted at everything important she attempts, with failures that are comical instead of crippling", eh?

>>49218206
Get laid.

>>49218193
One should be a Golden Golem that's just better than Karn and is immune to Phyrexian oil.

>>49218206
Keep both hands.

>>49218206
Learn how to be proficient in the force in like 48 hours maybe less.

>>49217748
You're like, 9 months late to the party dumbfuck.

Is Rey a Mary Sue? No.

Is Rey an Interesting Character who is worthy of continuing the Star Wars legacy? Also No.

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>>49218300
...Okay, you got me.
We don't know for sure yet, though.

>>49217748

Every game of dark heresy where one person picks grey knight. I don't mind playing supporting character though.

>>49217748
Look, you can't just default to Mary Sue when you want to describe a character who is too competent or lacks any dramatic tension. She's just a bad character, not a Sue.

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>>49218274
Half-Golem, Half Human? Sounds stupid already, I love it. Honestly, we need a couple more though, a Mary Sue needs at least three halves in order to qualify for Full-Retarded Sueness.

>>49218385
Add in half Lorwynn Elf for the extra beauty and grace.

>>49218206
The problem with Rey was that Abrams was way too impatient with her development.

See, you look at Luke's development. In the first movie, he's only really good at flying around and shooting things. He had to go through a phase of being a shitty jedi before he was any good, and he had to go through not only Obi Wan's brief training, but also two movies worth of Yoda training. He had to get his ass kicked by Darth Vader and realize what the desire for power through the force could do to his character.

This makes it so that when he finally kicks Darth Vader's ass at the end of Return of the Jedi, it actually means something. Even then, the Emperor just fucks Luke in the ass with lightning anyways; he comes so far but still is far from invincible.

Rey never gets her ass kicked, to sum things up. She starts off with an appropriate amount of skill; some people would say that jetbiking is an entirely different animal from flying a ship, but it's easy to overlook. She flies things. Whatever, we don't know everything she flew, maybe she flew some not-T16 Skyhopper on the planet of Not-Tatooine.

What she sure as mother fuck did not do was train under a jedi master in the use of the force for all that time. Luke in the second movie is struggling to lift fucking rocks, let alone flawlessly mind trick people.

The most telling part is that she actually beats a Sith, after having known about the force, not even being taught in its use just knowing it exists, for, what, a couple of days?

Now I know why she could do it. Emo man got shot with a bowcaster, nicked with lightsabers, and was generally in shit condition, but Rey should not have been even a semblance of a threat, let alone actually beating him. Kylo Ren is basically reduced to being a retarded bitch at the end, and really the question becomes how the fuck he was let out of his room. The question is if Ren is actually a threat AT ALL, or if Rey is space Jesus who cannot lose.

>>49217748
Remind me what her flaws are?

If these flaws don't serve to hinder but end up helping her, never get reacted to believably (ie. a bitchy character who never gets called on it or disliked for it.), or cause her a moment of hesitation it's not a flaw and will be ignored.

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>>49218002

>>49218476
>>49217970
>>49217964
Why can no one agree on the type of bait?

>>49218385
>cat girl
>interesting
>well-thought out

>>49218385
>Hair: Green
Stopping RIGHT there.

>>49218518
>Normal human
>Literally nothing neat about xim/xir
How can you even have a good character if their is nothing special about them

>>49218385
The one on the left isn't a sue, but she's pathetically boring, and that's just as bad. That picture always annoys me.

>>49218657
She's a boring sue. An antisue. Made to be uninteresting for fear of creating a sue. It's an awful part of the cycle, but people have to go through it when they're learning.

>>49218680
Ah, I knew there was a term for it, thank you.

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>>49218680
>>49218657
>>49218550
>>49218534
>>49218518
>>49218385

>>49218550
By playing them like an actual person and not some kind of caricature?

>>49218726
Where is the fun in being normal?

>>49218750
In being a perfectly normal serial killer

Or your average, everyday slayer of the paranormal

Yeah was a DMPC named "Seer" with red hair and completely black eyes. He was super min maxed and had cheesy spells that allowed him to nullify fights or do the big damage. He was slated to be the star of the show, although I will say he took a backseat a lot early on. However he got the killing blow on a white dragon and "randomly rolled" for his weapon to become legendary. After that there was almost no point in playing since we kept doing more and more combat that he would plow through.

This was my first DM and if I never experienced him I might not believe any "that guy/dm" threads.

My first ttrpg character was ridiculously mary sue and fucking edgy.

At the time I was suffering from a pretty bad case of being 17, and high functioning autism.

The first game I ran also was a bit stronk NPC heavy even if I let the players make plenty of headway.

Ugh.

Why did I ever make mistakes in past. I remember every fuckup in perfect clarity. Even shit from when I was a toddler.

>>49218847
Have you called them up to say you are sorry?

>>49217748
Yes. The cunt considered himself the final arbiter of what is overpowered and what is not and placed himself at the apex.
Anybody considered weaker was getting laughed at and threatened by pvp.
Anybody who managed to argue themselves stronger to rein in the threats got bitched about to the GM that they're too OP and should not be allowed.

And of course there was moral absolutism, of course - everything they did they considered good, no matter how murderhoboery; and when somebody else planned to do things in the same vein they ate a ton of "reeee what you're doing is evil I'll kick your ass for it!!!"

Eventually brought the game into the grave. The GM for some ineffable reason kept GMing more games for the shithead and his gang of buddies, with all of them getting drowned in same bullshit.

>>49218864
Lost contact.

>>49218960
Have you tried the yellowbooks

>>49218206
get BLACKED

I may have played one once.
But that was mpre a "when you only have a hammer" situation.
And everyone seemed ok with my "everything is a nail about to be punchsploded".
He was reasonably balanced, but i was able to work around most of his weakspots 9/10 times.
Does that count?

>>49218987
Overseas and only knew first names. One is a little closer and I did apologies.

No idea about the others, they could be dead for all I know with the lives some of them lead.

>>49218300
savage

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>>49218110
>There was also a guy with a body filled with nanobots that made him super strong, regenerated any wound instantly and did other shit, oh my god.

You guys ever had to fight a NPC Mary Sue who kept popping up in your campaign?

>>49218458
>The most telling part is that she actually beats a Sith
Did we watch the same movie? Ren's a Sith fanboy. He's not even a Dark Jedi, because he has no control over his emotions and has piss-poor lightsaber skills. He's strong in the Force but that's about it. Snoke himself says he's not fully trained, probably on purpose.

And yeah. He got fucking shot and took a shallow slice from a lightsaber before even fighting Rey.

My only problem with Rey is that she shouldn't know how to fly a ship as quickly as she does.
If there was a line about how the controls are similar to her speeder I'd handwave it but that didn't happen.

>>49220678
God this is literally the worst cop-out for crummy DMs

>Oh shit they're kicking this guy's ass too hard
>Better make up some bullshit so he survives
>I know I'll make it a part of his character so that they can never kill him
>Then I'll have him be a recurring villain
>Brilliant

Or even better
>This is my super special DMPC guys
>He's so amazing look he'll kill these things no sweat
>OH MY GOD HE BETRAYED YOU ISN'T THAT SOMETHING
>What do you mean you don't care
>Stop kicking his ass!
>Ugh he does this thing and you all get knocked out
>He'll be back though!

>>49220875
The first thing can be good, though. Like Harbringer in ME2, who could never really be killed (but was a persistent and constant enemy), because he didn't actually fight you physically, he just could possess any of his soldiers.

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>>49217748

I'm sure every new player has started with one.

>>49220848
>My only problem with Rey is that she shouldn't know how to fly a ship as quickly as she does.

Or you know. Mindcontrol people on first fucking try.

I really hope it turns out that the guy they left to guard her was a double agent.

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>>49218385

>>49220904
>The first thing can be good, though.

The kind of DMs who make those kind of characters generally don't do so because they want to make the character interesting, challenging or multifaceted, but because they have this story laid out in their heads that is so fragile that they cannot afford to lose the NPC, and will do anything to prevent it.

So, what do they do? He was the chosen one all along! He's a half-[powerful creature/deity/being]! Etc, etc., and it leads to this overwhelming feeling of removal of the players' agency.

Even if he's not a villain, being an ally to the party is just as bad because then you remove any sort of power they feel - they'll never be as good as the DMPC, so why do they even bother? The only case I've seen this work is when the DMPC is all-powerful but is so retarded he doesn't realize it

>>49220848
Someone with training > someone with no training
Every time. Not doing so results in the latter qualifying for mary sue status.

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>>49221054
>Sex is so convoluted it takes a couple sentences to explain

>>49220943
>Or you know. Mindcontrol people on first fucking try.

To be fair she is a skywalker with Jedi training...

>>49218550
Man, I haven't seen that old pasta in years. Do you have the post from some ancient forum decrying bugs bunny as a character because he doesn't have any powers?

>>49221089
The first sentence explains it pretty well though.

>>49221084
Having your guts about to fall out is probably a pretty huge problem when you're trying to fight, though, and didn't the movie leave you with the impression that Rey had done some force stuff as a young kid, when her parents were still around?

>>49221084

Not the guy you're responding to, but it takes Ren about a minute of dueling to beat down a guy who not only has no training, but isn't even force sensitive in the slightest.

He's a loser, and just isn't that tough, for one reason or another. How many rebel soldiers do you think someone like vader could blow through in 5 seconds, even if you gave them lightsabers?

>>49221195
This is the real problem though; people comparing Ren to Darth Vader who was trained to be a Jedi since he was around 7-12 and he's been forged in the clone wars and taught by both Yoda, Obi-wan, and Darth Sidious. He's even the chosen one for fuck sake.

Point is, yes, Ren had little training - but a lot more than his opponent whilst still being wounded.

>>49221222

And my point is, Ren is a wimp, even with his training. He takes a full minute, and takes a slight wound in the process, beating a stormtrooper with a lighstaber.

Stormtroopers are mooks damn it. Ren's performance is roughly on par with that guy with the force baton thingy earlier in the movie. That's just not a particularly impressive on the scale of bad-guy-ness, so Rey beating him isn't that much of a stretch.

>>49218311
Are you forgetting how he gets one lesson in blocking while blind, and then in the space of less than 48 hours turns that into flying an X-Wing using the force?

>>49221101
So?

We have never seen any of the Skywalkers mindcontrol anyone. Not even Darth Vader did that, and he full on went through both being trained a Jedi and a Sith.

Unless Luke's classes for toddlers begin at "how to mind control your parents to let you stay up late", that shit is just not feasible.

>>49221247
>Stormtroopers are mooks damn it

>"Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise."

I think that one of the only things the new movie did well was to rehabilitate stormtroopers into notpussies.

Ren is a whiny emo pussy.

Aside, Finn was the worst fucking character since JarJar Binks. He should have been combined with the pilot character and played just by the white guy. The writers' insistence on giving him stupid, Americanized black patois dialogue was immersion-breaking stupidity, but they just couldn't help themselves.

>>49221247
You do realize that him having a hard time with traitor bitch was probably just because the writers put themselves in a corner and decided "let's make him badass so people will like him!"

It was a poorly written fan-fic with shitty "deep" characters with shitty "mysterious" backstory.

>>49221163
It's obvious to anyone with a pair of brain cells to rub together that Kylo getting shot in the side by the gun that's been hyped for the whole movie was setting him up to be beaten by the heroes who normally wouldn't stand a chance. So you're arguing with someone with at most one sad little neuron firing somewhere in that cavernous skull of theirs. Is it really worth it?

>>49221268
>We have never seen any of the Skywalkers mindcontrol anyone.

It's in the second god damned scene of Return of the Jedi. It's how Luke gets an audience with Jabba.

>>49221268
Return of the Jedi. Luke mind controls Jabba's second in command, and tries to control Jabba.

>>49217748
Kaldor Dragio

>>49217748

Once, when I was young and stupid, I was in a RP forum. And I had a character who kind of got turned into a Gary Stu because I got caught up in the wrong sort of clique politics, and he gradually got stronger and all of his weaknesses were ground away one by one, and never of his own "legitimate" doing, most of them just kind of vanished.

>>49218320
Thread's about mary sues, not shit gms.

>>49220943
Seeing as the Stormtrooper was James Bond in disguise, I dare say it was less Jedi mind-trick and more inside-job

>>49218476

>baited while claiming it's bait.

Pretty much sums up the stupidity of star wars fans.

>>49221263
At least he got training, and he was being guided by the spirit of his dead mentor.

>>49221268
>We have never seen any of the Skywalkers mindcontrol anyone

Luke got into Jabba's Palace with that...

>>49221621
She got training too. Kyle may not have meant it that way, but hands-on (or in this case brain-on) training is the best kind.

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>>49221428
>MFW I've seen more mary sues in gmod freeform rp.
>MFW Most of them were men roleplaying edgy little girls.
>MFW I had to help moderate a server with 3 of these.
>They even got raped a bunch.
>I almost managed to kill them as the servers "monsters" but the head admin always saved them.
So much potential for gmod serious rp. Wasted by such latent debauchery.

>>49218458
I think the little "mind duel" they had was less about skill and more about willpower. Considering they actually showed us Crylo having a bitchfit in an earlier scene, I can believe that she's got more willpower than him.

>>49221084
At the beginning of the movie they show she's pretty good at H2H combat, so it's not like she's a complete amateur.
Also, at the beginning of the fight she wasn't doing any better than Finn was. It wasn't till she "used the force" that she started winning.

>>49220848
>My only problem with Rey is that she shouldn't know how to fly a ship as quickly as she does.
I don't get why people think she's never flown a ship before. That's never stated or really implied before.

She's a scavenger and mechanic. She mentions that she knows the changes that were made the falcon, so it's pretty easy to figure out that she had a hand in getting the supplies and making the modifications to it.
She's probably test flown it a few times so that the boss could see if it was working like he wanted.

>>49221325
lets not forget, that they twice remind you that Kylo had been shot during that fight.
But people still forget.
Did they need a third time, are they fucking Peter from the bible who needs to be told every last thing 3 times.

>>49221802
I took all this less as Kylo being weak, and more him being conflicted and kept intentially emotionally unstable.

If he was thinking clearly, why would he stay with the Dark Lord and want to hurt his family, who he still clearly loves. The Dark Lord wanted him angry, because embracing your anger is part of the Dark Side, and wanted him irrational and unstable.
He wanted Kylo barely in control of himself, so he needed to rely on others to give him guidance.

>>49218139
How is she NOT a mary sue? A mary sue is a character that completely warps the setting around them, ignoring many of the settings boundaries and overcoming many of their "flaws" almost immediately or having them work out to be secret bonuses.

>She is magically gifted at almost everything she touches
>Knows Wookie without interacting with them
>Comes from a desert planet in complete poverty yet is insanely athletic and the pinnacle of fitness.
>Every character she interacts with comes to like and appreciate her
> She can fly an old millennium falcon despite never flying a starship before.
> She can out mind fuck someone with years more training
> Her only "struggle" was crying about a lightsaber and then immediately overcomes it thanks to BB-buddy
> Almost magically defeats a lightsaber user with no training, with a weapons she would have no skill with
>Is given the keys to the millennium falcon and get the Wookie with her... BECAUSE?
>Is sent alone to find the most important character the rebellion has been looking for, no one else, even though Leia has only JUST met her BECAUSE?

Granted, she is going to be revealed as a skywalker, and ALL of them are major mary sues in their own stories but anyone thinking she ISNT a Sue... oh man... Anyone describing her as their "OC character do not steal" in the Star Wars general would be laughed off, but one Disney stamps on it she is above reproach, kek worthy at best.

>>49221665
That's stupid as shit... He wasn't training her, he was trying to dig into her mind, her turning that into "training for her" is Sue as fuck.

>>49221959
She is the poorest character in her society, forced to live out in the desert and barely gets enough to eat, she drives a speeder.

Even if she test flew it she would never have been able to perform the crazy shit it does in the movie, unless she was a skywalker, and they are sue tier.

>>49222047
>That's stupid as shit... He wasn't training her, he was trying to dig into her mind, her turning that into "training for her" is Sue as fuck.
He was trying to dig into her mind. She's a force sensitive. She felt how he was digging into her mind, and copied it. Not even that well, given she had to try three times to control a stormtrooper when everyone else in the series auto-succeeds unless they're trying it on someone resistant.

>>49217748
Once ran with a guy who thought being a wizard with a lot of lore = infinite knowledge of everything.

Fortunately our GM had no patience for that tripe

>>49222096
Everyone else in the series that tried it has been trained. Not even close to the same thing.

>>49222122
My point. She picks up the basics, and is clumsy. The trained people do it easily.

>>49222096
But the result is still the same.
If a character tries something twice and fails without any consequences, then tries it once again and succeeds to an unrealistically good degree without the previous failures ever coming up again, the net effect is the same as if they succeeded from the beginning.
The informed flaw is a typical tool of the Mary Sue. If she failed once and got fucked sideways for it so hard she felt the consequences for at least half an hour in movie time, that would be one thing - but it's just too easy to add in one or two scenes where the character "fails" without actually making things worse at all.

>>49222047
>She is the poorest character in her society, forced to live out in the desert and barely gets enough to eat, she drives a speeder.

literally LUKE

>unless she was a skywalker, and they are sue tier.
of for fuck's sake, it's a heroic story, the heroes are capable.
This is what happens in ever damn heroic story ever.
Bilbo manages to be a pretty good thief out of no where, and learns to fight with a sword he just stumbles across well enough to not die.
Tony Stark figures out how to pilot an incredibly complex suit in a matter of days, while designing it.
Locke Lamora is gifted thief as a fucking child.
Ciaphas Cain is one of the best swordsmen in the Imperium despite being a coward.
John Wick kills a dozen armed and trained killers single handedly.

Being capable and competent does not make one a Mary Sue. Every thing Rey does outside of the force is stuff she is established as having had a chance to learn. She's just good at doing things, like every damn hero.

Fucking Finn, who never used a Tie Fighter, manages to shoot down multiple fighters in two different craft.

>>49222128
Your point is dogshit. The trained people do it, but she's not trained, and she just pulls it out of her ass. Him trying to mindrape her, and having her somehow maaagiically turn it around on him isn't fucking training in any way, shape, or form.

>>49222047
> A mary sue is a character that completely warps the setting around them
that only applies in fanfics you stupid fuck.
If it's the original story, the term is PROTAGONIST.

>>49222144
>Fucking Finn, who never used a Tie Fighter, manages to shoot down multiple fighters in two different craft.
He only used turret weapons, something he was trained on. In fact, Finn in general was good at combat stuff, and combat stuff only...unlike Rey, who was good at literally every single thing she tried.

>>49222144
>Literally LUKE
Luke was essentially a farmer. On a planet like Tatooine water is pretty damn important, so he would have made decent money as a moisture farmer. Rey is basically an indentured servant, scavenging bits of scrap for a pittance and giving most of that pittance straight to the guy who basically owns her.
Luke wasn't actually that poor in comparison.

>>49222175
>He only used turret weapons, something he was trained on.
except he explicitly wasn't.
Po has to explain to him how the damn thing work.

>unlike Rey, who was good at literally every single thing she tried.
things she tires
>repairs
Major part of her backstory
>fly a ship she is established as knowing well
Part of her backstory
>h2h combat
established as her backstory
>the force
THE POINT OF HER CHARACTER.
You are supposed to wonder how she can be so good at the force. It is remarked upon in movie. Her 'awakening' is felt a great distance away and is commented up.

This is like complaining that Frodo has the One Ring.

>>49222200
>farmer, drives a speeder.
>scavenger and mechanic, drives a speeder
I'm more willing to accept that the scavanger who digs around a works on starships knows more about starships than the farmer whose never established as having been inside of one.

>>49222135
So in your mind, there's no difference between someone who hits ever target dead on and someone who has to fire multiple times as long as they eventually hit the target?

>>49222154
That's where you're wrong. He's using the Force to try and root through her brain. She can feel the Force. She's feeling exactly what he's doing to her mind. He's showing her exactly what to do as effectively as if he was training her.

>>49222047
Considering how the Skywalkers all seem to be dunces with progressively more incredible force power, I'd assume skill is somehow inherited in their case. Anakin was a mong who grew up under Jedi tutelage. Luke was a country bumpkin who rose to the same level in less than half that time, and since Yoda and Ben are both dead he was fairly self-taught as well. Then comes Rey who doesn't even need training, she just instinctively gets everything like a 40K ork, and Kylo Ren, who trounces her ass despite having a blaster gut wound. I bet Rey's baby is going to give birth to itself by using a tiny lightsaber to make a perfect cesarean, then immediately graduate from a university.

I do t think it's just being good at everything she tries that makes her a sue.

Let's go over everything else really quickly.
>Has almost nobody important dislike her except the designated villians.
>Almost no character flaws that cause tension or hinder her in a meaningful way.
>Instant rebellion membership card. Aren't they normally distrusting?

If these points get addressed and discredited meaningfully I'll be suprized.

>>49222244
That's fucking retarded. That is fucking retarded as all hell, and there are no existing examples of that sort of shit being pulled before. It's something she pulled out of her ass.

>>49222244
>That's where you're wrong. He's using the Force to try and root through her brain. She can feel the Force. She's feeling exactly what he's doing to her mind. He's showing her exactly what to do as effectively as if he was training her.

It's not even the same fucking thing! How would she learn how to mindcontrol people from someone trying to read her mind? Are you really this fucking deep in denial?

>>49222244
If the person who misses a few times never, ever suffers any consequences from missing and just has to go through a montage every time they want to hit, they're in fact worse because the story has to excuse itself.
The problem here isn't that Rey doesn't make mistakes - it's that the mistakes she makes aren't actual mistakes. They have no impact and no repercussions, and they serve only as a way to obfuscate exactly how much the plot and the setting bends for her.
If she fucked up and got busted for the failure, that would be one thing. As it is, the only repercussions that come out of any of her "failures" is that a few seconds of precious screentime are wasted.

>>49222237
Knowing about starships =/= flying ability.
The average aerospace engineers can explain everything you could ever need to know about how a jet fighter works, but stick him in the pilot's seat and he'll have crashed before he gets the wheels off the ground. I believe it is also mentioned in some piece of lore somewhere (at least according to the wookieepedia) that Luke did actually practice regularly with a repulsorlift T-16 skyhopper, which is an airspeeder. Granted an airspeeder is not an x-wing but it's better than what Rey had to practice with, which was bugger all.

Source
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/T-16_skyhopper

>>49222273
Funny, because the most retarded shit I've ever heard is "a wizard couldn't possibly learn how to use brain magic by having someone use brain magic directly on their brain."

>>49218216
Luke fought Darth fucking Vader. Rey fought a wannabe Vader that got just got shot by Chewie's bowcaster of doom (keep in mind most Jedi died in like two shots from regular guns). If anything the BS is that Ren didn't immediately collapse fighting Finn, not Rey winning, I'm amazed Kylo could stand let alone fight.

>>49222318
>"I've been hit with a crowbar, now I know how to open a safe!"

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>>49220926
I would go with Stella.

>>49222318
That's NEVER been a fucking thing in setting, you cockgobbling retard.

>>49222314
Only the movies matter, you fucking nerd.

>>49222314
> but it's better than what Rey had to practice with, which was bugger all.
and you have proof of this?
You know that Rey never did any tests flights or practice flying on the ships she got parts or and is heavily implied to have played a part in repairing?

>>49222096
That's the point, they make up bullshit justification to push the movie along. The first starwars has characters fasttalking to get into a secure area only for the plan to fall to shit and then they need to flee. When you have to pile vague shit like willpower over vague shit like the force over vague shit like legacy you get bullshit.

Look at willpower, how do you know that a sperg putting on a bitchfit has no willpower, a guy like that could blow up everyone just to spite you.

The fact that there was a shitty villain and they still needed bullshit to push Rae along makes her a Sue more than anything else.

>>49222330
well they do establish that he's basically willing himself through the injury using pain.
These are also the points where they remind the audience that he'd just been badly shot.

Which of course the haters forget, despite it happening twice.

>>49217748
Don't know if this applies to this thread but in one campaign we had our equivalent of Dumbledore.
Meaning some ally is so strong that GM had a few times to find reasons so he is not present at the moment.
Our group, by the way, didn't gave much of a shit that he may steal the spotlight. We were just happy having a strong ally.

>>49222337
>someone just poked me in a pressure point and inflicted debilitating pain on me! Maybe if I poke someone in the same spot I can hurt them too!
FTFY

>>49222349
Oh really? Because I recall a lot of force powers being taught by being shown that something is possible while being told to feel how it's possible. You know, like lifting things, or learning breath control in KotOR 2.

>>49222361
Or you're making up bullshit justifications for why someone is a Mary Sue instead of just a standard protagonist with standard protagonist capabilities. You might as well say she's a Sue because she has a good KD ratio.

>>49222264
>Instant rebellion membership card. Aren't they normally distrusting?
To be fair, Luke and Han were pretty much accepted into the rebellion on the spot.

No, but here's a fictional greentext story about one.

>>49222360
I have a logical deduction. Rey is implied to be heavily indebted throughout her entire life, basically a slave.
If you basically owned a slave, one who has had no training or experience with flying, would you waste the time and energy teaching her?
Assuming she did acquire the experience somehow, would you let a slave test-fly your working starship?
Assuming she fixed one up in secret, why would she not immediately flee the planet or sell it for enough money to buy herself out of debt, instead of wasting time practicing with it?
So, we can deduce she had no way to practice on a working starship. And even if she had practiced with a simulator, you don't go from simulator practice to military ace in your first battle.

>>49222361
>sue
>flawless
>no real weaknesses
Has no connections or friends, and has to rely on contact with others to get her to anything or anywhere.
Knows basically nothing about the power structure or leadership of the galaxy, and is completely dependent on others to do anything beyond what is directly in front of her.
Is overly attached to her own past and afraid of her potential and future, causing her to avoid and run away from oppurtinities, to the point she literally runs of into the woods by herself and gets captured.

When faced with a trained and uninjured opponent is basically no threat, scrambles away for a while then gets knocked out and captured with ease.

Just because she is good at the two things she's clearly established at being good at, one thing that is easily explained by her backstory, and one thing that is a major plot development that is commented on as major and unique in the damn script, does not make her good at everything and a flawless Sue.

>>49222144
Bilbo was a coward that made it through with his wits
Tony Stark builds the suit with his arms company
Locke gets the shit kicked out of him when his cons fail
Cain is more than willing to dirty his hands
John Wick is gets his ass saved by his sniper buddy

Luke, is a dumb kid that flies planes in the middle of nowhere because what else is there to do, is a worse shot than leia, worse pilot than han, watches his mentor die while fleeing, then blows up the deathstar with obi-wans help

All the characters have their failings, and struggles. All of them face adversity, hell even Finn gets his ass kicked. Luke couldn't shoot, luke couldn't fight, all luke could do is fly, and even then he wasn't alone.

>>49222420
Rescuing one of its senior members from Darth Vader on the motherfucking Death Star and delivering plans for its destruction are pretty powerful bona fides. What were they gonna say? 'No, you still have to prove your dedication and usefulness?'

>>49222420
Only after they rescued leia from the death star

>>49222237
Before he leaves the farm the audience knows luke want's to go to the pilot academy, he wants to buy parts for his plane t-16 in town and that he's had these plans for at least a year. If you listen to the conversation.

>>49222471
>If you basically owned a slave, one who has had no training or experience with flying, would you waste the time and energy teaching her?
because you want her to be useful
>Assuming she did acquire the experience somehow, would you let a slave test-fly your working starship?
because she's established that part of her usefulness is being able to repair the one ship she flies.
>working starship
it wasn't working, she was fixing it
>Assuming she fixed one up in secret
never implied, assumed, or made relevant to this discussion.
>why would she not immediately flee the planet or sell it for enough money to buy herself out of debt,
for the same reason she insists she needs to go back after the person she's in debt to is dead and she's already flown of the planet.

>So, we can deduce she had no way to practice on a working starship.
no, we can deduce that she might well have test flown the starships she got working.
You're assuming that starships are light fighter jets, and not like say cars or cropdusters. Because people who repair those test fly them to check their damn repairs.

>you don't go from simulator practice to military ace in your first battle.
which she doesn't. She uses her knowledge of the native terrain to her advantage.
She defeats the TIES by flying through areas she is shown to know well so she knows how to get through them, which the TIEs would not.

>>49222487
So she doesn't know people or politics. Sounds like something that would be considered expected of most normal people.

>Is overly attached to her own past and afraid of her potential and future, causing her to avoid and run away from oppurtinities, to the point she literally runs of into the woods by herself and gets captured.

"Oh no! Muh past! Muh power!" Is not a flaw unless your past involves you doing something heinous consciously and willingly, also he power isn't going to murder everything in a wide blast radius. I call this sue drama because its over nothing.

>>49222522
Rey runs away from a damn vision and then gets captured with ease the moment Kylo shows up.
Rey has no idea where she is going and just follows whatever directions shes given, because she's basically lost.

>>49222352
T-16 is from the movie, you fucking retard. Dialogue establishes it as similar enough to the x-wing to be applicable.

>>49218244
This bugged me the most honestly
>"Can you use a blaster?"
>"Well I never used one, but yeah of course I'm an amazing great shot"

>>49222562
>wants to go to academy
>Knows how to fly already
Not the same thing.
That's the same level of implying as Rey, clearly knowing the ships that are being talked about, and having been shown to make repairs, implying that she repaired those, and knew how they worked.

>>49222577
>>49222577
>So she doesn't know people or politics.
knows less than the average person, so is less capable than the average person respect.
Has no real resources to fall back on, so is less capable than the average person in this respect.

> Is not a flaw unless your past involves you doing something heinous consciously and willingly
what?
no her flaw is that she's scared of it despite it not being a big deal. If you're scared of something you reasonably should be scared of, it's not a flaw.
Running away from things you shouldn't is a flaw.

>>49218713
But... OP wanted us to talk about Rey.

>>49222620
Did you not watch the first movie? Luke was a redneck that hung out with his friends flying smallcraft shooting womprats, the only part of that outside the first act is the womprats. It's like watching a movie and asking why the kid from rural alabama with a gun rack in his pickup knows how to use a rifle.

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>>49221311
>Aside, Finn was the worst fucking character since JarJar Binks. He should have been combined with the pilot character and played just by the white guy.

>gets space-PTSD off attacking (not even himself shooting, just being present in the attack force) a village full of rebel sympathisers
>within presumably a matter of hours at most, is more than willing to break out a dangerous terrorist and personally slaughter his way through hordes of his former comrades
>>>>believable characterisation

>>49222155
>that only applies in fanfics you stupid fuck.
>Implying that Disney isn't just writing fanfiction
good one kek

>>49222144
ok, so lets go over this
>Bilbo manages to be a pretty good thief out of no where, and learns to fight with a sword he just stumbles across well enough to not die
Holy shit, Bilbo is the great example of how NOT to be a sue.
He wasn't a "good thief", the only thing he steals is a single stone.
He finds a magic ring and uses his unique perspective as a hobbit to take advantage of it, its a ring that makes you invisible, ANYONE can figure that shit out, but he is clever... its one of his only qualities, he is worthless outside of that.
He clearly struggles as well, failing multiple times leading to terrible consequences.
How many times does Gandalf save his ass?He also learns swordplay from the dwarves he's been traveling with for MONTHS.
Try better...

>Tony Stark figures out how to pilot an incredibly complex suit in a matter of days, while designing it.
In his setting he is the world's leading technology innovator in making weaponry. Possibly one of the smartest men alive period
He is being given any resource he asks for by dumbfuck terrorist that have no clue how his shit works
Builds a metal suit that is basically a bullet shield and a flamethrower, is terribly designed and almost kills him
Has terrible social skills and trust issues that constantly plague him
Suffers real consequences for his actions.
Nothing Sueish there, sure he has skills, very good skills, but he also clearly has drawbacks and weaknesses that effect him constantly

>Ciaphas Cain
A fucking series designed to be a 40k parody... really?

>John Wick
Its a fucking action summer blockbuster and is terrible writing as well...

>Fucking Finn,
Finn was at least trained, from childhood, to be soldier, Rey literally outmaneuvers trained pilots in more nimble crafts. Which is more believable?

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>>49222664
>Gets horrified that your friend died in combat
>Goes on to crack jokes while shooting former friends

>>49222620
>no her flaw is that she's scared of it despite it not being a big deal. If you're scared of something you reasonably should be scared of, it's not a flaw.
Running away from things you shouldn't is a flaw.

And where was that fear when she was in combat or danger? She just threw the force around without fear or struggle. Where did all that fear go?

>knows less than the average person, so is less capable than the average person respect. Has no real resources to fall back on, so is less capable than the average person in this respect.

Oh no! No fallback plan! No people or resources to fall back on! If only she was well liked and people would go out of their way to help her! Oh wait.

>>49222337
Joking aside, that's how it happened to me.

>>49222663
and Rey was a mechanic who worked on the ships she's shown to fly.

It's like watching a movie and asking why the rural kid from Alabama shown to be fixing up beaters somehow knows how to drive one of those beaters when he steals the keys.

>>49222706
>If only she was well liked and people would go out of their way to help her!
if you can't understand why Han might be attracted to a surrogate daughter character who is shown to have similar interests to him after losing his own son. I don't know how to help you.

>>49222754
>Hey poor girl, of course I'll let you train how to fly with my expensive ship that you could use to fly into space, I'm sure you'll need it someday so you can fly a breaking ship near perfectly

>>49222754
>somehow knows how to drive one of those beaters when he steals the keys.
That's not the problem... its out maneuvering clearly trained pilots with superior vehicles, all the while talking and acting like she just barely knows what she's doing...

It's one thing for a Alabama boy to know how to drive a beater he worked on, another entirely for him to suddenly have the skills of a professional stunt driver

>>49222754
What about everything else, how'd that kid from Alabama learn French, fencing, shooting, mind reading too?

>>49222813
He was taught.

>>49222704
Not sure the Stormtrooper who died was Finn's friend. Given what we know of Stormtroopers, actually, that's probably presuming a lot.

>>49222563
She's also force sensitive, which helps her reflexes while flying.

>>49222754
>Has no real resources to fall back on
>Surrogate daughter

One of these arguments is invalid.

>>49222855
And this helped Luke, anikin, young obi, and so many other Jedi in the past didn't it?

>>49222813
>learn french
Bunch of Caribean families who speak french and two other languages near by. He's shown to yell back and forth at them earlier in the movie.
>fencing
shown to beat people up with a baseball bat.
Is pretty shit with the sword until he gets a vision and is fighting a badly wounded opponent.
>mind reading
It's fucking magic, so it works however the movie says magic works, because magic doesn't exist in the real world, so we rely on what the movie tells us to establish how it works.

>>49222829
I think canonically it was actually his best friend who he always stood up for, but that doesn't even really matter, as seeing the trooper seemed to upset him on a level more than just "I could die", meaning even if it wasn't his friend, you would think he would still have a semblance of care for the men he was killing.

It was honestly my least favorite part because him being upset and showing a human side of stoormtroopers as a whole and not just him would have been cool and really added to his character

>>49222878
>And this helped Luke, anikin, young obi, and so many other Jedi in the past didn't it?
Well, yes?

>>49222878
she doesn't start with the resources dipshit.
Hence being dependant on others, one of whom has a very good reason for wanting a surrogate child.
Those things do not conflict, they support each other.

>And this helped Luke, anikin, young obi, and so many other Jedi in the past didn't it?
yes. it's explicitly explained as doing that, and shown multiple times.

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>>49222904
>Staff skills would readily translate to lightsaber skills
>It's fucking magic
>Is why she's better than every other magic person even if they were the best magic person in the world with so much mana that he might have be born from mana

>>49222935
Is she can gain the resources with 0 difficulties then there is a problem with her character. Mainly plausibility. How has lack of social contact made socialization difficult for her?

>>49222805
It's a lot more believable when they're driving off-road in the back woods of Alabama where he's been driving all his life while the stunt drivers deal almost exclusively with highway stunts.

>>49222592
I don't remember a time where she made shots that 'hollywood untrained' people wouldn't've

>>49223041
(also he's magic while the stunt driver is just a normal human)

>>49222714
...

You learned how to open a safe by being hit with a crowbar?

>>49222878
>And this helped Luke, anikin, young obi, and so many other Jedi in the past didn't it?
You're joking, right? You remember how Anakin was the only human podracer because he was force sensitive? Or Luke turning off his targeting systems and trusting in the force?

A mary sue can only exist if the gm allows it; in which case you should just abandon the game.

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>>49217748
Used to have a DM that used Mary Sue DMPCs in every one of its campaigns. After the second campaign fell through because of railroading bullshit I stopped playing with it. However, some of my other friends played another campaign with it years later and ran into the same issues. Needless to say the whole group doesnt play any games with it any more, in addition to a few more reasons which dont need mentioning on a chinese animated gloryhole picture board.

>>49217748
that movie fucking sucked

>>49222952
>even if they were the best magic person in the world with so much mana that he might have be born from mana
who?

>>49223077
>Anakin in Ep1
>Not marry-sue

Also the difference between Luke doing it with the targeting system and Rey just being the bestest pilot, is that Luke doing that was his big thing for the movie, that was the climax, that was the one cool thing he got to do.
Rey has a bunch of those though, that's why people call her a Marry Sue, it's not a single thing she did, but that she can do pretty much everything, fixing ships, fighting, piloting, shooting, force powers better than everyone, no matter her training experience.

>>49222155
It's possible for a protagonist to be a Mary Sue.

Granted, it's less likely, but it's still possible. I mean, take a protagonist. Make him obnoxious, but still liked by pretty much everyone he runs across, except the villains (but have that be alright, because the villains are the BAD guys, so them not liking him is a sign that he's good, right?). Give him a "tragic" backstory, possibly including a single mother who gets killed by bandits or something then getting raised by his abusive grandmother or something. Give him literally no reason to be even slightly able to use the setting's abloo-bloo-bloo magic/pseudoscience bullshit/psionics/whatever, and yet he still can. If he's got that whole "single mother" background thing, have his father be a super-infamous figure, and then give him angst about "oh no I accidentally a person, I'm clearly evil".

That's at least halfway towards being a Sue.

>>49222563
I feel like you're reaching too far to justify this man. The other factor is why would her slave master (who we all see is cruel) ever allow her to be trained or test a starship? You don't give your captive the keys to the station wagon and show them how to drive it. All so that someday maybe you could use your SLAVE to go to the grocery store for you. I don't buy it man.

>>49223173
Anakin.

The only lolforce powers he does in the first movie is related to piloting podracers and the incredibly awful scene where he pilots a starship.

>>49223026
>zero difficulty.
>How has lack of social contact made socialization difficult for her?
well she rejects Hans offer, thus leaving her alone, so she stumples around, gets scared, runs off and gets captured.

The only reason she's saved is another character with no one else for support feels a connection to her.

I mean you could complain about the coincidence of happening to run into Luke Skywalker who happens to know Obi Wan who happens to oh wait wrong movie.
Of happening to be in the camp that is being looked at for the Super Soldier project and having the test done in front of your squad. Wrong movie again
Of happening to stumble upon a creature that has a magic artifact that is exactly what you need to steal from the dragon. Sorry still wrong movie.

>>49222122
>Everyone else in the series that tried it has been trained. Not even close to the same thing.
I don't remember the scene when Yoda teaches Luke to control other people's minds.

>>49223176
So in other words, she's a Mary Sue because she's good with weapons and vehicles. You do understand that's basically protagonist ever.

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>>49218385

>>49223255
Or where he teaches Luke to choke people with his mind. Seriously, that came out of nowhere.

>>49223257
That's exactly what I said anon, no need to have ready comprehension.
No the issue is she does too much too well with too little explanation, and that she constantly good instead of struggling or not being good for a while.

Look at Luke, a different protagonist, all he does is shoot a few guys and pilot during at the climax and make an amazing shot. For most of the movie he's not some amazing hero. Luke is much less skilled than Rey, so he seems less marry sueish

>>49223206
> The other factor is why would her slave master (who we all see is cruel) ever allow her to be trained or test a starship?
because he wanted her to be useful.
Why else does she know anything about mechanics?

>You don't give your captive the keys to the station wagon and show them how to drive it.
you do if you're in the damn ship with them. Or even better, know they will always come back because they are waiting for someone.
Rey wants to return to the planet after succeeding in leaving. That's why she never left. Not because she couldn't.

>>49223311
reading*

>>49223322
>Slavemaster teaching someone how to fly an incredibly expensive ship
But that's fucking stupid anon

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>>49221089
>SEX: USELESS

>>49223355
>incredibly expensive ship
did we watch the same series?

>>49223355
You've never heard of pilots, anon? Flying ships is an entire profession.

>>49223280
Force Choke is basically a small-scale, finesse-based application of Force Push. You're applying the force (physics force, not space-magic-psionics Force) around the neck directed inwards, rather than across the whole side of an entire object, directed in one direction.

Knowing how to use Force Push is basically knowing how to use Force Choke.

>>49220848
Not to mention Kylo Ren ad just killed his own father. He was compromised physically and emotionally.

I think there will be an answer to explain how she was accomplishing things that people question. I have this issue with my pjayers, too. They know only what info they've gleaned through play while I have much more information but when theycan't persuade an NPC with some shit hey assume the npc would want but my own notes explain why he doesn't, they whine like bitches.

>>49222676

I agree with you on everything except for John Wick. That movie was incredible and it made sense for him to be that deadly. Wick would be a mary sue if he was good at everything with little explanation. Instead, he is specifically one of the most elite assassins in NY. In that setting, which is full of extremely skilled assassins, it's very believable that one of them is the hands down best and it happens to be John Wick.

>>49222676

>How many times does Gandalf save his ass?He also learns swordplay from the dwarves he's been traveling with for MONTHS.

Except the dwarves give no indication in the books that they can fight well at all. I mean, they embark on their grand journey with no weapons, and the one time they're actually effective in combat is on a suicide charge at the battle of five armies, which nearly gets everyone killed.

>>49223591
I can buy them knowing how to fight. They've lived a rough and tumble life.
But they are never shown as taking time to train Bilbo.

>>49223645
>I can buy them knowing how to fight. They've lived a rough and tumble life.


Have they? They seem to have spent most of their lives as coal miners and blacksmiths in the Blue Mountains. I think Balin and Thorin are the only ones even old enough to have lived in the Lonely Mountain.

The impression I always got in the books is that they were by and large bumblers, the lot of them, and that this expedition was not particularly well planned.

>>49223257
she is BEST with weapons and vehicles with little or no training

Go away Abrams,nobody likes you here

>>49219016
Not really, sounds more like a murder hobo than a sue. Sues have the good answer to everything, you just bashed it's head in.

>>49223645
>>49223591
Bilbo doesn't really fight, he just turns invisible and stabs people not looking at them.

Thorin can fight, we know that though.

>>49223428
>I think there will be an answer to explain how she was accomplishing things that people question.

The theory is that she is a skywalker. The vision she sees when she touches the lightsaber is Luke's failed academy being destroyed by the Knights of Ren and her being left of Jakku was Luke wiping her mind to protect her.

bottom line: people are arguing here like idiots over something PLAINLY going to be expanded on during the next movie

>>49222144

Ciaphas Cain believes himself to be a coward, but the third party firsthand witness Amberley's footnotes make it clear that he's actually a heroic badass. He also spends long periods doing almost nothing but training with a chainsword. If I remember rightly, he spends 3 weeks doing nothing but practicing chainsword drills before crash landing on Perlia, where he fights off a handful of Orks. That's... well, for 40k, that's totally believable.

>>49220943
It was her second try. Rey always needs one try to get things inexplicably perfect.

>>49218313
this guy gets it.

>>49223263
>those weaknesses
that shit isn't weaknesses it's just another endearing clutz.

>>49224676
So Obi-Wan had High Ground, Shiv had Spinning UAAGH and Rey has "Second time's the charm"

>>49224868
No, Sheev had "It's Treason, Then".

>>49222563
>because you want her to be useful

>I want to make my owned property useful
>So I'm teaching it how to fly spacecrafts capable of leaving the planet, then allowing her to fly them
>I see no possible way this makes her an escape risk

>>49223200
Back when I was more involved in fandom shit, such characters were referred to as "Canon sues".

>>49223402
Yeah, flying spacefaring ships is definetly a profession in the SW universe.

Teaching slaves who are desperate to escape their captivity how to fly ships that can go off-planet is still not a smart idea.

>>49225158
>>49224868
Anakin
>Spinning is a Good Trick
Mace
>This Party's Over?

>>49225937
>Implying that old hunk of junk can get anywhere quickly and is untrackable
Besides, where would she go? Sell the clearly stolen shit and wind up stuck on a different shithole planet with a small amount of capital and a good amount of chance of being found? Or journey to the planets that are still a hotbed of rebellion chaos or Machiavellian empire outposts and say "Hey, I just stole this ship from an outer rim shithole to get here, but we're cool right? I can be a mechanic!"

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>>49222352

>on /tg/
>calling someone a nerd

>>49224331
So will luke tell Rey he is her father before or after he cuts her hand off?

>>49226027
>>49226027
you're forgetting the much bigger reason.
Because when she did escape. And found a contact who offered her a place to go and something to do.
She said "I need to go back".

She was the one keeping herself there.

>>49218216
Don't forget she did all that force crap with zero training. Took Luke a long time to learn to control the force. She also got force visions which we've never seen another jedi/sith do.

>>49227219
wow, at least they admit that Kylo was injured.
The rest of the stupid remains, but hey, baby steps.

>>49223200
Eragon is a prime example.

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>>49218385
>>49217748

>>49227014

Both Anakin and Yoda got visions with the force in the prequel trilogy.

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>>49217748
>ITT: Thinly veiled /tv/ thread to bitch about an overrated sci-fi series

>>49227471
Its fucking true though m8, Finn was way more intresting

Haven't seen them much because I stick to more rules heavy stuff. I DID encounter one DMPC that was just better than everyone and also the main character. He didn't even have a character sheet.
I did PLAY a mary sue once in a freeform RP. I knew what he was, I explained his ridiculous power level, I admitted it probably wasn't a good idea to approve the character. But they did.

>>49222144
Luke had a family, was a farmer, went to the city often for various reasons. He had a pretty regular life.

Rey literally lived alone and scavenged to stay alive.

>>49229851
So you're saying Rey should be more self sufficient and capable than Luke was.
Good point

I've never really seen a mary sue in a game, which makes me afraid I might've made a mary sue character once and I'm not even aware of it

>>49222219
>her backstory is being amazing at everything so it's okay

>This is like complaining that Frodo has the One Ring.
Except frodo is a chicken shit coward who does basically nothing for the entire journey, being figuratively and LITERALLY carried to his destination by more capable individuals.

>>49229957
>Rey runs away due to her own insecurities, gets captured with ease. Needs to be fucking rescued.
Yep, flawless and best at everything.

>Amazing at everything.
At one fucking thing. Fixing shit.
She's capable at other things, like every other protagonist in the damn series, but there is plenty of shit she isn't shown to being great at. Or in fact is shown to be bad at, but people can't into understanding how being how personal flaws can count as flaws, only being fighting.
Because killing storm troopers is so our of character for any named star wars character.

>>49230035
>Needs to be fucking rescued.
except she freed herself and met up with her would-be-rescuers later

>>49230035
>Rey runs away due to her own insecurities, gets captured with ease. Needs to be fucking rescued.
>Yep, flawless and best at everything.

Then she rescues herself! Are you this dense?

Do you think one of Luke's flaws was that he turned off his targeting system before he blew up the Death Star?

You should legitimately kill yourself

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>>49230035
>Needs to be rescued
>Frees herself
>Movie makes joke about she didn't need any saving

>>49224331
>It's okay if a movie sucks and lacks tension because they will explain it in the sequels! And if the sequels fuck up something I'm sure they will be explained in the next movie!

You are why we can't have nice things

>>49230137
>Frees herself
And totally has a way to get off the base.
Oh wait. She fucking doesn't.

>>49230076
She was playing a game of hide and seek with no hope of winning. The hangers were locked down and extra guards put in place. Even if she managed to steal a ship she could fly she'd have to avoid being shot down, and also recognize that there is a shield she'd have to hyperspace through.

Several times,

Was in a Sea/Pirate themed Pathfinder game that had some sexually active npcs.

Then they all died horribly and were replaced by mary sues like an undead succubus. Somehow it was powerful enough to command us against our will but couldn't do jack shit to fix her own curse and other problems.

>>49230035
>Rey runs away due to her own insecurities, gets captured with ease. Needs to be fucking rescued.
>gets over he insecurities in the next scene and never hinted at again
>gets captured with ease and escapes with ease

Are you a cuck?

>>49230286
So really all they did is bring her a ship? That's not really saving, hell if she was the one who called them no one would call it saving.
Plus it's not like she hasn't already be shown capable of stealing a ship than flying away.

>>49230110
So Luck being a better shot and pilot than the actual trained fighters due to intuitive use of the force inspired by a vision, totally cool not Mary Sue.
Rey manages to take down a badly injured emotionally unstable man by using the force intuitive after having a character present in the scene tell remind her about the force: total Mary Sue bullshit

>>49230286
>grasping at straws

I'm sure if she commandeered a Tie Fighter and then flew off the planet and exploded Kylo Ren and Snoke with her new power you would still find a way to say "w-w-w-well in this one specific scene m-maybe she might have a flaw"

>>49230321
>All they did is bring her something she desperately needed and had no hope of obtaining, that's totally not a rescue.

Yeah sure.
If you manage to escape an ambush and call someone saying "I need evac right now", the guys who bring the damn helicopter while you desperately evade the enemy totally didn't rescue you.

inb4 the prequels were better.

>>49230332
>Malnourished junk scrapper from a shitty sand planet defeats the dark sword fighting wizard who has been trained by the greatest sword fighting wizard who ever lived when a few hours ago she didn't know about magic and never picked up a sword
>also she wins in a complete landslide and he is unable to land a single hit on her
>but it's okay because the dark wizard had a boo-boo

Damn I can't argue with that logic

>>49230345
>You're acting like things that never happened didn't happen
Yes, yes I am.

>>49230370
It's not on the same level as a rescue operation, no, that's pretty obvious.
Bringing someone a ship and breaking them out of prison is bigger than bringing them a ship

>>49230370
>had no hope of obtaining

How do you know that?

>>49230321
Sure it is. She would have been dead along with Finn at the end of the movie if Chewie hadn't shown up in the Falcon. Even if she knew where they'd parked, which she didn't, she couldn't carry Finn. Chewie had to do that.

At most without Chewie and the Falcon she and Finn might have been "saved" when Hux went to collect Kylo Ren.

>>49230390
Except none of those things are true.
Ren wasn't ever stated or implied to be a lightsaber master. None of his teachers are said or implied to be the best in history. It wasn't a landslide, she was loosing until the"use the force luck" scene.
And calling a shit from cheque a boo-boo had better be trolling

>>49230332
>outflies special forces pilots in her first outing
>gets a job offer on the millennium falcon for being just so gosh darn amazing
>masters the force in half an hour of learning about it
>outfights and outforces kylosteel the hedgesith
>inherits the falcon and living carpet after han bites it
shit man, even dash rendar had to settle for a knock-off falcon

>>49230408
Because it was clearly shown that the hanger was crawling with guards and she was constantly trying to avoid detection even in the damn hallways.

But no, we should assume she's an all powerful sue who could blow up the entire station with a wave of her hands, and use that assumption to justify calling her a sue.

>>49230445
Damn you got me again

I think being trained under Luke Skywalker (the only jedi remaining) and being so powerful he was able to kill all the other students and force Luke into hiding seems pretty weak to me.

I can totally see how some random scrap hobo could beat him. Beginners luck right?

>>49230450
Uses the terrain she is clearly shown as being intimately familiar with to her advantage.

>>49230477
>it is completely outside the realm of movie possibility that she could have commandeered one Tie Fighter
>even though it's already shown she can mind control Stormtroopers with relative ease

Sure buddy. It was literally impossible she could have escaped. You have proven beyond a reasonable doubt she is not a Mary Sue. Congratulations.

>>49230477
>trying to avoid detection even in the damn hallways.
>even in the damn hallways.
>even in hallways
I don't think there are many places harder to hide in.

Plus it's easy enough to hijack a ship that Finn could do it without mindcontrol, sure he had the armor, but that's it really.
She could have easily flown off on her own.

>>49230511
>walk around a cave system
>pilot a jet through the same cave system with ease because lel you've walked through it before

One of these things is not the same. Can you figure out why?

>>49230485
He didn't do that alone you fuckwit.
And Luke was never stated to be the greatest lightsaber fighter.
He only beats Vader when Vader wasn't trying to kill him.

Ren was stated to have not completed Luke's training.

So yes, I did catch you saying bullshit.

>>49230511
>Uses the terrain she is clearly shown as being intimately familiar with to her advantage.

Air is air.
Unless you mean the specif ruins, which she would have no real reason to know every single hole in a wreck, unless she has magic memory, and even so elite pilots could still see them

>>49227515
that is horrifying

>>49230388
But they legitimately were, aside from maybe 2.

>>49222522
>Tony Stark builds the suit with his arms company
So you missed the part where he built a super-suit of power armour in a cave full of scrap without a single one of his captors ever getting vaguely suspicious of what he was building?
I mean, it's not like this was the first thirty minutes of the film or anything, I can see how you could have overlooked it.

>>49230539
Because she knows where the openings in the cave system is
>>49230536
Hallways with lots of cross passages and doorways are shell of a lot easier to hide in than a hanger crawling with guards.

Trying to claim that she's to good at everything by using things she is never shown or implied to be capable of doing is fucking bullshit of the highest order.

>>49230511
last I checked she wasn't flying around inside those ships while scavenging

And it was literally her first time flying ever. Even luke had the excuse of beggar's canyon for his death star run.

>>49230601
>Super suit
>Practically a giant suit of medievil armor with rocket boots and a flame thrower

>>49230562
>Unless you know the specific ruins.
Her fucking intro scene is here crawling in those exact ruins. In the part of the ruins she flies through.

>>49230606
>Trying to claim that she's to good at everything by using things she is never shown or implied to be capable of doing is fucking bullshit of the highest order.

Which thing did I claim she could that she couldn't?
Mind control people, or pilot a ship?
Because she did both

Rey is a "chosen one" type protagonist. She has some mad talents, and situations will contrive to let her use those talents in awesome ways because she is The Hero. Also she may occasionally reach deep and find reserve of Heroic Spirit, which let her succeed at something she probably should have failed at, because she's The Hero.

I think a lot of fantasy protagonists are much much more sue-ish than Rey, and I thin that many of those those characters are still good characters.

I honestly don't think any of the people calling her a Sue would be doing so if she were a male character. They would just see her as a standard jedi protagonist and think nothing of it.

>>49230450
I don't really get the whole "expert flying" Rey notion. She keeps slamming into things, she never actually outflies the TIEs who kept up with her. She needed Finn to tell her to fly low to scramble their targeting sensors and he had to man the gun. The Falcon was repeatedly hit with shots from the TIE including getting Finn's gun damaged. Even her big moment flying into a SSD, already a fuckhuge ship, not only didn't last long but the tight confines gave her too little room to maneuver and the TIE pilot was able to target her.

Really the only amazing thing that she did was line up the shot for Finn and she didn't know how she did that. It's the earliest sign that she has the Force as her guild despite not being aware of it herself.

If you want a super awesome pilot just check out Poe. He can take out the big guns of a FO Star Destroyer in a single TIE. He's so awesome his strafing runs on Takodana hit Stormtroopers right in their ten rings, then he pulls up to rip several TIEs out of the sky. He took out Starkiller Base by performing first a trench run and then an internal flight. Eat your heart out, Wedge Antilles, he did both your moves in a single movie! Then his TIE just spams torpedoes inside the oscillator. No wonder the Resistance doesn't need the equivalent of Y-Wings when the new X-Wings can launch that many torps and pilots like Poe who scores a direct hit each and every time while doing steep turns in the tight confines. And he does it all without the Force.

>in the end a sad Leia cries on Rey's shoulders (the girl she met like less than a day ago)
>Leia walks right by Chewbacca

But she isn't a Mary Sue right guys?

>>49230624
If she ain't twenty five+ tons and moving at about a thousand miles an hour all of her experience is fairly irrelevant.

>>49230624
But I said that, and I said she wouldn't know which parts to fly through just because she's been inside of it.

>>49230656
>I think a lot of fantasy protagonists are much much more sue-ish than Rey, and I thin that many of those those characters are still good characters.

Name some

>>49230608
> Then you didn't watch the damn movie because her intro is herhaving climbed to the damn ceiling, so she has a 3d awareness of them.
>First time flying
This has been gone over. This is an assumption you don't shave evidence for. Just like you have no evidence she could have gotten a ship on the first order base.

Don't base your argument on things that aren't actually in the film.

>>49230659
I don't think they ever met until that point, did they?

>>49218253
It's almost like she is the protagonist of a Star Wars film trilogy.

>>49230641

It doesn't sound like you are very familiar with Star Wars.

>>49230716
Luke wasn't good at everything

So I don't understand your point

>>49230727
So which one did she not do in the movie?

>>49230583
"I don’t like sand. It’s coarse and rough and irritating, and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything’s soft... and smooth..."

>>49230716

The last protagonist failed as a mentor.
Another one got his legs and an arm chopped off, then he was set on fire.
The very first one lost an arm and failed to do much besides reunite with his dad five minutes before he died.

>>49230665
>She totally wouldn't know the openings in the ship she's clearly shown to have crawled all over repeatedly.
>Luke makes an offhand mention to flying through a canyon. Totally justifying him being as good as top space fighter pilots.

Every time you ignore a scene in TFA where They'd advantage is clearly shown before she uses it, but accept an offhand line justifying Luke being able to pull off something similar, you're saying "tell don't show, because I'm too stupid to pick up on show".

>>49217748
Does Bill Gates count? Or did Steve Jobs fill the label better?

>>49230739
luke was even failing in this movie

>inb4 he dies and rey makes the jedi academy again but without fucking up because she has a uterus

>>49218534
>a hair color available out of a bottle to any asshole in the real world is absolutely beyond the pale in a fictional character
You are straight up stupid

>>49230803
As other's have pointed climbing through something on the ground isn't the samething, and I even said, that even if it did give her a prior knowledge, that fighter aces would be able to see it pretty quickly.

>Luke makes an offhand mention to flying through a canyon. Totally justifying him being as good as top space fighter pilots.
But you're fucking wrong, as has been pointed out many times, if what she did was the climax movie or something, no one would gripe, what people are saying is that even her small moments are "lol I'm the best"
And no, what it justified was him knowing how to fly, and being a good shot because he shot at animals a certain size similar to the opening they needed.

>>49230855
That's not why, and you know that very well.
It's bad because it's a hallmark of people so weeby that they force gratuitous anime elements into everything.

>>49230871
As have been pointed out she wasn't that great of a pilot, she smashed into things a lot.
Having a well developed three d awareness of the cave would be more useful than trying to figure them out seeing them for the first time during a high speed chase, which is what happens to the TIE fighters.

It was set up more than Luke's flying. They just showed it rather than saying it.

>>49230953
>As have been pointed out she wasn't that great of a pilot, she smashed into things a lot
With a broken ship.
She smashed into things when the engines cut.

>Having a well developed three d awareness of the cave would be more useful than trying to figure them out seeing them for the first time during a high speed chase, which is what happens to the TIE fighters.
And actually being a pilot would be a thousand times better

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Sigh.

>>49230679
>>49230679

Luke and Anakin to start with. Most of the force users in the expanded universe, especially the darkside protagonists.

I don't personally think that Starkiller is a good character. The whole point of Starkiller is to be a giant sue for god-of-war-in-space, and he's good for that, but I personally think he could have been the giant sue and also been a more interesting character.

Aragorn is an ultra-competent action movie hero with half a dozen different magical bloodlines and he isn't even the biggest sue in Middle Earth. He isn't even the biggest HUMAN sue in Middle Earth.

All the main characters in Wheel of Time are sues, he basically wrote a hilarious in-world explanation for plot armor, "The great tapestry spirals around them".

Action movies in general, especially fantasy action movies, tend to be more suish than book protagonists. Then again I file super hero movies under "fantasy" and that might be weird of me.

>>49230983
How? No seriously how are you better able to spot things in a cave you are flying through for the first time a high speed, than know they are there having explored them at length.
A thing you were shown that Arey has done twice.

Or do I start calling you doubting Thomas, because you will not notice things unless the movie shows it to you a full three times.

>>49231003
So taking the time to explain things never shown but implied for Luke is totally okay.
Doing that for Rey is grasping at straws

>>49231111
>How? No seriously how are you better able to spot things in a cave
You're not, I never said that, I said you'd be better off. Turns out knowing a cave system well doesn't mean that despite having little if any experience flying you'd be able to out maneuver trained pilots in that cave.

>>49230450
>gets a job offer on the millennium falcon for being just so gosh darn amazing
Is that the reason why? Han seemed to like how she appreciated the Falcon, which is always a good way to gain points with him, but it seemed like what really caused him to react was her mention that she needed to wait for the family who abandoned her and being so naive about the galaxy she wasn't aware the galaxy had as much green in one place as the first time she saw a forest.

Han by TFA is at least allowed to be different even as JJ, for some reason, booted him to just a smuggler again despite there being many things he'd proven capable of during the OT. He's hurting over his son and feels guilty. They sent Ben to Luke for training but it wasn't enough, and surely they feel if they hadn't sent him away things would have turned out differently. Finding a young woman who has been abandoned by her family and stuck on a shithole like Jakku, I can see him trying to offer her a better place in the galaxy. I liked it. It's one of the early indicators of Han as a father figure. It's not just Rey, he is aware Finn is lying but doesn't call him out, even offers him some advice on women. In the deleted scenes he was aware Finn wasn't resistance because of his boots. As the movie stands I suppose it's because you can't bullshit a bullshitter. Finn would suck at sabacc.

>>49218713
this

>>49231184
>Knowing the layout of a place does not make you better army navigating it than someone whose never seen it before

>>>/tv/

>>49231306
You're forgotting the important part where Han clearly is missing his son and now has a potential surrogate daughter dropped in his lap.

The other person who"likes her immediately" is Finn. Who clearly doesn't.
They fight repeatedly, and only after saving each other's lives multiple times and demonstrating to each other more than once their individual skills do they start liking each other.

>>49222047

You need to watch the movie again. She wasn't flying like a pro. She literally had the ship dragging and banging into shit for most the flight and then pulled off one stunt that was barely much to write home about. A mary sue would have flown that shit like han in the astroroid belt but 'cooler'.

Same went for the saber duel. She used it more like a spear than any proper form and clumsy at that, not like she went vaapad out the gate

Force Awakens elicited no response from me at all. About halfway through I started forgetting who the characters were and falling asleep, and until this thread I genuinely didn't remember what that girl's name was. I mean I usually type out a long ass review of media I've encountered but I don't remember anything about this film except that there was a bigger Death Star. It doesn't help that the other movie I saw that year was Fury Road.

How is Star Wars still alive anyway, I personally gave up on it in 1999.

>>49231525
>You're forgotting the important part where Han clearly is missing his son and now has a potential surrogate daughter dropped in his la
But that's what that post was all about.

>>49227014

There have been lots of untrained force users doing shit on reflex without knowing it was the force. Expanded universe was full of them.

>>49231696
New canon has a bit. Ventress as a girl caught the attention of her future Jedi Master because she Force Pushed the fuck out of the area to save the Jedi from being killed. Ezra Bridger did an instinctive Force Push to save Zeb, an incident that convinced Kanan to start actually training the boy which he'd previously been putting off. He also did a Force Jump without training after witnessing Kanan doing one, which was before Ezra was even aware of the Force. He also had a subconscious Force insight, a kind of Spider Sense, which is why he first picked up on Kanan's presence.Then of course Anakin had his Jedi reflexes good enough to race in a sport humans typically cannot handle. He also apparently aced the Jedi Council's flash card test.

Seems like it's typical for children to manifest some form of recognizable ability which is often how the Jedi get called in to recruit. At Star Wars Celebration this year they talked about how Force Sensitives actually fetch a fine price. Ahsoka Tano was recruited by Plo Koon but prior to his showing up a fake Jedi arrived to try and abduct her after he heard about her.

>>49231599
Sorry. You're right, missed that in the second paragraph.

>>49217748
Closest thing I've seen was actually a character I played, but that was only 'cause it was a planar shepherd in D&D 3.5.

I was careful to avoid all that powergamer perfect, idealized, special snowflake crap 'cause I knew I would've ended up hating him and dropping the character.

Anakin was a young kid in his first movie but he still kicks ass at the end of it. I like the podracing angle because it explains his skills as a pilot to some extent and it explains why his force-talent for enhanced reflexes would be so well developed. Second movie he goes on to be one of the greatest pilots ever in addition to generally being awesome at everything, but then he gets cocky vs a more experienced force user and gets shut down, because that's what happens to hotshots.

Luke was a good, quiet apprentice for all of his first movie, he just kept his mouth shut and learned. His main power is the one he shares with all the other main characters which is that storm stroopers can't hit him. But then in the second movie he outflies his dad. So. His dad flew pod racers as a kid, Luke just farted around with hovercrafts in the desert, but luke beets Anakin because plot. And again, 3rd movie, Vader has way way more combat experience but Luke wins because he's just that powerful (and also because Luke was inflamed by protective anger thinking of his sister, his darkside mojo was flowing, whereas Vader's darkside mojo was hampered by the painful task of fighting his son. Or at least that's my headcanon).

Rey kicks ass in her first movie, she learns to jedi mind trick intuitively which seems like a big deal, and she has really strong force-intuition when it comes to anything mechanical. Her flying isn't that remarkable though, she isn't a pilot-savant like Luke or Ani, and I think that the people who take issue with her "unexplained skills" at flying are just sperging out here. She sucks at flying, she joins forces with Finn and they bumble through it like the plucky heroes they are. But she obviously starts with a lot of combat experience, even if it is just street fighting, she will fuck you up in melee.

>>49233308
Anyway, the point is that Rey is generally more effective in her first movie than the other two heroes were, but that makes sense to me, both because of the context of the movie (she isn't surrounded by more powerful jedi who deal with threats) and because of her background (she isn't a young kid like Ani and she wasn't sheltered like Luke, she's been fighting for survival since she was Ani's age).

I'm going to agree with the consensus that Ren is a whiney bitch, though to me it looks like he might be very talented at certain things, saber fighting just isn't one of them. He still would have been able to take out Ren and Finn if he hadn't been both weakened and injured (and you KNOW he was weakened because if he hadn't been he would have deflected Chewie's shot and wouldn't have gotten injured. Killing his dad broke his mojo).
I will say that I like Ren because I see him as an up-and-comer, which is fun in a villain. Which means that I"m hoping to see him become a lot more capable and dangerous in future movies, and I'll be very disappointed if he goes lightside or if he continue to be a bitch.

>>49231456
No, what I said is being a pilot is more important than knowing a layout when flying a ship in a cave, Maneuvering is not navigating.
But I guess you probably don't have an actual response.

>>49231573
> She wasn't flying like a pro. She literally had the ship dragging and banging into shit for most the flight
That's because her ship was broken. The ship was not in good shape

>>49233627
And you no this because you've flown a ship in a cave?
We're are you getting any evidence that knowing where you need to go is less important than piloting skill?
Or is this just going to devolved into "yes it is, no it isn't".

Because you've already admitted that Rey used the terrain to her advantage, she's clearly shown to know the terrain before doing so.
So all we're left with is "they should have been better enough pilots that this advantage wouldn't have mattered". And at that point I don't care because TIE pilots are as good or bad as they need to be for any given scene, and this is true for every damn Star Wars movie.

>>49233695
And or she wasn't that good of a pilot.
There is no scene where we see her pulling off crazy piloting skills in a perfectly working ship, so we have no basis for saying she would be the best at piloting if the ship was top of the line.

>>49218206

Speak wookie.

Droid i can understand givin her background.
And hell if they had a few wookies running around tatooine 2.0 even that might have made sense.

>>49233695

The falcon was perpetually busted in Empire and Han gave no fucks. Why couldn't Rey if she's a such a great pilot.

>>49233775

aside from flying through a crashed star destroyer

>>49233746

His core argument is very very weak, frankly there are much better examples of bad writing elsewhere in the same movie, and I'm speaking as someone who went to see it again and probably would have gone a third time if I'd had anyone else to go with.

>>49233828
Which she is clearly shown, twice, as knowing the layout of in detail.
Stop it Thomas, we don't need to tell you everything three times

>>49233746
>And you no this because you've flown a ship in a cave?
We're are you getting any evidence that knowing where you need to go is less important than piloting skill?
She barely piloted a ship if at all before. If I put you in the cockpit of a ship you couldn't do it.
Jesus Christ, My point is being able to fly is more important than knowing where to fly. If you can't understand that, then that's your own issue.

>>49233895
his point is that's a special stunt, even if you have been in it before. Flying in tight spaces threw small gaps is hard retard.

>>49233806
She is shown speaking at least 2 other alien languages. on Jackie. She's a polyglot like lots of people who grow up surrounded by multiple languages. They pick up languages fast, and smugglers must swing though there to buy and sell things.

>>49233825
The engine literally stopped working midflight.

>>49233903
>My point is...
Never given any evidence. Prove that being a better pilot will always be more important than knowing the terrain.

>>49233923
Using space ships? We've got proof of this.

And maybe it was hard, she says it's risky.
If it's hard that explains why the TIEs crash

>>49233967
Not the point he was making.
People call Rey a sue because they say she "the best at everything".
He's pointing out that Han is shown to fly the falcon better.

I'll add that for a named character with more than five lines in a Star wars film, she's not that great at taking out storm troopers/ droids with a blaster.
Princesses, senators, comic relief characters, all fair as well or better.

>>49233828
People act like that was some amazing feat. It was a Super Star Destroyer, for one, which are fucking huge, especially in the engines. She was only in it for less than half a minute, still didn't fly perfectly because the Falcon took damage, and it turned out it was a really stupid idea because the TIE was able to target her in those close quarters. It was essentially a desperate move that didn't have any benefit, was only survivable due to plot armor. It only ended because after she left she pulled that trick she didn't even understand how she'd done, because she didn't know the Force was helping her out.

Not only was this pretty much what little Anakin did during the pod racing scene but if you watch their final moments before victory Anakin and Rey both pull off strikingly similar maneuvers and movements on the controls to win.

>>49218206
Jedi Mind Trick worked the first time, instead of by the third movie.

>>49234024
He's pointing out that Han is better with a fallacious statement, that the Falcon was as broken in 5 as it was in 7.

>>49234091
>The first time
Didn't watch the movie did you

>>49234091
but her mind trick didn't work until her third or fourth try. Luke, when we first see him use it, did work the first time.

>>49234123
I think there is something to be said about their upbringing. Luke was raised by Uncle Owen who didn't want him following in his father's footsteps. This was to the point that Luke could parrot Owen's reasons not to get involved. He has trouble believing what the Force is capable of to the extent that Yoda has to prove to him by lifting his X-Wing out of a swamp.

Rey apparently grew up with stories of the Jedi and doesn't believe at first until Han tells her it's true, all of it. Unlike Luke early on she has zero reasons to subconsciously hold herself back with the Force, no hangups getting in the way. Her problem, instead, is just holding herself back from anything that leads her away from Jakku. The Force does freak her out at first but once she only has it to rely on she doesn't do too badly, at least in a pinch. It doesn't always work right away and she still ends up running and hiding more than relying on it if she has other options SUCH AS running and hiding.

I remember when the Lightsaber came to her hand after Finn was wounded she seemed surprised as hell and really didn't seem very keen at all. It certainly doesn't go well for her at first. Finn did a lot better, she just ends up running. Hell, if Kylo Ren hadn't mentioned the Force to her she wouldn't have done what Maz told her to do and listen for it and trust in it.

>>49234118
She fucks up even when the engine doesn't give out.

>>49234270
She doesn't fuck up though, the ship is clearly failing on it's own. Even Han would have serious issues. The ship was not flying well.
If she was such a bad pilot that she kept falling into the sand, than she's too shity of a pilot to pull of any of those tight turns,

>>49230608
>And it was literally her first time flying ever. Even luke had the excuse of beggar's canyon for his death star run.
Because piloting a shitty glider thing is the same as piloting a top-of-the-line military aircraft. Luke was some bumpkin from a flyover state suddenly taking up an F-22 and outflying experienced combat pilots.

He's no less a Mary Sue than Rey.

>>49234481
The whole thing was flying by the skin of her teeth. The Falcon scraped and slide across wrecks and smashed into things but never actually outright wrecked itself, because otherwise it would have been a much shorter movie. More plot armor. If you need an in-universe explanation then it was the will of the Force. Some people might call that a Mary Sue, sure, but no less than Anakin's pod racing.

For some reason to this day people still think that was Rey's first flight ever when she's actually flown before and says so. It's easy enough to miss since it's after they leave Jakku and both she and Finn are excited and talking over each other. That's just what made it into the movie. In the background material she has a salvaged flight simulator in her AT-AT home that she basically uses as a video game console.

I think it's safe to say this was, if not her first time flying the Falcon, definitely her first time being chased by people shooting at her. She certainly wasn't perfect but they lived to tell another day, and really that's what's so baffling about people being upset. They're pissed she didn't crash and kill them all?

File: rey is top gun.jpg (125KB, 972x521px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 972x521px

I have no idea why everything thinks this was Rey's first time flying.

>>49227219
You missed that Luke is the totally original character of a man named "Lucas"

>>49234635
It's also stated in the lead-up novels to the movie that she spends all her free time either repairing stuff or in flight simulators she built/repaired, not that anyone read those.

>>49235073
I really don't think that makes her characterization in TFA any better.

Really, a lot of Rey's characterization issues could've been solved with an extra half hour. Justifications thrown in like the pic in >>49234635 are very flimsy and tend to be symptomatic of a writer's pet situation. Some deeper dialogue than a throwaway line that a lot of people missed would've gone some way to making her seem less silly.

Honestly, I would've been mostly fine with her if she had simply not won her duel with Ren. Even a tie would've been good. It's just no fun having the hero of the story already being confirmed for best force-user when they should be only one third of the way through their journey.

>>49235211
Rey having flown before is no more or less flimsy than Luke having flown before he went up against the Death Star.

Luke flew a helluva lot better than she did, but they were in rather different ships.

>>49235211
>Honestly, I would've been mostly fine with her if she had simply not won her duel with Ren.
motherfucker was deeply emotionally fucked up and had been shot so bad he had to use his will and the pain to stay on his feet.
You are reminded of this twice in the scene.

She manages to defeat an emotionally distraught man dying from his wounds. Why does this upset you?

>>49235211
The thing is we know Ren's training isn't complete. We also know that despite being powerful he has shit self-control. Not just stabbing terminals but the very moment Rey manages to push back from his mental interrogation he freaks out and runs directly to Daddy Snoke to tattle that she's being mean to him. Vader sure as shit wouldn't have done that, but this is the point people miss. They keep expecting him to be Vader 2.0, and he WANTS to be Vader 2.0, but when all is said and done he is certainly not even Vader 1.0 and sure as shit isn't any kind of improvement on the original.

>>49235485
Kylo Ren was also wounded prior to that fight. Even Finn scored a hit on him, and I don't think we're going to say that TR-8R is superior to Kylo Ren. Or maybe he is. Obviously Snoke chose the wrong leader of the Knights of Ren.