/wg/ - Weaver Dice/Worm General #2: Cauldron Did Nothing Wrong Edition

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I know pic related was a Cauldron cape but what type of trigger event could he potentially need to experience if he was a natural trigger with the same powers?

>>49078318
well, I hate Doctor Mother more than Cauldron as a whole, because Doctor Mother had stopped realizing that what she was doing could be seen as wrong.
While I understand that a level of emotional distance was required for what they were doing, she'd forgotten that there is a problem and a danger in having too much emotional distance.
I understand her, but I still hate her.

>>49078408
>In the end the best humanity managed against Scion was Eidolon, who was a Cauldron cape.
and was defeated in about 10 seconds using 4 words.

>And they only managed to actually win by convincing Scion to commit sudoku, which is so unlikely that it seems unfair to criticise Cauldron for not coming up with that idea and depending on it alone.
actually I do blame Cauldron for not considering Scions mental state at all.
Other human beings, not connected to Cauldron, talking to Scion and considering his mind resulted in Scion's turning being delayed, and then being vastly shortened.
If they'ed even considered that idea, they could have had more control, or at least ability to predict, when Scion would turn. Which would have helped their plan immensely.

Forgetting about emotions beyond causing stress to produce triggers was Cauldron biggest flaw.

>>49078478
He's basically a Thinker, and his powers let him explore multiple options at once, so I'd say that his (hypothetical) trigger involved being confronted with multiple options and being unable to choose.
Maybe something like a disaster scenario where he has to choose between saving two things/people important to him? Probably not directly threatening to him personally, hence no shaker/striker/brute powers.
Would fulfil the irony requirement by allowing him to save both things/people but only in different timelines, and having to drop one of the timelines in order to use his power again, so basically being useless for the actual trigger situation.

>>49078546
TBPH, it's a bit left-field that a giant pan-dimensional, genocidal, alien space whale is susceptible to bullying. Why would they expect he had human emotions? As far as they know, he'd said literally one word in the last 30 years, and didn't seem to have any desire to socialize.

>>49078382
>Cauldron Did Nothing Wrong Edition

You actually did it, the madman.

In the interest of keeping this actually /tg/ related, is Weaver Dice any good as a system?

>>49078660
it's not exactly human emotion.
And it's not left field in this specific instance. It's not just any multi (I reject the pan for my own reasons) dimensional alien.
It's this specific one that relies on having another, and we know it had this connection and was basically wondering around dumb without it. And after he goes crazy we know he has some sort of emotion, because he's now killing because he LIKES it not because of some intellectual plan.
We know he's susceptible to emotional manipulation, because Jack did it, and we know he had an intense and long term connection to the other dead entity. Knowing those two things, it's not actually that out of left field that we could be hurt emotionally using the memory of his dead mate.

>>49078382
>Cauldron Did Nothing Wrong Edition
BUT THEY CERTAINLY DID IT STUPID

>>49078660
> and didn't seem to have any desire to socialize.
he kept going back to and listening to one guy.
Then when that guy passed off the role, listening to the girl he chose as his successor.
Now, how no one, especially Cauldron, figured that shit out, is a good question.

>>49078748
>We know he's susceptible to emotional manipulation, because Jack did it,

We know what Jack did because we read his chapter.

Unless Cauldron has a cape that lets them peer through the fourth wall, they have absolutely no fucking idea what Jack, or more specifically, Jack's shard did to Scion to set him off.

Also, the entities literally are pandimensional, per WoG.

>>49078774
Blind spot? How exactly were they going to find that one hepitits infested bum in London anyway? What would have led them there?
>>49078748
So, post Jack-manipulation they know it's possible, when it's already basically too late and they're in panic mode. Great.

Plus, how can they be sure that Jack did mundane manipulation and not some super-powered shenanigans?

The exact specifics of how much Scion relied on the other to function aren't really something that Cauldron knows (or can know) it's something we know on a meta-level, but not something they had any means of figuring out.

>>49078660
>>49078748

Also it takes the whole bullying theme full circle. Wildbow used sci-fi writer scaling for endbringers and Scion; WoG says that Parian could have legit taken down an endbringer iirc, and maybe Flechette could have done something against Scion, but that's about it.

>>49078854

Parian could have stalled Behemoth, specifically Behemoth, but not killed him.

>>49078714
From what I've seen, it's fun as fuck, pure beautiful chaos in combat, not a big clusterfuck of math either, and coming up with ingenious ways to use your power is one of the best parts.

Have a Trigger:
10, you were Ten years old today, your parents were even throwing a party this time, it should be great! But Nobody came. You invited your whole 4th grade class, and no one came. It hurt a little, but what confused you was the fact that when someone DID show up, over an hour late, you didn't even know her. She was probably a little older than you, long curly blond hair, with a pretty white dress. She smiled, and greeted your parents behind you. You turned around and saw shock and horror, you didn't understand, what was wrong with this girl?
She had friends, and you didn't like them one bit, hulking men that seemed to be half-rotting came through the door, gently pushing you aside.
The next thing you knew, there were screams from your parents, and something red wet and sticky was all over you, it looked a bit like ketchup, but it wasn't, you looked up and saw the girl, still smiling, looking down at you.
"Hi, I'm bonesaw, wanna be my friend?"
Trigger.

>>49078818
>Also, the entities literally are pandimensional, per WoG.
and Wildbow gets some concepts very wrong, and I choose to ignore them.
As someone who actually knows statistics, it's the only way to get through the Dinah chapters without screaming.

>>49078912
Wildbow can't grok numbers.
He has literal dyscalculia

>>49078943
that explains a lot about Weaver Dice

>>49078896
ehh Master/Trump elements, but i'm drawing a blank for anything interesting.

Also, this seems like a pointless trigger since you're basically 100% guaranteed not to survive it, no matter what.

Plus, why, exactly, would Bonesaw do that? It's a bit outside her MO - party crashing is not something a Good Girl would do.

>>49078896
>Trigger.
Hmm. Either a bud from Bonesaw, in which case a Bio-Tinker power of some sort, or a Master/Stranger/Breaker variant due to the combination of unwelcome lack-of-attention from classmates and unwelcome attention from Bonesaw.

If the former, then I'd go for something more focused on manipulating dead bodies than live ones - more Dr Frankenstein than anything, with practical applications in zombie-making and the like.

If the latter then... there's lots of possibilities, but maybe a Master effect similar to Nice Guy's, given the focus on friends? Limited in range by your ability to perceive them, so that you can target a specific person you can see and they become your friend, but only so long as you can see them. Maybe limited in number, but perhaps not - the limitation of having to keep your eye on them is a big limitation anyway, especially as they just become your friend, not a fanatic follower. Effectively a much weaker version of Nice Guy's power, but more flexible in some ways.

>>49078912
>As someone who actually knows statistics, it's the only way to get through the Dinah chapters without screaming.
Out of interest, what do you find so wrong about Dinah's probabilities? The only thing I can think of that would be annoying is absolute certainty values, but I can't remember any of those being mentioned.

>>49079181
>Master/Stranger/Breaker variant
Meant Master/Stranger/Trum, given Bonesaw's a cape. Still not sure how Breaker's get triggered anyway...

>>49079208
Breakers are supposed to be by "hard to define" stress.
If you find yourself going "hmm, this could be a mover or a brute, or a shaker, or a blaster..." it's probably actually a breaker.

I'd say Emma in the Alley could very well be a breaker-trigger.

>>49079278
Ah, I see. I always took the "hard to define" line to mean that there was a specific commonality between breaker triggers that was hard to describe, not that breakers are made by hard-to-determine trigger events.

In which case most trigger events can probably be classified as breaker triggers, depending on your tolerance levels. I've always thought Taylor's trigger could have been a shaker (due to the locker) or stranger (due to the bullies' attention) power rather than the canonical master power - could have made a breaker variant also.

Here's a trigger.

You are 20 years old. Your life is nice and college is going great, up until you fall down a flight of stairs rushing to psychology class and land on your head. You wake up a week later to discover your little fuck up caused moderate to severe damage over your entire frontal lobe. Your personality is destroyed. Before you were calm and calculated in every move you're now restless, constantly on edge, and cannot resist indulgences of the flesh. Your academic career quickly shatters and the group of close friends you've had throughout college abandon the new you. Unable to perform in any decent way towards your dream job you are forced to take up a shitty job at a butcher. From then onward you cannot look to family or former friends without feeling the crushing depression of how quickly your life took a nose dive into the shitter. One night while walking home you get mugged, stabbed, and left to bleed out leaning against a dumpster. The crushing realization of what you've become and that you're about to die causes you to trigger.
Excuse the shit writing.

>>49079588
There's always a lot of overlap between Master and Stranger - that's deliberate, and why it's called "Master/Strange isolation" a lot of "stranger" abilities work in a "master" fashion (Imp, Nice Guy) for example.
Taylor gets a Master power instead of a stranger one because what really hurts isn't the bullying, it's the betrayal, it's who's doing the bullying.
The reason she isn't a shaker is because the environmental hazard of the locker, while present, is incidental to the stress, it doesn't really factor into her psyche.

Similarly, she has aspects of Thinker (and she does get a thinker sub-power) since it's a long running issue culminating in a crisis point, and it's also got elements of Tinker (long running problem with no solution)
But she doesn't trigger as a Tinker because she isn't trying to solve her problem - she just suffers through it.

I wonder how would superhero teams of other settings (Avengers, Justice League) fare in the Worm universe.

>>49079839
Pretty fucking well considering that usually those guys have 0 mental trauma associated with their power and nearly 0 drawbacks.

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>>49079859
>0 mental trauma associated with their power

>>49079839
most other settings have far higher powerlevels than worm.
Powers in worm include:

Being able to shoot a gout of fire out of your mouth - but not being even slightly resistant to fire.
Being able to throw blasts that hit with the force of softballs and occasionally being able to make people cry
Excreting super LSD, constantly.
And a guy who gets stronger the fatter he is, but not really that strong, like, not even SpiderMan levels. Oh, and just strength.

>>49079896
He doesn't have a power.

>>49079927
They also include a dude that destroyed the British Isles in an instant, can travel through dimensions and if pressed can hit an "I win" button.

>>49079996
But he was the BBEG!

>>49079996
That's like comparing Spiderman to Master Order

>>49079966
Thinker tinker stranger base, literally everything with prep time.

>>49079839

Siberian would be literally the only Worm hero who could plausibly threaten the classic JL lineup, and even then they'd probably figure out the gimmick pretty quick. Maybe Grey Boy too, I guess.

>>49079927
You're kinda cherrypicking there. Yeah, there are some really weak parahumans, but there's weak superhumans in Marvel and DC as well. If you're going to compare the top-hitter of DC or Marvel to anyone in Worm, it should be to the top-tier capes - the Triumvirate, Glaistig Uaine, the best of the Protectorate and the Guild and so on.

>>49079839
I think they would do pretty well for themselves - they're mentally stable as >>49079859 says, and they have some impressive hitters. The problem, as always, is when/where you take your power sample from - are we talking the Superman who can punch reality so hard it shatters, or a more reasonable variant? Is the Hulk literally unstoppable by any means, or is he a top-tier brute without much else going? Without defining the powers (and limits thereof) of the comics characters, there's no way to provide a reasonable answer.

>>49080076
Grey Boy is too slow and short ranged to really get any of them, maybe one of the chumps like aqua man or green arrow.
Any of the Tri could threaten some of the members of the JL individually, none could touch soops, unless Eidolon can replicate kryptonite radiation, though I guess Sibby could probably hurt him, OFC, he'd probably hear manton's heartbeat from space or some similar bullshit.

>>49080076
Panacea, with plagues and surprise mindrape? Meet Supes, shake his hand, suddenly he's fanatically loyal to her.

>>49079648
Longstanding mental trauma and a immediate threat of bleeding out/mugging. Is that a breaker/stranger class or something?

>>49080173
I actually don't know if it would work on Supes, her power takes a while to work, on the scale of 10s of seconds to minutes depending on what she's doing. Supes is a guy who can react so quickly as to dodge lasers.

>>49080173
That is, if Supes doesn't somehow detect what she's doing and immediately blasts her.
Mind-controlling Superman has been done before and he developed countermeasures. Bio-controlling him, however, is new if I recall.

And apparently the mindrape can be fought against. Glory Girl could.

>>49080176
I'd do a brute power - since the timing of the trigger is post traumatic injury with deep tissue damage, which, by WoG, is how you get a regeneration type power - a regeneration power that can't heal his own brain.

Speaking of characters irrationally hated, I really hope Panacea unfucks Glory Girl in Worm II. Victoria did not deserve that ending. Probably the most horrifying thing in Worm.

>>49080288
>a regeneration power that can't heal his own brain.
It would heal his brain, but it would also end up erasing the memories in that section of his brain. Which is worse; staying a wreck of a person or going through ANOTHER personality-shattering experience?

>>49080323
>Most horrifying thing in worm
What about when gray boy traps people in infinite time loops when they're experiencing an agonizing pain or listening to a loved one scream on re-wind for the rest of eternity?

>>49080362

That's also up there. 2

So has anyone been able to run even a single session of weaver dice, even if it's a 1 on 1?

>>49080435
except that if Panacea wanted to kill the world she could do it easily

like STUPID easily...

a hemorrhagic fever with a 6 month virulence and incubation period, communicable to all vertebrates.

6 months after releasing that in a major city airport and the human race....DIES, blood everywhere.

shortly after that all the non-biologic entities die, or kill eachother and people like the slaughterhouse 9 find themselves outdone forever never able to one-up Panacea.

and the fleshy ones eventually die of starvation despite Bonesaws best efforts.

>>49080579

Yeah, but she didn't do that, so it wasn't the most horrifying thing in Worm.

Panacea absolutely should not be allowed to walk free, though I suppose Riley can counterweight her now if the worst occurs.

>>49078770
This, they make the Imperium look like a paragon of logic.

>>49080678

What did they do that was illogical?

>>49080670
no but she has the potential to do it.

she could play Plague Inc. with the whole world, with infinite DNA points...

>>49078774
>>Now, how no one, especially Cauldron, figured that shit out, is a good question.
Powers have blindspots around Scion, and Scion isn't actually trackable with technology, so...

>>49078896
It's a terrible trigger.

The reason I hate Cauldron is that they essentially justify their disregard for common ethical constraints with "Trust us, we know what we are doing, even if it goes against conventional morality." They plan to manufacture ammunition for humanity's war against Scion, but every round they make is a blank due to the fact that Scion is immune to powers. When you claim your evil action is necessary for the Greater Good and it later turns out to have been unnecessary the wheels of your argument come off.

>>49081131
>Scion is immune to powers
They didn't know that and had no way to know until Scion became an active hostile.

>>49081131
They don't justify shit though. They did their best to stay hidden while providing powers.

>>49081131
>Scion is immune to powers
He wasn't though.

>>49081131
>and it later turns out to have been unnecessary

Doormaker and Clairvoyant were both unambiguously vital, Oliver arguably waa as well, and a very strong argument can be made that without Coil, Taylor would never have become Khepri and saved the world.

Cauldron's plan to cause as many natural and artificial triggers as possible actually did work, because it produced Taylor and the unique combination of supporting capes necessary for her to vanquish Scion.

>>49080826
>Why the FUCK does Cauldron tattoo their symbol on case 53s before releasing them. Why the FUCK does Contessa let people see her when she grabs pretender instead of, I dunno, fucking doormakering him at any point any time.
>Why don't they just doormaker a bomb on Jack Slash. Herp derp 14 years humanity will be weaker.
>Ok, if humanity REALLY IS getting weaker over time thanks to the endbringers, why not start a fight immediately? But, if they can't even pull one over on the endbringers, how the fuck do they expect to PTV on Scion?
>Wait wait wait it gets better.
>Cauldron is interdimensional. Hell, pretty sure Contessa didn't even come to Earth Bet.
>WHY ARE THEY FOCUSING ALL THEIR RESOURCES ON EARTH BET.
>Oh capes are getting ganked left and right by Endbringers? WHY NOT DROP THEM OFF ON ONE OF THE PLANETS WITHOUT ENDBRINGERS. Why not teleport all the capes off Earth Bet. Like, why even give a shit about saving any of Earth Bet from the Endbringers? Earth Bet is one world and Cauldron hemorrhages resources preserving it... for what? Why? We're never told.
>Why is there any visible Cauldron activity AT ALL on Earth Bet? Why is Cauldron experimenting with social models and the protectorate and all that on Earth Bet? Surely they could do that on ANY OTHER FUCKING PLANET! The random Blue Woman cape empress person conquered her planet and she's not even interdimensional godtier hacks mode!
>Like, for real, doesn't it seem a bit fucking odd that Cauldron is doing any activity on the ONE PLANET IN THE ENTIRE SPECTRUM OF DIMENSIONS where Scion is active and there are Endbringers? Like, what if he noticed their shenanigans? Wouldn't that be, you know, bad? >Why are they dumping the case-53s (GREAT JOB WIPING THEIR MEMORIES - DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE FUCKING SYMBOL YOU TATTOOED ON THEM THO, SURE NOBODY WILL NOTICE) on Earth Bet instead of elsewhere.

>Cont.

>>49079181
>Out of interest, what do you find so wrong about Dinah's probabilities? The only thing I can think of that would be annoying is absolute certainty values, but I can't remember any of those being mentioned.
It's what those numbers mean.
See, there are various interpretations of statistical numbers, which one correctly applies differs from case to case.

Dinah seems to be giving a 'population statistic', because she sees all possible universes and gives the percentage of that population that fit the question.

The problem is that population statistics aren't "chances of x happening". The closest when you do something like "if the population of the classroom is 50% female, then if you pick a person AT RANDOM you have a 50% chance of it being female".

But they lay out that the different possible futures aren't random. When she say there is a "30% chance that we survive", she can look in and see what's different about those universes than the ones where they die.

So a population statistic cannot be used as a proxy for a likelyhood statistic.
When you mix those two types improperly you get nonsense.

>>49081131
>that Scion is immune to powers.

He's literally not. He just has PtV and a huge amount of body mass to absorb damage with.

>>49081131
>every round they make is a blank due to the fact that Scion is immune to powers.
But this is pure, unmitigated bullshit. He isn't immune to powers (Hello, Foil) He can simply quickly adapt his defenses, borg shield style - so, as it turns out you need a ton of different ways to attack him, good thing Cauldron maximized the number of capes, and thereby offensive powers. Plus some of the powers they created that weren't offensive were vital to the fight, they couldn't have known which ahead of time, because they couldn't see that future.

>>49080579
>like STUPID easily...
it's worse than that, it's hard for her to not do it.
When she mindfucked Glory Girl it was because she slipped up for a second.
She knew doing that was wrong, but part of her wanted it, so she avoided doing things that would tempt her. That's a big part of why she never worked on brains.

She needs to not design microbes, because if she does and gets angry and slips, that's all it takes for a horrible disease to spill out.

>>49081323
>ignorance, the post

>>49081323
>Why is Cauldron fucking bothering to make legal contracts with dudes that they sell powers to? >Why? What possible purpose could that serve? >So they don't get sued? So they can go to the court of ultradimensional appeals if someone tries to renege?!
>Listen, the idiot ball cauldron is holding is so massive it could outweigh the black hole at the center of our galaxy and that's before you consider that they're supposed to be literally infallible with their plans due to Path to Victory.
>Supposedly Cauldron has all these fucking plans and contingencies but they all seem to suck and then Skitter has to step up and save the fucking day. So either those sucky plans really were exactly what they seemed like: terrible ideas, or they were some Xanatos level bullshit to enable Weaver to save the day but again that can't be true because of Contessa's interlude.
>Like holy shit take Mantellum. He no-sells Contessa.
>He's a case 53.
>So that means, that at some point, Cauldron made a cape that could no-sell their ONE BIG ASSET, and maybe even Scion's precog, and what did they do? They tattooed him, mindwiped him (HOW, DOESN'T HE CANCEL POWERS NEAR HIM? HOW DID THEIR MINDWIPE GUY TOUCH HIM WHILE STILL HAVING POWERS), and just LET HIM GO?! Also, they let him go on Earth Bet instead of anywhere else because HA HA why not. They don't think to, I dunno, fucking, recruit him? Kill him? KEEP ANY TABS ON HIM?!
>Like, what was the conversation there?
>"Oh hey Contessa what's your power say about the abilities of this freaky crab dude we made."
>"Nothing, can't see him."
>"What, really? Like, at all?"
>"Yep."
>"So, like, this crab dude is either an existential threat to cauldron or the solution we've been waiting for all this time?"
>"Yeah, pretty much. Anyway, mind wipe him and dump him in Connecticut."
>"Wait - what?"
>"Did I fucking stutter?"
>Worm's plotting is generally not that terrible by the standards of the superhero genre, but everything Cauldron did was just dumb.

Weaver Dice isn't even a playable RPG. It's some homebrew (mostly on chargen) you stack onto another system.

Play Wild Talents or Mutants and Masterminds

>>49081323
>Hell, pretty sure Contessa didn't even come to Earth Bet.

Do you mean "from"?

I can't address all of these right now (on mobile) but they focus on Earth Bet because that's where Scion is, as well as just about every natural trigger.

>>49081391
>ignorance 2, electric boogaloo

>>49081384
>ignorance, the post

>>49081402
This general is mostly about the setting.

>>49081413
>>49081414

He has semi-valid points at least about Mantellum and the tattoos, but the rest is nonsense.

Most likely Contessa just wasn't around for Mantellum, anyways. She can't be there for every single trigger. She's a very busy woman.

>>49081433
>This general is mostly about the setting

Great way to get it deleted.

>>49081330
Also, even if we take Dinah's power to be a likelihood statistic (which still has several complex interpretations), Coil repeatedly displays typical human biases to correctly interpreting small but not negligible chances.

If some tells use that there is a 10% chance of something failing, people typically dismiss it unless the outcome of failure is too high in which case we'll treat it as if they said 100% chance.
But you need to consider more than just how bad the outcome might be when dealing with how to interpret small but non-negligible chances. Including frequency, causal structure, and statistical form.

I don't care what the author says. Do you have an epub/PDF version of Worm?

>>49081448
The tatoos had dots on them that functioned like bar codes. Also, they wanted to distinguish their case 53s from ones made from stolen vials and naturally monstrous capes.

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>>49081460
wow, someone's salty...

>>49081323
*sigh*
You either can't read, didn't read, or can't think.
Oh well, enjoy using up that oxygen.

>>49078382
>>>lit

>>49081391
>>Why is Cauldron fucking bothering to make legal contracts with dudes that they sell powers to? >Why? What possible purpose could that serve? >So they don't get sued? So they can go to the court of ultradimensional appeals if someone tries to renege?!
Well, I'll handle this one if nothing else. The contract is there as a threat. It's proof that said individual did buy their powers. It's there so that, in the event that cauldron is dragged into the light, cauldron has leverage over their customers. As if they don't play ball, cauldron can leak the details. And given how shady the idea of buying powers was, even without the human experimentation, this is the sort of thing that would severely damage a capes reputation and credibility.
They cheated. They went the easy route. They don't understand what triggers are like. They didn't earn their powers. What favours have they performed for cauldron? Etc etc

>>49081529
Also internal records. They have many irons in many fires, like all the fires, all of them, and they need ways to keep track.

>>49081512

I love Worm, anon. I'm simply observing that having a thread dedicated to discussing the book, not the game, will end up with the thread getting deleted.

It's a shame that the mods delete these threads on /co/, as it's very difficult to get one off the ground on /lit/.

>>49081562
yeah, but here, we can discuss settings.

it's in the rules
we can do this here.

that just means the salt in you is from tears of a different flavor
tears of physical pain taste best!

On the topic of the game, if one focuses on the power they want, then try and make a trigger for it, they're doing it wrong, right?

>>49081514
>I can't actually respond to the criticism and will just call them dumb.

>>49081612
Probably
But since that trigger gets discussed by all the other players they will probably wind up with something different from what they wanted.

>>49081612
Correct.
Plus, it won't work. No matter how "perfectly" you craft a trigger, you never get to come up with your own powers, as such, the powers that arise will stem from other's interpretations, which will never line up exactly with your own. Any trigger that's interpreted exactly the same way by everyone is a boring trigger.
Really, you should probably play by everyone writing down a trigger, then throwing it in a hat and drawing them out one at a time.

>>49081640

>I'll respond to this post instead of the ones blowing me out

>>49081612

Wildbow's intent is that you basically don't get to pick your power.

Which, honestly, always struck me as a bit daft - he seemed to prize iron adherence to the themes of Worm over creating a game that's actually fun for the players.

>>49081779
well people did want him to make a mage like the one Weaver does in the story.
But that game was clearly intended to illustrate the nature of the world to children, not to be a fun game to play.

So it's not daft, it's what people asked for.

>>49081779
Exploring the ways to use a power you didn't choose and how it affects the character can be incredibly interesting.

It just isn't comfortable.

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>>49081779
Actually, I find that getting the group to help you with a randomly selected trigger, and generating your powers to be pretty cool. Also, a good group bonding experience, and really lets you get into your characters head.

>>49081855
>Dad, why are you hurting me?
>ENDBRINGER FUCKING SHITS

>>49081958

Eidolon had a hard life.

>>49081612
It's badwrongfun if you choose.

>>49081779
Oh, it is loads of fun.

>>49081323
I guess I'll bite...

>>Why the FUCK does Cauldron tattoo their symbol on case 53s before releasing them.
Probably to better keep track of them, and identify them when they popped up. Seems smart to keep a tab on the people whose memories you stole. Remember, no one knows what the symbol means - it's not like it's gonna tell anyone that Cauldron's behind it all.

>>Why the FUCK does Contessa let people see her when she grabs pretender instead of, I dunno, fucking doormakering him at any point any time.
What was the downside of doing it as she did? I mean, I don't remember it leading to anything that Contessa wouldn't want, and her power literally lets her determine how best to do stuff - presumably there were no bad side-effects of letting herself be seen, and possibly some good ones.

>>Ok, if humanity REALLY IS getting weaker over time thanks to the endbringers, why not start a fight immediately? But, if they can't even pull one over on the endbringers, how the fuck do they expect to PTV on Scion?
My understanding is that humanity was getting stronger prior to the story beginning, and would get weaker sometime in the next 10 years. We don't know that the decline has been going on for long, or even that it's started yet, and there's a lot to be said for an opponent that handily unites all capes on Earth against him. Starting a fight unilaterally can be a worse outcome than letting the enemy do so - what do you think would happen if the Triumvirate attacks Scion without him being a clear threat to Earth? Would the rest of the capes unite behind them? I think not. Better to let the fight start in a way that instantly unites all capes against the enemy. And this is the plan that Number Man and Contessa approve of - I don't really see them making simplistic mistakes like you seem to suggest. Have you considered that maybe you aren't omniscient?

cont.

>>49082764, >>49081323
>>WHY ARE THEY FOCUSING ALL THEIR RESOURCES ON EARTH BET.
Because that's where Scion is, and where almost all the natural Parahumans are. It's the best place to encourage natural triggers, and thus the most important place to shape socially - hence the PRT and Protectorate being established there, rather than on Aleph.

>>Oh capes are getting ganked left and right by Endbringers? WHY NOT DROP THEM OFF ON ONE OF THE PLANETS WITHOUT ENDBRINGERS. Why not teleport all the capes off Earth Bet. Like, why even give a shit about saving any of Earth Bet from the Endbringers? Earth Bet is one world and Cauldron hemorrhages resources preserving it... for what? Why? We're never told.
Earth Bet is important, because it's the world where Scion is running around and where (almost) all the parahumans are. Abducting all parahumans from Bet is stupendously likely to gain Scions attention, which they don't want. That's the real big reason. Also, we already know that Cauldron goes to significant effort to keep potentially valuable capes alive, going so far as to protect specific members of the S9 despite the deaths they cause. It seems likely that they attempt to preserve capes who might be useful in the final battle, and ignore capes whose powers are useless against Scion.

cont.

>>49081323
>>Why is there any visible Cauldron activity AT ALL on Earth Bet? Why is Cauldron experimenting with social models and the protectorate and all that on Earth Bet? Surely they could do that on ANY OTHER FUCKING PLANET! The random Blue Woman cape empress person conquered her planet and she's not even interdimensional godtier hacks mode!
Again, Bet is the one with the fuckton of capes - it's the one that they want to turn into a pressure cooker to produce the greatest number of capes. They could try it somewhere else, like Aleph, but that'll just bring them from 10 capes to 20 - on Bet they can be sure that their investment into, say, the Protectorate and PRT system will see a great many new capes that wouldn't trigger otherwise.

>Why are they dumping the case-53s (GREAT JOB WIPING THEIR MEMORIES - DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE FUCKING SYMBOL YOU TATTOOED ON THEM THO, SURE NOBODY WILL NOTICE) on Earth Bet instead of elsewhere.
This is a valid question. It's probably to continue their "make Bet a parahuman pressure cooker" plan, so it's not exactly meaningless, but still... Though the only real threat from that is Scion noticing - Cauldron is a hidden conspiracy, effectively controls the government and other organisations on Bet, and has precog able to tell if they're about to be uncovered. Echidna was a bit of a wild card, and even so it took 2 years and Golden Morning before the case-53's were able to be an actual issue to Cauldron.

cont.

Curious, anyone got some trigger events they want to share? Real or fake?

>>49082986,>>49082791
>>49081391
>>Why is Cauldron fucking bothering to make legal contracts with dudes that they sell powers to?
So their customers know that Cauldron isn't fucking around. I mean, obviously Cauldron isn't going to actually care about the contracts, but the customers will, and making sure that their customers stick to the deal is probably worth printing out a few contracts and scribbling their signature on them. Again, it seems dumb to suggest that it was completely pointless, given the powers that Cauldron has - it must have been useful, otherwise PtV wouldn't have called for it. You might not see the use, but maybe that's because you don't know everything?

>>Supposedly Cauldron has all these fucking plans and contingencies but they all seem to suck and then Skitter has to step up and save the fucking day.
Cauldron's plans were as follows: Create a silver bullet cape to defeat Scion. Create a bunch of capes that might possibly be silver bullets to defeat Scion. Create a bunch of capes that might take Scion down by weight of numbers if we can't find a silver bullet.

That's it. That was their plan. They don't have a good plan, because they can't predict Scion, and they can't predict triggers, so they don't know what they need to beat or how to beat it or how to get the tools that might beat it. That their plan failed is predictable - their best result at the end was Eidolon, and he got taken out with 4 words. But you ought to show that it was a stupid plan in the first place, and you haven't. That they didn't have lots of good options is obvious - what options do you think they should have taken instead?

>>Mantellum.
Yeah, I'll grant you that - it was foolish to release him into the wild, given they didn't have any way to find him again easily. Still, that's a pretty small thing, and I don't think it's enough to prove that Cauldron is stupid. Makes mistakes, sure, but that's something very different.

>>49083024
share mine last thread.

I've had a mostly fine life, except for the bears.

though if you wanted to do that you might have better luck starting an entirely separate thread for it...

>>49083024
Last thread had a whole bunch, as well as links to older archived threads on the subject.

>>49083024
I've been trying to come up with one revolving around diffusion of responsibility, the phenomenon responsible for the stories you hear about crowds of people standing around watching and even recording scenes of accidents without actually helping. People assume that someone else will. And so no one does, and the crowd does nothing as someone dies.
So some sort of accident, the player and/or someone they care about is injured, crowd does nothing of note.

>>49083024
Shared mine a few threads ago, but sure why not let other random internet strangers speculate about my personal demons - I'll even expand it a bit from last time:
So, I went to hell-level middle school. I was literally assaulted on a weekly basis, and constantly picked on/harassed. I at least had the advantage of being huge for my age, so I gave pretty good, broke my share of noses. We had 4 gangs (even a white supremacist gang) the playground was littered with used condoms and needles. Really classy establishment. I was excluded from any form of positive social interaction, and there were plenty of fake reports to the staff about how I was going to shoot up/bomb the place (they, as in all things, gave 0 shits)
Last day of school, when I was walking home, some cunt in my class ambushes me, and goes into the whole big speech about how she only harassed me because she secretly liked me and wanted me to date her. Then I hear some of her twat friends laughing behind a fence. Then she threw the first egg right into my face.
Its strange, but the fucking egging haunted me more than any of the fights, slashed bike tires, or social ostracisation ever did

>>49083402
Sounds fucking rough anon

>>49083402
that's a Trigger if I've ever heard of one
fuck dude, I feel bad for you, at least on Earth Bet people who go through bad shit have the compensation of getting super powers, but here? pfft, none of that shit happens.

>>49083678
>>49083557
I have the compensation of an income well into the six figures, and getting to watch everyone I went to middleschool with die of gang violence, contract STIs, or make my fucking coffee at Starbucks.
Do I get to shoot lasers from my hands? no, but I get a sort of justice and don't end up dying from mindfuckery fighting a giant psychic doomengine pretending to be an angel.
It's not so bad.

>>49083729
That sounds more like a Master trigger, but still.

>>49084077
Master for the bully situation, but Blaster for the egg? Would this be capable Breaker or no?

>>49084137
I was thinking master for the betrayal by the girl.

Does anyone run a Weaver's dice game on roll20? I'd like to at least try out at least ONE session before dismissing a system crafted from my favorite superhero work of writing.

>>49084745
some people run games on the weaversdice irc.

Huh. I would have thought i found these threads on /co/ but here it is. Also didnt know about the dice system.

>>49086329
/co/ doesn't allow it because it's not a comic, it's a web serial, and /lit/ is full of egotistical smartasses who say it's "not a real book" and thus it gets shitposted to death.

>>49086329
/co/ gets really pissy if people try to make threads about it over there.

>>49086329
no pretty pictures, doesn't go on /co/

it's just how it is.

>>49086329
Maybe some day we'll see Worm threads on /tv/

How the fuck does Accord work anyway?

>>49086462
Sees disorder, makes plans to fix them. He seems to have the limitations proper to a man that leads an organization with a lot of money that still has poor standing with the law, and "realistic" limitations, as he can't just pull some magical thing to fix problems.

>>49086462
like Contessa does.

he poses a problem to his shard and a solution is generated that meets the criteria.

actually Accords power acts EXACTLY how engineering works, because his plans can be perfect and carried out by others. as opposed to tinkers who don't so much solve a problem as they have a solution pre-generated by their shard for a number of situations.

tl;dr He is an Omni-subjective engineer, and tinkers aren't real engineers.

>>49086462
Super planning, plans scale up to match the difficulty of the problem.

>>49086462
He's an obsessive compulsive narcissist, obsessed with perfection. He works quite studiously with remarkable discipline and excellent time management skills.
His power works by scaling up his intelligence in proportion to the problem he poses it - his real limitation is that he can't pull information ex nihilo, so his plans can never be better than his knowledge, though he is excellent at contingencies and the xantos gambit.

>>49083279

Weaver Dice Lasuanne - By Wildbow - has a trigger that is exactly this. It's called 'White Knight.'

Im really early in so far but ive already spoiled myself unfortunately
Did anyone else get warm fuzzies from the conversation between taylor and armsmaster in chapter 1?

>>49086978
>armsmaster
mild spoilers:
oh man, you're going to hate him and then love him again

>>49081779

It's great. The powers other people think up can be amazing, too. I've seen one guy get Siberian-style invulnerability, flight and fleshhooks, but at a terrible cost.

>on Superman
I just realized he isn't particularly resistant to airborne pathogens. The Joker once subverted him with his venom.

All Panacea needs to do is get an idea of his biology and I for one welcome our new Class S threat overlord.

>>49086978
yeah...everything that happens in the series is straight up INTENSE.

the grimdark?
INTENSE
the violence?
INTENSE
the danger?
INTENSE
the warm fuzzies?
INTENSE

read it even if you have spoiled it.

>>49086978
No, but that conversation makes it confusing that people keep treating him like he's an autistic robot.

>>49087030
>and I for one welcome our new Class S threat overlord.
I'm pretty sure you're missing the word waifu in there someplace...

>>49087073
superman is a man, though
unless Panacea changed that

>>49087073
>waifuing a lesbian siscon
Probably not the best of ideas.

>>49087103
It is within her capabilities, but either way Supes is still in Panacea's control.

>>49087103
...and you think she'd let him stay that way given the opportunity?...

>>49087126
>Probably not the best of ideas.
I'd work very hard to friend-zone and companion her so as to avoid death by humanity killing disease...

>>49087162
just help her get into her sisters skort and she's all yours.

>>49087205
her FOSTER-sister's skIrt

all we need it to figure out how to let her Glory in them Holes...

>>49087243
And, again, in her defense, who isn't trying to get up her skirt? I know I would and that's not even counting the whole mind-rape-into-love thing that she may-or-may not do.

well, once Panacea turns her into Glory-Blob, she's got plenty of... yeah, nevermind

>>49087243
CARLOS YOU PIECE OF SHIT
I just now realize Carlos might very well have a very minor Master power, notice how literally EVERYONE in the room stops what they're doing, groans, and says his name without hesitation when he makes a bad pun?

>>49087286
Ms. Frizzle was where Eden ended up, trying to manipulate the only parahumans in her dimension into doing fucking anything via interesting school excursions.

>>49087286
who do you think makes the memes that WORK?

it's all secretly done by one cape...

>>49087336
>>49087318
I'm afraid, very afraid

>>49083402
Hmm checking back in, it looks like no one had any cool ideas. Oh well. Any other interesting trigger ideas?

>>49087351
it's okay, getting a meme-kill agent up and running takes a LOT of pre-programming

it took a SHIT-TON of targetted programming to get this girl I know to raise her arms above her head against her will...

>>49087558
but NOW she strips naked automatically at the sight of me holding a whip, and other fun tricks.

fun fact, Almond is the hands-down most finicky flavor to meme-code with

What would you say could be the triggers for famous superheroes if we tried to transplant them into the wormverse? What about their ratings?

I mean, Iron Man would be a Tinker, caused by the trauma of being kidnapped and forced to build weapons for his captors.

Batman's trigger is obvious, but I can't think of a rating beyond "threes on all categories".

>>49087715
See >>49080051
Rating increases the more information and resources he has access to.

>>49087715
Spidey's first trigger is Uncle Ben, second trigger is when he killed his waifu by accident. Can't remember the categories->causes bit.

>>49087817
>Spider-Man
His first and only trigger was getting bitten by the spider. Uncle Ben wasn't a trigger but a purpose.

Striker mover brute thinker tinker blaster?

>>49087795
>>49080051
I'd say a high Thinker rating, maybe Brute for his weird fighting skills and low on Trump? Some heroes are impossible to fit into the Worm categories, but it's still a fun exercise.

>>49087817
http://worm.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Classifications

File: Frozen - Anna, I have come to ravish you.png (266KB, 1000x445px) Image search: [Google]

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Shaker Blaster Master. Class S, but contained by her own need to be a good queen to her people and Anna to ravish

>>49087966
>Brute
That'd be Striker. Brute implies he has some sort of super strength or resilience or regeneration.

btw, someone needs to tweet qmjim and see if he's actually coming back for CoRC season 2

>>49088040
What would Elsa's triggers be? I mean, the obvious one is the Anna incident but she causes it with her powers so...

>>49088040

Assume Batman has 2 Ranks in every power category unless proven otherwise.

>>49087715
For Batman I'd personally have him be powered by fear, or by his reputation. The more criminals who go to sleep with nightmares of the Bat and spread gossip about him, the more powerful he gets.

Some sort of Brute/Mover+Stranger dealio, maybe with a Thinker power for identifying people's fears and how to exploit them. Not a Tinker, but would have access to Tinker-Tech inspired tools.

Danny is best dad

>>49087715
What about Wonder Woman and her tribe of Amazonians? All bred to be capes or just the important few?

>>49088140
That's not how you spell Marquis anon

>>49088140
>>49088183
Oh shit, that's tough.

>>49088066
Good question. It wasn't Anna's incident, her isolation after the incident or her parents dying as all that happened after she triggered.

Best I can do is that she's a second gen cape.
Her parents had a very minor Brute power that allowed them (and apparently only them) to survive their ship sinking, get to an island, live there for a while and have a baby before getting killed by a wild animal.

The baby has minor Brute and Mover powers. It's Tarzan.

Anna is either a very late bloomer or has a minor uncontrollable Trump power that affects Elsa's.

>>49088228
or maybe not every story fits into the 'trigger+cape' form.

Or as I like to imagine it, not every entity pair gives out powers the same way. They want to create a greater variety of results to provide more information, and while inspiring conflict is always necessary for that push for greater information, different means of power granting could produce different forms of response.

>>49086462

He's the thinker version of Lung. His power scales to meet any problem, no matter the complexity.

>>49086427

I shudder to think at what they'd do with Vista.

>>49088409
[licks lips internally]

>>49088409
>I shudder to think at what they'd do with Vista.
You know that camera effect where things seem to get closer or further, but all that changes is the field of view? That.

>>49088530

Anon, your innocence of their depraved ways is admirable, but I was referring to what the Chloe Grace Moretz foot fetishists would make of Vista's actress.

>>49088409
>what they'd do with Vista.
Replace with Windows 7, of course.

>>49088409
>I shudder to think at what they'd do with Vista.
she 18 yet?

...I'll think of no depraved things till that point...

>>49088884
Why even have a brain? What other purpose could it serve?
At she was like, 12 or 13 in 2011, so she'd be just about there.

>>49088590
CARLOS!

Anyways have a Trigger:
Mama is sick, really sick, she needs medicine, but daddy says she can't get it because the goberment won't give your mama money.
You set up a lemonade stand, but Daddy says it isn't enough. Then a stranger shows up, talks to daddy. You hear some shouts but when they come out of the room both of them look happy. Daddy says the stranger wants you to stay with him for a while, and in return he'll make Mama better! It's your hopes come true, you get to help make Mama not sick! You agree and the man takes you away.

You spend two years with the man, and you hate him. Mama always said that hate was a strong word, but the stranger deserves it. He makes you do so much work, and if it's not perfect he beats you with his belt. When he teaches you, it's about boy things, like fighting with swords and guns. You're always bruised, and your body aches all the time. It hurts worse when you go to see Daddy and Mama. The man said he'd make Mama better, but all she does is stay the same, she hasn't gotten worse, but the man lied! He always says you need more training before he makes Mama better, but you don't know what you're training for!
Today is different, the man says it's time for your final test, and if you pass, he makes Mama better at long last. He leads you to the training room and picks his weapons, you move to take your own, but he smacks your hand with his sword.
He tells you to stand in the center of the room, and wear a blindfold, you're scared, but it's for Mama!
Then he starts beating you like he's never done before, you feel bones break, and collapse, screaming in pain.
You trigger, and while you're disoriented, the man pulls you into a hug, something he's never done before.
"You did it, sweet child, you passed"

>>49088961
not enough...solidly 19 is preferred before I get the clamps, electrodes, and whips

>>49088975
That is not how you introduce children to BDSM. There are rules.

>>49089016
that's how you program a killing machine actually...

do you SSC, RACK or some mix of the 2?

>>49089039
SCC only. They're children, after all.

>>49088975
Probably some kind of brute package with a smaller side ability to detect betrayal which eventually drives you insane as your progressively crazier actions trip your betrayal detecter because no one wants anything to do with you.

>>49089087
I use RACK...but I also don't play with children.

>>49088975
>>49089104
So main-classification is Brute for obvious reasons. Classifying this as a Thinker is possible with wondering how this all happened in the first place, but that doesn't seem to be her issue. Just worrying about Mama first and foremost. Breaker sub-class?

He ain't 'gon help Mama, is he?

>>49087715
Hulk is two different stories.

One has Bruce Banner being his by the radioactive blast with ,er, Blaster and strays away from anything Brute.

The other story has Bruce Banner being signed up or taken away as a Case 53 a-la Incredible Hulk which makes things more interesting. How the hell does Cauldron hold him? I want to spoiler how, just want to be safe.

Can Hulk take an Endbringer?

>>49089433
>Can Hulk take an Endbringer?
Planetbuster Hulk might, but the planet would probably get busted in the attempt. Unless he's fighting the Simurgh, can't beat the Simurgh.

>>49089471
How cone he can't beat Simurgh? I can see Hulk being used by the Simurgh later on but I don't think all of her 'prep time' can stop PB Hulk.

>>49089433
Hulk is strong! Hulk strongest there is!

But without a power that can destroy a core he would basically just be fucking around with them and delaying them till scion shows up.

>>49089488
She'll mindfuck him into being her puppet easily because she can see the future, the Endbringers are created to be absurdly powerful; they were never meant to be destroyed in the first place.

>>49089488
>>49089489
Case 53 Hulk can never beat her. Any of them?

Has Hulk in any story every destroyed or lifted a metaphysical concept like Superman lifting infinity?

>>49089546
Well the core of the endbringers is what they really are and what needs to be destroyed for them to die and without a special power like foils you can't really damage one.

And nah hulk hasn't but it's a bit ridiculous to hold a metaphysical concept in the first place. With hulk though he doesn't have an upper limit with physical strength so the madder he gets the stronger.

>>49080141
I mean, forget Supes for a moment, can anyone in the Worm universe handle J'onn?

>>49090108
J'onn is actually a serious issue for most of the wormverse, since there isn't anyone who's really that psychic.
Now, some might be able to escape his notice (Imp, Nice Guy) if their mental tomfoolery eclipses his own, but Wildbow himself contends that J'onn is probably the single greatest weapon against the Wormverse (even Scion) in the JLA.

Have a trigger.

In your teens you were normal. Better than normal, you were popular. And as with all popular kids you went to parties. Played games, and grew closer to your friends. One particular evening though you made the choice to dare a close friend to backflip into their wealthy parents pool from the roof. You'd all had a bit to drink and they agreed. However in the attempt the slipped and cracked their head on the pool's edge on the way down. As your other friends rush to help them you stand helplessly watching them drown unconcious in the water. Knowing that in some capacity you caused their death. Then you trigger.

>>49090554
Changer/Stranger, could be something to do with water or avoiding responsibility.

>>49090554
Man, you guys are tame.

>>49090899
Show us how it's done senpai.

>>49090554
I am not 100% sure but I think for someone to trigger it doesn't just has to be "the worst day of their lives" but their life previously must have been fairly shitty aswell (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Maybe the person here didn't trigger right in that moment but after multiple months of guilt and being a social outcast as everyone around started blaming them for the death.

>>49090970
>their life [previous to the trigger event] must have been fairly shitty aswell
Not always, but almost.

>>49090970
that would be a better trigger on the whole but it doesn't have to be a shitty life it could be just one bad day but people with shitty lives are more likely to trigger.

>>49090970
Depends, people like Gallant can trigger and he's pretty well off in all respects. But most of them do to maximise the person with powers being a shitty person so they go out and fight more.

>>49091335
What would the Punisher's powers be?

Reminder that shards don't actually push people towards conflict, they only try to give people powers who are likely to go out and cause conflict.

>>49091404
punisher doesn't even have a power in universe though senpai, if he was to have one would his trigger be in his vietnam terms or his family thing?
>>49091416
shards also affect peoples personalities in way that can make them more likely to be in conflict so they kinda do,look at bonesaw and people even include folks like skitter. Uber or leet as well was sabotaged by his shard in a way that killed him because he wasn't seeking out conflict enough or gathering "useful" data so that also contradicts that in some ways.

>>49091416
It's both, m8. Pushing people towards conflict is subtle, a carrot and stick sort of deal, where the carrot is very slight upgrades of the power and the stick is getting aggressive, antsy and restless when going without conflict for too long.

This is why Miss Militia manages to be a pretty decent human being: she gets into enough fights that the shard has no reason to push her around.

>>49091416
>Reminder that shards don't actually push people towards conflict
Yes they do, subtly, but they do. Like Sophia, hers definitively made her more aggressive. Leet's was trying to kill him because it thought he was a coward. It's a combination, and pavlovian reinforcement by making their power better for a short while if they're in big trouble,

>>49091448
>Miss Militia
>decent human being
Pick one

Decent human beings don't close their eyes and walk away when their superiors are obviously breaking the code of conduct and are borderline torturing a teenaged girl that, even if she was a pain in the ass to deal with before, willfully surrendered.

>>49091488
She was VERY patriotic. And she was decent compared to most parahumans.

>>49091488
As far as the authorities are concerned, Skitter is:
1) A terrorist;
2) A traitor (as in high treason);
3) An unknown quantity who surrendered for no suitable reason out of the blue;
4) Also a criminal of no small note.

They actually were really fucking nice to her. Really. Fucking. Nice.

>>49091530
Blasphemy. Tay Tay was perfect and everyone who opposed her was scum. Scum!

>>49091759
Taylor was a paranoid control freak near incapable of actual trust, with a martyr complex so grand she decided suicide by dragon was the right way to start a hero career.

She's not a bad person, and she tries to be a good person, but she's damaged and is a lot easier to justify from the inside.

>>49091926
She was a pretty bad person desu senpai, she joined the Undersiders because she was desperate for friends but rejected joining the Wards because she thought it would have been too much like school; and then never actually tries to be a better person. Sure we get
>muh dina
and
>muh territory
but she was still part of a criminal organisiation that hurt a lot of people, and she knew that, and rejected every opportunity to leave and do better.

But I was joking in the post you replied to, because people do think that.

Here's a trigger:
You were walking to your friend's house at night. As you pass by an alley in a seedier part of town, strong hands grab you from the sidewalk and drag you into the darkness. This stranger starts beating you for no reason, calling you names, berating you for being out at night. You trigger before he gets a chance to do anything worse.
I know I'm not a great writer :P

>>49092296
Yeah it's a bit lame for a trigger event, and without any real emotional investment by the triggeree it's hard to pick a power. My guess is, having triggered so easily, they were a second gen parahuman.

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>>49091404
WALL OF TEXT INCOMING

I am only familiar with Punishers backstory from the Daredevil netflix series so I'll work from there. Also since Frank doesn't actually has any powers I'll try to do something thematically fitting which isn't too far off from what he does and how he does it.

He fought as a soldier and saw a lot of things men are not supposed to witness, as a result he developed PTSD. I'd place his actual trigger event at him witnessing his family being murdered after he returned home.

Suffering from PTSD for a prolonged time points at a Thinker power but if I read the official description for Breakers:
>Blend or ambiguous re: mental or physical lines
I also see some of that considering how he suffered both mentally and physically as a soldier.

I once read that calling PTSD episodes "flashbacks" is inaccurate, soldiers don't actually believe that they are back in the war, it's more like they feel like the war has come to get them.
That's certainly how I imagine Frank Castle felt when all he over loved was killed, the war is in full gear again and it is happening all around him.

to be continued

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>>49092519
The Thinker part takes care of everything a soldier usually has to think of on the battlefield
>where is each point of entry, what about possible exits? If the enemy comes from that direction which way do get in cover? How much ammo have I left, and how often has he shot now? Are the roofs clear?
All these things run through his head at all times and he has a hard time turning it off, in fewer words I'd describe this as super-situational awareness.

The Breaker part is an interpretation of this "the war here now" feeling. As Frank moves around the enviroment changes all around him and becomes more suitable for combat. Convenient cover appears on one spot, somewhere else an opening appears which can be used for easier movement around the battlefield etc. It also tries to change according to Franks current goal so if he wants to reach a certain place it tries to point him in that general direction.

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>>49092527 (last part)
Now for the backside, all changes encourage Frank to be more aggressive and continue fighting, the cover mentioned above is "convenient" in that it is helpful for a moment but also places him in an otherwise unfavorable position so he quickly has to figure out what to do next to which the answer usually is "be more agressive and fight your way out". Similarly the new opening will help with movement a bit but can also be used by the enemy and don't think that such an opening will ever help him escape from or evade a battle. In case his goal is to escape, even if it would be the smartest move at the moment, his power will not listen to him and he will have to figure out how to run away himself, the power only ever helps in direct confrontation or preparation for confrontation in form of creating ambush spots)

Frank is fighting an eternal war, he can not escape it and only has controll in the form of which direction to point the war at. He is exceptional at fighting multiple threats solo and made it his duty to clean the streets of everything resembling what took his family from him.

>>49092534
That's actually pretty good my dude, good work on the trigger and the power. That power is pretty unique and wormy.

>>49092527
>Breaker
You made a Shaker power, breaker is one that effects ones own body; for example how Legend turns into light.

>>49092534
This is a really cool powerset, but changing the environment is a Shaker quality. When Breakers break the natural law, it's usual a change of state of their physical form. Maybe whenever his head tells him to confront danger, his body becomes danger itself? He walks forward like a regular human but any outer force within his vicinity gets damaged? Just spitballing

>>49092593
>>49092601
Oh shit, Breakers always were in my blind spot because I kept imagining them to be a form of Changers.
>>49092601 seems like a cool actual Breaker ability though.

Does she date the nigger?

>>49092874
If you are /pol/ I am going to tell you right now that you will not like this story at all.

>>49092910
I'm not /pol/, but the story starting off with "And so the white bullied highschooler gets involved with criminals, and might end up dating a thug" doesn't have very promising things going for it.

>>49092919
Technically they don't date, it's more of a FWB/comfort situation after he gets tortured. And that only lasts a short while anyway, then they never get back together.

>>49092919
While the Undersiders are all criminals their individual degree of being criminal scum varies quite a lot, Brian is definitely on the way lower scale.

>>49092919
>I'm not /pol/
Yeah, right.

>>49092968
>Ooga boogas
>Low end of the crime scale
Anon. The story calls blacks out on being violent animals right from the beginning.

>>49092968
Brian should a have been killed off early on and the story would have been much better for it. Same with Lisa as well.

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>>49093004
I'm sure you can write a fixfic of some sort to make all these hot opinions see the light of day.

>>49093028
Nah, it's not worth the effort.

>>49093037
I'm not exactly surprised.

>>49093046
Really? Who'd have thought that.

>>49093037

Neither is reading your retarded opinions.

Here is a minute wasted that I'll never get back.

>>49093072
Meh, you've already wasted your whole life away so what's one more minute?

>>49093004

I personally think I'd have liked to see Taylor killed off, because her plot armor is stupid.

My personal theory is that the Queen Administrator shard subtly fucked with people around her. I mean, her ultimate power was controlling capes, right? Maybe her ability was undermining opposing parahumans all along, the way Jack never knew he actually had a Thinker power (and that his Thinker power was in fact his main power.)

>>49093088
At least I have quality, insightful opinions anyone can enjoy reading.

>>49093119
Wildbow says he rolled for her death at the Levi fight, but I don't believe that for a second.

>>49093119
Convenient how her actual power is so powerful, when half the appeal of the character is supposed to be her being an underdog.

>>49093121
Sure, you can just keep on thinking that if it makes you happy.
>>49093119
That would be pretty interesting too though another interesting divergence would have been if she had accidentally killed Gallant and that other cape while invading the Mayor's home.

>8% people are parahumans

Somehow this doesnt seem correct at all.

>>49093165

Yeah, not to mention that her train of thought is a bit retarded. Like, she's literally thinking:

> "I have a power that SHOULD be able to help."

Surprise surprise, she's right even though she has no reason to think so. Taylor, as a character, gets too many breaks. (It's interesting to note that most Weaver Dice games are far less forgiving, but Taylor's bug-control power is completely broken under that ruleset.)

>>49093165
Yes, she was very strong even early on despite not being able to see through her bugs. She did get hard countered by a few capes but I would have liked if that came up more often.

>>49093189
Eh, while Weaver Dice is pretty nifty for generating power ideas I'd hesitate to actually use the system since there we'r not exactly lacking for choice when it comes to superhero systems.

>>49093234

I don't know. I like it a lot. Even when incomplete, it's a solid system - the power generation is very, very good, and there's no true 'dump stat'. In Weaver Dice, a poor stat in ANYTHING can fuck you over.

The main problem with Weaver Dice is that it can't do high-powered characters very well. Eidolon, Alexandria, Legend and so on are right out. The Undersiders and the Protectorate are quite possible, however.

(At the same time, your standard flying brick package is also the most powerful one in the game.)

>>49093163
I don't know, Wildbow even described how he imagined her death scene and how the story would go on.

It was something like along the lines of:
She would have died while blasting Leviathans ass with Armsmaster laser halberd, she saves the people in the bunker but gets a lethal hit. People try reviving her and remove her mask but it doesn't work. Her identy alongside her lifestory gets out and people hail her as a hero and the school gets under fire for not having protected her enough or something like that, the school cracks under the pressure and admits that the Protectorate told them to go easy on Sophia which leads to the public losing trust in the Protectorate. The POV would then change to Gallant or any other Protectorate hero.

Actually sounds kind of interesting.

>>49089369
in my head when I wrote it the man was a minor trump with the power to detect who could potentially gain powers, he saw the child and made a deal with the dad "I fuck your child up for a few years until she gains superpowers, train her to fight, and in return I make your wife not sick"

>>49093281

The thing is that the other characters are a lot more interesting than her, because they have to face problems head-on. The thing about 'clever' ways to solve problems is that it leads to increasingly silly situations where there's always a third way.

Sometimes, the solution is just a straight-up punch-up, and you can't evade that. Having someone like Gallant or Chevalier as the main character would be a lot more interesting, especially because they'd be thrown into heavy combat while not having the tools to be imaginative about it.

>>49093281
>the school cracks under the pressure and admits that the Protectorate told them to go easy on Sophia
That never happened though, she was on probation and neither Armsmaster or Director Piggot would sanction that kind of buffoonery. And even then, people would only lose faith in the BB teams because it was a local problem. Are you sure you're remembering that right?

>>49093424
I am very sure that Wildbow said that the school was given orders from the Protectorate, if this turns out to be wrong then I probably have brain damage because this is one of the things I was always sure of. Good point with people only losing faith in the Protectorate ENE though.

>>49093533
Sounds dumb, but I don't remember either so maybe I've got brain damage.

>>49093533
P. Sure that's fannon, I don't think the PRT ever said "oh hey, be nice to this one mmmkay?"
Corruption/Bad Action by institutions doesn't even need to be that blatant, and usually isn't. It'd be sufficient if, say, the principal decided that the PRT *wanted* her to take it easy on Sophia, and did so in order to please them. The Principal is portrayed as an awful scum scuker in fannon, but really, she has a school full of teenagers who are in gangs and literally trying to knife each other, backed up by nazis that can turn your car into an iron maiden with you in it, and a goddamn rage dragon. Does she really have time to deal with some white girl getting slapped around a bit?

>>49079966
His power *is* mental trauma. His obsession with delivering justice at any cost. That and piles of money.

>>49094050
Principal Blackwell was only doing the wrong things for the right reasons.

>>49094203
I don't even know if it's that clear cut.
We don't get any time in her head-space, and we only ever see her through the eyes of Worlds Most Reliable Narrator (tm) Taylor. How much does she really know what's going on? How much else is on her plate? Does she really even have time? Is she hoping that the PRT will stick more Wards in Winslow if the whole Shadow thing goes well, thereby helping bring it stability? We don't know, we never get to, all we get is persecution-complex Tay-Tay raving about how she knows that they all know and are all totally in on it. Taylor clearly has PPD, why would they take her seriously?

>>49094274
Wildbow said in a forum post somewhere that the school was told to go easy on Shadow. It will take me some time to find it though. Wildbow says lots of things.

>>49093281

Killing Taylor would have been the height of idiocy. You spend seven arcs setting her up, and then kill her on account of a dice roll and jump over to some minor character, who might die themselves a few arcs later?

I probably would've stopped reading.

So assuming two people are hard to kill, one because he has super durability and the other because they get hurt like normal but grow back damaged flesh insanely quick, both would be classified as brutes right?

>>49094678
Yes, the classification system is broad like that.
With brutes the result at least is the same, it gets stupid with Masters where someone like Bitch and someone like Regent are completely different but still considered the same.

>>49094678
Yeah, the system is meant to describe how you would respond to them not what they actually do. It's not very good about it though, because Brute/Mover/Breaker/etc could mean a lot of things.

Like if someone is classed as a Blaster, that doesn't tell you what they blast. It could be bullets, could be acid spray, could be a fuck you dimensional beam and you'd have to react completely differently to those threats.

>>49094274
> all we get is persecution-complex Tay-Tay raving about how she knows that they all know and are all totally in on it.
but we do know that they do know that Shadow is in the Wards, and they do clearly know about the bullying, and aren't doing anything to actually stop it.
She might be unfair about how much they could actually do to help, but you're being unfair in thinking that there isn't clear evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the other girls.
It's not a persecution complex when people (ie the monster trio) are actually tormenting you for their own enjoyment.

>>49094599

She wasn't very interesting. The little bit we see of the Wards and the Protectorate reads a lot better in their interludes.

>>49094867

Well, Shadow Stalker is hot, and she only really hurts bad people. I'd forgive her a lot, even though I'm not into black women.

So im building a character that im probably never going to do anything with and need help. Is there any tinker in the story who just builds robots? Like humanoid robots.

>>49094900

Yes, but really, you're going against the spirit of things if you pick and define your own powers.

Armada in Weaver Dice Lausanne (It's run by Wildbow, so it's basically canon) only build humanoid robot soldiers. He's a fat guy in a Napoleon hat, but he's pretty deadly because his robots wreck the action economy.

>>49094896
>and she only really hurts bad people.
objectively untrue.
Unless you're trying to defend her attacking Taylor (including physically assaulting her), because Taylor is a 'bad person' because of things she did that Stalker had know way of knowing Taylor did at the time she physically attacked her.

>>49094930

Taylor IS a bad person. She's a supervillain. Taylor herself has never denied being a bad person who does bad things.

>>49094702
>Bitch and someone like Regent are completely different
Well, functionally, they both get others to fight for them, and if you kill Bitch/Regent/Skitter, their minions are free/neutralized more-or-less

>>49094781
Breakers can overlap with just about anything - typically breakers get a subtype that lets you know how to combat them (like changers), ex Breaker/Mover (Velocity) or Changer/Brute (Hookwolf)
The number also tells you a lot, Gallant is Blaster 2 (take cover) Purity is Blaster 8 (get the fuck clear)

Just keep in mind: The PRT Classifications are PRESCRIPTIVE, not DESCRIPTIVE, and they're assigned by humans using incomplete and often bad data.

>>49094939
Not before her trigger, which is when Sophia bullied her most.

>>49094949
>Well, functionally, they both get others to fight for them, and if you kill Bitch/Regent/Skitter, their minions are free/neutralized more-or-less
The big difference is between minion-users and infiltrators.

>>49094957

Sure, but Sophia did a lot more good than Taylor did. Sophia was still fighting the good fight. That's why she was a hero and Taylor was a villain.

>>49094939
>Taylor IS a bad person. She's a supervillain.

I'm not saying that Taylor doesn't undertake some dark acts, but one of the major themes of the story was whether the labels of "superhero" and "supervillain" really denote who you are as a person.

I mean, Sophia was technically a superhero - does that mean, then, that she must also be a good person?

>>49094969
Sure, which is why they enact "Master/Stranger Protocols" and not just "Stranger Protocols"
but if someone is a "master" in the battlefield sense, you seek to neutralize them instead of combating their minions if possible someone who can't actually control others in any fashion would probably just be a "stranger" - but the line between the two is blurry at best. Like, Nice Guy, is he a master since he influences your mind? How about Imp? How about August Prince? Only the last of those three got a Master rating, despite the similarities in their powers, the other two were pure-stranger.

>>49095021

Yeah, Sophia's a good person. It's just that Taylor sees her as a bad person, because Taylor is far more horrible and needs to justify her own actions somehow.

>>49094896
>She wasn't very interesting.

We'll have to agree to differ on that one. I found exploring the blurred line between villainy and heroism to be far more compelling than what we would've gotten with the Wards. I like the Wards, but Worm would've been much more of a traditional superhero story if it focused on them, and that's not a good thing.

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>>49095039
>Yeah, Sophia's a good person
She doesn't even believe in fighting criminals that much, as much as she just enjoys hurting them

>>49095048

Not really. The thing about Worm is that the traditional superhero story is breaking down. Being a superhero is the logical, sane thing to do, but the system is going batshit. Also, these are generally more 'ordinary people', and everything is falling apart.

Taylor has one foot in crazytown already, so the shift isn't as much as a shock. She's also way too easily for, you know, KILLING ALEXANDRIA.

It's like if the Joker killed Batman and Commissar Gordon. I don't care if they start spreading lies that Batman was a pedophile and Gordon was actually a dogfucker, I would walk into the cell and empty my entire revolver into the 'reformed' Joker. I would go out of my way to fuck him over.

>>49095039

This is taking the "unreliable narrator" meme way too far. I'd like you to actually defend this position.

>>49095039
Yes, because shoving someone in a locker and covering them in bugs is a good thing to do to people.

>>49095066

What if the Joker killed Batman and Commissioner Gordon after it was revealed that Bats and Gordon had been kidnapping Gothamites and subjecting them to perverse experiments for years?

Alexandria was already hated by the vast majority of the Protectorate by the time she was killed, and the official announcement suggested that other capes participated as well.

>>49095078

Oh come on. The worst thing Sophia did was 'kill some people who had it coming'. Taylor cut out a man's eyes, nearly killed plenty of good people, provoked an ally into a suicidal attack so she could win points with Phir Se, and for an encore she mind-raped every parahuman in existence and sent them en masse to their deaths.

Sure she had good reasons - or so we think from her perspective - but those are monstrous actions. Arguably she was as bad as Jack when her actions are considered from an objective perspective.

>>49095039
>Yeah, Sophia's a good person
Come on, Taylor turned out to be way worse, but even with all the crime fighting she did Sophia was never a good person.

>>49094927
I was thinking something along the lines of building robots who aren't really impressive at a basic level. Like they can move like humans do, walking running jumping, even enough fine manipulation to write or cook. Then he can incorporate other tinker tech he's witnessed into them, like if he sees someone with a ray gun he could learn to give them blasts of energy. The more powers he tries to fit into one robot and the more potent those powers are make building the robot longer and more difficult.

>>49095104

Sure, because I'd believe Batman - who I've seen save people from burning buildings, and fight alongside the Justice League - was actually a sadistic sociopath the entire time. Even if he did it, I'd trust Batman more than the fucking Joker.

I know people Batman has saved, and I know people who died or were driven insane by the Joker. I don't really care if the Joker is going to get cleared, I'm putting all my bullets into his face and damn the consequences.

>>49095066
more like killing Lex Luther.
Because by the "commissioner gordon", knew that Alexandria was actually corrupt and evil.

>>49095087

I'm hardly complaining about someone's personal foibles when they're fighting the good fight. I mean, plenty of heroes were jocks who beat up nerds in high school. Everyone's done shitty things.

Like, if I found the guy who bullied the Colombine shooters, the only thing I'd ask was - "Why the fuck didn't you KILL them? You should have murdered them."

>>49095087
the bugs weren't deliberate, just the fetid, rotting feminine hygiene products!
Sophia isn't a "Good Person" the poster is clearly trolling. Sophia is, however, very much a victim of her situation. She ends up acting out in an unacceptable way, but ultimately does less "evil" than Taylor - but that might be due to a lack of imagination more than anything else.
She's a very angry, damaged individual with a metaphorical gun and a government license (implicit at least in her mind) to harm "acceptable targets".

>>49095106
>The worst thing Sophia did was 'kill some people who had it coming'.

How about standing by and letting gangsters torment an innocent teenage girl until the teenage girl proved herself "worthy" of saving in Sophia's twisted moral code?

The only objectively evil things Taylor ever did were killing Tagg and Alexandria.

>>49095135
which is why the people who didn't know the truth were lied to.
The only people who knew why Skitter actually killed Alexandria also knew what Alexandria was actually doing and why she needed to get taken out.

>>49095163

At the moment, if someone blurted out "Oh fuck, the Joker set off a bomb! Batman and Gordon are dying RIGHT now, they're laughing themselves to death! It's awful!" I wouldn't even wait. Sue me later, the Joker dies now. I'm going to march down to his cell and shoot the freak until he dies, and I'm going to get plenty of the boys to come with me.

>>49095154
it's a little worse than that.
She was given the government license, on the condition that she stopped hurting people they didn't consider acceptable.
And she still hurt unacceptable targets whenever she thought she could get away with it.

She's worthy of pity perhaps, but she had plenty of opportunities to choose to be a better person and never took them.
Taylor, for all her flaws, at least made some choices to be a better person.

>>49095158
Not robbing the bank or assaulting a dozen people at the fundraiser?

>>49095182
but that didn't happen.
So the analogy falls flat. Really flat. I mean, are we just in 'through out random situations with superhero names' to justify our arguments time?

>>49095213

That's exactly what happened. Alexandria and the PRT director were murdered by swarms of insects. I mean, if you were a squaddie and you were in the room, what would you be thinking? Besides "Oh fuck, bugs everywhere" of course.

>>49095240
Did they die because of allergies to said insects or did Taylor go out of her way to make sure they died?

Important question.

>>49095309

The latter, she filled Alexandria's lungs with bugs.

>>49095240
>I mean, if you were a squaddie and you were in the room

There weren't any squaddies in that room, senpai. That whole interrogation was highly illegal.

>>49095240
there wasn't a squaddie in the room. The people who would have responded with a gun didn't find out about it till after people were dead.

If there had been someone listening in, they would have heard Alexandria saying she was going out and killing people to try an pressure a person who had surrendered of her own free will.

And the skitter=Joker analogy is increadibly forced, and you know this. The Joker would have a kill order out on him, he's SH9 matterial. Skitter was not that bad, there was not kill order out on her.

Your analogy doesn't fit.

>>49095309
>Taylor go out of her way to make sure they died?

>>49095240
if I was in that room, hearing what Alexandria was saying, and thought my gun would do the job.
I'd have shot Alexandria before Taylor had the chance.

>>49095448
Reminder that a gun does fuck all against her, she is literally invulnerable.

>>49095326

Sure, because people are going to shed tears over the death of 'violent black dude', 'feral woman with giant man-eating dogs', 'body-controlling rapist' and 'Ms. Mindfuck.'

If she brought in their bodies, the Mayor would pin a medal on her.

>>49095502
Becuase wanton murder at the drop of a hat "because they're bad people" and circumventing the legal system in place is okay if you have super powers right?

>>49095502
You realize that the reluctance to kill parahumans is not only for the benefit of the populace and the legal system, but also because they need villains to participate in Endbringer battles and not kill the heroes right back on sight?

>>49095194
>And she still hurt unacceptable targets whenever she thought she could get away with it.
Sort of? I mean, she thought they were acceptable targets. Like, they all deserved it in her mind, part of her psychosis, she doesn't really grok the way human society works (somewhat like Bitch to a lesser extent)
Like, she understands that she'd be punished for things she does (else she wouldn't hide them) but believes that her actions are totally 100% justified and that human standards are flawed.

You say that she had opportunities to chose to be better but... did she really? Like, just focusing on Winslow, after joining the wards, she leaves Taylor alone for months (was that a choice?) then the Locker prank happens, but was that really her choice? She has exactly one "friend" in the whole world, who's every bit as deranged and damaged as she is - it's like two junkies living together and only one of them's in rehab, what do you think's going to happen?
How much is it fair to really expect of a traumatized 15-year old girl who's been living the last 2 years of her life as a child soldier, when the system that's supposed to protect her has a vested interest in keeping her on the front line?
I dunno, I think she got dealt a shit hand, didn't handle it particularly well, and gets shat on by fannon to an unfair degree because we see everything through Taylor's eyes.

>>49095502
When you consider that Alexandria basically bluffed that she murdered her boyfriend in cold blood and the morgue team was LAUGHING at the body I would say it's a reasonable point for anyone in that situation to retaliate.

>>49095502
>Sure, because people are going to shed tears over the death of 'violent black dude', 'feral woman with giant man-eating dogs', 'body-controlling rapist' and 'Ms. Mindfuck.'

You might want to give the actual story a read, anon. You may find it enlightening.

https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/chrysalis-20-5/

Late to the party, but realized no one actually posted the reason Cauldron let loose the Case 53s.

Case 53s are CAMOUFLAGE. They fuck with Scion. They're literally made out of dead pieces of Eden- they distract Scion, and they confuse his senses.

Not like, to an enormous extent. But if you have a lot of them, blanketed around the world, then it makes stuff like Doormaker's portals MUCH harder to sense. And one of Cauldron's chief priorities was making sure Scion didn't see a portal, since he could easily follow it to Cauldron HQ AKA Eden's corpse.

>>49095537

Dude, it's okay in the real world even if you don't have powers. Police and soldiers make the call every day.

If Superman, whom I trust, says that he's going to fuck up his Rogues' Gallery, I'll say: "Give it to 'em, Supes! They had it coming for a long time!"

>>49095581
>she doesn't really grok the way human society works
she did well enough to know when she would get in trouble for being caught.

>believes that her actions are totally 100% justified and that human standards are flawed.
so did Jack Slash, does not make it okay.

>>49095604
Also the fact that they are parahumans, and their conflicts will create more parahumans as collateral.

And the fact that plenty of Case 53 are heroes and/or go to Endbringer battles.

>>49095611
>Police and soldiers make the call every day.
In the story, which I doubt you read, Alexandria basically bluffed that she flew across town, blasted through whatever place they were at, broke their arms and legs/murdered on the spot, and left them there for the ambulance to bring the body in for (Alexandria knew this) Taylor's bugs to sense the body bags.

>>49095581

You do realize that Sophia is a literal psychopath, right?

For christ's sake, she just stood on the sidelines watching Emma be abused until Emma pushed back enough for Sophia to deem her deserving of rescue.

Fanon exaggerates, as always, but Sophia really is an awful person. Her shard didn't fuck up her head like Bitch's did, so that's not an excuse either.

>>49095586

I'm not talking about it from Taylor's perspective, but an outsider's perspective. Do I, a member of the PRT or a Ward, shed tears for villains?

Fuck no, they can eat shit.

Go on. How does your average member of law enforcement view Bitch, Regent and Grue?

>>49095658

Is Frank from the Punisher Max an awful person? No, he's a tragic hero.

>>49095666
Okay. If your view was correct then there would be no truce agreement during endbringer fights and heroes/villains would kill each other on sight, reducing the likelihood that humanity in that General 50-mile radius would be wiped out during an endbringer attack.

>>49095621
I just find it strange that Fannon will cut breaks to Bitch that they should, by every right, also cut to Sophia, but won't.

>he did well enough to know when she would get in trouble for being caught.
Sure, but so did Bitch - who literally couldn't hold a normal human conversation.
Understanding simple causality is a much lower level intellectually than understanding the why of causality. It's the difference between understanding that "Things fall when I drop them" and how gravitational attraction works.
>Jack Slash
I'm not arguing her actions are "okay" or "moral" - I'm arguing that she thinks they are, so why should she *want* to reform? She's not in the wrong, in her eyes.

>>49095686
He's both.

>>49095694
Sophia's brain wasn't re-wired to work like an animal's though. She was a psychopath before her trigger. Bitch's trigger made her brain worse.

>>49095581
>she leaves Taylor alone for months (was that a choice?) then the Locker prank happens, but was that really her choice?
IIRC it was stated that the Locker 'prank' was her idea.

> She has exactly one "friend" in the whole world
the other wards tried, she pushed them away.
>who's every bit as deranged and damaged as she is
two actually. And Taylor had zero friends, because her one friend betrayed her and took up with the Shadow.
Shadow chose to be the bad person, repeatedly. We even get her persepective, and while she doesn't how society works, she doesn't indicate that she tries to figure it out besides trying to figure out how to get away with doing what she wants.
She's selfish, sadistic, callous, and deceitful. She had plenty of chances to make choices, and chose to do be the act the way she did.
Fuck, the Wards have mandated psychiatric visits.

So while the Ward system failed her, it failed those she hurt far more.

>>49095666
>How does your average member of law enforcement view Bitch, Regent and Grue?
They are criminals and need to be arrested. Nobody sane wants to kill them.

>>49095658
>Her shard didn't fuck up her head like Bitch's did, so that's not an excuse either.
Tattletale disagrees, she literally uses Shadow Stalker as an example of someone who's shard fucked with their head to a large degree.
Now, she could be wrong, or lying, but since she's Wildbow's soap-box/exposition device, it's probably true.

>>49095641
Oh sure, definitely- I was referring as to why they were just sprinkling them around Earth Bet. Like even if they're no good in a fight, or dangerous to the population, they'll often be just deposited out somewhere (in PRT Quest, there's a Case 53 just kind of wandering around outside of Anchorage)

>>49095666

Pretty poor trolling at this point, familia. Exert yourself.

>>49095690

When Kaiser died during Leviathan's attack, did the non-racist citizens go "Sleep well, mein ritter. You died like a real hitlerjungd"?

Villains are necessary as cannon fodder, but they're not LOVED.

>>49095724

You're aware that Regent is a multiple rapist and murderer, right? He even admits it. And Bitch is terrifying.

>>49095694
because Bitch isn't sadistically cruel, and Sophia is.
Bitch snaps back at people, but she doesn't hound and hurt people because it makes her feel good.

Compare how bitch handles the kid who acts like a little shit to her dog. She scares the kid, but does no real harm, does this openly and explains her actions as best she can to teach the kid and the parent a lesson.

Sophia gets in by Taylor, for telling the authorities shit that she actually did. She stalks Taylor down and beats her, then lies about it.

>>49095741
Necessary, but if you don't give them the respect of not-constantly-attempting-murder then you're going to have a bad time.

>>49095611
>If Superman, whom I trust, says that he's going to fuck up his Rogues' Gallery, I'll say: "Give it to 'em, Supes! They had it coming for a long time!"

t. average Injusticeverse citizen

>>49092910
I am /pol/* and was plenty amused by it. Wildbow is an excellent writer. Any political correctness or neonazi stomping was fitting for the story. Although Jack Slash fucking failed as a charismatic racist dude, was lame.

*I am one person, /pol/ has a lot of people from all over the world with different mindsets. They're only there to be edgy, banter/meme, or discuss news/politics. They're not all insane.

>>49095816

...was Jack Slash racist?

>>49095765
Yes, and? Regent had extenuating circumstances that would come up in court, not land him a shoot to kill on sight order. And you don't kill people just because they are scary in Bitch's case.

I'm not saying they aren't criminals that need to be arrested and tried for their crimes, I'm saying that such people generally don't deserve a sniper bullet to the face at the next available opportunity. Not even in IRL USA would that happen, and that's saying something.

>>49095816
Jack Slash was never racist. He's just a sadistic psychopath.

>>49095816

This is especially funny, because I'm playing a Gesselschaft member in an upcoming WD game. ('Lohengrin', Breaker state with gravity-distortion touch.)

>>49095854
>>49095858
I stand corrected. Still need to do a second, slower read-through.

>>49095887
Amusing.

>>49095773
Bitch also has the "advantage" of not being burdened by toxic relationships - she doesn't have any relationships (hardly even with the Undersiders)
Nobody really expects anything from Bitch - Sophia, conversely, is expected to be a hero, go to school (if not really *behave* there), and maintain positive relationships with her family. All things, frankly, beyond her mental state.
I'm not saying she's a good person, just that shes seriously damaged, and deserves some pity and, most importantly, psychiatric intervention

>>49095926

Yeah, I'm going to play him as a Nazi, but shamelessly earnest and honest about it. A true believer raised from birth, who cannot comprehend anything wrong about his horrifying life philosphy.

Basically, he'll lead by example as a true Aryan hero.

>>49095926

Eh, Jack was a bit lame anyways. He and Bonesaw were way too edgy to take seriously.

>>49095947
>and, most importantly, psychiatric intervention

The Wards have this. She didn't play ball.

>>49095987
Bonesaw was great later on, after Contessa sowed doubt in her heart.

>>49095765
You obviously mean Hijack who totally has a different power to Regent and is like Canadian or something.

>>49095947
>most importantly, psychiatric intervention
while they could have done more, the Wards do have mandated visits with psychiatrists.

And Sophia is worse than Bitch. I don't see Sophia's toxic relationships as a mediation of her guilt, because she cultivates those relationships.
I'd say that Bitch had it far worse than Sophia, and still came out a better person.

>>49095972
Sounds amusing. A Nazi tinker would probably also be a blast to play, for many of the same reasons.

>>49095987
Pretty much.

At least Bonesaw reciting the bones song was fractionally funny. Wasn't expecting it, at least.

>want to play Weaver Dice so fucking badly
>don't trust myself to be a good GM
>no GMs have stepped up in the thread
end me

>>49095999
>>49096048
Nono, you misunderstand what is meant by "Intervention", i'm talking about being committed, not talked to by some fucker in an arm chair. Which, by-the-way, did they even have until post Leviathan? I seem to remember that being a plot point, but it could be fannon rearing it's ugly head.

>>49095106
From an objective perspective, she saved everybody in all the universes.

>>49096727
Psychiatrists aren't mind-readers, Sophia said all the right things and hid the worst aspects of her personality. Psychopath, maybe, but she's not a stupid one.

>>49096673
>>don't trust myself to be a good GM
There's your problem. As long as you're not just sitting there looking at your players to create a plot for you or hardcore railroading with your Overpowered self-insert it's fine.

This is just a reminder that canon is shit and everyone deserved to get Scion'd there.

>>49097201
Except for, you know, the billions of innocent people scion slaughtered for no humanly-acceptable reason.

>>49097201
>ow, the edge

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>taylor is evil

Ahahhaha oh man

So people seem to think WeaverDice is shit as an actual TTRPG how would you adjust Wild Talents/M&M to capture a more worm-esque feel? Would you rather homebrew just everything?

You see your once great nation beset by illegal inmigrants. You realize the only way to keep them out is to build a great great wall.

You trigger.

Master Shaker Trump

>>49097304
Import the trigger and power generation systems.

>>49097304
You don't even need to adjust M&M. Its perfect, just make the degrees of success more lethal if you want.

Voila.

>>49097428
Oh and also instead of leveling up, add 5PL if you ever have a second trigger.

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>>49097248
She did everything wrong
for the right reasons

>>49097706
No anon, she didn't.

Well, except having a black boyfriend and acting all surprised when he hops on another chick as soon as she looks the other way I guess.

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Shaker Brute Blaster. Is the sool jim thing a Master or a Stranger power?

>>49097913
>having a boyfriend
She's smart enough to add two and two and realize the only couples that actually made it to the end were homosexual ones.