/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>>48868573
>Is the Highlander fan-splat good? I've almost never seen anyone talk about it.
No, and neither is Sentai: The Merchandising. oWoD already doesn't have a good core rules, and depending on how you look at it, the only good fansplats are Princess, or Genius, and/or Chris' Mass: The Effecting and/or none of them.

Also, you only need this part http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/189395/Promethean-the-Created-2nd-Edition I wish you'd cut the rest, it looks sloppy.

>>48868695
I've seen Genius but never heard much about Princess. What's going on there?

>>48868573
It's shit? Like everything in oWoD? What kind of question is that?

>>48868758
it's shit? like everything in CofD.

>>48868758

It's a fansplat. Made by people who decided that what CofD lacks is magical girls.

>>48868695
Senshi: the Merchandising is great and fuck you.

>>48868758

There was once a super cool magical place, then it blew the fuck up. Princesses are heirs to said magical place, who try to bring light and hope to the World of the Chronicles of Darkness. Like Genius and Leviathan, I think it's pretty complete but not a fun game to actually play, but it has a strong fanbase because there aren't a lot of magical girl games on the market, and a few popular CofD fan-writers were on either version of the book.

A part of me wonders if there's a comprehensive WoD/CofD directory of fansplats somewhere.

Me and my friends are thinking about getting into CoD/WoD, but we don't have any experience with the rules.
Should we do oWoD or nWoD? What are the different types of the game (Vampire, Werewolf, Geist) called and which is the best one for starters?

>>48869677
Vampire is the easiest for newbs to wrap their heads around because it's the closest to the popular depiction of it's monster.

You want Chronicles of Darkness, which is nWoD 2nd edition

>>48868758
Sorry, was making dinner or I'd have answered sooner. Assuming you're still around...

Princess is a game about playing Magical Girls in the World of Darkness. I don't actually know much about the "1e" version of it, but at the very least the GMC+ update (the Dream version, since the project split) is really well done. It's far from perfect, but it's at the very least a completed fan project with a cohesive premise and coherent setting. It's got more focus than Geist and Beast, that's for sure.

Their origins are part Exalted, part Mage, part Changeling: the Dreaming. They're "Nobles", magical guardians of a long destroyed and beautiful civilization, fighting back against the Creatures of Darkness that bring despair and anguish to the world. They're inspired by and make references to a lot of existing Magical Girl shows, but the things that it draws most from is Nanoha and Madoka and the web novel Sailor Nothing.

Players are Nobles, often called Princesses, but Princes exist.
They belong to one of five Callings (Champion, Grace, Mender, Seeker, Troubadour) and most align themselves with the Courts, each ruled over by a Queen: Swords, Diamonds, Hearts, Clubs, Spades.
There are also three "Twilight" Courts, who are essentially ruled by Queens that have fallen to the Darkness or otherwise push the boundaries of what the Radiant Queens find acceptable.

You deal with the things of the Dreamlands as well as anything that would cause suffering. Princesses have a neat (if clunky) mechanic that causes them to accrue negative marks the more they experience suffering and darkness that can cause them pain and make it harder to do their thing.

Is the Highlander splat in the pastebin?

>>48869754 has the right of it, but for reference, the WoD and CofD games are:

World of Darkness

Vampire: the Masquerade - Wrestle with your dwindling humanity as the vampire shadow war comes to an explosive end.

Werewolf: the Apocalypse - Rage against the dying light in an increasingly corrupted world.

Mage: the Ascension - Take a stand in the war for all reality.

Wraith: the Oblivion - Search for redemption in a nightmarish afterlife.

Changeling: the Dreaming - Bring light back to the world before you vanish forever.

Hunter: the Reckoning - Become chosen to take back the night by a mysterious force.

Mummy: the Resurrection - Fight the forces of darkness in the world's last few moments.

Demon: the Fallen - Find redemption among the people you damned yourself to help.

Chronicles of Darkness

Vampire: the Requiem - Hold on to your humanity as you take your place in the All Night Society.

Werewolf: the Forsaken - Keep yourself in balance as you undertake the greatest hunts.

Mage: the Awakening - Explore the mysteries of the Fallen and Supernal World.

Promethean: the Created - Learn the true meaning of humanity in a world that fears and hates you.

Changeling: the Lost - Reclaim who you really are after having your life stolen from you.

Hunter: the Vigil - Put your humanity on the line to protect it from the darkest forces.

Geist: the Sin-Eaters: Take advantage of your second chance at life among a world of the dead.

Mummy: the Curse - Discover the relics of your forgotten home, and deal with the horrifying secrets they tell.

Demon: the Descent - Thwart the plans of the mechanized god you once served.

Beast: the Primordial - Build your legend and feast upon a a world fallen into complacency.

Deviant: the Renegades - Strike back at the shadowy forces that made you a monster before you self-destruct.

>>48869222
Got a link to sentai?

>>48868758
>>48870303
Their power stat is their Inner Light, their energy is Wisps, and their morality is Belief. When they lose all of their Belief, their Phylactery (essentially the Soul Gem from Madoka) is destroyed and they lose all their powers and become a Soulless husk until someone can give you a pep talk and you spend the XP to go back to Belief 1 and the Willpower to reform your Phylactery, after a tense Social Maneuver. If a Creature of Darkness seduces you instead, the Princess tries to Transform anyway, opens their heart to Darkness, and becomes one of the Dethroned, an evil princess who exists to corrupt and destroy, and often creates or controls Darkspawn.

Their powers are called Charms, and many of them have persistent effects that are turned on instantly when the Princess transforms. They also have a second feature called Invocations that are similar to the Renown of Werewolves or Keys of Geist. Each Court has an affinity element (Fire, Life, Water, Earth, Air, Storms, Tears, Mirrors) and each charm has several Upgrades, many of which require having a certain amount of one of the Invocations (Invocations can also be used to regain Willpower, and in some situations are free. Legno can be added for free if a Charm is used on plants or non-sentient animals, for instance). It's a system that I was thinking of pilfering for a Geist 2e homebrew.

You should read the pdf for the most up to date stuff https://sites.google.com/site/princessthehopeful/home
But for my favourite part, the Queen of Tears world of Alhambra, which must be saved at any cost, even if the outside world falls to darkness
http://princesswod.wikia.com/wiki/Alhambra

>>48869276
Princess and Genius are to my knowledge the only "complete" games. The rest are essentially overdeveloped minor templates. I'm not sure why you say it's unfun to play. It has more togetherness than a lot of the more recent official games.

Okay so I just have an idea how I would reiterate the Werewolf "legend" for my chronicles but zi want to make sure ta I don't accidentally remove the thing that makes people like the Forsaken.

Basically, Fatherwolf, Moom, all that? Lovely folktales. Werewolves keep the balance between mortals and supernaturals not because od some sacred duty or oath bestowed on them by some crazy otherworldly entities. Werewolves hunt down the transgressors because their instincts indicate that they are the best prey. Humans endangering supernatural ecosystem? Maim the majority and maybe chomp boss's hand to teach 'em a lesson about nature.
Vampire about to flip local town community over because of their erroded Humanity? Better chomp that idiot down.
Spirits possesing mortals in masses? Hunting Season.
Whatever fights comes between werewolves are usually between packs' hunting grounds, or werewolves taking down a frenzied out siblings who obviously need a timeout.

>>48870635

>I'm not sure why you say it's unfun to play. It has more togetherness than a lot of the more recent official games.

It's got a lot of content and there's things to do, but the actual game at the table is not fun to play. There's not much else when it comes to magical girl games, though, so it'll do if someone wants a magical girl game and doesn't want to play Magical Burst or something.

>>48870767
>zi
>ta
>Moom
>od
>All that syntax
Slow your roll and look over your posts before hitting send.
Also, taking out the origin with Urfarah, Luna, etcetera is kind of pointless and takes away a large aspect of Werewolf. They clearly have Auspices and Lunes. You don't need it to be Werewolves' "instincts" that tell them the transgressors are the best prey, or to make them into Planeteers. The Tribes are all about deciding which prey is the best and most worthy of their fight.

>>48870893
>but the actual game at the table is not fun to play.
Yes, but *why*? What do you feel isn't fun about it?

>>48871019
Mind my pronouns shitlord, I don't have to take zi shit

>>48868573
Where the fuck are the clan books in the pastebin

>>48870767
>Werewolves hunt down the transgressors because their instincts indicate that they are the best prey.
that's because they're descended from father wolf, the greatest of hunters

Anywhere got 2e rules for the Ministry of Mammon? I'd write up myself, but i wouldn't want to waste time when someone's done it better.
Also where's the Legacy where you merge with your 100,000 Leaves counterpart, I need more paradox messing shit, not just summoning Abyssal entities. Left Handed Path gave me little satisfaction!

>>48871019

It's just not fun to play. At the table, it plays like a bog standard CofD game with some magical girl flavoring. It's like Genius, where there's a lot in the book that's solid, maybe even enough to get someone hyped, but then the dice come on the table and the novelty of playing something like a Mad Scientist or a Magical Girl in the CofD setting fades away fast.

There's no real specific thing I can point to, it's just that the whole game as a gestalt feels adequate, but not fun or interesting enough to justify long, extended play. It's one of those "your mileage may vary" things, I guess.

>>48872448
They probably just feel too out of place.

Plus there is the added problem of having no one to talk about them with.

>>48872448
I haven't experienced playing it, but it really seems to me that Genius would work best without any of the other Supernatural factions.

The fanbook itself says that there are no conspiracies, the world is the way it is because humans let it get that way, and there's really no reason to try and keep your nature as a Genius secret bar the accidental destruction of your wonders, and the problems that arise from people as a whole knowing that you're loopy.

>>48872448
I don't really understand what you don't like about it, though. It seems like as long as you enjoy playing as magical girls (and as someone who has, I'm good with that), it's the kind of thing that can be fun.

>>48872746
>I haven't experienced playing it, but it really seems to me that Genius would work best without any of the other Supernatural factions.
I think most games work best if you use the approach Hunter takes.

>>48872589
I feel that Princess and Genius are thematically out of place, but Princess at least does a good job of feeling tonally fitting. I mean, power level aside, Madoka would probably fit in the WoD tonally, and Princess is about there.

It also inspired me to do a Changeling focused Magical Girl Hunter Conspiracy.

>>48869276
Most fansplats aren't worth talking about. Genius doesn't fit into WoD and its mechanics are a busted mess of oMage bullshit. Princess tries to fit in, but is confused and directionless like Beast. Leviathan gets the tone right with mechanics that are needlessly complex and terribly balanced against 2e (plus obligatory 'only good for mpreg' barb). Dragon is just unfinished.

And that's it. Any other game died so early in its creation that they aren't worth discussing or even acknowledging.

>>48873023
>Princess tries to fit in, but is confused and directionless like Beast.
But Princess has more direction than Beast...
It has X, Y, and Z splats, humanoid antagonists, monster antagonists, mechanics that encourage action, character goals, and even a mini-splat. It's only real problem is that Sensitivity is probably more complicated than it needs to be.

Leviathan seems to have *less* than Beast, though.

Dragon is less worth talking about than Leviathan. I think Dragon is less complete than Paladin, and that's saying something.

I mean, I'm not saying that everyone should love Princess; I just don't understand where all of these complaints are coming from. It's without a doubt the most finished project. It even has a supplement book. Other than "Magical Girls don't fit in the World of Darkness", I don't really see the hate for it.

>>48872804

> It seems like as long as you enjoy playing as magical girls (and as someone who has, I'm good with that), it's the kind of thing that can be fun.

Maybe for a bit, but that fades away fast, and once it's gone, you're just left with a template that plays like how one would imagine a generic CofD game plays, instead of a template that could only belong to a magical girl. It's missing some kind of spark to make the game interesting.

The only way I can really explain it is to have you to play it, but just the idea of playing a magical girl might be all you personally need to have fun. And that's fine. Like I said, it's a "your mileage may vary" kind of thing.

>>48873135
Maybe because this is the world of darkness thread, so 'doesn't fit in the world of darkness' is like, the greatest sin.

>>48873135
This is my princess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WgY4L10qdE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLyhb5iG-5g

I think she'd work in WoD

As in aside, I'm thinking about running a VtR game in South Africa. And making it Zef as fuck.
I just don't know much about South African history, and therefore what the Kindred there would be like. Brainstorm, anyone?

>>48873135
>>48873095

>It has X, Y, and Z splats, humanoid antagonists, monster antagonists, mechanics that encourage action, character goals, and even a mini-splat.

And none of those, at the table, are as fun or as interesting as they seem on paper. There's nothing about them that really makes the game itself unique. It's got its original setting to lean on, but that only takes the game so far. Again, it's like Genius where it's a far more interesting read than it is a game.

"It's the most complete" doesn't mean anything when the game itself just isn't as fun or interesting to play as something like Demon or Vampire. I don't hate Princess, I just don't think it's fun.

>>48871019
On werewolves. Yeah, sorry about all that awful typoing it's incredibly late over here (I don't think I can help my syntax being weird since English is the third language I learned in school.)

I just genuinely don't get the appeal of werewolf gamelines as described. These are just furry shapeshifters with Hulk mechanic added on with some very squicky enemy that is mostly related to the werewolves via gameline mythos (I don't recall any real life myths linking werewolves and spirits) and Fatherwolf + Mother Luna (Moom, for short, as a combination of Moon and Mom) feels like some excuse plot to justify werewolf condition when it's not really needed. Requiem doesn't explain why there are vampires, and Changeling leaves true nature of True Fea up to the Storyteller with multiple choice past.

I mean shouldn't game about being a werewolf focus on human side dealing with the fact that every month they will spend three days not in control of their body while trying to make sure that on those three nights they won't harm their loved ones and maybe minimize the damage?

The alteration to the lore I tried to make weren't about making werewolves planeteers, but removing the godsent antihero border-patrol -aspect and replacing it with more "natural" biggest-fish-detector that just pushes werewolves towards biggest offender of mundane/supernatural -balance to play on them being feared by every other supernatural and also let players be border patrol if they want to.

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>come home from a long day at work
>turn on the TV, kick back, and relax
>your teenage daughter sinks into the room, and taps you on the shoulder, looking nervously at you, scared of what is to come
>you look at her, greeting her with a smile, and a hug
>she hugs back, but, quickly backs away
>"Dad, I have something to tell you. I'm...I'm a INSERT WORLD OF DARKNESS CREATURE HERE
How do you react?

>>48873481
Well of course honey. I was the one who sold you off to that fae in the first place. How do you think I got your mother to marry me?

>>48873481
>off comes belt

What comes next? Well...
Depends on your concept of what's good and what's bad.

it will either be painful, sexy, or both. Eitherway, it will be morally questionable

>>48873535
>>48873481
Same desu

>>48873481

>I'm a Demon!

I reveal myself to be a Hunter/Killer Angel in the form of the Demon's Cover's father. I must eliminate the Demon before she finds her Cover's actual father in the basement, where I chained him up.

>>48873481
Jesus fucking christ, I thought she grew out of pretending to be made up bullshit ages ago.
Goddamn "kin" bullshit.

>>48873481
>"I am a Genius, and here is my Amazon wishlist for my next project."
"Alright darling, whatever you want. Just don't fry my brain, ok?"
"...hold on... 57 dildos?!..."

>>48873807

Look, someone's going to have to solve Japan's birth rate problem. You gonna buy her those dildos or what?

>>48873195
The powers all revolve around transforming into your magical girl form...

>>48873299
Like I said, I feel like if you're cool with playing Magical Girls, it's got more than you could want (especially since most magical girl games don't have any of the social groups for you to hang your hat on, and tend to just be superhero games with more lace and frills).

>>48873435
The reason that Werewolves are unlike the mythology and cultural depictions of Werewolves is because "guy who flips out and tries to kill his friends and family once a month" isn't a very interesting game concept, and the "godsent antihero border patrol" aspect gives them something to hang their hat on. The Tribes give more than enough focus.

>>48873481
Clearly she's a Demon, since I have none of those things, least of all a teenage daughter. I would have had to have her at 13...

>>48873481
Well, that does explain the trench coat and wooden stakes

>>48873807
Honey, that's not an official splat, come back to me when you're a registered trademark

>>48874004

>I feel like if you're cool with playing Magical Girls, it's got more than you could want

But then you play it, and it's just a generic CofD template with magical girl flavoring. It's not like Demon, where it manages to be both a CofD game and a spy game at the same time. That gives it this hollow feeling at the table that never really goes away.

The problem about whether or not people are comfortable with being magical girls, the problem is whether or not the game itself is fun to play. I don't think it is, but again, mileages vary.

>The powers all revolve around transforming into your magical girl form...

And beyond that, it's just any old CofD game, which becomes very clear once you're playing it long enough. If you're lucky, the strength of the setting can at least offset the encroaching feeling that there's nothing really special about the splat. Yes, it does check all the boxes of what a CofD game should have. If that's good enough for you, by all means, but I think on-the-table experience is just as important, even if it is super subjective.

I need the Dark Eras Companion so bad

>>48874403
You and me both.

But I'll just make do with reading more of promethean.

>>48874270
>But then you play it, and it's just a generic CofD template with magical girl flavoring
The last time I played a Magical Girl game it was literally just a superhero game. It didn't even have any of the systems or setting in place to support specifically magical girls; we were just teenage girls who happened to be superheroes and fight monsters on school nights and worry about Buffy the Vampire Slayer style issues of "oh no, I'm just a monster hunter, how am I ever going to have a real life".
I don't even know what playing "just any old CofD game" is supposed to mean, since all of them play very differently.

>>48874403
I still want a Mirrors 2e.

>>48874403
I really want the Black Plague era as soon as possible. Prometheans and Vampires? Hell yeah!

In the meantime, I'll just ST a game of Prometheans 2nd edition

So does anyone have cool Scion concepts they're sitting on?

I want to do a Created Scion of Anpu/Anubis who is an ushabti, one of the little stone statues buried with the Egyptian dead to do slave labor in the afterlife. He's there to keep the line between the dead and the living, clashing with rebirth deities like Azar/Osiris and The Dagda.

Chris has the most adorable but disruptive kid in the universe.

>>48874669
>Created Scion
As in a Promethean who is ALSO a Scion?

I dunno much about Scion in general, but I'm pretty curious how a Scion of Gwydion, Thoth, or any other Magic deity would work.
I'm a huge dork and I always go for wizards/sorcerers/mages when the option is presented.

>>48875436

Scion now has four 'Geneses,' whereas first edition only had one. Born are what you'd expect, Chosen are selected by the gods, Created are likewise straightforward, and then Incarnate are pieces of that god.

>>48875436
>>48875498
WTF, does this look like Scion general to you nerdlings?

Just kidding.

I'm sad I never got to play my Anansi Scion because the one Scion game I was going to join collapsed.

>>48875565

Expect a Scion general once the Kickstarter gets underway. Hopefully we'll have some folks willing to run games!

Once Scion: God hits, I'll get to make my Incarnate Scion of Azar/Osiris who rewrites the classic myth as a transgender narrative; the man severs his masculinity and rules the underworld as a goddess.

>>48875642
That's pretty gay bro.

>>48875436
>Thoth
>not relishing every opportunity to type and say Djehuti

>>48875661

And?

>>48875673
And what? It just is gay. Like a penis in a man's butt. Like enjoying oWoD. Like the sexual tension in Supernatural. Just statements of fact.

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>>48875791
>Like the sexual tension in Supernatural.

Also, transgender Scion isn't gay, it's queer. Gays aren't the only ones.

>>48876407

I have to wonder if the Ashwood Abbey will get demoted to villain status or not.

>>48876423
I don't think of it as a demotion, but I hope so. They (and Cheiron) belong in the Antagonist section. It fits them better.

>>48876407
I'm still really mad at Scion 1e

I went to a ridiculous amount of trouble putting together a Scion of Kalfu I thought would be fun, a classic pulp investigative reporter with a smooth voice and a big gun in the Big Easy.

Game fell apart in two sessions because of how trash the system is.

>>48876423
>>48876444
They would be so much more fun as antagonists. They play the role well.

But I mean, if they get fleshed out enough, like Slashers were, people can always choose to play them anyway. Evil campaigns are pretty common in most RPGs.

reminds me that one group member suggested we play a mage 2e game as Seers.

>>48876444
Cheiron is ambiguous enough that it can work either way.
Ashwood Abbey doesn't feel like something you can have PCs be a part of and not have it be a crowd of That Guys.

Is there any reason to get 'stuck in a role' as a Promethean except in character? It seems to be like, all negatives.

I have an issue.

I can't seem to pop conditions out.
And if I can't do that I can't give the players beats.

My players don't attempt to put it on NPC's or each other.

And the general interaction between NPC's isn't long lasting enough for them to warrant any of the default conditions.

Tips for motivating me & the players to use them or anyone got some sweet custom conditions that you see get used frequently?

>>48876444

There's an important line between Hunters aimed for play and Hunters that make great antagonists.

>>48876451

Have you seen the 2e preview yet? It looks mechanically sound.

>>48868573
I literally just played the highlander splat today as a one shot. It doesn't work well if you want a party dynamic unless you want everyone killing each other. Also the drama of The Gathering isn't interesting enough to warrant a secret society.

It could just be my poor Gming. If you have good motivated players I'm sure it could be great.

You could even have sweet flashbacks to try and look for Clues

>>48876519
I dunno. I feel like the Ashwood Abbey is fine if you don't focus on wanting to literally fuck everything ever. Like, being a secretary/assistant/other hireling to this old gnarly rich dude who loves to go on hunting trips in the Congo, where he hunts the most dangerous game: Changing Breeds

Wait how's zombie and giant play?

>>48876444
Don't you fuckin' take Cheiron from me.

>>48876879
Aren't the old most dangerous game guys a different hunter group? I thought most of the Abbey were young, drunk, rich college punks.

>>48875498
So, would Ebola-Chan be a Created or an Incarnate Scion of Babalu-Aye? ;)

>>48875498
Which one is the most priviledged scum?

Do cell phones get reception in Twilight?

>>48877833
Twilight isn't a place, it's a state of matter.
So, yes, unless your ST has a very good plot reason for the answer to be no.

>>48876519
>>48876964
>>48876511
The reason I say Cheiron should be as Antagonists is because they handle that role a lot better. They don't have to be eeeeevul, but they're very much not on the Vigil; they're working for a reason and that reason isn't to lift up the candle and protect the world from the dark. I see them as fitting better as Antagonists because they're the group that goes out of its way to hunt for something other than security.

They've also always been seen by most fans (or at least presented as such by most games) as being the company that's most likely to want to dissect members of other Conspiracy groups. They're the guys who if you don't work for them make you a crazy autistic with waif fu going on about hands of blue.

Being in the Antagonist section doesn't make them unplayable, but it does say "hey, maybe don't play these guys unless your group is okay with that kind of thing" (that said, multi-Org Hunter is basically as ridiculous as Crossover is).

>>48876879
>>48877073
Ashwood Abbey are literally a Hellfire Club. Like the Hellfire Club from X-Men, but not mutants. They're rich pricks who abuse their wealth and privilege to fuck and fight monsters. That they've got a super rapey vibe going on is the least of reasons that they're more fitting as antagonists.

>>48877833
>>48877926
Twilight may not be a place, but I don't think a phase shifted phone is going to work well. It may transmit, but anything it receives is gonna just be ~ghooooostly~

>>48873746
>Hunter/Killer Angel in the form of the Demon's Cover's father
"That boy ain't right."

>>48877130
Better question: can /pol/ meme a Titan (Kek) into an "ordinary" God, through Meme Magic Fatebinding?

>>48877926
>>48877975
>anything it receives is gonna just be ~ghooooostly~
This is a good point, actually
Anything you send out might be a bit static-y and spooky-sounding, depending on which Twilight you're attuned to
Ghost Twilight? Probably pretty similar to how the radio sounded when Eleven was using it in Stranger Things
Spirit Twilight? You might end up catching some stray spirits' voices, especially those who are related to phones/radios/signals in nature

>>48877975

I still want to see Mummy Twilight reconciled with everything else.

>>48876444
I disagree with the Cheiron. Kind of. The organization are villains, but not necessarily the people. They are just regular Joes who got in way over their heads and can't get out.

>>48878551
That would be interesting.

>>48878585
Yeah, but most of the Conspiracies are like that. With Cheiron, you're still a company man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEocj1eLsmg
Which Gameline accommodates Deado's the best?

>>48876764
Remember: All exceptional successes, and all dramatic failures, give conditions.

>>48878617
Yeah. Whereas with groups like the Ashwood Abbey, you CHOOSE to be a raging degenerate.

>>48876764
Print off some cards with condition details on them.
People will care and remember more if you have physical copies.

>>48878631
I can see why this movie got shit ratings

>>48878808
Eh, apart from Fat Elvis it didn't have anything going for it.

I find the idea of Genius appealing, so I'm rather inclined to try and rewrite it for 2e. Not sure how to make the template really stand out, though, which is really the key issue. I was considering the idea of Geniuses donating Health dots to their Wonders, making them a lot squishier than your regular template.
I'm also considering the idea of Geniuses interacting with Infrastructure, though not necessarily the GM itself. Make them a lot closer to Demons than Mages, discovering and utilising hidden occult laws to build their Wonders. They can do it from scratch, but they're much more powerful if they steal parts of Infrastructure. Does that sound interesting to anyone?

>>48876444
Fuck off with this, Aspel. They really don't belong in the antags section and they are STILL hunters.

>>48879018
Both of those sound like pretty bad ideas to me.

>>48879032
Quite a lot of people disagree. Ashwood Abbey at least are incredibly likely to be put in the Antagonist section.

>>48879018
>rewrite it for 2e.
You know that already exists, right?

>>48879180
I sure don't! Just google Genius 2e? Is it in development or finished?

>>48879191
Genius 2e is still in development. Devs mostly argue what about first edition worked and what needs to be expanded or fixed. Seems at the moment they are arguing whether or not Obligation (their Morality replacement stat) should be rewritten and how.

>>48879260
Oh neat! Guess that saves me the trouble.
Maybe I could start working on Legends: The Destiny instead...

>>48878631
Either Geist: The Sin Eaters or Wraith: The Oblivion

>>48879428
Hmm...if we were using Geist, aside from mutating horribly in the presence of cumin, you could pull these guys off rather easily. The Soul Stench could be explained thusly:

>As a Deado walks in the real world it drags its ghostly Anchors behind it, these Anchors impact Ectoplasm laced with the Deados Vices into objects,causing them to malfunction and rot.

Wasn't Leviathan mentioned as being like Beast, but done well?

>>48880080
Only by idiots. No matter how you feel about Beast, it's more of a game than Leviathan.

>>48876444
If you're gonna put Cheiron in the Antagonist section, then you need to put the Aegis Kai Doru, Faithful of Shulpae, Promethean Brotherhood, and Hototogisu there as well.

>>48880637
Aegis I'm on the fence about. They do want to protect people from the darkness, even if they're out for power and driven by a desire for revenge they barely understand. Also they're a Guardian Labyrinth.

Faithful and Promethean Brotherhood are *definitely* in the antagonist camp in my mind. One of them eats people and the other might as well.

I don't know anything about the Hototogisu other than that Beast says they basically control all the Supernatural shit in Japan, with fetish crafting and rituals and working with the Vampires and the head of the corp is the Apex of Japan he's so badass. So if you're basically a Shadowrun megacorp, you're probably the villain.

That said, I don't think "Protagonist" groups have to be GOOD. Just Hunters on a Vigil. I also think that groups like the Barret Corporation should be more along the lines of support groups. Which is another reason something like Hototogisu works good as Antagonists: They'd kind of be pretty boring to play, considering the corporate structure.

>>48880637
>Hototogisu

Ugh, why did you have to remind me of David Hill's personal Super Awesome Special Snowflake Japanese Conspiracy? In fact, why did you have to remind me of Hill's god awful Tokyo By Night setting in general?

>>48881009
I was surprised you weren't grumpy about him reminding you of the existence of David Hill in general.

Okay, how much of werewolf mythos can you remove before it stops being appealing to players? Ultimately what I like about most gamelines is how easy it's to integrate them with some mythos refluffling and just changing furniture to match the theme, but I am far more concerned I will throw away something vital with the Forsaken.

>>48881546
Myeah. That one is complicated. Almost all PC's will have a soul connection to not one, but two entities closely connected with their origin myths. (Luna, and one of the Firstborn).

So how do you do the classical "Mage's Familiar" with the new familiar rules?

Do you just have to take a familiar with the fetter manifestation, and rely on the fettered creature doing whatever it's urged to do?

Or is there a better way? Constantly spending Essence to Manifest seems like a really shitty option, and Mage 2e hasn't got any rules for Claiming. Which seems like the superior option should you want your Cat-Spirit around all the time.

>>48881883
I mean... Why did they have to make it like that? Does every setting with Werewolves need a story about spirit-wolf x moon ship with kids murdering their papa?
I mean I get that the whole concepts of Changelings spins around Gentry and Duress so that part of the whole theme and mood of the gameline but is same true about Werewolves?
Is there a way I could take the splats without having to import the whole creation myth with it?

>>48882211
>Is there a way I could take the splats without having to import the whole creation myth with it?
Just rename everything.
Silver weakness? That's normal.
Spirit powers? Part of being a Werewolf.
Tribes? They're just different breeds, nothing special here.

>>48882211
To give the game some meaning beyond "rarr, giant wolf-beast"

>>48882211
Because a game needs an established setting? You're being silly, anon. Only thing that's really a constant with werewolves are their dealings with spirits and shapeshifting. How or why they do it is up to you if you choose to ignore the whole Father Wolf angle.

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>>48875642
How is Scion anyway? I never really got into it for some reason.

>someone actually uploaded epub versions of Demon: Interface and The God-Machine Chronicle Anthology

I don't know who you are, but thanks.
http://libgen.io/foreignfiction/index.php?s=new+world+of+darkness&f_lang=All&f_columns=0&f_ext=All&f_group=1

>>48882369

Cool premise, garbage system. Scion 2e looks like it'll be the game people really want.

>>48882480
Yeah, people who came for an Exalted inspired combat system would be all over an unholy mishmash of Fate and Apocalypse World concepts cruedly strapped over World of Darkness lite.

>>48880732
Hunters don't have to be "good" to be hunters. In fact many times they aren't "good" or even objectively good people. Why would they be? Killing things that are sentient isn't a "good" act, even if it's for a good reason. This black and white morality you use to categorize hunters is ridiculous, Aspel.

>>48876688
Well, you keep all your Alembics. That's a good incentive. Switching to a new Refinement would mean starting back with fewer and different powers.

>>48882513

>Yeah, people who came for an Exalted inspired combat system

No one. That's no one. Even if people don't end up wanting StoryPath, it's still an improvement over Scion 1e's absolute tire fire of a system. The worst qualities of Exalted mixed with the worst qualities of Trinity Continuum.

>>48882804
>No one
me.

>>48869182
>what CofD lacks is magical girls

How is this different than playing as young girls in Mage? (and making the Mage society age appropriate)

>>48882804
>>48882835
Me as well.

>>48872098
>father wolf, the greatest of hunters

All we know about him is how badly he sucked ass, failed at his duties, and was all feeble and shit.
>best hunter in his retirement home

>>48882846

Modern magical girl stories are pretty different from a typical Mage story. Mage can actually do early, Sally the Witch style magical girl stuff well enough, Paradox and the Abyss aside.

>>48883007
Given that 99% of the time nowadays people saying "magical girl" really just mean "Puella Magi Madoka Magica", it really doesn't matter all that much.

>>48883044
Mage can't really do Madoka
Like, not without a lot of rules fuckery

>>48882929
read a book

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If I ever find any of you irl, I swear I'm gonna bash your head open.

>>48883534
What is that pic from?

How often do you get arcane beats?

What type of politics mage the ascension have?

>>48873481
>I am a mage
Well, you know best, honey. Do your homework, or you will never raise your gnosis beyond 1

>>48883743
Its kinda dont. Mages of traditions dont bother to come to the circle gathering and do not communicate much. MageVsTechnocracy is kinda long lasting war with one side 100% winning.

Which approach to historical settings in WoD is closer to yours: DaveB's "I thought about doing WW2 Deviant in Japan, but it got too dark", or Dracula's "If you can write about Holocaust, you can write about 9-11"?

>>48884240
I love DaveB's cock

>>48884240
God damn, did oWoD seriously include 9-11 in it? I thought those game lines ended in 2003.

>>48884587
>2003.
2005 iirc

>>48884587
9/11 happened before 2003

>>48884614
ikr?

When was 3rd edition VtM put out? I seem to recall it was right near 9/11, so when they did New York By Night, they talked briefly about 9/11

>>48884650
Dont forget V20

>>48884715
What about it?

I'm asking when 3rd edition came out. (Unless they also talked about 9/11 in V20, as I have yet to touch V20)

>>48884587
They didn't tie anything supernatural into it. But it was mentioned as 'this thing happened'.

>>48884240
I think it's okay to mention it and perhaps use it as impetus for character motivation, but using it as fodder for plot and stuff (like the Wraith book that included junk about Auschwitz), feels disrespectful to the situations and people who survived those situations, and the memory of the people who didn't.

>>48884650
Revised Masquerade came out in 1998. There was supplement treadmill for OWoD up until early 2004.

>>48884788
Yeah, I remember it a bit. I was just getting into it hardcore when ToJ became a thing

>>48884614
>9/11 was 20 years ago.
God damn, I feel old now.

>>48885268
> 9/11 happened in 1996
Are you retarded.

>>48883044

Don't I know it. Though Mage can't really do that either, at least not without that one Chronicler's Guide hack to make magic more of a Faustian bargain.

>>48884240
Ah yes. I remember that conversation. It came about because I was talking about Unit 731 for some reason.

Dave suggested the notion of a Unit 731-related Deviant Dark Era and I noped hard. I mean, it fits so very, very well, but that's too dark even for me.

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>>48885286
>Being this bad at memery

>>48885713
You did the Holocaust already, you can do anything you like.

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>>48882642
>That said, I don't think "Protagonist" groups have to be GOOD.
The fact that you think I'm talking about black and white morality despite the fact that I explicitly say otherwise is your own fault. It's not even about morality, it's about motivation, and I've said that hundreds of times now. That you still think I just want goody two shoes Hunters is on you for failing to understand.

>>48883044
>>48882846
>>48883007
Princess isn't just Madoka (it's also a lot of Nanoha, and some Precure, I think, and definitely Sailor Moon), but it's all stuff that can't really be handled in Mage. It's the kind of Magical Girl who has a transformation sequence and has an emotional reaction whenever EVUL is about.

That said, I did once make a "make minor Faustian bargains with alien creatures" type of Hunter magical girl Conspiracy. I feel like I probably could have done the Catches differently, maybe more like the Mystery Commands system. But having Bans on your powers does feel more like a geassa.

>>48885976
"Geas"

"Geasa" is plural.

>>48884650
>>48884587
Geist's setting is New York. One of the krewes is made up of people who died in 9/11.

>>48886004
I ain't fuckin' Irish.

>>48886032
>I ain't fuckin' Irish.
Their special Endowment shall therafter be known as "Potatory"

>>48886032
>I ain't fuckin' Irish.

Okay, Geis and Geisi then. Didn't realize you were a Scot.

>>48886087
Actually, apparently in Irish it is Geis, in Scottish it's Geas. Which is interesting, because I've only ever seen it as Geas, but in relation to Irish heroes like Cuchulain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geis

Anyway, I was trying to invoke that sort of thing, where you make so many mystically bound promises for power that you end up screwing yourself over, but I'm not sure that's all that good a mechanic.

>>48885713

Honestly, your best bet for a Deviant Dark Era is to do something with Stargate Project. All the weird fringey pseudosciencey plot hooks without having to deal with the unethical experiments that came out of something like Unit 731 or even MKUltra.

I'm starting a game next saturday. Setting is Rochester NY and the central mysteries are weird 'time ghosts' (Ghosts that are related to the Time arcana rather than the death) and a high degree of abyssal influence.

I have one question though; does a mage's Nimbus Tilt effect themselves?

>>48887102
Up to ST discretion, I'd say; I think in my game, we ended up deciding that it does, and hence you should apply any penalties your nimbus tilt is going to give to things you're unlikely to do.

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Any tips for someone is wanting to host a campaign of nWoD (but has never done so before) and the people they are going to play with want to play different very things (a Promethean, a Beast, a Mage, possibly others). Very early stages of setup.

Asking for a friend.

>>48889355
Just don't. They're all thematically very different games that lose a lot of what makes them compelling when you mesh them together.

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>>48889355
Fuck you, Priscilla, this land is only a peaceful place for you because you're nine feet tall, moe, and protected by Velka. Everything wants to eat MY face off.

>>48889355
>>48889383

Especially if it's your first game ever. It's really tempting to go with the monster mash for your first game, but it'll make your lives easier to stick to one splat for now. See if you can get your players to decided what game they'd all want to try out first and foremost, above all others.

I do wonder if that upcoming Crossover Chronicle will address the whole "hey how do I reconcile all these themes" hurdle that crossover games have. Beast tried to do it with a "don't put everything in little, neat boxes!" theme for its own splat, but that's such a non-theme that it didn't really feel like a good answer to the problem.

>>48889507

Have you tried not murdering the inhabitants? That tends to make them pretty cranky.

>>48889541
https://youtu.be/cVqOgklHhF0

>>48889511
I feel that Beast's main problem is that there's incentive for Crossover, but the incentive is to basically allow you to ignore all the interesting (and more focused on) aspects of feeding your Horror.
Also, my advice to >>48889355 would actually be to start as something without a template with no intention of getting a template. Just playing a game of dumbasses getting involved in the supernatural. Hell, play through the Call of Cthulhu Haunted House one shot using CofD rules or something.

>>48889659
Beast's main problem is that there's incentive for crossover, but nothing else.
They have no reason to do anything except be objectively horrible people or go watch other splats do actual cool shit.

Making a trio of demonic spirits for my chronicle. One is a fearsome destroyer, with gifts of strength and power and a fondness for treachery, the second is the sluttiest slut in Slutsville, who promotes lust and predation, and the third is some kind of knowledge/sorcerer dork. What are good vices and goals for evil nerd spirits?

>>48889716
I feel that the "Beasts are just horrible to people" thing is overplayed. Yes, they have to Feed their Horror through causing fear, but Vampires have to literally cause damage to feed. I don't feel that "you hurt others by feeding" is even a bad thing; yes, it's generally morally frowned upon to do those things, but as humans we slaughter thousands of animals a day to feed from. Doing bad things doesn't have to make you a bad person, and there's plenty of room for a Beast who feeds in "appropriate" ways. I mean, plenty of Werewolves or Hunters do their business in "appropriate" ways when they kill dangerous or evil monsters, and in a lot of ways a Werewolf's "feeding" is much worse than a Beast's.

I mean, the problem with feeding your Horror isn't that there's no *incentive* to do it. It's that it ends up being more of a burden than anything else. The book presents it as a solitary thing; there's no "group feeding" outside of Family Dinner. There are examples throughout the book that are Beasts going off on their own, but I don't think I saw any where they helped each other and shared in the Feast. I mean, Sin You reminds a trucker of all the shitty things he did to people that day and goes BOO and then he has to go find his brood again because they're waiting for him. That kind of thing is very much not good for a communal game.

My main issue with the way that people complain about Beast is that it always tends to be in terms of "THIS is the problem", usually about how all Beasts must be evil; There isn't one problem, though, and even if you feed your Horror, you don't have to be an objectively horrible person (especially not by WoD standards). Beast's problem is that it has so many little things that bring it down and keep the core concept from flat out not working. Even if it was a game about being an objectively horrible person, it barely works at that because of the stuff I just mentioned. Everything moves properly, but the game doesn't *work* well

I have a Love/Hate relationship with complaining about Beast.

On the one hand I want to love it. On the other hand I hate how fucking unfinished and fan-splatty it feels.

>>48889731
Evil Nerd Spirits would be riddled with fucking Hubris, and want to establish superiority.

I want to be a hero and kill all beasts with extreme prejudice

>>48890025

In the inevitable third edition of the CofD, or some kind of New New New Double Times Plus New World of Darkness, there will probably be a Beast that's a decent game.

>>48889383
>>48889511
>>48889659
Alright, thanks. Probably going to be like herding cats with these people, but I'll get something to work.

>>48890213
Then it would be even harder to herd them as different gameline characters.

>>48890100
Of course you do, you gamergator misogynist neckbeard, you.

>>48890102
I think a Player's Guide or STG would help it a lot. Even just a supplement on par with Tome of Mysteries.

Speaking of which... >>48888038 >>48887102 I hope Signs of Sorcery gives more options for Nimbus Tilts than the rules we've got. They're workable, but bland. Same with Yantras.

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How do Spirit influences interact with Supernal Magic?

Say a practitioner of Fate has "The Ninth Life", a Spirit of Luck and Cats as a familiar, which has Influence over Luck.

What would you say happens if it were to try and Strengthen Luck on the Mage, or one of their Fate spells?
Apply Successes to potency for the Influence's duration?

>>48890269

>Even just a supplement on par with Tome of Mysteries.

Thing about Tome of the Mysteries, though, is that it merely clarified the Mage the Awakening core. It wasn't some kind of dramatic change to the game, like a Beast supplement would probably have to do to get it to slide out of its controversies. Much like how Book of the Dead couldn't really kick Geist in the pants, I don't think adding more player and ST options are going to turn the line around. Its problems can only really be solved by getting down to first principles and changing things, which won't happen into next edition.

>>48890482
Botd was a generic blue book that had a section dedicated to geist but not enough. It needed to be a full on geist book to help the line.

What Arcana is used to effect Abyssal entities?

>>48890590
Spirit for Gulmoth, Mind for Acamoth.

>>48890424
It would strengthen raw luck, not the magic portion. So the mage might just be lucky in general and get situational +1s to some stuff that luck relies on, or +1s to defense and such. It wouldn't directly affect magic in any way, because Influence is part of the Fallen World and magic is not.

>>48890590
Any
It depends on the entity; a gulmoth imitating lightning is going to be affected by Forces, as would a gulmoth impersonating a person be affected by Life.

>>48890622
But Supernal Magic works by manifesting fallen effects, maintained by the Imago and Supernal power. Spirits should be able to affect it after it's been cast, but changing the effect, not the cause.

The alternative is basically saying that Spirits can't influence the effects of Supernal power, which is crap.

>>48890846
Why is that crap? The best case scenario, I would think, would be that Influence an effect the outcome/effect of a spell, but not the spell itself. So a luck spell, boosted by a spirit of luck, would get extra dice to its effects or additions to its effects, not to the reach/potency/etc, which is all based on the Supernal portion of the magic.

But that's just how I'd rule it as an ST, because it's not a balanced stacking mechanism.

>>48890962
Well yeah, but almost all effects are determined by Potency.

What would a spell to become a Morphean look like?

>>48891371
Archmastery?

Of course, if you merely want to transverse people's dreams, or the Goetia frequency of Twilight, then Mind 4's "Psychic Projection" is what you're after.

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What's the most overpowered Vampire discipline BESIDES Celerity?

>>48892236

Dominate, duh

>hey anon, put this gun to your head and pull the trigger

>>48892236
Dominate.
Get a load of Ghouls, teach them all Dominate 1, then let them run around doing your bidding with their infinite-use mind control powers.

>>48892303
Go read Dominate. That doesn't work in that manner. You can't make someone go against their survival instincts, the command just won't work.

Have I done anything stupid wrong here? Making my Mage's familiar, 4-dot version because fuck you, Rank 2.

The Nineth Life
Rank: 2
Attributes: Power 4, Finesse 6, Resistance 4
Willpower: 10, Initiative: 10, Defence: 4, Speed: 16 (Species factor 6), Size: 4, Corpus: 8
Ban: Cannot instigate direct conflict, Bane: A weapon that has slain a feline
Influence: Fate 2, Felines 1
Numena: Hallucination, Implant Mission, Left-Handed Spanner, Pathfinder
Manifestations: Twilight Form, Familiar, Image, Materialize

>>48892460
Not him, and I just did.
Nothing says the survival instict overpowers Dominate.
You can only give direct and simple 3-4 word instructions/commands, and the Mesmerized condition breaks if you experience a breaking point, but nothing sayss they can't force you to commit suicide.
And that's just with the 1-dot Mesmerize power.

Of course, it's a horrible sin against Humanity/Integrity, but it's still doable.

Is there a rational on why different arcana buff the same thing different ways? Not from a fluff perspective but mathematically. Using the example rotes in the book for speed: Space I'm adding my potency to my speed, Time I'm multiplying by potency, Forces is speed*2^potency.

There's a bunch of ways to skin a cat with creative thaumaturgy so I'm curious what's the best way to handle this.

>>48892523
Oh, you're looking at the NWoD 2e version of Dominate then. Older versions you can't make someone do something self-destructive.

>>48892303
I thought you couldn't tell them to kill themselves

>>48892592

2e says Majesty can't make someone suicidal, but Dominate has no such descriptor.

>>48892532
Because otherwise it's fucking boring.

Your Space 1 example is a simple use of Compelling, the weakest of all practices.
Your Forces 3 example is Perfecting, which does nothing more than affect speed, so it's more powerful.
Your Time 3 example is Perfecting, but since it does other awesome stuff, it's slower than Forces 3.

Could someone link me to the CofD Canon Index?

>>48892843
Google wodcodex.

>>48893062

bless

As a Tremere, how can I get away with Infernalism?

>>48893075
Don't run around screaming about you dark, demonic masters? There's not really a way to determine if someone is infernal unless they have reason to like, Dominate and such you. It doesn't show up in auras and such.

>>48891371
Life 4+Mind 4 to redefine the core of your being to something Mind based

>>48893238

Wouldn't it be Death (manipulating your soul) and Mind (becoming goetic)?

>>48893238
Sounds about right. Mind 4 allows action in Goetia form, Life 4 allows transmutation of physical form into mental form.
Basically it's like Psychic Projection, but you don't leave your body behind.
Which would meand Death in such a form would quite probably mean true death.
Rather than returning to the Phenomenal world with the Soul-Shocked condition.

>>48893263
Not him, but no.
You don't need Death to temporarily become a living fire (merely Forces 4, Life 4), so you would merely need Life 4, and Mind 4 to temporarily become a purely Ephemeral entity on the Goetia wavelength.

>>48892575
Even then, you can just make someone do something that would cause them harm, like telling them to pick a fight with a biker.

Do Mages have Virtue and Vice, or some other form of Anchor, or what in 2e?

>>48893457
Mages have Virtues and Vices, and regain willpower from rest as per normal.

Their morality stat, Wisdom is supposedly individualised, but not in any significant way.

There are a few excpetions to it however, you can never suffer a breaking point from the use of your Legacy's Attainments or any spell you've Inured.

Also Guardians of the Veil have the Masque merit, which at 4 dots lets you ignore 2 specified Wisdom risks when it's active.

>>48893502
In the chargen section it never says to pick virtue and vice.

>>48893510
They're fixing that in the final release version of the book.

We should probably shove a link to the errata in the OP, until the book actually releases

For now, here it is
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxveHUKxwBU9UUZ4UjZJdEhIM2c/view?usp=sharing

>>48893502
I'm surprised they kept them on virtue and vice. They have been pretty big on changing those with every game.

>>48893548
For the splats that are no longer fundamentally human, yes
Demons still use Virtue/Vice, albeit without being bound to the same paradigm of 'good quality/bad quality' that mortals are
Mages still use them because they're still human, just with access to the Supernal Realms.

>>48893548
Well yeah, but pretty much every other faction is fundamentally non-human, has to constantly wrestle with some dark aspect of themselves, or lost their humanity and seeks to reclaim it.

Mages are obsessed people who can see the Truth.
They only have themselves to blame for their failings, so they keep Virtue and Vice.

>>48893574
>>48893608
I dunno. Anyone who can conjure fire out of their butthole because they really really want it to happen, ain't quite human.

I understand the idea, physically they are human. But even that doesn't quite hold true with what they can do with just the basics of being a mage, with standard mage abilities like mage sight and pattern repair and etc (actually I can't remember what stuff made it to 2e in what condition). They may still have to take a piss like a normal human (which, oddly enough, is kind of uncommon among creeps), but they aren't just Joe Schmoe with access to a spellbook. They are pretty inhuman.

>>48893689
Have you ever even looked at Mage?
They're literally just people, but with magic.

Every other splat(sans Hunter) has been changed in some way that makes them no longer human on a fundamental level(if they ever were).
Vampires? They've got the Beast in them, and it isn't going away.
Werewolves? They're tied to the hunt on a basic level, and they can't fight it.
Prometheans? Weren't even human to begin with.
Changelings? Their soul has been fractured into pieces by their Durance.

Mages? They saw the Supernal Realms, but aside from casting out the shard of the Abyss in their souls, they're still entirely human.
That's where a lot of the personal horror of Mage comes from. What people will do when they're given the power to do whatever they want, without being given strange compulsions to do specific things.

>>48893774
Ugh, ain't Mage 2e about the strange compulsion to seek out mysteries?

>>48893689
>Anyone who can conjure fire out of their butthole because they really really want it to happen, ain't quite human.
And the President can order people killed with a word.
Does that make him non-human?

You're coming into this with the wrong frame of reference.
Sure you can conjure celestial fire and rewrite time.
But the existence of those powers itself does nothing to you.
It's whether you use them, and how you use them that affects your humanity.

But behind that all, you still like blowjobs and feeling good about yourself like everyone else. Which is why you keep virtue and vice.
You're not an abuse victim with a narrative existence and identity issues like Changelings, or someone who has to wrestle with a bestial monster in their head and their desire to drink the blood of the living like a Vampire.

You're human. You just know the truth, and that truth has power.

>>48893835
Thing is, it's not a "strange compulsion", it's who you are as a pre-requisite to awakening. It's perfectly natural, and a part of who you are.

If you weren't already obsessive, you wouldn't have awakened.

>>48893907
That sounds like BS, and reeks of mage-wank.

Werewolves tend to be aggressive and have a sort of animal magnetism about them before their first change. It isn't that they wouldn't change if they didn't have those things. It is a part of being a werewolf.

Part of being a Mage is a mystical compulsion to seek out the truth and unravel mysteries. You even say, you cast out a shard of the abyss from your soul. That shard is something every human has, it makes them live in the lie, which every human does.

That means mages are inhuman.

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Fuck you, Shadow Lords best tribe.

>>48894049

I don't even like WtA and I agree. Shadow Lords are best, closely followed by Glass Walkers and Stargazers. You thought I'd say Silent Striders, didn't you?

>>48893959
So your classification as being "human", is being under mind control by a horrific extra-planar force, which was bargained with by the tyrannical god-beings that rule the platonic source of concepts in the world?

Rather than being a state of mind and a relationship with the common man?

That sounds stupid.

>>48894226
If being under the mind control of a horrific extra-planar force is the 'human condition', then yes. Which the mage books make pretty clear, it is.

>>48894262
Just because the majority of the people on the planet can't see something doesn't rob those who can of humanity.

>>48894344
Except those who can see it can only do so because of a supernatural alteration of their very soul.

They are aberrations.

>>48894049
>He doesn't like the Black Furies
Oh, you

>>48894360
And how does that make them non-human?

>>48894391
If you have to ask that question, then I will ask you how any supernatural creature is non-human.

>>48894402
Their interaction with the rest of the community that calls itself humanity.

>>48894434
Really? Really? Mages are human because what, they can grab a bear?

Because if that is the case, the only non-humans are Vampires.

Werewolves integrate themselves deep in humanity, protect it, take humans into their special communities and serve back in the human community.

Changelings may try to hide from their keepers, but they do so by trying to be human, going into a world where their keeper cannot find them.

Demons are 100% about being as human as demonly possible. They actually have multiple powers based around making sure they are indistinguishable from a human, so they can act as a completely normal part of humanity.

Naw man, that's stupid.

On top of that, several mage organizations treat humans as weak, ignorant, fools, and either too dumb to get the gifts they have received or unworthy of them. Mage interaction with humanity is as inhuman as every other creep. Maybe moreso, since they have no compulsion to interact with actual humans. At least Vampires and Werewolves suffer for not interacting with humanity.

>>48894497
*beer
BUT ALSO BEARS!

>>48893689
>>48893959
>>48894262
>>48894360
>>48894402
>>48894497
There are plenty of people who can do things other people can't do. Are all the people competing in Rio not human?

A Mage isn't no longer human, they're more human. They're steel to the rest of humanity's iron. Or more accurately, they're siderite to the rest of humanity's steel. Getting rid of that extra junk carbon makes steel into better iron. It makes it purer, and stronger. Getting rid Quiescence (which isn't actually a shard of the abyss) doesn't make you less human, it makes you more human. Living the Lie is not a fundamental part of being human, it's an affliction.
Also, are you saying Sleepwalkers aren't Human as well?

Vampires are human because they are fundamentally different organisms. Werewolves likewise. Changelings too. All of them have had their very physical being altered as well as having their souls irreparably damaged (save for Werewolves, who don't even have them). Mages (and Sin-eaters, actually) are simply human with a little extra; in the case of Sin-eaters, a ride along that grants them incredible powers. In the case of Mages, the ability to see behind the curtain and know how fucked the world is, as well as how to reshape it. They're not LESS human. They're not INhuman. They're MORE human, because they don't have the things that hold humanity back.

>On top of that, several mage organizations treat humans as weak, ignorant, fools, and either too dumb to get the gifts they have received or unworthy of them
Several human organizations do the same thing to other humans.

>>48893907
Technically is a strange compulsion, but it's more due to being touched by divinity and driven to know more, to become one with that power and majesty once again.
But if a compulsion made you less human, anyone with a mental illness (which seems to be like half the planet) is inhuman.

>>48894081
Glasswalkers would be the best if not for the fact that the game repeatedly shits on them and can't have them just be techy werewolves, it's gotta be all "technology is bad, they're playing with fire, Weaver shit!" and then throw in shit like CyberDogs to show how bad technology is.

I wanted to give Werewolf a try, but fuck me the game felt like it was trying to actively shut down my character concept and make me feel bad for liking the technology focused tribe.

>>48894497
None of that is necessarily true. Supernaturals are more varied than you represent them.

Werewolves can abandon humanity just as easily as they protect it, Changelings can enslave mortals with their power becoming closer and closer to the Keepers they escaped, and Vampires can (and some do) seek to try and survive without hurting or negatively impacting a single person.

And yeah, the Daksha exist and are complete fucking morons. But there are also Mage organisations which seek to avoid the Hubris of their peers and protect Sleeper society from within, not enforcing their will upon them from a perceived position of ultimate authority.

Humanity isn't something that you have or don't have as of the fact of your existence as a Supernatural entity.
It's something that exists as a result of YOU personally and how you act with the rest of "humanity".

I'm talking about humanity as distinct from being "human".
You seem to be talking about them as being one and the same.

Caring or giving any serious credence to worries about being "human" is beyond stupid in WoD. It's humanity which matters.

>>48894606
>Technically is a strange compulsion, but it's more due to being touched by divinity and driven to know more
I personally think it's more to do with peripheral mage sight. If you turned that off, then the constant buzzing of mysteries would stop, and Mages might not be so crazy.

>>48894624
I agree. And I don't think mages have that humanity.At least not to a point that is greater than any other supernatural.

You can shout as loud as you want that mages just are part of humanity, but that does nothing to actually prove it. There is nothing about them that is any less freaky than the rest of the freaks, besides appearances.

>>48894497
>Werewolves integrate themselves deep in humanity,
some do, most don't
>protect it,
hah,no
> take humans into their special communities
that's more nostalgiafaggotry
>and serve back in the human community.
lol no

>>48894686
The difference is that Mages lose their humanity as a result of entirely personal actions. They choose to discard that relationship, and thus they have a Virtue and Vice.

Most other Supernaturals have lost some essential part of themselves, and thus have a different Willpower recovering mechanism as they have other ways of affirming their own identity.

Of course, Mages can get Willpower back too as a result of Exceptional Successes on spellcasting rolls, but that's just the same as getting it back from any other individual regaining Willpower from a supreme expression of their own self-affirming prowess.

>>48894730
I would say they lost their humanity at the point that they took some drug trip into the supernal and signed themselves to the paths, connecting their very soul and being to some interdimensional place and joining a war against wizard god-kings.

But yeah whatever, I guess they are just like you and me.

Mages are the most human and the worst monsters at the same time and can do everything the other splats do because mages are the best and I'm a mage irl

>>48894778
Most don't involve drugs, some don't sign, many don't care for the fight.

>>48894813
>some don't sign,
every mage has signed their name on the watchtower tho right?

>>48894624
>And yeah, the Daksha exist and are complete fucking morons.
I don't think he meant the Daksha, and they're not really morons. Their Truth is as valid as any other Legacy. That's sort of the point of a Legacy. Though they are more transhuman than human.

>Humanity isn't something that you have or don't have as of the fact of your existence as a Supernatural entity.
I'm not him (and I'm firmly on the side that Mages are human), but I don't necessarily agree. We're talking about being human here, not "humanity" as in a vague ephemeral quality; I mean, all supernaturals, even Prometheans, really, have personhood. But not all of them are *human*. I'd also disagree that whether you're human doesn't matter. Or, at least, I don't think it matters to this conversation. And in general I think that it does matter in general. In fact, quite a few of the gamelines derive some of their drama from the fact that the characters are not or not entirely human.

>>48894708
Werewolves cannot safely abandon humanity without driving themselves mad. They are part human. They are beings of flesh and spirit, and they need to tie themselves one foot in both worlds to maintain metaphysical Harmony.

>>48894730
>>48894778
Mages do not lose their humanity. Like... point blank, they don't. The metaphysics of the game flat out tell us that Mages are human.

>>48894898
Not really. And even then, "signing" is a less writing your signature and more performing some symbolic gesture of self-actualization.

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>>48894919
>Werewolves cannot safely abandon humanity without driving themselves mad.
hey, look, you're wrong
> They are part human.
nope, not human at all
>They are beings of flesh and spirit,
yes
> and they need to tie themselves one foot in both worlds to maintain metaphysical Harmony.
they don't need to, but the worlds you're thinking of are the spirit and the flesh, not spirit and human
big difference
as you can see from this list of breaking points, maintaining human contact isn't a concern

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>>48894919
>Not really. And even then, "signing" is a less writing your signature and more performing some symbolic gesture of self-actualization.
but they've all made that gesture

>>48894987
>>48894919
You see how deep the well of stupidity goes mage-wankers?

You open the door to dumb, and you don't know what will follow you in.

>>48895032
What are you even talking about. Stop anti-mage wanking. No one is even wanking over Mage.

>>48894987
What are you even saying I'm wrong about, you shiftless idiot?
Are you really trying to argue that Werewolves aren't part human? You know those aren't the sum total of all Breaking Points, right? And at least two of those Breaks towards Flesh are based on human society.

I'm pretty sure Chris even pointed out that if someone ignored the werewolf part of themselves and hung out with friends, that would be a Break towards Flesh.

Have you even read Werewolf, or did you just jumping to the Harmony chart?

>>48895023
Oh, I thought we meant "everyone goes to a Watchtower". Every Mage symbolically makes their mark, but not every Mage goes deep into the Supernal and signs their name on the tower.

>>48895023
Do I have to join a path? They all look fucking gay

I want my own watchtower

>>48895189
With blackjack and hookers? You can do "Paths is a lie conjured to divide awakened" character, since path is only starting arcana and no other special options.

>>48895189
Be a Banisher.

Kill mages.

Go out in a blaze of glory (until they wipe out any sign you existed)

>>48895138
>Are you really trying to argue that Werewolves aren't part human?
they aren't human at all (the book says this)
>You know those aren't the sum total of all Breaking Points, right?
just the important ones
>And at least two of those Breaks towards Flesh are based on human society.
mating with a human and eating processed food? only if you're at the extreme end

>I'm pretty sure Chris even pointed out that if someone ignored the werewolf part of themselves and hung out with friends, that would be a Break towards Flesh.
you seem pretty sure about everything you say but 75% of it is wrong

>Have you even read Werewolf, or did you just jumping to the Harmony chart?
I have, have you? because you don't seem to know anything about the game

Tips for playing anything involving the God Machine?

>>48895355
Dont put your hand into giant gears you stumbleon occasinaly.

>>48895355
Read some of the fiction. The God-Machine is super strange, it is surreal, awkward, powerful, and dumb.

Like, depending how important it considers a task, it could use the most intelligent angels, cults, and great infrastructure. Or it could just go about it in the most mechanical way, just pushing events into place to get it all to work, and hope for the best (and maybe act out with some defensive agents if you get in the way).

Pretty much, it is the ultimate Deus Ex Machina (hence the name). Think of it less as an agent with a will, and more as the ultimate excuse for why super strange stuff happened in your story.

I had a mortal game once where people were being kidnapped by two men in black that dragged the people off to a site that looked like a crop circle before sacrificing them there. A few days later the killed person would return to civilization, unaware they were ever missing, but inherently 'changed'.

Wtf was the God-machine doing? Does it matter, it was an interesting mystery for the mortals who found a woman who should have been dead, alive. They hunted down the men in black, watched their process, killed them, and protected those who were the victims of them (while watching them closely).

The will of the God-Machine isn't important, and its goals are only important if you know the thing it is about to do will cause more harm. The important part is that it is doing strange stuff and needs to cut it out.

>>48895355
don't listen to any advice from here that isn't backed up by the books, there's a loudmouth by the name of aspel here who doesn't know shit and keeps lying to people about them

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>>48895355

>>48895346
They're as much human as they are spirit. The book says this. In fact, the game makes quite a big deal about keeping your balance between your two halves. Acting like an animal--acting like a Spirit--shoves you away from the Flesh, while acting against your nature as a spirit--acting like a human and denying your nature as a Hunter--pushes you away from the Spirit.

The entire theme of Werewolf is balancing the two natures. Abandoning humanity entirely is possible, sure, but it goes against the themes. That's why part of Pack Creation involves humans, most of whom know nothing about the supernatural or the fact that their benefactors and leaders are supernatural beasts that are formed of the union of a primal hunter and the warding moon.

>>48895427
You're an idiot and almost everything you've said has been wrong or based on your own poor comprehension. You hate when people tell you that you're wrong.

I normally play werewolf. If I understand this correctly,

Adamantine Arrow- battle-mages, spend their time fighting/defending pentacle interests against banishers, scelesti, abyssal intruders, rogue spirits, other supernaturals e.g. vampires, Seers, and providing muscle for the other orders.

Guardians of the Veil- wizard-cops, spend their time covering the fallout of magic, spying/gathering intel on the aforementioned baddies, waterboarding the occasional informant for shits and giggles, assassinating problems before things get out of hand, never get invited to the cool parties.

Mysterium- Warehouse 13, collect magical gizmos, study arcane and other supernatural lore, hate sleepers. What most people think of when they think 'wizard'. Have a bad habit of fiddling with things that shouldn't be fiddled with until the Guardians/Arrows step in to bail them out. Autists.

Silver Ladder- politicians, legal framework that makes mage society function, settle disputes between the orders or within each order, act as the carrot to the arrow/guardian stick, diplomatic face between Mages and other supernatural societies.

Free Council- hippies, want to modernize magic, most often at odds with Silver Ladder for political control, most likely to work with/on sleepers, most likely to piss off the guardians.

>>48895478
Free Council are also timblr faggots who will curse you if you get their pronouns wrong

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>>48895496
>>48895478
As plebian as the Free Council is, when the push came to shove, they did butcher a bunch of Seer faggots.

That counts for something.

>>48895524
>they did butcher a bunch of Seer faggots.
Was that the Ministry of Mammon or the Pantechnicon? I can never remember

>>48895496
>>48895524
So a metro area would probably have at least 1 cabal representing each order. Unaligned cabals which are either friendly/neutral/hostile to pentacle society. Multi-order cabals tasked with some important function that requires the resources/expertise of multiple orders.

>>48895496
Don't be a fucking idiot.

>>48895478
>Adamantine Arrow
Struggle is magic. Conflict and challenge is the source of magic; not necessarily physical, but spiritual. They are defenders of the Diamond Orders and champions. Not of justice or anything, simply champions.
>Guardians of the Veil
Magic is Fragile. Each Paradox slowly kills the Supernal and deepens the Fall, and the Guardians will do whatever they can to prevent that spread, including in extreme cases destroying those who squander or abuse the gift of the Supernal. Additionally, they seek the prophesied Heiromagus, and will likewise do anything to further their arrival, though that's on the DL. It is however worth noting that they are loyal to the end. If their Cabal decides they want to bring the world crashing down, a Guardian will try to stop them and if they can't will show utter devotion to their cause.
>Mysterium
Knowledge is Power. And as such, it must be both amassed and protected, as knowledge of Magic tends to destroy itself in the hands of Sleepers. Secrets want to be kept hidden. They trade in knowledge and power.
>Silver Ladder
Magic is Humanity's Birthright. In the ideal Awakened society, every human being will have a place in the Thearch's namesake heirarchy. As such, order and decorum must be preserved and maintained, and the laws and rationality of the Ocean Spire must be uncovered and held to where appropriate.

>The Free Council
Humanity is magical. The powerful symbols of the Supernal do not imprint themselves upon the Fallen World; the Fallen World imprints the symbolism that humanity gives to it onto the Supernal, and then it is filtered back, with Humanity being the source of magic instead of the recipients. It isn't about modernity, but humanity. Ancient and long forgotten cultures are just as important as technology.

>The Seers of the Throne
Magic is Payment. It is the reward for servitude. They are the pawns--willing or otherwise--of oppressive dark Gods.

>>48895640
I read that as oppressive dork gods.

>>48895668
The Exarchs were the original neck-beards.

>>48895668
Possibly!

>>48895668
>>48895676
Odds are fedoralord Mages are Seers

Besides stuff from the Promethean books, what make good early antagonists or problems for Promethean? Any good ideas.

I would go for spirits, but I feel like if you aren't Ulgan, spirits would just be frustrating.

>>48895817
People who want to study Prometheans to try and understand the Divine Fire.
By study I mean put in a cage and eventually try to kill when Disquiet hits hard enough, of course

>>48895841
fuckin mages

>>48895841
So... Alchemists?

>>48895817
Ghosts present an interesting case to study. Here are the remnants of people who so wrapped up in what being alive meant to them that they can't fully pass on. Do your Prometheans understand that drive?

Another possibility, without resorting to directly using another splat, would be Changeling fetches. They're people made of inanimate objects who often have no idea what they are. As far as they know, they're human, and as far as anyone else knows, they're human. Would that state be enough for a Promethean? Would they force the fetch to confront what it is, just to see how humanity breaks? Would they protect it from the Changeling come to kill it?

>>48895956
The mystery that would lead to figuring out someone is a fetch would be strange enough.

Though it could be as simple as a changeling being like 'eh, please help, this dude stole my life'

Now that I think about it, I forget what kind of supernatural detection Promethean have in 2e. I was pretty sure they had something that pings non-humans but doesn't give details.

>>48896030
It's in Argentum, which is a Complex Refinement.

>>48896030
It could literally just be, "This is a person I've been watching and something isn't right..."

>>48896084
Yeah, but generally fetches do a good job of living their life until the changeling they represent reappears on the scene, or something else throws them off. They may lack a soul, but they are a good construct of a standard human. Too standard maybe.

Mind you, plenty of them snap and go awry, but you have to imagine they aren't the norm.

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>>48868851
>It's shit? Like everything in oWoD? What kind of question is that?

MOM'S GONNA FLIP!
Amirite, m8?

P.S.: It's still a WoD + CoD thread.
You like CoD better, ok, it's all right.
You have every right to do so.
But please stop shitposting about WoD - it's like hating your own mother: you couldn't have CoD without WoD.

>>48896120
I suppose. I still like the tension of a Promethean being interested in something that lacks a soul but still knows how to be human. It would probably take a conceit of a sort to make it work, though.

>>48896179
It could make a great step in the pilgrimage of a prom that is studying life, soul, etc in their refinement. Lead maybe, or one of the complex ones.

I'm still trying to memorize the details of them.

>>48896121
Why would you bother replying to a troll? Also, it's not really like hating your own mother; it's more like hating Trent Reznor's Hurt but liking Johnny Cash's.

>>48896179
But it's a simulacrum parodying humanity in a crude mockery, not actually a human. It's a P Zombie.

>>48896209
Studying a Fetch would definitely fit Argentum

Someone explain the following to me about Promethean:

How do Milestones work? How do Refinements work? Specifically, how do Refinements work regarding Milestones.
Do you need to complete a certain number of ROLES or just REFINEMENTS? Sometimes it says you need four Refinements, other times it says you need four Roles. At least once, it says you need eight. In the actual dice pool for the New Dawn, it uses 4 to 10, but says Roles when I think it means Refinements.
How does completing a Refinement work? Is it only one Role necessary? Can you breeze through by completing 4 Roles pretty quickly and getting lucky on the New Dawn roll?

>>48896433
>How do Milestones work?

Milestones when completed give Vitriol beats or XP, which can be used to buy dots in Pilgrimage (replaces Integrity). At endgame you roll your Pilgrimage as a dice pool, succeed and you become a real boy Pinocchio.

>How do Refinements work?
It's how you view humanity, you move between them after completing a role when you want to explore a new facet of humanity and take up one of it's roles. Except Iron(?) which you can fall back into automatically, changing is an ST-approved dramatic scene.

You work out your Pilgrimage's skeleton with your ST before the game starts, including roles you HAVE to hit before you can roll to become human, minimum 4, at least as many basic refinements as complex ones, etc.

Anything beyond that is character development, and going through at least one role from all 10 refinements makes you a better human in the end.

>>48883082

One thing it can do perfectly though is Madoka-style Witches:

Qlippoths.

>>48896485
>Except Iron(?) which you can fall back into automatically
Stannum, Tin.
Mostly I'm the ST and I'm trying to make sense of what feels like a lot of contradictions in the text. I've also got a player essentially wondering how much of the Milestone creation is on them, though I think it's mostly my decision with their input.

>>48897334
Wuzzat?

I would have thought Preta (Tremere who fail and lose themselves in the Ocean Oroboros) would be more similar.

Also >>48883082 I once made a Magical Girl Legacy.

>>48897334
>Qlippoths.
The fact I imagined you saying in much the same tone as "Dinkleberg" does not help with my missing sides problem.

>>48897348
The ST makes the milestones and then it's up to the player to figure them out, using visions and qashmal as guidance

>>48895600
All of them, really. There is a sizeable part of the Free Council who honestly believe nothing is Left Handed if it is done to the Servants of the Lie.

They simply don't believe that Seers have no right to live. They ALSO believe that there are no limits on how evil you may be to Seers.

>>48897357
>Wuzzat?
>I would have thought Preta (Tremere who fail and lose themselves in the Ocean Oroboros) would be more similar.

A Qlippoth is a failed Archmaster.
It's basically a walking abyss-realm in the shape of a human, it sucks everyone it interacts with into it, where it is slowly destroyed by the mad laws of reality in there.
It can only be destroyed from within. Archmastery is usually needed for that.

>>48897372
Here is where I'd put my Awakened Soul. IF I HAD ONE!

>>48897357
>Tremere who fail and lose themselves in the Ocean Oroboros
Wait...that can happen?

>>48897411
Yes. The entry into the Tremere involves being baptized in the Oroboros.

>>48897357
The character I'm currently making is a disillusioned, grown up Magical Girl.
Shadow name merit, familiar, use of platonic form for clothing and weapons.

>>48897419
Oh...becoming a Preta is not a good thing then?

>>48897438
It is extremely bad.
Tremere version of a Draug.

>>48897431
That's actually what the Legacy was about. The character was a disillusioned chainsmoking 20something who joined this legacy of Magical Girls when she was 14 and spent the last decade and change being in the Adamantine Arrow and fighting monster. I know one of the Oblations was that she had to sleep with her "prince", who was essentially a designated boyfriend that she didn't care about. I remember because I wrote a vignette about her getting attacked by a monster after visiting her gigallo. She also had a ghost Familiar fettered to a stuffed lion, who if I remember she was in love with.

https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmwljndJ6

>>48897438
No. Losing yourself in the Astral reflection of the Abyss is NOT a good thing.

>>48897503
>I know one of the Oblations was that she had to sleep with her "prince"
Oh Thyrsus.

>>48897538
Nah, it was Obrimos, based on the "basically an anime character" Perfected Adept Legacy.
The "designated prince" thing was more a Tuxedo Mask reference.

>>48897557
Weird oblation for a Theurgist.

>>48897469
>>48897503
Oh good.

>>48897582
Legacies are rarely similar to their Path. Playing Chess or solving logic puzzles is a weird oblation for a Moros, but that's a thing the Eleventh Question does. And the Perfected Adepts have a lot of stuff about fighting and sitting under waterfalls meditating.

And of course the Whipping Boys have sex.
Speaking of the Perverts, I should work on giving them a 5th Attainment.
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw27KSZGO

>>48897722
Well that's because sex makes sense for the Perverts. Just as Chess makes sense for the Sherlocks, and meditation for the Monks.

Sex however doesn't make sense as an Oblation for either the Path of the Mighty, or the "bodily perfection" Legacy which sprung from them.

Thyrsus or even Mastigos? Sure.
But not Obrimos. At least not unqualified by compassion (a stand in for Hope).

>>48875161
Which reminds me, I need to upload the latest session.

First story arc is nearly done. Future story arcs will probably be a bit more tightly built; this one's been kinda sprawling, but I think that's ok as it lets the players explore what they want of the setting.

Would Popeye be a Mage?

>>48897841
I said based on. It isn't the Perfected Adepts.
Like I said, it's a Sailor Moon reference.

>>48897867
Chris, are Werewolves essentially "half-" human, and meant to balance their mortal lives with being spiritual creatures? Re: these posts
>>48894987
>>48895138
>>48895346
>>48895468

>>48897949
It's more complex than just being half-human - werewolves are an admixture of Flesh and Spirit, which are the two sides they seek to keep in balance, but humanity is very much a part of the Flesh side. That's *one* of the reasons that 2nd edition packs usually include a halo of humans and Wolf-Blooded attached to the inner circle of Uratha.

Where's my alien splatbook

>>48898116
I was working on one of those once, before Demon. They're a former extremely advanced civilization that was destroyed by renegade AIs, and many of their lives survived in computer backups when their bodies were destroyed; a refugee ship made it to Earth, where select personalities from that group have been uploaded into reanimated human corpses via nanotech implants.

>>48898098
Chris, "admixture" literally just means mixture :I
Did you write for Promethean, or read it recently? That term keeps showing up.

But yeah, that's basically what I mean. You have to balance humanity and spirituality. Would you say this is a true statement:
>>48894919
>Werewolves cannot safely abandon humanity without driving themselves mad. They are part human. They are beings of flesh and spirit, and they need to tie themselves one foot in both worlds to maintain metaphysical Harmony.
i.e. even if it's not on the list of Breaking Points, going off and living innawoods and avoiding human civilization probably isn't good for your Harmony

>>48898173
>Did you write for Promethean, or read it recently?

Nope, neither wrote for nor read it recently. Anyways, admixture's traditional meaning is slightly different to just mixture.

> Would you say this is a true statement:
Ish. It's *hard* to just abandon humanity for a werewolf, and they need a foot in both worlds, but that anchor doesn't *have* to be humanity - the werewolf who choses to abandon humanity is going to have a hard time, though.

Humanity is part of a werewolf's heritage of Flesh; abandoning that is precisely the sort of thing that makes a Breaking Point towards Spirit.

>>48898143
To me that feels like it defeates the purpose of playing WoD though. I want an alien splatbook because alien stories are basically modern folk tales, I don't want one because I want sci fi in my WoD

>>48898432
Well, um... Changeling has fantasy, magical aliens who abduct people covered. But for a whole alien splat, I'm not sure what you'd be after if you don't want sci-fi.

>>48892236
Why do you consider Celerity OP, anon?

>>48892236
VtM is shit.

So what happens to Boston now that the Nemean is drolling in that Hallow?

>>48900135
It's more than a feeling

>>48901128