Exalted General - /exg/

They tend to be good. Chorus is good, and God Kicking Boot is excellent. Dawn of the Chosen is very meh.

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>>48761753

Some of the fan-stuff is good. I got into Exalted because of Keychain of Creation, and I got into KoC because I saw an image of Misho with his caste mark showing and thought "why does that guy have a smiley face on his forehead?" Other stuff; Anathema has been a godsend, I've only seen the first episode of Exaltwitch, and I tend to turn up my nose at fan splats.

My own question for people who like mechanics is this; what's the fastest a dedicated Craftsnerd can crank out artefacts? I used to think that it was whenever you could spare the 10gxp to make the final rolls, but it was pointed out in a recent thread that even using Thousand-Forge Hands you still need to labour for (6-Essence) weeks.

>>48763466
>Keychain of Creation

Now I'm gonna have to go reread it.

is there a list of the charms that a spirit created with Ephemeral Induction Technique can know/learn

>>48763761

And then get sad about it being dead.

>>48763797

No. Best you can do is go through the antagonists section and take hat the spirits there have.

Anyone know of any good Abyssal homebrew?

>>48763881

Don't think there is one. Mostly because they were previously just Underworld Solars, so much so as to having identical charms, that either no one knows what to do with them or no one cares about them.

>>48764955
Frankly, I think Infernals and Abyssals are a mistake.

>>48765015

They occupy interesting conceptual space, and give Solars an enemy of equal power. Abyssals were just bland and Infernals had Chapters 1 and 2, but were otherwise well received.

>>48765047
Solars have enemies of equal power, they're called Solars.

They don't need some edgelord supah speshul background.

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What caste is she?

>>48765211

No personality, can't say.

>>48765211
Dawn, with occult favoured.

>>48761753
Keychain of Creation was really fun, and I still love watching ExalTwitch. I don't normally watch streams but they're pretty good and a great display of 3rd edition.

Keychain of Creation is the only unofficial Exalted thing I've really enjoyed. It's what got me into the game in the first place. Everything else... the other webcomics I've seen either dragged on or just didn't seem well written. Some homebrew material is interesting, I guess, but I've never used any.

Maybe I ought to check out ExalTwitch one of these days. Sounds like it's the closest I'll ever get to playing.

>>48767074
It's okay anon, we can pretend we're at the table with them. watching them roll, hearing the GM's descriptions, sharing in the atmosphere.

>>48761753

You know, it's hard not to realize how fucking bizarre it'd be to have Exalted parents but not to be Exalted yourself. This is especially worse if you're not Dragon-blooded. If your father and mother were a Solar and his Lunar mate respectively, you're going to end up so fucked up for the rest of your life.

Your parents have utterly nothing in common with you. You can't do anything they can do, you're a baseline human (If half-Castes aren't a thing any more). By the time you're dead, they'll be completely unchanged.

I mean, it's weird enough when the Dragonblooded matriach is younger and hotter than her granddaughter. But this would be really messed-up, even if your parents had the best of intentions for you. They would just be too different.

>>48767804

>not being the Solar god-queen content with giving your bara beastman husband useful heirs he can groom to suit his purposes

Maybe try thinking about others, for once. Its fun not being a paranoid wreck who's only concerned with dominating others.

>>48768750

I don't follow. I was talking about how it'd feel to be the child of a Solar/Lunar pairing, or even two Solars.

It's not as bad if one parent is mortal, but presumably Solars reproduce with their Lunar mate. And the result is either a half-Caste or a human.

>>48769290
>presumably Solars reproduce with their Lunar mate.
You ever hear the joke about where a 900-pound gorilla sits?

>>48769572
On its bond mate's face?

>>48769641
For example. But the full answer is usually "Wherever the hell it wants."

>>48769290
Solars reproduce with whomever they damn well please.

But yeah being the mortal child of an Exalted must be a bittersweet experience. No matter how hard you try or how far you go you'll never come close to their accomplishments You'd go your entire life getting the same kind of congratulations a child gets when they learn how to walk or get good grades.

>>48765211
She has no caste.

She has no style.

This girl has shitty pink air.

>>48767804
I think a DB family is way worse than any celestial family.

Yes, your mother/father is a tremendously powerful Solar, but that's what parents are. You never had any chance to get to their level anyway. You were born and raised by a parental figure that is ridiculously divine, but that's the rule on earth in any family where the father/mother is very powerful/rich. It can get pretty fucked up, sure, but not terribly so.

But let's imagine a DB family. Your mother is an Exalt, wielding power beyond comprehension. Your brother exalted when you were 17. He is currently being groomed for greatness. Your mother and father had huge expectations for you, but alas, you never Exalted.

Can you imagine the look of utter disappointment on your parent's faces when it became apparent you'd never exalt? Can you imagine the unyielding thoughts that, if things were different, if you had been only slightly better, you could have become a demigod? The dreams keeping you awake every night? And your little brother coming back to the family compound time to time, with awesome powers and incredible tales, when you're barely existing?

A DB family can get fucked up really, really quickly.

>>48770861
That's not even counting particular brands of fucked up.

Let's say you have a twin. You shared everything ever. He exalts. You don't.

Or you were the family try hard. You trained every day for weeks and weeks, while your little brother was always doing fuck all and getting into trouble. You were the family's pet... until your brother exalts, and you don't. Then your struggle is forsaken, because obviously something is wrong in you, while obviously your brother did something right, because he was blessed.

>>48770936
>>48769666
Or, to tell things differently, in a Celestial family, there is no expectations that you (or your brothers/sisters) will be able to reach the peaks of your parents. Sure, your parents can have unreasonable expectations for you, and no expectations at all can still hurt, but it's contained. Your father, and yourself, won't expect you to be able to suddenly throws lightning or jump higher than mountains. And if he does he is crazy.

In a DB family, there is the conscious expectation that you can be as great as your parents, and that the only reason you didn't is because you are defective. Your brother? He'll live 300 years, learn to throw lightnings and jump higher than building while being revered by anyone and fucking pretty much all the hot girls he wants. You? Ah! You are defective. Something is wrong with you.

Malfeas wants some akuma? Easy. Just go to any DB household and talk to that 20ish reserved woman that tries far too much to smile when her parents talk of how her sister is doing them proud in the DB school. Instant akuma.

>>48771082
>Your brother? He'll live 300 years, (...) fucking pretty much all the hot girls he wants.

I would object to this last point. Dragon-Blooded are big on a) arranged marriages and dynastic ties, which rules out fucking all the hot Dynast girls he wants, and b) bloodline purity and ensuring a consistent supply of more DBs, which rules out fucking all the hot commoner girls he wants.

But he can fuck all the hot _boys_ he wants! That won't result in unfortunate bastards or improper pregnancies or the like.

>>48771166
Or as they supposedly say in parts of the Middle East - boys for pleasure, women for children.

In the Realm, of course, it would be reversed for female DBs. Have all the lesbian affairs you want, but your pregnancy is practically family property and we will be VERY UPSET if you so much as look like you're letting the wrong dick in and might spoil our family's good name and breeding. We do not want any doubts about who's the dad here!

>>48771166
>I would object to this last point. Dragon-Blooded are big on a) arranged marriages and dynastic ties, which rules out fucking all the hot Dynast girls he wants, and b) bloodline purity and ensuring a consistent supply of more DBs, which rules out fucking all the hot commoner girls he wants.
*smugly adjusts glasses*

Selective Conception.

>>48771166
Maiden Tea is a thing.

>>48771204
Selective Conception is very nice for that sort of fun, in theory.

In practice, it's a catch-22, at least for Dynasts. You can't fuck around until you demonstrate that you have it, and how will you demonstrate that you have it (in character) except by fucking around?

>>48771224
Maiden Tea is a thing, but it's an expensive thing: around Resources 3 by the /week/.

It's probably cheaper to buy pleasure slaves in bulk from the Guild and then sacrifice them to, well, whatever sacrifice outlet you have.

>>48765015
>Frankly, I think Infernals and Abyssals are a mistake.
I disagree. They've got their own distinct, interesting themes. Their presence adds to the game.

>>48765096
>Solars have enemies of equal power, they're called Solars.
I think Lunars and Sidereals should be able to fulfill that role, as well. Sure they aren't as powerful as Solars all in all, but they should be close enough to equal, and powerful enough in their own niche, to make for properly challenging enemies, even without any considerable advantage in terms of experience.

>>48771166
Maiden's Tea is a thing.

>>48771259

Honestly, I think a veteran DB should be more than a threat to an up and coming Solar.

Yeah, in theory when the Solar hits essence 5 he'd win easily but a veteran monk should be able to match a starting dawn blow for blow.

But that's how I'd prefer it to be, with PCs of all splats on roughly even footing.

>>48771274

I'd prefer a lever that can be twiddled, myself. DBs for "telling actual DB stories" and DBs for "tooling around with Celestials in mixed-splat games" are two very different beasts, but it's not impossible to turn one into the other without just having two DB books, I think.

>>48771255
>Maiden Tea is a thing, but it's an expensive thing: around Resources 3 by the /week/.
>It's probably cheaper to buy pleasure slaves in bulk from the Guild and then sacrifice them to, well, whatever sacrifice outlet you have.
Dynasts are rich, though. They also aren't, as a rule monsters. Ruthless, egoistical, used to having things their own way, sure, but treating sexual partners as disposable goods you'll actually, literally dispose of when you're done is probably not something most DBs would find palatable. Some may well do it, of course.

>>48771274
I think that's the case in 3e, at least when we'll see the actual DB splat.

For now, I assume: veteran specialized DB = starting specialized Solar in all my games, and adjust the powerlevel and charms appropriately.

>>48771290

Honestly, if they made the charms even (If not equal) they'd be able to do it with stats and a Supernal-thing. No, it's not a normal thing for a DB to have a supernal but if you are in a mixed splat game you are NOT a normal DB. You a damn notable one and likely one with some serious destiny riding on you.

>>48771292
That wasn't meant to be a serious suggestion. ô_O It was supposed to be a throwaway remark about the price and frequency with which one would have to use maiden tea. Maybe I should have said something like "A drug habit would be cheaper" instead. (Cocaine and Heroin were both listed at Resources 2 in 2e, haven't seen them in 3e yet. Opium, Resources 1.)

>>48771274
I agree, an E4-E5 DB definitely should be able to do that. DBs of that calibre should be rare, but I think 3E makes it pretty clear that high-Essence Exalts are indeed rare.

>>48771304
This, on the other hand, I wouldn't like. An experienced Solar should be significantly more powerful than an experienced Dragon-Blooded. Having things be otherwise would change the game drastically.

>>48771310
Sorry, it's just that I've seen people have some pretty strange views on the Dragon-Blooded, and the other Exalted for that matter. Regular disposal of sex slaves is something some people could seriously suggest as a thing Dynasts might do.

That said, Maiden's Tea costs between Resources 2 and Resources 4, presumably depending on the quality of the Tea and is availability in wherever your character currently is. A single dose renders a female infertile for a month, and male for a period ranging from a day to a week, depending on how high-grade stuff we're talking about. It is expensive, but still affordable for a Dynast.

>>48771329

Oh, I meant Veteran as in like E3. An experienced monk who's been on a few hunts vs solars not 'The Empress herself'.

I'd really like to see the difference become one more of 'Reaching that essence in fluff' than 'Different power levels at the essence'.

Raising essence for DBs is a hard, personal struggle to refine your energy and to purify your connection to elements. As a result, few DBs actually raise essence and it's only monks and really notable characters who ever get to 3+

For Solars? It comes naturally to them, their essence flowing freely. Unless their life is cut short, basically every single solar will rise in essence.

That way you can have DBs/Solars be equally powerful in a mixed game while also explaining WHY Solars are such a threat. A solar will, given a bit of time, quickly reach the same sorts of levels that are the peaks of dragonblooded power and move into the mythical heroes of the DB levels.

>>48771366
Eh, I think an Essence 3 DB should be a tough fight, winnable but also easy to lose, for a starting non-Dawn Solar with reasonable combat investment. Maybe a bit more powerful than the Solar, but not so much that it'd be a hopeless fight.

>>48771329
>This, on the other hand, I wouldn't like. An experienced Solar should be significantly more powerful than an experienced Dragon-Blooded. Having things be otherwise would change the game drastically.
You could make it possible to easily houserule DBs up to parity with Solars, without also making normal DBs much better than Solars; you'd basically make it a design principle to avoid "a shitty version of a Solar Charm" Charms. Then, once you have a complete Charmset, you set DBs to have a worse excellency and a worse mote pool, which are easily changed if for some reason John wants to play a DB exile without being totally boned mechanically compared to Jane the Solar.

This obviously isn't going to be the case for Ex3; a quick glance at the QCs shows that Dragon-Blooded have shitty penalty negators, for example.

>>48771082
Lydia has written a decent piece on what it feels to not exalt in a family of DB: http://pandora.simons-rock.edu/~shataina/draft.html

The prologue is well written as it is the backstory of Shataina's character, though the rest was written as a recollection of games played by a really shitty DM with no knowledge of Exalted. Read the backstory and stop here.

>>48771800
>Lydia

Reading that frustrated me so much. I hate stories in which the protagonist has no agency.

>>48772259
Well, the issue at hand is that Lydia played with an incompetent GM, and she had not the balls to tell him to fuck off.

Thus, while the backstory of her character is well written and shows a deep understanding of the world of Exalted, the retelling of her games is incoherent and highly stupid, because her games were incoherent and highly stupid.

The highlight being, of course, the mortal king that raped her Solar character, because of course in Exalted mortals casually rape Solars. It's something that just happens.

>>48772442
Let's be real though, it'd probably be pretty cool to rape a Solar.

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>>48772464
I have no particular issue with Solar raping. I'm sure it's pretty fun. I do have an issue with mortals raping Solars, and a bigger one with a mortal blackmailing a fully speced Performance/Manipulation Solar into rape.

For the love of rape, at least do it correctly.

>>48772442
A mortal would be honored beyond reason to be raped by a Solar, even if the mortal's preferences would normally say otherwise.

>>48772656

So Solars should just be played like Greek Gods?

>>48772671
More or less, yes.

That's kind of the intention too, afaik. The Exalted, especially the Celestial Exalted, and beyond the rules of mortal societies. They decide what is right and wrong for themselves.

Of course, this can bite them in the ass too, which I believe is also intended.

>>48772711
are beyond*

>>48772671
Apart from some things like the whole turning into a swan bit, yes. Solars overthrew the Titans in the dawn of time, they now have a comfy seat at the top of the cosmic order with very little to threaten them and lots of leeway for doing whatever the hell they want, be that crafting the best thing, sticking their dicks in the thing, meditating on the thing, researching the thing, or intimidating the thing into worshiping you.

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>>48772671
That. >>48772711

Solars are so much beyond the mortal ken than merely entertaining the thinking that a mortal could not want to fuck them seems laughable. If the epitome of perfection made flesh, that is also the Goddess Empress of your nation, who saved your family from destruction more times than you can count, and is so beautiful it literally burns your eyes, ask you to share her bed for a night, you say yes.

I would. You would, too.

>>48770861
>>48770936
>>48771082
There is, however, one recourse for a Dynast that doesn't Exalt: Sorcery. It won't make you Exalted, you'll never be as good at it or really anything as your exalted brothers and sisters, and it's really only a consolation, but it at least puts you on the radar, makes it so your parents won't completely forget you. It won't be easy, not everyone's cut out for sorcery, but if you're willing to study hard, work hard, and take some risks, you can do it. You'll only ever be able to use Terrestrial spells, and those won't really compare to the charms of an Exalt, but it's something. More importantly, it gives you access to workings. You won't have the huge dice pools Exalts have to meet Goal Numbers, so you'll need to put serious efforts into finding Means to make your projects possible. But you can use those projects to make yourself better. Stringer, faster, never as good as an Exalt but at the peak of what mortals are capable of. If you push yourself, you might even be able to pull off a Celestial working after a few years of work, but it'll be sloppy and hard to control. Put together, it's enough to at least ensure you won't be forgotten, and that's much more than some can claim. If you're really smart and work hard, you might even make a name for yourself, get a pat on the back from your mom and dad.

I imagine the Heptagram is full of mortal students like that, hoping that they can make it so they're not a total disappointment at least.

>>48772783
>If the epitome of perfection made flesh, that is also the Goddess Empress of your nation, who saved your family from destruction more times than you can count, and is so beautiful it literally burns your eyes, ask you to share her bed for a night, you say yes.
What if she has App 1 though?

What's the best way to nerf demon summoning while actually making summoning elementals or using Necromancy a good idea?

>>48772805
You can only summon 2CDs during Calibration.

>>48772798
You seem to labor under the illusion that you would have a choice.

If you were fortunate, that Solar would employ some social charms to make you think she was the most beautiful creature there could ever be, and release you after with such an appreciation for the female form that any woman would be able to bring you ecstasy.

If you were not, she would delight in shocking you with her ugliness, but make you want her anyway. One part of your horrified, another part of you ecstatic. And worse, if she let you go afterwards, no other woman would be able to excite you. Except her, in all her horrid glory.

>>48772852
That assumes she has the fuck charms or social charms and such though. What if she's just a sword maiden with social stats of like 3/3/1 and Literally Every Melee Charm.

>>48772866
By the time she's in control of an empire, she won't just be a melee monster anymore.

But if she was, somehow, then do you want to piss off a woman that could annihilate literal gods without concern?

>>48772844

3CDs, 2CDs can be summoned on a full moon.

>>48772805
Play up the fact that while sorcerously bound demons are willing, loyal, obedient servants, they're _not_ human or even humanoid, and do not understand human customs. (Elementals at least live around humans.) Play demons like hyper autists: offering you raw legs torn off trespassers they caught, carving prayers to Malfeas into your walls, fastidiously spreading a covering of flour on every chair in your house, asking for blood samples, resorting your pantry by alphabetical order in Old Realm, painting over every blue surface in sight, and not understanding why you're so upset, they're only trying to help and be friendly.

>>48772889
Which even the 3E core book emphasizes.

Demons ain't normal, they should never be played as such.

>>48772796
I agree. And when all else fail, those mortals turn to Malfeas or the devious power of Necromancy.

A DB household can be a scary nest of disillusioned mortals trying desperately to matter in the grand scheme of things, if only for a pat on the back. If a demon told you he could give you power, to be something at the very least, not the shadow of your brothers and sisters but really someone, for the small price of your soul? It would take a very, very wilful individual to refuse.

>>48772886
No, I mean, change it so you can only summon 2CDs on Calibration.

>>48772924
>for the small price of your soul? It would take a very, very wilful individual to refuse.
Except they believe in reincarnation. Your soul is a rather larger price in that context. You're giving up all your future lives for this one.

>>48772996
A distant future you won't be around for vs the here and now...

Well, there's a reason those that can endure temptation are lauded, which is because they're so rare. Most would sacrifice that distant future for power now.

>>48772996
And you would be going against everything your parents hold dear, and everything they ever believed.

But would it matter? To have your names be acknowledged by your parents, even if it is only in scorn and hate. To be someone. To live forever, like your brothers and sisters. To have powers you dreamed for decades and decades, as your body slowly aged while your family didn't. To erase that feeling of failure that has accompanied you all your life.

Not all mortal dynast would take the bait. There is a large social conditioning to not. But a number absolutely would.

>>48773091
Except you will be around for it.

Here, lemme try an analogy: How much would I have to pay you today for you to die in five years?

>>48773108
I'll be around for my own reincarnation?

That kinda makes no sense.

>>48773204
The entire doctrine of the Immaculate Order makes no sense if you assume that reincarnation is the death of self. This is perfectly fine, because nobody in Creation assumes that.

>>48773204
I realize you don't believe in reincarnation, but try for a moment to look at it from the perspective of the people who do. They're working from something like a New Game+ perspective on life. Demons are sort of like a cheatcode with the drawback that you have to go for the high score this run, no more tries afterwards.

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>>48772798
Let's say this girl just wrestled a bear, utterly destroyed the evil ghost that was plaguing the country and murdering children, before becoming a divine lightshow of pure golden power seen from miles and miles of beautiful mandalas singing her praises in all the language of Creation.

She asks you to share her bed.

>>48773224
>>48773269
No, I understand that the soul reincarnates, but I always thought that death of the self was in force in Creation. That even though my soul would be reborn, my self wouldn't be.

... and it makes even less sense now. I mean, the Dynasts have no memories of their previous incarnations, which should immediately put paid to the idea that the self reincarnates with the soul, unless they hallucinate memories of past lives. Or I have gravely misunderstood the setting.

>>48773388
I think we're getting into heavy metaphysics territory here. What is a "self"?

All humans in Creation - mortals, Dynasts, Solars - might have past life memories.

>>48773422
Well, they could in 2e (and they could even have First Age past life memories in some cases). It's kinda up in the air in 3e.

>>48773422
>>48773451

So Dynasts could have had First Age memories of being a Solar?

I imagine that couldn't have gone over well with the Immaculates.

>>48773496
Considering the low number of Dynasts in Creation, and the even lower number of First Age Solars, and then the number of times a soul would usually go through reincarnation and have their memories mostly scrubbed between those, the chance of that seems astronomically low.

But it's possible!

Did we ever get a proper Backer Charm file? Is it not actually out yet?

>>48773530
I could just imagine the Immaculates finding out about this Dynast having First Age Solar memories, and interrogating and torturing them and trying to find out Solar secrets, only to have their entire faith shown to be built on lies by those same memories.

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>>48773530
>Dynast with First Age solar memories.
>Tries to juggle what he remembers with the Immaculate truth.
>Huge expectations from his parents.
>His brother exalts, he never.
>Become bitter and bitter as he ages, wallowing in failure.
>A demon comes, offering him power against his soul.
>All his life laid bare before him, all his struggle in vain, everything that he remembers telling him to accept. Urging him to accept.
>Power, greatness, everything he ever dreamed twice.
>His soul wants it. His memories wants it. His pride wants it.
>He is physically sick with the need. The need to be someone, the need to be acknowledged.
>...But he refuses. The most difficult choice that he ever made, in this life or the other.
>The morning come, and with it Luna.

And that, children, is how we make Lunars.

>>48772805
Rather than nerfing demon summoning, make improved versions of the elemental and necromancy summoning spells. Let them summon things of a higher Essence, like Garda birds for example.

>>48773604
It speaks to me of Solar Integrity.

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>>48773657
Could be. But enduring a lifetime of torment and not giving up when everything comes trashing down? That's lunar to me.

>>48773684
Well, Marena there didn't suffer her whole life. She just made the decision that when everything was looking down that she wasn't gonna quit, so Luna came to her.

That one Solar bitch, the Twilight cunt, whatever her name is. She endured a life of sexism and such, but she never Exalted as a Lunar. Enduring doesn't guarantee Lunar trumps everything else.

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>>48773743
>endured a life of sexism
Yeah, about that...

Exalted 2e had a bit of a funny miscoordination on that subject - rampant sexism, like the droit de segneiur in our history, was one of those things that always supposedly happened _elsewhere_ (or elsewhen, in backstories), but couldn't actually be found anywhere now outside of sob stories about why the Other is evil. Every author was writing about how their current subject area of interest was so progressive and presentist that they forgot to actually put in any sexist areas, and so the 2e setting ended up like the joke about the drow as a player race now being composed solely of Chaotic Good rebels yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin. (What kin?)

>>48773604

>The need to be someone, the need to be acknowledged.

This strikes me as an Infernal origin.

>>48773910
To wit, here's what I found when opening a random page in each Compass book and doing a Ctrl-F search for the first mention of "women" forwards.

West:
>The men of Wavecrest became proud of their new standing in the West, while the women found themselves with a higher place in society than most Western women, due to the importance of Wavecrest's agriculture.

East:
>Linowan’s current monarch was selected early by her aunt Renenth, the previous queen, and trained from childhood together with a couple of other candidates. At the time, Renenth herself was a figurehead queen, but a good teacher: Arkasi became queen 10 years ago. The two other women both hold high-ranking positions as well, with Sinnethi becoming the Linowan Ambassador to the Realm

South:
>They have dark chocolate-brown skin. Both men and women often wear their curly black hair down to their shoulders. Brakhani favor caftans of bright fabric adorned with beaded ornaments and brocade.
okay, that's not really saying much, what's the next hit... oh, it's for Brides of Ahlat, the super-elite women-only army.

North:
>The Haslanti have done well for themselves in the last century… so well that the League suffers a surfeit of young men and women with no hope of obtaining farms or herds of their own.
vague again, what's next...
>Most young men and women also spend tours of duty as full-time soldiers in their community’s local militia.
>All sailors in the Ice Squadron are volunteers who already served in their local militias. The captains and officers are career military men and women.

Scavenger Lands:
>The Guild’s headquarters is in a 12-story First Age tower near the center of the Nexus District. The lower three floors are a high-quality combination of department store and brothel where everything and everyone is for sale. Beautiful men and women model the latest fashions and hawk the latest high-quality goods.

I'm not /pol/ and I don't object to this, FWIW. I just think it's bizarre.

>>48773644
The main issue I have with it is that demon summoning is too versatile. With a little thought you can essentially make a demon to cover any situation which I don't particular care for. I'm thinking of just simply breaking up Demon Summoning so you have to pay XP for each demon and whatever it takes to get them IC.

>>48774116
But that would actually be going against the fluff.

Demons are versatile and they are used as such by summoners in the fluff.

What I would do is put a limit on the number you can have at a time. A limit like [Essence + Occult] in bound demons at a time, equal to Occult, or even [Occult/2] rounded down.

Of course, if you do limit it that way, there should be Charms created to allow the limit to be raised later as the Exalt grows in Essence.

>>48774116
>With a little thought you can essentially make a demon to cover any situation
Ban this.
Seriously, this is why druids used to be so broken in D&D, their shapeshifting powers effectively improved every time a new monster was published.
Now you're doing the equivalent of letting druids write their own animals to wildshape into. Don't.

>>48774185
This too. You create any demons, not the players.

>>48774183
>What I would do is put a limit on the number you can have at a time. A limit like [Essence + Occult] in bound demons at a time, equal to Occult, or even [Occult/2] rounded down.

This solution looks incredibly ugly, hacky, and shortsighted. The 3e corebook specifically calls out sorcerers as being able to easily amass large amounts of demons that should be represented as battle groups.

Besides, if you only impose it on personal bindings, I'll resort to task bindings, and if you impose the limit on task bindings, it makes no sense.

>>48774247
*shrug*

I was just offering ideas to the anon who had a problem with players summoning demons.

>>48774183
>>48774265
How about changing it to [something based on Occult] TYPES of demon known to stop demonology by splatbook?

>>48774185
>>48774195
That'll work, I'll probably add in that an individual can only summon and bind a single 2CD each year with them returning at the end of the year. Later on, I'll add in some stuff to let them summon more than one or retain them for longer.

Give Demon Summoning a mote cost and say it's commited. Every health level sacrificed under the summoning counts as 2m, these health levels cannot be healed while the demon is summoned, and they don't need to be your own.

Task-Binding should also be more expensive than Personal Binding.

Killing a person completely under the sacrifice will mean that the demon is effectively summoned indefinetely since they cannot be uncommited.

Tadah! Now sorcerers who summon demons will either restrict their own potential or sacrifice health levels (such as other people) when summoning demons.

>>48774352
2nd Circle shouldn't be the problem.

Those are a bitch to summon and bind, and since they can only be summoned once per month, your players shouldn't get many of them.

>>48774436
Fuck you in particular, and will people in general *please* stop trying to "fix" demon summoning in Exalted by making it corrupting, debilitating, etc? You have pretty much every other fantasy game for that. Exalted's demons are supposed to be alien slaves, not evil tempters. Exalted's demonology should under no circumstances involve blood sacrifice. Exalted's setting is written on the historical premise that THE DEMONS LOST AND THE EXALTED WON, so now the demons are at the beck and call of the exalts, and sorcery is the means of that call.

>>48774507
I think the Anon who had the problem with his players summoning demons was kind of at fault himself by letting his players create the demons they summoned.

>>48774442
>your players shouldn't get many of them.

His players are slacking then.

1x 3rd Circle
16x 2nd circle
405x 1st Circle

Minus casualties / long-term task bound obviously

>>48774949
Someone summoning so many demons is going to draw notice from everyone, Sidereals included. Who can summon their demons to set upon the Solars.

It's a numbers game that an exploitative player can't beat.

>>48775036
Except for the 3CD which is going to set off all sorts of alarm bell, that's just efficiency. Any sensible sorcerer would keep that contingent around if they're able

>>48773388
>No, I understand that the soul reincarnates, but I always thought that death of the self was in force in Creation. That even though my soul would be reborn, my self wouldn't be.
The concept of 'self' is a philosophical construct. To people living in Exalted's setting, the 'self' is almost certainly identified with the hun, the ethereal part of them that goes to the afterlife or becomes a ghost and acts as the primary seat of consciousness.

To people with a materialistic modernist view of the self, it's likely the 'self' is the combination of the hun-po-brain system. Or, alternately, the hun is the self, but going through Lethe is the equivalent to deleting a file on your computer - i.e. it removes the file (the self) permanently.

But people in Creation don't think about the self that way, because that perspective on the self effectively renders religions centered around reincarnation (as most of Creation's religions are) a pointless waste of time.

>>48775063
Well, the 3CD requires a Solar to be at Essence 5, so I suppose a Solar at that level should have armies already.

But why would an Essence 5 Solar God-King waste their time with 1CDs? That's what your DB sorcerer minions are for. You should be summoning the big dogs.

>>48774442
Summon Second Circle Demon amounts to Summon New Party Member because 2CDs have relevant competence in their area of expertise somewhere in the ballpark of an actual Solar. Is Octavian going to beat out an E3 combat-specced character? Probably not. But the summoner gets to summon Octavian, and then keep doing everything else they were going to do, for the cost of like two Charms. The same applies to, say, Mara and the Party Seductress, or Alvuea and the Party Craftsman.

It's a fucking stupid spell.

>>48773910
There were plenty of sexist as hell places in Creation, like Chiaroscuro or the Coral Archipelago. The problem was, none of the characters who dealt with rampant sexism actually came from those places.

>>48775136
You can only summon 2CD once a month and 3CD in Calibration

Rest of the year, more bood apes is never a bad thing

>>48775166
And? Quit your bitching. 2CD are super focused on one thing. It's a shitty player that hyper-focuses on one aspect(saw a player do that once... social monkey with Int 1 Per 1 - refused to accept they were playing a blind retard), so they're useful only in limited circumstances.

>>48775205
Isn't that what I said here >>48774442 ? Once a month?

>>48775087
>Or, alternately, the hun is the self, but going through Lethe is the equivalent to deleting a file on your computer - i.e. it removes the file (the self) permanently.

Thats...not really what deleting a file does.

For computers, deleting a file means removing it from the index or marking it to be ignored. This would be akin to the partial memories of celestial exaltation. Some of the memories are still there but there's no reference to find them with.

The Lethe is more like overwriting or reformating. All the data is set to 0. All the memories are changed to nothingness.You can try to remember but all you'd get is a big nothingness.

>>48775284
I thought about mentioning doing a 7-pass erase but I figured everybody would understand what I meant and not nitpick. Thank you for proving me wrong.

>>48771366
>>48771485
This is stupid. Playing a DB in a mixed splat game tells a specific kind of story, this isn't DnD where every splat is assumed to be equal (even though they are not). So much of a charmset's power is at essence 1-2 that your houserule would in no way explain why Solars are such a threat.

Exalted is really about playing for the setting, and making Dragonblooded as strong as Solars would destroy that.

Fuck Pets in rpgs in particular. They are never done well, thought out, or even interesting.

>>48774507
I don't care much for how demons are right now, I think they're fine.

I was only giving suggestions.

I don't want to judge what people do at their table, as long as I'm not part of it.

Though I would argue that Demon Summoning should totally involve blood sacrifice if you're a mortal summoner, because sorcerers are strange and fucked up by normal standards and blood sacrifice has been able to power Thaumaturgy since like First Edition.

>>48775543
Just to inquire, but how would you do them? I'm honestly curious.

>>48775624
Not that anon, but I'd make them the equivalent to magical items. They'd give you a bonus at certain things.

>>48771166
Aren't they also big on the idea that if an affair is not too public, fuck it?

>>48776001
Yes. Keep it discreet, no kids with the minions.

>>48776001
As long as it's gay or you're using maiden tea, I guess so.

Can we get some Exalted art? Preferably Abyssal, Infernal, or Alchemical.

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>>48776159

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>>48776272

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>>48776293

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Huh. Art seems to have nearly killed the thread.

So what do you guys like about Exalted?

Personally, I'm here for the setting and pretty much nothing else. I find that the mechanics, wording, dev team, release schedule, and editing all kinda stink.

>>48778153
>So what do you guys like about Exalted?

I mostly just pay attention to Exalted out of habit these days. I feel like after investing 15 years and hundreds of dollars into the gameline, it would be a waste to quit now.

>>48778153

I get bored of rules light systems quickly; sure I'll play them but it's easy to cover all the possible discussion ground when your system amounts to 10-20 pages, so there's nothing to keep me engaged if I'm not actually playing the game. So Exalted being chunky--and high quality for its chunk--is good for me.

Honestly saying the "setting" is a draw for me feels kind of disingenuous, because I just do not give a shit about any canon places or canon NPCs; I like the overall setup of Creation and the big political blocs therein (Realm, Threshold, Exalts, gods, etc.), but if you asked me literally anything about Nexus other than "it's an objectivist hellhole," I couldn't tell you. It's just easier for me to make up places.

>>48778364

I've never even played the game or spent money on it and I'm here anyway.

>>48770936

While you'd still be a failure and your life would suck, the DBs think that their Exaltations are earned in their previous life (fun fact: they're not wrong). So no matter what you do, no matter how hard you train, it's pre-ordained which brother Exalts and which doesn't.

This doesn't stop kids from doing crazy rituals out of desperation for an Exaltation, however, but it is silly superstition that you drop as an adult.

>>48778425
Yeah, the large scale is what I had in mind too. So many settings appear to have a cosmology that goes a) rip off half-remembered D&D and quarter-remembered christian myth, b) lazily invert a trope somewhere.
It's a breath of fresh air to read about the powers of Exalted and their history by comparison.

>>48778463
Same, I pretty much just like the concept of Exalted and the generalities about the setting. The mechanics behind it can go die in a fire though, fortunately, there are conversions that I'm interested in.

>>48778153
>So what do you guys like about Exalted?
Playing as divine god-kings. Being the most important people in the setting. Small things like that.

S'why I play Godbound too.

>>48773224

The entire doctrine of Buddhism and Hinduism makes no sense if you assume that reincarnation is the death of the self. This is perfectly fine, because nobody on Earth assumes that.

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How does Godbound compare to to Exalted? Better? Worse?

>>48778732

Different beasts. Godbound's lighter and intentionally kind of setting agnostic because it wants to plug into the grander OSR framework.

Godbound is more Scion-shaped than Exalted, honestly; you're not really shaped by what kind of god you are compared to what you're god "of," like a Scion.

So, I understand that when approaching the Elemental Poles, the appropriate elemental Essence becomes stronger and stronger until there is no room left for any other kind of Essence... but what about the far side of the Poles? What's it like when you pass a Pole and start heading towards the Wyld?

>>48780764

Moving Earth-ward or Wyld-ward from the Pole of Fire will both gradually reintroduce other kinds of essence back into the world around you, but one will do it in a stable, metered way (steadily adding the inluence of the other 4 Poles), while the other (because of the fact that going outside the Poles drops you into Deep Wyld without the middling Marches) will do it more like a churning storm; you'll get pockets of solid Fire intermingling with more balanced patches, or even extremes of the other elements.

>>48778153
Kind of what >>48778639 said. Though not as much god-kings as the idea of Exaltation itself. The idea of this core of immense power power being shoved into you and changing you into something more.

To be honest I got into Exalted through Infernals and I really like the idea of getting strange alien powers while slowly becoming something other than human. Plus I think the idea of Devil Tigers is cool.

>>48778153

I also have to admit that I don't care for the setting that much. I don't like Eastern concept of all these minor gods and spirits everywhere. I also don't care for the Underworld.

So any recent news on EX3? Talks on how completed the different splats are?

>>48781463

Everyone's sleeping off Gencon, I think.

>>48778153
>So what do you guys like about Exalted?

I like the setting, and I like the "magical realism" aspect of Creation. I love approaching it from a mortal standpoint primarily, because it will make everything seem terrifying and weird.

I love Malfeas and Autochthonia and I like Yu-Shan.

The Underworld is worthless shite though.

Same with the Wyld.

>>48778732
Godbound is OSR. What that ends up meaning is that gameplay in which all Dungeon Crawl Worries are removed, for the large part, is a very simple, and compared to Exalted exceedingly sleek system.

Does this mean the system is nuanced? Deep? Full of plenty of very different feeling options?

Nah. But not every game needs those. You're not going to really be able to build as deep of a combat build as you can in Exalted. Whichever you end up preferring is up to you.

One of the biggest differences I find is that Godbound puts its PCs above mortals to the point of having entirely different HP systems for Mortals vs Supernaturals, so a starting SOCIALITE Godbound is just as capable of ignoring the best of the best of the best mortal warriors as the mountain-hurling warrior, he's just no where near as directly helpful when fighting Parasite Gods and shit from outside the world and whatnot.

Really I guess it's a matter of which setting you like running, and Godbound tries to be a lot grander on the setting, and also a lot more apocalyptic. Heaven is broken! The engines that keep reality together have been ripped apart! Parasite gods suck worlds dry! Shit! Damn! It's bleaker, in that way, but with the assumption that you CAN try and stop reality from breaking further/fix it with a lot of gumption

>>48774116
Honestly, the key difference between Demons and Elementals is that demons are specialists and Elementals are generalists. A blood ape can smash things, but I'd advice against letting it social-fu anyone unless it's to intimidate them. Flame Ducks are martial artists, but can also do social stuff and a few other things.

I stand by what I said. Don't nerf demons, just make improved versions of Summon Elemental. And maybe limit the amount of summons a person can have.

GUYS QUICK

A WYLD HUNT JUST JUMPED A NEWLY-EXALTED ZENITH IN THE MIDDLE OF A CANYON TOWN WHILE WE WERE PASSING THROUGH

SHOULD WE INTERVENE Y/N

>>48782220

Who's we? Fellow Solars? Opportunistic Sidereals? Another Wyld Hunt?

>>48782240
WE'RE ALSO SOLARS

BUT THEY DON'T KNOW THAT YET (AS FAR AS WE KNOW)

>>48782220
Yes because your GM would be happy, no because fuck that guy he ain't your problem, let him die. Yes because having a zenith in your debt is good shit.

>>48782220

Obviously you should intervene.

Look, if you guys are a Circle, you'll give the Wyld Hunt a fucking pasting. And every Solar who survives means that the day of reckoning is coming.

I mean, if you're the guy who thinks 'ain't my problem' how did you even Exalt in the first place.

>>48771485

Why would you bother? The whole point of the setting is that the Solars were insanely powerful. The loss of them was something that the Dragon-blooded couldn't make up for, and the realm gradually fell to shit.

Remember, there were 300 Solars and untold thousands of Dragon-blooded. If the DBs were as powerful as the Solars - individually, or even in large numbers - then the loss of the Solar Exalted shouldn't have affected the setting the way it did.

To be frank, I don't get this weird egalitarian idea. Like, the game is set-up for you to play Solars or at least Celestial Exalted working together. (Since Solars, Abyssals and Infernals are arguably on the same level, though I personally think Infernals are weaker.)

>>48783295
I blame Avatar and all the fucking element benders.

Everyone wants to throw fire or dance water around or some shit, and they get all asspained when a golden god-king casually wrecks their shit.

>>48783345

Yeah, it's like...You know how everyone thinks having super-strength is boring?

Super-strength is the best power, man. Fireballs might be pretty, but the man with super-strength can just put his fucking fist through you.

He doesn't need to fuck around with weird interpretative dance moves and shit. He just needs to punch you to kill you.

>>48783295
Because my player wants to play a DB for story elements/conceptual space/etc, but nobody wants to either a) have one party member be constantly dunked on whenever their competence even vaguely touches on another's, or b) have to figure out how many billions of extra XP I have to give them to let them keep up.

And it doesn't even prevent Dragon-Blooded from being awesome! It's just that they have to watch themselves a bit more, and work together in a Sworn Brotherhood where the others cover your weaknesses just as you cover theirs and you all work together as a bunch of hypercoordinated elemental sociopaths.

I think the idea that Dragon-Bloods should rival Solars on a personal scale is ridiculous, and I've basically played nothing else than them since First Edition.

>>48783540

Then he's not a good fit for the game.

>>48783585
Great solution. Just kick people out of your group when they want play a splat you think has the intrinsic need to be shittier in fifteen different ways.

>>48783620
DB are shitty compared to Solars, full fucking stop. If your Avatar fanboy absolutely must suck elemental cock, then either everyone plays benders, or nobody does and he gets to go fellate Asian Boy in someone else's game.

>>48783701
>DB are shitty compared to Solars, full fucking stop.
As a setting fact, DBs as a whole are shitty compared to Solars. There are plenty of DBs who are rivals or superior to individual Solars, however. Fuck off dweeb.

>>48783716

There are? I can't remember any, in canon. Peleps Deled and Wind? Or did they never meet?

>>48783918
How do you fancy your chargen character's chances against an Essence 5 Dragon Blooded?

>>48783950

One-on-one? Pretty good odds.

>>48783382
>Super-strength is the best power, man. Fireballs might be pretty, but the man with super-strength can just put his fucking fist through you.
That doesn't make it less boring. Supernatural powers can do all sorts of fantastic things that someone with enhanced human abilities will never be able to duplicate, even if they can rival them in sheer power. Magic is just more fantastic than strength.

It doesn't make it more effective, either. The fact that people with enhanced human abilities are stronger than people who can command the forces of nature is a setting conceit in Exalted; it's not because super strength is just plain better. In other settings (One Piece, for example), it can easily be the other way around, with elemental-powered people having a clear and significant advantage over those whose powers are simply being super strong or super skilled.

>>48783716

Yeah, Exalted isn't really made for playing mixed groups. Unless you're all DBs or all Sidereals, shit falls apart fast. And even those kinds of campaigns are completely different from an all-Solar campaign.

Sidereals don't usually just roam around doing good, for instance. They have missions and all that. Solars are the closest to the standard adventuring party of misfits you can get.

>>48783950
How do you fancy the DB's chances against an E5 Solar?

>>48783918

The one extreme example I can think of is that one in Scroll of the Exalts who mastered all of the Immaculate Dragon styles.

Solar or not, I'd rather not fight that asshole solo.

>>48784780
Why? It's not like he can use more than one at a time, and every one of them falls short of Solar Hero, much less Solar Melee.

>>48784780

He's actually surprisingly weak, all things considered. As he can't use Prismatic Array of Creation, he can't use multiple form-type charms. Also, most of his stats are geared towards sparring practice and so on.

Sure he's pretty deadly, but he's still ultimately using gimped styles. And only one of them at a time, too. However, he *is* rock-hard and his Perfected Kata Bracers can make him really nasty.

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>>48773382
commit suicide.

that kinda shit is the stuff that only death can save you from.

>come, on, at least be App2

>>48773604
Lunars? what?

are we talking the right game?

Lunars are usually of Barbarian, Quisling, or are generally furry in nature. they like hard natural stuff and being less mercurial than fae, but enough to be wild and animalist, but still barbaric and heroic.

Why are the previews not in the drive or media fire?

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>>48778153
>Personally, I'm here for the setting and pretty much nothing else.

>>48781382
>I don't like Eastern concept of all these minor gods and spirits everywhere
>all these minor gods and spirits everywhere
>Eastern

>>48785530

I suspect because why would you even want them? There's no real meat on the things.

>>48785755
The abyssal one had two little charm trees

>>48783233
>how did you even Exalt in the first place.
That day, it WAS my problem.

>>48785817
No, Anon is referring to the stipulation that Exaltations only come to people that would be willing to use that power.

Someone who constantly whines, "It's not MY problem!" doesn't qualify.

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>>48778153
>I find that the mechanics, wording, dev team, release schedule, and editing all kinda stink.

>>48785950
There's that Exalt that only uses his power to murder people and sleep with their wives, isn't there?

The process isn't perfect.

>>48786283
Still uses his power. Maybe one of the people he kills would have Exalted as an Infernal or something and ended Creation, had he survived to that point.

Saved the world, thinking with his dick.

>>48786368
Yeah, but the point is there's nothing stopping an Exalt from both being a selfish dick that doesn't do anything that doesn't directly affect him and using his powers often.

>>48785710
Isn't Shinto really big on that kind of stuff?

>>48786425
Again, using his powers.

You seem to labor under the misapprehension that Solars(or any Exalt) is supposed to be Lawful Good. They're not. Each and every one determines their own path.

>>48786477
No, that's exactly my point. Leaving the Zenith in the original question to die because 'it ain't my problem' is in no way incompatible with being the kind of person who'd Exalt.

>>48770861
One of the players in a game that I'm in lived exactly that life. He studied as hard as he could but he never exalted, he never even got mortal sorcery.

He was considered useless and was sent far out into the threshold where he could explore dangerous ruins potentially getting killed. It's all he could do as he hoped to find something that would make him powerful.

He recently exalted as a solar though which gives him the power he wanted and more, but makes things very complicated.

>>48772852
This feels like a situation where most GMs would invoke the Red Rule.

>>48786747
That example is entirely fluff, in which there are no 'players' involved.

>>48772796
I really like the idea of a mortal who slowly over the years used working after working on themselves to become more powerful, eventually becoming strong enough to create several celestial workings.

They would have power rivaling that of a true exalt, and they build it through their own means.

The power came at a price though. As they performed the workings there were, side effects. They've become an inhuman monster over the course of their experiments, full of strange desires and needs, but they finally claimed power.

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>>48773558
The file is out, here you go.

>>48786925
Might want to slice the 7-digit number off the end of that filename: It's your order number.

>>48787050

It's too late, I have already messaged Holden and Morke.

>>48786925
This isn't the updated version, thanks though.

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>>48786925
Thanks m8. I'm reading it right now. Giving you dragon and legs in return.

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>>48786788
Interesting thoughts.

What would be the difficulty of a sorcerous working made to redirect the effect an exaltation? Not transfer it from a body to another (it's explicitly very, very difficult, almost impossible), but let's say a coffin that, while a DB is inside in magical sleep, make the owner have all the benefits of being a DB.

>>48788003
Solar 3 unless it's transferring the power to a direct descendant as a quasi-Dynasty effect, then Solar 1, but you'd need Finesse 5 to be able to pick the beneficiary

>>48772550
here's how a solar rape would go

king: I'm gonna rape u
solar: no you're not,
king: I'm Gonna Rape U!
solar: no you're not.
king: I'M GONNA RAPE U!
solar: No You're Not!
king: [attempts to rape her]
solar: [absolutely annihilates king with one spell]
court-jester: my God you killed the king!
solar: he tried to rape me
court-jester: why the fuck did he try to rape you? Did he have any Idea how stupid that is?
solar: I guess not.
wizard: my God you killed the king!
solar: he tried to rape me
wizard: why the fuck did he try to rape you? Did he have any Idea how stupid that is?
solar: I guess not.
court-jester: that's what I said!

and so on

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>>48788150
It is years since I've read that scene, but I think the rational was that the king should not know than the Solar was a Solar, so the scene was more like:

king: I'm gonna rape u
solar: Oh noes I can't kill him because the DBs would know! I will be raped!

Which is especially jarring because that solar was full spec Performance/Manipulation, with everything it entails in mind-control, memory manipulation charms, emotion manipulation charms, etc. So the scene should have been more like:

king: I'm gonna rape u
solar: *play a little tune*
king: I don't want to rape u anymore, I want to give you all my fortune and also I want to ban rape in my country and cut my balls and feed them to the dogs.

>>48784009
I don't think this should be the case, and I'm not sure it is the case. An Essence 5 Dragon-Blooded should be able to more or less match a starting Exalt within his specialty and surpass him in other areas.

>>48772550
Never messed around with full on rape, but I did enjoy messing around with a very powerful lorelei and having her bend my solar around her finger via mindrape.

Fun times.

>>48781530
>One of the biggest differences I find is that Godbound puts its PCs above mortals to the point of having entirely different HP systems for Mortals vs Supernaturals, so a starting SOCIALITE Godbound is just as capable of ignoring the best of the best of the best mortal warriors as the mountain-hurling warrior, he's just no where near as directly helpful when fighting Parasite Gods and shit from outside the world and whatnot.

Wait, it's been a loooong time since I did anything Exalted, but isn't this the case for Exalted as well? The whole 'extras' system and all that?

>>48781530
>One of the biggest differences I find is that Godbound puts its PCs above mortals to the point of having entirely different HP systems for Mortals vs Supernaturals, so a starting SOCIALITE Godbound is just as capable of ignoring the best of the best of the best mortal warriors as the mountain-hurling warrior, he's just no where near as directly helpful when fighting Parasite Gods and shit from outside the world and whatnot.

It's Pathfinder Mythic thinking. Instead of doing an interesting, gradual system where charms allow you to become better and better at some things, all Godbound's powers begins with:

- Those powers can't be countered or cancelled by non-mythic characters ever, even if he is the best wizard of the world or an epic fighter. Those powers ignore all resistance, all saving throws and all armors that are non-mythic.

Which, of course, is highly uninteresting as a system.

It is a badly designed Pathfinder class after all. What do you expect, really? It's like you're discovering this fact right now.

>>48790169
Extras are just narratively unimportant bystanders, which are usually mortals. But mortals aren't necessarily extras, and can be powerful characters in the plot, or have skill to at least challenge some Exalts. Non-extras have the same health rules as everyone else.

>>48790213
>Which, of course, is highly uninteresting as a system.
Look at all these hot opinions. There is nothing objectively wrong with a game where the truly powerful just are in an entirely different, unreachable, untouchable level than regular mortals. You don't like it? Fair enough.That doesn't make it bad or untinteresting design, though.

>>48790169
Well, in Exalted, you can play an heroic mortal and still have a chance of going against Exalts - if only nominally, for some time. The system doesn't make the distinction between a particularly skilled mortal and an Exalt, except that the Exalt has powers beyond mortal kens of course. The extra system is made to simulate non-heroic mortals that are just so below everyone, you don't have to accurately try to simulate them. But any hero, be it mortal or Exalt, follows the same rules.

Any mortal hero can spend willpower to resist your mindfuck, by instance.

In Godbound, any non-divine character (mortal heroes, mortal wizards, mortal epic level 25 druids) is helpless against divine magic. They can't resist divine magic, they die automatically to divine disintegration, have no mean to resist divine mind-control, etc.

It's a systemic choice. A boring choice, mind you, but a choice.

>>48790246
>There is nothing objectively wrong [...]

Yes, it is. Objectively wrong.

Why? Because it means your characters automatically ignore every single creature of d20, every single enemies, every single spell, every single entries of the OSR system that is not divine, creating a huge swat of situations where there is no challenge.

And the automatic result will be that your GM will overcompensate by slapping divine to everything, if he wants to give you challenge - slapping divine to everything is even encouraged by the rules! So you'll get divine orcs, divine mindflayers, divine tarasques... When the only difference between one regular and one divine tarasque is that the divine tarasque is not automatically disintegrated by divine disintegration.

It is a clusterfuck in pending. Just like Mythic, but way worse.

>>48788150
>king: I'm gonna rape u
>solar: no you're not,
>king: I'm Gonna Rape U!
>solar: no you're not.
>king: I'M GONNA RAPE U!
>solar: No You're Not!
>king: [attempts to rape her]
>solar: [takes it in every hole until king passes out from exhaustion]
>court-jester: B-but...
>wizard: What?
>solar: Can't rape the willing.
Fixed for accuracy.

>>48790297
Again, there is nothing wrong with that. Those areas where there is no challenge are obviously not meant to be the focus of the game. Divine beings engaging challenges worthy of divine beings, and sometimes easily pvercoming lesser challenges, is what the game's about. There is, I repeat, nothing wrong with that. Campaigns like that can be fun. Every game being like that would be boring, some games being like that is fine. You are mistaking your own, entirely subjective preferences with objective facts.

>>48772796
>>48786788
I really like these ideas. One sec, I'll see if I can slap together a stat block for this guy.

>>48786925
>>48787684

The updated version has one new charm, yeah? Does anyone have the plain text of it?

>>48790932
>Blade-Turning Body Technique
Cost: 5m
Mins: Resistance 4, Essence 2
Type: Simple
Keywords: Apocryphal, Dual
Duration: One scene
Prerequisites: Iron Skin Concentration

Through rigorous training and the fortifying might of her Essence, the Solar learns to harden her skin until it can resist blade and flame alike as well as a suit of fine armor. While this Charm is active, the Solar is immune to incidental injury such as being cut by glass when crashing through a window, or bloodying her knuckles on a fore’s jaw. She can ignore outright any environmental damage that would burn or lacerate her body of 3L or lower intensity, though she remains fully vulnerable to more insidious forms of damage such as freezing cold or deadly fumes.

The Solar gains 8 soak against withering attacks while this Charm is active, along with 5 hardness. Blade-Turning Body Technique is incompatible with both armor and with Diamond-Body Prana.

>On Blade-Turning Body Technique:
The backer wanted a defensive soak option for his shirtless (his word) Solar, but without the variability of Diamond-Body Prana. The resulting Charm is Apocryphal because it uses the design logic of Solar armor-creating Charms. It averages out the soak-granting result of Diamond-Body Prana, but loses a bit of power in its incidental resistances to compensate for its reliability, along with the possibility of being further strengthened by Martial Arts Charms.

So how cliche would it be for a Solar to start with a DB Fire Aspect minion bought with Retainers 4?

The idea is that in public, the relationship appears reversed, with the Solar playing the part of the DB's retainer(to hide his true capability), while in private the DB is the Solar's slave/bed warmer/maid.

>>48791210

Not really cliche. Just need a justification as to why a DB is palling around with Anathema. Not just your one as well, because you'll likely be part of a circle.

>>48791214
The idea I had was that this relationship(her belonging to the Solar) existed before she Exalted as DB. So, that would be the reason. She's basically indoctrinated into her loyalty to him.

>>48791234

If she grew up in the Realm then she grew up with the Immaculate Faith. If she's not from the Threshold, then how does she reconcile her religion and her love for her master?

>>48791275
Nah, she wasn't a DB until recently, and she never lived on the Isle. She was taken as a slave as a young child, and raised to be obedient and loyal to her master, whoever might own her at the time. She was never educated in the Immaculate faith because, well, she was just a slave and not worth the time and effort.

The Solar bought her a few years back, then later Exalted as a Solar. About a year prior to the game start, she Exalted as a DB, but her conditioning remains firm(mechanically, she has a Defining Tie and a Defining Principle to represent her conditioning).

I've been trying to find out what the conditions for an DB Exaltation are, but all I've found is 'they're born with it'.

>>48791347

>they're born with it'

That's basically it. They're born with the possibility of Exalting, with the possibility being higher the better the breeding, an the actual Second Breath happens during adolescence, typically during a moment when emotions/hormones run high.

>>48791347
Or maybe it's Maybelline?

Terrestrial Exaltations are basically genetics. Either you got it from your folks or not. Through stress helps you take the Second Breath, so teenage DBs do get put through the wringer in school and by their families.

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>>48790804
>>48790804

Mnemon Carthus
Born a Dynast on the Blessed Isle, Mnemon Carthus was one of the many unfortunate souls that failed to exalt. Rather than be condemned to a life of obscurity and disappointment, however, Carthus turned to sorcery for a way to stay relevant in the grand scheme of fate. Graduating with top honors from the Heptagram, Carthus set to work on a series of projects intended to grant him power equal to that of his dragonblooded kin. 200 years later, and Carthus is still alive. Through countless experiments, workings, and close shaves with death, Carthus was able to attain the power which he sought. The end result, however, was quite unpleasant. Now barely human, Carthus' soul is so twisted that the Immaculates can only guess what will happen when he returns to the cycle of reincarnation. He may even have been cast out by his peers, were it not for his ingeniousness. Though many find his presence distasteful at best, none can deny that he is perhaps one of the most talented mortal Sorcerers in centuries.

Ironically enough, had Carthus been born a few centuries later, he may very well have attracted the attention of a solar shard, or else one of it's dark mirrors. Yet today his soul is so twisted that the shards of the exalted recoil from it, ensuring that Carthus can never become exalted no matter how much he may desire it.

--Statblock---
Strength: 5
Dexterity: 5
Stamina: 5
Perception: 4
Intelligence: 5
Wits: 4
Charisma: 2
Manipulation: 3
Appearance: 5 (Hideous) or 2 (See Mortal Trappings and Ascendant Visage)

Archery: 4 (Projectile Quills +1)
Athletics: 5 (Feats of Strength+1)
Awareness: 4
Brawl: 5
Craft (Alchemy): 5
Dodge: 5
Integrity: 4
Linguistics: 3
Lore: 5
Medicine: 5
Occult: 5
Presence: 3 (Intimidation +1)
Resistance: 5 (Toxins+1)
Socialize: 2
Stealth: 3
Survival: 4

Essence: 1
Willpower: 5
Health Levels: -0/-1x6/-2x6/-4/Incap.
Evasion: 5
Parry: 5
Soak: 10
Resolve: 4
Guile: 3
Read Intentions: 6 dice

>>48791365
>>48791366
I see. Hmm.

Maybe she was critically wounded while separated from her master, and Exalted in self-defense.

Or out of jealousy that she would be replaced.

>>48791409
>most talented mortal Sorcerer in centuries

Starting Solars would do better. Imagine how that would rankle.

>>48791409
---Merits---
Terrestrial Circle Sorcery - Mnemon Carthus is initiated into the Terrestrial circle of sorcery. He has the first Scarred by Nightmares shaping ritual, and knows all spells of the Terrestrial circle (with Corrupted Words being his control spell). He has gained his powers through carefully constructed Workings, most of the Terrestrial circle. Several more workings are dedicated solely to counteracting other sorcerers' attempts to nullify the Workings on his body.

Ageless Body: Through sorcery, Carthus has become immune to aging. Swords, disease, and poisons will all still kill him, but age and abilities which age the target have no effect on him. The method through which he maintains this limited immortality is a closely held secret, and the ST is encouraged to think up his own methods. He may need to bath in virgin blood under the full moon, or he may need to hibernate for a month every year, or whatever other method the ST can think of. However, if this condition is not met, Carthus' body will rapidly age, turning to dust within seconds.

(Cont, cause 4chan charlimit's a bitch)

>>48791432
Ascendant Visage: In his attempts to match his dragonblooded kin, Carthus has changed himself so drastically that he is barely human. As a dramatic action, Carthus may assume his Ascendant Visage, a disturbing insectoid form roughly the size of a large horse. While in this form, he is considered to have all of the supernatural merits listed in the core book. He may also continue to cast spells while in this form. His soul is so twisted by sorcery, that the shards of the exalted can no longer recognize him as human. As a result, Carthus may never exalt under any circumstances. Even the shards of the Infernals and Abyssals reject him.

Mortal Trappings: As a dramatic action, Carthus may assume the form of a simple human being. This human form is always the same, he may never use this ability as a way of disguising himself. He loses the Hideous merit along with all supernatural merits, and his Appearance drops down to 2. His attributes and abilities, however, remain the same. Though he may wear the skin of a normal mortal, his insides are still twisted and unnatural. If Carthus suffers at least one HL of Lethal damage, all characters within the area may attempt a Difficulty 3 Perception+Awareness check to notice that Carthus is not what he appears to be; His wounds festers, his blood is tinged a subtle shade of green.

>>48791430
Precisely. He might be one of the best mortal sorcerers, but he's still "a mortal sorcerer". Solars will easily outshine him, and even dragonblooded can outdo him if they pop an excellency. Even after all that, he's -still- not equal. His primary advantage then is Workings, he'll never beat a dawn in a fight or out-sorcery a Twilight, but if you don't find and stop him before he sets off his workings, you're in for a bad time.

>>48791503
Twilights aren't even 3e's setting's primary sorcerers

>>48791432
>Through sorcery, Carthus has become immune to aging. The method through which he maintains this limited immortality is a closely held secret, and the ST is encouraged to think up his own methods.

Here's what comes to mind for me: he's done/is doing a series of Workings, each of which adds umpty (50?) years to his life expectancy, and each of which needs to be a step higher than the previous to be effective. Now he's working against a deadline, scrabbling for Means as the Celestial workings get ever harder for a Terrestrial sorcerer to pull off.

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>>48791210
>So how cliche would it be for a Solar to start with a DB Fire Aspect minion bought with Retainers 4?

Somewhat cliché. You weren't the first to think about hiding your Solar character in a DB retinue, and certainly not the first to think about private role reversal.

One of my player did the same thing, though the DB in question was just heavily mindcontrolled into forgetting everything about that particular slave. Complete with trigger words and everything.

>>48785950
>Exaltations only come to people that would be willing to use that power.
In that moment. Long term action is not a factor, in addition to the fact that exaltations don't give a shit about you helping other people to begin with, that's why I responded the way I did.

You don't have to act for anyone but yourself.

>>48786466
As is Greek mythology, all Germanic mythology, Celtic mythology, Roman mythology, Slavic mythology.

It's the lack of those things that's weird.

>>48791642
I want to avoid the entire mindcontrol thing. I want the DB's loyalty to be entirely voluntary.

>>48791749
I don't know if a religious system followed by over half the humans alive counts as weird.

>>48786283

Not really. He's actually causing the Varang to doubt their caste system. In 2E, we see that Havesh actually has a mission - He's pursuing his Lunar mate. (He shows up in the Rolls of Glorious Divinity - He kills a man at the behest of a murder spirit, the ones with bloody right hands, then grumpily asks whether it has the information he wants.)

Remember, Havesh was a 1E character. Shit has changed a lot since then. Sort of how Demethus went from a cheerful bruiser to someone who was constantly angsting over Kidale.

>>48791775
Until the reform, saints were believed to be everywhere, looking for you, intercessing for you. There were more powerful saints and less powerful saints, and some had power over water, forge, storms, war, husbandry, and what not. In 14th century Holy Roman Empire, it was common to pray to a particular saint for something, and another for something else.

The only differences between saints and spirits are cosmetics. After all, everywhere in the world, people are the same, and want the same thing spiritually.

>>48791412
While they generally exalt under stress it doesn't need to be anything epic. School yard fights (for dynasts and other nobility), a grandparent dying or being forced to leave a childhood home would all be appropriate.

Keep in mind that pretty much everyone in the late second age has a little bit of Dragon Blood in them and every so often children are born with enough to exalt pretty much all over the place. They're numerous enough for the Realm to have an active recruitment policy, but uncommon enough that the majority of the Realm's Dragon Bloods are dynasts despite this.

>>48792003
I see, so general upset feelings could set it off. That's helpful.

>>48791852
If by purely cosmetic you mean theological, sure. Saints weren't considered to have power of their own beyond the ear of God - the invocation of their intercession is basically the same as asking your family to pray with you about something except that the people involved are in heaven.

This is also still what the majority of Christians follow.


That also neatly ignores Islam and Buddhism, the latter of which can't even be blamed on Abraham and has its devas as beings in another realm who don't affect the material world or require prayer.

>>48772866
She's charismatic and a hero, so what if she's a bit plain? You'll ride her because gods know what she'll do with your "sword" if nothing else.

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>>48792241
>Saints weren't considered to have power of their own beyond the ear of God

Cosmetic.

In Shinto, you pray to a spirit of storm to ease your travel by ship. In pre-reform Christianism, you pray to the saint of storm to ease your travel by ship. It is the exact same need with the exact same solution.

Of course, Christianism had the good idea of saying that it's all God in the end, but for the peasant praying to Saint Medard, patron of storm protection, it's a very cosmetic detail.

People always needed to believe there was some spirits out there that could help them and grand them miracle if they prayed to it. Call them Saints, Spirits, small Gods, Djinns, it's all the same minor one or two cosmetic details.

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>>48792439
By the way, I admire the deviousness of the Catholic solution as much as Nietzsche admires it.

In a polytheist society, it is simple to have many spirits or gods doing many things for you. The Ur-example being shinto, with its many, many gods. You forge a sword? You pray to the local god of smiths.

In a monotheist society, it is far more difficult to do the same. Big G is an absent figure, purposefully removed from the world. Praying to him to help you in the forge feels impersonal and irreverent, especially when you are in a agricultural environment where the finest point of doctrine are absolutely lost on people who can't read and just want an easy solution.

Enter Saint Dunstan, patron saint of blacksmiths, locksmiths, goldsmiths and silversmiths. He's the guy you need to bother to make your sword miraculous.

Of course, ultimately, in the finest point of doctrine, it's still big G, but the peasant blacksmith will only see Dunstan.

So... I don't like the speed in which Solars rise in Essence. 300xp separates Essence 1 from Essence 5. At the suggested 5xp per session, that is 60 sessions. Fourteen months, if sessions are weekly.

I don't like it. It produces Solars that are so focused that they are crippled. I was contemplating changing the numbers to alter it when I realized something. Solar xp doesn't count towards the XP expenditure needed.

So what if we change that? What if ONLY Solar XP counted, leaving all other rules the same, meaning Solar XP can't be spent on Charms - maybe expand it to exclude martial arts, sorcery, and evocations too.

What effect do you think this would have? Would it produce Solars with an much more expanded expertise, or would it feel like advancement was too slow?

>>48792555
In my games players gain Essence whenever I feel like they've done something to earn an Essence increase. The whole group goes up at the same time. Better Essence is basically just a story reward. It's always worked for us rather than tying to something arbitrary like experience points.

>>48792555
>I don't like it. It produces Solars that are so focused that they are crippled.
How? I honestly don't see your point, as this isn't the case in my experience.

>>48792538
>>48792439
Buddhism literally has none of that. The only prayer you can try is meditation on the path to enlightenment, intercession won't happen.

Islam also has no prayer to small spirits, or saints (The Shia have some intercessionary-like prayer but the Sunni are much harsher on it) or Djinn, or anything but Allah himself. For those two at least, you can't spin it as being window dressing, they fundamentally lack the concept of prayer to smaller divines - or indeed any divines at all for one of them. In fact, pleading for help in this life is antithetical to the concept of Buddhism, where the goal is to cultivate a detachment where you want not and accept what is.

I also think it's a bit dismissive and patronising to claim with certainty that medieval peasants couldn't grasp the difference between intercession and direct action. You only need to look at Joan of Arc's trial to see that a peasant with a firm grasp of theology wasn't outside the realm of possibility.

>>48792609
Because the increases in Essence come so fast. You realize that it just takes 7 Favored/Caste Charms to reach Essence 2? 10 more to reach Essence 3.

What are people going to want to buy most? Charms. Charms for their specialties. So that leads to Solars with a lot of Charms in their specialties, but no Charms anywhere else.

>>48792599
That is something I've contemplated, yes, just making Essence increase by milestone.

>>48792637
>Buddhism literally has none of that. The only prayer you can try is meditation on the path to enlightenment, intercession won't happen.

Buddhism is a philosophy. I wouldn't call it a religion lightly - and where it has become a religion (some part of China, Tibet), praying to past Buddha for good luck and whatever is common. They have a large number of past Buddha that serves roughly the same role as saints.

I don't know about Islam too much, so I can't tell.

>I also think it's a bit dismissive and patronising to claim with certainty that medieval peasants couldn't grasp the difference between intercession and direct action.

It's not so much they can't understand the difference between intercession and direct action, because this point would surely be stressed again and again by their priests (Saints Are Not God, there is only one true God, etc). But in reality, the difference is certainly unimportant for the peasant.

You pray to Dumbo to give you the power of flying. Is it important than Dumbo is a god and can grant you this boon by himself, or that he is merely a saint and can push God to grant you this boon? No. You still pray to Dumbo to give you the power of flying. That Dumbo is a small god or merely a saint, it's all the same. You need to pray to a spirit to gain a boon - and when you pray, you gain it.

>>48792649
You realize that while you're correct about most players just buying charms with their xp, that has nothing to do with your problem of the Essence levels right? They'd still be just as specialized with either your work around or the other anon's, it would just take longer.

>>48792772
>>48792637
Ultimately, I agree with you: the difference is theological, just not practical. The need of the human nature to pray to someone for something is strong, and small gods and saints are just two ways to answer that need.

...Now I want to play a RPG where the only way to gain magic is to pray to a huge number of saints, with each one associated to some particular miracles.

>>48792836
No, the idea is that once they buy the charms they think they 'must' have from their specialties, they'd be a lot more willing to branch out into other cool things they'd like to do.

I'm aware that they will specialize anyway, but either way, they are encouraged to spread out.

>>48792882
Not really, they'd just have a few more charms for their specialties between essence increases. Increasing the xp requirement for essence just gives them a bit more room, it doesn't actively incentivise broadening their capabilities.

>>48789706
I think you're underselling DB's. An Essence 5 DB should be able to pretty consistently beat a starting solar in a shared specialty. Not without effort but we are talking about Essence 5 here, that's Scarlet Empress tier power. I'd be doing my players a disservice if they met Mnemon only to find that they could've wrecked her shit straight outta chargen.

>>48793061
The Empress is probably some sort of Essence 6, even in 3e. But I agree with your point, they'd be an incredibly tough challenge for chargen solars.

>>48793043
Then what do you suggest, as an idea, to encourage players to expand rather than hyperfocus?

>>48793061
A Solar Dawn should be able to wreck Mnemon right out of chargen... if they actually can catch her alone, in person, and for long enough. But the difficulty, of course, is in doing that, nor is the Dawn likely to escape afterwards.

>>48792881
A lot of people have stopped bothering recently though.

Anyway, I think there are both practical and theological differences in prayer to be found in major religions, but I can accept that prayer to a host with divided responsibilities is a common and widespread practice.

>>48793160
I'll concede that a hyper-specialised Solar Dawn should be able to wreck Mnemon in those circumstances and even then I'd only say so because Mnemon isn't particularly combat oriented.

>>48793141
I wasn't saying I had a better option. But off the top of my head, decrease cost of non-favoured and low-ranking charms and dots after a while. Or have scaling costs that don't clash with chargen. Offer dots in a new ability if they start using it often, just tossing them a bone from which they can later build on. Make essence 1 charms cheaper. Reward good roleplaying with any of these.
Mainly you want to nudge them away from seeing dips into other options as being a loss to their main focus.
You should also challenge them more on wider areas, without fucking them over, show they could use more investment in other skills or defences against systems they ignore.

>>48793160
>Mnemon
>Skillful Martial Artist trained by Sidereals
>Powerful Sorceress
>Essence 1 Dawn Straight from Chargen

Listen, I know sucking down all that Sunny D has made thinking hard, but I'm pretty sure that even you can see why that's retarded.

>>48793115
The power creep of 2e was greatly exaggerated. The best of the best DB alive, master of all martial art in 2e was essence 6, and he was considered an exception. Not many DBs were higher than essence 3 in 2e.

The only two exceptions being Mnemon, who is supposed to be a super DB, and the Empress, who is supposed to be the Empress. Maybe Mnemon essence rating was a one point too high, but that's the limit of the often discussed, always circlejerked 'power creep' of 2e.

>>48793231
Supernal Melee Dawn.

So, yeah, that should be beyond a DB, even Mnemon.

>>48793300
"You thought I would be alone, Anathema?"

>SUDDENLY OCTAVIAN OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE!!

>>48793325
"Oh, thanks, another way to build my initiative to wreck your shit with."

>>48792417
Okay what if she has 1/1/5 and Hideous.

>>48793430
Why would your mom be an Exalted character?

>>48793551
She's clearly an Exigent of Pokemon Go.

>>48793231
Mnemon has impressive but non-optimized combat dice pool and, in 1E, a handful of combat Charms. In 2E she's sort of more fighty, because she has mastered two Terrestrial Martial Arts. Still, she isn't all that when it comes to combat. There are tougher Dragon-Blooded, and ones younger than her. Peleps Deled, with his hyper-focus on beating people up with the Water Dragon Style, is probably more fearsome in single combat. A tartig Dawn absolutely should be able to wreck Mnemon's shit in a straight fight. This is perfectly fine, because Mnemon is a sorceress and a mastermind, not a warrior, and forcing her to engage in a straight fight is easier said than done.

>>48793232
You're right, there wasn't much of a power creep among Dragon Blooded. Heck, back during First Edition in Aspect Book: Earth Mnemon had an Essence of 7, and it was always suggested her mother was a bit stronger than she was.

>>48793360
Octavian is literally just a speedbump for a combat focused Supernal Melee Solar straight out of character generation.

>>48793616
Yeah. Mnemon was never presented as terribly fighty. She has bound demons and Immaculate trained children to do her fighting for her.

>>48794116
Yep. Hell, he's not a hard fight even for someone that just has Melee as Favored or Caste, much less Supernal.

>>48793568
Who's the god of Pokemon Go?

>Apocryphal

AKA: Non-canon

Ignore it.

>>48793616
I can't remember which book it was in (or even which edition) but I recall one bit about Mnemon - that people who use Charms to see demateralized spirits around Mnemon can't even -see- Mnemon. At all times she's surrounded by a legion of demateralized First and Second Circle demon bodyguards.

So while a Solar Dawn caste could probably kill her right out of char-gen in a one on one fight, at the same time you'd never be able to have a one on one fight with Mnemon.

>>48794171

Fighting him as melee favored would be a lot harder though. The real turning point would come with Essence 2 I'd imagine.

>>48794171
>>48794116
Are we even playing the same game? You're talking about 3e, right?

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>>48794478
>At all times she's surrounded by a legion of demateralized First and Second Circle demon bodyguards.

I really, really like it. Mnemon in a nutshell.

She really should be more careful with those second circle demons though.

>mention Mnemon in a post about high-powered Dragon-blooded.
>everyone ignores the point of the post and starts talking about Mnemon's fightyness

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>>48795886
>mention Mnemon

See, this is where you fucked up

Can Demon of the First Circle be used to summon a specific demon? Like, maybe there is a neomah whose individual quirks you find appealing, or a blood ape who seems to understand the spirit of your orders better than most. Can you summon that specific demon againwhen the original year and a day are up?

>>48795994
Yes, can't use Summon Elemental to do it though because the spell creates the elemental instead of calling an existing one

JumpChain seems excited about them covering infernals.

>>48796103
What is a JumpChain?

>>48795026
Yes.

Octavian really isn't that tough when matched up against a Supernal Melee Solar.

Or maybe a better way to say it is that a Supernal Melee Solar is just that strong.

>>48795994
>>48796027

I would add that the spell can also be used - or at least it could in 2e - to summon demons by a characteristic, within reason. "Get me a demon with Strength 7+" or "Get me a demon with dots in Craft(Architecture)" will get you appropriately skilled demons for a particular job, although then you can't be sure of the species.

>>48795770
I never asked, but is that, you know, jade high heels? How much does it cost to have jade high heels?

>>48796338

I never much liked that use of it, since it took away one of the big fun-points of being a demonologist (doing your own research and building up a repertoire of known demons).

It wasn't imbalanced or anything, since if he thought you were having it too easy the GM could always just send you a demon that poops buildings and have your cathedral be made of dried shit or whatever.

>>48796573
Inconsequential to the dead of a Dynast House.

>>48796617
Dammit, fingers. Head of a Dynast House.

>>48796573
You know those super comfy 1 dot boots that every dynast had?

Those, but fashionable

>>48796689

Those were some good fucking boots. How could you transport them into Ex3, considering that all movement is broken into range bands and that there's no such thing as a one dot artefact.

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>>48796689
>>48796617
You need some serious swag to walk with jade high heels.

The only thing more bling-bling I can imagine is Orichalcum high heels.

>>48796247
JumpChain CYOA >>48789236
They pointbuy vague builds for a setting with no mechanics, and gloss over their time there, to move on to the next, collecting powers, items, and companions.

>>48796796
Talent of Jade was Resources 4, Mnemon can swing that on a pair of pumps

>>48796796
>Orichalcum high heels

That was the real reason for the Usurpation. Some Sid got her ass hurt when a Solar Queen showed up to a party in blinging Orichalcum heels, completely showing up the Sid's Starmetal heels.

>>48797063
A Siddie getting upset about being overshadowed is doing it wrong

Starmetal heels are supposed to be ruthlessly efficient strappy stilletos, not blinged out mega heels lie orichalcum

So how powerful are N/A artifacts suppose to be in exalted 3rd. Considering Wonder forging Genius expects someone to have 10 going at the same time.

>>48797279

"Yes." So long as it isn't violating genre convention (a la the three impossibles) or making anyone else in the party's dick feel small, an artifact N/A can do it.

Warstriders are artifact N/A and represent enough military might that a single one guards an entire country.

>>48797416
So do you just need some Orichalcum and some time or do you need rarities like ancient knowledge or maidens tears or behemoth bones as well as the 5mm?

>>48797470

For an artifact N/A? Definitely the latter, and probably several. The 5MMs aren't even really necessary (thank god).

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>>48797279

With no examples at present the only point of comparison is 1e and 2e, but that kind of falls flat due to Evocations not being a thing. My theory is that they're objects that even Solars would wantonly wage war over, things that entire stories can revolve around and that are just straight up plot devices. The One Ring immediately springs to mind as an N/A artefact that one can carry and conceal, granting great power, being the object of desire of anyone who it comes into contact with, and the fact that it was forged by and contains the life Essence of a divine being, Sauron.

I'm sure that there are other objects and oddities from popular culture that would fit the bill, but there are no hard and fast rules, even in Ex3, as to what the difference between a 3 or 5 dot artefact is, or the difference between a 5 or N/A dot artefact.

>>48797470
I dunno mate. You just asked about Craft. I don't want to think about it. I don't want to talk about it. Look, you don't want to talk about it too. Believe me. He wanted to talk about it, and now he doesn't. Don't follow his example. I don't want to talk about it, you don't want to talk about it, so let's not talk about it.

>>48797470
Well, depends on who you want to use it. Solars can use any of the 5MM, while each of those can only be used by one type of Exalt.

Personally, I'd recommend using Orichalcum if you can and you intend Solars to use it, because that means the Realm can't use it against you, if you lose it.

>>48796297
He is that tough,and an ess 1 supernal melee dawn will get his ass beat.

Suppose, I wanted to remove Perfect Attacks and Defenses how would this affect the setting?

>>48797664

In 2e? Every fight would have to be shortened to exactly one attack by whoever struck first.

In 3e? Presuming you still keep the scene-long immunity vs. uncountable damage effect of the Perfects, not much changes.

>>48797686
I'm using a different system so I'm not too worried about that aspect. I just wanted to know how much it'd change the setting and tone in general.

>>48797768
It wouldn't be the same if you couldn't parry a mountain or a nuclear explosion, imo

>>48797768

If you're asking "does the lore literally explicitly say that Heavenly Guardian Defense was critical for the Solars to beat the Primordials," then no.

As for tone, yes, I'd say there'd be a distinct change in it if a Third Circle Demon can just drop a mountain on a Solar to make them go away. "Engage me for real using the actual combat system you fuck" is the statement the perfect defenses (in 3e) make, and it's part of the tone.

>>48797627
lol

Somebody(that's you) sucks at Exalted.

>>48797802
Ah, well. I thought it'd make for a more gritty game but now that I think about that part is covered by playing as a Heroic Mortal already.

>>48798147
No, really. Either you didn't do a real test, or whoever was playing Octavian sucked at the game and didn't use his charms to their full potential.

>>48798147
I'm another Anon of the opinion that an Essence 1 Melee Supernal, while being pretty swell, would still get wrecked by a good number of people.

Previous tests of the Essence 1 Brawl Supernal dunking Ahlat depended on incorrect interpretations of Charms and interactions.

A Melee Supernal is powerful, I know I've played one that was stupidly combat focused, but sheer fact of lower mote pools and lower (Essence) scaling makes them not as ridiculous.

What would be the Charm selection and stat allocation for your hypothetical Solar who could dunk everything?

Octavian has 110 motes, 30 health levels, and very high soak/dicepools. He has an excellency-like charm just as good as a max solar excellency, and a charm that lets him act twice per round. He can full excellency every action and an E1 Dawn doesn't have enough tricks to keep up with that kind of mote advantage.

>>48798147
You're talking out of your ass and haven't actually tried.

>>48793300
>>48793325
Just Octavian? How about Octavian, Zsofika, Lucien, Gervesin and Sondok, just off the top of my head?

>>48794655
>>48794116
Occult Charms kind of make even stronger Demons and Spirits a non-issue. As it should be, honestly.

>>48799029
What kind of Mnemon are you running where she has tons of second circle demons bound all the time? The way her story was presented in 1e, it seemed more like summoning a 2nd circle was dangerous for her, and not something she did lightly.

>>48799195
Second Circle demons run the gamut from Essence 5 (Sondok) to Essence 8 (Stanewald). It's very likely that the 2nd Circle Demon she summoned in that story was a particularly powerful and dangerous one.

>>48799745
Regardless, there are likely over 100 Celestial Circle Sorcerers in the setting, if you assume 2nd circles are summoned casually, how often is someone like Octavian available?

Personally I think sorcerers use summon 2nd circle sparingly, because its hard to do and dangerous to fail. And I don't like the idea of every sorcerer being permanently surrounded by 5 2nd circle bodyguards - I don't think sorcerers as depicted do this. First circles, sure.

>>48800950
>how often is someone like Octavian available
Whenever the GM needs him to be.

>>48799745
>>48800950
That Power Rangers squad above was a semi-humorous example - I mean, if you are going bash on a sorcerer, who has time to prepare, expect them to be.

The roll is Intelligence + Occult versus Resolve, which would be around 5 for 2CD. For a full Solar Excellency, this is pretty reliable (simple math aside, I just rolled 20 dice and failed three times in a row, which was funny).
Lunar Excellency... is stupid. Making it rely on Stunts, what were they thinking... But comes out the same. Sidereals have it easy as well.

If anything, I think, repercussions for holding too many 2CD would be less failed summonings and more social and political - from other sorcerers and from Malfeas itself. Besides, even a bound 2CD is still a willful being with it's own agendas. Defining Tie or loyalty or not, that demon squad would be very difficult to keep an eye on.

>>48801724
Regarding the Excellencies, it's been basically confirmed by the writers that the QC Excellencies were only placeholders. I expect the final Excellencies to be a bit different.

>>48792439

It's easy to make things look similar when you paint with such a broad brush. I could just as easily say that apples and oranges, both being round fruit that satisfy hunger, are identical, absent cosmetic differences.

That's true, but it doesn't mean they're not actually quite different.

I think the distinction the OP was trying to make between Western and Eastern religion is the degree to which they're separated from the physical world. If you're Catholic/Greek/Roman/Norse, you might pray to Medard/Poseidon/Neptune/Aegir. If you're Shinto, you'll find the spirit responsible for that particular body of water, find the shrine which is the spirits actual dwelling place, and placate it with offerings. Western gods dwell in their heaven; Eastern gods live in the physical world.

Western mythologies had spirits associated with certain springs and trees, etc, but they were of a different kind to gods. They were traps for the unwary, and fodder for heroes to outwit or kill, but they weren't divine.