/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>>48567402
In an hour and a half.
V20 game set in Chicago, I'm playing a Brujah based loosely on a combination of evilHal from Being Human and Cassidy from Preacher(both the comic and tv show versions of him, not that there's a whole lot of difference in their general demeanor).

After work today. Running a one-shot CofD mortals game, like Predator between a high-ranking angel and some stigmatics deep in frozen midwestern forests.

>>48567402
>When is your next game?
Hopefully next week. First session of a changeling campaign, using what we know of the 2nd edition.

Next week. I had to push the game off for a long while due to work. Really excited to dive right back in, I'm taking a day this week just to plan for the new arc.

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>>48568035
>V20

Which is more common for story based merits like allies and resources. To have players spend XP on them and then just somehow work them in, or to have them rise and fall as the story demands with no XP involved.

>>48566782
>>48566796
Is there some reason that people are so incompetent that "you don't need rules to tell you that you can't infinite item dupe like it's a fucking video game" is somehow interpreted as "you don't need rules at all"?

>>48566904
You can't hit an entire cabal with a Scale 1 spell. I don't care if you're all super slim and made sure to poop first, you'll need to at least up Scale by one.
You don't understand how social mechanics in roleplaying games work.
>If there was never a chance at doing so, well, the whole cabal can beat up the subject and change the future that way.
So "the spell works the way its intended"?
Although this implies you already know who what and where something is going to happen and it's close. It's basically enough to fix a mistake.

>>48566579
You realize that it works basically how it worked in 1e, right?

>>48567473
Extend the Duration on Suppress Life and they won't even need the Coma part and can walk around.

>>48567608
>It cannot be said that, "You Can't Wake Up cannot be used on Nightmares without a duration," because there is no stipulation against such a thing; it simply assumes that all Nightmares have a duration, which creates a RAW problem when it encounters a Nightmare that has no duration.
It really doesn't. This is quibbling. Basically no one would make that assumption.

>>48569021
General intention is that if you buy them as merits, they're more serious, and will likely use the merit rules when applicable, as opposed to be left to the whims of the story.

>>48569021
To have the players earn them in-game and then spend the XP on them to secure the benefits.

>>48569028

You could have just let the last thread go, instead of doing what you're doing now.

>>48569143
>>48569041

These, more or less. You make the contacts, and spending the XP is a way of telling the ST "absolutely keep these folks around".

>>48569289
>"absolutely keep these folks around".
well they'll still die in places where they need to die, or get lost or just cut ties or whatever, the player just gets the XP back

>>48569332

Oh, absolutely. I'm really glad that the Sanctity of Merits is officially a thing, it really does take the sting out of pulling some serious plot heaviness.

>>48567402
>When is your next game?
Most likely Thursday or Friday, running W20.

>>48569021
Story justification is important, new money and friends don't just appear out of thin air, they have to be acquired. Although I think the book details a couple of exceptions, like fate and totem for the wolves.

>>48567402
>When is your next game?

literally never

Whats the difference between allies and status? They both seem to be able to get an organization to do things for you

>>48571782
Status is how much power you have in the organization. Allies is actual people who are willing to do things for you. They're similar, but different. Retainer (which is a more straightforward "sidekick" merit than Allies is, and generally represents one person) is another one.

They also all have different mechanics, so there's that.

There's also stuff like Hobbyist Clique, and Staff. There are a lot of social group merits that all serve different purposes, but could theoretically be the same thing.

>>48571782
>>48571889
Status = a group/organization helping you out and cutting red tape because most/all of them know and like you, but aren't going to drop what they're doing and show up full force because you called one of them at 3 in the morning after getting mugged.

Allies = friends you've made who are willing to go out of their way to help you out with something. They lack the organizational power of Status, but are more flexible.

oWoD question: why is there so much hate aimed at Mage's metaplot in Revised edition?

I wasn't playing Mage back in the day (on account of being an elementary schooler), but looking t it as a cohesive whole now the Avatar Storm seems to have largely made the game more grounded and approachable. Any old-schoolers want to explain?

>>48572222
it mildly lowered mages power levels and that seems to be the base of most complaints.

>>48572222

It made a lot of of the more fanciful campaigns harder to do or even straight up off limits, and that burned the people who approached Ascension as a more cinematic game. A recent interview with Martin Ericsson actually gave me the words to contextualize what caused the controversy of 2e vs Revised for many oWoD lines: 2e was urban fantasy, whereas Revised tried to get back to the oWoD's personal horror roots in 1e. Of course, Revised was still a bigger edition in scope than 1e, so the hardliner 1e people were still not happy.

Another major change that some people didn't really like about Mage Revised was its approach of "The Technocracy's more or less won, the Tradition needs to learn to get by or try something new". Technocracy fans also had to deal with White Wolf hammering down on "No, really, Control is corrupting literally everything you stand for and you need to fix that shit or get borg'd"

Stupid question: What happened to the Ravnos, Followers of Set, and Assamites in the nWoD? Do they still exist?

>>48573168
>Do they still exist
no, kind of, no.

>>48573290

That makes me a bit sad, but I'm still going to mod an assamite into my hunter game. They're too cool to die off imo

>>48573168

Nothing really "happened" to them as much as they just don't exist in CofD (the new term for nWoD). However, aspects of them have shown up in some of the other aspects of Requiem: a Nosferatu's Nightmare has echoes of Chimestry and there's some Settite and Assamite DNA in the Mehket's make up, for example. As long as one also considers Covenant as well as Clan in their character concept, its surprisingly easy to replicate the feel of a member of a Masquerade clan in Requiem.

If you still feel the need to play one straight up in Requiem, however, consider obtaining the Vampire Translation Guide. It was written in the later days of Requiem 1e and before V20, but it's still very useful for converting things back and forth, and is pretty backwards compatible with V20 and Requiem 2e.

>>48573168

There's no "still exist" because the nWoD/CofD is a wholly unrelated universe to the WoD. Elements of them show up in Requiem bloodlines (the Khaibit are a lot like the Assamites and the Bohagande are a lot like the Ravnos), but there's zero continuity overall.

>>48573551

Of course we say this now, but just wait until One World of Darkness vs The Chronicles of Darkness is a thing.

All kidding aside, still kind of bummed that Exalted vs The World of Darkness never materialized. That'd be a gonzo-y slapdash of a mess that I would have ran with reckless abandon.

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>theonyxpath.com/the-quick-the-dead-monday-meeting-notes/
>Meanwhile, we are releasing the Advance PDF of Promethean: the Created Second Edition this Wednesday! Dead parts that are now alive and all that.

>>48567402
My next game is next week. It's nice to have a game that hasn't collapsed before the thing started.

>>48573618

Awwwwww shit. Been waiting so long for that book.

>>48567402
>When is your next game?
No clue. Last one ended last week due to Uni starting again and shitty timetables.

I could start another one, but I don't trust my prospective players to not shit it up with D&D Murderhobo attitudes.

Such are the trials of a Uni RPG Society.

>>48573618
HAPPENING
A
P
P
E
N
I
N
G

>>48574043
I understand your pain my friend, I always want to run WoD but my players have the attention span of knats and only play D&D

>>48573618
>Inb4 special snowflake ranting

>>48573618
There have been a lot less mechanics previews for promethean then some of the other lines. Im hype

>when is your next game
The next time I'm having a day off on a weekend like normal humans do. Not complaining though, kitchen is fun, just makes it harder to get together with my friends.

I'm the storyteller of a V20 game, I've set it in modern days Vienna with some slight social changes to reality. Basically the prince is a reculsive Malkavian woman that stays in power because she seems to know how succesful anyone is going to be and can always side accordingly. The city has won in influence and capital since the local ventrue and nosferatu were the main european investors in new technology and there is the now global company "WebRats" (How subtle) thats leading worldwide because its mostly Nosferatu working on it with people mostly being ghouls used to uphold the image.
The Primogen of the ventrue is a very modern vampire that started the new era, tightly working with the nosferatu. He is mortal enemy of the sire of one of my PC's, a Austria-Hungary Era Ventrue that lost on influence and power because he didnt want to go with the times. The player is actualy a young upstart, and is used by his sire to get a hold on this whole new age mess.
The main nosferatu NPC acts like a goofy dude but in reality wants to use this new era and informational power to make the Nosferatu strong on their own, without having to trade this heavily with the Ventrue to stay in their position.
Meanwhile there's also a slight thread of a charismatic Toreador Primogen trying to seize power by showing more action that the ventrue actualy bringing order to the city and not just handling the finances and politics, Sabbat trying to get a foot in the city and fuck with the masquerade, and maybe well intended, maybe just power hungry Anarchs trying to get their own neigbourhoods.

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>>48567402

Next game is next week.

The cliff hanger was one player got Paradox 5

I am the ST

What do I do?

>>48575739

Fuck 'em up, clearly.

>>48575739
Do you want it to be a one time plot point of "this is what happens when you fuck up" or a plot arc?

>>48575739
Did they contain it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqPcQeMEnFc

For some reason this reminds me of changeling so much.

>>48573168
>>48573373
Completely different game. You don't even need those clans to play vampires like that (not even vampires from secret societies like theirs). They could be Bloodlines (and are probably statted up that way in the 1e VtM-VtR Translation Guide), or they could just be regular vampires of a type. There are only five (or seven) Clans, and they're much broader.

If you're running Hunter, you don't need them to exist. Your characters might face a luck vampire or a snake vampire or an assassin vampire, but generally speaking what they face shouldn't be a Ravnos or a Setite or an Assamite in the first place. It also shouldn't be a Nosferatu or a Daeva or a Mekhet either. It should be a Bloodjacker or a reanimated corpse or any one of a hundred things that doesn't come straight from the pages of another book and comes with massive social group baggage. Though there's nothing wrong with implying that this vampire might wink-wink, nudge-nudge be something your players are familiar with.

You should be using Hunter: The Vigil rules as well, not Vampire: The Requiem rules.

>>48573605
Do you mean edition warring or some kind of a comic book intercompany crossover like Amalgam or Captain America/Batman?

>>48573618
Neato. I'm legitimately surprised. I didn't even know it was ready for that.

Most likely next week. It's a Hunter game, and last session we made a daring escape from a vampire's lair, at the cost of a very important cell member. That being said, I caused a bit of a jailbreak, and escaped with quite a few of their captives.

Only problem is the elder vampire of whom we escaped from is now VERY interested in capturing my character, half out of anger for running off with all her bloodbags, half out of begrudging respect for my ability to pull it off.

We're kind of out in the open with over a dozen anemic people to take care of. We can't take them to a hospital or they'll end up in the vampire's clutches again. Our only hope is to get to our safehouse on the other side of town.

>nwod hunter has no hunter.net
>internet was mostly new when that game came out
>modern hunter.net would have shitposting and memes
missed opportunity.

>>48576860

The Union has a canon dedicated forum that's essentially identical to hunter.net and I'm sure Network Zero has a message board as well. Read the book!

>>48576860
Hunter 2e is practically guaranteed to mention a hunter.net equivalent.

>>48576860
That's not even remotely true, though.
Also, ironically >>48576927 forums are kind of dying, and twitter is way too public, so I wonder how the NetZos of the future will coordinate. Discord?

>>48576586

An actual crossover where Exalted invades the oWoD. If I recall correctly, it was brought up as a semi-joking, semi-real suggestion for a Kickstarter stretch goal for the Exalted 3e campaign.

>>48576229

Why contain it? 'Scool.

>>48577134

Same way a lot of organizations probably communicate: GroupMe, What's App, stuff like that. SnapChat is probably extremely popular.

>>48577137
Because not containing it means the ST now has enough Reach to summon a rank 1 Gulmoth

>>48576860
>>48576927
>>48576990
>>48577134

>Ywn shitpost on hunter.net after taking down a skinwalker.

Why even live?

>>48577170

The sound they'll make rattling their cage will serve as a warning to the electronic old men.

>>48577334
>Subject: GUESS WHO JUST GOT TO SECOND BASE WITH A FIRE LADY
>closed after hundreds of posts of shitposting

>>48576860
>>48576927
>>48576990
>>48577134
>>48577166
>>48577357
>>48577392
>Implying it wouldn't just be /x/

>>48576990
>>48577134
>>48576927
>>48577334
>>48576860
Hunter.net was protected by either Lucifier or the Ebon Dragon and Scarlet Queen. Probably Lucifier. Either way it was impossible to hack without going insane. One vampire did and he became more insane than a Malk on LSD afterwards.

Kinda hard to replicate without divine intervention to get the exact idea down.

>>48577428
People on /X/ are afraid of their own shadows. Most Hunters are brave enough to actually fight monsters.

Besides, Hunters are mechanically required to have jobs. They're not NEETs.

>>48576990

Thanks for reminding me how disgustingly hype I am for Hunter.

Anybody wanna talk about their favorite groups? I'm not gonna derail another thread with Division Six talk (unless that's what you want), but Habibti Ma and Utopia Now are both awesome.

I actually liked pretty much all of the supplemental groups over the core ones.

>>48577444
>be demon
>man fuck the machine
>spend centuries doing little shit against it, major thing here or there
>fuck this is going to take longer than forever
>maybe the humans could help
>lot of them, some of them know about the wider world and strike out against it
>to weak though
>really strong when they get together and get organized
>like scary strong
>one day this hot new invention hits the scene, something called the internet
>lets humans talk from all over real close, share images and other shit to
>easy to trace though if you know what you're doing
>get an idea
>use stolen infrastructure from over the long years to make super site
>basically unhackable, especially not by angels
>just let the word get out and watch them do their thing
>some faggot uses it to talk about not having a monster gf

>>48577170
Those start at rank 2 and grow in rank with more reach.

>>48577502

Before Aspel unleashes their hot hot take on the supplemental hunter groups and there's a 50/50 chance the topic derails: I really like The Barrett Commission a lot. I'd love to run a Night's Black Agents/Hunter: The Vigil crossover with one group playing the burned agents of NBA (maybe fluffing them as burned Task Force: Valkyrie agents after they got on ADAMSKI's bad side) and another group playing members of the Commission, and they try to help each other bust open the Conspyramid.

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>>48577535
that could actually work shit

>>48577444
Wait what book was this mentioned in?

>>48577662
It's in one of the books some where. Can't remember which, been years man.

>>48577538
So they do
Even more reason to contain it

>>48577479
That was a dumb mechanic, and NEET is a viable Profession. Profession isn't your job, it's who you are, so Occultist would fit.
I don't like that mechanic though and now that it's in the corebook I hope 2e doesn't have it and does something different with the "Hunter Template".

>>48577502
I sent in my shit finally.

>>48577548
What's wrong with me giving my hot take?
My problem with stuff like the Barrett Commission is that it's great worldbuilding but it's not the kind of thing that makes for interesting gameplay, since most of it would be filing TPS reports.

>>48577548
>Night's Black Agents/Hunter: the Vigil crossover

You have my attention.

The Dracula Dossier adds a handful of vampire-focused antagonist groups; the British Project Edom wants Dracula or another tame vampire to fight terrorists and is as central a baddie as the count himself.

>>48577742
I know dude, just poking fun at 4Chan. Though a NEET hunter sounds like fun.

>>48577742

Congrats on the submission.

The Barrett Commission could make for an awesomely action-packed campaign; think about being the guys who busted Al Capone on his taxes, except the mobsters have fangs and superpowers. Or being the handful of politicians and cops not on the take, skulking around to find blackmail material you can use to force others to stop working with the monsters before you publicly ruin their careers. It could be House of Cards with mummies or a cabal of wannabe Snowdens hoping to oust crooked baddies.

Alternatively, any Hunter group you can't think of a chronicle for still make for fantastic unexpected antagonists in another game; a Division Dix van smashing through the wall of your Sanctum is just as valid a use of the material as playing them yourself.

>>48577850
>think about being the guys who busted Al Capone on his taxes, except the mobsters have fangs and superpowers.
Yeah, but that guy didn't actually fist fight Al Capone.

>>48577881

Not officially they didn't.

>>48577729
>fuck up unleashing paradox 9
>manifest a rank 6 abyssal
>Guardians of the Veil rewind the timeline and remove you from it to not have to deal with that bullshit

>>48577502
I love Net0 FAR more than I should. Probably because back in middle school I was big into cryptozoology and fell for almost every single low-rez "fallen angel" video on the net. They hit that nostalgia button *just* right.

What's the appeal of VtR? There's a lot fewer vampire clans

>>48578297
>There's a lot fewer vampire clans
In VtR, a character's clan is more of a theme than an entire concept. You can have an entire coterie consisting of a single clan, with each character concept being clearly distinct from the others.

Personally, it (and other CofD lines) appeals to me because I like the sandbox "take-it-or-leave-it" approach.

>>48578297
>no metaplot
>better mechanics
>fewer clans, but more bloodlines and variants (like in wicked dead)

>>48578297
There are more political factions to choose from, that's a cool thing.

>>48578297
Fewer clans doesn't really matter. They're less stereotypes and more archetypes of vampires. Your Daeva are your sexy Lestats, your Gangrel are your atavistic monsters, Ventrue are the Dracula type, Nosferatu are spooky hideous vampires, and Mekhet are the creepy shadowy hidden lore archetype. They touch on cultural aspects of vampires without getting bogged down in the really often ridiculous parts (for some reason gross and ugly=secret spies and messengers/hackers? Necromancer vampires means incestuous mob bosses? Kings and barons have picky appetites?) and it's a lot easier to play two of the Requiem clans drastically different without ignoring the "schtick" of the clan, the way you'd have to if you, for instance, make a Toreador who thinks paintings and sculpture are dumb but loves martial arts. Not to mention that no vampire type is faction locked.

As I often point out to people, it's a lot easier to take a Masquerade concept and make it work in Requiem than it is to take a VtR concept and make it work in Masquerade. Masquerade has a lot of baggage that Requiem doesn't.

And that's just the clan stuff. While plenty of people seem to love the ridiculous setting and overarching metaplot that went on through Masquerade's run, a lot of other people think the machinations of ancient powers that you have no control over is pretty frustrating. Personally, I find the backstory of Masquerade to be stupid. It doesn't help that so much of it is presented as SEKRIT HISTORIES that mean your character is some idiot who doesn't believe in Antedeluvians or whatever, despite like half the books talking about them and vampires being referred to as Cainites even by the people who say Caine wasn't real.

>>48577743

I need to pick up the Dracula Dossier. I was thinking about having it be the center piece in the crossover, but I don't think Count Fucking Dracula meshes very well with the one that Edom wants to get. Maybe he can be a side character.

>>48577742

Nothing wrong, I just remember the last couple times. Also congrats on the submission!

>>48578719
AND you've got the stupid vampire Illuminati schtick, which is just... so dumb. I hate that you've got things like the Gangrel unanimously leaving the Camarilla over the awakening of Zapathustra because the Camarilla refused to acknowledge it. Both because everyone of a single 'race' doing anything unanimously is dumb, especially in a time before Twitter, and because it's stupid that the Camarilla just ignores all evidence of the Antes.

Honestly in terms of "why do people like Requiem more" I could just keep going on about things I hate about Masquerade. But for the actual appeal of Requiem?

It's a more interesting setting. There's no ancient fuckboys sitting in the background waiting to rise up in your setting (unless you want it) and there's an air of mystery surrounding vampiric origins, but really who cares? Most people aren't anthropologists. There's variety, even if there are only five clans. Five clans with several different approaches to them, and on top of that five major organizations to belong to. And for another Masquerade comparison, the groups aren't based on your race like this is Warcraft or something, and they're not the only all consuming global organizations that exist. There are hundreds of cultural or regional groups, and even the main ones have different expressions in different places. The Carthians of San Francisco may have more in common with the Invictus of New York than that city's Carthians.

And while "you can do anything in your game" is and always has been a thing, Requiem actually facilitates that, giving you plenty of options AND plenty of examples. While Beijing plays too much into "clan determines your everything", basically no sample domain in VtR2e is "average". And I love that. It's so much more refreshing than the Vampire Illuminati.

And I haven't even gotten to how much I love Humanity and Touchstones and what they represent in the narrative... But that's mostly 2e.

>>48578297

All of the Masquerade clans could fit into Requiem's clans, as the latter are more archetypical instead of having concrete histories. VtR also has more factions than VtM and they aren't openly warring in a Jyhad, allowing for more tensions and politics.

Overall, the game feels much more like personal horror, and has mechanics to reinforce it.

>>48578869
>I need to pick up the Dracula Dossier. I was thinking about having it be the center piece in the crossover, but I don't think Count Fucking Dracula meshes very well with the one that Edom wants to get. Maybe he can be a side character.
Count F████ING Dracula is Dracula's Promethean, if I remember the implications. Plus, it's not like you need to follow the setting exactly or anything.

>>48578906

I also like that there's so many valid origin myths compared to the one true Caine.

>>48578930

True, but having the two settings mesh is part of the fun! Like there's no way I'm NOT putting Telluric Vampires in it.

>>48578869

I mean, your Dracula can be whoever; the Dossier proposes like six different mortals he used to be, and allows everything from core Dracula to Cthukhu sorcerer Dracula to alien space bacteria Dracula.

>>48578411
>>48578469
>>48578523
>>48578884
>>48578931
I think I'm sold on it, I had no idea about the extra bloodlines within the clans and variations of it. Plus variances in the setting, I'll give it a shot, thanks!

>>48577444
that could still work. Just replace lucifer with random super powerful demon, and whatever magic he did with crazy infrastructure stuff.

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>>48579248
>I had no idea about the extra bloodlines within the clans
Bloodlines in Masquerade are "this Clan but slightly different". for instance City Gangrel and Country Gangrel, or Malkavians without Dementate. You'll rarely get a vastly different or even unrecognizable bloodline. The ones that are get considered Clans in their own right (like Tremere).

In Requiem, there are something like a twenty existing bloodlines for each Clan and you're encouraged to make your own. There are some Bloodlines that span generations and others with only a few members. They're often vastly different, taking one aspect or potential archetype of a Clan and emphasizing it. Many Masquerade Clans could be done as Requiem Bloodlines (and have been, like the Bruja and Toreador in the VtR 1e core, or the treatments in the Translation Guide). Hell, I've even made a Catgirl bloodline that's (in)famous in these threads.

Here's a list of the Bloodlines
http://wodcodex.com/wiki/Bloodlines

>Plus variances in the setting
CofD (previously nWoD) very much tries to be a setting, not some playground for pushing out future narratives that change everything, like oWoD's metaplot. As such, it's much easier to pick and choose what is and isn't true.
My favourite example of this is usually the VII book. It has THREE options to choose from. There's also Blasphemies, the Werewolf book that gives alternate origin myths and things to put a wrench in the story of Father Wolf. More recently is the God-Machine Chronicle, the book that updated the mechanics to 2e. It has several options for just what the God-Machine *is*, like an alien entity of a sentient Cold War computer; Demon of course doesn't seem to use any of those.
And, of course, like I said, the setting itself isn't homogenous, and different cities are going to have different social structures.

There's even the Dark Eras book for historical roleplaying, and Demon STG has Biblical and cyberpunk settings.

>>48577535
>Be other demon
>Appear to faggot bitching about not having a monster gf
>demand cuddles
>he keels over with a heart attack from years of sitting at home shitposting
>still no cuddles

>>48577850
I would give a nonvital organ to play this.

>>48579733
>protocols of the godmachine and scores of angels whos soul purpose is to ensure demons never get laid ever
truly this is hell on earth.

>>48578719
>It doesn't help that so much of it is presented as SEKRIT HISTORIES


This is my only real frustration with Masquerade. The setting history is so fucking amazing, and fucking vampires should have some way of keeping history alive better than humans because they're fucking still around from when it happened.

The overall metaplot designed to happen during the modern nights or after the game launched, I didn't like much. Most of it made cool novel ideas or was good for a big chronicle like MET or ONWBN but should have stayed metaplot for those groups because they were too big to properly work in a chronicle most people would actually be in. There are only supposed to be like 40 vampires active in an "overpopulated" camarilla city in the USA. Most people are going to have like 3-6 people in their game. Stuff like the week of nightmares doesn't really work with those types of numbers.

Also... I love masquerade, but I want to try requiem because one thing I've noticed about masquerade is that the clans tend to get boiled down by players to a tiny amount of what they could be, to the point where people fail to realize that until the modern nights, each clan aimed to be self sufficient and many of the independent or paranoid clans still do, so you're going to have a group that looks all the same on the outside but contains a lot of different people with similar disciplines "raised" by their sires with similar ideology but with radically different life experiences and talents. A well functioning independent clan should be at least aspiring to be more or less like a megacorp in shadowrun.

And it's hard to get characters from different clans on the same page in masquerade without resorting to cheap ST railroading or metagaming. Especially Camarilla coteries who are supposed to be low gen.

>>48580010

Ideally VtM would reboot itself entirely as a direct follow-up to Dark Ages: Vampire, with all clans as viable player options in the same coterie. The Jyhad and Sects are the weakest parts of VtM in my eyes.

Apparently my Promethean playtest is lifted. Ask away!

>>48580094
I could deal with that. I think Requiem handled that part a lot better, with the groups you could join that were less specific to clan or bloodline and more based on ideology. I'd especially like to see most vampires not belonging to a formal ancient covenant, but having them available to join.

I'd also really like to see more examples in the sourcebooks to get people to play one clan chronicles, especially new players. That's one of the better options in VTM if you can all agree on a clan and have good roleplayers who aren't immediately focused on some tiny part of the clan's hat. But I know getting gamers to agree is like herding cats.

>>48580010
I feel like it's important to point out that at this point, there is no more Metaplot. Metaplot is only something that happens DURING the life of a game. It's the way the game changes with each release and each no fiction book. It's Shadowrun giving story justification for mechanics changes, or mechanics changes based on what happens in the story. And much as I hate Masquerade, a lot of the problems for me don't come from Metaplot, but the setting... and, admittedly, how the setting is designed to take advantage of the "metaplot" concept, focusing on big power players and ancient histories as opposed to the actual meat of the game that your characters will be involved in, which isn't really the secret histories, it's the night to night living.

Of course, if you did follow along, then shit like The Week of Nightmares could wreck your chronicle ideas, and if you want to run a game set after the Week of Nightmares, it's really silly and your whole history gets bent around that point no matter where you set your game, which is the main problem with Metaplot in the first place. But, of course, if you ignore that, well, then you have to go "off book", like having Gangrel who aren't Unaligned, or Ravnos that are no longer supported

Also, Week of Nightmares works great... if the players are at the heart of it and dealing with it and stopping it and dealing with the fallout. Otherwise what's the point?

Anyway, check out Requiem. The Second Edition came out a few years ago, and it's a really good vertical slice of everything that made that setting better than Masquerade, refocused and tweaked. Although I will say that Bloodlines don't actually exist within the book; there are three of them as web supplements, but you really should make your own Bloodlines. If you ever ST, you should make Bloodlines with your group

Ironically, though, while I love the mechanics for Bloodlines, and love the way they're being done in 2e... Vampire plays perfectly well without them

>>48580288

Err, my NDA has been lifted.

>>48580288
What's Disquiet like now?
What are the new Transmutations like?
Do the Unfleshed and Extempore get their own unique Wasteland/Disquiet/powers? Are they any good?

>>48580094

Might as well be called "Requiem with metaplot" instead of Masquerade then

>>48580334
I really want to, but no one in my area will play it, so I'm stuck looking for another group online or something. And at that point, Geist is higher on my list of games to try, or a Ghouls:Fatal Addiction game based in the Carpathian Legacy Foundation.

I feel like a lot of that stuff was meant to give STs plot hook ideas, then big changes would happen like you mentioned that might mess up your planned plots. But a lot of that stuff was in there for people who wanted to play lower gen vampires as well, to give them ideas for the history and character concept and everything of their character, that gets IGNORED in favor of super shallow concepts a lot of the time.

>>48580288
I actually have a game of Promethean planned for this Saturday, hearing about this my group might end up trying 2e. What would be the biggest hurdles to get past if I have a character built very much on 1e?

>>48580485

Pretty nuch everything is different: Virtue/Vice get replaced, Refinements are different and provide a Role, there's a new morality stat, Transmutations are entirely different, etc.

It's a huge improvement. Get the new book on Wednesday.

>>48580337
>>48580288
>You got to playtest
You cheeky sumbitch, you keep bitching about never having games. You could have invited me!
Tell me all about it. What do you like, what do you dislike. Also, do you feel that your feedback was listened to?

>>48580435
Except the Masquerade setting is so ridiculously different from Requiem's on a cosmological level that saying that is incompetent. Also, he said nothing about metaplot. Though you know OWOD wants that.

>>48580455
The problem is that most games tend to focus on high Generation vampires. The default character option isn't going to be getting involved in high level bullshit. Even most Princes wouldn't be, and that's the position players are more interested in obtaining.

>>48580288
I thought you said you never play?

>>48580564
>Pretty nuch everything is different: Virtue/Vice get replaced, Refinements are different and provide a Role, there's a new morality stat, Transmutations are entirely different, etc.
Go into detail about the Virtue/Vice replacement. Tell me about the new Morality stat. What are Refinements like now?

>>48580620

This was over a year ago, and the chronicle was very short-lived! Still very fun.

Apologies for terse replies, I'll be on a real computer in a half hour or so.

Can the Adamant Hand merit apply for a ranged attack?

>>48580689
By default, no. It's explicitly Athletics, Brawl, or Weaponry.
Ask your ST about it.

>>48580689
>>48580729
Athletics covers throws and arrows.

Is death 3 enough to put someone in a prolonged death-like coma and keeping entropic forces away from deteriorating the body until they wake up?

what practice of Forces do you need to be floating/hover and move while suspended in the air

>>48580793
I answered that at the top of the thread. >>48569028
>Extend the Duration on Suppress Life and they won't even need the Coma part and can walk around.

>>48580564
So, tell us! How does the game work it so that people can actually /play/ the game? How does it handle intersplat parties? Is it still the game to read, or is it actually something people will play?

>>48580839
Weaving to lift yourself up and control where you go with telekinetic force(you'd need a decent Potency to lift yourself, though), Patterning to give yourself the ability to float and control where you go.

>>48580904
>How does it handle intersplat parties?
This question is never going to be handled in the core book for any game, except for Beast.
Even Mage just says 'its up to the ST to decide for now'

>>48580960
If it tells us how Disquiet affects other splats, it might.

>>48580434

Disquiet is based off of your Lineage, and impacts mortals that you spend too many scenes around, though this is slower than it sounds; it builds up over sessions, not individual scenes. The Galateid in our group had a man who loved the woman whose body she inherited, and Disquiet drove him to worship her as a goddess and stalk her when she rebuffed him.

Transmutations are nested categories of abilities gained from your Refinement, and you lose access to them when you switch Refinements unless you spend experience to lock them in. My group struggled with these rules originally, but wound up really enjoying them.
Wastelands don't differ from Lineage to Lineage mechanically, but that falls to the ST to narrate based on your relevant humour. The Unfleshed Wasteland is described in the book.

Wastelands are notably less terribly than in 1e; they now only build up if you're throwing Pyros around like a maniac, instead of just when you live somewhere. Promethean games no longer have to be on the road all the time!

>>48580949
>(you'd need a decent Potency to lift yourself, though)
Hey, fuck you. Not all of us can be pretty sexy skinny Life Adepts. Some of us have to take late nights with take out doing REAL work.

Can someone link a mega with that Humble Bundle stuff? or a link to Vampire Requiem 2e

>>48580621

Virtue and Vice are replaced with Elpis (the thing in humanity you aspire to most; note that this isn't inherently positive, with Fury and Sorrow being examples) and Torment (the thing that most distances you from humanity). I found both really intuitive in play even moreso than default Virtue/Vice.

Morality is replaced with Pilgrimage. The Great Work itself is your Morality stat, and you work with the ST to come up with subjects you want to explore and moments you want to hit as you grow.

Refinements are largely unchanged save for they're broken down further into Roles, human archetypes you exemplify in order to understand. All Aurum want to grasp humanity by emulating it, but a Companion explores that differently than a Leader does. The ten Refinements (Centimani isn't one, but Phosphorum is added) are divided into the Basic and Complex, and you need to have mastered one Role from two of each to complete the Great Work by default.

>>48580904

Disquiet builds up much more slowly, Wastelands aren't automatic, and the Pilgrimage now has a mechanical framework that steers you towards completion rather than being vague and unattainable.

It's a marked improvement in every regard.

>>48581117
>Morality is replaced with Pilgrimage. The Great Work itself is your Morality stat, and you work with the ST to come up with subjects you want to explore and moments you want to hit as you grow.
How does this work?

>>48581117
>and you need to have mastered one Role from two of each to complete the Great Work by default.

Kinda confused by that, so for instance if my character mastered Aurum and Cuprum they've mastered 2 Basic refinements and now need to master 2 Complex refinements?

>>48581226
Presumably it's similar to Mummy's Memory, where it starts out at 1 or 0, and as you complete milestones you gain points in it, but you can fall by doing really inhumane shit, or something.

>>48580868
Do I can make them hibernate that way? The little experiment is to have the subject be left out of time. Subject stays the same age while asleep.

>>48580288
Can a Promethean ever get strong/tough enough to go toe to toe with a werewolf?

>>48581274
Roles are aspects of the Refinements. As far as I understand it, a Refinement has multiple roles, some Complex and some Basic.

>>48581305
You'd want Time for that. Or I suppose with a Reach you could probably put someone into a Sleeping Beauty style thing.

>>48581226

Like in other 2e games, you answer a series of questions at character creation to shape your Integrity/Wisdom/whatever; these shape your Pilgrimage along with the Refinements and Roles you take, and then your Storyteller uses those to shape the Milestones you need to hit to raise your Pilgrimage stat.

One of my player characters was created by a cult to be their goddess, and so many of her milestones revolved around understanding both how to influence other people and the importance of faith.


Pilgrimage starts at 1 and goes up.

>>48581274

By default, yeah. You don't need to master the entire Refinement, just a Role from it, for it to count. You can either choose them organically or pick them ahead of time if you're working closely with your ST to shape your Milestones.

Fair warning; this book isn't terribly preachy about gender, but there are a lot of nonstandard pronouns. I quite like it, but expect a shitshow come Wednesday.

What's the difference between a Redeemer and an innocent?

I don't know much about Mage, but I was bored and watched this movie at work today. Could a Matter mage do something like this in game, effectively?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyw8973Ql30#t=2m20s

Specifically the dagger stabbing and returning

>>48581345
>a Refinement has multiple roles, some Complex and some Basic

Nope. Basic Refinements can be chosen at character creation while Complex require a mentor, though this can just as easily be a journal or Pyros-infused monument as another Promethean.

I believe Aurum, Cuprum, Ferrum, Plumbum, and Cobalus are the Basic, while Aes, Argentum, Cobalus, Merccurius, and Phosphorum are the Complex. All Refinements have three Roles.

>>48581375
Matter, Forces, Mind, Fate, Death with a bit of fiddling

>>48581408
Really, all 5 of those just to move a dagger into someone and back to your hand?

>>48581421
Forces allows telekinesis. You don't need Matter unless you want to change something about the knife, not just move it.

>>48581349
Ok, that makes sense thanks! Also I really shouldn't be surprised that some neckbeard getting upset about a game mentioning non standard pronouns and gender, why the fuck does that matter if the game is fun.

>>48578930
>Count F████ING Dracula is Dracula's Promethean
And Count Count is a Malkavian.

>>48581451

Of all the games to put it in, the game about dysphoric Frankenstein's monsters who have to build a new identity for themselves is probably the most natural fit. But I'm also one of those pesky SJWs, so maybe I just mind it less.

>>48581421
All are capable of doing it, you don't need moe than 1

>>48581117
>with Fury and Sorrow being examples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CPQhYGJ0kY
Come on, you knew I was going to do this.

>>48581349
>Pilgrimage starts at 1 and goes up.
Neat. That was going to be my next question. So is there a big secret list, or is this something you work on together? What happens if you just... change your mind later on? What if this Goddess decides to not influence people but to become agnostic and less attached to religion, or finds influencing people the way she can unethical?

Also, does this mean that Promethean origins are less defined than "you were created by a promethean who was created by a Promethean who was created by so on"?

>expect a shitshow come Wednesday.
I expected that no matter what.

>>48581385
Ah, explain this more, then? What's the deal with a Complex Refinement? I mean, are they like the Exploits, and meant to be a fusion of other things, or what? Are they just harder for Prometheans to grok?

>>48581408
How Death? Also, I feel like Fate wouldn't do this. Too overt.

>>48581421
No, you wouldn't need them all. He's saying which Arcana could do it. Forces is the most obvious answer, though. I don't think Mind can do telekinesis anymore, unless you create a Goetia.

>>48581454
You're a Malkavian if you think that.

>>48581451
>why the fuck does that matter if the game is fun.
Because or a lot of posters, acknowledging that other people and things in the real world outside of their understanding exist makes them angry.

>>48581349
How does Pilgrimage work, anyway? I mean, it starts at 1 and goes up, but how is it relevant and when is it used and what does it determine? Can you lose Pilgrimage?

>>48581486
>How Death? Also, I feel like Fate wouldn't do this. Too overt.

Patterning/Making = you can pull this stuff out of your ass as long as you're prepared to eat some Paradox/Dissonance

>>48581421
Not all of them, no. He's giving different arcana that could potentially do it.
Ruling or Weaving Matter could cause it to come back to you, if your ST allows it(magnetically, sort of)
Weaving Forces would just straight up pull it back with telekinesis
Fraying Time could undo the throw, but leave the wound, bringing it back to your hand

I can't really think of a way Mind, Fate, or Death could do it.
Patterning Fate could MAYBE cause a strong magnetic force to form right behind the blade, to fling it back to you.
Fraying/Unravelling/Unmaking Death could un-stab the guy, but the knife wouldn't come back to you
Mind...there's no way, really.

>>48581486
>You're a Malkavian if you think that.
No I'm not, it's perfectly rational.

>>48581503
Not how it works. It still has to make sense, in some way, with the Practice and Arcanum in question

>>48581507
Mind could make the guy THINK the knife came back to you.

>>48581503
You can't Pattern or Make a knife move with Death. You can cause someone to die, sure, but the action that killed him is the knife moving into his chest, then coming back out and into Erik's hand.

>>48581507
>Fraying Time could undo the throw, but leave the wound, bringing it back to your hand
That'd be pretty sweet.
Also, in 1e, Mind allowed for "I'M PSYCHICALLY MOVING IT!" because in 1e Mind could do anything.

>>48581524
That's not very useful.

>>48581520
Fate - some Mage long ago or a long time from now will use Time magic to lay these effects with a contigency activation, which your Fate Patterning allowed you to trigger

>>48581480

I spoke to one of the writers and that was apparently intentional. The whole Cobra Unit is in there.

>>48581486

Both options are presented. I preferred to take a step back and be transparent, saying "hey, are these specific narrative beats a good framework for you?" but you can just as easily keep it secret. Being vague and adaptive is good; "learn what faith means to the grieving" is a better milestone than "learn that people turn to faith because they want the dead to be in heave."

Refinements are your social axis, a loose philosophy of ideals to focus your Pilgrimage on. Your Promethean wants to explore what physical identity and athleticism means to them, and adopt the Refinement of Ferrum while they explore those topics.

>>48581537
>The whole Cobra Unit is in there.
Yay!

>>48581537
>The whole Cobra Unit is in there.
TELL
ME
MORE

can you control Ice under Forces?

>>48581666

Just their emotions are the example Elipdes; Fury, Joy, Sorrow, Pain, Fear, plus some others.

>>48581692
Heat is Forces, so yes.

Compelling can make ice melt slower or faster, Ruling can remove heat from water to make ice form, etc.

>>48581692
Define control.

>>48581025
>Wastelands are notably less terribly than in 1e; they now only build up if you're throwing Pyros around like a maniac, instead of just when you live somewhere.
Is it weird that I actively dislike this? I like how it forced Prometheans to move on and experience as much of the world as they can. Promethean being the Travelling Chronicle by default contrasted with every other game's "pick one city and spend your entire game there" was neat, and a nice break from, say, Vampire, with its "and here's two dozen reasons why vampires never move from locale to locale, ever".

>>48581732
glacier spikes/blades

>>48581537
So what's the Unfleshed Wasteland?

>>48581774
I'd say that would be matter.

>>48581774
That's Matter.
Freezing then levitating water would still be in your preview though.

You could even do it with a simple transform energy spell. Heat into kinetic.

>>48581912
"See that lake? Now it's an EXPLODING ICEBURG!!"

Fuckin Mages

>>48581692
You can decrease and remove heat with Forces. You can create cold with Death.

>>48581774
>>48581851
>>48581912
Forces, Death, Matter. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

>>48573618
I just noticed, but is there a new skull for Promethean?

Mage keeps the ugly skull

So, Jakki, tell us about Athanors and being Redeemed.

>>48581987
I've never really seen anything wrong with it, other than being a bit boring. Much as I'll defend Beast from a lot of the criticisms, it's skull is also the shittiest.

Vampire's is ironically the best. Original Promethean one was also really well done. Changeling and Hunter and Mage are shitty for just being "a skull surrounded by shit/with a star on the forehead"

>>48582004
Also, tell me more about the Azothic Memory mentioned in >>48573618 and the trials that the Lineages face. That sounds definitely new. Nepri didn't necessarily have a disability, and Tammuz didn't have anything to do with language (if anyone did, that was the Muses)

>>48581770

Pretty much everyone but you and me hated it, sadly. It's a concession to making the game more approachable, which is fine.

>>48581795
>An Unfleshed, enriched by the humour of oil, finds that his Disquiet somehow encourages people to treat him as even less than other Prometheans. Taken for granted, he is seen as hired help at best, or a slave at worst. And woe unto the Manufactured who does not cater to people's every whim. An Unfleshed Wasteland also sees a sharp dichotomy between dominant and subservient creatures; a new hierarchy might emerge amongst humans, whilst predatory animals completely wipe out prey and stronger plants overrun weaker ones.

The Unfleshed inherited the slave thing the Tammuz had in 1e, while the Tammuz are now more focused on hard work and language stuff.

>>48582022

Azothic Memory is the knowledge imparted by the Divine Fire upon creation: the ability to speak and the rough idea that you need to undertake the Great Work and how to go about doing that.

Nepri had a missing body part as core to their creation ritual even in 1e; Osiris is missing his genitals, and the examples had missing eyes, limbs, fingers...

>>48582004

Athanors are wholly different from 1e, and are now objects imbued with emotional weight, memory, and instruction on the Pilgrimage. A Promethean may create an Athanor that carries what they've learned on a given Refinement, and another may learn that Refinement from it.

>>48581770
>>48582457
>Pretty much everyone but you and me hated it, sadly. It's a concession to making the game more approachable, which is fine.
Actually, I liked it. It's not like this completely invalidates that, but I did prefer the magical spirit quest. I mean, wasn't Kung Fu listed in the inspiration for Promethean? It's literally about a pilgrimage.
Wasteland was never actually that unmanageable anyway.

>The Unfleshed inherited the slave thing the Tammuz had in 1e, while the Tammuz are now more focused on hard work and language stuff.
eh. Aren't they still meant to be the Golem of Prague?

>Nepri had a missing body part as core to their creation ritual even in 1e; Osiris is missing his genitals, and the examples had missing eyes, limbs, fingers...
Yeah, but they didn't necessarily have to have a disability. A missing pinky isn't crippling, and while a missing dick could cause social or emotional problems, it's not exactly the kind of thing that gives a Condition.

>>48582473
Huh...
I'm not sure how to feel about that. So do they not have a Z splat? I'd assumed that in 2e, there'd be more done to make becoming human feel like less of a downgrade for the "why would I get rid of my powers" crowd.
Plus, I did like the way Athanors could be used to set yourself up cushy and with supernatural benefits even after you become a Human.

Did anyone in your group actually become achieve a New Dawn?

>>48582562
>Aren't they still meant to be the Golem of Prague?

They're the Golem in that they are created and bound by language; it's more about having the magic word on your forehead than being a servant, which is now more of the Unfleshed focus.

Promethean doesn't really have a z-splat, but Refinements are involved enough now to make up for a lot of that. Your group could easily share a Refinement but all take different Roles and feel satisfyingly diverse.

My chronicle folded early, sadly. The players only got two Refinements in.

>>48582593
What are the mechanics for getting to the New Dawn?

>>48581526
>Also, in 1e, Mind allowed for "I'M PSYCHICALLY MOVING IT!" because in 1e Mind could do anything.

Oh really?
Where did that happen?
Because Telekinesis has always been a Forces thing.

>>48582616

Complete at least east Roles across at least four Refinements and then roll Pilgrimage as a dice pool with some modifiers. If you only do the bare minimum, you become a mortal John Doe with amnesia and scattered memories of your past; completing more Refinements gives you the choice of retaining your memories or becoming a mortal who retroactively has always existed, much like a Demon's Cover.

>>48582675
>becoming a mortal who retroactively has always existed, much like a Demon's Cover.
So how much implied connection is there between the Principle and the God-Machine?

Actually, was there much on the Principle and the Qashmallim?

>>48582695
>So how much implied connection is there between the Principle and the God-Machine?

None, they're the same thing, they're brothers and the Dark Mother is their sister.

>Actually, was there much on the Principle and the Qashmallim?

No, and it aggravates me

>>48582695

One small section says "either they're related or they aren't, it's up to you, here's some options, most Prometheans aren't likely to ever touch on this though."

So really about as much connection as there was before. The Demon Storyteller's Guide touches on this somewhat as well Everyone knows the Principle is the Empyrean and the source of all souls, and the God-Machine is its Fallen mirror.

>>48582700
>None, they're the same thing, they're brothers and the Dark Mother is their sister.

Considering that the Dark Mother is the creator of monsters, they ought to be her children.

>>48582780
Beasts don't do Kinship with Demons.
Because Demons are FROM SPACE

>>48582705
>One small section says "either they're related or they aren't, it's up to you, here's some options, most Prometheans aren't likely to ever touch on this though."
Lame. What are the options?
>The Demon Storyteller's Guide touches on this somewhat as well Everyone knows the Principle is the Empyrean and the source of all souls, and the God-Machine is its Fallen mirror.
Less lame. Better than GMC suggesting the Principle is a rogue shard. Empyrean?

Personally, I like the idea that if the two were fused it would give every "fix daddy" minded Integrator a joygasm.

>>48582780
Principle is her father, God Machien is her son, both are her brothers, she's their grandparents

The Dark Mother is Luna

Or I guess more accurately Luna is one of the guises She wears.

What are the mechanics of Extempore? What are the details about the other Lineages?

>>48582803

They're unrelated. The Principle came first and has been surpassed by the Machine. The Principle is change while the Machine is stasis. The Principle has been dethroned by the Machine as humanity grows.

It also proposes that Machine Angels are made out of captured qashmallim, and states that they don't share the same wavelength of Twilight.

>>48582819
One of her avatars, yes. Another is The Crone.

>>48582820

Extempore have their own Bestowments but are encouraged to build or modify new ones, you choose a humour at character creation, and they lack Azothic Memory.

test test

>>48582835
So The Principle is like the Wyld and the G-M is like the Weaver? Then what best fits the Wyrm?

>>48582891

Ammut?

Some Reach add an effect to a spell.

Some specifically say they can be used more than once.

Some are neither; they provide a buff but don't say they can be used more than once.

Can you apply these Reach multiple times?

In particular I'm thinking of Bolster Spirit, with its +1 Rank Reach.

Is there support for this one way or the other in the book?

>>48582906
If it doesn't say you can apply it more than once, you can't.

And in the specific case of the Rank-increasing ones, hells no.

>>48581974
>>48581987

That's not a new skull for Promethean. It's the Extempore symbol.

>>48582931
Thank you.

>>48582931
Quick question I've asked before - repeating spells under the indefinite duration, do they continue to take affect once outside the selected range?

If I use Incinerate at Sensory on someone and then leave,does it keep affecting him or someone else within my new sensory range when the spell repeats?

How about aimed spells?

What are the effects of Azoth and Pilgrimage?

Is it possible to negotiate with Ephemera without the various spells that force them to do things?

Like if you want to go "I'll pay you one ephemera and make it easier for you to manifest if you help me cross this ravine" or something.

Someone suggested Social Maneuvering, but spirits don't have Composure and Resolve and most of them don't have Virtue and Vice, either.

I'm not sure if they even get Aspirations.

So pretty much every stat used in Social Maneuvering doesn't apply to ephemera.

Does the Mage 2e book cover this? Or any other book?

Also, can you learn Shadow speak (whatever it's called)? That seems to be the only type of ephemera which doesn't default to mortal languages or High Speech, which mages start with anyway.

>>48583012
As in you set the room on Fire?

>>48583173
Just use resistance for Doors.
Consider their aspiration to be survival.
Also remember Spirits cannot act outside of their nature, which makes it impossible to convince them to do so, which is a thousand times better than virtues and vices.

Also look into the Book of Spirits for more info on spirit tongue and related topics.

Is there somewhere to find a catalog of all WoD books? I want to find out which ones I have and dont have.

>>48583012
If you've cast on a specific subject, whether by touching, aiming, or sensory range, the spell keeps going even if they then move.

If you use the area part of the scale tables, to affect everyone in an area, then if someone leaves the area they stop being affected (and if someone wanders *into* it, they start).

You seem to be confused about aimed spells, equating them with range and scale. It is totally possible to cast an aimed spell that affects an area; the result is like a spell-effect grenade.

>>48583173

See werewolf 2e for how spirits act in the social manuevering system. (you basically have to bribe them with chiminage to force doors, iirc)

Spirit Tongue is a language like any other; you can learn it, if you have access to some way of doing so. But they don't exactly make Rosetta tapes for it, you know?

>>48583367
>>48583252
Thank you both.

>>48583346
You write anything for Promethean Dave?

>>48583367
You could have a Spirit that speaks your language (book says some do) teach you, maybe?

Would an Unveiling Spirit spell also let you do it temporarily?

I always liked the idea of racketeering the spirit world. Say there is a lake spirit that isn't cooperating. I'd find a pollution spirit give him some essence, make friends, let it slip that there is an innocent lake spirit over yonder. It'd be a shame if someone with a Ban to ruin the great outdoors would attack him.

>>48583388
Qashmallim and Firestorms

>>48583346
Spells with an instant effect but adcanced duration recur once every ritual casting cycle, so every hour for a Gnosis3 mage.

If I throw an aimed Incinerate with a duration of indefinite then every hour a new Incinerate will trigger. Does it keep going after the target or do I have to stay near him.

>>48582839
>>48582819
Actually, I honestly think The Dark Mother is the same thing as The Unity, one of the Exarchs, my reasons:
The Dark Mother has to be a supernal being, to have this much control over all kinds of supernaturals.
Both are mind-based entities.
Both try to keep people in line via fear of the outside.
Supernal beings can relatively easily create avatars, which explains things like Luna, The Crone, the female Demiurges of Promethean (I'll argue that women were instrumental in the creation of all the major lineages.)

>>48583714
The Exarchs are Supernal entities, not Mental entities.
Only a few Exarchs seek that kind of fear, some seek blind national pride or other such aims.
The Dark Mother (and all Beasts) are creatures of the Astral, not the Supernal. Representatiosn of all Supernaturals exist in the Astral, which is how they can connect to them.

Also Supernal Avatars are just as subject to Dissonance as any other Supernal effect.
Beasts do not cause this.

>>48583861
>The Exarchs are Supernal entities, not Mental entities.

The Unity is the Exarch of Mind, though.

>>48581066
>▶
>Can someone link a mega with that Humble Bundle stuff?

I need it too.

>>48583346
>then if someone leaves the area they stop being affected (and if someone wanders *into* it, they start).
What about when you are in a moving object, like a large ship or plane? Do area Spells move with you or stay anchored relative to the planet?
Are they affected by continental drift?

I know the last one sounds like a ridiculous question, but if they are that opens some potentially great hooks for age old horrors getting free thanks to continents moving them out of their imprisoning spells.

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>>48582839
Saying The Dark Mother is the Crone is practically a nonstatement.

>>48582844
>they lack Azothic Memory.
Wouldn't that mean they can't speak and shit?
How would I make Nana Natsu?

>>48583487
Tell me about Qashmallim

>>48583657
With an Aimed spell the target is self. You're just throwing it afterwards.

>>48584664
>Are they affected by continental drift?
In general I'd say no, but don't let that stop your plot hook. Keep in mind that we're all hurtling through space at several thousand kilometers per second.

>>48567402
>you will never begin to become romantically attached to a Werewolf.
>you will never enjoy eating a venison roast while she annihilates an entire side of deer herself
>you will never be forced out of your cautious safe space to do a omega insane hazing ritual to impress her pack so they don't kill you for thinking you're good enough for their little sister
>you will never watch her call you an idiot after saying you don't need to impress anyone, though you can tell she's more than a little turned on by your bloodied mouth
>you will never cuddle warm against her fur while she licks blood, both your own and the bear's from your body
>you will never hear her pack mates fake howling outside to affectionately mock you both for sneaking off alone
WHY EVEN LIVE

>>48584903
>With an Aimed spell the target is self. You're just throwing it afterwards

Really? That's actually really helpful, thanks.

>When is your next game?
Next Week on Thursday, though we meet in the bigger round before that on Tuesday to play my Earthdawn campaign.
We play oWoD Werewolf in Norway.
Shit's dope.
We found and (thanks to 3/5 of our players having 4 or higher ressource backgrounds) aquired an old Nazibunker with a lot of 'artifacts' (though a lot of them are bogus) and tons of files about them.
We now have perpetually hired some students that scan-in the old documents into a database and my glasswalker has written an algorythm that analyses said daily growing database to periodically weed out actually interesting things.
We basically have a plotmachine that periodically spits out plothooks, whenever we don't have to deal with local shit.
Like needing the vamps help, because the city council, in which we don't have much influence, was trying to pass a bill in order to mass camera-surveiling the lake bordering our caern because BIRDS.

>>48583430
Knowing Spirit would

>>48584664
>Do area Spells move with you or stay anchored relative to the planet?
That's entirely up to you at the time of casting. If you say the area of the spell is centered on yourself, it'll move with you. If you say it's centered wherever you cast it, it'll do it's best to stay in that position, relative to everything around it. If you say it's centered at a fixed point in space, it'll drift away.
Use some common fucking sense, m8

>>48583284
best bet is scrolling through the relevant splat on rpg drivethru, its what i do

>>48582891
The Supernal

>>48586353
Cheers for the tip

>>48585040
Basically, yeah. You're not changing the target from it's default (self), but instead of letting it stay on you, you're aiming it and 'throwing' it.

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>>48583284

>>48586509
Cheers buddy. How up to date is this? and is this new or old world of darkness?

>>48586520
that is all of owod. and just that.

>>48586531
Cheers again man!

Does Goetia have a physical appearance? I mean, like spirits and shit. Can I bind it to objects or structures?

>>48582819
What if I told you that the Dark Mother was inside you all along

>>48581282
Base memory is 3 since the game assumes you aren't a total automaton once your sekhem drops from the heady heights you start at when you first wake up.

>>48586985
:>

Hey, this is probably not the right place to ask this, but does anyone have that V:tM story of that vampire player who decided he was a super hero?

>>48586985
I'm a milf?

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>>48587317
The Crimson Bat? Or actual people that thought VtM was real and they were vampires? Because I know both.

>>48587409
The crimson bat one

>>48587409
Now post the other one

>>48587409
>Playing VtM as Superheroes With Fangs literally for once
Goddamn would I love to have this guy in my game.

>>48587409
>It all made sense based on the character
"I made a bad character" is never justification.

I honestly hate "it's what my character would do" as an excuse. It's never "I'm giving up the gold because it's what my character would do", it's "I'm raping and razing because it's what my character would do".

That's not even what real people would do.

>>48588044
I hate how every time someone trolls their group with an annoying out of tone character, /tg/ treats it like the most creative hilarious brilliant thing ever.

>>48588044
i played a mekhet crime fighter in a larp for a few years. being a crime fighting sheriff sure as shit makes your humanity plummet.

I can answer more Promethean questions!

>>48588116

Can you give us a play by play of the actual playtest itself?

>>48588106
>/tg/ treats it like the most creative hilarious brilliant thing ever.
I didn't say it's the most creative hilarious brilliant thing ever, I said he'd be fun to have in my game.

Taking the whole "superheroes with fangs" derogatory nickname and just deciding to literally do that is fairly clever, though.

>>48588116
Are prometheans cross-over friendly with Mages. Demons, and Beasts in terms of powerlevel?

>>48584943
Our Thyrsus is stuck doing this in my game, thanks to an unfortunately-timed Exceptional Success on a social roll.

He's rolling with it surprisingly well.

>>48588146

Our Galateid was made by an apocalypse cult that scattered after her creation, leaving one cultist who grew increasingly obsessed with her as Disquiet built up. Our Frankenstein was built by a reclusive scientist who wanted a daughter, but if I remember right she accidentally killed him; she wound up running with one of those girls' gangs at a local high school. Our chronicle was set in modern Tokyo.

We didn't get terribly far in, but we did get to explore a lot of Japanese urban legends as part of the High Weirdness of Promethean, and we fot far enough in to have everyone change Refinements once. Seeing the variant effects of Disquiet was a blast (the Galateid picking up a stalker, the Frankenstein leading everyone to violence that eventually turned in on her), and the new mechanical structure of milestones and the Pilgrimage are A+.

>>48567402
who is this cute?

So is there going to be new scion and trinity stuff at gen con?

>>48588315

Yes! I'm jealous of those who get to go and see new stuff/get free stuff.

>>48588262
Winnie the Werewolf, from Scooby-Doo, based on a quick google image search.

>>48588315
Probably, but we don't know for sure.

>>48588405
Thank ye

>>48588158
I don't have a problem with playing a superhero. I played a Proximus superhero in a MUSH. He didn't instantly become cartoonishly inept the moment he realized he had superpowers (though he did love comics and at least convinced himself that he might be an alien or something). He realized that the world is a shitty place and did his best to stop people from getting mugged or raped or burgled, and eventually he got dragged into Mage shit and acted as a Herald for his cabal thanks to his ability to do that Batman thing where he sneaks up on you, then leaves without warning.

I'm *all for* being a superhero in the WoD, possibly even literally. I had a carved wooden owl mask and dressed like an Assassin's Creed character.

My problem is acting like a cartoon character and being intentionally annoying to the group.

>>48588253
It sounds like mortal demiurges are more possible now, and Prometheans aren't going to all come from other Prometheans.

>>48588405
>Winnie the Werewolf, from Scooby-Doo
Are the new Scooby shows treating the Supernatural as a thing that exists? I know all the movies have.

>>48588524
Winnie is from the Ghoul School movie, years ago

I haven't watched the shows in years, but I know one of the recent ones had Scooby as a descendant of animal-aliens who came to Earth, thus explaining why he could talk.

>>48588524
>I'm all for being a cartoon character, except for the part about being a cartoon character.

>>48588524
>My problem is acting like a cartoon character and being intentionally annoying to the group.
What part of "this guy would work well in my group" means "he worked well in that other group and he should keep trolling them"?

>>48588646
>Implying all superheroes are annoying idiots
M8 have you ever read a comic book?

>>48588714
He's very clearly a silver-age superhero.

I'll admit that VtM-as-superheroes would work better as a parody of 90s superheroes, though, yeah.

>>48588116
Is it possible to make the Centimani playable with some tweaks? What are mortal alchemists like?

>>48588632
wut

Also, I remember that 13 Ghosts also did the supernatural being real.

>>48588646
Not every superhero is Aquaman from Brave and the Bold. Shit, there are actual real life superheroes, did you know that? They dress up in costumes but often have body armour as well, and tend to have at least a little self-defense training and carry things like mace. They make citizens arrests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-life_superhero
Yeah, things get a bit more punchy when you've got actual super powers, but "fighting crime in a costume" doesn't mean you have to completely ignore reality and treat Werewolves and Tzimisce as SatAM cartoon villains, or make your Sire shine the Crimson Bat Signal, or start calling everyone by superhero names even when they've asked you not to. Or generally one of a hundred things that if you were part of a criminal organization would get you killed on principle.

>>48588711
Despite what they say, most people would not want to play a game with Old Man Henderson, Sir Bearington, or The Crimson Bat. Not a serious game where they care about the plot, at least.

>>48588791
>He's very clearly a silver-age superhero.
Yes, and those characters are not realistic or reasonable.
>I'll admit that VtM-as-superheroes would work better as a parody of 90s superheroes, though, yeah.
My point is to not act like a parody at all. You don't HAVE to be a parody to be a superhero in the WoD.

>>48588827
>dissing on BntB Aquaman
Fuck off

Actually, I just realized my problem with Proximi and how they're done in 2e and what I would have liked to see instead:

I'd rather Proximi Blessings were more like Legacy Attainments. That sort of natural-as-breathing thing.

>>48588843
He's a great character. For a cartoon.
Not so much for a game of Vampire: The Masquerade, where the metaphysics of the setting prevent you from acting like a cartoonish buffoon. I'm not saying you need to be a dour brooding edge character. I'm just saying that a Brujah that acts like Aquaman is completely at odds with the setting, and ignores things like the ennui vampires experience, or the literal demonic entity in their soul.

Those are aspects of the setting that are integral to it. And, well, Atamajakki's forum signature is dumb and on the nose, but there's no better way to say it:
>If your problem is "I don't like the core premise of a game," consider that your solution might be "play something else."

And we're back to capeshit, why don't you guys start a Mutants & Masterminds general?

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>>48588524
That picture is actually from one of the many spooky girl threads on /co/. Last year in May a huge vampire thread got started and soon became three. I believe Creepy Susie threads had been showing up sometime before that, but it really got going when those threads and a Ghoul School thread exploded and got a bunch of fan art. Things got real crazy around Halloween and Christmas. You can now find those kinds of threads on a semi regular bases. They mostly try to hold to holidays, but someone always jumps the gun.

Pictured: Gruftine from the German cartoon Die Schule der kleinen Vampire (School for Vampires), Phantasma from Ghoul School, and Creepy Susie from the Oblongs. They're all usually aged up in fan art, but not always.

>>48588827
>Yeah, things get a bit more punchy when you've got actual super powers, but "fighting crime in a costume" doesn't mean you have to completely ignore reality and treat Werewolves and Tzimisce as SatAM cartoon villains, or make your Sire shine the Crimson Bat Signal, or start calling everyone by superhero names even when they've asked you not to. Or generally one of a hundred things that if you were part of a criminal organization would get you killed on principle.
The character clearly enjoys the theatrics just as much as the costume. If he's got the superpowers to pull it off, why not? Sure he's eccentric, but he got the job done. Hell, he beat the hell out of a fucking werewolf. That's incredibly impressive in oWoD.

>>48589032
>Missing the fucking point
Actually my argument is that if you're going to do over the top four colour shit, you should do it in a different game. If you're going to do superheroes in WoD, you should make them fit the setting.

>>48589084
>Sure he's eccentric, but he got the job done.
He's the kind of character that by all accounts should be dead. No sire is going to put up with those kind of antics. Neither would a Prince.
Hell, it's practically a masquerade breach

>>48589084
No! THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY TO PLAY A GAME AND THAT'S THE ONE TRUE WAY! ALL ELSE IS NOT ONLY BADWRONGFUN BUT IS ALSO FUCKING ANNOYING TO EVERYONE EVERYWHERE!

>>48589202
Are you really this incompetent?

"Don't play a character that goes against the setting just to annoy your group" is far from One True Wayism.

So in real life what are the limits to how much ammo you can have for a gun at once?

>>48589223

>The only legitimate playstyle is my playstyle

>>48589322
What else are you carrying? If nothing and you're in fatigues with carry webbing then a lot

>>48589354
Anon, "playing in a way that deliberately annoys the group" is literally the only universally wrong playstyle. Why are you defending that, you incompetent little shitheel.

>>48588810

They use the same rules as any Refinement, but lack rolls and cannot progress in the Pilgrimage until they change Refinements again. You can play one right out of the box.

Also; Pandorans are an unexpected highlight of the book.

>>48589189
>>48589223
Except literally nobody said he fit well in that group and should have been ruining their fun.

One person said he'd work well in HIS group, who ostensibly play less angsty broody serious games, but that's not remotely the same thing.

>>48589322
In America? There aren't, really. You can buy hundreds of bullets from K-Mart if you want.

>>48589542
>Pandorans are an unexpected highlight of the book.
Tell us more.

>>48589645

There's a Pandoran that thinks it's on the Pilgrimage, and wants to become a Centimanus so it can then become a regular Promethean.

>>48589799
What if it is?

>>48589576
Actually, the guy said "I'd want him in my group", not that he'd work well. And if you get to the point where everyone is playing a character like that, you really might as well play a different game, because you're doing things that aren't supported or are supported badly.

>>48589799
How does that even work.

>>48588116
Can Promethean's be more sociable now? I remember them being pro anti social last edition.

>>48590087
They're magic hobos

That's a feature, not a bug

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>>48589799
I find that infinitely sad.

>>48590087

Disquiet is now a series of worsening Conditions that build up around mortals you spend time with, but there are powers that let you mitigate that. There are plenty of social Transmutations.

>>48588180

I mean, they'll be inflicting Disquiet on everyone else pretty steadily; that's a decent detriment to crossover. I don't remember Prometheans being obscenely powerful, closer to 2e Vampires other than being damn hard to kill.

>>48590546
Tell me everything about the Qashmallim. Do they work like other ephemeral having Ranks or do they work closer to the Strix?
What sort of powers do they have, do they get Dreadpowers?

>>48590546
>other than being damn hard to kill.
do they still have that thing where even full of bashing damage they can just keep going?

>>48590746

They were similarly to other epehemeral beings but are on a different wavelength of Twilight from ghosts and spirits. No Rank, but an effective Azoth rating. They use Numina.

A decent portion of the qashmallim section questions why you need any rules for them, as they're essentially incarnate plot devices.

>>48590087
>>48590163
I played a Social Promethean in 1e. It was never as bad as people thought.

>>48591049
>A decent portion of the qashmallim section questions why you need any rules for them, as they're essentially incarnate plot devices.
In case one of the Lilithim (or whatever the chaos/destruction kind are called) is doing bad stuff and your players need to stop it?

>>48591009
Don't Vampires and Werewolves have that too?

>>48591049
So is the azoth rating up to 5 or like strix go up to 10m

>>48591009
They could keep going when full of LETHAL damage. Their body has to be falling apart from Agg damage before they'll slow down.

>>48591227
It seems like a general design principle at this point for some kind of bashing or lethal resistance, in one way or another. As far as I know, all of the splats in 2e have access to something like it.

>>48591337
Vampires downgrade even aggravated to lethal, don't they?

>>48591399
Only with Resilience. They don't get it in-built, so to speak.

Any last Promethean questions before I go to work? Book should be out tomorrow, hope I've helped get you all excited for it.

>>48591399
1e vampires only downgraded guns to bashing.
2e vampires downgrade all weapons to Bashing, and (I think) nonmagical/nonBane sources of Agg to Lethal.

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>>48591399
They do downgrade aggravated damage, if it's from a none supernatural source.

>>48591458
Merits, tell us about the new merits

>>48591502
>"certain supernatural punishments" downgrade to Lethal
>"Disciplines, Devotions, and 'sorceries'" do Agg
So which supernatural abilities are and are not downgraded?

>>48591546
Things that are innately magical.
For example the basic claws from protein does does not count.

>>48591521

A fighting style, a handful of tweaks to the template (eat more things, make less severe Wastelands, etc), a spirit familiar for the Ulgan, a Promethean-specific Safe Place... Nothing horrendously out of the expected. There's a pair of fun ones about drawing on your body's memories for help.

>>48591602
I'm glad the fighting style and the eat-anything merit are still there.

Is it rape if she's in Torpor?

Suppose that I'm playing an Ordo Dracul Daeva who wants to get into the Underworld and out again on a regular basis. What are the mechanically supported ways to do that without homebrewing something?

I know that you can just learn about a gate and its specific key, but I feel like working towards a more general solution is a good character goal. I'm short on ideas for the details there, though.

>>48568035
>V20 game set in Chicago

Romance Rebekah, you insufferable fag

>>48571782
Status will help you get discounted couches through customs, "bypassing" tariffs and inspections.

Allies will help you sell your illicit couches through blackmarket channels, and might even help you move one if you asked, expecting a similar favor in the future.

Retainers are the cute ghoul slaves you violate on your couch

>>48578884
>There's no ancient fuckboys

Fucking dropped

>>48580455
>or a Ghouls:Fatal Addiction game based in the Carpathian Legacy Foundation.

That's pretty dope. Fatal Addiction remains one of my favorite VTM books.

>>48582819
I want to FUCK the Dark Mother

>>48591227
>>48591337
Vampires in 2e still take wound penalties and if they get full bashing or lethal are out.
Prometheans will keep coming until they're dead. They'll lose body parts and bite your ankles as a skull.

Im looking for Wraith: The Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition. Can anybody share, please.

>>48592878
Who?

>>48592647
>Is it sexual intercourse without consent if they can't give consent?

>>48592807
Basically just that. You could also work with rituals for giving places the Open and Avernian Gateway Conditions, but that's more or less "homebrewing", or requires the ST to facilitate it.

>>48593033
>Wanting ancient fuckboys getting up in your shit
Why would you ever.

>>48593125
Well... >>48586985

>>48593230

Not out yet.

>>48593125
She is the ultimate milf.

>>48592647
Literally speaking its necrophilia. You're fucking a dead body dude

>>48592878
Who?
Also I'm gay so no thanks

>>48593230
Give it a few years, maybe

>>48593273
>>48593451

>Expected: September 2014

ffs

>>48593499
>Anyone actually expecting Wraith20 in 2014

>>48593499
That's when it got started being written. Expected clearly doesn't refer to expected on shelves.

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>>48593499
Look at this idiot

>>48593574
>>48593583

I see. Hope they finish Changeling in this decade.

>>48593242
>>48593441
>Who?

She's the Sixth Generation qt that's an Ancient Judean spy-turned-assassin-turned-Cainite Porto-Anarch-turned-Inconnu Monitor-turned-secret supporter of Maldavis.


IIRC, she Havens at the Shedd Aquarium.

>>48593775
So far the only canon characters we've met, afaik, are
>Lodin: He's the fucking Prince, of course we know him
>Tyler: My dude's Sire, hasn't actually shown up yet, though
>Modius: Stopped by his house for a sec to introduce ourselves since we were venturing into Gary to look for a guy who'd been fucking with us
>Sullivan Dane: Hunting my dude
>Gengis: Met him at the Succubus Club, he mistook me for an Anarch, later took me to a meeting with a bunch of other Anarchs(only ones I got names for were a couple of Caitiff kids and some old crazy guy I can't remember the name of)
>Some poncy British Navy Captain guy: Met him at the Succubus Club, punched him the fuck out
>The Sheriff: Showed up at the Anarch meeting and set the place on fire as justice for 'one of you punks' punching the Captain
>Hinds: His name got dropped after Dane first attacked me, when a detective showed up to stop him; some woman called the detective, and said to give me Hinds regards. Hinds has no clue who she is.

>>48593989
Videotape yourself diablerizing Lodin's waifu after you force her to suck your dick, and then mail it to him and the entire Primogen.

Go full-Anarch on his ass.

>>48593242
>>Is it sexual intercourse without consent if they can't give consent?

If she didn't want it, wouldn't she have Dominated my line going back to the Second City into abstaining from the act? Wouldn't she Astrally Project and command me to cease and desist? Wouldn't she summon her bloodline even unto the thin-blooded mongrels of these Final Nights to stop me?

>>48594075
>If she didn't want it, wouldn't she kill everyone who was physically capable of doing so preemptively, just in case?

>>48593717
Promethean's coming out tomorrow. Changeling will probably be out by the end of the year, most of it seems done.

>>48594133
In fairness, if she has the power to A) See the future, and B) Kill everyone, then yeah, that's definitely implied consent.

>>48587376
Yes, Congrats, anon

>>48594185
Where's A) coming from? Anyone technically could, so leaving anyone alive would be consent under that schema.

That logic is why we're still plagued by social justice locusts. Just drop it and accept that there is no implied consent.

>>48594044

>>48593441
>Also I'm gay so no thanks

>>48594234
>Where's A) coming from?

Pretty sure the Low Generation Blood Goddess from a bygone era could see the future, m8.

No Thin Blood trash could ever be the object of my affections. I have standards, you know.

>>48594236
Trust me, it'll be worth it for the humiliation alone. Besides, Diablerie is a pretty sexuality-neutral activity.
Just concentrate on all that sweet, sweet Vitae, and pump those temporary dots into your impotent vampire dick.

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What do you think of the Extempore? Aside from the art being shit.

>>48594338

ħajt Ġdida

>>48593989
Modius was a boring old dude in our game, but his childe kept trying to touch my character's flaccid wizard dick. It was very disconcerting.

>>48594323
Fuck you I like the art.
Reeeeee!!

>>48594234
>That logic is why we're still plagued by social justice locusts
This statement is dumb, but it sounds like you're talking about the boogeyman, so >>>/x/

>>48594075
>>48594185
>>48594257
What the fuck are you even talking about. Are you trying to fuck Aliyaah or something?
Stop that.

>>48594323
The art is good, though. Just completely at odds with the write up. It's all magical and exciting and "holy fuck, I can lightning? Sweet!" when the write up is all "you're alone and lonely and no one knows what to do with you and you might actually be fucked so who knows".

>>48594446
>The art is good, though.
As usual your judgment is shit.

>>48594455
My judgement is great, you've just got bad taste. What's wrong with it?

Other than, obviously, looking like the penultimate splash page in a hero origin story instead of the sad lonely Promethean weirdo.

>>48594639
>>48594455

Ladies, ladies. Your tastes are BOTH garbage.