Warmachine and Hordes General

Starting Week 3 of our JML Monday - gonna be a hoot adding 15 more points!

>>48414369
you can actually put a heavy in with that many points!

as opposed to forcing trollbloods players to put in another light lol

Khador master of the JML

New OP bookdump: textuploader <dot> com / 5e4p5

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>>48414369
>LGS just started handing out preorders today
Guess I'll be sitting around painting for a couple weeks more.

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Bethayne list
C&C wanted

Like the aesthetics of trolls but dont want to spend 50% of points on support units and would actually like to use beasts.
How viable are they nowadays? Which warlocks are of use?

>>48415053
check again in december

>>48414492
The Into the Storm pdf seems to be bad.

>>48415071
Huh? Why december?

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>>48415601
their tier list will be in their army book, rumored to be released in december.

they will look like pic related

>>48415634
So you think tier lists might change the overall balance? Okay then.

>>48415664

honestly all the theme lists out so far have pretty big impact. you can get 16+ free points with Kingmaker, which is about as bad as theme forces that gave discounts got in mk2...

On top of that you have some decent bonuses. enemy is a ranged / magic assassin? okay, come my beloved jack, headbutt me!

not to mention damiano is now the best trencher caster in the game...

the Ceph one offers discounts and great bonuses like battlegroup wide hyper aggressive.

Theme forces are going to be huge in mk3, it just takes a few bad apples that are stronger than the devs intended (BECAUSE THIS HASN'T EVER HAPPENED BEFORE) and boom, balance is fucked up.

>>48415501
Sacred Charge too - they are missing a small chunk of the PDF at the start (replaced by null bytes - basically what you'd get if a torrent was stopped before a chunk was finished)

>>48415634
fucking 40k formations ruined that game. Looks like they are going to ruin this one too.

>>48415634
>trenchers with CA in this theme

Advance, dig in, shoot some dudes with CRA's at rng 14 with pMagnus. If they shoot back at you, they need to break DEF17. If they hit you and you tough, they can't shoot you again afterwards.

Fucking ridiculous.

Never managed to play much in Mk2, but I've got a small Cygnar collection. It seems like pNemo will work better with multiple 'jacks now, at the cost of losing a bit of strength on the mono-Jack rush. ATGM UA seems like it took quite the nerf. Charger looks more viable now that he gets to fire both shots base. Would I be correct that an ATGM marshal'ed Charger would get Rune Shot on both shots?

>>48417092
yes.
and cyclone can on 2d3. pity about the colossals being ruled out though.
could grenadier+trenchers for many. dynamo can also.
on a charger is a waste. marshalled jacks don't get power up. so you miss out on powerful shot for both shots. unless you know of a way to dual empower that i haven't found...

does anyone know what PP is selling at GenCon

is it just the new WM upgraded junior casters or also the upgraded hordes junior locks

and will they have stuff from further down the release pipeline like hell mouths, inflictor, etc?

>>48417516
>does anyone know what PP is selling at GenCon
Skorne and Troll Mk3 battleboxes. Thousands of them.

>>48417516
They say in prime cast 34 which ones they sell when.

They're only selling the wm casters at gencon, then only the hordes guys at wmw (or whatever is after gencon)

>>48417036

lol, fucking think about this...

Corbeau with Feign Death


Hmm......

>>48417007
>what is a tier list

>>48414290
Man... if only we had an updated OP that included a list of the published novels and some more stuff for the RPG... Oh wait we do!

http://textuploader<dot>com / 5e4p5

>>48417545
ah i just thought maybe they would also be selling some of the lock n load early release stuff again too

i'll check out that prime cast thx

hmm. thoughts?

Irusk2 +27
-Sylys -4
-Conquest -37
-Juggy -12
Kovnik Joe -4
WGRC (max) -12
-Rocketeer x3 -6
IFP (max) -15
-UA -4
Field Gun -4
Battle Mechaniks (min) -3

I'm not really sure. I had no Juggy, an Artillery Kapitan, and Andy with a Grolar in there instead of the IFP, with another field gun, but felt real short on melee bodies, and nothing to benefit from Battle Lust or Energizer (except Irusk himself). Just felt like I didn't have an army for all the tech. But now it feels just very...spread out to take advantage of all the tech.

idk Irusk gives bonuses to such a varied amount of types...do y'all like to have a target for every buff in your army or do you sometimes say things like "i got nothing for Battle Lust, and that's NBD because the list has crazy shooting and melee jacks" or something?

What's the next unit to pickup for trolls after picking up the battlegroup? I've been reading a lot of conflicting info

>>48418011
krielstone

>>48418047
with ua?

>>48418090
yep

trying to think of any unit anywhere that you would not want the UA for...and failing

>>48418156

Kriel Warriors

>>48417776
I think all that stuff has hit general release now, although the stocks are so low it might seem like they're not out yet. We're at 2 BBs a week at my store.

>>48417997
I'd try to build a list that maximizes your caster's tool box, yeah. In terms of strong lists and powerful casters, those with the deepest toolbox and the best way to leverage it generally perform the best. Irusk is a great caster.

There's one thing that I think should be said: fire for effect can be accomplished by anyone and a behemoth, basically. Because of that, I wouldn't look for reasons to use it. It might just not be that great because the behemoth exists, and that's okay

>>48418190
i meant like hell mouths and stuff slated for august or later

>>48418156
wasn't there a skorne unit that didn't want its ua because it gave out spell ward, or did that get fixed?

>>48418280
Mk2 Cetrati. They're good now though. Still stupidly expensive at 26 with UA and 33 with an Agonizer.

>>48418234
I wouldn't use it on the Behemoth honestly. gets the same effect to all its shots for 1 more focus.

now that i think about it that is a dumb reason

i just like the behemoth with Andy.

i'd rather just put the upkeep on Conquest and use its focus to boost secondary gunshots if i'm not making templates.

>>48418165
Why is that

>>48415501
>>48416958
I haven't read Into the Storm yet so I'll look into that but I have read Sacred Charge and there were no issues with the pdf before I uploaded it.

>>48418515
Oh yeah that's what I meant. I should have been more clear.

You can cast fire for effect and pay 1 to upkeep it, or you can just assign him one more focus and get the same thing. I think we're in violent agreement.

I was thinking about taking a destroyer with fire for effect just to have 3 fully boosted bombards, but I'm not sure that's actually good, or in the "just because you can doesn't mean you should category."

How big is Immoren?

>>48419146
You could always put it on a decimator for 2 fully boosted shoots (costing 4 focus)

>>48419146
Just put FFE on a Mortar.

>>48415053
If you're spending that much on support, you fucked up.

With everyone else's fury management in the shitter and welps unchanged, trolls have some pretty good fury management now.

Have look at Doomie2 or 3. Take a stone an welps and maybe a runebearer and the rest in beasts.

If you can stomach the some fire eaters and some more support, check out the Ragnor list thats been floating around


>>48418522
Kriels are shit, but they're cheap shit that can get really high arm and tie up a heavies. You don't want to spend more points on fodder thats intended to die.

Also there UA gives them rise, and fuck that. They'll be dead 9/10 before they can use it.

Their attachment lost a lot that made it interesting, no more bowling or pGrissel shenanigans.

So just enjoy the 10 arm 19 bodies at 11 points.

>>48419240
about 4 Us

>>48419146
>>48419312
not a fan of conquest with irusk2?

>>48419514
Energizer is pretty cool as a clutch assassination move.

>>48419835
I don't think you can move Conquest with Energizer.

>>48419835
>>48419864
you can't. gargossals can't move outside of their normal movement, except for the archangel's specific use of deceptively mobile (which is basically reposition-for-this-garg-only).

believe me i got super disappointed when i realized i couldn't use overrun to give a superiority'd victor 19" of free-charging threat on feat turn

Should I assemble a Grolar or a Kodiak? They both seem cool but I can't decide.

>>48420565
Magnetize.

Okay so I just tried a game with Naaresh and it went fucking awfully. To maximize the feat I brought lots of cyclops which seemed to make sense to me. The problem I had was that it was FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE TO ACTUALLY HIT ANYTHING BECAUSE CYCLOPS THAT CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE ARE ONLY MAT6 AND FUTURE SIGHT IS FUCKING AWFUL

So I had to keep Naaresh up front to get use out of Lamentation and he got assassinated. I didn't kill anything on feat turn. My god the Cyclops Savage is a fucking awful beast. I'd rather spend 4 points on Maximus and bring something else along. Maximum honestly looks better than a Savage to me. Only gets 1 attack compared to the 2 that a Savage useless gets, but gets an extra d6 on damage, has tough, spell ward, and higher armour. And berserk makes up for it anyway.

My god the minion solos I can bring utterly annihilate my own faction shit on value. I'm considering playing minions with a Skorne warlock at this point. The Paingiver Taskmaster only costs 3 points and makes minion units retarded. Gives them tough, steady, and +2STR all at the same time. Fuck this faction man.

>>48419864
That's why you don't play conquest

>>48420768
Someone looked at Naaresh's feat and thought: "This means I should bring as many mediocre light warbeasts as possible."

>>48420856
Skorne heavy beasts don't need +3STR to kill something, and if I wanted a defensive feat I'd be playing Morghoul1. Hell Morghoul1 gives +2STR and +2SPD which is probably as good as what Naaresh's feat does. The only other place I can see a use for Naaresh's feat is the Reptile Hound (you get 1 card (and thus damage spiral) per 2 models), but for that you may as well just bring Zaadesh and give them Tag Team. Like damn son, what a fucking awful warlock Naaresh truly is. A bag full of mediocre spells, a pointless feat, and meme-tier abilities.

>>48420778
energizer alone seems like a shitty reason not to do that. though again his list does want combined arms to take advantage of all his spell tech.

I think WGRC and some flavor of Iron Fang are required, maybe MoW STs instead.

>>48420768
i'd love to see a Skorne take on Sorscha's 18

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>>48421099

>>48421244
Honestly with the cannoneer buff and sorscha no longer being able to take that many snipers, I think skorne might have ok game.

>>48421699
I think the Cannoneer is going to be a huge player in Skorne moving forwards. It's basically the same gun as a 5pt artillery piece, except it can boost the hit/damage, is far more mobile, can actually take a smack, and has serious game in melee. Mad props to that animus when you bring her with Mordikaar because his gun at 14" is pretty scary.

(Xekaar 1) Beast Master Xekaar [+31]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Cyclops Shaman [8]
- Agonizer [7]
- Aptimus Marketh [6]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [20]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Farrow Brigands (max) [15]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Maximus [4]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Task Master [3]

>>48419312
Oh dur didn't realize it wasn't BG only

>>48417007
funny thing is, 40k formations were a response to warmahorde tier lists.

>>48422019
>[citation needed]

>>48422019
I could actually see that. When the DA special terminator unit came, they were basically a warmachine unit. Complete with defensive line and mini feat. They'd have started generating the formation ideas around the same time.

Difference is, PP doesn't box the rules exclusively with 500$ "bundles" offering no discount.

>>48422083
Instead they sell you 6 medium base infantry for $55.

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>>48419318

ARM 15 anon. Chances of every Kriel Warrior being under stone AND engaged with Spd 5 is pretty low.

They'll just be shot to death.


I held off my feelings on this edition until I got 50+ games under my belt. But I'm afraid it's true:

This edition is shit for balance and rules

They've fucked this up so bad, then retreat to #DesignSpace when challenged. I'm the saddest I've been about the game in a long time.

On to Guild Ball I guess.

>>48415634

>Madelyn Corbeau

Ok, it's not even funny now. She puts the "mercenary" in mercenary latina hooker.

>ok, it's hilarious

>>48420768
>>48420923

>m-muh Naaresh list with cylcops spam is so bad, Skorne is so bad r-right guys?

Well rused, fag.

>>48423767
It's more despair in that despite being made 20% cheaper, our light beatstick is still a completely useless pile of shit. The Brute is fine, the Shaman has its niche, but damn son the Savage and the Raider holy shit what were PP smoking?

>>48423805

So? Every faction has options that are just bad and shouldn't be taken. Raider is just an unfortunate side effect of PP being clueless as to why people took Raiders to begin with, while also making the Cannoneer a superior option for only 8 more points.

Really though, you're an idiot if you think Naaresh light spam would have worked. It didn't work in Mk2 and there's nothing in Mk3 that would have changed that... except for Condition and Enrage getting nerfed, which should have been your first fucking clue.

>>48423862
>there's nothing in Mk3 that would have changed that
Cyclops got cheaper.

>Enrage getting nerfed
Enrage was sidegraded. Or do you think throws aren't insanely powerful? Any beast that's had its spirit blown away is VERY susceptible to being knocked down, and it just so happens that our two best heavy hitters (Gladiator and Bronzeback) are excellent throwers. There's also situations where you need to face two different models on opposite sides, and the forced charge wouldn't let you do it.

>>48420634
>>48420565
this. I did it, it's piss easy.

>>48423397
What guild?

Mort player here

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>>48422585
Your right, GW are totally better at pricing infantry sets...
5 terminators, $50
5 stormcast eternals (basic infantry), $50
5 wraithguard, $50
3 Ogryn, $47
3 Tyranid Warriors, $51
3 meganobs, $63
3 Tau battle suits, $75

Gee Willikers look at all dem cheap medium infantry models.

>>48424023
>Cyclops got cheaper.

You do know that the Mk2 to Mk3 point translation isn't really twice the old point value right? Most point costs are pretty deceptive and if a model "stayed the same point cost" it actually became a little more expensive if the point cost was simply doubled.

>Or do you think throws aren't insanely powerful

I think they are in the 5% of the games where they are more useful than straight up charging, but not enough to make up for the fact that my warbeasts will have to pay for their charges, which they do far more often than any other power attack. There's no way Enrage was a "sidegrade", it was a flat out nerf with a very thin silver lining.

>>48424600
Yeah, I know that points were only just a little under doubled, but 20% off still works out at cheaper.

And charges are far weaker now that everyone can just premeasure their shit. I know your threat range, you know mine, we'll probably approach each other near or through a forest or some shit. There's no excuse for an enemy heavy being able to charge and alpha one of your heavies now.

>>48424709

>what are scenarios
>what are guns

You can't just toe out of charge threat ranges forever. Everyone has to walk into charge threats for some reason or another. Either way, still makes them way more useful than fucking throws that's for sure.

>>48424851
Yeah, with ret most enemy jacks have the choice of "get shot and chipped at slowly" or "walk/run into my charge threat range"

Unless I am Fighting Sloan. Fuck her.

>>48426267
ret is probably the grossest faction right now. it has ample ways of killing sloan.

>>48426415
Of which I don't really own most of right now. What kills Sloan? Ossyan list?

>>48426447
Run a block of ARM-buffed Sentinels at her face while the rest of your list yanks screeners out of the way?

>>48426447
I'm pretty sure what kills Sloan is a shit load of dudes who are fast enough to engage her by turn 2 and not die on the way. I don't know why a defender would care about a free strike, but a Cygnar light might.

>>48427128
Then said dudespam list eats shit against Madrak 2, ugh

>>48427138
Well, that's why you play two+ -list tournaments, you pavement ape. You got your shooty list to fuck most matches, and your choppy list to cover what your shooty doesn't.

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Any thoughts about Tanith?

>>48428949
Only thing I'm not so sure on is the Bone Grinders for that list, since you already have a gallows grove. Maybe replace it with Shifting Stones and a second grove?

>>48428949
I would drop the bone grinders and one stalker down to a pureblood, then take a wild argus for feat bark slamming madness.

>>48429025
Thats actually how I had the list origionaly, wich is probably better. I thought the bone grinders could be interesting for craft talisman wich would give me extra arcing range

I'm not sure who I want to pair her with. I'm leaning towards kruegar2

>>48429138
Reread craft talisman. It specifies that the caster of the spells has to be the point of origin, which prevents getting the extra range while arcing. Krueger2 is a soild choice, but I've been liking Krueger1 for the limited time I've been messing with him for anti-gunline defense skew. Defense 17 beasts and a defense 20 warnoun really make them work for it.

>>48429190
toss in WE&SJ to really lose friends

>>48429190
Well shit.

>>48429057
id drop a stalker for wrong eye, not really sold on the pureblood

Finally i made the switch to Cygnar from Khador.

ALL HAIL THE KING.

Quick question guise;
If you could modify Mk3, what would you do?

>>48430231
It's still way to early to think about that in any real terms.

I mean, some shit looks fucked, but plenty of shit has looked fucked and turned into smoke after people actually used it for six months.

>>48430270
What about the way that some things were shit, and became must haves, whilst other things that were OP stayed OP
and some things were crap could have really done with some help; and are still complete shit that no one would ever use?

Not to mention that some things are totally redundant because other things do the same thing better and often cheaper?

>>48430448
Again, far too early to judge accurately. I'm more than willing to admit that something like the Rhinodon is shit, sure, but straight up judging what's overpowered or not at this point is kind of folly, I think. We don't have a meta to judge anything by, really, or make any calls on how powerful it feels.

It's far too easy to label stuff OP or shit just by looking at the stats instead of playing the game.

Question, the Cygnar Card list in OP's post are they the most up to date versions of the cards? Only asking cause they say leaked rather than deck.

>>48431332
Leaks turned out to be honest.

Errata exists, mostly just fixes, not changes.

So no. Not most up to date. But you aren't in a position to complain now are you?
same boat as me

>>48431365
Oh no I'm fine with that, I can keep up with the Errata on my own, I just needed the cards is all.

>>48424851
Throws are there for when shit's already gone down, not as a replacement for charges. You have heavies A amd B, your opponent has heavies X and Y. A is engaged with X, B is engaged with Y. A activates and throws X at Y, dealing STR+3d6 to both and knocking them down. B proceeds to stand where he can reach both with melee attacks and punch both of them to death with his guaranteed hits. And as mentioned earlier, knockdown effects are insane against beasts who've lost their spirit since you can't force them to stand up in your control phase. If it shakes movement, it won't be able to reach you with attacks. If it shakes action, it can't make any attacks.

>>48431636
3d6 on the thrown model, but only 2d6 on the contacted model. Still good.

>>48431700
Not to mention it squashes anything it lands on.

>>48431365
>>48431390

Speaking of Errata, PP said they'll be uploading updated versions of the errata'd cards for free download at some point in the future.

Played Khador a few years ago, thinking of getting back into the game with Menoth now. I assume the staples are still where they go (Choir, Vassals etc) but are there any huge changes to Menoth I should know before I start buying things?

>>48433697
Vassals are not as important as they used to be but still good. Avoid Errants, which used to be amazing but are now mediocre. Focus even more on jacks. Both Sevs, Thyra, Reznik2, Kreoss1 are early winners in terms of meta and strength, but that may of course change as people understand the game better.

>>48433844
What changed with errants? I know they dropped pretty much all heavy infantry to 5 boxes (except khador's "light warjacks") but did they take away special abilities or what?

>>48433949
They lost Pathfinder

>>48433949
and Imunity to enemy spells

>>48433949
lost Quick Work
Purity became once per game
gained Assault
lost pathfinder

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How worthwhile would a faction deck right now, given that there's already errata putting them out of date? I don't have a smart device so War Room is off the table for me.

Have they mentioned anything about replacing outdated cards without buying an entirely new deck? If not I may just grab one and refine my whiteout + fine point marker writing skills.

>>48430231
>If you could modify Mk3, what would you do?
I'd really just balance a few models. Like maybe 200.

>>48437173
If you want to play the game and you can't use War Room, you have to have the cards.

As for the errata, the vast majority of cards have not been errata'd, so that's not really an issue. The cards that have been errata'd in this first errata are going to be available for free download sometime in August. After that point, though, they're doing annual deck releases that will have cards in them that incorporate the errata.

>>48437193
So like 5 to 10 models per faction and Skorne?

>>48437238
Uh. Yeah, pretty much that.

>>48433949
errants never had 5 boxes.

you're thinking exemplar bastions

>>48430231
I would redo steamroller more than anything. The current scenarios are no good at all.

>>48437305
There are only 2 terrible scenarios.

I wish they would make the objectives more dynamic and interesting though

>>48429835
at this point you're just trading S-tier faction for S-tier faction

it's not like you're trading mk2 cygnar for mk2 khador which would have been a sign of fortitude

>>48430231
re-evaluate a lot of the changes holistically in a way that doesn't appear to be beating certain factions over the head needlessly, because that's how it came across

make sure every faction had some of the same base tech, like getting rid of disruption, which some still don't have

try to further rebalance focus vs fury in light of power up and spirit link and animi. this might involve reducing beast costs a little.

it's hard to talk about specifics because changing model X in faction A has ripples throughout the entire game. nothing is in a vacuum.

>>48437428
It's the whole thing. Destruction being gone is a huge boost to gunlines. Less than half have killbox and only 2 scenarios use rectangular zones while flags are everywhere. It's not a good distribution of scenario for providing even matchups

Does anyone like Assault Kommandoes yet? Even with Strakhov? Even with Victor to clear them? They just seem expensive and weak for what they do. Flamethrowers having Gunfighter and not Assault makes them really hard to position properly in an advancing line (and you can't be second-rank, charge your buddies and spray through them)

I guess Strakhov depends on feating early...13.5" isn't terrible, but RAT/MAT 7 and POW 11 is uninspiring

Why are MoW Demo Corps so shit?

>>48437597
strak's feat is an alpha feat, not a dig in or assassinate feat. unless you see an assassinate opening ofc

>>48437655
they're not shit so much as just pretty straightforward and do nothing special anymore. their mk2 version options were pretty op, like COC weapon options turned up to 11. slowness aside.

>Playing Mordikaar vs Kreoss3
>I half commit and pop feat for +3DEF and Poltergeist
>He has a spell that just slams a heavy into a heavy and negates the entire fucking feat because I just lost two heavies
Like man, Mordikaar's feat is so much worse now that Titans and Cetrati lost base DEF. In general he just feels weak now since small based infantry aren't as good when that's what you want to Essence Spray with. And sure you can Revive Cetrati for muchos valuos, but that's ALL you can do.

I've been trying to look on the bright side of Skorne all this time but it's getting real hard. The only heavies I'm comfortable bringing now are Gladiators with a single Cannoneer and MAYBE a Bronzeback. Everything else is overcosted to fuck or flat out weak. Also the only good animus in Skorne is the Gladiator's Rush. The Cannoneer doesn't have an animus, it just has a 16" gun. The Krea's animus doesn't cut it anymore, the Bronzeback's animus isn't abusable, all Cyclops have shit animii. Fuck support in this faction I'm just going to bring another fucking Gladiator I'm tired of this shit.

>>48437763
"beasts cost more than jacks in part bc they have animi" said with a straight face as they gut animi

Nub question, my Carnivean has assault, this means that whilst it is moving I can make its SP attack AND its normal melee attacks after the movement right? Or is it just a ranged attack whilst moving the charge distance?

>>48437954
The former.

what is drago good for

other than a superiority caster and then exploding

man fuck unstable it's so frustrating

>>48437882
So I'm just only gonna take the beasts with an animus worth caring about, ie. Gladiator and Cannoneer. GLHF my Morg1 list now contains 3 Gladiators, one of which is with Zaadesh so I can safely vomit out 4 Rushes a turn, thanks PP.

>>48437954
you can make your melee attacks only if you end your charge in melee of your charge target before making the assault shot. otherwise you fail the charge.

you can make the assault shot even if you fail the charge, but then your activation ends.

>>48414290
Newbie help?
Bought an unpainted Cryx army.

1) I've never seen any army in store painted anything other than their "official" colors. Should I just buy one of the faction color sets and go for it?

2) How much will painted affect resale, if I decide to sell as well? I'm not completely incompetent at painting, I did lots of reaper minis for fun.

>>48438056
>one of faction color sets
*THE color set specifically for my faction
sorry

>>48438056
good painting can get you above MSRP or above if you resell.

imo people don't care about official colors or not. if it looks good, they buy. if it's weird but well done they buy. if it's cool but painted like shit, it won't sell.

>>48437763
A def 15 titan still gets hit on just an 8 from Kreoss3. Did you really think that would save you?

>>48438021
So I have to move into my melee range and THEN make the assault shot, then make my normal attacks? Sorry my reading comprehension isnt great.

>>48438056
Painted is worth less than bare or primer. But ymmv.

>>48438099
>>48438056
I'll probably stick with the vanilla color scheme just to be safe.

Last question:
How are Cryx right now in meta, and why would somebody sell them

>>48438128
Damn. The guy I bought these from probably left them unpainted for a reason

>>48438119
"a model with assault can make one ranged attack as part of a charge during its activation. the ranged attack must occur after the model ends its movement but before it begins its combat action and must target the model charged...if the target is not in the charging model's melee range after endings its movement, the charge fails, but the model with assault can still make the assault ranged attack before its activation ends"

1. declare charge target
2. move per charge rules (up to SPD +3 toward, must move as far as possible to get in melee range, then turn to be directly facing)
3. make assault shot
4. make initial melee attacks if you ended your movement within melee range of the charge target

how is this hard? this is not remotely the most confusingly worded thing in the rule set.

>>48438128
if it's really well painted, you can turn a profit. it's just not easy and requires really good painting.

>>48438158
cryx are in the middle. they were at the top in mk2 and had a very long way to fall. two of the best casters (denny2 and gaspy2) are pretty much gutted. but shade3, denny1 and gaspy3 are still power casters, venethrax and scavrous are two of the best now.

the biggest hits were really to infantry. a lot of changed roles, and banes just suck even more than they used to

>>48438208
>>48438128
Eh, is it too much to ask for a benchmark example?
The only terms I know are:
"Table-top ready" which is pretty shit
and "Golden Demon" which is the logical ceiling

I assume the grey area inbetween contains some point at which they're worth more painted than unpainted.

>>48438158
They are fine. They are being sold off because 2 of the best casters are trash now and everyone else's toys are shiney

>>48438258
eh i'd say aim for golden demon or really cool conversions if your plan is to sell

if you want to play them but think you may need to sell in the future and don't care about painting, maybe don't paint them.

if selling at max price is important to you in the future, then consider your skills

if you just want to play with a painted army then by all means paint, but don't do this looking for the exit door in mind

it's really subjective after all.

>>48437763
(Morghoul 1) Master Tormentor Morghoul [+30]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
Extoller Soulward [3]

(Xerxis 1) Tyrant Xerxis [+28]
- Tiberion [22]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Agonizer [7]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [20]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]

WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW? OH SORRY, I COULDN'T SEE HIM THROUGH ALL THESE ELEPHANTS AND 13/24 CETRATI WITH SACRED WARD, TOUGH, AND STEADY

SALTIEST LIST BUILDING I'VE EVER DONE BECAUSE HOLY SHIT I'M SICK OF BRINGING WEAK SUPPORT SO I JUST WON'T BRING ANY AT ALL

>>48438497
Cant really say I like your pMorg, but the Xerxis seems interesting. Played him into Ossyan or Kara/Haley yet?

>>48438497
>SALTIEST LIST BUILDING I'VE EVER DONE BECAUSE HOLY SHIT I'M SICK OF BRINGING WEAK SUPPORT SO I JUST WON'T BRING ANY AT ALL
>brings paingivers, extoller, zaadesh, swamp gobber, gremlins and a will breaker
Ebin simply ebin

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>>48439040
Gremlins are support?

So, went 3-0 in my local start of JM League battlegroup tourney. When people said the Khador starter was strong, they weren't kidding. I didn't lose a single model in any of my games.

I was really surprised how good the Decimator was. I wasn't expecting much from a RAT 4 non-AoE gun, but after it shot a pair of gun bunnies to death, I saw the error of my ways.

>>48438497
What are the gremlins for?

>>48439040
>Beast Handlers
Nigger they're not support, they're a beast attachment.
>Extoller
Has a fucktardedly powerful gun for 3pts. Everyone's bringing heavies and this thing shoots them for 18+3d6. FOR 3 FUCKING POINTS.
>Zaadesh
Literally only there so I can cast Rush 4 times with no problems. And he can give his Gladiator +2MAT and +2DMG on all 7 initials if something really needs to die.
>Swamp Gobbers
Sure but what else are you doing with your last 2 points?
>Gremlins
Nigger this isn't support this is how you FUCK UP warjacks. If he ain't got access to magical weapons he's LITERALLY boned. Even if he does I can play around it.
>Willbreaker
Sure but tough is the last piece of the Cetrati puzzle.

One list has 6 points of support. The other has 7 in the Agonizer. That's basically nothing.

>>48439392
They're a warjack's worst nightmare. Seriously. They got no use in Mk2 because no one brought enough jacks for them to be worth it, but now that jackspam is everywhere, I can see people jamming FA2 into any list they plan on using against Warmachine factions.

So any pics/art of the epic journeymen?

>>48437763

I'll stick up for the Brute animus, anon. It's good. Still an animus (and a selfie at that), but decent warlock survival tech within that limitation.

>>48439473
>Extoller
>Has a fucktardedly powerful gun for 3pts. Everyone's bringing heavies and this thing shoots them for 18+3d6. FOR 3 FUCKING POINTS.

Be honest, anon. She's there to hold the Canonner's off-hand tenderly while it shoots a stealth-solo. We don't need help against hordes.

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>>48439592

>>48440024
With the buff to the Cannoneer's AOE, rolling a 1 or 2 on distance will still kill a stealth solo without magic eyes.

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Started WMH with Ret recently, and I'd like to start trying casters that aren't Vyros1. How does this list look for playing around with ranged shoot-and-scoot tricks?

Retribution Army - 75 / 75 points
(Kaelyssa 1) Kaelyssa, the Night's Whisper [+29]
- Discordia [18]
- Banshee [18]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Dawnguard Sentinels (max) [18]
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard [4]
- Soulless Escort (1) [1]
Mage Hunter Strike Force (max) [16]
- Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander [6]
Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir [4]
- Hydra [15]

>>48434045

Honestly, this was the one change that made the UA loose value for me. Loosing Pathfinder sucks but they can get pathfinder from other sources. The constant magic immunity being gone sucks.

Really though, I am thinking that running them minus the UA and instead taking the Errant Scenechal would be a better choice. Giving the unit Unyeilding with Defneders Ward casters is a better use of 4 points than the single turn magic immunity. Assault seems kind of pointless. Really, Quick Work almost never seemed to do anything anyway. Assault is actually better IMO but I don't know why you would take Errants for Assault when you can take Idrians.

>>48440131
You need 2 units of Dawnstar Invictors.

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>>48439592

>>48440218
I hate that they have assault/quick work at all.
Hard to imagine them charging in sword and board and somehow juggling their crossbow in their at the same time

>>48439370
RAT 4 is bad

but then you remember boosting

and that the DEF on jacks is pretty much always shit

>>48440553
>muh verisimilitudes

>>48440131
I'd prefer to replace Eiryss UA with the standard MHSF UA. Cheaper and I like the phantom barrage more than the reposition and I like Eiryss more as a solo.

Putting the Hydra on the Scyir is a bit of a heavy investment for me so I would put a Griffon or Aspis with him. Both are pretty survivable for lights, and Aspis can set up easy hits for the Scyir.

Extra points can go to Eyriss solo and another Mechanik.

But that's my preference.

Farrow Slaughterhousers in Skorne where a Cannoneer can soften anything up before you go in?

>Xekaar gives a 10/19 heavy -2DEF and -2ARM
>Cannoneer slaps it for 3d6-2
>Task Master gives Slaughterhousers +2STR
>They charge in and each get 4d6-4 damage

That's basically going to kill anything. Slaughterhousers seem godlike when you're running a Cannoneer because you can soften anything up from stupid ranges, and Xekaar looks like the single best Minions warlock Skorne has because Mortality and his feat don't refer to faction models. I'm just debating if it's worth bring Marketh for a free Mortality, or if one Mortality is enough. Taking out one key piece is probably good enough. Marketh got nerfed so damn hard.

(Xekaar 1) Beast Master Xekaar [+31]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Cyclops Shaman [8]
- Agonizer [7]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Paingiver Task Master [3]
Paingiver Task Master [3]
Farrow Slaughterhousers [11]
Gatorman Posse (max) [18]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Maximus [4]

This feels good. The Minions infantry will be able to take down just about anything between +2STR and -2ARM/-2DEF. I also like the cute support triangle of Xekaar wants to cast from range, which the Shaman gives him. The Shaman wants to shoot from range, which the Cannoneer gives him. And the Cannoneer wants nothing because it's fucking amazing alone.

>>48441750
The other alternative is running a Sentry instead of the Shaman + Agonizer support package.

>>48441091
So that makes:
(Kaelyssa 1) Kaelyssa, the Night's Whisper [+29]
- Discordia [18]
- Banshee [18]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Dawnguard Sentinels (max) [18]
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard [4]
- Soulless Escort (1) [1]
Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir [4]
- Griffon [8]
Mage Hunter Strike Force (max) [16]
- Mage Hunter Strike Force Commander [4]
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios [7]

I do get the feeling Eyriss1 works better with Refuge since she doesn't have a squad to babysit. And with that build on the MHSF unit, I could swap them for Invictors + UA if I'm really liking the Scyir's aura.

Thanks friend.

>>48417717
Thank you!

>>48414290

>>48417717

http://textuploader<dot>com / 5e4p5


Next Thread please include this new URL!

Anyone painting anything?

>>48440322
What is this? A 'caster for Durants?

>>48447082
Hah!!

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>>48446658
I painted all this over the last two weeks.

>>48447208
Cool! Looking good

>>48447082

You get a cookie for that one.

>>48447208
you picked the wrong faction; but that's good work for two weeks !

>>48440322
So, the model. It's a kind of variation of Kreoss.
How original.
Well at least he doesn't have fabergé egg armor anymore.

I notice he still doesn't have a ranged weapon, so hopefully he'll have some spells to make use of true sight. IF he keeps true sight that is. After all Feora lost Ignite.

>getting a whole cephalyx army in exchange for some commission work
>tfw i enjoy painting a ton so its basically for free
deeeeeheeeecent

>>48440052
Malakov, the khador one. He actually looks cool in that pic. I am eager to know how he grew up from "annoying little self centered cunt" to "cool dude".

Apparently Elara is so fucking amazing.
I'll not hold my breath, Malakus was supposedly an amazing model, but in reality we got a short sighted fat ass.

and aiakos; what is wrong with his mouth? and why so androgenous?

>>48448130
Having done commission painting in the past, I understand that feel. I did the same thing.
However painters need to realise how much their work is worth, because it's a LOT more than "woot free models!"

>>48448177
when i started out doing some minor commission stuff, i undersold myself super hard, but i've since learned and only jew myself if its a friend i'm doing the work for, as is the case now, and the work the guy wants done is less than the worth of the models i'm getting so i cant complain

>>48444256
Just dl'd the iron kingdoms book link (under the blood island heading)
it's fucking amazing. All the novellas seem to be there !

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>>48446658
finished muh nyss hunters the other day.

Just got my new stash of models; need to start building and painting my cryx...
So far I've built Scourge of heresy.

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>>48446658
Getting close with these dudes. Next stop, Unit City.

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>>48448573
And still trying to work out my red/gold Houseguard and/or Thyron scheme on the side.

So I don't suppose anyone has card scans yet? I bought a Cygnar card pack but I really don't want to buy the Merc pack to go with it. I don't really have the cash right now, but I can't play without it.

>>48449545
Find someone who bought the Merc pack and buy the singles you need from them.

What would a farrow gargantuan be like?Gators would clearly get a dracodile.
In the same vein,does anyone know when the third wave garg expansion will be released?

>>48449632
>buy the singles you need from them.
Almost everyone buys the same mercs, thus there is huge overlap.

>>48449545
Look for the leaked cards and print them.

>>48440093

You know a deviation of 2" on a 3" aoe always hits a small based model mathematically anyway right?

It can be hard to perfectly measure that with a tape measure, but i assure you, 2" on distance on a 3" aoe will clip the edge of their base

Picked up the Khador battlebox. What should I grab next?

>>48450761
Winter Guard Rifle Corps and a Grolar/ Kodiak dual kit.

Did MK3 kill this game?

>>48451949
From the looks of things, it killed it for the autistic "WAAC" tourneyfags.

Time will tell if newer players will pick it up or if the tourneyfags will find the game more entertaining than before.

>>48452145
I sure wish it killed the idiots who have no idea what "autistic" or "WAAC" mean.

>>48450840
Between the Grolar and the Kodiak which do you think is better? I want to try magnetizing it but it's nice to know which option I should be looking more closely at.

Also, never magnetized a piece before.

I got my 2 Gremlin Swarms and pHexeris today. Gonna have FUN.

>>48451949
At my LGS people are playing more than ever before. Premeasuring lets everyone know where shit's at instead of making educated guesses and losing because of asinine millimeter based bullshit. It feels much better honestly. And power attacks are a lot easier and more powerful. Throws are just a MAT roll, a STR check, then a MAT roll on the target followed by STR+2d6 on the affected models, with an extra dice on the thrown model if it hits something the same size or bigger.

>>48424523

Don't kid yourself, we all know box by box, privateer press is more expensive for less quality. We are the cheaper alternative due to the fact that we play with less models, and that each and every model counts towards the fight! Thats our ace up our sleeves when discussing price tags, not "nuhu... look at this price right here!" trying to sound smart by cherrypicking.

>>48451949

At my LGS it's been picking up a lot of new players, but me and my mates have mixed opinions.

>>48453018

We can dream.

>>48451949
As a troll player it killed a lot of my enjoyment. Seeing 80% of our infantry get neutered was not fun. It didn't kill the game as a whole, though.

>>48454532
>Seeing 80% of our infantry get neutered was not fun
As a Skorne player, fuck you. At least you HAD infantry.

>>48454532
The only unit that really truly sucks now is Kriel Warriors. Even then I bet you could figure something out.

Git gud scrublord

Is Kaelyssa the best all comer caster for Ret?

Also how to deal with Menoth with Rahn? Just use Helyn or Kae?

>>48454656
What issues does Menoth bring to the table against Ret? I've never played against them.

>>48454726
For a Rahn list it'd be the whole "my battle group and possibly several units are immune to magic"

>>48454726
They set everything on fire and have amazing casters.

>>48454638
>The only unit that really truly sucks now is Kriel Warriors.
Bushwackers still aren't that great and haven't been for over a decade now.

Sons of Bragg are nearly useless.

Champions can barely survive getting up field and even then SPD 5 RNG 1 ensures they will have some trouble getting to important targets.

Sluggers took one step forward with d3 shots and two steps back by losing their health bars.

Burrowers are only good as meat shields and NOTHING more.

Fennblades and Scattergunners die in droves before they get to do anything thanks to DEF 12, ARM 14 and the new gunline meta.

The Thumper and Pummler crews have no reason to exist.

Scouts are still overcosted and die to a stiff breeze without putting the hurt on anything or really tying anything up.

We lost WAY more than just Kriel Warriors. The only non-support units worth anything are Runeshapers, Long Riders, Warders, Fire Eaters and arguably Highwaymen. Everything else either got worse or stayed bad.

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>>48454892
Yeah, pretty sure you're just bad or stupid. Likely both.

Some of these units either haven't changed or were already bad. You can't lose something you never had. The only thing you really lost was Burrowers, which sucks but oh well. Move on and play other stuff

That said, a bunch of these are really good assuming you're not just running head long into guns like a moron.

For example

Champs are Def 14 in melee. Run them with Calandra and cast Star Crossed every turn. Or take Grissel2 if you like her

Sons of Bragg are 8 wound weapon masters and murder everything. Consider Madrak2 and apply directly to whatever the fuck needs to die

Fenns and Scatterguners have always been bad if you are just running at guns like an idiot. Take a Chronicler and give them concealment. You also have pathfinder on a stick, use it and put your dudes in terrain. Rubble is a thing

Thumpers slam dudes around. This is good

Scouts, Bushwackers, Highwaymen, and Sluggers have always been bad. Deal with it. It's not like you're actually losing anything of value here.

>>48454892
Real question, fampai, what casters are you playing?

>>48454892
Do what I'm doing as Skorne and just force the things that stayed good to work while accentuating the power of minions. Find a warlock with spells that work on out of faction shit like Grim2's Mortality, and bring minions. Bring Viktor Pendrake and turn a Gatormen Posse into PS15+4d6 and PS15+3d6 at MAT8 that get to reroll. No heavy can survive that or even close.

>>48455580
>Implying Gatorman would ever touch a heavy before getting shot off the table
>LaughingKaraSloan.jpg

Ret and Khador do it even more trivially

Hey this is a little off topic but I have an RPG question. When building a character with the arcane mechanik career your starting assets include a mechanikal weapon or armor worth 750gc, including housing, accumulator, and runeplate, but the rules for building mechanika dont seem to make the runeplate for this weapon cost more than 10gc.
for example
Military rifle 45gc x10 to make it a housing\
storm chamber 250gc
blank rune plate 10 gc
3 accuracy runes 1 corruption rune (self inscribed) 0gc
total 710gc
This whole question is assuming the arcane mechanik used their inscribe formulae ability to make their weapon.
Am i missing something or is this as good as it reads?

>>48455741
>hurrdurrMUHGUNLINEMUHFUGGAH

>>48455423
> Defends Thumper.
> Thinks Tale of Mists actually matters.
> Thinks Weapon Master and 8 wounds makes Sons worth anything.

I'm guessing you don't actually play Trollbloods.

>>48455508
Trying to get play time in with all of them.

Haven't gotten to Calandra, either Grissel or Ragnor yet.

So far the only locks worth anything are Gunnbjorn and Madrak-2.

>>48455830
It's probably assuming the runeplate is already inscribe, particularly since this would let you get a rune you might not be able to scribe yourself reliably.

Also, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think multiple runes of the same name stack.

Do you think enrage be better if it let you choose between a +2 STR bonus OR a free charge, and would that be balanced?

>>48455423
> Scouts, Bushwackers, Highwaymen, and Sluggers have always been bad. Deal with it. It's not like you're actually losing anything of value here.

Why do we need to deal with it? Why can't PP make them actually worth taking after so long?

Are troll and legion battle boxes good this time around? Have wanted to get into the game for a while and mk3 is a great excuse, but the war beasts in both seem unexciting, really sad no troll heavy or Carnivean were included.

>>48456051
Troll battlebox actually got worse. Easily the worst battlebox out of both Warmachine and Hordes.

Legion's is alright.

Hey all, new fag to /tg/

I'm looking to get into table top and I wasn't sure if I should get into this or 40K.

I love Warhammer lore but I know that shit is retardly expensive and with WH Fantasy dead, I worry that 40K will go the same route.

Is warmachine worth getting into? I saw boxes at my hobby store and it caught my eye but I never heard of it before

>>48455910
The stacking thing is not mentioned anywhere i checked.
I just have a hard time beleiving that the only base book career with the abilty to inscribe formulae, not just to begin with but EVER, would be walking around flashing someone elses gear particularly since rune formulae are not spells and there are no mechanics for which ones you know

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>new Allison Jakes

>>48456170
True, and I don't think any sane GM would have a problem with you having inscribed your own runes. As for the stacking thing, that might just be me confusing the Warmahordes general rule of no stacking same-name abilities.

>>48453451
This makes me wonder what the fuck you were doing for throws before, since that's the exact process for a two handed throw. Throws without targeting are slightly simpler since there's only one possible direction.

>>48456121
WarmaHordes is a better crafted game. The rules are tighter and once you get used to the meta, it's "fairer" than anything Games Workshop makes.

That being said, GW makes models that are easier to customize overall, if you care about that.

Honestly, I would pick any other game (WarmaHordes, Malifaux, Infinity, Warpath/Kings of War, Flames of War, etc.) over a GW game any day. As the years roll by I just like GW less and less. Every other company seems to be doing a better job from a narrative and game-play standpoint. The only thing GW has going for it anymore are the settings (which they are DESPERATELY trying to destroy) and model quality/customization.

>>48455969
Because trolls can into good guns. Take Farrow Brigands if you want good guns on something other than your beasts

>>48455863
Def 14 is alright, Feign Death is great, Def 15 arm 15 (17), 8 wound, Weapon masters are also pretty good too. Don't run them straight into guns like a retard and you'll be fine. Use the terrain on the table and protect your high value stuff with jam units like Fennblades but make sure and buff those jamming units too.

Come on, I know you're retarded but is some pretty basic trollblood shit here.

>>48455892
Brace yourself, Madrak2 nerfs are coming. Get on the Calandra/Ragnor hype train while you can

>>48456494
>Take Farrow Brigands if you want good guns on something other than your beasts

> Taking Brigands outside of Minions for their guns.

Okay, I thought you were being serious for a while, but you are clearly just trolling.

>>48456345
Does Hordes and Warmachine have decent customization? It's not a selling point for me, just curious

Do the games also get as huge as 40K scales where there's just a shit ton of units everywhere?

>>48456579
What, you mean to tell me you don't want rat 9 pow 16 guns in Trolls that dig in, have tough and pathfinder? OK, if you say so

>>48456630
>>48456579
Nyss are also good alternatives. Troll guns suck balls. Take superior Minion options if you want guns that aren't Fire Eaters

>>48456601
No on both fronts, frankly. WMH stays pretty controlled on the game sizes for the most part, mostly due to people realizing the game gets a little out of hand at high point values. And the models don't have different options for what things you can stick on them, so you have to get actually creative when you're converting models.

>>48456630
>rat 9 pow 16 guns
Who are they getting this with?

>>48456601
The models aren't really designed for it, but there's a lot of people who work on customization of their models. The main rules are: 1. It has to be easily identifiable as the model it represents, 2. It has to have like 80% Privateer Press parts, and 3. you can't swap a weapon from one type to another. So you can make a different sword for a warjack with a sword, but you can't give him an axe instead.

>>48456680
You're the amazing Troll player, work it out. It's not particularly hard.

>>48456699
Grim-2 has Mortality and Grissel-1 has Calamity, I'm honestly not seeing any other options.

>>48456735
Ok, there you go. Now take the Brigand Warlord, apply Prey and there you go. Pow 16 guns. Apply them to the correct targets and theyre awesome.

Better than Troll guns anyway that aren't Fire Eaters

>>48456784
No AD and only gets those bonuses against a single unit or model. Not that hard to tie them up or just shoot them to death, especially not for 9/15 points or more with the UA.

You don't see many Troll players taking Brigands for a reason.

I want to like Trolls, I really do, but there is just since so many abilities and buffs don't affect minions and our infantry are so mediocre I am just very bummed about them in general.

>>48456824
It's almost like they didn't win a WMW qualifier.

>>48456824
It's OK one less shitty Troll player in the world won't hurt anyone.

And you will see more Brigands as the meta develops. They're one of the best units in hordes and better than any Troll shooting unit that isn't Fire Eaters. AD isn't required to be a good shooting unit, though it certainly helps. Being able to dig in and pathfinder is what's important here.

>>48456889
Shhh, let the little scrub bitch and moan

>>48456889
Which?

>>48456963
Rocky Mountain Rumble

>>48456987
Oh, that. Thought you meant a Troll list with Brigands won a qualifier.

>>48456096
Damn that's really hard to hear, is it still possible to buy and old battle box or are they old models?

>>48457736
they're not producing new ones but tons of places have stock, both online and brick-and-mortar. may not last long though because sales on the old boxes are in full swing

>>48453286

It's not like 40k with purely better options all the time. Some times the kodiak will be better, but more often than not the grolar will be superior. It all depends on your list and the opponent.

how are people building lists for mom these days?

>>48458130
Iron Mother?

I've been running this to some pretty excessive success. The list feels incredible.

Convergence Army - 75 / 75 points

(Directrix 1) Iron Mother Directrix [+27]
- Exponent Servitors
- Monitor [16]
- Monitor [16]
- Prime Axiom [38]
- Diffuser [6]
- Corollary [6]
Optifex Directive [4]
Optifex Directive [4]
Steelsoul Protector [4]
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex [2]
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex [2]
Attunement Servitors [4]

ADR
Cipher 16
Assimilator 16
Mitigator 7

My one debate is dropping the Servitors for another Steelsoul.

I have a problem with Gaymachines and Whores.

Like the game, most of the miniatures, but for some reason the game is a waac magnet, at least locally.

Faction wise half of each faction is love or hate, either I love the troops and hate the jack/beast or love the jack/beast and hate the troops.

For example I love Menoth troops, but their jacks look so derpy. Everblite, love the beast sadly their troops look like aborted babies.

I can't be the only one

>>48448153
Elara2 feels a lot like a Cryx caster
Kinda like a Gaspy1

>>48458631
if everything in the BG is a node why spend points on ADOs

>>48459029
Because her Servitors are no longer nodes, only the warjacks, so she lacks for disposable ones.

Plus, her servitors benefit from her feat now, so keeping them both alive in a decently forward position actually really matters for her assassination or hitting higher def heavies.

>>48457736
The troll battlebox is awful in battlebox games. Chances are you're going to use an Axer and Bouncer in your list pairings. Ragnor, on the other hand, is a really powerful caster and you should absolutely play him.

>>48458878
What's her rules?

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ok guise since mk3 release i've been burrying my head in cryx and now expanding with new jml leauge in my area to khador.

fill me in on the e-dramma ect. what's going on?

also: post your WIP .. (pic is my plate overburdened with stuff)

>>48460128
Madrak 2 is, in fact, ending the world. Irusk 2 stronk. Kara Sloan is a huge asspain but not enough of one to make it to a top table. Jury's out on hordes, turns out they're good but didn't really get any "new shiny " effect as strong as power up; wasnt needed

>>48460211
>Fucking an Irusk2 player so hard he tilts hardcore

The caster is bonkers good though, he's got tools for everything.

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>>48456824
>>48456889
Oh for fuck sake.

There's greater issue in balance just beyond tourney wins. Cryx didn't win every single tournament in mkii but that didn't mean that Cryx was balanced. It just meant that everyone was skewing against it since it was so unbalanced.

Also just because the faction has a top caster doesn't mean that the faction is in any form or shape balanced well. Mkii Cygnar was sucking on Haley 2's tits forever since it was the only way that the faction got anywhere. Cygnar was a shit designed faction and now Trolls are experiencing that now. Madrak 2 killing the world doesn't mean that trolls are fine, if anything it's a sign that the trolls are horribly imbalanced since there's nothing else to offer the player.

>>48460582
The guy who won RMR didn't have Madrak2 in his pairing

>>48460629
I know. It's Jay, I respect him because he does weird shit at times like playing mkii Darius during lock and load masters years back.

>>48460661
Then why is your response "MADRAK2 IS A CRUTCH YOU FUCKERS" when it seems to be clear that Troll players don't need him to win big events?

It's almost like what you said was stupid bullshit, but that can't be true, right?

>>48456051
I am liking my legion battlebox. There are some tough match ups, but the battlebox can catch people by surprise too. Once people in my journeyman league start wising up to my shit, it might be a different story though.

I'm new as fuck and feeling kind of overwhelmed, what are some of your favorite Khador warcasters?

>>48456051
>>48459331

How'd it get worse?

Ragnor is amazing, his feat acutally does something in battlebox games, and getting the bouncer over the 2nd impaler is great.

Not having a a second heavy definitely sucks, and its hard to win against other battle boxes until you know what your doing. Its still a good buy for your moneu

>>48461727

I haven't played in Mk 3 but EButcher because he is a fucking blender.

>>48461735
I think people also forget that his knockdown spell is super powerful in BB games.

>>48462003
BB games?

>>48462003
>>48462173
Just realized its battle box

>>48461735
It's worse mostly because everyone got a better Battle Box and the Impaler is arguably the worst light beast available to Trolls.

Even with his feat, Ragnor's battle group will lose at least one warbeast during a Battle Box game and won't be able to handle much armor themselves.

It's a pretty good value if you just buy it to build an army around later on, but in battle box only games its the worst of the bunch.

Seriously. The ONLY reason the Impaler is 11 points instead of 7 or 8 is to round Ragnor's battlegroup off to 30 points.

>>48462699
>Impaler is arguably the worst light beast available to Trolls.
I keep expecting it to have assault when I fight it. Then it doesn't.

>>48462699
How would you feel about
>Ragnar
>mauler
>swamp troll
>winter troll

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>>48448573
>>48448589

>different colour schemes for different houses

>>48461735
I said Ragnar is great and it's a good buy. Also it's not the worse Battlebox, Legion's is worse. Kryssa is dog shit every turn but feat turn. That said, the troll box really needed a Mauler.

>>48463277
That both looks good and fun. I really wish that were the case.

>>48460712
Because it's the conventional wisdom. It still doesn't justify falling of Jarl, Madrak 1, Grim 1 and such. Internal balance is very important for faction strength and Hordes in general suffers very poorly in that regard.

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>>48464407
>Because it's conventional wisdom
No, you're just parroting bullshit you read.

>Jarl, Madrak 1, Grim 1
Moshar, Grayle, and Baldur existed so Mk II circle was LITERALLY SHIT RIGHT? Please disregard those tournament wins.

>>48464501
>Mk II circle was LITERALLY SHIT RIGHT?
Kinda. It was entirely made by gorax and stalker. The internal balance of the heavies were extremely poor. Bradigus was a patch too strong to make the stones not shit, but Circle had some major design issues.

>>48460712
Isn't Pagani playing trolls?

>>48464618
Pagani plays everything.

Guys I'm starting to come around to Morghoul2 as a caster assassin. The changes to him in Mk3 are:

1. Ghost Walk went to cost 2 from 3, meaning he can now use Flashing Blade 3 times instead of 2 on the assassination run, which is a huge deal
2. His main weapon gained Blessed, once again a huge deal as it means you can't get Jewed out of wins by Defender's Ward or something
3. His main weapon also gained Grievous Wounds, so you can't save yourself from him with transfers
4. His feat drops DEF by 4
5. He gained a point of armour

Now he deals (12+3d6)x3 when he goes to assassinate, which is actually enough to kill most casters on average. Your average 15/15 caster gets hit by anything but snakes, and will take 22.5 damage that they can't transfer. The change to Enrage also means that a Bronzeback gets to throw him 8", then he can walk 9" if you brought a Tyrant Commander. The extra point of armour also makes him more likely to survive the throw.

His only problem is high ARM casters like Butcher or Durst since against 18ARM he'll only deal 13.5 damage.

>>48464640
GW no longer stops transfers.

>>48464640
Oh and I know that Flesh Hooks looks like a shitty generic nuke, but in this game landing the first hit with your heavies is a HUGE deal, and Flesh Hooks stops a beast from using anything which extends the distance it can travel. This means you can push your heavies forwards, and he has to keep walking backwards. I'd definitely bring a Shaman because of this, and maybe even Marketh. But damn son, never use Morg2 against Circle because you're not hitting their beasts reliably.

>>48464770
Really? Then he's unplayable lel.

>>48464782
To go with this idea, however, you can play your spell slave character to cast Ghost Walk on him, which nets you two more flashing blades.

>>48464782
You must be new to Skorne

>>48464640
Flesh Hooks was a shit trade. He use to have Silence of Death ( model/unit gain Grievous Wounds, ukeep) which got buffed in Mk3 (it adds +2 dmg now as well).

>>48464808
Mercy alone got 2 buffs in Mk3.

>>48464820
I'm not so sure. Getting the alpha on heavies is a huge deal in Mk3, and Flesh Hooks lets you do just that.

>>48464820
They wanted a spell fr Marketh to use.

Still, as a gotcha assassination, this is actually kind of hilarious. It's got some pretty serious threat, all things considered(With App, it's 19.5 inches of almost totally non-linear threat, and with throws not scattering, it's very reliable), and it will murder anyone who sits too low on transfers or focus camp.

The question is, can you build a regular list around it that actually does something if your opponent knows what the assassination is?

>>48464407
These casters are all fine. Solid B/C+ casters. There's no such thing as a bad Troll Warlock, just degrees of average and like three broken options

>>48464859
The fact that 3 broken options exist is a problem.

>>48464842
To be honest, Marketh being able to cast Ghost Walk on Morghoul2 is big. If it takes 3 Flashing Blades to assassinate, every fury you have left above 3 is basically countered by your opponent's camped fury. And if you're going on the run with a full 5, it means you can assassinate a warlock with 2 camped fury from 2"+7"+9"+RNG away.

>>48464842
>can you build a regular list around it that actually does something if your opponent knows what the assassination is?
Either they walk into a dumb assassination, or they spend the entire game playing around something you could do at any time. You're taxing their behavious constantly by just being there. The flavour is REAL.

>>48464869
Meh, every faction has broken caster options and have since Mk1. Unless your Skorne, then everything is terrible

>>48464872
Puppet Strings is about the only other thing this list can do to buff the assassination.

You can't even follow up with any shooting, since you'll counter the blind with being in melee with the caster. Which is too bad.

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>>48464893
The problem with trolls is that The caster balance was pretty damn good. Lists only started to get locked because of theme lists not casters. Then they somehow managed to cock that shit up.

They cocked it up by making one of the best casters in the faction even fucking more insane and somehow nerfed casters that weren't even seeing tournament play.

It's just fucking stupid that's what.

Gunnbjorn's the only actually good change they did for Troll caster balance.

>>48464911
You don't really need to follow up with shooting because the Cannoneer has a fuckhuge 22" range on its gun to begin with. Before Morg even goes in just #YOLO a Cannoneer over there and drop a ball on a nigger. I'd probably bring a Shaman too just to extend the range on Flesh Hooks, but the Shaman has a 22" range ghost shot gun too.

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>>48464916
>They cocked it up by making one of the best casters in the faction even fucking more insane and somehow nerfed casters that weren't even seeing tournament play.

>>48464935
You want to use the -4DEF from the feat to make the shooting that much better.

Like, you could bring a Mammoth instead of a BB and throw even farther, but also be able to use the feat to get RAT8-10 shooting if you don't go with feat turn.

Can kill Morg with the follow up damage if roll box cares though

>>48464916
They didn't really nerf any Troll casters. Are you retarded? If anything they either stayed the same or got significantly better.

>>48464943
Soles likes the new Rhinodon, for some fucking reason.

>>48464948
I'd never count on the Cannoneer or Shaman landing their shots, it's just securing the assassination with models I was fielding anyway.

(Morghoul 2) Lord Assassin Morghoul [+29]
- Cyclops Shaman [8]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]
Extoller Soulward [3]

>Elephant herd
Check
>Big range guns
Check
>Something to brawl with small guys or threaten free strikes on big guys
Check

>>48464986
Need Marketh

>>48464997
o fug

Might need to shrink the herd. Shouldn't be the biggest deal with Flesh Hooks though.

>>48464997
And you want a will-breaker for puppetstrings

>>48464950
Madrak 1 is a significant nerf. They called it a feat swap but his feat is less than madrak 2's old feat. Surefoot not being a bubble is also problematic since he's more vulnerable now. Carnage being gone to guided hand also limits his army's output since it doesn't work with the feat. He also has activation issues since he wants to go first for guided handed but feat is better for mopping up.

Doomshaper 3 can no longer goad so his output with beasts is significantly lower. Ragnor stealing half the feat also means that GW eats him alive.

Jarl having his spell list dedicated to Friendly Faction only hurts a lot for taking minions.

Grim's feat no longer actually stops charges. Grim's too unsafe to play at all now.

>>48464997
(Morghoul 2) Lord Assassin Morghoul [+29]
- Aptimus Marketh [6]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Cyclops Shaman [8]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]

The perfect memelist.

>>48465015
Sure Foot being target unit is awesome. So is Guided hand every turn for free. Your dudes are all Def 16 if you take a Chronicler, this is really good

Congrats, Doomy3 is fair now. Good thing trolls have the best shield guards now so the two sources of ranged grievous wounds are less useful.

Anything Jarl would have taken from minions is garbage now. Troll infantry is amazing, play it and win games. He might be one of the worst casters in the faction but he's a ton of fun

Don't put Grim in charge range of debuffed dudes? It's not hard and you should be murdering everything in the feat. Unless you're bad, which is possible. Honestly the worst thing about Grim is that the meta doesn't favor him right now. Doesn't mean he's bad, just not the right tool for the current job.

>>48465076
>Good thing trolls have the best shield guards now

That isn't Convergence

>>48465076
>Sure Foot being target unit is awesome. So is Guided hand every turn for free. Your dudes are all Def 16 if you take a Chronicler, this is really good
Target unit is only worth it if the unit is worth targetting. I'm not gonna beat a dead horse on 10 man unit situation but suffice to say that eligible targets are rare if non-existent.
Guided hand is only free if Madrak risks close range. If Madrak had his old spell list where he protected himself and had carnage where he only needs one cast then I would agree on its merits, but the current Madrak is too unsafe. The surefoot bubble was simultaneously a great self buff and made good usage of Troll's larger than most base sizes. Madrak 1 just has too many things he wish to juggle while having no means for them.

>Congrats, Doomy3 is fair now. Good thing trolls have the best shield guards now so the two sources of ranged grievous wounds are less useful.
Doomy 3 was fair before. He struggled to make dents against enemy defenses since he had no combat buff outside of feat to get any killing done.

>Anything Jarl would have taken from minions is garbage now. Troll infantry is amazing, play it and win games. He might be one of the worst casters in the faction but he's a ton of fun
Fun is irrelevant.
The fact that minions he would take have become garbage means that balance within the minions have also been hit. Troll infantry is mostly garbage. Def 12 is piss poor bad when direct fire guns are everywhere and tough is nerfed. Krielstone has become prohibitively expensive for lists. He was among the worst casters before, there was no reason to restrict his abilities even further.

>>48465076
>Don't put Grim in charge range of debuffed dudes? It's not hard and you should be murdering everything in the feat. Unless you're bad, which is possible. Honestly the worst thing about Grim is that the meta doesn't favor him right now. Doesn't mean he's bad, just not the right tool for the current job.

You fucking idiot. You can't feat without putting yourself in the range of the debuffed guy. That's what a fucking debuff feat does.

>>48465159
>Fun is irrelevant

Welcome to Warmachine folks. Where there is no point and fun doesn't really matter

>>48465159
If your support has become expensive, don't bring it. Just bring more of what's good. Don't support, replace.

Any anon who has NQ67 want to give us some rules on the new casters?

either type it or just a shitty photo of the relevant pages, no need for quality

>>48458794
Why do people complain when they play a game and the other person tries to win that game? honest question.

>>48465589
Does it have them in it? I was under the impression that this NQ had fuck all for interesting content. I'd definitely be more interested if that's the case

>>48465725

because some people are unbearable faggots who would complain about any army you bring unless its a warcaster with focus 0, no spells, and a list filled with FA:U of gobber tinkers.

just play to win and laugh at the faggots

Who has the better gun line, Cygnar or Retribution?

>>48466176
Also which faction normally has fewer models on the field?

>>48466391
The one running jack heavy.

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>>48465364

>>48465076
>>48465166
>Don't put Grim in charge range of debuffed dudes?
> You can't feat without putting yourself in the range of the debuffed guy. That's what a fucking debuff feat does.

Not really true, Anon. Grim's got a control range of 12, and most things in the game are only SPD 5 or 6, meaning they only threat 7" or 8" at most if they get hit with the feat. Even without stopping charges, he can pretty commonly feat on things and they won't be able to reach him.

>>48466176

they both have excellent gunlines. i'd give it to cygnar though just because playing against haley1 or sloan is dreadful for opponents. at least Ossyan pretends to be fair with def 16 weaponmaster against jacks deadeyed MHSF who roll 4 dice on feat for damage.

Temporal Barrier is on a whole other level of NPE to an unprepared opponent

>Seite 10

Got a menoth army from my brother because he said he's fed up with mark 3.
I've never played. He told me there are bastion senechals, errants ua, vassals, wracks, choir, kreoss1, sev1, castigator, crsader, devout reckoner, redeemer, repenter, revenger, sanctifier, vanquiser.

Do I need to buy anything else to play? I'm going to my comic shop tonight to see if anybody plays there but I'm basically at square one. Do I have good pieces or is it junk which is why my brother gave it to me? Thanks.

>>48467664
The bastions took a hit but the rest if that stuff is solid. If you like going nuts Reznik 2 is actually good now

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>Have a group of friends and acquaintances that play warmaching numbering almost a dozen.
>Only person who has all their models painted (And based)
>Person who has the next most painted is at about 30% and we have around the same number of models.
>Last week played a game against someone where half his army was just bases, he hadn't even assembled the models he's had for over a year.
>Only person who seems to have a complete grasp of the rules.
>Everyone else needs reminders that cavalry always get boosted attack rolls on a charge, or that eyeless sight no longer ignores forests.
>And for most of them if it's a reminder that benefits them, they accept it. If it's a reminder that benefits me, they want to look it up.
>Only person who can take a turn sub ten minutes meaning games last three hours or more.
>Been playing for about two years, most have been playing for half a year more than me.

Scyrah please deliver me from these scrubs.

>>48467778
>friends
Not sure I can judge this issue.

But. I am amazed how long people take to complete a turn. Unless you've got three units, you've no excuse. Even people who broadcast their games for the world to see apparently go into mental hibernation during their opponents turns, and need a spring before they reach the summer of actually completing their own turn.

Also. Can anyone tell me why, unless the scenario requires you to objective-wise, do people not fuck over their opponents threat ranges by half a turn/activation by simply not moving up the board full distances?

>>48460712
Its almost like thats an acception not a rule