Pathfinder General - /pfg/

Reposting the strawpoll from the last thread.

Which book do we want leaked on Wednesday, /pfg/?
http://www.strawpoll.me/10606355

>>47998118
Hellknights, fuck yeah!

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>>47998118
>mfw don't give a fuck about hell's vengeance, just want to see the new vigilante options
>Spymaster's Handbook is losing the poll

I'm sure we'll get both when they come out anyway, but that's still a little disappointing.

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>>47998224
I don't think many of those voting for Hellknight care about Hell's Vengeance either, they just think the Hellknights are an interesting organization and want to know more. Besides, we all know Batman would be a Hellknight.

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Am I the only one who really has no interest in Strange Aeons?

It just seems like a cringeworthy 2spoopy5me lovecraft circlejerk.

The Paizo forums havent helped, as they've just reinforced my knowledge that most of the Pathfinder player base doesnt actually know how to form their own ideas and character concepts.

The amount of "I want to be a qlippoth because this is the cthulhu campaign" is fucking staggering.

>>47998397
Yeah, you're the only one. Lovecraft circlejerks are the only way I can even get it up anymore. The fuck is the point of playing something that ISN'T a qlippoth?

I can play a human and disappoint girls dreaming about having way more of their orifices filled at the same time in the IRL LARP of life, anon.

>>47998397
Well knowingly there is also going to be a lot less of the HP Lovecraft we know and love. It'll be politically correct Lovecraft.

>>47998224
I know that feel. I just want to see the archetypes too.

>>47998397
Yeah, I'm not interested either. The adventure paths are awful to begin with, and this one's by and for the kind of idiots who have never actually read a Lovecraft story and think that Lovecraftian=tentacles.

>>47998397
Eh. It's not as bad as it could have been. I still hate the concept, but at least Paizo ended up going with the Elder God the party's fighting against being the one with a track record of getting blown up by PCs.

>>47998453
>tentacle-centric adventure path
You might change my opinion on it with that, anon..

>>47998397
I'm with you and >>47998453. Lovecraft never really did it for me and Paizo's take on the genre is even less appealing to me.

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>>47998397

>>47998481
>party wakes up with amnesia due to a serious bender
I kind of want to play Frat Bros of Cthulhu now. It's that or Lewdcraft with all those tentacles

>>47998546
>the real reason QANON didn't apply to Gareth's game is that she's waiting for a lewd Strange Aeons group
You've cracked it, anon

So, hey guys, does anyone have a game I could join? I'm desperate to the point I'll at least try anything.

>>47998450
The racism in Lovecraft was the least cool part of Lovecraft, anon. The Rats in the Walls was fucking amazing but the cat being named Niggerman (and no, it wasn't politically correct when he wrote it either) was just fucking distracting. The Street was bad. Medusa's Coils was bad. The one where the guy realizes his ancestors fucked an ape, no good. Pickman's Muse, Eric Zann, the Thing on the Doorstep, all great stuff, but whenever the whole miscegenation jerk crept in it was to the detriment of the rest of the work.

Except Shadow Over Innsmouth, but that's because it's not so obvious - we can all shudder at the thought of the pure-hearted virgin waifu next door giving herself willingly to a slimy fish-monster so she can breed with it because we're such shit fishermen.

More PC Lovecraft is fine. TOO PC Lovecraft would be bad, but Pathfinder already has rape monsters, so.

>>47998632
*not implying Pickman's Muse or the other two had anything racist really in them (except for the family in the Thing being subtly black), but that they were great because they DIDN'T include his obsessive bullshit, just the cosmic and body horror we know and masturbate to daily

Do we know anything about Horror Adventures yet? Apparently it's coming out next month, but there's barely any information on it, even a release date.

>>47998632
>cat being named Niggerman
this will always be hilarious to me; it's just so fucking jarring

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>>47998537

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>>47998690

>>47998679
Did you not just go to the store page for it...?
http://paizo.com/products/btpy9n5a?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Horror-Adventures
>Corruptions that can turn your character into a powerful monster, from a blood-drinking vampire to a savage werewolf. The only cost is your soul!
>Character options to help heroes oppose the forces of darkness, including horror-themed archetypes, feats, spells, and more!
>A detailed system to represent sanity and madness, giving you all the tools you need to drive characters to the brink and beyond.
>Tips and tools for running a genuinely scary game, along with an in-depth look at using horror's many subgenres in a Pathfinder campaign.
>Expanded rules for curses, diseases, environments, fleshwarping, haunts, and deadly traps.
>New templates to turn monsters into truly terrifying foes, from creatures made of living wax to a stalker that can never be stopped!
>... and much, much more!

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>>47998715

>>47997853
Is Ultimate Occult in the trove yet?

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>>47998728

>>47998716
I saw that, but it's just cover blurbs. Doesn't really tell us anything.

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>>47998748

>>47998632
Removing racism from Lovecraftian horror is disingenuous. You don't have to agree with it, nor like it, but to present something as "lovecraftian", minus one of the integral aspects of his work is simply rejecting his atmosphere of intent. It becomes less authentic Lovecraft and more Lovecraft-saturated-with-modern-values.

>>47998507
Isn't Chaosium involved in Strange Aeons though?

I'm gonna be honest, every time I hear about Strange Aeons I think it's bout Aeons and not Lovecraft style stuff.

Speaking of Aeons: has anyone actually used them? What do they even do?

>>47999071
They go around being litte shits and enforcing "balance".

In Golarion canon they're all lackys of Phantasma or whatever she's called, which I personally think is stupid.

>>47998735
Yes.

>>47999163
Just checked... Nope.

>>47999071

No, they're absolute bullshit and should be A) lawful and B) are already covered by inevitables

>>47998450
Archetypes would be nice, but I want talents. I WANT TO SEE THOSE TALENTS.

I also want to believe that they'll introduce something to unfuck Mystic Bolts for people stuck using 1pp, but I'm not holding out much hope.

Playing Serpents Skull tomorrow, character is a half orc gestalt scarred witchdoctor (CON casting version)/barbarian using a large Great Terbutje made from viridium.Its also my heirloom weapon so its masterwork and I have +1 to attack with it.I'm planning on power attacking everything for 2d8+9, and buffing my short round (halfling rogue with a sling)I took fates favored and sacred tattoo for +2 to all saves.No other party members so that's why I'm gestalt.Will this be any good?

>>47999381
But what about rilmani anon?

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I missed it since I was at work, how awful was Ultimate Occult? I'm downloading the pictures now but I won't have a chance to go through them for a bit.

>>47998975
It's not even in the vaguest of senses disingenuous because Lovecraftian horror is not used to refer to the racism in his work any more than Michael Bayesian means the movie stars Megan Fox. Please don't reveal your power level so easily and without prompting.

No one wants "exactly authentic to Lovecraft" or else we could just read the shit he's written over and over again. We want LovecraftIAN, and what is meant by that is cosmic horror, not the fucking KKK's nightmare family tree.

>>47999468
It was blatant copying and pasting of UltPsi. Vitalist and Dread became Psion archetypes. Even had actual names of class features, like the Vitalist archetype had a Collective.

Oh, and there was brutal retardation in there too. They copied the Spheres idea for Disciplines, making each Discipline a !Not bloodline for the !Not Arcanist class they shit out, but made Psychoportation into an Illusion specialist, because they have no idea what psychoportation is.

It's just sad for DSP. There was already friction, but it's outright theft now.

Are there any leaks for Fleshwarping or corruptions in Horror Adventures yet? I've had a hankering to make a body horror character to the level of John Carpenter's Thing for quite some time now and it finally looks like I may be getting the material I need to do so, and the stuff I need to have my PC force that warping on others.

>>47999516
Nigger, spheres were a concept from 2e. 2e priests grabbed their entire spell list from domains, but domain lists were far more extensive in 2e.

>>47999475
>suggesting I have a power level to reveal
Big leap there anon. But hey, everyone who holds a different opinion on the matter must have underlying racist motivations eh?

>>47999468
>>47999516
I'm also staggered by how dumb the PsyWar in it is, since they can be knocked out of concentration as though they were casting spells. So a good number of their class features are tied to an ability that they can be knocked out of for full combats (unless they take a talent to drop it to a move action) by getting hit. As a melee class.

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Doesn't Strange Aeons work as a Lovecraft work because, just like all their other APs, the PCs are working with powers beyond their comprehension and will end the campaign as forgotten and useless as they started?

>>47999751
>the final boss of strange aeons is literally the DM.

>>47999673
No, you fucking nigger, I mean you're AUTISTIC. No one means "racism + cosmic" when they say "Lovecraftian horror." Trying to argue that any derivative work must include ALL elements and themes of the original to be "authentic" is a metaphysical guarantee of strong autism, especially when you're arguing about an aspect it's commonly understood is not desirable in derivation. If we want racism, we can vote Republican.

It's especially autistic because it barely even makes sense in Pathfinder, races literally are different species and some of them can't fucking interbreed, let alone that divisions based on things like WHO SUMMONS DEMONS are probably a little more prevalent in Golarion's social consciousness. Having humans nigger-nigger each other over skin color is like if in real life we started deferring to the opinion of foot fetishists on who deserves to be a first-class citizen.

For the folks that were asking earlier, the psionic content for In the Company of Dragons is already done and turned in to Rite; our end is finished up.

>>47999426
How'd they screw up mystic bolts? I don't see any obvious issues.

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>>47999834
They're just shitty arrows. Everything that isn't arrows is just shitty arrows. Rapidshot, Manyshot, GG. Every time. IDK why people want ranged weapons that aren't bows but if you do you need to play some other system entirely.

>>47999777
Damn does this give me a metafiction hard on. Probably an impossible concept to pull off though... Unless you set the campaign up with the party learning that they are being controlled by an incomprehensible power, they adventure to learn more and fight in the name of free will, they slay an eldritch monstrosity and 'Master of the Games' only to come to the realization that everything they've done has been under the control of these incomprehensible powers, even their quest in the name of free will wasn't even done out of free will and they never really will be free, they realize that no matter what they will remain puppets (Keep playing), until eventually and suddenly just when they've presumably received their 'happy ending' they cease to exist entirely (Stop playing). You win as a GM if you get your players so invested in the PCs and their cause that they quit playing so their characters won't have to suffer under the control of an ulterior force anymore.

>>47999834
Anon wanted them to be super rapidfire eldritch blasts instead of being free and easy dual handcrossbows that get a stat to damage and need no reloading.

>>47999869
War Soul Psychic Armory Soulknife into Phoenix Champion is better.

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>>47999809
>It's especially autistic because it barely even makes sense in Pathfinder, races literally are different species and some of them can't fucking interbreed, let alone that divisions based on things like WHO SUMMONS DEMONS are probably a little more prevalent in Golarion's social consciousness. Having humans nigger-nigger each other over skin color is like if in real life we started deferring to the opinion of foot fetishists on who deserves to be a first-class citizen.

The fact they went through the trouble of giving us stereotypes and racial assumptions for individual ethnicities suggests that yes, people *are* looking at your skin color and they *are* judging you for it.

This "white and brown uniting to gang up on green" is idealistic bullshit perpetuated to ignore centuries of history that showed yes, even in the face of a totally alien foreign group vaguely different ethnic groups *will still* fight among themselves, in fact they'll fight even HARDER! Just look at Central America and North America if you want proof!

>>47999881
If they're not better than a dedicated longbow fighter, they shouldn't be class features. There's no point in a class feature that is worse than someone else's casual build choice.

>>47999908
That's bows being stupidly powerful.

Manyshot should not exist.

Composites should either not exist or other ranged options should have an equivalent.

>>47999908
>If they're not better than a dedicated longbow Warrior NPC, they shouldn't be class features.
FTFY.

>>47999884
Except those distinctions are retarded because the game isn't that GRANULAR. Below the level of national identity characters are barely anything. It's not "white and brown" putting aside their differences it's "if Cheliax has two human ethnic groups no one except strong autists know about it because no one reads that deep into the setting."

>>47999908
What? You're saying having a single class feature is garbage if someone can put their entire specialization with all their own features into doing it better? How does that logic work?

>>47999946
3.5e had Deadly Throw, allowing STR on to-hit with thrown weapons. Combining that with Monk flurries was pretty good, since STR is easy to stack.

>>47999971
I think he means 'If a class' primary feature isn't better than an NPC class attempting the same role, it should be better', which is a more accurate and agreeable statement.

>>47999976
>>47999946
There is a feat in Akashic Mysteries to apply strength to thrown attack rolls and to use Power Attack on your thrown weapons. Its pretty good.

>>47999884
Except we've never had a black and white vs green scenario. The closest would be when the europeans came to north america and lo and behold the tribes ended up working together in an attempt to deal with it. It fell apart later but they werent facing a different species, it was just funny looking people.

>>48000000

>>47998118
Wow this gen is fucking dead.

Hypothetical time!
>So you're sitting wherever you are now, shitposting on 4chan.
>suddenly, Jason Bulhman, the all mighty wizard lord of Paizo, appears before you in a mighty bolt of Lightning. Two chaotic good, wisdom 7, bardic vixens at his side!
>"DO NOT BE AFRAID MORTAL, FOR I HAVE APPEARED BEFORE YOU ON THIS DAY TO GIVE YOU A QUEST!"
>"I HAVE REALIZED THAT TACKLING LOVECRAFTIAN THEME AND HORROR IN STRANGE AEONS IS DAUNTING TASK FOR MY MINIONS! MY DIVINATIONS HAVE POINTED ME FOR THIS HIVE OF SEXISTS, TROLLS AND RIFF RAFF IN ORDER TO SEEK AID!"
>"YOUR QUEST: CREATE A DRAFT OF STRANGE AEONS CONVEYS LOVECRAFTIAN/HORROR THEMES TO THE PLAYER, WHILE STILL BEING A FUN AND ENGAGING EXPERIENCE!"
>"THE REQUIREMENTS ARE AS FOLLOWED
>The AP needs to start in an asylum, from that point on you can do as you like with locale.
>The AP needs to involve beings from the Cthulhu Mythos mentioned in previous Paizo materials.
>You are not allowed to incorporate third party materials into the AP
>the PC's need to finish the AP by 17th level.
>if the PC's are successful, their impact on Golarion as a whole should be kept minimal assuming. So no killing major political figures possessed by eldritch gods.
>no crossover from the technology guide.
>[OPTIONAL] New Magic items to be featured with each installment of the AP
>"IF YOU SATISFY ME! YOU SHALL BE HANDSOMELY REWARDED! I SHALL MAKE YOUR WAIFU REAL!
>WITH THAT JAMES JACOBS GRABS A HUNK OF CHAOTIC GOOD BARD ASS AND SLAMS HIS MIGHTY STAFF INTO THE GROUND TELEPORTING BACK TO PAIZO HQ
What would you do /pfg/?

>>48000103
Nobody has cared about gets since 2013.

>>48000181
stfu I care

>>48000153
Be confused, since Bulhman turned into JJ halfway through his explanation.

>>48000191
Literally why.

>>48000103
>6 0s
Nice get. Too bad its a problem with War Room.

>>48000153
>suddenly, Jason Bulhman, the all mighty wizard lord of Paizo
>WITH THAT JAMES JACOBS GRABS A HUNK OF CHAOTIC GOOD BARD ASS
I'm in. No waifu no laifu as they say.

>>48000153
>the AP showcases corrupted versions of every single iconic hero
>the impact should be minimal
Good luck

>>48000197
He's a wizard, fuck you.

>>48000153
>>"IF YOU SATISFY ME! YOU SHALL BE HANDSOMELY REWARDED! I SHALL MAKE YOUR WAIFU REAL!
tell him to go fuck himself my waifu's already real haha screw you lonely nerds

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>>48000153
>Chaotic "Good"

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Alright /pfg/ I'm heading to bed, but first I give you one last gift.

>>48000401
IT'S NOT A GIFT

IT'S A CURSE

>>47998397
Hi Soilent!

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>>47999834
>>47999881
>>47999908
>stat to damage
>"free and easy dual handcrossbows"
>a weapon locked at 30 ft range, no stat to-damage, shit passive scaling, no stat to damage, and no item to boost them, and with no way to pierce the elemental resistances
>you can literally go avenger vigilante, grab a longbow, and pick up combat feats to be better than the guy who archetypes into Warlock and dedicates his entire specialization into a useless feature

This isn't even about being better than or equal to archery, it's that they're fucking WORTHLESS if /ANYTHING HAS ANY RESISTANCE AT ALL/, and there's NO WAY to make them scale or be useful after low levels. They are your entire specialization and you're still better off using a longbow as a warlock.

So I may have an opportunity to redesign aspects of the Pathfinder outer planes. What should I change, what should I keep?

>>47998770
aw, that fucker's cute. Not as cute as Sir Orangepeel, but cute.

>>47999516
Isn't that what OGL is for? Writers can share their material and still get credited for it.

>>48000401
>>48000424
>>48000438
what a surprise
its shit.

>>48000726
Ultimate Psionics is NOT OGL.

>>48000726
They didn't credit the books the vitalist and dread are from in their OGL.

>>48000846
>>48000866
Oh I'm sure it was an accidental oversight or something :^)

>>48000679
Aeons no longer lisen to Pharasma
Qlippoth Lords are far more active in the planes at large

>>48000679
For 3pp?

I can't wait for the negative reviews of Ultimate Occult to start coming in only to have Paizo remove the critical ones like they did for the Trickster.

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>>48000153
I'm not doing your homework for you, dude.

Best gestalt build that won't get banned immediately?

>>48000219
That's the new Horror book.

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>>48000866

>>48000920
Summoner/Oracle

>>48000846
How is it NOT OGL? If you're publishing Pathfinder compatible material it's OGL. That's how it works.

>>48000920
Barbarian//Alchemist

>>48000920
Occultist|Occultist.

>>48000920
druid/monk you wont get banned until like lvl 8 or 9

>>48000940
I thought some of the psionic classes referenced came later?

>>48000900
The removed reviews were literally just rants instead of actual reviews.

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I knew Sword and Board is pretty bad in Pathfinder.

But is Sword and Board Alchemist viable? I just want to do Monster Hunter style SnS user (complete with bomb and potion).

My party isn't particularly optimize so I won't be overshadow for sure.

>>48000978
They referenced the wrong book, several of the referenced classes are from UltPsi, not PsiUn.

It's shameless plagiarism no matter how you look at it.

>>48000920
full caster/another full caster with the same casting stat

>>48001012
Alchemists don't get shields, so not particularly unless you want to spend the feat on it.

>>48001001
I saw them before the removal and agree with you, anon. It might be fun to laugh at shitposting, but reviews like that aren't helping anyone except for getting a chuckle.

>>48000961
Man I got my druid monk banned and it was just regular multiclass.

>>48001026
Oh yeah, if you submitted something like this in an academic setting, you would be lucky to only be expelled.

Although I guess Paizo is cool with sniping DSP.

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>>48000920
samurai//pug

>>48001039
A Darkwood shield is cheap and has no armor check penalty, so there's nothing stopping you from using it without proficiency.

>>48001077
>>48001039
Are there people who still think Shield Proficiency matter?

>>48001065
They do this because they know DSP can't afford the legal fees and any payout DSP actually got from a successful suit would be minimal after paying for representation.

>>48001001
>>48001051

I didn't realize kobold was sending shills into /pfg/ now. They were perfectly legitimate reviews, they pointed out the class's many flaws and gave them 1 star reviews because no reasonable GM would allow something like the shitpile that is the trickster into a game.

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Hey there, /pfg/
I'm working on a homebrew alchemist archetype. Tell me what you think:

Mutation Master Alchemist Archetype
A Mutation Master specializes in perfecting his mutagens and has developed his own special formula to trigger his own evolutionary mutation.

Weakened Bombs
Mutation Masters spend more time perfecting their mutagen that they forsake their bomb crafting. The Mutation Master does not gain the bomb class feature until 5th level.

Diminished Discoveries:
Mutation Masters cannot select the following list of Discoveries: Cognatogen, Feral Mutagen, Phantom Limb, Tentacle, Vestigial Arm and Wings.

New Discoveries:
Evolved Tumor Familiar - (requires Tumor Familiar Discovery) A Mutation Master may share up to half the total amount of his evolution pool with his tumor familiar.

Improved Evolution Pool - A Mutation Master adds his intelligence modifier to the total number of points in his Evolution Pool.

Mutation Mutagen:
Mutation Masters concoct a more potent, more dangerous variation of the standard Alchemist Mutagen.
In addition to the natural armor bonus and the bonuses and penalties applied to their ability scores, when an Mutation Master prepares a mutagen, he gains a pool of Evolution Points from the Eidolon's Evolution Pool equal to his Alchemist level and may allocate those points for Evolutions.
This modifies the Mutagen class feature.

Mutation Modification
Once per day as a full round action while under the effect of his Mutation Mutagen, the Mutation Master may change any of his evolutions by allocating its evolution pool on new evolutions.
At 6th level, this process is reduced to a standard action.
This replaces the Poison Use and Swift Poisoning class features.

>>48001065
This isn't a Paizo book.

>>48001001
I guess we'll have to disagree. If you're pointing out that something is too broken to actually play you don't really need to give the point-by-point rundown on all the Trickster's class features.

>>48001182
If you think any tabletop game company has the extra money to pay people to come to fucking 4chan of all places and shill, you have a seriously skewed opinion of the industry.

>>48001192
So whats the difference between this and a Synth Summoner?

>>48001210
Don't two of the creators work for paizo?

>>48001240
different casting stats
alchemist formulae instead of summoner spell list
brew potion and alchemy are pretty nice
Alchemist discoveries are great, especially since you can still access the greater and improved mutagens

All in all, a stronger Synth Summoner with a time limit.

The balancing factor is that mutagen must be prepped for an hour per day. Which limits how often the alchemist becomes a monstrous badass.

>>48001108
Considering that Shield Proficiency is a prerequisite for shield-related things? Yes.

>>48001272
Who are the creators?

You know, it was kind of a Tangent last night, but I actually kinda wanna do this

I really, really miss Prestige classes, and I would like to try to bring them back to Pathfinder.

The key to this is making sure that whatever prestige classes i make/remake from 3.5 ones, that they fill a unique slot.

in 3.5 prestige classes often filled the holes inbetween classes, with archetypes and the number of classes we have now, thats basically pointless. Its been done.

Prestige classes need to be very special, a tangent thats too small to make an entire class around, but is perfect for 5-10 levels. A good example of Prestige classes in Pathfinder that I would look to reach near would be the Dragon Disciple, the Chevalier, and probably the Shadow Dancer

Any ideas on this?

>>48001403
Full-casting Bard PRC, like Sublime Chord

>>48001453
Oh shit there were some cool bard PRCs

I need to see if I can get a bunch of 3.5 pdfs, i used to have a bunch

Why the love for Path of War? My every experience with it has been tremendously, eathershatteringly broken beyond all reason. Tripping at a +20 at level 3, becoming permanently incorporeal at will at level 6, critting on a 15...

Am I just getting munchkins?

>>48001388
It's from Rogue Genius Games, a company owned by Owen KC Stephens well before he joined Paizo. The author is Alexander Augunas who is just a freelancer.

>>48001474
I mean if you wanna lie out your ass, sure mang.

>>48001474
I can't tell if you're baiting or just stupid.

>>48001474
>Tripping at a +20 at level 3
A UC Monk can trip, grapple and pin an enemy in a single round at +20
>becoming permanently incorporeal at will at level 6
20% miss chance is laughable
>critting on a 15...
whatiscritfishermaguswithshockinggraspbuild?

>>48001474
You're lying or haven't read the core rule book yet.
Possibly both.

>>48001481
I'm under the impression they credited PsiUlt under a freelancer to avoid potential litigation.

If its a freelancer, DSP will consider a lawsuit too costly for no gain.

>>48001481
Augunas is the big name for Everyman Gaming and has also worked for Paizo, anon.

>>48001144
Pro-bono lawyers actually exists, and I recall there are literary institutions that serve to help writers protect their intellectual property.

>>47998680

Well, I suppose if my group decides to play the AP I'm making a catfolk named Niggerman.

>>48001623
Again, as a freelancer, Anon.

Do you even understand how this industry works?

>>47999516
>It's just sad for DSP. There was already friction, but it's outright theft now.

This wasn't a Paizo book though, was it? I thought it was from some other 3PP that's even less well-known than DSP. Rogue Genius or something. Is that really going to cause them problems?

>>48001786
If Paizo pushes it, then there's the chance that more people will jump ship for "first party psionics."

It's dumb, but it happened before.

>>48001865
It's doubly dumb since they could just as easily push DSP instead and be much more successful.

Question:
I'm a Zweihander Sentinel, which lets me treat any two-handed weapon as a light shield for the purpose of shield bashing. I'm using a Greatsword, which is a Scarlet Throne discipline weapon. If I take Discipline Focus (Scarlet Throne), will the +2 damage apply when I 'shield bash' with my greatsword? I could just take the focus for Iron tortoise, but I'd rather get +2 to my Scarlet Majesty Stance.

>>48001930
Interesting question, immediate bump for possible attention

>>48001865
you want total buttblasting?
Just wait til they release a "first party path of war" book.

I think Paizo devs secretly lurk the /pfg/ and gitp boards to see how players are receptive to other contents and just steal those ideas for themselves.

(example: the abortion known as the Kineticist)

>>48001959
and then they nerf Martials more

XD

>>48001959
>first party path of war

will never happen.
they hate martials having nice things.

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>>48001959
Okay, so where did the Kineticist originally come from then?

>>48002004
Warlock.
Everything the Kineticist has was taken and butchered from the Warlock.

Do they have some sort of Springtime for Hitler scheme going on with this Ultimate Occult shit? What do they expect to gain from this?

>>48002004
The kineticist was born of people wanting something like the 3.5 Warlock. All-day blasting.

>>48002038
NOW with DAILY LIMITS on half its shit, every use of which slaughters your effective remaining hitpoints!

>>48001547
being incorporeal isn't a misschance it is immunity to nonmagical physical damage and you can't grapple or maintain a grapple as part of an attack

>>48001786
It's from two Paizo writers, with the rest of Paizo publically enthused about the content, released under non-Paizo so Paizo doesn't take heat for it.

>>48001786
I think Rogue Genius has actually been around longer and sold more products than DSP. DSP isn't actually that big or successful for a 3pp, they were just the first ones to port a couple of the more popular subsystems from 3.5.

I need a 5th level cohort. I'm a squishy Telepath/Thrallherd, and the rest of the party is ECL 6 with me - a Hidden Blade Rogue, Spherecaster centered on Life and Warp, an Artisan focused on, uh. Making things. And a STR-based Unchained Monk, who I and the Artisan are conspiring to make a complete badass, just because we can.

I was thinking of making a War Soul Psychic Armory Soulknife, since we're using the high psionics sidebar.

Ability scores are 4d6r1d1 each, rearrangeable, but literally any 3.5e/PF content is allowed.

The setting has a LOT of Undead, which makes me rather tempted to pull a Radiant Servant of Pelor, but we're also a very Evil party (literally, killed 51 orphans and a homeless guy last session, in exchange for some magic rings, and as a side effect a bunch of demons showed up and ruined one of the few remaining towns). I could probably cheese it a la Thrallherd being mind control, but I'd rather not.

Any good ways for not-Good folks to slaughter Undead, I'm all ears. Nightguard might be good, but it lacks maneuvers, which saddens me for martial builds.

>>48001959
>newish to pathfinder
>get idea in my head to make a bloodrager archetype similar to Sacred Fish
>Call it the Bloody Fist/Blood Riot, never decided on a name
>posted it here
>a few months later, the Bloody Knuckle Rowdy comes out
???
I always thought I was just being crazy.

>I didn't realize DSP was sending shills into /pfg/ now

>>48001474
>Tripping at a +20 at level 3,
Probably a skill-check-replaces-CMB maneuver, which is the only way to make CMBs really worth it. Still inferior in most cases to things like Sleep, Grease, Black Tentacles, etc.

>becoming permanently incorporeal at will at level 6
Permanently incorporeal if they take a specific ability, from a specific school, that they can only ready once (make sure you know this, it's kinda like the maximum-PP-per-round for psionics, people overlook it). They have to use it every round, then recover their maneuvers every round - which means you're basically sitting there incorporeal doing nothing. Remember that incorporeality works both ways for PCs - unless they're using a ghost touch weapon they're dealing half damage.

>critting on a 15...
I'll take 'literally any scimitar or rapier build' for 800, Alex.

>>48002212
It's been happening for a while.

>>48002212
>now
Where do you think we are?

>>48002212
Just because people like something you don't like, doesn't make them shills.

>>48002212
>>48002245
>>48002265
I've got a book on the Illuminati to sell ya, since you're big on implausible conspiracies with no reasonable profit done with insufficient resources.

>>48000642
Sup breh.

So, how does someone get incorporeality at level 6?

>>48002290
nice can you also tell me about the lizard people?

>>48002290
Damnit Gareth stop selling me books

>>48002301
There's a level 3 Veiled Moon boost that makes you incorporeal for one round. So you can actually do it at level 5, if you use the maneuver every round and recover your maneuvers every round. It limits your actions heavily in combat, and can't be used for walking through thick walls and such because you're technically corporeal for a moment every round.

>>48002302
According to Ramtha, they all live under Mt. Rainier and plan to invade under the cover of a volcanic eruption; the only way to be safe is to surround yourself and your home with rock salt.

>>48002301
be unchained monk
pick Empty Body
spend 3 ki to go incorporeal for a full minute at level 4

>>48002290
>Not sure if anyone caught that this was a direct copy of a previous post replacing Kobold Press with DSP.

>>48002302
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/race-points-unknown/reptoid

>>48002414
It's been said in complete seriousness enough times that I no longer assume sarcasm out the gate. You've my apologies.

>>48002408
But it's not broken because there's a limiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

PoW is broken because you can do it foreveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

>>48002408
>>Spend the rest of your day without ki because you have a tiny ki pool.

>>48002446
I'm also the same anon who made the post about tRPGs not having the funds (or desire) to send people here to shill, so I feel you on this fight.

>>48002395
thnx senpai

>>48001930

Your light shield bash is treated as a light shield bash for all purposes, regardless of what weapon you are wielding.

>>48002452
Was that sarcasm or emphasis?

>>48002577
That's . . . only slightly disappointing.

>>48002633
Sarcasm masquerading as emphasis.

Why does the Monk of the Silver Fist not have access to Broken Blade?
It's the monk-est discipline in the game, even more so than Fool's Errand.

>>48002673
That was asked a lot during the playtest too, and never really answered.

>>48002302
According to CNN one will be our next president.

>>48002706
If I recall, they gave the reason of Silver Fist not being an offensive archetype, and Broken Blade is ALL THE OFFENSE ALL THE TIME MORE DAMAGE MORE.

>>48002764
Well I guess there's always unorthodox style.

>>48002673
I think the reason given was that the Silver Fist was designed as a guardian, not an ascetic.

>>48002673

The reason was because if you made an initiator monk archetype with Broken Blade, they'd suck in comparison to all the other monk-alikes (stalker, steelfist commando, dervish defender, aurora soul mystic, etc). So rather than make a sucky monk-alike initiator, they decided to make a tanky monk.

>>48002790
What the hell is the difference?

Monks are punchy.

Broken Blade is punchy.

>>48002825
Yes, but Silver Fist is defensive, whereas BB is the 100% opposite.

>>48002825
The Silver Fist was not designed with monk-stuff in mind. Also, Broken Blade is actually broken, so it's a good thing that the archetype doesn't have it.

>>48001959
>I think Paizo devs secretly lurk the /pfg/ and gitp boards
>secretly

Not when total dramaqueers Crystal and Bhulman constantly reference us triggering the shit out of them.

>>48002882
> Broken Blade is actually broken, so it's a good thing that the archetype doesn't have it.
Not with unarmed strikes and gauntlets it isn't.

>>48002825

All the melee-compatible disciplines are punchy.

Why do you need a special "unarmed strikes only" discipline to be punchy?

>>48002882
>The Silver Fist was not designed with monk-stuff
It's literally a monk archetype with unarmed damage progress.
>>48002944
>All the melee-compatible disciplines are punchy.
Not they aren't because 1d4+Xd6+STAT for a single strike is fucking pathetic.

>>48002944
Speaking of punchiness, I kinda feel like all of the full-BAB-progression classes ought to get improved Unarmed Strike for free at level 1, or else maybe remove the feat entirely and just make it a natural effect of having a moderate but high enough BAB.

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>be DSP succubus
>take Mixed Heritage (Good)

Do I have both [good] and [evil] types now?

>>48002959
Let me point you here. >>48002824
It was designed as a tank so it got disciplines to help its roll. If you want something designed to be an unarmed killer monstrosity, there are a variety of better options.

>>48002982

Yes, congratulations.

>>48002959

1d4 is quite a bit different from, say, 1d12 at earlier levels, but at later levels the difference is more from static bonuses (especially 1.5x strength) than base damage.

>>48003044
> but at later levels the difference is more from static bonuses (especially 1.5x strength) than base damage.
Which great swords are still getting and unarmed strikes aren't.

>>48002982

>Mixed Heritage (Good)

What, born of the infinite lovemaking loop between a succubus and a gancanagh?

>>48003044
>Yes, congratulations.
So... do I count as good or evil? What about effects that are different based on my good/evil alignment?

>>48002764
So, they knew a discipline was broken and instead of fixing it they just kept it away from thematically appropriate characters? Cool.

>>48003081
Depends on the DM, since that's not normally something that can happen. I think the standard for things like that is 'whichever is worse for the PC', which is why humanbane weapons and elfbane weapons both affect half-elves.

>>48003095
Broken Blade isn't even broken with unarmed attacks, but faggots here act likes it's sacrilege to suggest that you should restrict the discipline to Unarmed Strikes and Natural Attacks only.

>>48003081

You count as both good and evil.

Ask your GM. I'd either take your actual alignment into account (ie: if you're good alignment, you are treated as good, if evil then evil, if neutral then neutral).

>>48003095

It may be thematically appropriate but not role appropriate. See here: >>48002824

I don't know what needs to go into fixing Broken Blade, but the reasons that apply to PoW1 as a whole likely apply.

>>48003095
>thematically appropriate characters
Holy shit the mobile tank guy uses Iron Tortoise (tanks), Eternal Guardian (supernatural tanking) and Mithral Current (mobility).

If you want to play an unarmed fighter fluffed as a guy that goes around killing shit, I believe you want the Steelfist Commando. Either that or you can take the trait for Broken Blade and be worse than a Steelfist Commando at killing and be a shitty tank.

>>48003110
Does the Mixed Blood feat give you the full effect of the subtype? I doubt it.

>>48003167
That feat isn't on the SRD, can you post the text?

>>48003167
Sure does give you the full good subtype.

>>48003167
>good
>You gain the good subtype, and you gain a +2 racial bonus on saves against effects with the evil descriptor.

>>48003181
Hard to. The feat comes with a table explaining what each type does.

>>48003165
>Update
How is a Silver Fist with BB worse than killing than a Steelfist. The Silver Fist has better unarmed strike damage, lightly less maneuver progression, and that's it. They would be about on par with each other.

>>48001786
Rogue Makes a lot more money and releases a lot more books than DSP.

>>48003081
You should, quite simply count as both. Both sets of effects would take effect. In cases where that is mutually exclusive (good are protected, evil are harmed), then it might be thematic to adjudicate a neutral option (or to fall within good or evil as appropriate for any clerical auras or the like you may have). But yes, Smite Evil and Smite Good both work on you, and things that cause mututally doable effects on either do both effects. It also means that Holy and Unholy weapons both would be issues for you, etc. Or, alternately, your existence is a major plot point within the setting and/or the DM adjudicates you don't actually have both descriptors due to some form of exclusion.

>>48003209
Fair enough.

>>48003203
If that's accurate, then you do indeed gain the good subtype, which would make you an Outsider (Native, Good, Evil) I think.

The way I'd handle it is this:
1. If something has a special effect based on one of your subtypes, but doesn't care about the other, then that effect takes place. Example: you could wield a weapon that can only be wielded by those with the good subtype.
2. If something has multiple effects based on your subtypes, you take which ever one is worse for you. Example: a weapon that grants a bonus to-hit if you have the good subtype, but gives you a negative level if you're evil, would give you a negative level.

But then this is coming from the school of thought that dual-type abilities are mostly designed to weaken a character rather than buff them. As always, ask your GM, because their opinion matters a lot more than a random fag on the internet.

>>48001902
I don't think anyone outside of DSP wants to associate with DSP. DSP doesn't have a strong reputation among other publishers.

Also they did push Ultimate Psionics pretty hard ages ago.

>>48003181
>>48003203
>>48003271

For Mixed Blood(Alignment), it basically gives the full effect.

The general rule at the top of the pdf is that you count as [type/ subtype] for effects and prerequisites, but you don't gain the other benefits of the type/ subtype.

The feat tells you not to recalculate. Nothing too unusual.

>>48003219
Steelfist has full BAB, in class bonuses to attack and damage, better maneuver progression, and class features oriented to sneaking up and gibbing some faggot.

>>48003219
Steelfist has Full BaB for better power attack, a scaling static bonus to unarmed strikes, counts as large for unarmed strikes at level 8 while getting Greater Unarmed Strike for free, and gains an additional +2d6 damage to flat footed targets.

For reference, that means his unarmed strikes use 2d8 at level 15+, and 1d8 at 8th level. They are barely behind the monk's damage die, while getting all of the above bonuses, faster maneuver progression, more maneuvers known and readied, and a recovery that can be used while murdering.

>>48003387
>recovery that can be used while murdering.
How much you want to bet there going to shit on a fun discipline like Broken Blade while leaving shit like this and free damage Quadrupling unchanged.

Seriously, free maneuver recovery is the real fucking issue with path of war.

>>48003437
If they really want to 'fix' broken blade, just make it live up to it's name: It can only be used with unarmed strikes, natural weapons, and improvised weapons. You can spend a feat on discipline adaptation (I think that's the name) if you really want to use it with a greatsword or whatever.

>>48003387
So they just pull slightly ahead of the monk then.

>>48003472
>You can spend a feat on discipline adaptation (I think that's the name) if you really want to use it with a greatsword or whatever.
You can already do that. And that is a problem. Just put in an "unarmed strike and nat weapon only, fuck your feats" clause like Solar Wind.


The only reason people push BB and PF as broken is because it lets people ignore the other fucking issues with PoW as a whole.

>>48003475

I don't see how that was your conclusion.

Even in Path of War, the Full Attack is EVERYTHING and Steelfist has a better full attack and have better boosts/stances to maximize the full attack.

>>48003518
>Even in Path of War, the Full Attack is EVERYTHING
If you play like a faggot yeah, but unarmed combat almost requires full attacks so you have a point.

I don't think BB monk really sucks at it though, it's just not DA BEST either.

>>48003219
2/3 as much isn't "lightly less".

>>48003475
So the damage die is slightly behind (about 2 average damage). Power attack is ahead (+12 damage vs +8 damage), scaling unarmed bonus on Steelfist (+3 to attack and damage), more strikes, better strikes, a recovery that does not give them a dead turn, +2d6 damage to flat footed foes.

Oh and way more accuracy since Full BaB.

>>48003251
[citation needed]

>long time friend and DM says he wants to do another Runelords campaign
>everyone in our extended group(s) enjoys it
>we get 6 fucking people legit signing up
Is it even possible to FIT that many PCs in certain encounters? I can remember parts of books 1,2,3,5 being really cramped at times and scenes really only needing one or two PCs talking.. worried desu.

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>>48003472
>>48003493
>unarmed strike and nat weapon only
Would be hilarious if any weapon you were using automatically counted as improvised because Broken Blade.
I mean, people would complain because people, but the idea of having to forget how to use a sword properly to use a martial maneuver makes me laugh important body parts off and seems thematically appropriate.

>>48003570
Which company had to move to patreon to secure customers since they weren't making enough releases and sales?

>>48003625
A lot of third party producers given ttrpgs are a small community and 3rd party users are an even smaller amount?

>>48003612
Book 1 was hell with 6 players, so cramped.

I've been running RotRL for the past year (game is every other Saturday). I'm about to start book 6. when does this adventure path get interesting for me, the GM to actually give a shit about it?
Book 1 - Alright, the gobos were fun.
Book 2 - The house was kind of cool
Book 3, 4 and 5 - Felt like nothing but filler and 'monster of the week' sort of bullshit.

I keep hearing about how people love this adventure path, I'm guessing that they're all players and not GMs. My players like the campaign, I can't stand it.

>>48003635
Yet Rogue Genius makes enough the traditional way to not have to use Patreon. They are staying in the black very well based on their relatively consistent releases.

>>48003570
Which has sunk to allow claims of "theft" of open content, allowing their fans to blast out other 3pps, and not call out or admit to their own shilling on /pfg/?

>>48003651
I joined the campaign in the level 8-10 range, not sure which book we're on. It just feels like a chore to me.

>>48003678

I don't even like Owen. Alex is a cool faggot though, big fan of some of his original works.

If all they did was copy 3.5 mechanics for the Psy War, Psion, Wilder, and Soulknife then this would be all ok. But they copied Vitalist, Dread, and other actual DSP mechanics? That's pretty shameful.

Still, they are a more successful company. They make a lot more releases and even if none/few of them outsell a single Path of War they make up for it with quantity.

>>48003678

Wait...so somehow DSP is both poor enough to require Patreon but also rich enough to afford shills?

>>48003720
I am not that anon.

You don't need to pay shills. Console Wars are proof enough.

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>>48003678
> Allow
> Implying I have even the slightest control over anon

This ain't my army. We've done as we've always done; stayed out of discussion on the work other publishers produce unless we can, or must, provide a factual reference of some variety (such as the numerous times I've had to remind anon that Erik Mona endorsed our psionics before the release of Occult Adventures, which was rather kind of him).

I can ask for anon's help, I can politely request that anon not do something, but that's about the beginning and end of my power. And I'm staying extra, super special out of discussion on Ultimate Occult because there's nothing I can say on it that won't be marred by my position.

To be frank, the shilling paranoia is getting pretty old. Put up or shut the fuck up, would you kindly? I'll wait for your evidence.

>>48003732

How does that differ from Fans then?

>>48003760
Easy, if you call them shills then you leave the implication that it's a actually DSP paying people to purchase products. If you call them fans then you're letting people know that these people genuinely enjoy their products.

>>48003751
Don't even respond to that idiot, he's just fishing for (You)s.

>>48003751

you need to keep in mind trolls thrive on (yous) gareth-fampai

>>48003719
>Still, they are a more successful company. They make a lot more releases and even if none/few of them outsell a single Path of War they make up for it with quantity.
I doubt that. I can't imagine anyone looking at something like Ultimate Occult and saying "This is something I want to spend money on."

>>48002982
DSP succubus? Someone's gonna need to fill me in here.

>>48003842

I agree with you in that I wouldn't, but I can easily imagine others might, because everybody has different likes and dislikes

In other words, here's the (you) you are so thirsty for

>>48003842
On DTRPG it's a hot seller. Apparently lots of people are buying.

They may or may not regret buying it, but it's selling well.

>>48003848
Monster Classes, Pinnacle & Pit (also includes the Hound Archon). Came out recently, should be in the trove if memory serves and you wanna take a look. Standard warning on monster classes balance applies, but there's some feats included that might catch your eye.

>>48003848
it's DSP Erinyes, actually.

Amusingly, it's ideal for the 3.5e PRC, Fiend of Possession. It takes the [evil] subtype, which was hard to get in 3.5e as a PC, but now two levels Psion one level Psychic meets the prereqs handily.

>>48003882
We did both, anon. Erinyes released first, though.

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>>48003880

>hound archon

is it a doge?

>>48003751
The shilling propaganda is obviously dumb, simple claims by simple people. And, fuck yes. It is tiring.

However, when people who represent a company come into a space like this to represent their company two things happen. Answering rules questions happens, which makes people feel engaged. But also, since there's no other companies "shilling" down here, you tend to run the dialog. And since no other companies come here, it makes DSP look exceptional to this crowd, which is why people make these claims.

>>48003898
fugk.

Well, Erinyes fits better. I'm a horrible person and like to mix TOME's Fiend-only classes with it too.

There's nothing like at-will Cone of Cold with CL=HD coming out of the BBEG's smoking pipe he left unattended long enough for me to get to it.

>>48003913
A few others companies have come here. We've had DDS, we've had the princess people, people keep saying paizo comes here (but with our attitude towards paizo and us not being a good market for outsiders to see they wouldn't post here under the paizo name, at least)

>>48003913

If I was a publishing company I sure as hell wouldn't want to engage with the 4chan /tg/ /pfg/ community

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>>48003902
See filename.

>>48003913
I can see that. I /am/ doing my level best to invite more folks in, under the continuing assumption that /pfg/ would like to engage with more developers. It's a bit of a hard invite to sell, though. N. Jolly's implied he'll be back at some point, no idea on BJ. Others turned it down for various reasons.

If anon would rather I didn't, mind, I can stop any time.

>>48003913
We know for a fact Paizo lurks, they've commented on it.

DDS has posted a few times, they don't tend to hang around in the threads as much though.

>>48003959

>If anon would rather I didn't

anon is not a consensus or hive mind, anon is whoever comments loudest and most frequently

>15 years old is adulthood in pathfinder
Does this mean my character can have a 15 year old wife and not be a creep.

>>48004040

As long as real life morals don't come into play in game, yes.

>>48004040
Why does your wife have to be 15, anon?

>>48004040
Character? Maybe. Player? No.

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>>48003969
>>48003932
As a freelancer from DDS and a /tg/ regular since 2010, I can confirm that the reason they (Stack, AmberVael, Adam Meyers, etc.) haven't been active recently is the simple reason that the appearance and post requirements of 4chan is alien and difficult for the grand majority of them.
Nowhere else in the English-language internet is the Futuba-style anonymous-posting self-deleting forum style used with any regularity with as large as 4chan is (7 and 8 are used, but they don't pull in nearly the amount of traffic that 4 does).
These are people used to names, avatars, mods with said names and avatars who make themselves known, and feedback that is more akin to a low-burning passive-aggression instead of the shocking-blunt honesty and unvarnished vitriol/commentary that we're famous for. Combine that with the fact that it's rather difficult for a neophyte to look back to previous threads and try to collect feedback that gets lost to the deluge of posts, and you get a perfect mix of aspects that make most people go "fuck it, we're sticking with Paizo and GitP".
Which, as a /tg/ regular, frustrates me because we DO give feedback, and useful amounts of it too. But it ends up getting thrown away, because it's anonymous and rough instead of named and prettied-up. "Fuck, this ability is broken and here's the nitty-gritty as to why" goes over a lot more poorly than "this is alright I suppose, but there's some vague things I disagree with and won't detail more of."

>>48004105
Paizo doesn't want feedback, they're just fragile crybabies who want to have their egos stroked. Even back in the playtest, they deleted all the constructive criticism because they really don't care.

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>>48004105

you I like

>>48004135
They do want feedback, they want to hear what the majority of their customers think. They don't care about balance, they just want to sell things that their customers perceive to be fun. That's not what many of us want because many peoples' definition of fun differs.

>>48004169
It's at this point I recall the swathes of people telling them that Kineticist had issues.

Meanwhile, the Psychic elbowed out other classes for more space despite having the least interest in it by far out of anything.

>>48004105
While I get what you're saying, Paizo literally has ignored almost every single bit of playtest information they have ever recieved, all the way back to Alpha. The Occult Adventures playtest stands out as a giant, shining example of this ass-backwards shitfuckery.

LITERALLY thousands of posts giving fully-explained thought-out, formatted feedback, ACTIVELY TALKING with the actual developers themselves, the developer in question AGREEING with people, and then the faglords at the head forcing them to do nothing and actively make classes worse.

>>48004161
I'm going to need a source for that.

Okay friends, help me out with this shopping list.
In the campaign that I'll be playing in tomorrow, we are in a city built on top of a mountain, and underneath us is a network of changing caves. Tomorrow, we go into it. My character was given 200 gold, and the responsibility of preparing us for the adventure. Our party is myself an unchained rogue, an unchained monk, and a custom dragonrider class that's basically a cavalier with a neat mount instead of an order, and an NPC that I hired who wanted to see the caverns and is supposedly an expert on them but is a noncombatant (probably an Expert NPC class), and we're all 1st level. I'm also highly trained in alchemy, so I can get those items on the cheap by making them myself. So far I've gotten
>air crystals
>antitoxin
>antiplague
>alkali salt
>blackfingers paste (I have it on good authority that a rotting Drake body filled with poison is down there)
>bladeguard
>marker dye
>Impact foam
>vermin repelant
>cold iron weapon blanch (as a response to a knowledge dungeoneering check by me)
>a couple of Cure Light potions
>enough of all of the above for everyone in the party to have a dose
I've got <50gp left, what else can I get to be prepared for everything?

>>48004191
Rope.

>>48004040
You realize, in the time periods medieval fantasy is trying to emulate, girls were often married off by the time they hit puberty?

>>48004105
To be fair, we also have passive-aggressive and aggressive-aggressive non-constructive responses. And due to anonymity, it can seem like A LOT of people are rallying against you. It takes a while to form a mental filter to cut out the chaff, and that runs the risk of filtering good feedback.

>>48004191
I forgot to add that everyone else has their standard equipment and we also have plenty of rope and a couple of grappling hooks, and other standard things like that.

>>48004191
Dagger in your boot, 10' pole, chalk, flour pouch, dagger in your other boot.

>>48004218
Golarion is an SJW fantasyland where nothing of that sort happens because men and women are 'equal' sort of somehow.

>>48004182
Kokoro Connect, that's the actual dialogue, too.

>>48004228
Why the flour and the pole?

>>48003959
I /get/ that, but haven't you seen what has happened in those instances, and how that might be indicative of this space? N. Jolly was more or less laughed out/joked out and BJ was subjected to some really gross stuff that she laughed off. Publishers don't want to come here because what kind of marketing bonus does anyone get from "People on 4chan liked it"? That doesn't sell. People don't see 4chan as a selling point other than the small amount of tabletop gamers on 4chan that don't have other outlets.

>>48004233
Oh jeeze, really? Thank you.

>>48004105

I disagree with /tg/ giving good feedback.

Yes we give tons of feedback, mountains of it, but it's trash feedback.

Almost never do we go into the nitty gritty on feedback, usually it's just "LOOK THIS IS BAD, LOOK AT HOW BAD IT IS, CAN YOU NOT SEE IT IS BAD?"

Even when some math is posted it's never in the context of a complete build, just random ass numbers.

pfg does not know how to communicate or give useful feedback, so why bother?

>>48004235
Flour is ghetto faerie fire for invisible shit.

The pole's a pole. It finds traps, the depth of murky pools of crap, gives you a way to push that lever through the metal portcullis, etc.

>>48004235
Flour for throwing at invisible things (I prefer to carry chalk, because it's good for marking the walls and can still be crushed to use in the same way), 10 foot pole for touching things you don't want to be closer than 10 feet to. (Probe the floor for traps, whack the chest to be sure it's not a mimic, etc.)

>>48004191
Blood-boiling pills, if you can make them (I think they're too expensive to buy).

+2 to initiative for 8 hours in exchange for taking 1.5x bleed damage. Guess which one of those is more common by a mile?

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>>48004135
>>48004181
I was referring mostly to Drop Dead Studios, since that's the group I have "inside trade secrets" for.

People want feedback, always. Problem is, everyone wants feedback in the different way. Paizo's at the bottom, wanting "feedback" that just agrees with what they already did. They want to make "fun" things without putting effort into making it balanced, because they're of the mentality that too much tinkering with the math drains the soul of their projects. They're auteurs, or perhaps autistes is the better term.

Drop Dead Studios, by comparison, legitimately wants information that can be useful to be more fun AND balanced. However, they want it in a format that they can look back at weeks or months down the line and tinker at their own pace. 4chan doesn't really allow a slow pace, especially on a fast-moving thread or board like /pfg/ and /tg/. This scares most of the writers into not wanting to showcase their material here, because they won't be able to keep up with the literal flood of information and feedback that they can't possibly hope to read and respond to effectively. So unfortunately, a lot of DDS 'lancers have gained a negative and semi-stereotypical opinion of the place; we're rude, nasty, petulant things that gain pleasure from ripping into people's work, when in reality most of us would absolutely LOVE to chat with developers and have a hand in creating something new. The "/tg/ gets shit done" mentality, as it goes.
>>48004161
Thanks.

>>48004105

>>48004222 Me again being a fag, DSP took a PR hit for coming, apparently. There is just not enough incentive to come here. Unless a lot of devs openly frequent/ send a liaison here

>>48003959

Is a Psychic Armory's WIS-based attacks a purely mental action to use?

>>48004266
>People want feedback, always.
No, they don't. People want POSITIVE feedback always. 'People' like Paizo don't want anything that hurts their precious woo-woo babby feelings, or anything they think is 'problematic'.

Paizo is literally exactly what Riot Games is. It's a company that's exploiting a retarded playerbase and catering to the retards, because they know that as long as everyone LOOKS happy and gets what they ask for, regardless of if it's good or not, then they make money. And with them going full information control and deleteing any dissention, it always looks like everyone's happy.

>>48004277
The general public hears '4chan' and thinks of /b/.

>>48004277
And I mean, seeing how people act in these threads is it any wonder why companies who frequent here take a hit? Shota, loli, furries, lots of cheese cake, outright hostility with bigotry.

>>48004254
>>48004260
Nice, I never thought of flour before. Good plan.

>>48004261
What the fuck, source book?

>>48004266

>we're rude, nasty, petulant things that gain pleasure from ripping into people's work, when in reality most of us would absolutely LOVE to chat with developers and have a hand in creating something new.

Well, we are ALSO rude, nasty, petulant things that gain pleasure from ripping into people's work.

>>48004266
>However, they want it in a format that they can look back at weeks or months down the line and tinker at their own pace. 4chan doesn't really allow a slow pace,

Do what programmers do.
Set a to-do list based upon priority.

>>48004300
Or let us make comments on the google docs. You can respond to those at your leisure.

>>48004297
http://archivesofnethys.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Blood-boiling%20pill

Alchemy Manual, pg. 24. It's first-party.

>>48004307
I can see it now

"This is shit."

>>48004307
Hahahaha, jesus can you actually imagine what type of comments would be left by /pfg/?

>>48001065
When the fuck has Paizo done anything to even high school academic rigor ever?

>>48004310
Holy shit thank you friend, I'm going to start stockpiling this stuff.

>>48004237
I didn't exactly invite folks to boost sales. I invited folks because we've gotten good and/or fast data and catches from you guys. Anything else aside, anon - when motivated - is remarkably swift.

>>48004253
Eh, I'm not sure I agree. Sure, the initial replies aren't always helpful, but that's why we ask folks to expand, which anon's generally been happy and/or angry to do.

>>48004277
Hellfire, vhat? We've got readers/customers here, of course we showed up. What else are we gonna do, leave 'em to rot?

>>48004286
I have no idea.

>>48004295
...Okay, I can see that. /pfg/ does kinda get...yeah. There are conversations I stay out of for a reason.

>>48004307
That way is the way of the Xir shitposter, anon.

>>48004266
Sorry. No.
Paizo doesn't want "feedback"
they want "praise"

>Oh look at us. We're a games studio injecting progressive values into a problematic culture dominantly owned by neckbeard basement dwellers. We're so stunning and brave for shoehorning LGBTs into our APs no matter how retarded, while ignoring the actual in-lore racism between humans and every other races. Please suck our proverbial dicks that we all cut off to appear progressive.

>>48004313
>>48004314
You guys know that DSP and DDS have both posted gdocs with comments on and gotten useful feedback out of it, right?

>>48004331
No adventuring party should be without their combat drugs. Shenanigans like that got my Investigator vetoed.

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>>48004169
I didn't like this playtest. I am quite happy with the 3pp support its gotten though.

>>48004314
Are you aware that googledocs have been left open for comments here in the past?

DDS's Destruction book did, A bunch of others, Alteration did/is, as far as I know...

>>48004253
I probably wouldn't waste my time in /tg/ as a game designer. Most of the feedback is terrible and no one thinks they actually have to be responsible for backing their claims with real evidence, and even if some good feedback is provided, it's difficult to reference later. Based on the fact that Paizo is still the best-selling RPG in the world and DSP is in life support, /tg/s opinions clearly aren't even representative of a fraction of the actual players out there. Why would anyone come roll around in this filth and take abuse from a bunch of autists for no measurable benefit? Gareth at least gets his cock sucked on a regular basis.

>>48004253

>Almost never do we go into the nitty gritty on feedback, usually it's just "LOOK THIS IS BAD, LOOK AT HOW BAD IT IS, CAN YOU NOT SEE IT IS BAD?"
Are you one of those fucks defending Guardian Sash?

>Even when some math is posted it's never in the context of a complete build, just random ass numbers.
Why in the everliving fuck would a complete build be helpful? "Hey, with this ONE REALLY SPECIFIC BUILD, here's what I can do!"

>>48004339
>Paizo doesn't want "feedback"
>they want "praise"

This. Ignoring anon's whining. Paizo really can't handle criticism.

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>>48004222
>>48004253
(To continue from these posters...)
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not necessarily saying that my cohorts are entirely wrong in their opinions. I'm just saying that, as a freelancer from DDS, I can give some major respect-points to Dreamscarred for bothering to stick through and stay in this place, even if it's only two or three of them. Like >>48004277 said, other third-party companies and even some customers have said that they "lost respect" to DSP for mingling with the likes of us here. As >>48004294 said, the first thing that springs to most people's minds when you mention 4chan is /b/, the cancerous shithole that it is. But many more (like myself) gained a newfound appreciation at the guts that it must have taken to weather the constant storms of shitposting and shill-calling. Now it's just making me wish that other third-party or even first-party companies of all types of tabletop games would visit and get information from here.
>>48004298
You have a valid point, but it's not as common as everyone assumes.
>>48004300
>>48004307
THIS.


Anyway, thank you all for listening. I need to eventually get back to writing the Sphere that I know that /pfg/ will tear me a new asshole for doing, since it's busted from day 1 and is extremely-difficult to write for. Have a nice day, everyone. Be Excellent to One Another.

>>48004364
Busted strong or busted weak? Aka Conjuration or Weather?

>>48004355
I already know I'm gonna get flack for this, but

Endzeitgeist, like him or not, can make or break a 3PP.

Release crap, he will call it out on his site and your future sales are tanked until you either die or fix your releases and he recommends your stuff.

Release good stuff and positive review from him will generate 50+ sales overnight.

DSP has not had a good history with Endz outside Upsi and AM.

>>48004374
Or Darkness. Darkness sucks ass.

>>48004360
cuck

>>48004374
>weather

oh christ not this again

>>48004399
What? It's worthless in combat and nation-devastating outside of it. It's not a good sphere.

>>48004380
Or you do what most 3pp seem to be doing, and jump ship to 5e, whose 3pp review culture is far more decentralized, and Wizards is pushing the DM's Guild like there's no tomorrow. There's money in there.

>>48004335

>>48004277 here. I was trying to say that it's a cost of associating with 4chan, sorry if that was unclear. I have no idea how big the PR hit actually was/ is, but I imagine it could easily make a bad situation (acclimating to pfg) much worse.

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>>48004364

>>48004360
>>I don't have to justify shit to anyone, but they're wrong if they ask me to back my claims.

I wonder if anon is actively sabotaging DSP, like when everyone sucked Elric's cock over PoW:E and then tore him a new asshole when it went to print as the garbage it always had been.

>>48004380
Wait, people give a fuck what he has to say? The reviews I've seen from him either bitch about issues that don't exist or endlessly praise something for things the product fails to deliver. How is he anything but a laughingstock?

>>48004399
It's true though. Weather as an actual sphere is 100% redundant, it should've been a part of Nature.

>>48004433
Apparently he's actually making a living wage off his patreon, unlike DSP, and a bunch of 3pps are flying him to GenCon on their dime, so apparently a lot of people give a shit what he has to say.

>>48004433
Bulk, mostly. He did a ton of reviews until eventually he got noticed, and became THE homebrew guy, and now everyone trusts him, because nobody else is doing his job

>>48004449
Would've made the domain mappings much nicer, that's for fucking sure.
Water (Nature)
Fire (Nature)
Earth (Nature)
Air (motherfucking Weather)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LtYsahSguJ3ZL9FrrRSKkIbXpadawQBtUL6pJQCoAEk/edit?usp=drive_web

This is the buddy of the guy who made the Stregone class. I'm finishing up my Occult Detective archetype for the Occultist. Anybody want to leave some feedback on it?

>>48004426
>I don't have to justify shit to anyone, but they're wrong if they ask me to back my claims.

You don't need a complete fucking build to make a claim.

And a complete fucking build is useless because it's a ridiculously specific character.

>>48004452
>>48004433

He writes from a perspective that he knows is common among his fans, even if he doesn't personally agree with it, in order to better cater to his audience.

He's admited to me that after playtesting something his group will actively houserule it to have more skill points or fix broken wording if they like the mechanics enough.

Basically for that audience he is one of the important arbiters for whether something is worth their money.

Man. Sublime Chord was pretty good, this should be fairly easy to convert.

I should focus on a prestige class for each core class that would feel really cool to have back again and plays closely into it (or a new one that plays into some of their new abilities)

>>48004476
If you think a complete build is useless in playtesting... I'm sorry.

>>48004409
Oh, I don't disagree, but weather is one of the bigger shit storm generators for spheres.

>>48004489
I don't know about Pathfinder, but in my industry, a generic case is more useful than a specific one. Showing me one specific way things break is useful, but showing me an entire category that breaks is incredible.

>>48004497
>shit storm
Hey, now THERE'S a talent he can add.

>>48004500
That's not the mindset you should use with Pathfinder.

If you think it's weak, then make a build and see a few things
A. How much do I need to invest to make this useful?
B. Can this be useful in any situation?
C. If I wanted to optimize for this then how much would my build need to shift? Would it still be general enough to be competitive in Pathinder?

You can't answer A B or C by just looking at a specific feat, veil, maneuver, or whatever.

>>48004500
But if the specific build is representative of a general/optimized case, it's more useful. The test case for, say, your standard rage pounce or furry blender Mutagenic Alchemist or the suckitude of the Kineticist is useful beyond a Mr. Icy Hot or a Pun-Pun.

Even so, sometimes it's useful to do destructive testing.

>>48004476
Teamwork feats are useless and stupid... Unless they're on a Hunter or Inquisitor, at which point they're some of the best options outside of spells. Babbling about how something sucks outside of the context of what it looks like on an actual character is worthless. It doesn't help anybody, so it's no wonder when it gets ignored.

>>48003732
If they're not being paid, they're not shills, idiot.

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Does too much 'Bloat' choke a game to death?
Is this why DMs are afraid of allowing 3pp? Because it will open the floodgates?

>>48004524
>>48004536
>>48004538
Come the fuck on, why are we still thinking "It's a trap option for most characters, but if you put it on a hidden specific build, it's great!" is good design?

Yeah, that's 90% of Paizo options, but 90% of Paizo options are utter shit.

>>48004524
>> D) How much of a character's resources does this represent, and if it's a situational ability, does it make sense as a percentage of their available options.

>>48004543
Of fucking course it does. Hell, just Paizo content has been too bloated for years, which is why some poor fucks are stuck in core-only games.

>>48004544
I still fail to see how Guardian Sash is a trap option.

"Oh we're gonna go fight a bunch of Dawnflower cultists/Cyclops/Pirates/other shit that crits a lot tomorrow! I ready Guardian Sash"

"Oh we're gonna go fight a bunch of shit that dont crit! I grab something else"

Or is Hold Person a shit spell now too? I mean it only works on humanoids! It must be fucking trash trap option since it has such a limited scope!

>>48004543
Eh. I don't think so.

>>48004558
Yeah that's a good assessment too. I should add that.