Warhammer 40k General

first for generals are stupid

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>>47865090
Second for stay in your fucking lane then, faggot.

>>47865149
>there's literally no 40k threads on the board except for 3 generals and an adeptus retardes thread

>>47865030
>Ref_V7.pdf

Here is the updated link

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef.pdf

>>47865090
We don't need 40,000 threads on warhammer that last about 10 posts.

>>47865277

I'm sure we need all these other dozens of random threads with 0-1 responses though, and questfags who refuse to use the quest board.

>>47865257
very nice

>>47865302
>and questfags who refuse to use the quest board.

Mods need to stop pandering to them and just force them to use the other board. There are third party websites that archive as well.

First for daemon players are everything 40k players should be, any insult to their characters are by asshurt tau players that had their riptides murdered.

>>47865335
>but muh CSM

Anyone have any games planned soon? Whats the armies and point values? Got any tactics for the match?

Me and a friend will be doing a 2.5k match testing out 30k tomorrow. He is going to be playing solar auxilia and I will be playing mechanicus.

>>47865377
>plays marines: the game
>picks the two non-marine factions

>>47865436
>plays marines: the game

Marines and friends:The game
ftfy*

>>47865377
I'm starting up my first 30k army (IF + Knights) list at 2500 points this week. what are you bringing with your mechanicus? have any pics? I secretly wish I could afford mechanicus but buying plastic makes me feel less guilty.

Wait. A Styrix can make it into 40k without Volkite if it uses the Rad gun.
>you will never shoot beams of radiation at filthy treacherous peasants, guardsmen, marines, or aliens

>>47865377
>>47865468

>>47848427

>>47865377
I'm teaming up with my friend's Sisters to fight a buddy's Marine collection at 2k. Still haven't decided what to bring myself (I have Knights, Marines like everyone else, Chaos and Eldar) but it'll be fun regardless.

>>47865468
I don't have much 30k models other then three thallax and two castellax I picked up for 30 bucks from a lot. Most of the army will just be proxy models from admech, necrons, and guard vehicles.

+ HQ +

Anacharis Scoria [Xanathite Abeyant]

+ Elites +

Tech-Priest Auxillia [2x Flamer, 5x Rotor Cannon, 7x Servo-automata]
··Adept [Cortex Controller, Cyber-familiar, Enginseer, Magos Auxilia]
··Adept [Nuncio-vox, Reductor, Volkite Charger]
··Triaros Armoured Conveyor [Blessed Autosimulacra, Extra Armour, Hunter-killer Missile]

+ Troops +

Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [Enhanced Targeting Array]
··Castellax class Battle-automata [Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades]
··Castellax class Battle-automata [Darkfire Cannon, Siege Wrecker]

Thallax Cohort [Ferrox, 9x Heavy Chainblade, Melta bombs, Phase Plasma-fusil, 2x Photon Thruster, 9x Thallax, Triaros Armoured Conveyor]

+ Fast Attack +

Vorax Class Battle-automata Maniple [Bio-corrosive ammunition, Enhanced Targeting Array, Frag Grenades, 5x Vorax]

+ Heavy Support +

Thanatar-Calix Class Siege-Automata [Enhanced Targeting Array, Paragon of Metal]

+ Legion +

Legio [Taghmata Omnissiah]

>>47865568

>>>/trash/

Warhammer is warhammer, no need to be so anal about it.

>>47865621
they're more likely to get actually helpful answers there, the only one being anal is you

>>47865604
oh man. Scoria is to Primarchs what LeBron is to Steph Curry.

What aspect warrior should I get /w40kg/?

>>47865721
You should get Banshees.

3rd to 7th guy again. Digging the idea of blob platoon guard backed by arty. When taking regular infantry squads is it worth it to take anything BUT flamer for the special weapon? I hate the low range but BS3 seems like a waste for anything else. Should I mass my one special weapon per squad or put one of each in the two 20 man blobs Im planning on? Also how do people feel about Heavy Weapon teams? Again BS3 seems chump but I feel like Heavy Bolters or Missile Launchers could mitigate that.

>>47865594
Knights and Sisters work great together

>>47865658
Not asking for answers, just trying to spark talk.

>>47865743
2nd that. Be hardcore. If not though Scorpions.

>>47865302
>questfags who refuse to use the quest board.

I dont understand why they dont want to use the quest board. And if you go in one of their threads and ask them that question, you get a 3 day ban. Happened to me, and another anon in a recent /40kg/ said it happened to him too. I dont get it.

>>47865673
Really? I just picked an HQ at random.

>>47866050
You randomly selected the most OP character in the game.

>>47865377
1850 tournament at the FLGS Saturday.

My list is Eldar and DE. I'm bring a wraithknight and scat bikes as well as reaver jetbikes. Should be fun.

Lists I'm watching for are my buddy's SW(wulfen are strong) and a dudes Dark Angel Ravenwing. Also, there are going to be folks I've never played showing up so I'm stoked for it.

>>47865761
Hmm, I'll give them a go and see how it works out, though since he and I split the points equally I'll have two at most. I suppose I'll throw in some Inquisitorial shit and call it a list. Cheers anon.

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What is the proof chicken meme?

I honestly have no goddamn idea, and I've been browsing /tg/, /v/, /k/, /pol/, and /vg/ daily for years now

It bothers me that I am not fully educated in the lieu of this mysterious spicy meme

>>47866060
Should I replace him with one of the other named characters?

>>47866208
As far as I know it's just /pol/shit, and is only spammed here by faggots because of one time they and Carnac shit up an entire thread being retarded together.

>>47866208
its actually a rooster. It comes from russia from the Ukrainian takeover. Media was telling lies about the event so the urban youth were going around spraypainting roosters with the word proof underneath.

In russia the term rooster is our equivalent to faggot so bascially, chicken+proof= "Where's the proof, faggot."

Does anyone know when FW is going to release a Lion El'jonson miniature? I want to own the most badass primarch that isn't a drunken space viking mutant.

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>>47866249

>>47865621

Let's make WHFB stuff here too then huh retard? If you're going to have retarded generals then at least use them, especially when it's so ironic that just earlier some faggot was talking about how generals were better than having actual threads, yet you morons can't even use the generals properly.

>>47866250
Good to know there are some slavs who aren't swallowing Putin's cock so hard they're shitting it back out again, but that's not really /tg/ related. What's the proof rooster doing in our OP images?

>>47866286
>>47866249

>>47866270
Sci-fi =/= fantasy

GW retconned fantasy being the same universe long ago anon-kun.

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>>47865757
Flamers feel like the best option unless you want to toss 24" grenades, I normally don't spend much on upgrades for standard blob infantry. I'd rather give special weapons to Veterans, since they're basically BS4 special weapon squads. Using psykers (Primaris or pic related) to twin-link your heavy weapons can help deal with BS3. I personally keep Lasguns separate from my heavy weapons so I use HWS over teams attached to squads so they can shoot other more important things.

I'm riding on hope I can get decent rolls with Divination and orders to make the most out of IG platoons, since I can't just spend points to upgrade units to BS4.

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>>47866264
Forcing an unfunny and non spicy meme makes YOU the faggot anon

>>47866270
HH and 40k are closely related enough

>tfw your plasma dev squad wipes out an entire enemy tac squad in one round of shooting

>>47866308
>Forcing an unfunny and non spicy meme makes YOU the faggot anon
>post picture of angry marines

What's next, lamenters being a non-meme army?

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>>47866329
>tfw I really enjoy the Lamenters
>tfw any discussion about them will always be ruined by fanboys and edgelords

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Post one of your models or some manz, /40kg/.
My first attempt an an HoR Kill Team so far. Still to paint - 6 more Stormtroopers w/specials and a Sentinel, then it's complete.

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>>47866304
Not really. In Liber Chaotica, a fantasy scholar has visions of the 40K universe. He sees the War in Heaven and witnesses Abaddon's Black Crusades.

Also one of the Khornate fantasy weapons shown in the book is a bloody Chainsword.

Furthermore, the End Times has plenty of 40K easter eggs. Even before that a Draigo short story has him seeing the Warhammer world.

Further-furthermore, AoS reconfirms the existence of the warhammer multiverse (first mentioned in WHFB 6th ED). While the setting was forming, Archaon invaded and destroyed universes as a warm up.

>>47866286
Basically a shiter came around and started wanking off the tau and it started a small flame war between some anons and Carnac, the name fag.

Basically, the flames got dumped a bunch of gasoline when Carnac made some clames about the fluff that some people didn't believe.

Thats when slavposter happened.
He started spamming carnac with pictures of ms paint roosters asking for proofs and carnac kept only referencing books without actually giving any solid sources. Then, some other anons got in on the slavposting and started spamming theads with roosters asking for proof from carnac and carnac continues to wank off the tau.

In the end, the rooster was added to the general image some time shorty after and had its own little niche carved into 40k.

Honestly, I don't get why people don't like it. I see it as a reminder that if you are going to make a claim, you better have evidence.

Then again, most faggots on here just do the tumblr thing now where instead of focusing on the problem, they just shit on eachother and creating strawmen anon posts to an armies playerbase look like shit.

>>47866217
Nah you're good.

>>47866347
Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. Bandwagons have only so many seats before the wagon starts breaking down.

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>>47866375
Nice, those look awesome. Very clean, and I like the simple, but straightforward bases. Working on my second dreadknight this week.

>>47866446
Chickenposters are responsible for just as much spam as Carnac at this point. The fucking general image has been a point of contention ever since it was added to the point where we are now using different images in threads that aren't this one.

Even back then, the ebin chickenspam was just as bad as Carnac's faggotry, because the lot of you are just retards shitposting instead of having actual discussions.

I now find out after an hour that EpicRoster is a piece of shit and I have no way of sharing my list with you guys for feedback. I cant highlight anything on here or share it in any meaningful way. Im afraid to save it too since I lost the whole list that way last time. Is there a half decent free web based builder to use thats not Battlescribe?

Where should someone who knows little about Warhammer start with regards to the novels?

>>47866347
Damn those guys look great

>>47865436
>make a variant game just for marinefags
>start adding non-marine factions before all of the marine factions are implemented
>the non-marine factions are hilariously overpowered compared to the marine factions

>>47866375
>dem scions
>dem towel heads
Allot ah snackba indeed

>>47866446
>carnac kept only referencing books without actually giving any solid sources.

You history rewriting bastard.

I copypasted text from the books. I screencapped from the books and gave page numbers. You know what you shitposters said? "LAWL BIASED SOURCES. POST PROOFS". Don't pretend to have the high ground. Don't pretend that roaster is about anything but shitposting. It's not about demanding proofs as you say it's just about being spammed by shitposters.

>>47866532
Thanks man. Your work is pretty clean and crisp, I really like it. A+ on the bases too. It would be a pleasure to play vs. your models.

>>47866666
Thanks, but god damn, those sixes quints. Now my GK have to play you.

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>>47866661

>>47866661
why are you still here? Nobody likes you.

>>47866692
That's for proving my point for me.

Anyone got a leak of that new Dark Eldar getting started formation.
I kind of want to buy it.

>>47866600
I don't get it. Are you too stupid to just type it out? What's your issue with Battlescribe?

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>>47866442
>Archaon can now lay waste whole universes easily
>Shitmar and his merry band of useless chucklefucks from the old world are apparently holding their own against him
This is some hilariously bad writing.

>>47866743
>A bunch of gods can hold their own versus a single god.

>this is ridiculous.

>>47866709
I don't care if you don't like me. I have a duty here to up hold.

And I don't frequent /40/ generals. Have long has it been since an interesting release? /Aos/ is much more comfier. However, when I rarely decide to click and check what's going on in these threads, I find you guys talking about meh! It's uncanny. Everytime. You guys starved of topics that you just have to talk about chickens and little old me.

>>47866737
Avatar of Cocaine: +1 Initiative to formation models within 12" of the Archon.

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>>47866666

Damn, is Scionbro also SuperSatan?

>>47866771
>I have a duty here to up hold

Sounding dangerously like Barneyfag here. You gonna start reverse-image-searching things that pop up on your RSS feed to see if there are chickens?

>>47866764
>making an army composed of gods
>thinking customers will connect with this, and become invested

Super bad writing indeed.

>>47866743
You

what this guy said. >>47866764

The Mortal Realms span realities and within lays the key to final defeat Chaos or so the Slaan believe. Anyways, they are not actually holding him off. He BTFO all of them in his invasion and defeated the Pantheon of Order and scattered them to the eight winds. Then Chaos being Chaos, decided to turn on itself instead of finishing off what they started giving the good guys a tiny breathing room to reorganize.

>>47866813
People connect to Space Marine who are suppose to be demigods.

>>47866710
you need to provide the facts which you never gave. Your sources were bad.

>>47866846
What facts?

>>47866841
Space Marines arent 'supposed to be demi-gods'. Humans in the fiction refer to them that way, but only to get a point across. They dont actually believe they are deities.

>>47866304
Except Kaldor Draigo helped elves get through the garden of Nurgle in ET: Glottkin and the Warp is the same Realm of Chaos as Fantasy, you fucking retard.

>>47866910
BL Fanfiction doesn't count as canon.

eldar gfs: plausible?

>>47866891
People in the Imperium practically worship them and fall to their knees in awe and respect whenever they see them. They are the bloody Angels of the Emperor, the God of Mankind. That's ignoring the fact that they literally have the blood of LIVING GODS (primarchs) in their bodies.

The creation of space marines and their sires is marriage of science and magic.

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>>47866446
>>47866540
>>47866661
>>47866692
>>47866709
>>47866710
>>47866771
>>47866791
>>47866846
>>47866846


And this, >>47866208 is why you don't bring up the fucking rooster in this general full of autists.

>>47866910
>Draigo helped Elves in the Garden of Nurgle
Just shut the fuck up. clearly you are the retard here.

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>>47866920
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Love_Can_Bloom
confirmed

>>47866919
Shoo, retard, shoo.

>>47866923
Well I disagree with your literal interpretations, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it would be pointless to argue with you.

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>>47866920
No, they will be worst wives. 400 year arguments after you have died, will offer no emotional reciprocation, will expect you to do nothing less then perfection, constant judging for everything that you do, secrets near impossible to hide, will constantly think herself better then you, will complain that your living space is horrible and wish she was back on a craftworld, will probably leave you for some corsair riding a Har'lay Q'uin Davi'dison, jet chopper

>>47865335
I love playing against my friend who is literally the only daemon player I've ever met. Every other army that's more than a year old I've met one or two players. But him, he's the black sheep. He loves playing cheesy, sure, but he still brings bloodletting when daemonettes would do him better. He brings nurglings and doesn't just objective camp with them. But when competitive play is mentioned, he'll go full screamerstar and a daemon knight of tzeentch within range of a grimorie and cursed earth. He also plays sisters and 30k word bearers. Overall he's a cool guy.

>>47866929
Not him but....

A silvered giant knight who is a legend in the warp appears out of nowhere to help some dudes in the Realm of Chaos. Who could this be?

A few years back, Draigo sees a world that's suspiciously similar to the warhammer world while in the Realm of Chaos and decides to check it out.

Sometimes I think people pick fights just to keep threads from sliding.

>>47866978
Its probably just a silver Sigmar who's gold leaf got scraped off.

Also, in the warp there are some places which aren't complete hell landscapes. There was a comic where some spacemarines go on a dante's inferno type of quest.

Any further news on the Tau v Mechanicus/Red Scorpions Imperial armor? Or when it's coming out, anyway, I never payed attention to those past Siege of Vraks.

>>47867021
>Its probably just a silver Sigmar who's gold leaf got scraped off.

At that point of time Sigmar was inhabiting the corpse of Karl Franz.

>There was a comic where some spacemarines go on a dante's inferno type of quest.

You mean the Blood Quest comic.

It wasn't the warp, it was a daemon world.

>>47867039

no

>>47867039
Later this year, think Q3/4. Featuring updated rules for Imperial Titans, 30k Mechanicum in 40k and Culln in a Leviathan if you care at all.

>>47867013
This is how /Halo General/ stays alive. Though I do not think that this thread is the same case.

>>47866978
>I see an old world beyond the next horizon – a world that likely never was, where sorcery blew in the very winds and a self-made god-king was all that stood against the Ruinous Powers.

>Mayhap I would find the answer there, if I could find it at all.

-Advent-Draigo (short story)

Here is the bit from the short story.

"where sorcery blew in the very winds" = Winds of Magic/Chaos that flow through the Warhammer world.

"self-made god-king was all that stood against the Ruinous Powers" = Sigmar probably during the End Times or the Time of Legend.

"Mayhap I would find the answer there, if I could find it at all" = I am going make a cameo there and be awesome.

>>47867013
When there's nothing left to talk about then we can find something to fight about

So bearing in mind that this is literally all that I own, how terrible is this list? Anything nonsensical is probably me trying to copy this over from epicroster to battlecribe.

New to 7th ed and would love input.

Just getting into the tabletop, playing iron hands. Wat do /tg/? Ive inherited a bit of stuff from a friend who used to play. So far Ive got:

Captain in terminator armor
2x10 tactical marines
1 scout squad
1 assault squad
1 devastator squad
2 razorbacks
1 drop pod
1 dreadnought
1 ironclad dreadnought

What else should I get?

>>47867109
I know, right? What's happening to 40K. It's being starved of content. All we have to look forward to is "Curse of the Wulfen Part 2" months from now (Urrrrrrrgh).

It's getting so boring.

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>>47867142
Didnt realize all the goddamn rules on are on there by deafault.

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>>47867142
What the fuck?

Dude, we don't have time to read this.

>>47867149
I always recommend more dreadnoughts.
Sternguard
A better HQ

>>47866978
>I see an old world beyond the next horizon – a world that likely never was, where sorcery blew in the very winds and a self-made god-king was all that stood against the Ruinous Powers.

>Mayhap I would find the answer there, if I could find it at all.

-Advent-Draigo (short story)

Here is the bit from the short story.

"where sorcery blew in the very winds" = Winds of Magic/Chaos that flow through the Darksouls world.

"self-made god-king was all that stood against the Ruinous Powers" = Lord Gwyn probably during the The Age of Fire or the The Coming Dark.

"Mayhap I would find the answer there, if I could find it at all" = I am going make a cameo there and be awesome.

>>47867151
Well now, long ago the releases were far less frequent than that and we got by. I do wish they'd hurry up and deliver on or else kill the Tzeentch Daemonkin meme, though.
/40kg/ is just quiet because nobody's mentioned Tau or Eldar yet, and the bitching about the new Start Collecting boxes has abated as we wait for their formation bonuses to leak.


So, /tg/, tell me about the last game you played. What is fun? Who was your MVP, and what did they do?

>>47867173
>Ratlings have laspistols

I genuinely didn't know that and I play guard.

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>>47867173
Needs more tanks.

So i'm prepping for a heralds of ruin campaign in the weekend and it's using the legacy lists. I'm doing an Inq/guard list and i need some advice for the list/army building.

What kind of inquisitor should i bring?

I want to use the death corps of krieg notable regiment rule because hey stubborn and my veterans have the same WS as they have BS, but the two points per model is sorta pricey to me, but then again the mismatched ws/bs bothers the part of my brain that likes things to be even.

I'm thinking of getting an bullgryn with the maul and brute shield and using the Knight questor with some 40k bits glued to him as his model, kinda tom strong style. Is this a good idea, and is having the bullgryn a good idea, or is 60-70 points too much?

What should i be focusing on bringing in this list?

>>47867178
see
>>47867173
I realized my mistake friendo

>>47867149
You need dreadnoughts anon, Iron hands Dreadnoughts are fucking beastly. You don't stop collecting dreadnoughts until you have an entire company of 102 Dreadnoughts. You need to have 6 "Tactical Squads" of 10 dreadnoughts each, 2 "Devastator Squads" of 10 Mortis Dreadnoughts each, 2 "Assault Squads" of 10 Ironclads each, a Chaplain Dreadnought for your chaplain, and your choice of a Deredeo or a Leviathan with a Legacy of Glory to serve as your Captain.

You also need to get SMASHFUCKER PRIME, he's absolutely mandatory for any proper Iron-hands collection.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Chapter_Master_Smashfucker

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>>47867215

The last game I played was a 10,000 pt apocalypse battle I organized as a going away present before leaving for business school...that was 8 months ago. Damn.

Imperium won, barely. MVP was probably the stormlord full of enginseers that kept repairing all its hullpoints every turn.

>>47867233
Lets pretend I was super interested in a infantry march backed by arty list. Where should I go from here besides omgwtfbbqhaxorzWyvernz?

>>47867246
Leviathans can't take legacies of glory.
Contemptors would be a better idea for a captain.
And It Will Not Die still doesn't save dreadnoughts from not being very good.
I would know.

>>47867173
Type your list out so that it's easier to read. Drop all the extraneous upgrades on everything. Learn how to not be a fucking retard when using your list builder.

>>47865335
daemons as an army are everything an army should strive to be in 40k

>creative synergistic options
>unafraid to have crazy rules or specializations
>each respective group of daemons has a unique and effective playstyle

>>47867258
I want to play with you sometime anon, your army is so great.
except for the imperial knight which is just camo spray painted interior

I'm still jizzing from when you showed your murader destroyer all those threads back.

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>Thousand point SM vs SM game
>I had infantry and 2 dreadnoughts
>He had a predator Executioner and a Vindicator

>>47867215
I just got back from a game at FLGS today that was a 2v2. Space Marines and Orks, versus Necrons and Daemons. Hammer and Anvil deployment, with just "Let's just have fun and kill each other" as the mission. Originally we were going to play maelstrom, but somehow everyone forgot to put the objective markers down, so we changed the mission retroactively since everyone was already deployed.

The game was single-CAD only, everyone brought a minimum of 4 troop choices. No formations, and the ork player brought the space 0din codex for the sake of it. Also it was 1850 points per person, so a 3700 point game. We ended up going with it because we all just finished games previously at 1850, and nobody wanted to change up their lists substantially, since we all already had models spread out across the store.

The game was massively fun for my first time going against daemons. It ended up rapidly devolving on turn 2 into a massive clusterfuck of 9 or so melee combats being sent off simultaneously. I wouldn't change any of the experience for any reason, it was just pure casual fun.

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>>47867282
No can do friendo. Like I said, if (you) read, its literally everything I own barely shunted up to 1500~
Thanks for the feedback, Jack : ^ )

>>47867173
Hoo-boy. Let's start with the stuff that's straight up illegal.

You have the wrong number of guardsmen in most of your squads. Command squads get 5, infantry gets 10, including the officers and sergeants.

You have veterans with more than one doctrine. I'm not sure about this one, but for the most part it's unnecessary even if it IS legal.

You have 3 HQ's; you can only have two max.

Battlescribe should have pointed most of this out to you.

>>47867215
D Thirster slayed a wraithknight, some carnifexes, and a few hive tyrants.

>>47867322
Win or lose hes a massive faggot.

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>>47867306

I ran out of time to finish painting him. If you look closely you'll also notice half the chimeras don't have painted tracks, and some of the flyers don't have canopies. I was airbrushing through the night right up until the game that morning.

>>47867271
> Leviathans can't take legacies of glory
Oh damn, I guess that makes sense though, seeing as how they weren't around for most of it except maybe The Scouring.

I will agree though that a Contemptor and any one of its variants would be ideal for your Captain.

>>47866347
Is that... A Lementers jetbike?

>>47867422
He was a cool guy, I killed just everything else in his army and almost killed the predator but then my techmarine got shot 20 times and died.
He died in the last 4 wounds though, holy shit I made a lot of armor saves in that game. The vindicator and executioner were basically the only things that killed my units.

>>47867370
Like I said it's probably me copying down improperly, for what it's worth epicroster is better at dropping lashings when you add special options and I assumed this did the same. Also totally thought Tank commander was Heavy for some reason. I don't know why and feel silly. I think I'll pop Lord Comissar down then and add a second one to attach to each 20 man infantry blob. I really do appreciate pointing that out, I'm already making improvements!

>>47867461
lashings=lasguns, apparently

>>47867441
Also you forgot about siege dreadnoughts.

>>47866347
Lamenters are pretty cool. They're like the Salamanders of the Bangles, though ironically they have less "black rage," heh.

>>47867451
*just about everything else in his army

>>47867544
>they have less "black rage,"
newer fluff has had it reappear, worse than the other BA chapters

>>47867566
Fully worse than other BAs? I knew it came back, but thought it was just a little.

File: Lamenters.png (3MB, 1227x1129px) Image search: [Google]

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>>47867593
They got it bad.

>>47867471
I don't really see the purpose of taking Siege Dreadnoughts, as they offer nothing that the other dreads do better.

>>47867689
They look cool

>>47867689
They punch buildings better than regular dreads do. Isn't that something you've always wanted in your army? A house-punching robot?

Stormlance Battle Demi Company - 1215 points

Raven Guard Tactics (kek)

Librarian - 135
Mastery Level 2
Armour of Shadows
Combi Flamer

Command Squad - 280
Bikes
Storm Shields
Gravguns

Tactical Squad - 85
Plasma Gun
DT: Rhino - 35

Tactical Squad - 85
Plasma Gun
DT: Rhino - 35

Tactical Squad - 85
Plasma Gun
DT: Rhino - 35

Devastators - 200
4x Plasma cannons
+5 Marines
DT: Rhino - 35

3x Land Speeder - 240
Multi Melta
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Librarian camps out in ruins with devastators for retardedly good cover saves, Land Speeders JSJ with the formation bonus.

TacSquads use their METAL BOXES to dump the plasma guns into rapid fire range and then re-embark on the same turn, avoiding Gets Hot by targeting objective holders.

Combi Flamer on the Lib is to at least moderately protect against the inevitable charge on those guys, though anything that can actually do that will be a priority target.

I'll probably ally in some scions and/or inquisition to fill out to 1500.

>>47867358
There's no point in running at 1500 if you only get there by loading your list up with pointless upgrades and illegally sized units. If you just want to shitpost, at least make it more obvious from the onset.

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Just picked up 4 Start Collecting Militarum Tempestus, plan on running the ground assault formation.

I have been wanting these guy for awhile now. The new models are really top notch - I almost like them more than space marines, like they are more Operator than Marines.

Anyway, I want to use them to supplement my Grey Knights as inquisitorial storm troopers.

How would a detachment like that work?

GK + Coteaz as an inquisitor detachment alone + Scion formation?

Also are they even feasible in 40k?

Deep strike, move through cover, 4+ armor, AP3 rapid fire weapon, can take melta and plasma.

They seem versatile.

>>47867861
you pay for that versatility, and you'll be feeling the S3 on the base guns more than first impressions might tell you

good as allies, lacking as a full army

>>47867861
They're okay. But they lack long-range, high strength shooting, which is something you already need more of as GKs. Tauroxes and Valkyries can cover this slightly, but they're pretty pricey and Tauroxes are very squishy, especially in a Ground Assault formation where you need to ride up to get the most out of them.

I run a CAD with two command squads, one with melta and one with plasma. In a 900 point game with my SM + scions + Inquis vs Necrons, I got dunked on because I had very little that could even wound the high Toughness and save-covered deathbots.

>>47867906
No, I'd never take them as a stand-alone army but they just look so cool I want to find a way to use them as allies.

What are their strengths as allies? Holding objectives?

>>47867861
They're a hail mary army to the extreme. They either work or they don't and the orders they get help them out a lot. twin-linking the whole squad; Sniper ap3 lasguns, Rending, those orders can definitely push their versatility. Sadly the command squads only give 1 per squad so just stack up on more command squads. ALSO, the Taurox can help you get into range for those measly 18 inch hotshot guns they have so keep them either standard or go with the missile launcher variant if you want it to provide some fire support. ALSO ALSO, the Ground Assault formation makes all the things you normally take just better by making the squads in the Tauroxes get twin-linked and pinning just for disembarking so always take that if the points allow.

In short, they're like Imperial Dark Eldar with access to a slew of allies to fill in they're weak points and with a bit of luck and planning you can do pretty damn well, or pretty damn horribly. There is no middle ground.

>>47867965
Volley guns are great for clearing MEQs. Plasma and melta command squads are reliably good deep strikers when coupled with a servo-skull Inquisitor.

>>47867861
They can hate on normal infantry, but are weak in a lot of regards, T3 being an outstanding one, 18'' rapid fire makes them awkward to position, the unit cap of ten doesn't feel like enough bodies, they're fluffy for what they are, but they're expensive humans.

>>47867861
They're good against MEQs, but not much better than guardsmen against anything else. I'd run one or maybe two of the box formations, but that's it. You're better off with GKs or Sisters or Deathwatch or Red Hunters for the backbone of your fluffy Inquisitorial army.

>>47867965
moving fast and putting special weapons on target

Orders should be the missing link that makes them more than suicide squads, but the tempestor can only issue one a turn and has to be within dicksucking range to issue them.

Kinda begs the question, why'd they get their own book?

So I decided to look up the GW website, because I'm interested in buying a knight, but all of their price listings for some reason are in 'DKK' What sort of money is this even? How do I get it to display American Dollars.

>>47868030
So they could sell another book, duh.

>>47868030
Money.

But also it lets you take them individually instead of needing a guard CAD to do it, and they get their own orders (but only the command squad can give them for ~reasons~. not even commissars)

>>47868053
Change the 'Delivering to' button at the top of the page.

>>47868030
Supplement to the AM codex? I hope they expand it in the future, I like playing as the elite forces of the Imperium that isn't some kind of power armored super soldier. If the GW website is anything to go by, the scions have been a best selling box set for a while now.

>>47868066
Thanks!

>>47868030
Because they have a very different play style then other imperium armies.

8e Scions wishlist:

>Devastator Equivalent
>Stealthy/Fast Close Combat Specialists
>Stealthy Snipers (maybe with Inquisition hellrifles, S6 AP3 36")
>Chimeras

>>47867783
Can't take a Librarian in a Stormlance. That's a very expensive Land Speeder formation that will never get to fire non-Snap Shots.

>>47868007

They aren't even that good against MEQs. If you run the numbers they actually only do about as well as marines in a straight shootout...fuck it, I am looking for excuses not to work so I'll just math hammer it here.

Scion vs Marine

Scion hits 2/3 of the time, wounds 1/3 of the time, marine gets no save if out of cover.

2/3 * 1/3 = 2/9

>So, it takes 4.5 shots from a scion to drop a marine

Marine hits 2/3, wounds 2/3, scions saves 1/2

2/3 * 2/3 * 1/2 = 2/9

>Marine has about identical killing power with a bolter

Now, put them both in cover. The exact same thing happens, but now the marine gets a 1/2 save and is better.

Now, put them in melee combat. I don't need to math that out, you should know what will happen.

What if friendship was magic?

>>47868184
Derp, you're right. Thanks for noticing.

Um, why would Land Speeders be snap shooting tho?

>>47867861
As suicide squads with small units and special weapons they are very strong.

As a full force, they are delicate. They rely on their orders a lot, but people are obsessed with using the command squads as suicide squads for some reason even when relying on orders. Handle with care, but you will feel like a champion when you win.

Is a terminator heavy army actually completely useless, or just not very competitive?

Anyone willing to share their 1.5k points KDK lists? Need some ideas.

>>47868191
then i'd be a barbarian cause I don't have any friends.

>>47868242
not very competitive unless you are doing grey knights

>>47868244
Chaos lord with jump pack, kor'lath, maybe a plasma pistol heading a slaughtercult
gorepack
soul grinder
skull cannon
bloodthirster maybe?

Do you want daemon allies? Formations?

>>47868320
I was planning on doing a KDK only list, since my two friends are doing lists that are oriented around Nurgle and Slaanesh.

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>>47867258
>MVP was probably the stormlord full of enginseers that kept repairing all its hullpoints every turn

That's hilarious

>>47868333
How good do you want to be? What do you own already?

I don't play KDK, but my brother does. The trick is to pin people down with fast moving assault units like flesh hounds and chaos spawn, use bikers to take and hold points and bloodthirsters to kill big enemies.

>>47868186
If we use orders with the scion we can improve their shooting a bit. The sniper order kicks their chances up to 1/3, and if you stack that with Ground Assault or Airborne Assault formations they get twin-linked as well.

Twin-linked 8/9 *1/3 = 1/4

Sniper 2/3 * 1/2 = 1/3

Both Twin-linked/Sniper 8/9 * 1/2 = 4/9

The marine getting twin-linked with the bolter just has a 1/3 chance to kill the scion. It's still not good for the scion but they can compete in a shoot out with marines. You just have to go through more hoops to do it.

>>47868359
I only own Space Marines, this is intended to be our "let's just fuck around" secondary armies, since the three of us have maximum WAAC armies for our main lists.

>>47868333
two suggestions

slaughtercult + gorepack with some heavy support as previously suggested, or look into getting a murderhorde and gorethunder battery if you're more into just doing a Khorne army. I'd definitely suggest getting a daemon prince, skarbrand, and Karanak regardless of just using KDK, they're fantastic options that missed actually being in the codex but nonetheless synergize really well for regular daemons.

>>47867979
vehicles are relentless, thus are always shooting at full range and at full salvo?

>>47868375
Okay so you are basically stuck with CSM, Berzerkers, and Terminators if you have them. That is... rough. Those are just about their worst units.

as someone who is unfamiliar with the current space marine codex, would it be viable to have a force multiplier commander with just a bolter or combi-weapon? and of course he would keep his helmet on

>>47868400
Yep, so you can fire both of the Taurox Primes guns after moving cruising speed since it is also a Fast Vehicle. If you actually want to keep the volley guns, give the mini-gun as well for 10 points and slap infantry squads around with 14 TL shots at str 4.

>>47868418
for shooty tooty why not go with the cheap stormbolter relic? its equal to 3 extra marines at 24" and marines punch through AV10 in melee anyways.

>>47868410
No no, I don't own actual CSM, just regular Marines. I can proxy but I'm planning to buy the stuff I'll need for KDK around my birthday.

>>47868399
Alright, cool, thanks!

>>47868432
because I am unfamiliar with the codex and didn't know about these things

I think a commander wearing a helmet like everyone else and using a gun like everyone would be fun, and make him less imposing to the enemy so he can keep supporting his dudes, and maybe not cost too many points either.

>>47868242
They're really expensive and require a really expensive transport to get across the table, and aren't really better armed than Marines in Power Armor. Assault Terminators are sort of okay except that this is the shooting edition and assaulting is shit.

>>47868183
I wouldn't wish for a chimera

>>47868418
If you want a force multiplier-cheapish HQ, consider a librarian.

>>47868501
fair enough

can't beat the force multiplying power of invisibility, especially for the price, though it lacks the charm of a very ordinary looking commander.

I also have an appreciation for non-straight-forward ways of using units, but sometimes these things just don't work.

>>47868448
Some general notes: Don't forsake gifts/relics in the regular daemon codex, they make your daemon princes and bloodthirsters much scarier units to deal with. Same goes for heralds. Blood tithe is an incredible mechanic with game changing potential. Abuse the FNP on the slaughtercult, push for more bloodletters/flesh hounds/skull cannons/daemon princes/thirsters, use kor'lath and get the most out of your Apotheoses.

Also maybe look into taking a forgehost from the decurion if you find yourself struggling against lists that are heavy in flier usage

Whats up with Striking Scorpions and their chainswords? Does not seem like very eldar like weapon

>>47868495
>>47868183
I imagine if MT got their own Chimera it would be something like the Taurox Prime.

>Gets Fast, BS4, more weapons or more turret weapon options
>AP3 Lasgun Arrays because they're Scions

>>47868196
They're AV10; the first time something meatier than a lasgun shoots at them, they'll be jinking.

>>47868562
>but instead of the full treads the Chimera Prime has two pairs of mini-treads like the Taurox

>>47868550
Why?
There are more eldar units who have them, Storm guardians for example.
Eldar chainswords used to be very common, back in the earlier days.

>>47868589
land speeders can take heavy flamers right? How economical would it be to take a bunch of those?

>>47868609
Then they won't get to fire anything.

>>47868609
The issue is less that you took Typhoon's and more than you took more than one speeder in the squadron. Just take one and use cover/LoS to your advantage.

>>47868643
I checked the rules again and that is really stupid

>oh no target is is invisible can't just burn everything that'd be a waste

>>47868643
unless you are a smartass who wouldn't know how to deliver them in the first place :D

>>47868690
I think he meant, that you cannot fire template weapons when you jink.

>>47868704
template weapons can't be used for snap shots period, except for overwatch with the wall of death rule

What's a good SM list for HoR Killteam?

>>47868591
It would be pretty funny if Scions could only get more ground vehicles if they had a minimum 4 tank treads.

>>47868744
Lets put 4 tank treads on both legs of a Sentinel. BAM! Sentinel Prime.

>>47868591
Nah, it'd get a full set of wheels. To complete the irony.

>>47868766
>rollerskating sentinels
yes

>>47868606
Its very crude weapon,fit for SM or some shit

>>47866841

Calling a space marine a demigod is probably just a fancy way of describing their combat abilities on the battlefield. Calling a soldier who walks through the enemy and slaughters thousands a "god of war" is pretty apt, but it doesn't mean he's Ares or Mars.

The Primarchs were close to being demigods.

>>47868785
The best part? It goes from Walker to Fast Vehicle and keeps move through cover so it can finally be somewhat useful. Hell slap another gun on it and call it a day.

>>47868242

They're not useless, they're just not worth the points. You'll basically just be playing with a few hundred points disadvantage given today's average power level per point.

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>>47866938
>a third party nod, which has a generic quote, and a picture of a Farseer from SAIM HAN
>totally makes LCB canonical.

I swear to god, you people are complete retards.
That shitty fanwank ain't canon.

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So how has chenkovs revenge been working out for you lot?

>>47868766
>8E Militarum Tempestus is IG with Fast, Prime and BS4 slapped on everything

Sounds pretty good. Will Chimera and Sentinel Primes get an AP3 Multilaser too?

>>47869034
I don't know, the one thing I truly want are command squads that can give 2! orders per turn rather than one. Also 24 inch hot shot lasguns but that's not here nor there.

>>47869059
I'd rather not have a limit on special weapons, or at least have it so they don't replace their lasguns.

>>47869067
Give em access to 3 special weapons a squad like Veteran guard squads. That'll do it.

>>47865485
That's not how the kit works. The i-rad cleanser is a small arms weapon grafted to the claw replacement melee option that is taken in place of the normal reaper chainsaw. It doesn't replace the main gun arm where the Volkite Chierovile is mounted.

I-rad cleansers are okay, but they're just slightly killier flamers. The toughness reduction rule almost never comes into play. They've yet to make a knight-scale irradiation weapon... but it would be interesting to see what something like that might look like.

Anyone play Kill Team?
I'm going to show some friends the game this week and figure Kill Team is the best option since I only have Dark Eldar and a couple of units of Orks (Nobs, boys and Copters) and Craftworld Eldar (banshees, guardians, vyper and hawks).
Gonna get them hooked on the small game and hope they gradually work their way up to the actual game.

Whats your opinion on Start collecting Eldar? Its a good start for eldar army?worth money?

>>47868418
SM HQs aren't really force multipliers like IG and Chaos Daemons HQs can be, they're mostly made to go punch shit (Chapter Masters, Captains, Chaplains) or do magic (Librarians).

If you want to take a relatively anonymous Space Marine HQ to buff your army, 30k is more your thing, with various Consuls unlocking army building options.

Is there anyway to add O'vesa on battlescribe without having all of the eight?

>>47869689
just add them as a Riptide as the appropriate wargear i guess, but im pretty sure the bonuses that The Eight get only apply as the entire formation

>>47869652
>worth money?
Yes, you save a lot and get rather useful units.

>Its a good start for eldar army?
I am tempted to say, yes. The units in there are rather good. But as you may have heard eldar are sometimes referred to as too good. This includes Jetbikes, when armed with 3 scatterlasers or 3 shurikencannons. So you might want to avoid being that guy.

Only thing I would do differently is building a Nightspinner instead of the FirePrism. (Should be doable, the kit is for both.) While this might leave you unable to play the formation, it is IMHO the better choice. Also you can equip the farseer with either spear or sword. You want the spear. For a starter army you would need another troop choice.

How have people found grav kataphron units? About to buy a unit of 5 and was wondering how to to keep them alive and how they should be played.

>>47869750
Thanks. I dont like low model count of this pack. I would much more prefer it the pack contained some basic unit,anti vehicle unit,some special unit like warp spiders and commander.

What should I buy first if I dont buy this pack? I like models and fluff of wraith units. Are they good?

>>47869652

All the "getting started" are worth the money. All eldar units are great, but Bikes and mounted Farseers are somewhat of a trademark "absolutely disgusting" good when put in the right unit size and armament.
The fireprism is, like everything else in the eldar book, good, but I wouldn't class it as good as the bikes and farseer, but thats just me. Besides, with some conversion skills/buying bits, you could easily get some more value out of that fireprism. Slap on some magnets and run it as ether a transport, or a falcon on the side of being able to take it as a Fireprism.

Haven't heard anything of what the formation does, but it matters little when it comes to the Eldar as they are so good baseline it hardly matter. Saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if they got a really good formation, as they are "best" at everything in this ed as it stands.

Personally I'm more curious on what the DE formation does to be honest, and if it can contend with the other "getting started" boxes.

>>47869764
I put a tech priest out front to tank with a stasis field and the rainment of the technomartyr

>>47869799
I'd avoid Wraithguard, as they're overpowered and won't make you any friends.

>>47865377
Me and two friends are doing 350pts tomorrow to teach one of them the game

>>47869764
Kataphron Destroyers are really fragile. They're just tough enough that small arms aren't too much of a bother, but anything punchier than a Heavy Bolter is going to rip them to bits. Also, they aren't fearless, and their low unit size means Ld tests often see them flee. It can be worthwhile sticking a Techpriest Dominus with a scryerskull in the unit and putting him up front, just to tank hits on his 2+ armour save and give them Ld10.

Still, fragility aside, the amount of damage they can do with their Heavy Grav-Cannons is staggering, so they're well worth using if you can keep them alive.

>>47869823
My first match was at a games night vs an eldar

1000 pts, he brought 6 Dscythe wraith guard, 6 scatter bikes and a wraithknight and tabled me in 2 turns, one shotting my stealth suits on turn 1 and then one shotting a riptide that I only brought to the table because i saw he had a knight

afterwards he told me to look up some tournament meta comps for tau and downscale them for 1000pt, mfw

File: tau-crisis-02.jpg (220KB, 612x800px) Image search: [Google]

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GW hires you to balance the Tau codex, without just across the board nerfs.

What do you do?

>>47869833
My favoured tactic is taking an Aegis line and using shroudspsalm at least once to get a dank 2+ cover save. Hey presto you have a 30" "Don't you fucking dare go here" bubble.

>>47869764
I play them in my war convocation where they are a bit different but not much.

Few pointers:
1. Min units are way to go. Always skip the plasma and go for the grav. They dish out so much fire that even units of 3 are enough to bring the pain and can spread they damage more easily.
1.1 This also minimizes the casulties. If someone wants your kataphrons dead, they are going to die. T5 2W and 4+ wont save them. Only way you can keep them alive is a) stick them in cover with stealth/shrouded b) stick them into reserves c) use their ability to move&fire to LOS yourself from other units other than your target.
b) I use Blasters as my secondary weapons but Flamers are fine, too. A bit more trickier to use but can really work wonders when they get their chance to shine. But I just like my small extra damage output up to 24".
c) you can also keep them alive by sticking your magos into the unit. Give him Stasis Field and Raiments of Technomartyr. Then you can tank wounds, repair the unit if needed and when faces with overwhelming firepower, go to ground and enjoy your 2++. Raiments also mitigate the loss of damage-output and makes the unit scary against invisible/flying units.
(Fun fact: unit of 3 gravphrons snapshooting with rerolls causes ~3,3 wounds to jinking flyrant. Ouch)

>>47869857
Drop the cost of devilfish, give the aux's better defined roles and the obvious nerf bat to the larger suits.

im looking at starting up with 40k and ive got a bit of money together, but im hung up between choosing Tau and painting them like the farsight enclaves (even if i dont play them as an enclave army all the time i like their aesthetic) and a Black Templars Space Marine Chapter because im a sucker for cool stuff even if im paying more

what are some things i should know before getting too heavily invested in either of these armies, or into 40k in general?

>>47869857
lower the cost of the vespid strain leader
increase the cost of riptides
increase the cost of signature systems
player must choose interceptor OR +1 BS for the drone net formation
allied advance cadre requirements changed to 3-4 kroot and 1-2 vespid units
remove fireteam special rule
increase shas'ui ML and TL upgrade, but make the ML networked

>>47869875
Nothing feels as good as when your opponent smirks as they declare a charge with their TWC upon which you open up with 18 grav shots (BS2 if you were expecting wolf fuckery and took the Raiment) and 9 flamer hits. He failed his charge after casualties. And then laugh even harder if you used the re-roll to hit for ranged the previous turn.

>>47869885
>40k in general
It's only fun if you play regularly, make sure you have this
You will never stop at 1 army
It's a fairly expensive hobby and your army can change every edition

>Armies
BT aren't great this edition, and painting black + white could get boring
Farsight Tau are great if you like mechs, like me, but don't be a cunt and spam OP units over and over

>>47867796
I realize now Battlescribe is just a piece of shit like everyone says, since the other two builders I used removed a lasgun automatically when I added an option that replaced it. I see the HQ problem though and will fix it by demoting Lord Commissar and doubling him. So besides the Veteran Doctrines, which I admit are filler, what would you say is a useless upgrade in there friendo?

PS thanks for the wave, Dave : ^)

>>47869875
why raiments, doesn't he come with a 2+ armour anyway and flamers are cognis?

>>47869916
BS2 grav for snap shots, fucks up FMCs and flyers as good as most dedicated AA guns.

>>47869823
Regular Wraithguard aren't THAT bad. Wraithcannons are only one shot at a 12" range. They're excellent at killing vehicles and monstrous creatures but can't handle infantry. In practice their damage output isn't all that different from a similarly-costed unit of Fire Dragons, they just trade the mobility of Battle Focus for T6. It's the D-Scythes that push them into the unplayably good catagory. No-one outside of a tournament should be using those.

And Wraithblades, the CC variant, aren't overpowered in the slightest.

>>47869870
The problem is that 30" isn't enormous, so you really need to keep pushing fowards, and tying them to an ADL means the opponent is going to be able to evade their shooting by hugging LoS-blocking terrain. Its a valid tactic if you're playing against a very aggressive opponent who's going to steam right towards you, but very risky against anyone else.

>>47869914
>doesnt know how to click buttons to make list smaller
>battlescribe is shit

sure, it probably is shit if you were lobotomized at birth

If everything you own barely comes to 1500 points, maybe do 1000 point matches instead and have alot more leeway with what you can do

>>47869857
Stipulate in the agreement that I must also be allowed to alter how the entire game works from universal special rules to the assault phase. You cannot fix anything in 40k by patching a codex, including the codex itself. The codex system is fundamentally flawed and the game will continue to be a shittarded unbalanced disaster as long as GW jews people into buying several rulebooks for one game.

Otherwise I refuse.

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Rolled 15, 12 = 27 (2d20)

Hello

>>47869723
>just add them as a Riptide as the appropriate wargear i guess
Illegal.

You cannot add the wargear, since he is equipped with a signature system, and Riptides cannot take signature systems.

And none of the eigth can be fielded on their own anymore, you need to take the entire formation, since it is the only place you'll find them.

>>47869932
Wraithguard still aren't something I'd encourage new players to go with, they have a bad stigma associated with them.

>>47869814
>Personally I'm more curious on what the DE formation does to be honest, and if it can contend with the other "getting started" boxes.
The models look solid, so I am definitely picking it up for kill team /HoR games. I am not too familiar with DEldar, but it seems to be pretty solid picks (by DEldar standards anyway).

How many points do you think I could get out of 1 starter box?

>>47869975
Archon with Shadowfield, Agoniser, Blast Pistol: 135 points.

9 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster. Sybarite w/Haywire Grenades. 102 points.
--Raider w/Dark Lance, Shadowfield, Splinter Racks. 90 points.

3 Reaver Jetbikes, 1 Cluster Caltrops. 63 points.

Spitballed from memory, so the points might be a bit off here and there, but that's how I'd kit them out.

>>47869975
Around 300

>>47869851
If he brings a lord of war, roll on the edcalation warlord table. With a bit of luck, it can make your warlords unit really hard to kill with a D spam list, since all rolls of 1 or 2 does nothing, for the scythes, that is 1 to 3, and they can never get the "ignores everything" result.

Another gives perfect deepstrike within 5" of his lord of war. Deepstrike several units around his LoW and wreck it and everything else around it before they get to act.

You also get +1 to sieze the initiative.

It made my local eldar player ragequit once, and then he tried to ban it because "those escalation rules are overpowered as fuck".

>>47869912
i didnt intend on just spamming battlesuits if thats what you mean, id probably end up buying a riptide and have a handful of crisis teams because id more than likely buy two or more of the start collecting kits just because they almost break even with just the crisis team without even considering the fire warrior team and the ethereal.

but that being said, i tried playing tau using other army units as replacements to "try before i buy" i guess, and against his IG i lost like 2 or 3 times now in part because i felt like i had nothing to really counter his 4 leman russ tanks except for a hammerhead (only had one in one of the games) and he had his demolisher (?) s10ap1 pie plates and felt like i had to spend the whole damn game trying to keep away from them because they could easily wipe a pathfinder, crisis suit, fire warrior team, and has a very good chance of outright crippling a hammerhead in a single shot due to only 13 front armor.

this was at the same time that his tanks had 14 front armor, so Heavy Rail Rifles on broadsides and the majority of weapons i had would need a 6 (if they hit at all) just to be able to get a glance let alone a pen. this is just my experience and there are probably a lot of things i didnt understand such as the dynamics of how to attack properly.

>>47869975
The only thing I don't like is the awkward Archon attached to it. He forces the warriors to only have 9 men so he can ride with them which means one less blaster or splinter cannon for them. The archon is absolutely wasted in a shooty unit.

>>47869857
Vespid are FMCs, and their guns have an alternate melta profile. But they only shoot snapshots at ground targets while flying.

Kroot get HoW, I4, and on a turn they charge the enemy squad must pass a strength test or they're reduced to I1 (I liked DoW1 suck my dick). Alternately, they can trade that for +1BS, pinning on all shots, and permanent shrouded. Increase points accordingly.

All vehicles except piranha are 30 points cheaper, but disruption pods are 15 points more.

Breachers gain +2" to each of their profiles, and a rule allowing them to move in the shooting phase, after shooting. Access to pathfinder drones (which are discounted across the board).

Pulse rifles are changed to S5 AP5 30" Heavy 1 (I liked DoW1 suck my dick). Fireblade gives squad relentless, Ethereal Storm of Fire gives one squad Slow and Purposeful.

Ghostkeels are made to be a force multiplier that scouts ahead of your army, granting a buff to other units shooting at nearby enemies but losing shrouded (and invisibility) if friendly units are within 12". They can forgo shooting to gain aforementioned invisibility.

Every suit that's currently a MC or GMC is a walker or superheavy walker instead. All D weapons are removed. Rewrite the entire decurion and both flyers.

>>47870007
>>47870010
Nice, seems solid. And those models should make for a nice HoR kill team too I'd wager.

>>47870042
I thought about getting a unit of incubi anyway, they look baller as fuck. Maybe throw a WWP on the archon to deepstrike them somewhere intimidating.

>>47870072
Good idea, I'm thinking about doing the same but with Grotesques for body guards instead. Just wish a squad of them wouldn't cost me over 100 maple bucks.

>>47870058
>All D weapons are removed
Go fuck yourself. Tau have 0 access to S:D outside of superheavies, so unless you meant "remove strength D from EVERYTHING", you can go fuck yourself with a warhound titan.

Other than that, it sounds like good ideas, honestly.

>>47870097
>so unless you meant "remove strength D from EVERYTHING", you can go fuck yourself with a warhound titan.

I did. But I'm only allowed to rewrite Tau, so I fix 'em as I sees 'em. S:D belongs in Apocalypse.

Changed my list from yesterday slightly:

Pask + squadron x1: MM, lascannon, exterminator, camo netting
Primis: ML1

PCS: flamer x3, heavy flamer (in vendetta)
PS1: autocannon
PS2: autocannon
Vet1: chimera, x3 melta
Vet2: chimera, x3 melta
Vet3: chimera, x3 melta

Vendetta

Tech priest dominus: raiment of technomartyr, conversion field, volkite blaster, macrostubber

Kataphron x6: x6 heavy grav

ADL: quad gun

How does this list look for competitive play?

>>47870007

If lacking in points, you could option for another agoniser here and there on the unit Sybarite or Arena Champion.

Other than this is also how I would kit them. But knowing the forces from the other boxes, you could also option to take another anti tank weapon on the bikes if need be.

>>47870108
Seeing as Chimeras only have 2 firing ports and Veterans outside a Chimera are as good as dead, you might as well reduce the meltas to 2 and spend the points on snazzing up your Dominus or making your psyker ML2

>>47870104
With the exception of Knights (which I don't personally use), I absolutely agree.

S:D creeping into everything is just a pain in the arse, and I hate it.

>>47870097
>>47870104
i dont know about FW stuff but isnt the ONLY source of S:D weaponry for the Tau the pulse blastcannon on the KV128 and even then its only within 10"?

that being said i dont know how that actually stacks up against other factions because i dont know how many sources of D weapons and what ranges each faction can use them

>>47870156
made pysker ML2 and grabbed melta bombs for the vendetta mounted PCS. It's either that or give the kata's the flamers.

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Are there no formations outside of the CAD that allow you to take Crusader squads? I can't find any in Codex: SM or Angels of Death, or any rule that says they count as Tactical Squads for the purposes of Formations.

>>47870199
Nope.

In fact, the FAQ recently said that you CANNOT use Crusader Squads in place of Tactical Squads.

>>47870163

Playing a knight for a bit, especially if you run a crusader, will show you what D is -meant- to be there for: It's because without D it's no more deadly in assault than a Dreadnought a third of it's cost, which already gets a lot of 10/2 attacks.

My beef though, is well, obviously there's too much access on non-Superheavies for a start. D-thirster is one thing, fucking Eldar D quite another.

But also that the execution is -terrible-

My suggestion? Make it count as S12 for most purposes, and ignore invulnerables, FNP and Reanimation outright on a 6. That way it ID's T6, cracks vehicles like an egg and can be saved against most of the time.

Does mean you need a different mechanic for stripping multiple wounds/hull points in Titan scale battles, but fuck bringing Titan scale damage to models smaller than a fucking scout Titan anyhow.

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>>47870207
So Black Templars have gone from being their own codex to not even being really compatible with the current codex they've been subsumed into? And also ignored when GW released Angels of Death? smfh

>>47870248
7th Edition fucking sucks.

>>47870168
There's the Destroyer Missiles on it as well, but there's only four, they're one-shot-only, and require a Markerlight to use.

>>47870244
The problem with S:D is that, like all other rules, what should've began and ended as a special case has become standard. Power creep consumed it because GW can't into balance, and now if your unit doesn't have D it can't claim to be the killiest, bestest unit ever (which every unit claims to be).

>>47870248

Okay, but what did they even gain from their own codex in the first place, two named characters, variant tac squad and a special land raider?

>>47870270
Where are my W6, 6++, S:D Crusader Squads, GW?

>>47870268

Those should be limited more, as maybe an assault 1 missile launcher instead.

Firing four at the start of the game to wipe out key centrepiece models automatically is half the reason that thing is bullshit. I don't give a rats ass if it can D all game so long as it gets one shot in a turn.

>>47870271
Cool units that are fun to play and you can actually use.
Sword Brethren are probably the most swagged out Space Marine units to have ever existed.

>>47868461
Look into the Raptors

>>47870244
>But also that the execution is -terrible-

My biggest beef with St:D is the instant-destruction result of rolling a 6. Having a one in six chance of killing anything but the biggest Superheavies with a single shot is too much. It replaces strategy with dice luck.

I'd reduce it from D6+6 wounds/HP, no saves of any kind, to D3+3 wounds/HP that force succesfull saves to be re-rolled. So most conventional units are still dead, but Superheavies will still need some finishing off, and you'll usually have at least a slim chance of saving it.

Been out of the loop for a bit. Deldar player.

Any rumours in new deldar/sisters/CSM? If not what's currently being rumoured to come up soon.

Heard they released cargo containers or some shit?

>>47870313
I'd just remove the 6 result entirely.

>>47870314
>Any rumours in new deldar/sisters/CSM?
None. GW is punting out shitty terrain and upgrade sprues for races which already have lots of vehicles and options instead of updating the armies which actually need it.

Up next we have some naff boxed games based around existing Flyer models, then we're getting back on the Age of Sigmar train for another few months. Apparently, Chaos MIGHT be getting some Tzeentch stuff (Thousand Sons, Daemon Magnus) towards the Autumn, but there's no word on a new Codex.

>>47870270

Suggestion, split D into three tiers.

Tier 1 is anything smaller than Reaver scale, no exceptions. None. No exceptions. No, not even that, no exceptions.

This level counts as S12: Wounds everything on 2+, instant deaths toughness six, much easier time blowing through vehicles. If a 6 to wound or pen is rolled, you take that wound no matter what would have stopped you from taking it.

Tier 2 on Reaver scale: Counts as S14, auto-wounds/pens on a 5+.

And finally, Warlord scale: Counts as S16, auto wound/pen on 4+.

>>47870314
I imagine you have heard of the FAQ update ongoing? Jinking now causes occupants to snapfire.

>>47870271
I'm not entirely against them being part of Codex SM, I'm just saying that they should at least fieldable in Gladius Strike Forces (or something similar). Or, that they be given more attention in Angels of Death than just a warlord trait table. When they're given a unique Troops unit that isn't even useable with any of the Troops-oriented formations in their own codex, it feels like GW is just snubbing them.

The old codex had lots of cool shit that would be great for Chapter Relics (like the Orb of Antioch), and they're such a fluffy and unique chapter that they deserve their own formations.

>>47870329
Fucking Gw..

Wait they're bringing a primarch to 40k? Isn't that gonna be hella op?

Also fuck AoS, I don't care how many normies give GW profit and never even inbox their starter kit.

>>47870337
Yup. Rip deldar even more. Because they totally needed a nerf lol. Looks like last remaining strat is talos/grotesque spam

>>47870314
Sisters still languish in obscurity, and CSM and DEldar aren't much better.

>>47870346

Yeah, the heresy books and rules have been sucking off the Primarchs too much for us to expect them to suddenly have sensible rules for them now.

I mean, they actually had the raw retardedness to make mortal Primarchs T6, so presumably a Daemon one will have to be about T8.

>>47870356
Yeah. I'm known as the 'Deldar' player at my local GW, been having fun painting up harlies recently for a nice change. Seems like I only collect the obscure underpowered armies, becsusebtheychsge the best fluff.

>>47870042
>one less blaster
no, the cannot take another at 10. You could however get a second blaster by equipping the archon.

>>47870058
>Vespid are FMCs
thats too strong they would get a shiatload from that, starting with AP2 in melee

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>>47869148
That's okay I didn't want to murderizie everything with radiation anyway.

>>47870268
destroyer missiles are like s8ap2 or something

>>47870369
>obscure underpowered armies
>the best fluff
Pretty much, that's why I play Sisters and Death Korps.

>>47870388
Unless they're fired via a Markerlight, in which case they become St:D.

>>47870388
You can spend a markerlight to make them str D.

>>47870265

Personally I think its the community that fucks up most shit.
Of all the miniature wargames out there, there is no one thats so full of "moral boundaries" than 40k. You cannot even follow the rules as written, because then your a rule lawyering faggot.
It all boils down to whats "acceptable" at your local meta.
>Its ok to win, but not win big
>you can play what you want, but "that list"
>If you loose its all down to poorly written rules
>If you win, your army was simply better
>You can bring formations, but not "that" formation.
>If you bring only bad stuff, you're an idiot or lore fag.

It all boils down to some sort of silly mind game, where you and your opponent tries to "guess" what could be a good match for a game. Carefully threading the path so not to step over any un-official boundaries and be branded a WAAC player.
The game must end close one in one aspect or the other, if you don't want to be blamed a WAAC player/bad player. And if you refer to the actual rules as written in to many instances, you're not only a bad sport, but also a rule lawyer for knowing the basic of the game. You can bring formations, but just not "that" formation. Its not ok to cheat, but you must let your opponent cheat a little (quarter of an inch here and there, let him do some shit he forgot earlier and so on), otherwise your a bad sport, same goes to you, this simply to show everyone around you what a "good fella" you and your opponent are.

I have about 20+ years of miniature wargame in the sack, and I have played a lot (granted many of them where GW, but still), but I have never played a game where there are so many un-official morale rules, and where the players have such a hard time following the basic rules.

>>47870330
That's actually worse than just making S go up to 20

>>47869962
ah I understand now, I was watching a video of a list that had just O'shara and O'vesa but that was 6th edition

cheers for the clarification, rip my dreams of solo earth caste rapetide

>>47870391
I don't know how strong/weak they are, but I wouldn't call DKoK obscure.

>>47870383
>Eüsserste Verzweifflung
Now that's some old ass spelling right there.

>>47870408

It might be, but it's certainly infinitely better than D as it stands.

>>47870407
It's an indictment of just how awful GW's rules actually are. Everyone agrees that they badly need house rules to make their games playable, but no-one can agree exactly what house rules should be used.

And the end result of this is Age of Sigmar, where GW just admits they don't give a toss and leaves the fanbase to argue it out among themselves.

>>47870163
>With the exception of Knights
Why?

Why do you want this retarded shit in your games? Keep it to apoc point levels.

Hell, the knight itself should never see play outside of apoc in the first place, even the smallest ones available.

If it is any kind of superheavy, it stays in apoc games, ie 3k points or more. Same with all S:D.

>This one unit can have it, but nothing else can!
Kill yourself.

>>47870427
>Hell, the knight itself should never see play outside of apoc in the first place, even the smallest ones available.

Seconded.

One friend bought a Knight, now a second wants a wraithknight and a third is talking about a stormsurge just to keep up.

It's the worst and I hate it. It's gonna be the thing that makes me finally quit 40k after all these years.

>>47870435
They'll be very heavy investments points-wise on their parts.
Bring some dedicated counters and lay it low as soon as possible.

>>47870417
Explain.

>>47869937
The other two fucks I'd be playing with regularly (Sallys and CSM) won't play anything under that without a lot of coaxing. I'm just curious if arranged like that my force would be halfway decent. If you had to pick and choose then for 1k what would you suggest I HAVE to bring?

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is taking a daemon prince at 500 points a cockhead move?

>>47870375
Shit, was using space marine logic. Night shift wrecks my brain.

>>47870460
does it have wings?

>>47870460
Only if it has Wings. A FMC at that points level is going to be nearly impossible for most forces to deal with.

>>47870338

>they're such a fluffy and unique chapter that they deserve their own formations.
>CC marine chapter #372

>>47870460

Depends on the build/how you use it, honestly.

No wings, 100% okay. Wings and act as jump infantry to get into assault? Powerful, but might be okay. Flying to avoid getting shot back? Fuck right off. Nurgle for shrouded jink? You're a powergaming cunt.

>>47870451
With contemporary orthography, it would be spelled "äußerste Verzweiflung" ("outermost", or rather, "most supreme" despair)
The related picture spells it "eüsserste Verzweifflung", which has to be a centuries old spelling.

>>47868950
absolutely hilariously well so far.

DS in under my sister playing friends Voidshield and wrecking exocists without end is comedy gold.

Also makes the local Chaos and daemon player twich with barely contained rage everytime he loses Soulgrinders, fiends or transports to it.

And even if they don't kill anything they are a roadblock that can pull you backward with charges.

>>47870420
That's not hard. Don't pat yourself on the back for being less shit than GW.

>>47870474
Then they should at least be able to use existing formations.

>>47870469

A Jump Monstrous Creature is potentially dealable. Any actual flyer below 1000 is cunt tier though.

>>47870464
yes, but not a psyker. I'm planning to just take a minimal 220 point prince with CCW, power/armor wings and just jump pack it around and assault since 7th killed swooping close combat princes. I mean a DP from the CSM dex of course. then maybe some cultists and spawn or a vindicator.

What's up with superheavy walkers not capping out hull points at 10? Wounds cap at 10.

If you think about it, a monstrous creature on a scale larger than Scout Titan is currently unbuildable. Sucks if Nids ever get a bigger beast than the Lowerodule.

>>47870477
Thanks, Anon.

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I don't want to start a new thread, but I made this pic. Dunno why

>>47870402
>>47870406

uh, asking for a friend but what point threshhold would make a KV128 socially acceptable.

>>47870422

I agree to some extent.
We have to remember that all of Warhammer/40k was a fan based game, where the authors had in mind that players would play teams they found emotionally attached to. Where the lore of the game was brought to life with these battles. Where the players would respect the moral boundaries as a fact, simply by not breaking the fluff.
It has always been this way, the difference I see from when I started is that the public demanded tournaments, and GW replied. This broke the game to something it was never intended for, and the casual players with their fully pained and lovingly cared for fluff friendly lists where simply obliterated by the new age of players, fielding efficiency above lore and love for the miniatures.

Today, people takes it for granted to be a competitive game, when in truth, its not. It was shaped that way by the players, who demanded it at the time. And in all respect, AoS is something more close to the core of what Warhammer/40k was meant to be. It might not be something we as a fan base want (I sure as hell don't!), but that doesn't change the fact that AoS is closer to the prime aspects of GW´s original game idea than 40k in its current state.

So yes, badly written rules, sure. But it is still the players who have tried to make the game something it is not. And thats ok by all respects, the problem being, is bound in all those moral boundaries still holding the game back.
So for any gaming group, its either to say "Yes, everything goes, we all play this game with respect to the RaW, and we make a tournament game out of it, where we all have a chance to cheese it out!" or "No, we respect the old ways, and any list breaking fluff and the game is not accepted. We all play the game as a PART of the hobby, but its not the core element, everything is to be painted... and so on and so on".

>>47870019
>Attacks made against the warlord with D weapons suffer -1 to the result, minimum of 1

thats pretty sweet actually, but in the match my warlord was darkstrider who ended up getting wailed on by 8 wraithguard, -2 overall is really nice but it wouldnt have saved him

I also realize in hindsight that he brought 8 bulky wraithguard in a 12 capacity vehicle, so not only was he using a brutal list vs a new player, he also cheated

Even playing tau I can see why people don't like eldar and tau players

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>>47870511
That's Franktacular.

Why can't GW just see the grass is greener and hire rules writers from WMH or something

>>47870521
iffy at 1850. Fine at anything over 1900, unacceptable below like 1800.

>>47870538
wmh a shit

>>47870521
are players at your LGS WAAC fags or not?

if not: 1750 is pushing it, 1850+ is alright
if yes: 500pt and up

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>>47870525
Smack him across the face, and claim his mother as property.

Newfag here. What's WAAC?

>>47870538

Because WMH is a game with models made for it. GW makes models, and has games created for those models.

>>47870563
win at all costs

basically dont make your own armies, just look up tourney winning comps and copy them/downsize them and abuse cheese whereever you can

>>47870563
W(in) A(t) A(ny) C(osts)

>>47870563
Code for Eldar and tau players :^)

>>47870524
It wouldn't be so much of a problem if the game didn't vary so wildly in tone and effect.

Can Space Marines win decently without Grav spam, bike spam, Skyhammer, or any of the other cheesy shit lists?
I just wanna play like 5th Edition again.

>>47870346
>Wait they're bringing a primarch to 40k? Isn't that gonna be hella op?
We have FAR more broken shit than primarchs, so I don't see the problem

>>47870586
It depends on the meta but yes. Yes they can.

>>47870563

Means you run marine formations.

>>47870382
Add in that they don't have smash, then. Same as the Coldstar suit.