Horus Heresy General /hhg/

>>47390271
I love Fire.

t.Salamander.

>>47390298
Could not agree more.

>>47390322
I love Blood
t.World Eater

Moves we got so far:
>The Emperor: Great Crusade
>Horus: Let The Galaxy Burn
>Vulkan: It's also a hammer
>Leman: Overwolf
>Lucius: Eternal Jobbing: makes Lucius lose automatically
>Perturabo: 10,000 Years of Decimation
>Autek: Lunar Lander
>Scoria: Entropic Beatdown
>Fulgrim: Maru Skara
>Ahriman: All is dust
>Mortarion: The Reaper's Scythe: Rams the enemy with a starship
>Angron: The Bucher's Nails
>Cruze: Doom of Nostromo
>Lorgar: Ruinstorm/Transfiguration
>Corax: Pre-Dropsite: The Deliverance and post Dropsite: Nevermore
>Lion'El: Loyalty's reward
>Dorn: The Walls of Terra
>Guilliman
>Pre Ruinstorm: Honour and Glory/The 500 worlds
>Post Ruinstorm: Preternatural Strategy
>Post Heresy: Codex Astartes
>Ireton MaSade
>Agathon's Might: summons helpers to aid him
>Lotara: Fire the Ursus Claws!
>Caleb Decima: Reductor Unleashed
>Alpharius: I am Alpharius
>Regular AL Legionary: Power Dagger
>Ferrus: Hands of Fate
>Magnus: Two wrongs don't make a right
> Sanguinius: Angel's Tears

>>47390387
What does Malcador get?
Greatest Sacrifice?

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>>47390420
Yes.

>>47390387
>Khan : "Sickest Burn" or "I hear you do strange things to your warriors"

>>47390556
As in gene modify them.

>Khan->smart.

repoasted from old thread
>>47388353
I just want assault bolters anon, so that the entire unit functions for the purpose of getting into melee to use the venom spheres. because there is beauty in synergy and simplicity of function... :^) or are you next going to claim that learneans are well synergized with conversion beamers too? : ^)

>>47390438
>Kelbor: Dark Mechanicum
>Summons helpers from every branch of the Mechanicum that followed Horus into his descent into heresy

>>47390387

>the reapers scythe
>Unsheathes scythe
>teleports behind you
>nothing personal, astartes

>>47390621
I too want assault bolters, but that'd be Storm bolters and that stuff was simply not invented just yet. Luckily, it's the AL we're talking about, and if they managed to get into the MkVI closed beta they can get their Aloha pattern stormbolters
>are you next going to claim that learneans are well synergized with conversion beamers too? :^)
I'm not a fan of Conversion beamers myself, but that thing behaves pretty much like a +1S overpriced volkite charger at volkite charger range, so I wouldn't say it stands out either. Maybe if you're footslogging them, and it won't outperform a single missile launcher either.

>>47390814
In the last thread we've established he teleports naturally and he rams a space ship into you as his ultimate move.

Don't know if a Sunday evening is a good time to ask for list/starter advice, but can always repost this another time I suppose. Been pondering where to go with the idea of a somewhat armour-heavy loyalist NL force, wasn't happy before, had another idea.

2000 points (because I understand that's as small as 30k sensibly goes, otherwise would be looking smaller for a "starter" army). ROW: Pride Of The Legion.

>Praetor (paragon blade, bike, iron halo, meltabombs) - 180
>Goes with outrider squad (counts as 21 models for outnumbering purposes)

>Centurion (chainglaive, bike, meltabombs) - 90
>Goes with other outrider squad

>10 Veterans (2 plasma guns, chainglaive on sarge) - 240
>Furious charge
>Rhino - 35

>10 Veterans (2 plasma guns, chainglaive on sarge) - 240
>Furious charge
>Rhino - 35

>6 Outriders (2 power swords,chainglaive on sarge) - 225

>6 Outriders (2 power swords,chainglaive on sarge) - 225

>Sicaran battle tank (heavy bolter sponsons) - 155

>2 Medusae - 310

>2 Laser vindicator - 260

>Total - 1995

So, how bad is it? And/or, what noob mistakes have I made with the rules?
Incidentally, demoting the praetor to another centurion, the vets to tacticals, and using a CAD saves 225 points, if that's an option anyone was wondering about.

>>47391083
My main issues.
>Vets should drop the plasma guns for assault weapons. You don't benefit much if your opponent charges you and you can't charge after shooting the plasma guns. I would instead add more power weapons, hits harder on the charge or I would give them sniper. Personally I prefer the former.
>Medusas are probably overkill, I rarely think "I really need two demolisher cannon shots per turn on the same unit." I would drop one and reinvest some of those points into another scoring unit of some sort, currently your list has fairly few scoring options.
>I dislike the two vindicators for the same reason I dislike the two medusas. What I would do in this case however is drop the sicaran to spread out the vindicators. Not enough light vehicles to make much use of the sicaran while the points saved by dropping the sicaran and one medusa gives you 305 points, great for adding some terminators or vets for more scoring.

Honestly I wouldn't be worried about light vehicles with your list, even without meltabombs your vets have krak grenades, combined with the option for power axes or mauls you should be able to kill AV 10 or 11 rear vehicles fairly easily.

>>47391083
I like the idea, but why no vindicator instead of Dusas?

Is Alexis Polux as cool as his rules sound?

>>47391083
>>47391256
A wild Spartan/flyer appears. How does the list deals with that?
I'd say the list needs a flyer of its own
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHTr8nofsAM

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> Decide I want to use Despoilers instead of Bolters
> eBay loads of extra Chainswords from the Assault Marine kit
> Wow Tigrus Pistols are expensive, but these guys need to be perfect!
> Lovingly craft 20 with resin shoulders
> Realise that all the Chainswords have MkVII arms attached

Is there an easy way out here other than amputating all of them? I only have Bolter-holding arms spare so the poses are fucked, unless I split the arms in shoulder-MKIV vambrace-Chainsword hand.

>>47391351
He's cool if you like the whole self doubt thing. Also if you consider BL canon then he turns up at Macragge and tells the Ultramarines that they can't fortify for shit.

>>47391457
Say it was artificer made, paint it so.
>It needs to be perfect
A true EC.

>>47391457
Liquid GS the cracks in and add a bit of plastic to the wrist to make that bit that sticks forward.

>>47391496
I meant more how does he actually impact the table from game to game.

But that is funny.

>>47391532
I don't play fists and have never played against a fists player who fielded him so I can't help much. That said he is pretty cheap and has some cool gimmicks, I'd say a rather good HQ looking only at his rules.

>>47391256
I had been worried about how few boots on the ground I had, you're right, I should probably up those for scoring objectives. (Keep forgetting only Troops score in 30k.)

Multiple vehicles was redundancy, mainly, with most of my anti-AV14 in heavy support felt it could be easy to shut down. Will have a rearrange. Is a squadron of 1 laser vindi, 1 demolisher vindi, with a machine spirit (to split fire) a stupid thing to do?

>>47391263
That would save points too.

>>47391256
Forgot to ask, how many power weapons (including the sarge's chainglaive) is probably about right for a 10-dude veteran squad?

Hey guys, super new to the tabletop game.

What should go in a fluffy EC list of 2500 points? I want to include Fulgrim for sure, and Palatine blades.
I also want to take his special rite of war- Maru Skara
Just no idea where to start.

>>47391772
I think 4-5 is a good number, dont go ham otherwise they become more expensive then they should.

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>>47391938

Fluffwise, EC can do most things but you'll want to avoid anything attrition-y. Your dudes want to master all forms of warfare and will have the capacity to play any kind of list. However the Legion was always few in number and your ego should forbid you from wasting lives.
Avoid artillery and 20-man blobs if you can help it. Save points for wargear, elite units and anything that can move quickly. Apothecaries are also a big thing for you.

As for tactics, your LA and equipment is strongly oriented towards a close combat list. You are equipped to win assaults in one turn through a combination of I5/AP2 overkill, stacking CR modifiers and then catching the opponent in a Sweeping Advance.
All of your Sergeants should have Artificer Armour and a melee upgrade as standard. Ideally you want to use Power Spears because you have the rare advantage of non-Unwieldy AP2, and you can expect to be fighting a lot of Challenges.
You also want to be making the charge and so invest in delivery systems. Spartans, Dreadclaws and Kharibdii are all solid options, as are fielding anything with a Jump Pack or Bike. Avoid Cataphractii in favour of Tartaroii.

Maru Skara should obviously be built with the intention of Outflanking units, so pick units that can deliver a one-shot kill. Combi-weapons are your friend here, as are Support Squads spamming Plasma.
Avoid sending units into Outflank that cannot be supported. Don't dribble 3 units out only to have them Fury'd, commit to it and get some faster elements up there for Turn 2.

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What does an average World Eater army look like at 2000-2500 points?

I'm looking to get my first legion army and I want an idea of what to pick up for a basic starter army.

>>47391938
At that points limit your army should have:

Ways to deal with AV15
Ways to deal with Flyers
Ways to deal with 20-man blobs
Ways to deal with a Cataphractii deathstar
Ways to deliver your dudes to where you need them. Maru Skara will help about half of your army, you must not forget the other half

Luckily for you, Dread talons count as a single unit on deployment and can deal with MCs and Spartans by themselves, and EC are one of the only legions where hot Despoiler on Despoiler action isn't such a gamble and a Sweep advance is more probable. I may thing of something else.

/HHG/, what's the best way of dealing with an army with lots of dedicated Land Raider transports without using Fast Attack choices?

As in, Heavy weapon squads don't really cut it. I was thinking of grabing a billion Laser Destroyer Vindicators, but their cost would mean I'd be better off bringing Spartans of my own.

I'm trying a Reaping list, if it helps, but I won't be really using antitank HSS or Veterans.

>>47391449
>A wild Spartan/flyer appears. How does the list deals with that?
Spartan can be dealt with by two laser vindicators. Flyers can often times just be ignored or avoided through proper maneuvering and cover. Either way the extra medusa and sicaran wouldn't have helped with either of those, at least some extra vets with power axes could help kill whatever is inside the spartan.

On a personal note I don't really give a shit when an opponent brings a spartan. 300 points and its only weapons are some quad lascannons and a heavy bolter. Whether or not the Spartan dies doesn't matter to me, if it is immobilized I can safely ignore it, if it unleashes its cargo I will just kill its cargo

>>47392324
Grav rapiers, haywire their shit to death.

Say, anyone got a good idea on how to acquire one of those veletaris power axes? I need it for a Kharn conversion I'm thinking of, but don't really want to blow the bucks either with FW or Z. Ebay's been a bust for the past month of so I've been looking.

>>47392200
Great post, there's just one little thing: Support Squads can't be outflanked through Maru Skara since they're not Elites or Fast Attack. They can be through Fulgrim choosing Master of Ambush, but then you have to roll for reserves to get them in.

>>47393274

Can you nominate an Apothecary and then attach to a Troop?

>>47393477
The rules aren't completely clear, but the wording on The Hidden Blade implies that it's a normal unit whereas Apothecaries are an edge case "technically a unit but doesn't work like other units".

I wouldn't build a list around it unless you're prepared to be a WAAC, rule-bending That Guy.

>>47393274
Fulgrim rerolls reserves by himself, so there's that.
About apothecaries, I don't quite agree with >>47393477 and >>47393641. While it indee says that "apothecaries may be taken as a single elites choice", Maru skara outflanks elite units and their attached ICs, not elites ICs and the units they're attached to (which by the way, apothecaries are mere non-independent characters).

But I dunno.

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Reworking my World Eaters to represent my fluff for them better, post-Bodt, late-heresy deal. Haven't done any highlights for the red yet, but this is what it looks like so far. Is the red backpack too much? What would it be otherwise, because they were originally blue?

>>47394812

That looks really neat. I even like the little red stains all over the white armor, which could either be bloodstains or a hasty and sloppy paintjob.

>>47394962
Bloodstains, guess it was a little more obvious when they were blue. I want to get some bloody handprints on some of them. Test of my freehand skills.

>>47395103

You'd want the bloodstains to be differentiated from the red of the armour though. As is they look the same.

>>47394812
Looks tasty, I'd say keep it just white and red as white, red and blue would be a bit of a clusterfuck.

>>47395171
Eh, I used the Blood for the Blood God paint, it's a little lighter than the pads/backpack.

>>47390322
>>47390356
I love skin
t.Night Lord

>>47394812
Mind telling us the fluff for them?

>>47395223
I love bikes
t.White Scar

>>47390322
>>47390356
>>47395223
>>47395371
I love egyptian kings
t.Thousand Son

>>47395384
I love walls
t.Imperial Fist

>>47395439

I love Chaos
t.Word Bearer

>>47395497
I love black
t.Blackshield

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>>47395532
gonna enrich dat ass

>>47395367
Nothing particularly unique or interesting, just a group of World Eaters who have basically entirely descended into madness toward the end of the Heresy. My list places heavy use on 20 man squads and multiple Dreadclaw'd Red Butcher units. Gahlan Surlak is there, so is Kharn usually. If I'm not taking Kharn (because I'm using Angron) I make the tacticals Inductii. Basically, it's an army of Madmen. The only potentially sane units are the Spartan driver and the Contemptor-Mortis. There's a Leviathan too, but we all know every single one of them are nuts. I suffer severely on anti-vehicle, but at 3000 pts I have 43 power armored models (21 are an assault squad and a jump Praetor), 8 Red Butchers, Angron, Gahlan Surlak, a Spartan, a Kharybdis, a Leviathan, and a Contemptor-Mortis. Ravening madmen all (except maybe Surlak)

>>47395745
>implying the spartan driver didn't jump out to join the melee years ago
>implying the spartan isn't driving under the force of it's own fury

>>47395786
The angriest machine spirit.

>>47395745
>Implying the Contemptors aren't crazy too
>>47395825
Aye

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I made this just for you, /hhg/

>>47395745
>>47395786
>>47395825
>>47395845
Your niggas need to chill out.

>>47395885
So you're /v/-tier memer? Kill yourself.

>>47395885
>that One Punch Lion Man
Someone throw this chick with the Sharks. Don't care if it's the psychic ones or the blimp ones.

>>47395885
I preferred it when you were gone

reminder to not reply to name/tripfags

>>47395970
What if they're actually useful?

>>47395984
They can be useful without their name or trip

It's just attention seeking

>>47395889
What do you mean? Killing loyalists is how they relax.

>>47396012
It's useful because you know which posts to not read.

>>47396035
>implying they know the difference between friend or foe

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>5000 points of EC
>dont even own a superheavy
>still buying more stuff
>saving up for a mastodon
>Considering starting another legion

Someone please stop me

>>47396198

The Rabbit hole never ends. I have over 200 unbuilt, unpainted Mk IV Marines for whenever I finally decide on a Legion.

>>47396198
Hide your wallet.

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>>47396253
>for whenever I finally decide on a Legion
I got you covered bro

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1 C'tan Shard, 1 Leviathan Dreadnought, my Harrower is accepting new challengers.

On another note, should I give my rhino a Combi-weapon or a Heavy Bolter?

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>>47395741
I love watching Vulkan suffer
t.Night Lord

>>47395970
I've wanted to namefag long ago, but I realize how easy it is to fuck it up. I mean, I like getting (You)s, can't blame it for that. But it'll be a shitstorm no doubt.
>>47395885
I agree with your table.
Hotpockets, plz don't kill.

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Mastodon, how good is it really? I kind of want to make a list around one when they come out. Being a World Eater helps alot.

What would you put in the thing?

As a world eater I'm thinking 18 guys, apothecary, praetor, and 2 cortus contemptors.

What are you guys thinking? Its expensive points wise but it seems like the perfect payload deliverer, and some legions love that shit.

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>>47396519
I love IT'S ALSO A HAMMER
t.Vulkan

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>>47396626
I love being angry
t.Angron

So I'm going to be joining an escalation game league thing for people wanted to get into 40k or start a new army, staring the 'get started kit' or similar and adding on.

I chose Guard, not because I like guard that much, but I've been thinking of getting into 30k and the Solar Auxilia is the army I like the most.

So after the get started kit what models should I be looking into that are good in smaller scale IG and can either go into Solar Auxila, as reasonable proxies or bits for good conversions?
Russes are obvious, but I don't want to just buy Russes.

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>>47396672
I love everyone
t. Sanguinius

>>47396672
I love blood and violence
t. Angron

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>>47396691
Stormtroopers, because SA are 30k's different stormtroopers.
I liked these guys the most, instead of the actual knightly models, but those would be the better choice for what you're aiming.
Thus, you could play both IG, Stormtroopers (now an army in 40k) and SA.

>>47390387
Sanguinius should be
>Only Angels May Fly
From when he tore out Ka'Bandahs wing

>>47397302
That one actually works better. I have thought of one for Iacton.
>Back in my Day

>>47396396
That's a no to the rhino heavy weapon. Consider a dozer blade instead.

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>>47397324
Yes, I proposed "Agathon's Might" and this is much better. Keeps up with his Retired Badass persona
>>47397302
same

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>>47396760
I love me
t. Fulgrim

>>47397682
That was my intention. Just Qurze going on about ye olden moon wolf days until his opponent passes out.

Would Questoris Knights have the Aquila or Mechanicum symbols on their armor? I noticed that there's a choice between either eagle symbols or Mechanicum ones in the box set.

>>47398135
Aquilla if they're Loyal to the Imperium, Cogs if they're loyal to the Mechanicum, Skulls/Laurels if they're freeblades.

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Your favorite non-primarch Lord of war for equal to or less than 625pts. GO

>>47399085
>Whales on stilts
The chances of them finding us in this thread were abyssal!

So I've never even had a 40k army, what units should I look at for a Imperial Fists list? I really like artillery and elite "line breaker" type units.

>>47399294
40K Space Marines army*. I have Xenos shit.

thus cough syrup is serious shit

>>47399294
basilisks, and breacher siege marines in spartans.

>>47399294
They get a buff for bolters & heavy bolters IIRC. Sigismund is also awesome.

>>47399294
IF have the best regular Termies in the heresy.

>>47400747
Their sarge can wear a Solarite Gauntlet, right?

>>47399085
Glaive.

Zzapp.

>>47400957
No ICs and Templar sarges only.

If duty took you down the path where nothing was certain, what would you be?

>>47401045
Uncertain

>>47400966
still good without the armoured ceramite?

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>>47401045
>Zeal makes all things possible
>Duty makes all things simple

As such, I'd be simple...possibly.

>>47401073
On a super heavy, armoured ceramite is mandatory.

>>47401035
Shit sucks.....

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>Power Glaive is straight better than a Phoenix spear for the same point cost

>>47401341
On termie sarges it isn't really better than a power fist anyway. The only difference is AP1 which is only useful against vehicles and if you hope that your sarges AP1 attacks are going to make the difference between a destroyed vehicle and not then you're doing it wrong. A bunch of Chainfists will serve you better.

>>47401333
then I can't take a glaive for 625 then

>>47401481
You really have no reason to complain, just look what we, WE got with caedere and chainaxes.

>>47401860
There was always a catch to AP2 legion weapons

Phoenix spears were only on the charge
Scythes were -1 initiative
Chainglaives and the Ravens claws were rending

But shit like legatine axes and power glaives, theyre just good.

Not to mention the fucking ridiculous new blood angel and dark angel swords

>>47402098
>being this buttmad about weapons

Maybe you shouldn't be playing gay-ass Traitors, faggot

>>47402111
What I'm buttmad about is the very obvious power creep between the old legions and the new stuff coming out

>>47402117
>power-creep

yeah okay friendo

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Has forgeworld ever actually stated they plan to release daemon-primarch models? Or is it just something people assume.

How many of the primarchs were even daemon princes by the Siege of Terra?

>>47402185
They said at Warhammer Fest that they might be released in plastic.

>>47402159
He's wrong in that the oldest Legions, particularly EC and SoH, have recently been shunted to top-tier but you can't deny that Forge World blatantly favours some Legions over others in terms of Fluff and Rules.

Any idea with the Lion and friends will get released?
I'm mainly a 40k guy, but we and a few buddies agreed that we'd each get 1 army of HH (and although i'd rather just buy Corsairs, HH is mainly marines for a reason)

>>47402379
Later this year or early next. We've been given our mediocre Legion rules and kick ass equipment and RoWs to appease us until the release of Legion special units and characters

>>47402438
Neat.
Thanks anon

>>47402244
realtalk: I don't actually get why the Power Glaive is so good, there's zero drawbacks when compared to previous Legion-specific weapons and it's just odd that these Glaives get pretty amazing bonuses while my Phoenix Power Spears are only AP2 on the charge

>>47402471
Well, they are two-handed if you use it as an AP2 weapon.

>>47402554
It's pretty par for the course with regards to AP2 in the Horus Heresy, so I wouldn't call it a draw back.

The potential for 24/7 AP2 melee with White Scars is just phenomenal, I'm just glad that my EC characters get +1 I in challenges really.

>>47402456
I would argue that it'll probably be the second half of next year, early 2017'll be filled with Inferno things (Sons/Wolves/Custodes/Sisters of Silence/Arkhadine Mechanicum/Possible Spireguard).

>>47402471
Because EC are supposed to hit really hard and really fast the FIRST round of combat then either break and sweep the enemy, or get bogged down.
If they were just ALWAYS faster, ALWAYS at AP 2, they would be broken as fuck. White Scars hit at AP 2 at I 4, and have no ways of boosting their I. This is Balance.

>>47402877
Eh, I'm not arguing for perma-AP2 for EC's, I'd rather there be a more direct drawback for the power glaive.

It doesn't really affect me anyway I run a Kakophonie-heavy 3rd Company Elite list.

>>47402471
>>47402554
>>47402605

AP2 power creep is going to be the death of HH

A few legions having unique/expensive/situational AP2 at initiative is fine and neat and can create both elite unit blenders and distraction units that can't be ignored, phoenix spears and power scythes are perfect examples, expensive and powerful, but with drawbacks

IMO what we need isn't more AP2 but more ways to get guys tankier at the expense of offense, like some generic piece of wargear that can boost toughness but is a one of the following option with digital lasers, or a piece of eternal warrior wargear at the expense of never claiming an attack from 2 weapons.

>>47402885
The drawback is less on the weapon and more on the Legion rules themselves.
Scars get this nice weeapon, but are not going to get much in the way of I or WS buffs to hit faster or easier. Only other buff really seems to be the rerolls of 1 from the praetor cyber bird.

/HHG/! Post your
>Legion
>How you outfit your Praetors and command squads!

>>47402925
The bird only give rerolls on shooting, it lets you reroll your charge.
A WS that moves 6" will reroll 1s to wound in assault though.

>>47402974
Emperor's Children

Praetor
Artificer Armour
Iron Halo
Archeotech Pistol
Paragon Blade (MC)
Sonic Shrieker

>>47402885
Never gaining an extra attack for two weapons seems like a decent drawback

Do glaives boost strength?

>>47403049
Either S:User AP3 or S:+1 AP2 Two-handed.
So, yes 75% of the time.

>>47403049
I guess that if you consider that there's no I boosting things the White Scars can do, then it's kinda passable but it's still way more versatile overall, rather than being more niche like a Phoenix power spear.

Also the not gaining extra attacks thing isn't a drawback when a lot of AP2 weapons have exactly this feature (Unless you are somehow taking 2x specialist weapons with your Praetor).

>>47403112
As an AL player, yes, always 2x spec weps.

Re-reading the Legatine Axe stuff too and it doesn't seem over powered either; sure its got that ye olde Rending ability of auto wounding on hits of 6, but otherwise its a 4+ to wound vs other marines for twice (?) the cost of a power fist. Best of all they can't be given to sarges or apothecaries

>>47402974
Dark Angels
Praetor - Jetbike, iron halo, Paragon Blade, powerfist, Rad Grenades, acid bolt shells.

Command Squad - jetbikes, Combat Shields, Power Weapons, melta bombs, acid bolt shells.

Usually accompanied by a primus medicae with a boarding shield and Terranic Greatsword

>>47403193
Forgot the ICs have combi-grenade launchers too for stasis shell goodness

>>47402974
Imperial fists
Tartarus armour, Master-crafted thunder hammer, Virgil-pattern storm shield, Digital lasers, Indomitan mantle (If I'm allowed), Teleportation transponder.

Tartarus armour, Power fists, Virgil-pattern storm shields Teleportation transponder.

If I'm running the Stone Gauntlet I don't take the teleporters.

>>47402909
AP 2 at above I 1 (besides Primarch weapons and paragon blades)
EC phoenix Spears (bunch of units/characters)
DG Scythe (deathshroud plus characters)
BA Blades of Perdition (Characters)
WS Glaives (Characters)
UM Legetaine Axe (One unit plus Characters)
Mechanium (fuck every Damn robot)
Besides Mechanium who are already broken as fuck this does not look like it's overwhelming the game.
And the guys who do the get it
SH get to attack again at I 1, along with way better shooting at close range before they charge
WE get hatred and rage handed out like candy, along with rerolls of 1 to wound
RG get furious charge or hit and run, along with rending claws
SA get eternal warrior and 3++
IF get 3++ and rerolls to hit of 1 in challenges
NL get + 1 to hit and wound as well as rending
AL get to steal any of the above and add +1 attack to fists/paragon blades for 5 points
DA get a bunch of special shit
IH, IW, WB get nothing... but the first two are shooty, the last gets Gal Vorbak and Daemons.
Seems balanced to me.

>>47402974
DA
Praetor with Cataphractii Armor, Paragon Blade, digital lasers, master crafted, Combi weapon

Command Squad in Cataphractii Armor, 2 Chain Fists, Grenade Harness, Lightning Claws

Land Raider Photos with dozer blades, frag assault launcher

>>47402974
Emperor's Children

Exactly like this guy >>47403018 except no pistol

>>47403345
Aren't the Word Bearer tainted weapons a 5pt specialist weapon available to characters?

>>47403551
It's an instant death specialist weapon CCW, no AP or S modification. Not really up there with the likes of glaves, spears or axes

>>47403584
This. Besides super possessed, who are CC monsters, WB aren't that great. But easy access to Daemons shores that up nicely

>>47402185
Fulgrim and Angron. Morty and Horus might as well be ones by the time of the Siege.

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>>47402244
>Daemon Fulgrim in plastic

>>47403345
IW are nice because of the Ironfire and special units, but man do their legion-specific options suck

Warsmiths gain Stubborn, -1 to a single piece of cover and the option to become like techmarines at the cost of having a bounty on their head and losing their WT, while Shrapnel Bolts means you better buy all the Rhinos with all the pintle mounted Heavy bolters if you want to actually pin something at Ld9

>>47403918
Are we just pretending the Havocs and Tyrants don't exist? Because 'man do their legion-specific options suck' is a bit of an overstatement.

>>47403966
Said legion-specific options, not legion-specific units. I literally say "IW are nice because of the Ironfire and special units" just before after it.

I'm not asking DA-tier gear, but something better than Warsmiths and Shrapnel Bolt I am.

>>47403966
>>47404000
Was going to say "legion specific wargear" but the Warsmith isn't wargear, that's all.

>>47404036

Warsmith is still very much a rather bad option, especially because you lose your WT.

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>>47390322
>>47390356
>>47395223
>>47395371
>>47395384
>>47395439
>>47395497
>>47395532

I love sex & pain
t.Emperor's Children

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I WANT PLASTIC MK3 RIGHT NOW

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>>47404053
I love the whole world
It's such a brilliant place
Boomdeyada boomdeyada boomdeyada boomdeyada...

>>47404081
Why would you post this? Delete this image or you'll never get plastic mk3.

>>47404042
And lacks any enhancements to survivability, beyond Stubborn (which won't help in the duel, because his head is worth 1VP)

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>>47404101
whats your problem?

>>47404120
It's a dumb meme.

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>>47404134
you sound triggered

>>47404169
Maybe I'm tired of seeing an image that was spammed a lot in the past?

>>47404114

Honor is a inefficient concept and only serves to make commanders lose their heads. As such, no Iron Warrior officer is allowed to duel opponents. Recommended course of action is to call in artillery on the line officer's own position if there is a reasonable chance of being forced into a duel. Failure to comply with this regulation results in capital punishment.

>>47404237
Even when it's an Imperial Fist?

>>47404237
>From honor cometh iron

>>47404036
>>47404000
Ah sorry, I'm on my phone and the way the post formatted made me miss that. I'll be more careful reading next time.

Been playing about and crunching some numbers with >>47391083 based on the feedback I got, how's this looking now? (Promise not to keep spamming this shit, this should be the last time.)

(Loyalist) Night Lords, Pride of the Legion.

>Praetor (paragon blade, bike, iron halo, meltabombs, fear trophies) - 185
>Goes with outrider squad

>Centurion (chainglaive, bike, meltabombs, fear trophies) - 95
>Goes with other outrider squad

>10 Veterans (2 power axes, chainglaive on sarge) - 230
>Furious charge
>Rhino - 35

>10 Veterans (2 power axes, chainglaive on sarge) - 230
>Furious charge
>Rhino - 35

>5 Terminators (4 lightning claw, 1 chainfist, teleporter) - 220
OR
>10 Tacticals - 150
>Rhino - 35
>3 more power weapons on Veterans - 30
(If get B@C can swap between these options.)

>2 Quad-lauchers (shatter shells) - 140

>6 Outriders (2 power weapons (1 sword, 1 axe), chainglaive on sarge) - 225

>6 Outriders (2 power weapons (1 sword, 1 axe), chainglaive on sarge) - 225

>Vindicator - 120

>Laser vindicator - 130

>Laser vindicator - 130

>Total - 1995/2000

The thud guns were a bit of a random addition, but I had 100-150 points spare and, basically, there isn't much in the legion list that seemed worthwhile for that few points. Would have liked a few more power weapons on the veterans when taking termis, but ran out of points.

>>47404316
through phosphex, honor.

>>47404237

Which would be a neat concept if Warsmith did anything cool like that, but taking the option doesn't give any cool options like buffing artillery/your army

As it stands a warsmith is just a blog standard praetor, who are melee beatstick characters, in a shooting/hoard focused army who gives up access to warlord traits for stubborn (in a legion with the best morale rules in the game) nerfing one non fortification coversave and giving 2 VPs when killed

I wish warsmiths had access to a list of optional abilities, similar to the ones Kyr Vhalen has, so you get to mix and match different offensive and defensive buffs to create your own cute little cruel warlord

>>47404354
Maybe fine a few spare points and make the Centurion a consul, maybe a Chaplain, champion or librarian. Something to boost the squad just a bit further.

>>47404362
From iron cometh strength

From strength cometh will

From will cometh faith

From faith cometh honor

From honor cometh iron

This is the Unbreakable Litany. May it forever be so. You don't know your own litany.

>>47404381

Yep, i've always imagined warsmiths to be more of the pragmatic, shooty kind then the annoying heroics other legions are fond of, so it be rather nice to represent that on the tabletop.

>>47404405
Nah, he's phosphex anon. He smokes that shit, and I guess he's a DG too.

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>>47404544
I would argue that the EC would smoke that too.

>>47404574
nah its phosphex, not a cock

>>47404664
They'll mix things up in order to feel sensation, Anon.

>>47404772
Even for slaaneshis, phosphex is a bit extreme.

>>47404824
But that's why they'd smoke it. More extremes, Anon.

>>47402244
>EC have recently been shunted to top-tier
How? In challenges they are easily raped by Iron Hands and Salamanders, and unless they kill their opponent in the first round of a challenge they are almost certain to die when their opponent uses their fist or thunder hammer on them.

>>47402974
Emperor's Children
Praetor: Master-Crafted Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers, Power Fist, Sonic Shrieker
2x Champions: Master-Crafted Phoenix Spear, Artificer Armour, Combat Shield, Sonic Shrieker
Honour Guards: Phoenix Spears, Combat Shields, Sonic Shriekers
My group houseruled that even though honour guards aren't technically characters you can always equip them with legion specific wargear (eg. sonic shriekers and phoenic spears).

>>47405431
>unless they kill their opponent in the first round of a challenge
Which they do super easily

>>47405487
>Which they do super easily
With sergeants sure. A 7 attack praetor with a sonic shrieker and paragon blade has a 50% chance of failing to kill a 2 wound 2+/4++ model, they only have slightly over a 20% chance of killing a 2+/4++ praetor in a challenge, against shit like Fists, Salamanders, and Iron Hands who all have access to a 3++ they perform even worse. Honestly they probably perform worse than other legion's praetors in challenges because their opponent defaults to their fist in CC while when both sides have equal initiative they will often just use the paragon blade.

Honestly wargear is the most important facet of these challenges which leads to the weird outcome that Salamanders praetors outright rape everyone in challenges (2+/3++ T5 on a jetbike with eternal warrior will survive pretty much anything and is still capable of throwing out tones of damage).

>>47405431
>>47405590
You know you could use a powerfist of your own, right? EC shine the most on their Taxical squads:
They hit first, so less enemies get to fight back, bolstering your chances of Sweeping them. Which you can reliably do because Crusaders.
And their sgts will kill their 1W artificer armour no invuln save counterparts
As for the real deal with your Praetor, give him a thunder hammer and Paragon blade and mount him on a (jet)bike, so now he can't be instakilled AND you get the chance to use the Paragon blade later at +1 initiative, so you may still end up killing them faster

Not to mention you probably already won the combat by merely having Fulgrim on the table.

>>47405618
>You know you could use a powerfist of your own, right?
Yes in which case the combat almost certainly ends in a mutual kill. Either way you aren't utilizing your +1 initiative in challenges.

>EC shine the most on their Taxical squads:
While that I can certainly agree with good tacticals is hardly unique, Fists have better ballistic skill, World Eaters have more attacks, Dark Angels are effectively WS 5 for offensive purposes (assuming you give them chainswords), Blood Angels are effectively strength 5.

>And their sgts will kill their 1W artificer armour no invuln save counterparts
That requires that you dump points giving your sergeant a phoenix spear. And you damn well better hope your sergeant wins the challenge because you have to issue and accept challenges and if you lose your unit suffers -1 leadership. Does any other legion actually suffer for losing challenges?

>As for the real deal with your Praetor, give him a thunder hammer and Paragon blade and mount him on a (jet)bike, so now he can't be instakilled AND you get the chance to use the Paragon blade later at +1 initiative, so you may still end up killing them faster
Opponents can bring jetbikes too and other legions can take advantage of that survivability better primarily through 3++ or eternal warrior. I don't care if EC are the best at challenges but it is retarded that two legions that don't give a shit about challenges (Iron Hands and Salamanders) are in the top five.

>Not to mention you probably already won the combat by merely having Fulgrim on the table.
+2 Isn't that amazing especially when you will probably take higher losses since your elite units are either outright shitty or have poor survivability. It is certainly useful but isn't the game changer a lot of people make it out to be.

IW ability to fire into Combat when?

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Guys are Sangy and Corax twins?

>>47405969
You'd almost think they were brothers.

Or something.

>>47405969
Well, sort of, yeah they're all primarchs and genetically similar to the emps so will all look similar.

>>47405987
What about Vulkan?

>>47406006
Blacked

>>47406006
He kind of melted when the Emperor put his gene-send too close to some candles.

>>47402098
>Not to mention the fucking ridiculous new ... dark angel swords
The Dark Angel's swords are a big fat helping of okay. Calibanite Warblades will mostly be seen on Apothecaries since they can only get a sword and the warblade is a free upgrade, but other characters will be looking for AP2.

The Terranic Greatsword is in a similar boat but even worse off, because they're only available to HQ units and Paragon Blades mean they're really only an option for Centurions.

Best build I've seen for either of them is on a Chaplain who's also carrying a Power Axe so he can use AP2 when he needs it.

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How are your projects coming along /hhg/?

>>47406006
The same except he's black as fuck

>>47406006
He takes after their mother. And as a proud, independent woman of color, she don't have to sit here and take none of this shit.

*snaps in a Z shape*
*teleports behind you*
*Oh, you better believe it's personal, bitch*

>Loken: Kill for the Living
>Tarik: Punchline
>Abaddon: Black Reaving
>Maloghurst: Twisted Cripple
>Garro: Oath of the Moment
>Endryd Harr: Rivet Hound

>>47406203
>Swiggty swooty, I'm coming for that booty.

>>47406585
>Garro
Since we're apparently aloud multiple ones per character, may I suggest 'Flight of the Eisenstein'.

>>47406623
I was thinking about that. What would be Saul and Rylanor's ultimate moves?

>>47406655
Saul would be the NPC that introduces you to the controls during Istvaan III.
Rylanor's would be either 'The Unyielding' or 'Mantle of Glory'.

>>47406698
The NPC thing probably fits Saul. Dantioch would probably be the announcer or have a special move that raises defenses called the "Iron Within". The one joke character would probably be the regular AL legionary or the Dies Irae.

>>47405811
You seem to be missing the point of the previous posts. At initiative AP2 is powerful because usually it isn't a thing except for Praetors. It's already known that salamanders and iron hands have powerful Praetors due to their wargear. We were talking about the power of spears on regular sarges who rarely get the opportunity to deny 2+ saves without resorting to unwieldy. That is where EC have better rules because there are a lot more sarges out there to kill than there are Praetors.

>>47402244
>daemon primarchs in plastic

Wasn't the quote saying something along the lines of "we don't plan on releasing daemon primarchs since people can do cooler stuff themselves with plastic kits"?

>>47406755
It would be Lucius.

>>47406886
>The joke character betrays you during the tutorial.
Very WH30k-ish

>>47403918
>>47403966
I was talking about specifically AP 2 at I better than 1. I know IW get good stuff

>>47406886
How could I be so blind? The Dies Irae would be less of a joke character than Lucius. Now I'm sad that we'd never get a game like this, and all we have is a grimdark future where there is only novels.

>>47406796
I believe that is the quote.

>>47405487
EC artificer/spear sergeant vs. generic artificer/fist sergeant in a challenge:
>EC gets the charge
EC: 3 attacks = 1.5 hits = 1 wound = 1 unsaved wound, FNP possible
Generic: 2 attacks = 1 hit = 0.8333... wounds = 0.8333... unsaved wounds, no FNP
>generic dude gets the charge
EC: 2 attacks = 1 hit = 0.5 wounds = 0.08333... unsaved wounds, FNP possible
Generic: 3 attacks = 1.5 hits = 1.25 wounds = 1.25 unsaved wounds, no FNP
>any round after the first
EC: 2 attacks = 1 hit = 0.5 wounds = 0.08333... unsaved wounds, FNP possible
Generic: 2 attacks = 1 hit = 0.8333... wounds = 0.8333... unsaved wounds, no FNP

EC NEED the charge to have a semblance of a chance, and a small amount of bad luck on the to-hit/to-wound rolls in that first round means that the EC sarge is completely fucked. EC sarges that have to fight anything more survivable than a regular artificer sergeant (i.e. anything with 2+ wounds, anything with an invuln/FNP, anything with T5+, defensive grenades etc.) are completely fucked even when they get the charge.

>>47406426
You win today. Congratulations

>>47406796
Perhaps anon is thinking of the plastic warhound rumours.
How believable are they anyway?

>>47406766
This guy fucking gets it. Why can't the other guy get it?

>>47407091
looks to me that the EC sarge wins as long as he gets the charge? statistical 1 USW is all you need for 1W segeants after all. at least after you sniper the apotechary.

>>47406585
>Abaddon: Black Reaving.
His arms fall off and he gets killed by a random power fist nigga

>>47407224
Can he attack with his sword then attack once with the fist at I 1? Or is he just some WS 7 chump with no other redeeming characteristics?

>>47407091
>EC need the charge
Your LA rule is basically the old version of furious charge and your sgt is wielding a powered up power lance, OF COURSE YOU NEED THE CHARGE, what the hell were you expecting?
You know what do the rest of sgts do when facing off with an powerful enemy in melee, even when we charge?
DROP DEAD without doing anything. You're at least inflicting a wound, doing some semblance of damage.
.
What
.
Do.
.
You.
.
Want?

>>47396544
>slowly driving your mastodon into the soft, moist folds of the enemy
>watching the enemy quiver with anticipation as your mastodon buries itself deeply into their lines
>as the front assault doors open and it's contents gush forth, the enemy screams

>>47407428
They said WE, not EC.
>>47407421
Cocaine?

>>47407224
Not funny.

That horse was beaten beyond a bloody ruin. There is nothing left. You are just beating a blackened red smear on the ground and you keep going.

You lunatic.

Should I paint my Imperial Fists yellow or say fuck it and go full Black Templar color scheme? I just want Sigismund to feel like he's in a safe space.

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>>47407531
pic of Siggy related

>>47407531
Templars COULD have lots and lots of black, but do keep in mind the Black Templars as such weren't a thing yet.

>>47407091
>my purple dickgirl loving faggots don't rape everything in CC
>waaaaahhhhh

eat shit, fuckface

>>47407421
>You know what do the rest of sgts do when facing off with an powerful enemy in melee, even when we charge?
>DROP DEAD without doing anything.
Artificer/fist sergeants get to do significant damage against anything that's unwieldy before dying, and will likely survive to do damage against anything AP3 or worse. White Scars get to do S+1 AP2 damage at initiative, even when charged. Any other legion can also decline the challenge and keep their LD9 to try and tarpit, rather than being forced to accept, drop down to LD8 without a sergeant AND get -1LD for losing the challenge.

Either way, I just wanted to prove the other anon wrong on the claim that EC win their challenges "super easily".

>>47401860

I'd wager that the Sons came off worse regarding unique equipment*.
We get one piece, that sucks horribly, available to a tiny handful of the list, that isn't even unique to us. Fucking Banestrikes.

I'd like to see the Cthonian War Axe as a S(User) AP2, Specialist Weapon that strikes at I2. That way it also benefits from Merciless.

Or how about a new Combi weapon to support the whole one-shot thing? Like the Haywire Grenades that the Auxilia have, or simply expanding Banestrikes to cover all the specialist Seeker ammo types.
Or finally, a proper Locator Beacon that works on Drop Pods and Dreadclaws.

To make this post somewhat relevant, any additions you'd like to see for your own Legion? Assuming that anything up to the level of Legatines/Glaives is fair game.

*Note- absolutely tippety-top tier with units and LA rule

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>>47405811
>Yes in which case the combat almost certainly ends in a mutual kill.
War is hell, isn't it?
>While that I can certainly agree with good tacticals is hardly unique
It's like the other legions are also trying. Who would have guessed?
>That requires that you dump points giving your sergeant a phoenix spear
What, you wanted AP2 chainswords at I5? It's not like those guys get their 3++ for free. Winning costs points, and if those expenses help you sweep the enemy, some would say it's worth it
> I don't care if EC are the best at challenges but it is retarded that two legions that don't give a shit about challenges (Iron Hands and Salamanders) are in the top five.
Those two legions give a shit about not dying, THAT'S why they're in the top five(?) to begin with. Your legions gives a shit at being soopa fast, and with Maru Skara, Infiltration Fulgrim and bonuses to speed they are, are they not? I for one would better like them getting rerolls in duels instead of +1 In, as it kinda overlaps.
Also, all legions have a flaw in their LA rule. I'm letting you choose, what do you want yours to be?
>+2 Isn't that amazing especially when you will probably take higher losses since your elite units are either outright shitty or have poor survivability
EC are meant to be the fragile speedsters, hitting fast but not able to take punishment quite as easily as others. That's not broken, that's actually balanced. You can get an AP2 I5 jump pack squad with 3+ save, the Fists get a 2+ save squad with AP3 and it'd be nice...if this wasn't the game where the Suzerains get AP2 at initiative with 2+ save. The problem lies on them, not in you.
>>47407428
This is something else

>>47407531
both

so thinking of getting into Solar Auxilia, and I've got a question about their tanks.
They're russes are more expensive than the IG counterparts, but with some upgrades, are they worth it?
The executioner seems good, going from ap2 to 3 isn't fun, but losing gets hot is.
The fast attack varients looked fun at first, but all of their guns are long range and I don't see the benefit from using their cool rules on those guns. Except maybe outflanking with 2 heavy flamers and being a dick, but that seems more fun than good.

>>47406766
>We were talking about the power of spears on regular sarges
No, you were talking about sarges. I don't give a fuck about my sargeants. Who cares if your sergeant can win challenges anyway? Woo you killed one extra model, not a big deal. I would care if everyone suffered -1 leadership for losing challenges since it would mean that I would make the enemy even more likely to run after losing an assault or I could outright deny the enemy the use of their sergeant as they would have them refuse my challenge meaning I don't have the chance of their sergeant surviving and attacking with a power fist. How challenges are now it doesn't really mean anything if I kill their sergeant, I am no better off than had I just used my sergeant to kill mooks.

>>47407421
>You know what do the rest of sgts do when facing off with an powerful enemy in melee, even when we charge?
Don't issue a challenge?

>>47402974
Raven Guard

Praetor
>Tartaros Armour, Digi, Halo, Paragon, Fractal Harrow(when possbile, thanks FAQ for confirming it pings off of Paragon Blade kills!)

CS
>Tartaros, Ravens Talons

Then they hunt scoring and backfiled. I got Seekers and Mor Deythan to kill deathstars.

>>47408422
right... because they wont challenge you...

>>47408444
Then let him die? Who gives a shit it is just a sergeant? Worth like what 1.75% of your army's points at most? EC have a massive fucking penalty in that we HAVE to issue challenges, HAVE to accept them, and if we lose the challenge our unit suffers -1 leadership. Do you want to know how EC deal with Sigismund? Shoot him or charge him with dreadnoughts, there is literally no way EC can deal with beatstick characters in close combat without a primarch because we have to issue and accept challenges and the two primary units we would use to kill the escort of a beatstick character are chosen warriors meaning we have to keep issuing challenges until we are all dead.

Dark Angels and Blood Angels could just charge Sigismund, decline the challenge and let their bodyguards gangrape him. EC just line up to 1 v 1 him and die.

>>47408525
>Then let him die? Who gives a shit it is just a sergeant? Worth like what 1.75% of your army's points at most? EC have a massive fucking penalty in that we HAVE to issue challenge, HAVE to accept them
not a penalty since everybody is doing that anyway.
>and if we lose the challenge our unit suffers -1 leadership.
then git gud
>Do you want to know how EC deal with Sigismund? Shoot him or charge him with dreadnoughts, there is literally no way EC can deal with beatstick characters in close combat without a primarch
thats true of every legion. hes fucking sigismund.
>because we have to issue and accept challenges and the two primary units we would use to kill the escort of a beatstick character are chosen warriors meaning we have to keep issuing challenges until we are all dead.
not relevant you can still kill his unit and just 1v10 him.
>Dark Angels and Blood Angels could just charge Sigismund, decline the challenge and let their bodyguards gangrape him.
so can anybody if their bodyguard is more terminators than siggy has in his bodyguard.
>EC just line up to 1 v 1 him and die.
well thats what they do in the fluff so i dont see the problem

>>47395741
I love space aids
t.typhus

>>47408385
Yeah okay but you just randomly interjected in an existing argument with a different point then. So why?

>>47408608
>not relevant you can still kill his unit and just 1v10 him
Find me a unit build that can wipe out 10 templars in a single round of combat.

>>47402974

>DG

I run Durak Rask, because intentionally abandoning your /comfy/ ruin to engage in the chasing and beating of queers is the pleb tier way to command

>>47408727
any WE combat unit with poweraxes...

not that it matters since templars are shit against terminators or anything with a 2+.

10 phoenix terminators on the charge (or just regular cataphractii with axes) + faggot praetor > siggy + 10 templars. templars are shit against deathstars

>>47408214
>if this wasn't the game where the Suzerains get AP2 at initiative with 2+ save
Fucking Mary-Suezrains

>>47395885
End your dirty bat themed life

>>47408385
>Who cares if your sergeant can win challenges anyway?
The enemy becomes more prone to fall back
> I would care if everyone suffered -1 leadership for losing challenges
I would care if each individual marine in my enemy's army hit earlier than me and I couldn't fight them back, but I guess winning combat easier and with a greater Ld penalty to the opponent AND with Crusader isn't such a big deal for you.
Srsly, you talk as if the death of your sgt meant you lost the combat even though the enemy's squad dies before they can hit back.
Your LA rule benefits the common soldier
>>47408525
> Do you want to know how EC deal with Sigismund? Shoot him or charge him with dreadnoughts
That's how everybody deals with Sigismund, honestly. What makes you so special? The fact that you wear the Aquila on your chest?
Only motherfucking Scoria or the Primarchs have the upper hand against Siggy, that's how it is.

>>47408722
I simply claimed they were shit because they can't win meaningful combats.
>Lose against praetors from about half the legions
>Champions get initiative at AP 2 but still have trouble killing an enemy 2 wound model before they can get hit
>Have to issue challenges and suffer massively if they lose those challenges
>Kakophoni and Phoenix Guard are laughably bad
The only things they have going for them are
>Fulgrim
>Maru Skara
>Palatine Blades
>Sonic Shriekers
>Phoenix Spears
>+1 Initiative
A good primarch can't fix a legion, the Maru Skara is good if your opponent is an idiot, Palatine Blades will die to anything, Sonic Shriekers are good, Phoenix Spears are nice, and +1 initiative is great. They aren't a bad legion, at least nowhere near as bad as they were back when Palatine Blades were capped at 5 dudes with no access to AP 2. Still they aren't a great legion, they are decidedly mid tier.

>>47395885
well, i like it

>>47408793
>Charges at them with Cybernetica I5 Fearless Vorax while buffing them from 24" away.
I know, right?

>>47408751
>/comfy/ ruin
Why use a ruin?

The Reaping in no way precludes fortifications, so why not reap (and rape) from the comfort of a fort? (or at least defensive lines and things that make you hard to charge)

>>47408781
>10 phoenix terminators on the charge (or just regular cataphractii with axes) + faggot praetor > siggy + 10 templars.
10 Phoenix Guards with shriekers costs 480 points, with a decently kitted out praetor to join them the total cost goes up to about 690ish points. Sigismund and 10 Templars costs 530 points total. Yeah a unit that expensive damn well better be able to kill Sigismund and his entourage. Why not just by Fulgrim and have him run in with like 5 Palatine Blades to absorb bullets? Hell of a lot cheaper and at worst you lose a few palatine blades.

>>47408824
>Your LA rule benefits the common soldier
Since when do EC care about the common soldier? Lucius killed 30 of his men and another captain so he could be seen as a glorious hero instead of dying unremembered on Isstvan III.

>>47408974
>deathstars are expensive
wow, who wouldve thought?

also only an idiot would build a deathstar out of templars. it would be a 10 man terminator unit with stormshields + siggy, which would cost more than whatever you are complaining about.

>>47409023
Well if siggy brings some SS terminators now your expensive ass palatine deathstar can't kill them.

>>47409140
no, now your deathstar would also get fulgrim instead of a praetor. and would win.

>>47408861
>I simply claimed they were shit because they can't win meaningful combats.
Only Sal and IH, really, given how the other things are relics you can say no to. And that emperor-damned double-wound BROKEN BA sword. And IF, but that's arguably unfair, being good both at melee and at range.

>>Kakophoni and Phoenix Guard are laughably bad
No one can argue that, they're shit. I'd love to have three special units instead of two, though.

>>47409008
Point taken, pass me the cocaine.

>>47407854
>I'd wager that the Sons came off worse regarding unique equipment
What, a swarm of scarabs following them?

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>>47408974
>>47409023
>>47409140
>Trying to kill Siggy in melee

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>>47409277

Friend, you are absolutely right, a pair of Medusa's will do nicely

Where are Primarchs located on Battlescribe? I have failed in finding them

>>47409436

Make sure you fill out the loyalist or traitor section of the sheet. Then it should be under Lords of War.

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>>47409436
Battlescribe?
>mfw not simultaneously consulting 5 books when making your list

>>47409478
They really need to do something about this.

Re-compile all of the lists into a single book covering books 1-6 (or 1-7 if this happens in a few months), and then repackage the old books with the fluff parts only.

>>47409247
>>47408861
>Kakophoni
>laughably bad
even with the relentless option and now being Heavy2?
that seem like pretty solid shooting for 20pts per model.

>>47408794
You have to wait for the Anon she used a bat wielding bat on to get his revenge.

>>47409685
That RoW fixes them, but base they're bad.

>>47409629
To be fair though, unless they do that right at the end of the HH* when they're releasing the Emperor's model* the books will always end up out of date as new stuff comes out, and periodically GW will do a new 40k edition that screws things up too.

*i.e. 2038**.
**just in time to release Book 1: The Scouring Of Your Wallet

>>47409732
ok, because I agree they seemed terrible base, but between the update and the RoW, I figured they at least moved up into dec.
My area hasn't started too much 30k yet, but a bunch of us are thinking of getting into it so, asking questions.

>Units with this special rules may always attempt to regroup regardless of casualties

I dont understand what this means

I thought units could always try to regroup, but if under 25% of original size they had to get snake eyes.

>>47408861
>>47409247
What would make phoenix guard good?

>>47409926
they already are good. EC are just babies

>>47409885
>but if under 25% of original size they had to get snake eyes.

This is what changes, you dont need double 1s to regroup, you just use your normal leadership value regardless of how many models you lost.

>>47409926
Without changing their loadout or points? 2 wounds, to make them comparable to red butchers/deathshroud/justaerin/firedrakes.

>>47409926

Being WS5, I6, AP2 and able to Sweep.
OH WAIT

>>47409994
To be fair, it's appropriate to the massive pride of the EC.
>We should be best!

>>47409926
The recent change is just what they needed. They shouldn't be a copy of Justaerin.

>>47409008
Chaplain, actually, but I see your point.

>>47410125
its because they are faggots

>>47410065
Ok, that makes more sense.

>Units with this special rule may always attempt to regroup at their normal leadership regardless of casualties

How hard is that FW

>>47409926
Have them always use the better profile for their spears regardless if they've charged or been charged

Like people mentioned in the last thread, the White Scars novels have been good and I'm really tempted to do them. But would you wait for more to come out? They've got Mk IV chest/helmet/pauldrons and pauldrons for Mk II and II armor. That, and rites of war. But that's it. Not sure how long I can wait, though... they won't be in the next book, and there's no guarantee about the book after that.

White's also a bit intimidating to paint. I think I'd use a slightly bone-tinted shade.

>>47410218
goof thinking, power axes at initiative 5 would be balanced

>>47409629
They have this already for 1-5, it's just two books, not 1. Agreed on repackaging the old books for fluff only, though.

>>47410346
Theyre only I4 when they dont charge

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>>47410181
Am I being trolled here? Or did you just read the rules on 1d4chan? Because the word 'normally' here implies that their 'normal' leadership is always used regardless of casualties.

>>47410380
oh well that totally balances it then..

>>47410346
Power Axes at I4 are apparently balanced for White Scars.

>>47410432
And Ultramarines too

>>47410432
>suzaerin are universally considered broken
>'waaaa why dont i get a broken unit too! its balanced'
fuck off back to 40k

>>47406006
Vulkan isn't "Afro-Black", but rather, the same facial features as the rest of his brothers, but whit an oily, shiny, pitch-black skin.

>>47410504
I'm neither the anon who mentioned suzerain nor am I the one who suggested the change to phoenix terminators, you blithering idiot.

>>47410157
>Appropriate to the EC
I'm glad we're in agreement on this.

>>47410303
Magic trick to painting stuff white: paint it a very light grey instead.

>>47410558
sure thing kiddo

>>47410517
Could be Ethiopian then.

Given how many of the primarchs (and the Emperor) are depicted with long faces and sharp chins, why do the unhelmeted 40k marine plastics look like eggheads?

>>47406203
Where is that sheathed sword from?

>>47410898
looks like the ones from the berserker kit

>>47410898
>>47410977
It is one of the Berzerker swords. Which are totally sweet, but I never manage to find a place to use them.

>>47410432
>>47410453
Legatine axes aren't broken per se, only the Suzerains.
>>47410504
But yeah, the solution isn't buffing everyone, but nerfing them appropiately.
And deleting the Suzerains >:(

So if I put Siggy with SS Terminators, I'm guessing it's either Tartaros or nothing at all? Can't just glue some FW shields to Cataphractii because S&P is a bitch?

>>47411428
how to fix suzerains :

the axes are just regular power axes, they can swap them for power swords (gladius look better anyway)

how to fix templar brethren

let them take power axes.

shit isnt difficult.

>>47411437
Using Tartaros armour each shield will then cost 15 pts. So, each marine will cost 55 pts. Ouch.
>>47411498
>Fix Templars
>Give them axes
>Not power fists
Gib fists

Invictarii with regular axes sound nice.

have something scribbled down during an extremely boring class of ethics, figured that the Legions would have something of a written frame work

Standard Regulations, Legiones Astartes IVth.
From honour cometh Iron


Section one, Equipment regulations
Article 1, Equipment
1.1 Upon Induction, all Legionaires are issued with the following equipment
1.1.1 1 (one) standard issue Power Armour
1.1.2 1 (one) Standard issue bolt pistol
1.1.3 1 (one) Standard issue Bolt gun
1.1.4 1 (one) Standard issue combat knife or chain sword
1.1.5 2 (two) Standard issue Frag Grenades
1.1.6 2 (two) Standard issue Krak Grenades
1.1.7 3 (Three) Standard issue legion robes
1.1.8 1 (one) pair of standard issue boots
1.1.9 14(Fourteen) sets of standard issue undergarments
1.1.10 1 (one) Standard issue bedding kit
1.1.11 1 (one) Standard issue personal Hygiene kit
1.1.12 6 (six) standard issue bolt pistol clips
1.1.13 6 (six) standard issue Bolt Gun clips
1.2 All Legionnaires are expected to maintain their own equipment. All Legionnaires are expected repair category 1 and 2 damage to equipment, as noted in Appendix II
1.3 Failure to comply results in punishment deemed proper by the commanding line officer.
1.4 If Legionnaires cannot repair their own equipment, Legionnaire is allowed to request for substitution and repair by the Armorium.
1.5 Any legionnaire, is required, at all times, to produce these items upon request by a commanding officer
1.6 If a legionnaire is deemed wanting, a line officer may opt for punishment ex article X.

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>>47411545
>clips

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>>47411545
>Bedding kit
I WAS LUCKY TO HAVE AMMO, GET BACK TO THE GROUND AND SLEEP TIGHT, MOTHERFUCKER!

how to fix rampagers :

give them artificer armor

let them buy power weapons for +5 points

remove the option to take jump packs, or increase it to +20 ppm

>>47411662
>How to fix Rampagers:
>You can't, take FC Vets

Kidding. Don't remove their jump packs, just give them RAMPAGE, FC and Zealot. Maybe more FnP.

And make Caedere weapons worth their points, for emprah's sake.

Srsly, it's dumb how they don't have any sort of combat enhancing rule.

>>47411498

Suzerain just need to be costed appropriately

A unit that is in combat as tough as tartarous termies, is ws5, hands out a leadership buff, everyone can issue challenges and fights with ap2 at initiative has no business costing less then a regular termie squad

If they started with power swords and could buy the axes for 15 ppm then maybe

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>>47411545

>>47411767
how about leaving everything the same but give them artificer and let them take up to 45 additional men per squad.

mmmmm hordes of artificer armor

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>>47411820
That's more marines in a single squad than what some lists have.

>>47411545
>clips instead of mags
FFFFFF-

>not having a double combat load for the bolter
>the space occupied by extra pistol mags can be better served by using that space for more bolter mags
>no e-tool
>wasting space on a bedding kit

Report to the outer perimeter for trench digging and night sentry duty.

>>47411545
>bedding kit
Pert, are you trying to ruse us?

>>47392740
laser vindis are what my dreams are made of. I love them so much,

>>47411574
>>47411818
>>47411878

Not all armies use mags. Some use clips. Don't force your terminology on the world.

>>47411882
>bedding kit

Its a shovel you imperial fist!.

>>47411900
>some armies use clips

And these armies aren't worth talking about, now or ever.

>>47411900
bolters are magazine fed

>>47411908
>wasting time to include a shovel
>not making legionaries make their own shovel

>>47411921

And the other armies, most of whom haven't won a single war in years, are?

>>47411935
But then THEY are wasting time making a shovel.

>>47411964
But you're being weak by giving them shovels.

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>>47411935
>>47411908
>>47411882
>>47411878
>not stolen IF powerpillows
Are you really IW? Oh, I remembered. Regular IW aren't even alotted sleepy time. Plebz
>>47411900
>>47411921
>>47411930
>Not using superior belt fed ammo

>>47411935
>>47411964
>>47411978
Use your hands :^)

Shovels are also combat blades, spoons, utility knives, canteens, bedpans, screwdrivers, hammers, and hats. You have to have them.

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>>47412241
>Hats are also combat blades, spoons, utility knives, canteens, bedpans, screwdrivers, hammers, and Shovels

POWER HATS WHEN

>>47411900
did you invent time travel? why is someone from 1914 posting on 4chan?

>>47412617
What's the big deal? You clip the clip into the bolter. You don't mag the mag.

Revised Equipment list
1.1 Upon Induction, all Legionaires are issued with the following equipment
1.1.1 1 (one) standard issue Power Armour with powerpack
1.1.2 1 (one) Standard issue bolt pistol
1.1.3 1 (one) Standard issue Bolt gun
1.1.4 1 (one) Standard issue combat knife or chain sword including sheath
1.1.5 2 (two) Standard issue Frag Grenades
1.1.6 2 (two) Standard issue Krak Grenades
1.1.7 1 Olympia pattern Smoke grenade
1.1.8 2 (two) standard issue bolt pistol Magazines,
1.1.9 10 (ten) standard issue Bolt Gun Magazines
1.1.10 1 (one) standard issue entrenching tool
1.1.11 1 (one) standard issue Boltgun cleaning kit
1.1.12 1 (one) standard issue wetstone
1.1.13 4 (four) standard Artillery marker flares
1.1.14 3 (Three) Standard issue legion robes
1.1.15 1 (one) pair of standard issue boots
1.1.16 14(Fourteen) sets of standard issue undergarments
1.1.17 (one) Standard issue bedding kit
1.1.18 1 (one) Standard issue personal Hygiene kit
1.1.19 1 (one) standard Carbon fibre utility belt.
1.1.20 1 (one) standard issue short range, helmet integrated Vox system.
1.1.21 1 (one) standard issue Field repair kit
1.1.22 1 (one) Standard issue Rope with grappling hook, Detachable.

>>47412675
You don't do either of those, dude. You insert the magazine, you neither clip nor mag anything.
>>47412617
>In the grim darkness of the far future there's only clips

>>47412731

40k/30k is British as Fuck. Hell, Chaos was originally shorthand for America. I wouldn't be surprised if Bolters used clips because fuck America and fuck mags.

>>47412761
>britain
>guns
kek.

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>>47412727
>Undergarments
I'm not sure marines wear briefs, boxers or elephant thongs. I think they wear nothing under that armour

>nothing at all

>NOTHING AT ALL

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I dug up the FW exclusive Centurion model from when they made the new webstore. Around last autumn, it's a guy with a fist and a pistol.

I'm wondering whether I should construct him as the "early crusade honours" guy, who is cheap and gets the Child of Terra warlord trait for free, or if I should bother giving him a nuncio vox backpack in order to make him look as a Siege Breaker.
I think the "nuncio-vox" can be fluffed as something other than just the backpack, so would it be okay to keep the default backpack and switch him back and forth between the roles between games? I'm not that much of a serious business player, and I'd hope such a minor piece of wargear (seriously, it's just a speaker, we can make them smaller nowadays) wouldn't get caught in rules lawyers' WYSIWYG.

Other than that I'm not doing much to change the model, because the Solarite Gauntlet is a good weapon, and fluffy, and the bolt pistol can be fluffed as an archaeotech pistol if I wish.
The face is the thing I'm going to change, though, because the gnarled and angry face isn't ideal for my vision of the Imperial Fists. I'm probably going to make the Centurion look like myself (or my distant descendant) using a third party head, and use the provided head for an Iron Warriors Primus Medicae.

>tfw it's summer painting season
>feels good battle brutha

>>47412927
>so would it be okay to keep the default backpack and switch him back and forth between the roles between games?
nobody would care. if somebody gives you shit than they are just being a faggot and you shouldnt play them anyway