/srg/ - Shadowrun General

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>the smut filenames are back

das nice

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Small tusks are best tusks

I want to run a sci-fi game, with cyborgs and spaceships and gunfights. Is Shadowrun a good system for this, or is the setting too fundamentally entwined in the mechanics?

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>>46906659
>he can't handle a real orc woman

>>46906696
Too entwined, and honestly too shit. Play Eclipse Phase; it's shit, but at least shit meant for that.

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>>46906696
You'd need to be an expert on the crunch as well as having a good general idea of the fluff, both of which are quite an ordeal to become proficient in.
Having said that, when you learn the system and the fluff you can run almost ANY sort of campaign you can imagine, space included (not FTL or anything that like; strictly satellites and MAYBE the moon)

>>46906696
>cyborgs
in 4e maybe, in 5e no way
>spaceships
not really in any edition
>gunfights
oh yes

Have you tried Eclipse phase or Cyberpunk 2020?

>>46906636
Let's be honest chummer: How many of us wouldn't use the vast possibilities of the matrix for porn?

>>46906750
That's a man, baby, yeah.

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>>46906795
You're going to get a visit from the Sons of Sauron, you keep that up.
>>46906817 stole my more menacing picture

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>>46906848
I won't mind a visit from the SoS as long as they look like pic related.
At least you posted a female this time

>>46906772

> How many of us wouldn't use the vast possibilities of the matrix for porn?

How many of us wouldn't put their bodies in a coffin, with IVs keeping them alive, as our minds explore endless possibilities of the virtual?

I mean, I guess you can find work in Matrix, so funding it wouldn't be too much of a problem. Were there any mentions of such "Matrix communities" in lore?

>>46906750
>>46906770
>>46906772

So, Shadowrun's not the right system, then? I'll give Eclipse Phase a look. Thanks!

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>>46906918
Happy to help.
Kill all xeno's

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I always thought this girlie could be an example of a trog with troll reduction surgery would look like.

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Not a real troll, but close enough for the Humanis types that like fucking meta's on the sly.

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My last troll girlie.
We need some more meta-love up in this shizzle.

How far fetched is a runaway teenage technomancer as a character concept?

>>46907078
Not very. Kind wish that you could really use metatypes other than Dwarf, Elf, and Human for 'em easily, though.

>>46907078

Most TMs or Otaku will either be runaways or be in corporate control.

Considering they largely suck as characters it's really surprising that the corps care about them.

Same with AIs.

>>46907176
Technomancers suffer from a lack of program options, and really, really needing direct connections.

The near invisibility of Complex Forms doesn't help if you have to eat a few stun for every attempt against the die pools of a slaved-to-a-good-other-device device.

>>46907263

Honestly I don't really mind that the TMs are fubar because I play in a pre-Deus timeline so not my problem.

I'm not sure what can be done to fix them as they stand currently.

>>46907398
One simple thing is to make it so that instead of Resonance Program, it's Resonance Program Slot and they can buy a good number of programs for cheap. (And more importantly, don't need to submerge for that.)

>>46907430
But a more comprehensive fix would want to adress more things. Perhaps make Resonance a bit more relevant for the actual hacking side.

Or make them take a bit less damage for attack failures and so on.

>>46907176

In a campaign I'm playing, the guv'mint started kidnapping SINless technos in order to put them into huge sprite-controlling supercomputer, with their powers being controlled using modified ASSIST interfaces.

Generally, if someone's gunning for technos, it's either for sprites, or using them to puppeteer some shit.

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>>46906636

Why are motorcycles so sexy? I say every shadowrunner should always have a motorbike, or work towards getting one.

>>46906838

>that stance
>that gun
>that complete lack of trigger discipline

Are you trying to trigger me?

>>46908083
Hey man, the Koopalings didn't have much time to learn the finer points of firearm safety.
Either way, it seems they evened the playing field between them and Mario.

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>>46908065
All that power between your legs does things to a girl. And yeah, everyone should have a cheap bike at least if they have no other transport- you don't need more than a point in Pilot Groundcraft, you've got GridGuide to do the lifting and you won't have to beg the rigger for a ride.

>>46908132
Man, poor skittles.

>>46907537
In my game, one of the AAA companies is kidnapping SINless technos and are cutting them up to see how they tick, they're using the information to revolutionize the drone industry based on the research of an ex-AAA scientist.

The first run was the party intercepting the data at a "hard-site" and going back, but the decker had a run-in with a powerful resonance being destroying the host from the inside.

Technomancers are full of plot hooks, they're built like an nWOD bloodline, clan, etc that way.

Your idea is p

>>46908185

>Your idea is pretty cool too.

Sorry, my computer is being weird.

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>>46908185
>In my game, one of the AAA companies is kidnapping SINless technos and are cutting them up to see how they tick

Isn't that all the AAAs, especially MCT, in canon?

>>46908132

Exactly. Every member of the group should always have a means of independent transportation. And a bike is the most cost-efficient way to move from A to B, when considering that sometimes speed is of the essence.

So rev up those Mirages, chummers.

And a rigger should have a backup vehicle just in case

>>46906838
Why are they robbing Mario of his ?-blocks?

>>46906838
That girl's stance is asking for a cunt punt.

>>46908248
You can't tell me that a drug made of an Awakened flower that allows you to literally spit hot fire wouldn't sell. You just have to beat it out of him.

>>46908248
They are robbing Mario of his spent ?-blocks. Do you even see a ? on any of them?

>>46908223
MCT is one of my favorites. Is there a lot of stuff out there about the big 10 for the SR5 era?

>>46908283
Look closer chummer: Groin cover

>>46908283

No, just tripping. She don't have any weight on the foot she's pressing onto Mario, and you could literally push her over just by moving a bit.

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>>46908437
Market Panic is all about them, and honestly the AAAs have eclipsed every other corp. Even AAs don't get a lot of airtime anymore.

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>>46906995
That's an oni, omae.

>>46907033
I've got more tusks in mind for next Friday. Might not do requests, but definitely more coming.

Are there any nations where AA+ extraterritoriality isn't recognised? I'd imagine places like the Nordics would be quite resistant to corp influence, being the least corrupt places in the world.

The corps would naturally be in the area, stirring shit up, but if caught, they couldn't just hide inside their property, because the national cops would have jurisdiction even inside their arcologies.

Could increase the incentive for them to hire Runners to prevent them from being incriminated.

>>46908569
Both Tirs, most of the NANs, probably a few others.

>>46908598

>probably a few others.
Any particulars? North america is gay as fuck, and Ireland doesn't stroke my fancy.

>>46908638
Amazonia in South America

Probably some places in Africa and southeast Asia too

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>>46908638
Yakut, Amazonia (though they have loosened up for their allies after the Azt-Am War), France for a while but I think they caved.

>>46908656

I was thinking more along the lines of Europe and... Europe.

>>46908638
Quebec? Though I think that might have changed in 4E.

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>>46908681
S-K plays a shell game with what they own, so less of it is extraterritorial than one might expect, but it's still pretty much everywhere.

Any civilized country has surrendered to the Corporate Court rather than risk sanctioning and embargoes.

>>46908714
They gave CAT extraterritorial power, and I think extended it to the inheritors and eventually everyone after Cross fell.

>>46908714

I'm fairly sure Quebec is in North America.

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>>46908735
>pretty much everywhere in Europe

I meant to say. Can't deny the dragon.

>>46908735
>Any civilized country has surrendered to the Corporate Court rather than risk sanctioning and embargoes.

Is there anywhere where that's explicitly stated? I'd like to pretend that there are still some nations with a bit of a backbone left. And I think the Court would be willing to negotiate over extraterritoriality, since the embargo goes both ways.

Corps not being extraterritorial and having embargoed a country would open up some neat opportunities for smuggler activity though, so I might actually just go with that.

Hey,

Are there any places or anything to actually find good SR GMs?

Also, how terrible is SR as a system for me to try and introduce my GF to? She likes the setting but if new to TTRPGs in general

>>46908835
France refused to acknowledge the Shiawase Decision, thinking they would lead the world in fighting back against corporations, but the CC embargoed France for years and essentially collapsed it's economy, IIRC.
Nobody wanted to step out of line after that.

Corps lose a lot less than a nation does in an embargo, since they can still sell there services elsewhere, but the embargoed state cannot get the services no matter what, if it's a universal CC embargo.

>>46908884
>GF

Fuck off, normie.

>>46908884
>new to TTRPGs
>Shadowrun
I mean, it's a possibility, but Shadowrun is really crunchy.

>>46908900
At least use normalfag if you're going to be a dick for no reason.

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>>46908835
>Is there anywhere where that's explicitly stated?

Throughout a lot of the fluff. Check Sixth World Almanac, they mention in the history section of numerous countries that the CC basically waits until some kind of disaster strikes (flooding and earthquakes are common), then withholds support to force their hands.

>>46908884
It's not terrible, but easing a new player in through a combat character (adept or street samurai) is the best way to do it (helps if the rest of the table is vets who know their own subsections of the rules). There's a rules-light version supposedly coming at Gencon called Anarchy, so maybe wait for that.

>>46908899

So the nation essentially turns into North Korea lite, I get that. But even if the corps refuse to play ball, nations still would. And not everything is controlled by AA+'s, and there probably would be a lot of single A's willing to deal with the embargoed country to get an edge over competitors.

>>46908962
Sure, but getting embargoed by the AAAs is like getting embargoed by the member states of the G8 summit.
Other nations would play ball (or maybe wouldn't, to not slight the court), and AA/As could, yeah, but it's still a huge blow and would remove millions of jobs from the country at least.

>>46908884
The biggest thing is making sure that if you are the GM, you're well versed in the rules and maybe color code sections on the character sheet. Like highlighting attributes with a green highlighter, skills with a blue highlighter, decker, mage or rigger stuff with a red highlighter.

My girlfriend never played a pen and paper RPG before, but she loves Shadowrun. She's a down-right evil tactician, and she's really good at coordinating a team.

Shadowrun may be a little crunchy, but the nature of the game demands that players take initiative and do their legwork so it's more involving than D&D for that reason (even though the latter has no real reason for playing this way, it just seems that most players need to have their hands held these days)

>>46908939
>(flooding and earthquakes are common)
Not in Europe.

>basically waits until some kind of disaster strikes (flooding and earthquakes are common), then withholds support to force their hands.
Nations have enough funds and emergency services to deal with natural disasters. In the worst case, they could simply seize corp assets.

If the fluff is being really adamant on universal corp hegemony, I'll just have to overrule that.

>Sure, but getting embargoed by the AAAs is like getting embargoed by the member states of the G8 summit.

G7. Russia, remember? Speaking of which, they're being embargoed in the real world over that naughty business over at Crimea, and while their economy IS down by a huge amount, they're not completely ruined. I imagine the hypothetical nations opposing the corporate court would have a similar situation on their hands.

>>46909107
Forgot to quote >>46909024

>>46909052
I also have a binder with two cheat sheets for combat, matrix & magic.

Just action costs, dice, pools, etc. My games run smoothly and I'm quite new at DM'ing for Shadowrun

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>>46908065

Shadowrun doesn't really have hoverbikes, does it?

Which is kind of a shame, since hoverbikes are badass.

I know you can make one with the secondary propulsion mods in Rigger 5, but the rubber skirt just kills my Jet Moto dreams.

>>46909107
I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible to oppose the corporate court, just like it's not impossible for oppose the UN, but it's much easier and way more beneficial to you to play along, combined with the fact that corps are perfectly fine with greasing palms, along with how most people always grew up with megas being a thing (keep in mind the Shiawase Decision/France acting fussy was in 2001) so the situation is normalized at this point.

>>46909161
They would if we had proper "create your own vehicle" rules. Hell, there's nothing stopping a vtol drone or gyrocopter from serving as one.

>>46908900
Because I can get a girlfriend that is also interested in my hobbies


Gg, you really owned me.

I guess I'm a normalfag

>>46909178

The situation would require a significant overhaul of the nations' constitution, and if they are nationalistic enough, they could view their constitution as something sacred and worth fighting for.

I can't suspend my belief over top 5% countries just folding over and going "sure, giving corps free reign over our lands seems like a great idea!". Unless corps achieved dominance overnight, I'll just say the situation just never normalised in specific places.

Maybe after a decade, the next court would be willing to negotiate some mutually beneficial trade agreements.

>>46906570
Hey guys, im looking to join a SR campaign. Im a completely new player and would prefer something late night on the week ends. Anyone have any openings or looking to start up a game soon? Id prefer to play a decker who is completely new to shadowrunning so that I can roleplay my character learning the ropes along side me as a player.

>>46906696
Traveller, GURPS, Corporation, Nova Praxis, Eclipse Phase, Stars Without Number, Hellas ... there are many other options to consider before you poke a hole in the bottom of the barrel and consider Shadowrun.

>>46909362
Word of advice, make sure you KNOW-know how to play as a decker. The act of a decker breaking into a host, doing matrix stuff, and jacking out takes long enough as it is. Pausing to scan rules and programs and character sheets will lead to impatience in your group. this is coming from someone who also started out as a decker for the very first time


You could also start out as a combat-focused or face character. Those tend to be easy for beginners to start out with.

>>46908132
>you don't need more than a point in Pilot Groundcraft, you've got GridGuide to do the lifting
Even without gridguide, you only need pilot groundcraft for combat or situations outside day-to-day any-weather driving.

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Hey everyone,

Never played Shadowrun before but looking to run a game with a few friends.

Which edition is your favorite?

Which edition would you recommend to people new to Shadowrun?

>>46909679
Yeah ive read the rules pretty well, and I have a very very large background of RPGs (mainly D&D) so I know all about how rule hunting can slow down a game. Im a very mechanics focused player so I feel like ill have a solid grasp of the rules, its more the in world rules and lingo I wont be familiar with which is why I want to play a newbie character who will be learning this stuff as well.

So, I've always heard of Shadowrun, but never really looked too far into the setting until after reading TwoDee's storytime. Now I've got an idea for an opening run that I'm really itching to flesh out, despite my lack of knowledge.

Here goes:

I'd start by telling my players to make the silliest most cliched pink mohawk special snowflake drama queen characters they can think of, not getting too attached to them (in fact, it's best if they kinda hate them). When they're done with that, I'll give them the twist: they won't be playing those characters; they're be playing those characters' stunt doubles.

The first characters they made are actually part of a pseudo-reality tv series filmed by a small-time company in LA, and the *real* PCs are just random people off the street being paid to be shot up on-screen (with illusions and editing making them look like the stars)(but the *bullets* are real, of course). Introductions are done as co-workers in the break room.

The twist: it's a set-up. The 'actors' are using the show as cover for a *real* crime, and plan to use the PCs as scapegoats. Thankfully, they aren't very competent, and let something important slip.

But wait! It's actually a triple cross! The guy pulling everyone's strings deliberately set it up to give the PCs the best shot at keeping their names clean (relatively speaking). His motivation? He's got hidden cameras everywhere, filming everything. And he works for Horizon, while the company running the show is a subsidiary of a subsidiary of Ares (think Fox).

No matter what happens, Horizon gets a story to sell, and Ares looks weak.

What do you guys think? I like the concept, but am having trouble thinking of exactly what crime is being committed. (I'm sure there is a movie that follows this plot that I could use for inspiration...)

Is there anything special I need to keep in mind for making a character if I am supposed to be a tank/bodyguard type troll?

>>46910098
that's pretty fuckin' shadowrun actually, mind if i borrow the concept?

make it The NovaItalian job for ez ideas

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>>46909052
>color code sections on the character sheet

This is a really good idea for any new player or system. Match it up with the Hayek sheets for that extra mile.

>>46908233
>not being a car based rigger
>not committing acts of terrorism to get to your target
do you even a trunk filled with ANFO, Chummer?

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>>46910139

Try not to limit your character's talents to "tank." Being able to do something outside of combat (eg: sneaking, burglary, social stuff) is always a good idea, otherwise you'll be consigned to the van until shit hits the fan.

>>46910098

That sounds dope. Just to increase the involved parties to preposterous levels, the crime could be a raid or theft from a third megacorp.

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>>46909781
Current (5e) is always recommended for every system, because that's where you find the majority of new stuff, hopefully improved stuff, and discussion/people able to give advice.

>>46909299
They've had 70+ years, resistance lasted through the first 50 or so. Rules are already in place for embassies and other extraterritorial outposts, the corp zones are just... bigger.

Also, flooding is definitely common in SR Europe. One of the big things in the early Awakening was the toxic North Sea overcoming the Low Countries and pumping sludge along the rivers. Everywhere's a lot more wild and prone to natural disasters as Mother Earth wakes up.

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>>46910260
Not that anon but coordinating the run from the van and then shooting the place up when it all goes to hell is exactly what my character does Chummer.

Dorf Street samurai stuffed fulla cyberware with a background as a former mercenary. I make the plan, load up the ammo and weaps, drive the team to the run, set up the comms frequencies, go over the plan that I know you fuckers are going to ruin one more time, and then shoot the place up when the plan inevitably is ruined.

It's fun

>>46910153
>mind if i borrow the concept?
Please do, since I don't see myself actually being in a position to use it myself for several months at least.

>make it The NovaItalian job
Hm, a heist film to cover up smuggling something inside the fake gold bars, perhaps?

>>46910260
>Just to increase the involved parties to preposterous levels, the crime could be a raid or theft from a third megacorp
Well, I don't want to make it *too* big, since it'd be a one-off or the start of a campaign. But something smaller like that could work, yeah.

Players, how long do you take in real time and in game time to plan your run. What do you look for, what kind of legwork do you do?

>>46909781
4e/20th anniversary is my favorite, 5e is fine to start with now that they've fixed some of the stupider problems it had at launch.

>>46910448
To plan the run? anywhere from twenty min to an hour. To get enough intel to make a decent plan? We're talkin half a session or more, boys.

>>46909781
I'd recommend 5e.

My favorite is 3rd ed for stupid nostalgia reasons.

>>46910430
Essentially that's what I planned to do, really. Seems really fun, and I might keep a clock for when the run goes to hell to see if they can beat a record.

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>>46910430
>drive the team to the run

Wheelman is a noncombat role.

I'm glad that hanging out in the van works for you, but it was a little bit of an issue for the main combat guy in our group. He's a sniper street sam, and since our first two runs were effectively no-contact he literally spent two sessions hanging out in trees and on roofs rolling Perception.

>>46910448
After a session, GM tells the group on a skype group chat about the new job. We make knowledge rolls, matrix searches, and get new equipment during the week, as well as some downtime RP. That way, we don't waste time during the sessions and can get straight into the action.

>>46909299
The VITAS and other destabilizing elements helped a fair bit.

>>46910338
>They've had 70+ years, resistance lasted through the first 50 or so. Rules are already in place for embassies and other extraterritorial outposts, the corp zones are just... bigger.

>Also, flooding is definitely common in SR Europe. One of the big things in the early Awakening was the toxic North Sea overcoming the Low Countries and pumping sludge along the rivers. Everywhere's a lot more wild and prone to natural disasters as Mother Earth wakes up.

It's cool, I'll just refluff it.

>>46910446
don't feel like you're limited to 'classic' heists. maybe the NovaItalian job is about credstick smuggling and the 'props are actual sticks carrying triad laundering money. OR instead of the Italian job, It's Ocean's Eleven: "robbing" (for real) some NAN casinos. Maybe it's The Bank job: 2075, where the movie-heist uncovers some actual dirt on a megacorp and suddenly the actors need to move some seriously hot black book stuff while filming. Lots of heist movies you can look at and spin a shadowrun twist to. but the core idea, that a movie is being used as cover for an actual heist, is def. a solid one. I'll be using it for sure as a two-three-off for my episodic campaign.

>>46908835
>Corps not being extraterritorial and having embargoed a country would open up some neat opportunities for smuggler activity though, so I might actually just go with that.
How so?

>>46910588
>he literally spent two sessions hanging out in trees and on roofs rolling Perception.

Not sure what he was expecting specializing in sniping. His entire concept is based around doing a stakeout

>>46910768

Corps refuse to sell merchandise to country, country wants merchandise, smugglers seize opportunity.

Imagine if Portugal refused to recognise corp extraterritoriality, there'd be a shitload of illegal traffic between it and Spain. It could be even encouraged by Portuguese government.

>>46910810
this is why if you make a sniper they should be a bubbly or naive face as well

>>46910587
My advice? Get a retinal clock. It's dirt cheap and costs very little essence. My GM likes to put non-combat stuff or runs on timers without telling us sometimes (to be fair we can drag stuff out too much). First thing I bought was a retinal clock so he always HAS to tell me what time it is how long something took etc. etc.

>>46910588
Well it helps that our group is utterly incompetent in a charming sort of way. It's a long-running game and it was my first SR character to-date (and also one of 2 that hasn't died yet). I basically just said "I'll be a dorf tank with an assault rifle and learn the rules for other stuff by watching you guys do it". So far we've only had a single run that didn't involve me running in and pulling the asses of the rest of the team out of the fire.

Everyone else plays minmaxed niche snowflakey characters but they die before it gets annoying and the one other survivor and I pretty much treat it like hiring new teammates for each run.

>>46910866
>Corps not being extraterritorial
How does this bit come into it?

>>46910874
>tfw had idea for super kawaii SURGE weeb catgirl sniper

I should probably kill myself

>>46910874
>this is why if you make a sniper they should be good at things that aren't sniping as well

That's the problem with overspecializing; if there's no opportunity for you to do your thing, you may as well not even be there. My group has a decker in it who does nothing but browse the Matrix and try to hack things, so she's left with nothing to do if there's nothing to hack and she refuses to do anything else, not even carry a gun.

>>46910874
Or don't make a sniper. Make a point man / sharp shooter instead.

>>46910959
Refusing to recognize corp extraterritoriality lead to France facing extremely tough sanctions/embargo by the corporate court.

>>46910978
Thankfully, you generally have enough resources at chargen to do about 2 things well, for example face and decker, street sam and infiltrator, etc.

>>46910959

The original question was whether there would be any places left in Europe where corp extraterritoriality weren't recognised, and apparently there aren't, because the corp court just issues embargoes and happily cuts themselves out of national markets. So I'll retweak that a bit, and instead of corps being universally recognised as independent entities, there will be couple of nations where they aren't, which will be then embargoed by the court (since it's apparently something they do)

>>46910595
>skype
Corp whore.

>>46911000
Sure, but that's "CC response to countries ignoring extraterritoritality opens up smuggling opportunities."

Different to saying "corps not being extraterritorial opens up smuggling opportunities."

>>46910984
I dunno, I can see how a sniper/decker would work. Use your deck to hack into security, shut down alarms, remove blast shields, figure out where VIPs and security leaders are, pick them off one by one from behind cover, and provide situational awareness to the rest of the team. Very much a support role but I can see how it could be useful.

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>>46910960
>I should probably kill myself

Nah man. There's no need to be drastic. I'm currently playing a SURGE catgirl and it's been totally cool.

>>46911090

Anon, that just means you aren't capable of following the discussion.

>>46911120

That looks painful as fuck.

>>46910984
the problem with specialized roles like both snipers and deckers like in >>46910978
is that SR clearly has room for them in addition to more generalized roles like a point man/sharp shooter but their practicality is directly related to the group and gm. a really cohesive group ooc can take those specializations and make them work well together 9 out of 10 runs. but for the most part i agree with you, a more general or multi role position works better instead in the majority of groups.

>>46910960
Good, good, give into your kawaii tendencies and embrace the elf/catgirl/pixie wat do side.

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>>46911120
I played a catboy, but because I didn't know the rules for SURGE at the time, I just made him an elf and explained the cat ears and tail as cosmetic surgery.

It also explained why he was a runner in the first place: Medical bills are expensive.

>>46911098
Or a sniper/rigger, if that's your thing. Maybe even sniper/mage, with an optical scope.

Still, I usually subscribe to not splitting the party.

>>46911195

Splitting the party is a blessing and curse. It's easier to escape, but harder to defend yourself if you get caught.

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>>46911193

In Shadowrun, there's more than one way to skin a catgirl.

Bioware, Genemods, SURGE, Cyberware, AI/Decker/Technomancer with a catgirl persona, the list goes on and on.

>>46911169

Yep. No argument there.

>>46911186
>pixie

No way I'm nowhere near that cancerous yet

Am I the only one who is constantly irritated that despite all pixies coming from magical forests (which is retarded too), the second they get into shadowrunning they become ace riggers 99% of the time?

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>>46911400

I mostly see pixie adepts with stupidly powerful weapons - Monowhip Pixies, Sniper Pixies, Assault Cannon Pixies, etc.

Pixie rigger show up on /srg/ because its the easiest way to play a mecha-inspired character.

>>46911490
>Sniper pixies
>Assault cannon pixies
I can understand the monowhip maybe
but how do those even work

>>46911528
You get a bipod/tripod and some DNI with a smartlink then aim and fire.

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>>46911528
>how do those even work

Blatant disregard for fluff and a complete lack of any restrictions written in the rules.

So why is everything from North Africa through the Middle East (including Turkey, for some reason) written off as a fundamentalist Muslim hellhole full of terrorists and oppression?

It smacks of lazy writing.

>>46911631
Because the fundamentalist muslim hellholes took over all of those places and then jihaded up across Europe for a bit.

I wish Shadowrun had an official FATE hack.

>>46911606
Technically you have limit how much weight you can take with you. Practically they never bother to stat even approximate weight for guns and armor.

>>46910949
Where are retinal clocks in the books, or is that just something to say you have?

>>46911748
If you have an Image Link, you can just have a clock in the corner of your vision at all times. You can also overlay literally everything you ever see with whatever wallpaper/skin you want. I wouldn't suggest doing that on a Run though.

>>46911748
4e and 5e have it as part of the image link upgrade. 3e and under you need to buy a specific cybereye enhancement.

>>46911861
That's what I figured, but wanted to double check.

If you've bought thermographic vision and a smartlink but NOT bought cybereyes, is it just implanted in your retina directly?

>>46911748
>>46911748
>>46911861
>>46911874
>>46911879
Oh shit I play 3e I didnt realize there was a separate thing in later editions. Sorry for the confusion

>>46911904
Yeah, i think so anyway

>>46911719

Right. The limit is STR x 10 kilograms, and Pixies don't have an exception to that despite being like 2 feet tall. Sure, max Strength of 2 means they're not going to be carrying as much as a troll, but 20 kilograms can carry a sniper rifle easy. Does mean that they can't max AGI if they go for their 2 STR.

>>46911904

Yep.

>>46911400
I'm new to Shadowrun and don't know all the lore... Why is this bad?

I thought that the entire point was to take fantasy races out of their traditional environment and put them into cyberpunk roles?

>>46911904
Yeah, it's just an extra layer implanted into the lenses of your natural eyes.

>>46911970
Pixies specifically come from magical forests, and as such every single pixie has the "uneducated" quality, meaning they can't fucking read.

>>46911970
Pixies aren't a normal race in Shadowrun. Unlike elves, dwarves, and orks, which are basically just stable human mutations, pixies are actually an entirely unrelated race of primitive, isolationist woodsfolk who have a serious education and technology impediment. But players who make Pixie PCs tend to make them very technology dependent and often have them carrying gear that should be way outside of their ability to carry, like an assault cannon that is many times larger and heavier than the pixie that carries it, because RAW doesn't have much to say about it.

Anyone know what the stats are like on ex-Amish; those that embrace modern life vs those that don't?

>>46911279
I read that filename as "Biker Titty", and I guess I wasn't far off.

>>46911904
Yup.
>>46911970
Because they're two-feet tall magical hillbillies.
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22010.15

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>>46912129

If you're talking about current retention rates, apparently ~85-90% of Amish choose to stay in their community rather than leave for the modern world.

>>46912215

No. No you were not.

>>46912058
Either that or they min/max as mages or physical adepts and do a shitton of damage while being impossible to hit in return.

>>46912256
I mean of those 10-15% that leave their communities, how many continue to reject technology?

>>46912325
Why would they leave the community if they wanted to reject technology?

>>46912437
Why does it matter?

>>46912437
You can leave the commune but retain the values. It's about freedom. I'm sure they'd be welcome in many eco-conscious communes outside.

>>46912468
I mean, it just doesn't really make sense. Why would you leave a community that rejects technology to live in one that has technology in everything if you wanted to reject technology?

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>>46912325
>>46912474

Can't dig up any decent stats on that. Seeing as former Amish aren't really organized, I'd be surprised if there was any good source at all.

>>46912490

There's plenty of reasons you might be forced to leave a community. Perhaps you did (or were framed for) something unforgivable, and living in the community is no longer possible. You'd leave, but you'd likely still retain some values.

>>46909781
IT BEGINS!

5e is the newest and cleanest and simplest

4e has the most options and supplements

whichever is more important to you, remember the matrix rules and technomancer's are ass

>>46908472

SR has always focused on the AAAs with a little bit on some of the AAs like Lone Star.

>>46912542
I mean sure, but if you retained those values you probably would seek out another amish commune or such, instead of going to the big city.

>>46912550

2050s timeline + 5e rules with karmagen is best edition.

>>46910098
At first I was leery then you explained the twist and I am 100% down, dog.

As for what crime to commit, I suggest a good old fashioned HEIST, that way you can have loadsaplanning, multiple factions trying to get in on it, and give players something to worry about besides being triple crossed.

>>46912565
>>46912490
anon, you're doing that thing nerds do where they don't care about the actual point, and are just picking at any objection they can find in an attempt to shut it down without responding to it.

We both know you could come up with three dozen reasons for a pixie to use an autocannon if you tried as hard as you are trying now. Don't play dumb.

>>46912490
Sometimes they want less restrictions, not no restrictions, and strike out on their own.
I've consistently seen at least one presumably amish lady around here who wears old timey clothing and buys old low-tech appliances (Stuff like a hand grinder, and wooden blocks for her kid) at the local second hand stores but drives a car and presumably has running electricity and water at her house (Since there isn't an Amish or equivalent community around here).

Question, say I'm a rigger, jumped in to my vehicle, which has a flexible mounted gun on it.
While jumped in, do I use AGI+Gunnery or LOG+Gunnery?

>>46912743
LOG. You don't use your physical attributes in matrix.

>>46912781
So I don't use REA to pilot a vehicle either?

>>46912894
You use REA when use physical controls, be it steering wheel or AR interface.

>>46912952
I mean, being jumped into a vehicle, do I not use REA? It seems silly for every single rigger thing to be tied to LOG.

>>46912995
LOG is AGI, INT is REA. I believe it was somewhere in matrix section, but astral also use the same attribute substitution.

>>46913183
Doing a quick ctrl+f of AGI and agility, the only mentions in the matrix section are an example of using the Control Device action, which is firing a mounted gun on a drone and is said to be a Gunnery+Agility test.

>>46912220
>magical hillbillies
>>46911400
>ace riggers

...It all MAKES SENSE now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWOsBrHCUBM

>>46913340
well

my next shadowrun game is going to include a trio of ace rigger pixies, one in the tiniest pair of daisy dukes this side of the mason-dixon line.

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>>46913422

Here, you'll want to use this liberally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn8H8XZt954

>>46913293
>using your commlink or deck like a remote control or video-game controller
That's AR mode. But okay, I cannot find any info about using physical attributes in VR, so do whatever you want.

>>46913555
I'm honestly just curious, there doesn't really seem to be a lot of information on how Gunnery works as a rigger. Or just how rigging in general works in regards to what attributes you use.

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>>46910874
I've found sniper/rigger works well. Drones to tag along with the team and do drone stuff, and if necessary you can flush out targets and take them out yourself.

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>>46911631
Yes.

>>46911676
Also yes.

Personally, I'm constantly surprised that they passed up the opportunity to turn Egypt back into a Pharaonic state, complete with a divine monarch (possessed by a powerful free spirit identifying as Horus) controlling an Awakened Nile.

They had no problem cranking Latin America back to Aztec worship despite the Catholics, I don't know why they didn't do the same with another famous mythology despite Islam. 'Secret magic cult' can be played out elsewhere, where you don't have one of the oldest and most magically-famous civilizations going.

>>46914194
Also, using camera drones to mitigate the "firing blind" penalty to peg enemies behind walls with an APDS loaded AMR.

>>46912622
Fun fact- The Amish aren't prohibited from using electricity, driving cars, or anything like that.

Most communities prefer to generate their own power, as it helps them avoid the entanglements with the outside world, and they tend not to use many of the labour-saving devices we do because the labour is kinda the whole point of that strict branch of Protestantism- get up early, work hard, don't distract yourself with trivial things, and you're on the sure path to God's Kingdom. That said, they see nothing wrong with electric lights, or using a car when a horse-drawn buggy would be inefficient.

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>>46913625
Hayek- Understanding the nonsense of Shadowrun rules, so you don't have to.

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>>46914450
And two.

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>>46914491
And three for you.

>>46914344
Doesn't really work when target inside building. Better to use radar sensor for this stuff.

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>>46908083
No.
that was just a delicious side benefit

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>>46908065
Bigger bikes for badder babes.

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>>46908248
>>46908429
In the canon from the NES Mario1 instruction manual Bowser is turning the inhabitants of the Mushroom Kingdom into those bricks that are all over every level.
the same bricks that Mario is constantly breaking

>>46914766

Sorry, but that bike's ugly as fuck and the woman isn't loli enough.

1/10.

>>46914766
>not putting engine inside wheel
Such a wasted potential. I wish someone actually make use of this wheel design.

>>46914870
>Making the wheel heavy and unwieldy and putting your most vital part of the motorcycle in the place that will absorb the most impact

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>>46914870
they already tried it.
it was ok

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>>46906570
pls rate my first ever shadowrun character

How badly did I fuck everything up?

A. Nuyen
B. Skills
C. Metatype
D. Attributes
E. Magic

>>46915080
You're a Decker with 2 WIllpower. Prepare to die

>>46915080

Not too miserable.

Obvious thing is the lack of specializations on your Active Skills. For example, Specializing in Semi-Automatics for your Pistols skill is basically free dice.

>>46915080
Deckers use Int for a lot of things. You definitely want it higher than 2.

A DR 4 deck at chargen is massively overkill. A DR 2 deck with Overclocker is plenty. Spend some of that money on other stuff, because no one wants to play with the guy that is either hacking or doing fuck all.

Consider using karmagen if you're making an ork with a fairly broad set attributes.

>>46915208
I can only use priority to build with the group I'll be playing with.

You think the bigger deck isn't useful? What would I spend all that money all?

Don't I have good combat stats? Am I really useless in meatspace?

>>46915352

Can you convince him to let you use Sum-To-10?

It makes building orks way easier, since you can do things like BBCCE.

Wait, what do Riggers use to absorb biofeedback damage when Jumped In?
It says Willpower+Firewall, but what would Firewall be in this case?

>>46915352
>You think the bigger deck isn't useful? What would I spend all that money all?
... I misread that, and thought you were building more of a "fluff" character.

>>46915370
As far as I'm aware the one shot group im joining only allows this method. I'm more into the character idea than min maxing anyways but I get where you're coming from. I'm really just trying to get the bases covered and play up the spoiled rich kid with lots of money and fancy gadgets idea. Thia guy is literally a zero experience runner noob so I can learn about the game world as he does. so it makes sense if he's not up to par and super well rounded

>>46915410
Firewall of the RCC.

>>46915352
no, you do not have good combat stats. your agility is decent, your body and strength are virtually meaningless, and your reaction and intuition are abysmal.

even the most run of the mill corpsec and gangers are going to act before you the vast majority of the time, and they're going to hit you the vast majority of the time.

your decker shoots decently well with his pistol, but that only goes so far.

a classic option for a decker is a cyberarm and some budget initiative/reaction augs. you won't be a street sam, but you'll have a leg up against most people

>>46915440
Ahhh ok cool good feedback thanks. I'll move some stuff around and see if I can get that covered. Thanks for the tips.

>>46915430
So if you don't have a rigger control console, and just jump into a car, you only resist with Willpower?
Damn son.

>>46909233
>"create your own vehicle" rules
Thanks but no, oh God hell fucking no thanks!

>>46915533
To jump in you have to be in VR. To be in VR you need DNI and Commlink (or its bigger sisters)

>>46911939
Recoil will be a problem long before lifting up the lump of metal will be.

>>46915645
Tripods and smartlink control, omae.

>>46915533
If you jump into a vehicle through direct connection with your control rig, you use the vehicle's firewall, which is equal to its device rating. (2 in most cases.)

>>46915671
Insufficient. Tripod dorsn't absorb all the recoil, and something five times your body mass kicking against your shoulder is a very bad idea.

A firing platform that does the aiming, that would work. But now Tinkerbelle can lug two lumps of metal heavier than her around.

>>46915760
You could also just use something like a sniper rifle, at that point you don't even need to worry about recoil (unless you're doing a semi auto burst, in which case add gas vent 3 system and ignore it).
Strictly talking RAW here though, I agree pixies are fucking dumb.
There's also no rule stating Nala can't use a gun.

>>46915823
Naga*

>>46915671
>>46915760
An Aztech Crawler with Weapon Mount + Manual Control would work, if your GM ignores RAW on the matter and allows it.

>>46915760
>Insufficient. Tripod dorsn't absorb all the recoil, and something five times your body mass kicking against your shoulder is a very bad idea.

The bolt+BCG of the rifle weighs couple of hundred grams at most. Then you can add in muzzle brakes, or suppressors, which neuter the recoil to a very manageable level.

>>46912490
>>46912437
I dunno, maybe the rampant and unreported child abuse, molestation,and organized crime

>>46915930
On a "gun" that fires 20mm shells?

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>>46915841
>>46915823
>There's also no rule stating Naga can't use a gun.

I see no reason why not.

>>46916006
Nagas in shadowrun are just snakes, no arms.
Yes, that is retarded.
Welcome to shadowrun naming conventions. Did you know dryads had nothing to do with plants?

And that centaurs had horse heads?

>>46916006
Nagas are just huge snakes in Shadowrun. Sometimes with a more human face, sometimes not.

>>46916003

I really doubt precision rifle cartridges are actually 20mm in Shadowrun, that's basically assault cannon territory.

.338 lap mag or .300 winmag more likely, possibly .50 BMG.

>>46916023
>>46916030
god, don't get me started on how retarded things like mermads and centaurs and nagas and shit are in shadowrun.

>>46916047
I don't hate how they're in there, I just hate how Shadowrun just HAS to give them annoying differences. Most of them have zero relevance with most Shadowrun plots anyway.

Also, wasn't there a centaur with a human face on the cover of Run Faster?

>>46916059

The humanoid centaurs are actually the freaks. Normal centaurs throw them out of their herds.

>>46916033
Original post was speaking of assault cannons. A sniper rifle with smaller bullets would be easier to manage, but even then. We're speaking of a 18" tall little fey here.

>>46916059
yeah, I also don't hate how they in there.
My feelings pretty much mimic yours. The differences shadowrun has made from normal monstrous canon are almost universally awful.

>>46916082

Actually I think the post mentioned sniper pixies too.

Assault cannons are pretty unwieldy and heavy, even for stockier metatypes like dorfs.

>>46916082
>>46916105

And kids can shoot sniper rifles, but if we're actually talking about... 45cm tall creatures, then yeah, you have a point. On a stand, maybe, but otherwise nope.

Why are lasers so goddamn forbidden?
I want lasers so badly. SO badly.

>You cannot get extra arms normally, as the metahuman mind cannot handle the extra input
>However, from chrome flesh you can get a centaur body that gives you four fucking legs, or replaces your entire lower body with tank treads
???

>>46916127
>Why are experimental weapons that can burn through military-grade power armor so goddamn forbidden?

>>46916175
A basic Ares Alpha is better than a laser though, the only thing that lasers have is beating hardened armour, and if you load APDS in your alpha it is better at that, too.

How's this setup for a gyro rigger? All the programs are going to be shared to the two drones via RCC and I'm grabbing forbidden gear for the HMG.

Northrup Wasp (86,000Y)
(Hand 5, Spd 6, Acc 3, Bod 10, Arm 13, Pilot 3, Sens 3, Seats 1)
Power Train Mods:
+Rigger Cocoon (1,500Y) [2]
+Rating 1 Speed Enhancement (+1 Speed) (10,000Y) [5]
Protection Mods:
+Rating 5 Armour (+5 armour) (2,500Y) [10]
Weapon Mods:
+Heavy Weapon Mount, Fixed (Standard Upgrade) [0]
++RuhrMetall SF-20 (19,600Y)
(Acc 5(6), 12P/-4AP, FA)
+Ammo Bin (200Y) [1]
+Ammo Bin (200Y) [1]
+Medium Landing Drone Rack (10,000Y) [4]
+Medium Landing Drone Rack (10,000Y) [4]
ElectroMag Mods:
+Rating 4 ECM (2,000Y) [2]
Cosmetic Mods:
+Rigger Interface (1,000Y)
+Searchlight (800Y)
+Rating 3 Yerzed Out (3,000Y)

Rotodrone
(Hand 4, Spd 4, Acc 2, Bod 4, Arm 12, Pilot 3, Sens 3) (5,000Y)
Mods:
Armour +8 (9,600Y) [2]
Large Weapon Mount (3,200Y) [4]
+Ares Alpha (2,650Y)
(Acc 5(7), 10P/-2AP, SA/BF/FA)

Rotodrone
(Hand 4, Spd 4, Acc 2, Bod 4, Arm 12, Pilot 3, Sens 3) (5,000Y)
Mods:
Armour +8 (9,600Y) [2]
Large Weapon Mount (3,200Y) [4]
+Ares Alpha (2,650Y)
(Acc 5(7), 10P/-2AP, SA/BF/FA)

Pilot 4 Program (3,200Y)
Rating 6 Maneuver (Rotodrone) autosoft (1,200Y)
Rting 6 Evasion (Rotodrone) autosoft (1,200Y)
Rating 6 Clearsight autosoft (1,200Y)
Rating 6 Targetting (Ares Alpha) autosoft (1,200Y)

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>>46916191
I prefer to use EX-explosive ammo. Then I give it electronic firing and an extended mag and pretend it's an M41A pulse rifle instead.

>>46916211
Is your rigger a cute loli?

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>>46916139

>>46916211
Don't blow your karma on a restricted gear for such a cheap piece of gear. Get a LMG at chargen and swap for the HMG during gameplay.

>>46916229
No, he's a crazy asshole who flies around the barrens shooting up go-gangers with his heavily armored personal copter with flame decals, speakers playing extremely loud trog-rock, and a shark mouth on the business end of the HMG.

>>46916248

Then the first step is to make him into a cute loli.

>>46916139
Limnal body is a fringe case, and it doesn't really gives you extra independent limbs.

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>>46916229
>>46916249

>>46915533
If you're not slaved to a PAN, you use DR for Firewall. In most cases this will be 2-3.
>>46916006
Shadowrun's nagas are sapient magic-using snakes. No hands.
>>46916139
Because secret weapons are hard to acquire. The small amount of them that are available on the streets are typically failed prototypes, lucky acquisitions off the back of a shadowrun, or other similar small-scale purchase. Meanwhile the Ares Alpha's purchasable by pretty much anyone who can walk into Ammu-nation.
>>46916139
Liminal body's a bit of a fringe case, as it's a newly developed technology. Simplest justification would probably be that they've made breakthroughs in ASIST macros that allow for relatively natural movement actions but still aren't enough to compensate for the full range of motion you'd need for extra limbs.

You could always just ask your GM if you can get it as a bit of bioware, an extra motive brain or something that allows you to implant additional limbs.

So... how would one actually go about doing physical investigation work?
Without matrix or magic assistance.
I want to make a mundie private eye, and I get sort of what they are supposed to do, but no idea how to actually go about it.

>>46916386
Face with a bit of rigging on the side.

Sweet-talk (or bribe) people into revealing things and/or granting you access, and infiltrate a couple of snoopers where it's too hard for you to get into.

>>46916386
Not having magic is fine, but being a PI with no matrix knowledge in SR is ridiculous, matrix surveilance and investigation would be almost as if not more important than the physical.

If you're set on physical, pick up an RCC and spydrones, get B&E skills, microcameras, RFID sized microphones, etc.

>>46916386

A good amount of social skills (Intimidation for hard-boiled interrogation), Perception, and take some Knowledge skills like Crime Scene Investigation and Police Procedures.

Probably has some law enforcement and criminal contacts too.

Then you go hit the bricks. Talk to people, find out who knows what and what they'll want in exchange.

>>46916415
It's just magic and matrix abilities are both such huge karma and character theme sinks for a character that doesn't really focus on those things.

>>46916421
>>46916409
I feel like I'll need a robust stable of starting contacts all placed in seedier areas of the world.

>>46916023
>And that centaurs had horse heads?
Not all of them.

>>46916434

You can get by fine just with some points in Computer and decent social skills.

Have a decker/techie contact for cracking encrypted files and providing you with sweet spy gear.

Is there any trait or ability that makes you fused to your armor?
I want my run team to realize with horror that my hot dog outfit is actually my skin midway through a medical procedure.

>>46916446
Sweet spy gear is a must.
I am at least getting one enhanced cybereye for general detective work. Also so I can do that mysterious stranger red-eye effect.

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>>46916448

Have you finally found a group, hot dog guy?

It could have been a freakish illegal biosculpting procedure gone horribly wrong, but it wouldn't be what you're looking for RAW.

>>46916474
No, I will never find a group.
I will continue making hot dog men regardless.

>>46916457
>>46916434
I'd still recommend grabbing a C-K analyst (80k deck specialized in snooping) and dumping some points into hacking, unless you've got a decker contact or somesuch (he probably had at least someone for tech stuff before he met up with the party decker), contacts in law enforcement, criminal underground, even street kids (kids see lots of things).

>>46916139
what about natarki or w/e it was from 4th ed?

>>46916512
Nartaki are born with extra limbs. They don't get them added later on Dr. Octopus-style.

So, yesterday, I was in a game and one of my fellow players had a very, very brilliant idea.

We were hunting some ghouls in an underground place, and were told they were feral. We find some ghouls that are decidedly not feral and our combat guy shoots them dead when he finds them. Annoying, but okay.

They were at a gate/door of some sort and when we get to it and we overhear the "Feral" ghouls talking about the fact that their comrades are dead and to inform the boss. They, apparently, send some off and the rest decide to fuck us up, under the impression that we're just some gangers.

Their first action is to pour a liquid, which we identify as some kind of gasoline, through the cracks of the gate. This is where his genius plan happens. The gasoline got to us quickly and we were standing in it, along with some NPC backup 'cause it's a big job. Our combat character, before anyone can react, loads up explosive rounds and fires directly into the gasoline. That we are all standing.


He lit himself on fire and two of the NPC backups as well. The NPCs ditch us on the spot, leaving us with three people against an entire den of ghouls. His reasoning was that he got rid of their trap and that now we have the upper hand because we have guns.

>>46916575
Also, of note, is that we're Prime Runners that are supposed to be part of a special task force team, not some random shadowrunners.

File: 53b7d8a65eea1975069fc30c8652638c.jpg (799KB, 1200x960px) Image search: [Google]

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>>46916506

Hold fast, Frank. Your day will come, I'm sure of it.

>>46916595
One day.
One day.

>>46916474
Maybe it can be a surge mutation combined with a distinctive style?

I'm sure there's a hunchback mutation in there somewhere.

>>46916386

Which metatype would you be going for? If human, go D for metatype, A attributes, E magic, B skills and C resources. If something else, drop attributes or skills to get a decent pool of Edge. Having a lot of contacts would be really helpful if you're going to be tracking someone down, so don't be afraid to drop karma on contacts. Honestly, the number one annoyance I get when I see people making face characters is that they have a small number of contacts. Sure charismatic pull alone is pretty useful, but having an extensive list of experts to call is invaluable.

>>46916588
>>46916575

Sacrifice him to the ghouls and give them a video feed proving that he was the one who shot the 'ferals'. Unless there's some incentive for your team to run with a retard, he's dead weight at that point.

>>46916882
For the PI? almost certainly human with a relatively high edge.

>>46917014

DAEBC gets you 5 edge as a human. You could get 7, but you'd have to drop 4 attributes, 8 skills and 3 skill groups or 90k￥ cash. Not worth it at that point if you ask me.

Does walking around in an armour jacket set up red flags or is it inconspicuous? I'm debating whether there's any point to picking up armoured clothing.

>>46917087
Depends where you are, I think. Nobody will turn their heads in a shitty part of town, but walking around a secure corporate zone in armor (Even inconspicuous armor) is going to make security nervous.

>>46917087
Depends where you are; the less civil the neighbourhood, the more common it is to wear heavier armour and openly carry weapons.

>>46917087
Red flags? No. But depending where you need to go, you might simply be barred from entering for not respecting the dress code.

>>46917134
>>46917141
>>46917144

I mean, I can't figure out if it's clearly armour you're donning or does it appear just like a jacket from the outside. I'm assuming it clearly is a set of armour or you wouldn't have responded as you did.

To add to that, the 1e/2e Sprawl Sites pdf (see OP) lists general examples of laws, fines, and jail times you'd get for things like carrying a sword in corporate headquarters, or which part(s) of town the beat cops don't care if you threaten a civvie with a knife.

>>46917163
It kinda looks like a normal jacket, but they're super common because it's cheap and functional, so everyone assumes that the guy walking around in a heavy jacket is armored up. And they know it's so if you're walking around at any time of the year when it isn't cold out.
Basically, you're better off getting a couple types of armor if you're worried about attracting attention. Stuff like the fancy armored clothes for executives won't raise any eyebrows in a corporate enclave, even if it's functionally similar to the old armor jacket.

>>46917035
>>46916882
>Using Prioritygen
>Ever
>I seriously hope you chummers don't do this

>>46917203

So it isn't obviously armour, but people are going to figure it out anyway. Got it.

I'm going for the grey man philosophy, avoid attention in any way possible.

>>46917231
Get both the jacket and an Executive Suite. Switch between both according to the level of civilization of the place you're headed toward.

>>46917163
As a general guideline, if it's below 10, then it doesn't look like armour, or it hides well.

>>46916575
Now thats a turboretard

Shoot him in the head, feed him to the Ghouls, tell them he was the one that gave you false intel on the Ghouls being ferals.

>>46917217

You actually may be right, I'm finding it a lot more flexible to create bioengineered monowhip-using adept assassin lolis using karmagen.

>>46917658
>durr lolis

ThatGuy fuck off

>>46917676

But it's true. They'd be shafted for either skills or money with priogen, but with karma, I can make them a lot more well-rounded.

>>46917676
You're just feeding him. The loliposting doesn't actually disturb the thread as much as it's just harmless background buzzing that once in a while actually spawns a concept that could be used in a game if you aren't a grease stain who has to sexualize everything or play it full animu.
It only gets disruptive when you get mad, because then he gets his jollies. As a frequent shitposter myself, I can tell you that a good way to get him out of the thread is to ignore him when you can and pretend to be interested the rest of the time. He wants to shit up the thread, possibly to false-flag magical realm posters, and he can't do that if people don't blow their fuses at him. Let the retard talk for a while - it even seems like he knows the system, so someone with a brain and critical sense can filter out a character concept dreg or two from his shitting.

>>46917163
Pretty sure it appears like a normal armored jacket. Shouldn't be suspicious if ride a bike around, but it isn't something you wear to a formal party.

>>46917640
>Shoot him in the head, feed him to the Ghouls
Okay, bit of an overreaction

When does it actually cross over from 'I can't work in these conditions/this man is a danger to himself and others' that you're actually justified in icing another runner rather than just walking?

>>46917783

I (the loliposter, that is) am actually about 10% of the posts ITT. Posting about lolis is just extra amusement for me.

>>46917972
That's a pretty personal question, omae, and it will depend on the exact situation. Trick is, taking out one of your own is bad rep', no matter how justified it is.

Generally speaking, if all the consequences of their stupidity is a botched run, walk and warn everyone not to trust the idiot. You can live with the small hit of a botched run.

If their actions bring more heat down on your head though... Then you can consider it. Although using the idiot as bait for security/cops/... to gun for while you leg it might be a better idea than pulling the trigger yourself.

>>46917923

Not at all. He's going to fuck up somewhere later down the line too, so better get rid of him while you're still able.

Just looking for a quick confirmation here: bioware bought with bonus essence from Prototype Transhuman doesn't count as an essence hole, right? Ie you can't later upgrade those tailored pheromones and muscle toners to a greater level without incurring an essence loss, right?

>>46918143
Yes. This bioware is natural part of you, if you want to upgrade it you have to replace it with artificial shit like everyone else.

>>46918162

Yeah, I thought as much. As odd as it may seem, it actually makes it harder to choose, knowing that you can never upgrade the ware without incurring additional essence loss.

>>46917972
If said Runner is willfully (be it spite or stupidity) endangering the lifes of the team in a severe way and killing him improves your chances of survival by quite a lot.

Which in the case of this self-inflamer from above seems to be the case.
Plus, nobody can blame you in this case.
He got killed by a bunch of Ghouls, tough luck.

>>46918188
Synaptic Boosters LvL 2

You'll never upgrade these anyways.

>>46918210

I'm designing a super snowflake adept, so I'd be getting my ini boosts through Imp Reflexes 3.

>>46918216
Reflex Recorders? Nephretic Screen if you want to go the Way of the Drugs? Muscle Toner/Augment 2 becauseyou're an Adept and you can get the 2 extra points through Attribute Boost when needed?

>>46918255

I picked toner 2 like a good adept and also a qi focus for attr. boost. But I'm trying to juggle between things like adrenaline pump and tailored pheromones.

>>46908735
>No choking the strippers
Classy.

>>46912550
>4e has the most supplements
3e would like a word with you

>>46918348
And the most rules! Honestly 3e is underrated here. I personally prefer 2e though.

>>46918354
I occasionally preach the virtues of 3e on here, but it really seems that people are scared of having to spend a little bit of time on learning the rules, and would rather play the modern-fantasy games wearing the flayed skin of old cyberpunk Shadowrun.
3e had a far crisper metaplot without as much serial escalation, far better balance, more fluff, a more consistent cyberpunk ambience, more gear listings, a more flexible combat system and most importantly a more centralized, down-to-earth and roleplaying-conducive tone to the character concepts. It's a generally more solid and consistent game than the badly edited, high-flying magical-natives shenanigans of 4e and 5e, which obsessively try to cut out classical cyberpunk elements and replace them with clumsily handled modern elements. The new editions have lost their touch with what made Shadowrun worth playing - everything gets tied into magic, the metaplot gets further and further removed from what the average characters will be going through, the balance is flaking apart as Catalyst prove themselves to still be tie-in board-game designers at heart and the special-snowflake splats are tearing apart the mood and balance, encouraging making characters unique instead of interesting.
Neo-Shadowrun is very emblematic of all the worst parts of modern gaming - an obsessive focus on flash and "originality" hiding a system that's full of holes because the players aren't expected to have the intelligence or devotion to learn more solid and flexible rules (and thus will never learn while they're still playing Shadowrun Lite), with a dash of preachy sociopolitical commentary. There's no coherent mood or core conflicts anymore, as neo-roleplayers' obsessive cry for more and more "originality" has spread character concepts and themes so far that it's near-impossible for a team to have a sense of cohesion. Special has become the new normal, encouraging flash and attention-grabbing over good roleplay and care.

>>46918475
I mean I tend not to worry about the amount that one edition or the other throws in the cyberpunk feel, because I can make any of it work. I just think the 4e system is mostly non-functional and the metaplot got skull-numbingly boring.

I got a dumb newbie question.

What are Augmented Reality Objects? Are they just AR popup ads that you interact with? How long do they last? How private are they?

>>46918475
goddamnit, anon, if you're just going to make a line in the stand about preferring black trenchcoat over pink mohawk, at least be polite enough to mention it at the start so I don't have to decipher the dirty truth from your monologue.

>>46918701
> Are they just AR popup ads that you interact with?
No, they are more like billboards. They are usually scattered all over the place and usually placed where they are visible. Basically they are matrix objects that are displayed in AR.
>How long do they last?
As long as their source is there. This can be a RFID tag or a server. You only see them as long as you look at them though
>How private are they?
Depends. Most AROs in things like malls are public so they can reach a large audience. IIRC you can have AROs that are only visible to specific persons, but don't quote me on that

>>46918701
>What are Augmented Reality Objects?

Items that appear before your eyes whenever you wear something with an image link.

>Are they just AR popup ads that you interact with?

That's the default example, but a book you're busy reading or a movie you watch while walking is an ARO as well.

>How long do they last?

Until you dismiss them

>How private are they?

Depends on their origin. Aforementioned book will be on your comlink and private unless you choose to share it. (Or a sneaky Hacker 'borrows' a copy for himself). Ads, on the other hand, are as public as they come.

>>46918728
It's not a matter of preferring black trenchcoat over pink mohawk.
It's a matter of CGL making a game that has to be played with one's tongue practically through one's cheek to become good, as it's nearly impossible to run a sane and mature game of 4e without paring so much down in the system and metaplot that you could as well just go right back to 3e.
I'm not professing an opinion - I'm stating that 4e and to a lesser degree 5e are so high-flying, so disconnected from street level, so devoid of a coherent mood, so preachy and so self-consciously "cool" that there's little to no opportunity to play a serious game, and even a less serious game will be hurt by the focus on uniqueness over actual effort. When the special becomes commonplace, it becomes mundane and loses its charm, and to make it worse, it also eclipses mundanely positive parts about a character or a story. The CGL games encourage slapping so many special splats on your character that they become a pile of identifying traits and gimmicks that stand out at first sight but are hard to relate to or make work in roleplaying, as opposed to the 3e format which required players to make their characters stand out through making them interesting and relatable, giving much better roleplaying opportunities.
4e and 5e could be used for a "romp", in which one is just self-consciously playing a bunch of special-snowflake attention-whore gimmick characters, but both systems fail in anything else than that. They're both badly edited, inconsistent, horrendously balanced and full of holes, and the icing on the cake is the complete lack of a central set of themes or the requirement to actually have to work on your character instead of seeing how much Karma you can use on metatypes or special features.
If you want to play a serious game in which balance actually matters and which provides good material for roleplaying, there's just no other choice than 3e.

>>46918839
anon, your entire soapbox about how everything is too special is very anti-punk in theme, given how the movement and idea is all about differentiating yourself as loudly as and nonconformist-ly as possible for the sake of it.

>>46918814
>IIRC you can have AROs that are only visible to specific persons, but don't quote me on that
You can, as long as you give them a mark - at least that's how it would work in SR5.

>>46918817
>Items that appear before your eyes whenever you wear something with an image link.
About that, is any direct neural interface (datajack/trodes) considered an image link, or do you need cybereyes/glasses for that ?

>>46918864
That's wrong. Punk is about getting drunk and breaking shit.

Also making yourself different is not the same thing as being different because you were born a magical unicorn, but I'd rather not weigh in on that part of the discussion.

>>46918887
I just feel like you are entirely missing the point of the entire genre when you go on about this or that being special snowflakey.

>>46918898
>>46918887
futhermore, all your grandstanding about wanting to strip fantastical elements sort of takes away from the only thing that differentiates shadowrun from its competitors.

I mean, I agree that the new editions are shitly edited, but your ideas are also pretty off theme.

>>46918879
Yup. Sight and sound get sent to your brains immediately through a DNI. No need for extra gear, unless you want to share with a non-DNI'ed partner.

>>46918475
>>46918839

Lies, exaggerations, and opinions, the posts.

>>46918864
I assume you've never read Gibson. Please do and then come back.
I don't think you can reasonably argue that it isn't quintessentially cyberpunk to take inspiration from Gibson's novels, and in fact the "punk genres must be anti-establishmentarian and screamingly unique for the sake of it" screed is a later misconception.
The punk idea is about the temptation of power, the class gap, the lost and abandoned, the life on the bottom, the rich vs. the poor, the price of progress and generally doubting the state of society as it is. It has nothing whatsoever to do with trying to make yourself unique and irreplaceable, but it definitely doesn't have anything bad to say about it.
If you read some classic cyberpunk novels, you'll see that there are always a few characters who're nonconformist, but they're not in the majority. Laney, from Gibson's Idoru, is a typical cyberpunk protagonist, and this was before post-cyberpunk became a thing - he's the corp worker trampled by the system, and that's more cyberpunk than anything else. Proclaiming that there's only one way to become "cyberpunk" is perhaps the most anti-punk thing one could say.

>>46918934
Anon you're getting too caught up in the cyber, not enough in the punk.

>>46918879

The data jack and the trades are just the control mechanism. You need a way of perceiving the data. Image and sound links, either implanted or not are required. Alternatively, a sim module'll do the trick.

>>46918898
Ehhh, I can see where you're coming from but I dunno. Cyberware and attitude can put a character over the "anti-conformist" line, but like, I don't see a real connection to vampire and drake PCs making the system more or less punk.

>>46918914
Just for the sake of record my first post was >>46918887. I like Shadowrun having the fantasy elements (shit, when I run games I put emphasis on the Earthdawn connections). Honestly if I agree with that guy at all it's because I think that Runner's Companion was just half-baked. But that's what happens when you rush books out the door for convention season, I guess.

>>46918934
>Proclaiming that there's only one way to become "cyberpunk" is perhaps the most anti-punk thing one could say.
>there's just no other choice than 3e.

You are acting extremely anti-punk here, anon.

>>46918931
>I'm going to reply with a single-line ad-hominem because I can't deny how the game is played in practice or how it's written
What about trying to argue? That means that you try to prove why your argument is right instead of howling insults at the opposition and insisting that they're wrong because they're not you.
>>46918946
"Taking William Gibson as an example of cyberpunk is getting too caught up in the cyber aspect of cyberpunk".
It's amazing that you could get that argument from my post, considering I didn't really go into the cyber aspect that much.
>>46918959
If anything, that's what true punk is.

>>46918958
Yeah, I think we all agree that the new books are poorly edited.
But damn, that 3e guy is cray-cray conformist.

>>46918963
>By being a conformist, and demanding that others conform to my preferences, I am the most punk
Fucking hipsters.

>>46918918
Yeah, without image link you can't use your own eyes as camera.

>>46918934
Some of Gibson's protagonists are pretty pink mohawk for the sake of it, trough (Lo-Rez and the AI, the tribals in Jonny Mnemonic, the dolphin, etc.). And the metaplot going over Case and Molly in his first trilogy is high-flying as it gets. And the point of Gibson in both of the trilogies is the fragmentation of society due to the technologies, creating pockets of subcultures.

>>46918957
Nope, they work for direct input as well.

Core pg 222:
>DIRECT NEURAL INTERFACE
>A direct neural interface, or DNI, connects your brain to electronic devices.(...) DNI is also useful for AR in that you don’t need any additional gear like earbuds or an image link to see or hear augmented reality objects.

>>46918934
t. space rastafari from Zion

>>46918970
I mean it's true that the metaplot and setting were better back then, but like, that's just because 90's FASA had god-tier writers for most of the 1e to 3e cycle. I don't think the new fluff is doing anything fundamentally wrong, it's just a bit directionless because there's not the same level of talent on the team.

I'm just so sick of people in shadowrun considering absolutely bog standard cyberpunk or fantasy concepts "special snowflake".
Like, AIs? The only theme in all this that even has stayed present to the modern day? Special snowflake for some reason, even though they are often featured in numerous works.

>>46918864
That's a superficial part of the aesthetic, nothing more.
>>46918934
There's also less talked about elements like the DIY philosophy, and the increased porosity of traditional power structures.

It's also worth mentioning that there's usually a fairly strong element of contradiction in a lot of punk stuff. There might be a big faceless corporation, but it still tends to be represented in the form of specific characters. Gibson had a massive boner for animal/biological metaphors when talking about the corps. The characters might be outcasts, but they're as often as not working for the man, using the man's tools and societies. Punk, and particularly cyberpunk characters, have a curiously bromiliadic quality to then. Nonconformity isn't the point one way or another.

>>46918993
They're special snowflake-ey in Shadowrun because of the way they work in Shadowrun. Also the AI rules have always been horrible. Basically unusable, honestly, and it's no wonder because an artificial intelligence with no body is basically the definition of an unbalanceable gameplay concept.

>>46919015
Everyone I have ever talked to on the subject says they are significantly worse than meat versions at everything.
So, if special snowflake means "kind of gimped for the sake of a concept that is entirely standard in the genre", then I guess I'm just old and the kids have stolen my words from me and they mean entirely different things now.

>>46918993
A good book pro-/antagonist does not a good player character make, anon. This is roleplaying 101.

>>46918990

There's something to be said about the direction they took it in. I think the existing fluff is going to be a lot less cringe inducing in 10 years. 1st and 2nd ed are almost self-parodies. There's also the general contemporary aversion to metaplot. Even if the same writers wrote today, I think the setting they'd write would be pretty different. It's hard to say, Shadowrun's never had the issues that say, VtM had with metaplot, but direction was always going to be something you see more back then than nowadays, where the emphasis is more on shaping the setting and narrative on your own.

>>46919035
But many AIs are side characters that would make very good player characters.
I'd play the shit out of metal gear mk2 in an investigative campaign, no fucking question.

>>46919047
Well, the thing is, as always, talking about if with your GM.

I usually favour games with a lot of planning/investigation/intelligence/politics over combat because that's what my players ask for.

>>46919068
Honestly an investigation based campaign mostly works best with the smaller groups in my experience.
So it can be phrased as more of a buddy-buddy cop flick, rather than the heist movie that is the standard shadowrun.

>>46919034
They have a few rules that can be abused, and they're a giant pain in the ass for GMs. But really the core of the issue is that they were made to be demigods and raid bosses, not player characters. Kinda like shapeshifters, and vampires, and free spirits, and a lot of the things that cause problems because of half-assed PC chargen rules.

>>46919046
I mean it's like I said, I don't have any individual issues with the things they did really, I just feel like they aren't writing as well anymore. Plus there's a lot of books from 1e to 3e that I still use, cut-and-copy, without changing anything and they still work without feeling dated. Fields of Fire's fluff is basically just War! without the suck. Aztlan is one of my favorite sourcebooks ever published. It's just that when people talk about 2e and all, they tend to go right to like, riffing on Harlequin mostly.

>>46919047
>>46919068
I would also play the SHIT out of night rider.

It's a shame that they're mechanically so garbage.

>>46919086
>they have a few rules that can be abused
Even with those, everyone I ever talked to on the subject goes on in depth about how they're still shit mechanically compared to meat equivalents.

>>46919086
>Harlequin
To be fair, he represents the worst excesses of that particular period. NPC heavy grand guignol, major player heavy story arcs that tend to add in the PC's as something of an afterthought. Along with a certain amount of goofiness at odds with the ostensibly serious nature of the setting.

But yeah, playing through Shadowrun Returns really reminded me of the really solid parts of the older editions. Personally, the Bugs, and Winternight, are some of my favourite bits of the whole setting. If they added in anything Arcology/Deus related, that would have been the trifecta. Deus had just the right mix of crazy and macabre and epic to work. And when it blended in with the Matrix, and Technomancers, etc, I think it really showed off the setting.

Right now, I can't help but wonder if the fluff is being writing GW style. IE, from moment to moment to justify something that just happened. Apparently they lost a lot of material, and writers when Coleman stole that money. Considering that 4th ed was doing pretty acceptably until that point, I wonder if that was the turning point.

>>46919101
I mean kinda, it depends. Broken elves are more broken than broken AI, but that's not quite enough to say that broken AI aren't broken. But I'm mostly talking of 4e AIs, since I've never actually allowed a 5e AI-- Just the lack of a body is enough of a mess to deal with for me that I don't fuck with it. As a GM, I just really prefer to not use rulesets that are clumsy or obnoxious unless they add enough to really make up for it.

>>46919130
I mean there's also story arcs that did really well about putting the players in the action, like Bug City, Arcology Shutdown, both Threats books, Super Tuesday, and a few others. By comparison I just feel like the 4e/5e timeline lacks a really gripping story to work with.

Also, Winternight being gone makes me salty. They're such a great villain.

>>46919086
Why would they not?
You go directly for ripping on special snowflakes when you bitch about a system, why would they not bitch about your snowflakes?

>>46919174
From what I understand of the balance, a "broken AI" is basically an average meatbag equivalent, assuming the AI is optimal in every way it can be.

I understand not using the AI mechanics because they suck, because they do, AIs are garbage, but saying it's because they're special snowflakes is just a dick move.