/srg/ Shadowrun General- Afro Tradition Edition

>>46921693
The pastebin in OP

Is it possible to create a tyromancer in Shadowrun? A mage who uses stinky cheese to divine the future. Is cheese even available?

>>46921733
Synthetic cheese should be plentiful, and I assume the real thing is an expensive rarity.

Okay, new to Shadowrun: which edition?

From what I've read elsewhere, it sounds like 5e is better balanced than 4e, but the rules are more poorly organized and some... quirks get introduced that mess with immersion. Also, there's something about it being harder to make a character that blurs the lines between archetypes? (Then again, that quote was from when it was new; it may be fixed by now.)

Additionally, could anyone point me to some rips? (I'd buy them if I had someone to play with, but since I don't I'm really just fulfilling idle curiosity.)

>>46921701
Oh, thanks.
(Sorry, I automatically reposted me question on the new thread.)

>>46921810
For the rips, see: http://pastebin.com/SsWTY7qr

For the rest, two questions: do you already have a group (in sight) and are you going to be a player or the GM?

>>46921810
>Okay, new to Shadowrun: which edition?
Well, thank you, new guy, for throwing more fuel on the pyre of srg's holy war.

To be honest it's up to your group. 1-3ed are better if you like classic cyberpunk, with neon violence and the like. 4-5 is more modern post cyberpunk.

4ed is more polished of the two, but it it's matrix rules are labyrinthine and some roles underperform a lot.

5ed is more streamlined, but is a clusterfuck requiring GM to write his own splat worth of house rules or just ballpark stuff on the fly. Also some classes over perform radically and matrix rules, while far easier to utilise lost most of their logical coherence in favour of "matrix is magic and fuck your questions about basic operations of it".

I'm not mentioning what roles I mean because I want this to turn into a real edition war.

What is the troll on the cover of the Hard Targets book wearing for armor?

>>46921810
>5e
>better balanced
>than anything
wut

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>>46921825
>I like my runs like I like my elves: smooth, cultured and classy/fast and razor-sharp/covered in burning gasoline.

>I like my runs like I like my HBO: Full of big characters and happy endings/full of big characters and tragic endings/run by the Cryptkeeper.

I like my runs like I like my coffee: Sweet as sin and dark as midnight/cheaply bought and thrown away once I'm done/hot and inevitably spilled on my dick.

>>46921836
>For the rest, two questions: do you already have a group (in sight) and are you going to be a player or the GM?
No and either.

>>46921914
>Well, thank you, new guy, for throwing more fuel on the pyre of srg's holy war.
Sorry!

>4ed is more polished of the two, but it it's matrix rules are labyrinthine and some roles underperform a lot.
>5ed is more streamlined, but is a clusterfuck requiring GM to write his own splat worth of house rules or just ballpark stuff on the fly. Also some classes over perform radically and matrix rules, while far easier to utilise lost most of their logical coherence in favour of "matrix is magic and fuck your questions about basic operations of it".
Okay, so far it sounds like I'd like 4e better; complexity isn't an issue for me as long as they're logically organized (I play ASL).

>>46921810
5e has some trouble with rules, especially as far as universal terms are concerned. Splats are sometimes poorly organized, but the core is pretty solid (though it still has things like sensors).

I don't think there's anything to clash with immersion in 5e. I bet it's just metaplot developments that a fan of the old editions disagrees with.

I remember someone said that cyberware doesn't offer benefits as great as it did in 4e, so there's less reason to go with a chromed adept. Can't think of any other instances of being locked into archetypes.

>>46921941

Let's be honest both 4e and 5e are adept edition.

5e has the advantage of not making the decker concept completely redundant because a decker in a box is just as good.

Plus Prioritygen > BPgen

>>46921996
>5e has the advantage of not making the decker concept completely redundant because a decker in a box is just as good.
Okay, I've heard the terms before, but don't understand the context.

What's the difference between a Decker and a Hacker other than the names of the equipment they use?

>>46922069
A hacker refers to anyone/anything doing funny things on/with/to the matrix. A Decker is a "sub-type" of hacker that uses a deck (or pirated comlink/other device) to do so.

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>>46922069
Hacker is a broader term, more about the skill set - they can hack stuff, and in 4e it was fairly easy for anyone with a good commlink and agent to do this.

A Decker is a dedicated computer/electronic warfare expert, a strong archetype. Hacking is not just an ancillary thing, it's What They Do, and they do it well. 5e made it harder for anyone to just drop in and do the hacking work, bringing back the classic archetype of 'computer guy on the team'.

>>46921995
>cyberware doesn't offer benefits
As far as I remember it's because they are far more pricey than in 4e due to "lol metaplot"

Reposting because Archive:
I am preparing a Shadowrun game for my group, and I want to give them a small questionnaire before hand. I want it to be on the lighter side, so I am trying to get a few funny 'I like my Runs like I like my X...'
The ones I have already are:
'I like my Runs like my Steaks: Done short and Bloody / Black on the outside but Pink to the core '
' ... like my Sex: Anonymous and without adequate Protection / Blindly led by the Johnson / Quietly and with minimal meta-human interaction'
Any other fun ideas?

>>46921981
Good ones

>>46922137
It's more pricey, but then you also get double the money you were getting in 4e at chargen as well.

>>46921985
If you don't have a group, 5e is probably your best bet if you want to find one.
Virtually every game I've seen online has been 5e, and 95% of discussion here pertains to 5e.

>>46922137

Part of the problem is that cyberlimbs basically suck outside of 2 concepts (cyberarm of awesome and bulletproof troll).

Other than that there is still very much a role for wired reflexes but most adepts just go with muscle toner 2 and then just use power points to buy improved reflexes since improved physical attributes is way too expensive for what it does.

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>>46921995
>so there's less reason to go with a chromed adept

Chrome, yes, but bioware is eminently doable (and 90% of the adept advice on /srg/ is 'sacrifice 1 point of Essence for some init boosters and other biostuff). 5e has some hang-ups with 'ware if you're cheap, but there's a pretty good variety of pieces out there with Chrome Flesh, bio and chrome both get play.

>>46922189
>bulletproof troll
Go on...

How much Nuyen should be offered by a Mr. Johnson for a 4 player crew to do a kidnapping?

>>46921810
I mean any issues people have with 5e are honestly mirrored in 4e by something equal-- 5e has wireless bonuses but 4e has tard hackers. Overall 5e does learn a lot of lessons from the shit that 4e got wrong but it's kind of a judgement call. I tend to run 5e if I'm playing the newer editions but I change up the system a lot and some things are kind of cobbled together from multiple editions.

I personally think that 2e is the best of them, but it's not an easy introduction to the setting anymore.

>>46921985
>No and either.
Reason he asked is simple - looking for 5ed group is far easier than 4ed. Also GMing shadowrun if you haven't played it only works if your players haven't played much of it either.
>Okay, so far it sounds like I'd like 4e better; complexity isn't an issue for me as long as they're logically organized (I play ASL).
Well with all that I said in that post in mind, my personal preference is playing 5e with 4Aed corebook on hand for any rules confusion or conflict, because most 5e rules problems are caused by them being a shoddy copypasta of 4ed.
>>46922069
>What's the difference between a Decker and a Hacker other than the names of the equipment they use?
Hacker is more or less never used, but in general Decker is a hacker who works on the fly with a portable deck, spider is a hacker who defends buildings/hosts(sites) rather than being a criminal who tries to break into them, and rigger is a guy who uses drones for combat, he generally has some hacking skills to defend his drones but not much offensive wise.

>>46921995
I mean in 4e there was basically no reason to go with a standard all-magic adept over a chromed adept because the costs were so wonky. In 5e it's something of a choice.

>>46922169
Yeah, but even with the reduced price it doesn't really justify the essence cost.
For example, a single level of muscle replacement costs 1 Ess, and to get the bioware equivalent you need to pay just under double the cost (and 63K nuyen really isn't that much) for 0.4 Ess instead.
Then you get into things like cyberarms being horribly fucking expensive in both essence and nuyen (my houserule is that arms/legs only take 0.75 ess, and start at racial minimum+2 (so 3/3 for humans, 3/4 for elves, etc to represent them being the "average arm")
Then there's stuff like Rating 3 synaptic boosters saving you 3.5 essence for only 60k extra nuyen (and rating 2 saving 2 for 40k extra) when compared to WR of equivalent price.

>>46921669
Elvish Dickery Illusory Magic.
The character in question was fluff'd as an oldschool "elf" from the previous era that was Captain America'd in the ice until the 6th age. He was of the Tuatha people. Comparing long life and skill and grace and beauty and all that between a Tuathan and and Elf is like comparing an Elf to a Human, there is no comparision. Naturally the Tuatha would have an ego the size of the moon and constantly talk about how everything just used to be better. The character also had a hatred of all non-Tuathan elves unless they acknowledged him as their King.
The magical path of EDIM is one where you are always right and the world will bend to your point of view, as that is the correct point of view. You will always be a douche to everyone at all times because there are no other Tuatha you'll ever meet. But they won't care because you have a 24 dice pool for any EDIM plus a double-digit charisma and skills to match.
Your metamagic for centering will be singing songs in a language no one but you can understand because it's Tuathan. Bardish skills are a speciality of yours and you are sleeping with everyone because Tuatha-Life.
Just as Planned, I feel is critical to making this path feel right. Illusion magic plus the proper smug comment about your own divine foresight and skill in weaving such magical intricacies while, at the same time, putting down everyone else in the group and calling them smelly and ugly is a lot of fun when done right.

>>46922197
Cyberarms, legs, body, head, all crammed full of armour.
4 limbs + 1 body + 1 skull can fit 18 armour when you're naked, add in an armour jacket and a helmet you've got 33 armour. Top it off with ten body and 43 soak dice.
Add in a pain editor for extra fun (since all the damage you do take will be stun)

>>46921810

5e Pros:
>Better balanced (melee is viable again!)
>Best Matrix/decking rules yet (they're still rough)
>It's the newest and what most people are talking about and playing at this point

5e Cons:
>The editing. It's really bad.
>Technomancers got gimped hard
>A million things that really annoy specific people (wireless bonuses, CGL's ideas about guns, cyberlimb builds being weird, etc.)

>>46922193
>sacrifice 1 point of Essence for some init boosters and other biostuff

Nah, you sacrifice Essence to boost AGI or STR with muscle toner and muscle augmentation. The Improved Physical Attribute power is really ineffecient in Power Points.

Improved Reflexes is amazing and I don't know why any adept would take ware to boost initiative. I could see drugs if they were a really PP-hungry build, but that's about it.

>>46922230
Ehhh...
Improved Physical Attribute is garbage, so if you want better STR/AGI they just go with bioware now.

>>46922212
Even some of the 5e-specific issues actually take root in 4e. Like cyberarm becoming overpowered after they removed some limitations that 4e introduced.

>>46922264
you are usually better off using temporary boosters for STR/AGI in 5e, they are far more economical no matter what they come from and unlike INT/REA you don't need to have those high all the time.

>>46922197

It's pretty easy, you just go with a troll (for the high natural body) + 4 obvious cyberlimbs with armor additions and customization + Cybertorso + armor + customization

Layer on something like the sleeping tiger suit + argentum long coat + Ballistic mask and you are basically immune to small arms fire.

Throw on a trauma damper and you are golden.

It's insanely expensive but a lot of psuedo-cyberzombies are basically built around this chassis.

>>46922264
Yeah but adepts can get enough STR/AGI for it to not be a liability for them without, and they don't have to worry about it considering they can spend a power point on a whole lot more than just attribute points.

>>46922268
A better system for cyberlimbs is one of the things I wanted 5e to improve on that it never did, unfortunately. They did make cyberlimb armor less retarded, though. That rule was cancer.

>>46922254
You're right, I meant muscle toner. Don't know why I wrote init booster.

I do, it's because I'm shitposting instead of calling prospective employers to persuade them to give me an interview so I can get a job before the week is out and I don't have money to pay rent.

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Any cool traps you have protecting your bolt-hole or cool traps you've seen on a run?

>>46922292

Drug adepts are tricky depending on the access to combat drugs and your ability to tank the negative impacts.

It's still a valid archetype though.

>>46922253
Replace the Armor Vest with a Second Skin Armor and the Big Game Hunter Armor for maximal protection. The BGH Armor is the best Armor you can wear over the Second Skin, and with you being fully chromed gaining weight isn't a concern

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>>46922335
That just seems like a dick move, honestly. It's the GM setting up an obvious path that looks cool and fun, then punishing the players for daring to do anything without 3 Search tests and a 10-foot-pole.

But on topic, the Barrens are like Vietnam. Best hire a guide and walk exactly where they walk in an unfamiliar neighbourhood, or the ghouls will be eating well tonight.

>>46922381
Also gives the added bonus of being able to sink any boat by standing on it.

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>>46922384
>That just seems like a dick move, honestly
I don't mean so much for using by the GM against the player's, I'm looking at this from a PCs perspective.

>>46922432
>implying that's not a troll racial quality

>>46922437
I just meant the rope trap in your picture. 'Foiling would-be Tarzans'? Because God help us if a player tried to emulate a famous hero and do something fun. Not to mention I hate the end of the section, basically daring the GM to do something extra horrible to the fallen PC as additional punishment for trying to have fun playing this game. It Wickian in it's dickishness.

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>>46922478
Yeah, the writing isn't the best and it is quite dickish which does have its time and place, but I get what you mean. 98% of the time the GM shouldn't be a dick; iirc these trap ideas are from an old DnD newsletter or some sich.

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>>46922335
>>46922478
Have a treat.

>>46922478
One of the issues with traps is that they are inherently made to be dickish and low blows, so it's really really hard to do them well in RPGs, especially ones like Shadowrun with such high lethality..

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Thanks chum, have a qt on me.

>>46922551 meant for >>46922532

>>46922551
For a moment, I thought that braid was an arm.

/srg/, help me avoid being a terrible person. I've been watching Rollplay and Mirrorshades made me want to try Shadowrun. I'm gonna read the pbh and some lore stuff so I know more of the world outside of what Adam explains, but how different is actually playing the game from watching Rollplay? Do they do things in a very different manner, or does it generally reflect the experience you'll have?

Also, has anyone played in a game advertised on Reddit? The ShadowNET / Runnerhub shit seems cool. How did it go? Was it spergcity or a pretty good time? Would you recommend I look in Gamefinder or something else?

>>46922159
Another few:
I like my Runs like I like my Sex: Without them noticing / arranged by a sketchy Russian
I like my Runs like I like my Runs : Smooth and over quick
I like my Runs like I like my Drinks : Homebrewn and Burning / Distilled down to the essentials / Done with my Friends

>>46922573
Shadownet and Runnerhub fail in that they miss out on character growth and group dynamics since it's just a bunch of one-shots, there's also not any reason to have "downtime" stuff for your PC, because you won't have any downtime since the games are basically just the run.
I've heard they are also quite cliquey but I've never personally played there.

>>46922573
Runnerhub has a decent rep, it's just super hard to get into a session because there's a hundred applications for every slot.

Also, no PHB in SR (most games are nice enough to put the rules for everyone in one book, rather than needing 3 books for core gameplay like D&D), but read your character's chapters in the core book carefully and have a cheat sheet (there's the Hayek ones in the pastebin).

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>>46922545
>traps is that they are inherently made to be dickish and low blows
>traps
>dick-ish
>low blows
of course that's why we love em

>>46922574
>I like my Runs like I like my Sex: Without them noticing / arranged by a sketchy Russian

No "Lasting all night because you're not quite sure how to do it right?"

>>46922545
>especially ones like Shadowrun with such high lethality
Remember this is PCs using these traps against the GMs goon's. It's PCs using intelligence, planning and foresight to Just as Planned a situation.
That's exactly the reason I want to trap the FUCK outta an entire multi-story building.
It's easy as shit to get an HTR team to respond to a situation, so set the situation up so the entire HTR team is led into whatever traps are set up when they're tailing you, Just as Planned.
The part where the Black Trenchcoat turns Pink is when your whole PC team is now designed to do this one sort of thing, over and over and over.
Pink Trenchcoat is my new favorite

>>46922681
So you musta loved the Immortal Kenji Murisame.

>>46922622
>(most games are nice enough to put the rules for everyone in one book, rather than needing 3 books for core gameplay like D&D)
Sadly, shadowrun is not one of those if you want to play a rigger (or decker/mage, to a lesser extent)
Shadowrun has almost as much supplement bloat as DnD.

>>46922614
Yeah, the whole one-shot runs thing seems both a bit cool and lacking. I'd like to play in a normal group where I could get better at roleplay as well, but I don't know anyone who's interested in SR, let alone able to run it.

>>46922622
I noticed the huge amount of people applying, does seem like it might be a hassle. I'll probably still try my luck anyway unless I can find a game elsewhere before rolling up and submitting one to them.

Also since you guys didn't weigh in on it, I assume Mirrorshades hasn't conditioned me into being a That Guy?

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>>46922573

The biggest difference is that Rollplay was using 1st edition rules. The game system (specifically the dice rolling) got quite a bit less complicated in the more current editions, and the setting has advanced to the 2070's instead of the 2050's. This means things have kept up with times. Adam put a lot of emphasis on Shadowrun being future-80's without cellphones and stuff, but that's not really the case anymore.

On Runnerhub/shadowNET, I was basically going to bring up what >>46922614 said about group dynamics. One-shots don't let you grow those kind of group dynamics. However, you might end up running into the same characters more than once (characters don't disappear after a single run) so it's not strictly true.

From what I've heard they're pretty welcoming to new players and might be worth checking out if you can't find a more permanent group.

>>46922681
I mean, if there's nothing stopping the players from making traps like that, there's not much stopping NPCs as well (other than the fact that well designed traps are "unfair" from an OOC standpoint)

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>>46922696
Only from the meme.

>>46922697
well in SR's case it's more like
>you need these additional books to play a better character
not
>you need these additional books to even play at all

Also: no google, mood rings are not sushi

>>46922700
>less complicated
If anything, it got more convoluted as time went on.

>>46922726
>I mean, if there's nothing stopping the players from making traps like that, there's not much stopping NPCs as well
Isn't that part of the reason why your PCs have a high perception skill?

>>46922700
I didn't know that about the edition differences, thanks a lot. I'll be sure to read the 5e book much closer and note the differences

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>>46922697
Shadowrun bloats out with supplements, but D&D has that as well. The thing is, D&D makes it so that you need at least PHB and DMG (and usually MM) before it's close to a complete game. SR has places to go and avenues to explore, and a lot of archetypes get a bit shorted in core, but you can buy one book and start playing.

>>46922699
>Also since you guys didn't weigh in on it, I assume Mirrorshades hasn't conditioned me into being a That Guy?
Don't haven't watched it, so I didn't want to weigh in. I can assume you're a piece of shit if it helps.

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>>46922736
I think you'd have to be this guy to install that.

>>46922776
Probably a fair assumption

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>>46922681
Make your trenchcoat as pink as an elf's pussy, anon.

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>>46922803
>not posting the better version

>>46922752

The old threshold rules were pretty weird, and the 1st edition damage codes seemed extremely clunky in practice compared to the simpler DV math of 5e.

Haven't played 1e myself, just observations based on what I've read of the rules and also a few in-play videos.

>>46922763

If you want to watch some Shadowrun players using 5e, Hyper RPG and EnterElysium have Shadowrun videos with pretty good (ie, at least RollPlay tier) production values.

Okay, so new guy still here. I guess I'm looking at 5e to start.

So, suppose I wanted to make something like a hybrid of Bear Grylls and Chuck Norris, in a survivalist that's spent the last decade in northern NAN.

What would that be, maybe a Christian Tradition Bear Totem Beast Adept? How viable is that mechanically?

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>>46922838
I have both, I like the singular one better; more succinct, top-notch ideas.

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>>46922803
>>46922838
That's gold, qt's for all!

>>46922853
I mean the basic dice is a little bit more complicated but in practice, it doesn't take longer to judge the outcome of a roll, really-- And a lot of the mathematical complexity was reintroduced elsewhere in order to keep things from getting fucked up.

Damage basically was a hybrid of wounds and hit-points. I quite like it, honestly. Kinda the way it works out is, damage and AP are rolled into the same weapon stat.

I'm a 2e fan myself, I've never quite seen the point in playing 1e over 2e like Mirrorshades did.

>>46921996
>4e
>adept edition
>paying more for something a mage can just buy foci for and then completely roll you
>shamans
>overpowered as fuck starting races

I don't think so, timmy. You're right, but for all the wrong reasons.

>>46922254
Technomancers are fine. The difference between techno/decker is basically the same as mage vs summoner and setup times.

>>46922940
God, I remember self-buff mages in 4e. It was broken /before/ they got the Quickening metamagic.

>>46922854

A woodsman fighty guy? Sure, that seems easy enough.

Adepts can be good at doing basically anything (though not everything at once).

You going for an Unarmed roundhouse-machine, or a machete kinda guy? Guns? Noguns? It's all possible, just different approaches.

>>46922940
>Technomancers are fine

Uh, no, they're really not. They have one decent 'build' that's not too wonky, yeah, but that makes them far from fine.

>>46922972
Shapeshifter self-buff mage, instantly heal yourself whenever you feel like it.

>>46922989
One day I want to see if I can manage to make Max Willpower, Dwarf Technomancer, and see if I can get somebody to brick their own deck with a failed attack roll.

>>46922989
>citation needed

Technomancers can hack things from a distance that deckers simply can't without direct connection ; you can skip a lot of the challenges deckers face in the process ; and you can stack up bonuses.

You can't slug it out like a decker can, and you need to /not/ get caught, but they have definite advantages... if you don't approach it like a hamfisted moron.

It doesn't lead to cool matrix setpiece battles that were a staple of previous editions, however.

>>46923022
Well, neither did the 4e matrix, really.

>>46923022
You really don't have an advantage as far as noise/distance is concerned. A decker can pretty trivially rest on five ( three for most trivial) noise reduction, while four is a larger investment for a Technomancer.

Also don't have an equivalent of a Satellite, so a decker has a max of -5 from distance. And it can't be understated how important being able to swap in and out programs and attributes can be.

If a decker just wants to hide, Sleaze 10 is just not trying hard. For a Techno, Sleaze 10 is a big investment. Pluse the Techno can hide at least three, but probably more, devices with 'em.

>>46923113
Although, the noise thing is a bit less true because of Suppress Noise now being a standard matrix action.

But the Techno is still at a disadvantage because a sprite isn't going to be on the same device and so it probably can't make a Suppress Noise action for you like an Agent probably can.

>>46922978
I'm thinking primarily unarmed, although I could see him using a Combat Knife/Machete/Tomahawk occasionally. High caliber pistols as backup for when I can't close to melee (maybe hunting/sniper rifles too, but no automatics). Also skill in primitive weapons like bows and spears.

I want to know what fits in this category that's viable mechanics-wise in 5e.

>>46923241
Troll. Adept or not, you want to be Troll Bow. (Or Ork bow.)

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>>46923241
Generally you want to pick either Unarmed or Blades, as those have two different paths for adept powers (and the possibility of a Blade as a weapon focus, otherwise you need a different foci).

You could go Longarms and cut down a shotgun for something small(ish) and powerful, while also allowing you to have a rifle. As with melee choices, bow adepts are a specialized skill, so if you want to use a bow to kill you need to focus on it.

What metatype do you want?

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I'd just like to come out and say that I actually like Horsehead centaurs and snake Nagas. It just seems to make more sense that something that awakened purely from horse stock or snake stock would look like that. Though I prefer to make things even less 100% standard analogues to fantasy with cyberpunk hammered on.

>>46923298

You can definitely get Knucks as a weapon focus for Unarmed.

>>46923241
Spears are governed by your generic Blades skill, so you get a couple options within it compared to Unarmed (unless fighting styles from R&G make a lot of difference, sinec I think some of the skills are Unarmed-only).

I think Archery can be as good as Pistols, but I never really compared the numbers. And you'd probably need one of the hi-tech composite bows for that anyway. Either way, it's probably better to stick with one or the other as your main ranged option, even if you use both.

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>>46923372
Yeah, but that's not very woodsmanny.

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>>46923386

There's also Plasteel Toe Boots from Hard Targets. I think a roundhouse with the mighty boot weapon focus is pretty Chuck Norris.

>>46923431
Just be careful that you don't go too far down the Chuck path. For once you do, it shall forever haunt you.

https://youtu.be/bK6hb602588

>>46922854
I feel a Troll or Sasquatch throwing adept would be dope for that idea.
Throwing a twig or a rock that hits like a high velocity rifle bullet is great for hunting since you can choose to do physical or stun damage so your dinner is always 100% harvestable meat. Plus, you never run out of ammo.

>>46923482
And if you later take the right path, then you can apply the choke rules to penalize the target's defense rolls.

Question about bricking. If a smartgun is wirelessly enabled and a decker is bricking the gun, why would the defender use Intuition (in addition to firewall, which is understandable) in the defense roll and then device rating + firewall in the resist roll?

I understand that if a device that is supporting a persona, it may use a character attribute but why would it in the case of a smartlinked gun?

quickly going back to the '4 and 5e encoruage special snowflake" I assume i did good by telling my players that the wierdest they were allowed to be was a metavariant? I banned AI, free spirit, shapeshifter, HMHVV, and SURGE as character options. It's my first time running shaodwrun despite following the fluff forever, so i wanted to have a 'street level' episodic campaign.

>>46923571
The explanation is that if Int is higher than DR, then it's the owner setting better than default protection settings.

>>46923577

It's pretty reasonable.

>>46923601
The gist to me seems that if a device is in a "stand alone" mode, it uses device rating+firewall

If it is connected to someones AR/VR, it's Intuition+firewall

If it is someone resisting biofeedback, it's
Willpower+firewall

So would hosts then roll their rating+firewall? Or their rating x 2 [firewall]?

>>46923056
4e did, but it took as much time as a normal, separate fight. If you wanted to do matrix adventures it was better to have an all-decking/technomancer party.

Pretty much every edition had that problem.

>>46923113
>>46923155
You don't use just one sprite.

>>46923577
There's no real point banning AI. It's a huge point investment that you don't get much out of.

>>46923964
Other questions, do most opposed matrix rolls use DADA? That is to say, does the defender get to roll to defend and to resist? Or is that simply the Data Spike action that uses this mechanism?

>>46923295
>>46923482
Troll is a bit too radical for what I'm thinking; Orc could work well though. Sasquatch is an interesting idea.

>>46923298
>>46923373
>>46923386
>>46923431
Hm, looks like the idea is diverging into two more focused characters.

First is a Norris-style Karate Master, using Athletic Adept and focusing on unarmed combat. Secondary weapon is pistol. Archetype is Sammie with a bit of Face.

Second is a more savage sort of deal: blades for up close, throwing or bow for ranged. Might go more for a Mystic Adept here, although the archetype is more sammie with a bit of infiltrator.

>>46924086
It's not about banning things that are powerful, it's about banning things with fucktarded rulesets that don't fit in your game anyway.

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>>46924086

The point is keeping things simple. The AI rules are a mess that you don't want bogging down a new table.

>>46924162
There's nothing simple about that booty.

>>46923964
In general, if the thing's encountered unattended (like let's say a lock or something that had been picked up but not used yet) then the device resists with DR+Matrix Attribute which is usually Firewall, and Firewall is usually equal to DR.

If somebody's using it and they have relevant mental attribute greater than the DR, then use Attribute + Matrix Attribute to resist. If it's in a PAN or WAN and the hacker's not directly connected it uses the higher of the owner's mental atts or DR, and the master device's Matrix Attributes or the device's Matrix Artributes.

For resisting biofeedback, it's Willpower+Firewall if the device hasn't been bricked. If it has been bricked, then just Willpower.

Hosts don't take biofeedback damage, but would resist matrix damage with DR+Firewall if you were being a big enough risk-taker to attack one directly. Remember, that a host's firewall will be on the spectrum of Device Rating to Device Rating +3. For a mid end host this could mean that you're facing down 15+ dice.

>>46924111
Most Matrix Actions don't, because most don't do damage. Of the ones that do, you get to resist on both. However, if you're taking damage because you failed an Attack action, you don't get to resist that damage.

>>46924022
Yeah, but Agents don't (generally) have to be replaced when crashed and get to enoy the benefits of the programs on your deck.

Admittedly, there's some nice tricks with Sprites, but some aren't what you'd expect. Like the attacking sprite having a debuff power instead of a good attack power.

>>46924162
>>46924231
>Redhead
>Catgirl
>Booty
Diamonds

>>46924274
Thanks for clearing that up! That makes a lot of sense.

Other weird question, in the paragraph talking about Matrix Damage they use the term 'device' exclusively and multiple hosts may share the same server... Could you then deal enough matrix damage to a host to 'brick' it? It may have a larger dice pool than most devices, but I'm sure it would still use something greater than 8+1/2 DR for its condition monitor.

Sorry to be asking all of these ridiculous questions.

I am thinking up a Game at the moment, where the PCs would be reality TV stars in a show called something like 'Real Runners of Remington County'.
They would primarily stuff that's TV friendly, and not to bloody. I already have a first run in mind, as well as the 'Johnson'/Producer, but I would like some ideas for non-corporate runs.
An other thing that i was thinking about was some goodies as signing boni: camera drones for the rigger, nice smart gun with gun cams, that kind of stuff. How many ¥ worth would be a good sum to give everyone something of value?
For CharGen we'll do Sum To, not sure if 10 or 8 or 12, what are the pros and cons here? We have only ever done Priorities before...

Okay, how bad would a Mystic Adept focused on unarmed combat and use of Shapechange be?

>>46924434
>I would like some ideas for non-corporate runs.
I feel that messing with other reality shows would be tip top entertainment.

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>>46924434
Sum-to-10 gives you standard. S8 will make them low-tech and scummy, which is probably not the TV angle you want. S12 if you want them to be super awesome, but that's a huge investment from a TV company so these guys should already be world-class.

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>>46924434

Sum To 10 is priority, but more flexible. Helps out Ork and Dwarf builds quite a bit.

Sum To 12 is very high-power.

If it's a simsense production, you might consider giving everyone a simrig.

>>46924231
>>46924398

Have another, chummers.

>>46924494
Pre-errata Shapechage is more advisable that post-errata if you GM will allow it.
It works quite well if you grab Tiger form or Bear form.

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>>46924434
For the requisite 'emotional' episode, recovering a kidnapped child.

A chase down a highway after a go-gang is action-filled without being too bloody (cinematic fireballs aren't bloody). Rescuing slave labourers from a mine where they dig out ore (with a corp that is the rival to the studio's parent subtly blamed, with the necessity of filming things from certain angles to get their logos on equipment in the background). Diving in sunken LA for lost treasure.

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Old school redhead catgirls are best catgirls.

>>46924433
You could do that. The main things against it are the Device Ratings for hosts go from 1-12 instead of 1-6 (and under 6 means pretty small time), IC, and the high resistance pools.

Because of IC, you probably can't go loud against the host of any place more important than Palaces, Texas. And even then, if you don't fancy facing down possibly as many as six different attackers that can all do something nasty to you (oh, hey, your firewall and attack attributes both took hits).

The high ratings are deterrents because of the price of failure. If you failed the attack action, well you just took damage that you can't resist, one box per success you failed by. If it was a Sleaze action, the host knows that you're there, automatically found you despite hiding you may attempt, has started to launch nastier IC than Patrol and possibly Hound, and you can't hide until you can get rid of that mark.

But if you can get together a good multiperson crew, it might be possible to do that to something more important than the local library.

>>46924681
The DR for host definitely would offset a CM of 8+1/2 DR.

That being said, if you were attacking a host from the inside, if you managed to take it down it would probably give you dumpshock.

If you were outside of a host important enough, your regular OS would skyrocket and you'd probably be link-locked, traced, dumped and detained or outright killed by an HTR within 1d6 minutes of meat space.

>>46924495
Other shows sounds like a good idea, thanks
>>46924571
Right, saving children sounds great

As for the first Run, what I had in mind was a more involved affair, where they have to get into the SOX (The Campaign will be Europe, most likely Germany based, so it actually would be called 'Real Runners of the Rheinland' ) and get some antique MacGuffin. It will be a rather complex, but not too deadly or dangerous affair (if they play it smart).

As for the Producer, she will work for Horizon and be all the clichés: Very energetic, hands on and very involved, to a fault even.

>>46924867
True. But you should probably be willing to take some dumpshock (or be able to switch off of VR before the killing blow) if you're going to do something as ballsy as this.

>>46924886
Agreed, I guess I just think a condition monitor of 8-14 for a host doesn't feel epic enough, I'm surprised Catalyst never tackled this.

https://youtu.be/8wXBe2jTdx4
Bumping with a terrible clip from a terrible movie.

>>46924938
But a AAA host could have a defend dice pool of 27. It would be an epic battle with the biggest names of the underground.

>>46924886
I always wondered, can you link a disconnect switch to a biomonitor attached to you? Or would it not act fast enough to matter?

>>46924977
It also rolls 24 dice to do stuff (mostly through the up to twelve different kinds of IC it could have running), and destroying the IC doesn't do jack to the host.

>>46925054
The way the biomointor works, it would basically be too late. You'd get disconnected after something happened. Alternatively, you'd probably have it give too many false positives and dump you when you didn't want it.

>>46924938
Catalyst didnt tackle it because they don't want to put effort into making matrix sensible. RAW You can't kill a host because it doesn't run on a device but rather is a matrix entity only. Basically like a giant sprite with infinite health and special rules.

>>46925096
I think that's the more sensible thing, desu. A single decker killing a host would be like a Macbook taking out an intergalactic war vessel the size of a city; the scale is so off as to be ludicrous. You can't brick something that is distributed across servers around the world.

>>46925150
That's more a grid you're describing. A host could be the local Stuff'r Shack or the local library's catalogue and virtual space. It could also be the heart of the Ares building you're invading, and so is much stronger than those previous examples.

>>46921669
Why doesn't that nigger have a shadow?

>>46925357
Why do you think it's called "Shadowrun"?

>>46925357
There's objectively a shadow in that picture.

>>46925357
If it's in the real world, the answer's magic.

If it's in the matrix, the answer's the local matrix rules.

>>46925357
he does. Look a bit to the left and down of his left shoe. See the dark spot? that's it

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>>46925357
He does; it looks off because he's not standing, he's hovering.

Source: Have eyes, looked.

So, the hammer is either a Blackout or Hammer program. The monkey's either Babymonitor or Mugger.

What do you think the mandala is? Paintjob? Swerve?

>>46925523
Guard.

>>46925463
Is that the mage Kanye? The one with Ape Kanye? The casting spells Kanye? Or is it a Rigger Kanye? With monkey drones Kanye?

>>46925604
That's the great bit of the picture. It could be any or all of those.

Well, probably not all of them. Rigging's a big essence hit, even with a rating 1 rig.

>>46924938
I wish you would not call that cinematic masterpiece a terrible movie. You've done that in the past few threads and I'm getting triggered.
I'm typing this on a Gibson right now, bitch. You better do what I say or you won't get outta this with just a prison sentence

>>46925660
Haha, I love Hackers. Kind of in the same way that I love Strange Days, great concept, great characters, great ambiance, great setting, lackluster second half that dooms the movie into semi-obscurity.

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>>46925731
>Strange Days
I've never even heard of this movie. Google tells me that it's about illegal BTL's/personachips and it was made in 1995, so i get to view this movie with my 2e SR goggles on instead of my modern 5e goggles. I look forward to watching this and will watch it at the first opportunity available.

>>46922384
I wonder how many real soldiers tried some version of the 10ft pole thing. I mean when you see so many dudes get fucked up by boobytraps why no poke everything with a stick, just to be sure?

>>46926470

Problem with explosive traps these days is that a 10 foot pole isn't enough to be safe.

Not to mention IED's are often remotely detonated by nearby observers rather than triggered by motion or pressure.

>>46926202
Get your 3e SR goggles, it's a great movie but it's fairly edgy.

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>>46926560
I'm 40% bismuth chummer, bring it on.

So, stepping a bit back into obscure Matrix records, can anyone manage a better Firewall+Willpower than 20 on a non-AI character?

I think that AI can get to 29, but can't do jack otherwise, so it doesn't really count. ~23 is the limit if you also wanted to have decent decking pools.

Best Albums to get in the right Mood for planning some Runs?

>>46927415
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtSxNZeXlKg

For certain types of runs.

>>46927415
A great playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkIssHw5rao&list=PLyIFQr1wryPI6uj3BiTarGtcduk2ZG38N

>>46927415
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWfVfwz7rTM

>>46927415
https://youtu.be/ONKi2S6YBSU

What are the essential crunch books needed to play 5e? I only have the core.

>>46927789
Are you GM or player?

Aside from the CRB there is Run Faster which has more character concepts and creation methods and Bullets and Bandages. Aside from those it depends on what character you/the players are making

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>>46927789
Chrome Flesh for everyone
Run Faster for everyone
Data Trails for deckers
Rigger 5.0 for uh, riggers
Street Grimorie for the awakened

I feel like I'm forgetting one, but it could just be the blunts.

>>46927502
Mega City 1 is the best track from the 2012 Dredd movie imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-iZgkkGuME

Does Best Korea still exist in the SR universe?

>>46927880
I'm a new player wanting to learn the ropes. Thanks.

>>46927899
Thank you too.

Going to get the pdfs then.

>>46928024
Pretty sure it became a free state along with the rest of China's balkanization.

>>46928024
Nope taken over by the Japanese after their nuclear rocket failed (just like in real life)

>>46927899
Hard Targets for people who like to make other people more deader.

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>>46927880
>>46927899

Run & Gun. It's an armor, weapons, martial arts, demolitions, and called shots book.

Good for everyone to have.

>>46923241
Bow is actually pretty awesome if your character has maxed STR/AGI. Just go injection arrows full of anything useful, get yourself a machete and you can kill anything without making a single noise.

>>46927415
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEFcpyy_vq8

>>46922551

>all that junk metal on her face
Disgusting.

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>>46929500
you got a problem with junk metal faces, omae?

>>46929563

Aside from the fact that they're disgusting as fuck and should be ripped off at earliest opportunity? Not much.

>>46927415
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc8iu0XFUQc

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>>46921669

Incoming message
From: Bain
Subject: Job Info - Firestarter
Johnson wants us hit the local cartel for blood and money. I just so happen to have gotten word from a little birdie on where they stash their funds. But we gotta pull their teeth first.

The Cartel is shipping in a bunch of guns for an upcoming turf war. So we need to either destroy the shipment, or steal it. Preferably steal it, as guns have fantastic resale value.

Go with grace.

>>46929826

>crime.net

That sounds like an extremely bad idea.
>hey guys let's have all our known associates and operations on a file that can be hacked by the authorities!
>sounds great bob, let's make it happen!

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>>46922681
how much money would the average HTR team have on them in gear and used cyber?

>>46929826
I was about to say "Remember when Payday 2 was still good", and then I realize that Payday 2 was never good. It's an overpriced DLC-fest with a flimsy plot, shitty character animations, and a bunch of samey missions.

>>46929943

Depends on the quality of the HTR I'd say. The tip of the spear would have everything that even remotely enhances their effectiveness, all in deltagrade.

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Would this OCD be an example of a 25 karma negative quality?

>>46929943
Depends on the corp, the site, and the general location. Something akin to a swat team, with some cybereyes, a fair bit of gear, and maybe some wired reflexes and orthoskin. If you're hitting somewhere valuable, you might well have a bunch of Tir Ghosts or Red Samurai turning up, and the sky's the limit for them.

Is it viable to make a street sam that's all about SPEED AND DODGING with minimal armor?

Can said street sam also be really good at driving?

I sort of am making a character while listening to speedy speed boy

>>46930164
I know in 4e it's a 10 BP negative quality.

>>46929885
>That can be hacked by the authorities

That's a hard sell, Anon. Silk Road never would've gone offline if the admin didn't blab about his real information on a public forum. Bet there's already a replacement by now, so its not impossible.

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>>46929885
What is Jackpoint, ShadowSea, Shadowland BBS... Criminals gonna chat. Even Silk Road and various deepweb places IRL.

The key is to have good security and operate below the waves, so that there's nothing for them to hack because they can't find anything.

>>46930348

Yeah, but TOR isn't impervious to being tracked, and we're talking about a dystopic future here. And not just drugs, but actual high stakes crime.

You can bet your ass that some clapistanian alphabet soup agency would be grabbing all the exit nodes and track people by a timing based system.

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>>46930375
It helps that in this dystopic future, there's decades of internet architecture and two information technology apocalypses giving you plenty of places to hide. Also that some of the best hackers in the world operate the sites, and that many powers have a vested interest in preserving anonymity on said sites.

>>46930034
>>46930241
So hit the Ghosts or Red Samurai when they're doing some sort of escort mission or other business in unfamiliar territory (or as unfamiliar as it gets for these guys). Trap the hell outta the place you're fleeing into and harvest the gear and cyber at your convenience.
I can't wait to have my own rating 3 Tacnet. The 1.234 million nuyen pricetag always set me off, however.

>>46930414

But as masking technology improves, so does tracking. It's always a game of cat and mouse.

I imagine it wouldn't be very hard to observe the site and incoming data trails to it. Compare times of encryption and then decryption and you can eventually figure out who is who.

>>46930432

You don't just 'hit' a group like that. You're not understanding the scale here, you're just a private small group going after a much larger detachment with a full support from their legitimate governments or corporations. They're going to rip you apart.

All of them have decades of experience, augmentations, gear and enhancements. They live for that drek.

But do humour me and explain how you would hit a clandestine group of special operations forces like the Ghosts.

>>46930432
Why kill the HTR team?

Why not poison one with something minor so he's out sick, cause a distraction worthy of HTR response, and then steal the extra gear while the team is away?

It'll be guarded by normal corpsec, which is a lot easier to deal with.

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>>46930432
Be aware that the Red Samurai in particular are famous for recovering the bodies and equipment of their fallen brothers. Also, it's very rare for just some RS to be somewhere; they're usually ensconced in a Renraku military force of significant power. Even the ones pulling bodyguard duty are the leaders of the detail, not the entire detail.

Some other groups like Ghosts and Shorn Ones operate more solo, but good fucking luck trying to trap elite special forces with a nation/corp directing them. We're talking agencies worth of support agents, satellites, backup teams...

>>46930267
Yes and no. Yes, you can do it, but auto-fire is going to put a hurt on you.

Especially the burst-fire shotguns. With minimal armor they don't need to worry about the flechette's armor penetrating giving you a bonus, you're lightly armored.

And if you come across a Full-Auto shotgun, you are likely getting hit.

Oh, and it should go without saying, but make sure to duck when you hear the words suppressive fire.

Is there a lesser version of the "enemy" negative trait?
Like, "Rivals"?

I want to have to deal with go-gangs when I got out driving, but I don't want them getting so pissed at my racing skills they come to my house.

>>46930533
Hm.
I wonder how much armor I can get on there without compromizing maximum gofast.
I wonder how much capacity wheels would take on a piece of gear? I'd like to use a riot shield as a rollerboard.

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The hell is this clown fiesta of rules

Square root of the kilograms used? What?

>>46930533

See:
>>46930533

This, and also explosives on top of that.

You can be fast and dodgy, and I personally vastly prefer a character build like that like a cute loli using monowhips, but you have to have armour. There's so many situations that prevent you from dodging, and eventually your luck is going to run out. When it does, you're going to want that plate in between you and the guy shooting at you.

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>>46930587
>not putting wheels in your feet

You were so close.

>>46930587
If you can't find a way to put (at absolute minimum) an Armored Jacket, Helmet, and Gel Packs on there....

Well, expect to live fast and die young.

>>46930647
well, the riot shield with wheels is more for that situation where I want to GO FAST through extremely low cover.
Body louge!

>Yank_A_Yekka.trd
Wait, what
>>46930539
Refluffed prank war?
>>46930591
What, you thought demolition was supposed to be easy?

>>46930661
I don't think armored jacket and such will be so difficult to put on.
Just no, you know, combat armor or super heavy shit.

>>46930684

Our Mage has 10 'Purchasable units' of TNT, which is a rating 4 explosive, and I have no idea how to extrapolate the units of boom into kilograms.

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>>46930684
Oh good, senpai noticed.

>>46930716
And while you're at it, also get some armor mods. Anti chemical and anti electric are mains, but you should also get into anti hot and cold stuff.

>>46930758
I don't know about anti-cold, but I'm going to need a LOT of anti-hot.
Just because going fast often involves being on fire, jumping through fire, or catching on fire after the fact.

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>>46930676
Put skimmers on it. Faster, better drifting, and you can reflect bullets back bad guys!*

*You cannot reflect bullets. But the shield will stop them anyways, so it can't hurt to try.

Also, I don't know if there's rules for buying just skimmers, so you may need to cut the feet of a few razorgirls

>>46930591
4 times the explosives means only twice the power. Easy.

>>46930539
Take it at a reduced karma level. 4th had a bunch of different costs based on incidence level and enemy power. Something like Wanted might work in this circumstance as well. You could always just mention it to your GM not have it as a quality.

>>46930432
Be aware that'd put you on various lists. Looting a Red Samurai is a really good way of getting them to drop everything for vengeance. Nobody can be allowed to get away with that sort of thing, they've got too much PR capital and internal culture to let it slide.

>>46930830
I am glad to meet someone else who recognizes the value of surfing on a shield.
I'm going to need to have a long talk with someone about exactly what things I can put skimmers on, because it's going to be a LOT

>want to get into Shadowrun
>decide to roll up a char to learn a bit more about the system
>download the phb and Chummer
>skim phb
>start making a street sam, just so I don't have to worry about magic rules and shit
>everything going okay
>get to the buying gear section
>chaos
I feel like a kid in a candy store, there's so much shit, and it's all so cool. I literally have no idea what to buy, or what's even good. I feel equal parts depressed, because I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing, and enthralled, because of all the amazing items/cyberware.

I really wish I had started trying to learn this system earlier.

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hey guys I want to get into Shadowrun, iv even got a (vague) idea for a character. my question is what books and/or modules should i get for 5e besides the core rules.

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>>46931142
Read the thread starting >>46927789

Or at least tell us what the character is so we can recommend books.

>>46931124
Runnerhub wiki has a decent list of "standard gear" a runner should pick up, start with those but remember that Runnerhub has some houserules and the list is a guide.

>>46931142
Start with core only. If you /do/ add anything make sure its simple stuff like guns or magical traditions (non-possession) Don't make the mistake like my group did and start with more than core. Your GM will cry and be overwhelmed.

>>46931124
Okay, as a Street Sam, you want to get a good burst or auto-fire capable weapon, and get some 'ware that boosts initative. Cyberware does better for it if you're going to go all in, but bioware is better for a cheap fix if you don't have room

Consider getting a cyber-arm of awesome (it has your natural strength and agi, and as much boost to agi, priority, and str, non-prioirty, as possible.) If you don't have any ware in the arm that requires/needs wireless, then it can't be hacked in a reasonable circumstance.

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>>46931124
If you read Run Faster, the last 30 pages are various kits- self-contained packs designed for people like you who don't want to wade through the mess of the gear section. Grab a core pack of basic gear, a weapon pack, an armour pack, and maybe a cyber pack or two if you don't have specific choices for 'ware.

>>46931124
Gear purchases are somewhat based on skill distribution, with nuyen set aside for lifestyle, 1 Rating 4 fake SIN (and accompanying fake licenses) and initiative and agility enhancing ware

>>46931198
>bioware, cheap

>>46931198
>(it has your natural strength and agi, and as much boost to agi, priority, and str, non-prioirty, as possible.)
>it has your natural maximum str & agi plus 3 (plus 2 plus 2 with redliner)
Fixed.

>>46931263
Bioware has Synaptic Booster. It's cheap in terms of essence, which could be at a premium.

If it's not, then Wired Reflexes and a Reaction Booster will outdo it.

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>>46929581
>>46929500
Well, that's a about the least cyber, least punk thing I'v heard in this thread.

>>46929826
>Bain
>Firestarter
I hope he doesn't expect too much loyalty from us hired guns.

>>46931124
>I really wish I had started trying to learn this system earlier.
If you keep with it and learn the crunch, very shortly you'll feel the same way about the fluff.

>>46931337
Yeah RE2 with WR1 is like 2.6 essence gone. It gets worse with muscle replacement 2 and Aluminum Bone Lacing.

>>46931482
Deltaware WR1 is the same (essence wise) as Synapctic Booster 2.

If you can get that kinda scratch, Delta WR3 and Delta RE 3 is mostly pointless, but nice.

>>46931531
>Deltaware WR1 is the same (essence wise) as Synapctic Booster 2.

Its not the cost of Deltaware, its the difficulty in acquiring it.

>>46931577
Well, depending on the ware, it could be both.

But for most, yeah. It's more about being able to get it and who you're going to owe favors, then the cost.

>>46931188
>>46931198
>>46931258
Okay, thanks for the tips, I was seriously lacking in a point to start.

>>46931263
>1 Rating 4 fake SIN (and accompanying fake licenses)
Will I only need one? I was under the impression I should have at least two sins. And assuming from how you worded it, one license won't cover both weapons and wares, will it?

>>46931439
I feel like that already, it's probably one of the coolest settings I've seen.

>>46931724
Two is preferrable (one should just be a SIN for renting purposes and the like), but one is workable.

In general, you want one for each major R rated thing you have. If they're bundled, then just cover the outer-most thing as it were. (Like a cyberlimb with an implanted gun, cover the limb.)

Oh, and have a fake license for a job. It can help a bit for going around places and covering your ass.

>>46931724

You can use one as your primary fake identity, and then just go sinless for the runs. You'd be at a bad position to bullshit your way out of trouble, but at least your crimes wouldn't be connected to your alter ego.

>>46931766
Okay, that makes about the SINs, and thanks for saving me the trouble of having only 3 licenses for about 10 R items. But that last bit about the job license is genius, I never would have thought of that. Thanks.

>>46931890
A job license is probably the best prop for a Fast-Talk specialty in Con.

What am I doing here? I'm a bounty hunter, chasing a target.
What's with this thing? Oh, I'm sure a little nuyen can convince you to overlook that I forgot my license, as a fellow law enforcement person. (Don't try in corp lands. Or the higher security places in general.)

>>46931890

The item is only ever a problem if it is seen. Invest some skillpoints in Palming.

>>46931967
Then you'd also want to mod your commlink (or the device itself) to have some Sleaze rating so that you have a few more dice to keep it from being seen if you're running it silent.

>>46931990

Or just turn it off. You can pop it online when you need to use it, so that isn't really a huge issue.

>>46932009
Yeah. Really does depend on the item, though.

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Hey /srg/, I'm making a campaign about a secret group of ex-military soldiers working for Lonestar, S-K and another faction, wanting to wall off Redmond, District B-13 style.

Lonestar wants it to happen to throw egg in the face of KE, as well as gain a bigger foothold in Seattle, as the area would be zoned as one big prison, and Lonestar still holds the prison contract.

S-K exec wants it to take Ares down a peg, through showing the incompetence of KE.

I'm trying to figure out the motives for a third party. The leader used to live in Redmond. Maybe he's an ex Tir Ghost, that hates the poor? Maybe hes a guy that wants to see the gangs destroyed, so he figures he'll have them all eat each other like rats in a barrel? Help?

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>>46932056
Herr Doktor, wanting a contained area and population to do his experiments? The gang-hater works too.

Firetard from last thread here, any less drastic measures to take? We're supposed to be Shadowriders, so just shooting someone dead who is a team member and also supposed to be our team leader (Plan on revisiting that as soon as I can) is not on the table.

I want to have a run where halfway through the players discover a plot twist and the Johnson abruptly cuts all communication with the players, going underground. Now all the sudden there's no Johnson and both sides of the street are starting to pile up with KE and players have to make the best of a worst situation.

is this

Is this a good idea? There might not be a whole lot of nuyen involved and they may spend up resources and call in favors but it would be loaded with Karma.

>>46932056
I'm sure there's a market for simsense blood sport broadcasts. Capture the biggest and most dangerous gangers inside the wall, collar them with transmitters (and a bomb, for insurance), and name a prize. Whoever is left standing takes the pot and loses the collar. More chaos, more shit on KE's boots, and somebody's making stacks of money.

>>46932614
I can dig it.
It definitely forces your PCs to get creative with their plans.

>>46932700
That seems super illegal. Like, illegal even for 2077. The UCAS isn't great, but I'm pretty sure they're opposed to forcing people on their soil into Running Man. Aztlan is the only nation with broadcasted games that are supposed to be to the death, AFAIK.

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>>46932785
Meant to add
>and even in Aztlan they're volunteers.

>>46932785
Sorry, should have said so. Yes, it's mad illegal, but that doesn't mean it won't happen and be run through the shadows.

>>46932785
There's always urban brawl

>>46932135
>>46932700
Thanks guys, love these ideas. I also played with the idea of bugs, but I think I'll save them for the next campaign.

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>>46933132
But they only kill people accidentally.

>>46933089
Just that it seems super weird for Ares and Lone Star to go in on something like that, especially when the long-term plan is to keep the Barrens walled off. I can see them heavily recruiting from the Barrens for Wolverine Security, or even a themed Urban Brawl/Combat Biking team, but not trying to run a Battle Royale in their own backyard for what will be a very-difficult-to-monetize show.

>>46933225
Its actually 3 factions working together, SK to get one over on Ares, Lonestar to get one over on KE, and "Law Abiding Citizen" maybe making gangers fight each other to wipe each other out.

Lonestar would benefit by showing up KE, getting more money from basically owning a zone, and maybe get their Seattle contract back.

S-K would benefit by weakening Ares, and maybe open them up for shadowruns against the corp as Ares scrambles to deal with Redmond.

"LAC" benefits by getting his jollies off on gangers killing each other, and helps the other two factions by showing how inept KE is at keeping the zone under control while gang wars break out. I think this faction wouldn't use collars, but maybe implant cortex bombs, and maybe only in gang leaders and lieutenants.

>>46921921
Bump

>>46933447
My bad, said Ares instead of S-K. I don't disagree with someone manipulating gangs into fighting each other, just that broadcasting it on TV would be super strange and counter-productive.

>>46933461
It's futuristic cyberpunk armor.

>>46933225
Nah, they couldn't be in on the game. Whoever your third party is would be using their involvement as a means to run the area as their own personal arena, with LS and SK as hazards.

>>46933516
Yeah, LAC wouldn't broadcast it, just record/watch it on streetcams and through drones for his own sick amusement/vengeance.

>>46933684
Sell access on the black market. Who wouldn't want a ganger's-eye view of a frantic, bloody gang war?

>>46933992
A person with two eyes, presumably.

They'd want a two-ganger's-eye view.

>>46933543
Mechanically, though, what would a chest piece like that be?

>>46934053
It looks like piece of mil-spec or security armor. No one else use metal plates.

>>46934193
But the only security and mil-spec stuff is full body

>>46934985
Armoured clothing is as full body as military, considering no armour comes with a helmet.

>>46935528
"full body armour" has meaning in SR, as you can put on a helmet on it and seal it off from the environment.

Armoured clothing is not that.

>>46936310
No it doesn't. Military armour does, sealed armour does, but full body does not. From my knowledge, full body armour is never used in terminology. Also, to make military armour sealed you need a military helmet, not just any ballistic nylon deal.

>>46936781
>Chemical seal: Available only to full body armor that includes a helmet

>[ruthenium polymer coating] can be added to any armor or clothing, but it only gains its full benefits when applied to pieces that cover the wearer’s whole body, like full body armors

Anyway. As I was saying, armoured clothing is not that.

>>46937706
I stand corrected. There apparently is something called full body armour in the core book, but it's replaced by military armour in later books.

>>46937717
Not replaced; in addition to. Chemical Seal is from core, RPC is from R&G.

>>46937732
There's really no reason to get full body armour when military armour is around, but sure.

What's your Rigger's baby, /tg/?
Not the car they steal for a quick getaway or something the Johnson lent them, but the rig they've put their souls into.

For my cram addicted neo-anarchist rigger living in the barrens it's his Wasp and pair of twin rotodrones.
The wasp is highly modified with extra armour, a rigger cocoon/interface, a "bomb bay" where the twin rotodrones deploy from, and some pretty crazy speed upgrades.
Visualwise it's almost like a miniturizd Apache, with extra armour plating instead of a cockpit. Flame decals adorn the side (both paint and ARO versions), with the nose mounted LMG protruding from an A-10 style shark mouth.
In addition, it's got some huge-ass speakers that are either blasting trog rock loudly, or blasting trog rock louder.

>>46937771
Availability and cost.
Also, full body armour is only R and doesn't restrict movement.

>>46937833
Military armour doesn't restrict movement either.

>>46937918
What's up with taking the position of uninformed contrarian, m80?

>>46937963
Because you were actually wrong. Military armour uses triple your BOD instead of double, making it less restrictive. Full armour does not do that.

>>46938018
Ok. Except neither I nor the other guy correcting you are wrong.

>Features: Restrictive

So try taking it onboard and checking your shit first.

>>46938042
I'm looking at 4th edition, so I guess they changed it. Probably should have clarified.

>>46938067
Since the discussion was about Hard Targets originally I've got no idea why you were but alright.

>>46938629
I didn't even look at any posts from before the one I replied to.

I've wanted to play shadowrun 5th edition for a while, but me and my players are super intimidated by how complex the mechanics and character creation are. Any advice?

>>46939366
Just read the entire core if you haven't already, no matter what you're going to need to learn how to play the game.

Have some dice pool/mechanics resolution cheat sheets in front of you (even if you memorized everything

http://adragon202.deviantart.com/art/Shadowrun-Combat-Cheat-Sheet-426253037

The Hayek sheets are good too

Ask questions in /srg/, there's usually always an /srg/ and the game has a lot of support that way.

The only really challenging part of running Shadowrun for the first time IMO is making sure everyone is rolling their dice properly and keeping note character limits when necessary.
What I did for my first few sessions is highlight key areas on the character sheet.

Attributes = red
Skills = yellow
Magic = green
Decker/TM stuff = blue

I have lots of dice of these color, in trays were kept in quantities of 10 for easy addition. I also had poker chips and white dice for bonuses/negative modifiers.

So if the TM or Decker was running silent, they'd get 2 black poker chips to remind everyone that they got a -2 to their dice pool. Conversely if they had a bonus for hot sim, they'd get 2 white poker chips and 2 white dice added to their pool.

Another piece of advice I have for you is to have a compelling campaign hook, introduce it in the very first Shadowrun session (but don't spill the beans on it during the first session, build it as a multi-layered mystery with levels of intrigue) Something that can keep the players guessing, if you played Shadowrun Returns Dragonfall, you know exactly what I'm talking about. A big campaign with plenty of "one-shots"

The other thing to note is that character creation is relatively simple... Until players start purchasing gear.

A very important thing about learning how to play SR is looking at gear synergies, how devices are used in the 6th world and what devices are used. You have to be mindful of how the gear actually works and it will make you be able to run SR with confidence.

>>46939366
Also, check the OP for a character creation program called Chummer5, it's dope and I prefer it to the char creation programs out there.

>>46939366
Read up all the setting info, and play it in a system that's less munted.

Anyone know if Nova Praxis fits? (or has better suggestions)

>>46939366
Suck it up and learn how to use your brain.
If you can't devote yourself enough to the system to learn the rules, you aren't engaged enough in the game to play it properly.
The more complex the ruleset, the more flexible and nuanced it can be, and Shadowrun is one of the games where complexity is directly proportional to nuance. If you're not willing to learn the ruleset, you won't get anything out of the game.
Roleplaying requires effort, patience, concentration and devotion, and so does learning a ruleset. A good rule of thumb is that if you can't learn the ruleset, you shouldn't play the game. The game is made the way it is for a reason, and if you start skipping out on learning the rules because you're lazy or unengaged, you'll be too lazy and unengaged to enjoy the game the way it was meant to be enjoyed - and at that point, you can as well just play free-form or homebrew your own system.
I'm not even trying to be an asshole, just sharing experiences from many years of roleplaying. If you can't sit down, read the ruleset, learn it and play without having to consult other people, you're not going to enjoy the game. If you can't learn it in theory without help, you can't play it in practice, and no one will have a good time.
In the end, the most important thing is to tell yourself to quit being lazy and making excuses. If you like a game, suck it up and do like billions of other functional human beings on the planet - sit down and work on it. If you need to make excuses, ask for help or resort to a simplified ruleset, you're not going to enjoy the game and you're going to burden everyone else at the table.
It's really not that hard. Millions of people try to do things every day, and you can too.

>>46939587
> learn it and play without having to consult other people

To be fair, SR5 has really bad editing and there are some rules that appear as contradictory or poorly consolidated like the Rigger.

>>46939583
3e dude here. Shadowrun has always been swervy as all hell and yet, despite playing countless other cyberpunk systems, no other cyberpunk game has been able to replicate its ultra-violent charm yet.

That being said... I guess Stockholm Syndrome is a thing...

>>46939656
Which is why I don't touch 5e.
3e not only has a more engaging setting, more flexible rules, a more cohesive cyberpunk mood, less newbie traps, less unneeded special-snowflake archetypes and far better balance, but also actual editing. It's still janky, but it beats out the CGL editions by miles.
I really can't understand why anyone would select the CGL games over 3e out of any other reasons than laziness, Tumblr bandwagonism, desire to play special snowflakes or that their attention is grabbed by colorful pictures of "representative" characters. Sometimes you've just gotta get off while the going is good, and 3e is pretty much the optimal point to do so. CGL mostly designed tie-in boardgames before getting the Shadowrun IP, and it shows.
Most of the problems that this thread complains about, such as the horrible balance, the nonexistent editing, the contradictory rules, the dry and overly magic-dominated overcentralized metaplot, the countless unneeded or disruptive special splats and the ham-handed attempts to evoke the feel of the original age of cyberpunk, are either exclusive to the 4th and 5th editions or have gotten absurdly worse since 3e.
I'm not expecting 3e to be worshipped here - the place has changed too much post-Wil Wheaton, and so has the hobby - but if a newbie shows actual patience and willingness to learn, would it be too much to direct them towards Shadowrun instead of "Pixie Riggers, Cyborg Drakes, Changeling Dryad Faces, AI Riggers and American Nartaki with Extra Cyberarms Mow Down Hordes of Enemies whose Cyberware is for Some Reason Hooked up to Wireless and Bricked in Two Seconds"?

>>46939366

Start with 5e Core and exclude splats. Honestly you can play a perfectly decent game without the splats.

Exclude some options like TM because they suck outside of some rare edge cases. Consider having the Decker be an off-site NPC so you can just do hollywood hacking that matches the needs of the meatspace group.

From an ease of learning the system perspective a Sum to 10 method for building characters is probably the easiest but honestly I tend to push karmagen even though it's arguably more complicated because pretty much everyone will be roughly as powerful whereas prioritygen can result in wildly different levels of optimization.

Avoid cyberlimbs altogether they are needlessly complex for marginal benefit. Release that most of the augmentations are basically useless page filler and that about 90% of what you want will be roughly the same.

Magic is moderately complex but if you avoid the metaplanes and shit like allies you can probably power through.

>>46939761
We can still safely blame 3e for SURGE existing.

>>46939761
Retrohipsters are THE worst.

>>46939784
What the hell is SURGE?

>>46939761

Let's be honest though 3e Shadowrun had some fucked up rules in some places though.

Matrix was a shit show (although better than 1e-2e) to the point where most GMs just mandate the the Decker be an NPC.

3e had some of the worst excesses of the game as well in terms of the plot being centered around everything but the PCs. The lore books were typically better but man some of the plotlines were totally out of the range of all but the highest end prime runners.

Did 3e still have the 2 separate essence indexes for cyberware and bioware where half of the lower total added to the other one or was that a 2e monstrosity?

>>46939784
You can, but remember that it was a late sourcebook that was put out when everything was kind of going down the drain already. 3e core is about as solid and functional as you get with Shadowrun, and at the very least 3e SURGE isn't as horridly special-snowflaky, imbalanced and ambience-destroying as later versions of it. 3e SURGE was special-snowflaky in small, cosmetic ways and was more of a metaplot trigger than anything else that started new waves of panic and discrimination, while later versions are huge, bloated messes of vaguely related magical mutations that can be slapped on everything to make it more special and less balanced.
I'd rather play a 3e game with SURGE than a 4e or 5e game without, because the amount of special-snowflakery in all of 3e including SURGE is smaller than that in 4e or 5e core.

>>46939816
Pretty sure you needed a crystal ball to channel the inner thoughts of whoever wrote the rules on cyberlimbs in 3e.

>>46939816
Bioware was a mistake, honestly.

>>46939810
Please say why instead of firing off catchy ad hominem buzzwords. I was first introduced to 3e before I even knew that the other editions existed, so it's not a matter of me being a retrohipster and more a matter of me simply staring on in horror and disgust as CGL skinned the old Shadowrun and wore its hide.

>>46939816
2e if you just use the core is really clean. The sourcebooks just tended to be really sketchy rules with amazing fluff.

>>46939761
>Which is why I don't touch 5e.
Than your advice would be very valid if a guy you have responded to didn't ask how to get a hang of 5e.

>>46939818

5e Core (not including metavariants and metasapients and infected) can avoid being too special snowflake.

It's just that pretty much everyone in /srg/ prefers talking about loli pixie railgun sniper builds.

Still Mike Mulvihill was a much better developer than Jason Hardy.

>>46939844

2e init rules were fucking insane though.

That and stunballs were full on rape mode

>>46939818
>special-snowflakery
You keep using that word as though it is a quantifiable entity by itself.
Unless you care to point to the 4e corebook and give some examples?
Further, your posts paint you simply as a badwrongfun player that doesn't like what amounts to different options for players and gms existing, regardless of their impact or actual use.

>>46939862
There are things that I just require to be toned down but like, the game runs so cleanly without shit like the spell creation system or bioware or milspec armor.

>>46939886

Meh, I liked it a lot back in the day but a lot of the issues with it really bother me like the complete ability to roll through tough opposition assuming you have a couple of gotta go fast types and/or mages that can AOE blast through tons of mooks.

>>46939886
>>46939910

That and 2e Decking rules basically require multiple solo sessions.

>>46939910
>>46939919
I mean I don't tend to have combat issues like that, just by requiring some chargen limits and the way I run combat. and I can do 2e hacking alright, I dunno.

>>46939886
>spell creation system or milspec armor.
Which is in no core book.
>or bioware
Which doesn't even begin to be a problem, and is likely more apt to happen than the way cyberware is presented.

>>46939847
And the first post where I harped on 5e was a reply to another guy.
>>46939865
Look, if you can't see the snowflakes in 4e, I'm out of my depth.
And saying that I'm badwrongfun is perhaps the opposite of the truth. As a GM, I give a lot of dispensations and reward interesting character concepts - I like players doing something new and catchy, and it doesn't matter if I have to bend the rules a little bit to get there. However, many people (including you) seem to mix up "good characters" and "special snowflakes". It has nothing to do with me wanting to crush different options - it has something to do with those options being undesirable for roleplaying. A character becomes interesting through personality, habits, backstory and flaws, not through their race or their magical powers. Trying to distinguish a character through what you slap on them in chargen instead of how you write and play them contributes nothing to roleplaying, and is only going to end up disrupting willing suspension of disbelief while overshadowing more relevant and interesting roleplaying opportunities. You can make thousands and thousands of different, interesting characters who are completely normal humans - if not, literature would barely have existed. 3e pampers you and gives you base metahumans to play with, and on top of that it gives you magic and cyberware - but notice that simply making a character an elf does not give an equal amount of new concepts. You get diminishing returns from layering splats on top of a character concept, because they start grabbing attention on their own and demanding space that could have been used for personality, habits or flaws. When you start layering on specialness for the sake of being special, for example if you need more special options than the setting explicitly requires (Shadowrun wouldn't be Shadowrun without the base metahumans), they end up taking up space in the game simply for being special while offering few new roleplaying hooks.

>>46939949
Well specifically between 2e and 3e the differences are that there tends to be less augmentations/boosters per character in 2e, and the combat works a bit better for me, and I prefer the lower number of split skills with the defaulting map still being available. Which is mostly just personal preference.

The major problem with 5e is that 4e decided to get sucked into transhumanist bullshit instead of just leaving that niche to eclipse phase and other games like that.

The result is that 4e ended up with more of a Cybergenerations feel.

5e is basically an attempt at a soft-reboot to 3e universe but let's be honest most of the writers working for CGL are scrubs.

So we have a Cybergenerations type mess in the midst of a cyberpunk fantasy game which is okay and all but based upon the popularity of the HBS games I would venture to suggest that the 2050 timeline is more popular than the 2075 mess of a setting.

>>46939995
5e guy rereading 3e fluff.

It's not even close, 3e had the best writing.

>>46939957
Alright, anon, point out the snowflakes in the 4e core book.
I'll be here for about 10 minutes. Or maybe you can read posts before text dumping.
Further, you are taking the fool's stance that because something unusual exists, it is bad for existing, not because a bad player uses it poorly. You are screaming the anthem of the grognard when honestly, that day is past for a reason.

>>46939995
I mean I think you could just broaden this to "the main weakness of the Catalyst editions is the writing".

>>46940026

Well Ancient History and company were still involved for part of 4e before Coleman basically started turning CGL into his personal piggybank.

>>46939840
Because you willingly overlook any and all problems in your favorite rulebook, down to implying it has better balance and editing, or doesn't have its own splats that conflict with the core.

3e even had playable metavariants, shapeshifters and SURGE characters, and yet it's subsequent editions that are snowflakey, because their players actually read the rulebooks before talking about them.

Like, it takes all of a one minute to find out why exactly Wireless is a thing in-universe and what's the excuse for your gun and a particular piece of cyberware to be hooked to it, and it's pretty clear from game design standpoint why it's even a thing in the first place, yet you'd rather cling to an equally if not more dysfunctional rule system instead instead of reading up on it, all the while championing 3e as the last bastion of the truly cultured Shadowrun players who are willing to read and learn.

>>46940018
3e has some fairly broad social justice themes to it. I like how the metahuman descriptions are personal accounts of SR characters, I'm surprised that no one is calling SR3 the "sjw" edition.

They're talking almost exclusively about privilege and socio-economic disparities, I thought people would at least be frothing at the mouth at this sort of thing.

>>46940047
I still think the general trends were bad. Crash 2.0 was kind of just a sweeping execution of a bunch of plotlines that the game was better for having, the rules writing shied away from declaring anything about the setting and left the rules ambiguous and difficult to interpret.

>>46939957
>Look, if you can't see the snowflakes in 4e, I'm out of my depth.
Oh please mighty 3e autist in your infinite wisdom tell us: what exactly would we have to remove to make it NOT snowflakey
>And saying that I'm badwrongfun is perhaps the opposite of the truth.
Why? you are saying that people who play 4e or 5e are not playing the right game/ a bad game. That is my understanding of badwrongfun
>I give a lot of dispensations and reward interesting character concepts
In what way is that an aspect of 3e? Are you implying 4e and 5e GM's can't reward personality?
>it has something to do with those options being undesirable for roleplaying
why? Explain to me why picking a nonstandard race prohibits me from roleplaying.
>disrupting willing suspension of disbelief
so wait: dragons leading megacorps. A virus that gives magic powers and a virtual superintelligence destroying all computers, EVEN THE ONES NOT CONNECTED is fine. But seeing a person with cat ears breaks it?
>When you start layering on specialness for the sake of being special
Why do you assume that as soon as these become available people are going to create supaspeshul snowflakes? Are you implying 3e had no Snowflakes?
>demanding space that could have been used for personality, habits or flaws.
Again. why do you assume there is only a finite amount of space for these traits?

>>46940068
Social themes in highly exaggerated near future is nothing new to cyberpunk. I'm more surprised people complain about it in 5e when cyberpunk has always been SJW: the genre.

>>46940068

Pro-tip: Most of the time /tg/ isn't that reactionary especially in threads like /srg/ where most of the people are older players and GMs.

Yeah some people troll about transgender modification not causing essence loss but most people simple could not care less.

It's not like most people on /tg/ aren't closeted /d/eviants anyway.

>>46940021
Ten minutes is too short a time for me to download the 4e corebook, vomit a few times in the sink, brush my teeth, read the special snowflake entries and vomit again before posting.
And of course a good player can use those splats well - but from just reading one of these generals through once, it's clear to see why it's not a good idea to leave them in. For every good player who plays a pixie, there are ten bad players who end up playing a special-snowflake pixie with an assault cannon, and them even being in the system damages the community and hurts people's opportunities to find a good group. They're newbie traps in the vilest ways possible - they teach newbies bad roleplaying habits by presenting them with options that even the most experienced roleplayers would be hard-pressed to not fuck up. Newbies to Shadowrun aren't familiar with the mood and setting, and newbies to roleplaying aren't familiar with concepts of balance, special-snowflaking, positive screentime vs. negative screentime, attention hogging and even basic character creation. Presenting things that can scrag the whole ambience and balance of a GM's chronicle to newbies is not a good move no matter what, and in the end the game should have beem kept where it was about halfway through 3e simply because it gave them a limited toolkit. Even in 4e and 5e, you talk about newbie traps - it shouldn't be a foreign concept to you that a certain splat or role allows a player to shoot themselves in the foot when they really have the best of intents. Giving a player a limited toolkit forces them to try to find constructive ways in which to make their character stand out instead of picking and choosing off a list of special splats, and on top of that it teaches them constructive habits such as specialness not being the same as being interesting.
The idea of a shotgun isn't bad in itself, but if you leave a loaded shotgun on the table in a kindergarten, is it ever a bad idea.

>>46940101
It's not even the general dystopia that the genre warrants, reread the 3e core. They're practically tripping over themselves with liberal canards.

"Orks in most areas have difficulty finding employment, buying land, or otherwise supporting themselves within the larger community. Rampant discrimination leads many orks into lives of crime, as the only way in which to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. Young orks often band together into gangs for mutual protection in their harsh neighborhoods, and may turn on any outsiders"

Or this..

"than those of races like orks and trolls, whom many others openly revile. But the glamour
of elvishness is no protection against subtler forms of prejudice. I’ve lost count of the people who see us all as nature-loving daisy-eaters,
unable to cope with modern technology. Please, somebody, help the poor elf girl use the big, complicated public Matrix terminal! Or make a big production out of bringing some wilted
salad to the cute little elf, so she won’t have to soil her lips with meat. We elves know the sting of prejudice, but unlike our ork and troll cousins, we’re not supposed to express our anger"

1e had Native Americans taking over half of the US and Elf Nationalists and Ork Rights because Humanis were scum.

SR has always, always been about social justice issues it's just that instead of talking about racism via racism against Trogs the developers have decided to focus on different things now which just happen to be things that some /pol/tards like to troll about.

>>46940106
It's funny that I'm too old to understand where these reactionaries are coming from (counter-intuitive to our platitudes), especially since I grew up in the shadow of Gen-X cynicism regarding all thing Republican/Right-Wing.

It seems like you can't have a conversation without some delicate soul frothing at the mouth because you recognize that there are still racial/gender inequities.

Shadowrun has always been a very /pol/ bait setting, saying that any one edition is exempt from it is deluding yourself. I don't see why you are pulling this shit into edition war, because pixies/driads/etc aren't snowflakes in and of themselves it's just so happens that 90% of people choosing them want to play a snowflake. Trust me, elf snowflake is no less annoying cringe worthy than a dryad or a ghoul one.

>>46940088
>What would we have to remove to make it not snowflakey
Remove metavariants and metasapients, and we're pretty much there. I admit that 3e went downhill after a certain point, and that's when metavariants were introduced. They weren't needed in the earlier editions, which are the most iconic ones for a reason, and sometimes you just have to leave good enough alone if it works instead of trying to tack bells and whistles on it until the original product can't even be used.
>your understanding of badwrongfun
That explains it. Badwrongfun is decrying people for having fun in a way that you're not having. What I'm doing is explaining to you why the newer editions are supporting undesirable trends in roleplaying, not that you're wrong for having fun with it. That's bad enough, since it makes you parrot a degenerative game to other people, but that's not my point.
>Are you implying
No. The only thing I was saying was that I wasn't a badwrongfun GM.
>Explain
They overshadow the personal, "human" parts of your character, which are what fuels roleplaying. Unless you're roleplaying a hideous stereotype, you don't "roleplay a pixie" - you roleplay a person who happens to be a pixie, and the fact that they're a pixie means that they grab a lot of attention simply for existing. You might be some sort of miracle player, but most players want some sort of screentime, and getting it from slapping a splat onto their character reduces their initiative to play their character in an interesting way that also gives other people play. Every moment you spend mentioning that you're a pixie is a moment of roleplaying wasted.
>So wait
The more I read of your post, the more I get that you have no idea of narrative or drama. It breaks willing suspension of disbelief because it grates with the existing themes and established norms of the setting, and thus the unfitting elements stand out because they don't blend into a cohesive whole.

>>46940223

I tend to agree it's just that /srg/ gets dominated by retards looking to build either game-breaking builds like dryad pornomancers or pixie snipers or demands for help building their snowflake lolicon builds.

Personally I tend to avoid allowing some of the more unusual options into the game as PC options mainly because many of them are poorly balanced.

That being said I think there really isn't enough differentiation between orks and dorfs in the base rules so I've largely gone to using a modified gnome (no neoteny or arcane arrester) as the default dorf and a modified oni (no red skin) as the default ork. I'm still trying to come up with a better elf and troll but I haven't been 100% happy with the results thus far because elves are still overcosted and trolls get totally boned in karmagen.

>>46940304
>it's just that /srg/ gets dominated by retards looking to build either game-breaking builds like dryad pornomancers or pixie snipers or demands for help building their snowflake lolicon builds
It's not even that - there are a lot of people on srg who don't need advice on builds. What's would be the point of me linking my rigger here to ask for advice if I don't feel I need any. Thus it results in a situation where most "help me build" is from new players, or players who are trying to build something silly, possibly for the sake of it (there was a driad bioadept few threads ago build under "lets see how stupid we can make it" banner).

>>46939816
I seem to recall a bioware index based on a character's body attribute. So that troll with 13 body has 13 "bioware essence" PLUS his regular 6 essence for cyberware.

>>46940246
>They overshadow the personal, "human" parts of your character, which are what fuels roleplaying. Unless you're roleplaying a hideous stereotype, you don't "roleplay a pixie" - you roleplay a person who happens to be a pixie, and the fact that they're a pixie means that they grab a lot of attention simply for existing. You might be some sort of miracle player, but most players want some sort of screentime, and getting it from slapping a splat onto their character reduces their initiative to play their character in an interesting way that also gives other people play. Every moment you spend mentioning that you're a pixie is a moment of roleplaying wasted.

You are pretty much describing a troll here, though. Or are core races exempt from being snowflakey because they have been featured in the very first rulebook you read?

>>46940246
Badwrongfun is also saying that your gamestyle is and undesirable trend
>you don't roleplay a pixie
and you don't roleplay a metatype, you are roleplaying a person who happens to be a elf/ork/dwarf/troll. Or are you implying that playing a dwarf or troll and a human is the same?
>getting it from slapping a splat onto their character reduces their initiative to play their character in an interesting way
why? what does it mean that you can perfectly play a ghoul, a flesh eating monster, shunned by society and hard to live with, but playing a tiny winged humanoid steals the show? What prevents others from getting the attention just because I'm playing a dryad? Or a Ogre? Or a Gnome?
>in an interesting way?
Since you imply that my knowledge of drama and narrative is so small as to be nonexistent help me with it: What makes a character in a PnPRPG, a collaborative storytelling game, such as SR interesting?
>Every moment you spend mentioning that you're a pixie is a moment of roleplaying wasted.
Just because I'm not playing one of the cookie cutter, old metahumans doesn't mean that I'm going out of my way to announce it to everyone. Sure if the GM gives situations where me not being a standard ork/elf/dwarf/troll/human makes a difference then of course I'm going to act accordingly. But that isn't going to be all the time.
>because it grates with the existing themes and established norms of the setting
Are these things set in stone? Do we commit some grave heresy if we say "nah our setting is based on SR but these things are in there as well"? Is there a SR police that's on patrol to catch people who don't rigorously follow these setting norms?

>>46940453
You can roleplay a metatype, though. Metatypes and metavariants are specifically described as having distinct cultural traits that can set them apart from others. You can roleplay a genericest stereotype that would fit whatever race and role you assign it to, but you can just as easily incorporate parts of the lore that pertain to your character's race into roleplaying. Unless you don't want to be a disgusting snowflake, of course.

Ironically, dryads are some of the few metavariants that don't have any distinct features because of how they are distributed, but of course the guy simply has to specifically have a beef with a statblock that doesn't cause the problems he's imagining.

Guys I didn't want to say anything but uh... I'm pretty sure you're arguing with Virt.

File: raeg1.jpg (29KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 640x480px

>>46940700
>I'm pretty sure you're arguing with Virt.
>arguing with Virt
>Virt
>VIRTUAL OPTIM
FUCKFUCKFUCK I HATE HIM, AND I HATE YOU FOR REMINDING ME OF HIM

>>46940246
Metavariants have been a thing since the "iconic" 2e.

>>46940700
The seasoned player, some might even say one of the best, if not the best, gamer this board has to offer?

>>46940751

<Maximumb8mode unlocked>

>>46940725
No, no, I totally get that, yeah? I'ts just the way he posts in massive unreadable blocks then replies with greentext quotes and says drek like... er... what was it...? Parroting a degenerative game" or something just gives him a sort of greasy Virt-esque sort of film on him, right?