Horus Hersy General

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Let's continue on the discussion of your dudes. Anyone got anything to say?

>>46205649

My Japanese Mecha Knights, who are what would happen if Eva, Gundam, Macross and Gunpla all had a bastard child.

A ton of hot-blooded pilots all competing against one another for battlefield honours and status, and a lot of squabbling both on and off the battlefield. But when the beans start firing, somehow using the power of teamwork they pull of the near-impossible.

And then the Heresy happens, and all hell literally breaks loose.

>>46205761
>And then the Heresy happens, and all hell literally breaks loose.
I'm curious. Tell me more.

Seekers are sexy, why are they so sexy?.

>>46205917
Is it the 20 blast templates?

>>46205938
I wish this was just a heavy 1 large blast, rolling 20 small blasts sounds like punishment.

>>46205900

You have a household that barely holds together even during the Great Crusade, which creates an unusually large number of Freeblades thanks to transgressions of honour and the endless infighting. And now something that tests the already weak bonds of loyalty erupts.

Part of the Household declares for Horus, part sides with the Emperor, and the rest scatter to the four winds, siding with literally anyone who can give them glory. Some run all the way to the fringe and shack up with the Ashen Claws. And the Household almost overnight ceases to exist.

>>46206041
That sounds incredibly fun. How does it end for them?

>>46206101

No idea. Presumably vanished into the mists of time, anther casualty of the war.

It's fun taking the 'group breaks apart' section of some Mecha shows and tuning it to the heresy.

>>46206288
Can Knights be taken into other households?

>>46206350

Freeblades often attach themselves to other Households as the need arises, so there is some precedent.

>>46206383
So that explains what could have happened to some of the Knights of your household.

>>46206288
Are you playing the Loyalists or the Traitors of your household?

fluff question, was there a point of the flight of the eisenstein? don't mean the book, I enjoyed the book, the death guard and all the nurgle stuff were great, but just the general escape itself, doesn't seem like it effected Horus plan for Istvaan V in any major way, I guess Garro and the saint surviving is probably more important

>>46206475

It can be either or. Flexibility is key to getting the most enjoyment out of your models.

>>46205917
Seekers are assertive, being assertive is sexy as hell.

>>46206479
Would Istvaan V have happened if the Eisenstein hadn’t escaped? I think Horus starting planning it once he knew that the Imperium would be coming to get him.

Better for the Imperium to find out about the other traitor legions there, than at Terra.

>>46206894
I believe Betrayal mentioned that Eisenstein escaping was what stopped Horus from just taking the Traitor Legions to Terra and launching a surprise attack.

>>46206479
Considering the Eisenstein was the only reason Malcador, Dorn and the Emperor heard about Horus' betrayal, and without it Horus might have attacked the Sol system with only the Fists defending it, taking everyone by surprise, I'd say it was one of the most important journeys of the entire Heresy.

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>>46205314
Is hit and run a good ability in 30k?

Is it better in this environment than in the 40k one?

I'm a budding White Scar player and I am trying to grasp the benefits of army wide hit and run.

Are Raven guard seekers any good?

>>46207532
Mate, you have Mor Deythan.

And yes, they are very good.

I have a Grand Battalion of Iron Warriors that stayed loyal during the Heresy, but felt like the Imperium lost itself somewhere around M32-M33. Any ideas what I can do besides become edgy spikey boyz? I have an idea of them breaking off until the Emperor returns to lead humanity personally and legion building and taking the game From the Depths onto a 40k level. Any advice.

>>46205649
Company was part of the orginal legion when it left Terra being the 79th in the 7th chapter of the XVI legion. A destoryer company that due to pushing the borders from the mid crusade on became a tactical company absorbing other companies assigned to the expeditionary fleet due to supply issues. Only joined Horus's side due to being told the emperor was gonna become a literal God of mankind.

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Do you guys think that TV in the 30k-40k universe is like this?

>>46207690
Become an Inquisitor's private army.

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Question time:

Run them down special rule:

who's the point for: you or your opponent?

>>46207780
I would imagine that the side who ran them down would get the VP

>>46207491
Hit and run can be horrific when paired with nasty artillery, like that lovely phosphex stuff 30k has. Charge, enemy bunches up piling in, hit and run out in their turn, then lay down the blasts on the packed enemy. Then charge them again.

Whether you think rapiers and medusas are fluffy for white scars is up to you. Personally I reckon they'd go for this tactic as (a) drawing the enemy into traps with feigned retreats is a thing they do and (b) I think the scars, with their sense of humour, would consider it fucking funny.

>>46207770
I'll keep that in mind. Going with my current idea the battalion had the idea of creating the greatest battleship the galaxy has ever seen just to troll their daemon primarch.

>>46207780
Jesus that's awful wording.

But >>46207813
This I would go with.

>>46207815
That's a great idea actually.

Can it stop being swept?

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I want to do a force based on the Trojans in the Iliad. So far the idea have been lots boarders and the praetor wearing the armour of another legion specific units (maybe phoenix guard). Any ideas on whether to use landspeeder or bikes to represent chariots? Also, thoughts on which legion to be? So far I've been thinking about stone Gauntlet for bonus to boarders.

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>>46207769
I'd honestly be surprised if tv as we know it exists in the warhammer universe, if it does then I'd imagine non-stop propaganda and state sponsored adverts, similar to what they get in North Korea.
>Freedom of the press is tightly controlled by the state
>The media have consistently upheld the personality cult of the Kim family since the country's formation.
>frequently including "prayers" to founding leader Kim Il-sung.
>Approximately 90% of airtime on international news broadcasts in North Korea is propaganda
>newspapers carry articles in which they unfailingly hold the president in high esteem, adore him and praise him as the great revolutionary leader
>Candidates for journalism school must not only prove themselves ideologically clean, but also come from politically reliable families.
>the idea of the near constant "threat" of an "imminent attack" by the foreign countries.
>TV sets in North Korea are supplied pre-tuned to North Korean stations and must be checked and registered with the police
>All broadcast media in some way promotes the regime's ideologies and positions
Sounds pretty Imperium to me.

On many planets the class divide is much closer to how it was ~1000 years ago with the aristocracy of the senior merchants, planetary nobility and senior Ecclesiarchy officials and the peasants and serfs of the hive workers, dock labourers and gangers. The upper class would have other, better activities on offer and the lower class wouldn't have the time of funds to afford a tv anyway. There is frustratingly little information about regular civilian life in the imperium beyond what they do as a job, and even then it's usually a choice between guardsman, factory worker or some kind of almost-slave.

>>46208431

>every world in a million system feudal theocracy is exactly the same

>all guard regiments are the same

>all commissars are Le BLAM XD

>all space marines are DoW1 tactical marines

Ok

>>46207770
The Emperor only asks for your loyalty, pay your tithe, and aren't a daemon cock sucker. Other than that you're free to have freedom of speech and other freedoms.
>>46208431
Nigga, they test the purity of your soul. North Korea ain't got nothing on the Imperium.

>>46208689
I was generalising, stop deliberately being an idiot.

>>46208794
NK is probably the closest example we can list except for some extreme religious countries/communities.

>>46208884

The imperium is more diverse than the planet earth is currently, saying that all 100 quadrillion humans don't have some form of media entertainment is the same class of dumb shit that has run rampant over /tg/

>>46208974
>The imperium is more diverse than the planet earth is currently
>only caucasians exist in the imperium

>>46208884
The Imperium is an incredibly diverse place. There are reoccurring factors yes but the planet that is basically America if it had lava everywhere and fire breathing eagles is going to be different from the hive world next door.
>>46209001
The Celestial Lions have African sounding names.

>>46209036
Holy fuck that planet sounds awesome.

I want to make up a Space Marine chapter from that place.

>>46207690
Marines errant types - go conquer the edges

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>>46209036
>The Celestial Lions have African sounding names.
>less than 96
extinct. also they were caucasian anyway.

>>46209001

It's one of the few utopian elements in 40k

>>46209076
Well then start up the rolling, Anon. Probably should make a new thread for that though.
>>46209083
Thanks.
>>46209103
Since when is 96 marines total extinction?

>>46209177
Oh I wasn't going to go through the whole process here.

I'm just imagining the kind of marines that would live in such a place

>>46209177
>Since when is 96 marines total extinction?
since most players own more marines than the entire chapter...

flesh tearers are considered a 'dead' chapter and they have 400+ marines + countless death company locked away.

>>46209177

> Since when is 96 marines total extinction?
When those 96 include zero Apothecaries, you can't recover the geneseed and every brother lost is irrecoverable.

>>46209103
Nope
Marines came forward, bearing the black helm of a Pride Leader. He knelt, though he had no true reason to do so, and removed the dark helmet. The face beneath was the warm, rich brown of humans born to equatorial climes,

>>46209218
Probably Salamanders, Ultramarines(note that Smurfs don't care what world they live on example the Mortificators), Fists, and I want to say Scars for some reason. As for why they'd love on such a world is because they seek a world that has born survivors, a world where people have to work together or otherwise they'll fry.
>>46209265
>since most players have more marines than the chapter
You know you can make a CL army and say it was before the Ork Snipers right?

>>46209103
>also they were caucasian anyway.

They were black, they could be caucasian but that was never said. We just know theyre black.

>>46209360
>bl cuck shit
>cannon
kek

>>46209418
You posted the lexicanum page - which cites the novella
Dumb American trump voter

>>46209503
you are right

canonically they even exised :^)

>>46209503
>Buying the bait wholesale.
Sigh.

>>46209341
You know the Black Templars say you should stop being stupid and remeber they're helping their fellow sons of Dorn recover right?

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What sort of special weapons are good on breachers? Currently leaning towards flamers or meltas.

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>>46209552
>black templar
>helping them
>mfw BT killed them for being mutants

>>46209690
Apothecaries to recover geneseed and train new doc marines. The Templars are miffed at the Inquisition about the whole ordeal too.

>>46207982
Hit and Run can be used at the end of the assault face. So that would be after leadership tests and potential falling back/sweeping advance.

>>46209811
The Templars were probably the ones pulling the triggers. I hear the Celestial Lions Apothecaries had their hands up too.

They're all just a bunch of hippocrips.

>>46209859
>Hippo-crisps
Like animal crackers?

>>46209859
Ask yourself this: What Black Templar would use an exitus rifle instead of charging into melee?

>>46209001
Salamanders are all black. Originally in honour of some really well respected (black, obviously) 40k player, I believe. Since then they've been retconned to be obsidian or some shit.

But yeah, Big E doesn't seem to like evolution much so must've done something to get rid of human races.

So, assuming I'm from a lax group who cares more about narrative than competition..
How would the CSM rules for Lucius and Fabius compare in 30k?

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>>46209899

>>46208431
I would be more surprised if they didn't have TV. The Imperium isn't all hymns and dying, as long as you pay your tithes the Administratum and Munitorum don't give a fuck what you do. Now the ministorum or admech might kill you for being heretics, the inquisition might kill you for being chaos worshipers or trading with xenos, but beyond that the Imperium gives no fucks what the planet does to get its tithes. If the planet allows TV with normal cartoon shows and sitcoms the Imperium wouldn't give a shit. If the planet sent 12 year old girls to the breeding pits, the Imperium wouldn't give a shit. If the planet had traditions of choosing someone by lottery to be hunted down like an animal and killed by the nobility for sport the Imperium wouldn't give a shit. Until the planet stops paying its tithes in full or commits acts of heresy they can do whatever the fuck they want.

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>>46209931
>evolution much so must've done something to get rid of human races.
Now you're gone pic related.
>>46209965
That's just standard procedure for the BTs.

>>46210017
he's got a point; race is based on mutation. of course, humanity itself is a series of mutations from some earlier ape...

>>46209946
Lucius
WS7 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10
Artificer armour
Iron Halo
Sonic Shrieker
Sword - S user AP3 Melee, Rending
the usual EC rules plus something like his Duellist's Pride rule or the Initiative part of Fulgrim sublime swordsman rule.
Legendary Fighter warlord trait

Fabulous
WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A3 Ld10
Power armour
Refractor field
chirurgeon (+1S, Rampage)
power sword
narthencium
needle pistol
rules buffing a number of squads (maybe veteran and kakophoni) roll D3 for +1S, +1T or FNP

>>46207769
Television exists, there's just no interstellar media outlets as the only way to send and receive messages over large distances is by unreliable and valuable Astropaths

There may have even been a variety of TV entertainment on more well developed worlds pre-Heresy, but in M41 it's probably just footage of priests chanting praise to the Emperor

Various novels have mentioned going to the cinema and having propaganda reels play though, very WWII inspired.

>>46210279
The Emperor loves humanity though.

>>46210301
>Sword - S user AP3 Melee, Rending
So a cheap praetor could effortlessly rape him

>rules buffing a number of squads (maybe veteran and kakophoni) roll D3 for +1S, +1T or FNP
Actually the way I would like to see it done is any unit (including ICs) can be his fucked up marines for x points per model (lets just say 10 for the sake of argument). The upgrade can be applied to any squad and as many squads, but it will get expensive fast. Still, you could get Palatines or Phoenix Guard who are WS/S/I 5/6/5 on the charge with AP 2, hitting before marines, hitting them on a 3+, wounding on a 2+, and ignoring terminator armour. However the costs would add up quick meaning you couldn't just apply the benefit to every single squad unless you are willing to spend upwards of 500 points on the upgrades that might not even be particularly useful (FnP isn't useful for a blob of marines if you bought an apothecary just for the squad anyway).

>>46210600
>So a cheap praetor could effortlessly rape him
a cheap praetor can effortlessly rape abaddon

>>46209657

Melta.

>>46210640
Abaddon could effortlessly rape Lucius, and Lucius' whole point is that he is a master swordsman who challenges people to duels. Lucius dying to Sigismund or some highly kitted out Salamanders praetor, fine. Lucius loses to pretty much anyone with AP 2, hell I bet a champion in artificer armour with a power axe could kill Lucius.

Granted if we are talking about BL Lucius a random champion with a power axe probably could kill Lucius.

>>46210799
>Abaddon could effortlessly rape Lucius
yeah but he should 2bh

kharn's cutter is strength user ap3 melee, rending.

>>46210891
Kharn has the option of getting an AP 2 weapon.

>>46210983
which makes him cost as much or more than an equally beatsticky praetor, and doesnt let you take a primarch. also he has a long history of using gorechild.

lucius just has a regular power sword in 40k.

he should have a charnabal sabre or something.

didnt he get fucked up on istvaan iii?

>>46205649
I like Space Wolves.

>>46211135
Yes and tell me about your dudes? How long are your Space Wolves beards? What color are they? How many braids do they have in them? Do they hide flasks of booze in them?

>>46211088
>which makes him cost as much or more than an equally beatsticky praetor
To be fair at least he can defeat a basic praetor armed with a power axe then.

>doesnt let you take a primarch
If you are taking Angron you don't really need Kharn to be a challenge beatstick

>lucius just has a regular power sword in 40k
While I agree with that reasoning for giving him a basic power sword, he fact that he is armed with a basic power sword is what makes him worthless.

>he should have a charnabal sabre or something
Charnabal sabre would be arguably better than a rending power sword, at least the sabre has duellist's edge which never hurts. Besides that it has literally no downside in challenges

>didnt he get fucked up on istvaan iii?
Not really. Istvaan III is really the only time he didn't get fucked up, fought off like 20 marines before killing Solomon Demeter. The whole reason I mentioned BL is because they do shit on Lucius constantly which makes me wonder why the hell Slaanesh ever brings him back to life or why anyone would feel pride in killing him.

While I agree that making challange praetor special characters is hard without making them special snowflake as fuck in terms of wargear and rules (see how many rules and shit Sigismund gets) Lucius should at least have an AP 2 sword, I mean Kharn and Lucius don't have artificer armour in 40k but they have it in 30k, so why shouldn't their weapons be upgraded similarly?

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>Read this book
>Mostly alright, though the nerfing of Night Lords was annoying
>Turns out to be a scythes of the emperor origin story

I actually liked that part

>>46211256
giving him ap2 would be too strong. should just be an ap3 charnabal sabre. i mean you already have eilodon beating everybody down and can still take fulgrim.

kharns whole thing is that if you take angron kharn becomes worse than a praetor. abby doesnt even get a paragon blade. loken does but his stateline is basically just a praetor anyway.

basically paragonblade praetors seem to be meant to go toe to toe with anybody except siggy

>>46211256
Lucius is like the Avatar of Khaine in 30k. Even the Mega Arachnids got a chance to beat him with their greatest champion probably. I imagine it as a fusion between fencing and lucha libre. Lucius wasn't no luchador but his fight lasted longer than anyone else's fight with the Avatar.

>>46211395
BL is making Lucius' fall to Chaos a result of his desperation to be the best. He's a more rapey Vegeta.

IIRC his latest HH fluff has him going to the planet of the sorcerers and seeking out Ahriman for some plan.

>>46211468
That fight with the fencing lucha Mega Arachnid really hurt his ego. That's what I'm going with because I love the mental image.

lucius should have a phoenix spear. its the perfect solution.

>>46211580
Nathaniel Garro's rules re-themed would be more or less perfect for Lucius.

>>46207296
>>46207060
Wasn't the dropsite massacre already planned at that point?

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>>46213436
Yes.

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>>46205649
Loyalist IW led by the motherfucker himself. Highlights include stabbing an Alpha Legion Centurion in his stupid face, and then sweeping his 20 tac marines all by himself after tanking all the hits, when 4 went through, and 3 were saved by his weaker FnP.

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>>46213778
You're doing it right, Anon. Show them the Iron within. That's the iron that really matters.

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Rate my tournament IW list? Day 1 is 1250, day 2 adds 600 points to your original list.

Rite of War: Pride of the Legion

HQ: Kyr Vhalen, Artificer Armor, Iron Halo, Volkite Serpenta, Servo Arm 195 pts

HQ: Legion Consul, Power Armor, Nucio Vox, Master of Signal 95 pts

Troop: Legion Vet Squad, Rhino, 5 marines, Nucio Vox 170 pts

Troop: Legion Vet Squad, Rhino, 5 marines, Melts Gun 175 pts

HS: 6 Iron Havocs, 6 Lascannons, Iron Havoc Sgt, Lascannon, Augury Scanner, 345 pts

HS: Legion Medusa 155 pts

HS: Legion Whirlind Scorpius 115

Which is 1250 on the nose.

DAY 2

War machine Detachment: Typhon Heavy Siege Tank, Armored Ceramite, 370

Elite: 3 Legion Rapier, Shatter and Frag Shells 180

And every Sgt gets Artificer Armor which brings me to 1850.

Does anyone have any character stories for their dudes? My main HQ (a delegatus) was just an ordinary sergeant before the dropsite massacre, and of the Raven guard he loaded onto his thunderhawk during their escape, he was the highest ranking dude.

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>>46213778
I really hope we see Kyr Vhalen again. Paramar was boss but he can't just be left with that forever.

>>46215885
I doubt he'll reappear, much like Autek Mor I think he was an incredible one hit wonder.
But despair not, because I'm sure FW has even more traitor killing loyalists

>>46209001
What about the catlike abhumans?

>>46205649
I can't my "dude" because everything about Thousand Sons organization and it's members are very detailed except for the recon squad.

It's bugging me very much that a badass melee praetor has zero place in the legion because only promotion available for TS is through psychic merit.

>>46216215
>pick the legion of nerds wants a jock praetor
You brought this on yourself

>>46215885
>>46216007

If he does appear again it will be in the later books.

It be cool if he was a rogue loyalist element on Tallahran and just ran people over in a Typhon formation while cursing incoherently over open vox net

>>46216381
I have to. FW won't let me have a Librarian as the mandatory HQ

>>46216215
you could easily fluff the dude as a biomancer who's already pushed his ability to the limit to get as far as he has, thus having no power available statwise because he's already running at at psyker redline levels

>>46211372
>giving him ap2 would be too strong.
What?
Lucius w/ AP 2 power sword vs generic praetor with power axe and an iron halo
5 attacks
3.333 hits
1.666 wounds
0.833 unsaved wounds

Praetor swings back
5 attacks
2.5 hits
1.666 wounds
0.833 unsaved wounds

>>46216621
Yet

>>46211468
He fought some 1k sons guy was being shit on the entire fight, finally defeated the guy after being toyed with the entire fight and Ahriman prevented Lucius from finishing him. Honestly I don't even feel anything about Lucius anymore, his character makes no fucking sense. Him being desperate to be the best should imply some attempt at self improvement, instead all he does is just wander around getting his ass kicked while claiming to be the prince of all Saiyans.

so what's the best centurion?

What's better in a fight, blade of perdition BA centurion or UM Lego axe centurion?

>>46217083
>so what's the best centurion

Master of Signals, Vigilator, Primus Medicae, Moritat, Praevian, Forge Lord, mini-Praetor Delegatus/Champion

>>46217083
world eater forgelord with hatred, cataphractii, thunderhammer, cyber familiar. hatred, ws6 in challenges, 3 attacks at s8 ID, 5 attacks on the charge, 3++ invuln.

or if you get relics a salamander/IF champion with a storm shield and EW. then comes the SoH EW cataphractii forgelord with a 3+.

>>46217083
>so what's the best centurion?
Depends
>Champion can fuck up anyone short of a praetor and primarch, especially EC since they hit first
>Primus Medicae can give special units access to FnP when it is otherwise impossible
>Forge Lord
Does forge lord stuff, plus rad grenades
>Delegatus
Cheap RoW
>Herald
+1 WS, +1 Ld, or rerolls 1s on the turn they charge

For loyalists Herald is pretty fucking glorious, WS 5 FnP blobs of tactical marines. Can be paired with a forge lord so your marines hit on a 3+ and wound on a 3+.

>>46217083
Saboteur with Combat Augment Array. Your Spartan explodes and your death star is hoofing it.

>>46217432
>For loyalists Herald is pretty fucking glorious
Unless you're DA in which case it's sadly mostly superfluous.

>>46211216
They are Space Marines with some Norse influences and minimum wolfity wolf wolf on most models.

>>46205986
Clearly you haven't spammed phospex rapiers. 48 small blasts a turn which all stay on the table as dangerous terrain for the rest of the game.

>>46217405
or if you want to be a dick and abuse the way falax blades is written you give the WE forgelord thunderhammer/chainfist/powerfist + falax blades for paired specialist weapons. then in a challenge you get 5 S8 attacks (because of the servo arm too), 7 on the charge with rage, and a 3++ invuln.

>>46205986
Anon, you need more Wyverns in your army. You should twin-link them too.

>>46217521
oh and he has rad grenades, and the only reason you are taking him is to fix the spartan :^).

>>46217432
>Herald
On the downside they have to be your warlord. On the upside they get you RoW.

>>46216741
Jesus Christ why does Slaanesh even give a shit about the guy?

>>46217660
His excessive ego is delicious.

Plasma vs. Autocannon: Which would be better for a all-around Deredeo armament? Also, is Missile launcher a must have for Deredeo?

how are power daggers, especially for non praetors?

>>46217830
They're pretty dank. If you have counter attack, you can basically kill 2x as many tactical Marines than you normally would and make them pay a little bit.

>>46217830
>>46217935
they're also a handy way to give a character +1A if they have some other specialist weapon like a lightning claw, power fist or paragon blade. that's more a praetor application, but you can do it on a centurion as well or even a sergeant if he's a fisty.

>>46217503
>Saboteur with Combat Augment Array

People need to stop suggesting this combo because it doesn't work.

>>46218169
It's also not something you can even take generally with the current errata. Relics are all by opponent's agreement when used outside of a campaign using the campaign rules in HH4 which means that unless your meta is full of opponents that have their own broken relic combos to bring to the table they never see use.

>>46216741
This is what hard drugs or Slaanesh do to people. They become huge assholes and just shits on everything.

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All I got with my tac marine squad is this piece of shit. What if I don't want Ultramarines? Shouldn't there be a transfer sheet with multiple chapter decals?

>>46218472
nah they just make you buy them for $20 off of FWs website, because they are dicks.

>>46218472
The 40k ones, both loyalist and chaos, are a dime a dozen.

>>46218472
>What if I don't want Ultramarines

Why'd you want to be a faggot?

>>46218665
Go away Guilliman

>>46217736
Depends on the role. A Deredeo with autocannons and the missile launcher is one of the best anti-air units in 30k at the moment, but the plasma cannonade looks amazing at dealing with termie blobs. Only tried the AC+ML combo myself. Oh, and it can take armoured ceramite.

Can someone please tell me what the name of fan made alternate to the Horus Heresy?

Maybe it was called the Dornian something or something I'm not sure

>>46218840
You're probably talking about the Dornian Heresy.

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We're Iron Hands or Iron Warriors the more techy legion?

Even their rules make it harder to discern. They both have ties to the mechanicum, they both have loads of tech nobody else has.

The main difference seems to be their fighting style, one being mechanised and the other being sieges.

Even their Primarchs are the techy Primarchs. It's confusing.

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Would people freak if I painted my stole gauntlet fists in crimson fists colours?
Represent a newly formed chapter just after the heresy?

>>46219627
I think iron hand were techy by choice, the whole machine worship thing, whereas iron warriors tended to get blown up alot and therefore had a few more prosthetics than your average legion.

>>46219627

The main difference between them is their ideology regarding tech and its employment

The IW see technology and machinery as a means to an end, the destruction of their foes, and largely view it as either a necessity (cybernetics to get back in the fight), a means of overpowering their enemy (super heavy tanks), or simply expendable assets (massed reserves of tanks and dreads)

The IH actually revere tech, and see cyber augmentation as the preferred mode of existence, this has impacted the ways in which they make war and the units they field (im looking at you immortals and Gorgons) and has lead to their keen interest in and mastery of advanced cybernetics and weaponry

So the IW use of tech is simply a result of their fighting style, while for the IH their fighting style is a result of their use of tech

>>46218472
>Using decals.
>Not trying to gloriously freehand your iconography whether it turns out good or bad.

>>46207690
>>46207828
>>46209083
I'm going with this. A bunch of marines trying to build the greatest battleship the galaxy has ever seen, but must hunt for the materials needed. I'm naming it the Decimation.

>>46220041
Nah call it the [Decimates Externally]

>>46219735
do it son

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>>46220041
>why would you build such a thing
>why would you build a battleship the size of a fucking small planet
>just why

>>46220942
As the Dark Angels and Dorn

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>>46220977
>pic related

>>46220041
Or you could not be a meme-spouting faggot.

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Any word/sources on that rumour about assault marines receiving a points drop?

>>46221023
Given they presumably would have done it in book 6, I'd say unlikely in the near future.

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Really weird question here, but what legion shuns heraldry and glory and shit like culture and sees being an Astartes as just a job to do?

I don't mean an actual job, but they view it as a task to get done and would look down on the likes of Blood Angels who are into artsy stuff and the like.

I like no bullshit marines.

>>46221120
>Really weird question here, but what legion shuns heraldry and glory and shit like culture and sees being an Astartes as just a job to do?

Iron Warriors

>>46221120
Iron Warriors, and maybe Nostraman members of the Night Lords. The ones who really don't give a fuck.

>>46217593
Can you take a praetor with a herald? I can't see anything that specifically says you can't like with Delegatus, but I feel like I am just missing something.

Whats thr best way to do a no holds bar, genocide everything force as loyalists. I want to do a Space Marine Mechanicus combo force to represent a group that's decided everything is on the table and and cracking out the forbidden technology from the dark age.

>>46221120
Imperial fists are noted as not giving a shit about that stuff, and rarely displaying any panapolies of war. Rogal Dorn noted that division in a legion is like a hairline crack in a wall; something that could doom them all. Unity was strength and that duty was its own reward.

>>46221319
Loyalist Iron Warriors/ Iron Hands with Ordo Reductor allies.

>>46221319
Destroyers/phosphex/rad 'nades/psykers/etc.

>>46221120
Iron Hands.
They have some different direction but those who are the most like Ferrus are pretty no-bullshit.

>>46220942
>>why would you build a battleship the size of a fucking small planet
Why would you not?

I know it's all conjecture until Inferno appears, but what are the odds that loyalist Thousand Sons will be a thing you can do? On the one hand with blackshields and the like FW seems to have moved to a stance where your legion doesn't determine your alignment, but on the other (afaik) pretty much the whole legion was on Prosporo and thus probably quite angry with the loyalists.

>>46221408
There were quite a few loyalist Thousand Sons in Scars.

Hell, they would probably have been at the siege of Terra on the loyalists side if it wasn't for Horus.

I would say definitely.

>>46221389
Because it always takes but a single fighter to destroy one of those things.

>>46221358
>>46221359
So Iron Warrior Destroyers, and Ordo Reductor? Becer thought about that legion and unit combination before, but sound fluffy. Anything in particular to take with the mechanicus for mass fuck off points?

>>46221439
Yeah, Thallax, artillery and those fucking bonkers tanks they have.

Fluff wise, Reductor remained largely loyalist too, much to everyone's surprise.

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>>46221422
Jolly good. That may be what I go with then.

>>46221120

AL shuns heraldry and glory but they are still completely bullshit, depending on who writes them. Dan Abnett AL were essentially space marine CIA but they can go way overboard sometimes. It always seems to work out though

>>46221408
I'd be super shocked if TSons couldn;t do loyalists in some form since everyone else can.
As to why there's a few explanations. magnus sent a bunch away from Prospero with sealed orders. Could be those orders told them how to fight chaos to atone for the legions mistakes
You could have groups attatched to other Expeditionary forces who've been out of contact for a long time and who disagree with how far the legion delved into warp lore

The whole point of the setting is that you can justify almost anything in the setting

>>46221432
Only when you forget to board up the exhaust ports

>>46221422
Thousand Sons are forced to become traitors because the Imperium turned against them, not vice versa.

>>46221120
Your question is phrased oddly. Magnus, for example, was well aware his primary reason for existence was to be a tool of war. He didn't like it, much rather spend his time learning, thinking, teaching, and making the world a better place. So for TS, being Astartes was just a job they hoped to one day be able to retire from.

For Iron Warriors, there is nothing else. They don't care about glory, or what they leave behind. They have one job to do and they're not going to let anything stop them.

Word Bearers do not think they are a tool of war, they think they are a tool of enlightenment. They think they can create a world that can only exist once they are long gone.

Ultramarines, I think, resemble the TS in philosophy, but do not resent their role. Rather they embrace it, and are ok with that being all they will ever know.

And well you can write a tiny bit like that for all Legions, I suppose.

>>46221557
Magnus tried to warn the Emperor, shot himself in the foot by fucking up the webway. The Emperor told Horus to order Leman to bring Magnus to Terra. Horus changed the orders to destroy the Thousand Sons.

It was Horus.

>>46218472
Why would I ever put a sticker on a mini?

Also for the love of all the is holy can someone tell me if they ever scene tech thralls succesfully modeled with heavy chainblades?

>>46221408
Maybe not loyalists but surely blackshields

>>46220994
Fine, I'll name it the Ironfire.
>>46220942
It's just four times the size of an Emperor class battleship.

>>46221408
The new book did say that there were some 1k Sons popping up on each side if I'm not mistaken.

>>46221676
Ah, so it's on par with one of the Abyss-class ships Lorgar made.

>>46221533
Actually there were two sides to the AL. The side you describe, and the side that used as much heraldry and wanted as much glory as humanly possible, which is described in the FW books. They were the face of the legion, and would regularly completely change all their colors, heraldry, and identifiers, and fought the more traditional battles of the Alpha Legion.

>>46221763
Man that's cool.

Alpha Legion actually sound pretty badass.

>>46221739
It will probably end up like that. 10,00 years would probably be enough time to build an IW flavor Craftworld but there are factors to be taken into account. Materials, revisions to the plan, a need for other ships to build, and someone showing up and trying to put a halt to it like Orks wanting to loot everything or Eldar seeing a future where the final product would be bad for the Eldar. Of course this is a WIP so I'll probably change things along the way.

>>46221763

It's great because they deliberately had some guys acting like normal space marines in broad daylight in order to mask their actual tacticool operations

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>>46205314
>Iron Hands, a legion known for their mastery of machines "as a swordmaster would wield a blade" get fuck all actual vehicle rules.

>Dark Angels who are good at vehicles I guess get some of the best vehicle related rules in the heresy.

Oi mate what the fuck.

>>46222161
The Dark Angels wield archeotechnology that is forbidden for the rest of the Imperium.
Plus Iron Hands are only good with tanks, I've never heard of an Iron Hand jetbike squad

>>46222196
They only get those after Isstvan V. They can only generate lift through the force of their anger.

>>46222222

>>46222224
The Iron Hands were always angry, they just went insane after Isstvan V.
Wouldn't surprise me if some of them went Khornate

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>>46222233
Fuck off.

>>46222374
I'm not pointing out a GET, I just wanted to see who got it, calm your autism

>>46222504
That's the same thing you muppet.

>I'm not pointing it out, I'm just pointing it out.

>>46222544
No, I'm not bragging about it, I just wanted to see who got it
>I have to police muh south korean shadowpuppetry website
Just ignore it

>>46222370
>primarch has iron hands
>primarch is literally named iron hands
>legion is named iron hands
>sensing a theme here
>some genius decides we should have iron hands
>everybody cuts off at least one hand and gets a bionic
>constant sharp pains at the join between flesh and metal
>whose fucking idea was this?
>other guys keep muttering the flesh is weak
>actually the flesh is stupid my hand didn't hurt before
>Primarch actually tells you it was dumb as fuck to cut off your hand
>pretend you didn't hear him
>the flesh is weak
>punch some prick in the face, feel your wrist giving way at the join
>the flesh is weak you mutter
>ask the techmarine for a iron arm instead of a hand
>he tells you he is busy, have you ever replaced 100k legionnaires hands, get wounded or fuck off
>pain is a constant companion
>the flesh is weak

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Does anybody know any good paint schemes for the Ultramarines that don't make them look like toys?

I like their look in the Horus Heresy books I just always get pissed off seeing them on the table. I want to get an army of them running.

>>46222849
>istavaan V; following glorious lord Iron Hand into battle with the Iron hands while your actual iron hand aches like a bitch
>every time your fire your bolter the recoil is punctuated by sharp pain
>the flesh is weak you mutter as you shoot at the traitors
>your primarch Iron hand fights some other primarch who doesn't even have iron hands
>the primarch with normal hands is seeming to be winning
>"b-but the flesh is weak" you stutter as you strangle some purple marine to death with your normal hand, because your iron hand has seized up
>your primarch loses his head
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>you completely lose your mind
>THE FLESH IS WEAK you yell as you kill
>IF THE FLESH WAS STRONG I WOULDN'T NEED A FUCKING IRON HAND!
>Why was my primarch such a weak as bitch fucking weakling FUCK
>Your primarch should of had an iron neck
>what a fucking faggot, if you survive this your definitely gonna get an iron neck
>There seem to be a lot of these normal handed traitors all around you
>your stupid iron hand is the only one you have now, your other arm appears to have taken its leave
>the flesh is weak
>you can neither use bolter or sword because you hand is seized
>you are stuck punching normal handed traitors to death
>it takes ages
>the pain every time you punch someone increases
>you look at your hand, its a stump, in the melee some prick has stolen your fucking iron hand
>you start running
>you actually escape this shit hole
>when you get home you tell the techmarine to iron you the fuck up
>You have iron arms legs and neck now
>everything hurts all the fucking time

>some faggot in another dimension on an image bored says your legion is mad as fuck

>>46222879
Doing the gold as silver with a couple sepia washes helps tone down the gaudiness a little. Couldn't say for the blue, though.

>>46222879
The mouth thing always looks like a mustache at first glance

>>46222849
>>46222885
Holy fuck I laughed.

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>>46222927
thanks anon

>>46205314
So yeah, this is a loyalist Emperor's Children list, defected after Isstvan because they got pissed at Bile for fucking with their genetics and killing some of them.

Rite of War: Orphans of Betrayal

Praetor w/ Master-Crafted Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers, Sonic Shriekers, and Lucid Blade: 225 Points
Champion w/ MC Charnabal Sabre, Artificer Armour: 100 Points
Champion w/ MC Charnabal Sabre, Artificer Armour: 100 Points

5 Honour Guards w/ Charnabal Sabres and Rhino: 200 Points

10x Palatine Blades w/ Sonic Shriekers and Rhino: 290 Points
10x Palatine Blades w/ Rhino: 270 Points

10 Tacticals w/ added CCWs, Artificer Armour on Sergeant, and a Rhino: 215 Points
10 Tacticals w/ added CCWs, Artificer Armour on Sergeant, and a Rhino: 215 Points

Sicaran Venator: 190 Points
Sicaran Venator: 190 Points

1995 Points

Basic idea is simple, tacticals camp on objectives, Palatines and honour guard drive up the table and assault shit, Palatines should be able to kill 7 or so marines on the turn they charge, and due to EC rules should be able to run them down easily, Honour Guard have a bit harder time due to lower numbers but the praetor and champions should be able to supplement them for around 8 marines dead on the turn they charge. Venators obviously shoot tanks. Probably would just avoid death stars completely unless I could get both Palatines and the honour guard to charge them on the same turn.

>>46223102
So, Lucid Blade requires your opponent's consent to use.
Charnabal Sabre is an odd choice. The only reason to take this is if you are sure you will only be fighting 2+ save guys but want to continue hitting on Ini.

>>46223356
>So, Lucid Blade requires your opponent's consent to use.
Its a shitty relic anyway. 2++ but you lost 2 attacks (if you have an iron halo) and have to use a specialist weapon power sword.
>Charnabal Sabre is an odd choice. The only reason to take this is if you are sure you will only be fighting 2+ save guys but want to continue hitting on Ini.
Primarily for flavour, if I actually wanted lethality I would drop the honour guard, remove 3 dudes from a Palatine squad and give both champs and as many Palatines as I could Phoenix spears. However this list is meant to focus heavily on the palatine blades with the praetor representing the former champion of the order before he defected and became loyalist.

I figure even if the Chanrabal sabres aren't ideal they can still mostly get the job done due to rending. Do you think I should drop the honour guard for the spears?

>>46223584
Well, your entire list is not 'optimal', obviously. People generally don't want to take additional HQ choices without a very good reason. People generally don't rely on Rhinos either sincer they get shot to bit by things like Fire Raptors and Kheres Assault Cannons. Anyway, even with a cool force not meant to be optimised the Charnabals on your Champions seems like an awkward choice. At least drop the mastercraft and get yourself a Refractor Field.

So yeah, I kinda like the list as-is, I can imagine it looking real pretty. Maybe dropping a Palatine Squad in order for a Raider or Spartan for your 600pt HQ unit rather than putting them in a Rhino...

I'd swap a Venator out for a Raptor too, glorious flyer seems much more fitting for EC to me.

>>46221349
Seriously? They're freaking yellow, and they have a lot of companies with liveries of their own.

>>46221120
Death Guard, mostly. Their ships are probably the least ornamented of all, and I think it took a while before they started painting their armor at all.

It looks like pre-Gulliman Ultramarines didn't take care of their paint either.

What would be a fluffy legion for running lots of breachers that is not Death Guard or Iron Warriors?

>>46224062
Imperial Fists and UM.

>>46224062
IF

>>46224073
>>46224077
I meant Traitor legion but forgot to write it

>>46224062
Imperial Fists, Sons of Horus. Ultramarine suzerains are basically fancy breachers, aren’t they? I can see Iron Hands and Salamanders using them too.

>>46224107

Word Bearers maybe?

Shield wall coming to "Enlighten" your ass.

>>46223968
>At least drop the mastercraft and get yourself a Refractor Field.
Champions make a weapon master-crafted for free as part of being champions, although giving one of them a combat shield would be a good use of my remaining five points.
While the Land Raider is a good idea it would remove a good chunk of my actual killing troops. I might rework the list a bit, putting the champions in 9 man Palatine Squads, dropping the artificer armour on the tactical sergeants, and seeing if I can still fit in some better transports without losing much in the way of power with my assault troops.

>I'd swap a Venator out for a Raptor too, glorious flyer seems much more fitting for EC to me.
Only reason I specifically used the Venators was for anti-tank. Howerver seeing how the Venator's gun is ordnance 2 it might be good enough with just one giving me room for a raptor and giving me some more anti-infantry so I am not as dependent on the Palatines and command squad.

>>46224107
Man it can be whoever you want. Night lords with shields covered in trophies. Word bearers with scripture. Sons of horus cause they just about winning. But known for it is prolly IW and DG.

>>46224107
Dark Angels and Sons of Horus. The former participated in some notable fleet battles, and the SoH made sure they had a bit of everything. I guess Alpha Legion also had a bit of everything.

>>46223968
I just thought of something. Is there any reason I can't take dreadclaws? If I can than just throwing each of the assault units in a dreadclaw may be the best solution. Slightly more expensive than a single land raider and uses up three fast attack slots (that I wasn't using anyway) but allows me to deepstrike my dudes into battle and can do a bit of damage with the heat blast.

so 28 total dudes in dreadclaws deepstrike into battle and immediately begin fucking shit up. Sounds like something some loyalist traitors might do in a raid or whatever.

>>46224440
Yeah you can take Dreadclaws, but remember you can't charge out of one on the turn it deep strikes. They are just a drop pod that can take off again, and when you do that, you can use it as an assault vehicle.

>>46224562
But I don't have to exit the turn it deepstrikes. So I can deepstrike, try the weather the storm of fire that will come without taking losses, and then charge out.

I mean unless I'm missing something a dreadclaw is essentially just a regular flyer that has to enter via deepstrike.

>>46225248
It must enter as a fast skimmer

Got my Chinaman recasts today. The detailes were more preserved that I had expected, the warping was minimal and almost no bubbles.

Is there any reason to buy from Forge World at all except morale related reasons?

>>46225472
Service when the casting isn't that good. Certainly does happen.

>>46224107
Speaking of Breachers, are they even that good? That price is pretty steep points wise.

>>46225566
Well, I can't argue with that. Even if you get your money back from Chinaman and order a new item you have to wait several weeks and possibly get another dud.

>>46225472
>Is there any reason to buy from Forge World at all except morale related reasons?
cancer

>>46225680
You don't get cancer from Chinaman plastic as long as you don't consume it in any manner.

>>46225615
Idk, currently looking at fielding them in Alpha Legion. Can manage to give them infiltrate+scout+counterattack, and they still don't seem that great.

>>46225615
They look great. That's enough for me to field them.

So I'm having trouble deciding what mk armor to use for my second tac squad, I have a full 20 man of mk IV but I'm considering V or III but I'm DG and I wanted to use mk III with upgrades for vets, but with V I'm not sure what command squad upgrade set to use, you guys got any advice or preferences?

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>Warzone Fenris is released earlier this year
>30k Space Wolves is also being released this year
>Fenris is named after the wolf that is one of the beasts that will bring doom upon creation
>omens of Ragnarök has been sighted in the real world

Is Games Workshop an actual evil company?

>>46225865
I think you mean the wolftime

>>46225865
My astrologer says ragnarok's a load of bullshit, that image of the wolf in the aurora intersecting with certain zodiac stars actually indicates I'll meet "my someone special" in the next two weeks. No need to thank me, I'm just glad to have cleared all that up.

>>46225975
Everyone dies. Same thing.

>>46225992
That just means that it will be a short relationship.

>>46226087
I'll take it.

>>46225865
>>46225975
Leman Russ is upon us. We're just a world in 30k that thinks it's actually Terra.

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>>46225865
YOU HAVE DAMNED US ALL TO HEL
AN ETERNITY OF IDRIS ELBA BEING SNUBBED BY WHITE TRASH OSCARS

I'm facing one of those massive fucking Mechanicum Ordinatus sonic tanks at the weekend, and the most anti-tank I've got is a 10 man unit of Fulmentarus with cyclones. Any last-ditch suggestions on how to cope with that fucking thing?

>>46226404
Spam Grav rapiers and fuck it up its mechanic ass.

>>46226346
We already live in that hell anon

>>46225731
What plastics? Isn't it resin? Resin that's off-gassing like crazy? That's what I've gotten in the past (Epic and BFG stuff that was already discontinued).

If you can smell it, there's a chance it's not entirely healthy.

>>46226404
I was going to say spam fire raptors or something but I've just checked and it can even hit flyers. Fucking hell.

Er. Take all the primarchs? It only hits them at S5, if I've understood the rules correctly (a rare plus side to them not being MCs).

>>46221120
World Eaters. Who cares about your armour looking good when it's about to be covered in blood.

>>46221618
Did magnus ever discover the treachery by Horus?

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>>46225865
No, it's just the evil of SW players manifesting as their lust for yiff is being satiated.

>>46221555
>Only when you forget to board up the exhaust ports

Or finish the station in time. Or even when you do board it up, they'll just blow a hole in it and fly in to fuck your shit up.

>>46226638
He did, yes, that's why it took him so long to pick a side, and even then he wasn't 100% commited

>>46226638
Yes, but by the time he did he didn't care. By the time the Khan arrives at Prospero, Magnus has gained an immense amount of knowledge through communing with the warp. In fact, it is this constant shifting from one project to another that is one of his key flaws.

>>46226491
>If you can smell it, there's a chance it's not entirely healthy.
Literally wat

>>46227472
To be fair that statement isn't wrong, just stupid.

>>46225680

>implying forgeworld resin is horrifyingly cancerous

for IF heavy support (at like 3k) should i run 10x lascannons and 10x missile launchers, or 10x lascannons and 10x autocannons?

i know i want 10x lascannons, and i know i want 10x more of something else, just not sure on what. im leaning towards missiles.

i wish plasma cannons did suck

>>46227561
>reading comprehension so poor it should be illegal
this is what sanguinius died to prevent

>>46227561
Reading comprehension please

>>46227599
Missile launchers, they can be anti-infantry if you need it.

>>46227649
thats what i was thinking too, also they can be anti air.

i kinda want to take 5x missiles and 5x plasmacannons but plasmacannons seem like complete shit, i just want them because they look cool.

>>46226491
I havet noticed any weird specific smell out of it.

>>46227608
>>46227625

>implying it isnt

>>46227501
There's a lot of debate over whether polyester resin off-gassing fumes are dangerous or not. The styrene industry insists that they're not. The larger neurological health agencies in the US think they are. OSHA (the US worker health & safety group) doesn't. The state of California does.

It's possible for things to smell without being dangerous, and non-smelly things can have toxic fumes.

>>46225731
maybe you don't, but 50 casters in China will.

>>46221023
It's gonna come in the new legiones astartes crusade army list update. I can't recall when or bring up citations but I think it's due sometime in April/May

>>46224200
Dark Angel Breacher Squad? Not enough plasma.

>>46227961
yeah but who cares

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>>46227961
That's unfortunate.

Although, at half the regular price they look okay enough to make me forget about this sad debatable fact.

>>46227955
>The groups that benefit from it not being toxic say it's not.
Wew.
OSHA has to cover the workers if they're forced t work in a toxic environment so of course they say it's fine.

You could just type out "I'm retarded" and save us all some time.

>>46228162
Are the small details blurred or is that just your camera?

>>46228219
I'm retarded

>>46228236
I think it's my camera. The lighting is kinda shitty.

Has the Legio Victorum been mentioned in any books, just did some looking into it and they seem cool.

>>46228798
Lexicanum lists Deliverance Lost (the novel) as a source. That's it for the Horus Heresy. I'd expect them to make an appearance when FW does a book about the war on Mars.

>>46228798
Who are they? Google isn't turning up anything substantial.

Would Combi-Plasma on Reaver Squad worth it? Turn 1 Drop + Death Dealer + Warmaster's Portion seems a bit pricy for a suicide squad.

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>>46205314
Why are World Eaters considered weaker (though not necessarily bad) compared to the other legions?

Why is it a legion like EC can do well with a melee focus but WE seem to struggle?

I have never seen them being played so excuse my ignorance.

>>46229003
would be cheaper and probably better to just do it with a plasmagun support squads

drop plasma seems like a really good idea with SoH

At what point did World Eaters stop using their blue and white?

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>>46229190
it seems like they just got redder as the heresy went on

>>46229225
Well I want to start a WE army because I really like the blue and white, would it make sense for games that are supposed to happen late in the heresy? I mean there could always be a chapter that maybe didn't get around to repainting their armour or something.

>>46229278
It would make perfect sense. Some dudes went redder as they went, some probably didn't change pallet until after the Heresy, much like the Thousand Sons.

It's totally fine bro.

>>46229278
when i get around to doing mine, theyll be blue and white too. just go with whatever you think looks better 2bh.

at this point we dont know what color theyd be late heresy

>>46229315
>>46229316
Cool thanks.

>>46228959
Titan legion made during the heresy, stayed loyalist and stayed fighting on mars for the whole heresy.

>>46229132
Let's see, about 425pts for a 10 men non-compulsory all-plasma Support Squad w/ Dreadclaw, about 410pts for a 10 men all-combi plasma Reaver Squad w/ Dreadclaw. Reavers have Precision Shot and can be a compulsory troop w/ Mal. Hmm....

>>46229316
>at this point we dont know what color theyd be late heresy
Red with fading white and blue.

>>46229351
if you take 5man squads the support squads are cheaper by like 10 points, theyd be better with cheap orbital assault RoW pods though.

id still probably go for the plasmaguns anyway though, so if the 10 man squad isnt deleted they can still shoot shit.

DS combi plasma justaerin are the way to go though if you have nuncio voxes or horus so they dont scatter

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>>46205314

Should my Loyalist/Blackshield Word Bearers continue worshipping the Emperor or something else more deserving of worship?

>>46229448
Too bad there are only 2 combi-weapons for each terminator special weapons set.

>>46229518
id probably just use the regular legion combi-weapons.

reavers would be better than the support squad if you are using black reaving, it would give your justaerin ds

>>46229465
Have them worship the entities from the Howling. Or the Pale Wasting. Or whatever one it was.

why are the suzerain allowed to wear the aquila? I thoughy only EC were allowed to wear it until the actual heresy started?

>>46229518
Combi-plasmas are pretty easy to make from the plastic cataphractii combi-bolters. Just leave the left side off and put a plasma pistol on there. I tried it and it aligns pretty well with the bolter part.

>>46229105
Because they are super dependent on getting charges, but doesn't have anything to make the charges reliable like EC. Secondly, they can be baited by forced sweeping advances so the lack of tactical flexibility takes a toll.

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>>46229225

Post a better picture.

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>>46229764
yup just did this myself the other week, was really surprised how easy it was with the calth set bits. Its just combi bolter 1 side and plasma pistol the other with the hand chopped off.

>>46229003
are combi weapons ever worth it? Instead of firing twice and twin linked on short distance you get one normal shot per game with the combi part. In case of plasma it also may get hot. Sounds like a shitty deal.

>>46229969
I find the 40k plasma pistol to fit it better. I did a test fitting and snapped some shots, but naturally have gone and misplaced them somewhere, so can't post shit right now.

>>46229969
So you cutted off the under-barrel from the left part and glued it then?

>>46230011
Seeing that anything that's going to hurt things is quite likely not going to live long enough to fire a second time, yes. Why waste money on that all out plasma squad that gets to fire once before being drowned in phosphex, when you can get combis for way less for the same effect?

Also, the combi-part gets to fire as many times as the regular weapon. Combi-plasma's plasma gun part is rapid fire just like the regular plasma gun. So 10 combi-plasmas get as many shots as 10 plasma guns.

>>46230011
Because some squads can take only the combi-version, I guess.
Also, Warmaster's Potion lets you reroll 1s in first turn.

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What is the most fun battle you guys have ever had?

Does anyone have that screencap of the iron cage shit talk about filling the hole with bodies?

>>46230309

Just post the Dorn image dissing Perturabo and someone will post it. You dumb faggots are like Pavlov's dog.

>>46230075
the combi bolters from cath termis come in 2 halve pieces, just leave one off and cut the handle off the plasma piston

>>46223102
Since they're worried about Fabius fucking with genetics, get some apothecaries.

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>>46230413
>>46230309
You're not the boss of me.

What configurations do you guys like for your cataphractii terminators? Mine from calth are pulling an Abbadon and just mocking me at my desk

>>46230678
magnetize :^)

Does playing Alpha Legion get repetitive after a while?

Looking through the rules it just seems to be "Infiltrating marines with some random arsehole from another army. Oh and this guy is Alpharius and just swept your back line."

Can any AL players tell me otherwise?

>>46230691
Don't the shoulders glue to the arms though?

>>46226638
You just know Tzeentch told him ten seconds after he sold his soul.

>>46230734
Hmm thought I stopped namefagging.

>>46230749
you mean the shoulder pads? magnetize them too :^)

or stick them on with poster tack :^)

>>46230827
>Not building your 30k army out of posed magnets.
Casuals.

>>46230858
magenetized papercraft

>>46230561
I would but I don't have much place to put them. I would throw them in with the tacticals but the tacticals probably should have a dedicated transport if they are just 10 man squads and I lack the points to field blobs of tacticals plus it goes against the overall idea I am going for which is a fairly small elite force. Can Palatine Blades take apothecaries with the new rules?

Best way to represent paladins/knight order? I'm trying to come up with an order of marines who care more about some goal than sides, and are the best swordsmen.

Gal Vorbak could be 'Paladins', finding a union between daemons and marines for a holy goal, while Emperor's Children and Imperial Fists are amasing duelists/swordsmen.

>>46230734
>Looking through the rules for the most versatile legion, capable of pulling off nearly every tactic possible.
>Infiltrating marines with some random arsehole from another army. Oh and this guy is Alpharius and just swept your back line.

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>>46230992
DID SOMEONE SAY 1ST LEGION?

>>46230992

Dark Angels. Full stop. Preheresy dark Angels are a full blown knightly order in space, I'm sure one host or chapter was a lot more moral than the rest

>>46230734
You don't have to play that way. When you get bored, play an AL army more like the one at the Battle of Paramar.

>>46230911
You need a medicar primus foe them, and this would need to drop an hq. Maybe kose the honor guard to get bigger squads and apothecaries? You're going to lose casual games when your tacs get targeted and you can't get objectives

>>46230992
Templar brethren?

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>>46231003
Yes well that's why I was asking. Nice greentext though.

>>46231061
What way is that? And it's just whenever I hear anybody talking about AL, that's all it seems to be. Which is why I am wondering.

>>46230734

Not at all. The nice thing about mutable tactics is that you can make a completely valid army that has zero infiltrate in it. In fact, armored spearhead with a shitton of Dedicated land raiders with Scout is fucking badass

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>>46231105
>What way is that?
like less effective iron warriors

>>46231171
Oh sweet. And with tank hunters that does sound pretty sexy...

>>46231122
That sounds cruel. I like it.

Are banestrike rounds and headhunter kill teams worth it? They look cool as fuck.

ARE THERE MASTODON RULES IN THE LATEST HH BOOKS

I would like mastodon rules please

>>46231026
>>46231060
I know they win out in equal ws, but does anything about them make them better duelists otherwise?

>>46231105

That's the first thing people come to because that's essentially what Coils of the hydra requires.

You have to remember in fluff AL are known for their trickiness, not necessarily being sneaky. The AL arent like the raven guard or night lords where they won't engage in heavy warfare. They'll do whatever works. The newest book actually features a lot of fluff about AL armored columns.

Having a fuckton of land raiders show up out of no where like >>46231122 is totally in fluff for AL and fun in tabletop too

>>46231064
>You need a medicar primus foe them
This is what I thought, and I wanted to keep the champions to keep the overall theme of these guys being some of the best of the Palatine Blades who defected back to the Imperium. Honour Guard can only go up to five dudes and I may just drop them because they can't take Phoenix Spears.

Working on reforming the list and my overall idea is pretty much
>Praetor and 2 champs, praetor is a generic paragon blade, champs get Phoenix spears
>7 palatine blades with phoenix spears and sonic shriekers
>2 blobs of tacticals each gets an apothecary
>two land speeders for tank killing
>Dreadclaw
>Fire raptor

Leaves me with about 200 points left which I would prefer to invest in another assault unit, either palatines or honour guard, but I feel the points would be better served adding more firepower in the form of another fire raptor or something. While I could easily swap a champion for a primus medicae my practical idea is that 15 WS 6 and 21 WS 5, str 5, AP 2 attacks could shred any enemy unit in CC before they get the chance to swing back.

>>46231275

Well equal WS is a big deal because your dudes are going to probably be equal WS to everyone else due to Marines being the stars of the show

That being said calibanite war blades are the tits

>>46231258

Slap two Spartans together, add a void shield and give it an AA gun. 700 points

>>46231258
It's in book 6. Link is at OP

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>>46231225
just stay away from this guy

>>46231338
>>46231341

Good shout

>>46231225

Banestrikes are good on terminators, don't take them on seekers

Headhunters are fun and really mesh with the other AL tactics and Alpharius but they aren't optimal

The real tits of AL specific equipment are power daggers. They're 5 points, AP3 S-1 and a specialist weapon. That means your praetor gets +1A on his paragon for 5 measly points as do all your sergeants. It's great because for pretty cheap it allows you to keep your termi sergeants shooting while having max punchiness.

Also venom spheres are underrated as fuck and hammer of wrath + counter attack as a mutable tactic is just dickish

>>46231328
Careful with two melta speeders, armored ceramite is pretty common at 2000 points. Still, if this is just casual games then I wouldn't expect too many ceramite spartans. One thing I'd do is take Maru Saku so you don't have to take the dreadclaw and just outflank the palatines. Slap on some jump packs to them for gamner if wrath and mobility, then use the last points to get some anti-air. Contemptor dreads with dual auto-cannons are great for this, but fluffwise EC preferred las cannons because they were aesthetic as fuck.

>>46231565
Fuck auto correct, I mean hammer of wrath

>>46231122
>>46231278
What is the advantage of taking scout over infiltrate?

>>46231991
There are rules that can prevent units from infiltrating within a bubble of a certain unit or character, but no such rules to prevent scouting. Generally those things are short range enough that it's basically the same range that the infiltrate rule itself prevents you from getting too close to the enemy, though, so almost all of the time infiltrate is going to be superior. Infiltrate lets you flat out deploy after everything else, and almost anywhere on the table; scout lets you drop some guys and then re-deploy them within a relatively short distance... so, yeah, unless they make the no-infiltration radius for Augery Scanners or Djinn Sight bigger it's rare you'll run into any problems using it.

The one case I can think of where it might get weird is if both armies are using infiltrators and one of them has Augery Scanners in it to zone out the enemy from being able to deploy anywhere decent. You're still going to be alternating infiltrators, though, so you can't exactly box them out of the board entirely.

>>46231991

Scout works with dedicated transports (armored spearhead land raiders, fucking Spartans for terminators)

Also stacks with units who already have infiltrate

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>>46232120

>>46232192

>infiltrating Spartans and land raiders


CREEEEEEEEED

>>46232108
>>46232120
Scout, unless I'm mistaken, also lets you outflank. Fuck creed, you're the real tactical genius bringing in as many DT land raiders as you want right up their ass.

>>46232380
Outflanking LRs seems like a weird idea, though? Assuming they come on turn two they won't be able to get out and charge until at least turn three, and it only gets worse from there if they fail to come in right away.

What would be some effective ways to counter Spartan+Kharn+Red Butchers? Feels like literally 'It/they will not die.'

>>46230678
yep, magnetize. Glue the pauldrons to the torso to keep the arms swappable.
It does not look like the FW upgrade kits are fully compatible but you could at least use everything from the box.

My default configuration will resemble the Terminator squad from Dark Vengeance: the Sgt wields a sword for higher initiative in duels and shit (and as I play DA the sword is a bit better than a generic power sword), one guy has a chainfist in case I need the armourbane (though it is not the main task to smash vehicles, I have Heavies for that), the others have power fists (exchangable depending on free points). They all have simple combi bolters except one guy with the flamer (which I'd rather proxy for something else) because I have Heavies and guys with Plasma Repeaters for bigger shit.
They use a LR Phobos as DT because they are slow and would die if they'd just walk around.
That is a quite generic configuration.

>>46232476

Well in armored spearhead you take land raiders to be your actual AV threat, not necessarily for the tactical squads inside. Your termy Death Star can of course start on the board

>>46231275
no special characters and no special rules so far except stronger power swords.
But: you could try to hit the target with statis shells first to fuck up their WS before going to assault.

>>46232508

Counter primarch deathball

Medusas to pop the Spartan and splat the butchers

>>46232706
You're going to need a lot of medusas if you want to open a spartan.....