Horus Heresy General /HHG/

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first for perfection

>>46232875
...EC Suzerain?

Anyone read Eye of Terra? Is it worth getting?

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>>46232875
Second for perfection

>>46232875
EC Palatine Blades with Phoenix Spears, I think

How good are Ravenwing as knights? I want to run them as lancing knights, questing without a care for Loyalists or Traitors.

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>>46232801
Where exactly would Kaedes Nex be on the chain of command? How many officers would need to die before he is the one in charge? I'm trying to figure out what the chain of command for my RG legion would be, but Nex sticks out like a sore thumb.

Is this the correct order? Someone more knowledgeable about legion command structures should be able to correct me.

Corax
Praetor
Strike Captain Maun
Chaplain
Vigilator
Praevian
Primus Medicae
Librarian
Contemptor (Holding a former Captain)
Kaedes NexChooser of the Slain
Mor Deythan Shade
Tactical Sargeants

Also, filename.

>>46232981
Dammit internet connection. You have failed me.

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>>46233017
It's the Maru Skara, brother

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>>46232801
>Tell about Your Dudes
A collection of Night Lords who were slowly growing tired of their father's madness and their legion becoming a nightmare as they held themselves as "Night Lords with standards". After the Heresy they saw Chaos for what it is and realized that forgiveness isn't going to happen most likely after knocking over the Emperor's mailbox and raiding His favorite tea shop on main street. Now they roam the galaxy as treasure hunters trying to learn about the history of the galaxy under the guise of a loyalist chapter.

>>46232996
I always assumed Moritats were outside the chain of command, like librarians, chaplains and techmarines.

>>46233210
Well, if it was only Nex, a Contemptor containing a former captain, and squad sarges, who would be in charge?

>>46232968
>Its about to go off Sergeant!
>Quick everyone strike a pose!

Whats the best way to deliver Sigismund, and what's the best homies for him to roll with? Templar Brethren or Terminators?

Is it better to actually field custom Praetor instead of Abaddon if not using the Deep Strike Terminators?

>>46233322
The contemptor.

>>46233409
templar brethren kind of suck, sadly.

im going to be using the new RoW to buy siggy a teleport and DS him with 10 SS terminators. if dorn ever gets a model using the primarchs RoW with dorn would be good because hes so cheap, but afaik dorn cant buy teleport without using the new RoW either

>>46233569
yeah abby is worse in combat

>>46233588
now let's assume the contemptor gets exploded, leaving only Nex, 2 Tactical sarges, a Shade(Mor Deythan), and a Chooser of the Slain (Dark Furies)

Who would be in charge?

>>46233322

Contemptor or Sergeant. Nex would be the highest ranking but he wouldn't be in command.

>>46233750

Shade or Chooser. Quit making up stupid scenarios, a Moritat will never be a force commander. Squads won't even fight alongside him let alone take commands from him, other than Destroyers who are also shunned.

He is basically like Asterion Moloc who is the Chapter Master but the actual leader is Ivanus Enkomi.

Been away for a week, any update on ScanAnon's HH Masterclass book?

>>46233777
Are the Minotaurs loyalist SoH?

>>46233997

He posted a few pages, so we know it's being worked on.

>>46233777
so this would be the accurate Chain of Command-

Corax
Praetor
Strike Captain Maun
Chaplain
Vigilator
Praevian
Primus Medicae
Librarian
Contemptor (Holding Captain)
Chooser of the Slain
Mor Deythan Shade
Tactical Sargeants
Kaedes Nex

?

I'm just thinking that a Moritat is still an officer and would take command above squad sergeants. .

>>46234037
No, theyre a mixture of Iron Warriors and something else, possibly world eaters.

>>46233135
I still think maybe I should go with the first color scheme even if says "Children of the Day" than "Children of the Night".

>>46234037
>>46234091

They have a chimeric geneseed, so they aren't technically a successor of any one legion.

As one anon already mentioned, we have confirmation from a writer that part of that chimera is Iron Warriors, but its unclear what the rest is.

>>46234082
a moritat is only considered an officer insofar as their officer status gives them leave to attach themselves to a given formation and go where their gunslinging can be put to good use. Apart from that they have virtually no authority (can't be warlord or lone hq, don't benefit from named characters' buffs and don't get rites of war).

Nex in particular is unusual even as far as moritats go, as he's a Kiavarhan criminal and actively distrusted by most of his legion (he can't ever join a squad, period). Fluffwise, things would need to be especially bad, with no commanding officers present at all for him to take command in any way.

>>46234082
Remove chaplain, Primus Medicae and Librarian. (Also why bother putting up Nex)
Vigilator and Praevin are also hard to put in order, while technically being officers both are outside the usual chain of commands.

>>46234723
Why would the Chaplain, Primu Medicae and Librarian be removed? They are support officers, which is still an officer. Hell, Chaplain fills compulsory HQ.

>>46234082
Oh hey, I remember this from a previous thread. I think you need to stop thinking about the chain of command as a priority list and instead think of it as a tree. A lot of those people will have people under their command (at least administratively) but beyond that they're not leading rank and file soldiers into battle.

>>46235267
What I want to know is who would take precedence over whom in making (military) decisions on Isstvan 5.

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>>46234082
To further echo >>46235267

Also it would really depend on the Legion and a whole bunch of different things. Like a Praetor could represent a Lord Commander or even a regular Captain who's pretty good. It's whatever it needs to be and it's not really worth splitting autism hairs over it because it's never been fleshed out enough.

>>46234037
>>46234703
>>46234091

It just says "chimeric" in IA, but the writer who plays them at FW said on his Facebook (supposedly, could be photoshopped and nobody can link the actual conversation) says they are Iron Warriors.

>>46234082

- Primarch
- Praetor
- Senior HQ/Line Officers (Praetor/Centurion/Character Series)
- HQ
- Junior HQ (Centurion)
- Officers
- Veteran sergeants
- Sergeants

Moritats aren't in the chain of command and trying to rank the authority of various Centurion variants is pointless.

Anyone know of groups in the southeast running narrative campaigns?

>>46234082
Everyone is trying to be nice about it but here's the skinny.

You have autism, and this shit doesn't matter.

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If I make some marines with GK incinerators (removing all the markings), would they work both as regular and heavy flamers? I want to make a squad that I can use as regular flamer support squad in regular games and as heavy flamer heavy support squads in zone mortalis.

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I happened to come into some Emperor's Children bitz from ebay that I doubt are real FW bitz (so I realy don't want to resell them), but I'd like them to go to a good home. I know how much it sucks to just need 2 more pads or one head or whatever, so hit me at [email protected] if you'd like some. Also: I need at least 1 (maybe 2) BaC sergeant heads and 6 32mm bases, so if you'd like to do me a solid, feel free to get in touch.

>>46233610
Are templar brethren really that bad? I kinda thoughth that brethren + sigismund + spartan (or land raider if you're poor like me) was the iconic way to go!

>>46236154

Iconic usually means bad in GW games. No idea why.

Unless you are a 40k player who plays Tau, Iyanden, or Saim-hann.

>>46236004
I goofed, it's [email protected]

How are 1K Sons at sieges?

>>46236329
They don't have rules yet. This fall/winter should be the Propsero book.

>>46233610

>templar brethren

>bad

You what

>>46236529
I figured such information wouldn't be available until then, but I ask based on all current info. Like a rating with ten being Iron Warrior/Imperial Fist tier. What would be a reasonable ranking? 5?

>>46236582
Probably about a 1 or a 2

>>46236582
Well, the only noteworthy siege they were involved in was them getting their entire planet burned down, so I'm gonna go with not great.

>>46236530
they suck against ap2 and if you have siggy in the unit they will be fighting against an ap2 deathstar.
>>46236154
they are only good at killing power armor marines, pretty much all of the big deathstars youd be fighting are in artificer or terminator armor. like 10 templars in a land raider could be good, if really wanted them and sent them after tactical blobs.

>>46236592
>>46236604
I wanted to give them a four but sadly 1&2 feel right. Magnus must have realized that you can't be a wizard and be great at sieges unless your an Iron Warrior Librarian.

Has anyone played against/with the Imperialis Militia list? Is it as powerful as I think it is, especially with the ability to spam super cheap artillery and even cheaper infantry?

Looking at 3k pts, but I'm 65 over. Any thoughts on tweaks?

HQ

Champion [AA, Melta Bombs, Refractor, Barb-Lash Hook, Thunderhammer] (155 pts)

Elites

Apothecary [AA, Augury] (60 pts)

Apothecary [AA, Augury] (60 pts)

5x Red Butchers [Dreadclaw, Devourer w/ Chainfist & Thunderhammer] (395 pts)

Troops

20x Despoilers [Chainswords, Sgt w/ AA, Melta Bombs] (280 pts)

20x Despoilers [Chainswords, Sgt w/ AA, Melta Bombs] (280 pts)

10x Tacticals [Rhino] (185 pts)

Fast Attack

3x Attack Bikes Squadron [3x Multi-Melta, Melta Bombs] (165 pts)

3x Attack Bikes Squadron [3x Multi-Melta, Melta Bombs] (165 pts)

Heavy Support

Deredeo [Armored Ceramite, AML] (240 pts)

Spartan [Armored Ceramite, Flare Shield] (340 pts)

Spartan [Armored Ceramite, Flare Shield] (340 pts)

Lords of War
Angron (400 pts)
-Berserker Assault

>>46234705
Why not use common sense and have the most experienced guy take the charge, no matter the rank or status?

>>46235837
id say they're a good fit for flamers but what quad will take them?

>>46237866
Because now Iacton Qruze is First Captain.

So, what base size do we need to use again? For both 30k and 40k I mean.

>>46237866
Because they don't have experience leading people. Think of it like this, would you rather have leading you a sniper with a decade of experience shooting but no training or experience in tactics leading your unit or a sergeant who has been trained to lead soldiers and has done so for a while?

how does one get into warhammer 40k is there a book or something

>>46238009

30k is minimum 2000 average 2500
40k is minimum 1500 average 1850 in reality but is supposed to be no minimum average 1500

>>46238079
Uh, sorry. I was asking for the size of base (25mm? 32mm? ?mm?)

But thanks for the input. I'm aiming for 2500pts, but not sure if I should grab a LoW in that range or not.

>>46238031
But they are well-versed in guerilla and spec-ops, they don't necessarily have to lead, only kill.

>>46238155
According to the rulebook, "The base that was provided with the miniature"

>>46238155
i like the 32's because the marines fit on them better. also it makes blasts less effective

>>46237876
>I want to make a squad that I can use as regular flamer support squad in regular games and as heavy flamer heavy support squads in zone mortalis.

>>46238179
what's the best traitor legion to loyal with?

>>46238272
World Eaters

>>46238272
>>46238275
i forgot to add "and why?"

>>46238172
> My old FW legionaries came with 25mm
> new BaC legionaries come with 32mm

Mixed bases then?

>>46238155
I've been out of the game for a while, but it is my understanding is that all new marine kits will be supplied with 32mm bases instead of 25mm and this is the new standard for Power Armored models. Traditionally the rule has been the legal base is the one that the model shipped with, like when they went from 25mm bases on terminators up to 40mm.

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>>46238322
>Why?

>>46238272
whatever you want

what did you have in mind?

>>46238272

> Death Guards; Eisenstein
> Alpha Legion; those who sided with Omegon

>>46238248
shit my bad I had 40k marines on the mind

>>46238272
The "Best", dunno. I do know though that there's good fluff support for loyal Iron Warriors. Because of the long nature of their seiges they were spread out all over and didn't consistently turn with their primarch. One of the characters from HH3 (Kyr Vhalen) is a loyalist that winds up fighting Iron Warriors.

>>46238470
When does Kyr Vhalen fight other Iron Warriors? After Paramar they never mention him again.

>>46238324
I'm putting all my marines onto 32mm bases. My raptors are going onto 2mm bases because fuck removing all those bases.

>>46238414
It happens.

I just got 20 models I'm making into breachers and since max squad size in ZM is 15, I thought about making the last 5 into a small support squad element. Heavy flamers felt like a good idea, nothing like some S5 shredding and rending flame templates, but for regular games the heavy slot is quite crowded so thought that if I ever got a hole for a small unit, 5 regular flamers might get to do some damage, especially against the likes of militia.

>>46238508
I brain farted, my bad. Ignore me, too many beers.

>>46238524
>2mm bases

have fun balancing them on the table.

>>46238272
Night Lords.

Because I'm the motherfucking Batman.

>>46238553
1mm under either foot.

Please critique my Iron Hands Combatant ZM list

>750 points

>HQ
Forge Lord with Servo Arm, Artificer Armor, Cortex Controller, Cyber-Familiar, Melta Bombs, Rad Grenades, Refractor Field, Thunder Hammer, Volkite Charger

>Troop
15x Breachers with 3 Volkites, Sgt w/ AA, Cyber-Familiar, Melta Bombs and Power Fist

>Heavy Support
2x Castellax w/ Enhanced Targeting Array

> The Long March RoW
> LA (SoH) units have Relentless in friendly deployment zone

Would this make taking Heavy Support Squad viable? Or would it be still better to take vehicle for HS instead?

Also, if a model that has S&P gain Relentless through this, would S&P's penalty effectively ignored then?

>>46238943
Won't be an issue since you can't take any models with S&P if you use that RoW.

>>46238972
Ah, I missed that. Thanks.

>>46238943

HS are already viable but mostly just 48" LC and in smal numbers.

>>46238999
I guess you can fit S&P units via Deep Strike or in a transports but since Cataphractii isn't S&P anymore, not sure what units in 30k actually have that rule now.

is there any good way or reason to charnabal saber? (in any of the various 30k armies, including militia, solar, mechanicum, and the myriad marines)

>>46238272
Emperor's Children, because there's really no reason for them to not be loyalist

>>46239265
fuck off spammer

>>46233064
I kinda wish someone would shoop the banner into a huge pair of boxer shorts.

Without using Legion specific units, what would be the best way to wreck a Spartan?

>>46239363
Medusas and grav/las rapiers work pretty well for my lists, but I've never had to deal with more than two.

>>46239400
I'd bought Medusa if there was a cheaper GW plastic alternative like IG Basilisk. Damn thing is too expensive for me. Shame.

>>46239363

Medusa is the only guaranteed way to reliably kill it without resorting to things like charging it with melta bombs/fists and having it disembark on you. Most other methods will destroy the Spartan but it will also likely reach your lines.

Grav spam is another but that makes for shit lists. Everything else the Spartan is immune to/the armor is too high to reliably bring it down quickly from S8 and weaker.

>>46239469
resin kit can be a pain in the dick to assemble too, if it's warped. Still, it literally uses the Basilisk kit for the whole gun assembly. Just use some plasticard for the barrel, no one will be able to tell the difference.

jesus why are caedere weapons such fucking garbage?

>>46239265
>tips white male privilege

>>46239609
I too would like to know this.

I think that Excoriator Chainaxes are okay but there's other ways to wipe out MEQ

>>46239506
Or cut the thinnest part of the barrel away, leaving you a stubbier and fatter barrel.

Personally I was gonna go for a Thunderer style setup of a Russ hull with a hull mounted siege gun.

>>46239505
What about Venator or Laser Destroyer? Role's too narrow?

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That's a nice looking gun.

>>46239505
It's a shame they can't have siege shells like Militia does.

>>46239991
Every time I see this I can't stop thinking about Veronica Hulkbuster.

>>46240039
They're up for preorder now.

>>46240046
>that volkite gun
>that minigun stubber
erotic

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Ryza-Pattern-Lascannon-Set

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Mars-Pattern-Heavy-Bolters-Set

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Phaistos-Pattern-Heavy-Flamers-Set

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Mediant-Pattern-Multi-meltas-Set

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Proteus-II-Pattern-Missile-Launchers-Set

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Kalibrax-Pattern-Autocannon-Set

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Proteus-Pattern-Rotor-Cannon-Set

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Telerac-Pattern-Volkite-Culverins-Set

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Mars-Pattern-Plasma-Cannon-Set

>>46239985
Would Demolisher or Eradicator gun part be a fitting conversion material for Medisa?

>>46240062
You are a cool dood

>>46240062
I can hardly wait for Chinaman to get his hands on these.

>>46240055

I really like the Missile Launcher, Autocannon, and Rotary Cannon.

That each weapon set comes with a backpacks and such is nice too.

>>46240065
On a basilisk? The eradicator muzzle break could be fitted onto a shortened earthshaker barrel. Demolisher parts on the Russ kit are quite limited, so it's not really of any use.

>>46240080
>I'm a faggot

Good to know. How about you not bring it up at the drop of a hat at every occasion though?

Personally I like shoulder-mounted versions more because It looks more stable for an aiming purpose and less arm-tiring.

>>46240091
>being an angry neckbeard
>not being smart and saving money
>not realising that all your saved money adds up over a lifetime
>being afraid of getting cancer in a world where almost everything now gives you cancer

>>46240098
While I do enjoy shoulder fire heavy weapons for a number of reason, I don't mind some hip fired ones, especially rapid fire ones that I can picture being more practical at the hip for movement purposes. That is, advancing and laying down fire. Where as most single shot weapons seem best fired from the shoulder for better aim to account for their lower rate of fire.

But I do not object to the new guns, except the missile launcher, which looks quite silly to me. It feels like FW made these just so they wouldn't have to make new HW arms and backpacks for the different armour marks. Why they couldn't make such arms and backpacks a separate kit from the shoulder fired HW's I'll never know.

>>46240091
shut the fuck up, nerd

how does sucking neckbeard cock feel?

>>46240091
>get_a_load_of_this_nerd.jpg

>>46239505
How many medusas would it take?

There's always a penetrator lightning, but it only works if there's no interceptors about.

>>46240091
>I'm a huge neckbear

Good to know. How about you not bring it up at the drop of a hat at every occasion though?

>>46240140
>>46240146
>>46240164
STFU samefag..

FW does good work and you guys are taking money away from a struggling company.

You guys are worse than pirates

>>46240173
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jrKXf2G-AA

Can any traitor legion take daemon allies?

Is there any precident of Emperors Children fighting alongside slaanesh daemons?

>>46233409
Command Squad armed with either charnabal sabers or power axes.

> Deredeo+Autocannon+Plasma+Missile = $118
> Leviathan+Drill+Claw+Grav= $120
> Medusa = $89

Really not sure what would be the most $- and points- effective cophoice for an all-around list.

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>>46239991
WOOOSSSSSSH

Has anyone here converted up their own primarchs?

>>46240098
If they are struggeling with lifting and aiming, then they have inferior geneseed.

>>46239609
I know right.

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>>46240381
Shame that Rotor Cannons are still shit.

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>>46240413
Indeed, they look pretty neat, so does the autocannons.

>>46240301
IIRC only Word Bearers can do it at this stage.

Emperor's Children have have a sonic-themed RoW, however.

>>46232993
The Ravenwing ARE knights. They're what a majority of the veteran knights from old Caliban ended up in after Lion's reunification with the Emperor.

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>>46233337
Completely in-character then.

>>46240173
If the company didn't force us to sell a kidney to buy their products, I'd gladly buy from Forgeworld instead of Chinaman.

HQ: Zardu Layak with Blade Slaves – 275 points
Hol Beloth – 165 points

Elites: Gal Vorbak, 10x Brethren, 3X power swords, Artificer armour, meltabombs – 395 points
Gal Vorbak, 10x Brethren, 3X power swords, Artificer armour, meltabombs – 395 points
Mhara Gal Dreadnought – 305 points
Troops: Ashen Circle, 10X Incendiaries, Artificer Armour, Dark Channeling – 310 points
Tactical marines, 20X marines, Dark Channeling – 275 points

Fast Attack: Legion Outrider Squad, 6X Outriders, 3X Power swords, Outrider Sergeant – 225 points

Heavy Support: Leviathan Siege Dreadnought, Siege claw, Grav Flux Bombard, 2X TL Volkite Calivers, Armoured Ceramite – 320 points
Deredeo pattern dreadnought, Anvilus autocannons, TL heavy flamer, Aiolos Missile Launcher, Armoured Ceramite – 240 points

>>46238070
Start with your appropriate codex, after that, go to the W40k-general thread

>>46240620
You potentially have 0 scoring troops in your army, that can be a serious problem.

>>46240614
Forge World isn't expensive, if you can afford them it go play tic-tac-toe with the other slum monkeys.

>>46240658
It's something I can change.

>>46240682
It rapes your wallet if you live in Canada. Getting a decently sized army will cost you around $1000.

>>46240708
At least Calth helps out a bit.

>>46240915
To some degree. Legion specifics are a special kind of hell.

>>46241045
Convert?

>>46241045
Compensate with freehanding.
>inb4 can't paint
Practise.

>>46241045
Eh, for some units (EC Palatine Blades, for example) are probably better scratch-built, just because the best load out for them is actually Phoenix spears.

>>46238324
The base rule is whatever they came with is legal. However, they've been swapping everything in power armor to 32mm. I think even FW is doing it.

>>46240046
As silly as hip firing your missile launcher is, it does kinda make that guy look like a boss.

>>46240682
It's expensive compared to GW's regular stuff and humans are hardwired to be resentful against things they at some level percieve as then being a trick on them somehow. That's why people get buttmad whenever GW raises their prices.

This is quite silly and happened to me. The first impulse that went through my brain when I heard about the Betrayal at Calth box was that it had to be some kinda obvious downside to it that I wasn't seeing.

This is because GW has made me frustrated over the year for several reasons and my confirmation bias was typically set on being cynical about anything GW did. A major part of that cynicism was the death of WHFB and Age of Sigmar being what it is. Now, I have readjusted my thinking because the B@C was actually a fine product for its price and GW has been offering better deals on many things.

So people make retarded assumptions about things because the brain has an autopilote that doesn't do critical thinking. Most people in the world always use the autopilote mind to pass judgements. This is because the brain needs to save energy over everything you encounter in life. This is why people struggle with not buying candy on the way out of the store. Just having to think about that candy uses up so much energy in the brain that people typically end up buying the candy to replace that energy.

So people will happily buy recast because they on some level think that they are turning the tables on GW are screwing GW over.

The brain's pleasure center can also make you addicted to shitposting because of dopamine spikes. So the human brain is as amazing as it is flawed.

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What are these bamfs like?

>>46240585
It really does look like an 80's toy when painted in purple and gold.

>>46241045
I'll try and convert a model instead, as long as the original model is not too specific or awesome.

>>46232996
Is this lad a special character or something?

>>46241276
>bamfs
baby angron mother fuckers?

>>46241337
Me too, converting and messing with greenstuff is fun for me, so I dont mind.

>>46241276
If you can actually get them into CC, they will shred even a full squad of marines. The problem is getting them there.

>>46241622
I'm trying to make a pressmould of an old metal Chaos Raptor jump pack with greenstuff and I'm having a hard time getting it right. I always seem to end up with a weird angle or something when using the magic mould. At this rate I feel that I would just save time and greenstuff by buying a Sanguinary Guard box instead.

>>46241613
Bad ass mother fuckers. But close.

>>46236921

It's a weird list.

> Pros
- 2pt infantry go a long, long way
- Especially when those 2pt infantry are Rending Zealots with A3
- Rogue Trader can get you AP3 Heavy Bolters, AP3 Autocannons, AP2 Missiles etc.
- T6/3+ Ogryns are basically alternate Gal Vorbak

> Cons
- Your only transport options are a 300pt Superheavy, a non-combat Flier, or playing a specific Rite-equivalent
- Surprisingly limited in anti-tank options
- The reality of paying for 2pt infantry hordes in cash

They make outstanding allies at any rate, giving you a cheap horde to mob objectives. They also work as a foil to players who thought they were fighting 3+ saves and find that they literally do not have enough guns to kill you. Also, Spawn and melee hordes can throw a wobbly if the enemy isn't prepared.
Wouldn't run them solo however because anti-tank is a really big issue.

>>46241590
He's a Mor Deythan Shade (Sargent).

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>>46240046

> 40k CSM can't take Plasma Cannons or Multi-Meltas because they weren't man-portable during the Heresy

>>46241774
They also drive the same Rhinos as the Imperium. They are also 10,000 year old Rhinos and yet some HH fags gets bent out of shape when using that pattern.

>>46241080
Speaking of which, best way to make a pheonix spear?

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>>46241804
Because autism runs strong in them.

I like the Mars pattern more. Deimos would be nice if it had been pure MkI and not a MkI bodykit for the Mars.

>>46241847
GK halberds with (High/Dark) Elf spearhead?

>>46241879
Do we know anything about forge world Deimos?

>>46240413
>When they make a run move they must take an initiative test
>If they fail they trip and fall, the unit stops its run move and goes to ground

>>46242009
Nevermind. I'm an idiot.

>>46242009
Is it not just Mars's moon Demios?

>>46242022
>Agh my fucking leg: if the unit fails it's initiative test in two successive turns, it may not attempt any run moves for the rest of the game.

Slightly odd question.
Can a named special character get a DAoT relic as the result of a Relic Hunt mission?

Fellow traitors; Are Daemons playable in 30k, and can I ally them with a Traitor legion, and if so, at what degree of alliance?

>>46242205

1) As an allied detachment for a Primary- Word Bearers, *if* you have taken the right WB HQ
2) As a solo, no-allies force, *if* you have taken the right Daemon HQ

They are significantly more powerful than the Legions and so they cannot be taken straight in, but only in self-handicapped ways.
You can take them with one of the 300+pt Daemon Princes, if you have Erebus or Zardu, or with the Word Bearers Rite.
The Rite is the only way to take them without any special characters.

>>46242276
I hope Inferno gives us a tzeentch daemon of ruin finally

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>>46232801

Brothers!

What is the matter with these Telerac pattern Volkite Culverins that just popped out on the FW site with variants of lascannons and other shebang.

Is this just aesthetically different?

Because the text is different from the regular ones and also quite cool!

I am happy with either variant but would hope that they bring more volkite goodnes with different rules.

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>mfw traitor fucking shits think they can betray the emperor and get away with it

>>46242947
Just an aesthetic difference to give player more conversion options.

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Beat way to represent a loyalist mechanicum force that's gone full FUCKING TRAITORS GET OFF OF MY FORGEWORLD REEEEEEEEEEE?

I'm thinking reductor, but I dont know how to best represent them brining iut the big guns, the forbidden shit from the dark age of technology to just ruin people's shit.

>>46232968
>>46240585
Ooh, from which book are these?
The old visions of heresy one?

>>46241324
You say this as if it was a bad thing.

>>46243002
visions of heresy, yeah

>>46242038
It is indeed.

Take one movie and turn it into a scenario in the Horus Heresy.
>From Dusk Till Dawn
I need help with this one.

>>46243162
Something similar to the Plague of Unbelief storyline that ran during the last Black Crusade?

>>46243162

>Secret members of the Cult of the God emperor become trapped in a bar overrun by nocturnal slaaneshi daemons after being kidnapped by a pair of smugglers

>>46243216
>>46243255
I can work with both of these.

>>46243162
>Gods of Egypt
The Horus Heresy. It was already like 80 percent of the way there. Do a little recasting, spend cgi budget on sweet power armor and gothic architecture instead of weird transformers robots and egyptian architecture. It could have been the best warhammer movie ever made, with 0 cost increase, and instead was a wholly forgettable pulpy faux-egypt mess. no im not mad what do you mean

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Starting an EC army.

>pic related

Can't decide. Convince me.

>>46243379
Horus's face screams "Do it faggot", while that EC seems to be warm in the Emperor's light. And for once the Emperor has different color eyes. They're normally black but in that picture I can see some blue. Stay in the light's warm embrace. Don't stay in Horus's cold presence. He'll make you look like a teenage girl's bedroom.

>>46243379

Kakophoni are dope, but traitor EC are played out. Do loyalist (or pre-heresy so they haven't had to choose) EC.

>>46243330
I never said you were mad.

>>46243379
>going traitor
ISHYBDDT

>>46242973
Myrmidons seem pretty REEEE. Techpriests too autistic to work with other techpriests on normie technology so they go full autist /k/ melting faces with radiation weapons and shit.

>>46242960
Dorn for next Bond.

>>46242969
Cool.

I love martian ray guns.

>>46243023
Thanks.

>>46243379
You could always do what I did and do reformed traitors.
>Betray loyalists at Isstvan III
>Butcher Iron Hands and Isstvan V
>Eventually realized "Holy Shit this is what my legion has become"
>Defect back to the Imperium keeping your distance from the regular loyalists so you don't get shot in the back.

>>46243379

Stay loyal!

Loyal EC are arguably the best of the best!

>>46243545
Hmmm, sort of ok.

Why not: Be on a splinter expedition fleet, have one of Fabulous Bill's acolytes working on some of the upper echelons...the scope of shit gets revealed..the lower ranks manage to kill off their corrupt superiors and end up being sort of hertical due to augmentation that were allready implanted.

>>46241847
I just get the real spears of a re-cast kit.
>inb4 FW nerd brigade.
No buying whfb bitz second hand is not better for them, stfu.

>>46243587
That works too. The advantage of reformed traitors is that it justifies stuff like sonic shriekers (doubt you can just rip them out) and it means that if you want you can sometimes field them as traitors before they came to a realization.

Granted part of the allure of Emperor's Children for me is the fact that they are tragic heroes. Former exemplars of humanity obsessed with perfection, their perfection eventually led them to damnation in the form of their desire to prove themselves and better themselves. The idea of units like Phoenix Guard and Palatine Blades becoming more and more debased going from champions of humanity and the superiority of humanity over xenos to perverse psychopaths. Also allows for some good opportunities to convert their baroque armour to illustrate how far they have fallen.

>>46243649
Yeah.

Also rules wise it totally rocks to play traitors.

Angel's Wrath led by Eidolon, phoenix spear, hsriekers and jump pack equipped palatines?

Possibly in Storm Eagles?

Hit and run in Jumppacks WITH Phoenix spears is just gross combined with the +1 ini bonus.

>>46243649
Yeah from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows.

Even the Sons of Horus didn't fall as far as them.

Did any of the traitor legions ever cop just how fucked they were for joining Horus? Did they ever realise just how bad a deal Chaos was?

I mean, during the scouring they must have understood they were heading into literally hell itself.

>>46243717
>By the time I found I was marching into Hell I no longer cared...
More or less.

>>46243717
>Did any of the traitor legions ever cop just how fucked they were for joining Horus?
Night Lords

>>46243717
Well the ones that cared about that ended up running away or got killed off I think.

>>46243717
It was mentioned in the Lost and the Damned once Big E killed Horus some of the traitors stopped and rejoined the Imperials after having Horus's control over them removed.
>>46243744
Some of the more Chaos-Y types probably did kill them.

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>>46232801
Gal Vorbak don't seem all that impressive when you can just ally in daemons.

I mean, by the standard of other legions they are great. But when you start bringing in friggin DAEMONS they start pale a bit.

Especially with nonsense like greater daemons.

So why would you ever bring Gal Vorbak?

>>46243907
Because they are cool and daemons are smelly.

>QED

>>46243960
Well... that's least 25% true...

>>46243717
Little Horus.
That Night Lord in Pharos

>>46243907
Bringing in daemons restricts your army list to certain HQs or one RoW. Gal Vorbak instead make for a wider array of list building options.

Also why wouldn't you? It's like the number one most iconic WB unit. If you want a daemon army that's cool and fine to take daemons instead, but if you want a tainted power armor army you've got Gal Vorbak. Different strokes for different folks.

>>46243907
In my mind they're not competing with greater daemons. For me 200 points of gal vorbak are better than 200 points of daemonettes/bloodletters/plaguebearers. (And no, I haven't actually mathammered it.)

Anyone have the art of the Eye of Horus with serpents coiling around it in good quality, or know in which book it can be found?

>>46242009
Didn't the Grey Knights steal it from Mars' orbit to be their own private Forge World?

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>>46244077
This good?

>>46243379
Do cocaine!

>>46244111
It's excellent, thanks!

>>46243379
Who is the EC guy?

Just a representation?

How would you go about starting a SoH army?
Seems that BaC is as good a place as any. Throw on an upgrade kit and buy some Kromlech to make them pop.
Get a Reaver set and some Mk5, mix them together for a watered-down 10man squad? Get some Kromlech jump oacks and combis at the same time.
Maybe make 20 tacticals and 10 supports/heavies/vets?
Or grab some Rhinos, Dreadclaws and Javelins?
Any love for brass etch?

£100 and I get to enter the titan competition!

>>46244208
Sounds good, but I am really angry there are no MKIV packs.

But what can you do...

>>46243379
"Don't listen to him, he's trying to lead you down the path of the righteous."
"I'm gonna lead you down the path that rocks!"

>>46243705
I've always preferred generic praetor. Give them a sonic shriekers, paragon blade, some other specialist weapon, digital lasers, a jump pack, and an Iron Halo, throw them in with the Phoenix Spear Palatines.
>Praetor gets 7 I6 attacks on the charge
>Palatines Get a combined 30 I5 attacks on the charge
>All attacks are S5, AP 2
>16.4 unsaved wounds against marines on average before invulnerable saves or FnP

You could also throw in a champion and forge lord so you can take rad grenades and get an extra 2 Phoenix Spears for 25 wounds before invuls or FnP. Extremely expensive but fuck can they wreck face.

>>46244429
True, but isn't Eidolon sort of mechanically better while being less expensive?

Being inside a squad of chosen warriors would even protect him from being counter challenged in the cc phase before he would hit and run out.

How would you justify traitor Blood Angels?

>>46241337
Sadly it's Gal Vorbak. They're way too damn awesome.

>>46232993
Okay, we've got too many meanings of "knight" in this heresy of ours.

Would appreciate c&c on my Long March list I've been mulling over a while. It also scales up to 3k with Horus and more termies.

2000 Total

Legion Vigilator
Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon, Refractor Field

Maloghurst the Twisted

Legion Tactical Squad
20x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Extra CCW
Artificer Armour, Power Fist

Legion Terminator Squad
Dreadclaw, Chainfist, 4x Combi-Weapon,
3x Lightning Claw, Tartaros Terminator Armour
··Legion Terminator Sergeant
Combi-Weapon, Grenade Harness

Reaver Attack Squad
10x Reavers
Dreadclaw, Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, 2x Power Fist, 10x Volkite Charger
Legion Apothecary
Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Power Sword

Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery
3x Legion Rapier, Shatter Shells

Deathstorm Drop Pod
Drop Pod Assault, Deathstorm Krak Launchers

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer
Auxiliary Drive, Dozer Blade

Thanks guys

>>46244504
Eidolon is better so long as you don't run into any T5 characters, so basically just bike-characters.

>>46244530
Filthy plebs who suck blood instead of scrapping and licking it. That is the only reason why Blood Angels would turn traitor. Or maybe the Warp spawned madness at Signus Prime, or their bodies are treacherous while their minds aren't.

>>46244530
Anger over their flawed geneseed?
We had BA player join chaos in our new campaign because in the last one he took crazy high losses overall so he fluffed that they became disillusioned fighting for the emperor

>>46244504
>True, but isn't Eidolon sort of mechanically better while being less expensive?
Same price, 205 for the aforementioned praetor, 205 if you take jump pack Eiodolon. Besides the praetor is better at attack spam 7 vs 5 attacks on the charge, and with rad grenades becomes even better.

Honestly it is probably a matter of personal taste, either way I don't consider it reliable for EC to kill anyone important before they get a chance to swing, Eiodolon lacks enough attacks to deal with invul saves, and praetors either need 3 or more attacks to get through or to roll a lucky six or two.

>>46244595
>>46244566

Good Arguments, thanks.
Also you get an actual warlord trait with a regular praetor.

>>46244555
I don't feel qualified to give you advice on this, but I like the gist of it.

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>>46242960
What are the guidelines for markings? I mean, the aquila's out for all but EC, right? So what markings would be the most generic Imperial or Legion ones during 30k? There's a lot of lighting bolts I see on some models (MkIII armour, for one), there on Dorns collar and stuff like the Imperial Army emblem. I thought this was phased out after the Unification Wars.

>>46241774
No it's because their forges would rather stuff daemon penis into a weapon than make or repair classic tech

>>46244735
Hm, Solar Auxilia has some decals and stuff.

>>46244735
No, the Horus heresy mentions that there are two sorts of aquilas, one being the standard one everybody is allowed to use and the other one's the two headed one which only the EC may use

>>46244771
Any sources for that? As in pictures?

>>46244792
It's in one of the novels, forget which, but I do remember it was from a traitor's perspective and they were making fun of the Ultramarines

>>46244838

>Hurhur, only ONE HEAD.

F-fuck, you traitor scum!


Damn traitor EC Bullies.

>>46244530
A company gave in to the Red Thirst, was too ashamed to go back to Papa Sangi and continued an independent killing spree. Or after going berserk, A Word Bearer convinced them that there was an entity that loved what they were doing and they were already serving him well without knowing it. So don't go back to a master that wants to deny you this rage - convert to the Blood God now! Call in the next 20 minutes and you'll points for every skull collected, free!

>>46244933

Good argument!

How would you do it with others though?

IF seems hard if you are not copying IW.

>>46243717
Death guard coped it worse becoming walking bags of shit and pus

>>46245005
They were shit to begin with, Mortarion's Deathguard that is.

>Poor Dusk Raiders.

>>46244005
Nahrek the word bearer sniper
Luc sedirae
Horus in the short story warmaster gets pissed of that he only has the dickhead primarchs on his side - which is especially stupid since he recruits them by offering total freedom to do what they want to anyone

>>46244079
Yes This moon provides the Grey Knights with the majority of their ammunition, armour and equipment which ranges from psycannons to Land Raider components to starship ordnance within the Forge World's subterranean halls. Only the more unique weapons such as Nemesis Force Weapons are not made on Deimos, instead they are crafted by the Chapter's Techmarines at their Fortress Monastery. The transfer of Deimos-produced equipment is primarily done through dull-minded Servitors who have their memories scrubbed shortly after completing their task. This process prevents the arcane secrets of the Grey Knights from falling into the hands of the Adeptus Mechanicus whilst also allowing the Adepts of Mars to shelter their own dangerous knowledge from the Chapter.[1]

>>46244735
Laurels are pretty common
But in general legion honours are more individualistic
Remember there's actually less space for decorations since you have legion symbol and then individual chapter symbol

>>46245061
He didn't offer them total freedom- he offered what they wanted most.
Angron wanted revenge for being teleported.
Mortarion wanted to banish the psykers that he though were making the Imperium weak.
Fulgrim went crazy.
We don't know what he promised Konrad.
Alpharius was already corrupted by the Cabal.
Perturabo was promised forgiveness for Olympia.

>>46245177
I'm just wondering that if I start decorating shit or using like 40k bits that what's kosher and what's not.

>>46243717
>Did any of the traitor legions ever cop just how fucked they were for joining Horus? Did they ever realise just how bad a deal Chaos was?
Mortarion spent the entire Heresy like this, but kept going along with it anyway.

>>46245231
>We don't know what he promised Konrad
Konrad was fatalistic and thought there was no point in trying to fight against fate. "My children will spread terror and death in ten thousand years, my brothers will try to kill themselves, and I have no other choice." and then there was the spilt personality and insanity. Horus probably didn't need much.

>>46244984
Dark Angels: the guys stuck on Caliban felt abandoned.

White Scars: these guys were pretty close to going traitor as a whole legion, and they had a strong warrior lodge culture. Easy enough to assume that they interacted with other legions through the lodges and shifted their loyalties to the Warmaster – especially because they’re so specialized, which means they’re likely to have been spread out to help each expedition.

Space Wolves: hard to imagine because they feel like a pretty unified force, but the FW books hint at renegade SW forces. If they’re used to fighting against Imperial forces already, I could see them going on punitive crusades against planets they don’t like even though they weren’t actually traitor planets.

Imperial Fists: this one’s the hardest. Maybe not impossible, but I can’t come up with a story.

Iron Hands: these guys were already pretty crazy, and a clan might have close ties with traitor elements on Mars. Or a bunch of survivors get help from a traitor forge world that subverts them as it gives them tainted prosthetics.

Ultramarines: cut off from the rest of the legion during the Ruinstorm, they’re surrounded by Chaos for so long that they feel abandoned and hopeless and succumb to it, much like happened to the Death Guard in their ships. Or… maybe some of them enjoyed destroying the Word Bearers’ monuments to the Emperor a little too much. They don’t need him; he was always so far away and Ultramar never needed his help. I don’t see them siding with Horus after what happened at Calth, but they’d be renegade.

Salamanders: they like going into hostile environments, so maybe they get stuck in one where only Nurgle can save them (even more heat resistance!).

Raven Guard: they’re already Night Lords-lite. I can see them getting too obsessed with their Warcraft.

>>46245496
>Space Wolves: hard to imagine because they feel like a pretty unified force, but the FW books hint at renegade SW forces. If they’re used to fighting against Imperial forces already, I could see them going on punitive crusades against planets they don’t like even though they weren’t actually traitor planets
That same company may be that same warband called the Dark Wolves or something.

Haven't kept up with the HH novels lately. What's up with the White Scars almost going traitor?

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>>46244208

I CAN FEEL THE WARP OVERTAKING ME
IT IS A wallet-based PAIN

>>46245496
Space Wolves may be individual companies that feel that the loyalist legions using Librarians is breaking the edict of nikea and bring it upon themselves as the Executioner's sons to end this heresy.
Imperial Fists are garrisoned on a backwater world and slowly get corrupted because they feel they're missing out on the glory their brothers have.
Iron Hands go Khornate after Ferrus gets killed.

>>46245547
most of the terran members dislike the chogorian way of life and start to gather in lodges, and during the second battle of prospero they perform a coup and try to take power from the Khan

>>46245655

Ouch. At least the RG stopped that shit before it got started.

>>46245547
Assuming it's based on Scars, I didn't read it that way. The Khan seemed to me to pretty much always be on the Emperor's side, he just wasn't sure which legions were fighting for the Emperor. Confused reports and orders came in as they came out of warpstorm isolation, and Horus tried to trick them into going after the Wolves (painting Prosporo as evidence they were renegade).

The lodges did try to seize the flagship while the Khan was away thinking that would persuade him to join their side. When he got back he was like 'wtf, that was never going to work, I'm not letting you take my legion from under me'.
>"You knew I would come back" said the Khan. "Or did you plan to keep me away until the fleet was secure in your hands?"

Incidentally, I liked his little bit of cheek when finishing a message to the space wolves:
>"Then wish him a safe winter, or whatever it is they wish one another when they have finished speaking."
>...
>"Until next winter?" Russ asked. "He really said said that?"
>"An attempt at politeness, I think"
>Russ snorted.

>>46245768
I don't know about the "always on Emperor's side" bit; he seemed ready to swing to any side until he talked to Magnus' ghost.
Also yeah, that bit with the greeting was hilarious

>>46245496
>Salamanders: they like going into hostile environments, so maybe they get stuck in one where only Nurgle can save them (even more heat resistance!).
Any other ideas for traitor salamanders?

>>46245925
In Ravenlord there's a traitor RG that was captured during Isstvan V along with others and was converted to Chaos by lorgar himself, could go that way

>>46245925
Salamanders are friendly to civilians, right? Maybe they just get tired of the Imperium's harshness, without having seen what Horus is up to.

>>46245768
Khan vs. Mortarion was pretty epic, but that made me hate Draigo kicking DP Morty's butt even more.

>>46245496
>Imperial Fists

Alpha legion convinces a certain group of Fists that the Emperor and Dorn is dead, treason is amongst anyone not with the Warmaster, eventually they learn the truth but theyre too far gone into the heresy.

>>46245801
Well, that was just my interpretation. May well be wrong, the bloke's pretty mysterious, but to me it seemed more that he wasn't sure who the good guys were rather than not being sure if he wanted to be a good guy.

>>46245592
Ouch.

I hope you win.

>>46246019
reminder that salamanders are a shitty legion/chapter and are unfit for 40k.

>>46245496
>Imperial Fists
How about a garrison force? Left behind and forgotten. They become bitter and throw their lot in with Horus.

"Honour and Duty. These were our words."
"Lies, all of it. For 50 years we fought to conquer this rock and for what?"
"Duty? Tell that to my brothers torn apart by those Xenox filth."
"Honour? What honour was there in massacring infected children?"
"And afterwards, were we thanked? No, we were stationed here as a garrison, forgotten and left to rot."
"Now they need us? they call for us to join Terra?"
"I spit on them. The Warmaster, he promises vengeance and blood, this we will collect in copious amounts."

>>46246263
That's pretty much just iron warriors' motivation for turning though.

>>46244792
It's in the Emperor's Children FW write-up. They're very specific to mention the difference between the Palatine Aquila and the Imperial Aquila.

>>46245708
Somewhat. HH6 shows that there were still a number of Terran survivors from the Gate 42 incident, but not nearly enough to incite a rebellion like the White Scars.

>>46246339
Iron Warriors actually got to fight though. A garrison force left in place for 50 years were soldiers with no purpose.

>>46246339
still works though
Plenty of IF garrisons were stationed around the place.

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So, what do people think? It doesn't take into account point cost, so it feels skewed to me.

>>46246624
Far from perfect, but not bad.

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>>46245027

>>46240413
I'll probably end up using them as counts as for the Blood Angels Assault Cannons.

>>46245592
You've got to e-mail them a name and story about your hypothetical titan.

>>46246624
I feel the rotor cannon has too many stars on everything except light infantry. Maybe they don't want to admit that it's a bit shit.

>>46247097
so what's the big list of underwhelming weapons added in 30k?

>>46245768
The verbal beat down of Mortarion was pretty amazing/hilarious.

You goofed up Morty and now you are an insecure little bitch waiting for chaos to come collecting it's due.

>>46246624
Multi-melta's kind of overrated I think. Armoured Ceramite everywhere in these days.

>>46246624
Why is the Autocannon better at killing medium infantry than light infantry?

>>46247312
Also they're arguably worse than meltaguns on anything non-relentless.

>>46247396
Low rate of fire vs. AP4?

>>46247396
Its more of a comparison rating system it looks like. Pretty much you aren't comparing them in a vacuum but to other options. So when shooting at light infantry an autocannon is worse than a rotorcannon, volkite culverine, heavy bolter, and heavy flamer. But when facing medium infantry it starts to surpass the rotorcannon and catches up with the others because their higher number of shots or whatever don't mean quite as much if your target is T4 or gets an armour save.

>>46246624
Well, I think Sniper Heavy Flamer gonna be the best option against all non-vehicles.

Any of you fine gents have the "It's the miniature minigun pose" macro/picture/whatever?

>>46233064
Loyalist ECs?

>>46247866
I wish there was a reason to make vet tacticals anything other than snipers.

>>46247916
Yep.

>>46247979
Melta bomb squad+Tank Hunters
Special Weapons+Outflank
Power weapons+Furious charge

Theres plenty options.

>>46245231
>We don't know what he promised Konrad.
He didn't promise Konrad anything. Konrad was already on the Imperium's shit list, Horus just gave him safe haven.

>>46243379
I would ask why the EC has light shining out of his armour in the Horus pic but then I remembered that Emperor's Children are FABULOUS!

>>46247866
>>46247979
I understand it's legal rule-wise, but rationally can't understand how the hell you 'snipe' your enemy with a damn AoE weapon.

> Aim for the eyes, Boo...rother!

>>46248179

It's a pinpoint, penetrating strike on his everything!

>>46248076
Yeah, same goes with Angron. The Night Lords were going to get sanctioned for their increasingly bat-shit crazy (heh) terror campaigns. The World Eaters were getting out of hand (even Horus couldn't control Angron at Istvann III) and Angron disobeyed the Emperor and kept implanting the Butcher's Nails in his marines.

It's worth noting that when Curze realizes during the Drop Site Massacre he's thrown his lot in with capital-C Chaos he's pretty disgusted, but doesn't have anywhere else to turn to at that point.

>>46237274

Just a bump for this. Only time I'll do so.

>>46248244
That reminds me, why didn't Horus just bomb Isstvan III until everything's dead, or destroy the planet entirely? It's not like that the Traitors didn't have air/space superiority or something.

>>46248311
Because Angron beat him to it by assault the faggots.

>>46248311
Angron being Angron. Horus was close to bombing him but Eberus talked him out of it.

>>46248311
That was the plan, but after the initial Virus Bombing, Angron got fed up with waiting and dropping himself and a huge pile of his legionaries on the surface, forcing everyone's hand.

>>46248270
it looks solid, double spartan seems good.

if you can somehow figure out how to cut points upgrading the champion to a praetor would only cost like 30 points and would be better.

Hmm. It's not like that 3 Primarchs can't physically suppress one Angron or something. Also, why didn't all 4 of them go down and kick the Loyalist's ass?

What am I doing, I'm trying to find rationality on Warhammer.

>>46248332
The munitions to destroy it entirely was cost ineffective. Without the warning feom Saul's warning, the loyalists sould have been purges in one blow saving a lot of time, effort, and resources. He was going to blow the place to shit conventionally after the virus failed, but then Angron went full rage mode. After that, then Horus bombed it to shit.

>>46248425
>Also, why didn't all 4 of them go down and kick the Loyalist's ass?
they did. read book 1.

>virus bomb
>doesnt kill all of loyalists
>angron says fuck it and drop pods down with his homies
>horus is pissed that angron is being stupid and wasting men again but has no choice
>everybody goes down
>everything dies

>>46248425
I'm pretty sure that none of the others were gonna try and stop Angron in the middle of a rampage.
Besides even if they had the bulk of the WE were already on the ground and they couldn't afford to leave them behind

>>46248311
Destroying planet entirely = Decidedly difficult.

That's what the Planet Killer is for, but A) It won't be built for another 10,000 years and B) It needed to be built partially in the warp for the physics of its monstrous gun to even work.

Well, that or the Black Stone Fortresses, as those can just kill the star itself with their Warp Cannon, but those aren't occupied/found yet I think?

File: SaulTarvitz.jpg (94KB, 600x875px) Image search: [Google]

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>>46248425
>>46248428
>Eidolon
>Angron
>Mortarion
>Warmaster Horus

4 Legions, 3 Primarchs, all their support. Still couldn't punch hard enough. Had to get the last 100 by resorting to orbital bombardment. Still didn't get everyone.

Saul Tarvitz did the equivalent of pulling Horus' big fancy wolf pelt over his face and shoving him down a flight of stairs.

>>46248587
Yeah it's hilarious how incompetent the traitors are.
Half a century to plan, all the advantages and always having the upper hand and still failed to crown Horus

>>46248587
Saul vs. Garro; who made bigger impact on Heresy?

>>46248699
garro. without garro it wouldve been all of traitor legions vs just the IF at terra, as the opening battle.

>>46248732
The FW books say Horus never planned to head straight to Terra, and with good reason.
Just because he killed the Emperor doesn't mean that Guilliman, russ , Lionel and ferrus won't be coming for him

I wish HH novel ends with Loken saying "I was there, the day Horus slew the Emperor."

>>46248777
>Just because he killed the Emperor doesn't mean that Guilliman, russ , Lionel and ferrus won't be coming for him
nah it wouldve been over, without the emperor demons wouldve just gone apeshit and started an invasion. and the traitors wouldve been able to fortify the shit out of terra before the other legions even showed up.

DA would be busying killing each other, russ wouldve been at the scouring while terra was falling since its so early in the timeline, it wouldve been ferrus and girlyman trying to siege the traitors + demons at terra.

not to mention they wouldve probably kept a few traitor legions secret, like the alpha legion, so you couldve had another dropsite massacre at terra.

>>46248808
>implying they'll ever end
>implying they won't redo the series when the book where Horus dies is released

>>46248808
They most likely will, BL love book ends like that

>>46248878
It won't be over.
Just because you depose the leader doesn't mean you've won, just ask Bush.
Horus would have had the mother of all insurgencies on his hands

>>46248808
It really has to either start or end with it. There's really no good way around it.

Same as the last Rebuild of Eva movie having to be named You Must (Not) Run Away.

File: Emperor_vs_Horus.jpg (429KB, 1680x1050px) Image search: [Google]

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>>46248808
I hope it doesnt, I hope the last is an anthology of short stories all taking place during the siegge and from different points of view with the last page being a Blanche artwork of this pic or just this pic.

>>46248932
Doesnt matter, chaos wins as reality is consumed by another warp storm. Whatever happens next doesnt matter, the Emperor is dead.

>>46248878
>DA would be busying killing each other,
Arguable. The Fallen sat out all 10 years of the Heresy before going rogue, and they did it because they got left out.

It's entirely possible that if Lion showed up 10 years earlier to pick them up for battle there never would have been a schism.

>>46248878
That reminds me, Big E had to use all his might to suppress daemons fucking Terra from wrecked
Webway. How the hell did the Loyalists managed that after Big E died?

>>46248932
did you really just try to compare the emperor to saddam? kek

the emperor's psychic power was the only think stopping demons from just going apeshit, remember the grey knights/knights errant wouldnt exist at all.

best case scenario for the loyalists if the traitors took terra right away, would probably be girlyman being the douche that he is and just saying fuck it defend imperium secundus at all costs.

>>46249008

Cause he's still there doing it

>>46249008
big E on the throne isnt really dead, his body is dead but his psychic powers are still the only thing keeping the demons away, also grey knights.

>>46248992
If that's true then why didn't the traitors make a beeline straight to Terra after isstvan V?

>>46248932
But as >>46248878 says, the dropsite massacre would've happened at Terra. And you can't use the Iraq war as a comparison - this was a civil war. Instead of a puppet, the new leader would've been someone everybody knew about, and a lot of people still loved Horus at the time. Mars was on the same side, too.

The problem in Iraq was that we kicked everyone out of their administrative positions and replaced them with sycophantic idiots, including at the top. And we let mobs go nuts looting - we never recovered control from that moment. Horus would keep control, and could just keep the bureaucrats in place and change them out slowly, and everything would be fine.

>>46248808
>implying horus slew the emperor
>implying that dorn didnt find a barely alive sangy, emperor, and horus and then kill them all himself so that he could become the shadow emperor whos ruled the imperium for 10k years
hehehe

>>46249034
It wouldn't have been a surprise attack. He'd probably have been stopped in fleet battles.

File: Endryd_Haar.jpg (16KB, 250x237px) Image search: [Google]

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Haar is a cool guy

>>46249124
The longer they wait the more time dorn has to fortify terra

>>46249071
>set himself up as shadow emperor
>gets himself killed by random chaos fags
topkek

>>46249197
>he thinks lord autist is dead
Kek

>>46249197
nah he faked his death, thats why they only found his hand.
>kill competition
>always been favored by the custodes
>pretend to go along with girlyman, after already sowing distrust against girlyman.
>fake death
>rule as shadow emperor
its the kind of masterful powermove that only a cunning autist could execute..

>>46238865
If the Castellax fit, you're fine.

Otherwise, you need more flamers for area denial.

But what do I know?
I haven't played since Q1 2015 ;_;

>>46249229
He is

>>46249246
>thats why they only found his hand.
Pretty sure they also found the rest of him since it's encased in amber on the phalanx

>>46249291
Old fluff, now they only found his hand

>>46249155
yeah but they had to do something about the smurfs before moving to terra at that point, since the smurfs and fists wouldve probably been able to beat them/hold them off in a siege, until the yiffs, dangles and bangles showed up.

the whole gank terra right off the bat thing wouldve worked, but it only works if they do it before the imperium can mobilize.

Would it be somehow possible to convert Kastelan to Castellax? Damn thing is too expensive.

>>46249319
Since when?

>>46249383
5th or 6th edition

>>46249325
Ruinstirm was created two years into the heresy, he's got five more to charge straight

>>46249319
Nah, that's just the Imperial Fists being too ashamed to admit that a certain Necron Overlord stole everything but the hand.

>>46249383
its been a long time.

basically theres a 100% chance that dorn is a shadow emperor hanging out with the custodes at terra, the question at this point is just how ruthless he was to get there.

thats why his 'death' is so suspicious 'he was just attacked by regular dudes and they only found his hand', is pretty blatantly a faked death on his part. its also why he has the last wall protocol and only the fists get to recruit from terra. dorns the shadow emperor

>>46249478
>Facts: good.
>Conjecture: bit of a leap.
My money is on a currently undeveloped plot-point before M41.
Or girlyman stasis MkII.