Character Commissions

>>44315172
>far right
would fuck

>>44315172
for just a pencil and pen, like $10. With color, maybe $20

>>44315185
Holy fuck dude control yourself.

>>44315172
$10/character for something really nice

>>44315172
I'd pay perhaps $50+ for something like that.

>>44315172
20 bucks?

Why are they all POCs?

>>44315172
>to the right of the green haired one
Would fuck

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Character portraits won't make you money, OP. You need to try to catch bigger fish. Book illustrations, for example. Comics. RPGs are a very low-cost way to spend one's time, and the average character does not last very long (either due to character death or, more often, due to the player leaving the game). You'd have better luck trying to pander your portfolio to the people who publish games than the people who play them.

>>44315469
Doesnt the real money come from furry commissions?
Dirty sweaty neetbucks...

>my wife once did this

>she didn't take the opportunity to sell more commissions

>>44315481

I assume OP has more dignity than that.

>>44315440
uh, two of them are white?

>>44315440
Because POC people play tabletop too?

>>44315440

>all

Three out of five is not "all".

>>44315172

That is pretty high quality, but I would ask Deviantart or some artist forum about this 4chan will only give you troll answers

I've done character doodles for my own games, but I don't have the time to take illustration commissions while I'm doing map commissions.

Also, most people's characters are fucking dumb and I just don't like drawing them.

>TFW one time I made a doodle for a guy who told me he's playing a Half-Orc
>I colored it and he gave me shit because he didn't tell me his Orc had grey skin.
>So I made the skin really, really washed out, practically-grey with a tinge of green so it looked nice.
>He threw an even bigger fit because it wasn't literally completely desaturated B&W grey.
>I told him to fuck off.

>>44315172

If it was a really long running campaign I might splurge up to 50 as a gift for my friends. but thats gonna be rare for me.

>>44315172
I'd pay $20 for a character full art similar to stuff on that/(your?) tumblr

If that is enough, reply plz

>>44315469
>>44315559
This is more from curiosity about people's budgets and what they think art is worth.

>>44315392
I'm perfectly controlled dude.

>>44315597
By and large, most people don't value art at all, especially when they have no concept of how much work goes into it.

Which is why you'll see people discussing trying to get professional illustrations for shit like "$10 per character".

Unless they have some ridiculous personal lust for the character (see porn commissions), most people don't actually understand artist prices.

If I had a dime for every time someone said "lol how can u charge $50 and hour to design a simple logo?", I could retire.

>>44315590

I think it might be a nice memorial for a long-running campaign for when it comes to an end. Kind of like a yearbook photo, you know?

>>44315597

Ah.

In that case, it depends. I've paid two hundred dollars for a painting, but that was using traditional media so I can hang it on a wall. People's budgets are not always directly related to what they are willing to spend on one thing or another. I understand that art takes skill and time, and I would feel I am insulting the artist if I offered less than fifty dollars for any piece of art (except maybe a simple sketch). However, that does not mean I would be willing to pay fifty dollars for character art - because even though I can afford it, a single piece of character art is not very useful to me and I would be better of ripping something from a Google search.

The answers given here are honest, even though they are obscenely low. $20 is approximately what a character drawing is worth to a player, even if he can pay more.

>>44315726

Two hundred dollaws is still pretty low for a painting, man.

>>44315688
Yeah, I really would be better at giving a reasonable offer as to what I would pay given a certain level of quality if I knew what it actually took to make one of those images.

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I would possibly pay money for a character in a game myself, but usually I just ask a drawthread instead, I don't ask for high quality and free drawings from a sketch artist is more then enough for me usually.

As for paying; I would pay if the art is good but it doesn't have to be perfect. Most importantly though I would need to know for a fact the game would last a long time and would have to be a character I am deeply invested and interested in, which I can only say has happened once or twice in the 4+ years I've been in this hobby.

Pic related is about the limit of my own personal creative ability, this being a Gnoll cleric of mine with a warhammer, so I am glad for anything better.

>>44315172
Disclaimer, I have no points in Appraise:Art.

But something that good? I'd see if I could get my players to pitch in at least $5 each and then I'd be willing to throw in another $40-50 myself. Hang that shit on a wall.

I already have a tradition that I like to buy my players special minis for longer running games.

>>44315839

Yeah, I never really have been in a game longer than a few months so art more advanced that some basic sketching hasn't been necessary. I remember I did a pencil portrait for my last CoC character and as a joke gave him deeper and deeper bags under his eyes as he lost more and more SAN. But beyond that it wasn't anything great and it's not like I would have wanted to fork out top dollar for a finely detailed rendering of the guy.

>>44315440

> takes issue with brown people appearing in a picture
> later today will complain about the sensitivity of SJWs

>>44315172
It really depends on the artist's other work, the size of the piece, the background/level of detail, and the medium. I would be very pleased to receive the OP pic and would pay up to $100 for it... if I had the money.

>>44315688
>>44315814

Here's a question; are there no artists out there who specialize in doing really cheap quick and dirty sketches for low costs?

Like you aren't going to get the full color picture with all the trimmings and lighting and stuff, but just something that looks decent enough and isn't stupidly expensive. I could honestly see a market for that.

>>44315440
>against character diversity
>in a world of elves and dwarves and dragons

People like you will always baffle me. I suppose all fantasy should only ever draw its inspiration from european culture, so as not to step out of your comfort zone?

You realize that you're living in a world full of crazy folklore and mythological beasts and heroes and that some, even most of them, come from cultures that aren't white, right?

>20 bucks
Oh, you're one of those people.

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>>44315172

I think the most I've spent on one portrait is around $60-80.

>>44315946
>are there no artists out there who specialize in doing really cheap quick and dirty sketches for low costs?

I'm sure there are. Why are you asking me? I don't know any, nor do I really care about them that much.

Personally I think that trying to whip around single dollar bills for a custom piece of artwork is kind of a dick thing to do.

>>44315172
For a single character, expecting only line + color with no shading or backgrounds, probably $20.

Something like that of a full party I'd appraise at like $100 or so, that's more of a "the entire group is pitching in and we're going to get large prints made for each of us" congratulatory thing.

>>44315172
Is that your art?
Honestly, I've got no idea how much work goes into this kind of stuff. For something of that quality, assuming I got to micromanage the details to my satisfaction, I'd say maybe $25.

>>44315172
You could charge 50 to 100 dollars for something like this

>>44315318
>>44315392
>>44315440
>>44315594

Fucking hell you people have no idea

There are hours and hours of work in that pic - you think any of you would work for goddamn $10/hour let alone "$10 for one job"

And that's ignoring the value just in the artists skill holy hell

>>44315172
Nothing unless it was some hier tier stuff or a character I seriously cared deeply about. Mainly because I have hard time justifying spending any money on something I'll merely look at and is not functional in any way. All free dosh I have goes to eating fancier food when able to, a bigger, better, meaner, faster, stronger gaming machine, or Warhammer 40k.

>>44315172
For something like that, a piece which probably took more than 10 hours start to finish, I'd say 80 bucks. When you break that down, that is still minimum wage. Of course nobody actually charges hourly, so this piece was probably 20 bucks a character.

When it comes down to it, there is definitely a market for character commisions. One drawfag to another (I'm assuming) , I've seen some prominent artists on shit tier autist sites like deivantart sell their stuff for 20 bucks for linework, 15-25 for cell shading, and 25-35 for actual digital painting like pic-related, but more rushed and incomplete.

I'd say solid prices would be:
-around 5-15 range for lines.
-20-25 for cell shading
-at least, MINIMUM 30 for pic related.
*Prices apply to each character
of course you could add extra price for extra work, like backgrounds, or higher resolution.
I think pic related looks like some professional level stuff, should definitely sell something of that quality at higher prices in relation to the longer time it takes to create.

>>44315172
One day I'd love to get someone to draw a picture of one of my characters, and would pay over $50 for one. The only problem is I'd have to describe my character in detail, and I'm really shitty at talking about in-depth features.

>all these people lowballing

For ops lvl of detail and the fact it's coloured this is 100 dollars easy

If you say $20 per character coloured, x5 = 100. Background is probably an extra 10 bucks too

>>44315726
Yep, I think it's because people are used to paying walmart prices for mass-produced goods instead of tailor-made goods.
Anything custom is going to snowball in price because you're paying for the skill and labor more than anything else.
Tailored pants for example will be much more expensive than anything you see at the mall. McDonald's can sell you a burger for $2 because they're selling thousands of them. Conversely, a personal chef is selling you his time and skills, not just a meal.
People think they're buying just a burger, hence the $10-20 offers. No, they're paying the chef for his time.

>>44315814
An entry level artist at a professional studio (Riot, Naughty Dog, etc) should ideally be charging $50+/hour freelance (less if full time).
Someone like in the OP image should be charging at least 35/hr.
If you commission a painting from them that takes 10 hours (including research, preliminary sketches, etc, everything) it'd be $350. And there's a good chance it'd take even longer.
Most people would call you crazy for charging that much, which is why most pro artists don't bother with small clients and go straight to the studios that are willing to pay for good art
Granted, most deviantart level artists charge nowhere near $50/hr. That's a professional's rate.

>>44316065
>you think any of you would work for goddamn $10/hour

To be fair, most people work for less then that.

>>44316098
I seriously just can't conceive how that's worth $100 unless everybody agreed to pay for their character, making it more like $20 per person. Art just doesn't have a -function-, I compare it buying things for entertainment, and at most I might look at a picture for minutes at a time. A movie meanwhile which I can get for $20 or less will entertain me for hours, and a videogame or RPG for hundreds of hours.

>>44316123
>tfw work for 11.30 an hr and feel extremely privilidged to have that extra buck 30

Fucking hospitality industry

>>44316144

You're paying to have someone else take an image out of your imagination and put it out into the physical world where other people can freely view it instead of just having you describe it to them. For some people that is worth quite a bit.

>>44316123
I did dishwashing for 8.50/hr before tips, it ended up coming out to something like 11.00 per hour.
We got a lot of tips.

>>44315172
$30-40 for individual portraits of that quality, maybe $80-100 for a group shot like that. It's something I've considered doing on occasion, though more for portraits of NPCs in the games I run than regular characters I'd play.

>>44316144
100 is at the extreme low end, artist could probably charge uo to 300. Artwork is extremely time consuming and its inherent value is subjective in the viewer. If I could get that on a nice glossy blown up to a decent size, I'd pay 100 for it easy.

>>44316144

False comparisons. You're not the only one enjoying that movie; they can charge $20 for that because far more people are ALSO giving them that money.

Imagine if you said "I want an action movie to be made just for me" and expected to get it made for the same price as a movie ticket. That's what's happening here. It's not that this "costs more" so much as because the audience / customer base is so much smaller, you're seeing much more of the real cost it takes to produce artistic work.

Either way, it costs the same; you're just complaining because the cost is all falling on you.

>>44315440
>TRIGGERED

>>44315440

Look at this SJW, angry that there aren't enough of his favourite ethnic minority.

>>44315172
I just noticed the goat has a little robo leg, shouldn't that be haram for the druid?

>>44316144
>seriously just can't conceive how that's worth $100 unless everybody agreed to pay for their character

The consent of the people who created the characters for the D&D game doesn't factor into the price of the picture, you dunce. The picture is still the same, the artist is still drawing the same thing regardless of their consent. SOMEONE commissioned it, they're still paying for the FULL PICTURE.

>Art just doesn't have a -function-
You're on a FUCKING IMAGEBOARD. The fact that this site exists at all is proof that art has a purpose. Illustrations, logos, web designs, photographs, they all serve a function in society called GIVING YOU SOMETHING TO LOOK AT.

>I compare it buying things for entertainment
That's because you're an idiot who can't into analogies.

Have you ever considered how much it might cost to, you know, have a movie made SPECIFICALLY FOR YOU?

>>44315172
>>44315688
>>44315726
It's less people don't appreciate art is just simply that's how far they willing to pay. Most people simply aren't wealthy patron types who are just don't like the idea of putting substantial money.

>44315946
Those street artist who do caricature would be an example.

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>>44315440

>PoC

Why did a term steeped in racist terminology somehow become the politically correct thing to use in reference to non-white ethnic groups?

>>44316104
>>44316229

With digital art bought over the internet, I am not even paying for Walmart mass-produced goods. I am paying for information.

Fact is, I (like many other Americans) pirate hundreds of gigabytes of stuff every year. I pirate movies, software, music, literature, games, educational materials, and, yes, art. I am not used to paying ANYTHING for 99% of my own lifestyle, and that last 1% is just food. (Okay, the house payments take up more than that, but I'm exaggerating a bit here.

I understand that art takes time, and it is custom-made, and it takes training and practice to make it, etc. etc. but the fact is, things have an *absolute* value, which is based not on how much it costs for you to make it but how much enjoyment I receive from it, compared to other things I could be spending my money on. At some point, it is no longer worth it to sell art because the people who might buy it are better off not buying it and just changing their character description to match existing art.

>>44316027
>5 (6) full characters
>full character portrait, head to toe
>excellent detail
>full color
>posing with weapons
>background

50 dollars is right out of the fucking question, anon. This is at the very fucking least $100, and if that's the case the artist was jipped. This is great work, and probably took the better part of a week of constant work to complete. I would personally estimate this at being around $160-$200.

You're not just paying for time spent, you're paying for skill and effort. Commission pay =/= a salary or wage, nor should it.

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>>44315172
I got mine drawn for free by a /tg/ drawfag.

>>44316308
>It's less people don't appreciate art
I never said people don't appreciate it. I said they don't -value- it. Very different thing.

When you have no connection to the process of illustrating, and your only concept of artwork is "I need a picture of an Orc. I can type "Orc" into Google and get 5 million pictures of Orcs.", then you have no concept of how or why each of those pictures exist. Someone had to want that picture to exist enough to pay for it to exist. You don't have any connection to that, because it never mattered to you.

>Most people simply aren't wealthy patron types who are just don't like the idea of putting substantial money.
Most people spend substantial amounts of money on shit they care about, while dismissing the idea of paying "so much money" for things they don't care about.

>>44315172

OP, are you the artist for this piece? Because if so, I bet my group would be willing to pitch in to commission a group image (several members have brought it up in the past, but none of us know good artists).

>>44316308
Also people just aren't used to the idea of paying for art. I have a friend who balks at paying for vidya because steam sales and pirating has dropped the value of games in his head.
But a good meal with friends? He'll happily drop $20-30.
Art is low on the ladder of value judgment for most people.

>>44315185
>Picking the self-cutting emo bitch
>Ignoring the elf Qt

>>44316325

>things have an absolute value
>which is based not on how much it costs to make
>but how much I enjoy it

Not how value and pricing works, production costs are absolutely a factor. Unless you mean YOU just don't factor in production costs, in which case you're simply an idiot. Things do have an absolute value; you as an individual just are not very good at gauging what that is, from reading your posts.

>At some point it is no long worth it to sell art because the people who might buy it are better off changing their character

Flawed premise; the people who were going to do that would have done it before it got to the point of commissioning art for them.

>>44316380
It drives my parents bannanas I'll drop 2000 dollarydoos on a PC while they shop for 25-45 thousand dollar cars because father gets bored with his every few years and wants to trade in for something new. Meanwhile I drive a hand me down that's old enough to have its own liscence because all I want is a box with wheels and an engine

>>44316070
see:
>>44316065

>>44316320
It was popularized by racial justice activists in the late 1970s.

Keep in mind that calling someone "black" used to be taboo and "negro" was common, a situation that is more or less completely reversed today. Language doesn't always make sense.

>>44316389
No, but my art is on a similar level. Fair warning, I'd also charge much more than the offers in this thread.

>>44316473

Do you have any examples of your art on hand?

I would expect as much, though split five ways it would probably be a bit more tenable. I'd have to check with them first, of course.

>>44316412

I am curious, which posts (apart from the one you are replying to, of course) do you think are mine?

>>44316359
I like that. See, this is lineart of a full character, not shaded or colored. The detail of the clothing is done with pre-made patterns added into a new layer.

This, to me, is worth around $25, based purely on the level of skill and the time I estimate it took to create.

The thing about character art and illustration is that it's an artisan craft. You can get a million pictures of a frog in a coat on google, but none of them are YOUR frog in a coat. For those who want their own character, as it appears in their imagination, in detail on a page, you need to be willing to pay.

These people aren't making you a goddamn sandwich that is exactly like every sandwich everyone else is eating. They're not selling you a ticket to a film that everyone has already seen. They're making your child's 1st birthday cake. They're designing you a suit. They're forging you a unique decorative knife.

Commission Art isn't a fucking production job. It's not a fucking entertainment job. It's not even really a trade. It's custom, artisan work, and people need to stop treating it like they're ordering a fucking big mac from mcdonalds.

>>44316473
You have every right to do so, if you're claim in genuine. If I might ask, what would you charge, and would you post an example of what your work can look like? I'm honestly curious.

Might have a single character I'd like done.

>>44316229
Except I would never pay for a videogame, an RPG, or a movie on my lonesome, even if I had a massive disposable income. I simply couldn't justify the waste of it even if it was copying and pasting something from my imagination. Not to mention that again, a piece of art will still have less entertainment value compared to a movie or videogame you commissioned with some boatload of money.

The only way I'd commission art if is I was a millionaire and paying for some high-end Vincent Van Gogh chap to spruce up the appearance of my living space or go even higher to have a sculptor fashion my mansion into a medieval estate with marble Italian statues- and that shit is never happening in reality.

>>44316299
>You're on a FUCKING IMAGEBOARD. The fact that this site exists at all is proof that art has a purpose. Illustrations, logos, web designs, photographs, they all serve a function in society called GIVING YOU SOMETHING TO LOOK AT.

Looking at stuff is nice, but the entertainment it provides is incredibly minor unless it happens to be pornography.

>Have you ever considered how much it might cost to, you know, have a movie made SPECIFICALLY FOR YOU?

Yes, and I would never spend such money on such a wasteful product when there's some other sucker to do it for me. But my analogy to begin with was function for -me-. The entertainment value extracted from art seems positively wasteful compared to other things in life. It would feel like feeding my dollaroos into a blender. I look at my money like an equation, regarding the amount of minutes of joy that can be extracted from it. That same hundred bucks could be used to take a pretty girl out to dinner (and roll for seduction), buy discounted games from steam, upgrade my gaming machine, a daycation, buy more 40k shit for my endless army building, or hell even buy a computer program to allow me to design RPG characters myself.

it just doesn't feel economical.

>>44315172
probably around 75 bucks for that level of quality, but only 40-50 if it was that style. not a huge fan of the way they do skin tones and clothing

>>44316437
I am well aware. The problem is that the end product does not produce enough joy for a long enough time to be viewed as an acceptable expenditure. In order to pay for a comish at my current income, I'd have to care so much about that RPG character I'd be in need of seeing a shrink.

>>44316551
>That same hundred bucks could be used to take a pretty girl out to dinner (and roll for seduction), buy discounted games from steam, upgrade my gaming machine, a daycation, buy more 40k shit for my endless army building, or hell even buy a computer program to allow me to design RPG characters myself.

And you don't for a single second see how all of these serve literally the exact same purpose as buying a piece of artwork? That purpose being "fulfilling the desire of the person spending the money to enjoy <insert thing they have placed value on here>?"

Like, just because YOU don't value it doesn't mean it has NO VALUE AT ALL?

Because someone could just as easily look at you spending money on Warhammer shit or a crappy video game and call you a retard for wasting your money on that junk? And you'd cry and throw a tantrum because they aren't entertained by the same things you are?

Why don't you complain about not being able to get Warhammer stuff for free? I mean, you place value on that because you can't just walk into a store and steal it, so you're forced to consider it's value.

>>44316518
>though split five ways it would probably be a bit more tenable
Well that basically means you're each paying for your own character, which will take me time to design, draw, and paint. At my rates that'd be anywhere from 350-600 a character depending on what you want.
Not 350 total, 350-600 each. It's a lot for individuals but not for established studios, which is why we generally just go to studios for employment.

>>44316528
Same as above. I'm not going to post any of my work here but if those rates are actually agreeable then I can show you through email or something.

>>44315172
Single character, full color, full body portrait at this level of detail, with the minimalist landscape background? Probably around $65, and that price is only because a close friend of mine offers discounts to friends and family. From a more talented or renowned artist than him, $100, minimum. For a full party image like OP's, I'd be willing to shell out at least $240, though I'm neither in the market for such an image, nor do I expect to be until my group has an adventure worth immortalizing.

>>44316651
>At my rates that'd be anywhere from 350-600 a character depending on what you want.
>Not 350 total, 350-600 each.

I'm only gonna say you're probably a big bitch and not even including revisions in that price.

>>44316651
Too rich for my blood to spend on a hobby, but it's pretty clear you do this professionally, so I've no right to complain.

>>44316651

Ah. Yeah, never mind then.

>>44316380
>When you have no connection to the process of illustrating, and your only concept of artwork is "I need a picture of an Orc. I can type "Orc" into Google and get 5 million pictures of Orcs.", then you have no concept of how or why each of those pictures exist. Someone had to want that picture to exist enough to pay for it to exist. You don't have any connection to that, because it never mattered to you.

I get what you're saying, I really do. But it's not something you want to take personally. Not feeling that you're valued professionally isn't unique to the artist. Take it from a psych nurse.

>>44316651
>350-600 a character
yeah, no dude. It'd take a half-decent artist about 30-35 hours to do a full ensemble piece like the OP, as long as they're actually given character descriptions and aren't just winging it. so you're looking at, maximum, about 650 bucks for the whole thing. And frankly, you aren't going to get that kind of money from most gaming groups. We don't eat chips and drink soda just because we like the taste

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>>44315172
Those bitches got some manface OP.

>>44316744
>psych nurse
You are doing work that matters. Godspeed, anon.

>>44316615
>And you don't for a single second see how all of these serve literally the exact same purpose as buying a piece of artwork? That purpose being "fulfilling the desire of the person spending the money to enjoy <insert thing they have placed value on here>?"

Only if they have a fuckload of cash or they simply don't look at things like an objective ratio of joy related to cash spent. The only way I'm able to even comprehend such an idea is that either it was part of an expendable income or they honestly get over a hundred and twenty minutes of enjoyment from a $100 digital painting. It just looks and feels like a waste of money that could have been spent on more things or a superior thing. How much joy do YOU get from a commissioned painting?

>Like, just because YOU don't value it doesn't mean it has NO VALUE AT ALL?

As far as I can comprehend it.

>
Because someone could just as easily look at you spending money on Warhammer shit or a crappy video game and call you a retard for wasting your money on that junk? And you'd cry and throw a tantrum because they aren't entertained by the same things you are?

No I wouldn't give a fuck about them lol. I'd go do something I enjoy, and reap the benefit of the experience.

>
Why don't you complain about not being able to get Warhammer stuff for free? I mean, you place value on that because you can't just walk into a store and steal it, so you're forced to consider it's value.

It has a value because it's not singular to me. A piece of art is a nice looking thing I'll look at for what, a couple hours total in my entire life, stretching it? For that same price I could get a squad or two of something, and experience the several hours joy of assembly, painting, fielding, showing off, and writing the fluff for all the individuals. It would certainly be nice to get it for free, but unfortunately robbery is both illegal and highly risky.

>>44316651
>six hundred dollary doos a character

I don't think you should have bothered checking people's budgets, then. You know full well that no-one is every going to pay that just for RPG character art.

All respect to you and your work, of course. Good luck.

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>>44316065
>Fucking hell you people have no idea
I'm this faggot >>44315594

To be fair, I said $20 for a character. For OP's image that comes out to $100, maybe more if you count the goat

I know a full portrait for a single character is worth more than $20 if it's of OP's image quality, but the fact of the matter is that campaigns don't always last a long time, and sometimes characters don't even last as long as the campaign

If I had a solid 6 month+ game going, and it showed promise of going for another 6month-1 year, and I really liked my character and had him very well fleshed out and I got the artist to vibe on the idea, I could easily consider paying $50 for a single full portrait of my character

Standard situation of a 2 month, half-completed campaign that loses steam and simply wilts as soon as it, blooming into a new, separate campaign with a probably different DM?

That's worth $20, because all it's going to do is get passed around the table one time, and may not even be enough to replace the individual player's pre-formed mental image of the character

>>44316755
>Not having the budget for fancy snacks
>Not just spending the fancy budget on more soda and chips
>Not legitimately enjoying Mtn. Dew and Cheetos more than cognac and creme brulee

I tend to pay around $120 for my commissions these days. I used to pay around $30, but then I actually got a real job that paid me real money, and there's no reason not to pass that on.

>>44316744
>Psych nurse.

As a clinically depressed person, you the wo/man anon.

>>44316814
>legitimately enjoying Mtn. Dew

Dude, Dew is literally the most disgusting soft drink on the market. Even Pepsi tastes better.

>>44316814
>legitimately enjoying Mtn. Dew and Cheetos
what the hell is wrong with you?

>>44316814

I'll be honest with you, I DO like Mountain Dew more than Cognac. Cognac tastes awful.

Not creme brulee though, but creme bruleee is not expensive. Its just custard with hard caramel on top.

>>44316848
>Drinking soda.

I hope you have dental care.

>>44316848
>>44316871

Game Fuel is good though.

>>44316871
>Born into a poor family
>Made it as a successful accountant
>same taste in snacks since age 9

>>44316900
You disgust me. Voltage or death.

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Conversely, what's the best piece of character art you've managed to get for free (from draw threads or elsewhere)?

Picture related for me.

>>44316925
>3000x4244
>Lower Res

U wot m8?

>>44316949

The original was pretty big.

>>44316925
>Pic related
>for free

Fucking how?

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>>44316925

I got a couple of really good ones, though I'm not sure what I consider 'best'. This one is probably the best though.

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>>44316925

>>44316737
>>44316725
Like I said, I only started this thread out of curiosity on what most people think. I'd be extremely surprised if someone here actually agreed to my (lowballed) rates
>>44316810
No one here, but I've met professionals (lawyers, doctors, etc) who are willing because they understand the cost of labor (lawyers bill by the hour too) and have the money. Also, fetishists.
Just gotta find the right audience

>>44316755
>about 30-35 hours to do
>you're looking at, maximum, about 650 bucks
You assume my hourly rate is $20. $20/hr isn't worth my time.
>you aren't going to get that kind of money from most gaming groups
That was never the point of this thread

>>44316974

Some artist on Deviantart was literally just saying "I need the practice, I'll do some character requests with simple backgrounds" and I managed to nab a spot on the waiting list. I think this was around three to four years ago.

>>44317015

>Also, fetishists.

furry_paying_over_$1000_to_insert_neon-colored_characters_into_artist-provided_template.jpg

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>>44316925
Bwahaha

I'm spoiled by drawthreads, especially by Rotaken. I wish I had the money on hand to comish him, because holy hell would I love to keep him working on stuff. Even just random shit that pops into my head.

>>44317035
I've never done it, personally. From what I hear they're very willing to pay, polite, and on time with their payments.
For some freelancers that's the holy trinity.

>>44317018
Well aren't you just a lucky motherfucker.

>>44315528
Whites a color you racist fuck.

>>44317097
>That Which Lacks Hue
>a color

You don't understand how light OR pigments work, do you?

>>44317097
so what you're saying is they're all pocs? so there's no point in asking why they're all pocs?

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>>44317074
More of Rotaken's stuff for me. I really really wish I could pay the man. Shout-out if you want good shit, he's on deviantart. He especially likes 40k and Fallout.

>>44316847
>>44316767
Thanks.

Anyway for something as detailed as OP's picture I think something is in the three hundred dollar range isn't unreasonable at all when you think of how much time and effort must've gone into it.

If I ever got a chracter to commissioned I probably wouldn't looking for anything more than a $20-50 doodle. It's just not something I'd be interested in paying a lot of money for even if I'm sure it will look good.

>>44315172
Well that's a fairly good quality arting right there.

Personally I'd rate a single character at that level of art to be about $40-50.

That said, I wouldn't pay that. I'm simply not in the market and don't really WANT a picture of any such character. If I had a hardon for something I was playing and wanted it to come to life? Eh, sure. Maybe.

If a friend really liked his character or something, it'd be a pretty neat gift sort of thing. But spending $50 for such a thing just for myself? Nawwwww.

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>>44317179

>>44317162
RGB 255,255,255

>>44315172
Portrait-$30 must be colored.
Character+environment $40+5 for additional characters.
Group-$15 per character+10 for environment.
Uncolored sketch-$5
Colored+lined-$20
Environment-$15+5 if colored

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>>44316925
Well, this one was originally a free request, but I ended up paying him after he finished it.

It depends on the level of detail. If it's supremely colored, takes the person 10 hours to put together, you're looking at like 200 dollars, if it's something they put together in 2 or 3 hours with flat coloring but nice line work probably 40 dollars.

I haven't commissioned any art though for tabletop though. All my players are professional artists and give me freebies in exchange for fantastic GMing

>>44317268
#FFFFFF off.

Absolutely nothing.

I might consider it if it was really, really good, but I just can't see myself paying for a picture of a character I made.

but the fact that I'm a penny pincher doesn't stop the fact that I absolutely love people drawing my characters. I just really enjoy seeing somebody else's interpretation of something I put together.

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>>44316925
Drawthreads have been good to me. Grateful for all the drawfriends.

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>>44316065
Seriously. $10 an hour for quality work is cheap. $10 TOTAL for a multi-character piece? That's beyond ridiculous. People have been spoiled by Deviantart teenagers charging $5 for shit.

>>44317500
You gotta face the facts most people don't really value art all that much.

>>44316144
Because you're not just buying a picture, you're paying for an artist's time, energy, and skill to create a picture of your design from scratch specifically for you.

Movies are made to be consumed by an entire population of people. The movie company isn't charging $20 for their movie - they're charging $50,000,000 divided up over the entire movie going population.

>>44317531
That's why so many artists end up doing porn. People will pay out the ass to have their very specific fetishes drawn out.

>>44317584
>Paying out the ass
Depending on the fetish, that might be literal.

>>44315956
The issue isn't about brown people in fantasy, the issue is brown people living in not!Europe when they could as well live in their own versions of not!Africa

>>44315172
For something like that? $40-60 depending on if the artist has a reputation or not.
It would be a great Christmas present for my party.

>>44317584
Honestly paying for custom porn makes more sense to me than paying for a character portrait.
I wouldn't do either but if i had to do one it would be the custom porn.

>>44317637
>Wah, mommy, he got chocolate in my vanilla pudding

>>44317653
porque no los dos?

>>44315172
I would say about 10$/char seems reasonable to good if the quality is roughly similar to what OP presented.

I really need to now why there is a goat, and who made his mecha leg though.

>>44317605

I wonder what the going rate for "hyper scat" commissions is.

>>44317679
>chocolate in my vanilla pudding

That is fucking disgusting and if you honestly enjoy eating chocolate in vanilla pudding you are a horrible and incomplete human being.

>>44317689
Couldn't help you, only porn artist I'm friends with doesn't do scat or watersports pics.

>>44317689
Hyper scat porn sounds like scat porn where everyone's dressed like extras in Tron.

>>44317689
>Chewie, get the hoses, we're going into hyperscat.

>>44317680
Probably the dwarf ranger animal companion.

>>44317689
>>44317715
>hyper scat

So, undertale porn?

>>44317679
Again i wouldn't do either, but if someone gave me a ticket redeemable for one custom character portrait or one custom porn pic i would go with porn.
Because no matter how well I describe my character or how great an artist I commission it's still not gonna look exactly like what I imagine.
Whereas it's a lot easier to get something that i can fap to.

>>44315172
I don't commission character art because my appreciation of it doesn't scale with the value added by an artist's labor.

Seriously, I know what originals cost, even when they are made by newbies, I've had a mural done on a sick van and have had other paint work done on a truck by a chick doing it for love of craft, portfolio building, medium experience, and $10/hour for the process start to finish (and I had to get her friends to track her time for me because she was under reporting), but you start calling out $10-30 an hour for entry level art, and unless the artist is a speed freak, I start thinking about durable goods instead, when the subject is as transitory as an RPG character.

I mean, my van mural could have been a Benelli Ultralight, the shark mouth on my truck could have been a new BCM upper, etc.

>>44317531
You mean neckbeards on an imageboard don't really value the work that goes into a custom work of art all that much, which makes much more sense.

The REAL facts are that people do value art. That's why there's a whole fucking industry devoted to the commission and creation of unique pieces of artwork, from illustrations for a book cover, to the logo of a major corporation.

You're the one who has to face the facts: It's really only entitled little pretentious neckbeards like you that don't value art as a commodity. You're just throwing the word "value" around as an excuse for why you shouldn't have to pay. You just want it all handed to you for a pittance.

>>44317637
>Hurr Durr get dem Not!Arabs out of muh Not!Country
Wow. You're on a whole different level, aren't you?

I give you 2 chickens

>>44317773
Fuck that shit, I'll give you 1 white bull, OP.

>>44317637
Why can't not!muslims be in not!europe? Moors exist. Your vanilla pudding isn't pure vanilla. It never was.

>>44317786
>trading in literal sacred cows

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>>44317637
Go to bed Donald.

>>44317755
Your right i don't value art as a commodity as such i don't commission artwork.

>>44317788
>Moors exist

Moors conquered Spain. I'm talking about black people that got in not!Europe for no fucking reason.

They traveled over there from far away? Fine by me. They conquered a region of it? Fine by me. But have a fucking explanation for why there are blacks in an european setting.

>>44317822
And that's you. One person.

So don't go around making broad generalizations about "People" not valuing art, when said "People" are just you and your opinion.

>>44317755
>The REAL facts are that people do value art.
Then why there are so many complains from logo designers that their boss doesn't value their work or won't pay them the money they belive they deserve? I'm pretty sure thats a meme over /gd/.

Not to mention graphic designers aren't exactly known for being wealthy people.

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>>44317637

Adventurers are generally by definition not the norm. They are exemplary or unusual in some fashion compared to others of their race/gender/culture, in terms of attitude, skill set, competence, eccentricity, willingness to travel and not put down roots, or some combination thereof. Hence why most adventuring parties tend to be made up of wildly different kinds of people that would otherwise never mingle in everyday society, regardless of whether it's not!Europe or not!Africa.

>>44317875
Fair enough senpai.

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I would imagine $40 per character, including simple background, with that quality. So maybe ~200 total for OP, maybe more for goat, unless he's included as a bonus, maybe with the short one?
If I ever commissioned that quality of art, I'd be sure to get a print, too.
Pic is a kind drawfriend's free bust of one of my characters.

>>44317863
People value art but very rarely value artist.

I've only seen two sides in this discussion: Those heniously undervaluing quality work, and OP who thinks it's funny to taunt poor neckbeards with how much his pretend art is worth.

What's the reality? Considering how much high quality stuff is already out there, I very seriously doubt that all of it has cost that much to commission.

>>44317839
They're a boat-ride or a long walk away.

You're acting like and asian/african person had never been in europe before the fucking airplane was invented.

Yes, people of different ethnicity just existing in fantasy Not!Europe with not explanation is lazy, but you have LITERALLY no evidence that this is the case in OPs image. In fact, you have literally no evidence that the campaign even takes place in Not!Europe! It seems like the only people there who are caucasian are the Rogue and the Elf. Maybe THEY'RE the strangers to the setting. Did the thought ever cross your mind?

>>44317839
You're complaining about a single image with no context. The creator could have a thought out explanation but you're defaulting to no explanation.
Would it help if the brownskins were in chains? Then at least they'd obviously be POW's or slaves and you wouldn't be left complaining for an explanation.
Don't worry the blacks in not!africa will have white slaves too to spare you the white guilt.

I've tended to spend about $50 for full colour, full size art with a learning but good quality artist.

It can go up to $90 if you want a name-brand artist like Weremole.

>>44317919
Weren't moors semitic though? That means they fall under the "sorta white" category.

I concede with the rest of your post.

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>>44317931

>Weremole

Mah nigga.

>>44317938
I never posted anything about moors, actually. That was another anon.

>>44317916
The cost of commissioning art really depends on a lot of factors.
Some random guy on deivantart can be pretty cheap even if they're talented where somebody with a bit of a name for themselves can charge significantly more without being all that talented.

>>44317958
>They're a boat-ride or a long walk away.

I thought you were talking about the moors.

Sorry anon.

>>44317938
>Berbers, Arabs, and Moroccans
>sorta white

>>44315688

Yeah, some of the prices people charge for their work on DA are, frankly, absurdly low. I guess it benefits me when I want to splurge on some OC art, but I generally pay $50+ for comms now, and it breaks my heart to see some seriously talented people lowball their prices so much.

>>44315172
You know you are getting old when you look at the one on the far right and think 'she must be cold'

>>44317931

Clarification: That's for a single character, not for a group shot like OP.

>>44318050
Well the thing is unless they're already popular they have to be cheap because there are so many artist on DA willing to work so cheaply already.

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>>44317952

Yeah, I tossed him a trio of commissions after he did a character in a Drawthread for me.

I mean, seriously. This was 'Yeah, I'll just toss this out in a drawthread and HOLY HELL'

I guess he got inspired by the idea.

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>>44316359
So did I, by Pilgrim too.

I'd rather just pay for professional drawing lessons so I could do it myself.

Or just ask a friend to do it.

Or just practice drawing on my own, maybe look up some "proper" technique info online.

Honestly, if it's just a drawing for a game, why would you ever hire a professional artist?

>>44317919
>Elf
>Caucasian
What. A fair-skinned elf isn't any more "white" than a dark elf. Literally a different species, at least in the vast majority of settings.

Though that brings up a point. I wish more fantasy races had "races" like we do irl.

>>44317755

Artist here; keep shouting that; it won't make this stupid art degree increase in value any more.

When was the last time any modern artist was praised on the same level of Warthol? Hell, when was the last time any modern artist ever gets mentioned outside of our own niche circles. Worst bit, rather then trying to fix the problem, you just try and ignore it while some of us are literally starving here.

Unless you're one of those mates that managed to make the leap into success, in which case it sort of makes sense that you'd do everything possible to screw over potential rivals. In which case congradulations for upholding the status quo.

>>44316123

almost entirely in 'unskilled' positions, though.

>>44318259
You're confusing illustration with fine/studio art

>>44315172
About a hundred dollars? A piece like that should take at least a whole day's work to make, so I can't justify paying less than minimum wage for commissions.
If you claim art should be cheap, you're implying a learned skill that maybe 1 in 50 people have is less valuable than flipping burgers. Any time spent on a portrait I bought is time they can't have a "real job", so it's important that they charge enough to support themselves.

>>44318050
Price isn't just dependent on skill, but also network size/popularity. Ideally the sweet spot of your price point is where you attract enough people to have a full queue, but not so many people that you can't handle the workload. Most people are complete nobodies/don't have a network to speak of, so they push the prices as low as they can justify for themselves, hoping to attract more customers that way and build up a reputation that will allow them to eventually raise their prices.

>>44317531
It's not that people don't value art, it's that people don't understand how many work hours are put into a single piece. A painting of the quality in >>44315172 is *at least* a days work, and will cost you appropiately.

>>44319127
>but not so many people that you can't handle the workload
If that's the case that's just a sign that you're accepting too many commissions, and if you get that many commissions then that's also a sign that your skill surpasses your prices and that you probably should charge more than you currently are.

>>44317076
Speaking as someone that's drawn a whole bunch of pictures for someone that's at least really into dragons and Pokémon if he isn't actually a furry:

Can confirm.

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>>44317097
When will the transparent population get it's proper representation in the media? WHEN?!

>>44315172

In general? $5 maybe. But you are pretty decent, so $10.

>>44319427
Oh yeah, what I meant was that many artists increase the price if they have too many customers and decrease it if they don't have enough.

And since most of them don't have enough of a reach/reputation to attract a lot of customers, they keep it pretty low regardless of skill.

Which isn't necessarily the most effective way of improving your situation, but that's a different matter.

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>mfw artists think their skill is valuable

>>44317162
You do realise black isn't a colour either right?

>>44315172

>friend usually sketches out the party in his spare time

Exactly $0.

For a BW thing, maybe 40-50. For a full color, 80-100. For a group.

>>44315172
I painted commissions instead of getting a job or a student loan through 3 years of university, and I would probably charge something like 100burgerdollars for painting ONE of those characters to that level, and something like 70 for painting one of them half as well.

People are usually pretty cheap when it comes to paying for art that doesn't have tits or weird fetishes in it.

>>44315172

For some characters I wouldn't be too bothered, but for a full-party one like that.....probably thirty quid if I had money? Forty if I could easily afford it?

>>44315172
A sketch of a character without coloring or background is usually 5$, if I'm not mistaken.

>>44315172
I mostly just repost endlessly in draw threads until someone gives me a basic outline I can edit, I can edit something pretty well, I just can't draw from scratch

>>44319558
Lots of artists make a few grand a month on patreon

Even Shadman makes $2,404

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>>44319812

>Shadman makes 2,400 a month
>dobby only makes 100

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>>44319852
Does that guy even draw anything anymore? The guy who does the mostly shit Ronnie comics gets 770 a month atm

>>44315440
>>44315392
>$10
>$20
Are you crazy?

>>44319852

How much a month would it cost to kick him in the balls?

>>44319852
at least shadman seems like a man of morals judging from his work, whereas dobson is basically like a human cockroach

>>44319896

Ask him, he is probably pathetic enough that if you paid him enough he would let you.

>>44319558
It is valuable. Art is one of the biggest industry in the world.

We just usually call it media, or film, or TV, or vidya or whatever.

Art is incredibly valuable. That is part of why finding ways around the price of art is such a common thread online.

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>>44319812
>>44319852
>>44319896

> a guy who draws beast and guro makes more than dobson

>>44319852
>>44319812
i am totally ok with this.

>>44319924
beast yes

guro and scat oh god why

although his anatomy can be shitty sometimes he's can put out consistently fappable women who may or may not have dicks

>>44319924
Not to downplay Dobson's shittiness, but multiple people have already pointed out how much more lucrative smut commissions tend to be.

Which also overlaps with Dobson's - from what I can tell - pretty young audience. People that have dipped their toes into amateur art and stuff. If that's his audience, it's not exactly one with disposable income. Like how Pewdiepie for example can't shift significant sales despite his fuckhuge audience, simply because it's mostly kids without dispensable income.

Porn audience meanwhile tends to be teens and up, which usually have at least some money to throw at the screen.

>>44315172
depends on how long it took, but at least 60 bucks

>>44316925
Nice Guild Wars 2 character.

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>>44316395
>not the dwarven lady with robo-goat

Son, what are you doing.

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>>44316925
>>44316925
My brain cramped a little when I recognized this drawfriend's signature in the pic.

But hey it looks kickass.

>All these people ignoring supply and demand.
If the cost people are willing to pay doesn't reflect the time and effort put in, that's a sign that the market is imbalanced. Sorry, but character art isn't IMPORTANT ENOUGH to me for me to pay what it's actually worth. It isn't to most people! Yeah there's people that WOULD pay 50 dollars, but as long as there are so many people trying to make money off their art, they'll never need to.

>>44320306

...Then you don't get any art.

Why do the customers in this thread think they have any right to negotiate the price? The content creator decides the price, and if you refuse to pay it, then you simply don't get it. That's it. You're not making a stand or showing how 'alpha' you are, you're merely choosing not to pay for something. Why are you even bringing it up?

>>44320306
this.

look mom muh doodles 40$ an hour plz lol

isn't it bad enough the chose the most pathetic profession there is?

>>44320332
the customer probably thinks they have the right to negotiate the price when the thread is 'how much would you pay'

>>44320332
>...Then you don't get any art.

As already noted multiple times in this thread, there are plenty of people on DeviantArt who willingly accept prices this low. So we get the art, you just don't draw it because you are priced out of the market. Tough cookies.

>>44320332
No, the content creator decides the price, and if you refuse to pay it, you head over to one of the MILLION OTHER PEOPLE trying to make money off art, half of whom are absolutely underselling themselves enough for a price your average commissioner is actually willing to pay. Because the supply far outstrips the demand.

If supply didn't outstrip demand, you're absolutely right i wouldn't get any art, and I would shrug, and spend that money in places I actually thought i was getting my money's worth out of it.

>>44320380
No, they don't COMPLETELY get priced out of the market: they just sell entirely to the segment of the market that consists of ethical consumers who don't want to pay less than what the artist's time and effort would merit, and also want the art badly enough to to pay what the artist's time and effort Which... absolutely can't be more that 1/4 of the market, and honestly I'd be surprised if it's even close to that.

>>44320413
Okay, then you both get what you want.

Why so mad that people think your joke profession is a joke?

Back in my day, artists died poor and their work only became valuable after their death, and even then only if they somehow became famous.

Some things never change.

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>>44315172
That is entirely dependant on the quality of the artist and her time spent on the image. Let's take the party in OP into consideration.

US average wage is around 21 dollars 2015Q4 (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wages)

I'd price the quality of art for this artist pretty good, so let's make that hourly wage 30 dollars.

I am not really experienced in how long these take, however, she needed
-character concepts
-sketch out poses
-figure out, based on concept, the colour scheme and clothing

So for around 10 hours, I would pay her 300 US dollars for her work. 15 hours, 450USD. If I were to request exclusivity, say, for a publication or game of mine, double that. Less if she is working on contract for a larger number of art commissions, as the stable income the artist receives from such contracts outweigh the need to monetize on them hard.

I would also go for artists living in Eastern Europe, as they tend to ask less and work more than western artists.

Take into consideration that I am not poor and have money and income 3 times the average wage. So money is not an issue to me. I also know business enough not to think anyone would work for pennies.

>>44320419
>Okay, then you both get what you want.
Well. because of the glutted market they're losing out on the people who WOULD be willing to pay that price because of how badly they want the art, but don't care about exploiting the artist. Which is... probably quite significant.

>>44320441
Finally manage to recreate the patronage system, but now THE MASSES have access to it! In my day if you wanted extremely specific fetish porn you had to be rich and then keep an artist around who solely produced it!

I work $14/h hours. I would pay $250 for a sketch like what was above. I understand that I'm still undershooting it. I know one artist who would cost $250 for a character portrait. (His work it worth it, though)

>>44320442

>US wages an hour is about 21 dollars

Stop.

You are wrong.

>>44320475
I provided citation, so I will disregard your nonconstructive comment.

>>44315172
$20
But seriously, taking the average of this thread let's say $70. Tht's how much it is worth. No amount of whining or complaining about your time or "skill" will make it worth more than what people are willing to pay for it.
The buyer always sets the price, that's just how it works. Don't think it's worth your time? Then don't do it. It's that fucking simple.

>>44320446
they're willing to work at that price though.

probably because they realize that it's a hobby and that they're not contributing anything worthwhile.

>>44320492

>The average wage which includes fucking billionaires, movie stars, and obscenely wealthy businessmen means that some random shmuck makes 21 dollars an hour.

Not even fucking close. Most people make the minimum wage of their state at part time jobs. Shoot closer to 7.25 for an average person, not that ridiculous load you shitted out for everyone to see.

>>44320526
Painting and shit isn't an unskilled job. That's not to say some of these jobs (like waiter) don't have any skill in them, but you can start without a resume as long as your arm, a portfolio, or thousands of hours poured into training.

For a single character? About $20-30 is the sweet spot. $50ish if it meant something special or as a gift.

>>44320442
>average
>not median
>not mode
>not mean

Did you not finish grade school?

>>44315172
Not a single dime.

Does the artist have an education?

>>44320540

Yes, painting is not an unskilled job. Neither is yodeling, but you are not going to make much money yodeling. There's also those Buddhist sand sculptures, very difficult, very skill-intensive, and of course utterly worthless.

The price is not about how hard you worked. The price is about how much the customer is willing to pay, and about how much others who offer the same service charge. You chose to be an artist, and therefore, like 99% of artists, you need to go get a day job to pay the bills.

>>44315172
I did try to make some money out of my art, and well, OP, what you see here is what people are willing to pay. And it's not enough.
You can't make a living out of it, or you have to git gud, but really really gud and start having people lining up for commissions.
It took all the enjoyment I had out of my art because I was churning out stuff trying to make it, but I gave up. People are used to getting their stuff for free with Google, drawthreads, and sure they'll give you 10$ or 20$ off a character but that didn't factor in the time I spent or the expenses and I lost money, drive and motivation.

Then there is the porn but the market is saturated. Even furries. And the problem that people might link your porn folio to your other work (newsflash: it's not the vanilla people that are willing to pay loads to see their fetish drawn out).

I got another job and just try to draw a bit here and there in the weekends, but my drive took such a blow it's hard these days.

All these people arguing over $20-$80 dollars worth of art and meanwhile I bought an oil painting for $1000 early this year, and I work a low income job.

>>44316065
I work for $8 an hour.

But I'm an ESL teacher in SEA and I fucking love my job.

>>44318259
Degree doesn't mean anything else than you've had formal education and (with art degree specifically) got your fundamentals much quicker than those who are self taught. Education doesn't make master out of anyone, it just gives you the tools to do it yourself. Keep working, fellow artist.

>>44318280
You are now confused yourself. With artistic skills, be it formally acquired or self taught regardless of medium, you need to know your fundamentals. There are really no difference between illustrations and fine art. Unless you define that there is.

BUT there is a difference in focus. What artist likes to "draw" and what they tend to draw. If you'd ask a commission of personal portrait (as in a real portrait) from an illustrator who mostly draws from imagination it might take quite a long while to finish your commission, because they might not be as familiar from drawing from reference, hence taking more time and costing bit more.

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>>44320526
Look, I don't much care for the cost of living and issues the lower classes face. An artist learns and struggles for a lifetime to get better, much unlike your Average Joe who burger-flips for minimal wage for 30+ years and flips the shit out in such conversations.

Austrian average wage is 2.1k Euros a month. I make 6k. What do I care if you don't earn as much as you want to? Learn a trade and just

>git. gud.

All those 1000+ hours of Dota 2 will not benefit you in meaningful ways. Maybe you are responsible for your surroundings after the age of 30. Society can be blamed only for so long.

>>44320540
This.

>>44320574
>Yes, painting is not an unskilled job. Neither is yodeling, but you are not going to make much money yodeling. There's also those Buddhist sand sculptures, very difficult, very skill-intensive, and of course utterly worthless.

This is a logical fallacy and does not support your argument.

>The price is not about how hard you worked. The price is about how much the customer is willing to pay, and about how much others who offer the same service charge. You chose to be an artist, and therefore, like 99% of artists, you need to go get a day job to pay the bills.

Only the shitty ones do, with either no skill or no business plan.

Once again, you are way too indoctrinated to understand this. Learn a trade, practice, and you will be able to make the money you need to live comfortably.

>>44320620
Been there, done that, went over to IT because ESL is such a sysiphean work. Also, most students, in accord to other people, are shit and are not worth the time.

>>44320711
Tell that to the thousands of artists in the US struggling to get by simply because they aren't valuable.

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>>44320711
>git. gud.

Nice assuming. I'm not even one of those people, I make well above average for minimum wage.

The reason why I was angry is because that first post was simply stupid. You can't say the average income of a person in the US is anywhere close to 21 dollars, because it isn't.

>>44320711
>Look, I don't much care for the cost of living and issues the lower classes face
Well, that's who most of the people doing dnd character art commissions are, so maybe you should just drop out of this discussion?

>>44320711
>still using average

plz kid, learn math

Also, Norway here, stop being proud of your pathetic wage.

>>44320617
Yeah, but you'd hang up an oil painting on your wall. I mean I don't think I'd WANT to hang up a painting of my role-playing character on my wall, but even just receiving a physical item would add a shitload to how much I'd actually be willing to pay.

>>44320584
You are looking at the wrong place if you are searching for costumers on /tg/. There are of course people who have money and are interested in actually paying but comments here are free and mostly on top of that anonymous. So you never know if there are just few guys giving their "understanding" on what things are worth.

People usually try to rip you off. Especially those who don't understand value of artisan work OR they are your relatives. Many many times I've been asked to do a drawing for them or logo design for some small club/society and I give them the prices total single price or price by the hour. Just a tip. Total price is twice or 1.5 times the time it will take you to make the piece without getting stressed doing it.

People usually don't want to pay or asking because I'm a relative. I give them the price still. I VALUE my own TIME and MENTAL HEALTH that I'm currently making my living from commission works to companies. Actually. Companies pay for your work better than anyone because it usually isn't as big of an hit on their purse and it usually is easy work. Not very prestigious but you get paid for your art and you have TIME and MENTAL HEALTH to continue doing your own arts on the side, getting better etc. Don't burn your candle. For some reason they tend to teach that everywhere.

The path to improvement is hard work not insane work. Hard here means you have to keep doing it. Not the same every day: For yourself. Try to find the joy in it. Only insanity and sickness wait you if you burn your candle out. Don't go through the path of burnout and depression. It is MUCH MORE expensive and I went through that. It isn't worth it.

>>44320765
I work with traditional art, most people want to pay a bit more for the original, that's true.

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>>44315172
>3 blacks
>1 ginger
>1 goat
>only 1 white person

>>44320742
Average income in US is actually quite high if really are looking for the AVERAGE income. Not the income of Joe Average, different things.

>>44320811
Generally more useful to look at median.

>>44316065
$10/hour is A LOT for a job that takes no qualifications and a couple of years to get decent at. Even $5 is a lot. You're just entitled because you're an aaaaartist and people don't value aaaart. No shit, it's literally a bunch of colours that only serve the purpose of looking good for a few seconds when you stare at them.
While you do that shit, some people are doing much harder/tiring/dangerous/important jobs for the same pay. Go do whatever the fuck you want to earn your living, but don't fucking come here and whine about people not valuing art.

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>>44315172
A Friend of mine paid me 25 canukbucks for this. I don't think it's good enough to warrant 25 dollars, but he insisted.

Just do alternative art by commission for MtG cards. I know someone who spent $200 on a single card. TWO HUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS! The art wasn't even that great, some shitty Doc Oc drawing.

>>44320777
Thanks mate. The tip about the 1.5x sounds golden.

I agree the mental health got a huge blow, I'm crawling back out of it, but it's hard. The fact my current dead brain job leaves me exhausted and frustrated and procrastinating doesn't help. Haven't gotten out anything in months.

I guess I don't know how to get work from companies, plus working traditional means the shipping of the finished piece is an issue. I'm not into logo or something, just art for art. I used to get a kick out of /wst/ drawing just for fun, but now that's gone too, like my motivation. I hope I get back in the saddle one day. When I do, do you think it's worth getting some illustration or design degree done?

Sorry for epic blog.

>>44320817
So what you are saying is that rent, utilities, and food is cheaper for artists? Or all companies will take pity on artists and offer them discounts?

>>44320826
$200 for a piece of art isnt much at all

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>>44320736
Oh hogwash, really. I know plenty photographers and painters who think they are being fucked by not being valued by society, whereas they are rather average and not unique in any way whatsoever. Your work is not worth paying for. Practice more, and find extra income in the meantime. Maybe try switching to a different artform. I know someone who was shit at digital paining but found that she was great at pixel art. Does video games art now, for good monies. She also came to like what so does, and it allows her to focus on her painting practices.

>>44320742
You are not very good at semantology, it apprears. Average means average. If there is a huge social gap between the poor (90% making 10% of money) and the rich (10% making 90% of the money) then that is a social issue, and a big one in Europe (sans Switzerland) as well. Average still does mean average.

>>44320748
I think I will. All these poorfags justifying not paying for art because I'm poor are not worth the effort.

>>44320751
Alright, let's go with Median then.

>The monthly median gross salary of jobholders (all education levels, all ages) amounted 2010 in Switzerland to 5,979 CHF. Only 10.7% of the jobs are paid less than 4,000 CHF.

This means that in median you make 37 dollars (CHF is about that much as the USD) if you are an average Joe. So yeah, keep crying mich ein river about being poor in a shit country with no skills worth paying for whatsoever.

I'll be here valuing my artists and paying for music, books, art and all that.

The Richest Man in /tg/ out

>>44320552
Trust fund kids don't pay attention to school, silly.

>>44320835
When did I imply anything like that?

What I'm saying is that being an artist is a very comfortable job that takes little (relatively speaking) skill; about two-three years of practice will take someone from shit to getting praise from those not in the know.

Meanwhile there's people with jobs which are more useful/risky/take more qualifications working for the same pay.

>>44320894
>about two-three years
>2
>3
>years
I'm going to drink myself a cocktail of bleach and acid or throw it at the next client in the store, whatever comes first.

>>44320894
So you are saying that just because others have it worse, an artist is not allowed to have a fair pay they can live off of?

>>44320839
This wasn't art. This was a shitty cartoon rendition of Doc Oc from Spider-Man. I really wish I took a photo of it, it was gay as dicks. Then he had the gall to pay a friend of his (also a good friend of mine) $20 for an amazing piece that was a full card Charcoal render for a full set of 10 Swamps.

Fuck that guy

>>44320817
I think you might be from US where to make basic living you need two jobs or three. Unless you have a wealthy family.

In Finland, basic pay for unskilled work is around 8 euros/hour bottom (as a side job in bar AND they don't live on tips) but they usually have much higher than that. A job that requires a bit of skill and good working ethics pays from 14 to 18 euros/hours... The thing is. You don't have to take ANY JOB YOU CAN GET in order just to LIVE in case you get unemployed. You can live and prepare for your next job just on social security allowance and it really is secure in the sense that it is securing your basics, still... It isn't fun and you can't get much done with it but at least you are able to keep your home, food on the table and kids in school. Same goes in Norway, Sweden and Denmark. With their own small unique flair on the specifics how their system works.

But my point is here: If you value the time of someone else less than yours and the other person agrees, you get them working cheap.

If the artist is struggling or isn't doing well on the economic side because of any reason and you are planning on commissioning them you just try to rip them off and not pay what they are asking to make a living? Haggling is part of deal making of course but here you are taking an advantage of the fact that the other guy is trying to make a living. They are most likely stressed out because bills are piling up, need medication, food would be nice etc. And you still try to haggle lower. Especially it is nasty in the case where the work of the artist is something you LIKE.You are trying to burn out the artist you like? Why?

>>44315172
Nothing.

If I really had too itd be like 5 or 9 for a group picture. Im not paying big money fiäor something thatd only really last as little as a tabletop game.

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>>44315770
$200 paintingfag #2 reporting in. Also happened to stop by the artist's hometown in the midst of a cross country with Artorias' player to pick this shit up in person. Well worth, especially considering everyone in the party fucking died by the end, except grim grim.

I hate grim grim.

>>44320933
Yes. Why should they?

>>44320933

Oh he's allowed, he's just not likely to get it, and expect that others give it to him. When others offer him a low price for his work, they aren't cheating him, that's just how much it is worth.

>>44315172
A picture like that is worth right around one dollar to me.

Its nice to have but completely worthless.

>>44320989
>>44320993
Wow, I'm glad I don't have cynical assholes like you in my life.

>>44320989
Why do you think you deserve to get paid for whatever it is that you do?

>>44320993
>When others offer him a low price for his work, they aren't cheating him, that's just how much it is worth.
*to them.

Check this: When a company comes to me asking for a logo for their company, because they see my portfolio of work, and then they try and low-ball the price because they don't like my rates, what it tells me is that they WANT professional quality, but they don't want to PAY for that.

That doesn't mean my work is worth less. It means they can't afford it. They either need to lower their standards, or up their budget.

But please, do tell me how any chode with a pencil can do the same job.

>>44315688
Well art has no actual value and while idiots are big spenders thinking youd make it big with it are the same as music or english majors thinking theyll be instant hits.

Makes them coming over and blaming their poor proffesion choice much more annoying.

>>44321064
>Well art has no actual value
Define "actual value". How does anything have "actual value"? Things are as valuable as we deem them to be, and many works of art have been deemed to be extremely valuable, in as far as there are people willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money on it.

Not to mention that art is literally the way that almost everything we do as a society is communicated, and is involved in every single facet of your life, and if it had no value at all there would be no one getting paid to create all the shit you interact with on a daily basis.

>>44320835
you speak like being an artist is some god given vocation that you have to follow.

you choose to be an artist.

and it's a dumb fucking choice.

>>44320841
the average in countries with great wages like Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, is still much higher than the median income.

In example the average income in Norway used to sit at around 90-100k dollars, but the median was at around 70k

>>44316065
If the faggot there isnt some kind of slacker who dont focus on the picture right away or just really fucking tardy then I dont aee that image taking more than 3 hours, 5 if he was new with the colouring style and lets be honest, would you pay extra for an amatour wasting time?

>>44320841
if you only make 6k euro a month then you would be the poorest man out of any of my friends who are employed.

>>44321019
Beacuse without me people die.
Also, nice displacement of the burden of proof.

>>44321111
>then I dont aee that image taking more than 3 hours

Is dis nigga serious

Please don't pretend you know shit about painting, it's obvious you don't.

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Yes. Yes I have.

>>44320967
200$ for that trash? you were too much of a fucking beta to decline.

>>44321130
that is some tumblr shit

>>44321118
>Beacuse without me people die.
I like how you went out of your way to not mention your profession because you know that I can easily point out how a monkey could do it with some training.

>Also, nice displacement of the burden of proof.
Proof of what?

You made the claim that an artist should not be "allowed to have a fair pay they can live off of". This is a claim. I'm simply asking why you feel that you SHOULD.

>>44321096
No, I am saying that if you commission an artist for whatever reason, you have to pay him a fair wage. Maybe that sounds like communist talk to an american where they think it's completely fair with people having to work two to three full time jobs just to make ends meet.

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>>44321111
3 hours for op's picture? Tell me where you get your magic powers from because op's pic would easily take 10 and most likely more hours to complete. I know I'm pretty fucking slow but goddamn its been a while and I'm not exactly sure if I'm cutting off a lot of time due to remembering things wrong but this took well over 7 hours for me to finish

>>44321039

I, of course, have not seen your work, and thus will not tell you whether any chode with a pencil can do the same job. Maybe you are a brilliant, talented artist whose work is truly unappreciated because God of the devil cursed you to a life of undeserved obscurity, or maybe you are an idiot with delusions of grandeur. Odds are on the latter.

That, however, is not the point. The point is that when "they" (your potential clients) are low-balling your rates, it does not mean that they don't want to pay for it. They do want to pay for it, its just that what you think professional artists "deserve" to be paid does not jive with what they see as the market price for the work. You, of course, have every right to refuse their offer, but what you are doing wrong is thinking them beneath you, that they offered it so low just because they are stingy. They aren't stingy, they are rational. They can afford it, they just do cost/benefit analysis and compare the value of paying more for you to do the logo with the value of paying less for someone else to do the logo and using the balance on something more useful.

They price they will pay for your work is its falue to them, not its value to you.

>>44320835
... get a real job and enjoy your hoby on thevside?

>>44320834
I went and talked a lot with therapist. They don't usually have any advice (or they do have rather simple efficient ones for your faculties) but it helped to talk about things.

One thing that I do and it helps me a lot is to draw daily. Nothing fancy, nothing big but just remember to draw something. DAILY. Add your name and date next to it. Even on bad days like a death of a friend I did a small squiggly thing. It is bit sad to come back to that page occasionally but still... I drew on that day also. This is the advice I'd like to really give: Start drawing again and keep doing it. (Or paint if that is easier)

Working for (small) companies had me doing leg work quite a bit in the beginning. It was bit daunting task to be honest but people tend to appreciate an honest face, good manners and willingness to show your work with portfolio (I have a portfolio that I have with me with logos, illustrations etc. What I like to do and I know how to do. I do have pin-ups and few NSFW works there also. But it is surprising how people appreciate the skill needed to do those. Might also be the daring to add those. Can't be sure.) or just the sketchbook if I meet someone by the surprise (got work once by just by sitting next to someone on a plane).

I have to admit that I might have an advantage in this because I work both on traditional and digital. I enjoy most when I can draw illustrations with a story but usually I get to draw fruits for a local grocery market nearby, menu background for a pizzeria, posters, some X-mas cards etc.

On relating to education degrees... I have a Masters Degree of Science in Astrophysics. But the competition in that field got fierce in recent years so I changed what I do. I'm fully self taught. BUT if you CAN get a degree in illustration or design and you want it. Then yes. It is a degree and in school you learn much faster because there are instructors but you have to do your home work. (Running out of characters)

>>44321157
And I asked why should have a better pay than someone who's risking their life, own money, etc.
Also, I'm a doctor.

>>44321165
I'm from much more communist place than America, m8y.

I just think that the price should be handled up front, and that most artists have this absurd sense of entitlement.

>>44321207
>its just that what you think professional artists "deserve" to be paid does not jive with what they see as the market price for the work.
That's not how this game works.

The customer does not set the "market price", because this is not an auction business.

>You, of course, have every right to refuse their offer, but what you are doing wrong is thinking them beneath you
No one said I think a client is "beneath me" because they can't or won't pay my rates. I'm saying they are going about their task incorrectly. They are looking at something, in this case a logo (but you can easily substitute anything, web design, illustration, murals, whatever), and deciding that because they don't have any connection to the skills or effort required to do the job, they don't value it properly. They want high quality work for low quality pay. It's like expecting to go into a restaurant and order 5-star sushi, but only pay for chinese take-out, because to YOU, the skills and effort required to create the product aren't taken into consideration. You say it's worth $10 to YOU and don't know why YOU should have to pay the $200 that the chef is asking.

>They aren't stingy, they are rational.
They're not rational, they're uneducated. Once they learn how much it will ACTUALLY cost them, they have the choice to either accept that as how the industry works, or try and find a cut-rate artist to do a mediocre job for mediocre pay because that's all they're willing to spend.

You don't get quality unless you pay for quality. If you want to pay less, lower your standards.

>>44321232
>Also, I'm a doctor.

Nigga we have the fucking internet.

You're literally not even doing anything. Everything you know is on Google right now.

>>44321130
By the way, it costed us 25 USD per character

>>44321086
>many works of art have been deemed to be extremely valuable,
Yeah well those actually cost resource and lacking..methods and tools made them far more impressive, nowdays its just calarts students with pirated media.

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>>44321288
ayy lmao well meme'd

>>44321176
God damn you must've procrastinated hard or be real shit.

>>44321305
I don't follow. What does the school someone goes to and the way they obtain their copy of Photoshop have to do with whether or not the work they produce is valuable?

Michaelangelo didn't go to school at all, he "pirated" drawings from his teacher which he copied until he could replace them with his own without him noticing.

>>44315172
>How much would you spend on full portraits for your characters?
Nothing, I'd make a shitscribble or tiny photoshop modification of an existing picture.

If I were absolutely lazy I'd either try to get a drawfag to do it or find a picture more or less resembling what I had in mind and then base the characters appearance on that or worst case scenario

I mean how much would you pay if I wrote a character's backstory for you? Takes part of the fun out of it.

>>44321311
Sorry son, I'm not the one playing dress-up by telling fucking 4chan I'm a doctor.

>>44316806
>As far as I can comprehend it.
then your level of comprehension is shit nigga

>>44321332
Okay then. You have ten minutes to tell me the possible configurations of the coronary arteries. Using google.

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>>44321320
Nah, solid hours of working. Like I said, I know I'm a slow artist, but 3 fucking hours is illogical

>>44321176
Good work. Better than average.

>>44321320
You argument is invalid.

>>44321096

/TG/ literally cannot exist without artists doing their trade and making the games that you fucking sperg over.

Way to be a fucking asshat.

>>44321396
But why should they do it for money?

I mean, sure, people here thrive on the content, but that doesn't mean they value it.

>>44315440
>twenty dollars

WHAT
THE
FUCK

>>44321406

Man, even shit indie games takes years of practice to get to that level of garbage. The good ones are done by people who have at least 20 years of experience doing shit until they start doing good shit.

Sid Meyer is worth more than all your lineage combined.

>>44321290
This is a good deal.

I think the characters look gay and /co/mblr as fuck, but a group of people pitching in often gives everybody a quality product and avoids the artist getting paid scraps.

>>44321435
But you don't get it.

I say I don't value it. So they don't deserve to make a living off of it. Because I want that stuff for free, since to me it's just throwaway stuff I don't care about it.

>>44321176
good work, what is your name?

>>44321444

Artists are the one who makes your porn.

>>44321396
hold up.

I'm not saying that artists who is hired to work shouldn't be paid enough to live off of.

I'm saying that you're not entitled to become an artist, and you're not entitled to make a living wage if you're working freelance.

There is a difference, in my mind at least.

>>44321130
>no sense of proportion
>symbol drawing like her life depends on it
>the most boring fucking characters on this earth
>muh lesbians so quirky and original ^_^

cancer

>>44321454
If you couldn't figure it out, I was being sarcastic by mirroring what a lot of people in this thread have been saying.

I'm a professional graphic designer and illustrator.

>>44321325
>I don't follow
Right, lets do it like this then. Imagine a more proffesional and actually not digital work here: boat building. An old and respectable craft that even today requires great care and focus. Materials and shaping them costs lots of money at the time and anyone paying does so top dollar.

Now imagine if some young "creative" twat whos reading some old ship based fantasy who went out and got all his resources, shipping all made for free thanks to a free device and even got lease from error and his work way, way more easier than the old masters.

What Im saying is that your art has no actual value, not even close to the old skill and effort that went trough into the old masterpeices. Modernisation basically made drawing piss worth other than those whod be kind enough to humor the artist.

>>44321454
They dumb for trying to live off of it then, because shit's just gonna end up on the internet for free anyway.

>>44321445
I'm silvan-raptor on deviantart, I mostly do shitty oc though

>>44321478
>most of it is shitty

sounds about right.

>>44315172
>How much would you spend on full portraits for your characters
Nothing, why would I do this?

Seems like a waste of money. I'm mean sure kudos to the people that do, exercise your right to use your money but it seems so trivial and wasteful.

On a personal note, I wouldn't actually take money for my art, even i I reached OP tiers. I draw for two things, I like to do it and because I like to draw for people. Anything more would feel weird.

>>44321490
Not denying it

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>>44321467
>What Im saying is that your art has no actual value
I still don't understand. The medium matters to you, when it comes to a drawing? Like, a mechanical pencil somehow inherently produces "more valuable" things than a tablet?

Do you consider Vermeer and Picasso to be on the same level when it comes to the "actual value" of the work they produced? If so, why? If not, why? I assume you don't know the difference in their tools, only the product they created.

What about Wayne Reynolds? Is his work more valuable than another illustrator in the business?

You need to actually give qualifiers, because you don't actually seem to be familiar with any of effort that goes into any level of artwork, probably because you've never been exposed to any willingly.

>>44321478
>silvan-raptor
very colourful I like it

>>44315172
I actually do portraits for my group at the start of each new campaign, but not professionally or something. Something the size and depth of your pic isn't a thing we could afford

>>44315172
Christ fuck this is the most shameless viraling I see here since a long time.

>>44321476

That's a funny thing actually. Making mainstream porn doesn't make money since 2009 because all of it was purchased by TWO DUDES during the economic crash. These two dudes makes all their money from porn piracy... It's ridiculous and self-defeating but there you have it.

It's why the only new porn you get now is made by amateurs and/or by exploiting vulnerable people. Gone is the respectable profession of professional titilation.

It's fucking horrible.

Unless you have a decent amount of disposable income and actually pay for indie porn tailored to your unique fetish. Then you're in a golden era. Lucky you.

>>44321521
Just accept that we don't owe you shit, m8. The world has moved on.

>>44321543
OP is just thirsty for commissions because his art school degree ain't paying the bills.

>>44321349
Not that guy but should you really demand much if your work quality is subpar? I mean yeah he's a big fucking idiot if he thinks op's image took less than a day but if the artist doesn't put all in for the money aren't you cheating your source of income?

I mean, thinking from both perspectives the commissioner is loosing money if the artist is tardy and don't do his moneys worth.

>>44321548
who are these two dudes? why would they do something like this?

>>44321548
Oh cry me a river you fucking pussy.

>>44321550
>Just accept that we don't owe you shit, m8.
Are you responding to someone that isn't me? Because that sounds like it's either an angry response to a different conversation, or you just have no idea how to answer me and you're just falling back on inane gibberish.

>>44321521
Things are worth what people want to pay for them

Move your fucking asses mods, stealthy advertising for games is one thing, shit like this thread is fucking ridicolous

>>44321561
>>44321563

>Why?

Because it's a lot easier to pirate your own shit without legal repecrucssion. They don't actually have to pay any of their staff, they're supposed to make money from royalties. Problem is, if your boss pirates your shit the instant you release it... you're pretty much boned.

>who they?

Fabian Thylmann. Actually looks like it might be one dude after all.

File: tyrande_and_malfurion_by_siakim-d4j82u5.jpg (642KB, 780x1169px) Image search: [Google]

642KB, 780x1169px

$5 maximum for something like pic related.