/wodg/ World of Darkness General

Unrelated to the thread, I just thought of some WoD-as-shit Deviant inspiration.

Parasite Eve.

It's all thanks to me. I am the one who is stirring up all of this conversation.

Roll Resolve, faggot.

>>43973319

If this is considered talkative for /wodg/, it will be nothing compared to when Mage 2e is finally released (assuming the art is ever finished and Paradox doesn't hold it forever as they "improve" it with some "One World of Darkness" metaplot).

>>43973373
Yes, trolling is so productive. Can you use your 733t skills and somehow manage to make another 200 posts about why mage sucks vs why it doesn't? It's practically unheard of, maybe you should write a book

Rolled 1, 7 = 8 (2d10)

>>43973373
You're doing the God-Machine's work, anon.

>>43973577
You feel a pressing need to shitpost at this >>43973552 anon about how Mages suck.

>>43973821
Try making me do something I actually don't want to.

>>43973446

Does anyone see anything ominous about the fact the company working on the Mage product line is called Paradox?

File: bueno.jpg (249KB, 904x573px) Image search: [Google]

249KB, 904x573px

>>43973849

>>43973868
Don't talk about it, just let it happen.

>>43973868

Nothing good can come of speaking aloud or writing of such things.

>>43973868

It's the same reaction you get when you find out that Pentex is an actual company RL.

File: Woundgate.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>43973446
Well, like I said, we're going through threads twice as fast. When Mage 2e comes out, we'll be slow. It'll be like the release of a major video game, everyone will be off playing that.

Anyway, reasking:

I want to use a modified Woundgate to run a portal fantasy game where the players are mundane people who wake up in a fantasy world made up of the broken shards of various WoD realms, left over from all the times that reality has been roughed up. You can walk through from the Mortal world through the Hedge to the Underworld to the Shadow to the Inferno to the Abyss and back to the Mortal world, provided you don't die along the way. There are remnants of lost civilizations that never existed in the mortal world. I'm also tempted to go with an Elsewhere thing and have it where Aliens have moved in.

It's basically a world where the Apocalypse is post, and still slowly eating away at the world, with some places falling into the Abyss or ceasing to exist, Neverending Story style.

The players are people from the real world who've dreamed about this place throughout their lives.

Any advice what to do with this? Should I just have people make characters and throw them together and make something up while I go along?

File: Mage.jpg (70KB, 1600x1000px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 1600x1000px

>>43973868
They don't exactly have a good track record...

>>43974060
When new editions come out things go fast, because there's a contingent that subscribes to SomethingAwful and likes to copypaste complaints about it from there to stir up shit. Meanwhile all the Dave worshipers here will be arguing up a storm.

>>43974060
Brainstorm up some random events, setting pieces, plot hooks, etc., but overall improv is probably your best bet.

>>43974163

Ferrenus is going to provide so much trolling gold for the general. I can't wait.

>>43973367

I wanna believe Parasite Eve was on the list of the DaveB influences, wasn't it?

>>43974163

Nope, they'll be begging for the promised post-release Legacy conversions.

>>43974278
I don't recall seeing it, but then it has been a while since I looked at the Deviant stuff that has been listed out.

>>43974385
No one gives a shit about the actual product, especially now when our % of actual players has dropped. They just care that other people say it's great or awful.

>>43974212
I'm wondering if I should have a reason. Or what that reason should be.

I'm leaning towards their first "goal" being a "down the Yellow Brick Road" sort of thing. Go find the Wizard and on the way there see some stuff, do some inventory management and survival, and maybe get injured and deal with that. Maybe some sidequests. I want a very low fantasy feel, with lots of anachronistic technology and architecture and clothing. I'm thinking that since this is the Occult Republic of America, I'm going to focus on Americana things, mostly between the Colonial era and Westward Expansion.

I figure I can think of a reason for them to be in the ORA as I go along. I've mostly just wanted a game that focused around survival...

>>43974193
>>I'm of the near reverse opinion: Consesus is a horrid pile bullshit the size of Jupiter, while the Lie, the Supernal and the Fallen make sense.
>What? No. I'm saying the consensus is bad, but the Lie is far, far worse because it SOMEHOW manages to be more inconsistent than a world that boils down to "just like yout opinion, mang".
>In Awakening there IS no "lie" since the Exarchs ARE the objective truth that - due to time bullshit - will reign supreme for all eternity.
>I find that even more depressing and utterly pointless than Dreaming's total mess of a theme that basically boiled down to NORMIES REEEEE, or close enough as makes no difference.
No it doesn't. You just don't understand what "Lie" means.

The Exarchs are the objective truth of the world as it is, but not the Truth of the world as it's meant to be.

I'm trying to make a one-shot mage campaign in the 80s. I'm thinking about having the players stop a vampire drug ring, but since I'm not too familiar with mage splats, I was hoping I could get some direction in terms of what books to reference.

>>43974975
you just need the core for that
something to build the vampires would be useful, so either the vampire core or hunter: night stalkers

>>43975866
Or you could make Vampires using Mage.

>>43974193
>In Awakening there IS no "lie" since the Exarchs ARE the objective truth that - due to time bullshit - will reign supreme for all eternity.
They never reigned until they always reigned. And they can go back to never reigning again, if the Pentacle wins.

Of course, part of the question is what to replace it with. The world after the usurpation by the Exarchs is, if nothing else, a world much more comprehensible to humans. Exarchs keep their tyranny in human terms. Things were probably a lot scarier (although also probably a lot less depressing) under the Old Gods.

In the comments on Monday's Meeting Notes, someone inquired if there was any chance of Mage 2e being released before Christmas.

Rich responded, "Stranger things have happened, and we’d love it to be, but doubtful."

Bah Humbug!

>>43977295

Should have asked "any chance of Mage 2e being released at all"

>>43977295
Considering even 2e Core isn't out and that book is LITERALLY COMPLETE...

>>43977461
>>43977471

Taking a purely commercial perspective, I would assume that OP would want to get two major products like Mage 2e and the new nWOD corebook out during the Christmas buying season. Although they have no control over any delays with the Paradox approval of the nWOD core, particularly during this transition period, behind the scenes I imagine the art delays on Mage probably royally piss off Rich.

>>43977524
They'll have Changeling 20 KS up during Christmas. For everyone who wants to be an elf I guess.

>>43977583
And Beast and Exalted are likely going to DTRPG soon for the masses.

>>43977606
>Exalted
>Soon
We haven't even seen what they're doing about the Kejop Artjack fiasco, beyond Rich saying that the artist is re-doing the pieces or something like that.

>>43977583

Except no one will actually receive C20 by Christmas. It's more like a bad tease than an actual holiday release.

>>43977606

Releasing Beast, but not Mage, before Christmans is the biggest FU I can possibly think of to loyal nWOD fans.

I also don't anticipate sales for Beast will be particularly great, and certainly nowhere near the anticipated levels for Mage or the nWOD corebook. Besides, everyone already has Beast and Exalted from the leaks and official drafts.

>>43977716
We don't need to see, they'll presumably check for plagiarism and let it go through or get different art.

>>43977716

I hope the Ex3 art is not predictive of the quality for the Mage 2e art.

>>43977736
>Except no one will actually receive C20 by Christmas.
It's just a backing.

>Releasing Beast, but not Mage, before Christmans is the biggest FU I can possibly think of to loyal nWOD fans.
Both games are bad, their fandoms deserve a big kick in the ass.
>Besides, everyone already has Beast and Exalted from the leaks and official drafts.
Hasn't stopped M20 or DA20 from being hot sellers on DTRPG

>>43977772

M20 and DA20 had about 20 years of nostalgia and well-loved prior editions to boost sales, to say nothing of the crappy word of mouth and overall bad pr that has plagued Beast and Ex3.

>>43977848
And yet Exalted will still outsell Mtaw.

It doesn't matter how much you talk about it here because it's just going to be pirated on /tg/.

>>43977772
>Both games are bad, their fandoms deserve a big kick in the ass.
My game > Your game

>>43977736
>>43977886
People buy the games because they want to a) support the company, and b) have hardcopies. Very rarely is there c) they're afraid the RIAA will arrest their grandmother.

>>43977848
Beast has fans. Exalted has a ton of fans who love the game despite the art.

>>43977772
You like ragging on Mage, huh?

>>43977761
I seriously doubt it. They have completely different developers; Holden hasn't touched Mage at all, thank god, and he was the one who chose the artists for Ex3.

>>43977955
It's the fans who are the worst.

File: Voldemort Joins the Mysterium.png (426KB, 612x792px) Image search: [Google]

426KB, 612x792px

>>43977761
This is the piece of Mage art we have.

>>43977984
Honestly? I've never really seen Mage fans do much bitching, but a lot of Mage haters bitching about Mage.

File: bird-corn-chip.jpg (41KB, 430x294px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 430x294px

>>43977984
Really. Hunter fans seem to be the worst, since they want to nerf all the supes.

>>43978034
>Honestly? I've never really seen Mage fans do much bitching, but a lot of Mage haters bitching about Mage.
You don't have to bitch about things to be the worst. Look at pdfanon, he barely bitches at all but is probably the worst poster here.

>>43978064
I don't think there are any hunter fans here.

>>43977969

The developers do not really control the art, except for providing some art notes. The art director is responsible for art and layout. That's Mike Chaney for Mage, and I assume also for Ex.

>>43978089
Aspel? His thing is Geist, I'm pretty sure.

>>43978115
His thing is thinking people want to hear from him. Since Dave is a developer and posts here he thinks they have a connection and has been all over Mage about it.

whys mage the most popular

Mage just gets a lot of attention because Dave likes to post everywhere and he's been generous with spoilers and answering questions (plus his rpg.net actual plays that landed him the developer gig). Werewolf is similarly favored because Chris is a prolific poster.

I believe Hunter fans are jealous about the attention and suffer from splat envy, as was amply proven in the recent Quiescence threads.

>>43978115
>Aspel? His thing is Geist, I'm pretty sure.

Why do I not find that surprising.

>>43978171
Amy was fairly prolific before her death and it didn't make Beast any more popular

>>43978198
She was hitting on some anons in the last thread.

But you're arguing with a mage fan there, so you must just be jealous.

File: Wizzads.jpg (57KB, 650x650px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 650x650px

>>43974223

I lurk or post in a bunch of different places (SA, here, RPGnet, OPP forums, /r/whitewolfrpg, etc), and let me tell you, Ferrinus might not be the dumbest or worst person I've seen in the WoD community, but goddamn if he's not the furthest up his own ass by a mile. Even if he's right for once. ESPECIALLY if he's right for once.

He's practically the antithesis of funhavery.

>>43978230
>but goddamn if he's not the furthest up his own ass by a mile.
Nah not compared to this place. Aspel thinks his work his perfect and anyone who comments on it is just a troll. Atamajakki calls everything racist. Everything.

>>43978256

Dunno who the latter guy is but point on the former.

>>43978256
Amy V constantly posts, then deletes her posts, then pretends it was someone else posting and she doesn't know what you're talking about. Branford keeps posting quotes from here on the onyx path board acting like he's Moses coming down the mountain because he can copy and paste.

>>43978089
You seem to be the worst. Also, Hunter is super loved. Are you dumb, or a troll?

>>43978167
That makes no grammatical sense.

>>43978168
It's the one getting the next release.

>>43978178
Because you don't pay attention. Also, I became disillusioned with Geist, I have no thing, or maybe Hunter is my thing. But more of a Mortals+ kind of Hunter. I'm planning a Mortals+ game that uses the Hunter template.

>>43978198
Amy isn't dead, she just learned why Ambien CR is super hardcore and can fuck you up

>>43978256
>>43978269
No I don't, I've repeatedly taken people's criticisms into advisement. It's just that "it sucks, kill yourself" is trolling.

>>43978198
>>43978224

I wish Amy well, but to state the obvious, she's just not Dave or Chris (or IanW, Neall, and some other OP authors on their rare visits to /wodg/). Something was never quite right, even without the Beast draft leak problems.

>>43978310
>No I don't, I've repeatedly taken people's criticisms into advisement.
You actually had a huge hissy fit insisting no one tried to help you with your work so you didn't need to change it. You kept ignoring people who tried to give you advice, or just told them they were wrong.

>>43978310
>That makes no grammatical sense.
He's saying you've been focusing interests on Mage because you think Dave B talks to you.

>>43978330
I ignore bad advice, yes. I listen to good advice. Although I never write anything down, so I usually forget it. I need to put the advice to work for that Final Girl Compact.

Also, I've been focusing on Mage because the thread's been focusing on Mage. Stop projecting, weirdo.

>>43978365
You haven't listened to anything except people telling you they like your work. You ignore the stuff at the end telling you what you need to do to make it better.

And you've been focusing on Mage because DaveB is the only one who talks to you because you post Anonymously and he doesn't immediately recognize you for who you are. That's why you don't go on the forums, remember? Too many people giving you advice or ignoring you.

>>43978365
You're still at the same place you were five years ago.

So i'm the guy who briefly mentioned how to make a MtAw game more like the Harry Potter universe. I figured things like dragons and magic creatures bleed through from the Supernal realm of magic, and that the Awakened have some lineage or connection to the Ancient Mages of Atlantis/Meru/Lemuria etc.

Anything else?

>>43978398
Dude, I entirely rewrote the magical girl conspiracy based on advice from Anons. I'm "focusing" on Mage because Mage was my first game, and I'm knowledgeable enough to answer the questions people keep asking. Are you mad that I didn't like some snippet of advice you gave or something?

>>43978446
That kind of thing actually gets a few shout outs in Mirrors. But like I suggested, I'd have mass Awakenings, enough that schools need to be set up and everyone needs to work together. The Houses can be based on the Orders.

Set the Academies up around Verges or other supernatural hot spots (to better monitor those places, and for training purposes) and that should cover weird things like dragons and whatever.

Alternately, you could use Awakening and rewrite the whole WoD around a sort of Harry Potter style world, using only the mechanics and a bit of fluff. That'd actually be pretty cool.

File: tumblr_nt02swlDH61sj69nvo1_1280.jpg (1MB, 1200x1819px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1200x1819px

>>43973319

I just storytimed all my sessions so far

>>43977117

How is everyone else's party doing? Looks like mine is going to be running the state in a few sessions desu senpai

>>43978650

Shit I'm not the OP of THIS thread

I'm the OP of the storytime thread

Forgot to change muh name

>>43978656
It's okay, we're smart enough to figure that out.

File: dissapoint.gif (2MB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 320x240px

>>43978089
>>43978310
I'm with Aspel here. You're trying to hard to get a rise out of people.

Hey Aspel, have you given up on your Geist update? The bit you've made I'd pretty good, but seems to lack mechanical changes.

I haven't really been keeping up with much, but is there any chance we might see the Imbued make a come back? Either as a group of hunters or their own thing?

File: Geist House Rules Overview.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>43978963
I "gave up" ages ago in that I haven't really worked on it. Although there are mechanics. They're here. https://www.mediafire.com/folder/mboqz97x42en3/Geist
Overview:
● Made Plasm easier to get, mostly expanding on things that already existed (including the notion that you can get it back by doing something that resonates with your Threshold)
● Gave each Threshold a power. Silent are hard to notice, Prey get a mini boneyard, Torn can do a little more damage and make healing times longer, Stricken can be better at Medicine, Forgotten can reflexively reroll a failure at -1. I should probably change those a bit.
● Made the Geist actually disagree with control of your body; it's sort of like the Beast, only it doesn't always want to murder, just indulge in it's Vice. You can also do a "Ride the Wave" willingly.
● New Breaking Point questions based on Geists. I'm tempted to redo Synergy more like Harmony. Harmony is just so well done.
● Krewes are formed by agreeing on an Ethos, which is a Persistent Condition based around doing or not doing something, that gives a Krewe strength. I might change that up a bit, too.
● Not in that PDF for some reason, but every Sin-eater has a Passion. A Passion is basically a second Vice that represents why the Geist wanted to even be alive again. Some form of Unfinished business or deep desire. I've been using the Vampire Mask/Dirge as examples.

Man, I took a shower and was going to work on one homebrew, but now I want to work on this one...

mega:#fm/sggD3Shb

In regards to not having a trove.

I put this together yesterday and I'm not even close to awake enough to stock it with the couple of books I know it doesn't have.

in the mean time enjoy.

File: 402088d1c948a36f455cda6e959fbc9f.jpg (40KB, 454x700px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 454x700px

>>43977035
>Of course, part of the question is what to replace it with.
Excuse me sir, have you heard the joyous word of our lord and saviour the almighty god-machine?

File: d564203c702801702d550c39c35e8329.jpg (66KB, 406x600px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 406x600px

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5xnLsYBPAE
These rants feel so. fucking. Mage. Or maybe Les Mysteres is closer.

File: technicolor wolf.jpg (238KB, 1024x915px) Image search: [Google]

238KB, 1024x915px

This is how I Bone Gnawer.

File: changeling the dreaming.jpg (41KB, 294x400px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 294x400px

Am I the only one who still likes Changeling: The Dreaming and is excited for C20? I mean, yes, Changeling: The Lost was better, but Dreaming was still good.

>>43979985
Personally, i prefer CtD (shitty taste, i know, i know).
But yeah, the lost is pretty damn good, and i am really excited too

>>43979985
Dreaming is much better than its reputation and much worse than Lost.

>>43979133
Coming back to this, I'm rethinking the Prey Blessing.

> Blessing: The Prey are in tune with nature. By spending a point of Plasm for each interaction, they can commune with nature, using Presence + Survival or Animal Ken as appropriate to use Social Maneuvering on a natural location to create territory. The attitude starts at Average, and once it reaches Excellent the Prey understands what goes on within it at a moment’s concentration, though they can’t see or hear anything through it. For each step above Good, the Sin-eater and her bound krewe gains a +1 bonus while her enemies suffer a -1 penalty per step.
Looking back on it, this is the kind of thing that doesn't *reeeally* work out right. I don't really say how you change the impression for it. I've got a few different ideas, but not sure which is best.
>1p to give an environmental Tilt to an opponent
I don't wanna do that because Environmental Tilts are good to represent the Boneyard.
>1p to ignore an environmental Tilt
It's useful, but not super useful (and most STs will probably forget about environmental penalties, if my experience is true).
>1p to get Good Impression with an animal
Useful, but probably not the best. Primeval stuff should probably do that kind of thing, and I don't want to tread ground twice.

Then again... I could just have them create a territory without bothering with the social maneuvering of the area... I should have thought of that. But even then, everyone else's power is more useful, and short term.

I've also changed the Stricken. Now instead of paying 1p to treat Medicine as an Exceptional at 3 successes, they can give an opponent the Sick tilt.

>>43980151
You have an issue with over using *emphasis*... ellipses to... really. It turns me off.

File: Absolutely Heretical.png (593KB, 1185x1029px) Image search: [Google]

593KB, 1185x1029px

Gehenna when??

>>43980172
Well what can I do to turn you on?
If you get my drift~ [eyebrow waggle]

>>43980180
Ew.

>>43979659

Looks like a character for Hotline Miami.

Which Merit combination would you recommend for an Unchained wishing to create a simple Infrastructure detection device? I know most Infrastructure probably won't go away unless the Linchpin is targeted but a drone rigged to detonate once near it could go a long way.

>>43980870
Demons can always see Infrastructure and can sense Lynchpins.

>>43980821
I'd play the shit out of Apocalypse Hotline.

>>43980890
I know. The task at hand is trying to McGuyver a device capable of detecting Infrastructure even in the most general way.

>>43980923
But the Demon itself is that device.

File: Unchained Shitposting.png (2KB, 333x86px) Image search: [Google]

2KB, 333x86px

>>43980986
>But the Demon itself is that device.
Etheric Goggles (•• or ••••)

Function: Etheric goggles look like slightly bulkier, more
complicated versions of the night-vision goggles employed
by the United States Armed Forces. In fact, etheric goggles
serve as perfectly functional night-vision goggles, allowing
the wearer to see perfectly — albeit in monochrome — in
pitch darkness (see the World of Darkness Rulebook, p.
140). Their primary use comes into play when the hunter fl ips
151
ENDOWMENTS|ADVANCED ARMORY
a pair of oddly purplish lenses down over the infrared light
source on the goggles’ brow, allowing the wearer to see objects
in Twilight as clearly as if they were manifested physically.
The process required to treat the lenses to render Twilight visible creates weird distortions of the physical world. While the
hunter is using the goggles to see Twilight objects, he suffers
a -2 penalty to Perception checks made to notice anything in
the physical world.
For four dots, a VALKYRIE agent may requisition a more
advanced model that can pick up trace etheric disturbances
left behind by incorporeal creatures after they pass. These
traces appear as a softly luminescent purple cloud that trails
behind a spirit or ghost, enabling it to be tracked. The trail
fades after 10 minutes per point of Power the spirit entity possesses. (In the case of beings that use the full nine Attribute
spread, such as a Twilight-walking witch, use the highest of
Strength, Intelligence or Presence.)
Etheric goggles have a battery life of six hours as a night vision device, or three hours when used to see Twilight objects.

This is Etheric Goggles from HtV's Advanced Armoury. I want to make this for the GM. How would I go about doing this?

>>43980986

I suspect he means a device that doesn't need the demons direct oversight, so he can make a drone of it.

>>43980894

Look up the Hotel Mascarone for Hunter. Not the same, but fucking awesome none the less.

>>43981075
>Look up the Hotel Mascarone for Hunter. Not the same, but fucking awesome none the less.
A quick look-up on DTRPG seems to indicate it's not a separate sourcebook. Where do I need to look?

>>43981130
It's a fanmade Conspiracy based on Hotline Miami.

http://forums.whitewolfarchive.com/default7e0f.html

>>43981160
Thankee sai.

Still working on Sin-eater 2e.

I'm trying to think of what their Vice/Virtue replacement should be. All I can think of is Wake and Casket. All the good terms are taken already. Vanitas and Memento are taken within Geist, even, and Dirge is used by Vampire.

>>43981197
>>43981197
Wake and Lament.

>>43981049
>I suspect he means a device that doesn't need the demons direct oversight, so he can make a drone of it.
Exactly.

>>43981347
Those were ones I was thinking of. Others ideas are Eulogy, Epitaph, Elegy...

I'm thinking one will represent the whole "eat drink and be merry" aspect, while the other is more morose and thoughtful.

>people unironically like mage

File: structure.jpg (48KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 800x600px

>>43981768
it's the only good WoD game. problem?

>>43981855
Mage the Ascension is the only good WoD game.

>>43981855

Is that a salt crystal?

>>43982248
Lying is bad, anon

Here's the Sin-eater 2e stuff I've got for the second draft of >>43979133. I'm going to sleep now.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SMgt9996QXnCahP_B6acce9_vZuj5myu_3RC7JYygpw/edit?usp=sharing

>>43981347
Went with Wake and Epitaph. Tried to keep the Archetypes there in some form or other, though I still could use at least one more Epitaph. I put in seven Wakes.

File: 1409209827503.jpg (159KB, 858x1000px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 858x1000px

>>43981768
>stop liking what I don't like.

>>43982281
I think the page I pulled it from specifically used it to illustrate a NaCl crystal (also known as cooking salt), but any crystal lattice of two different kinds of atoms alternating is strictly speaking a salt. So yes.

File: 1439815254770.png (144KB, 508x328px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 508x328px

I have never seen good scenarios or playthroughs of:
•Mage
•Changeling
•Wraith
•Mummy
•Beast
•Exalted
•Trinity

They are hence unplayable. Prove me wrong!

>>43978168
>>43978171
And Vampire's always going to be popular because of VtMB.

>>43984066

I can't

>>43984098
other way around, VtMB is always going to be popular because of the original roleplaying books. It's too bad the PC game for Werewolf never got off the ground beyond some alpha screenshots & the Hunter console game was a dogshit Gauntlet wanna-be

>>43984130
No, he had it right. VTMB got most people into the tabletop games.

>>43984066
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization

Do I get a cookie?

>>43984273
Log onto facebook, theyll give you loads

>>43984151

It's impressive how well it gets people into the oWoD. D&D games have a 50-60% chance but almost all new WoD fans I've met who got into it after 2005 played Bloodlines first.

>>43984066

Eve of Judgment from the Mummy core is a good adventure. The Dreams of Avarice trilogy is hit and miss. Fun moments with a little too much canned text and some very silly bits ("I have to stop in front of the Nightmare Circus! I just HAVE to!")

I used to do an AP of my Mummy game but it's years out of date, and maybe a little too mired in my personal WoD continuity to be a good read. Might revisit it.

Also Promethean isn't on your list where is the good Promethean AP. Tell me!

File: steamed curry.jpg (443KB, 730x1095px) Image search: [Google]

443KB, 730x1095px

>>43984356
>It's impressive how well it gets people into the oWoD. D&D games have a 50-60% chance but almost all new WoD fans I've met who got into it after 2005 played Bloodlines first.
Probably partially due to D&D's (partially self-created) 'classic fantasy' varnish making it fade into the background far more.


So, /WoDg/, which other splats would work well as PC games? Methinks HtV (Union, TFV and Night Watch 'paths' as starting points with the other Compacts/Conspiracies being NPC factions) and DtD (Stigmatic/Fractal PC) would be kind of cool.

Maybe Geist, but that's a big maybe.

Mage, Mummy or Promethean on the other hand seems completely impossible.

>>43984477
Mage could be a character-based puzzle game like HuniePop, or a hidden object puzzle adventure like the Baker Street games about stolen pie recipes or whatever. The only genres that would work.

>>43984356
Speaking of the Created, I just had a stupid idea, an Extempore created by a Sin Eater.

The flavor I came up with for the first, and likely only, member of the Lineage is that a Sin-Eater ate some dodgy ghosts, and puked them up all over where a serial killer had buried the corpses of several of his victims, that's it.

I'm thinking of getting into this.
Where do I start? Changeling?

>>43984520

I would play a hidden object Mage game with gusto. It's me, I'm the person who supports that industry.

>>43984477

Werewolf is the Beat 'em Up RPG we've been waiting for. Changeling and Wraith is a Witcher style RPG. DtD would make a great spy adventure game. I could see Mummy working as a strange fusion of RPG and grand strategy.

>>43984589

Well, what kind of horror/urban fantasy do you like the most?

>>43984066
>I have never seen good scenarios or playthroughs of:
>•Mage

If you want to see great examples of Mage play, check out any of DaveB's actual play threads over at rpg.net (I also think audio conversions are available on the OPP Mage Forum). They're LONG, but excellent, and the reason he was chosen as developer for Mage 2e.

>>43984842
...conversions? So they were text games some schmuck read, or RL games converted to text before being converted into audio?
>RPG.net
Now here's a place whose decline I still mourn.

>>43985018
They're RL games, recorded as audio (privately), written up as text.

Then somebody used an automatic text reader program to turn it into cold, emotionless robot audio.

>>43984592
>I would play a hidden object Mage game with gusto. It's me, I'm the person who supports that industry.
I'll get right on it, seriously. Paradox ain't got time to hunt pet projects like these that are free advertising for them, and god knows WoD vidya has a cursed history

>>43985095
>Then somebody used an automatic text reader program to turn it into cold, emotionless robot audio.
2spooky

>>43985149
>I'll get right on it, seriously. Paradox ain't got time to hunt pet projects like these that are free advertising for them, and god knows WoD vidya has a cursed history
inb4 sued to oblivion.

>>43985201
It's mostly shit because it doesn't provide proper emphasis and can't distinguish between game text and behind-the-scenes bluenote text.

>>43985018

Dave's games are quite real and the write-ups were done by him. I believe someone later transcribed the text to audio for those with certain disabilities (I've only read numerous the rpg.net posts).

>>43985095
>If you want to see great examples of Mage play, check out any of DaveB's actual play threads over at rpg.net

What's the campaign called?

>>43978064
Hunter fans really only sperg out over Lunacy and Quiescence.

>>43978198
>Amy was fairly prolific before her death
Is this shitposting or did she really commit suicide?

>>43985401
No, she got admitted to hospital after taking an overdose then signed herself out, said goodbye forever and now posts without a trip because she's trying to salvage the tattered shreds of her career

>>43985401

I believe Amy is alive, but clearly still unwell.

>>43985435
well crap.

>>43985376
To be fair, those directly interfere with what Hunters do.
If I was playing Vampire and a sizeable portion of the mortal population had anti-vampire antibodies or some other bullshit in their blood, I'd sperg out, too.

>>43985466
The thing that irritates me is that Hunter was the crossover game long before Beast was even a thought yet all the other developers turned their noses up at it and said 'give them generic monsters, we won't be catering to any crossplay unless it gives our splats the overwhelming advantage' yet when Beast comes along they bend over backwards for it.

>>43985356
>>If you want to see great examples of Mage play, check out any of DaveB's actual play threads over at rpg.net
>What's the campaign called?

If I recall correctly, there were three campaigns:
-Broken Diamond
-Soul Cage
-The Man Comes Around

Here's the OP Mage Forum link:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/610129-broken-diamond-by-daveb-converted-to-mp3-by-ivona-reader

The Man Comes Around:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/610129-broken-diamond-by-daveb-converted-to-mp3-by-ivona-reader

The rpg.net links for Broken Diamond and Soul Cages can be found within the Mage forum posts.

>>43985517
>we won't be catering to any crossplay unless it gives our splats the overwhelming advantage
Even at the start, the supes had a powerful advantage, such that you could rely on HtV characters surviving more than a few missions simply because, for a change, the monsters are literally that, and are just that fucking dangerous.
I'm ok with a lower class monster of the week type, and breaking out the real deal when shit gets real and the players need to remember that they are not the biggest monsters on the block.

>>43985517

Beast was clearly an experiment, and it turned-out to be mostly crap.

I seems that the developers' original attitudes toward Hunter and explicit crossover were correct.

>>43985594

Hunter also had three tiers of power explicitly to account for the fact that some monsters, particularly the major PC splats, were supposed to be far more powerful than the average generic gibbering horror or occultist.

The Quiescence, Lunacy and similar complaints have mostly just been about why can't lower tier, entirely mortal human characters face A-list supernaturals without extreme difficulty. I constantly wonder if those complaining realize that the nWOD is a HORROR setting.

>>43982248
We can't all just groupthink and pretend our way to power. The rest of us had to go through shit. Hell, even the other mages gotta smash their being into world symbols to stand a chance of not getting erased, and reality hates them for it.

>>43985747
>Tier 3
>Designed to face A-list supernaturals
>TFV are considered sleepers and are subject to Lunacy

You're an idiot.

>>43985747
Has anyone complained about Lunacy?

>>43985810
Whether you're a Sleeper or a Sleepwalker doesn't matter for Lunacy, only the Mage thing.

>>43985810

Normal humans fighting Awakened Mages and Werewolves is very difficult and dangerous, and likely quite lethal, even with magical weaponry. This is surprising because...?

>>43985820
>Has anyone complained about Lunacy?

Yes, definitely, but not nearly as much as Quiescence. Dave's spoilers and comments have certainly fanned the flames.

>>43985938
>Yes, definitely,
Where?

>>43984589
there's a site called thesubnet.com that has a fairly comprehensive overview of most WW/OP products, with some errors corrected via updates and the absence of older editions of cWoD beyond the latest before the Anniversary.

Beyond that, check the forums, test the waters of the community for feel and thematic, see what seems enjoyable. In terms of changeling, you have different avenues depending on the version you're considering. If you mean Lost, you'll be in good company: it's generally considered an improvement and has a lot of fans for both the current and forthcoming edition. If Dreaming, there's a rather small but avid fanbase, and the kickstarter for the 20th Anniversary starts within a week or so, giving an opportunity to see what it's about

>>43985966

The complaints can be found at both the OP Mage and Hunter forums, rpg.net. and even here on occasion.

>>43986034
You're confusing the mage shit for Lunacy. Those wanting change for how mages fuck up peoples minds use Lunacy as an example of how it should be.

>>43986034
Worth keeping in mind it's not Hunter fans who care about Quiescence being changed, it's Mage fans who want to interact with other games.

Though since there's no Hunter fans here you can continue to insult them.

I think the thing people don't understand is that Lunacy comes from the Werewolf (or Luna), it is external. Quiescence is internal, it comes from the Sleeper. Is part of their nature (until they somehow get rid of it, i.e. become Sleepwalkers). High Willpower can defend you from an outside force, but not from your very being.

>>43986069

A number of Hunter fans have complained about both Lunacy and Quiescence.

The more absolute nature of Quiescence has unsurprisingly generated more complaints than Luncacy.

Some have requested that Quiescence act more like Lunacy as a comprise. Dave's explicit refusal, no less comments like "I am sustained by the tears of Hunter fans," has exacerbated the tone and frequency of the complaints.

>>43986182
cry more, branford

>>43986154
>it's not Hunter fans who care about Quiescence being changed, it's Mage fans who want to interact with other games.

You and I are definitely not reading the same complaints.

>>43986197
>cry more, branford

Who?

>>43986154
>>43986212
I mostly don't like it because it cuts out the chance of having one determined crazy guy with a notebook from being a minor antagonist.

>>43986182
>A number of Hunter fans have complained about both Lunacy and Quiescence.
None on rpg.net or forum.theonyxpath

>>43986287
Plus if you use magic in front ofyour girlfriend/sister/mom/child they'll go insane.

>>43986287
>I mostly don't like it because it cuts out the chance of having one determined crazy guy with a notebook from being a minor antagonist.
This is definitely my problem with it. I like the idea of Sleeper Hunters as antagonists for my Mage game, which is why "just give them Sleepwalker, it's 1 Experience" isn't really a valid solution to the problem for me.

>>43986287
And what if he's determined and crazy *because* of the Conditions he got for losing integrity, huh?

>>43986287
>I mostly don't like it because it cuts out the chance of having one determined crazy guy with a notebook from being a minor antagonist.

It only prevents such an individual from being an effective antagonist to an Awakened mage, not all supernaturals. It also only takes the one dot Sleepwalker merit to eliminate this problem. In fact, the merit would seem to very thematically appropriate for such an antagonist.

>>43986323
Well sure, but that's still "Sleepers are fragile, be careful not to break them with your impossible god powers" not "Even Sleepers can be dangerous, don't underestimate them".

And "Even standard mortals can be dangerous to supernatural PCs" was one of my favourite things about nWoD as opposed to oWoD. The fact that the Quiescence gives Mage PCs basically blanket immunity to being in danger from Sleepers bothers me. Sleepers should be fodder for more horror than just ways you can hurt and victimize them.

>>43986370
But how does he even know what he's hunting, if just trying to put it together causes him another Integrity break and then he just forgets it all again?

>>43986327

If you want sleeper antagonists in Mage, just ignore the rule or change Quiescence to suit your tastes. It's definitely not the default setting, but no one will stop you.

>>43986419
Yeah, I think I might just reintroduce the "How hard Quiescence hits you depends on your Willpower score" thing and be done with it, even if it supposedly doesn't make sense metaphysically.

>this is all anyone's going to talk about until the next nwod book comes out (not counting beast)
>because no one's going to be talking about changeling the dreaming and we're getting nothing from anywhere else

>>43986457
>hunterfags ruining the game for everyone else
At least your tears are sustaining Dave

>>43986457
Speaking of Mages and Willpower, how come Mages are referred to as Willworkers, and doing magic is referred to as working your will, but nothing about magic has anything to do with the stat that represents the strength of your will and how much of your reserves you have left to draw on? A recent mention of Proximi casting by rolling their Willpower pool instead of Gnosis+Arcana made me notice how weird it is that Mages can only apply Willpower to casting the same way they apply it to any other, completely mundane thing.

>>43986493
Where did I mention anything about being a hunterfag? I just got done talking about how I don't give a shit about hunter, and how I think casting Sleepers as pure victims is artificially limiting for Mage games. I'm talking about using Sleepers in the context of Mage, not Hunter.

>>43986377

Individual human were never much of a threat to major supernaturals, and with the power increases in the second editions, this proves ever more so. I think this idea was reinforced by Hunter's own monster creation system that generally created creatures much weaker than PC splats.

I always understood that any threat came from humanity collectively realizing what's going on in the WOD, and massively turning-out with the torches, pitchforks and big military weaponry. However, individual vampires, werewolves, mages, etc., were never really in danger from Bob the accountant or Stan the electrician.

>>43986529
>saying anything negative about mage
>implying you're not a hunter fan

>>43986576
new Mage is my favourite gameline in either WoD. I just don't think it's literally perfect.

>>43986554
Vampires and werewolves are threatened by Bob and Stan because vampires are comatose for 12 hours of a day and are killed by fire, sunlight, and wood, all of which are easily obtained, and werewolves go down to a silver bullet in the most effective killing weapon ever that is also widely available.

Mages don't have anything to worry about because we can predict their danger and, if we're taken by surprise, just cast a cantrip and let them run away as their integrity erodes.

>>43986493
>>hunterfags ruining the game for everyone else
>At least your tears are sustaining Dave

Will more Hunter tears empower Dave to produce more Mage books at a much faster pace?

>>43986471
>>because no one's going to be talking about changeling the dreaming and we're getting nothing from anywhere else

When the Kickstarter starts, and if drafts are released, rest assured people will discuss C20.

>>43986637
>When the Kickstarter starts, and if drafts are released, rest assured people will discuss C20.
You must be new here. /wodg/ hasn't said shit about any of the kickstarters except Beast.

>>43986623

Don't forget that mages, being fully human, are the crunchiest of any PC splat, and that the memory effects of Quiescence don't trigger until the end of the scene.

While Quiescence is powerful, it does not make hunting mages impossible for sleepers, only very difficult.

>>43986701
It also helps that mages have no reason to interact with humans, or even other splats, and can just do their own thing without running into hunters. And even if a hunter did run into a mage doing their good deeds with magic, the hunter would just forget about it.

Hunters are far more likely to target the bad guys than any of the good guys in the Orders.

>>43982339
I like this so far, Aspel. Much better than Virtue and Vice for Sin-eaters. Interesting giving them touchstones, by the way.

File: telltale-games-logo.png (46KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 1280x720px

>>43984477
Telltale Games is doing a Batman series next. They've also done Game of Thrones, Borderlands, Minecraft, Walking Dead, Monkey Island, Back to the Future, Jurassic Park, and most relevant, Fables.
I want to see Tales from the World of Darkness.

>The Heirarch will remember that.

>>43986806
>>The Heirarch will remember that.
it's Hierarch, and don't think for a second any video game will be doing nwod stuff, there's not even any interesting characters

>>43986793
>It also helps that mages have no reason to interact with humans, or even other splats,

Mages are obsessed with exploring Mysteries and the supernatural. I would argue that they're most likely to interact with other supernatural beings or phenomena, often at first appearing as just nosy or suspicious humans to Hunters targeting something else.

>Hunters are far more likely to target the bad guys than any of the good guys in the Orders.

I agree. I would also imagine that a Banisher looking for allies would present interesting and difficult issues for Hunters.

>>43986834
The Nemian? Khonsu?

File: B_man.jpg (23KB, 310x269px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 310x269px

>>43986806
>>43986834
>Beckett will remember that

>>43986885
>I would argue that they're most likely to interact with other supernatural beings or phenomena
Except they don't need to interact with them, they can just look at them and figure out any Mysteries they need to. And when they're trying to save the world they can just go all out and wipe the evil monsters off the map.

>>43985517
I feel like there are two problems with this post
>Hunter didn't cater to crossplay unless it "gives our splats the overwhelming advantage"
Hunter gave you the ability to run "let's fight monsters: The game" without also requiring you to own every OTHER book in the World of Darkness, which is what Reckoning expected you to do. If anything, Hunter is so that the mortals actually have a chance... and if you're running a Hunter game, Hunter rules take precedent, not Mage.
>when Beast comes along, they bend over backwards for it
And which of the games is actually great again?

Plus, I mean, the entire point of Hunter is that you're weaker.

>>43985628
Beast's problem isn't crossover, it's a lack of focus. I mean, you could claim that the lack of focus is due to crossover, but they could at least give a better fucking reason to crossover.

>>43985810
That's because they don't have internal magics. I don't know why this chaffes everyone so much. I think it's because people feel everyone at Tier 3 should be "the same", or on similar footing. But that's silly. It's like the fact that Vampires stand out among the Big Three for some effects (like Resurrection) because they're dead. Not everything needs to fit into a "pattern", and TFV soldiers don't... fit the criteria for being Sleepwalkers for "free".

>>43986154
It definitely isn't.

>>43986182
I've seen no complaints about Lunacy.

>>43986801
Everyone gets a Touchstone. That's something I hadn't really been aware of when I made the first draft, and thought it was a Vampire only thing. At the time I made the first draft, we only had Vampire and Demon, so it looked like Demon was a stand out (and in many ways it is, still using nWoD 1e traits like it does).

>>43986975
Not how it works.

>>43986974
I don't care much for oWoD, but a game like Bloodlines, that sort of distills everything down while not bogging itself in the things I hate abou the setting, that'd be the shit.

>>43987057
>Not how it works.
Yes, it is. Nothing requires you to speak to or touch any vampires, werewolves, prometheans, hunters or beasts.

File: I came here to laugh at you.jpg (14KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 500x375px

>hunters

>>43987082
Well, if you want to get that Mystery-solving EXP for finding out what something feels like.

>>43987082
This is one of those things that's so wrong I'm not sure how to even explain it to you, so instead I'm going to ask you to explain to me why you would ever think that.

Running my first horror game soon and it's gonna be in Innocents; any general tips you guys can recommend?

/wodg/ apparently I'm going to be joining a WoD game of Vampire in a few days (Old according to GM, though I think we're taking elements of nWoD and mixing it up too), and as someone who hasn't played a WoD game in a group for a VERY long time I'm not sure what I want to play.

I remember liking the Lasombra, but I don't want my whole thing to be about the Camarilla/Sabbat thing, and I like the NotSombra from VtR a lot but Obtenebration is boss as fuck.

Help me /wodg/, you're not my only hope but you're probably my best one.

>>43987128
50% of rape victims are underage

Just sayin

>>43987112
>so instead I'm going to ask you to explain to me why you would ever think that.
The fact that nothing requires you to touch or talk to any supernaturals to figure them out.

They ain't scientists, they don't need to dissect shit, they can just look at them and see the Truth.

File: 1446406385330.gif (753KB, 274x266px) Image search: [Google]

753KB, 274x266px

>>43987134

>>43987057
>I don't care much for oWoD, but a game like Bloodlines, that sort of distills everything down while not bogging itself in the things I hate abou the setting, that'd be the shit.

One of oWoD's problems were all the crazy editorial shifts and lack of communication or effort spent trying to unify the games because they only decided it was a shared world way later on, as well as some annoying as fuck metaplot characters all over the place.

Bloodlines removes nearly all of the metaplot, irons out the wrinkles, focuses on the coolest parts, nods and everything that it doesn't include, uses an entirely original cast of characters (except for Smiling Jack), and ads a dash of wry humor so that it can acknowledge how silly the setting is sometimes.

>>43987129

What's the campaign gonna be about? Where/when is it set? What basic role do you wanna fulfill?

>>43986975
>>43987057
>>43987082

>Except they don't need to interact with them, they can just look at them and figure out any Mysteries they need to.

It takes far more than looking at vampires, werewolves or other strangeness to gain new and powerful insights into Death, Life, Spirit, etc. or improve Gnosis, or almost every mage would be powerful masters with barely needing to leave the comfort of their sanctums. Mages need to get their hands dirty, and explore and delve real deep, and that's why they get into trouble.

>And when they're trying to save the world they can just go all out and wipe the evil monsters off the map.

I believe you VASTLY overestimate the power of most mages, and those who come close are bound by the Pax Arcana.

>>43987134
>>43987167
It's also usually a family member.

>>43987128
Coraline, Babadook, Mirrormask, Labyrinth, Let the Right One In...
Take an adult fear and play it out on children. >>43987134 goes right to the most uncomfortable stuff, but it doesn't need to be so explicit. You can use the same kind of themes without actually going for anyone getting their pants pulled down. Hell, go watch an old episode of Law & Order: SVU and try to think of something nonsexual on the surface that can elicit those same kind of phrases.
"We'd get in trouble if we told" "It felt wrong keeping a secret, but we were afraid to tell". You can even have the characters put into trouble or danger (not necessarily explicit life or death danger) by a person who shows them to the supernatural, and encourage them to like this character and feel the need to defend them from their parents. "No, he's our friend, you can't send him away". Which, on that note, Back to the Future. Imagine a younger Marty and a Doc Brown obsessed with the Shadow instead of time travel.

>>43987137
Again, that's simply not true, so I'm curious why you think they can instantly figure everything out.

>>43987192
>Bloodlines removes nearly all of the metaplot
And that's why it's good. It only deals with Antideluvians in the most oblique way and doesn't care about things like the RED STAR or anything like that.

>>43987538
>It's also usually a family member.

>want to play Innocents
>suddenly we /clarissa/now

Sad desu

>>43987497
>I believe you VASTLY overestimate the power of most mages
Every Mage discussion in a nutshell.

>>43987555
Que?

>>43987338
>What's the campaign gonna be about?
No idea. It's going to be a traditional sort of Vampire game according to the GM, so presumably backstabbing, politics, and low intensity street warfare on occasion.
From what I've learned the political structure is a mix of VtM and VtR; there's a Camarilla, but rather then a global conspiracy that secretly controls everything it's sort of a secret compact that upholds the Masquerade composed of various political factions that are akin to the VtR ones, sort of like the Camarilla from that Rome book VtR released.

>Where/when is it set?
Seattle, present day.
Possible flashbacks depending on character age I think, but that more depends on what/who we make.

>What basic role do you wanna fulfill?
Not that kind of game, I believe.
But if I had to pin it down, I'd say "ninja"; lots of stealth, deception, melee, and crazy Obtenebration tricks, kinda like that one Mekhet bloodline named after the oWoD Lasombra bloodline.

>>43987581
>Every Mage discussion in a nutshell.
Magee have the POTENTIAL to do cool shit, but I noticed that it's higher when they make guest star appearances outside their own games and don't have to follow their own game's rules.

>>43987581
IIRC Clarissa is a really depressing short comic about a little girl that gets molested by her dad.

>>43987581
>Que?

http://imgur.com/a/mDf8c

Please don;t click the link, you'll regret it.

>>43987582

Maybe it's just my clan favoritism coming through, but why not try an Assamite sorcerer or warrior?

>>43987137

As Dave has explained repeatedly, Mages are like university academics, and Arcana are both fields of study and the tools needed to do so.

Mages are indeed supernatural (and sometimes mundane) "scientists," and often must "dissect shit" to benefit from it, both literally and figuratively.

As a default, Mages only see the Truth that the world is the prison of the Lie. To gain power (i.e., improve Arcana and Gnosis), and see and understand even more of the Greater Truth, they have to thoroughly explore the world's Mysteries (i.e., acquire Arcane Experience). This does not happen by casual observation at a distance.

>>43987497
>Mages need to get their hands dirty, and explore and delve real deep, and that's why they get into trouble.
Except they don't, you're overestimating Mysteries.
>I believe you VASTLY overestimate the power of most mages, and those who come close are bound by the Pax Arcana.
No, you're being overly defensive. I did not mean wiping entire races off the map. But if a mage is bothered by a group of hunters or pack of werewolves they can easily destroy them by turning their hearts to silver or some other power.

Mage is a great game, and part of its greatness is that it doesn't have to deal with the shit of other games, and if a DM forces it on you, you always have the upper hand.

>>43987538
>Again, that's simply not true, so I'm curious why you think they can instantly figure everything out.
I didn't say they can instantly figure everything out, but anything they want to figure out can be figured out without actually having to talk with lesser people. Mage Sight sees the Truth in all things, and obtaining all the pieces of a puzzle takes no more than a glimpse. Putting the pieces in their places is something you do in your own time, and also doesn't require interacting with them.

>>43987650
>As a default, Mages only see the Truth that the world is the prison of the Lie. To gain power (i.e., improve Arcana and Gnosis), and see and understand even more of the Greater Truth, they have to thoroughly explore the world's Mysteries (i.e., acquire Arcane Experience). This does not happen by casual observation at a distance.
Incorrect, Mage Sight allows for answering at a glimpse and the idea that something like dissection is needed is a laugh.

>>43987677
>But if a mage is bothered by a group of hunters or pack of werewolves they can easily destroy them by turning their hearts to silver or some other power.
>>43987708
>Mage Sight allows for answering at a glimpse and the idea that something like dissection is needed is a laugh.

Did you actually ever read the Mage corebook or pay attention to any of Dave's spoilers?

Your understanding of the Mage setting, themes, mechanics, and actual power level and abilities of virtually all mages is so fanatically wrong that's it's both sad and shocking.

Mages are certainly at the high end of the nWOD splat power levels, but what you describe is just ludicrous.

>>43986943

The amount folks who would be interested in characters like Solomon Birch, Khonsou, The Nemean and The Chevalier Theleme vastly outnumber the folks who would like up to see Beckett and Smiling Jack one more time. Not saying they're not all cool characters, but them's facts.

>>43987628
Because they work like they're oWoD selves in this setting; crazy Hashashin blood-cultists who aren't really friendly with the Camarilla factions beyond the whole "hire me and I'll associate with you just long enough to kill my target" thing.

My guy is gonna be part of the coterie, not an outsider.

File: image.jpg (42KB, 236x357px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 236x357px

>>43987843
>Khonsou

?

File: ack.gif (4MB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 400x400px

>>43987815
>Your understanding of the Mage setting, themes, mechanics, and actual power level and abilities of virtually all mages is so fanatically wrong that's it's both sad and shocking.
You're an idiot. You think I'm attacking Mage so you're trying to defend it.

I was just giving an example of something you could do. You could just as easily shoot them with a slight bonus to your gun, or make them think they need to leave with a thought. The power level has nothing to do with anything. It's the fact that Mage is a great standalone game and, if forced to deal with other games, is still a great game without diluting itself by having to have special rules to allow others to "play fair".

>>43987925
>Khonsou?

Nope, too many fingers.

>>43987843
That's not factual at all, no one gives a shit about Solomon Birch or any of those nobodies.

>>43987612
>>43987615
Oh, that one. Yeah, that's good for Innocents inspiration, especially the first one with the teddy bear.

Of course, you can also just do "kids go to fantasy land and save the day" as well. Or play Stand By Me.

>>43987708
>>43987677
Ah, see, I thought this is what you were getting at. You're wrong, though. That's not how it works. Mage Sight is a microscope or a spectrometer. It helps you dissect things--scrutinize them--but it doesn't just outright tell you answers. Neither, really, does the practice of Unveiling.

Mages very much need to interact with things, if only to better scrutinize them and learn from them. They need to do field work as it were. They're also not capable of solving every problem instantly, either, as you seem to imply. They can't just turn a werewolf pack's hearts to silver. You seem to think that Mage is a game of playing God, staring at things, and then tapping your chin thoughtfully while you put a puzzle together. That's simply untrue.

>>43987843
I like nWoD, but that's bullshit and you know it. Beckett is getting a fiction book while most people don't even know nWoD has characters.

>>43987957
It's not about attacking or defending. You've misunderstood quite a bit. Whether you like the game you think Mage is or not doesn't matter, what matters is that we're trying to discuss a thing but we aren't all on the same page, and your page happens to be in a completely different book.

I mean, it's not really even a matter of Mage not "playing fair" with other splats. It's that you see Mage as a game that, frankly, is unbalanced. Not in that Mages are better than everything, but in that problems are solved so simply that they might as well not exist. You're talking about Mage as if it were a video game that gave you the ultimate weapon at level one, or is played with cheat codes on. That wouldn't at all be a fun experience. Mages still need to interact with the world--whether it's their own gameline's Mysteries or any other gameline's lower-case-m mysteries--as opposed to just staring at things and learning everything there is to learn, and when confronted by problems that would get in the way of their learning, they can't simply wave them off and dismiss them. And that's true whether the problem is a vampire, a werewolf pack, or even an Abyssal Intruder.

File: 1378956486708.jpg (76KB, 1002x652px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 1002x652px

>>43981160

>>43988075
>That's not how it works. Mage Sight is a microscope or a spectrometer. It helps you dissect things--scrutinize them--but it doesn't just outright tell you answers.
Jesus Christ that's what I fucking said you illiterate sack of shit. It shows you what's there and you have to figure the rest out yourself.

They do not have to interact, however, they can just observe.

>>43988106
>It's that you see Mage as a game that, frankly, is unbalanced.
I never said that. I suggest you learn to read if you're going to critique other peoples posts and try to guess what they're thinking. Maybe read past the first line of their post and don't jump to conclusions like some retard.

>>43988075
>Beckett is getting a fiction book while most people don't even know nWoD has characters.

You know, Beckett's relatively modern scientific skeptic views seem sort of out of place on a guy who was born before scientific skepticism and empirical truth even existed as philosophical concepts in Europe, and in fact wouldn't exist for centuries years AFTER his birth and transformation.

Especially since there's actually more evidence for "yep, it's fucking magic" then not in oWoD.

>>43988155
>I never said that.
Oh, so you didn't say
>it doesn't have to deal with the shit of other games, and if a DM forces it on you, you always have the upper hand.
While apparently referring to... well, challenges. Or even needing to be around things.

>>43988132
I mean, aren't you the one who said
>The fact that nothing requires you to touch or talk to any supernaturals to figure them out.
>They ain't scientists, they don't need to dissect shit, they can just look at them and see the Truth.
>the idea that something like dissection is needed is a laugh.
>You could just as easily shoot them with a slight bonus to your gun, or make them think they need to leave with a thought
Again, you're presenting a Mage where Mages are never in danger or need to interact with anything or have any problems.

That's the exact opposite of how Mage actually works, though.

>>43987843

Whoops, I wrote that wrong, I meant that to be "are vastly outnumbered by". Hopefully no one caught that bonehead typo and...

>>43987990
>>43988075
>>43988247

Well fuck, this is what I deserve for posting without thinking and revision. Yeah, I was trying to say I agreed, nWoD characters aren't anywhere near as popular as even the most obscure oWoD character.

>>43988279
>Again, you're presenting a Mage where Mages are never in danger
No.
>or need to interact with anything
I said they don't have to interact with other supernaturals or mortals.
>or have any problems.
I didn't say that, either.
Learn to read, seriously, it will help a lot.

>>43988279
>While apparently referring to... well, challenges. Or even needing to be around things.
It was referring to the other templates. Werewolves, vampires and the others. You don't HAVE to deal with them, and if a DM forces it on you, you can get rid of them easily.

>>43988409
shut up, amy

>>43988418
>Learn to read, seriously, it will help a lot.
How about instead of telling two or three people they need to learn to read, you take a second, think about what you're trying to say, and then say it clearly.

>>43988409
>Well fuck, this is what I deserve for posting without thinking and revision. Yeah, I was trying to say I agreed, nWoD characters aren't anywhere near as popular as even the most obscure oWoD character.

I wasn't saying I disliked Beckett.
I just think his whole focus and age is really weird when combined and seems more an example of White Wolf's thing where anyone and everyone is a thousand years old and shaped history personally and all that shit to artificially inflate their badassery like a WWE promo or something.

They should've just ran with the Vampire Indiana Jones thing and had him born in the late 19th century and have him adventure during the 30's and such until modern day, scientific skepticism at least existed back then.
If you need him to be more powerful just jack his Generation through the roof because reasons; it's not like he'd be anywhere near the most absurd character they made during the period.

>>43988510
I already did. You're just too busy jumping to the defense of Mage to bother understanding. Mage doesn't need any defense, shitbird, everyone knows it's the best game and the only people complaining about Quiescence are Mage fans who want more crossover, not an imaginary group of hunter fans.

>>43988552
Quiescence has fuck all to do with the notion that Mages don't need to interact with things to learn about them, or "can just turn a werewolf pack's hearts to silver or something".

>>43987879

Oh, this is pre Ur-Shulgi, then?

Why not a Tremere, with path of shadowcrafting or something?

>>43988733
Right, Quiescence is what the big argument over Mage is about and why dumbasses keep trying to defend Mage because they think whenever someone mentions Mage they're complaining about Quiescence.

And they could turn werewolf hearts to silver. It's much easier to shoot them, though. Though it helps no one gets supernatural resistance against Supernal magic.

>>43988846
I'm curious how you think that would even work.

>>43988846
>Though it helps no one gets supernatural resistance against Supernal magic.
They do when it's contested. Turn a heart into silver would probably be Withstood, though, yeah.

>>43988869
Step 1: Make silver bullets.
Step 2: Put bullets in gun.
Step 3: Shoot werewolf with magic to enhance aim or force or make self invisible.
Repeat Step 3 until werewolf is dead. It should only take one or two shots.

>>43988919
You're one of those people who always plays/runs or expects games with little to no consequence, aren't you?

>>43988846
>Though it helps no one gets supernatural resistance against Supernal magic.

Not always, and the new Withstood mechanics you're referring to often actually make spellcasting effects more difficult to achieve and still favor the inherent advantages and supernatural abilities of supernatural splats.

>>43989029
Actually I'm one of the few posters here to constantly bring up the necessity of consequence while others think it's just DM railroading when the FBI hunts their characters down because they used high grade explosives and flamethrowers to take out a vampire Elysium.

But being masters of preptime, when it comes to other templates Mages don't have anything to worry about.

>>43989029

I think he may be one of those "white room" guys that have more understanding of abstract theory and spreadsheets than the practical game rules and mechanics and actual role-playing.

>>43988826
>Oh, this is pre Ur-Shulgi, then?
I only vaguely recall that name.
As my earlier synopsis might have suggested we're dropping pretty much all of the original metaplot and using a mixture of both VtR and VtM, so assume aside from the rough outline nothing found in either game's backstory is true or even happened.
We have a mix of VtM and VtR Clans, and though we have the Generation mechanic it works more like Potency and if it's Cain vampires are descended from nobody has any idea, especially since bits of evidence suggest that certain bloodlines existed before "Cain" was apart of literally anyone's mythology at all.

I know in the setting that Brujah for instance aren't of Euroasian descent (assuming the First City was somewhere in the Middle East of course) and yet for some reason have an arbitrary restively modern Spanish name are called that because they were actually encountered in the New World by European vampire and have creepy Mesoamerican origins; the 9 Lords of Night in Aztec and Maya myths may have in fact been the original Brujah and the really old name for them is "Teo-micqui", which means "Divine/God-Dead".

>>43988919
Making yourself invisible wastes a turn, and Forces isn't going to help the fact that the werewolf can pinpoint you via smell. Casting a spell to improve your aim wastes another turn. Werewolves can apply Defense against Firearms in three out of five forms (including every form they'd be in if they expect a fight). Bite attacks in three out of five forms do not require a grapple to perform, and bite attacks in any form can A) inflict Agg damage and B) refill the werewolf's Essence pool at the werewolf's free option.

A Mage isn't necessarily fucked against a werewolf, but it's hardly a foregone conclusion that he's going to win either.

If the Werewolf has "the Other" as a Death Rage trigger, it'll go into Death Rage as soon as somebody casts a spell near it, at which point the poor Mage is completely fucked, though.

Basically the only way for a Mage to take down a Werewolf at that point is to be a Master of Life and hope they successfully Unmake the Werewolf in one spell.

>>43989059
>But being masters of preptime, when it comes to other templates Mages don't have anything to worry about.

I never understood why anyone accepted this premise. It's more like that without preparation time, mages often end-up as chunky salsa in most encounters. Most mages are also not master or adepts at many Arcana, and in practice, are not nearly as versatile against all types of threats as some suggest.

Further, with the end of near unlimited success rituals in 2e, the advantages of prep time are seriously diminished.

>>43987612
And here I thought you were talking about Clarissa Explains it All


Glad she never explained that.

>>43989059
>But being masters of preptime, when it comes to other templates Mages don't have anything to worry about.
You realize that the example victim you used, werewolves, are also a "master of preptime" splat in 2e, right?

They're all about the hunt. There's a hell of a lot of preparation that goes into a hunt before it's time to actually kill the prey.

The werewolves are going to be doing just as much prep as the mages are.

>>43989106

Smart and powerful mages are the ones that recognized early in their careers that encounters like close combat with werewolves are just plain stupid. The Arcana can be used just as readily, and often far more productively, to effectuate a quick and painless escape, err..., tactical retreat.

Prudent mages deal with rampaging lupines at a time, place, and manner of their choosing, and only after careful preparation.

>>43989069
What'd I tell you about learning to read before jumping to conclusions? Or did you just skip that like everything else?

>>43989106
You too.
>Making yourself invisible wastes a turn,
If you do it in the middle of a fight you're doing it wrong. You do it beforehand to guarantee your surprise attacks.
>and Forces isn't going to help the fact that the werewolf can pinpoint you via smell.
Which is why you use Forces to enhance your bullet. You use Mind for invisibility, because all senses rely on it.
>Casting a spell to improve your aim wastes another turn.
You're trying to chide someone else about consequences and you think Mages just rush into fights, THEN cast their prep spells?
>Werewolves can apply Defense against Firearms in three out of five forms (including every form they'd be in if they expect a fight).
Mages can push them out of their forms, and only werewolves with certain Gift facets can do anything about the surprise attack from an invisible opponent.
>Bite attacks in three out of five forms do not require a grapple to perform, and bite attacks in any form can A) inflict Agg damage and B) refill the werewolf's Essence pool at the werewolf's free option.
Werewolves don't have any real issue with Essence drain. But with your silver bullet you already knocked them half-dead, if you didn't kill them already. The werewolf isn't going to be winning.

>>43989106

>A Mage isn't necessarily fucked against a werewolf, but it's hardly a foregone conclusion that he's going to win either.
The way you play, yes, the Mage is fucked. Maybe if you start actually playing you'll get the hang of things.
>If the Werewolf has "the Other" as a Death Rage trigger, it'll go into Death Rage as soon as somebody casts a spell near it, at which point the poor Mage is completely fucked, though.
Only if its Harmony is really off kilter. And before a werewolf goes into full death rage, it goes into the Soft Rage.

>Basically the only way for a Mage to take down a Werewolf at that point is to be a Master of Life and hope they successfully Unmake the Werewolf in one spell.
Or just shoot them again. Silver bullets do automatically aggravated damage to werewolves, and through your invisibility you're able to make constant surprise attacks.

>>43989205
>You realize that the example victim you used, werewolves, are also a "master of preptime" splat in 2e, right?
I realize you don't know what you're talking about. The most they'd get is a hazy warning that a Mage might attack them in a couple days if they specifically ask for it.
>The werewolves are going to be doing just as much prep as the mages are.
Sure, against those Mages they aren't aware exist. Or are you playing with this guy >>43989106 and believe that before you attack someone you give them 72 hours warning and an address where it's going to take place, then don't use any magic until four rounds in?

>>43989101
Wait, so what's the explanation for the Mehket and the Lasombra having the same schtick then? Aren't they too similar?

>>43989241
>What'd I tell you about learning to read before jumping to conclusions? Or did you just skip that like everything else?

There is a sizable discrepancy between what you claim to know and do and what you actually write concerning Mage's setting and mechanics.

I'm starting to believe you might be trolling or just lack the capacity for self-reflection.

>>43989241
>Which is why you use Forces to enhance your bullet. You use Mind for invisibility, because all senses rely on it.
Remind me again which Path has Forces and Mind as Ruling? Werewolves also get pretty decent bonuses against mental influences, especially ones that try to prevent them from killing what they want to kill.
>Werewolves don't have any real issue with Essence drain. But with your silver bullet you already knocked them half-dead, if you didn't kill them already.
And you did this how exactly, with their defense score of like, eight, that they apply against firearms? What kind of chump werewolf doesn't have dots in Athletics?
>Mages can push them out of their forms
So your hypothetical Mage now has Forces 4, Life 4, Spirit 4, AND at least 2 dots in Mind (with enough potency to beat a werewolf's frankly-insane perception dicepools)?

>>43989279
From what she said to us, the same reason why people in Spain often had darker skin; migration of different peoples onto the Iberian Penninsula.
Presumably the Mehket came first in Egypt, and as the Moors or whoever took over Spain as well as Egypt the Mehket came with them and settled with whatever Kindred were in Iberia already and eventually the Lasombra happened.

>>43989101
>I only vaguely recall that name.

Assamite Methuselah that woke up near Gehenna and forced Assamites to stop worshipping Allah/God/Yahweh and just worry about killing and diablerizing for Hakim. He killed the leader of the Assamites who refused to renounce Islam, and caused a schism in the clan, with the schismatics joining the Camarilla and the loyalists - well, remaining loyal.

>>43989241
>Werewolves don't have any real issue with Essence drain.
That's not the point. The point is Werewolves have even easier access to Agg damage than Mages do.

>>43986374
Because the other fun part of Sleeper Hunters is when the fighting starts. Yes, the Mages will almost certainly wipe the floor with them but hopefully it will cause enough Paradox shit to go down that cool things like story ideas will be able to spring up from there.

Like having an Abyssal clone of that guy showing up a month after you kill him just doing what he did before.

>>43989241
>You use Mind for invisibility, because all senses rely on it.
And your "ignore me" Veiling spell isn't immediately broken by the fact that you're firing a fucking gun at the werewolf?

>>43989295
What it comes down to is you have nothing to add to a conversation but you're eager to connect to people so you argue. You know it's all possible. My example is just using Forces and Mind and there's a shitton of more creative ways to do these things.

But you don't need to. Because you don't need to fight werewolves to get answers to mysteries. This isn't Pathfinder, you don't get EXP for killing folks. Like Sherlock Holmes and Columbo, you solve mysteries by observation and dissecting those observations with the tools you have, which for Mages is magic. Trying to make up a white-room scenario to try and prove me wrong is beyond stupid.

>>43989305
>Remind me again which Path has Forces and Mind as Ruling?
Can you point me to the Open Dev blog where DaveB says you are now restricted to only learning the arcana of your Path? That's right, there isn't one.
>Werewolves also get pretty decent bonuses against mental influences, especially ones that try to prevent them from killing what they want to kill.
They only get bonuses during death rage, and only to make them break out of death rage, not to avoid it yourself.
>And you did this how exactly, with their defense score of like, eight, that they apply against firearms?
Well they likely don't have a Defense score of like, eight, especially against your surprise attack.
>What kind of chump werewolf doesn't have dots in Athletics?
The average werewolf. There's also the fact that Defense is based off the lower of Wits and Dex, not the highest, and your Wits aren't improved by going into death rage.
>So your hypothetical Mage now has Forces 4, Life 4, Spirit 4, AND at least 2 dots in Mind (with enough potency to beat a werewolf's frankly-insane perception dicepools)?
No, just Forces and Mind. He could do a lot more with Life and Spirit, though.

>>43989391
You think maybe we should use an automatic weapon? Just to get multiple shots and do it all in one round?

>>43989402
>No, just Forces and Mind. He could do a lot more with Life and Spirit, though.
how the hell do you force a werewolf into a specific form using Forces?

File: 857.jpg (30KB, 563x542px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 563x542px

Oh boy, it's a white room scenario discussion about which splat has the biggest dick.

>>43989359
Yeah, that sounds extremely metaplot-heavy and I always steered the fuck away from that shit.

>>43989305
You don't need anything more than Mind to make a werewolf shift, they shift automatically depending on their mood and that can be influenced with Mind.

>>43989402
Why is "the average werewolf" (who, for some baffling reason, has zero Athletics dots) suddenly fighting a triple Adept?

>>43989444

It's more interesting than "monolithic clan of killers" if you ask me.

>>43989450
>they shift automatically depending on their mood
[citation needed]

>>43989456
I don't know, it was your scenario. I was the one who said you didn't have to fight werewolves in the first place.

Also, double adept. Forces and Mind.

>>43989461
Page 96
When the character is stressed — during combat, a chase, or
when she feels threatened — she shifts one form towards an appro-
priate form each turn. The stress means she cannot resist. Her goal
form depends on what she wants to do: Running away uses Urhan,
hiding requires Hishu, while the need to fight forces her into Gauru.

>>43989241

A werewolf can ward an area to be pinged when a supernatural creature enters (up to 500 yard radius).

They also apply their defense to bullets in some forms. They also can interrupt an action in their wolf form (any of them) or using the Hit and Run facet. They can also smell you and hear you if you're simply invisible and not otherwise masked. impossible Spoor also allows them to sense (and track) people even through supernatural cloaking. They always know where you are if they manage to taste your blood. Hunters in Darkness only have to see you for one turn to no where all your safe places are. So basically, if you even manage to get one wolf by surprise, congrats. You're now in trouble.

So he interrupts your bullet. Bites you because he can sense you (potentially agg damage), and now he has you in a grapple. There's a million ways it can go down and your example relies entirely on the werewolf not knowing that he's at war with you. That only works once if you're lucky, and there is a whole pack.

>>43989479
>When the character is stressed — during combat, a chase, or
when she feels threatened — she shifts one form towards an appro-
priate form each turn. The stress means she cannot resist. Her goal
form depends on what she wants to do: Running away uses Urhan,
hiding requires Hishu, while the need to fight forces her into Gauru.

That's only if your harmony is out of whack. Like, extremely out of whack. Otherwise they just shift when they want to.

>>43989479
That's a werewolf with staggeringly low Harmony. A Werewolf with very high Harmony has difficulty shapeshifting at all. A werewolf with middling Harmony shapeshifts as though it was the most natural thing in the world.

I sincerely doubt that the inherent ability to shapeshift would be governed by Mind, any more than you could magically delete a Vampire's ability to inflict the Vinculum using Mind.

>>43989483
Mage Sight can see/help you avoid their ward.
>They also can interrupt an action in their wolf form (any of them) or using the Hit and Run facet.
They can only interrupt actions in the wolf form, and I already mentioned Hit and Run.
They can't smell you or hear you if you're invisible to the mind. Think obfuscate, not see-through. Spoor has to be activated first, if a Mage runs away then sure. Knowing where you are by a taste of your blood isn't going to help when they have two silver bullets that just killed them. Same with Hunter in Darkness ability.

> There's a million ways it can go down and your example relies entirely on the werewolf not knowing that he's at war with you. That only works once if you're lucky, and there is a whole pack.
Literally was not my example. But the example given was just one mage killing one werewolf in, probably, a white room.

>>43989515
>That's only if your harmony is out of whack. Like, extremely out of whack. Otherwise they just shift when they want to.
No. When a werewolf's Harmony is out of whack they HAVE to shift constantly. The automatic shifting is at any Harmony.
>A low-Harmony Uratha feels no pain. In fact, the change
brings with it a warm relief. The spirit-attuned Uratha feels
discomfort any time she spends more than a few hours in
one form, and every chance she has to shed a long-held form
is like a foot rub after a marathon, or a hot bath after a prize
fight. She must change shape at least once every scene. She can
spend Essence to avoid this shift, as long as she isn’t stressed.

>>43989059
>>43989069
>>43989152
People say Mages are Batman, but everyone forgets that Batman only works out because the writers will it.
Even if you assume Mages have unlimited power with infinite prep time... No one gets infinite prep time. A chronicle is not a Bethesda game. You don't get to just fuck off and do whatever you want while the Civil War and Alduin wait for you to progress the story on your own time. Shit happens whether you're prepared or not.

>>43989241
It's not that other people are jumping to conclusions, it's that you're wrong.
You're assuming Mages have infinite prep time, you're assuming they get the jump on the wolves, you're assuming the Mage has the specific Arcana at the specific levels you're suggesting, you're suggesting the werewolves are wholly ignorant, you're assuming just... a whole bunch of shit.
And why exactly is this Mage choosing to invisibly murder a werewolf (and, of course, it's never just A werewolf in the first place) in the first place? Why do you assume that the Mage will even last the turn to shoot again, considering werewolves can tank even the most devastating attacks?

>Mages can push them out of their forms, and only werewolves with certain Gift facets can do anything about the surprise attack from an invisible opponent.
Both of these are actually pretty dumb. I have no idea why you think Mages can just dictate what form a werewolf is in, and I don't know why you think the Hunter splat is incapable of dealing with an ambush.

>>43989402
>What it comes down to is you have nothing to add to a conversation but you're eager to connect to people so you argue.
What it comes down to is like six people telling you that you're full of shit and you refuse to acknowledge you're wrong. I mean, the situation is ridiculous in the first place, and has apparently gone from "poking your nose into things can get you killed" to "a very powerful mage that's a serial killer can murder a werewolf".

>>43989555
>Page 96
>When the character is stressed — during combat, a chase, or
>when she feels threatened — she shifts one form towards an appro-
>priate form each turn. The stress means she cannot resist. Her goal
>form depends on what she wants to do: Running away uses Urhan,
>hiding requires Hishu, while the need to fight forces her into Gauru.
This fucking paragraph is from the section on having low Harmony, you idiot. It's right after the one you just posted. They're both specifically regarding low-Harmony werewolves. The subject only changes back to "any Harmony" here:
>The exact mechanics of shapeshifting depend on a werewolf’s Harmony:

Note how it only mentions having to "avoid changing form" at low Harmony on the chart that's right fucking there, on the page you've been quoting?

>>43989402
>Well they likely don't have a Defense score of like, eight, especially against your surprise attack.
Just like your Mage doesn't likely have 3 dots in every Arcana, great gun skills, and a desire to murder werewolves.

Also, the average werewolf does indeed have dots in Athletics, and doesn't Werewolf wits get calculated by the higher of Dexterity or Wits? If not, I believe that's a change from 1e, or maybe it was a merit.

>Trying to make up a white-room scenario to try and prove me wrong is beyond stupid.
You're the one who's been doing that.

And you were also the one saying that Mages don't need to dissect anything, weren't you? >>43987137
>They ain't scientists, they don't need to dissect shit, they can just look at them and see the Truth.

>>43989555
>Spoor has to be activated first
No it doesn't.

Its second effect does but that one is not relevant here. So if you don't kill the werewolf in the first shot then you're in trouble. Your odds are just as good being a regular human being with a sniper rifle.

>When a werewolf's Harmony is out of whack they HAVE to shift constantly. The automatic shifting is at any Harmony.

Again, simply not true. Both instances refer to a low harmony werewolf. That's clear in the book.

>>43989437
>ow the hell do you force a werewolf into a specific form using Forces?

You ask very, very nicely. Forces should allow you to project your voice at a comfortable distance when making such an idiotic request.

>>43989441
>Oh boy, it's a white room scenario discussion about which splat has the biggest dick.

Yes, it is. I now miss the Quiescence discussion.

>>43989459
More interesting it may be, but if I buy a book with a story TOLD to me in it rather then one I get to help shape it had better be marketed as a novel, not an tabletop RPG book.
There's easier ways then metaplot to explain Assamites acting different; you just need to say something like
>"Yeah, that view of what Assamites are like is about as accurate as some people's views of Islam as being a monolithic faith of terrorists; pretty racist and mostly shaped by the white Europeans that make up the Camarilla. This is the real deal and the clan is much more complicated then that."

I think there will be some Assasmite who are free of the cult (who are just the "traditional" Assamites the same way traditional vampires tended to be Camarilla) but I frankly didn't particularly care for them one way or another, and didn't really like their powerset so much.

Weirdly, the we have original clan in this game that represent Asian vampires (I think the clan is actually called the Jiangshi) but they don't resemble the Kuei-jin in any way (I believe she said it was Potence, Dominate, and Auspex that were their Disciplines) partially because the Kuei-jin barely resembled any Asian vampire myths at all.

File: 876543215.jpg (56KB, 435x427px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 435x427px

>>43989441

>>43989587
>You're assuming Mages have infinite prep time, you're assuming they get the jump on the wolves, you're assuming the Mage has the specific Arcana at the specific levels you're suggesting, you're suggesting the werewolves are wholly ignorant, you're assuming just... a whole bunch of shit.
>And why exactly is this Mage choosing to invisibly murder a werewolf (and, of course, it's never just A werewolf in the first place) in the first place? Why do you assume that the Mage will even last the turn to shoot again, considering werewolves can tank even the most devastating attacks?
I wasn't given any more information on a scenario. I was told "how would a mage kill a werewolf"

And werewolves can't tank silver.

>>43989603
>This fucking paragraph is from the section on having low Harmony, you idiot. It's right after the one you just posted.
It's from the section on shapeshifting, you idiot. That's why it talks about high Harmony shifting too. You can check the writers comments on this on the board whenyou learn to read.

>>43989632
>You're the one who's been doing that.
Someone else made up the scenario, I just told you how it could pan out, if you're going to whine, whine to someone else.

Sure is a lot of imaginary dick-measuring going on in this thread.
I though folks like that stuck to d20 games where it's built for that stuff?

>>43989646

You just use the parts of the metaplot you want and disregard the others. The metaplot is just an idea bank for your own sessions, not a holy scripture.

I, for example, am using Dark Ages metaplot (the Ashirra) in an upcoming V:tM campaign set in modern times. Cause fuck it, it's cool.

>>43989673
It's cute that you think that.

>>43989664
>It's from the section on shapeshifting, you idiot.

I just want to reiterate that you're very wrong on this point. It's referring to low harmony werewolves. Read the whole passage for context and maybe that'll help you, but as it stands right now you're embarassing yourself. Thank God this is all anonymous so you can come back tomorrow and pretend this didn't happen to you specifically.

>>43989441
It's not really a wank versus wank fight. Werewolves win in direct fights, and Mages win in an indirect one.

>>43989479
>I don't know, it was your scenario.
No it wasn't.
>I was the one who said you didn't have to fight werewolves in the first place.
You said you don't even need to interact with them. But apparently that now includes murdering the shit out of them

And now you've got people explaining to you that you're wrong about how Werewolf works as well, since... that paragraph on page 96 is discussing low harmony Werewolves. I mean, I'm looking right at it.

At High Harmony, the Change feels painful. At medium Harmony, it's the welcome discomfort of inviting a new lover inside for the first time. At low Harmony (when you're closest to Spirit) the change feels good, and you have trouble not changing (and need to spend a point of Essence to not change when stressed).

>>43989643
>Yes, it is. I now miss the Quiescence discussion.
Nah. I love these. This guy is dumb as the sock of bricks someone clearly beat him with, but discussions like this help me understand the mechanics better. Teaching idiots is a good way to learn.

>>43989664
>It's from the section on shapeshifting, you idiot. That's why it talks about high Harmony shifting too. You can check the writers comments on this on the board whenyou learn to read.
Yes, and it discusses, in order: High-harmony Werewolves, then Mid-Harmony Werewolves, then Low-Harmony werewolves. Then there is a chart.

You are taking something from the part after the topic explicitly changes to low harmony werewolves
>A low-Harmony Uratha feels no pain.
but before it changes back to all discussing all three
>The exact mechanics of shapeshifting depend on a werewolf’s Harmony:
and claiming it applies to all three and not just low-Harmony werewolves.

>>43989664
>I wasn't given any more information on a scenario. I was told "how would a mage kill a werewolf"
The scenario in question is here: >>43988919
The total preparation done by this Mage is "make silver bullets, put bullets in gun, shoot werewolf with magic to enhance aim or forces to make self invisible". This plan is insane and suicidal, especially if (as it implies), the Mage is buffing himself after showing up to the fight.

>>43989771
>This plan is insane and suicidal, especially if (as it implies), the Mage is buffing himself after showing up to the fight.
I believe that was covered in the response, explaining that as a master of preptime, that was not the case.
>>43989724
Everyone automatically shifts based on stresses. If you choose not to read it that way for the sake of your argument thats your business.

>>43989664
>And werewolves can't tank silver.
Werewolves can have upwards of ten health levels. It's going to take more than one hit of anything to kill them.
Also, no one told you to do shit. We just said your "a Mage can turn a werewolf's heart into silver!" statement was bullshit, and you tried to go on about how now they're a serial killer. The original scenario was just, like... a discussion going south, or Werewolves protecting their territory.

Now the Mage is on the offensive in your mind, because "PREPTIME".

>You can check the writers comments on this on the board whenyou learn to read.
Share that, then. [citation needed].

>>43989673
What's weird is that this whole thing started when I pointed out he seems to think Mages can solve every problem, and if that were true they'd be boring. But apparently he wants boring Mages.
I know I don't.

>>43989707
Not the indirect one this guy is talking about. Although frankly "Indirect fight" is how Hunter's win. Although there it'd be something a lot more reasonable, like something from the Anarchist's Cookbook. Here it's an invisible guy stalking a (single) Werewolf and shooting him?

I don't even know.

>>43989718
>At medium Harmony, it's the welcome discomfort of inviting a new lover inside for the first time.
>Shapeshifting for ideal-harmony werewolves literally feels like getting their cherry popped

File: most curious.jpg (77KB, 637x685px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 637x685px

>>43989796

And how does that feel?

>>43989796
New lover implies they've had previous lovers.

It's more like an exhilarating one night stand with the hot guy/girl at the bar.

>>43989789
>Everyone automatically shifts based on stresses. If you choose not to read it that way for the sake of your argument thats your business.
Literally everyone else in this thread is telling you that you're reading it wrong, so unless you can provide a developer quote stating that your interpretation is the intended one, I'm going to have to assume that you are in fact the one who is reading it wrong.

Automatically shifting is specifically listed as one of the downsides of having low Harmony in the chart on the right side of the page. "Having to worry about shifting when you don't want to" is, notably, NOT listed under high or medium Harmony on the chart.

>>43989805
>Asking /tg/ what losing their virginity is like
Like a bag of sand?

>>43989815
Alright fine. Shapeshifting for ideal-harmony werewolves feels exactly like getting filled with a nice, attractive new dick.

>>43989794
Werewolves can have upwards of ten health levels

My starting Rahu had 11 (Giant!)

>>43989794
>Werewolves can have upwards of ten health levels.
Yes, in their killing forms.
>It's going to take more than one hit of anything to kill them.
Not a good shot at one in hishu.
>Also, no one told you to do shit.
You asked to explain how a mage could easily kill a werewolf.
>We just said your "a Mage can turn a werewolf's heart into silver!" statement was bullshit, and you tried to go on about how now they're a serial killer.
Nice strawman. No, I explained an easier method of killing a werewolf than turning their heart to silver.
>The original scenario was just, like... a discussion going south, or Werewolves protecting their territory.
This was never stated.
>Now the Mage is on the offensive in your mind, because "PREPTIME".
No, because I was asked how a mage would kill a werewolf.
>>43989818
>Literally everyone else in this thread is telling you that you're reading it wrong, so unless you can provide a developer quote stating that your interpretation is the intended one, I'm going to have to assume that you are in fact the one who is reading it wrong.
Actually there's just two or three, and they're solely using it to support their argument and, you know, are wrong.

>>43989846
>Yes, in their killing forms.

No, literally just standing around with their dicks in their hands in Hishu.

Add Purity to Health. Done.

>>43989821
A fleet horse?

>>43989679
I think the Ashirra were a thing in our setting too, basically the Islamic world equivalent of the Camarilla (with the Mehket, Assamites, and Daeva being the primary clans, as well as some Gangrel who showed up from the Eastern Europran steppe and Ravnos maybe), but like the Roman Camarilla it fell apart eventually as the Middle-East got messier and messier and cultural and religious division between younger Kindred and older Kindred as well as the political instability of the region made it hard to get anything done.

Right now it seems to be like this for our timeline;
>Vampires show at some point in Ancient Past, origins unknown.
>Vampires "evolve" into different strains of vampire all over the world, becoming the various versions of it we see in mythology today.
>Reqiuem version of the Camarilla happens and brings otherwise disparate versions of vampires across Europe together into one culture.
>Reqiuem Camarilla falls apart.
>Masquerade version of Dark Ages happens, the Ashirra show up in the Middle-East, Europe's a chaotic shithole free-for-all. The Sabbat show up.
>Masquerade Dark Ages ends with the re-establishment of the Camarilla as a looser, less organized version that has the different factions seen in Reqium in it to greater or larger degrees.

There might be the Anarch Free State too, but I'm not actually sure.

So, guys with the white room.

Since you believe a Werewolf only changes due to stress at Low Harmony, does your white room Werewolf have High or Medium Harmony?

>>43989858
You should probably leave out options only available to 1/5th of Werewolves.

>>43989846
>No, I explained an easier method of killing a werewolf than turning their heart to silver.
And your suggested method is fucking stupid and wouldn't work, which is why you keep increasing the Arcana available to the hypothetical Mage every time someone points this out, while leaving the werewolf at "starting werewolf".

>>43989846
Only some Werewolves institutionally change, and even then that doesn't mean they will turn into a form that will make them easier for the Mage to kill. A high Harmony Werewolf for example actually has trouble changing shape.

>>43989881
Can we go with Harmony 8 and The Other as a Death Rage trigger, so the Mage is extra fucked?

>>43989794
>Here it's an invisible guy stalking a (single) Werewolf and shooting him?

Obviously not the brightest bulb at the Consilium.

A Guardian or Arrow really needs to have a talk with him before he gets himself killed and needless starts a war.

>>43989881
Why? We're assuming your mage has all the tools he needs. Why would we invalidate Moon gifts? They are each a core part of an Uratha's ability.

>>43989815
Actually I was paraphrasing without looking at the text:
>A balanced-Harmony Uratha feels discomfort, but it’s a natural discomfort, like the first time she invited a lover inside her. It’s not ideal, but it’s right.
So this could be the first time.

>>43989832
https://youtu.be/NRd2gti9rHE

>>43989846
>Yes, in their killing forms.
Which they shift into immediately when they go into Death Rage, which they go into when they take Aggravated Damage.
>No, because I was asked how a mage would kill a werewolf.
No you weren't.
Also, it's not a strawman, you said that a Mage could turn a werewolf's heart into silver. You're the only one who brought up killing werewolves. you're the one who brought up werewolves in the first place. You're the one saying that Mages don't need to interact with shit, you're the one saying Mages can solve any problem simply. You're the one acting like they never need to bother with anything, and you're the one who started talking about killing fucking Werewolves.

Shit, this started when other people implied you actually might have to TALK to the Werewolf.

>Actually there's just two or three
There's at least fucking four, and YOU are the one who's wrong. Jesus titty flipping Christ. I know it's December, but you're celebrating Christmas a bit early.

>>43989881
The one doing White Room is the one assuming Mages can control every situation. We're just pointing out that he's wrong in understanding how Werewolves work.

>>43989883
Invisibility + silver bullets would work very well. In all the white room scenarios even humans fared well against werewolves when they had silver bullets.
Your complicating the matter by pretending that the character isn't turning invisible or using their magic to enhance their attacks until after combat started and the werewolf is in gauru form is what isn't working.

>>43989896
Sure. He shoots twice. Werewolf is dead.

>>43989794
A Mage probably could turn a werewolf's heart into silver, it'd just be a needlessly fancy way of Unmaking them.

>>43989918
>Why? We're assuming your mage has all the tools he needs.
Not him. But you are acting as if him having dots in more than one Arcana is unheard of.

>>43989931
>and the werewolf is in gauru form
This is in fact what happens when a werewolf takes Agg damage.

>>43989925
>The one doing White Room is the one assuming Mages can control every situation. We're just pointing out that he's wrong in understanding how Werewolves work.
He never said that. In fact, when someone (presumably you) said that he was, he pointed out that wasn't the case.

I'm guessing you're butthurt because he called you names earlier so now you're trying to pick apart the white room you suggested?

And, since you're pdfanon, you're going to pretend that that wasn't you posting earlier and you just came in.

>>43989673

The secret metagame to WoD Games is figuring out which splat can actually totally kill all the other splats, and then complain about that.

>>43989950
It's not, but I mean I've already used a bunch of other facets that help with the scenario and he just ignores it, so I'm just saying. Why not Rahu? That's the fighter one. It's a "fight."

>>43989278
>And before a werewolf goes into full death rage, it goes into the Soft Rage.
Read the whole thing, it's pretty important:
>He remains in Wasu-Im for a length of time determined by his Harmony (see p. 105). If he hasn’t pulled himself out of it, he enters Basu-Im. Alternatively, he can enter Basu-Im voluntarily at any time during Wasu-Im.

They're only in soft rage if they actively want to not be raging. "At any time" can in fact mean "immediately".

>>43989925
>Which they shift into immediately when they go into Death Rage, which they go into when they take Aggravated Damage.
When a werewolf faces their trigger, first they go into wasu-im. They turn dalu, or urshul (if in wolf form).

>>43989950
>But you are acting as if him having dots in more than one Arcana is unheard of.

The theoretical mage appears to be at least a multiple degree adept or master, with a lot of other Arcana dots. He's certainly not an "average" mage.

>>43989907
He's a serial killer. He wants a Werewolf pelt. Maybe it's a Banisher? "All this supernatural shit is bad for the environment".

>>43989937
It'd require damned near Mastery in at least Spirit, Life, and Matter.

>>43989950
Well he's kind of assuming that any old average mage has the dots necessary for this. This isn't really "here's how ANY Mage could Kill A Werewolf For Some Reason", it's how one specific Mage could.

A werewolf killed his parents.

>>43989931
I'm curious how he pulls the trigger the second time.

>>43989967
>He never said that.
Yes he did. And no one suggested this white room. He made it up and then goes "well I'm just going with what I was told". The entire conceit of the white room is that Mages have all the preptime ever and can control the situation so that the Mage has the upper hand and can kill this one solitary lone Werewolf.

>And, since you're pdfanon, you're going to pretend that that wasn't you posting earlier and you just came in.
Fuck no. I told him he was an idiot back before this even started.

>>43989984
Yeah they can just ignore soft rage if they want and go straight into the real shit. Soft rage is them trying to resist.

>>43989980
>They're only in soft rage if they actively want to not be raging. "
So you say the werewolf goes into gauru and takes death rage? Then mage just holds his invisibility until it runs out, the werewolf passes out, and gets executed via a bullet to the head.

>>43989984
...Unless they voluntarily go into hard rage. Which, if they're being attacked with fucking silver, they probably will.

I've gotten some inside info that there's been a lot more changes to the nWoD core than we might have thought. They've completely redone vehicles and there's been some tweaks to how Structure is calculated.

>>43990006
Impossible spoor. Werewolf doesn't need sight to fight.