Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>43646279
>Rubberskin, for example, converts all bludgeoning damage taken into nonlethal.

After a couple minutes that means she'll be passed out and taking lethal.

Plus I'm fairly sure that would count as piercing damage since you're perforating shit, rather than bruising it.

File: 1434240331126.jpg (177KB, 900x819px) Image search: [Google]

177KB, 900x819px

>That one custom spell you wish you didn't find in your party's wizard's spellbook.

>>43646368
gotta love heroes who die, get back up, tell the bbeg "fuck you", then die again.

>>43646408

>Backhair remover

>>43646368
Fuck yeah Mythic Epic Psychic Armory Soulknife

File: 1440977895148.jpg (243KB, 820x820px) Image search: [Google]

243KB, 820x820px

>>43646062
>>43646115
>is it worth playing a bloodrager?

>tell me about your bloodrager

>also, how is the black blood bloodline?

>seems fun from a flavor perspective but I'm not sure how good it actually is to play

>>43646413
"Iron Heart Surge, bitch!"

Re-asking a question from last thread, because I thought it was interesting.

What would you think half-Proteans, Half-Inevitables/Axiomites, and Half-Aeons would be like as a player race?

>>43646438

Nah, make him a Living Legend. The Champion path gets to turn their mind blade into a melee weapon, and change what weapon it is 1/round as a free action.

>>43646408
>Arcolomen's Autoerotic Asphyxiator
>Barrelo's Bush Beautifier

>>43646444
Probably as Mary Sue prone as Teethling and Ass Mart.

>>43646444
that'd require fucking one i'd think.

>>43646444
>Half-(outsider) as a player race
Those aren't races. Those are templates.

>>43646368
HO
HEROS
META
CHJLJ
ON
PROS-
OPON

wat

What is the best tier 3 class, and why is Inquisitor?

>>43646464
the latter would fall simply into prestidigitation though.

Aight /pfg/, three nights and nearly a dozen threads ago we started making a dosh discipline. Did any anons kept going with it or did we just let it die? Did either of the economist anons reported in?

>>43646478
spell incantations in negima ranged from various languages to poems or physical actions--jack was a martian (as in literally lives on mars), so could easily be speaking that, or some earth language that was poorly translated.

>>43646489
That only works on the willing.

>>43646503
As the Anon who first mentioned the idea of an appraise based discipline, I'd like to hear that too.

>>43646478
"Ho Heroes Meta Chilion Prosopon" or "The Hero Of a Thousand Faces."

No idea what language it's from; it's not Latin at least, I think. No idea what happened with that translation.

In any case, it's a shapeshifting weapon that can become anything he wants it to be, up to and including endless gigantic swords to mechanized power armor replacement limbs

>>43646408
>Open Wizard's spellbook
>One page is just filled with your name with hearts on it.
>The page before it is dominate person
>The page after it is permanency

>>43646478
>>43646511
I think that is greek. According to the wiki it says:
HO HEROS META CHILION PROSOPON
The translation is right in the filename:
HERO OF A THOUSAND FACES

>>43646408
>Implant Thoughts
>can never be sure that my thoughts are my own again

>>43646408
>Invisible Explosive Runes
>Described as exploding when looked at. Even if it can't actually be seen.
>The next page is blank.

File: 1442507782905.jpg (210KB, 686x441px) Image search: [Google]

210KB, 686x441px

>>43646564

>tfw you will never play a quiet bookish type that writes filthy fan-fiction about the other party members

Anyone else guilty of shipping characters in real life?

>>43646694
I'm in my first party where I'm NOT doing that.

>>43646713

Got any juicy details?

>>43646694
Does it count if the character ship started out as a joke in chargen, then became a semi-official couple?

>>43646694
>Shy as fuck CHA 7 Wizard has more protections on an unlabeled otherwise mundane book than her spellbook
>Writing in it all the time, refuses to let anyone see the contents at all
>Enemy agents steal it, thinking it must be of extreme value
>Break through all the magical barriers on it
>it's a really long ship of the Paladin and the Barbarian, both of which are extremely burly men

>>43646746
The title is "Lay On Hands"

>>43646746
>BBEG refuses to reveal himself after his agents find this out for he is also a burly man.

>>43646746
Some kind of fujomancer.

>>43646520
Hunting the old threads I think it died out. Pity. If Enomonics anon had made his up sell and down sell stuff I could have gone forward, but with only me it would end up just being a joke discipline.

At least I can work my grapple discipline by myself.

>>43646759

Puts a whole new meaning to the term "raging erection."

>>43646759
I'd read it.

>>43646773
Wizard Scries him anyway. Second journal is titled "Touch of Corruption", and is Paladin x BBEG

>>43646793
Well, Antipaladin or not, opposites attract.

>>43646741

Depends on the circumstances, what were the characters and how did they become semi-official?

>>43646444
Half aeons would spend their existence hiding from the murder-squads that purge aeons that develop individuality.

>>43646839
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>43646788
If only I was an economics major...and knew how to design balanced options.

How is your grapple discipline comming along?

Rate my character:
>Savage technology + True Primitive barbarian/Dark Tapestry + Friendless Oracle
>Div tiefling
>Basically a hardened "No Country For Old Men" gungslinger with a weird west flavor. Powerful unlikeable because of the friendless curse, prone to fits of anger, and fueled by powers he doesn't understand
>Was a true primitive because their fetishes feel really occult
>Like true primitive because illiteracy makes sense when your parents throw you out because you come out a tiefling
>Barbarian for the rage
>Dark tapestry because it feels occult
I basically tried to make the least coherent character build for a coherent character concept. The game is a bit weird-west in feel.

>>43646803
It is a very long story, probably. The tl;dr on it is that one character was a very rich, very bored girl who idolized mages. The other character was a half-kitsune cat-burglar who robbed her (and was later tracked down and accidentally blackmailed into joining our mercenary squad, because my character, the rich girl, was somewhere between a crush and a "she's SO COOL.")

It was the other player who suggested it go romantically instead of just the latter. They eventually got together. Or would have, if the game didn't die.

>>43646849
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/aeon

>Without culture, society, or even memory beyond the immediate needs of the multiverse, they build no relationships and, in general, have no personalities beyond an automatonlike directness.
>....

>In rare cases, aeons have been known to deviate from the whims of the multiverse. Such rogue aeons typically arise from interacting with other races excessively, living beyond their intended times, being exposed to unusual ideas, or being forced to perform acts they otherwise wouldn’t contemplate. These aeons typically take on extreme personalities, coming to favor one aspect of their being over the other—an akhana is just as likely to become an artist of life as a mass murderer. Normal aeons perceive their rogue brethren as high-priority disturbances in the balance of the multiverse and seek the destruction of such rarities with all haste.

tl;dr if you waifu it, it probably gets killed

>>43646871
Pretty good. Already have the stances and most strikes. I'm having a small dificulty on counters and boosts.

It helped a lot when I decided to steal the shit out of the Flowing Monk and Tetori monk archetypes.

I'm thinking of stealing Meteoric throw from Broken Blade and making an 'one inch punch maneuver' for it in exchange.

I'm also trying to do a bit where, if you have a piece of rope or chain or a weapon like a whip or net or stuff like that, you can use it to add an effect to certain maneuvers, like entangling an enemy, stopping him from moving away or doing a free Dirty Trick.

Does shooting a one-handed firearm provoke AoOs? Don't seem to see it on the firearms page.

>>43647085

Yes. It's a ranged attack.

>>43647085

By default, any ranged attack does.

>>43647093
Thanks.

Is there any way to not provoke? PoW material allowed.

>>43647048
May I suggest some maneuvers involving oil?
You know, for oil wrestling.

>>43647107

Point Blank Master. That one privateer ploy that lets you treat it as melee if you shoot someone next to you, iirc.

>>43647107
There's plenty of ways, even in 1pp

File: 1426544548819.gif (3MB, 460x193px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 460x193px

What does /pfg/ think about combat maneuvers on a magus? Considering a dirty trick or trip build.

>>43647107

The feat Sword and Pistol is another option, though >>43647119 is simpler. I think there's a deed that grants this, too, though the name escapes me.

anybody got a PDF of the new Occult book, Occult Realms?

>>43647183
Deft shootist. It takes a couple of feats to get, and you have worse problems if you are provoking from anything.

>>43647183
I don't think it'd be the worst. The Arcane Accuracy Arcana would help out with getting 'em to work.

>>43647269

If I'm reading everything correctly, you could use Spell Combat with either maneuver, though you might need Quick Dirty Trick. Casting True Strike before you made the attempt would be pretty brutal even with the ridiculous CMDs at higher levels.

>>43647119
>>43647165
>>43647183

Thanks. Basically I'm allowing a new player into my campaign where PoW is allowed but I don't want to overwhelm him with maneuvers and initiating yet, so he's playing Unchained Rogue and I'm giving him some free non-maneuver stuff from Privateer to hopefully offset it.

I don't think he'll get outclassed particularly much: our party is a very unoptimised warlord, a fairly optimised unchained monk, a mid-optimised magus, and a mid-optimised polymath

>>43647330
Unchained Rogue is pretty decent anyway. Might I recommend porting in the Craven feat from 3.5, though, if you want to give him a nice buff?

http://dndtools.pw/feats/champions-of-ruin--27/craven--484/

>>43646444
>half inevitable
>get a bunch of cybernetic parts and shit, look really handsome in an ancient Greek way but kind of unnerving because of how muted their facial expressions are
>+2 CON +2 INT -2 CHA
>racial traits let them have a built in weapon that can pop out whenever
>racial feats can give them certain spell-Luke abilities like Geas

>half protean
>gets the snake torso like a naga, they look really deformed otherwise and body parts sometimes shift around slightly
>+2 CHA +2 DEX -2 WIS
>racial traits let them roll to mutate for benefits or disadvantages
>racial feats let them make those voidwave things the one kind of protean can make

>half aeon
>look the weirdest, have weird galaxy parts, strange looking skin, and three fingered hands
>+2 WIS +2 STR -2 CHA
>racial traits let them take on two spell like abilities that oppose each other (detect evil/detect good, magic missilestone skin, etc)
>racial feats let them take on an ability of another aeon

>>43647353

There's already a trait for that:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/blade-of-the-society-rogue-pathfinder-society

Plus he still gets a second trait this way.

>>43647112
I'm open to suggestions.

My first thought is a boost that allows you to oil up as a swift action. Maybe also allow using magical oils as a swift action.

And I can add some lines to the fisrt level stance that boosts Escape Artist, so the character can get extra benefits from being oiled up on on the area of Grease spell.

>>43647353
That might work. What I'm doing (with his consent) is just choosing all the feats and talents to fit the stuff he wants (sword and pistol twf).

The privateer ploy is nice since it adds one extra attack per full attack, but I wonder if I should instead give him the TWF line and homebrew a feat/class feature to just have him not provoke from his target when using a gun, so he can full attack with a pistol point-blank if he wants.

I'm trying to figure out ability score priorities for a Fiendbound Marauder, can anyone help me out? I can't tell if int is more or less important, particularly for a grappler, since you get your int modifier to cmb instead of reflex/initiative. Would it be better off with a dex build? Since you lose clad in steel too, you're not going to be that much more effective in plate than say, a breastplate.

>>43647379
blade of the society can't dream of comparing to craven.

>>43647379
>You get a +1 trait bonus on sneak attack

Um. Go reread the feat.

Anybody got some decent Changeling art? Gonna build one soon and need inspiration.

File: PF Changeling.jpg (52KB, 633x992px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 633x992px

>>43647450
What class?

File: wut11.png (69KB, 510x284px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 510x284px

>>43647433
>>43647438

Oh shit, I didn't see that second line. That's incredibly good, especially considering how many ways there are to boost fear saves.

File: PF Changeling 1.jpg (80KB, 737x1124px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 737x1124px

>>43647478

>>43647386
That sounds pretty great actually.

Was always kinda miffed that I was not really able to play the oiled up bro-wrestler I always wanted.

That said I am most likely not the best source of suggestions, I know shit about game balance.

>>43647486

Yeah. It's pretty much the only thing that kept rogues in 3.5 anywhere near worthwhile damage dealers.

File: 1442367663052.jpg (100KB, 552x1016px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 552x1016px

>>43647513
Captcha loves soup tonight.

>>43647478
Mesmerist, actually! While I understand the Occult classes aren't well-liked here, I love the mechanics, and since the focus is on the eyes and Changelings are known for heterochromia...

>"If you don't want the Hags to control your fate, then don't let them! Put yourself in charge! Of yourself. Of /everyone," said her ambiguously sinister mentor.

File: 1396724609047.jpg (46KB, 514x900px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 514x900px

>>43647534

File: changeling%20occultist%20color_Ryan%20Rhodes.jpg (26KB, 450x599px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 450x599px

>>43647563

>>43647540
That makes it pretty easy, then.

>>43647530
Scout/Rogue/Totemist with Swift Ambusher/Manticore Belt.

Just saying.

File: changeling_witch_by_andrewdefelice-d6hplu1.jpg (200KB, 1024x1463px) Image search: [Google]

200KB, 1024x1463px

>>43647579

File: 1417560661019.jpg (48KB, 465x700px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 465x700px

>>43647597

>>43647592

And then the Rules Compendium comes into play and makes you sad like I was.

File: 1436210039754.jpg (50KB, 638x877px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 638x877px

>>43647622

File: game_over___mathilda__la_sorciere_by_wildschweinmama-d72j712.png (1MB, 900x1504px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 900x1504px

>>43647644
This one looks pretty mesmerist. Don't know about it fitting the "decent art" criteria though.

>>43647637
Nah, there's a well-established build on the old CO boards that uses that trick for maximum output. It got around the RC nerfs, don't remember how exactly.

File: 1395876703541.jpg (359KB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

359KB, 1600x1200px

>>43647668

>>43647670
I recall it, and it still ran into the same issue. The RC nerfs to sneak attack were disgusting, and multi-layered.

The only way around it is to ignore the book as irrelevant by citing the errata rules on primary sources, which negates the book in its entirety, as the primary source is the core book, which is only superseded by errata.

Everything in the RC is awful except for wand cast times, though, so it's no great loss.

>>43647699
Really? Is that how the Chaingun Porcupine got by it, by just chunking the whole book?

I mean, I don't mind chunking the RC, it was shit.

File: KoFKyoXIIIWin.png (348KB, 728x652px) Image search: [Google]

348KB, 728x652px

So I want to build a punch magus, but esoteric is pretty shitty. Is there an alternative, or should I just try to homebrew some fixes to the archetype so I can live my dream of ripping off fighting game characters?

>>43647720
iirc that's the only way. I may be wrong, but then, so might they have. There's two nerfs in the RC, the second of which I'd need to go find but I honestly don't want to touch that godawful thing.

>players meet the chieftain of a hill giant tribe
>tribe is essentially a nomadic mercenary company, following wars to keep themselves fed and comfortable
>learn some of his titles
>do a few missions with him, hired just the chieftain at one point
>learn about the battles he earned his titles in (Being Hewar the Clever and Hewar the Butcher)
>took command during a protracted siege of a fortified hobgoblin city
>forced captured hobgoblins from previous cities meant to build a stage in front of the town
>each hour he personally cut off a hobgoblin's head in sight of the gates
>had a hill giant shotput the head into the city
>put the bodies in a massive pile in sight of the walls but out of firing range
>begins launching the bodies, once they rot and bloat, into the city to cause plague
>sends a message saying that if the city surrenders noncombatants will be spared, but if he runs out of hobgoblins to execute then he will kill everyone in the walls
>knows the hobgoblins are waiting for reinforcements, and allows a messenger through
>lays an ambush for reinforcements
>captures a group of them
>just when the hobgoblins thought help was coming, bring out commander of the reinforcements to execute, throwing morale through the floor
>sends a few hobgoblins to the gates (they're his messengers)
>makes sure they spread the word about noncombatants being spared
>eventually the gates are opened by an angry mob of staring hobgoblins
>he keeps his word, killing all combatants, but also ransacks the city and burns it to the ground before leaving
>players are unsure how to take this
How would your PCs take this information?

>>43647734
Try a Mystic.

File: King in training mode.gif (3MB, 230x130px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 230x130px

>>43647734
I know you're pain all to well friend

can someone explain to me really quickly how traits work? I pick two, but not from the same group, right?

>>43647386
Yeah, I like this. Changing the first level stance from something bland to

Mudwrestler Experience: Scaling bonus to Escape Artist and to Acrobatics to avoid falling in slick or icy terrains, add initiator mod to CMD if oiled up or covered in a Grease spell. At level 8 can always take ten on those Acrobatic checks and when oiled gain bonus to ref saves versus entanglement and something else. At level 16 never treat slick terrains as difficult terrains, if oiled up gain bonus to AC against ranged attacks, if oiled up or on slick terrain can skate ten feet when taking five foot step. Being oiled up takes a standard action applying oil or grease. Being oiled gives a -2 penalty aginst pit traps and spells and aggainst fire effects and spells.

>>43647734

There's a magus arcana that allows you to use spell combat with natural attacks:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/magus-arcana/paizo---magus-arcana/natural-spell-combat-ex

I didn't know you couldn't before then, but it's in keeping with nearly every magus arcana available below level 9 being complete garbage.

File: wutanime.jpg (29KB, 640x512px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 640x512px

>>43647778

>>43647780
Yes. You can also take drawbacks to gain more Traits.

>>43647790
Neat, I like it.

>>43647755
They'd ask what his share of the booty was, and if they can either join up or hire him depending on their level.

File: but I didn't die though it was a joke.gif (1MB, 499x281px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 499x281px

>>43647682
>>43647668
Thanks, guys! In exchange, have an Iron Heart Surge.

File: King vs Eddy.gif (2MB, 172x97px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 172x97px

>>43647805
Guin Saga

>>43647816
The players have actually hired him before, as for share of the booty for that particular instance he and his tribe walked away with everything they and their slaves could carry.

>>43647780
it seems to be an assumption of the community that yes, you do, and if your GM permits, you can also take a Drawback, which earns you another trait. remember, trait bonuses don't stack, like most other kinds of bonuses

>>43647755
Offer advice on how to make his next siege more efficient.

thoughts on leadership and how strong it is?
personally i think it's super easy to regulate how strong it becomes but i hear people complain about it a lot

>>43647944
It's basically a second PC.

>>43647944
It can be easily abused for a number of reasons, and essentially gives charisma based characters, if allowed to take it, a character 2 levels lower than themselves that they control and numerous workers.

It's proportionally more powerful than nearly all other feats.

File: 1438453751491.jpg (114KB, 488x736px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 488x736px

>>43646439
okay well

someone in the last thread convinced me to play a halfling destined bloodrager, so what would the ideal stat priority be for that?

I'm not really looking to deal a ton of damage or anything, we have other people for that, but I'd like to be as resilient as possible

>>43647968
>>43647967
the PC class is only as strong as you let it be, I would never allow a player to build their companion, i would designate them a N(PC) that i built, if i give them a 10 int wizard hes garbage anyway so i dont see the issue really

>>43647981
>HELP, I'M UNCONTROLLABLY VOMITING RAINBOWS

>>43647865

It's stated in the rules:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits#TOC-Gaining-Traits

>In most cases, a new PC should gain two traits, effectively gaining what amounts to a bonus feat at character creation.

>To begin with, your GM controls how many bonus traits a PC begins with; the default assumption is two traits.

>>43647944
It's powerful and adds a great deal of complexity to the game. 3.whatever doesn't scale well with complexity starting at levels not much higher than when Leadership comes online.

File: KoFKyoHB.jpg (96KB, 652x1024px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 652x1024px

>>43647760
>>43647778
>>43647792
The more I look at the archetype, the more I feel like it would be so easy to fix it. Offhand, remove dimished casting, give it canny dodge at level 1 like the Kensai, then replace the shitty +1 AC that replaces medium armor training with an alteration to unarmed that makes your unarmed strikes have a crit range of 18-20/2x, and the heavy armor training is now replaced with the ability to flurry like a monk. Hell, that all doesn't even have to be in that order, you could make it have the crit range at level 1, canny dodge at 7, flurry at 13, or some other bizarre mixture.

It would probably be far easier to just find a different class, but my nigh-autistic desire to fix things with cool concepts that are terrible demands I at least try.

>>43647809
Thanks, I also have a boost that allows you to bounce or climb the scenery before attacking, for that old WWE feel of climbing the ropes for a slam.

I've also got Atomic Suplex, Spinning Piledriver, Giant Swing, Hammer Throw, Head Scissors, Muscle Buster, Limb Lock and Spine Breaker for strikes and Full Body Bone Crushing Hold for the 9th level maneuver. The disc is half WWE wrestling and half anime Jiu Jitsu/wuxia Tai Chi.

>>43647989
The thing is, how do you justify this?

Lets say I'm a PC. I'm going to try and recruit my follower. I find a wizard, he can't cast spells. Therefore I DON'T recruit him. Unless he is literally the only person willing to be my cohort then that is against the leadership feat itself.

Basically, why would I recruit someone who is garbage? I'd keep looking for someone till I found someone who wasn't a complete fuck up. Then I have at least an average character two levels below me.

Basically, yes, if you forcibly give them a garbage companion then it's not powerful, or make their followers all literal retards. However, that's not what the feat, by it's rules, does.

>>43648007
it's stated as the default assumption, and I did indeed say "it seems to be the assumption of the community", but thanks for the source on that.

>>43648046
when in the feat does it say "recruit"
you could have someone join your party the same way anyone else in your party joined, it's a PC and should be treated as if there was a player behind it, there has to be a reason the person is with you other than "he has the leadership feat"

>>43647989
Or you could just say no to the leadership feat.

Do you guys think Leadership would be better if it was split into two feats? One for the cohort, one for the followers?

>>43647981
Take the Steelblood archetype, it combines well with destined.

>>43648075
you're acting like that's the better option
I dont see why you crush creativity and choices when you could just tweak a feat in a minor fashion to give it similar strength to an animal companion etc

>>43648067
>there has to be a reason the person is with you other than "he has the leadership feat"
But that's the exact reason why the npc is there.

>>43648067
The wording it uses is "attract", when gaining the leadership feat you begin trying to attract cohorts/followers.

Basically, if I took the leadership feat and was given a garbage companion I'd simply get rid of him. I have no reason to keep dead weight around. In addition, a cohort is supposed to be under the control of the person with the feat, in that he is a "devoted subordinate and supporter". If he is useless to me, I send him away.

>>43648089
Followers aren't the problem, the cohort is. Followers are just labor.

>>43648114
Having an animal companion for the price of a feat is far too strong.

In addition what he is doing is not crushing the character's creativity, it's spitting in the character's face. He's saying it is impossible to recruit someone of any competency.

>>43648033
Please anon I can only get so erect.

I hope you share the disc once you are done?

>>43648114
I think just saying no to the feat is better than give the player a gimped companion such as a wizard with only 10 int.

>>43648067
>there has to be a reason the person is with you other than "he has the leadership feat"
Except that isn't true, he appeared because the person took the leadership feat. If he was going to appear anyway, then why have the feat?

>>43648089

I'm not sure why these options need to be in the game at all. You can already play a character with a familiar/companion if you want to act for two. Letting someone recursively control a party just adds complexity and gives that character lots of options the other
characters don't get unless they take Leadership as well.

The feat basically turns D&D into a quasi-wargame for one person, and that's a complete pain in the ass for the DM and other players alike even if they don't go out of their way to abuse it.

>>43648108
I'm not quite sure I want him wearing heavy armor, wouldn't a halfling be more suited to focus on avoiding damage rather than eating it?

>>43648158
The Steelblood might wear heavy armor but it is more about avoiding damage than tanking, just read the abilities.

>>43648146
>>43648116
this game isnt a combat simulator
when someone takes the leadership feat it changes the narative, it introduces another character and as a DM you should have an actual reason why he came, specifically because a player class 2 levels below you is a strong person and could easily live and adventure on their own
>>43648141
that was an example of how easy it is to gimp the feat not what you would actually do
>>43648126
you dont give them someone useless you just dont give them a tier 1 class with great stats
in the real world i imagine itd be hard to find adventurers with min maxed stats

>>43648122
Here we go.

"Your reputation (from the point of view of the cohort or follower you are trying to attract) raises or lowers your Leadership score"

This implies that you are actively finding a person and attempting to get them to join you. Some random bumpkin doesn't just show up and say "I'M GONNA FOLLOW YOU NOW"

>>43648128
I intend to. Here, Paizo and maybe even finally make a GitP account.
I still have too leave my caveman ways and learn to use google docs.

>>43648213
Google docs is not that hard, I'm sure you will manage.

Looking forward to it anyways.

>>43648192
>you dont give them someone useless you just dont give them a tier 1 class with great stats
in the real world i imagine itd be hard to find adventurers with min maxed stats
The feat implies I am actively looking for them. I'm going to keep going till I find someone decent. Once I do, the feat becomes broken. The only way the feat isn't broken is if the cohort is garbage. If they're garbage then there is no reason for me the take the feat.

I wouldn't just let anyone join me as my cohort, the PC makes that choice, not the DM (by what the feat implies).

>>43648213
It's seriously just 'make file'

'put things in file'

>>43648192
>when someone takes the leadership feat it changes the narative, it introduces another character and as a DM you should have an actual reason why he came, specifically because a player class 2 levels below you is a strong person and could easily live and adventure on their own
Sure, that's nice and all, but as the PC if I have no reason to make them my cohort I'm not going to. You introduce a character, I don't approve of him as my cohort, therefore we have another NPC following around the party. I go out and search for someone complimentary to my skill set.

>>43648232
so you're gonna spend months after leveling finding your cohort?
I don't see how a quest that long doesnt deserve a good reward

>>43648255
Ok, cool, now the feat is broken. Good job, this doesn't fixes anything.

>>43648255
That's what the feat makes you do REGARDLESS. You have to seek out followers and cohorts and "attract" them. You making that arbitrarily long does nothing for balancing the feat.

>>43648275
sorry what?
you spent a feat and months of in game time questing for a cohort, now you have a fifth party member and i can just balance the encounters for 5 people instead of 4
literally who cares

Can a Mystic spend their Animus on a Counter?
Example: Using 'Enhance Maneuver' to get a extra +2 to out of the Inner Sense Counter from the Veiled Moon Discipline.

>>43648284
its the same as running a game for 5 people instead of 4
just increase the difficulty and the feat becomes literally nothing but doesnt feel useless and theres a sense of accomplishment

>>43648285
It gives me, as the player, because I now control two characters is roughly equal power, a major advantage over my fellow party members. It also implies that in your games the world automatically scales to however many people are there, yet you yourself professed that it wasn't a "combat simulator".

It makes my character extremely powerful in comparison with others, doubles my action economy, and causes the party's loot split to send a double helping my direction if my cohort is just counted as another PC.

>>43648122
>Followers aren't the problem, the cohort is. Followers are just labor.
Well would you allow just the followers for a feat? I don't about other anons but I don't even want the cohort that much, but having a keep full of followers strikes me as being really cool. Specially without having to pay monthly gold for them.

>>43648126
>Having an animal companion for the price of a feat is far too strong.
Not really. At low levels it would be at medium levels it isn't and at high levels an animal companion, or even a cohort isn't going to be really strong, specially since they don't get a cut from the loot, you have to equip them out of your own pocket.

>>43648146
You have to have a reason, but you also have to pay some character resource. If you leave it to roleplay the 7 cha fighter that no one ever hears about but has a charismatic player can gain as many cohorts and followers as he wants but the cha 20 paladin famous for killing demons but with a shy player would never have converts on his church.

>>43648323
you only control your cohort in combat, its the same as if you had an npc with you and you let a player run it so you could focus on your end
it gives a perceived sense of power but unless you do some bullshit me-rp like "he gives my character all his money" which is straight bullshit it's completely meaningless

>>43648304
Ok so, now you're saying that my feat does nothing as the world simply scales to the fact I have it? What is the point of having this feat now? I would be having an easier time if I simply did not have it, since now the game scales to 5 people, but one of the people is 2 levels lower.

I still don't see how you're justifying having it, or it existing at all. Moreover, why does someone need a feat to have devoted followers? If I spent months recruiting, why did I need the feat? Will people not follow me without me having a feat? You send me on a months long fucking quest to get my cohort, couldn't I have done that without the feat? What other feat requires months of work to begin working?

Take a step back and look at the design aspects, you can't think this is a good thing.

>>43648369
im simply stating it's easy to deal with
i dont think you need to scale to 5 from 4 but if you hate the feat that much feel free

>>43648359
>Not really. At low levels it would be at medium levels it isn't and at high levels an animal companion, or even a cohort isn't going to be really strong, specially since they don't get a cut from the loot, you have to equip them out of your own pocket.
What are you talking about? At high levels a cohort is extremely powerful.

>If you leave it to roleplay the 7 cha fighter that no one ever hears about but has a charismatic player can gain as many cohorts and followers as he wants

Except he can't, because his leadership score wouldn't be fucking high enough.

>>43648364
So you're saying that one person at a table playing two PCs isn't overpowered. Since out of combat that person still follows my orders?

>>43648291
Well, I'd say they aren't supposed to stack, but it seems that it's enhancing the maneuver. Lemme see if I can pull up a PoW writer.

>>43648323
There are your mistakes. You don't get extra loot. Your cohort is not a PC anymore than an Animal Companion is. In fact he is a drain on your loot since you should be paying for his equipment from your share of the loot.

Also two levels below is not "roughly equal power". At all. Two levels below is actually kinda weak, specially at higher levels.

>>43648390
"Easy to deal with" and "Should be allowed in play" are two entirely different things. It's "easy to deal with" paragon surge, that doesn't mean you should allow it to see play.

>>43648411
what im saying is its the same as if one person couldnt show and someone played two characters to cover
it means literally nothing because it doesnt add to their character and if the party refuses to split loot to a follower of one of their party members it just cost them money

>>43648420
>Also two levels below is not "roughly equal power". At all. Two levels below is actually kinda weak, specially at higher levels.
The difference between levels shortens at higher levels, not lengthens. How much higher level play have you actually seen? The difference between a level 15 and level 13 PC is not large by any stretch of the imagination.

>There are your mistakes. You don't get extra loot. Your cohort is not a PC anymore than an Animal Companion is. In fact he is a drain on your loot since you should be paying for his equipment from your share of the loot.
So the world scales to 5 characters, but there aren't 5 characters? You aren't making sense here. Does the ranger having an animal companion make the world scale to 5, since they're the same as a cohort.

>>43648291
okay yeah, animus augmentation is, in the words of the PoW:E editor, "meant for strikes" and it's a "happy accident that sometimes is neat" that the augments work with some counters, but Inner Sense doesn't grant a bonus that stacks with the animus augmentation in question.

File: 1423068853210.jpg (69KB, 476x399px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 476x399px

>>43648420
>Also two levels below is not "roughly equal power". At all. Two levels below is actually kinda weak, specially at higher levels.
Fucking christ are you stupid? at high levels it is far more powerful than lower levels.

>>43648411
>What are you talking about? At high levels a cohort is extremely powerful.
No. It isn't. It's two levels behind, underequiped and probably using a lower array or point buy. You have extra action economy, but most of the time his actions are really not going to matter.

>Except he can't, because his leadership score wouldn't be fucking high enough.
Only if you use the feats and are using rules for followers and cohorts. If you leave this to roleplay, which I have seen some people advocate, then no it rests on the players ability instead of any rules.

This and rules for Diplomacy, Intimidate and Bluff always get my goat, because I used to be that shy player, trying to rp a smooth talking badass and failing because the DM would ignore my rolls and my abilities and use just my weak ass atempts at lying.

>>43648494
It's tangentially related, but Steelforge has a very cheap magic item that allows you to start off every combat with 1 Animus automatically.

>>43648512
>No. It isn't. It's two levels behind, underequiped and probably using a lower array or point buy. You have extra action economy, but most of the time his actions are really not going to matter.
>lower point buy
>under equipped
This is never stated by the feat, they are a PC two levels below you. If the GM is making him under equipped/weaker than you then that is him trying to balance the feat, not the game.

> You have extra action economy, but most of the time his actions are really not going to matter.
So then you're saying the feat is useless?

>Only if you use the feats and are using rules for followers and cohorts. If you leave this to roleplay, which I have seen some people advocate, then no it rests on the players ability instead of any rules.
Ok. Let me get this straight. I'm arguing for not allowing the feat because it's broken/complicated mechanically/etc. You're advocating for just throwing the rules of the feat out?

Hell, you're twisting the feat so fucking much it isn't even the same thing any more.

I'm saying the feat AS WRITTEN is broken, and apparently you're agreeing with me so can you shut you fucking shit flinging mouth.

>>43648512
>It's two levels behind
if you're level 17 and your cohort is a wizard, it's still tossing out 8th level spells.

>probably using a lower array or point buy
A caster can focus on the important stats - the casting stat.

>underequiped
Doesn't matter nearly as much when your cohort has abilities beyond "I hit with sword"

>You have extra action economy, but most of the time his actions are really not going to matter.
I dunno, getting a second round of buffs or battleifeld control, or debuffs, or whatever the fuck else sounds pretty swanky. You seem to be forgetting that in this game Action Economy is king. It's why the term was coined in the first place.

>>43648562
its stated that they are equpped as an npc
a level 13 npc has 21,000 starting gold
thats awful

>>43648635
If you got the feat at level 7 then he should be equipped as roughly that of a normal PC by now because there is no reason for your followers not to have magic item crafters to supply you with gear.

File: 1443373522289.gif (2MB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x281px

Has your DM ever thrown an Iconic or NPC outside of their AP at you?

>>43648657
Or, hell, have the cohort be a magic item crafter themselves.

>>43648694
No, because APs are shit, as are Paizo's annoying, badly-written key NPCs.

>>43648703
There we go. I go out seeking a magic item smith of some kind, go to dwarven lands because they make the best ones. Is this unreasonable when searching for a cohort?

No. My entire organization can be magic item crafters, or crafters in general.

File: ironwolf.png (548KB, 502x680px) Image search: [Google]

548KB, 502x680px

>>43648694
This guy has been plot-relevant in a game I'm in. Does that count?

File: smugilar.jpg (32KB, 250x217px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 250x217px

>>43648694
>APs

>>43648739
I love him conceptually. The idea of "An adventurer is not measured by his deeds, his heroism, or his villainy, all of those are relative and intangible. One is measured by how much treasure they can acquire and keep."

>>43647377
Would these even be viable, crunch or otherwise?

>>43648694

My DM was lazy once and used Seoni as the art for a Sorceress, does that count?

File: 1447042357910.jpg (25KB, 327x240px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 327x240px

>>43648694
>play an evil campaign
>you get to be a dick to them

>>43648792
Am I the only one that really enjoys playing Telepaths entirely for the purpose of mind-controlling named NPCs?

>>43648826
Do you do it as a magical realm or because of a strange fixation?
Both are fine, we're all weirdos here.

File: k7aqx2I.gif (1MB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 320x240px

>>43646927
I've posted this in three threads, does anyone have any thoughts?

>>43648792
T'was the idea Curse and I had. Be Drakainia's mythic children. Taking down one of the Iconics counts as a Trial.

In an odd twist, we both decided independently of each other to play as shortstack Tieflings.

>>43648826
>for the purpose of mind-controlling named NPCs?

+3
WILL
SAVE

File: 1445355333236.gif (189KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

189KB, 640x360px

>>43648792

>Play a mature campaign
>You get to give the dick to them

>>43647981
okay now I need help deciding on skills

>The bloodrager's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

I have 8 points, please assist

>>43648757
This is literally the design philosophy of brown box and red box D&D, soooooo

File: Morgan Ironwolf 1.png (945KB, 640x906px) Image search: [Google]

945KB, 640x906px

>>43648935
Well, Morgan Ironwolf was a parody of that, so yeah.

>>43648918
Perception, survival, acrobatics, intimidate, Knowledge (Arcana), Use Magic Device (Grab a trait that makes it a class skill if possible), Spellcraft, Climb.

File: Morgan Ironwolf 2.png (960KB, 640x899px) Image search: [Google]

960KB, 640x899px

>>43648950

>>43648918

Climb, Craft, Ride, Swim, and Handle Animal aren't worth much. Put at most one point in Swim or Climb so that you don't have a penalty.

Perception is always good, Spellcraft is good, Knowledge Arcana is good. Intimidate and Acrobatics could be good, depending on your build.

>>43648950
Morgan Ironwolf looks more like the parody of an nasty-ass 3.5 optimized character than a red box character, aka Fighting-Man

let's keep our stories straight, here

>>43649013

Bit of both. The Ecology of the Adventurer article was a parody of dungeon-crawl-for-profit adventurers, and Morgan Ironwolf was one who had "won."

To this day I still wonder if he is what Paizo thinks of people who multiclass.

>>43649013
he's there just to have every class and item in the core books yo

>a campaign where everyone plays as a member of an outsider faction, forced to work together to stop a bigger threat
>characters can gain CR, and can turn into other kinds of their faction when appropriate
How would you run it?
What would the story be like?
Would you prefer that only one faction be used, or several at once?
Would you prefer to play it, or DM it?

>>43649037
>To this day I still wonder if he is what Paizo thinks of people who multiclass.

Isn't he an accurate representation of what happens when people multiclass?

Because I keep seeing people here posting crazy builds and I can never not see them as a bitch to roleplay.

>>43649082
refluff.

>>43649082
>barbarian as anything more than fast movement, uncanny dodge, proficiencies, base attack bonus/hit die, and the ability (but not the inclination or necessity) to shut everything but the fight out and perform amazing feats of martial prowess

>>43649111
And the inability to be Lawful.

>>43649037
It's certainly what I think of them.
I get wanting to out a level or two into rogue or something, but sometimes it's obvious they aren't thinking of the other side of the game.

>>43648836
What is there to think about?

File: morgan-ironwolf.png (23KB, 300x314px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 300x314px

>>43648967
>>43649013
>>43648950
Fun fact: "Morgan Ironwolf" is the name of the female 'iconic' (if you can call it that) Fighter back from the original D&D release, when it was used to explain how characters were created and how a normal session of the game was run. Step 14 of character creation said:
>14. This player is female and decides that her character will also be female. Inspired by the name of Morgan le Fay from Arthurian legends, the player decides that the name of Morgan Ironwolf would be a good name for a fighter.

Pic related, the REAL Morgan Ironwolf.

>>43649159
oh god that tit plate. take it away.

>>43649169
How did she get nipples that powerful?

>>43649196
being a
>barbarian 2 cleric 1 fighter 2 monk 2 paladin 2 ranger 2 rogue 2 sorcerer 4 assassin 1 shadowdancer 2

File: confused archen.gif (217KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 500x281px

>>43649159
>mfw

File: triggered.jpg (27KB, 320x371px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 320x371px

>>43649138
>multiclassing INTO rogue

Bait...?

how can you planar bind a solar archon when it has 22 HD and the feat can only take you to 20 HD

>>43649239
There's that one consumable item which also lets you increase the HD. It should stack.

>>43648834
The latter.

I was in a game just after the Vizier was published proper and it started at 4th level. The very first named NPC we met was a guy who the DM had intended to be a one-off questgiver kind of dude, a minor officer in the kingdom's army who had a group of maybe a dozen or so Warrior 1 fodder under his command, called Warren. Warren, and the DM, made the mistake of giving the party the task at hand (it was a pretty simple thing, we had to go take over a small watchtower just across the border of a neighboring kingdom in preparation for an invasion) alone.

I went Overchanneled Empathic Connection with hidden Displays before he even finished his first sentence. Failed his save (he was a Warrior 3, didn't stand much of a chance), Charmed for 5 days. ICly, my character just wanted to be sure they got paid well when it was over, but Warren was good company (when charmed out of his skull anyhow)and rather talkative.

It turned out, Warren had orders to capture the outpost, but didn't have orders on how. So I convinced him (not difficult, really) to gather up his men. We outfitted them all and ourselves with some cheap Stealth equipment, and the fodder all received masterwork light crossbows. That night, the party, Warren, and all twelve grunts assaulted the outpost.

Not directly, though. The party was diverse enough that we could pose as traveling tradesmen - we borrowed a cart from some townsfolk and put provisions for the NPC squad in it to really sell it - and, after offering to generously share our food and drink with the outpost's soldiers (about 8 of them total, with one named NPC leader), the party was invited inside.

>>43649251
source on item?

>>43649082
Not really, no. Crazy builds are generally each made of components of a whole. Your class is not your character, and its fluff is not necessarily your fluff.

I can see builds out of context being seen as difficult to RP, though. It's only when you /have/ that full context that they make sense.

Let's say I have a character who, hypothetically, is a dirty fighter who is mobile and focused in a fight, and can fight unarmed as well as he fights armed. He doesn't have a lot of supernatural stuff, but will kick your ass if he gets to you. He is generally single-minded to a fault in combat, though, focusing on taking his enemy down and moving to the next as efficiently as possible. He's not stupid, though. He's fairly skilled in his areas of expertise, and knows how to use his smarts to his advantage.

If I were in 3.5, I could build this in a lot of ways. I'm going to use the following, though:

Martial Monk 1 (gets fighter bonus feats in place of monk feats)/Spirit Lion Totem Wolf Totem (or "Fleshraker Totem" as it's sometimes called) Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 2/Factotum 3

Let's go over what this gets me, divorced of fluff:

- Improved Unarmed Strike, 1d6 unarmed strike damage
- Evasion (or the ability to turn invisible as an immediate action for one round once every three rounds, if I wanted to be more supernatural)
- Whirling Frenzy: similar to rage, but instead of +Con, it gives +2 to AC and Reflex, -2 to attack rolls, and an extra attack on full attacks.
- Pounce (a very important part, because of needing to be a mobile combatant)
- BAB +5 at this level. Fairly good saves.
- Improved Trip as a bonus feat
- Two fighter bonus feats
- AC bonus when unarmored (unlikely to be used, but potentially good)
- The ability to add +Int to d20 rolls in combat, the ability to do 1d6 of sneak attack, and adding my Int mod to all Strength and Dexterity-based checks (including combat maneuvers like Trip).

(continued)

>>43649266
Our Bard distracted most of them with lively song and whatnot, and I got to talking with the enemy's leader - one Sergeant Alfryg. Another very expensive but very worth it Empathic Connection later, I had convinced the Sergeant to test his marksmanship against our Ranger's in a friendly competition, and invited his men outside to wager on it.

Then Warren and his dozen hidden crossbowmen promptly shot all of Alfryg's men, and the one that didn't go down immediately was shot by the Ranger twice. Amusingly, none of them died; the Ranger had ranks in Heal, and stabilized them all. The party tied them all up tight (well, the Ranger did, he had the best CMB), took the provisions out of the cart, and put the prisoners into it.

Alfryg didn't make his Charisma contest with me to not start attacking Warren and his men, and we left Warren's men at the outpost while Warren, Alfryg, and the party went back into friendly territory and sent a reported the mission successful. Alfryg turned out to not be the most loyal of soldiers, and I convinced him to desert (all his men were prisoners and he'd be presumed dead anyway) on condition that we'd bring his family to him before the war got too intense.

Alfryg was a decent fisherman, and lived on basically undisturbed in the little border town after that. We never did find his family, the campaign died before that.

Warren, however, still had 4 days of charm left, and when we returned to the outpost, he was persuaded to join up with us and left a subordinate in charge. Once the first portion of the main army arrived, we were paid handsomely, Warren paid off his remaining service due (Conscription was a thing in that kingdom, but one could buy their way out of it if they wanted), and we went off to find a good location for the army's forward base and clear a path to it, which was a whole other adventure.

>>43649239
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/caller-s-feather

>>43649277
Monster Summoner's Handbook. It's called the Caller's Feather, increase HD limit by 2. If you take it and the feat, then it should become 22 HD, enough for a solar.

http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Caller%27s%20Feather

Is pathfinder society good or bad?

>>43649169
>>43649196

>He doesn't like women with adamantine nipples

>>43649299
Useless for Solars, but you can stack those two plus a few levels in Darkfire Adept to get up to 24 for one evil Outsider subtype.

File: 1367638733924.jpg (32KB, 415x423px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 415x423px

So I saw the eldritch archer and thought I finally found a way to make guns not suck, and have yet again run into a million logistics issues with those god-forsaken fucksticks.

>Need EWP
>Need amateur gunslinger for quick clear (mend might work instead)
>need rapid reload
>need deadly aim
>need Point blank shot

It's like I'm in hell, this is of course ignoring the fact that each level is going to have about two months between them and I'm getting a very strong message that I should really, REALLY consider just dropping the idea of guns altogether.

>>43649286
(Er, martial monk 2. Fuck.)

So basically, we have:

- can fight armed and unarmed competently.
- can dodge fireballs and attacks well even without armor
- can move and attack
- can fuck people up by fighting smartly
- can attack slightly faster than normal
- a couple extra feats to spend on stuff I want (one could be spent changing my monk AC bonus to Int, for synergy)

None of this is innately tied to any fluff from the classes themselves. There's no issue roleplaying the character, because his personality can be written up on top of that. The abilities from the multiclass themselves are internally-consistent, and the refluff works fine.

>>43649138
I'm slightly confused by your use of "other side of the game" here. Building with mechanics in mind isn't mutually-exclusive with building with fluff in mind. Not only that, but I've found the best roleplayers in my 15 years of D&D have been the ones who knew the game well and used fluff and crunch together to make something beautiful. They're the same side of the game.

>>43649325
If possible, Gunsmoke Mystic.

If not, just abandon concept, dude.

>>43649311
too many variables
you can have a good GM or a Kineticists-Are-Overpowered moron
you can have a good table or a bunch of stuttering spergs, magical realmers, and That Guy
you can have a fairly decent oneshot, a horrible slog, or a complete void of content
~~it depends~~, but generally it's not that great

>>43649325

Since refluffing is on topic, I'd recommend just refluffing a longbow as a rifle.

>>43649316
sorry but why is it useless for solars? doesnt seem to say anything against it
also theres nothing higher than 22HD on the chart so youd need to call a specific named creature to get 24 right?

>>43649342
Let me guess, 3rd party? If so, then yeah I think it's time I just stuffed guns back in the corner where they belong. Maybe someday fantasy games will break out of the dung ages.

>>43649361
Very good third party at least. Sadly.

File: god dog.jpg (8KB, 184x184px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 184x184px

>>43649361
fantasy games already did, Pathfinder never will

>>43649361
Guns are fine if you're in a setting that supports them. IE, actually applies the alternate-setting gun rules and allows advanced firearms.

>>43649361
Technological weapons might actually help for once.

>>43649358
The chart is just a list from specific sources, you can Bind literally any Outsider that fits the HD limit.

Darkfire Adept is useless for Solars because it only works on specific Outsider subtypes, namely evil ones.

Fun times when you realize several Demon Lords are 24HD or less.

>>43649361
Yeah, Gunsmoke Mystic is an archetype for a Path of War class by DSP. Worth taking a look at, if you're allowed 3rd-party.
>>43649138
>the other side of the game
Very rarely do classes have fluff assumed on them, and it's extremely easy to refluff it anyway.
For instance, say I wanted to port over some PrCs back from 3.5 into Pathfinder; let's say the Shiba Protector from Oriental Adventures. This class was well-known to be an amazing option for human monks as a 1-level dip, because the first ability is "you add your Wisdom bonus to all attack and damage rolls". What's a Shiba, and why are you protecting it? Does it really matter? You can remake it however you want to.

>>43649413
>YOU HAVE SUMMONED THE JUBIL-
>fuck
>it's you again

>>43649417
Wow, 3.5 really DID have something for everything.

I didn't think they'd have a PrC all about protecting the Doge, but well... here we are.

>>43649417

>Shiba Protector
>You're protecting a Shina Inu
>A Shiba Inu that can operate gears and levers to torture poor souls in misty American towns

>>43649417
Believe me, I'd love to try some of the things from DSP, unfortunately my GM is the kind of chucklefuck who thinks Sacred Weapon makes the Warpriest broken, and who also has THREE 0-9 casters in the player party.

Also, not being on the SRD is another black mark against it unfortunately. I'd love to be able to use guns sometime, but the last campaign that allowed advanced firearms ended ages ago and my gunslinger lasted a whole two sessions before getting killed by my party. This campaign is as generic as fantasy gets, meaning anything more modern than flintlock is out.

It's a shame really.

>>43649417
>>43649477

Oriental Adventures also has a passage that says in any setting other than Rokugan, it's both RAW and RAI to rewrite the fluff and ignore race/family prerequisites. Shiba Protector doesn't even require human.

Its prerequisites are insane, though. Alertness, Combat Expertise, and Iron Will are /rough/ for a martial. Even with flaws. Even though it's amazing, it somehow manages to not be overpowered because of the sheer opportunity cost of it.

>>43649431
Pick Qlippoth with Darkfire.

http://www.dxcontent.com/MDB_MonsterBlock.asp?MDBID=733

Summon one of these cuddly fellas (you'll need a Widened Magic Circle Against Evil, otherwise he's too big) and tell him to destroy a city and turn everyone he can into Nyogoths, whom he is to send back to wherever he came from; those Nyogoths are his payment.

Just be sure to stand back a bit when he's free from the circle, or you'll get Feebleminded and shit. Or just blindfold yourself during the negotiations.

>>43649498
I. Wait. What. How?

Please. Please anon, make this hurt less.

>>43649536
Yep. If you ported it over to Pathfinder though it'd be a bit tough; part of the class features include an innate connection to Shugenja, which don't exist in Pathfinder. It'd be an interesting conversion practice.

>>43649568
Hey Gareth. How would you build an initiator to stop an invasion by >>43649554 this fashion? You succeed if you kill the Iathovos, or can find and eliminate the Wizard 15/Darkfire Adept 5 that Called it.

>>43649568
You'll be happy to know that I've left out things far worse than that. FAR far worse, there are things better left unsaid.

File: aren't the droids you're looking for.gif (444KB, 480x204px) Image search: [Google]

444KB, 480x204px

>>43649582
What other class features? There's only one level; it's like a weird paragon class.

You'd probably want to give it some actual class features to make levels 2 through 10 not so incredibly shitty. Aid Shugenja could just be a general-purpose caster cheerleader ability without breaking anything, either.

>>43649568
>>43649620
Somewhere, Whisper is laughing, for the temptation to ask more gnaws away at Gareth's mind.

For someone with a jenkem addiction, would craft (alchemy) be something to look for? Is alchemy involved in the creation of jenkem?

Please help, this is very important.

>>43649762
Uh, probably since it's a drug.

>>43649762

Mwangi please go

>>43649620
Please continue.

>>43649782
What would the effects be? Beneficial? Negative? What would be involved in crafting it? What would having a higher alchemy score do?

>>43649820
Only because you asked nicely. Here's a few of my favorite gems

>I can see how the Kineticist could be weaker than a Warrior, but I still think it can be broken - on game balance
>being able to apply dexterity on damage rolls doesn't make any sense - on why fencing grace is illogical
>so I suppose bruce lee uses dexterity for damage when he does his one-inch-punch? - on why fencing grace is illogical, pt. 2
>I can see having a flanking buddy being overpowered - balance concerns about the hunter
>fighters can be absolutely broken - on the unbridled power of guy who hits things good
>yeah but the warpriest gets sacred weapon - on why the warpriest can be "absolutely broken"
>sure - when asked if one can play any 1-9 spellcasting class

>>43649961
So you're just gonna Wizard, right? Kick out all the stops. Blood Simulacra. Staff of the Master golf bag. Acadamae Graduate. Imp with Wand of Enervate. Call down the thunder.

>>43649961
Have you ever heard of the martini mage, perchance?

>>43650138
I haven't, and even though I'm not him, tell me.

File: GM learns the definition of CoDzilla.jpg (758KB, 1500x1500px) Image search: [Google]

758KB, 1500x1500px

So bonded object does not give you proficiency with the object you're bonding with, which crushes my dreams of gunslinging magus even further since that's just one more feat in the massive list of feat taxes ranged weapons have.

>>43650120
No, I'm not that petty. If the campaign gets bad enough I'll just drop out, I'm not interested in "ruining" it just to spite the GM.

>>43650147
Ooh, I know this one

http://txt.blorgblorgbl.org/view/raw/4c9ae363

>>43650170
Oh, I read this once ages ago.

Imma read it again though.

>>43650147
another telling: http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/11/conversation/lord-gareths-martini-wizard-on-a-lawn-chair

>>43650150
Gunslinger dip?

Or Human and Half-Elf can get EWP as bonus feats.

Tengu don't have great stat adjustments but you might convince your DM to let one of their free EWPs apply to a firearm. Or pre-nerf Heirloom Weapon.

>>43649867
Anyone?

>>43649594
I'm away from books and also /why do you people ask me these things/?

>>43650230
>Gunslinger dip?
best option, but breaks the golden rule and also throws craft wondrous item to 5th level. Given that there's usually a full month between character levels, any delay in class features and the like will hurt pretty badly.

>Or Human and Half-Elf can get EWP as bonus feats.
I also considered this, but it only slightly lifts the burden

>Tengu don't have great stat adjustments but you might convince your DM to let one of their free EWPs apply to a firearm
Tengu are too "weird" for this campaign, and traits aren't a thing this go around either

Also COUGH SYRUP IS NOT A DRINK GOOGLE

>>43650204
Wait, is that GARETH!?

>>43650265
Well, you've claimed in the past to be an effective optimizer.

I thought you would relish the challenge.

It seems, then, that I was wrong.

>>43650289
The one and only.

>>43650289
The same, yes.

>>43650295
I would like to posit that he made no such claims, and his preferred method of character optimization is "smacking his face on the pages of books until his build's done"

>>43650295
I internalized certain principles so I meet competence. I don't particularly like the mechanical aspects of character building and create the mechanics of my characters with an eye to expending as little effort as possible.

>>43650304
Much like this.

>>43650322
Gareth, I'm interested in the link up here >>43650204 , where it claims as the last line:
>So I had to do this again, borrowing a fear-lockdown samurai from a friend.

Mind telling that story?

>>43650322
So what you're saying is, if this was a /real/ campaign that you were a part of and you were only able to make an initiator, /then/ you'd do it?

>>43650289
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13206508&postcount=28 original post on the topic, even

File: 1367563688088.jpg (50KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 640x480px

>>43650322
Gareth, why do you have a pony as your avatar for Stack Exchange?
As a warning, I would suggest not posting any pony pictures for this reply, since you might end up banned for it.

>>43650279
All I can think of then is stacking Kensai with it, but Kensai specifies a melee weapon. You could try to convince your DM to allow a firearm?

>>43650335
The samurai build was from Test of Spite, done by Shneeky the Lost. I forget the name of the character but it was an infinite fear loop only broken by immunity. My players were not clever people; only one character managed to be immune to fear. The others were executed like dogs.

>>43650347
Possibly? I dunno man, the last character I made to play with was a harbinger in a 3.PF game and I took fucking Omniscient Whispers, man. Literally only two questions I ask are "Is this going to meet baseline competence yes/no" and "does this fit the concept yes/no", accepting that the concept was already made for the campaign as a given.

>>43650373
I doubt it would work. I should probably just give up on the idea and just make a generic fencing grace kensai magus.

>>43650387
>Possibly? I dunno man, the last character I made to play with was a harbinger in a 3.PF game and I took fucking Omniscient Whispers, man. Literally only two questions I ask are "Is this going to meet baseline competence yes/no" and "does this fit the concept yes/no", accepting that the concept was already made for the campaign as a given.

This whole post depresses me.

>>43650387
>The samurai build was from Test of Spite, done by Shneeky the Lost
I remember that build, and the vague remembrance of someone screeching "DAMN YOU, SHNEEKY!"

>>43650366
Someone made the avvie for me because the expression of shock and/or horror fit so many of my replies when someone asked for 3.PF help and I was online. Also it makes me giggle.

I also watch the show sometimes, though losing netflix - and my sons being a thousand miles away from me with my ex-wife - means I don't watch as much as I once did. Good thing I'm already fucking drinking because now I'm depressed.

>>43650398

He did kick a decent amount of ass in it. The campaign worked well as a proof-of-concept of the Harbinger being able to faceroll optimization choices and still end up pretty good.

File: 1382121057499.jpg (82KB, 837x823px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 837x823px

>>43650409
>spoiler
Sorry about that, dude. Hope you end up having better times soon.

>>43650409
Did you watch it because your kids liked it, or just for yourself?

There's a lot of anons who REALLY don't like people in the latter category.

>>43650409
>spoiler

Takes some guts to admit that around here.

>>43650429
Yes. Originally put it on because my son liked shows with bright colors and female voice actors. Continued to watch the show because I was having fun.

My son also subjected me to Teen Titans Go!, and at one point I will have my revenge upon him for it. One day, when he is old enough to understand why it is he suffers.

>>43650429
I know I watched it because my niece (Though I did get her to start watching the show because I was fucking tired of Caillou)

Sadly I'm almost tempted to go watch episodes by myself, but so far I've yet to fall.

>>43650442
>Teen Titans Go!
Original series vastly superior up until their unexpected cancellation and rushed ending.

File: 1392247323759.gif (3MB, 768x432px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 768x432px

>>43650442
>because my son liked shows with bright colors and female voice actors
A shame that you didn't get them into anime then, Gareth.

>>43650470
>A shame that you didn't get them into anime then, Gareth.
That is a perilous fuckin' path for a little kid, man.

>>43650442
>revenge line

Dude, my respect for you just rose a few points. I'm borrowing that line.

I just wish I could convince my GM to allow at least DSP into his games. He's so hesitant I'm about three steps from just smacking him in the face with my copy of UP.

There's only three players in the group, and at least one more of them is interested in trying it. Maybe once our pirates campaign has concluded...

>>43650517
If there's ever anything I can do to help - hell, if your DM wants to talk with me or discuss mechanics or balance or needs access to resources - you lemme know. I'm in the position here lately of teaching a new group - as in, new to PF, not just new for me - the nuances of psionics & PoW on top of the base system so I'm already kinda in Mentor Mode.

Also you can't see it but I'm blushing.

>>43650470
Tried. It didn't really take, except for an inexplicable enjoyment of El Carazon de la Brujah which was cut short by the house's internet imploding. I still haven't finished that series.

>>43650517
Be the GM. Use a lot of NPCs. Make many of them, good and bad and in between, initiators, manifesters, spherecasters, and so forth.

Go to the next level after the first campaign. Explicitly have a world where Paizo classes are the "old school" and the above dominate the planet, and even the multiverse. Give Outsiders Spheres. Give Aberrations Manifesting and Dread Terrors. Give Giants a few Primal Fury maneuvers.

>>43650562
>the nuances of psionics & PoW on top of the base system
I've found it easier to teach PF virgins DSP content than it is to teach it to people who learned Paizo first.

Props to you, though. I fuckin' hate teaching completely new players, and I always have to when I run games for some reason.

>>43650614
As sad as this is anon, teaching people how to play the goddamn game is /all/ of my groups. The one I had that wasn't like that was A. online and B. the game is dead.

>>43650648
It's a fine line, really.

Too new and you have to figure out how to explain to someone that what you're teaching them to play is an inherently flawed system and that they have to watch out or they'll pick choices that make them useless. I've found that people with Roguelike experience are the easiest to teach.

But the more experienced the player is, the stronger the reasons will be for them to NOT have a comfy group already, so the concentration of magical realmers and That Guys and bitter, stubborn 'my way of fun is the only way to fun' grognards goes WAY up.

I love this game, but God I hate the community.

>>43650648
Out of curiosity, Gareth, how do you deal with people that come to you with homebrew?

>>43650571
I've already run a campaign with these guys, but it didn't get very far due to lack of content (OC campaign donut steel). I'm considering running it again and having them play DSP/SoP classes, since they enjoyed the one-shot I had them play in which it was strictly UP.

>>43650562
I got a paragraph or so from you before, it's what convinced him to try playing the psionics classes in the first place (he picked cryptic and had a blast). So that was good as a bump in the right direction. It's really more of trying to push him into the "let's try a short stint with the material and see how it goes" level.

>>43650614
My GM came from 3.5 and that hellfest of psionics, which is the vast majority of his resentment towards the concept itself.

>>43650681

3.5 psionics is nearly identical to DSP's psionics. Literally all they did was close a couple pieces of obscure TO (by virtue of not having some of the splatbooks), and add more class features to classes. Not a hellfest at all.

>>43650681
>My GM came from 3.5 and that hellfest of psionics,
Honestly, earlier editions had it the worst. Psionics just got an unfair rap and an unfair amount of attention on the inevitable powerful combos it could pull off because of that.

>>43650680
I desecrate the graves of their ancestors, till salt into the earth of their homelands, destroy every living thing that ever loved them, shatter their momentos of the past and annihilate their hopes for the future, and then, only then, do I begin to truly make them suffer.

Alternately, I direct them at helpful minions who have the time and inclination to review it. Stuff being submitted for potential publishing I review myself, then sic the minions on.

>>43650681
Woo!

>>43650702
I more meant the people that come to you with homebrews at your gametable, but I suppose this means I can theoretically submit something that you'll actually use to you in the future. good to know.

>>43650702
You've probably been asked this before, but will DSP ever release their own campaign setting OR come up with a Golarion spinoff with Psionics etc in it?

>>43650724
Hasn't happened in years. Like. I couldn't vote, drink, or smoke the last time it happened. If it were to happen again I'd give it the same shake as 3pp; I was a homebrewer once, and I remember what it was like. Might even track down the author to provide feedback from the circumstances at the table.

Amusingly, though, the last time I was handed homebrew for use at the table *it was my work*. The player didn't know it; they took out a printout of Harrowed (one day I will return to fix that class) and asked if I'd be willing to review it.

>>43650753
>Third Dawn

>>43650764
>Amusingly, though, the last time I was handed homebrew for use at the table *it was my work*.
HA.

>>43650695
That does not help with acclimating my GM to the idea of allowing it.

>>43650794
Sucks that he probably played with people who missed the single most important rule about psionics (max pp = ML).

I suppose "you're wrong, and have been doing it wrong, and your reading comprehension sucks" wouldn't go over well either.

Bestiary 5 = When?

>>43650804
I told him it was a concrete rule of playing psionics in PF, and like I said, he enjoyed playing the Cryptic. He's just iffy about running games with DSP material, which is what I'm pushing for ('cause I wanna play more marksmen and aegii).

>>43650901
>wanting to play a Marksman
I thought that class was awful, though.

>>43650909
It isn't GREAT, but it can be decently solid, in particular when backed by a few levels of aegis.

Of particular interest to it would be Sniper Style, weapon augmentation (through aegis), and the new Overwatch Vortex feat chain...

It also leads very evilly (bad feat reqs tho) into Adaptive Warrior if rifles are what you're into.....

>>43650909
Sniper style Shroud can be silly fun, and if you have Aegis 3/student of the astral suit, you can fly invisible-like.

>>43650398
Aside from what anon said here >>43650420
I will note that I do put effort into my /design/. In fact you might consider all the effort in the design to be specifically so people won't have to put in tons of effort in the character building.

>>43651038
Mm. Picking randomly will usually get you a shit character, but it should be because you ended up going with shit that doesn't synergize as opposed to you ending up with just shit.

File: NICEU CATCH JOJO.jpg (1MB, 1049x1500px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1049x1500px

Can I make a stand user in Pathfinder without it being outclassed completely by a more "standard" build? Ideally I'd be able to get a bit creative with my stand instead of just a punch ghost but if not I'd be fine with just ora-ing people to death.

>>43651318
Just build a Ghost Monk that's summoned by another PC

File: 1446794917355.png (72KB, 353x439px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 353x439px

>>43651318
Hah.

"Stand"ard.

File: forty oras.jpg (36KB, 600x520px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 600x520px

>>43651358
Kek, I didn't even notice that.

So what's your favorite half-breed/mostly-human race, /pfg/?

Top three here (probably pleb taste, but whatever):

>3. Skinwalker (Beast form and Lineages are cool, and they provide a nice counterpoint to Dhampirs)
>2. Aasimar (It's not like I'm jealous of their angel blood or anything!)
>1. Sylph (Bonus to LIGHTNING POWERS and 1/day Feather Fall? Sign me up!)

>>43651571
Skinwalker, Tiefling, and Samsaran, in that order.

I came into possession of a Talking skull, he seems like a cool dude, makes bone jokes and doesn't afraid of anything. But he's literally immobile, he cannot move, just talk. SO I carried him a bit and got him one of those mage hand necklaces made into a circlet. So he can in fact move things or himself if needed, but he insists on following us to the dungeons now, and i'm afraid he will get hurt.. re-hurt?

But I was thinking could I take Rune spells, like Symbol of Mirroring, and Explosive rune. Put them on little stone tablets he can levitate into range and activate on his own? I really think he's hilarious I'd just like him to feel useful since he's had like 2000 years of being stuck in one spot and refuses to stay put now that he can move.

>>43651589
What, if any third party do you have access to?

>>43651589
Well, I'm using vampiric bloodline Sorc. which is Kobold press. And he let me take some corpse-crafting feats from Libris Mortis in 3.5.
One guy is a half ogre Barbarian.
And we have a Stalker as our second melee.

So yeah he's pretty cool with third party as long as it's not shit or 100% broken all day every day.

>>43651612
Would your DM be open to giving him Spheres of Power magic?

It's pretty customizable, and if your DM is controlling what Talents he learns, he can control how powerful he basically ends up.

Basically the Telekinesis Sphere would let him levitate himself around. With the Easy Focus boon, him maintaining that would only be a move action (So equivalent to him moving around normally, so long as something doesn't break his concentration and make him have to restart it as a standard), so it would leave his standard action free to do other things.

Hell, what your DM could do is just let him Feat into it, not even giving him a casting class. Provided he, as an intelligent dude, gets feats.

>>43651688
Well I already used my Oracle/Sorc multiclass and scrolls to make an undead minion for myself that is pretty swag, he's a Zwei Sent. Juju Relentless Zombie. I think he'd get upset that I'd try and get him to make a caster minion too.

>>43651716
It's pretty limited. Spheres is a massive step down from core casting.

And if he feated into it, the two initial talents would get him only one Talent, so he'd be able to do one thing. Every talent after that would cost another feat.

He wouldn't be a 'minion' per se, as much as 'capable of moving around on his own, and maybe doing one or two tricks'

>>43651747
Hmm, I'll look into it. Never looked at spherecasting before.

>>43651760
It's good for lower power casting, and requires casters to be a bit more focused on their area of expertise.

It has a higher floor, but a lower ceiling.

>>43651774
Hah, that's like my sorc's build, I just put all his feats and levels towards maxing animate dead's CL. I get like +20CL (to JUST Animate dead) at 15 and 6HD/CL

>>43651802
Yeesh, how you wrangling that much?

A Spherecaster with the Death sphere can take Greater Reanimation three times to bump their max limit up to 5/level, but how'd you get 6?

File: maga_by_happy_mutt-d4hi570.jpg (640KB, 868x1232px) Image search: [Google]

640KB, 868x1232px

>>43646368

Hey /pfg/.

I'm thinking about making a PF character for a high-optimization arena game. Note when I say 'High' I mean everything short of TO. You find something stupidly broken? Good.

It uses all PF material. As well as Gestalt. Characters are either 5th or 10th and fight other characters of the same level.

It uses a component system that works like so-
You get 8-10 points. Access to Full spellcasting classes cost 3 points, you can get simple templates for 2 points, non-spellcasting/manifesting classes 1 point, all prestige classes 1 point, partial casting costs 2 points. Extra feats for 2 points, extra gold for 3 points (60% extra).

You can buy a 3.5 feat you qualify for before 6th level for 2 points.

So limited dipping, especially if you're dipping spellcasting classes.

Most of the PF 3rd party that's on pfsrd is allowed.

I have two questions.

1. How do I get touch attack on my melee attacks? I've found a 3rd level Scarlet Throne boost that gives it to 1 attack, and Brilliant Energy being it's usual useless brilliant self. I've built a Chrono-Legionnaire light that applies a half dozen status effects if it so much as looks at you wrong, but while I can hit flat-footed AC relatively easily, touch attacks are impossible to find. I could theoretically go One-Punch and use Pummeling Charge + that scarlet throne boost and lay it all on that one strike, but I don't particularly want to. Anything else in PF?

2. What would you build for this arena? Are there any leet builds that i'm missing out on? I know about the Geysermancer, and i've also built a Crossblooded Evoker in the past.

>>43651829
Spell perfection (animate dead) and every feat I could find to enhance my CL.
Undead master, Spell Specialization, Arcane thesis, Mages Tattoo Necro, and the Sanguine bloodline +1cl to necro.

Oracle with Juju Mystery for juju zombies.

>>43651868
Undead Master only increases how many undead you animate, *not* how many you can control.

>>43651868
Meh +12 ain't bad

>>43646368
If something gives you a bonus "every time you take a level" in your favored class, does that apply to first level as well?

>>43652305
Yes.

>>43652305
are you talking about racial bonuses to favored classes, or that stupid Finding Haleen trait?

>>43647734
Just use a cestus.

Alternately, use the Monk Variant Multiclass, but you'll probably want to take the Kensai archetype as well to soften the blow of not being able to wear armor. Monk VMC gets you unarmed strike of a Monk of your level -2 starting at level 3, but you don't have to take anything else to use it with your class features, since the Monk's unarmed strike counts as a manufactured weapon already.

>>43652383
There's the Ascetic Style from the new book. That gives you monk damage.

>>43652355
I think the name was changed to Finding Your Kin, but yes. The rules work the same way for both, don't they?

>>43652405
you get your favored class bonus by taking the level, yes, and you get your Finding Haleen bonus

so you get 1 skill point, 1 hp, and one of (skill point, HP, racial favored class bonus if available)

Finding Haleen is Paizo campaign content so pfsrd censors it, it's called Finding Haleen in Legacy of Fire

>>43652519
Oh. I guess I thought the SRD was an official thing that paizo ran to try to entice people to learn the game. I guess it makes sense that it's all pirated.

>>43652540
Well it isn't pirated. It's OGL content, so they can put it up, but they have to trim fluff references, since that ain't OGL.

>>43652540

Paizo runs the PRD, Pathfinder Reference Document, which is harder to use and.. incomplete?

Everything pathfinder is published under OGL, the Open Gaming License, which means you can reproduce it wherever and that isn't piracy. The exception is the setting names and the pictures.

>>43652401
From what I've seen (I don't have the book, and it's not on d20pfsrd.com yet, but I found somebody quoting the text in a forum post), it doesn't grant you unarmed strike damage. It lets you pick one type of weapon, and if you ALREADY HAVE unarmed strike damage (or other unarmed strike enhancing effects), you can apply it to that weapon AS IF it were an unarmed strike.

The feat, from the quote I saw, does not actually grant you unarmed strike damage.

>>43652519
I'm probably going to take Outlander: Lore Seeker (my build focuses on a specific spell) over it instead anyway (my group allows all campaign traits), and go down in history as the first min-maxer to pass up Finding Haleen.

>>43652600
Ascetic Strike, not the style itself. Lets you use the unarmed damage of a monk 4 levels lower than you as the base damage for the chosen weapon (Which may be unarmed strikes)

>>43652540
>>43652575
Yeah, there are two main SRD's out there for Pathfinder that people use: the PRD (Pathfinder Reference Document) which is the official source, and the PFSRD, which is the unofficial source that usually has more up-to-date rules (since Paizo waits longer to put their material up). The PRD is also easier to use on small devices like phones and tablets, and it organizes things by book instead of mashing it all together.

The reason this works is that Pathfinder is OGL content, and part of the rules of the OGL is that anything you make using the OGL is also OGL. So basically, all the mechanical stuff from Pathfinder is free to use as long as you follow the rules of the OGL. You could make and sell your own version of Pathfinder 2.0 if you wanted (you just couldn't actually CALL it Pathfinder).