Pathfinder General /pfg/

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>>43605548
I'm an idiot and forgot the link to the past thread

Threadly reminder Pharasma is a dumb whore

What's everyone's favorite necromancy spell?

Anathaism or whatever the fuck Psionic !necromancypowers are allowed too

let's play this again

>think of a way to die
>now turn it into a daemon

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>>43612890
So, peoples favored ways to bully the magically inclined.
It's possible, just takes some critical thinking, and a fuck ton of gold, with a dash of PoW.

>>43612933

Defending Bone

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/defending-bone

>>43612938
>Erodaemon
>Sex related death

>>43612933
>Pharasma is a dumb whore
but that's not calistria

>>43612933
Shadow projection is interesting, I missed this spell until recently. Seems good for scouting, it's not entirely clear to me if you're supposed to get full incorporeality and retain spellcasting ability though.

>>43613002
Literally already a thing

I have a question about the Sphere Druid. Two questions actually.
1. Why is it so much better than the Shifter in that book?
2. Does it get an extra Alteration Talent every time Wildshape would upgrade, or just once? Because the PDF that the person last thread linked suggested that you get an Alteration talent every time Wildshape improved.

>>43613090
Son of a bitch okay
>Stangulodaemon
>Auto-erotic asphyxiation

>>43613090
When you cast Shadow Projection you use the Shadow's statblock exactly apart from the changes listed in the spell, so you don't keep any spellcasting while in shadow form.

>>43612938
>Ogodaemon
>they represent burning to death
>take the form of a black muscular humanoid with a rams head
>large black cracks cover it's body, spewing hot flame
>it's head is alight, dripping it's flesh from it's bone and melting the features from it's face
>they are constantly in motion, setting whatever they can alight
>in battle, they often charge at enemies only to jump and latch onto them, hoping their bodies will burn them
>if that fails, they will run around and light whatever they can find on fire to make the battlefield more dangerous

>>43613151
already a thig
three legged birds with octupus tentacles for a tongue

>>43613173
Ah well, still a neat spell.

>>43613151
There's a strangulation daemon too (suspiridaemon) but I guess that's more specific.

>>43613098
They only get the talent once.

>>43613039
No, but what if Pharasma and Calistria did the fusion dance? Pharastria (Calasma?) is the only one who can defeat Lamashtu.

>>43612933
create soul gem

Necromancy is always good for the flavor spells.

>>43613098
>>43613263
So, it turns out that there was an update to the book on April 25th, that changes some of the classes. For instance, the Druid now gets an extra Talent at levels 10 and 16 as well as level 4. Don't suppose anyone has an updated version somewhere? Mine is old.

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>>43613266
Is there any RPG system that has support for characters fusing together for a temporary power boost?

Is Arcforge gonna have Megazord options?

Wasn't there a new magic item that came out in one of the recent book releases that was basically a continual Status and Location effect on a cloak clasp?

Does somebody mind posting it?

>>43613344

Pathfinder technically does in the Synthesist summoner, but that's probably not what you're looking for. It's hard to pull off, since it basically amounts to taking control away from one player and giving it to a player who already had a character to control.

>>43613344
>While the rest of the party cleans gory bits of the guardian from their weapons, the mage takes a moment to try and identify the strange magic item the group has recovered

It seems your party has found a minor artifact that allows two people to temporarily fuse! You're not sure exactly how it works, but you know the fused form is both more powerful than the sum of its parts and temporary. What will your party do with it? Dare your party tempt fate, not knowing what dangers the artifact may represent?

>>43613419
I would say that the two players must work together to work out what the fused character does and when they can't decide, opposed checks would be used to determine whose will overpowers the other's.

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>>43613452

>>43612933
My favorite necromancy spell is sadly not one that got ported over to Pathfinder.

http://dndtools.pw/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/grim-revenge--208/

Isn't this just a glorious "fuck you" spell?

>>43613452
Shit maybe even give them a +1 bonus when they both obviously agree on an action to show how "in sync" they are.
>>43613505
>fuck you, lose a hand is a 4th level spell
Holy shit, but yes that is a great "fuck you spell".

>>43613505
I forgot for a minute that the Book of Vile Darkness isn't the one full of lewd stuff and was really alarmed when I read this and >>43613534 before checking out the link.

>>43613598
Doesn't the Book of Vile Darkness contain evil powered nipple clamps of pain or something?

>>43613534
And then you Quicken it, so you can rip off /both/ hands.

The BoVD had some of the best spells. The best evocation spell ever, for example: http://dndtools.pw/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/loves-pain--184/

>>43613624
It has a single item of that. Turns pain into pleasure while you wear them. They're good for combining with the Exalted spell Distilled Joy.

>>43613598
>>43613624

Wasn't this the book with implied lewdness with a unicorn horn?

>>43612933
I have a soul fascination, so

>Soul Exchange
>Discipline: Athanatism; Level: Psion/wilder 5, vitalist 5
>Display: Material and mental
>Manifesting Time: 1 round
>Range: Touch
>Target: Willing, living creature touched
>Duration: Instantaneous
>Saving Throw: None; Power Resistance: No >Power Points: 9
>You muddle that which affects a soul, switching them between different souls. You and the target exchange all soul-based curses, blessings, or effects. In addition, you exchange all mental ability damage and drain, as well as negative levels. If any of these effects could be reduced or removed with a save, their new owner may attempt a new save against each such effect. This does not count as if you gained a new version of whatever effect you receive – instead, the duration on any of these effects continues as normal, just as if nothing had happened. If either target is possessed when you manifest this power, the possessing entity may succeed on a Will save to choose one of the targets to transfer to - otherwise, they remain with the body they were originally possessing.
>Augment: By spending an additional 4 power points, this power may target an unwilling, living creature touched, unless they succeed on a Will save. Power resistance provides protection from this use as normal.

>>43613662
>implied

>For a violated horn to have special power, it must physically violate a victim during a perverse religious ritual conducted atop an altar dedicated to an evil god.

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>BoVD coming up again in 2015

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>>43613382

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I am in a 3rd-level, 20-point-buy campaign that is supposed to be "for optimized characters."

After some class choice rearrangements, we have in the party an oracle (either Lunar, Life, or Nature), a magus (hexcrafter), and a custom high tier 2 class written by the GM.

We also have an aether kineticist whom I had to persuade to take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot (they had two Skill Focus feats in place of those previously).

We also have a swashbuckler with Strength 12, Dexterity 14, Charisma 19 (that Charmed Life is simply a must, you know?), and plain leather armor as their source of armor bonus.

>+1 Wakizashi (Main Hand)
>Wakizashi (Off-hand)

Ah, yes, the swashbuckler is also two-weapon fighting with wakizashis without the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. I repeat, without.

How quickly will the kineticist and the swashbuckler turn into "comic relief" once we reach 4th-level?

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>>43613831
>yfw Paizo announces a PF version in 2016
Then again, theres a magic mask that lets you fuck animals to have viable offspring in Pathfinder already. I don't think it would be easy to top that without printing flat out pornography.

>>43613882
>implying they aren't already.

>>43613899
leves 1-4 are basically "Are you not dead? Okay, you can contribute to the encounter".

>>43612938
>Danodaemons
>death in restful sleep
>murder or disease during sleep
>they take the forms of giant snails
>upon their shells are bright swirling patterns of color
>because of their connections with dreams, they are highly psychic
>they communicate using telepathy, and can read the thoughts of others, and they can use powerful telekinesis and other such abilitiest
>they can even dominate other beings
>they are very lazy, preferring to sleep in their warm, cozy, and extremely strong shells rather then fight or work
>they will attack if something refuses to leave them in peace, or endangers future sleeping

>>43613882
>Cirnaka
my body is not ready

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>>43613382
>>43613841
Do you mean the Talisman of Spying from Black Markets?

>>43613916
>twf without the feat
No, that man cannot contribute. He will literally never hit on a roll lower than 12+.

It's not even something stupidly gimmicky like two Rapiers.

>>43613948
No, it cost like 60,000gp. I believe it was a screenshot from Weapon Master's Handbook?

>>43613761

Huh, that's more blatant than I remember. I just remember how silly seemed.

>"What's a really evil thing you could do with a unicorn horn?"
>"I dunno, you could fuck somebody with it."


>>43613882

>TWF without feat

What the actual fuck?

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>>43611246
the post
>>43610951
pls respond

>>43613958
I didn't even read that part, holy shit.

WHY?

>>43613978
WMH doesn't seem to have any magic items besides weapons

>>43612933
Disrupt Undead.

BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT PHARASMA

How can I change these stats for a chicken in one way that makes them a threatening encounter?

Size/Type: Tiny Animal
Hit Dice: 1/4 d8 (1 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares), fly 20 ft. (poor)
Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +2 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–13
Attack: Claws +4 melee (1d2–5)
Full Attack: Claws +4 melee (1d2–5)
Space/Reach: 2-1/2 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +2
Abilities: Str 1, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills: Listen +3 +5, Spot +5 +7
Feats: Alertness, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Temperate forests
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1/6
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

>>43614315
Make it gargatuan, breath fire, etc. Make the Demon Chicken

>>43614315
Ranged Attack: mwk revolver +5

>>43614315
Legend of Zelda chicken swarm. There is no stopping, just endless beaks.

>>43614315
Could start by updating it to Pathfinder. Or finding a Pathfinder chicken.

>>43614315
Terry Goodkind is that you?

>>43614315
look up medusa
give it a paralyzing glare
they found a baby basilisk
despair

>>43614315
Quickened Mordenkainen's disjunction at will

>>43614429
Thats just plain evil.

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>joined a new game with complete strangers
>had tons of fun and the group doesn't make me want to kill myself
>DMs (plural) are active and have been doing this for some time, definitely have their shit together and so the game collapsing partway through is unlikely
So this is what having fun is like. I had almost forgotten.

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CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:

A discovery line that grants a Promethean Alchemist's Homunculus access to elemental spells of a single energy type as spell-like abilities, DR to the chosen energy type, an additional 1d6 energy damage to natural attacks, and the ability to use the spell-like abilities as though it had the Magus' Natural attack. Assume that it chews up most of the Alchemist's discoveries.

How retarded is this? Pic related.
Thinking up ridiculous things and trying to do them in the system is one of my few sources of amusement.

>>43614512
So give them the Elemental Mutagen discovery coupled with Elemental Touch?

>>43614512
Magus's spell combat, not natural attack

>>43614315
>Special Attacks: Duplicated into two full health versions of itself after receiving any damage, even if that damage were to instantly kill the chicken.
Chickens still do 1 damage per hit if they hit right?

>>43614315
I am reminded of that Legend of Zelda flash animation - 4swords misadventures. The Ultra Cock.

>>43614619
I can see the situation now. The party is searching for a mad wizard's hideout and comes upon a town overrun by chickens. The chickens seem calm and the villagers are unusually careful about what they're doing around the chickens. When one of the PCs inevitably tries to catch/kill/eat one it multiplies and they discover the mad wizard's plan of unleashing these creations via teleporting platforms throughout the kingdom until the entire continent is swarmed with endless clucking.

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So, /pfg/, I ask you: what are some interesting/unusual 1 or two feat combinations? I have a couple of slots left and my party already has the usual combinations taken, so I'm looking for something out of the ordinary.

I'm playing an oracle or magus, haven't decided which yet.

pic unrelated

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>get told Spheres of Power "fixes magic" in PF
>read
>literally nothing on magic items or what to do with them in the spheres system

I mean, this is a nice little supplement and a good effort, but what the fuck? PF is crazy dependent on magic items and their rules. How can you seriously propose an alternate magic system that doesn't even mention them? How does one even approach item creation once you dump vanilla caster levels and spells for a fully sphere system? Am I retarded and just missed the huge fuckoff chapter on sphere items and item creation that surely must exist?

>Be dumb ass orc brawler
>push a magic desk full of tombs into a fire pit in a deep dark mine
>DM says it initiated a rumbling
>Sorcerer party member detects magic, gets a high score
>DM says it is an extremely powerful wizard's fireball being cast
>run out from the mine as a group, everyone makes a reflex save to dodge a fireball, hitting a gate locking us into the complex
>My dumb brawler befriends a friendly skeleton miner, and named him Chuckles
>Celebrates by buying out the entire Inn that night

My dumb as shit brawler is fun, mainly because I'm so dumb, the DM rules that I need to roll to be able to find doors, and open doors.

>>43614784
What race? Because elves, drows, dwarves, any long lived race would let you take Breadth of Experience, which is great if your party lacks a walking encyclopedia.

>>43614784
Isn't there a way to basically use eschew materials on the requirement for potion materials?

>>43614867
Did you buy it, or did you pirate it? One of the links passed around here is outdated.

>>43614874

Probably sylph or human. That's a nice feat, but our fighter's familiar (yes, he took that feat) took the Sage archetype and knows more than half the party. We're unusually good on Knowledge, in fact, which is part of why I feel okay screwing around with feats.

>>43614876

Interesting idea, but not that I know of.

>>43614867
There's information for magical items in one of the later editions, do you have the most recent one? I know that mine's out of date since the Sphere Druid got nerfed in the most recent version.

>>43615022
>but our fighter's familiar (yes, he took that feat) took the Sage archetype and knows more than half the party

Never discount the sage familiar for that is the Lore Warden's best friend.

Incidentally, an Eldritch Guardian with a mauler archetype dweomercat cub familiar becoming a Brown Fur Transmuter is probably the ONLY way to make a very powerfully combat viable anti-caster "animal companion"

>>43615114
I really wish there was an archetype or feat to make me pick an animal from the familiar and improved familiar table as an animal companion that functions as both.

I'd like a combat and caster-worthy faerie dragon bro.

>>43612933
I thought Pharasma didn't do anything? Something happen?

>>43615358
Don't listen to them, /pfg/, more often than not, likes memeing about how Geb is the best place ever. The sheer inability to accept the reality of death here is almost disturbing.

What stuff should my Lore Oracle do in combat besides buffing? I considered summoning but the duration is awful

>>43614941
>>43615030

I was using the link spread around in /pfg/, so apparently I'm not judging this based on up to date material. Fair enough.

I was told about spheres by a player and encouraged to check it out, so I did. I'm a little reluctant to put down money unless I feel like I'm actually getting a complete product, though. Is the present state of spheres magic items something that could actually substitute for the whole existing magic item and item creation system in PF?

I mean, I houserule things to death, so I can deal with adapting systems and filling in gaps, but the idea of creating a new magic item system from scratch or with only vague hints makes me shudder.

>>43615533
It's got current information on how you can convert most of the "general" items (the +X magical armor and weapon effects, Belts/Headbands of +Attribute, Cloak of Resistance/Bracers of Armor, etc), and some rules on how things like Rings, most other Wondrous Items, Rods, and Staves work differently in the Spheres system. The biggest difference is that Staves work exactly like Magic Weapons, except instead of granting you a bonus to attack/damage rolls and a new ability, they instead are aligned to a specific Sphere and grant a bonus to Caster Level for that sphere (or add talents from said sphere for them to use).

>>43612938
>Xerdaemons
>represent death through beheading
>they look like decrepit, filthy humaoids with no heads wearing tattered silk robes
>they can create new heads by vomiting them through a gaping wound in their chest
>these heads have no faces, long oily hair, and have 6 fleshy tentacles coming out of the base of their stump
>the xerdaemon can place one of these heads above the stump of it's neck, causing it to float theree, allowing it to use the cantrip spell like abilities it has
>otherwise it can send them off as drones, spies, or cannon fodder
>they are very domineering, and are often slavemasters or military commanders in daemonic societies
>they are fond of the decapitation of body parts, and will often leave guillotines or large axes around their lairs for personel preference

>>43615022
>>43615114
>Lore Warden Myrmidon with Versatile Training and a Sage Familiar
Jesus Christ. That's what, 13+Int skill ranks per level? And a bonus on Knowledge skills?

>>43615358
>>43615358
It's a long story, but let's just cut it down to:

- TN but acting lawful so Aeons have to fix the multiverse
- giant soul scam
- could have stopped Rubadub but instead sat on her divine ass
- is at least partially responsible for the Age of Lost Omens
- mindwipes all souls that pass through her court resulting in death of the self even though this doesn't need to happen
- may or may not have turned Aroden's corpse/soul into her divine servitor minion

>>43615996
What's Versatile Training?

>>43615996

>tfw you will never play a campaign where the fighter is the most clued-in character in the party

>>43616054
Because then everyone would bitch why he didn't just roll a magus or a wizard.

>>43615996
Toss in Breadth of Experience for a +2 to all knowledge and profession skills.

Take note - some DMs are lenient with using profession: something in place of mundane skill checks

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>>43613882

Status update: I have salvaged the situation somewhat by persuading the swashbuckler to invest in Two-Weapon Fighting, but no more.

Whats a good weapon enhancement for the Soulknife to take with Personalized Trick trait?

Linked Striking +2 is now part of the Pisonics Augmented, so that's pretty good and frees up my choices.

Would dispelling be good?

>>43616020
It's an ability fighters can get with a feat or by trading Weapon Training 2+; it's like bard's Versatile Performance except it's BAB-based and applies to 4~5 skills.

>>43615996
>>43616054
Now imagine if Myrmidon was based on Int instead of Wis.

>>43616323
I still wish there was a way to change what your initiating stat is.

>>43612938
>Malignadaemon
>Death from infected wounds
>Appearing as a swollen corpse riddled with abrasions and shallow cuts
>giant leach in place of a head
>Host to vile diseases that
>regurgitates negative energy laced ichor into foes to cripple/nauseate them and cultivate a new diseases.

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Folks were talking about Bloodforge last thread. I am now here to help. Were there questions or feedback remaining?

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>>43616323
It's a shame that Kung-Fu Genius or Carmaldine Monk aren't really things anymore in Pathfinder, that'd be amazing to see for the INT-Myrmidon.

>INT-Myrmidon with Elemental Flux

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>>43616400
nope, however
>>43614028
Elric disappeared before answering.

>>43616400
I have a question about Bloodforge. How much of it did you write? Because there's a couple of errors that I've seen while looking through it; one of the biggest being that a Wulfkin still gets the Mixed Blood (Cold) feat even if they trade out everything involving Winter Wolves and cold abilities, up-to-and-including gaining a fiery breath instead of an icy one.

/pfg/, would you let your DM get away with the sort of stuff that happens in Paizo's published APs if it were instead your DM's own custom campaign? Does "Don't blame me, that's what's in the book!" get your DM any slack?

Also, general complaints about whatever adventure paths you're playing through.

>>43616488
>"Don't blame me, that's what's in the book!"
My GM knows better than that.

>>43616488
What kind of stuff specifically?

>>43616488
I haven't played and APs in a while, and when I did the GM changed a bunch of stuff around.
I've played and run PFS games though, so I know the sort of things you are referring to. As soon as you stop playing PFS you don't need to go by the letter of the AP and are free to change stuff.

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>>43616455
I wrote that one, but we got it in the errata. I need to check with the boss if the PDF got updated for re-download yet or not; IIRC we were waiting on the print version to do that. Either way, I appreciate the catch. Bloodforge kinda suffered from lack of playtesting and lack of editing, hence the swift turnaround on trying to get errata done. It...was a learning experience.

As for how much I wrote in general, I wrote the lion's share of the races (I did not write the half-gnolls, half-goblinoids, or the sthein - those were my esteemed co-author, Matt), the prestige classes, and most of the feats with balance & editing help from Matt. Matt wrote all the templates (ALLL THE TEMPLAAAAATES), all but one of the items & wrote the spells with balance and editing help from me.

>>43616417
I'm honestly not comfortable answering Thunder questions; that's ErrantX and Elric in a big way. 'm sorry to say it like that, but if you don't mind waiting I'm sure he'll be back tomorrow.

>>43616516
I don't have anything particular in mind, I'm kind of asking as a general thing. I'm just wondering if most people give a campaign from a book more leeway than one the DM is making himself. I mean, obviously there's some stuff even if the published APs that goes too far. The meeting with Iomadae in WotR comes to mind. But I'm sure there are some smaller things in the various APs- parts that are too bullshit difficult, things that don't make logical sense, plot holes, or blatant rail roads.

>>43616562
So do you think you (or your players) are more willing to put up with the bullshit kind of stuff when it's just straight from a book? If hypothetically you didn't change stuff up to make it work better, either because it would have been more work than is reasonable to put in or something unexpected coming up that you weren't ready for, you could probably just shrug it off as being "Well that's what the book says." and pin it on the authors, whereas if it were a campaign you made from scratch you are the author.

Is vanilla Warder completely outstripped by Zweihander Sentinel? I like the thought of being a sword-&-board guy, but I don't want the rest of the party to see me as dead weight, either.

I was planning to focus on Iron Tortoise & Eternal Guardian, though my friends keep telling me to go ZS with Scarlet Throne and Riven Hourglass, since I'll be just as effective, but do way more damage.

>>43616580
Just how deep does your elf fetish run friend? Elves have the majority of exclusive half-breeds and also can be half of most of the half-breeds.

Was it intentional or just a byproduct of deeply ingrained love of their evil cannibal ways?

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>>43616603
Fair enough
I shall wait
Spears need more love, and damage/charging, mediocre damage at that is just a bit lacking compared to some other disciplines.

>>43616266
You can't use dispelling since Soulknives can't prep or cast dispell magic

Exhausting, which is +3 is great for crit-build mindblades.

Fortuitous, which is +1 and Interfering, which is +5 is great for psychic armories. Fortuitous adds an extra hit to your AoO and Interfering increases your Threatened Area to 30ft.

And from what Garret said several generals ago, a Mindblade can be given the Dancing +3 or Flying +5 enhancements so you can have multiple mindblades attacking enemies from automatically

Personally, I'm a fan of Growing +1 and Impact +2 to make your mindblade 2 Size Categories larger (Which you can stack with Primal Fury for another 2 Size Category damage boost)

>>43616488
>"Don't blame me, that's what's in the book!"

Everyone in our group knows the Book isn't sacrosanct and merely a guideline.
Part of tabletop game's good points is absolute freedom and no amount of rules can cover all the angles a player can do.

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>>43616670
Pretty fucking deep, but this was not actually my decision. When I got put on the project that would eventually become Bloodforge and we finally realized that we'd have to burn the original to the ground, we were /required/ to keep the original artwork and most of the race names/concepts. In turn, those concepts - and thus the art - were based on the originals in Bastards and Bloodlines, which had a fuckton of elves.

So with all these elf-likes in the artwork, I ended up with a bunch of elf-breeds or elf-enabled breeds. If I'd been able to define the race concepts for myself they probably would have been quite a bit different, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Maybe we can do something different in the future.

TL;DR I didn't pick the concepts, I just un-fucked them to the best of my ability. My success or failure in that regard is for you to determine.

>>43616729
>gifted blade
>Expanded Knowledge (dispel psionics)

>>43616776
Its usefulness depends if your DM allows magic-psionic transparency and how often you encounter casters in the DM's games.

>>43616761
What's your top 3 favourite races in Bloodforge?

>>43616776
At very high levels, sure.

Why not just use Suppressing. It's a +2 that dispels based on... The manifester level of the weapon, I think, which is probably your soulknife level.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psionic-items/psionic-weapons#TOC-Suppression

>>43616761
I'd love for a book of construct/plant/aberration/undead/magical beast races. Something really freaky that would make things a bit interesting.

A follow up question: Who wrote the Lurker's Wilder Favored Class Bonus. It's... very strong.

>>43616729
>Growing +1 and Impact +2 to make your mindblade 2 Size Categories larger (Which you can stack with Primal Fury for another 2 Size Category damage boost)

So Linked Striking +2, Growing +1, Impact +2 for a +5 Huge Weapon.

With Primal Fury stance, its now Gargantuan.

Sweet. A greatsword of that size does how much damage again?

>>43616761
Is there any update on how the Awakened Blade actually works now?

>>43616839
Effective size increases don't stack with each other. Impact doesn't stack with Primal Fury, although Growing would.

>>43616668
For the most part, yes it is. There are ways around it but they are feat intensive and tend to use full-attacks over maneuvers.

For instance, the TWF+shield bash+iron tortoise style feat chain+trait into thrashing dragon will create a destructive full-attack spamming monster.

In general though, Zweihander is just better. A base Warder that does not do TWF stuff will never be dead weight, but they won't be as helpful as other initiators.

With Pikemen's Training, you can go sword and pole weapon pretty easily, in case that suits you.

Also keep in mind Riven Hourglass is on its way to nerf central.

>>43616839
If you're a level 20 Soulknife and still haven't gotten a +2,+3,+4 Crystalline Focus item that automatically imparts the Linked Striking enhancement to all your mindblades, you're doing something wrong.

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>>43616867
>Also keep in mind Riven Hourglass is on its way to nerf central.
What, why is this? It's super solid, others should be brought up to it, not bring it down.

>>43616668
You could always be a cheasy git and use Broken Blade stuff + Iron Tortoise Style feat chain to pulp everything you see with your shield. Remember, shields are part of the close weapon group, so Broken Blade is dumb with them. Broken Blade even adds a free +2 static to it. Its a dickbag move, but so it using Riven Hourglass.

>>43616652
Players? yeah, me? yeah.
People are usually playing modules to completion with a beat the book (or a 'just to say we did it') attitude.

>>43616908
Small nerfs to bring it in line because it was the single best discipline in PoW, iirc. Amazing damage, amazing utility and debuffs, especially at low levels with their no-save shit.

>>43616867
Well, my goal was to basically plant myself between my party & the bad guys, then abuse shield bashes, OAs, and counters. I want to be the toughest, most diehard thing on the field, and I want to be even more dangerous on my enemy's turn than my own.

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>>43616816
> Let me just look at this to remind myself -
> Spittake.exe

I don't know but I'm gonna kill that shit with fire real fucking fast. Thank you for the catch.

>>43616801
Hrm.

1. Dreige. Got to hit a lot of notes that I like with this one; empathy vs. vengeance, lost legacies, fey and fey accessories, loyalty and betrayal, iron, bigass hammers. Was fun to write; was more fun when I remembered that they were generic crap before.

2. Half-gnoll. Matt did good work. Like the mechanics, like the backstory, interesting to see a race expected to compete as equals against those with more native advantages.

3. Houri. This one just /clicked/. Was fun to write out, to ponder the consequences of their parentage and how it would affect their development. Art update was one of the first major successes too (pic related).

>>43616729
>And from what Garret said several generals ago, a Mindblade can be given the Dancing +3 or Flying +5 enhancements so you can have multiple mindblades attacking enemies from automatically

Bit of a noob question.
Does multiple flying mindblades = multiple full attacks or are they all just using my TBAB?

>>43616991

It's multiple full attacks, but their attack bonus is kinda shit, and it takes an action to loose them, AND they only last a couple rounds, so... It's not as good as it seems.

>>43616954
Well, base Warder has a bigger Aegis aura. That is pretty neat.
I think this is your best bet at making shield bashes magically delicious >>43616916 Pikeman's Training might help since it will give you even more reach to deny with. Even better when you use Iron Tortoise Stance or that 5th level Piercing Thunder stance to get even more reach.

>>43616816
>>43616963
What was it? I don't think I saw.

Is there a feat to use a strike in place of the normal attack delivered when using Spring Attack?

Is such a feat enough to make Spring Attack viable without 3.5e content?

>>43617059
+1 Wild Surge Bonus every 5 levels. It's pretty intense.

>>43617031
>AND they only last a couple rounds, so
4 round actually, which translates to 4 flying mindblades each doing separate actions or ganging up on a single target which is totally feasible since soulknives can manifest mindblades as a... 'free action'(?)

>>43616908
>What, why is this?

Can't let the martials be *too* powerful, anon.

Same reason they're nerfing Broken Blade and Primal Fury.

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>>43616963
Can we be best bros?

>>43617092
So if you spend a trait (Personalized Trick), +4 of your mind blade bonus (attainable at level 11), for up to four at once (if you loose one every round), but their attack bonus is shit (just BAB, as far as I can tell), and they can't be thrown. Seems like a decent trick, but not really game-breaking.

>>43617159
Who is this frisky pixie?

>>43617183
>they can't be thrown.
The Flying enhancement is an upgrade to the Dancing. which makes the weapon work 30ft away from the wielder.

But yeah, using only your flat BAB is pretty weak but can probably be addressed by denying the enemy their AC or Dex.

>>43616729
Growing seems much better than Impact in the case of Soulknives. Each mindblade is independent if I recall so there is no limit to the duration of your Growing weapon.

Once your first growing mindblade's duration expires, just create a new one.

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>>43617159
Mmmmaaaaaaaybe.
Quiet terror is intensifying.

>>43617265
>10 minute duration
>1 minute = 4 rounds

Nigger what kind of games do you play that combat lasts that fucking long?

>>43617313
Uh, bro? A minute is 10 rounds.

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>>43617313
>Not playing hours long campaigns devoted purely to combat.

You're missing out mate

>>43617313
>>43617313
>1 minute = 4 rounds
Uuuuuh no. A round is 6 seconds, therefore 10 rounds is one minute.

you were wrong on the specifics, but my correction just brings your point up even further. There's nearly no way to have a combat that lasts more than 2 or 3 minutes, and that's with pure damage sponging and attack negation.

>>43617366
No lie. A 3 round encounter can last 2 hours in our table for several reasons:

>Player forgot what his spell/power/feature does and has to check the book
>Player is digging through his inventory for what is the best item for the encounter
>Player just quoted a tangentially funny quote from a movie or cartoons and devolves into hour-long quoteposting shenanigans
>Player wants to try something outlandish and DM peruses several pages of rules to see how it would play out
>DM drops a monstrous race and we're suddenly wondering magical realm bullshit like if a female lizardfolk is poikilothermic and needs the assistance of 'warm hands' to wake up
>People forgot their turn order (common when dealing with action economy nightmares like summoning and cohorts)
>Pizza just arrived and someone forgot to chip in

What character sheets do you all use?

>>43617550
Myth-weavers

>>43617550
Previously, a text document on gdocs, but lately I've been using http://charactersheet.co.uk/pathfinder/#/login

>>43617265

Hate to break it to you...

>Limited Use Enhancements and the Soulknife: Whenever a soulknife uses his Enhanced Mind Blade class feature (or equivalent ability) to enchant his mind blade (or equivalent ability) with an enhancement with a limited number of uses, such as is the case with the lucky enchantment, any uses the soulknife uses counts towards the daily limit and is not refreshed whenever the soulknife reform's the mind blade (or equivalent ability). The same should apply to other enchantments acquired such as from the Personalized Trick trait, that may have limited uses such as per encounter, etc. A soulknife with the Fluid Form bladeskill may still expend its psychic strike as a swift action to refresh these limited use enhancements on the mind blade (or equivalent ability) within the limits of the bladeskill.

From Psionics Augmented: Soulknife.

>>43616963
Gareth, question. Why is a ton of your work connected to darkness, loss, despair, sadness, etc? Like, I think you did the grand majority of the Harbinger class, among a lot of other projects with the same theme (such as some of your homebrew). Is that a stylistic choice, something personal and connected to you, or is it just a coincidence?

>>43617617
As I recall, he's also got a homebrew class back on the Gitp boards for 3.5 that's basically "I have an elder evil tucked away in my soul and I use it for power."

So yeah, it's definitely a theme.

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>>43617300
Since we're b r o s now can I make an Iconic for Path of War?

If not, that's cool too.

>>43617617
>>43617658
Don't beat around the bush.

Gareth, why are you so edgy?

>>43617671
If you're donating art, that'd be nice. Save us from the zealot pls

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>>43617746
Huh? Save you from what? I haven't seen any art for Zealot yet.

>>43617617
>>43617658
>>43617672

But Gareth also wrote the Knight Chandler, he can't be all darkness!

>>43617839
Nova's last act before he was kicked out/left was to finish some horribly unfitting art for the zealot. It's not objectively bad so much as it is completely dissimilar to what a zealot is portrayed as being. DSP can't change it short of shelling out $200.

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>>43617870
>>43617839
BEHOLD

>>43617889
Jesus christ.

>>43617889
>HELP ME I'M COVERED IN CLAMS

>>43617889
Is he a maenad?

>>43617889
Are those...piercings?

>>43617870
I mean, I understand how that can be frustrating, but it's also up to Gareth/ErrantX/Whomever to give their artists direction in what it is exactly they want.

What I think a zealot is, and what the DSP guys think a zealot should be are likely very different things.

>>43617889
i like the art
just not for the zealot
be great for a more natura focused initiator

>>43617994
Given Nova's track record, I doubt he stuck to what direction he was given.

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>>43617999
Wildshape Initiator when? Werewolf-themed Harbinger archetype when?

>>43617889
The brushwork is actually pretty sloppy for something that should go on a book cover.

Ssalarn was up for the idea of turning this into art for the Pharaoh instead, except the tattoo marks on his body don't pass off as egyptian - if we actually managed to photoshop all those markings (and maybe the shiny blue things) away, would that open up the possibility of swapping in the art budget from the pharaoh to the Zealot?

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>>43617671
They're already spoken for, sadly.

>>43617617
>>43617658
>>43617672
>>43617867
I've seen and done Some Shit. Not as bad as some folks can claim, but...to be honest, my childhood was less than okay. As in, "Gareth got beat daily until Columbine scared people into being nice to him." I got to enjoy my first mugging when I was eight and the only reason I got out of that shit was because my psychotic cousin brought a knife to a gun fight and then taught me about the magic of first aid. All in all I coulda gotten out worse but that shit'll leave a guy a kinda way; I got bitter early, and I got bitter /deep/.

When it comes to my writing, I often like to explore the idea of people who've been put through hell but decide to try to be good people anyway, though that's not the whole story; I also, for instance, like debuffs as a mechanical theme and it's hard to flavor those in a non-negative fashion, so more negativity comes out when I write them.

But as anon pointed out, I do very positive things too. They don't get as much press, and admittedly they're a smaller amount of the work, but I love themes like loyalty, hope, compassion, and friendship. Stick around me long enough and you'll hear me say some variation on 'Loyalty is a circle'. These things matter to me, and I'm hoping I can make them come out a bit in an upcoming, albeit still secret, project.

Not sure if I answered this as fully as you'd like so feel free to follow up.

>>43617994
no, pretty much just Nova is the only one happy with the art for the zealot. gareth has expressed his displeasure

>>43618042
Honestly, most people don't own up to and adequately explain their edginess.

As someone who has also done Some Shit, I can respect that.

>>43618042
Speaking of upcoming projects, is there any plan to have Sslarn get some assistance on his numerous projects before they just get de facto abandoned?

>>43616865
Primal Warrior Stance explicitly says it stacks with other size effects.

>>43618094
That's up to him. If he wants a team he'll recruit one; he has before, and that's his right. If the bossman feels he needs one, he'll be assigned one.

>>43618042
I haven't gone through that sort of thing, but I've known people who have. The fact that you can talk about it, and how much you go into the idea of a Knight in Sour Armor, to use a TV Tropes term? It speaks well of you, man.

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>>43618042
Even if it's for something like Knight Chandler, Discordant Crusader or Brutal Slayer?

Because those are all things I'm playing right now, and I'm having a lot of fun. Oh well.

Does the Zealot actually have any archetypes? If not, why doesn't it when all the other classes do?

Also are there any really good crafting classes in first party and DSP?

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>>43617870
>>43618055
WHICH REMINDS ME.

So, talked to the bossman about /tg/'s desire to help re: this. Essentially, Bossman: Viking Edition has two objections; one, it's our fuckup (we weren't paying the fuck attention) and two, there's legal & ethical issues with accepting money for the art. It's one thing to have a piece donated to us; it's another to fundraise to replace it. These factors mean it's highly, highly likely that Zealot will be going through with its current artwork, though we appreciate the thoughts.

>>43618132
Art budget bro. Besides, Knight-Chandler has an iconic that you'll be meeting at some point - Wednesday Rivers (a not!egyptian girl with a Norse name worshiping Irish gods - it's not her fault. Her parents were not clever people).

>>43618105
It stacks with actual size effects, as normal. Then the FAQ on size stacking comes in and says it doesn't stack with effective size increases.

>>43618160
>Also are there any really good crafting classes in first party and DSP?
The Downtime guide in the OP pastebin can make anyone into a worthy crafter, but Arcanists and Wizards can gain bonus crafting feats, which helps significantly. A certain Cleric (maybe it was Warpriest?) Archetype can get Craft Arms and Armor at 3rd, if that's interesting to you, and Wizard can take Staff-Like Wand at 10th (11th?) To turn Wands into efficient offensive tools.

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>>43618160
Psion has a crafting archetype, and Steelforge introduces archetype & PrC support for crafting as well.

>>43618089
>>43618120
I 'preciate it. I generally try not to make a big deal; I answered because I was asked, but generally I'm of the opinion that if I keep cutting my wrists over the shit I'm never gonna move on. Things have gotten better as I've grown older and learned how to Human Being properly, so there's that.

>>43618160
PoW Mystic is an amazing crafter.

>>43618210
>Psion has a crafting archetype,
Which one? The only one I know of is shit, but my information is sort of outdated.

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>>43618173
I work LITERALLY for free.

Traditional Games isn't about getting paid for me, it's about making something fucking radical, and having fun.

And being the little girl.

>>43618189
Although the Downtime Guide is good for being mechanically fluff strong, I think it doesn't actually help you break WBL as you only get to count things at their cost if you make them yourself. Wizards and Arcanists are good, but they are more based on their whole 9th level casting shtick.

>>43618210
Oh, the Steelforge Prestige Class is excellent, but what's the best base for it?

>>43618222
What makes it so amazing?

>>43618229
What sort of art have you drawn? Can we see?

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>>43617671
>>43617839

Kitsune are #2 Waifu.

>>43618232
They have an arcane caster level for the purpose of crafting, and get the ability to simulate having spells available.

>>43618232
Mystic can emulate spells they don't have in a way similar to a 3.5 artificer. They don't have the sort of bonus feat and crafting support (and infusions) that made the artificer BROKEN, but they can do stuff like craft scrolls and wands, emulate spells, and make lots of items, all off their Spellcraft checks.

>>43618247
>Aghash are number 1
At least, they should be.

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>>43618247
That they are. Sylphs are #1.

>>43618232
>but what's the best base for it?
As I recall, it was specifically designed so that there wasn't a "best" base class for it, but if you really want to push that the best one is probably a class that can take a wide assortment of crafting feats in the earlier levels and is intelligence based. this means Psion, Wizard, Arcanist, and the Artisan class are the best choices. Alchemist is also an excellent entry class, but lacks the ability to take crafting feats before entering the PrC.

>>43618262

Huldra will always be #1.

>>43618232
>I think it doesn't actually help you break WBL as you only get to count things at their cost if you make them yourself.

You can get the cost of items down to 3% of market value for literally anyone who works for you that has a crafting feat, because most of it is about manipulation of Capital, which anybody can use. There is a horrifyingly low input cost (irony, considering you need capital to use Capital), after which point you can support a massive network of crafters, all RAW supported.

>>43618253
>and get the ability to simulate having spells available.
Important: Can they at any point use their own ability scores, caster level, and feats etc. When determining the variable portions of a spell like DC, duration, etc. Cast from a wand, scroll, or potion, etc. ?

>>43618228
Mindwright. Dunno how good it is or isn't but 's crafting themed.

>>43618229
Yeah that shit's not gonna fly. I tried to offer to work for free to get certain projects augmented/accepted and the bossman literally forced me to take payment. That said, we've done pay-in-trade and bounties before. Email 'im at [email protected] - express your interest, include some samples of your art. We've got a few things that need art - and honestly, depending on how cheap you work (and how much you'll hate me for a six-character scene with background) the Mourners ebook needs a cover.

One of my players decided to roll a Spirit Guide Oracle and I'm torn on what spirits I should be allowing that character to bond with.

The character is a True Neutral Lore Oracle of Norgorber. (more of the keeper/finder of secrets type, than the murdering one)

The player reasoned that the character could gain access to pretty much all of the Spirits, The character has knowledge of a lot of obscure lore and his alignment shouldn't restrict. While the player had good points there, the character still is worshiping the god of murder, so I shouldn't allow just anything in my opinion.

What do you guys allow Spirit Guides to pick? I'm trying to find a compromise between not giving all spirits, and not making the archetype useless.

>>43618284
I was remembering the FAQ wrong, it does actually work:
PC Wealth By Level: If a PC has an item crafting feat, does a crafted item count as its Price or its Cost?
It counts as the item's Cost, not the Price. This comes into play in two ways.

If you're equipping a higher-level PC, you have to count crafted items at their Cost. Otherwise the character isn't getting any benefit for having the feat. Of course, the GM is free to set limits in equipping the character, such as "no more than 40% of your wealth can be used for armor" (instead of the "balanced approach" described on page 400 where the PC should spend no more than 25% on armor).

If you're looking at the party's overall wealth by level, you have to count crafted items at their Cost. Otherwise, if you counted crafted items at their Price, the crafting character would look like she had more wealth than appropriate for her level, and the GM would have to to bring this closer to the target gear value by reducing future treasure for that character, which means eventually that character has the same gear value as a non-crafting character--in effect neutralizing any advantage of having that feat at all.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9ouz

Remember that FAQ if your DM is a stickler.

>>43618306
Honestly?

Spirit Guides get ONE hex from ONE spirit per day, along with the spirit magic spells as spells known.

It's hardly game breaking, and most Spirits are pretty tame.

I mean, he's TN, and while he worships the Murderlator, if he isn't Murderlating for the wrong reasons, he'll stay that way.

If I were you, I'd let him pick whatever spirit he wants, but the spirits are unique individuals who were at one point murderlated by someone and they constantly try to influence his behavior.

>>43618306
Oracle of just one god? No others suit the character's goals as well?

>>43618330
Oh.

Yeah, no, any DM that doesn't in some way allow WBL to be used in crafting is a shitter. I'm not burning my feats to get null for it.

I usually restrict players in my games to spend their wealth in a way that makes sense from the perspective of them leveling up over time; I don't allow them to save up their wealth for more than 3 levels at once, because it becomes far too unlikely that they would have survived for more than that many levels without any new equipment. This is because the game assumes that the PCs have certain amounts of Magical Stuff for balance purposes. It's a restriction mostly to keep people from putting all their eggs in one basket, and I actually hand out more than WBL in actual play because I tend to hand them enough consumables that they don't have to spend as much of their treasure on it. They're free to do so, but giving them potions of simple staples means they can spend money on other, more unusual stuff.

>>43618439
I was mainly referring to the lack of it specifying that you have to craft things yourself if you want to get the WBL bonus of crafting. You do have to have a crafting feat for it to count though.

>>43618458
Mythic games throw that whole bit out the window, though.

>>43618353

> the spirits are unique individuals who were at one point murderlated by someone and they constantly try to influence his behavior.

I like this one a lot. It would certainly make things more interesting.

I normally try not to meddle with character building but the Spirit Guide specifically says "at the GM's discretion", so I assumed that the book didn't want all of the Spirits to be unlocked.

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>>43618298
I just got a new computer after my old one died. I don't have anything I believe is worth showing to you guys.

But I shall return, and when I do it will be with art!

>>43618466
Mythic throws it through the WALL.

>>43618517
>the Spirit Guide specifically says "at the GM's discretion",
It says that in a lot of places, I think non-deity worshiping Clerics have a similar line regarding domain selection. It's generally accepted to be more of a "The GM might say you can't", rather than "Ask before you pick anything", but ultimately it's up to you either way. Best thing to do is just ask the player what they plan to do with it and balance on a case by case basis, using the rest of the party as your thermometer.

>>43618551
Rank 1 Archmage: I habe all da feats. Gibe Wands at 1st level nao.

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>>43618529
I look forward to it, Vaguely Frightening Anon. Time may be of the essence, though honestly with how hard we're being slapped around by the demon Murphy I wouldn't quote me on that.

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>Pixiv Fantasia just updated with new art
>One of them is a female ravenlord

Is there anything stronger for mythic blasting than fireball? It seems like nothing else can even come close, disintegrate in particular is a little underwhelming considering it targets fort, although spell focus in transmutation seems much stronger than evocation.

>>43618705
Anon that is clearly a horned owl.

>>43618725
Yeah, but the RAI from >>43602664 is:

>Anything you feel comfortable representing with the Bird stats from the animal companion list.

Horned owllord is totally valid.

>>43618718
It's strong enough that you usually don't need to bother, though with the Trait that adds 1 Force damage to all damaging spells, Persistent Dazing Geyser is generally better to cast, slot for slot, because with sufficient DC boosting you can lock enemies down in a massive radius long enough for your allies to shoot them to death.

>>43618718
Mythic cloudkill with mythic paragon. Especially when it ignores poison immunity.

>>43618760
Still doesn't work on things without a CON score.

>>43618173
Gareth, what do you think re: this idea? >>43618026

Because it actually seems a bit tedious but doable.

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>>43618705

I use this for a Ravenlord.

>>43618766
>being this fucking stupid
"These vapors automatically kill any living creature with 3 or fewer HD (no save)."

" Add your tier to the spell’s level and Hit Dice categories to determine its effect on creatures. (For example, at 3rd tier a creature with 6 or fewer HD gets no save, one with 7–9 HD must save or die"

Do I need to quote mythic paragon too?

>>43618742
>yfw da harbinger gains da superb owl

>>43618801

>Living

Anon, if something has no Con, it's not a living creature.

>>43618801
>"These vapors automatically kill any living creature
>living
>creature
>no CON score means not alive
You're the fucking stupid one, mate.
And even at Tier 10, that's only 13HD creatures. So it's still shit.

>>43618816
>>43618820
If it's not dead it's living. I could maybe understand undead, maybe, but the point is they're sort of alive. If you can quote me a rule saying that, I'll accept it. Also you apparently actually do need to read mythic paragon.

>>43618718

Mythic fireballs disadvantage is evasion and improved evasion, disintegrate has an advantage in just dealing untyped damage but I don't know if it's worth tangling with fort saves which are something like 10 points higher across the board.

>>43618864
It's not. Blasting has always been and will always be for keks.

>>43618820
>>43618816
Either it's dead or it's alive. There is no other. Next you SJWs will be telling me you're third gender and want to smash the gender binary.

>>43618705
Didn't Paizo release a new medium archetype that had access to the deadly sins?

>>43618826
>being this fucking retarded
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jz5v?Living-Creature-Definition#4

If literally everything was living there would be no point specifying living creatures at all.

>>43618826
>constructs
>magically animated golems
>living
???

>>43618890
>listening to JJ
Holy shit you really are a SJW. He's not even a rules guy, he goes out of his way to say that. How are you this fucking dumb?

>>43618896
>animated
an·i·mat·ed
ˈanəˌmādəd/
adjective
1.
full of life or excitement; lively.
Yes, constructs and other magically ANIMATED objects are living.

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>>43618874
Didn't mean to quote

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>>43618890
>>43618872
>>43618896
>>43618911


Okay, this is absolutely fucking hilarious. As >>43618890 linked, there's a clarification on the forums.

The reason this clarification exists? Paizo /removed the definition of "living creature" from their game/ when they transitioned over from 3.5.

In 3.5, we had a nice set of rules detailing what exactly each ability score meant when they had a -- in its place: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities

>Constitution
>Any living creature has at least 1 point of Constitution. A creature with no Constitution has no body or no metabolism. It is immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless the effect works on objects or is harmless. The creature is also immune to ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain, and automatically fails Constitution checks. A creature with no Constitution cannot tire and thus can run indefinitely without tiring (unless the creature’s description says it cannot run).

Pathfinder appears to have kept the distinction while removing the text defining it, or at least its developers thing it did (because things still refer to the divide). Undead and Constructs have no Con scores, and have those immunities, but are never called out in the rules as being nonliving. Brilliant.

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>>43618911
>animated
>past tense of verb "animate"
>to make (something, such as a drawing) appear to move by creating a series of drawings, pictures, etc., and showing them quickly one after another : to make (something) appear to move by using the process of animation

>>43618872
Here's some stuff to shut you the fuck up.

>Spiritsense (Su) A psychopomp notices, locates, and can distinguish between living and undead creatures within 60 feet, just as if it possessed the blindsight ability.
If Undead were alive, they wouldn't need to be specifically mentioned here.

>Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces.
>Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
From the Undead type description. Undead things aren't alive, you fucking tool.

>>43618948
>whatthefuckamIreading.jpg

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>>43618948
>>43618962

>>43618955
A shame that animated is used as an adjective, not a verb.

>>43618948
Exactly, Paizo made them living creatures.

>>43618960
>trusting shit Paizo wrote
kek okay and I bet you use post-errata Crane Wing, Scarred Witch Doctor, and sacred fist too

>>43618948
Undead are specifically described as once-living, but Constructs aren't. The guy you're responding to, however, is just a troll, nobody who actually plays the game is that retarded.

>>43618986
>PFS exists

>>43618981
>>trusting shit Paizo wrote
>kek okay and I bet you use post-errata Crane Wing, Scarred Witch Doctor, and sacred fist too
This isn't errata you dense fuck, this is directly from the CRB and Bestiary 1, and have had that same text for as long as Pathfinder has existed as a standalone system. Fuck off.

>>43618981

Apparently they did, then they fucked it up and forgot about it. Yay for inconsistencies.

>>43618999
>thinking the CRB is good
>arguing with Paidrones
Why do I even bother? It's amazing how hard you fucks will try to slobber over JJ's cock the instant someone points out an inconsistency in the rules.

>>43618981
>I don't care what Paizo writes, I make my own rules!
But anon, we're not asking about your rules, we're asking about Paizo's rules.
>BUT THOSE RULES ARE DUUUUMB

>>43619013
Yes, the people quoting the 3.5 rulebook are the ones shilling for Paizo.

>Being this stupid

>>43619013
They're the exact same rules as what's written in the 3.5e Monster Manual 1 and Player's Handbook, so it's hardly JJ's doing. You're just trying to stir up shit.

>>43619027
He's a troll. Stop feeding him.

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>>43618705
Thanks for the heads up. Just found my next character

>>43619022
>>43619027
>>43619033
>>43619048
>4 posts in a row defending Paizo
Wew lads, you in the PIDF sure did a great job hijacking the thread and proving me wrong :^)

>>43619057
K.
We're going to go back to talking about ways to blast in Mythic games now.
Enjoy your giggles.

>>43619072
I think psions and wilders are still better at sheer numbers than Paizo's stuff. Isn't there that one DSP mythic path? Overmind? Might be useful.

>>43618995
>PFS exists
>They don't bother theorycrafting past 6th level
>They actually think fighter archetypes like Lore Warden and Eldritch Guardian are too strong and Paizo listened

Fuck don't remind me that Paizo listens to those idiots.

In their defense, Paizo didn't ask for feedback when they made the Packmule, the Kineticist and by extension, all of its shitty archetypes.

>>43619105
Oh shit, what'd they do to Eldritch Guardian? I haven't checked, and I have one made up already.

>>43619086
I skimmed Overmind, I'm not entirely sure it offers the same potential Mythic Fireball has for raw buckets of dice, though Psionics is way better at getting around annoying resistances and immunities. As far as I can tell, Psionics is still the best way to blast with sonic and negative energy damage, so there's that.

>>43619105
Kineticist had the largest discussion thread on their forums during the playtest by far and Paizo listened to fucking none of it when it came time to print. Medium, despite being the coolest playtest class by a long shot, was basically ignored.

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>>43619105
They asked for feedback. And got it. Never forget.

>>43619105
>the Kineticist and by extension, all of its shitty archetypes.

Wasn't there a Paizo dev who treated the Kineticist like his baby and never listened to any of the other devs telling him Burn is a stupid idea?

Paizo isn't exactly a unified front. They just want to project they are.

>>43619130
It didn't help that the thread was full of math-incapable retards that thought Burn was a good mechanic.

>>43619140
>Wasn't there a Paizo dev who treated the Kineticist like his baby and never listened to any of the other devs telling him Burn is a stupid idea?
None of them tried to tell him that, they're all retarded that way, but he ignored the feedback too.

>>43619140
>Paizo isn't exactly a unified front. They just want to project they are.
Are the joke Kineticist archetypes like the Ranged Gardener Kineticist and the Water Desalinator Kineticist just other devs passive-aggressively getting back at him for his bullshit?

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>>43619130
no this

>>43619173
Its more powerful to see it compared to the playtest feedback of the other classes.

>>43619130
>>43619150
One poster actually posted the tried and tested Kineticist vs Archer Warrior showing just how badly designed the Kineticist was in terms of damage and how counter burn was.

Too bad you have to dig through garbage to find that gem.

>>43619165
Nope. From what I recall, the same dev who treated the Kineticist as his baby, didn't want anyone else making a Kineticist archetype without his approval. This is all the rambling madness of one man and his custome made tier 5 class that he's so proud of.

>>43619173
>Psychic at 205
Yeah, nobody was complaining about the new full caster. I wonder fucking why.

>>43619186
>This is all the rambling madness of one man and his custome made tier 5 class that he's so proud of.
Jesus Christ why has he not been fired by now and why does nobody have any say over what he writes.

>>43619165
None of the devs would touch the Kineticist with a 15 ft. pole.

>>43619184
No shit. You got the only nuker in a class of supports.

>>43619186
>Too bad you have to dig through garbage to find that gem.
That guy objectively proved the class was shit and everyone else was too retarded to even understand the math of it.

Which isn't surprising, I've seen people in pfg get buttmad and call things OP because it was mechanically complex and math-intensive and anything they don't understand must obviously be OP HURRRRR.

>>43619207
>No shit. You got the only nuker in a class of supports.
It's not even good at it either.

>>43619208
>I've seen people in pfg

You mean PFS. We're all about masturbating ourselves to some delicious maths.

>>43619198
Bet they would if it had a torch on the end of it.
>"This is what I fucking think about burn!"

>>43619140
>>43619186
>>43619193

Mark was lead dev but he was likely strong armed by the big names (Bushman for example) as they felt giving at-wills to a non-caster was too OP. If you read his posts, the late-at-nigh-boss-asleept/how-Id-play-it/suggested-house-rules posts especially, you can tell his design philosophy is far more open to giving Martial characters nice things.

That and the Bulmahn Dick move at the end of the design process killed his projects (cuts to number of words available, 54 spirits to 6, design space stolen for the psychic etc. ).

>>43619130
This is actually part of what makes the classes in OA so stupid. The feedback was part of the problem.
The same designer was doing both classes, and the response for Kineticist was SO strong on the Paizo forums from weaboos, that his attention was directed there instead of towards Medium, or really anything else in the book.
The reason we were given why Medium lost its spirits is because of the page count, which is a reasonable argument. One could say that a perfect class like Psychic didn't need so much space, and they'd be mostly right, but no one asks why Kineticist takes up so much space.
Medium has 7.5 pages to Psychic's 12, sure, and that sucks, but Kineticist has fucking 20 pages. Twenty. That's the Medium, AND the Mesmerist, AND all the pages of feats that pertain to both classes.

Even IF they had listened to a lot of the retard weaboo Avatar feedback that inundated that thread, and they had made a better Kineticist, I'd still feel slighted.
The feedback they received wasn't really constructive to a large degree, it was just gushing fanboy trash, and I wouldn't have listened to most of it either.
Go look if you think I'm exaggerating. See how many people said shit like, "How would you build Lina Inverse as a Kineticist?" or "How do to Unlimited Blade Works?" or "This is my custom Time Kineticist to allow you to emulate The World."
I'm not even mentioning the absolutely disgusting amount of Avatar children.

Am I disappointed with the final product of OA, yes, absolutely, but I don't think it's fair to lay all the blame at Mark Seifter's feet. Corporate saw that Kineticist had so many comments that it literally DOUBLED every other occult class' comments COMBINED, and they said, "Fuck you, Mark, this book needs to sell, and you're gonna make goddamn Kineticist Adventures."
And Mark said, "I'm no corporate weaboo bitch. I'll give you your Kineticist, but I'll make sure this retard fanbase never forgets it."

>>43619186
>One poster actually posted the tried and tested Kineticist vs Archer Warrior showing just how badly designed the Kineticist was in terms of damage and how counter burn was.

What /tg/ thinks:
>Yeah, this proves the Kineticist is shit.

What /pfg/ thinks:
>Warrior OP. Nerf it.

What Paizo thinks:
>Kineticist needs a cool archetype that can turn salt water into fresh water!

>>43619225
Some anon posted a way to boost individual saves in a way that was only efficient if you didn't have saves so universally low that you'd want a Cloak of Resistance instead. Literally, a weaker option than an extremely basic option, but because it was complicated to use and had some math involved, people flipped their shit.

This was this week.

Later in this week, there was another retarded contest by BUILDPOSTER trying to somehow prove that all Wizards are worse than all Fighters at 1st-level combat by pitting one reach weapon Fighter against four bestiary Orcs without specifying literally any part of the combat environment and trying to compare it to a shoddily built Wizard of the same level.

And I think we all know by now that the Orc in the Bestiary is very strong for its CR, and that four Orcs are way too strong for one 1st level nonmythic nongestalt character to reasonably handle, except we all don't know that apparently because pfg spent two hours bickering about it anyway.

So, no, pfg is not universally good at maths, or universally favorable to them.

>>43619266
Medium pages were cut for Psychic spell descriptions, actually.

>>43619274
Do you mean "what PFS thinks"

>>43619266
That's a shame. What a catastrophe. I'm still holding out for a DSP Psionics version, honestly.

>>43619307
My bad.

>>43619287
>Medium pages were cut for Psychic spell descriptions, actually.
You, and everyone else, automatically thought it would be fun to jump on the 'We hate primary casters' wagon and shit on Buhlman, which is perfectly fine, and I often do it too, but logic still dictates that if the Kineticist had fewer pages, that the Psychic's spells could have used those pages, and therefore, Medium wouldn't have needed to be cut.
I don't disagree that they make the claim that Psychic needed more room. A dick move, that, and one that I think has some proof to back it up.
BUT I disagree that the room specifically HAD to come from Medium. It didn't. They could've taken from any of the classes, any of their shitty subsystems about Psychic Duels, or whatever they wanted, but they explicitly didn't take from Kineticist because it was making them the most money.

>>43619274
>>Kineticist needs a cool archetype that can turn salt water into fresh water!

They already did that. Their next Kineticist will convert his blast into sunlight.

He already tilled his garden and watered his plants. All he needs left is some sunlight and fertilizer.

>>43619323
>BUT I disagree that the room specifically HAD to come from Medium. It didn't.
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that. It happens to be where the room came from. They could've cut any of the unpopular classes, Kineticist was the only one that attracted significant feedback.

>>43619323
Coulda taken from chakra gates. Even with all the feats it is unplayable garbage.

>>43612890
Remove pointy hat!

>>43619351
>Kineticist was the only one that attracted significant feedback.

A big chunk of that feedback consists of "Burn is bad. Get rid of it." "Damage is too weak. Even an archer can deal more."

Paizo just thought of all the hype they're getting.

>>43619366
"Accidentally" trip and spill coffee on his spellbook in the morning!

>>43619348
>sunlight blast
See, the problem is that would be USEFUL and therefore wouldn't be something the Kineticist would get access to.

>>43619372
Buy him antimagic gifts!

>>43619380
No, no, it wouldn't be actual sunlight like a Daylight spell. It'd be a directed special Blast that deals no damage and produces no significant light, but sufficiently supplies one mundane plant with enough energy for one day of photosynthesis.

And it's going to cost like 4 Burn because growing food is OP.

>>43619384
Only sob twice when begging him for buffs!

>>43619372
I actually miss the old AD&D game that had a mechanical method to balance wizards.

See, before 3e, Wizards casted spells by reading from their spellbooks.
Damaging their spellbooks with a burning arrow, a vial of acid, or even outright getting it taken from a rogue rendered a wizard spell-less unless they also prepped wands, scrolls and rods.

>>43619406
Complain he's not spending enough spell slots on you!
>>43619409
Hell, I'd let them cast spells all the time like 5e with cantrips, if those spells didn't effectively solve everything and the casting time was actually proportional to the effect.

>>43619409
It also took a long time to prepare spells and there were less immediate ways to get around that.

>>43619406
Elect NOT to take the Pack Mule archetype, so that you can't carry as many of his books for him!

Alright, /pfg/.

Who wants some Pacific-Islander-type turtle/tortoise/lizard people?

CUZ THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GETTING.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QxS6VxGud65nAoKoO5bgJPD-x099zBOmMOlrzdE9gHk/edit?usp=sharing

I present, the Tortara.

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>>43619402
>Because growing food is OP.
You joke, but based on the design of other Paizo releases I think they might actually believe that.
The recent race that doesn't need to eat still totally does need to eat, they just absorb the nutrients from the food by touching it. High-level spells have, as their sole purpose, increasing the yield of crops. Hell even in Spheres of Power it costs more Spell Points (1 SP) to grow enough edible plants for one person than the cost (0 SP) to do a basic Destructive Blast (AKA Eldritch Blast), or even to affect the weather within a 100-foot circle around you (also 0 SP).

Is not needing to eat really THAT powerful in the minds of the designers?

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>>43619436
You've done it!
I was the anon who requested this some time ago.
I appreciate the effort you've put in and am excited to use this in my game(s)

Much love, tripfriend.

>>43619448
There's something infinitely-wrong with a turtleman using a turtle-shell shield and mace. That'd be like a guy using a flesh-shield and some dude's skull as a hammer.

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>>43619436
hell yes. (I suggest wording the third eye blindness thing something like "if the source of any blinding effect allows spell resistance, the blindness only affects their third eye.")

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>>43619439
>Is not needing to eat really THAT powerful in the minds of the designers?

Actually, its the opposite. Its being a able to feed an populace which is a sign of being powerful.

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>>43619460
Primitive ancestor worship is a hell of a drug.
Or, if you prefer, NON-primitive ancestor worship in the form of reliquaries particularly popular in 40k land.
Hell, in the modern age, the Sedlec Ossuary uses human bones as chandeliers, desks, shelves, and even more mundane shit than a blessed mace and/or shield.

Besides, rule of cool.

>>43619448
No problemo, it was a fun time!

>>43619461
That's actually a bit more powerful than how it is. I might've worded it poorly, but basically, it's like how looking at like, an artifact with detect magic if you're a scrubling can blind your dumb ass for a few minutes. Cuz Tua-Tortara are only looking at it with their third eye, that's the only one that gets blinded.

That might be a good feat for them though. Maybe alongside another enhancement to the third eye, since blinding magic is a bit of a corner-case.

Also, bonus points if anyone can pick the type of lizard that the Tua-Tortara are based on!

>>43619436
This is really darn neat. Any story stuff to go with them?

>>43619494
>Also, bonus points if anyone can pick the type of lizard that the Tua-Tortara are based on!
Oh god I used to know that, it's somewhere in my skull. I learned about them back when I was a kid, I thought it was so weird that they had an eye on their forehead, that's going to bug me now...!

>>43619494
...Uh. Tuatara?

>>43619494
Tuatara, right?
Less about the eye thing, more about the similar naming conventions.
Though, I for some reason also think they're the 3 eye critters.

>>43619511
I'll give people 10 minutes before I indulge my desire to be a smug bastard know-it-all who doesn't know it all at all.

>>43619495
No specific 'story' stuff, only vague racial qualities I haven't really put into words yet.

>>43619517
Welp, there it is! The Tuatara! A lizard native to New Zealand, with a photoreceptive third eye.

Tortara age categories:
More, less, or equal to Elf?

This is relevant to the roles I place them in as NPC's.

>>43619436
Swift action to withdraw, but I think you should specify the action needed to emerge again. Probably also if it provokes AoO.

Your wording on it also allows them to cast while withdrawn without restriction, with either still spell or spells with no somantics.
tl;dr they're pretty good psychics

>>43619545
Yep, casting while Withdrawn using non-somatic components was a thing I considered, and yes, that's totally valid. I also didn't want to just say 'they can't move' because that wording would be odd if they could levitate themselves around or something similar. I'll update the wording to emerge though.

>>43619534
Probably about the same as an elf. Although they'd mature a lot faster. The longer-lived races taking a fucking ridiculous amount of time to stop being gibbering infants is a peeve of mine Except when it comes to elves, oddly, so Tortara probably reach adulthood a while after humans. Maybe at 20 or so.

Maybe 20 can be their coming of age thing. A Decade to grow, a decade to learn. Then, my son, you become a man.

>>43619584
Those ages are great. A+

>>43619584
Are you Flat-Footed while Withdrawn?
The phrasing of "may not....otherwise use its arms or legs" makes me think maybe they can't stay standing up? That normal turtle problem of rolling around on their back, maybe.
I don't imagine that's what you want this to be, because gaining Cover at the cost of going Prone and becoming Flat-Footed seems...silly.
But maybe some semantics to indicate that they can still use their legs to remain stable, like to apply regular CMD against Bull Rushing, instead of seemingly turning themselves into a hockey puck, ready to be ignored or just, well, killed.

>>43619494
Just some feedback, if you're receptive to it:

Aquatic Tur-Tortara could benefit trading away Darkvision for Aquatic Vision.

They could have an alternate racial trait that grants a bite attack which they can use while withdrawn. This could replace Mediator.

They could, as a result of their natural habitat, trade some of their natural armor for fire and cold resistance.

Turtles are some of the few animals that maintain physically fit despite old age. Maybe make it so that they seem to be under the effects of the Age Resistance spell.

Lastly, Turtles and Tortoises actually eat poisonous shit like frogs and jellyfish without getting sick. Like dwarves, this gives them a +4 resistance vs poison.

>>43619436
>Abilities which cause other weapons to be treated as light weapons do not affect this ability.
Might want to be
>Abilities that cause one-handed or two-handed weapons to be treated as light weapons do not count for this ability; they must not be wielded when the Tortara withdraws.

>If a Tua-Tortara is blinded due to incredibly powerful magic, only their third eye is blinded.
This was already discussed, but it might be worded as
>If a Tua-Tortara is blinded by the usage of its Detect Magic ability in some way, only its third eye is blinded; its ordinary eyes are unaffected. This ability provides no special protection to other effects that impair eyesight, like blindness/deafness, though such effects do not affect the third eye or disable its detect magic ability.

Also, you should specify if the racial abilities are (Ex), (Su), or (Sp).

>>43619633
In case you're looking for the desciption of age resistance -

"This spell functions as lesser age resistance, except you ignore the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution penalties gained at middle age and old age."

>>43619633
>Aquatic Vision
What?

>>43618874
Well, they released three new Phantom types - Pride, Lust, and Greed, IIRC.

>>43619672
Allows you to see clearly underwater regardless of depth or water clarity out to a certain distance, I think?

>>43619672
Sorry, translate this to being able to see twice farther than humans while submerged.

>>43619628
Flat-footed, no. As for prone, yeah I might have to think about that one.

>>43619641
I did look up the Sp/Su/Ex definitions to be sure, and there was also an entry on stuff that's just part of how they are, stuff that doesn't have a tag.

"This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature. Natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like."

So I figured it was fine.

>>43619672
>>43619686
Here's the ruling:
As a guideline, creatures can see 4d8 × 10 feet if the water is clear, and 1d8 × 10 feet if it's murky. Moving water is always murky, unless it's in a particularly large, slow-moving river.

For aquatic creatures, this is doubled.

>>43619689
Detect Magic should probably be Su, though.

>>43619684
>>43619686
While I do like that ability, I don't feel like it should replace Darkvision. If it was just added to Tur-Tortara without replacing anything additional, it wouldn't imbalance it in any appreciable way, but more importantly, I think Darkvision is pretty important underwater too.

>>43619693
Mm, well that's the thing.

I've been picturing it as entirely nonmagical. Just an eye sensitive to a different wavelength which happens to be that of magic.

So neither Sp or Su really fit, and Ex implies it's above what the race is, when for the Tua, it isn't.

>>43619693
I'd argue that it would get shut down in an antimagic field even if it weren't supernatural, since the wording of antimagic field is broad enough to cover natural magic.

>>43619689
I still suggest describing exactly how seeing as if by /detect magic/ works.

>>43619717
>>43619712
oops, yeah, I don't read. nonmagic? cool.

>>43619633
I like the Age Resistance racial feature.

You can play a Middle Age and Old Aged Tortura with a +1 to your mental scores at no penalty to your physical scores? Nice.

>>43619712
Parrot, maybe you can get an idea from this feat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-eye

>>43619734
I'd just make the age penalties overlap instead of stack.
Venerable is a -3/+3 instead of -6/+3 for them then.

>>43619734
Eh.
You may as well just give the race a +2 to all mental stats and call it a day. If you allow no racial penalties up to Venerable, everyone's gonna just do it.

>>43619748
Ooh, yeah, I like that, that's smart.

>>43619722
Mm. Something to bump it up a little bit in usefulness even if the Tua is a spellcaster, since it can't get shut down short of their eye being blinded, along with the sort of blinding-buffer for supermagic shit.

Considering you're swapping out a +2 to AC and whatever usefulness Withdraw could bring you.

Racial feats that build on it are probably gonna do things like expand what you can see. Maybe upgrade into Arcane Sight. We'll see.

>>43619741
Eldritch Eye was a feat I looked up, since I recalled it existing. I might work it in somewhere, maybe one of their higher eye feats counting as it for prereqs.

>>43619734
>>43619748
>>43619751
How's this sound? The penalty to physical stats due to aging is reduced by 1 (To a minimum of 1) for each category?

So Middle Aged still gets you a -1, but then Old also only gets you a -1, and then Venerable only gets you a -2?

So a venerable Tortara only has a total of -4 to his physical stats as opposed to anyone else who'd have a -7.

>>43619748
This. Decreasing penalties is more balanced than no penalties for old age.