Vegans BTFO again

>random blogger who couldn't parse a freshmen level plant physiology textbook

not even vegan, you're just a retard

Socialism: People are starving because 0 food
Capitalism: Poor people are unhealthy because cheap food is complete garbage with 0 nutritional value

>>8912543
I've ordered "roof top" vegetables before and they clearly sucked. I wasn't duped into trying to sustain myself off these vegetables. If you aren't a moron you will recognize low nutrient food and simply not continue to buy it. Pretty simple.

>>8912609
>cheap food is complete garbage with 0 nutritional value
Healthy food like beans and rice is some of the cheapest there is.
Unhealthy people are either not really trying or just stupid if they live in a first world country

>>8912543
>Vertical-Farming

This is such a retarded meme. Why use inner city buildings, where rent is sky-high, to grow cheap ass veggies when there are LITERALLY hundreds of millions of square miles of perfectly good countryside where rent is peanuts?

>>8912834
sustainability

>>8912842
Not him, but simply throwing that word around without any actual facts is another retarded mem

>>8912850
well i just got btfo
see you in the bread line in 50 years

>>8912609
Please go ahead and give me definitions of both capitalism and socialism
No google

>>8912850
That land needs to be used for ecological systems
Decentralized agriculture is the way to go

>>8912823

Simple starches aren't heathly

>>8912899
Extremely efficient large scale production uses less space and energy than millions of amateurs doing it by them selves.

Same reason why we send things in enormous cargoships instead of having millions of delivery drivers

>>8912906
Yes they are. Not if it's all you eat, but you need to eat them. And beans are much more than simple starches.

Then there's also the fact that vegetables are way cheaper per pound than any fastfood/tv dinners

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>>8912914
>extremely effecient large scale production uses less energy and space
It's only effecient at turning a profit from capital, industrial agriculture destorys everything it touches.
it requires massive amounts of energy and an unequal distribution of power incompatible with anarchist ideals.
>millions of delivers drivers
Irrelevant if nothing needs to be delivered

hive-cities when

>>8912543
>No Tricks Zone
>nothing but deceptive arguments immaturely lashing out at anything "green"

Why hasn't science found a way to make vertical farming more nutrient-rich yet? What's the holdup?

>>8912942
>It's only effecient at turning a profit from capital
and the reason for that is because it uses less energy and space, thus giving you more tomatoes for less resources/money
>it requires massive amounts of energy
No. It requires like 10x less energy per tomato
>anarchist ideals
Don't know why you think that's in any way relevant to sustainability or efficiency

the no tricks zone is nothing but tricks

how ironic

>>8912922

There is nothing in them that you need that you can't find in other, more nutrient dense foods

>>8912896
Socialism - economical system that makes people prosper
Capitalism - literal fascism

>>8912834
Climate controlled year-round farming.

>>8913004
>more nutrient dense foods
we're talking about cheap and healthy though.

>>8913005
>Socialism - economical system that makes people prosper

The problem is that practically every society that ever had a socialist revolution has ended up becoming an authoritarian dystopia. Look at the USSR under Joseph Stalin, Albania under Enver Hoxha, East Germany under Walter Ulbricht, Venezuela today under Nicolas Maduro. Not a pretty picture.

Going any further left than social democracy, is a road to self-destruction.

>>8913012
>cheap and healthy
what's that?

>>8913041
It's just because something like a society is too massivley complex to control.

>>8912906
>this nutrient is unhealthy

Sure thing, kid.

>>8913054
The fact that "I'm poor" is not a valid excuse for "I eat unhealthy".

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>>8912543
The funny thing is that all my green leaf veggies not only don't come from a store, but are not grown by other farmers. Then again, all my green veggies are actually considered weeds now. I allow them to grow along with my other crops as trap plants, distraction plants, and because when I weed the garden I eat them instead. Most were part of people's normal diet until stuff like spinach or kale took over in world markets. I even grow them in the winter to eat, since it is so simple to do (pic.) Today, I had the following for lunch,

Chenopodium album (Lamb's quarters)
Persicaria maculosa (Lady's Thumb)
Plantago lanceolata (Ribwort Plantain)
Plantago major (Common Plantain)
Oxalis stricta (Sourgrass)
Erechtites hieracifolia (American Burnweed)
Stellaria media (Chickweed)

Heh, I'm not even vegetarian let along vegan.

>>8913054
Eat the weeds.

>>8913110
True that. I make no more than $300 a month and eat like a king in both quantity and nutrition. But, I only spend about $75/mo on food since I farm everything else.

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>notrickszone

>>8913137
tl;dr

>>8912609

>Capitalism: Poor people are unhealthy because cheap food is complete garbage with 0 nutritional value


>What is 1kg of rice for 0.70 dollars
>what is 12 eggs for 1.30 dollars
>what is 6 gallons of milk for 3 dollars
Wew, so expensive so low nuts

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>>8913005

Heil Hitler

>>8912942
Globalism was always a cancer.

>>8912957

it's very simple: you can't replicate nature in a lab with 100% accuracy

topsoil differences (and micro-climate conditions) are difficult to replicate, especially when you don't want to use pesticides, since many chemical reactions are due to organic matter, microorganisms and... crawling, flying, pooping creatures

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsoil

you can't grow grass in a lab, feed cows with it and then make Parmigiano-Reggiano... forget it, you are not God

>>8913011
Cause buildings and A/C don't exist in the countryside.

>>8913005
>Socialism - economical system that makes people prosper

Tell that shit to Venezuela.

>>8912834
>Hundreds of millions of square miles.
This is false thou, not ever climate or location is suitable for farming.

Farming in mountains sucks.
Farming while being far away from water sources suck.

Also nobody is gonna do it within the city in the same way industrial complexes are always on the outskirts.

>>8914084
Is it possible to feed a ton of people without pesticides? Are there chemical pesticide alternatives?

>>8912962
I thought the original comment referred to ecological sustainability. We are destroying our own soil.

>>8914142

you can mix repellent plants and companion plants to the main plants you want to grow; there are people who plant a garden/orchard this way and then leave it almost alone during the year with very little intervention:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pest-repelling_plants

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companion_plants

>ton of people
eh, here comes the problems
starting from permaculture, to step up the game you need to integrate animals into the farm (that is: manure):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_farming

it's like a medieval approach, but done efficiently with precise programming

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>>8914190
Thanks anon, never knew that existed

>>8914174
>We are destroying our own soil.
I don't know why you think stripping the land of megatons of soil and transporting to a bunch of amateurs in the cities would destroy it less than letting professionals handle it

>>8914660
that's not what vertical farming entails, I would imagine they would use hydroponics

>>8914142
>>8914190
Depends though. It will make any crop a lot more expensive, so really poor people might struggle

>>8914190
that sounds a lot like organic farming

>>8912942
>Irrelevant if nothing needs to be delivered
You still need to deliver the same things a farm needs retard. Plants don't grow on magic because they're on your balcony.

>>8914663
hydroponics is not ready for mass production yet though. And it will be a really long time before it's ready for a majority of countries as opposed to a few of the very richest

>>8913698
>6 gallons of milk for 3 dollars
Pleb

>>8914687
What is there to improve? All it takes is nutrients + water + substrate + light. Also microbes and fungi I guess.
The real problem is it's expensive to have vertical farming but if people invest or it get subsidized it'll work eventually.
Vertical farming has some advantages namely no pests, no weather and far less transportation (maybe there's others).

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>>8912543
>low nutrient
lol

Not one scientific paper as a source, just wikipedia and some guy's opinion.

>Eat nothing but plants
>End up malnourished because plants don't offer the correct macronutrients in the correct quantities for any reasonable person to eat regularly
surprise

>>8914710
http://www.bowenpublishing.com/jaeb/paperInfo.aspx?PaperID=16664&year=2015&volume=3&number=2
here's something

>>8914718

But the paper mentions nothing about what OP's guy was talking about, that paper is about the cost-effectiveness of using mylar reflectors for artificial light instead of LEDs.

>>8914726
yeah pretty much

>Notrickzone

Oh wow, the same website notorious for climate change denial and other crank beliefs. No fucking surprise such a bullshit story comes from them.

>>8913698
Where the fuck do you live where food prices are that low? 1 gallon of milk is over $5.00 in most places. a dozen large eggs is far more than $1.30, more like at least $5.00 at most stores. 1kg of Rice, again, for only $0.70? Where the fuck are you buying your food from?

>>8914702
>Vertical farming has some advantages namely no pests

try again:

http://www.alternet.org/story/146686/why_planting_farms_in_skyscrapers_won%27t_solve_our_food_problems/
>Powdery mildew, aphids, mites, or other pests can easily wipe out greenhouse-grown wheat plants, for example, if chemical control is not used.
>the company filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy, having fallen victim, according to the Arizona Daily Star, to "its debt burden, labor troubles and crop pest problems," which included invasions of white flies.

>>8913122
How much time do you spend tending to your garden?

>>8913005
>Socialism- economical system for handsome young gentlemen who wear nice hats
>capitalism- stupid system chad thought up

This is (You)

>>8914842
Not much really. This year has been the most ever since I'm nearly at max capacity for all gardens. However, the 1st hard part is nearly done (starting seeds, planting, setting up/taking down structures.) After that initial burst of work the rest of the time is pretty chill. Then later harvesting and preserving the crops takes a good bit of time. It is great because inbetween I can go fishing with all the gear I made inside during winter.

I want to continually expand until I actually have a near full time work load, including in winter. However, I prefer to only use raised beds and making soil for those takes time.

>>8912942
>"I'll just become self-sufficient", said the lonely man from behind his computer.

Even in this capitalistic society, the irony is free to enjoy.

>>8914865
Sounds good to me.
What do you make with the weeds? Boil them or process them in a dish?
Also, what's the climate like?

>>8914084
That's not the reason you fckig retard. Why do you people insist to speak even thou you know shit. The reason is that vertical farming requires way too much electricity to compete with direct solar exposition, and it's only "profitable" with overpriced lettuce and herbs. I say "profitable" because it's not a business model that scales, since everywhere in the world except two or three overcrowded cities, it's cheaper to grow in open air, and there's only so much demand for premium quality fresh lettuce

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>>8914870
Temperate, Zone 5.

I make salad, steam, boil, add to various dishes requiring normal greens. Nothing usual. When I have a ton, I sometimes pressure can them like they are spinach or collards (bottom-left three images). That's an easy way to make stuff for winter.

Check out >>>/out/1012616 for the most proper place to discuss farming and gardening.

>>8914710

Carotenoid Composition of Hydroponic Leafy Vegetables
Mieko Kimura and Delia B. Rodriguez-Amaya
J. Agric. Food Chem., 2003, 51 (9), pp 2603–2607

>http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf020539b

>Comparison of hydroponic and field-produced curly lettuce, taken from neighboring farms, showed that the hydroponic lettuce had significantly lower lutein, β-carotene, violaxanthin, and neoxanthin contents than the conventionally produced lettuce. Because the hydroponic farm had a polyethylene covering, less exposure to sunlight and lower temperatures may have decreased carotenogenesis.

>>8914702
>What is there to improve?
>it's expensive
This
>if people invest or it get subsidized it'll work eventually.
but not right now. Especially not "for a majority of countries as opposed to a few of the very richest"
>no pests
This is wrong, for example salmonella still thrives in hydroponics
>far less transportation
I don't know why you think this would be the case. The most efficient means of production will still be huge farms outside cities

>>8914903
Yeah, bacteria is a big problem in hydroponics.

http://civileats.com/2015/04/13/why-you-cant-have-organic-food-without-soil/
>The traditional motto of organic growing is “Feed the soil, not the plant.” Hydroponic growing is based on the opposite strategy.

comment 13 is interesting:
>One reason plants grown in soil can be more nutritious is because they feed on microbial metabolites, which are a more efficient form of plant nutrition. Through the symbiotic relationship between the plant and the active soil biology, a plant expends less energy in-taking the nutrients it needs. Furthermore, when plants have excess energy, they can store it in an active rhizosphere for use later in a growth cycle or in subsequent growing seasons. This is not possible in a traditional hydroponic system.

>>8914800
One cherry-picked example of a single poorly managed farm. Simple air filtration, insect screening, and employee entry & exit procedures would solve this.

>>8914899
~69 mg/kg vs. 55.56 mg/kg. Easily overpowered by the higher yields. A quick fix would be some cheap UV lights or UV penetrable cover if you want to go full blown autism mode. Also kinda a straw man / unfair comparison as you'd see the same shit if you grew conventionally in with a cloud cover and nobody argues replacement of a summer open soil setup with a winter hydroponic greenhouse.

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>>8912609

>>8915022
That's some bullshit. Just from the point of view of biochemistry plants contain all the enzymatic machinery they need to grow without any microorganismal association. Introducing one only creates inefficiencies as you now require a longer pathway with more spatial/temporal degrees of freedom, transporters, metabolons, cofactors, etc and their inherent inefficiencies and weak links to obtain the same precursor-product relationship. A notable exception is poor growth under depleted conditions where the symbiont has something the host plant lacks such as capacity for nitrogen fixation, production of siderophores that are better suited for the soil type, or possession of small diameter hyphae that allow for foraging in inaccessible soil pores. In hydroponics an optimized nutrient solution is highly bioavailable and not rate-limiting for growth. Microorganisms here becomes parasitic and yield retarding as photosynate is incessantly sucked to keep them alive without anything in return for the plant.

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>>8915022
Also, storage root initiation is dependent on oxygen availability to support the required higher rates of respiration, not microorganisms. Aeroponics would be good here

http://www.cell.com/trends/plant-science/fulltext/S1360-1385(14)00031-4

Or a modified hydroponic setup like these sweet potatoes where the developing adventitious root avoids getting submerged in solution

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0273117707009532

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>>8915517
Scientific observation of actual fascists invalidates your claim that the steroid addict on the right is a fascist.

>>8915633
He isn't fascist though. Only a government can be fascist.

>>8912609
capitalism: rich people are unhealthy because their expensive food is fucking garbage

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>>8915638
Then he's a fascist-supporting sheeple that thinks the government will only fuck over the brown-skinned people he hates without realizing the globalists are out to fuck over everyone who isn't in their little club equally.

>>8912543
Another typical idiot journalist. Here's an example of the idiocy:

> The real target is to produce as much plant mass as possible, and as quickly as possible. Nutrient density is a side issue.

No, obviously, the real target is to produce the maximum profit for the corporation. It's entirely possible that high nutrient density food has a higher market value -- and if it does, then the corporate goal of maximizing profits might in fact be compatible with the goal of increasing nutrient density.

But did the journalist bother to research the actual goal of the corporation? Did the journalist bother to investigate whether high nutrient density has a higher market value? Of course not. This article is just more of the same lazy, fuzzy-headed crap that now passes as "journalism" in the modern era.

>>8912823
OHHHHHH BEANS, OHHH BEans, YES BEANS PLEASE, NO RICE, THAT IS LIKE ROCK, I NEEED BEANS RIGHT NOW

Make sure you think about the soil

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/16/meat-eaters-soil-degradation-over-grazing

>>8912609
Capitalism: people starve because we believe rich people deserve 100 food and poor people deserve 0

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>>8916019
There it is

>>8914108
Not real socialism : ^ )

>>8915667
>Thinking this is what facism is
You are probably one of those people who think Hitler wanted world domination and to genocide every non-white race. Despite having the most diverse military at that point in history and stating repeated admiration for Britain and not wanting to fight them.

>>8913698
Where do you live that 6 gallons of milk is 3 bucks? Here in the USA where meat and dairy are heavily subsizied its anywhere from $2.50-3.50 per gallon of milk

>>8913054
Lentils nigga

>>8912922.
>Then there's also the fact that vegetables are way cheaper per pound than any fastfood/tv dinners
As a poor person I can tell you that's not exactly true or simple.

>>8913011

Already exists, it's called "tropical countries".

>>8914118

I know that you stupid ponce, which is why I gave the figure for ARABLE land only.

>>8913122
Nice m8 I'm glad to see some take initiative in eating stuff other than kale and lettuce. What are some of your favorite plants?

Also I miss having a big peice of land to garden on, I use to manage a mycology program at a community college and I also helped out the garden. We had some great knowledgeable people there and every season we had a shit ton of food. Once I transfer to the university all they had was an abysmal garden which was riddled with Bermuda because nobody could be bothered to put in a little bit of work.

The art of a good varied garden is sadly one that is not practiced as much as it should be at least in the US.

>>8914800
Its because the idiots don't know how to take care of their plants besides putting them in pods. One way to reduce infestation right off the bat is having a good air flow ad well as not doing monoculture. Seriously it's amazing how well plants will do if you don't bunch up a shit ton of the same ones together or plants that have a similar predator. But the thing with hydroponic gardeners is that they tend to not think about those variables.

>>8912543
>More importantly, it boasts having a much smaller impact on the planet and climate, and many vertical farms are even backed by big investors, like Goldman Sachs.
Why am I not surprised?

when traveling in latam I talked with an american about hydroponics, he told me about aquaponics and it seems to me like the most effective way of growing in the future, it involves a closed biosphere where fish produce food for bacteria who in turn produce food for plants:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaponics

>>8916772
Yes it is.
Even in the US, with exceptionally cheap fast food, a big mac is like 8$/lbs. 8$/lbs is more than fresh chicken in a super market. A full chicken dinner with rice and vegetables is like half the cost of a big mac. And that's even without buying frozen

>>8912543
>good people trying to save the planet may suffer some health risks
what the fuck kek

>man who just won a billion dollars is having relationship problems

>>8916822
>>8916898
What both of you are describing is extremely expensive compared to conventional farming

Hydroponics is still a meme for at least another 30 years

>>8916917
Ya but poor people be working all the time and not a lot of time to cook.

>>8916926
>Ok, I was wrong but I'm still too lazy to cook food
There it is. This is why you deserve to be poor.

It's not even a valid argument: You can cook a huge batch that will last the entire week in 1 hour. 1 hour is less time than you spend buying fast food over a week. AND you save even more money on driving expenses. AND now that you're spending half as much money on food, you can work less hours

>>8916948
Maybe if it's chicken rice and beans, which I do sometimes. Cooking a week's worth of real veggies is difficult.

>>8913122
That's so interesting. Can u list off the greens u grow like this?

>>8916811
>What are some of your favorite plants?

•For my fave salad and spinach/collards alternative: Chenopodium album (Lamb's quarters) [eat while 12" or less and you can poke your fingernail into easily, gets woody when bloom cycle is triggered by heat/light/cold or gets above 12", it uptakes nitrogen like crazy so use in nitrogen deficient soils or you might end up with nitrate toxicity if you eat a lot of it]
•For salad/potherb filler with almost no flavor: Persicaria maculosa (Lady's Thumb) [eat at any stage]
•Best burst of flavor in salad/potherb: Oxalis stricta (Sourgrass) [use sparingly]
•Best unique odor and flavor (you'll hate or love it): Erechtites hieracifolia (American Burnweed) [use sparingly unless you love it, eat while under 12" otherwise you'll need to peel the stems]
•Best salad green: Stellaria media (Chickweed) [terrific cold weather plant, gets tough when it gets hotter, keep cutting it back for best most tender growth, boiling it makes soap bubbles, don't over eat it]

The two plantains, Plantago lanceolata (Ribwort Plantain) & Plantago major (Common Plantain) along with Taraxacum (Dandelion) are all good for salad and potherbs, but you must only use them while they are young and have not bolted yet. They will be tender and not as bitter then. Though, dandelion will almost always be bitter. I prefer using dandelion flowers for making wine or for rolling in flour/batter and frying.

If you enjoy bitter greens either as a main dish or as a splash of flavor, use Cichorium intybus (Chicory) leaves. It is the most bitter thing I know.

>Bermuda

Lay scrap cardboard over it, mulch it and water it.

>>8916960
>Cooking a week's worth of real veggies is difficult.
How is boiling something difficult retard?
Also, you're still just being lazy. There's absolutely no excuse to be unhealthy just because you're poor

>>8917016
You're not supposed to boil nutritious veggies, plus they're relatively expensive. I'm not unhealthy, but it does take a lot of effort. Sometimes I just don't want to go through it and I'll just take a multivitamin and call it a day.

>>8916922
aquaponics is very different from hydroponics
Setting up a aquaponic plant may be more expensive then setting up conventional farms but I'm pretty sure that if you would take away the price-deciding factors like availability and funding, in less then five years the costs of aquaponics to conventional farming would break even and after less then ten years aquaponics will be a lot more cost effective while also taking up considerably less space.

in the end the only four things you'd need to spend money on, would be: fresh water for fishtank, fishfood, chemicals to level ph and electricity.

You wont need any fertilizer, you wont need to water the plants and you wont need herbicides.

>>8917051
>You're not supposed to boil nutritious veggies

There's this thing called "steaming" which requires boiling and happens to be the best method of cooking veggies to retain and unlock their nutrients. However, you'd not want to do that a week in advance since you should be eating them within 2 mins of coming out of the steamer for max nutrition.

>Sometimes I just don't want to go through it and I'll just take a multivitamin and call it a day.

You have a physiological problem (one beyond simply posting on 4chan).

>>8917176
>being poor is so easy bro!
This is literally you.

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>>8913041
The problem is every system can easily turn into authoritarian dystopia. Like todays corporate USA.
Democracy always struggles and it has more to do with the education of society than the economical system. Today Russia is supposed to be democracy. Do you consider it to be so? Or is Putin just a continuation of communist leaders and tzars?

>social democracy
You probably mean facade parlamentary democracy plus capitalism with some social features.

>>8912543
This article made me cringe so much

"they use plastic OMG FENG PLASTIC JESUS SAVE US OH LORD"

"the question is does it actually matter, the question is do we know what the hell we are talking about, the question is if we keep asking question will anyone notice we offer nothing of substance? "

"in fact ladies and gentlemens we have experts who say what we said on the title 50 questions ago" -end of article

>>8917181
I'm >>8913122 & >>8914895

Yes, being poor is easy, but you can't also be poor of mind.

>>8912543
Does vertical farming have to be low nutrient? This seems fixable.

>>8917051
>You're not supposed to boil nutritious veggies
still better than fast food mate. Again, the only reason someone "poor" is unhealthy is because they're lazy and/or stupid

>>8917304
Or you know, actually poor and can't afford food in the general sense. Kids whose only meal is free school lunch is a real thing, you know.

>>8917208
>>8917304
Sure. Look guys, I'm not unhealthy, but I'm just saying being healthy is harder when you're poor. I wish I could buy fresh fruit and veggies every couple days, but that's not in the budget. I have to work harder at it than wealthy people. It's another one of those small burdens that comes with being poor.

>>8913699
>[Hard Scottish Accent]

>>8917324
Jesus Christ get a job you tard

>>8917324
I take it you live in the city?

>>8914761
I'm certain I saw 5 pounds of rice for $2.30 at the grocery store recently. 1 pound of rice is 1500 calories. Get some olive oil to mix into that for unsat fats (bottle will last a while) some beans, some milk, and a multivitamin....and you're getting everything you need for like $15 per week.

>>8917315
>can't afford food in the general sense
Sure, but that's not the argument here
>>8917324
>I wish I could buy fresh fruit and veggies every couple days
You could with the money you save on not buying fast food

>>8915518
So do humans, doesn't mean that our symbiotic bacteria don't make a shit ton of things easier for our bodies

>>8917531
Okay, but none of that is applicable to plant production in a controlled environment for food. When talking about biological fitness and development in the wild with various environmental stressors no doubt the situation starts to become comparable.

>>8917512
Indeed

>>8913054
you can literally grow all your vegetables in a fucking window sill you goddamn idiot.

stop being a fatass.

>>8917525
You can buy stuff like pinto beans, corn, sunflower seeds, and rice in 50lbs bags for pretty cheap. I think the highest priced one is sunflower seeds (shelled is very high), but something like corn is around $16/50lbs.

50lbs each:

Pinto Beans: 600 servings ($30-$50; $0.08 per serving max)
Corn: 370 servings ($15-$20; $0.05 per serving max)
Sunflower Seeds: 800 servings (unshelled $25-$35 $0.04 per serving max; shelled $100-$150; $0.18 per serving max)
Rice: 680 servings ($45-$70; $0.10 per serving max)

Max Totals w/shelled sunflower seeds:

Cost: $175
Weight: 400lbs
Servings: 2,450
Cost Per Serving: $0.07
3 servings a day: 816.66 days (2.237 years worth of food. $0.21/day)

>I'm sure there are errors all over the place, depending on where you get your price info and serving size info.

>>8912834
>buying hundreds of square miles of land is cheaper than rent in the city

>>8912543
>that article
They never explain why they have misgivings on vertical farming they just state that they think it will yield low nutrition density per plant without providing reasons or anything to back up the claim making the whole article pointless.

>>8912543

real redpill: low nutrient, industrial farming posed a serious health risk to normies hell bent on getting the cheapest food available.

>>8912823

beans aren't good for you. Meat is also not good for you (in excess).

beans support bacterial growth which drives obesity, and meat (in american amounts) is impossible to digest completely and supports gram negative bacterial growth and accumulation of gut serotonin

>>8918103

bean protein is also much less bioavailable than animal protein. sprouted beans are okay.

>>8918103
[citation needed]

>>8918103
Ur just pulling shit out of nowhere of course beans and meat are good for you stupid motherfucker

>>8915667
Globalism is much more closely related to international communism than to any variety of fascism.

File: 1495051597376.jpg (25KB, 341x394px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 341x394px

>>8918080
>buy 3 acres for $6k; 1 hour drive outside the city
>bring tent for overnighters during planting and harvest season
>easily farm enough food to feed 100 people for a year, every season

or,

>pay that much in rent and half that much again for food every single year.

>>8918103
>>8918107
>tfw I never ever get gas from beans and can pack on all the weight I want when eating them, yet all my friends and family nearly blow the house up and drop weight when eating beans

Beans are my go-to food for bulking.

>>8912609
>Capitalism: Poor people are unhealthy because cheap food is complete garbage with 0 nutritional value
more like they just cant stop eating the shit food which is composed of just bread/oil.

or you could just buy veggies, lean meat, rice and be set.

>>8914761

https://www.smartfoodservice.com/shopping/searchProducts/

5 dozen eggs for 4.48.

Milk he is full of shit on though.

Food is dirt cheap

Vertical farms make zero economic sense and are just cheap clickbait for /r/futurology audience.

>>8912543
Wow, what a fucking garbage article.

Starts off all scientific, like they're making a valid point arguing against unreasonable hippies.

But then you read the article and there is literally no evidence whatsoever.

Just, oh these towers don't look like normal healthy farms with sunlight and dirt, therefore they must be bad.

Zero evidence that there is any difference in nutrient density between vertical farmed crops and conventional crops, just "we haven't seen evidence proving otherwise and look there's no natural dirt so it must be bad."

A worse case of the naturalistic fallacy than any hippies would use, just the epitome of "muh feels", like fuck science or any actual evidence it looks different and doesn't feel good THEREFORE ITS BAD AND EVERYONE WHO SUPPORTS IT SIS DUMB AND MALNOURISHED

>>8919128
It's kind of unreasonable for a person to purchase 5 dozen eggs unless they're feeding a large family. Eggs last a while but not forever.

>>8919176
idk but I live in Florida and it is roughly $1.15 for a dozen large eggs.

>>8919179
That's below average, but yeah, eggs are always a good cheap food no matter what.

>>8917800
How fucking big is your windowsill? Jesus christ. Humans have to consume about 2000 calories a day. They don't make windows that big.

>>8919176
>>8919179
>>8919181
>>8919128
I have 12 laying chickens and they lay 6-10 eggs each day. I sell what I don't eat and it pays for their feed and everything. My eggs are not only free. but make me a bit of spending money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pDTiFkXgEE

>>8912942
just kill 90% of people in africa and india and everything will go back to 1965 levels

>>8912942
Can we stop this 1st worlders are ruining the world meme. The majority of deforestation and environmental mayhem comes from developing nations, not 1st world ones. But if you try forcing them to stop developing that way, it's suddenly wrong.

>>8917193
Democracy stops working when it's universal because it requires the most practically productive people to be in charge or else you have entire presidential elections hinging on shitty identity politics.

Universal sufferage was a mistake in the US prove me wrong.

I don't even care about the women/minorities thing because if you just kept it "must own (Not be paying a mortgage on/renting) land" it'd still be 100x better than it is now.

>>8920617
>being this retarded
The entire continent of africa doesn't even reach 10% of global emissions

>>8912609
Socialism and Capitalism aren't mutually exclusive though.

>>8912820
How do you recognise low nutrient food?

>>8921070
Live off it for a while and if your teeth start falling out... Then you know.

Vegans have nothing more to do with vertical farming than regular people.

>>8912543
Yeah btfo by right wing fake news website. Lol. Pro-tip: The Beast shall be avenged. You will not escape punishment for your cowardice and murders.

>>8921115
This.

>>8921205
Take your faggot bull Moloch and fuck off out of here. This is Kek country.

>>8921070
When it comes to veggies, especially green leafy ones, the darker more bitter ones have more nutrients. No one like that flavor so people develop watery sweet varieties that have far less nutrition.

>>8912834
The purpose is for food to be produced nearby the people who eat it.

Local food.

>>8912942
That image is so moronic it hurts.

>>8921216
>the darker more bitter ones have more nutrients
Source?

>>8921297
It isn't everything of course. There are some things that are just massively bitter. Like chicory for instance which has like half a dozen bitter compounds that exist only to be bitter as fuck and are not nutritious on their own that I know of specifically.

An example for apples is the skin of the modern red delicious apple. In order to get the apple to look stereotypically "perfect" it became darker and more red in color. As a result, the skin also became more bitter while at the same time became more nutritious. It is one of the few modern industrialized plants to have actually increased in nutrition.

Here's a good source,

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/72/6/1424.short

Abstract

Dietary phytonutrients found in vegetables and fruit appear to lower the risk of cancer and cardiovascular disease. Studies on the mechanisms of chemoprotection have focused on the biological activity of plant-based phenols and polyphenols, flavonoids, isoflavones, terpenes, and glucosinolates. Enhancing the phytonutrient content of plant foods through selective breeding or genetic improvement is a potent dietary option for disease prevention. However, most, if not all, of these bioactive compounds are bitter, acrid, or astringent and therefore aversive to the consumer. Some have long been viewed as plant-based toxins. As a result, the food industry routinely removes these compounds from plant foods through selective breeding and a variety of debittering processes. This poses a dilemma for the designers of functional foods because increasing the content of bitter phytonutrients for health may be wholly incompatible with consumer acceptance. Studies on phytonutrients and health ought to take sensory factors and food preferences into account.

>>8921397
Pretty interesting, thanks!