what would it take for CS to be a serious subject?

>>8508472
It already is, brainlet

solution to P=NP

>>8508472
When the people who study it stop believing that they're smart enough to study other fields of science and math.

So many of these faggots I know are """""""autodidacts"""""""""" who think they can learn anything just because they were able to learn a programming language all by themselves. You're not smart. Fucking kill yourself.

>>8508493
>programming language
>having anything to do with computer science

once again, the brainlets show their brainletness by posting dumb shit on /sci/. when will brainlets learn?

>>8508472
Less HCI, more maths, modules in theory of computation/computer vision/machine learning/computer graphics to become compulsory (or other modules to become more rigorous), less emphasis on "making apps" and more emphasis on solving problems.

>>8508523
And in addition to this, making courses much more structured, such that everyone has a similar core skillset, rather than diluting the pool of graduates by allowing some students to do nothing but business, web dev, user experience and HCI, and still calling them computer scientists.

>>8508493
All scientists are like that.

>>8508493
>2016
>being elitist

File: main-qimg-41ff76bb61d187c3afb0ccc5d16581cf.png (38KB, 358x540px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 358x540px

>>8508493
But that's physics

>>8508523
You're talking about the major, not the subject. The field of CS is very diverse, and every subject you mentioned is studied in depth, along with many others.

>solving problems
The field of CSE (a subset of CS) is entirely motivated by real world problems.

>>8508528
It sounds like you didn't go to the best CS program. I went to one that was only rank ~100 and I still had to do some systems and some software engineering. And a decent amount of math (but not as much as others).

But honestly, those students that come to be programmers are the ones getting the department more funding and thus more professors. Sure, you end up in classes with people that don't care about actual CS as much, but there is a silver lining. Those people wouldn't care about CS if they didn't learn to make apps. And they could learn that without a college degree. But I say take their money, and open the door for that many more CS faculty positions and that much more CS research.

Obviously, those people shouldn't call themselves computer scientists. But a BS in any science doesn't mean you get to call yourself a scientist. In fact, not even a PhD does that. Scientist is a job title. You must be employed as a scientist before you become one.

>>8508493
stop acting like learning math is harder than learning a language
learning math just takes time, any CS fag could learn advanced math theories given enough time

though its true that doing real math is much harder than programming (but please note that the exercises for which you ask for help here do not count as real math)

>>8508561
>learning a programming language is hard
>advanced math is easy

shitty b8, -0/10

>>8508567
both are easy for anyone with a brain and enough dedication

>>8508568
>both are easy
False. I've taught advanced math for years, and people `with a brain' do not find it easy in general. I don't give a fuck if it was easy for you and your friends. Very few people find learning math as easy as you seem to think it is. So yes, most can learn it with enough dedication and time; however, that does not mean that it was easy.

>>8508574
>I've taught advanced math for years
Translation: I'm a high school tutor and I've even been a TA for a whole semester

>>8508574
of course i am exaggerating, please excuse me. math isnt that easy, i have experience teaching it too.
i am just pissed by all the people around here who think they are so superior just because they are majoring in math

>>8508578
lol, you got me. I have been a TA for a whole semester. But then I got my Ph.D and became a professor.

>>8508579
Ahh, sorry then. You're spot on that internet math majors are often super obnoxious about their `intelligence' and it's so dumb.

>>8508546
>You're talking about the major, not the subject. The field of CS is very diverse, and every subject you mentioned is studied in depth, along with many others.
That's the problem; the diversity and the lack of depth. It prepares you only to become a software developer.
>The field of CSE (a subset of CS) is entirely motivated by real world problems.
Having experienced the way computer scientists try to solve problems, I'm not convinced.
>It sounds like you didn't go to the best CS program.
On the contrary, I studied physics. I'm now doing a PhD in CS, and this is when I truly started to appreciate the skills deficit in CS students; that most of them are not even prepared for postgraduate CS. That is absolutely horrifying... And this is a top ten school for CS.

>>8508585
>But then I got my Ph.D and became a professor.
Translation: I've just started my master's and already have a bunch of ideas for theses so I'm basically a tenured professor. P.S.: Don't try messing with me, I already learnt to integrate in 3 whole dimensions motherfucker.

>>8508472
The mandatory inclusion of Real Analysis in every college-level computer science curriculum.

Otherwise, courses like algorithms or data structures limit students to hints about the fundamental science.

>>8508616
Why does real, numerical, and complex analysis matter for CS. Everyone always shills this and I don't understand it.

Trick question, it will never be a serious subject

>>8508721
Complex analysis is incredibly useful. Especially when dealing with series, periodic functions, and much more. Furthermore, Cauchy theorem will allow you to integrate pretty much anything.
Real analysis is useless for non-mathematicians.

>>8508591
>That's the problem; the diversity and the lack of depth. It prepares you only to become a software developer.
That is not necessarily the case. If you take all of the software dev courses, its not surprise you can't do real CS. But my school has a TCS track, a networks track, and a system track among others. Research is ongoing in all of those fields.

Sure, lack of depth may be a problem still, but that is just as much the student's fault. If they want to go into grad school/research, they need to carefully pick the classes take and not just dick around. That would probably fixed if more schools had 'tracks' like GaTech, for example.

Additionally, undergrad in any field doesn't really prepare you for research. You can only learn to do research by doing research. You need internships and/or directed studies. This is not unique to CS.

>Having experienced the way computer scientists try to solve problems, I'm not convinced.
If you don't understand the role of computation in modern science you are being intentionally retarded. More so, considering you are doing a PhD in CS.

>I'm now doing a PhD in CS, and this is when I truly started to appreciate the skills deficit in CS students; that most of them are not even prepared for postgraduate CS. That is absolutely horrifying...
>absolutely horrifying
Let's not use hyperbole. Horrifying is a ridiculous word to use in that situation.
More to the point: For one, don't consider the MS students. If you're at a top 10 school most of them are probably Indian and Chinese who didn't go to good schools in their home country. They are obviously going to be shit and the dept. only brings them in for the money. Can't do anything about undergrad education overseas.

If there are PhD students admitted without the experience needed to succeed in the program, then there is a problem with your departments selection process.

All that being said, there is certainly room for improvement in undergrad cs education.

>>8508735
He asked why complex was useful *for CS*, not why it is useful in math.

I've done plenty of CS research and read much more. I never see any application of complex analysis or any sort of integration.

>inb4 "not doing real cs research"
give a real answer please

>>8508735
Real analysis is useful for economics

>>8508487
N=1

>>8508472
> for CS to be a serious subject
It is a serious subject. Literally everywhere but on /sci/.

Assuming you mean:
>what would it take for CS to be considered a serious science subject

Stop using it to train software developers. Treat it as a dedicated branch of mathematics and then make separate dedicated degrees for software engineering. Already happening in some places.

>>8508797
You didn't even answer the question you made up. You answered
>what would it take for CS to be considered a serious major

>>8508816
The subject is kind of defined by the typical material taught in the classes of the major.

>>8508823
LOL okay. That's a ridiculous way to define a subject but whatever.

>>8508772
OK, let me explain better.
Complex analysis is not used as a field of study (although the it can be).
Complex analysis (CA) is mostly used as a tool. Periodic functions and signal analysis appear everywhere.

E.g.
>A tree (in the mathematical sense) appears.
>It's elements seem to follow a pattern

Hmmm. How can you find an easy way to represent it?

>You remember complex analysis
>You use a Fourier series
>It is very effective

>>8508870
Now that's more like it :)

>>8508865
You have to use that way to define it if you want to understand why it is not respected. Because that is what people see and judge the subject on.

>>8508878
No. That's fucking retarded.

1. It is respected.

2. When you talk about the 'field of CS', you are referring to the body of knowledge of CS, current research in the area, and the impact it has. You are not referring to the cs undergrad curriculum.

I mean, if someone says "CS is shit because they only teach software engineering in undergrad" you should recognize this as an opinion of someone who don't know anything and ignore him. This person has no idea about how CS enables science in literally every field. Even some math proofs use computation. Thus you call him the retard that he is and move on.

>>8508472
Can I guy doing mech or electrical get a job in CS after reading from that list?

Also I'm looking to self learn programming. Can someone order this list or just point out the starters?

>>8508910
Then why didn't you call OP the retard that he is and moved on?

>>8508915
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+learn+programming&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

No need for someone to type up an answer that has been answered thousands of times before.

>>8508918
Just wanted to BTFO some retards

>>8508785
Well of course. Linear problems have linear solutions. There already is an entire branch of mathematics dedicated to it.

>>8508915
Yes, but you would need to get experience in the form of practica or open source projects for your CV.

>>8508915
You mean as a software developer or as someone who actually pursues computer science mathematics as an academic subject?

>be math or physics fag
>take "computers are fun 101"
>hardest assignment is printing hello world
>"wow, CS is such an easy meme !"
come back when you design a consistent, scaled out, reliable database with fault tolerance, security and that can handle heavy traffic.
Google could literally lose an entire datacentre and nobody would notice except for the system administrators because of how fucking smart their engineers and researchers have been when implementing the databases. If you think that shit is any easier than your topology meme you're delusional

>>8509361
>Thinks you need intelligence to be a DBA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, typical fa/g/got.

>>8509385
are you retarded ? I'm talking about designing such systems. Here, read this and come back when you're done.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/AllThingsDistributed/sosp/amazon-dynamo-sosp2007.pdf

>>8508472
For CS majors to be required to go through all the books/subjects in that image.

>>8508591
>lack of depth
You mean like every undergraduate major?

>>8509385
I'd honest to God be willing to bet that you can't even write proper SQL triggers to guarantee a disjunct and total relation between three tables.

>>8508721

Just look at the 2 books by Sedgewick

>[Analysis of Algorithms] is intended to be a thorough overview of the primary techniques used in the mathematical analysis of algorithms. The material covered draws from classical mathematical topics, including discrete mathematics, elementary real analysis, and combinatorics, as well as from classical computer science topics, including algorithms and data structures. The focus is on “average-case” or “probabilistic” analysis, though the basic mathematical tools required for “worst-case” or “complexity” analysis are covered as well. We assume that the reader has some familiarity with basic concepts in both computer science and real analysis. In a nutshell, the reader should be able to both write programs and prove theorems. The book is meant to be used as a textbook in an upper-level course on analysis of algorithms. Despite the large amount of literature on the mathematical analysis of algorithms, basic information on methods and models in widespread use has not been directly accessible to students and researchers in the field. This book aims to address this situation, bringing together a body of material intended to provide readers with both an appreciation for the challenges of the field and the background needed to learn the advanced tools being developed to meet these challenges. Supplemented by papers from the literature, the book can serve as the basis for an introductory graduate course on the analysis of algorithms, or as a reference or basis for self-study by researchers in mathematics or computer science who want access to the literature in this field.

>>8509430
>Analytic combinatorics aims to enable precise quantitative predictions of the properties of large combinatorial structures. The theory has emerged over recent decades as essential both for the analysis of algorithms and for the study of scientific models in many disciplines, including probability theory, statistical physics, computational biology and information theory. With a careful combination of symbolic enumeration methods and complex analysis, drawing heavily on generating functions, results of sweeping generality emerge that can be applied in particular to fundamental structures such as permutations, sequences, strings, walks, paths, trees, graphs and maps.

>>8508493
>I failed algorithms 3 times and refuse to believe anyone could find it easy

so much butthurt

>>8509406
Even less depth, then. Or a lack of depth in fields that didn't have much depth to them in the first place.

>>8508472
Guaranteeing the guy who made that infograph didn't read all the books on it.

>>8508591
>that most of them are not even prepared for postgraduate CS. That is absolutely horrifying

I've heard numerous CS professors outright say that if you want to go to graduate school for CS, then do your undergrad in anything other than CS. It's not horrifying, it's what's expected of them.

>>8509460
>want to go into CS, do something completely different
>want to go into math? major in philosophy, math undergrads are too applied
>want to go into English? Major in Chinese, it will give you a better appreciation for the finer technicalities of the English language

This board is supposed to be smart

>>8509474
>If you didn't do 3 semester of java + 2 semesters of OOP + a semester of GUIs, then how are you going to do graduate coursework!?

>>8509452
Duh, didn't you see the bottom right one? No one on /sci/ has those mad skills.

>>8509482
>what do you mean I have to take an architecture class I haven't even taken circuits! What's a kernel? Who cares about file systems.

Besides, whatever shit you're lacking in you'll pick up on the way. Half of grad school is learning how learn on your own.

>>8509493
>Half of grad school is learning how learn on your own.

That's what undergrad was supposed to do.

>>8509482
The undergrad program for CS at my university is mostly math. The other courses are 2 semester courses of actual programming, 2 for algorithms, 1 for databases and 1 for electrical engineering foundations of computers, plus some labs.

Actual programming is a pretty small part of the degree. Maybe that's just my university though.

>>8508765
>That is not necessarily the case.
Of course, CS research is completely different to undergrad CS. CS is not a serious subject at undergrad, as it is a glorified software engineering course. In the few cases where it's not, there's too many software engineers in the graduate pool for the "computer scientist" label to mean anything. At the graduate level, near enough every person I meet does completely different work, and comes from a different degree background. Still, everyone works under the same umbrella term, as if HCI or UX is comparable to CP or ML. Therefore in regards to the original question; it would take us distinguishing the different branches from each other, and identifying the scientific branches, and calling those "computer science" for CS to be a serious subject.
>undergrad in any field doesn't really prepare you for research.
True, but with a physics background, I would at least be in a good position to start a physics, chemistry, or (in my case) computer science PhD. If a CS undergrad wanted to study ML, for example, they would find it substantially harder than a maths/physics undergrad (in my experience), because they simply aren't prepared for it by their undergrad degree; it's too watered down by all the other useless stuff that gets brought under the CS rainbow.
>you don't understand the role of computation in modern science
No, I meant I've seen computer scientists try to reduce interdisciplinary problems down to trivial models they can deal with, and fail to get results. I'm not impressed with many attempts to solve real world problems in CS.
>Let's not use hyperbole.
It's pretty horrifying for a degree that does nothing but give students a working skillset to not give the skills necessary to continue with more advanced work in their own field.
>there are PhD students admitted without the experience needed to succeed
Quite the opposite. They're the only ones WITH the skills, this is the fundamental problem.

>>8509500
Undergrad gives you a broad basis for a field.

It doesn't teach you how to learn shit your professor doesn't shove down your throat, or that is poorly defined in literature. It teaches you to learn how things are, not why things are.

>>8509474
Yeah, the CS majors in my department are also confused by the number of other majors able to do CS.

>>8509509
>HCI and UX is a joke
You realize the problem of conveying information to people in a way that everyone can understand instantly, and making it possible navigate a website having never seen it before is incredibly challenging?

If you think any field doesn't get incredibly difficult and complex with depth your ignorant, and part of what's wrong with academia. There is no "more noble" field.

>>8509514
OH COULD IT BE THAT THE SKILLS YOU LEARN AS AN UNDERGRADUATE ARE LARGELY TRANSFERABLE?

>>8509533
Except in CS it appears.

>>8509526
>HCI and UX is a joke
Yes.
Sorry that your incredibly difficult and complex field where you figure out how many colour vision deficient people prefer neutral backgrounds to high contrast colours doesn't get funded.

>>8509540
I'm cs and i work in chemistry, but I guess you're right, you're only as limited by how dumb you are.

>>8509556
very nice. many fields overlap in interesting ways, and it seems that cs intersects with all of them, which is why it's so hard to define.

>>8509564
Maybe because it's necessary tool for fields and required as a part of almost all STEM?

>>8509577
Yeah, I guess computers are pretty neato. I dunno what I'd do without all those IT guys keeping it running, and all those software engineers making the programs I use to do science with.

>>8509452
Probably """"""""""""required"""""""""""" textbooks for his uni courses that he read every once in a while.

>>8509585
Yea I mean I'd be out of a job if the CS people didn't make statistical packages and machine learning libraries! Why I just interpret the results of what my computer says!

>>8509621
That's not very scientific of you, anon. A good scientist tries to understand the statistical techniques he's using. Which is probably why those packages and libraries are written largely by people form other degree backgrounds.

Iam intersted in AI research. CSfags, what should I know from your shitty degree to study AI seriously?

>>8509644
The one message you should take from this thread is that if you wanna do high level CS work, you should avoid CS like the plague.
You need to know:
a) A programming language
b) Mathematics

>>8509644
Don't go into AI, incredibly competitive. also a complete cluster with out any unified idea currently. You'll end up playing with black boxes hoping one of them works well enough to make you top dog until the next conference.

Also the idea of "general artificial intelligence" is probably unrepresentatable in our current theory of compututation

>>8509644
Don't fall for the AGI meme, if that's why you're interested in it.

it is serious if you go to a proper university that isn't on the level of a community college

>>8509644
Assuming you have a math degree.

Algorithms, logic, agent architecture, preferably two or three programming languages (like Lisp, C and Python).

>>8509594
>CS program requiring C++

kek

>>8508495
what do you think computer science is?

>>8509655
>AGI is a meme
>AGI isnt the apex of humanity
>we are not going to see an AGI in 2 generations

Youre a meme, anon.

>>8509697
>>AGI isnt the apex of humanity
>>we are not going to see an AGI in 2 generations

You have to be over the age of 18 to post here

>>8509709
>You have to be over the age of 18 to post here
That's the tragedy of it all.

>>8508910
>1. It is respected.

By people who don't know anything about CS.

>This person has no idea about how CS enables science in literally every field. Even some math proofs use computation

Science being done on a computer =/= CS enables science. That praise should go to CpE.

>>8508915
>Also I'm looking to self learn programming. Can someone order this list or just point out the starters?

The most important things would be:

>Learn to code
Programming: Principles and Practice Using C++ by Stroustrup
C++ Primer by Lippman, Lajoie, and Moo

>Learn to code data structures and algorithms
Data Structures and Algorithms in C++ by Drozdek
Algorithms in C++ Parts 1-4: Fundamentals, Data Structures, Sorting, Searching by Sedgewick

>Learn system programming
Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment by Stevens and Rago
Windows System Programming by Hart

At this point you can pretty much start coding. But to get a better understanding of what you're doing:

>Learn computer architecture
Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective by Bryant & O'Hallaron
Computer Organization and Design: The Hardware/Software Interface by Patterson & Hennessy

>Learn operating systems principles
Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, Galvin, and Gagne
Modern Operating Systems by Tanenbaum

>Learn proofs, then learn algorithm design and analysis
A Transition to Advanced Mathematics by Smith, Eggen, and St. Andre
Book of Proof by Hammack (http://www.people.vcu.edu/~rhammack/BookOfProof/)
-
Introduction to Algorithms by Cormen, Leiserson, Rivest, and Stein
Algorithm Design by Kleinberg and Tardos

After this, you learn in whatever direction you want to go down.

>>8508523
you faggot
if you want that stuff it is there in the standard curriculum
if you want to be a web programmer that stuff is worthless

>>8508735
>Complex analysis is incredibly useful. Especially when dealing with series, periodic functions, and much more
When would a typical CS grad ever need that stuff in the workplace. EE/CompE I can see needing that material, but a Java programmer never.

>>8509501
Same at my uni

>>8509501
>mostly math
>ie we use set notation and logical qualifiers in our courses. ZOMG!

>>8510300
No, C++ is awful to start with.
He should do SICP first
in haskell or LISP, python works too.

Functional programming is the excellent way of introducing people into programming because you will work a lot with actually solving problems instead of bothering a lot with the syntaxes which c++ brings. After SICP you go c++, actually go into c++ after you have coded some vhdl and assembly to better understand pointers later.

>>8510421
>>>/g/tfo

>>8510421

Here is my order, I am studying CE.

>Start learning coding by having a lot of fun
SICP
Try it out in LISP first, if your eally hate the paranthesis or have previous experience of python then you can go for python aswell.
While python has excellent support for functional programming, nothing will beat LISP and Haskell. lambdas are important in functional programming and it's used a lot in SICP. While lambdas in python are so much better than the lambdas in for example Java it is still crippled compared to Haskell and Lisp.

http://composingprograms.com/ (SICP in python)

>Start getting more into Imperative programming
Since you have hustled a lot with avoiding shared states in SICP, you can't avoid it and this is where imperative programming can have its advantages. I hate Java, seriously I do but I think it is okay to start out with it to begin coding som OOP where you can apply imperative programming to its fullest. Java has very similar syntax to C (and consequently c++) with great exceptionhandling and good autocompletion and fairly strong IDEs (which unfortunately java beats everyone in) you will grasp the concept very fast.

Don't put much time into it,
download INtelliJ Idea with all autocompletion and code your own tetris with powerups. It takes around 3 weeks to complete if you put around 1-2 hours every day.

Interacting with java you will now how to write in c++ but you are still a terrible coder. So you are ready for handling memories!
>Implementation of datastructures and algorithms, heuristics, optimization

It is now you are getting introduced to programming for real
Familiarize yourself with pointers and references.
Read: Principles and Practice Using C++ by Stroustrup
C++ Primer by Lippman, Lajoie, and Moo

Read it alongside with

Data Structures and Algorithms in C++ by Drozdek
Algorithms in C++ Parts 1-4: Fundamentals, Data Structures, Sorting, Searching by Sedgewick

>Concurrent programming, C programming
continue..

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>>8510436
>java
>in CE

Your school is totally shit.

>>8510436

You are now a beginner in programming, you're now ready to get into programming that will turn you bald because of all the fucking deadlocks you will receive. It is time to code your own kernel, or rather you are no ready to repair a broken OS.

https://web.stanford.edu/class/cs140/projects/pintos/pintos_1.htm

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>>8510443

>>8510452
>b.multiply(

absolutely disgusting shit

>>8510443
We did not have Java.
I am just saying that after just programming functionally he would rather start solving problems immediately in imperative language.

Coming to an environment such as c++ with very crypted long and long error messages from the compiler is not I would recommend.
Java has very similar syntax afterall, when you are self learning it is important to have fun. Also the garbage collection in java will do wonders for somebody who just wants to grasp the concept of imperative programming. Coding a trivial tetris with powerups will be fun in java because when you are doing something stupid Java will tell you exactly what you are doing stupidly. The IDE will also force you to write the code so that it is easily readable. It will force you to learn all naming conventions and so on which SICP does not teach you. Interacting with the IDE will teach you stuff; on the other hand IDE can most of the time be wrong.

After you are done with this don't ever look back at java.

>>8510452
Sorry, but maths isn't prettier in c++ either.

>>8510462
>doesn't know what operator overloading is

kek

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>>8510460
>seriously implying java's error messages are better than C++

You must be trolling.

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>>8510436
This advice is so god damn retarded I just fucking can't.

C and C++ are not scary languages, people. They were the first languages I learned, and I'm a fucking brainlet.

>muh syntax, muh memory management
Who cares, fags? You're going to have to know these languages eventually, even you're serious at all about computer science. You might as well learn them now. Learning these languages will give you a better understanding of how your computer works, as well. Essential for systems programming.

Suggesting that a beginner should try to learn JAVA before C++ is absolutely batshit retarded. If you know C++, you can easily pick up Java. Not the other way around. In Java, all the memory management is handled for you, so when you start trying to learn C++, you're going to make a lot of mistakes. Doing that shit isn't trivial if you've been used to coding without doing it.

Seriously, just fucking learn C and C++ you goddamn brainlets. If you're smart enough to learn science and mathematics, you can figure that shit out. Most beginner books are written for literal babies, anyway, so you should be able to zip right through them. Jesus Christ, people.

>>8510385
that is fine if you do not want to code for a living but some indian or chinese guy will leave you in the dust at a coding job

enjoy being fired for being slow and not being able to turn out a commercial product

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>>8508472

>lower right

>>8510473
I am not saying that they are scary languages,
C and C++ are my favourites

>so when you start trying to learn C++, you're going to make a lot of mistakes

They will still do those mistakes getting straight into c++ anyway. It's just that 20-30hours experience in java is enough to grasp the concept of inheritance, abstract classes, superclasses and design patterns and all other bullshit that comes with OOP. Therefore, a beginner having minor experience in java can solely focus on debugging the memory leaks and learning the memory management in c++.

Jesus christ man, I am not saying that they are supposed to learn DALG using java.

>>8508541
TOPKEK SAVED

>>8510490
>xkcd
>"top kek"

Back to >>>/trash/

>>8510488
>>8510473
>>8510460
>>8510436
>>8510421
>>8510300
Good to see I sparked a discussion.
Learnt basic babby C++ in 8th grade then took computers and learnt Java in 9th and 10th. We learnt basics like inheritance,classes,function,polymorphism,all those things.

I'll listen to this anon probably >>8510300

what about a fag that wants to go from CS to maths? i wanted to BSc in maths but ended up falling for the meme of "better job prospects" and the course has lots of electives, from maths included, which i picked up and just fell in love with it. what do i need to know to go for a masters in math?
ps. BSc are only 3 years here
pps. i had group theory, calc, combinatorics/graphs, number theory and prob and statistics

>>8510452
It only looks that horrible because you are using objects instead of primitive datatypes.

>>8510688
you need proofs (eccles) analysis (rudin) algebra (gallian)
after that you can take what you want
for jobs numerical analysis and linear programming
get good with one of the 3m languages and a regular language

>>8510372
That is so ignorant.
Periodic values appear everywhere.
How do you deal with them?
I am waiting.
How do you deal with asymptotes?
Programmers should know more math, not less.

>>8510940
Thanks. Forgot to include linear algebra as well.

I'd love to do research, any advice in specific?

By the way, what is the background needed for rudin?

>>8510488
>It's just that 20-30hours experience in java is enough to grasp the concept of inheritance, abstract classes, superclasses and design patterns and all other bullshit that comes with OOP.

Or you could just ignore OOP stuff until you've learned the basics. Starting with OOP just creates programmers that over use it when it's not needed.

>learning the memory management

Memory management isn't rocket science. Plus there are smart pointer in c++11 now so you don't even have to worry about it in the beginning either.

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>>8510688
>i

>>8511116
one calculus book
one linear algebra book
one proofs book
if school has no proofs course then a discrete math book

as far as research depends on what you like
i like real time trading systems
some like engineering math
some like cs type math

>>8511222
we did a little bit of proofs (mostly induction) in the discrete math and since I'm in my 3rd year (final year) I've had a lot of interaction with proofs, tho maybe quick reviewing a book would be good.
my calc is average, especially multivariable, gotta look into that then I guess. Linear algebra I reviewed last month to try and into artin's algebra, which I think is a good book. do you consider it worse than the one you recommended (gallian) ?

I really like cs type math. combinatorics, graphs and all the discrete math in general. one of the topics I really liked the most was algebra, it looks amazing. I also liked calc, but not as much as the others, even though I haven't had as much interaction with it as the others.
Any tips ?

>>8510940
>algebra (gallian)

Gallian is a remedial algebra book for students not looking to go any further in their education. If you want to do a masters in math you need to be at Artin/Herstein's level.

>>8511116
>what is the background needed for [Baby] Rudin

"Mathematical Maturity". Neither Rudin nor Artin should be your first experience after a proofs class. Learn Linear Algebra (the theoretical version with vector spaces) and Topology beforehand.

>>8511260
i had group theory, calc, combinatorics/graphs, number theory and prob and statistics andI consider myself at least a bit mature. what's baby rudin (title) ?

>>8510688
>>8511366
>I had group theory, combinatorics/graphs, number theory and prob and statistics

If you're referring to the ~5 pages of material you saw in discrete math, you've learned nothing.

>>8511366
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=baby+rudin

>>8511369
no my dude I've been in college for 3 years having math courses from the CS dpt and from the math dpt , discrete math wasn't the only math course I've had

>>8511369
also, this started because I want to know what I'm lacking to go for a Masters in math coming from CS friend

>>8511249
this would be good and employable
the book is free as pdf

https://www.amazon.com/Convex-Optimization-Stephen-Boyd/dp/0521833787
http://www.stanford.edu/class/ee364a/courseinfo.html
https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=3940DD956CDF0622

this is good.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1usFRN4LCMcfIV7UjHNuQg/videos
https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Cryptography-Textbook-Students-Practitioners/dp/3642041000
http://www.crypto-textbook.com/

supplement
https://www.amazon.com/Elliptic-Curves-Cryptography-Mathematics-Applications/dp/1420071467

>>8511391

Your question was answered here>>8510940
Once you have had these courses you can pick any area to study. It will just maybe one extra semester of grad school. Here are the way courses are structured at one school.

http://www.ucsd.edu/catalog/courses/MATH.html

>>8511414
thank you.
I was just trying to clarify the other friend.

>>8511398
this looks pretty neat, thanks a lot anon

>>8508472
>serious subject
It's serious enough to produce very useful workers for the economy.

If you want more rigor and depth on a particular topic then go study applied math courses.

>>8511249
Go through some of the books here: http://4chan-science.wikia.com/wiki/Mathematics

Review Vector Calculus (Hubbard or Edwards Jr.'s book) and review Proofs (Laczkovich book). Then study ODEs, Differential Geometry, PDEs, Set Theory, Mathematical Logic, Vector Spaces, Complex Variables, Real Analysis, Manifolds, Point-set Topology, and Abstract Algebra.

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>>8509648
> If you want to study a CS field, you should avoid CS.

You should stop using drugs, anon.

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>>8511712

CS is flooded by idiots that just want money and halfass everything. Just like business degree.

A little bit off-topic but

>majoring in CS
>dont give a fuck about web dev or whatever, care more about theory and math-related applications

if i take only heavy theory classes will I be able to get a job? I need the money

>>8511730
>will I get a job

If you have the skills employers are looking for, you'll get a job. Take whatever classes you find more interesting, they don't matter. As long as you learn about the practical aspects on your own time, you'll be fine. Do some side projects to pad your resume so you can show that you know what you're doing and you "have passion".

>>8510671
>Learnt basic babby C++ in 8th grade then took computers and learnt Java in 9th and 10th

Well why didn't you say so?
Yeah then listen to that guy, I assumed had no experience at all with anything CS related.

I still recommend reading SICP, It's a really fun and easy course. I had lots of fun, especially when it was the first time ever that I programmed.

>>8511740
maybe i should rephrase - do well-paying entry level jobs exist that deal with these aspects?

it seems to me like these jobs should actually pay more than basic web dev / code monkey software dev shit

im admittedly really ignorant when it comes to what is out there in the job market, but some kind of analysis job seems like it would pay highly

>>8511730
Doesn't really matter. If you want a job as software developer, then you will have to show that you can code anyway, regardless of what classes you did to get your degree.

>>8511747
Cryptography, artificial intelligence, robotics, embedded systems, medical CS, etc.

All of these fields offer jobs that are more math oriented and also pay way better than some web dev job. Many universities offer specializations like those fields in their master programs.

>>8511717
It's not a problem in my university. After failing in most of theoretical CS courses, this kind of people usually migrates to a SE or IT major.

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>cs

>>8511794
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE THAT"S NOT THE COMPARISON OPERATOR THAT"S THE ASSIGNMENT OPERATOR THAT"S ALWAYS GOING TO RETURN TRUE EXCEPT WHEN GAMERGATER == 0

>>8511730

You're better off majoring in math and self studying the CS stuff you find interesting. Then on your resume instead of listing "relevant coursework", just say "related studies" and list the CS topics you've studied on your own including as many keywords/buzzwords as possible.

>Computer Skills: Working knowledge of C++, C, Python, ARM, Matlab, Maple, and R programming languages. Proficient in using Microsoft Office, OpenOffice, and LaTeX. Familiar with Windows, Android, and Unix.
>Related Studies: Algorithm Analysis, Computational Complexity Theory, Computer Architecture, Operating Systems, Computer Networks, Parallel Programming (threads, MPI, OpenMP, OpenCL, CUDA), Computer Graphics (OpenGL), Computer Vision (OpenCV), Machine Learning, Information Theory, Natural Language Processing, Control Theory, Robotics, Probability, Stochastic Processes, Bayesian Statistics, and Data Mining/Big Data.

If you also have a website documenting projects you've done like getting a pair drones to fly up to a piano and start playing it in sync, employers will be throwing themselves at you.

>>8511780
Thanks a lot actually. I need to see a career adviser at my school, but so far the people I've talked to about CS are trying to get me to do some boring web dev shit

>>8511803
It's a bit too late for me to change majors unfortunately, but I will try and gear my electives towards theory related shit, as well as independently studying some math concepts ( which I've already been doing )

God this thread is littered with autism left and right, no wonder CS gets such a bad name. I haven't read a single reasonable post in this thread.

>>8508493
>grad school is not self directed learning

>>8511712
That's just how bad the undergrad is, anon.

>>8511873
>I haven't read a single reasonable post in this thread.
Really? Not even this:
>>8508785

>>8509545
this

>>8508472
>studying the art of hammering instead of the art of sculpting

Computers are just a tool. Thus, computer science will always be a backwards study for pipefitters, not for the people who advance humanity.

>>8512581
sorry, not everything can be as useful as topology and other theoretical memes.

>>8512587
>muh "abstract math isn't useful in DA REEL WURLD" meme

Only brainlets who do not understand such math believe that it is useless in the practical realm.

>>8511873
You're not contributing.

>>8511803
Not him, but I want to add a thing.
Make sure that you major in Applied Math. Some people here prefer Pure, but all the jobs are in applied.
Also, make sure to take the computational classes.

>>8513848
>Make sure that you major in Applied Math. Some people here prefer Pure

Applied Math (in undergrad) is just a watered down Pure Math major.

>but all the jobs are in applied

Jobs posting rarely differentiate pure/applied math.

>Also, make sure to take the computational classes.

No, make sure to take numerical analysis and mathematical optimization classes. Computational classes are a joke.

>>8513876
>>Also, make sure to take the computational classes.
>No, make sure to take numerical analysis and mathematical optimization classes. Computational classes are a joke.

>implying those arent exactly the classes to which he was referring

>>8513893

There's a difference between theoretical numerical analysis and computational numerical cookbook classes

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>>8508493

>mathematics is so much simpler than even the simplest programming language
Leslie Lamport, Turing Award winner

I just dual majored in CS and Math. The CS program at my uni has very few requirements, they even force you to minor in another field in order to graduate. So, I just delayed all my "useless" classes like Operating Systems and Computer Networks to my last semester senior year and focusing my Junior Year on Algorithm Analysis, Theory Of computation, and rigorous math courses.

>>8514295
>operating systems
>networks
>useless

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>>8513931