if you don't get triggered by this you are LITERALLY an engineer

>>8393710
>if you don't get triggered by this you are LITERALLY an engineer
it checks out, I didn't get triggered at all.

>>8393710
I don't even know what a logarithm is.

t. CS student

>>8393710
I'm fucking triggered, so guess I passed the test. Phew that was close, was a bit worried for a moment.

>>8393710
Wait people use log for the natural logarithm and not ln? Why the fuck would someone do that?

>there is already a notation to signify log base e
>log alone can mean log base 10
>hurrr no, have log mean log base e as well
It's retarded and creates conflict. There are few rules in maths and one of them is to not be ambiguous. I don't care if base e is more common

>>8393740
spotted the high schooler
friendly reminder that 4chan is 18+
>>8393745
>>>/diy/ is over there, cocksucker

>>8393749
Ayy man, what I do in my bedroom is my business. Make an argument or fuck off

>>8393740
In actual practice, "log(x)" with no base specified generally means whatever base is commonly used in that field. Mathematicians and physicists will use it for the natural log, astronomers and a few others will use it for log base 10, computer scientists will use it for log base 2. Or it'll just mean log base "it doesn't matter", if comparing logarithmic curves to other curves.

The log 10/ln e convention pretty much only exists in school.

>>8393710
>Getting triggered because of certain conventions.
This mean that you're a below average retard who can't do anything.

Keep shitposting, m8. That's all you're good for.

>>8393759
the fact that you say
>log alone can mean log base 10
is just indication that primary education has failed us, not that this "convention" is in any way better.

leibniz thought that dy/dx was literally a fraction of infinitesimal numbers (totally meaningless without extending to the hyperreals), and unfortunately that interpretation is still taught to high schoolers taking their first calculus class. hell, my freshman diffeq course was taught with shit like "multiplying by dx". this doesn't make it correct.

>>8393783
I hope you kill yourself soon for having such deplorable opinions.

>>8393710
Using "log(x)" ever is stupid because it's ambiguous.

Using it to mean "ln(x)" happened for obvious reasons, but since "ln(x)" is well established and shorter, there's never any excuse for using "log(x)" instead.

Using it to mean "log10(x)" happened because of slide rules, where it was of immediate practical importance for a much larger number of people. It doesn't matter that slide rules are obsolete, it only matters that this conflicting convention also got established.

It doesn't matter which convention would be more useful or more logical, because you're never going to succeed in convincing everyone to disregard the other. For any kind of practical communication, avoid using "log(x)" to mean anything.

>>8393710
http://gallica.bnf.fr/m/ark:/12148/bpt6k69587/f224.image.r=logar.langEN

>yfw Euler just used [math]\ell[/math]

>>8393710
Engineer here. I'm the guy who does the work you guys aren't smart enough for, and too lazy to implement, and they're completely correct.

I'm sorry you just can't deal with real world problems. Grow up.

P.S. You will never get 300k starting.

>>8393724

It's the opposite of multiplication where you find how many times something goes into something to be something else, I think you learn it in calculus classes.

>>8393783
>that interpretation is still taught to high schoolers taking their first calculus class. hell, my freshman diffeq course was taught with shit like "multiplying by dx". this doesn't make it correct.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If you think that implies someone is a high schooler you're very, very wrong.
Every single person in physics does that, from the first courses to the more advanced courses.

>>8393783
>(totally meaningless without extending to the hyperreals)
>(totally meaningful with extending to the hyperreals)
Infinitesimals and infinities are the intuitive interpretation of calculus. They're how calculus was invented, and it worked perfectly fine without a "rigorous formulation" in terms of limits, and explaining it in terms of infinitesimals continued working perfectly well through all the time that small-minded pedants told their students that infinitesimals were just wrong, right up until someone bothered to put them in rigorous terms with the hyperreals.

Rigour is a matter of taste, as demonstrated by Wildberger. If you want to find conceptual flaws in something that works fine, you can always escalate to another level of autism.

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>>8393922
nice meme

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>>8393724
>CS student doesn't know about logarithms

10/10

>>8394061

Name one useful thing you get by logsing numbers instead of just timesing them.

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>>8394065
Algorithm analysis

>>8394075

It's 2016, you don't need to know how efficient your program is anymore, even cheap computers are super-fast now.

>>8394080
>t. cs brainlet

Or you're LITERALLY not autistic. What the fuck does it matter? Log implies base 10, log with a specified X of course means log base X, and ln means log base e.

>>8394061
nice catch dude u got him xD

>>8394018

you sound smart, I am dump.

>>8394018
>If you want to find conceptual flaws in something that works fine, you can always escalate to another level of autism

Beauriful

>>8393710
All logs are the same to within a multiplicative constant. This discussion is irrelevant.

>>8394233
You use e and ln because you cannot perform derivation on an exponential function otherwise. e is defined as the number of which you get the same function when you perform a derivation of e^x with respext to x.

>>8393710
>relegating "log" to the menial duty of "how many decimal digits does the number have?"
fuck that, I'll keep using "log" to mean something important

>>8393970
That's division idiot

>>8394153
Yeah but log also means log base e, fyi :^)

>>8394319
log is "how many times can I divide by this same number until I get to 1"

>he doesn't think that sin(90) = 1

I bet you use tau instead of pi too.

Someone here is going to have to brief me on why engineers are getting so much hate.

I am not an engineer myself, but I am curious.

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>>8394355
it's not hateful to truthfully acknowledge the facts that 1. engineers are gay as hell, and 2. engineers don't do math or science.

>>8393970
No. The closest analogue is opposite of exponentiation.

>>8394355

Pure math-fags and engineers have always hated each other. They're diametrically opposed philosophically. One spends all their time and energy exploring purely abstract topics free from worldly concerns while the other spends all their time finding ways around needing to know the mathematically correct answers by engineering approximated shortcuts so they can focus on material world issues instead.

>>8394366

Exponentiation is literally just doing lots of multiplication.

>>8393710
I did not get triggered by this and I can assure you I am no engineer. I use them interchangeably, whenever I feel like it. Only faggots use logs of any base other than e, so there is no confusion.

t. math guy

>>8394355
The fact that [math]\text{Math}\supset\text{Physics}\supset\text{Engineering}[/math]
and people like this >>8394368 exist

>>8394344
nigger stop stealing my self-discovered insights

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>>8394350
>>he doesn't think that sin(90) = 1

But it isn't.............................

>>8394374
>multiplication is literally just doing lots of addition

Shush, brainlet.

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>>8394018
>as demonstrated by Wildberger
almost got me there senpai nice one

>>8394080
this anon is right
whether or not P = NP isnt even relevant anymore, give him the million dollars for trivializing the problem

>>8393710
I like the fact that he pointed out Big Oh in CS. Log(n) almost never has a base specified because the base change formula leads to a multiplier that is ignored anyways when looking at efficiency classes.

Other than the cringy reddit-tier circle jerking among the commenters, I see nothing wrong

>>8393745
Ln and log both mean base e unless you specify the logorithm to be of another base. Having 'log' mean base 10 is like having the multiplication sign mean 'multiply by 86'. Sure you might use it once but your chances of using base 10 are the same as you using base i .

>>8394417
Im pretty sure he implied degrees not raidans

>>8394681
I've always thought that
lg ~base 10
ln ~base e
log is generic, guess from context

When you're taking a test or writing notes, you will save a lot of time writing ln instead of log. One has one less characters in it.

Have none of you fuckers taken second semester Chemistry? You use log10 a shit ton and just write log

>>8395203

its just memes lad. log10 is used heaps in electrical engineering for bode plots, and log2 is used heaps in compsci for big O.

>>8395205
see >>8394594
Big Oh doesn't actually require specification of a base (unless it's something like n^log)

>>8393922
This.

This is the truth why /sci/ hates engineers. Most of the people here are mediocre losers who were bullied in school and they're like "I'm muh, nerd! pure physics and pure math!".

It's priceless when you see the confusion in the eyes of the purefag when an engineer goes and gets an applied math (sometimes a physics) degree as a second MSc.

>>8395210
How's freshmen year going?

>>8394368
>spends all their time finding ways around needing to know the mathematically correct answers by engineering approximated shortcuts

Something like that. They construct their models in a way necessary for the problem at hand.
Most things in physics are also approximations. Lot of physical systems can't be accurately modeled. An engineer just discards the pieces aren't needed for a problem.

This doesn't mean it's mathematically not correct. Systems theory for example is a shared discipline with math and engineering.
I think you meant it's physically not entirely correct, after all it's just a model for a given problem.

>>8395210
>It's priceless when you see the confusion in the eyes of the purefag when an engineer goes and gets an applied math (sometimes a physics) degree as a second MSc.

>insecure engifag making shit up

>>8395213
>>8395222

You told me, m8. Shit, I'm gonna go and off myself now.

Really, have you ever seen a graduate engineer or physicist? I guess you didn't.

Who's the freshmen now?
Or is your education that shit in the USA? (I highly doubt that though.)

I even know a dude who went into a Physics Phd after a BSc/MSc in EE.

Keep shitposting, retards.

>not using [math] exp^{-1} [/math]

>>8395227
what did he mean by this

How the fuck do you calculate logarithms of bases other than 2, e, or 10 in your standard scientific calculator?

I had class yesterday where I had to find n, where 5.43536 = 1.02 ^ n

>>8395338
Come on, this is like Algebra I level stuff here.
Use the change of base formula:
>log_b(n) = log_c(n) / log_c(b)

So your problem would be:
>n = log_1.02(5.43536)
>n = ln(5.43536) / ln(1.02)

Any regular scientific calculator should provide the facilities to calculate that very easily.

>>8395369

Thanks anon, didn't remember that.
In my defense, I dropped college about two years ago becuase I couldn't keep affording it, and I just returned the last month, so I don't remember much.

[spoiler]I fucking regret dropping off college. Now those bastards have queued me up with a year worth of extra classes because the "curricular grid" was updated. Fuck those guys[/spoiler]

>>8393922
DELETE THIS

>>8394368
In reality professionals and academics alike do a mixture of both, it's just the fanboys and shoddy researchers than think there's a real "conflict".

>>8395203
>second semester Chemistry
I tested out of it, bruv

>You use log10 a shit ton and just write log
No, you use -p because >>8394273

>>8394532
P = NP if your computer is so fast you can't notice the difference.

>>8393710
Looks like the have never had an intro to complex analysis. Poor dumbfags.

can you turbo nerds log 10 explain why you dont have a girlfriend

>>8393710
I'm in my 7th semester for mechanical engineering and this triggered me. Am I in the wrong major?

>>8393710
This is no different than the spergs that argue about [math]\pi[/math] vs [math]\tau[/math]. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

>>8393740
Wolfram Alpha/Mathematica also uses [math]Log[x][/math] for natural logs.

>>8394368
Yeah, but that's because people are retards who need to conflict. It's as absurd as painters arguing with photographers over depiction accuracy.

>>8393710
I mean if you aren't using multiple logs bases it really doesn't matter