What's keeping us from Mars?

>>8287984
the fact that its a pointless waste of money and resources sending living bags of flesh and bones to an old dead world where there is nothing to do

>>8287988
this.
When we develop a cheap way to send things to LEO, mining will happen on it's own.
Spending a buzzilion dollars to send a dude to mars isn't worth it.

>>8287984
What do we get out of going to Mars? Now what are all the cons next to an inter-plantery war because Martians go full retard?

I just want scientists and researchers to find a way to stop aging, slow it down, or reverse it.

>>8288001

Martians would be so dependent on Earth for essential supplies that the idea of them revolting against the mother planet is inconceivable.

>>8288001
>What do we get out of going to Mars?
we figure out if life started there or not.

we learn the effects of mars gravity I guess.

im sure theres other things.

>>8287984
Sending stuff into space is really hard because humans still havent figured out to get past atmospheric friction that usually causes rockets to explode mid flight. It would be easier to just a machine artificially build probes on the moon then lauch them at Mars instead.

>>8288112
Mars being an alien planet has alot of geological discoveries waiting, minerals that dont exist on our planet will be on it and who knows what ores are underneath the surface.

>>8288107
All it takes is literally one person to fuck it up for everybody Anon.

We must remember this.

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>>8288126
>minerals that dont exist on our planet will be on it

Astronomers have no place in the Chemistry lab

>>8288132
Whats wrong with what I said?

>>8287984

The cost, for starters. Getting things there costs at least a few hundred million dollars. And given that there will be absolutely no return, the only people willing to spend that money are government-sponsored space agencies only a handful of which (NASA, JAXA) has the money and competence to pull it off.

Secondly, we don't have much information on Mars itself. NASA theorizes (and strongly assumes) that there is ice water on Mars but they don't have a detailed study of it's hydrology. This in it of itself will prevent and and all human activity until it's done. Same for a detailed study of it's soil and subsurface soil (more than just a rover scoop).

>>8288107
>Martians
>people born on Mars

You mean Jello babies, right?

>>8288136
maybe because you are a fucking retard

the shit that makes up earth makes up the rest of the universe

>>8288107
>inconceivable.
thatword.jpg

>>8288112
>im sure theres other things.
low-g beer pong

>>8288233
Well yes like duh bro but Mars would still have different minerals from earth.

Jews

>>8288250
Like what?

>>8287984
It's cold as fucking hell because of how far from the sun it is :D

>>8288250
>Hydrogen Helium Oxygen Neon Nitrogen Carbon Silicon Magnesium Iron Sulfur

The 10 most common elements in the universe are all found on Earth...hmm... really makes you wonder huh

Everything in the solar system formed from the same swirling cloud of gas and debris. You aren't going to rewrite the periodic table of elements digging on mars. If anything mars is actually missing a lot of the stuff we find on earth, granite for example.

>>8288267
Are you fucking stupid? I said minerals not elements.

>>8288267
Not him, but if travel to Mars were magically cheap it might hurt China's near-monopoly on rare earth elements.
...and if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

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>>8288275
>minerals aren't made of elements

>>8288282
There are minerals in asteroids that cant be found on earth so Mars would have minerals that also cant be found on earth.

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>>8288001

If you don't think interplanetary war isn't the coolest shit ever, you can fuck off the edge of my dick

>>8288282
Are you retarded?
Just because Mars has the same elements as Earth doesn't mean we should expect them to be arranged in exactly the same ways. It's not unreasonable to think that the different conditions on Mars would promote the formation of different materials and structures.

>>8288363
Most of the terrestrial worlds had similar conditions to start with you fucking idiot

Everything wrong with Mars and Venus has been a gradual change over millions of years

And who knows what other planets were flung out of the system, collided with gas giants, or were subject to collision with other terrestrial worlds

>>8288126
It would be cheaper and easier to mine the asteroid belt than Mars

>>8288367
>Most of the terrestrial worlds had similar conditions to start with you fucking idiot
Similar, but not the same.

>Everything wrong with Mars and Venus has been a gradual change over millions of years
Earth has also long deviated from what it looked like near the time it formed. Why wouldn't you expect those changes with time to have an impact as well?

>>8288381
Venus and Mars were probably once like Earth, but because of no decent magnetic fields and no large moons to stabilize their orbits they went to shit

next time think before you post so I dont have to waste my time correcting your bullshit

>>8288387
>next time think before you post so I dont have to waste my time correcting your bullshit
You aren't even contradicting what I wrote, though?

>>8288402
You are being obtuse on purpose, right?

>>8288001
Unexploited mineral resources.

>>8288411
Alright, let's try this again.

Yes, Mars doesn't contain any new, magical elements. However, conditions on Mars are quite different to those on Earth. There's no tectonics, the hydrology is very different, the atmosphere is different, there's less gravity, etc. This implies that, starting with the same elements, the process of mineral formation and distribution are going to behave differently. Which in turns suggests that there may be things on Mars that can't be found on Earth.

>>8288136
I'm afraid he is right sir. I'm not saying there aren't unique minerals out there in the universe, but all of the inner planets likely have the same shit based solely on the formation of our solar system and basic chem.

>>8288426
Its pretty much the same shit

>>8288367
Mars and Venus had a Mars sized object crash into them at the very early stages of their existence forming a large moon for each and inducing geological processes that are still active today, just like Earth?
No they hadn't, you fucking idiot!

>>8288586
If you just look at the elements amino acids and nitric acid are also pretty much the same shit, douchebag.

>>8288370

is this because of escape velocity?

>>8288362
this
I support Mars colonization because it means we'll get to fuck up the Martian colonies when they declare independence
with lasers

>>8288767
>>8288362
>Year 2040
>Half my life is up. At least 20-45 more years before I die.
>Got a job in the armed forces doing logistics.
>Mars colonies is mining shit and exporting back to Earth to their respective parent country.
>Mars colonies have had a single representative council government from each colony up there so they don't kill each other.
>Said council decides to unite the Martians and declare independence from Earth
>Also they jack all Earth.
>Earth governments get super pissed and declare war on the colonies.
>My ass gets shifted into the Space Division of my country's armed services, and I'll be sent into space.
Fuck.

Sanity or lack of atmosphere retention or lack of fallback in case we try to ram the moon or maybe lack of an evil regime or maybe lack of a way because the universe is shit. People only got to North America because there were legends of people arriving from the other side. I guess that would be aliens. Then we just have to figure out how they did it.

>>8288637
>amino acids and nitric acid are also pretty much the same shit
no they arent, brainlet

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>>8287984
Beware, there's somebody else on Mars.

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>>8288001
we get a planet, a virtually infinite space for the growth and expansion of human civilisation.

>>8288107
And what essential supplies would be required to be transported from Earth that couldn't be extracted from ISRU on Mars?

>>8289472

Jesus, what's the point of going to Mars if it's that fucking small?

>>8289633
Its surface area is still as big as all the surface above water on earth. There is a lot to explore

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>>8289472
>we get a planet
>an old dead useless planet that can't support our kind of life

mars is a meme planet, i hope the chinks reach it first before whatever diversity squad nasa is forced to send to their death by emperor obongo do

>>8288233
Geologist here, FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU

You have no idea how hard it is ON OUR OWN PLANET to identify all types of minerals. Just wait till we have to get out and do so on other planets.

>>8289660
Please tell me about the alternative planets that are better at supporting life

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>>8287988
>Waste of money
>Even though the soil has Calcium Perchlorate, large amounts of usable Zinc, Nickel, Magnesium, Calcium, and Iron which can be refined
>Waste of money
Pic related.

>>8288132
You do realize that there are tons of chemists working for space industries?

>>8288261
Nigger, if we found Armalcolite (a completely new mineral that cannot be found on earth) on the moon, than i'm sure there are materials completely foreign to us on mars.

>>8289728
hauling millions of tons of material from mars to earth negates any commercial viability the stuff would have in the first place

get real

>>8289728
Even though.... Calcium perchlorate...

Calcium perchlorate is classified as a metal perchlorate salt with the molecular formula Ca(ClO4)2. It is an inorganic compound that is a yellow-white crystalline solid in appearance. As a strong oxidizing agent, it reacts with reducing agents when heated to generate heat and products that may be gaseous (which will cause pressurization in closed containers). Calcium perchlorate has been categorized as having explosive reactivity.

Perclorate-chlorine. Thats OK then :)

Fuck Mars. Asteroid mining is actually feasible and will yield ungodly profit if done.

>>8289750
yeah, try redirecting a large several hundred ton rock back to earth without anything going wrong. it's possible, but extremely difficult in comparison to mining out mars.

>>8289747
If we can already commercially mine on mars, than i can assume that there would already be a way to refine them on mars.

>>8289755
What? Redirecting an NEO to an orbit around the Earth and then mining from there, is easier than firing a huge rocket all the way to mars, land, mine, escape gravity well, and fly all the way back. You're retarded if you actually think mars mining is easier.

>>8289750
>fuck progress, acquiring monetary wealth is all that every matters

People like you are the reason we've been stuck in LEO since 1972.

>>8289769
kek

>>8289633
It's a rocky planet.humans live on rocky planets.

>>8289633
>fucking small
Mars is 55.91 million mi2 in area, 1/4 of that of earth's area. That's far from small you dimwit.

>>8289748
It's a very powerful oxidiser. It can be used as a solid based fuel.

>>8287984
people like
>>8287988
>>8287992
>>8288001
>>8289633
just to name a few.

>>8289788
This is interesting

>>8289800
Quite.

>>8289793
So much this

>>8289742
There were three minerals discovered on the moon, but all three have since been found on Earth. One wasn't found until 2011.

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>>8288362
mfw this happens

>>8289159
>misquoting
poor attempt at trolling

>>8289974
what? it is exactly what you said

>>8289982
>exactly
even poorer attempt

>>8289991
I literally just copied it

>>8289995
poor troll is poor

>>8289487
All of them except maybe water. You 3D printing enthusiasts are really fucking stupid.

>>8289998
(You)

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>>8290000
checked and kek'd.

>>8290011
>removing the condition from a conditional sentence doesn't change the meaning. It's exactly the same, like a copy
(You)

>>8289974
>misquoting
Really? You said, and I quote, " amino acids and nitric acid are also pretty much the same shit, douchebag." If you don't believe me,
read your own post. >>8288637

>>8290020
Gosh, you're a stupid troll. Amazing. Good form. Good form, indeed!

>>8290015
What the fuck do you want you? Make a point

>>8290024
oops, a you too much. But I guess you like getting (You)s

>>8289974
>>8289991
>>8289998
>>8290015
>>8290023
>le ebin trolling
go back to >>>/b/ with your substanceless shitpost

>>8290027
>>8290024
Yup. No surprise your command of the English language is lacking.

>>8290030
>it's a troll calling others troll episode

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>>8290031
(You)

>>8290030
Even /b/ has substance.

>>8290034
oh the irony

>>8290035
(You)

>>8290041
(You)

>>8290042
So you really have no point to make at all?

>>8290051
already made it. here's for further reading, if you're really THAT stupid:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_sentence

>>8290054
Where did you make a point?

>>8290058
Too stupid to follow the backlinks, too?

>>8290061
No I am not. I can only assume you are triggered, because I didnt quote your whole post. Why are you so difficult and didnt just say in your first post what bothers you.

>If you just look at the elements amino acids and nitric acid are also pretty much the same shit, douchebag.

Thats still wrong.
Unless you are really generous with the "pretty much". In which case it is just a meaningless statement, since everything is the same shit if "you look at the elements"

>>8288138
>JAXA has the money and competence
>2bn annual budget
>every of their missions fails

>>8290068
>because I didnt quote your whole post. Why are you so difficult and didnt just say in your first post what bothers you.
Nothing's bothering me. I'm extraordiarily amused by the fact that you don't grasp that you change the meaning of a conditional sentence by omitting the condition and instead insist that you didn't misquote, posted "exactly" what I said and just "copied" it. If you like being ridiculed try that in a paper that's in for peer review.

>Thats still wrong.
No that's right. Both are made up of nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen. It is especially right as a rebuttal of the earlier statement that Mars is uninteresting because it's made up of the same elements as Earth.

>In which case it is just a meaningless statement, since everything is the same shit if "you look at the elements"
So you couldn't be bothered to get an overview of the discussion that was going on before, just looked at a statement, not only took it out of context but shortened it by the decisive condition and then claim you're not a troll. This is really funny.

>>8287984
ur mums gravitational pull

>>8290081
>what I said and just "copied" it
I copied it. thats a fact


>Both are made up of nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen
If that makes it "pretty much the same shit" for you, ok.

>This is really funny.
It is really a blast having a discussion with you. Are you going to make a point or do you want to be snarky for the sake of it.
Please tell me how I'm wrong. If you look at the elements, you can argue that everything is the same by your logic.

>>8290097
>I copied it. thats a fact
And the guys who released the Ems Dispatch never invented anything new. They just copied. You're really dumb.

>If that makes it "pretty much the same shit" for you, ok.
Still not getting the point, eh?

>Are you going to make a point
I already did. It's not my supposed lack of making a point. It's your lack of an effort at reading comrehension that spawned this whole subthread.
And, frankly, I see no reason to spell it out in such minute detail that you get it, too, when you've shown such lazyness so far and I can have so much fun with you.

>>8288132
>>8288233
>>8289671
desu I want to see a Chemist v Astronomer v Geologist fight

>>8289900
Fucking mechanical engineers, i knew they'd go crazy some day

>>8290120
>I already did
Well, your posts so far were nothing but namecalling. I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish. I read all your posts I am aware of and most of them are accusing me of trolling. Thats not a debate I really deem productive.
so again
Please tell me how I'm wrong. If you look at the elements, you can argue that everything is the same by your logic.

>>8290140
>I read all your posts
Should've read the prior discussion, too.

>Please tell me how I'm wrong.
Already told you I wont. Because seeing this:
>If you look at the elements, you can argue that everything is the same by your logic.
tells me you're having blinders on, are completely in a tunnel and therefore can't see context. Which btw is a stupid state to enter an ongoing discussion.

>>8290154
>Already told you I wont
because you cant, it seems

>tells me you're having blinders on, are completely in a tunnel and therefore can't see context
Why are you saying this. Is there something before this post >>8288426 that really matters for the context of your post?

>>8290170
>Is there something before this post >>8288426 that really matters for the context of your post?
yes

>>8287984
The Martians are building a wall to make Mars great again.

>>8290178
If it makes your statement less meaningless, then bring it baby

>>8290184
Instead of trying to get spoonfed when I already told you I wont a more productive use of your time would be to use your eyes and brain to actually read.

>>8290197
>more vague references to his point that is somewhere hidden in this thread
yeah, nice dodging. I know the whole thread, btw. But obviously I cant know, what posts are from you. Just defend your shit right now without being a difficult cunt that avoids the argument

>>8287984
A whole lot of nothing.

distance

>>8287984
1. Money to fund a project to get there
2. unknown everything about the planet
3. no reason as of yet to go there
4. NASA has been in charge of going there and has done literally fuck all to try

>>8288112
>we figure out if life started there or not.

Not that I hate this theory or anything but if life did start on mars, why the ever loving fuck would all tech have been abandoned? If they had the ability to predict a demise of a planet and resources to travel to another why the sweet fuck would no one have left any kind of sign?

>>8290503
next time, just keep your two cents
every point you made is wrong

>>8290509
you are a stupid fuck

its in reference to panspermia
simple single celled life/bacteria made the trip from mars to earth on ejected debris/asteroids which then flourished on earth. this is whats meant by life could have started on mars. it doesnt mean a civilization thrived on mars and then died out leaving no technology behind. its like you were born yesterday you dumbass.

>>8290515
>single celled life/bacteria made the trip from mars to earth on ejected debris/asteroids which then flourished on earth
>>>/x/

>>8289758
>If we can already commercially mine on mars,
wait we can?

>>8290842
>>8290842
no. i mean that when we do, it could be assumed that we could process the ore.

>>8290211
>I know the whole thread
You obviously don't.

It's a cold, barren wasteland with a very thin atmosphere, so no protection from space.

It'd be better to spend money on something else than to waste it going there.

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>>8288275
>I said minerals not elements

>>8287984
distance
and a complete lack of economic feasability to go there with manned craft.

>>8289721
In this system? None.

That's why we should all stay right here where it's comfy.

>>8289769
LOL!

>>8287984
Air resistance is very annoying for firing rockets into space.