***Christian General Thread***

You should really rewrite that post

I didn't read past the first paragraph, but the first paragraph is a jumbled mess of words that make very little sense

>>36991529
My bad. I will rewrite it in the next thread. But while you're here feel free to ask questions and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

>>36991565
Sure
Do you believe in eternal damnation?
Do you believe that if you fuck up in this very flawed human life, you are fucked forever?

>>36991600
>Do you believe in eternal damnation?
Yes.

>Do you believe that if you fuck up in this very flawed human life, you are fucked forever?
Yeah.

>>36991633
What about Grace?

Don't you Christians have the concept of a forgiving God?

>>36991226
OP,are you Catholic,Protestant or Orthodox cristian ?

>>36991697
>What about Grace?
Yes, we do believe in that. In fact, we believe that we are saved solely by grace!

>Don't you Christians have the concept of a forgiving God?
Yes, or course but no one asks for forgiveness so why should he even save them? It is why Christ died, and if you only just believed in him, all your sins would have been paid for in christ's death on the cross.

>>36991704
I am a reformed Baptist.

>>36991697
he forgives if you regret what you did and start to change your ways

>>36991756
Actually, he forgives unconditionally due to the fact that we are all depraved and saves his elect.

>>36991742
interesting,I'm a catholic.

SAGE IN ALL FIELDS

peppermint

>>36991756
>>36991742
How can a "forgiving" God not forgive you if you screw up in this life?

He already knows what will happen in this highly flawed human life, so He just dooms us to eternity just for living "wrongly" in this very, very flawed world?

What about those who have no chance of salvation? Who were born in circumstances that simply do not allow your concept of salvation? Were they born just to live a few dozen years in a horrible world, only to then be damned for eternity?

You Christians have the concept of a personal God right, but your belief in eternal damnation is simply incompatible with an all-loving, all-good God.

>>36991809
Cool. If you have any questions feel free to ask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

>>36991226
so is this the imagery that christians want to see? images of dead women? no wonder god has already left the earth.

File: 09.jpg (157KB, 992x880px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 992x880px

HAHAHAHAHA NICE SPOOKS NERD

>>36991831
>How can a "forgiving" God not forgive you if you screw up in this life?
It's about justice. That man has sinned, and because of this, he has to receive the just punishment.

>He already knows what will happen in this highly flawed human life, so He just dooms us to eternity just for living "wrongly" in this very, very flawed world?
It's more about his decree and the purpose he had in creation.

>What about those who have no chance of salvation? Who were born in circumstances that simply do not allow your concept of salvation? Were they born just to live a few dozen years in a horrible world, only to then be damned for eternity?
Ok, to answer this question, read this: >>36730229

>You Christians have the concept of a personal God right, but your belief in eternal damnation is simply incompatible with an all-loving, all-good God.
Not really. People seem to forget that God isn't just a merciful God. He is also a just and holy God. For him to let sin slide would be to go against his justice. And if he can just go against his justice plan then does it even have a purpose? Everything that God does is in line with his nature and purpose, and nothing he does is unjust. He cannot even let the slightest of sin go unpunished!

>>36991892
>so is this the imagery that Christians want to see?
What do you mean?

>images of dead women?
Wah? What dead woman?

>no wonder God has already left the earth.
He'll be right back!

>>36991925
What on earth is a spook?

>>36991858
what do you think is the most difficult to explain to non-christians ?

>>36991992
>the just punishment
Does eternal damnation for someone who doesn't even know he sinned sound just?

At any rate, I can see from your post that there is no arguing with you (and with Christians in general). I'm out.

>>36992048
Good question. I think it is the question of free will. Why would God created people knowing where they would go? How about if someone has been living in the jungles of Africa, only has known pain in his whole life and never believe. Does he go to hell? I can give an answer, but I don't know if the non-Christians will like it. It's someone those things where there is an answer, but you might not like it. But then again the things of the flesh are only concerned with the things of the flesh whereas the spirit knows the truth and rejoices in it.

>>36992085
>Does eternal damnation for someone who doesn't even know he sinned sound just?
I can't say I know for sure. In the bible, it states that the more you know the more you will be held accountable for. I don't know the answer but what I do know is, is that I must spread the word so people can be saved. That being said I think there is more reason to believe that even he will enter into the fire. A good passage evidence for this would be the noahs ark. Where "everyone" one earth who didn't go into the ark IE Jesus, was swept by the wave despite age gender race or if they knew or not. But then again I might be over thinking it.

>At any rate, I can see from your post that there is no arguing with you (and with Christians in general). I'm out.
Sorry to see you leave. Also, why do you think I come off like this? I try my best to be polite. Anyways god bless you!

File: 2e66deb2892c891c4f70112962eebe944f465c7c05c5e0ce486ab6751d85fe2f.png (288KB, 2157x768px) Image search: [Google]

288KB, 2157x768px

>>36991226
>One enters into heaven through faith alone
lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L14UNjaZJm8

>>36991992
your image in the original post is clearly a dead woman. why do you normies want to see that kind of shit?

>>36992204
Yep, I've seen that video by bro. Dimond. try reading this: >>36748148

>>36992222
First off, nice digits!!!

Secondly, that girl in my op isn't dead, as far as I know. It was just a picture I saved and I don't like using the same pic in every thread so I posted this pic which I thought looked all nice and abstract.

>why do you normies want to see that kind of shit?
I am not a normie, I can bet you that!

>>36992267
I don't really browse 8ch. Also, I think here is just as good.

>>36991226
Is faith not death without works, anon?
James 2:17

>>36992306
Thanks for that. Read this: >>36748148 I think it should answer your response.

>>36992191
You don't come off as rude or anything, just firmly set in your beliefs, as much as I am. So there is no point in this discussion

But don't worry. What I believe in includes your own beliefs in a way, so there is no need for me to "save" you. I was just arguing specifics.

Have a good day anon

>>36992338
>Have a good day anon
Thank you, and have a blessed day!

>>36992107
yup,they always try to use the omnipotence argument to disprove it

File: biblegateway.png (86KB, 1264x469px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 1264x469px

>>36992286
>try reading this: >>36748148
I know those verses very well and your mental gymnastics too. You see, the issue is that you are confusing the works of the law which are those of the Mosaic Law, not those of the Law of Christ.
>Romans 3
Lookie here, a chapter earlier:
He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. (Romans 2:6-7)

It is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. (Romans 2:13)

>James 2
Here's what Scripture teaches about Abraham's justification:

Without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. (Hebrews 11:6)

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was to go. (Hebrews 11:8)

Was Abraham's faith in Genesis 15 enough for his salvation? No, because though he was justified by faith, he was not also justified by works; that second and completing justification happened in Genesis 22. Saint James explains:

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness"; and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:21-24)

>>36991742
>being a Burptist
Anons, if you are interested in learning about Christianity, go visit the /christian/ board on 8ch where there are many Apostolic Christians (Catholic & Orthodox). Don't fall for OP's Walmart "Christianity" that is theologically bankrupt.

>>36991742
>Reformed Baptist
You sir have no authority to answer any questions about Christianity.

>>36992371
That's not the argument I use.

>>36992389
That's where you're the wrong kiddo. We, in fact, have the highest view of scripture. See sola scriptura and tota Scriptura. As well as the fact that we give all the power and glory to God and not a man!

File: Scripture Alone.png (819KB, 1203x2281px) Image search: [Google]

819KB, 1203x2281px

>>36992416
>See sola scriptura
Unbiblical. You are part of a cult-like book club which abuses Scripture and has absolutely nothing in common with the Early Church whose members were illiterate and didn't carry Bibles around.

You should also thank the Catholic Church for giving you the Bible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Christian_biblical_canon

>>36992378
>I know those verses very well and your mental gymnastics too. You see, the issue is that you are confusing the works of the law which are those of the Mosaic Law, not those of the Law of Christ.
I would say that this it'self is mental gymnastics. You are basically saying that by the death of Christ we have been freed and put out of the shackles of slavery by not having to keep the OT law, and for what purpose? Just to follow a whole new set of laws. This makes the whole doing away with the law things pointless and brings us right back into OT days where we need to do works in order to gain eternal life.

If the verse were talking about works of the law, then it would have been called works of the law. See Romans 3:20, Romans 3:28, Galatians 2:16.

It's clear here that it is not talking about OT laws but rather works in general.

Cont.

>>36991992
>God creates people with no chance to be saved
>Damns them to hell for all eternity to suffer in fire and brimstone

There is literally no way to justify this as the actions of a right and holy god. Calling whoever created this system a psychopath is generous.

File: 1494642662127.jpg (145KB, 850x850px) Image search: [Google]

145KB, 850x850px

is it bad that I want to beat a little girl to death then fuck her body?
ive been having an urge to do this for about two weeks and I almost acted on it 2 days ago

>>36992378
>(Romans 2:6-7) (Romans 2:13)
Yes, we believe in the importance of works because they fulfil faith by showing evidence of it and a tree that doesn't bear fruit will be cut off. I believe that but it is the faith that we have which, causes us to do good works.

>Here's what Scripture teaches about Abraham's justification:
Yes, let's look into Abraham.

>(Hebrews 11:6) (Hebrews 11:8)
I agree, Sola Fide!

>Was Abraham's faith in Genesis 15 enough for his salvation?
Yes, later on, it was the justification before man that was being talked about. He was already counted as righteous in Genesis 15 but later on was justified before man. I can give evidence for this.

>(James 2:21-24)
As stated earlier, it was justification before man. God already knew he was made righteous, but now it was being revealed to man his justification. But Abraham, in fact, disproves you. Let's look deeper.

>If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Romans 4:2-3

If Abraham did indeed become right by his works, then he has something to boast about but in the reformed way of thinking there is no space to boast because we are justified by faith alone and our works are not our own but rather the spirit of God working within us.

>/christian/ board on 8ch
I don't really browse 8ch. Also, I think here is just as good.

>>36992593
Yes, that is a problem. I think you should try praying and go see a therapist. If you felt as though you was about to do it then immediate medical attention is needed.

File: Faith & Works.png (144KB, 674x514px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 674x514px

>>36992509
>and for what purpose? Just to follow a whole new set of laws.
If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

Do you love Christ?

>This makes the whole doing away with the law things pointless and brings us right back into OT days where we need to do works in order to gain eternal life.
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? . . faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (James 2:14,17)

He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. (Romans 2:6-7)

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (Philippians 2:12)

There is absolutely no way around this.

>See Romans 3:20, Romans 3:28
Read chapter 2.
>Galatians 2:16
Saint Paul is referring to the "law of Christ" in Gal. 6:2, not "works of the law" in Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16; 3:2,5,10; and Eph. 2:8-9. The "law of Christ" is faith in Christ and works based on grace (God owes us nothing) and "works of the law" mean no faith in Christ, and legal works based on debt (God owes us something).

File: Saint James.jpg (588KB, 1280x1762px) Image search: [Google]

588KB, 1280x1762px

>>36992683
Saint James did not write "false faith by itself if it has no works, is dead" because that would make absolutely no sense. He simply wrote "faith by itself if it has no works, is dead". A simple look at the original greek flushes your heresy down the toilet. The greek word "pistis" is the word translated as "faith" which he used in James 2:17,26 and "pisteos" also meaning "faith" in verse 24. The word "pistis" is also found in Saint Paul's letter to the Ephesians chapter 2 verse 5: "one Lord, one faith, one baptism". There is absolutely no ambiguity; your mental gymnastics are futile.

>I agree
No you don't because you also believe in eternal security. Same book:

We must pay the closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. For if the message declared by angels was valid and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? (Hebrews 2:1-3)

>Sola Fide
Those verses don't speak of this heresy.

>Yes, later on, it was the justification before man that was being talked about. He was already counted as righteous in Genesis 15 but later on was justified before man. I can give evidence for this.
>God already knew he was made righteous, but now it was being revealed to man his justification.
No. The greek word "orate" which is translated as "You see" means "perceive/discern", "see with the mind", i.e. understand.

It is in the present indicative tense, the 2nd person plural of the verb "orao", "to perceive/to discern/to experience", i.e. understand.

"orate" is translated in other verses as "See that/Watch out/Take heed/Beware".

What Saint James is basically saying is:
"Abraham's faith in Genesis 15 was followed by his works in Genesis 22 which completed his justification. You now understand that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

He even calls you foolish in verse 20 for not understanding how simple this is.

>>36991226
Is hentai a sin since they're 2D and not real girls?

I was always wondering. What is the point of craving for heaven when it's not actually you who enters it? You who sacrifice so much pleasures, you who try to self improve to please god in order to ensure that your soul will end up in gods presence. Your soul unthinking primitive part of you which's only purpose in life is to satisfy it's hunger to spend eternity in gods presence? How could it suffer without consciousness? If it has consciousness it's not me so why should I even care?

>>36992593
>is it bad
You know the answer.

>>36992711
>If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
Descriptive verse of what a truly elect member of the body of Christ will be like. We do our good works because we love God and not because of obligation. In fact, a Christian could go out on a killing spree and still gain heaven but do you know why we don't? It's because we are overcome with the love of God and are convicted of our sins.

>(James 2:14,17)
In the verse after it says "I will show you my faith by my works" implying that the works we do are as a result of our faith! Still faith alone.

>(Romans 2:6-7)
Like I said earlier we believe in the importance of works because they fulfil faith by showing evidence of it and a tree that doesn't bear fruit will be cut off. I believe that but it is the faith that we have which, causes us to do good works.

>(Philippians 2:12)
Thanks for bringing up that verse because in the next verse it says...

>for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:13

So there is no room for boasting because the works we do are not our own but God working within us.

>Saint Paul is referring to the "law of Christ" in Gal. 6:2, not "works of the law."

Ever heard od total depravity?

>All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
Isaiah 64:6

File: 1472816722547.png (288KB, 1067x606px) Image search: [Google]

288KB, 1067x606px

>>36992981
>Descriptive verse
It means exactly what it says.
>We do our good works because we love God and not because of obligation.
Read John 15:1-10, this passage explains that if we do not bear fruit (good works) we are cut off and put with the unfaithful as Christ teaches in Luke 12:42-46.
>a Christian could go out on a killing spree and still gain heaven
Not every one who says to me "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)
>Still faith alone.
No, Saint James explicitly addressed your heresy 2000 years ago by writing verse 24.
>we believe in the importance of works because they fulfil faith
Justification.
>Philippians 2:13
It does not mean what you think it means.
>Isaiah 64:6
How does this address what I said? Why do you protties keep quoting this passage thinking it's a good argument?

Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7)

>>36992869
>Saint James did not write "false faith by itself if it has no works, is dead" because that would make absolutely no sense.
A common argument by Catholics, but that's what the verse says

>What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
James 2:14 ESV translation

Here it even calls it "that" faith meaning there are two different types of faith false faith, which does not bring forth fruits as well as true faith, which brings forth fruits and grows like a mustard seed.

>pistis
I'm not too good on Greek, but from what I've read in Meyer's NT Commentary, it seems as though the man never had faith in the first place that's why his works weren't counted.

>Abraham's faith in Genesis 15 was followed by his works in Genesis 22 which completed his justification. You now understand that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
Yes, and God saw that work he did, as well as Isaac, who was being sacrificed, saw the revealing of his works and so he was counted as righteous before man.

>He even calls you foolish in verse 20 for not understanding how simple this is.
If you don't bear fruit and think you have "true" faith then yeah, you are foolish!

File: quote-those-who-are-seeking-the-true-religion-will-never-find-it-outside-the-catholic-church-alphonsus-liguori-77-74-31.jpg (62KB, 850x400px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 850x400px

>>36993435
>but that's what the verse says
I explained to you in details what it says.
>Here it even calls it "that" faith meaning there are two different types of faith false faith
No.

The original greek reads: "mi dinatai i pistis sosai afton?"

Translation: "not is able the faith to save him?"

Nice try, you might convince protties who think Christ wrote the KJV with this though.

>the man never had faith in the first place
The parable of the faithful servant is very important:

The Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing. Truly, I tell you, he will set him over all his possessions. But if that servant says to himself, "My master is delayed in coming", and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful." (Luke 12:42-46)

The greek word translated as "faithful" is "pistos" and it literally means both believing and faithful.

The second servant had faith; which is why he said to himself "My master is delayed in coming" (Luke 12:45). He clearly believed/acknowledged his master (faith), yet he did not keep His commandments (works) which made his faith useless because without works it is dead as explained in James 2:26 and so though he had faith, he will suffer the same punishment as the unfaithful.

When your faith is dead you belong with the unfaithful, that is the lesson taught by Christ in Luke 12:42-46.

File: 2850563d556f30fa70e2685345916d7c27e09097e3fbfb6c0bdfd8220c26e2e2.jpg (72KB, 460x550px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 460x550px

>>36993435
>Yes
Because justification is an ongoing process. Saying some magic words and then "going out on a killing spree" will not get you to heaven, it will lead you to Hell and it doesn't matter if Dr. Luther claimed otherwise, he's in the pit of Hell himself right now.
>If you don't bear fruit and think you have "true" faith then yeah, you are foolish!
He is calling foolish he who claims that "faith apart from works is useful". Don't twist his words.

>>36992524
>There is literally no way to justify this as the actions of a right and holy God.
There is. He created things for his purpose and his purpose only. He has the right, and when you actually look into it, you'll find out that nothing that was done there was in fact unjust. In fact, we should be happy that God even gives us the chance to come to him since we should have been put into the fires of hell as soon as Adam and Eve ate the apple. But due to god's love for us, he gives you an opportunity at life and so you are blessed even to be given a temporary life.

>>36992901
Yes, lust is lust even is it is towards a 2d creature.

File: Catholic Theism.jpg (458KB, 994x1600px) Image search: [Google]

458KB, 994x1600px

>>36992524
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOMofDqTa4A

>>36992924
>What is the point of craving for heaven when it's not actually you who enters it?
Because you don't wanna go hell and it is actually you who will be in heaven.

>Your soul unthinking primitive part of you
Not the view of Christianity

>How could it suffer without consciousness?
The soul is conscious, and perhaps they are the same thing.

>If it has consciousness it's not me so why should I even care?
That consciousness is you though.

>>36994796
When you ask some theologians about unborn children and afterlife they start to talk about soul being something different than your consciousness personality. Same goes with people who gone mad because of medical condition.
"The Sadducees and the Resurrection" sort of support this. It hints that you won't care about what happen during your life.
Same with lazarus and rich folk. Imagine you are in heaven knowing that some of your friends are frying in hell. Anyone would feel bad about that. But nope, your soul in its angelic form won't.
So I assume that your consciousness cases to be after death. Or you get high on some kind of heavenly drug which wipes out any of your concerns about well-being of others which I thought was the basic trait of a human being worth of eden.
Does not like paradise to me. But this is just my narrative.

File: satan-defeated.jpg (33KB, 325x400px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 325x400px

What has satan done to be casted out of heaven?

>>36995687
He made himself to be greater than god and went against his creator. His pride and arrogance are what made him fall.

>>36995381
>When you ask some theologians about unborn children and afterlife they start to talk about soul being something different than your consciousness personality
Really? I consider them the same thing, but once in church, we were told that humans are made up of the body spirit and soul.

>Same goes with people who gone mad because of medical condition.
They still have souls/consciousness but its 's affected by the state of the mind.

>Imagine you are in heaven knowing that some of your friends are frying in hell. Anyone would feel bad about that. But nope, your soul in its angelic form won't.
Actually, a better understanding would be that once he was in the bosom of Abraham, he understood Gods purpose and understood his justice and so because of that, he was free from his human fleshy mind, which is only concerned with things regarding it'self, he understood that all get what they deserve. You reap what you sow!

>So I assume that your consciousness cases to be after death.
Not really. If you read revelations 6:10-11 you will see that the heavenly bodies are conscious of what is happening in the world.