***Christian General Thread*** Honestly brutal edition

>>36724456
The bible and all of it's stories were written by unconfirmed authors during a time when criminal justice was effectively impossible to enforce outside of any immediate major city, so to accommodate this issue they warned everyone if they did bad things they'd spend the rest of their lives suffering while the people who did good things get to go to a big party.

If you aren't a monk or some other religion that fucks off from civilization to practice their ways in peace, your religion is literal bullshit tyranny in the form of an outdated criminal justice system.

Even the monks are probably chasing bullshit, but at least they're not cramming it down your throat in the process.

>>36724456
Inb4 405

>>36724591
>The Bible and all of its stories were written by unconfirmed authors.
Yeah, they're unconfirmed, but we have very good evidence to assume that they were in fact written bu Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. This is evident by the fact that early church fathers quoted from the NT and even called it scripture and they most likely knew who it was written by. Also, we have Pauls letter, 1Corinthians, which is dated to the year 50, the time when he was alive, which gives us hope that it was in fact written by Paul himself.

>during a time when criminal justice was effectively impossible to enforce outside of any immediate major city
This isn't even a point. There were civilisations that predated Jews, e.g., the Sumerians, who were a middle eastern culture that in fact created one of the first complex civilisations ever created. Also, the Bible has helped create some of the forms of law we have now as well as Western ideas of morality, which I can go into more depth if you wish I do.

>so to accommodate this issue they warned everyone if they did bad things they'd spend the rest of their lives suffering while the people who did good things get to go to a big party.
Again false. In fact, a lot of Jews didn't believe in an after life. In the Bible, there are two distinct groups know as the Pharisees and Sadducees. The Pharisees believe that after they had died they will be resurrected that was why they were "fair you see" and the Sadducees believed that after they had died that was it that was why they were "sad you see." :^)

>Even the monks are probably chasing bullshit, but at least they're not cramming it down your throat in the process.
Well, if you believed in a hell and knew people were going there is they didn't believe wouldn't you try to save them? Also, we don't throw it down your throats because we believe that we do not have the power to bring you to christ, the only God has that power, and so we have been commanded by God himself to preach but in love.

>go to private Christian school for five years
>learned in great depth about Christianity, the Bible, missions trips, Jesus, sin, etc.
>"accepted jesus" and was "born again" for some time
>few years go by
>always had my doubts because Christianity doesn't make sense at all in some areas, like Adam and Eve, miracles, etc.
>question how some things flat out make no sense at all
>"God works in mysterious ways" was all they'd say
>begin to think it's all bullshit
>principle of the school sees this
>confiscates my backpack
>backpack had KoRn CDs in them
>principle called it "music for sinners"
>explained I just like the music not the lyrics (lying obviously; I was 15 and angsty)
>says I'm a bad influence on people for questioning the Bible even though for the most part I blindly followed and was religious
>he wasn't having any of it
>get kicked out for listening to KoRn
I'm still friends with kids that went there all these years later. The guy who ran the school was an asshole. Not religious anymore but not because of what happened.

Figured since this was Christian related I'd post it here.

>>36724633
Follow the "cont of" and you'l see that none of my the threads have been 404'd.

>honestly brutal edition
Research tells us that Jesus was most likely a mason with a few screws loose who was rallied around by enemies of the state (who you now call apostles) because he promised a new kingdom.
If there is a God he doesn't care about you, humanity, or planet earth. Christianity is only so big because most people don't want to accept that we are insignificant animals with no purpose and no reason to hope for a better afterlife.
While I'm talking about the afterlife, how does that make any sense to you? Humans need to feel like they have a purpose in order to feel happy. If all we do in heaven is sit around in heaven singing about how great God is, why would we find that fulfilling? Do you really want to spend an eternity in "heaven" with no purpose, nothing to do, separated from your loved ones (because they didn't make the cut)?
The Christian heaven is actually a hell. A hell that i find more depraved than our current existence because at least here we have freedom and the choice to commit suicide when you're done with life.

Now stop making these threads

>>36724896
>Figured since this was Christian related I'd post it here.
You're free to do so and thanks for coming in. It seems like you have had similar questions I had back in my early teens. I just wanna let you know that you are free to ask me anything you want I I will try my best to answer as truthfully as I can.

>>36724456
>is blood cleansed us of sin and to be cleansed of your sins you first must believe and Christ will do the rest
This is why western society is done and bishops or whatever rape little boys. Jk, do whatever you want as long as you believe in god.

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>>36724456
Get the fuck off my board, the last thing i wanna see swarm this place are you cretins.
What are you?
I bet my house you are one of those american alcohoolics that found jesus and literally cant talk about anything else.

Transhumanist Christians are pretty cool IMO

>>36724930
>Research tells us
What research. Remember this thread is open to discussions.

>If there is a God he doesn't care about you, humanity
Don't make assumptions about God, his nature and purpose of creation.

>Christianity is only so big because most people don't want to accept that we are insignificant animals with no purpose and no reason to hope for a better afterlife.
Perhaps some do feel that way, but then again we have Christ that gives us purpose because even if you do accept that life is meaningless, you have to admit that nothing we do matters, in the grand scheme of things, unless God exists.

>Why would we find that fulfilling?
Good question. To put this is perspective think it this way. I don't know you, but you might have had a similar experience but "have you ever been in love?" The feeling is intense, and out of your love, you just wanna make the other person happy. By you doing good works for them in love that in turns make you happy and fall deeper in love with him. Now that is an earthly love it makes us do things we wouldn't normally do. In heaven, we will love God even more and be fulfilled that we are making our father in heaven happy.

>separated from your loved ones
This is where I get brutal, relative to a non-believer. If you love even your mother more than God, you cannot enter into heaven. When we enter heaven yeah we might be separated, but it will not matter because now we have the greatest gift of all, Christ! Everyone that enters hell went in by their own will, and so the blame will be on them. But in the end, now that we are experiencing the full love of god in all hit glory, all other forms of pleasure and love will pale in comparison, including the love we had for out mother, brothers and sisters.

>>36724872
>Yeah, they're unconfirmed, but we have very good evidence to assume that they were in fact written bu Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
They may have been written by the for gospel writers, but as far as I have researched, Mathew Mark and Luke were all based off some mystery source called Q, decades after Jesus' death. What if Q is the oral tradition of 11 apostles saddened by the death of their friend and struggling to retain meaning in their lives? Christianity can't stand if the gospels aren't 100% vallid.

>>36724976
Thanks, my guy!

>>36725067
lol, close. I'm just an 18 year old trying to spread the good news.

>>36725092
Literally who?

>>36725236
>Literally who?
Christians who think it's their duty to raise the dead and create Heaven through science, instead of hoping for Jesus to randomly come back one day

>>36724456
Unless you can find me a Bible verse that explicitly says you can not beat off I'm going to keep doing it.
It's not in the ten commandments, anyways

>>36725208
>Q
Yeah, Q is a hypothetical gospel which scholars assume that was where Mark based his source from but it's far too early to say anything about Q since we know little to nothing about it. But even if the gospels were written a couple of decades after the death of Christ, this is still within the living time of the Apostles. 1Corinthians also, which is dated quite early, gives us an insight to how it was preached during the early 1st century giving us more hope and trust in the Bible message.

>Christianity can't stand if the gospels aren't 100% valid.
I think we're now running into radical scepticism. There is a lot of evidence that the gospel, even if they were changed. They were most likely still similar. When scholars argue about is the Bible really said this or that they are more dealing with details, e.g., some early manuscripts say Jesus others say Christ; both have the same meaning but would count as a textual variant despite meaning the same thing.

One notable scholar like Bart Ehrman, despite criticism the authenticity of the NT would still admit that even if we had the early Bible chances are it would say the same ting as is does now.

The trinity is the ideological flaw in Christianity.
That's why islam is better.
Defend trinity though

>>36725401
The story from the OT that people think is about masturbation is more likely not about that.

A guy was commanded to have sex with his dead brother's wife to carry on his brother's lineage since the children would be considered to be from the dead brother. Instead the guy has sex with her, and pulls out so he doesn't get her pregnant. He probably did this to keep more of the inheritance for himself. So it's more likely about not having children when commanded, or valuing money over life.

Masturbation still isn't always a good thing, it can make you think of women as nothing more than sex objects, make you preoccupied with pleasuring yourself when you don't need to, etc. but it's still better than potentially spreading diseases, leaving women pregnant with no father around, raping, paying people who force women into prostitution, etc.

>>36725308
Ah, yes I have heard of them and do believe they're "kinda" onto something.

>>36725401
>your religion is literal bullshit tyranny in the form of an outdated criminal justice system.
>1 John 2:16

This talks about anything that is done to please yourself and not God is sinful. Also in the OT, it reads.

>I have chosen the way of faithfulness; I have set my heart on your laws.
Psalm 119:30

It will be very odd for one who loves God and his law later on then to seek pleasures of the flesh and not God and god's alone.

>>36725401

ehh i aint no OP but many, many Christians don't have any problems with jacking off.

They say you should try resist the natural urge, because that makes you stronger as a person. That doesn't need to be proved by any verses

>>36725401
>>36725658
Sorry green texted the wrong thing

>For everything in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life comes not from the Father but from the world.
1 John 2:16

What are your thoughts on gnosticism?
For me, it really falls in line with what I take away from christianity, and feels like an expansion to it, but when i bring it up around so called 'christians,' they don't give me a chance to explain and think that i'm some satan worshipper for believing in it.
So, what do you/other christbots think of gnosticism?
Expansion on chistianity, satanic ramblings, an entirely different religion, or something else?

How can we have free will if god is omnipotent

>>36725496
>Defend Trinity though
Ok, I'll start this off the same way I always start of when talking about God. Don't make assumptions about God, his nature and plan. Yes, the trinity is something unique, but despite this, it is a truth found in scripture that we must believe after it has been revealed to us. The Trinity should not give us doubt but rather an insight into the complexity of God where he is one being who has three distinct persons. Despite him having three distinct persons in the one being that is God they are all in essence one. We, a single person sharing one being but we must understand that God is more complex than we are; that is why in the OT notes doing things and refers to himself as "we" in a singular context.

Feel free to ask more if you wish.

>trap threads get told to go to /lgbt/ even though you can't make trap threads on /lgbt/

>christian threads don't get told to go to /pol/ or /his/

hmmm

>>36725196
>Don't make assumptions about God, his nature and purpose of creation.
That is literally what you and every Christian has ever done. All you are doing in this thread is making assumption about God.
> you have to admit that nothing we do matters, in the grand scheme of things, unless God exists.
Thats exactly what i mean, nothing matters.
>In heaven, we will love God even more and be fulfilled that we are making our father in heaven happy.
I can never love a God that is OK with sentencing people to hell. Even less so to a God who you believe will send people to hell for simply loving their mother more than him. If hell exists God is a sociopath who plays with his creation like a child burning ants under a magnifying glass. If hell doesn't exist then God is a lie.

>>36725849
Easy, omnipotence means all powerful and just because you're powerful does not mean that you can't create a being who has free will.

>>36725872
I do occasionally get told to go to /pol/ or /his/. :^)

>>36725507
Hey, thanks anon for helping. Sometimes these threads can feel like it's me against the world.

>>36724456
The only reason Christianity and Islam are so big are because they're religions for gentiles.

>>36725919
I was more concerned with the all knowing aspect of omnipotence. If god truly is all knowing then wouldn't that mean he'd know who goes to heaven/hell before they were even created.

>>36725658
Bruh, all of this shit was written by men who were no more holy than you are today, are you retarded? If the thing is god-breathed then why didn't they get the order of formation of the sun and Earth correct?

>>36725861
So jesus and mary were both god just roleplaying?

>>36725900
>That is literally what you and every Christian has ever done. All you are doing in this thread is making an assumption about God.
Yes but it's based on scripture. You might think that's silly but looking at the sky and imagining might seem just as weird to a third party viewer.

>Thats exactly what I mean, nothing matters.
Yeah, I know, but we don't use this as proof for his existence rather just for proof for his existence.

>I can never love a God that is OK with sentencing people to hell.
He doesn't. You send yourself to hell, and he's trying to help you.

>Even less so to a God who you believe will send people to hell for simply loving their mother more than him.
Think of it this way. If it's your birthday and you mother or father gives you a gift you are thankful for it and maybe even experience mass amounts of joy but never do you love the gift more than the person who gave you the gift. The same is for God yeah you can love your mother but who gave you your mother, who gave you your father and who even gave you the mind to experience things in this world. Surely we cannot love the gift more than the gift giver.

>>36725949
Maybe you're right. It's one of the reasons why it got so big.

>>36725977
Ah, yes that make more sense but still, even with intelligence, it doesn't negate free will. Me knowing something is going to happen doesn't mean that there is no free will but rather I just know what will come of the free will of the creature.

>>36726103
What? No. Mary is a human like all of us and needed to be saved by grace. Jesus was one of the persons of the trinity. Also, I'm aware that in the Quran it actually says that marry is a part of the trinity which no Christian believes in.

>>36726117
So god creates people knowing that they'll end up in hell?

>>36726117
The mental gymnastics of religionfags is fucking embarassing

>>36726171
then what is the holy spirit?
I always thought that was mary

>>36726070
>Bruh, all of this shit was written by men who were no more holy than you are today, are you retarded?
They were made holy by God.

> If the thing is God-breathed then why didn't they get the order of formation of the sun and Earth correct?
I believe it did.

>>36726184
Here comes the brutal part. Yes but all to save his people. God had two choices in this situation, either send all to hell since Adam and Eve sinned and needed to be punished or save some out of those who will be created. But the rabbit hole goes deeper, and I will be more than happy to answer further questions.

>>36726236
Heh? How so?

>>36726244
No, that is the third person of the Trinity. There is the father, son and holy spirit and they are all one essence and God.

>>36725801
I haven't studied too much on it, but I am open to looking into it. Got any web pages I can look at. I do know some, but I know so little that I feel too lacking in knowledge to speak on it.

>>36726184
Why do the police arrest serial-murderers and rapists sometimes while knowing that they might escape death penalty and do those crimes again?
Those cops are giving those criminals a chance. Same thing God does.

>>36726277
But what is the holy spirit?

>>36725496

Sounds like an argument for antitrinitarian Christianity.

Islam is deeply flawed. To anyone who wasn't raised with it, it should be apparent it's just a syncretic religion designed to unite the Arab tribes and impose their language/culture on conquered peoples. Christianity, Judaism, imagery from Semitic Paganism, five daily prayers borrowed from Zoroastrianism...

>>36725720
Hypothetically, what if Jesus beat off? Wouldn't that be pleasing God?

>>36726277
>I believe it did
Why would plants on the Earth form before the sun? Do you understand how space works? Things would be too frozen to form. Witnessed by the frozen tundra that is the South pole or Pluto's atmosphere.

>>36726337
>But what is the holy spirit?
The Holy Spirit, who is the third person of the Trinity, is the one who raised Christ from the dead. He is the one who enters into people and motivates them to do good works for the love of god. He convicts us of ou sins and causes us to turn to God. The Holy Spirit is essentially God, and if he is in you, then you will be raised up as Christ was on the third day when judgement day comes.

>>36726378
Haha, good one. I have never heard this one before. No, that would still be pleasing the flesh and would not have been done in love. Christ did not come to this earth to be served or please himself but to serve others and die for our sins. Also, masturbation comes from lust and lust is a sin in Christianity which God cannot do.

>>36726312
Yeah, here's some resources you can look into
http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm
http://gnosis.org/welcome.html
And I recommend that you read the apocryphon of John, its the first thing i read pertaining to gnostisicm and really made me think
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html

>>36726521
Arigatou anon!

>>36726277
Why would he have to send everyone to hell based on the choices of Adam and Eve?

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>>36725801
Gnosticism is heretical, it completely takes away from the point of the Gospel and adds paganism. It's essentially a new-age-hippie movement from the 2nd century.

>>36726548
Well, everyone wouldn't have even been born because Adam and eve would have been in hell for their sins and never would have had a chance to have children.

>>36726548
it's not that he's sending you to hell, it's that you can't enter his kingdom if you're sinful.

>>36726511
I'm sorry but trinity still doesn't make sense although I can see how it makes sense to you

>>36726651
anon... that art is beautiful... I'm speechless

>>36726739
>I'm sorry but trinity still doesn't make sense
Why so?

listen to what you are saying

you are trying to talk about reality as if its a story book. nothing you say can or ever will be provable by the scientific method and is therefor most probably not true, given the amount of possible outcomes.

stop being totally blind to reality and stop reading books from thousands of years ago as if they would know any more about life than we do today.

religion is the ultimate self inflicted beta experience

>>36726445
I'll be honest with you. I'm not too sure, but the best thing I have found so far is this comment from this web page. I do not claim that I wrote it just that I am quoting them.
>Revelation 22:5 Mentions that God is the source of light in heaven:

>There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light.
This indicates that it is possible for God himself to be a source of light. When God said "Let there be light" in Genesis 1:3, he doesn't specify a light source, but it is very possible that he himself was that source.

>Additionally, plants do not specifically need light from the sun in order to survive, just the correct wavelengths from any source (hence why plants can be grown in man-made lighting conditions). The initial light that God created in 1:3 could very well have contained the correct wavelength make up for their survival.

I will do extra research on this point and see if I can come up with a better response to a later thread.

>>36726793
Thanks for coming into this thread. If there are any questions, you will like to be answered then feel free to ask.

>>36726676
Then I guess my real question is how can a "loving" god create something just to have it suffer eternally. whether he's sending them there or not, he's creating something only for it to suffer for eternity.

>>36726831
we both have questions, it is only you and your book that foolishly claim to have answers

Why did God make us virgin losers?

>>36726757

Im not the original poster, but i have the same opinion. It feels so anthropomorphic, so "made up". 3 persons in 1? really? Is that the best you can come up with to explain the difference between Father and Christ.

Lets be honest, The Holy Spirit is a completely unnecessary idea. If Jesus really wanted to, he would easily said God it is instead of "The Holy Spirit"

It was probably made up because 3 is a much nicer number to get around with rather than: Father and Jesus, 2 in 1 deity.

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>>36726745
save it, its all yours my friend ;)

>>36726739
watch this, it should answer your questions
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TWpnOJV09MuEAwbbQNCS6Qf

>>36726856
he gave them free will and they chose to go to hell

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>>36726856

Hell is a metaphor for being separate from God. No one is actually going to be tortured forever. Most of what people profess to know about Satan and Hell is from literature like Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno, not the Bible.

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>>36727067
yeah because lake of fire isn't eternal torture

hell is real anon

>>36726794
So you're saying when our sun dies, if we're still around, god will be a light source so the humans that still live won't die or will they die?

>>36726856
Becuase the sins you do, which are against an eternal god, deserves an eternal punishment. Hell, firstly was created for the devil and his angels but after man sinned he was also cast down to there.

But what you must understand about hell is that it is where god isn't. This means it is a place where you are absolutely separate from god. In this world the reason why

>>36726934
That' more because of you, but don't be attached to worldly things and worry about things in this world. The next world is our goal.

>>36727171
I doubt we will even live to see that age.

>>36727244
Oh, right, you think Jesus is coming back even though most of the texts say his coming not his return. Meaning he'll come at the end of time, that means whenever the universe falls prey to the Big Crunch

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>>36727171
1.) It's not necessary to take the creation in Genesis literally to receive salvation, theologians back in the first centuries knew this and not all of them (St. Augustine in particular) viewed it as an allegory or metaphor.

2.) The hour is already late, it probably won't be 4 billion years before Christ's return

>>36727359
If you say so, you delusional fuck

>>36726942
>Im not the original poster, but I have the same opinion. It feels so anthropomorphic, so "made up". 3 persons in 1? really? Is that the best you can come up with to explain the difference between Father and Christ.
I, in fact, see it as proof. If you were going to make up a new religion and God. Then you would most likely make it to be something that makes sense to you and understandable to the human mind. Ancient eastern religions had multiple gods. Middle Eastern religions such as Zoroastrian and Islam make it one unitarian god. These are all things that are comprehensible to God. Who would make up the trinity? It doesn't make sense. And when people attack it and say things like it's too complex it just reassures me that it is unique and from God. Unique in that there is nothing else in nature that you can compare it to. At All!

>Lets be honest, The Holy Spirit is a completely unnecessary idea.
I don't think so. Each person of the trinity as a distinct task. The father who is the leader of the god head has a "son" who was sent to save people from their sins, and the holy spirit is the one who pushes people and gives them the power to do good works. It all works together in order to bring about the salvation of God's people.

>>36727401
Oi, none of that!

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>>36727401
2,100,000,000 people are Christians, the majority of the rest of humanity belong to other religions

you're the delusional one

>>36727328
>Meaning he'll come at the end of time, that means whenever the universe falls prey to the Big Crunch.
No, the text does not say that. He will be returning on judgement day and that will be way sooner than when the big crunch happens. Also, it says that on the day of judgement there will still be jews existing and as we see now they do in fact exist. I mean, judgement day can happen anytime now and so we should always be on guard.

>>36727464
That's the beauty of logic, just because 2 billion+ people believe it doesn't mean it's true, you fucking idiot

>>36727471
The text doesn't say a return will happen, just a coming, it never implies Jesus was ever on Earth

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Has anyone made the jump from joining a church due to:
>Missing going to church as a kid, especially on Holidays
>Liking the people at church and sense of community
>Agreeing with the various morals/rules for logical reasons

To having genuine faith? How?

What is with all the Christian posts on r9k recently? Christianity is the last thing us robots need. All our lives we've been treated like shit, not taken seriously, beta, quiet and unassuming, etc. The last thing I wanna do is turn the other cheek to Chad, or be a "nice guy" cuck to treat Stacey with humility and respect. When you can't objectively prove religion, believing it is a choice, an existentialist philosophy, and Christianity is the most life-denying form of existentialism there is. Us robots are better off taking things into our own hands and working to improve our lives rather than slaving away for hope of an afterlife.

>>36727191
>>36726856
Cont

The reason why we can experience joy in this world, laugh with our friends, rest and even scratch an itch is because of the grace of God. Now in hell, there is gonna be none of that. One might even be able to infer that perhaps in hell one can't even breath because even that if a good feeling although I could be wrong. Now in heaven, you will only experience the grace of God and love of God, and you will be internal bliss. The thing about hell is if you sin then that means you do not love God and so why would God put you in a place you don't wanna be in IE with God, and so you decide to God hell because of your own doings and not because of God.

also see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOMofDqTa4A&t=11s

My earlier response was much better than this and I don't know why it didn't fully write out my entire post.

>>36727674
The turn the other cheek verse is easily one of the most misunderstood verses in all of Christianity and it doesn't mean what you just said.

>>36727674

>Old churches are cozy AF
>Gradually improves your social skills: you start out shaking hands and introducing yourself to people after the service, maybe move into the 20-somethings group or go on a retreat
>Lots of networking/hiring goes out at churches. Handy for when you want to move out of NEETdom.
>Source of pure QTs to marry
>You probably don't have anything better to do on Sunday

>>36727674
To add to this, the "meek" will NEVER "inherit the earth", robots, confident socialites inherit the world and always have. As much of a meme this is, it's much better to live for yourself, eat right, practice speech and exercise, etc, than to fall back on religion. Keep your heads up my dudes

>>36727614
>it never implies Jesus was ever on Earth
It implies that you have read the gospel and knew the context. Christ has already been on earth and said he would be returning and so when revelation talks about him coming you should know from context that it is talking about the second coming.

>Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
Revelation 1:7

Talking about how previously they treated christ badly and now he's back in all his glory. Amen!

>>36727674
Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

>>36727674
that's right. That's why you should accept islam because islam condemns all of what has made robots outcasts

>>36727832
In Islam, you aren't even allowed to look at a woman in they eye or gaze up. You're not allowed to have girlfriends and can only have arranged marriages. That's how Muhammed did it with all his 11 wives, which is more than the Quran allows for a man. So yeah, who's really beta here?

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>>36727831
Amen! Chritiano!

>>36727815
No, it doesn't. There are other words they could use to make it clear, instead they say coming like he never came in the first place. Like they did it on purpose.

>>36725436
>far too early to say anything about Q
Too much time has gone by and no new evidence will come out. We will never know for sure about Q. But for my money the disciples had 30 years to develop their fringe beliefs into a strong oral tradition and several manuscripts that the gospels grew out of. That doesn't make a very convincing proof of Jesus miracles, let alone his resurection.

Bear in mind that after Jesus' death the disciples had spent more than three years abandoning their livelihoods to follow Jesus. Their reputations were in ruin in both Jewish and Roman circles and they thought they might be executed. It would be way easier to rationalize than to throw away everything important they worked for all of those years

>>36726117
You'll understand eventually anon. Nobody can think about God this much for long with out realizing how irrational it all is.

>>36727831
>He said blessed are the Cheesemakers
>What's so great about the Cheesemakers?

>>36725208
>Q
>Q continuum
coincidence?

I've honestly considered becoming a priest many times but there's still that part of me that wants to be a dad. I guess I'll wait it out a few more years and see what happens. It isn't like the option isn't open as long as I'm alive.

>>36727952
Q isn't even necessary to explain anything and Q would essentially be Matthew..

>>36728036
Orthodox and Anglican priests can stay married if they were married prior to becoming a priest, and The Catholic church lets Orthodox and Anglican priests who convert keep their wives.

>>36725436
There's also a high chance an actual written copy of Q doesn't even exist anymore. It's far from the only biblical book that has been lost through time. Even the Old Testament mentions a couple now lost books.

>>36725658
>This talks about anything that is done to please yourself and not God is sinful.
Your interpretation of That verse is a bit funny. Would you say cooking yourself a steak is sinful because it brings you pleasure and not God?

>>36728106
If I remember from reading Orthodox and Eastern Rite Catholic priests can marry before ordination but not after. Anglican priests can marry before or after ordination and Roman Rite Catholic priests can never marry. Regardless such a decision I would never do unless I felt certain God would want me to do it anyway.

>>36727903
is that not chaste?

>>36725872
/pol/ is for politics. /his/ is for history. Christianity pertains to more than either of those. I'm not christian but I'm fine with an ocasional christian thread here.

>>36727686

>That video's argument that 1000's+ years of punishment would be like no punishment

Seems like you'd actually be carrying around pretty horrible memories of being tortured, in the same way a rape victim is never quite the same after. You'd also have regrets about missing out on all those initial family joyous reunions and the like. And it's hard to see there not being some kind of pecking order of souls where the ones who were stuck in hell or purgatory or on earth as ghosts are treated like second-class citizens.

And, you know, they stole the idea from the Zoroastrian Hell which you do get to get out of eventually

Good b8 thread OP, always rustles many jimmies.

>>36727941
You have ignored so much context and the context of the verse I quoted. Even the word coming doesn't necessarily negate the possibility that they were already existent prior. I mean if you have trouble with that then how do you answer the fact that the verse I quoted talks about those who pierced him, referring to his earthly ministry and the pain he was in.

>>36727952
>We will never know for sure about Q.
Radical scepticism. The thing is we already have pretty much enough evidence to prove that the Bible was pretty much the same as the time that the Jerusalem apostles wrote it. Most scholars when talking about variants are only talking about little detail. There is nothing in all of the manuscript we've found none effect the true teaching of the gospel but like I said early are mundane things like in some manuscript it says Christ and others say, Jesus.

>>36727965
I understand already anon but feel free to ask questions. I have a lot of time on my hand.

>>36728283
You're gonna have to demonstrate that the Gospels are history, bro, because they're looking like mythical allegory to me

>>36728011
I don't understand what you are talking about here.

>>36728283
Also, they could be talking about the demons that pierced him in the lower Heavens, in fact that makes the most sense since the Romans that supposedly crucified him are long since dead and won't be resurrected because they didn't believe in Jesus. Not to mention it says Tribes of the Earth as in the Tribes of Judah (that didn't even exist) who would get resurrected because they were Jews and nothing about an Earthly ministry, this is what will happen at the end of time. This is what will happen on the New Jerusalem though.

>>36728117
Hey anon check out what I wrote here>>36728283
Read the second response of course

>>36728120
Coincidentally, yes!

>So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
1 Corinthians 10:30

>>36728186
Maybe be.

>>36728210
>carrying around pretty horrible memories
Yeah but even that, if the memories stopped then would you care that it happened? If you say yes then they aren't over it. If they are traumatised, then they are still in a present state of suffering. But hell is more than just that bur rather a complete separation from God.

Also, your spoiler text proves that Christian ideas of hell are different since yu cannot escape.

>>36728279
Thanks for joining if you have any questions then feel free to ask.

>>36728349
Well, we have the book of Corinthians, which was written by Pauls himself and is dated to the year 50. No scholar doubts this. Also, there are outer biblical source which proves what christ taught.

>>36725872
It's mostly a sad attempt at rebuilding the west. Just ignore and sage

>>36728599
Is christianity racist?
Why is christianity used by white supremacists so much?
Why did white supremacists use it to justify slavery?

>>36728668
Paul's authentic letters never actually deliberately put Jesus on Earth, they're actually so vague that it could support mythicism as well due to the simple fact that all Paul says was his source is scripture and revelation. We know he could get sayings from Revelation because he got the command from the Lord's supper from revelation. They don't put Jesus on Earth in anyway where you don't have to twist the text.

>>36726548
Because this system of morality is retarded and logically inconsistent

>>36728283
Minor changes such as Jesus/Christ and an occasional verse that appears in one manuscript but not another won't change my mind about who Jesus was. My point about Q is different. Growing up in the church my pastors and teachers said we could trust the bible because we have four independent accounts that corroborate each other. That simply isn't true. Q being mathew/luke is a side point. The main reason why Q is important to me is that it demonstrates how closely and precisely the early church communicated. This changes "4 inependent sources" into one single unreliable source, namely, the early church. You might not agree with my assessment of "unreliable", but to me it is way easier to accept that one group in history got a bit carried away with themselves than to believe the laws of physics were in suspension for the feeding of the 5000

>>36728570
>Also, they could be talking about the demons that pierced him in the lower Heavens,
So you think that the demons will be resurrected but it doesn't make sense for the Romans that crucified to be resurrected. On judgement day all will be raised back up for judgement, but those who will receive eternal life are those who believed in him.

>Tribes of Judah (that didn't even exist)
??? According to the Torah, the tribe consisted of descendants of Judah, the fourth son of Jacob and of Leah. They did exist.

I mean unless you wanna say that there are two Christs, which I will happily refute, then who do you think in the gospels says

>And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
John 14:3

>For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
Matthew 16:27

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MMUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH JAEYZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZ

>>36728775
Christanon, don't bother responding to clear race bait

>>36727758
Bahahahah, that's all my philosophy professor raves about, the "humanizing" nature of "turning the other cheek"

You faggots need to get your shit together before I'll even entertain your beliefs

>>36728775
>Is Christianity racist?
No, Moses himself had a black wife and his family rebuked him for it then they were cursed with leprosy, which is a skin condition and is also ironic considering the sin they committed was associated with skins colour. Numbers 12:1

>Why is christianity used by white supremacists so much?
>Why did white supremacists use it to justify slavery?

>as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
2 Peter 3:16

>>36728900
Demons don't have to be resurrected and that part of the verse says nothing about anyone being resurrected especially on Earth but it is talking about the resurrection, which you're going to have to demonstrate was a bodily resurrection of the dead and not a spiritual resurrection of the dead.

>They did exist
The Patriarchs didn't exist therefore the tribes of Judah didn't exist, they were a religious thing and not at all based in historical fact.

>I mean unless you wanna say that there are two Christs, which I will happily refute, then who do you think in the gospels says
That verse in Matthew also says come and not return. Matthew was writing allegory. John is just so far gone from everything, I can't even take it seriously.

>>36728930
Dude, you literally come in every thread saying the same thing. It's still funny though and I love seeing your dedication. But in all seriousness though if there are any questions you want to be answered then fee free to ask.

hey, guys, I'm taking a 5-minute break to make and drink tea. will be back shortly.

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I recommend everyone in this thread actually give the annotated bible a read. It's a great resource if you're on the fence about being an atheist or a Christfag.

It's a historically sourced, philosophically minded look at the Bible. Everyone here ought to appreciate the absurdity

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com

>>36728862
yeah, I would consider this radical scepticism, but you have to understand that although little detail "might" be lost the message of the gospel has still been preserved.

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>for Christ had already died for our sins and so what could we possibly add on to that? Are we to say that the blood of Christ is not sufficient and we are to add onto that?

Ive always been confused by his death for our sins. In what way did it cleanse humanity?

>>36729314
Thanks senpai. I've been having a spiritual debate with myself for awhile. Time to finally take the plunge and buy my fedora

>>36729444
It goes like this. Humans in the garden of Eden were sinless before God, but after sinning, they were sent away from the presence of God, and their natures were also changed IE they started sinning. Now the wages of sin is death and once you sin you deserve to die. But instead, christ took on the sins of all those who will believe in him and died, fulling the need for the death to atone for sin. Jesus also lived a sinless, perfect life and so on the cross when he took our sins he also gave us his perfect record of obedience and righteousness, and in exchange, we gave Christ our sins. He died because the wages of sin is death and so now we are clean enough to enter into heaven.

Hope that answered your question and if you have any more questions then feel free to ask.

>>36729608
The real question is why would God allow us to sin? Why give us free will if it causes suffering? Why do we not just automatically choose God? He is the creator of the universe, he can define what will is to mean.

Why create the arbitrary sin tree in the garden of Eden?

>>36729332
I've been agreeing with you on this part the whole time. I don't think that the bible changed since it was written down. I just think that the early church had enough time between Jesus death and the writing of the gospels to invent all sorts of miracles to include in the bible.

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MOMMY
THEOTOKOS

>>36729721
>Why give us free will if it causes suffering?
Ok, remember when I said this is gonna be brutal This is gonna be the most brutal post yet, relative to the eyes of a disbeliever.

In the Bible, there is no free will. The people who will enter into heaven and those who will enter hell have already been predestined. God deliberately creates people solely for hell to glorify himself and show them his wrath while saves some people to show his power and mercy. It's god's free will to do so.

>What then shall we say Is God unjust Absolutely not
Romans 9:14

This is in response to the fact that the Romans felt that God was being unfair with predestining some to hell while others to heaven without giving them a choice and in the next verse we get an answer.

>For He says to Moses I will have mercy on whom I have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion So then it does not depend on mans desire or effort but on Gods mercy
Romans 9:15-16

It's to glorify God that's why. Because when his decree comes to pass it shows his power and all of it. I preach a god centred bible and not a man centred one and so when I hear this I rejoice because it exalts god and man does not like this because shows man is weak and incapable yet we like taking control.

Hope that answered your question.

>>36730229
>The people who will enter into heaven and those who will enter hell have already been predestined.
This
God sowed his seeds as did the Devil, come the day of the final judgement the weeds will be seperated from the wheat

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>>36730229
>Even God hates robots
And you want people here to believe this and follow this?

>>36730229

So God is basically an awful dickhead.

>>36729828
Ok, I get what you're trying to say now. One thing about the gospel is that when it was first being produced in the 1st century, there wasn't a set of people who controlled the bible. Most people copied it from hand at home, and it was freely produced. Now if one person tried to change what was written in the bible they would have almost had a lot of backlash since theirs didn't match with others. That's why we're so blessed to have so many copies of the early Bible because we can compare each one and see what is common and know better what the original said. And if one differed then one might assume that that one was changed perhaps by accident or by someone deliberately trying to change the message of the gospel.
So there was never a time when one person or one group of people had control of the Bible so that they could add and change church doctrine. In the early days it was, in fact, illegal to even be a Christian until the 3rd century and so it was very unlikely anyone changed what was written because they couldn't have.

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>>36730229
WOW this makes me not wanna be a Christian anymore. You really shouldn't post heresy like this dude, it doesn't help our cause.

>>36729048
I didn't realize a philosophy professor was a theologian. Here's a proper way of viewing the verse.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/turn-the-other-cheek

>>36730229
Stop calling yourself a Christian for the good of the faith

You have no proof anything in the bible isn't just made up by a few men. No proof of divinity.

And where are the woman?!!

Its sexist? Woman are suppose to submit. We ars equal! But not according to, you sexist and racist and you promote hate killing anyone who does not submit to you.

>>36730460
>Cucktholics

>>36730368
Just because he made you a loser in this world doesn't mean you have to be one in the hereafter. God might be saving his prize for you in the future.

>>36730402
No, there is nothing morally wrong with that. He created you and can use you what whatever reason he wishes. What makes you so important it is God who matters, and you were made for his glory and not your own. Read my last paragraph.

>>36730435
>>36730503
Of course. If you are not of god's sheep, then you will never understand. It's easy to love God when he says stuff like he loves you and what not, but it takes a true genuine believer to come out and say that I love all of the god's attributes and from what I read in scripture I would never want an any different god but the one true God!

OP is an Antichristian shill attempting to defame Christians.

>>36729103
>The verse says nothing about anyone being resurrected
yeah, but it specifically talks about those who pierced him, and we all know that is talking bout the Romans. Anything else would be pure conjecture, a radical conjecture at that.

>The Patriarchs didn't exist therefore the tribes of Judah didn't exist
Do you even know who the Patriarchs are? They existed way back in the OT.

>That verse in Matthew also says come and not return.
Yeah, but as I told you earlier to come doesn't negate the fact that you have already been present prior. This verse even proves it since he is already where he says's he coming to. I wouldn't make sense if you interpreted it as simply coming and not being there prior makes the verse make no sense since he was already where he said he was coming to.

>Matthew was writing allegory
Proof.

>John is just so far gone from everything, I can't even take it seriously.
John is the gospel which we have the earliest manuscript of. When we found it surprised scholars since they thought that the gospel of John was a latter one and this finding blew those ideas out of the park and brought it back into the first century.

Stop with the god is love. God is the boss. What he says goes. Don't like it? Too bad. He is god and if you try something he smite you. Make you suffer. He is all powerful and you are an ant compared to him.

>>36730748
How so? Do you actually think I'll make so manny thread, posting for hours just as a joke? What makes you think this anyway?

>>36730815
>Love that which attempts to destroy because he secretly loves you

>>36730815
God is loving but he is also just and like a father who loves his child he must discipline him at times of misbehaving.

>>36730832
Why are woman treated like second class citizens by god?

>>36730815
If God hates us now why am I to believe that there is a glorious afterlife?

>>36730859
A father never gives up on their child. God has destroyed ppl and made them suffer just because, think of lot think of Joe. All faithful but what did god give them in return?

A father can discipline but not abuse.

>>36730876
They're not. In fact, it was the testament of woman that was used to prove Christ was raised from the dead. This passed the criteria of embarrassment because in the ancient days the testimony of a woman was 0 compared to that of a man. The fact that their main source came from a woman means that they probably didn't lie about it since the testimony of a woman was nothing and it also shows women in a more brighter light since their testimony is the one that we use to prove the resurrection.

>>36730959
>> The fact that their main source came from a woman means that they probably didn't lie about it

If anything that increases the chance that they lied to gain power.
But no one refutes that right? Oh wait.

>>36727067
Not sure if it is backed up in the bible anywhere, but I once heard that even if somebody in hell was given the chance they wouldn't want to leave. In hell God's restraining grace is gone and we become the vile beasts we would be without Him. Hell is essentially a cage filled with the most evil creatures imaginable being tortured and torturing each other but given the chance they wouldn't want any part in heaven, be it out of spite or hatred of anything good.

>>36730941
>A father never gives up on their child.
At times of great sin, he does. For example, if your child committed murder then you will feel the need to call the cops. It may be a harsh decision, but it is the right one. The same is with God he loves you but at the same time is just.

>God has destroyed ppl and made them suffer just because think of lot think of Joe.
Lot chose to sin and so was punished. He went into Sodom and Gomorrah willingly and paid the price. Job was being tested by God to see the source of his righteousness and in the end passed.

>abuse
Definition of abuse: Improper treatment or usage; application to a wrong or bad purpose; an unjust, corrupt or wrongful practice or custom.
But that's not what's happening but rather God is giving you what you deserve.

>>36731053
>If anything that increases the chance that they lied to gain power.
Who why and how? In fact, one of the main arguments against Christianity in the early days was because of the fact that their main testimonies were from children and so that fact gave them more trouble than good in the early days of the church.

>>36730959
And explain more how "they aren't " you said one thing that doesn't really say they are first class citizens. You said something that gives the Christian church power. They have a reason to say Jesus resurrected. A very huge one.

Should be treat woman like they say to in the bible?

>>36730810
Then why didn't it say 'The Romans and Jews who pierced him'? If it was talking about the Romans or Jews? Fuck off, bro.

>Do you even know who the Patriarchs are? They existed way back in the OT
Yes, and things from the 2nd century BC are referenced with them.

>This verse even proves it since he is already where he says's he coming to
New Jerusalem hasn't even been made yet.

>Proof
The verse about the magi seeing HIS star could be a reference to what he originally was worshiped as because Stars are synonymous with angels and it says 'HIS star'. The East is usually reference to Heaven.

>John is the gospel which we have the earliest manuscript of
So what, it's still dated passed 90AD

>>36731074
No they protect their child and think what did they do wrong. God on the other hand thinks he did nothing wrong and puts total blame on the child and destroys them.

He's selfish and arrogant.

And sometimes children deserve a beating or worse that doesn't mean we do it. Why? Because its wrong. God on the other hand has no problem killing you and sending you to hell for all eternity.

>>36729444
An explanation I personally like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXOWyjB7d24
Somebody had to pay the price for our sins, how could a just God simply pardon people despite their crimes? Even more: How can a holy God have fellowship with sinners? Jesus took our sins upon himself and received our punishment.

>>36731122
>You said something that gives the Christian church power. They have a reason to say Jesus resurrected. A very huge one.
Not in the early days. That one simple fact gave the church a lot of difficulties because in ancient culture the testimony of a woman was worth nothing. Benefiting from it would be more of a modern thing.

>Should be treat woman like they say to in the bible?
Yeah sure.

>In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
1 Timothy 3:11

>>36731121
The church. They are a controlling power. And they will do anything to keep that power.

I respect all your efforts OP. A shame you are wasting your energy in such a stupid thing. Then again, convincing everyone that we dont actually have a shit of a clue about God probably wouldnt inspire you that much.

>>36731254
Wait the whole Jesus thing is based on one woman's testimony? Plus some of children? You see no problem with this?

>>36731121

ChristAnon,

Are you the old tripfag formerly known as ChristFag? Just wanted to know.

SATAN SATAN SATAN
SATAN SATAN SATAN
SATAN SATAN SATAN
SATAN SATAN SATAN
SATAN SATAN SATAN

>>36731254
So we should stone them?

And b4 cast the first stone.

We still have no proof Jesus lived and resurrected.

If so post it.

Any ex christian here? Have you ever tried saying blasphemy out loud? It feels so refreshing.

>>36731242
>Then why didn't it say 'The Romans and Jews who pierced him'? If it was talking about the Romans or Jews? Fuck off, bro.
Again context. The verse assumes you have read the gospels and know what he is talking about.

>Yes, and things from the 2nd century BC are referenced with them.
So, what are you arguing about?

>New Jerusalem hasn't even been made yet.
It isn't even talking about that. You will see virtually no biblical commentator come to the conclusion you are coming to. Just look at this exegetical interpretation of the original greek from Meyer's NT Commentary on Matthew 16:27. It's talking about the second coming.

>The verse about the magi seeing HIS star could be a reference to what he originally was worshiped as because Stars are synonymous with angels and it says 'HIS star'. The East is usually reference to Heaven.
What are you trying to prove?

>So what, it's still dated passed 90AD
It is still in living period of those who knew the 11 apostles and was read by the second generation of christians who probably considered it scripture.

Is orthodoxy the one true faith? If we discovered aliens, how would that impact Christianity? Do you see Christianity surviving the next 100 years even after the globalists infiltrated the church during Vatican II? Is freemasonry heresy?

Is the book of Enoch true canon? Do you think there are books hidden from us normies only accessed by the Vatican?

>>36731566
Does it? Because none of it puts Jesus on Earth. Maybe the Church wants to have you assume that 'John' wrote Revelations, but that may not even be the case.

>So, what are you arguing about?
The Earth is not 6000 years old

>It isn't even talking about that. You will see virtually no biblical commentator come to the conclusion you are coming to. Just look at this exegetical interpretation of the original greek from Meyer's NT Commentary on Matthew 16:27. It's talking about the second coming.

It doesn't say anything about a second coming, it's talking about his coming at the end of time. It doesn't matter what the Biblical commentator comes to which conclusion because it doesn't say a return or second coming, it says a coming of Jesus.

>What are you trying to prove?
That it's allegory for a Celestial Jesus at the start of Christianity instead of a historical one.

The rest of that is just Church assumptions.

>>36731249
>No they protect their child and think what did they do wrong.
He committed a crime and so needs to be justly punished. It would be loving for a father to not tell the police but it will not be just. The just thing to do would be to punish him or call the police. God already knows the heart of man and does not need time to think.

>>36731306
yeah, but in the ancient days they did not. It was illegal to be a Christian until the 4th century when Constantine declared Christianity legal. The church gained power centuries later and the criteria of embarrassment were already met for its time.

>>36731340
If you have any questions then feel free to ask.

>>36731370
No, it is not the only testimony and there was three woman. Also, what child are you referring to again?

>>36731380
No, lol!

>>36731393
If you have any questions the feel free to ask.

>>36731401
>So we should stone them?
No! "only he without sin can cast the first stone."

>>36731430
I would love to and there is so much scholarly evidence for it. The crucifixion is also known by scholars as one of the most factual things in history.

>>36731495
No.

>>36731607
>Is orthodoxy the one true faith?
I'm a reformed baptist so...

>If we discovered aliens, how would that impact Christianity?
Shouldn't really. The bible doesn't say that were are the only creations in this universe.

>Do you see Christianity surviving the next 100 years even after the globalists infiltrated the church during Vatican II?
Not Catholic but yeah I do but the number of "true" Christians will go drastically down, and the churches will be mostly filled with heretics and false believers.

>Is Freemasonry heresy?
Yes!

>>36731649
>Is the book of Enoch true canon?
No.

>Do you think there are books hidden from us normies only accessed by the Vatican?
I used to think so but once you learn about the transmission of the Bible and how it was done you begin to lose hope in ideas like that.

Make a discord anon

>>36731907
Reformed Baptist? How different is that from Southern Baptist? I grew up Southern Baptist but I find myself leaning to the Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican ways of thinking as an adult.

>>36731955
Dude, I was planning on making one and posting it in this thread but forgot. Will do in the next one btw.

>>36731907
So does that mean there's a Jesus for every intelligent planet? How would another planet know of Christianity without prophets. Is the current pope a false prophet?

>>36731956
>Southern Baptist
Well, it all falls under Protestantism just like other sects such as presbyterianism, Calvinism and other reformed sects but from what I understand they aren't that different. But then again I don't know much about it.

>>36732091
>So does that mean there's a Jesus for every intelligent planet?
Perhaps, who knows but it is very possible and not out of the scopes of Christian beliefs.

>Is the current Pope a false prophet?
I'm not Catholic and so do not believe in the papacy so I would say yeah, he is a false prophet but then again I don't think Catholics consider the pope a prophet.

>>36731730
>Does it? Because none of it puts Jesus on Earth.
The context of Matthew 16 is him speaking to the Pharisees and talking about his second coming. Although he uses the word come, it does not mean that he is talking about a future event where he will appear and be back with his angels in all his glory. Cross reference this with Ecclesiastes 3:17, and you will see that it is talking about the time when Christ returns to judge the people.

>The Earth is not 6000 years old
Sure, I agree.

>It doesn't say anything about a second coming, it's talking about his coming at the end of time.
That's the second coming! He was already here on earth then he left and is coming back. There's a reason we call it the second "coming."

>That it's allegory for a Celestial Jesus at the start of Christianity instead of a historical one.
Have you looked at the entire chapter? Also, what do you think it is an allegory of?

>The rest of that is just Church assumptions.
And you know better than the church as well as early church fathers and their interpretations.

>>36732486
>The context of Matthew 16 is him speaking to the Pharisees and talking about his second coming.
Yes, but he doesn't call it a return or second coming, it could be Matthew referencing the coming of Christ and being meta as he was writing allegory.
>Sure, I agree
There a references to 2nd century BC things in the text, meaning they would have had to exist in the 2nd century BC.
>That's the second coming! He was already here on earth then he left and is coming back. There's a reason we call it the second "coming."
Again, they don't say it's a second coming, that's you putting it into the text. They call it a coming, not a return, not a second coming. That's evidence that Matthew and Mark was writing allegory.
>Have you looked at the entire chapter? Also, what do you think it is an allegory of?
The entire chapter doesn't have to be allegory
>And you know better than the church as well as early church fathers and their interpretations
When their sources are questionable, yes.

>>36724456
Fake and gay

originalia

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>>36730859
>like a father who loves his child he must discipline him
>by locking him in a burning closet for all of eternity
Tough love indeed.

Should the bible be read literally or poetically?

It would appear that a literal reading would come in conflict with many of the sciences.

But to the so called "Let there be light" line seems a poetic description of the big bang.

At present
I cannot confirm the existence of god(s)
I cannot confirm the nonexistence of god(s)
That plants me at agnosticism

Science doesn't directly refute god, but it might refute holy scriptures, is it possible to believe in god(s) without believing in the holy scriptures of the various religions?


At present it seems to me that god(s) is/are the programmer(s) of this reality simulator system and I'm not certain that he takes direct actions within it outside of starting it.

Is/are the god(s) within the system?
Is/are the god(s) outside the system?
Is/are the god(s) the system itself?

Christianity seems to say that he programmed himself into it in the form of Jesus, but I remain skeptical of that notion; I won't deny that Jesus was a saintly person, but to say further leaves me uneasy

>>36732786
Atheism is not the belief in the non-existence of a god, you idiot

Christianity is fucking retarded and so is every other religion. Only CHIM can break you free from the confines of this world.

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>>36733506
This. Have any of you christians ever actually read your bible? The old testament in particular? You are literally worshipping a vampiric, demonic entity that destroys entire cities in a hail of fire because he doesn't like where they put their peepee. You're also going to hell for your cotton/polyester shirt.

>god is omniscient but somehow doesn't see the fall of man coming and lets it happen
>we, who have absolutely nothing to do with adam & eve must offer reprisal for their mistake
>boat that holds every animal on the planet despite not being physically possible with the given dimensions
>people live for 900 years
>god demands genital mutilation and the sacrifice of a son as a burnt offering
>demands animal sacrifices and more burnt offerings
>letting angels get raped = bad but letting your daughters get raped = perfectly fine
>destroys entire cities with fire for sticking their dicks in the wrong place and disliking outsiders
>turns lot's wife into a pillar of salt for looking back at this event

>intentionally hardens pharaoh's heart so he can fuck up egypt so everyone knows how malevolent he can be when he's angry
>many of the plagues are demonic symbolism (flies, locust, frogs, river of blood etc)
>slaughters every firstborn son of egypt, including children and babies, while passing over places marked with blood sigils
>makes the egyptian army pursue the jews and drowns them all (0 evidence)
>tries to kill moses for not mutilating his son until his wife does it with a pointy rock
>gives stupid rules like no mixed fabrics and no shellfish/"unclean" animals
>murder fags, disobedient children, zoophiles blah blah blah who will then be tortured forever in hell
All just in the early old testament. This reads an awful lot like something bronze age sand people who had their brains fried by the sun would write.

>>36734042
God works in mysterious ways. It's not our place to know His reasons, if He commands us to do something we must do it.

>>36731801
So why doesn't god punish everyone who has done bad? And don't give me that he will later on. He punishd those ppl in life he didnt wait for hell. so why not them?

And we are talking about gods real church the Jewish one the one Jesus was a part of. Jesus didn't have anything to do with Christianity, fanatics came up with that long after his death.

Or should I say Muslim church? Idk what was first Christians or Muslims?

>>36731801
You said the problem the church had was testimony from woman and children.

>>36733343
Are you completely retarded? Look at the definition of atheism

>>36734840
Atheism is a lack of belief in deities, The rejection of a claim. Are you?