/pol/ why do you think capitalism is good?

sage desu

>>134518448
I don't know about all that, OP, but I have a buddy that books free helicopter rides online if you want to get in touch.

>>134518599
nice job bumping the thread

In the United states you are free to establish a socialist community under the guise of a religious organization.

You can be wholly tax exempt, they just require you to take care of your members. The Amish do it, and they intentionally handicap themselves technologically.

You can even benefit from developments that result from capitalism. You can have the best of both worlds.

Why haven't you?

>>134518599
kek

>>134518624
Bump to insult a bump.
It's the nega-bump!

/pol/ are slaves of the international jew who prop themselves up with capitalism

/pol/ has fallen for the deep state's conspiracy to make the working people fight eachother rather than our overlords.

>>134518448
tl;dr
Capitalism decentralizes authority over the economy. That's mostly why it's the only system that ever worked.
People can build up capital under capitalism, when workers have some bargaining power (which is something liberals try their hardest to prevent apparently).

>>134518448
You think nature oppresses you, and you think you're entitled to what other people have.

Both of those beliefs are wrong - the first because nature isn't a thing with a will and can't *DO* or intend anything such that pretending nature can oppress you is an illogical anthropomorphization of an abstract state of affairs, and the second is wrong because you're simply sheerly not owed what other people have for merely existing.

>>134518638
I have nothing against technology (I support automation of all the jobs so humans can live without worrying for next paycheck while robots do all the manual work)

Capitalism was nice but right now it does nothing except suck the money out of lower classes and puts it in the hands of capitalist who did nothing productive.

Believe me, Capitalism is obsolete and detrimental to society.

>>134518448
who will build your roads?

>>134518448
Being able to live a better lifestyle than other people, dressing better and having a luxurious car gives me a massive boner, especially when i remember that more than half the population of the world dreams to live like me and they simply can't.

>>134519099
The Highway Worker's Cooperative

>>134519173
No they won't they will have no incentive to do so, they rather sit on their asses and drink vodka.

>>134518968
Yeah World owes me nothing but I don't owe world anything either. Why do people have to work for basic needs like food, water, clothing ,and shelter. We have an abundance of them. Everyday tonnes of food is spoiled because there is no one to buy them. Why not just give it hungry instead of waiting for it become inedible?

I'm glad that capitalism brought us such technology but we are now more than capable of automating every job so that nobody has to work again. So why not automate everything and let the world be free?

Get a job nigger
>captcha: helicopter

>>134519099
Automated robots
Just punch the command in and watch them run around like roombas

>>134519368
>Why do people have to work for basic needs like food, water, clothing ,and shelter. We have an abundance of them.

And why do you think that is......, oh yeah because of incentives...

>>134519120

The basic reason why capitalism is cancer. People who jerk-off to suffering of others

>>134519426
who will build these robots when there is no incentive to study and work hard for higher education?

>>134518448

that's why I'm a national socialist :^)

>>134519120
yeah it seems to work, everybody else is eating mud cakes n shit.

>>134519368
>Yeah World owes me nothing
Correct.
>but I don't owe world anything either
Also correct - "the world" isn't a person with a will and you owe it nothing.

I don't know how you extend from these two reasonable beliefs to a question of why people work. People work to produce things they and others want and value. They trade with one another because it's more efficient for a person who's good at one thing to do that thing instead of something they're not as good at - it's what we call in economics "comparative advantage". More value is produced, and people trade for what they want based on whatever things that they accrue in their producing that they want to trade.

>>134518448
>thinks endless leisure time is a reward
the most wothless ive ever felt is when i didnt have a job

>>134518448

>Unless there's a profit to be earned

Can you tell me what to work on to improve the human condition?

Not "A" thing, but "The" thing: What maximizes the good?

In socialist regimes, this must necessarily be commanded by the state, generally being inefficient or inaccurate, not to mention prone to corruption.

In the capitalist systems, I simply look to prices: X is more expensive than Y, because the people want X more than they want Y.

This rule typically only breaks down in highly regulated or very small markets: pharmacy comes to mind. Of course, corruption remains an issue, but the distribution of the system across the entire population significantly reduces the impact (Imagine if instead of just Epi-pens, all medication tripled in price)

You make some poor assumptions as well. Inheritance was at one point in the past earned: When you demand that their inheritance be distributed, you are also demanding the scattering of your own legacy.

Your statement on environmentalism is also inaccurate: They dump pollution in the lake because they do not own the lake... They will not poison their own wells, and if another owned one, they would not permit others to destroy them as well.

>>134518448
You are saying an entire system is defunct, because 0.1% of it seems unfair.

>lefty/pol/ memes

I don't even like capitalism but your memes are shit. Porky is forced and blunt on the eyes, it doesn't work.

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The only way to fix this system is a benevolent monarchy.

>>134518825
>That's mostly why it's the only system that ever worked.
That's horseshit, capitalism is in it's infancy over the thousands of years we've experienced Monarchy. Seeing the way Capitalism is going it will end up being the second fastest system to be disposed of right after communism.

>>134519288
>>134519368
Money is not an incentive it's just a means to stay alive these days.
If money was such a great incentive then there would be no such thing as a NEET. BTW What incentive are you getting by defending capitalism?

>>134519028
You didn't answer the question.
You're free to leave the system and join a commune any time you want. Why haven't you?

>>134519490
>let's slowly kill thousands of people by fucking up the economy and the production of goods and services, but hey! it's okay because we really wanted to help them.

fucking commies

>>134518448
>How is that justified? How can a system reward someone for doing nothing

The parents own the cash and have a justifiable right to give the cash to whoever they chose.

>Is it productive for society?

Yes, the bank lends out the money to businesses that need financing.

>Capitalism is so worse that it even justifies the degradation of environment for profit


Communists and socialist degrade the environment for ideology, which is worse.

>Every landmark invention/discovery in the history of humanity was made with the intent of making world a better place.

Source required

>The latest R&D is done only to find ways to cut cost not to make lives easier.

Source required

>Half work force work same hours as before, other half is unemployed

US unemployment is quite low. Reality contradicts the portrayal.

>>134519851
we'll see about that. Right now, capitalism was able to produce more goods, more peace and more people than every other system in the history of mankind.

>>134519922
>BTW What incentive are you getting by defending capitalism?

Literally money, that I can earn for myself.

>>134519955
it would be a big disensentive to do anything if i couldn't leave tons of shit to my spawn n company.

>>134519505
Believe me we'd have people who'd do such great things out of passion and, if given enough resources, can revolutionize the whole planet.
For example, Just look at the Arduino community, they tinker and play and programme away like crazies without getting any money. They even make robots for fun.
Then we also have people who learned coding for fun.

we're not capitalists you fucking dipshit

gas yourself

>>134520085
>Just look at the Arduino community, they tinker and play and programme away like crazies without getting any money. They even make robots for fun.
>Then we also have people who learned coding for fun.
thanks capitalism

>>134520085
HHAHAHAHAHAAHHA have you ever seen the Sovjet Union? China? Cuba? In all of these "communist" states people had NO doctors, NO decent education, NO food, NO luxury goods.

A good example were people who had to travel abroad just to get professional western surgury done. Mostly only the higher ups in the socialist states could afford that though...

Are you literally retarted?

>>134519922
Money is a medium of exchange people utilize to make trade easier. Most people have material ambitions such that they'd rather spend some of their time and energy in pursuit of accumulating money so that they can acquire things they or others close to them want than not spend some time in that pursuit.
People like to go on vacations, eat nicer foods, have the latest technologies before they hit a lower price range, etc etc etc. Some people care about those things more and some care about them less. NEETs generally care about those things less, and the disvalue of pursuing them isn't worth it as far as they see it. But most people are not NEETs, and want material things and to have families, and they manage to make what they want happen by producing value and trading.

>>134519955
One should rather say "underemployment", then unemployment, because capitalists still think having 3 jobs is fine, as long as you didn't enherited money from your parents - while (((they))) allowed it to happen in the first place.

>>134520173
Do we have a strausser in our midst?

>>134520085
Comrade, your weed must be amazing.

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>>134518448

>As the name suggests, capitalism only benefits those who have capital

blatantly wrong, living standards have been raising all over the world thanks to it, never in the history of mankind the bigger problem was obesity rather than starvation

>...Invest...
>How is that justified? How can a system reward someone for doing nothing

are you implying investments do nothing, because the last time I've checked the countries with larger percentage of investments tend to quite well

>Wage cuck
>Makes $70,000 a year

are you fucking daft ?

>Capitalist Porky puts $14 mill in bank as fixed deposit which he inherited from daddy porky

capitalists like to invest their income rather than sleep on it, as the inflation will eat it up

>Capitalism is so worse that it even justifies the degradation of environment for profit

abbos turned australia in to a desert with 30 000 year forest fires, mezo americans managed to fuck up their soil due to unsustainable farming practices, medieval europeans chopped down the trees covering the entire continent, fucking soviet union polluted it's environment with no regards to human life and sustainability

so no, people in general in every system were short sighted as fuck, capitalism however have the means to actually protect the environment and it's been doing it unlike the other systems mentioned

>Every landmark invention/discovery in the history of humanity was made with the intent of making world a better place.

partly, the inventors are highly skilled professionals that are motivated with money, they do help the world but without material incentive, most would not suffer trough decades of mental torture

>R&D dept. makes a better method of production which cuts down production time by half

and thus optimization is born, people are freed to search more fulfilling jobs


for a self proclaimed communist you are quite obsessed with other's people money and sexual life, almost like you are jealous

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Because it works.

>>134520085

you can do all of that shit too you fucking moron

but you're too busy masturbating to anime traps and too fat to fucking move

fuck off

if you can't fix yourself you can't fix the world, fag

We do not live under real capitalism, Real capitalism has no state intervention

>>134518448
I don't think rampant unregulated capitalism is a good idea, but neither is taxing the shit out of your people.
The best solution is a system that forces corporations to become moderated and produce locally.

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because is makes life comfy

we should go for extreme unregualted capitalism

socialism causes great dperessions and high prices low supply

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4nbgZH3xrQ

>>134520454
;))))

>>134520367

I sympathize but no I would not identify myself as a nazbol. The differences are minimal in modern context, I don't see why the fracture. Both ideologies need to adapt (preferably into the same one) to the modern landscape.

>>134519603
Right but current capitalist structure creates unnecessary competition which leads to even more waste of resources.
Say, Egypt has a factory which makes Doritos-like snacks. Suddenly Doritos decides to send a ship full of Doritos to sell it to Egyptians. Ideally I think it was unnecessary because Egypt already had something like Doritos and it was more than capable of manufacturing them but instead they decided to waste fuel and food to ship Doritos from USA to Egypt

>>134519647
What will you do when you earn enough that you can feed you next 10 generations? I think it's not the money that motivates you, its the personal satisfaction of working.

>>134519717
>>134519688
Entire system is defunct because it creates unnecessary competition (Top 1% is just a symptom to a bigger problem) and stops scientific progress which can reduce cost to consumer. Say, somebody develops a cure for Cancer and it costs only $12. Do you think it is profitable to release it for consumers who pay over $100,000 on cancer treatments?

>>134519719
Culturally enrich yourself

>>134519936
Because those privileges are only of those who partake in the system. Good education, best healthcare and lifestyle which can be given foe little to no cost are being charged like gold

>>134519945
Dont worry I'm not a communist. I think it's cancer too because it advocates seizure of means of production by government but I advocate that the means of production should be completely automated.

>>134520060
I'm talking about direct incentive, not derived incentive. Is someone paying you for this or is it personal satisfaction?

>>134519922
The only reason neets exist is because they have enough money not to die on the streets which should be taken away to give them incentive to work

>>134520569
>>134520432
>>134520443
>>134520422
>>134520232
Like I said, Capitalism was nice to usher us through Industrial revolution but it has lived past it's utility, now it's just jews jerk circle.

>>134520270
I'm not a communist, mate. Communism wants the government to have the means of production but I say that automate every last job so humans don't have to work for 8 hours a day.

>>134520280
So why pay for having a family and raising children when those things can be free.

>>134520454
Have a (you)

>>134520461
Why not automate every means of production? We are more than capable of doing that today

>>134521189
>Thinks right to live is an inventive
Heartless Chinese chinks have taken over your country I presume

>>134521128
"Corruption"?
If you're talking about the state, of course the state is corrupt - everything a state does and stands for is evil incarnate.

If people didn't think it was worth selling Doritos in Egypt they wouldn't do it. The fact that in your hypothetical people do means they think it's worth their time and energy. If people are doing what they want and it yields results they value, they'll keep doing that thing. If they miscalculate and can't sell Doritos in Egypt, they'll generally stop the effort. Market incentive is to minimize waste - if you're losing money in your candy shop because some of your products just aren't popular, you're generally going to stop spending money to stock those candies that don't sell. These are basic, intuitively understandable examples of people pursuing what they value in life that are at the crux of understanding economic activity and the motivation of human activity.

>>134518448
You seem to think we love porky, he will get the oven just like you internationalist fucking rats.

>>134518448


You don't even know what Capitalism is, you fool.

Capitalism is NOT corporations.

Educate yourself faggot.

>>134521503
>So why pay for having a family and raising children when those things can be free
Free to whom?
Someone has to change diapers. Someone has to get food. Someone has to drive. Things must be done for things to get done - is your complaint unironically simply that you think other people ought to do those for you? Why? You've already said people don't owe you anything, which is a reasonable belief.

>>134521503

>Like I said, Capitalism was nice to usher us through Industrial revolution but it has lived past it's utility

What, you mean creating everything you use on daily bases ?

It's never been more relevant that today and swindlers and parasites ((())) are an active detriment to it.

>>134518448
The biggest benefit to capitalism is probably that I actually get paid for my work rather than being forced into slave labor and if I refuse or fail to meet quotas I get shot for "betraying the people".

So yeah, I like not being a slave and being alive. That is why.

>>134521612
I said "Unnecessary competition", you retard. Why shit on resources by import and export when one country is capable of creating the same thing but only thing stopping it is capitalist jews sitting on the patents

>>134518448

I love this "PORKY PORKY" meme. It's really funny, but OP the commie needs a nice helicopter ride.

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>>134518448
>Land on 'Chance'
>Card says "You inherit $100 mill."
>Invest it in a safe scheme
>Never work for day in life
How is that justified? How can a system reward someone for doing nothing


Why shouldn't you be free to work hard and leave all your money to your kids? How much work do think is done each year by people who want to give their kids the most security they can?

>>134518448
Captitalism is one of the best things we've ever invented, I agree with you that this current incarnation of capitalism completely sucks but that's because it's just been jewed to fuck and is nothing like how we first envisioned it. We have to go back to the 1850's in ecomonics relationships borders everything.

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>>134521128
Who defines what is 'unnecessary' vs necessary competition?

Wow a name invented by Karl Marx would *shocker* support Karl Marx's position? True genius only proletarian can deduce this.

>>134521722
Well is the world following the book version of Capitalism,eh Porky? Corporations are the ones who rule them tho.

>>134521747
>>134521730
>>134521767

Now change that someone to something because I do not want humans to work such manual jobs like making diapers, harvesting food, or driving. We can automate those jobs instantly. Why are you Capitalists getting boner about getting mundane jobs which always have the risk of getting automated? Just let it happen and live happily while robots do the job while you work minimal and paid equitably.

>>134522125
>>134521925
Not a commie. Just a guy who wants everything automated, bong.

>>134522121
The lack of resources does. If competition creates waste then it's unnecessary.

>>134522121
Dont bother trying to rationalize with marxist. People give Christians shit, but it is literally hard coded into the DNA of Marxism that any fact or idea that opposes it is "Borg" science unfit for proletariate "facts". They cannot be argued with, within the context of their own ideology.

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>1 post by this ID

SAGE it

>>134522145
>Now change that someone to something because I do not want humans to work such manual jobs

No we can't, otherwise these would be automated by now since robots are cheaper than human labor you fucking moron.

>>134522323
Listen, mate. I don't give a fuck about equality. I want equity and a Jew-Free Economy which knows how to handle resources properly without looking for profit.

>>134518448
>capitalism only benefits those who have capital
Your body is capital. it's worth something even if you just want to sell your own organs. It is a means of production, champ.

Also, any porky with 14 mill, making 70k in interest a year is fucking themselves at 0.5% interest. That's shit interest for that kind of money, or even a savings account of a few thousand.

>2 posts by this ID
At least you came back for one

>>134522145
Automation is not a magic wand, it's really, really hard to do and even worse its possible to do it get it to work and it actually lowers productivity and people might not even notice. Look at how American car manufactures tried to use it in the 80's vs the Japanese Jidoka model.

>>134522298
Do you not realize that scarcity and infinite demand all competiton valid by your own mindset? Not that I'd expect some dumb vatnik shitposting from leftypol to know even child-tier economics.

>>134518448
In the first case, that's problem with the banks, not capitalism. In the second casw, if they can afford it and not lose to competition it means they're doing something right. Also, it's pretty funny that you say that progress would've been made even without money, while all PCs and universal access to internet have happened specifically because people wanted to profit off that. You've gotta face it, capitalism isn't perfect, but it's the best system available (communism is a joke).

>>134518638
He'd have to get an actual job then.

>>134522440
Then happily switch over to universal income and pay minimal for everything.

>>134522483
How can you properly manage without valuations determined by market prices. Look up the "economic calculation problem" if you have enough brain cells to type that out.

>>134522323
I always argue to crowd, that's where you can change minds.

>>134518448
It's not that it's so good

It's that every alternative is garbage still

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>>134519851
this
bring fascism back

>>134522664
I'm just letting you know senpai, even if a marxist saw a contradictory fact with their own eyes they wouldnt believe it. It's sad really.

>>134518638
Seattle will be next with sharia law

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>>134518448
>capitalism only benefits those who have capital
Literally created the highest living standards in the history of the world, for 3 separate classes.
>>Never work for day in life
Isn't that the dream of all commie faggots anyway? So why are you blasted
>Is it productive for society? In a capitalist economy, yes. Stay in school faggot.

>>134518448
this

>>134522496
>Automation is hard to do
It's not that fucking hard, McD felt like automating, they did it. Car manufacturers felt like doing it so they did it. Even farms are getting automated these days with minimal human interaction. IDK where did you see the lowering of productivity because in long run, productivity has always increased

Wake the fuck up, cave man

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I think the benefit of free market capitalism is that, with a sperg-like dedication to your business, craft, or simply the art of making shit tons of money, literally anyone has the opportunity to make it big, however big the chance, and however large the deck stacked against you. Nepotism and avarice are an unfortunate byproduct of fabulous success and wealth, but the acceptance of these vices as a known or been encouraged way of conducting oneself is a powerful testament to the efficacy and power of capitalism.

Inherited capital is indeed landing on the chance card, and it is indeed often wildly unfair bullshit, but those people did not choose to be born rich, ergo their lives in a wealthy family or dynasty are not inherently at fault.

>>134522145
See this shit? This is what happens when you make an ideology with all the grace and sophistication of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. People start thinking self-actualization happens AFTER you bust your ass putting food on the table and fighting the barbarians at the gates and not during.
I would never want to live in a Communist success.
Shit, I'd take suffering another Communist failure before I'd be content with the goal of Communism.
You people are fucking freaks. At least when a fascist kills you he's got the decency to make sure you die after, a Commie'll end your life and then have you live out the rest of your days.

>>134522625
Oh and who does all the jobs nobody wants to do? You know why would I do a shitty job if I have universal basic income and doing a shitty job doesn't pay me anything?

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>>134518448
Neck yourself, faggot

>>134522989
My job won't be automated until we have fully automous humanoid robots, I reckon that's atleast 50 years away yeah we can automate factories but what about everything else?

>>134522804
I completely get you famalam. I just feel you have to try and keep your argument as Sharpe as you can, you never know when you might encounter a maxian argument in real life and need to shoot it down as effectively and quickly as possible.

>>134522517
All competition is valid but not necessary.

>>134522630
The same ol invisible hand will sort it out.

Capitalism = source of all degeneracy

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>>134518448
>Throughout history it can be seen that capitalism is against anything that helps alleviate human suffering unless there is profit to be earned.

You got any facts to back up your claims?
Capitalism does not benefit everyone equally but it does benefit everyone. Since the spread of capitalism we have become more free, more healthy, more wealthy than any other time in history. But capitalism does help the smartest first and most. But even the poorest amongst us benefit.

Is there something better? If there is we haven't found it yet.

Are you cunts fucking retarded? We don't have a free market system or a socialist system in a pure form, we have fucking both. A mixed economy. Like most standard countries. We try to have a balance.

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>>134518448
>Capitalism is so worse that it even justifies the degradation of environment for profit
>>Be member of board of directors
>>Attend Annual General Meeting once a year in a 5 star hotel with 3 high end hookers on top
>>All porky capitalist directors decide to dump pollutants in local lake because it saves money
>>Local employees and their families suffer due to polluted surroundings
>>Meanwhile Porky is fucking Thai traps in high end Bangkok hotel
>implying commies wont degrade environment as well
btw; "Wasn't real communism." isn't an argument.

>>134519099
HURR DURR WHITEYS TO FIX THE PRIVELAGE GOY!

>>134523203
>Unironically using smith
Cmon dude even the Austrians gave up on him over a century ago. We are indebtes to the classical economist but using them for policy is like going to a witch doctor instead of a clinic.

>>134518825
>>>134518448 (OP)

>Capitalism decentralizes authority over the economy.

So capitalism give power to the very rich ppl.


Also it's not the only system that ever worked, but it's definitely the only system that require the biggest army men ever created, the biggest military alliance ever conceived, CONSTANT war and constant financial pressure on anyone opposing the petrodollar just to survive.

>>134523070
>Maslow
:*)

>>134523107
Robots do the fucking job, you retard. You just sit back, chill, wank and do whatever the fuck you want with your life. I might make another thread after this one explaining how will a completely automated earth would work.
Spoiler: Government will be automated too ;)

>>134523136
What do you do?

>>134523159
For the lover of god, I ain't a Marxist cuz I don't have anything to do with equality. I just want every job to be automated

>>134519490
Better than jacking off to BLACKED like you.

>>134518448

>>134518448
Seeing as it seems you want to have an actual discussion I'll bite.
Lets start off with why I think you still haven't justified why you think communism/"left anarchism" is good, better than Capitalism.

Most of your arguments such as "how is that justified? How can a system reward someone for doing nothing", is a criticism of Capitalism not an argument for a socialist-communist government. So rather than making actual arguments your whole premise for this discussion is that you think capitalism is bad because you think you have found examples of where it hasn't been so successful.

Communism in it's purest from, the "means of production" owned by the workers themselves, usually meaning an equal distribution of resources, including food, water, electricity, money, and other assets (like cars for example).
Fine, sounds good, tell me if you disagree. This is a generalisation of what communism aims for.

So what is the issue? Well, the issue is who gets to decide how to distribute the resources, and what is the limit of these resources? Someone has to set limits for the entire population for a "fair share". What does this mean? there has to be a static line for what people get regardless of what is available. An authority has to enforce this otherwise you would have a rampart society where the strong would pray on the weak and you would be back to the stone age.
So the authority has distribute the resources to everyone. What happens when there isn't enough of this resource (food for example)?
People go hungry. How do you prevent these people from revolting? A strong military force controlled directly by the authority.
What is the strongest way to do that? A direct figure akin to a general that can take immediate action if required.

So inevitably, a communist system becomes oppressive when resources become sparse. "Communism/socialism only works so long as there is someone elses money (resources) to spend". Continued...

>>134518448
>he still thinks capitalism=corporatism

>>134523474
What other system didn't have war?

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>>134518448
Capitalism is the only system where being productive for others is usually better for you than being a shitty human.

Every other system produces less. Every argument for a different system focuses on the extra waste and inequality capitalism produces, but not the extra food and shoes.

>>134523474
>Communist countries never required warfare or large miliataries to survive
Also I love how marxist kick and screech "NOT TROO GOMMUNISM" but put the blame of state actors on capitalism. Because the federal reserve backed by the US gov persuing US interest overseas is "Capitalism" accorsing to these deranged idiots.

>>134518448

communists must die. there is no use arguing with them.

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Alright Commie, Under your shitty ideology
Who will build the roads?
whats stopping warlords?
Whats stopping recreational nukes?
Whats stopping animal abuse?
Whats stopping you from starving to death?

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Wall-E is pretty redpilled cartoon

>>134523496
>Robots do the fucking job, you retard

No they don't you retard, as evidenced by the fact that they are NOT doing the work right now, despite being cheaper than human workers. Does it not get into your head you stupid communist? You can't just automate everything magically, or we already would have done so a long time ago, moron.

>>134523496
Construction, not typical though I have to get into tight spaces, climb things and fiddle with complicated tasks a drone or machine just couldn't do yet. A humanoid robot with all the capabilities of a person could do it but even then I think there would still need to be a human to check the work and make sure everything is right. For the forseable future a human will always have to be involved in what I do even if robots help

>>134522989

McD managed to partially automate one part of the most simple parts of the value stream ( the ordering and paying) *some* of its franchises.

Have you read any material in regards to optimising manufacturing processes?


http://www.leanblog.org/2016/06/gms-ceo-roger-smith-thought-toyota-had-magic-but-this-was-the-secret/


It's hard it really only works in very stable unchanging industries and even then only in the most simplistic areas of them.

>>134518448
Just get some capital. Really bro you sound like the kind of person who went to college for 4 years, went into a bunch of debt, and then came out and the only job you could get was flipping burgers. It's not the system's fault that you're a failure

>>134522882
>>>134518448 (OP)
>>capitalism only benefits those who have capital
>Literally created the highest living standards in the history of the world, for 3 separate classes.
>>>Never work for day in life
>Isn't that the dream of all commie faggots anyway? So why are you blasted
>>Is it productive for society? In a capitalist economy, yes. Stay in school faggot.

It wasn't capitalism who created the highest standards for 3 classes, it was science and engineering. And Americans using their military and financial power to enslave and steal resources from 3rd world countries.

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>>134518448

>commies too lazy to even properly photoshop their "memes"

The benefit of capitalism is that you "people" will never gain enough capital to support a family, thereby removing you from the gene pool.

>>134523638
As mentioned earlier out of words of Marx hinself you cannot deviate from proletariate "facts" anyanything else is just a porky justification. How he maintaine while being bankrolled by an actual factory owner is unknown.

>>134523404
I got no love for communism either. Read my other replies while you're here. Enjoy your stay

>>134518448
Capitalism is good if you are a doctor, engineer, pilot, productive individual in short. Dont see those complaining. Smart people do well in capitalism. Productive people also do well in capitalism. Everyone of any worth does well in capitalism.

Who is doing all the complaining? Unproductive people. People without marketable skills. Art school graduates. Underwater basket weaving studies graduates. Low iq people. People who deserved their poverty anyway. People who if left in a jungle to their own devices, would probably be even poorer.

Capitalism works. Capitalism is glorious, rewarding, just, equal, and it works.

>>134523750
Science and medicine that was allowed to flourish under *gasp* capitalist conditions, and only made advancemants in capitalist socities?!?! Benito please go get shot at a G8 meeting.

>>134523719
>>>134522989
>McD managed to partially automate one part of the most simple parts of the value stream ( the ordering and paying) *some* of its franchises.
>Have you read any material in regards to optimising manufacturing processes?
>http://www.leanblog.org/2016/06/gms-ceo-roger-smith-thought-toyota-had-magic-but-this-was-the-secret/
>It's hard it really only works in very stable unchanging industries and even then only in the most simplistic areas of them.

We are lagging behind automation because in a capitalistic system it WILL FUCK the economy BADLY.

>>134523496
>For the lover of god, I ain't a Marxist cuz I don't have anything to do with equality. I just want every job to be automated


*every* job? Have you ever had a job?

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government has nothing to say about someone who earned 100mil

that person earned it fairly

not everyone is a cmmy jew who snakes tax money

many peolpe earn it
unlike elno musk who is a tax parasite

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>>134518448
Staff Sergeant Kurt Hummel, Military Post Number L 31 605 Lg Pa. Paris, to his local group

Northern Russia, 12 August 1941

Bolshevist conditions are indescribable. I had never imagined that such misery was possible. People here know nothing about electric lights, radio, newspapers and the like. One can't call what they live in houses. There are only shanties with rotten straw roofs. Huge neglected fields lay around. We haven't yet found even a small shop. This is what people call the Soviet paradise. I wish the few outsiders who still remain in Germany could be shipped here. There is misery wherever one looks. One has to see it to realize how beautiful Germany is.

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>>134518448
Soldier Heinrich Stähr tells his work mates at the Hamburg Hochbahn A. G. about conditions frequently mentioned in other letters as well:

The roads. We in the infantry are probably the best judge of good and bad roads, since we have to march for kilometer after kilometer on them. Here too the Soviets haven't lifted a finger. The main roads are no better than field paths. Believe me, my dear comrades, the soldiers have had many a justifiable curse after marching 40 or 50 kilometers on such a road. Besides, it is 30-35 degrees C. in the shade, and huge clouds of dust make it almost impossible to breathe. Swamps, forests, and bad roads make military action unpleasant, but we keep moving forward.

>>134523909
He thinks the invisible hand is a valid economic concept and not a thought expiremet. In short his view on economics is literally a flawed understanding of an 18th century economist he probably never read.

>>134523885
>>>134523750 (You)
>Science and medicine that was allowed to flourish under *gasp* capitalist conditions, and only made advancemants in capitalist socities?!?! Benito please go get shot at a G8 meeting.

The USSR had same level of scientific and engineering.

If anything, capitalism slows the research because of lack of funds.

>>134523540
The next issue.
>automation
I see many people arguing that when/if fully automated industry and developed is invented, that we will need communism to pay for the people that are jobless.
I disagree. Automation is a great tool, but it also requires people to develop and create the systems. At the moment, there is no software that can create automated robotics the way an experienced developer for. Sure you can automate the development of a website or automate the development of a financial application. But the problem of developing an Automated system is exponential (with the exception of a neural net). The more tasks and complexities there are in a process, the more the development time and resources required.

Okay so a neural net and more importantly a deep neural net solves part of the exponential issue. But, you can still only train one neural net to perform a couple of functions at a time. Which means for two tasks that are completely different, you need two neural nets. This brings me to the next technology. Which is the development of a "general" AI.
That is, an AI that can be trained to perform a massive variety of tasks. Some people think deep neural nets might be part of the answer. But even those require maintenance to their systems that can't be automated.
Which many people suspect that there still a missing discovery to make a general AI possible.

So if a general AI is created, do we need communism?
I would say, only in an extreme case would we need some social welfare programs. Full communism where everything is "equal", no.
Social welfare does not mean that the system is communist.
The extreme circumstance, in my mind would be that no one can find any use for themselves and they start committing mass suicide or we need payments for people that need food. Much like we have in Australia now, but on a larger scale.
This is a big IF, it happens.

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>>134518448
Medical corporal Paul Lenz, Military Post Number 7 14 628 Posen, to the local group of the NSDAP, Arneburg:

Only a Jew can be a Bolshevist; for these bloodsuckers there is nothing better to be, for there is then nothing to stop them. Wherever one spits there is a Jew, whether in a city or a village. As far as I know (we asked the people, wanting to know the truth) not a single Jew ever worked in the workers' paradise. Even the smallest bloodsucker had a post with big privileges. He lived in the best buildings, if one can call them buildings. The real workers lived in small buildings, or better, in animal stalls, just like day laborers in old Russia. It makes no difference whether one is in a village or in a city like Minsk with over 300,000 inhabitants, the stalls are everywhere. Even before the war, most workers knew nothing but hunger, misery and slavery. Some may be interested to know that there were theaters, operas, etc., even big buildings for them, but only those with money got in, and they were the blood suckers and their lackeys.

>>134518517
fpbp

Because its the best system we have

>>134523842
>implying
Most of STEM is full motherfucker. Salaries havent risen for 20 years ergo the supply is bigger than demand. Engineers in particular ARENT needed, most grads are desperate for a job around the world because companies arent in dire need of bright individuals

I bet you dont even have a degree in STEM or study one. If you had you would know that influx of STEM grads hurts us thanks to capitalism

>>134524029
but 1800s made usa great with no regulation
ended salvery and child labor
but ah u dont know u hate books right?

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>>134518448
Soldier Walter Sperath writes to the [NSDAP] county office Hamburg 6

Everything I have seen of the so-called workers' paradise is everything but lovely. One should send every citizen who even slightly criticizes our efforts here. He would thank the Führer and the movement that these conditions are not found in our Fatherland. Animals by us live in better conditions than the people here. Our successes so far have been great, and we will not stop until we have rooted out this evil root and branch, which will be a blessing for European culture and humanity.

>>134524056
Haha are retarded? The same USSR that thought it scientifcally feasible to make a desert into a "workers paradise" and drained an ocean in the progress. The same USSR that was so technologilly behind the west their military equipment was never on par to western counter parts. This is what I mean when I say stupidity is hard coded into marxism. If daddy marx doesnt approve its just a class traitor fact and ia not to be believed!

Only people bitching about inheritance are retards who had shitty ancestors (so chances are they are shit too).

>>134518448
>As the name suggests, capitalism only benefits those who have capital
Uh, no.

>>134524056
not even close
USSR stole all theri engineering from USA via spy

slows research? you soudn liek you beleive the governmetn ever produced anything

the net was made by companies who took protocalls rotting on shlef and made them viable with mdoern ahrdware you fucking dumb fuck

1800s usa from nothgin to no1
gov spending 1% GDP
ended slavery n child labor

USA need to go back to 1% GDP = total gov spending including states
end 99% regulations
erase case law
ban private law firms mae judge liek DMV

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>>134518448
Flyer W. M., Res.-Lazarett Salzlwedel to his Cell Leader Schroeder

I have seen the "wonderful workers' paradise" in the Soviet Union with all its terrible misery, and wish that those who thought differently could spend a few weeks here to see and experience what we have. The misery and horror of Bolshevism is terrible.

I hope that volunteering for our proud army may atone for my earlier sins, and that when I am back home, you, dear party member, will accept me as an honest person. In that hope, I send you my warmest greetings.

Heil Hitler!

signed W. M.

>>134523900


Automation is a huge investment even when you know exactly how to do it you have to have that money to invest in it *and* be sure that you will get that investment back. How are you going to justify a £30,000 capping machine that will need 4 years to pay back that investment, when you aren't sure that the product will even be successful?

>>134524190
>18th century=1800's
I hate to call creitens like you countrymen.

>>134524255
woa tell more about drain an ocean to amek desert paraside loony idea

did they try that?
LOLZ

fukin commies so dumb

>>134524179
STEM in Europe is poor because taxes kill competition. In America, everyone is making bank, even codemonkeys with no degrees

Why don't you work and save up for enough capital yourself? Just because some people have it easier than you doesn't mean you have to be a whiny bitch.

>>134518448
It's not that capitalism is peachy, it's that everything else is worse.

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>>134518448
Corporal Otto Kien, Military Post Number 18, 756, to the Factory Leadership t the Conrad Scholtz Factory. Barmbeck

Russia, 8 August 1941

Anyone who earlier had different opinions of the Soviet Union is quickly cured of them here. The poverty is terrible. Not even the farmers have anything to eat. They beg from us. There are lice and filth everywhere. One has to be careful one doesn't get them from the inhabitants.

These people don't know anything else. They sit in their huts and remove lice from each other. They don't mind if anyone watches. I've had my fill of this workers' paradise. We'll be glad to be out of here. In the past we saw pictures of malnourished children. They were not exaggerated. One can't believe it if one hasn't been here.

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>>134518448
Through my entire higher education, all 10 semesters of electrical engineering, I have come to learn, that reality is complex as fuck, and anyone claiming to have an answer to anything above theoretical exercises is either an idiot or lying.

In my field of work, we work under the idea of "narrowband approximations". Our theory works, because we focus it in on a small part of a highly complex system, and basically say "fuck the rest". Socialism / communism is much the same. In principle, a family is small scale socialism or communism, depending on the family's economic structure. The parents work and pool the resources together, to support themselves and their kids, with varying degrees of hierarchical structure. It works because we're talking about two to maybe four fucking people. Collectives of 10 - 17 something people may also work, for the same exact reasons. These small groups can easily homogenize and come to agreements on aspects such as economic value, risk-taking, work distribution, wealth distribution, etc. as they are EXACTLY small groups build on a foundation of mutual trust.

Then comes the communists and socialist like AYO LETS DO THIS WITH ENTIRE NATIONS, OR GLOBALLY LEL. You then attempt to expand the central planning to affect millions of people, and allocate risk-taking to a SINGLE fucking entity. You, for example as a socialist leader, now take the complex economic system, in which previously value was determined on a fucking elementary / individual scale, and attempt to represent that with your own system. Do YOU think you can accurately describe such a system, or improve upon it, with solutions as simple as "rich people pay more lmao"? If you do, you're either lying or an idiot.

This is why I support capitalism, and why it will ALWAYS be the foundation, on which other systems can survive. Denmark not is a rich or happy country, because of fucking welfare. The people may say so, but what enables welfare, is free market capitalism.

>>134524395
hmm well adam smith was the econmoist in 1700s but 1800s saw his idea implemented after slow start in late 1700s
so we both right

>Posting wartimes photos and stories

>>134520367
Nazbol is an oxymoron

>>134518448

The systems doesn't reward someone for doing nothing. Someone had to generate that 100 million.

The problem is, bizarrely, that you approach the world as if everyone and everything is an independent, disconnected unit.

That's not how it works - We are all unionized, biologically, racially, nationally - whatever alignment you so choose.

That person who inherited 100 million didn't inherit it by chance - They inherited because an ancestor or forefather took the time to accumulate the wealth so that he could pass it on to his offspring for them to build with.

There are different ways to ensure this just doesn't turn into landed gentry - Estate taxes, for instance, that encourage people not to simply sit on the wealth (lest it be taxed) but reinvest it into the economy.

Anway, that wage cuck should use his 70,000 to purchase a one million dollar proeprty, and put his kid into college so that his child can purchase 3 one million dollar properties and earn 140,000 a year and so on, until 4 or 5 generations down the track, one of his kids can put 14 mil in a bank and earn 70k interest.

Anyway, capitalism necessarily has winners and losers.

It's darwinian.

But it produces a higher standard of living for all.

Anti-capitalist models basically reduce everyone to shit.

There is also nothing unfair about capitalism - That's simply an excuse made by the weak, lazy and stupid.

Communism is unfair, because it relies on forcing people to occupy roles, rather than people occupying those roles based on merit.

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>>134518448
Corporal J. F., Military Post Number 26,280 to his Local Group

In the Field, 3.8.41

What we have seen of the so-called Soviet paradise is worse than we ever imagined. Anyone back home who still has any doubts should come here. All his doubts will disappear. Everywhere we go, the people are happy to be freed from Bolshevism, and looks to the future with confidence. We soldiers can say to those back home that he [Hitler] saved Germany and all of Europe from the Red Army. The battle is hard, but we know what we are fighting for, and, confident of the Führer, we will win. In the hopes of a victorious return,

Heil Hitler
Corporal J. F.

>>134524414
Yet our corporate tax is lower around here

>>134524520
Good post
>when you have political epiphanies while studying physics
I know that feel

>>134518448
BTW, what alternative do you want? Since not communism, then what?

>>134523540
>>134524117
I bet the communists won't even reply.

>>134518448
capitalism should not be replaced but highly restricted for the benefit of the nation.

>>134524525
We're sorry your grandmother was raped into a mindbroken slut, but dont vent your rage by shitposting here.

>>134518448
Capitalism allows autonomy and individualism.

I like the concept of more socialism but it CANNOT exist in any modern society. You need a nationalistic, fascistic, small-population society to have socialism on a mass scale.

To continue to propose the loss of individual rights in any modern society is insane and will only lead to collapse and suffering for all. You can't keep importing millions of people into countries, having the living population pay for housing, food, education, entertainment, etc... And expect the living population to be okay with this. It is going to cause problems.

And your claim about innovations being driven by good-spirit is highly ironic as you post on the internet. Even if you ignore Tim at Bell Labs, you can easily look at the military and realise they weren't using ARPANET to better humanity, but to better their own operations.

>>134524653
But America has a million loopholes for STEM companies, so they never pay the standard rate

>>134523756
>>134523540
>Communism
I'm not a communist. I just want to see an automated (including automated government) economy where everyone has access to everything and ownership to nothing. Like Uber (I know it's more like a rental system but it's one step closer). If you want to research more about what I'm talking about look up "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward" on YouTube

>>134523569
Read the previous replies first

>>134523606
Yup what I'm proposing isn't tried before ever because we didn't have the technology to automate everything

>>134523617
>Sit down on desk
>Write move some money around
>Get intrest
>Make boss porky happy
>Profit
How did it help the poor in your country?

>Automated bots will
>Who created them in first place under what system?
>Who is creating them?
>Thousands of animals are born to be slaughtered in factories then advocate animal abuse
>Fellow farmer who is being duped by Jews

>>134523689
Only thing stopping it is people who are scared about losing jobs

>>134523710
You can fucking 3D print houses if you want these days. Prototypes are already in making

>>134523719
It's not working because people aren't letting it work. There are so many wimps scared for their jobs.

>>134523756
>>134523732
Read the previous replies

>>134524711
>You can fucking 3D print houses if you want these days
Why doesn't Venezuela do it if it's so easy?

>>134524522
>econmoist

He was a Moral Philosopher.

>>134524760
and the first economist

remember uk lost both world wars
usa saved them

>>134524616
People seem to think capitalism is built off hyper individalism, when in actuallity capitalism supports, and could not exist without social cooperation. Capitalist are just willing to respect the role of the individual in this process.

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>>134524689
>/pol/tards believe that soviets raped everything they saw and every eastern european is soviet rapebaby

xd

>>134524711
>>Only thing stopping it is people who are scared about losing jobs

Okay so you are a retard, gotcha.

>>134524842
Russian*

>>134524525
You're welcome.
Here's a little documentary about that war:

https://youtu.be/rfECPYfLRfQ

And here's a film about some people who actually cared about the working class:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8oTIwpci44

>>134519922
>What incentive are you getting by defending capitalism?
not dying in a horrific famine or political purge

>>134518448
I'll bite

>How is that justified? How can a system reward someone for doing nothing

Somewhere down the line, somebody worked for those labour points, which they likely intended to be passed to their children/relatives. It's their own private property and they may do with it as they choose.

>wagecucks getting $70,000
Their job is worth what the market will pay for it- more abailable workers will mean lower wages generally

>>Capitalist Porky puts $14 mill in bank as fixed deposit which he inherited from daddy porky
>>Collects interest $70,000 per year
>Is it productive for society?

In a way, yes. Banks produce interest by taking stored money and investing it elsewhere for profit. This means they give money to businesses to grow. Growing business means more goods/services and jobs for society.

>environmental concerns
government regulations, or even consumer boycotts could put this to rest, as well as ethical business being good for company image.

>Inventions for the good of humanity
Hopefully this point is bait. Somebody who wants to make the world a better place with their invention can sell it, and thus make the profits to make more, AND have money as an incentive. In communism, there is no competition, meaning innovation is stifled as it relies even more heavily on altruism than capitalism already does.

I apologise for any fucky formatting or typos, first time attempting a somewhat legthy response

>>134524760
He came at a time when economics as a science wasnt fully realized, putting him in a weird in-between. His ideas are no longer close to valid (funny considering the economic aspects of marxism are built around him), but his groundwork was essential.

>>134524711
>It's not working because people aren't letting it work. There are so many wimps scared for their jobs.


I work in production facility that has been moving from R+D to production, automation has been tried many times both in concept and theory, the only things it worked on have been the most incredibly simple repetitive tasks. Even there the robot is flakey as hell and needs constant human supervision and maintenance.

>>134524888
thre is no such thing as class

>>134524842
>Russification was never a thing
Why is an American lecturing you about your countries history

>>134525020
i never claimed it wasn't

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stop

>>134524711
Doesn't matter that we can 3D print a house, how does that help us maintain buildings that are already here? For a long long time people are going to be involved, I can definitely see uses for machines and robots in my job is love to have a robot labourer who fetches all my stuff and does all the heavy lifting

Mixed economies are the best economies.

>>134524807
>First economist

I mean in retrospect you could get away with describing him as such, it's an over simplification but not an egregious one.

>>134525054
Can you please rape the poster above you so he can feel Stalin's "workers paradise" in his lifetime.

>>134525011
There wouldn't be if we had won. People would no longer ask "which class are you from", they would ask: "what are you?" and the answer would be "I am a German".

>>134525095
nah
pure capitalism 1800s usa best economy adn hong kong close too
singapore as well
socialism is poison and you get sicker with more
take no poinson get massive comfy plenty
end slveyr n child labro too!

>>134519028
They did nothing productive? They saved up capital and invested it. You could do that too if you actually had any willpower or forethought for the future.

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>These are the people who want to "make 4chan liberal"
Plebbit, /leftypol/, it doesn't matter.

>>134525182
I wonder..........I wonder what woulda happened if usa had left germany to rule europe

>>134524711
>I want to see an automated government and economy
That's not a left wing view?
I'm not sure why you're painting yourself as a left anarchist.

An automated government would be stupid. Being a politician or a successful government involves understanding people and their social behavior.
I'm not sure what you mean by an automated economy? You mentioned Uber, but that's due to a result in someone capitalising on the application market, a result of captitalism?
Do you mean automated management of the Economy? Because in most cases the people selling and buying things is, on a basic level, how the economy is managed (obviously it is more complex than this).
I will look at the Youtube video later.

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>Working class votes for a man who promises to bring back jobs instead of a candidate who snubs them
>Hurrr let's attack the working class because they be fascists n' sheeeeit

>>134519028
Ahaha this faggot doesnt even understand Smith and yet he thinks "capitalism is obsolete". Go read and stop watching meme videos you dumb shit

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Remember the "man" behind this OP, /pol/.

>>134525230
It would have been paradise.

>>134525126
uh no thanks, balts are ugly

>>134524402
>>134523842
>>134523900
>>134523885
>>134523987
>>134524012
>>134524319
>>134524290
>>134524364
>>134524520
>>134524616
>>134524674
>>134524678
>>134524685
>>134524698

Read my previous replies
Capitalism has lived past it's utility. Right now it's kill all the innovations which can decrease
the profit by even a dollar.

>>134523900
Only because it'll render people jobless. That's why we need universal income.

>>134523909
>Intern at Bombay Stock Exchange
>Working in the heart of capitalism

>>134524438
Bitch I can thrive in a forest if I have to. I don't give a fuck about what others do and how much money that have. I'm advocating how current capitalistic structure is detrimental to the whole planet.

>>134524453
Yeah but we can reduce the damage. Now can't we?

>>134518448
Capitalism is comfy af desu

Only in capitalism can I get a simple freelance programming job and make $60,000 a year from my apartment

>the poor
We should take care of the deserving poor, not subsidizing jamal and shaniqua to have 10 children.

>>134525331
I cant say I agree with your methods, but every ally against Marxist destruction is a welcome one.

>>134524957
After reading Wealth of Nations I think Smith is still more right than wrong, if the average man was as wrong as Smith was we would be in pretty good shape.

You are right about Marx though, he does read a little like a fan fiction of Adam Smith, by someone who desperately wanted to write his own version of the Wealth of Nations, but who's talent and humility came up woefully short in comparison.

>>134525331
proably true
why not make germany great again
who is new hitler?

>>134525265
the working class from day 1 has not supported marxist ideals
the people marxists claim to support are conservative and always have been
at which point you put 1 and 1 together and realize marxism has never been a working class movement, it's been an upper class movement maintained and started by intellectuals
and the working class are the people they manipulate into believing they should support marxism, by putting jobs or justice or money on the end of the fishing rod

>>134525366
>Read my previous replies
I don't care about efficiency or profit you fucking ant, capitalism is a blessing of personal freedom.

>>134525366
Ah yes Ill take the musings of a man who cant even understand Smith correctly. A true genius of our age (funny you use the word utility, a concept invented by Austrian capitalist thinkers)

>>134525366
>>>134523909(You)
>>Intern at Bombay Stock Exchange
>>Working in the heart of capitalism

Have you given up the argument then?

>>134525366
I read your previous replies.
Again, making a statement like
>right now it's killing all innovations
Is assuming that's true?
I'm not sure who you are, but why do you get to make a statement like that?
What knowledge of things have you been bestowed on, that allows you to make the ultimatum?
>Capitalism has lived past its utility
Why? How?
Who?
When?
Where?
(etc)
Basic questions that they teach you in primary school that everyone should ask themselves.
I've got to go contribute to the success of the capitalist system.

>>134525366
what do you mean
?
lived past its utility?
capitalism is the unknown ideal
ayn rand was always right
youtube yaron brook
and hans hermann hoppe
when usa had mostly captialism in 1800s went from NOTHIGN to no1
0 to BEST!!
in jsut 100 years!!
no regulation
no welfare
few laws
no expensive lawyers n judges fuking everything
jsut property rights and other indivudal rights and fre trade!
ended slavery n child labor in process
u idiot
1900s were toal fail of war and depresison s comapred to 1800s
1800s were IDEAL
hong kong only other palce did as pure capitalism
and only equal to USA!!
rememebr japs n germany owe USA trillion n trillion in tek patenets and defense!
USA should OWN japan and germany!
hek canada n mixoco too

>>134524711
>>economy where everyone has access to everything and ownership to nothing.
Everyone should get equal access to your ass fuckboi

>>134525478
I'd reccomend checking out the Austrians. After the conceptualization of utility by ....Gah I cant remember his name, though a google search would find it, a lot of Smith era concepts became woefully obselete. Inclusing Marxian economics.

>>134525483
It'll take some big economic crisis or civil unrest to wake people up. Right now the current government has too much of a grip on society.
Luckily their with immigration policy they are weakening themselves. The big question is if this will destroy the state before it destroys the nation.

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>>134524128
>>134524210
>>134524364
The feels hurt so much

Germany should have won WW2

>>134525366
So you want post-scarcity society? Well, everybody wants it. Too bad we have to have something before we get there.

>>134525679
Also it would be rude to not reccomend some books. Economics in One Lesson by Hazlitt is an excellent primer, along with road to serfdom by Hayek. Socialism by Von Mises is far more complex bug butt blasted communist so much they still cant refute it. If you're feeling brave "Man State and Economy" by Rothbard and "Human Action" by Mises will give you a full rundown. All of those should be availble as free PDF's by the Mises Institute.

>>134521566
hahahaha, you think humans exist outside nature. what a dolt

>>134524711
>economy where everyone has access to everything and ownership to nothing
That means there's no such thing as theft in this magical marxist utopia you're speaking of.
There has to be some sort of ownership for theft to exist.

>>134525752
I hope a strong leader arises!!

I heard natiional socialism massive econmoic success hidden by jews because it is so powerful they cant crack it so had to bring all rest of world agaisnt ti before it proved them wrong

>>134525941
youtube yaron brook
done

>>134525962
The economic success isn't hidden all that much, in school we learned that that success is how Hitler "tricked" the people into following him.

>>134525679
I've read a chunk of Hayek, Mises and the like, don;t get me wrong Smith has been surpassed in areas, but he really is still worth reading and not just in a historical curio way. I would start reading economics with Smith though, fuck that.

>>134525423
>>134525766

Heil!
\o

>>134519028
It's not capitalism that's the problem you commie bastard. With a decent legal framework to provide a level playing field for corporations and to protect the people it can provide a healthy climate. The problem is the jews that manipulate the system and exploit every resource they can. Government should have one primary job, and that is to radically enforce this legal framework. They need to fix the rules and crack down hard on corporations and individuals exploiting others for personal gain.
I agree that the fat rich pigs who are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and are responsible for the misery of so many people need to be hanged, but it's not an argument against capitalism.

>>134526085
Yea starting with Smith is like going to the gym for the first time and deadlifting your bodyweight. Youll just be left mangled and confused.

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>>134526083
Organizing a team to move forward not whine liek niggers n jews would be scary econmic machine

>>134525546
No

>>134518448
All that shit. Not worth a goddamn thing. Congrats, it's a Nigger!

>>134526083
>success is how Hitler "tricked" the people into following him
i guess my favorite sports teams just tricked me into liking them because they won a lot of games. sheeeiiit.

>>134526183
capitalism causes explosive wealth creation

only national socialism or monarchy could come close and those with whtie population

i mean look at usa in 1800s

a wilderness to no1 in everything

>>134524753
Capitalism... No money. No house

>>134524950
>>134524896
Read previous replies

>>134525000
Your R&D isn't getting paid well

>>134525065
Tear those fuckers down while making new one with what we have. Then recycle the scrap to make new ones.

>>134525095
Consumption based economies are worst economies

>>134525192
At this point in time, Capitalism is killing all the innovations which are not profitable but good for increasing the overall quality of life. I have no problem accumulating wealth and I'm doing it as we speak.

>>134526360
I tricked your mom n sister.

>>134526265
Is no an argument?

>>134526399
>>>134525000(You)
>Your R&D isn't getting paid well

What do you mean?

>>134526183
this.

Capitalism with fixed maximum amount of money individual can have would be much better. Rich and especially thier spoiled kids are whats wrong with this world.

>>134526399
capitalism allows all the innovation governmetn goons block because it would obsolete their shit

you fool

>>134526219
I do quite like Bastiat though, as far as classical economists go, he really is a funny fucker.

http://bastiat.org/en/petition.html

>>134526532
fuk you
rich make world comfy by building cool shit
u lucky they thre to offer you cool shit
u fuckhead
governemtn fucks everything

>>134526532
Rich aren't the problem. The fact that they can gain money not by either working or providing work is the problem.

>>134526628
>http://bastiat.org/en/petition.html
oh hes outstanding
I wish school wasnt so brain dead
basiast
say
hoppe
rand
yaron brook
von mises
all those books wre missing in my UCLA econ degree
all keynesian lies

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>>134518448
do you think with my limited time on earth that i have the time or irrationality to give one infinitesimal shit about the environment or suffering that isn't my own?

>>134526628
The classical economist were basically the shitposters of their time. Too bad such smug economics wont exist again.

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ok heres my opinion
socialism is beneficial once a working economy has already been established. in many sectors of the economy it can provide better services than a private counterpart. Capitalism relies on the principle of profit maximization, while state services ideally rely on only the principle of how to best serve the people.
this means things like for example healthcare and insurance, are more effectively provided by the state. ie if an insurance company is not looking to make money it will ensure that all funds paid into the system get paid back out again, rather than taking a cut as profit.
Healthcare and health research, when provided by the state, no longer have the condition that medications must be profitable. if an unprofitable new medication that can completely eradicate a disease is discovered, a private corporation will have no reason to eradicate it, profits-wise. the state, however, would economically benefit from the eradication of a disease.
>bottom line is basically government can do things better than private companies because they dont need to make profits.
another aspect, regulation of private companies, can be greatly beneficial.
when a company has accrued enough capital, it has the freedom to exploit the people of a nation, and the environment, and generally make more profits for themselves at the detriment of the nation as a whole. Regulation would prevent this detriment to the general public. here i will address the elephant in the room and talk about consumer culture.
Culture is a very important aspect of a nation, it affects social cohesion, work ethic, the arts, and a vast swath of other factors, together greatly affecting general wellbeing. Current capitalistic systems have created profit motives to remove cultural aspects of a nation (ie the destruction of culture in the west) and replace it with a consumer culture which fosters more buying and more profits for the private company. CONT.

>>134526773
They do this through psychological marketing campaigns (edward bernays), which have been occurring since the 19th century, eventually leading us down the path we have gone today: left with very little cultural connection. Capitalism is inherently materialistic, which fosters a materialistic culture, atheism and degeneracy. On top of this, once a corporation has grown in enough power to become a multinational corporation, it becomes ideal to 'homogenize' the world economically and culturally (and ethnically), ie modern globalism.
>overall, regulation of the private company is common sense when you understand the detriment to the nation that comes from concentrated power in the hands of the materialistic, the one who has no national ties, the one who cares for the wellbeing of no one but themselves, the kind of person that thrives in free capitalistic states.
and not to mention the disaster that private currency control has been. In terms of currency i would take it a step further and demand that currency is controlled directly by the government by members voted into the positions. when currency is issued for the benefit of the people then a large portion of the negatives of capitalism are eliminated, including (but not limited to) the banks stranglehold on the economy through debt. nationalization of the banks is a socialistic policy i think we can all get behind.

>>134526637
money fairly earned can be invested
the problem is we have fed
in free market saving interest rate be liek 20% or more
capitalsits would be hungery for fresh captial to go produce new shit and compete
governemtn wouldnt be licensing blocking regualting resticing contrling action
you could jsut go do it
as long as dont steal nad live up to contract
no feminist laws
no domesti cvilomence non obejctive laws
no baby layment or laimony
no welfare
none of that bullshti
jsut massive free market

>>134526725
if you mean keyneians yeah
but classical liberals were best and still relevant
never disproven

>>134526773
ok so why does socailism alway fail

and capitalism in 1800s made usa no1?
greatest econmoic grwoth ever?

>>134526333
>>134525384
Read my previous replies

>>134525486
>Go to work on specified time
>Do only what you're told
>Eat only what you can afford
>Can't take vacation whenever you feel like
>Personal freedom

Kek

>>134525644
>>134525651

Read again. I didn't say all innovation. I said "Innovation which can decrease profitability of business yet increase the standard of life"
>rest of questions
It'll take whole day to answer that. Look up "Zeitgeist:Moving Forward" on YouTube. It'll help you understand what I'm trying to advocate here.

>>134525672
>>>/lgbt/

>>134525851
This isn't post scarcity society. We're living in a society where scarcity is artificially created.

>>134525954
>Thinks humans haven't controlled nature before

>>134525956
It's possible if everything is automated including the government

>>134526183
What's it with you people and your repetitive mundane jobs? Why can't you just let it go for a post-scarcity society? Let the automation happen.

>>134526637
yes and no. it's much better to have a lot of medium businesses than one big.

>>134526629
>rich make world comfy by building cool shit

Like what? Shitty, modern, minimalistic commie blocks for which i have to pay at least double thier worth?

>>134526773
>>134526792
fucking hell why does my flag always reset to geographic location

>>134526902
>why does socailism alway fail
1933-1945 germany
>capitalism in 1800s made usa no1
yeah but capitalism in the 1900s made usa worst, and somehow EVEN worse in 2000s
>greatest econmoic grwoth ever?
economic growth isnt everything, and regardless capitalism logically progresses to monopolism, which is terrible for an economy

>>134526985
You know where the "commie" in commieblocks comes from friend? If not yet privy, it isnt capitalism

>>134527028
your mistake is 1900s usa is socialism with preditable resuult of endless wars daehts n eocnomic depresions
fed 1913 new deal etc etc

actually economic growth is everything

rest is chatter

>>134527177
t. kike materialist

>>134527028
You realize unemployment in Nazi Germany never fell below pre-depression weimer levels, and that working hours were drastically increased with an inverse dip in quality of working conditions? Also
>Aussie
>Dumb as shit
Spot the abbo! Spot the abbo!

>>134527215
"Guyz i hate materialism, I only hold a purely materialistic worldview"
Spot the abbo! Spot the abbo!

>>134526449
What I'm saying is that 90% of jobs in service sector are useless and provide nothing to economy. Right now we have jobs where people make money by rolling money around without putting it in a productive use. Also these jobs are pretty much useless in post-scarcity economy

>>134526567
Not if the government work for the corporates itself.

>>134526711
Then think about the environment you leave behind for your kids

>>134526773
Socialism only works if the citizens are low IQ turds who don't know how to make shit.

>>134527215
youtube yaron brook

what t? mean?

materialism is everything

will a fe wmore million I could shitpost wthout work and have busty playmates blwo me as I post n eat mcdonalds

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>>134527315
>think about the environment you leave behind for your kids
what kids again?

>>134527315
free markets would clean out the government caused useless jobs
every people son start a new firm ignoring the otehrs competition would be spectacular
inovation would race n roar

>>134526940
So what you're saying is that people not wanting to voluntarily work to make as many people as possible redundant and making ridiculous losses while at it is that way because it's artificial? Lmao
>>134526804
In general any kind of government intervention is detrimental to economy, because it artificially makes some businesses worth less or more than it really is. Government shouldn't create any kinds of incentives or deterrents because it simply cannot simulate the mind work of thousands (or even millions) of people. Economy isn't a machine to regulate.
>>134526985
Without corporationism everybody is free to contest the big businesses, but sometimes breaking big firms is a must.
>Like what?
Computers and software, cars, transportation, Internet, many others. If you're mad at lack of beauty today, somebody else is responsible for that.
>>134527177
In debt economy, yes. In an actual healthy economy, no.

>>134527413
youtube alex epstein
environemtn si comfy due to capitalism
thorium atomic lftr power sations safer than oil even would be all around if capitalism n free marekts allowed

>>134518448
>Inherit 100 mil
>system awards you for doing nothing

The system isn't rewarding you, it's rewarding whoever earned that 100mil to begin with. The ability to give your children a better life is the reason a lot of people work hard. Maybe they'll be able to pay for their kids college or help with the down payment on their kid's first mortgage. Very few people will be able to leave their children enough to set them up for life but for those who can, you can bet your ass that was a driving factor in their success. To quote Jay Z, "I can't wait to give this shit [money] to my children."

>>134527177
>Medical GDP rises by 2%
>It's good for economy
>Doesn't realize rise in GDP means people are buying more medical good and services
>Which means people are more sick than before

Same goes for all other sectors

Rich porky here, I think what you're really upset about is inheritance, as any unskilled person with a windfall of money loses it in 0-2 generations.

But moreso than chance, making money is based on merit, and inheritance is merely passing that wealth onto your progeny, like you do with your superior teachings/genetics.

So what you're really mad about, is that you're not good enough to cut it in a capitalist society. Anyway, gotta run, these ladyboys aren't gonna fuck themselves.

>>134527466
no economic grwoth is everything

free market are better than government control

I wil say tho that monarchy is superiro to democracy

and hitler liek monarchy cuold have grown germany to bigger economy than usa by now

see hand hermann hope democracy the god that failed

>>134527217
source? this conflicts greatly with my current knowledge of ns germany.

>>134527294
>"Guyz i hate materialism, I only hold a purely materialistic worldview"
absurd strawman that doesnt even make sense.
try again shlomo

>>134526773
>>134526792
>>134527315
>Socialism only works if the citizens are low IQ turds who don't know how to make shit
this is absurd, back this claim up with facts and evidence please.

>>134527347
>materialism is everything
shoo jew

>>134527479
i don't give a shit whether the environment is fine or not, it won't matter after i'm dead

>>134527590
>it won't matter after i'm dead
spotted the materialist jew

>>134527506
you dont understand economic growth

prices fall in free market for everything

things becoem plentiful

we get more n more luxury stuff

grwoth means all better off since mroe wealth created

everything mroe plentiful from mansions to compueter to food

>>134518448
>>Land on 'Chance'
>>Card says "You inherit $100 mill."
>>Never work for day in life
It's basically the same thing as having royalty, slide out of the right vagina and you win the lottery. The idiots in this country that mock, say, the British Royal family don't realize that our equivalent is just named Rockefeller or Walton.

That's how it is. My take? To quote Lou Reed in "Men of Good Fortune" off "Berlin":
"Me? I just don't care at all"

>>134527413
Good to know there won't be any more of you around. Die as quick as possible desu

>>134527416
>Would be spectacular
>Would

>>134527466
Wut?

>>134527498
Read the thread

everyone is a materalist

:)

>>134527681
dont b such a jelous loser

just because someones dad kicked ass n made cool stuff doesnt stop you from doing same

this isnt jew aristochracy

thsi is free market we are talking about

if anythign blame socialsits who make it into an aristochracy and vote for capitalism to get rida anti cmopetitive abrriers

>>134518448
>Wage winner works hard in factory and to manufacture products to boost economy
>Makes $70,000 a year
>Actually takes initiative to learn and perform unlike other wage cucks who just want to drone for life.
>Gets noticed and gets promoted, or quits job once he has the money and experience to start his own factory/business
>Makes shitload of money as promoted employer/business owner.

Capitalism baby.

>>134527656
>materialist jew
jews aren't fucking materialist
>b-but they have all duh money
and they spend it on spooks like egalitarian judeo-christian nonsense, jews poison the world with morals, not materialism

>>134527694
would be like 1800s the idea golden age of usa that ended slavery and child labor without welfare and 1% gdp spent of governemtn including states!!
yeah boy!

>>134527659
You don't understand the correlation between economic growth and quality of life. Growth doesn't necessarily mean good and if luxury and wealth was key to happiness then we wouldn't be having millionaires on anti-depressants.

>>134527694
>hurr durr slave away my life for muh kids that don't bring me any material pleasure
communards truly are slaves

>>134527815
Why not give him and others unlimited access to everything by creating a post-scarcity economy?

>>134527857
Growth means massive better life as u can buy the luxuries and they are cheaper and in good supply! Millionaires aren't on anti depressants, thas just stuff media tells you to make you not chimp out like you would if you saw the mansions and hot 10s they wre porking all day n night mabye your daughter after they buy her fake tits n lipo n lips n cheeks n teeth!
yes

>>134527951
Perhaps because it's fucking expensive to create.

>>134527951
there is no such thing as a post scarcity economy or a parallel universe or timeine

economics by definition is dealing with scarcity

we are mortal
time is limited

>>134527857
We wouldn't be having poor people who resort to drugs and anti-depressants too -ohshit!

Typical wealthy envy. B-b-b-b-but money doesn't buy you happiness.

It does, dipshit. Nothing makes you happier than having the money to allow you to make the decisions you want in life.

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>>134527587
Pic related, I was technically "wrong" but German unemployment statistics were severly deflated due to new civil servant positions and the rapid expansion of the draft which didn't help the economy at all. Also found this quote " By 1937 German unemployment had fallen from six million to one million. However, the standard of living for those in employment did not improve in the same way that it had done during the 1920s. With the Nazis controlling thetrade unions, wage-rates did not increase with productivity, and after a few years of Hitler's rule workers began to privately question his economic policies."-Spartacus Education

>>134527972
>t. Believed everything TV Jew said
What are Jews putting in your water these days? It's definitely something stronger than lead and LSD

>>134527951
The point I'm making is....try being an enterprising, hardworking, innovative gentleman in a communist/socialist society.

There's a reason why all the rich and hardworking types move out whenever a country turns the other way to socialism/communism.

>>134527927
Care to just "create" post scarcity in a universe bound by limitless wants and limites material goods fuckface.

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>>134519028
they can't accept or understand that the game is rigged
that with every round of the monopoly board they can only fall behind
plenty of slaves on the farms defended their masters interests as well....

>>134527778
No, it basically is aristocracy at this point, no different from degenerate lords and gentry. Do you know who John DuPont was? The DuPont family had 200 year old inherited wealth, and John chose to build a private wrestling ring to indulge his homoerotic fantasies by letting an Olympic wrestler practice there...who he preceded to murder.

We have fucking royalty, and trying to say "b..b..but I can do dat too wit muh capitalizm" is a cop out.

I could care less, as I implied, as none of this directly effects me in any way, so let these fucker attend pagan rites at the Bohemian grove and murder wrestlers in fag fantasies...different strokes and all. But this is how it is...

>>134528037
>>134528107
>>134528031
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

Get red pilled on Jew-ry everywhere

>>134528134
do you live in video game reality?

youtube yaron brook
han herman hope
alex epstein

money n plenty of material things esp big silion boobs and liposuction make u very very happy

I wish hitler had had the chance to show us his stuff!

>>134528256
yes due to socialism ther eis a to fo crony
1800s was better
robber barons are myth
they were productive geniuses

>>134528205
Communism and Socialism don't work, you idiot!!! Unless the labour is automated!!

>>134528248
This

>>134518448

>Wage cuck works hard in factory to manufacture products to boost economy
>Makes $70,000 a year

$70K ? I'm pretty sure you make less than $70K if you work in a factory unless perhaps you're talking about people working for GM and Ford.

Have you ever worked or are you a slacker living in your mom's basement? Without 'capitalism' you probably wouldn't have a computer.

>>134528112
(Infact you'll notice German unemployment numbers only began to fall below weimar ones when the entire country was being drafted for the fucking war economy. So if you like dying in Stalingrad over being unemployed for awhile just kill yourself. Itll be easier and less painful.)

>>134528288
You'll shart your self if you got to my level of reality, Burger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

>>134528371
there is no example of socialism working even with automation.......