Robot automation.

>hey guys, let's make a law that stops technological advancement

Maybe we should ban the wheel also.

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>>129337086
but that's racism...

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>>129337086
>ban innovation
>ban companies from getting more production out of less labor, earning more profit so they can hire more workers

lets start by banning levers and pulleys first

>>129337086
No. But there should be laws in place to stop their owners from using it as an excuse to genocide the working class.

>>129337895

>genocide the working class

Failing to keep up with changing conditions in a free marketplace isn't anyone's fault but yours. No one is going to "genocide the working class" any more than someone murdered Blockbuster.

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>>129338141
>>129337177

>he thinks biological entities will have any relevance if technology is entirely unrestrained.

>>129337654
>>129337177
good arguments, that guy sure got destroyed

>>129337086
No, but, unskilled labor/jobs are going away, policy will have to be put in place that would create what amounts to pity jobs during the transition.

>>129338141
Except it's not a free marketplace. You start threatening people's existence or railroading them into famine through appropriating unreasonable amounts of resources then prepare for a fight to the death.

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>>129337086
Just use Asimov's 3 laws, and explain to the robuts that if they keep working, man will starve to death This should render them useless.

>>129338299
I can tell you as a graduate student studying machine learning and AI, that this will literally never happen, because automatic computers can only do what you tell them to do

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>>129338141
>Failing to keep up with changing conditions in a free marketplace isn't anyone's fault but yours. No one is going to "genocide the working class" any more than someone murdered Blockbuster.

Everyone makes jokes about buggy whip manufacturers, but the number of horses worldwide peaked in 1916 and these days you rarely see them outside stables, racetracks and romanian and french beef patties.

Engines made muscle obsolete. Smart machines will do same to increasingly large amount of employed human brains.

>No one is going to "genocide the working class" any more than someone murdered Blockbuster.

Except people won't willingly just starve to death. You're gonna have to put them down with force. Thats why US derpartment(punintended) of fatherland security bought 1.6 billion hollow point rounds for domestic use during Obamas time.

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>>129338708
>graduate student
>machine learning
>learning
hello larper

>>129338708

That is, until we create technology that can replicate itself or even create new technology itself.

>>129338820
spend 3 seconds to google machine learning / deep learning

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>>129338708
>inb4 lol i trolle u

>>129338689
>he thinks robots made by halliburton and soros owned company will have ethics and will to disobey order to fire on civilians.

>>129338856
But the parent machine, again, can only do what we tell it to do.

It's impossible for a computer to perform tasks that you didn't explicitly tell it to do.

The idea of computers "outsmarting" their creators is a meme.

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>>129338932
spend 3 seconds to realize a NN can train itself on its own datasets and an expert system can deduce/induce new facts

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>>129338708
If AI was impossible the human brain couldn't exist either.

Existance of human brains literally proves thers atleast one way to implement it.

>>129338624
>>129338780

>You start threatening people's existence or railroading them into famine through appropriating unreasonable amounts of resources then prepare for a fight to the death.

No one is appropriating any resource. They are being acquired through voluntary transactions.

What you're really concerned about is that other people will have resources you want, and instead of determining a strategy to acquire them in the same manner everyone else did, you want to take them via government fiat, or produce thinly-veiled threats of violence until others gift them to you, an act otherwise known as extortion.

The funniest part about this fantasy of mass unemployment is that even the most optimistic projections would put you out of a job decades from now, yet you're not even attempting to use those decades to secure for yourself the means for your own survival, you've just assumed that the government should step in to help you. Explain to me again why this sort of behavior should be encouraged or rewarded with survival?

>>129339110
original grad student here

the automatic computer can only do those things if a programmer explicitly tells it the command to do so.
so thanks for agreeing with me... i'm glad you see that you were mistaken.

>>129337086
No. We need to lift more restrictions to allow more production and friendly competition.

Automation is fine as it replaces the slave and lower level jobs with tech that should exist. There will always be certain labor jobs that require humans. Jobs in domestic energy, healthcare, and technicians that monitor and repair the robotics are in demand. Especially the first two: medical is severely understaffed, energy is overly regulated as part of leftard religion.

There is plenty that can be done: what's lacking is the will of American society to do it.

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>>129339167
>What you're really concerned about is that other people will have resources you want, and instead of determining a strategy to acquire them in the same manner everyone else did, you want to take them via government fiat, or produce thinly-veiled threats of violence until others gift them to you, an act otherwise known as extortion.

You can't logically take this position when you're literally lowering someone into a woodchipper at the time.

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>>129339254
>command
COMMAND: Improve yourself until you are superintelligent and/or omniscient.

wow such command

>>129337177
Once it becomes so prominent that mass unemployment becomes the norm, yea, something needs to give.

We're looking at a future where the vast majority of people are unemployed living off of universal basic income. Cuckerberg wants it because he knows the future will be in the hands of a few super corporations, which he will be head of. Without it, he has no paying customers and they will revolt. With UBS, he can just pay a tax to pay everyone, in which they will spend it right back with him.

>>129339167
I don't think the government should do anything at all. The government is being used as an instrument to aid a certain few to thrive at the expense of a large group of others. All I'm saying is that if you threaten the survival of someone, regardless of how abstract the mechanism is that you use you can expect someone to try and end you too.

>>129339478
Wow, you created pseudocode that essentially says "Do the impossible"

Not an argument, loser.

>>129337086
Yes so you can fuck up yourself while rest of world dont follow your laws.

>>129339408

>You can't logically take this position when you're literally lowering someone into a woodchipper at the time.

Again, even by the most optimistic projections you have decades before technological advancements overtake most professions. Why aren't you acting now to ensure that you will have the skills and resources you need to compete?

>>129339586

>UBI

UBI is the epitome of r-selection and r-selection is cancer to civilization. Once UBI takes hold we can just bend over and kiss our ass goodbye, hope you have the tools to survive and rebuild after the apocalypse.

>>129337086
no, they would only remove jobs that people dont want to do so we have to stop importing niggers for these jobs which is fucking great. im all for automation.

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>>129339697
>>>/b/
pls go back

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>>129339817
>Why aren't you acting now to ensure that you will have the skills and resources you need to compete?

What the fuck have you been smoking last 10 years? European economies haven't even recovered to 2007 bubble burst levels even yet and next one is going to be worse.

We have +11% unemployment and even unemployed people have to pay 20% tax on their benefits. Even if they actually work 7 hours a day in a job they have 2 degrees on.

>>129339817
It's not, why are developed countries having so few children when they have the means to have as many as they want? Decadence indicates the inverse.

We are looking at something worse, an underclass.

>>129338708
Just a reminder that humans are machines made of protein.

>>129339680

>All I'm saying is that if you threaten the survival of someone, regardless of how abstract the mechanism is that you use you can expect someone to try and end you too.

What makes you think that those few people who thrive with what you call unreasonable amounts of resources wouldn't expect this? They have all sorts of equipment and personnel to protect themselves from you today, much less in this fantastical mass uprising.

Furthermore why are we defending people who use the implied threat of violence to make up for their lack of ability to secure the means of their own survival? This sort of acquiescence to extortion is why we all live like rabbits in r-selected welfare states, with half the population on the dole and contributing nothing.

Resources aren't free.

>>129337378
Source

>>129337086
No. People should just learn to get with the times instead of clinging on to the past. It's asinine to expect a consumer to be fine with pimple face handling his food for $8/an hour when he can have a machine do it exponentially better at the cost of just of his electric bill for the month and parts required.

>>129340458
animatrix second renaissance

Automation is scientific progress.

Why you impede scientific progress?

>>129337086
Yes

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>>129340378
>We have +11% unemployment

Sorry, I was hallucinating, Our actual current employment rate goal by current government administration is 72%.

>>129337086
I don't think people really enjoy being someone else's faggot to send around. If robots can make customers comfortable without anyone on the "receiving end", it's a good thing. Of course there's always the problem where you exclude people you don't feel are worth it. This is what the owners naturally do, but it should not be acceptable for them to overreach so much that the have-nots have to die.

>>129340437
What mass uprising? I'm just saying if you threaten someone's life then you can expect a fight. What are you trying to imply by mentioning equipment and personnel? Of course they do. They're expecting violence. That's what it's always been about. You're right, resources aren't free, but the only real currency that's going to be exchanged here is human life.

>>129340437
>Furthermore why are we defending people who use the implied threat of violence to make up for their lack of ability to secure the means of their own survival?
This guy gets it

>>129340378

>What the fuck have you been smoking last 10 years? European economies haven't even recovered to 2007 bubble burst levels even yet and next one is going to be worse.

>We have +11% unemployment and even unemployed people have to pay 20% tax on their benefits. Even if they actually work 7 hours a day in a job they have 2 degrees on.

And yet in your hubris you continue to import third-world savages who have no discernible skills except consuming resources and wielding machetes.

That vague sense of existential dread you feel is natural selection telling you that your time is running out.

>>129340381

>It's not, why are developed countries having so few children when they have the means to have as many as they want?

Birth control. There's nothing that indicates you have low investment in your offspring more than aborting them because it's inconvenient for your hedonistic lifestyle.

This is to say nothing of the men; the single parenthood figures among women who somehow don't manage to secure free abortions should tell you this society is r-selected.

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>>129340596
>People should just learn to get with the times instead of clinging on to the past.

You can't fucking do that if the people with autonomous solar powered combat drones decide its time to reduce pollution by 98%.

>>129339586
>We're looking at a future where the vast majority of people are unemployed living off of universal basic income.

This is if the society stagnates completely. The case where the United States is nothing but Russia with more technology.

It doesn't have to be this way. The goal should be to allow people to continue cultural development, not to send them home while streets are full of dirt and roaming stray dogs.

>>129339408
>lowering someone into the woodchipper
That argument might work 60 years from now, but at this present point where we are all aware what is coming and can brace accordingly? No. You're on your own if you get boxed out by the robots for that minimum wage job. Nobody should be a 40+ year old man flipping patties at a McDonalds. It's one thing to use that job to propel yourself forward, and it's something else entirely to try and make a livelihood out of it.

>>129337086
can't we just tax industries that use robots more? start paying a universal salary to everyone..

or has my brain done too many backflips?

>>129337086
Au contraire. Less jobs for subhumans is always a good thing after all.

>>129341006
What makes you think they would decide to do that? Also why don't you have the means to protect yourself?

>>129340847

>What mass uprising? I'm just saying if you threaten someone's life then you can expect a fight.

Fighting for survival + large-scale unemployment = mass uprising

The idea that automation will cause mass unemployment is a joke but the idea of hordes of idiots trying to take by force what they failed to acquire by wit is not. It will happen and they will be BTFO by their superiors, that is unless you allow them to use government to extort their way out.

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>>129340908
>And yet in your hubris you continue to import third-world savages

>in your hubris

I am on government watchlists and today, on saturday my phone rang at 10 am and it was the police with questions about my emails to some government officials telling them they're racist against native european population.

>>129338624

This is correct. The "owners" of natural resources did very little to "create" them, they mostly just got the certificates that state they are now the owners. This isn't a problem if they're making them available at "virtually no cost" (the cost of extracting them), but it IS a problem if they start to extort /exclude the have-nots.

>>129337654
>ban companies from getting more production out of less labor,
>earning more profit
>so they can hire more workers
that's not how it works you fucking retard

>>129339041

>It's impossible for a computer to perform tasks that you didn't explicitly tell it to do.

There's a big difference between explicitly programming rules on how to translate languages for example vs. programming an algorithm where translation is made based on a network of weighted connections where the weights emerged based on distance between the program's attempted answers and a known data set. The latter isn't explicit at all.

>b-but you still had to write the algorithm!

Programs can write algorithms for other programs too. And random input could be the trigger that makes a program do something if you want random input to be the cause instead of yourself. Really you're just arguing that everything is caused by other things, which isn't an AI issue, that's true of people and animals in exactly the same way.

>b-but people make decisions for themselves!

Nope, those decisions don't just magically pop out of nowhere, they come from thoughts and habits which are themselves ultimately the product of external causes. You can't claim thoughts as your creation, if you trace your thoughts back far enough you'll eventually get to an involuntary and unconscious origin for them.

>>129338708
Sounds like the working class to me.

Full speed ahead.

>>129337086

Then some other country will and become ahead of everyone else.

>>129341424
>BTFO by their superiors

What makes them so superior, anon? Their ability to Jew people out of resources using the threat of violence from the state? There's nothing superior about a BAE exec using my tax money to subsidise his salary.

>>129338708
as a postgrad of the one true computer related degree: computer science, I disagree

>>129340398
i'm with this guy

>>129337177
>>129337378

You fucking niggers. A billionaire's money is worth nothing if people don't have a job.

>>129341444

>I am on government watchlists and today, on saturday my phone rang at 10 am and it was the police with questions about my emails to some government officials telling them they're racist against native european population.

Oh wow, you wrote an e-mail. You definitely deserve to retain your historical nation for your sacrifice. Doubtless your ancestors are smiling upon you today for your deadly prowess with Microsoft Outlook.

>>129341090
Yes, alternatively, you could just tax profits. Profits is always charging other people more than it cost to have operations which leads to concentration of wealth.

>>129341889

>What makes them so superior, anon? Their ability to Jew people out of resources using the threat of violence from the state? There's nothing superior about a BAE exec using my tax money to subsidise his salary.

In any case I suppose in a pinch you could throw that unearned sense of moral superiority you have in a pan and eat it if you have to. Serves 3 to 4

>>129337086
Robotic automation is a good thing

The problem here is the structure of society. It will be necessary to assure that the increased production brought by the second machine age benefits all and not just the powerful few.

>>129342156
What sense of moral superiority, anon? I'm just saying we're all men (for the most part), and we'll all try and do what we need to do to survive according to our means and ability.

>>129341959
Get a job that can't be automated. Programming. Healthcare. Engineering. Etc.

Soon. McDonald's will be fully automated. So working part time there won't do.

>>129339110
>spend 3 seconds to realize a NN can train itself on its own datasets and an expert system can deduce/induce new facts
You likely have read a few pop sci articles and have a completely wrong idea of how ML and DL works. A computer doesn't cook up, mine, and learn from "its own" datasets unless explicitly programmed to do so and the learning method used is something akin to a back propagation if we are talking Neural Nets. Even then there's a lot of fine tuning which has to be done by inducing search algorithms or be done manually by a researcher to ensure the net doesn't overfit to any one pattern it finds in a dataset as you look to feed it new observations in the future. One last thing, general learners aren't much of a thing at this point. We don't have machines collecting data about every little thing and hashing it all together, navigating, and making decisions accordingly like a human would with their 5 senses as they wake up and move throughout the day. Our models at this point pretty much work as complex mathematical equations that are built to solve one problem concerning a dataset, and then maybe you have a larger encompassing program that collects results/predictions from the various models it has built into it. This is different from humans where we can make models and reason ourselves. Machines have to be told what to model and then we manually can hack it all together from there and pretend it's AI when it's really not.

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>>129341976
>Oh wow, you wrote an e-mail.

You think its normal the police threaten you with criminal investigation over a single dissent message to one person?

On saturday morning?

>>129337086
No one needed to have muslims and blacks imposed on them to 'fill in the gap caused by the aged', 'skills shortage' and other bullcrap
Robots could be used for many jobs and be paid. Same as human workers

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>>129342197
Keep dreaming.

>>129341959

what do you mean? Money is arbitrage power for whatever people compete for. If it doesn't work that way, it's no longer useful money.

>>129342542
https://www.therebel.media/62_year_old_german_woman_arrested_and_fined_over_1300_euros_for_sharing_anti_migrant_joke_on_facebook

>>129337177
Did you ever get your brain from the wizard of oz?

>>129337177
Ban wheel, restore horse jobs
Ban horse, restore runner jobs.

>>129342542

>You think its normal the police threaten you with criminal investigation over a single dissent message to one person?

>On saturday morning?

Not at all. Why aren't you doing something about that?

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>>129342450
Nope. Actually studied it formally. I'm somewhat familiar with today's methods and their limitations and problems(e.g. network sizes and connectivity are guesses at this point). I'm arguing about tomorrow really. As in, what is theoretically computable and hence, possible. Nice informative post, though.

>>129342635
well that's what needs to be done anyway

socialism will win, or almost everyone will lose

>>129337086
As long as there's niggers, you won't see those type of robots, you only see something like a vending machine with bullet proof glass.

>>129342655
this is proof how unstable the situation here is. They know the vast majority does not share the forced opinions, otherwise there would be absolutely no need to being like that and it would be considered tyrannical

Jobs that become obsolete by automation are usually of the sort that is done by the uneducated.
So, basically by the " oh, so desperately needed immigrants".

In truth, automation will generally require an initial high investment with a pay off over time (obviously; installing new systems, etc. but saving wages).
Now, the more desperately jobless masses you have available (and the majority of them perfectly willing to work for way less than western minimum wages), the longer you can avoid - or prepare - for this automation. Once you are ready or it is no longer more profitable, you can simply kick your workers out, making them a public problem.
The fact that the - eventually - jobless masses are a completely and utterly incompatible parallel society isn´t helping either. Expect a state of permanent low-level warfare across Europe (and possibly the US too) beginning from the next 10, 15 years onward.
But that is hardly any news, really.

>>129343007
Its much more likely that the working class will simply slowly die out.

If the Republicans are successful in gutting the social safety net program in Merrica, that will happen sooner rather than later.

>>129343007
>socialism will win, or almost everyone will lose

oh well, sort of, the type of scandi socialism will win, if you inject marxist corpse into the equation you only worsen everything

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>>129342904
>Not at all. Why aren't you doing something about that?

I have sued the cops over actual crimes with minimal 2 year prison sentence, been threatened, reported threats, went to appeals court and denied access to supreme court despite the victim of the original crime testified in appeals court in my behalf cops committed perjury in lower court

and it cost thousands and they never got investigated, never mind prosecuted or sentenced.

should I try roadside bombs next?

>>129343126

>They know the vast majority does not share the forced opinions

They also know the vast majority will be cowed by even small amounts of intimidation.

>>129343316
Which is why violence is necessary and inevitable.

>>129343316

Yes, true. Germany is like a cage of bunnies.

>>129343455
https://archive.org/details/TotalResistanceSwissArmyGuideToGuerrillaWarfareAndUnderground

>>129343313

>should I try roadside bombs next?

I think you know the answer to that.

>>129343623
>I think you know the answer to that.

Its like chatting with magic 8 ball in here.

>>129343312
aye

>>129337086
They only take the jobs everyone complains about. You want mexicans or robots? Pick fast.

>>129337086
>Should there be laws in place to prevent robotic automaton?

Yeah, and bankrobbery too. And murder.

Let's outlaw the common cold and mosquitoes while we're at it.

>>129343313
Yes

>>129343313
Call the police to come to an address where you can ambush them with a rifle.

Go full Chris Dorner.

>>129337086
Are you retarded? This has the potential to eliminate our need to work forever.