/tram/ - Tram General Thread

Croydon tram has 5 victims.
Looks like high speed + switch changed to wrong direction.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/09/croydon-tram-crash-five-trapped-40-injured

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Two more pics from this Usť-Katav, the home town of UKVZ tram producing factory.

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The system is pretty...well, Russian style rural

>>1025324
It's actually just a test track for new trams, wow. Didn't know that. It goes normally through urban area.

>>1025326
Last post on Usť-Katav
If I understand it right, the line sometimes run to collect workers from the factory. Smart. But it sure looks terribly rundown and dangerous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMUX4tSsfI

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>>1025320
According to the RAIB (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fatal-tram-accident-in-croydon), it was running Wimbledon-bound, so no switch was involved.
Video related shows a long 80 km/h stretch after which comes a sharp 20 km/h left turn in which the crash happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhuogCAh6Pg&t=12m56s

>>1025336
Wow, that's a major and very dangerous speed drop for a tram system.

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>>1025332
>City please?
Bielefeld. Pic related are options for the route of one part of the proposed line - the line which didn't make it through the public vote. I have to admit that the proposed project was rather stupid and much more complex than it would have needed to be.
Bielefeld's urban rail system is high-floor, meter gauge, with raised platforms at most stops. The plan was to build a low-floor line from Heepen via the city center to Sennestadt, running on the same track as line 1 for about half of the way.
This would have meant three things:
>a new type of vehicle for the new line 5 only
>additional congestion of Jahnplatz (the central transport hub) with line 5 trams. The other lines have been moved underground only 25 years ago.
>complicated stations to accomodate both high- and low-floor vehicles all the way from Adenauerplatz to Senne (12 stations)
So as you can see, it was doomed to fail from the very start. I don't know why the city council didn't propose an idea that would have actually been possible. For example, you could extend the existing line 1 to Sennestadt. The existing line 4, which currently ends in the city center and occupies a turnout track, could be extended to Heepen and everything would be fine and dandy.

>>1025327
>it sure looks terribly rundown and dangerous

So like a lot of ex-Soviet infrastructure.

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>>1025347
>complicated stations to accomodate both high- and low-floor vehicles all the way from Adenauerplatz to Senne (12 stations)
Wasn't one point of this to get low floor trains into Brackwede's main street where high floor platforms won't easily fit? And let line 1 terminate somewhere in the downtown.

>>1025376
Yes, that was one more thing they were trying to accomplish. It would be no problem at all to raised high platforms on Brackwede Hauptstraße if everything wasn't completely full of parking spots. And even with those everywhere, drivers are still retarded enough to park on the tracks regularly.
It would be great if we could just build a parking lot somewhere, rid the street of those pesky parking spots and build raised platforms instead of the whole "let's introduce an entirely new rail system that is incompatible with everything we have right now" idea.

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The predecessor of the low floor tram: the stepless tram.

The image is "Big Lizzie" in Brisbane, Queensland.

>>1025694
How many axles did it have, I can't see it properly? 2x2 axled bogies like PCC or are the bogies just one-axled?
Was the car introduced earlier than PCC?

>>1025347

AFAIK the extension to Sennestadt is still on the table, although I haven't heard anything about it in a long time.

Unfortunately extending route 4 to Heepen would have required a very expensive tunnel at Jahnplatz, while it's cheaper to build over ground. So this option was scrapped at the very beginning in fear of jeopardizing federal fundings.

>>1025376
Someone made a counter-proposal, in which route 1 was to be moved two blocks to the south through Sennestadtring while extending it to Sennestadt. There would have been enough room for high-floor stations then. Needless to say both this proposal and yours failed at the local merchants who feared a loss of customers in both cases, when you either can't park near the stores or the tram doesn't run nearby anymore.

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>>1025771
It looks like the bogies have 2 axles.

The car was built in the early 1910s. The first PCC streetcar was received in 1936.

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>>1025817
It looks amazing, however the similar concept was used even earlier for metro cars in Budapest in 1896. Also two turnable railway-like bogies on sides with "low floor" entrance in the middle.
Sad that such concept was pretty much abandoned for trams later.

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>>1025818
Another low floor non-articulated tram was much later this Italian prototype of Socimi LRV 350 in 1989, unfortunately the mass production didn't start

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>>1025821
And now there's this EVO1 tram from Czech Pragoimex, pictured in the city of Most. I've heard that also some Russian producers try to introduce similar 100% low floor non-articulated tram.

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>>1025822
Picture of the interior.

For those who don't know why this is so unique. It's the fact that until now the low floor trams were mostly either articulated which makes it easier for the bogie technology or only partial low floor with some indoor steps. This short tram must use bogies which are turnable but also with very low profile for the floor.

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>>1025803
>AFAIK the extension to Sennestadt is still on the table, although I haven't heard anything about it in a long time.
True. They decided the useless extension to Milse, which they dubbed Altenhagen to make it seem like they actually accomplished something.
>Unfortunately extending route 4 to Heepen would have required a very expensive tunnel at Jahnplatz
How so? Line 4 runs through Jahnplatz already and ends at Rathaus. The plan was to move the terminus from there anyway, because the train takes up the turnout track just south of Rathaus.
My idea was to extend the tracks from there as in pic related. The overall distance is a bit longer than in the line 5 proposal, but it also eliminates the need to change trains at Jahnplatz in order to get to the central station or the university.
>Someone made a counter-proposal, in which route 1 was to be moved two blocks to the south through Sennestadtring while extending it to Sennestadt.
You mean Stadtring in Brackwede, right? I would go one step further and have the line run through Gütersloher Straße and Gotenstraße before continuing on Stadtring, so that the stop Brackwede Bahnhof would actually be in the vicinity of Brackwede Bahnhof. But I can see where the criticism is coming from and I guess the status quo will remain for quite a while.
Maybe we can build small ramps to accomodate wheelchair passengers or something.

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I anyone interested in a small dump of Porto tram museum?, I have some nice pics but it can take a while because I have to resize them since they are about 5 mb each. I can dumpp later today if there is anyone interested.

>>1025969
Use software like Faststone to do batch resize in one click

>>1025942
>My idea was to extend the tracks from there as in pic related.
The flaw in your plan is, that standard trams have a minimum radius in curves of 25m. Look at the route 3 crossing on your pic at Nikolaus-Dürkopp/August-Bebel. That's the minimum radius a tram cam go. For your proposal to work you'd have to tear down a building at August-Bebel-/Viktoria. That in turn would increase costs through lawsuits and is why this proposal was scrapped, too.
>You mean Stadtring in Brackwede, right? I would go one step further and have the line run through Gütersloher Straße and Gotenstraße before continuing on Stadtring, so that the stop Brackwede Bahnhof would actually be in the vicinity of Brackwede Bahnhof. But I can see where the criticism is coming from and I guess the status quo will remain for quite a while.
Maybe we can build small ramps to accomodate wheelchair passengers or something.

Stadtring, right. I believe your idea was the way they planned it. There is still the issue with the curve radius from Goten to Stadtring, again. Maybe the empty lot in from of Agfeo can be bought somehow. That would leave enough room to connect these two streets.
Wheelchair-ramps in Hauptstrasse won't work, because all three tram models in Bielefeld have the doors in different positions. Besides, these ramps would have to be 1m high which makes them so long, that they block other doors and take up parking lots.
Still, something needs to happen soon. According to an EU-regulation all public transport stations need to be wheelchair accessible by 2022.

>>1025822
That paint scheme is vomint inducing. Personally I like the Olomouc paint scheme the most.

When a LRT systen reached its maximum capacity, how to upgrade the system? Note that convert to regular rail/metro system is out of option since each of those hundreds station in the system are generally only a few hundred meters away from each other

>>1026339
LRT is the highest capacity you can get from urban surface transportation. At best you can upgrade it to 60 or even 80m long trams, eliminating a few stops if they're too close together, but it can still be complex if it's an old system. Best option for more capacity if LRT isn't enough is to go full grade separated metro, either subway or elevated.

Also Blimptrain.

>>1025969
yes please

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>>1026322
I like Liberec paint scheme

I also like the former Prague's 14T paint with simple red and silver scheme. The new one is simply Kotas-tier.
>shitstorm incoming

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>>1026394
14T after getting a new scheme in Prague

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>>1026396
old and new paint standing next to each other

Doesn't the right one look childish and edgy with all that black and stuff?

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>>1026394
Had to look up the Liberec one t.bh because I just couldn't recall it. Well for me the most aesthetically pleasing tram in CZ is Inkeon Trio in Ostrava livery. It's just so sexy.

>>1026397
Yep it does, because everything Kokotas makes looks childish and edgy.

>>1026394
>cobblestone streets
>no visible traffic
>beautiful old buildings that are excellently maintained
>tram junction implies more than one line passing through there
my comfiness meter is off the fucking charts!

>>1025824
Woah nice. How did they do it? I wish bogie trams made a comeback, articulated fixed-bogie units are a good idea for a simple and effective design, but they're so fucking shit at taking turns, it's depressing.

>>1026382
The LRT system is also grade separated on almost all stretches... Can articulated double deck LRT work?

>>1026339
If longer radial lines are overloaded, add a higher-tier metro system on top of it with larger stop distances.
If it's just the central downtown network, try to relieve with tangential lines.

Or Quad-track busy sections with tunnel+surface, but with same stop distances, as equally tiered lines.

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>>1026397
I hate how in the front the black window stripe adds a curved line that isn't there in the actual vehicle, as the driver's side window and the panels around it draw a 30° angled line down past the other windows. The new livery doesn't respect to that.

Pic related is similar: The original car was literally a box, the red stripe attempts to make it round, which it simply isn't and it looks unfitting.

t. design pro

>>1026449
Actually, another reason why I said converting to metro make little sense is because there's already a metro line connecting major area in the region together with stations 1-2 km apart. But while the metro line did run parallel along the central backbone of the LRT system, it only have 5 stops in the LRT service area (planned to increase to 7), thus most passengers would need LRT/buses to connect if they are going to use that metro line instead of LRT to reach their region, and thus the metro line is generally not viewed as a substitute to the LRT system, and the metro line is already rather crowded with traffic into/out of the region already although not as much as the LRT.

And a correction: The system does not have hundreds of stations, instead it have 68.

The region now have 1 million population, and expected to house 500k more in next two decades.

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Stockholm's plow unit, 9207, built in 1904.

Still getting jobs, particularly after the current snowstorm.

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>>1026543
Stop spamming your hateful comments ;-;

>>1026441
They had to come up with very low bogies that would fit under the liw floor and eventually they did it. Yet you can see that there are still parts under the seats where the floor is higher and there is a step. In e.g. Germany wouldn't be such solution considered low floor.
There are also articulated low floor trams which use normal turnable bogie technology which makes them more convenient to curvy tracks. For instance Skoda 15T

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>>1026543
>calling people autistic on 4chins

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>>1026581
>In e.g. Germany wouldn't be such solution considered low floor.
I disagree with this. Most low-floor trams have parts that are raised where the bogie is. We have Alstom units and it's pretty much the same. There's sections without bogies which are 100% low floor, and there's the sections with the bogies below where there's a narrow passage which is low floor, but all the seats are on raised platforms. It's still considered 100% low floor because you can walk through the whole tram without any steps.

>>1026584
Ok, that's a new information to me. I've read that there are some technical regulations on labeling a tram as a low floor in Germany and what are the demands and whatever. But it was either a lie or I misinterpret it. Still it's a true that having a low floor tram but with all the seats on raised platforms is rather uncomfortable and it ruins the whole purpose.

>>1026445
By grade separated do you mean ROW with street-level crossings including traffic lights, or full grade separation with absolute priority like a train?
If it's the latter, certainly one ought to use larger trains. Full grade separation is wasted on LRT type vehicles. Also it shouldn't be that complicated to adapt the system to longer trains.

Otherwise this >>1026449

>>1026536
It's quite all right that the metro has a different use than the LRT. It still takes away demand from the LRT, by attracting people who would use the LRT if it were the only option.
If both lines are at capacity, additional parallel lines might be in order. It's often as simple as building another line somewhat parallel, maybe about 500m-1km apart. Demand would mostly split between both lines. What city are you talking about btw?

>>1026586
Not really, the purpose of a low floor tram is mostly being wheelchair accessible, and since every other section is pure low floor this has already been achieved.

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>>1026581
I know they are not the pinnacle of tram engineering, but do I love 15Ts

They also gave birth to The Greasing Tram

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$50B+ light rail expansion was just approved in the Seattle area. I just hope they can find a way to reduce the timelines...

>>1026624
Great one. How is the public bus service, though? I have that strange feeling that US cities spend a lot of money on expanding lightrails/subway/streetcar/whatever but usually forget about the next impotant step of a functioning public transportation system which is a network of frequent bus lines.

>>1026614
> they are not the pinnacle of tram engineering
Why do you think so? I think they are actually one of the most developed trams you can get nowadays technology-wise.

>>1026587
ROW with street level crossing.

The system is now using a mix of single LRV and biarticulated LRV, proposal have been made to connect all the single LRV car into biarticulated car, but apparently it would require extra infrastructure to support that number of extra cars.

And I'm talking about the Northwestern New Town part of Hong Kong

>>1026643
>Great one. How is the public bus service, though? I have that strange feeling that US cities spend a lot of money on expanding lightrails/subway/streetcar/whatever but usually forget about the next impotant step of a functioning public transportation system which is a network of frequent bus lines.

Seattle has relatively excellent express and local bus service except traffic causes a lot of delays. I lived in the city without a car for several years, which is pretty common there. It's one of the largest bus systems in the US.

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>>1026439
5 daily lines and 2 night lines go through here. Prague tram system is indeed comfy, especially in the historical parts of the city, but for me, the comfiest in Czech Republic is the one in Olomouc. Small, clean, reliable, fast.

>>1026695
>fast

Don't make me laugh. Also the reliable part is doubtful.

>>1026695
Also there are 7 daily lines (although 3 would be enough) and 0 night lines.

>>1026700
>>1026701
Well, I've been there only few times but it seemed to me like it is really good. Maybe I would change my mind if I was a daily user.

>>1026702
It's not bad for the city of it's size and it's very busy and apparently popular among citizens but the speed is definitely not an advantage of Olomouc tram system. The busiest part that goes through the central town is also the slowest where most of it's length the tram must not go faster than 20 km/h because of either pedestrian zone or damaged tracks. If I look at the timetable and average speed of each line (that means station time included) then I get something like this:
>Line 1: 5.3km/17 minutes = 18.7 km/h
>Line 2: 4.9km/19 minutes = 15.5 km/h
>Line 3: 5.1km/20 minutes = 15.3 km/h (The slowest yet the newest line)
>Line 4: 8.4km/28 minutes = 18.0 km/h
>Line 5: 3.3km/11 minutes = 18.0 km/h
>Line 6: 5.6km/20 minutes = 16.8 km/h
>Line 7: 5.3km/20 minutes = 15.9 km/h

>Total average: 118.2/7=16.9 km/h

In Prague it's 18.8 km/h (faster than any line in Olomouc). Can't find rest of Czechia but according to this article about Poland, the slowest tram system in Poland is in Wroclaw with 17.4 km/h. The smaller systems are even more than 20 km/h.
http://www.fakt.pl/wydarzenia/polska/wroclaw/mamy-najwolniejsze-tramwaje-w-polsce/9ejtgfl

>>1026708
I looked up Ostrava, where I am originally from and the line I was using the most apparently does it's 11 km long journey in 32 minutes. Which makes up to about 20.5 km/h. But majority of this line goes on a sort of high speed tramway line, without traffic lights or crossing the road at all (if so, it has absolute priority, which means there is a sign "give way to tramways.")
I have to take a look on the other lines when I come back home from work.

>>1026708
Ok I took the data from idos and it seems like the average speed of Ostrava trams is above 20 km/h. 23.1 exactly, but you cannot take the timetable data that seriously. Anyway the fastest are 5 (29 km/h), which is sort of an interurban line, which goes through woods and 10 (25 km/h) which is the "express version" of line number 1 (the one I mentioned before) which drives through some of the stops.

>>1026236
>The flaw in your plan is, that standard trams have a minimum radius in curves of 25m. Look at the route 3 crossing
That's true, I didn't consider the problem of turning radius and I'm a dirty gommunist so I didn't think about what the neighbours would say.
How about this then: Line 4 shares track with line 3 and continues straight ahead through Carl-Schmidt-Straße (they wanted to do something like this anway). Then it turns left onto August-Bebel-Straße (only a small parking lot in the way). Then it turns right onto Heeper Straße ("Var. 5", only a few trees in the way).

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>>1026954
Here's a picture for illustration.

>>1027416
>>1026954

The whole area in Carl-Schmidt-Strasse is private property. The route would cross some kind of playground area of that youth hostel, too. That won't work either.
Also when both routes 3 and 4 going out of the city take a left turn after Rathaus, the inbound track would have to be cleared twice as much as before.

You can now see all the little problems the planners are having with the Heepen extension. The best way would be a new tunnel from somewhere after Kunsthalle going underneath Jahnplatz station. This would be crazy expensive, of course. But this new route wouldn't interfere with the existing services, if it had it's separate tracks. That was the idea behind the low-floor system.

An alternative would be connecting a new tunnel segment after Jahnplatz going under Rathaus and so on. There are existing spots right before the ramps to Rathaus where a future tunnel could be connected. Still expensive, but a way to extend route 4.
I doubt that the two tracks between Rathaus and main station could handle the load of a fifth route.

>>1027602
Private property is a pain in the ass.

>>1027896
>t. Karl Marx

>>1027897
indeed

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Moody picture from tomorrow. It is the end loop on Trondheims only tram line, afaik the northernmost tram line in the world. It is also probably the last documentation of the old wooden support as it is being changed this weekend. I liked the old wooden rails up there sort of in the nature already.

Trondheim tram is nice comfy line with great view, if you get here, take the ride!

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>>1027970
Oh, modern railroad ties are made out of concrete, aren't they? I never really paid attention to this. Wood used in rail bedding is really nice, shame most rails in my area have been decommissioned, I remember seeing wooden ties laying in stacks near roads. Now I don't think there are any minor rails here, only modern high speed tracks remained.

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In Toronto we call them street cars. I fucking love them

>>1027988
Most of the rail lines in Ontario still use wood ties

>>1027988
wooden ties might look good to someone and be cheaper but they are very toxic to environment because they are full of some tar and other stuff, also concrete ties survive for longer ofc

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Hansa GT4 in Timişoara, Romania.

Note: The licence plate.

>>1028031
>damn thats a sexy vehicle

would

>>1028344
unf

>>1026543
Rude

>>1028047
The concrete expands the same way as the track does, preventing sun kinks.

At least that's what I heard.

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>>1027416

You ain't shit if you are not from Sudbrack. Nordpark here.

>>1028895
Dang, I've not been to Sudbrack or Nordpark in ages. This takes me back...

>>1028895
>>1029079
Nice to see that there are so many people around with an interest in the city. I really like Nordpark station, I think it's the prettiest one in the city. Too bad it only has an entrance towards the city center. It really pleases my autism when underground station also serve as pedestrian underpasses for street crossings.

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>>1028383
They're being replaced with these by the end of 2020
Theyre more like subway cars inside and air conditioned, but I like the nostalgic look of the old street cars

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>his city doesn't operate the largest streetcar/tram system in North America

R8 our surface transit map

Rusia....

https://youtu.be/JQqtd9rtrHY

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>>1029136
Very good, especially for North America. How is the marked areas' coverage with metro and busses?

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Comfy pic from a recent newspaper article. There's a heated argument going on about whether raised platforms should be built in this street or not.

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>>1029483
Mostly Bus, though the Subway does run along Bloor. 3 of the circled areas (left and the 2 central ones) used to have a Streetcars but they were eventually replaced with Trolley Buses and then those where decommissioned in 94. Pic related is the extent of the old streetcar system.

If you want to see the Trolley Bus system you can find it here: http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/maps/TTC_1981.pdf
Like I said some of the old streetcar lines north of Bloor because Trolley Buses until the 90's

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>>1029483
Our subway system is very sparse, downtown travel mostly depends on street cars, and in the northern part of the city it's mostly buses but a new LRT line is supposed to open in 2021

The orange line on this map is still under construction, everything else marked is full subway or the Scarborough line, (Line 3) is on the surface or elevated rail.

>>1029525
we had street cars all the way to Eglinton?

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>>1029483
The dark blue is existing subway/rapid transit. As you can see it is very sparse. The light blue are major bus routes that I could think of, but I'm sure it is much more extensive than that. The Orange line at the top is the orange line here
>>1029556
which is under construction.

>>1029134

>They're being replaced with these whenever the cucklefucks at Bombardier decided to not screw up and actually deliver those things

Only 27 of them have been delivered so far according to CPTDB

>>1029564
Bombardier also shit the bed on the pilot vehicle for the Eglinton LRT. They're super fucked now because of that fucking airplane, taking all their capital.

>>1029557
Yea the Yonge Streetcar used to go up to Glen Echo loop which was between Lawrence and York Mills. It connected to an interurban line that went up to Sutton there. The line was shut down when the Subway opened. Service north of Yonge was provided by a Trolley bus up until the subway extension to York Mills occurred.

An interesting fact about Glen Echo is that during the preliminary planing of the Yonge Extension to York Mills, the TTC planned on constructing a station at Glen Echo Road (they also planned on a station at Glencarin & Yonge as well). Both stations were cut due to budgetary concerns. This is why the stop spacing between Eglinton - Lawrence and Lawrence - York Mills is so large.

>>1029598
>. Both stations were cut due to budgetary concerns. This is why the stop spacing between Eglinton - Lawrence and Lawrence - York Mills is so large
The stops on the Spadina extension are really far apart too

I guess up there bus service can fill the gaps. Man the sheppard subway triggers me like hell. I don't care if nobody uses it, just finish it! That map just kills my OCD.

>>1029619
Well I can sort of see why there is such a large gap between Dupont - St.Clair West - Eglinton West simply because that section runs under a ravine so there really aren't any places to put any mid-block stations. Where as Yonge Street is pretty mush all residential north of St.Clair (save for Yonge and Eglinton).

As for Sheppard it is pretty much in that corner of being to expensive to expand but to expensive to shut down. Sheppard as well also had a station cut (besides the obvious West and East extensions). There was supposed to be a station at Willowdale between Sheppard and Bayview but it was cut mostly because of budget and the area residents didn't want a subway stop in their neighborhood because NIMBY'esm

>>1029630
One of the proposals is to build light rail east on sheppard ave from Don Mills to Scarborough town centre

Why not deccomision the subway and run the lrt through the first part of the subway tunnel so it's one line from yonge to Scarborough. Seems pretty dumb to put a transfer in the middle of a line

>>1029698
Or let subway and LRT coexist on same rail?

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>>1029585

I believe the rail division is supposed to be separate from the aerospace division, I thought most of the blame are being laid on the Mexico due to their parts plant there is absolute trash in making parts which makes everything worse

>>1029721

>TTC Gauge, third-rail, and high floor (Subway)
>Standard Gauge, overhead catenary, and low floor (LRT)

>>1029721
The tunnel isn't big enough to run them side by side

Imo just finish the fucking subway. They saw over a billion dollars in development go up along sheppard when that first stretch was built. The same is happening with the Eglinton line. Having heavy rail up there will help ease gentrification and make North York actually relevant. It also makes Scarborough more relevant.
I know proper planning would put a subway where there is actual demand but fuck that 4 stop stubway.

Ultimate mode:
Extend Danforth subway to STC. Extend Sheppard line to STC
Connect them. Run a circle line down yonge line, across BD line then back west across Sheppard. Sheppard line is already connected to Yonge line because they share a rail yard.

Then master mode: put a surface LRT down Don Mills or part of the parklands in the don valley.
Bam, North York, East York and Scarborough all become relevant parts of the city.

TTC /n/ meetup when?

I'm down to ride street cars literally all day

>>1029725
>TTC Gauge
The Eglinton line and finch west are going to be standard 4'8.5" gauge fyi

>>1029729

I know, that's why I laughed at the idea of >>1029721 since TTC will not be spending ridiculous amount of money to make a line with dual-gauge tracks, dual-platforms, and two different power delivery systems along with a large enough tunnel to run both

>>1029732
desu i don't think sheppard east will get built. The finch line isn't being built until after Eglinton opens in 2021 assuming its on time and by then there will be a new provincial and mayoral election.

Sheppard will get nothing or it will get a subway.

>>1029725
>>1029726
I mean dual gauge but right the power supply and floor level would be hard

File: download (12).jpg (65KB, 578x291px) Image search: [Google]

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I'm down to go drinking and ride streetcars and other transit in Toronto and discuss the future of transit in this city this weekend

25m no homo
Hmu [email protected]

>>1029734
>The finch line isn't being built until after Eglinton opens in 2021

You do know utility relocation on Finch began this year right? Metrolinx has already put out te contracts. Construction is expected to begin next year. Its the Sheppard East line that won't start construction until after the Crosstown, assuming it can survive 2 more election cycles.

>>1029726
>Litteraly no mention of the DRL
>Surface LRT on Don Mills
>Not just extending the DRL to Don Mills Station like Metrolinx and every other transit planner on the planet says

As far as I am concerned all future transit expansions (Subway and LRT) beyond what is already on the books should be held off until the DRL is built. Simple as that.

>>1029777
>DRL
I thought drl just went from Pape to Osgood? But ill be honest i did forget about it when i made that post

>>1029777
>You do know utility relocation on Finch began this
Why aren't they building it on the hydro corridor?

>>1029780
The cities plan is for it to go from Pape to Osgoode. However Metrolinx has been pretty much screaming that it needs to go up to Don Mills.The DRL the city wants to build will get rid of the bottle neck at Yonge and fix thew capacity issues in the core, however it doesn't fix the capacity issues on the Yonge Line itself since that problem starts further north. Metrolinx wants the DRL to Don Mills since it would allow YRT to move some of their routes out of Finch Station and into Don Mills. This would strip away a good number of passengers from Finch plus the connection to the Crosstown at Eglinton would pull some of the ridership at Eglinton Station which is pretty much where the Yonge line reaches its max. Pretty much the big three problem areas on the Yonge Line are Finch, Sheppard and Eglinton so having the DRL go to Don Mills would intercept riders from 2 of those problem areas. As for Finch I have no doubt that some YRT routes could terminate further east at Don Mills.

>>1029781
Because Hydro is notorious for being more than unwilling to share their corridors.

>>1029785
This would literally render the sheppard line obsolete

If this were the case sheppard should extend to Downsview to give the 3 lines a northern connection
People could then go up DLR, west to Downsview North to finch then west of the Finch LRT

Anyway those TBM from the Eglinton line should already be digging either Scarborough or DLR
Fuck bureaucracy

>>1029785
Are you from York Region? I'm from Halton but work downtown Toronto

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>>1029786
One of the big things holding back a western extension is Earl Bales Park. The extension would face literally the same problem York Mills Station did. York Mills was originally intended to be above ground like Old Mill but area residents fucked that plan up so the TTC instead had to dig under the ravine. The subway platform itself sits directly under the branch of the Don River that passes through the area. The Sheppard line would face the same problem, we would either need to bridge over Earl Bales which you know will not go over well with the locals. Or we would have to dig under Earl Bales which would be expensive and have a nasty grade decent. Pic related is the original York Mills plan

>>1029788
From Scarborough

>>1029792
Wanna be my friend?

>>1029792
Isnt there already tunnels halfway to what is now Downsview?

>>1029797
>>1029792
Srsly this is me
>>1029768

I'm an okay dude

>>1029798
I guess you could say there is. The tail tracks west of Sheppard Station do extend out to Senlac Road where you can find an Exit from the tunnels. Said exit is currently used by operators who pick up the first run train and drop off the last run. That being said should the subway ever go west the exit would more than likely be used as the base for Senlac Station which as you know was part of the original plan.

However most proposal I've seen now for an extension west seem to have dropped Senlac Station and Faywood Station. Bathrust North seems to be the only station that would be built.

>>1029807
>Bathrust North
Id expect this but the tunneling wouldn't be as extensive

The biggest thing with the sheppard line is getting it somewhere relevant

>>1029809
Well Downsview is one we should strive for at some point not just because I would close a gap, but because it would also eliminate a nasty bottle neck in train operations on the YUS (i.e a connection to Wilson Yard). As for the east end I bleive the big missed oppertunity is at Victoria Park since it the Consumers Road area is home to hundreds of work places. It has developed nicely without a station but I can only imagine how much better it would be if they had one.

I am worried the same fate will befall the Finch West line simply because its current incarnation leaves a large gap. As you know the Line will run from Finch West to Humber College but the gap from Finch West to Finch Station is Phase 2 and looking at the Sheppard Line I have a feeling phase 2 will never get built.

>>1029810
All we need is either finch phase2 or sheppard to downsview

Anyway hmu
[email protected]

>>1029810
Opinion on bus rapid transit lanes?

>>1029980
I have nothing against them. Streets like Ellesmere and Kingston Road could probably benefit greatly from BRT. Ellemere specifically because a BRT from Scarborogh Center to UTSC would be a vital link for eastern Scarborough. Kingston Road because a link from say Victoria Park to Kingston Road and Eglinton (connecting to the Scarborough-Malvern LRT) would be vital for south-eastern Scarborough, it would be a good by-pass around the Subway should it ever be needed, and it would be nice to see the final segment of the old Scarborough interurban be brought back.

I think Finch East could probably benefit from one but I don't think the road is wide enough through its entirety to support BRT lanes. Not to mention that if we where to put a BRT on Finch to me it would need to go to Morningside and connect to the Scarborough-Malvern LRT which to would need to be extended north from Sheppard.

>>1029986
>Scarborough-Malvern LRT
When's this supposed to be built? Is this what Eglinton east is going to be?

>>1029997
We don't really know when it is supposed to be built. It is included with the Scarborough Subway plan and was funded..... briefly. After the cost of the Subway jumped to 3.5 Billion the LRT money was eaten up. Currently it is still an official part of the Subway Extension plan but there really isn't any money for it anymore. Obviously the city is trying to find a way to pay for it but you and I know they will half ass it.

>>1030001
>Obviously the city is trying to find a way to pay for it but you and I know they will half ass it.
With added tolls on the DVP and Gardiner I read that the city could collect $200m each year which will go toward transit and infrastructure. There's also the rebuild of the Gardiner east which has to happen sometime in the next 10 years

File: Medellin.jpg (224KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

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The Ayacucho Tram in Medellín, Colombia.

This station is San Antonio, there are connections to both metro lines (A and B).

The tram line features half-height platform screen doors at all stations. It uses Transhlor STE5s.

>>1030033
Post a map of the network

>>1030033
>translohr
>latin america fucking up public transit yet again
WHY THE FUCK REEEEEEEEE

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>>1030042
The tram is labled as T-A.

>>1030045
what are the cable cars like?

>>1030045
Why is there a connection between K and L? Couldn't they run a single line all the way across?

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>>1030043
The route of the tram is along a slope.

Just like how rubber-tired metros work best for climbing steeper gradients, Transhlor would be a better option for this situation.

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>>1030046
I don't live there, but they seem really cool.

I think its quite an ingenious (and obvious) idea for urban transport in areas with higher elevations.

>>1030047
Line K is used for transporting actual commuters. Line L is a tourist line that goes to Arví Park; an extra is required.

>>1030049
>use biarticulated trolleybuses
>almost the same capacity
>but at a way lower cost because it's not a proprietary tech
there's no excuse. Translohr = fuckup.

>>1030056
Fair enough.

>>1030049
>Just like how rubber-tired metros
Montreal has this, I always thought it was just a poor man's subway

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>>1030148
It is. Rubber tires are somewhere in between regular rail and rack railway in terms of slopes.

Pic related. This tram can climb up to 20% slopes.

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>>1030157
I wonder what the maximum slope is without the rack.
Some of our street cars go into tunnels to let passengers off at platform level with he subway. The tunnels seem kind of steep.

>>1030163
the steepest adhesion streetcar service is apparently in Lisbon but I didn't find any information about the slopes. Then there is Pöstlingbergbahn in Linz, Austria with maximum slope of 11.6 % which is damn impressive.

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>>1030163
As this anon said >>1030167 it's in Lisbon. Their trams can take 13.5% slopes.

>>1030157
but then there are some systems like the eastern part of Taipei metro and Xiamen BRT uses tire-based vehicles instead of regular rail

>>1030167
I know thatthere was a proposal for the Hong Kong tram system to extend eastward, but the slope toward the east end of the system is 10% which is too steep for the tram. But trams in Hobg Kong are double layered and is rather narrow so they have a high center of gravity and limited power which would restrict their slope climbing capability

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About time
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/test-car-bombardier-1.3870480

>>1030450
Hamilton has been following Toronto's experience with this. You know the province owns the line not the city?

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>>1028344

when it's summer you better walk by foot than get aboard on these, obviously they don't have AC and the windows don't open enough to allow a better air recirculation inside. in timisoara the temperatures can get up to 40 celsius degrees in the summer and inside these carts can reach above 50. but in the winter they are quite well to travel with, even the radiators inside them are very old they still generate enough heat to heat up the entire cart.

many of these old german trams ended up in romanian cities and they still rolling even they have a lot of years of usage.

>>1030805
everyone, go and fap to hansawagens...

>>1030805
I have 2 questions when I see them:

1) Why do Romanian cities buy these old old old second-hand trams when many of them actually had pretty young domestic trams from 80's and 90's. I know they weren't probably perfect but I can't see no imrovement when they changed them for these.

2) who the hell designed that livery

>>1030805
>>1030836
I think that livery is awesome.

>>1030836
>they weren't probably perfect but I can't see no imrovement when they changed them for these
You couldn't make a bigger mistake than this.
In the 80s in Romania, they tried to build some new tram systems in other cities, but for most of them they didn't have acceptable rolling stock. URAC V2/V3 seemed to be good enough, but they produced too few, and were too expensive to have them in all cities. Plus, they didn't have the solo tramcar variant.
Speaking about the solo tramcars with optional trailers: for these needs they could buy this massive shit named Timiș 2. I don't know who actually planned that, but the fact that most of those trams produced in the late 70s and 80s disappeared until the end of 90s surely makes you think a lot. Maybe in all cities which bought T2s we could find much older tramcars (ITB trains or older) simultaneously running with those new "trams" just because they could run better and safer than those craps.

>>1030926
*Maybe in all cities which had tram system from earlier and bought T2s*

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>>1030827
they also have the hansawagen's bigger cousin, the Rathgeber P 3.16.

question: Why can't BRT on BRT-only roads run as fast as regular rails? Surely modern buses can speed up to 130km/h?

>>1031097
Because they break very frequently and liability I'm sure.

>>1031098
Why would you need to brake on a BRT-only road?

>>1031103
My conception if brt is it's not an express service, it serves many stops along the way. Each stop involves breaking. Going from 130kmh to zero, then back to 130? It would also burn tons more fuel.

>>1031107
I am talking about those BRT being setup as an alternative to abandoned rails stations are often kilometers away

>>1031116
Well as I said, going 130 would burn more fuel

>>1031119
But if buses can go as far as rail then it shall be able to cut much of local opposition against service conversion to BRT.

>>1031122
I don't really know what your argument is, why not just use rail then?

>>1031126
Expensive to maintain those rails when it is used by less than a thousand or even a hundred people per kilometer per day.

>>1031132
*people kilometer per km per day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMhjxp_CZng

Are they leaving full stretches of track without lines?

>>1031096
Caricatures used to be something. This one is so overdone it's just cringeworthy.

>>1031094
German trams are the best trams.

Some of these were built in the 60's and they are still working until now.

File: Caen.jpg (318KB, 1000x1488px) Image search: [Google]

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If you want, vote on a tram design for Caen, France. (requires an email)

http://design.tramway2019.com/choisir-design/les-3-designs

(Pick your favourite design, and click "Je Valide" at the bottom of the page. On the next page, enter your city under "Votre Ville" and your email under "Votre Adresse Email". To finish click "Je confirme moi choix".)

A tram system will replace the unreliable guided bus system by 2019. The trams that will be used are Citadis X05s.

http://www.metro-report.com/news/single-view/view/caen-orders-alstom-trams.html

>>1031477
Nice, I just voted for the second design. I hope I won't be spammed with ads now.

>>1031332
kelly cartoons are produced for the onion, so do the maths

>>1031477
I'm okay with all apart from number 1, it truly sucks.

>>1025969
sure go ahead. I probably only visited it 2 times in my life although if lived all my live within 700 metres from it.

>>1031631
Two and three are the exact same desing, except for color.

>>1031096
holy fucking shit please tell me that cartoon is supposed to be ironic

>>1032310
It's from the fucking Onion, what do you think?

I will just leave this here.
>>>/wsg/1411716

>>1032413
What is going on? Why are the bikers riding wherever they want and why is that "tram" not stopping?

>>1032510
>why is that "tram" not stopping?

Tram never stops.

shouldn't this thread really be merged with /brt/?

>>1032556
Was this a poor attempt at a joke?

>>1032510
In america you catch tram. In Soviet Russia tram catches you!

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>>1032560
maybe

>>1029585
>tfw Bombardier also shat the bed in Europe fucking up deliveries for locos, rail cars and trams
>tfw their order book is exploding and yet they plan on closing down atleast 1 branch in Germany, maybe even two and firing hundreds of workers
>Np guys, we'll still build your ordered stuff, set them up and make them work in the same time span

Send help.

>>1032624
If the feds bail them out for the fucking airplane then it will free up capital to move ahead on other projects

>>1032640
Their planes are also getting quite a lot of order i think?

>>1032648
The issue is the company put so much of it's capital investment in the aircraft that their other industries have lagged behind

>>1032660
I'm not familiar with their business but last time I read about it the commentary said that need to further invest on their plane building industry in order to take customer from the long Boeing/Airbus queue to their's and profit from them

>>1032668
Yeah the C Series jet is a big deal because it's the first jet to enter the market since the1980s. Boeing and airbus basically have a monopoly on commercial aircraft in western countries, so the fact Bombardier is breaking into that market is a big deal. The problem is the company tied up all of its capital in the aeronomics sector so production elsewhere has suffered

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These three german cites opened new tram lines last weekend:

Mainz a 9.2 km line past the university into various western suburbs

Munich a 1.2 km line (plus some until now unexpoilted depot tracks) to the S-Bahn station Berg am Laim

Nürnberg a 2.4 km extension northwards. This track will eventually become part of a new interurban tram to Erlangen, which will then become the fourth german city build a new tram system after 1990.

>>1033681
nice

are there any other new tram lines u/c in Germany?

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>>1033790
The latest extension of my city's network is one year and one week old today.

File: Tacoma.jpg (1MB, 1440x960px) Image search: [Google]

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Škoda 10 T on the Tacoma Link, in Tacoma, Washington.

Although this line is only 1.6 miles long (2.6 km), 2 additional extensions are planned (Hilltop extension, 2.4 miles by 2022. Tacoma Community College extension, 4.4 miles long by 2039.)

>>1033935
Your city doesn't exist, bub

>>1033790
Plenty. Have this list from some other forum I translated:

Augsburg: Tram tunnel under the main station, opens 2022
Berlin: U5 subway, opens 2019
Chemnitz: Reichenhainer Str. plus tram-train to Thalheim, opens 2017
Düsseldorf: Rath extension to ISS-Dome, opens 2017
Frankfurt Main: Europaviertel light rail line, partly underground, opens 2022
Freiburg: last part of the fairgrounds line, opens 2018 and Rotteckring line, opens in parts 2017 and 2018.
Hamburg: U4 subway one-stop extension, opens 2018
Hannover: new surface stop at the main station, opens 2017, Hemmingen light rail, opens 2020
Heidelberg: Bahnstadt line south of the main station, opens 2018
Karlsruhe: tram tunnel, opens 2020, Kriegsstr. tram line with auto tunnel below, opens 2021, Knielingen Nord extension, opens 2017?
Köln: north-south light rail tunnel (the one that collapsed a few years ago), will now fully open 2019, one-stop extension in Mengenich, opens 2017?
Madgeburg: Wiener Str., opens 2017
Naumburg: This heritage streetcar line has collected enough donations to rebuild the former line for one more stop to Salztor, might open 2017?
Potsdam: Jungfernsee extension, opens 2017
Stuttgart: U12 light rail via Budapester Platz (to cover the new areas that will be made available by Stuttgart 21) and Hallschlag-Münster, both open 2017
Ulm: new line 2, which will double the current network lenght, Kuhberg branch opens 2017, university branch opens 2018

>>1034034
Nice meme

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>>1033990
>by 2039.

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>>1033990
HAHAHAHAHHAA YOU FAILED SO HARD HAHAHAHAHHAA

File: Tbilisi.jpg (126KB, 830x462px) Image search: [Google]

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Tbilisi, Georgia. 1962.

Compared to 2013:
http://speakingstones.jumpstart.ge/en?pairing=110

>>1035116
Is that a tram made from trolleybus moduls?

Shame they closed down the system in 2006.

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>>1035137
>Is that a tram made from trolleybus moduls?

If you'd read the link, it says "PCC standard bogies", so this would hint that Tatra has been a subcontractor for the bogies and probably the rest of the electric parts.

The same thing, 40 years later. It even droops similarly from the middle.

I think they use some sort of lever system to align the middle-section.

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Merry Christmas /n/!

>>1035161
Are you sure Tatra was a subcontractor? The tram on your picture looks imho incredibly primitive and I doubt Tatra was taking a part in that. There were also other producers in eastern block making PCC bogies. Konstal, RVZ, Ust-Katav, Leningrad, etc

File: Amsterdam, Christmas Tram.jpg (335KB, 1535x1024px) Image search: [Google]

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Merry Christmas

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>>1036198
>There were also other producers in eastern block making PCC bogies.

Oh, I wasn't aware of that.

The tram on my picture is a some variation of Tatra KT4, modified to KTNF6, with a low floor middle section by Alstom, that didn't perform very well. KT4 itself was and is well-liked for what it is.

It's a followup for T3 and T4, with exactly the same PCC-licenced tech, but articulated at the middle to accomodate for loading gauges where even T4 couldn't fit. These too were designed for multiple unit operation.

>>1036216
Well I obviously meant the tram on this picture >>1035116 you replied to. KT4 is Tatra ofc.

>>1036216
I'm sure I've seen this pic before on villamosok.hu.

How profitable does a tram line/network has to be, to be feasible? Is it worth it to build a tram line in a small town (below 10k inhabitants)?

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>>1030179
The steepest that hill that i know here is this hill, tram usually speed up but i think it can start in it as well.

>>1036715
Also the camera is angled up so it is even steepet than it looks.

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>>1036715

>>1036717
10/10

>>1036692
I seriously wonder if there is even a single tram network that is profitable.
They are mostly (if not in all cases) subsidized, you know.

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>>1036717
ftfy

>>1036766
>implying theres a dicotomy
Lots and lots of extremely profitable ventures are subsidised. Some show even greater profitability the greater the subsidies are. Public transport being the classic example.

Also, common double standards; car travel is extremely subsidised. Roads are built and maintained at public expense with no fucks given about externalities or alternative cost.
Why are tram/train travel supposed to make a profit at the operator level? No other mode of transportation has profitability measured thusly.

>>1036770
Well the question is what was this anon >>1036692 even trying to ask.

Is there a non-subsidized profitable tram network? Most probably no.

Is there a subsidized tram network that makes some profit to the company that takes the money from the client, aka municipality? Well yeah, probably lots of them, but on the other hand most of these tram running companies are also municipality owned. At least where I come from. That means that the profit doesn't go to anyone's private pocket but it basically just decreases the amount of money the city has to pump into the network. In other words, the profit is zero.

So if you wonder if one can start to run his own tram network business and try to make some money on it, then most probably no. This is not possible.

Or if you wonder if it is feasible to the 10k town to run the tram network and don't go bankrupt. Well, most likely also no. Only if it is a really rich town which has some really busy traffic.

>>1036771
Again with the weird definition of profitability. It doesn't have to "earn" money. It just has to save money. If it's cheaper than roads and private transport, then it's profitable. It can still be a massive money sink and never recover the cost from tickets or what ever - in fact it doesn't have to have any revenue at all. It can still be a very profitable investment, far from running any municipality into the ground. The expense is covered by tax and the tax expenses offset by not having to own a car. Profit all around.
learn2socioeconomics

>>1036785
>If it's cheaper than roads

I doubt you can cut any relevant costs of road building and maintenance by building a tram network. It really has to be a big and busy network to work that way.
The only possible profit is for private business and estate values. But again that profit doesn't come for any particular person or company but for a whole society as such which I don't argue about. But the question is again, what exactly was this anon >>1036692 asking?

>>1036829
>I doubt you can cut any relevant costs of road building and maintenance by building a tram network.
Every person using it is one and a half tonnes of steel less. A tram car replaces ever car on a street when used to capacity. Which happens to be during the hours that roads are completely backed up, so...

>>1036851
That is a very wrong assumption of course. You can't just say that every single passanger in a tram would otherwise just drive a car.

>>1036953
No, you could say they'd otherwise stay at home, not shop, not work and not contribute to the economy. But yes, you could say that every single passenger on a tram would travel by car if there were no tram. Because that's the way we develop transport infrastructure - to accommodate a certain volume of travellers.
If you're building to have ten thousand travels down a certain stretch in rush hour, you can either build MEGALANES that will be backed up no matter what, or one motor lane and a tram and a huge sidewalk and a nice shrubbery and a market and an open air café and cut down on noise, emissions and societal cost.

>>1036976
Interesting. So people can't walk or cycle or take a bus, especially when we consider the usually short lengths the tram lines cover, right?

>>1036996
Only if you provide them the space. In which case you need to get rid of the cars by building trams to build walkways and bike path and all the other things I talked about. But now it's just about being contrarian to you, isn't it, and what is said doesn't even matter.

Muh car, right?

>>1036998
Lol, stop being so passive aggressive and better provide some proofs because your claims are the biggest bullcrap I read here. Can you show me some example where all passangers in the tram agree that if they didn't take the tram they would go by car? Of course you can't. You can also try some secondary proofs. Is there any example of recent construction of a tram line that reduced road lanes and number of car commuters in such a big way that it also reduced the road maintenance costs or future plans of building new roads? I can think of many new lines in UK, Germany, France, Switzerland, Poland, but nowhere i can see the tram line directly preventing the construction of new roads. More than that in many cases it's directly the opposite. The new line comes with a new street.

Also how the hell is building of walking and cycling paths and cafés (lol) exactly connected to tram?

Your utopia sounds nice theoretically but it doesn't work that way, that tram reduces road costs in some huge way.

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Guangzhou, China.

Supercapacitor tram by CSR Zhuzhou.

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>>1037729
>carrying the weight of the supercapacitors along a fixed infrastructure
>instead of just feeding the electricity off the infrastructure via catenary or 3rd rail

>>1037764
Obviously the catenary would destroy the beautiful citysca- oh wait.

>>1037764
planned economy, my friend
when you have more capacity in supercapacitors factories than in 3rd rail factories, then you have to use the capacitors

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>>1037770
>>1037780

>>1036715
Where in Gothenburg is this?

>>1037828
Nevermind, found it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@57.699397,11.9379628,3a,75y,293.34h,77.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTaABDY5fpIs-w7ZdHQ63ww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e2

>>1037729
>>1037770
If this "tram" is entirely grade separated, why not just use a goddamn third rail?

>>1037878
because bubble economy

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Turku, Finland. 1963.

>>1036829
In Hokkaido, Japan, before WWII, there are some light railway network connecting settlements before a road can be built to those settlement. So I think it is definitely cheaper to build rail than road in those case.

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>>1039159
Sadly they scrapped their trams and replaced with ((buses)). New light rail is on table but city politicians haven't got to decide. http://www.turku.fi/en/light%20rail

In inland, the City of Tampere just in fall decided to start building the light rail system.
Now it's winter so tracks can't be laid down but they are cutting the trees. Whole system is going to be basically Finland made from tracks to rolling stock which is good for this suffering economy unlike the Western Metro extension in Helsinki.

It was very frustrating to watch the City council stream about deciding the light rail. Centre Party was forcing the BRT-meme and True Finns were yelling that electric buses is the solution. Some person was complaining how the new light rail is going to be so quiet that deaf persons can't hear it and it will be dangerous death trap because of that.

The rolling stock is Skoda branded because they bought the Transtech company but made in Finland and based to the Helsinki new tram that has been successful.

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Buenos Aires, Argentina.

A tram built by Materfer on the Premetro line.

>>1039351
>so quiet that deaf persons can't hear it
No matter how much noise it makes they wouldn't be able to hear it...

>>1039351
The link does not work for me.
Watching public or political debates about transport infrastructure is always frustrating for rail enthusiasts. Right wingers go against any kind of usable public transport. Social democrats get caught up in their rules and regulations and NIMBYs ruin everything for everyone, forever. I already posted about the desaster going on in Bielefeld-Brackwede earlier ITT.
Back to Turku: I really like the idea that the whole thing is going to be made in Finland. Are there any maps or news regarding the new system? Who is building Western Metro?
>>1039775
Why did you privatize your railways? You were almost a first-world country
>>1039916
That is the joke

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>>1039919
Apparently the page has disappeared, can't find it. Finnish version is up and running though.

>>1039919
>I really like the idea that the whole thing is going to be made in Finland
Turku system has been on city council table but nothing has decided. In general the system will be technically same as the new Tampere light rail because some cooperation contract.
But yes, I like it too. Finnish rolling stock like the trams and trains has been proven to work in these climates. Only perfect foreign rolling stock has been built by Stadler and their Flirt trains, no problems with them.

>Are there any maps or news regarding the new system?
Blue is the first phase, red's the second.
Before they planned to do the Skanssi section instead the Raisio.

>Who is building Western Metro?
Western metro in Helsinki was a mash of different companies.
Not sure of the tracks, but the new rolling stock was CAF build and signalling was by Siemens. The Siemens signalling was the problem because it was planned that Siemens would turn the system into automatic operation but there was some corruption-tier stuff and disagreements and suprise costs. Also the Western extension platforms are shorter than existing ones (90m while existing are 135m) meaning that the whole systems has to short down. They have started the 4 car operation, which is frustrating in rush hour because there is the space for 2 cars more.

The opening has been delayed by years now and there were problems like 3rd rail wrongly installed and shit fireproofing.

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>>1039955
Tampere map, red section is under construction.

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Houston, Texas.

A two-stop extension of the METRORail Green Line to Magnolia Park Transit Center has opened on Wednesday, January 11, 2017.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/transportation/article/After-rocky-ride-Metro-s-East-End-rail-line-set-10846049.php

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>>1040834
Map.

The two new stations are Cesar Chavez/67th Street and Magnolia Park Transit Center.

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>>1039955
>Turku system has been on city council table but nothing has decided.

I really hope Turku keeps this on its agenda long enough to see how the other big tram projects are coming up. By other projects I mean Tampere system and Jokeri "quick tramway", Laajasalo tramway and bridge construction will start a bit later I think.

>In general the system will be technically same as the new Tampere light rail because some cooperation contract.

I have understood there has been nothing of this sort in planning. They started by doing the feasibility studies in unison but bit by bit Turku has lagged behind.

They also have had some plans on rolling stock joint purchases, but even this wouldn't necessarily lock the cities into full system compatibility, the cities could end up using different gauges for example.

By this I mean the issue on gauges has been a heated topic. The study was conducted even for "Jokeri", and it ended up recommending metre gauge with flying colors for future compatibility with existing Helsinki system, even though Jokeri will use bidirectional stock.

In Tampere the studies recommended standard gauge, so that was what they picked, but the moans for broad gauge were quite loud, maybe because in the original plans the Tampere tram was envisioned as a kind of Karlsruhe-like system that would have partially used railroads, but apparently the existing rails are out of capacity and it would be cheaper for the city to build a tramway tracks alongside the railway rather than start the heavy system that is needed to build more railways.

I Turku, the situation is more open. Even metre gauge is a distant possibility, for the city once had a metre gauge tramway, but in Turku the railways have plenty of capacity, so a possibility for railway integration and treating a dual standard trams as a kind budget of local train substitute may be too juicy to miss. (Only Helsinki currently has proper local trains due reasons.)

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Tram from Shelburn Falls in western Massachusetts. They restored it to working order when i was a kid and it was the coolest thing.

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>>1041392
The town also makes use of the old rail bridge as a linear garden and pedestrian way.

>>1032902
FUUUUTURRE

>>1041392
>>1041394

Very cosy.

>>1041383
>metre gauge for future compatibility with existing Helsinki system, even though Jokeri will use bidirectional stock.
Isn't Jokeri right in the middle of Helsinki? It would make sense to build it with the same gauge, unless you want to have two completely separate and incompatible systems in the same city.
>the moans for broad gauge were quite loud, maybe because in the original plans the Tampere tram was envisioned as a kind of Karlsruhe-like system
By broad gauge you mean the Russian gauge of the national railways, right? The difference between that and standard gauge is fairly small, so standard gauge wouldn't have any real advantage. It would be cool to just double the existing track and run all kinds of trams and trains over it.

I think we can learn a lot from modern Finnish transport planning and policies. Here in Germany, the largest city without rail-borne public transport is Münster at a population of 310 000. That is more than the second-largest city in Finland, Espoo. And there are couple more cities between 100 000 and 300 000 which are only served by buses, and which could really use some feasibility studies for some form of light rail or even metro.

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>>1041654
In Finland our major problem when it comes to public transport is the Centre Party. It's just nimby rural peoples party that is known for pumping money from wealthy urban South to rural Northern Finland.

They have huge bus company-mafia behind them which is reason why projects like light rail or new train lines never got foward but instead they force the BRT-meme.
Because it's a rural people party it's no suprise that they are just planning suburbs and trying to take down apartment building projects.

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San Francisco, California.

The first Siemens S200 LRV has arrived.

https://www.sfmta.com/about-sfmta/blog/your-first-new-muni-train-san-francisco

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Paris, France.

T9 will begin at Porte de Choisy with connections to Métro Line 7 and T3a. It will run south towards Fer à cheval, passing through Paris, Ivry-sur-Seine, Vitry-sur-Seine, and Choisy-le-Roi. A connection to the future Métro Line 15 is available at Vitry Centre (Hôtel de Ville de Vitry on the map).

http://www.tramway-t9.fr/

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>>1042229
A "design a tram" survey for T9.

http://www.design-futur-tram.fr/

(Pick your favourite design, and interior, enter "94400 " under "Merci D'indiquer Votre Code Postal", and click "OK".)

[Interior B and C have different ceilings. "94400 " is the postal code of Vitry-sur-Seine, a commune that the tram line will run through. ]

>>1031477
The third design won.

>>1041757
That's funny, it's the other way around here. The North is more rural, but traditionally votes for the social democratic party (SPD), while the more urbanized center and the south vote conservative (CDU/CSU). There is an eery correlation between predominant Christian confession and political party. I don't quite know what the main inhibiting factor for transport planning is, but citizen's initiatives by wealthy people and businessmen (read: NIMBYs) are a large issue.
>>1042225
>>1042229
Nice
>>1042230
Is voting for a train design a common thing in France? Seems like a marketing strategy more than anything else to me.

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>>1042231
>Is voting for a train design a common thing in France?

Somewhat. It's more of a recent trend.

Siemens had also offered different designs of the S200 LRV for Calgary and San Francisco (>>1042225).

>>1042225
Reminds me of Tatras.

>>1042230
The interior design C also got full seats, with seat connected to back. The two other got these separate. There are also some other minor differences, between all three.

I think the exterior's third design looks best, and the first interior would be most comfortable.

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>>1041383
Where in Sweden is this?

>>1042236
Is that a rendering of Muni light rail trains on a cable car line, judging by the gradient?

>>1042318
>>>/int/

>>1042318
>>1042318
I think it's Stockholm. SL Stockholm Landtrafik.

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This cutie takes me to work every single day.

>>1042349
Very cute indeed

>>1042342
>>1042318
I thought Stockholm trams were blue and this livery and tram model looks 100% Helsinki, but whatever you say.

>>1042356
Helsinki is not in Sweden

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>>1042231
>voting for a train design
Karlsruhe's tram company a few years ago asked the readers of their marketing pamphlet which type of yellow to use on a new livery.
The two spectacular, highly controversial options were signal yellow or dahlia yellow.
Two trains were painted in the two options.

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>>1042376
The result was the darker dahlia yellow. The red stripe was already decided as signal red though, no need to ask the public for that.

So far about 20 trains were repainted into that scheme (only when new paint was necessary).

>>1042357
It's not in Sweden then.

>>1042230
The third one will get picked up because the two first ones will share the votes of people who dislike the ugly large beak/beard, even though they are the majority.
Putain, politics always do that shit.

>>1042376
>>1042377
Incredible.
I recently read in an article that Karlsruhe is the German city where you're the most likely to get hit by a tram. Are there really so many accidents happening there? In my hometown, most accidents involving trams are caused by cagers too stupid to correctly follow their GPS or look over their shoulder.

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Luxembourg City, Luxembourg.

The first tram for Luxtram is being tested at CAF's factory in Zaragoza, Spain.

The tramline will also feature a catenary-free section. :^)

http://www.metro-report.com/news/single-view/view/first-luxembourg-tram-on-test.html

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>>1042330 >>1042342 >>1042356 >>1042357 >>1042506

It's an Adtranz/Bombardier 1st gen low floor Variotram or Variobahn in these pictures, in Helsinki Finland and the context for this decoration is that this tram did some sort of round tour on the day there were the big pride marched.

(These pictures >>1041383 >>1042318)

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>>1041654
>Isn't Jokeri right in the middle of Helsinki?
I wouldn't say, it's route is norther than any existing tram line.

>so standard gauge wouldn't have any real advantage
Tampere saw standard gauge more desirable because that (or metre gauga) is the gauge on off the shelf-design trams.

Unfortunately small order of five foot gauge trams adds some cost to design. And ordering from Russia is not really a possibility due approvaol processes for import vehicles.

The only possibility I see this happening if the political swindle lands building such units for Skoda Transtech factory in Kajaani.

>>1042864
I see. Then maybe meter gauge is the best choice after all. My city uses meter gauge as well and it is one of the coolest systems I know.

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I want to fuck this tram. God damn this thing is slick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZzWU_oVVXA

>>1032902
Imagine getting run over by this thing. Usually the front slopes to the sides and back so that if it hits somebody, the person will be pushed out of the way. This looks like it's been designed to suck people under it

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>>1043255
>ground-level power supply
>no overhead wires

>>1043256
>This looks like it's been designed to suck people under it
METAL
AS
FUCK

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>>1043194
>my city
And what that would be? ;-)

I already told mine.

>>1042349
Is that a bi-directional single track or does it run on another bridge in the other direction?

>>1042811
>The tramline will also feature a catenary-free section. :^)
gay. catenary gets way more autism points.

>>1043326
It's a single track with road traffic, with left-hand-running for every second tram.

Video related it older, but aside from the lowfloor rolling stock and the line being renamed, nothing changed until now. This year the bridge itself will be double-tracked, the section in the video will stay the same though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFz6vri18Co

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>>1043314
Bielefeld. I assume yours is Helsinki?

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>>1043336
This pleases my autism.

We used to have an interurban line which closed in 1965, and outside the city center it had a single-track alignment on the side of the road. One of the excuses to shut it down, apart from not having gotten new rolling stock since the 1920's, was "hurr dangerous"

I'm jelly of your trams.

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>>1043451
Yep. And nice.

Bielefield is one of the few cities that actually developed their tramway into a proper light metro like system. Nice, except these widened cars are quite ugly.

Are you having problems with accessibility requirements thanks to mixed high and low platform usage?

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>>1043481
>Bielefield is one of the few cities that actually developed their tramway into a proper light metro like system. Nice, except these widened cars are quite ugly.
Thanks. I can see why you might think that, but they're quite impressive in real life. They remind me of spaceships and they're really comfortable to ride. Much better than the older trams, especially in rush hour traffic.
>Are you having problems with accessibility requirements thanks to mixed high and low platform usage?
Yes. Back in the eighties, before the system was converted to partially grade-separated light rail, the people in charge opted for high-floor vehicles instead of low-floor technology. Currently, there are 64 stops, 50 of which are accessible because they are underground or because they have raised platforms. A bill was passed to have complete accessibility until 2022 in the whole country, so these last few stops have to be equipped with platforms as well.
This is met with resistance by a group of stupid people who own or work in shops and doctor's offices on the street in pic related. They don't want platforms in their street because they might lose customers. They don't want the rails to be put into a parallel street because they might lose customers. They want the city to build an entirely separate system of low-floor trams just for this one street, or even better, buy a fleet of trolleybuses. Their ideas of transport planning are pants-on-head retarded.

>>1043517
I can see why you might think that. Helsinki is a consevative city so the new trams still look like trams and give a tram-like but comfy ride.

You see, not only track gauge but loading gauge has been a topic on Jokeri construction. As of now it seems they are going to build it for 2.4 m vehicles on platform level, instead of 2.65. The loading gauge will allow 2.65 above platform, so that sort of muffin-top trams may be a real possibility. Depends how dear the planner hold that jokeri vehicles may operate in the city center, it is obvious they see the unidirectional city center stock may need to use Jokeri tracks in the near future, hence why metre gauge and 2.4 m vehicle width on platform level.

Also depends on how much Jokeri (and utopia future lightrail) vehicles need to operate in the old network, meaning if the jokeri vehicles will be built for the 25 m minimum curveradius of jokeri track, or 15 m radius of the old network.

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>>1043535
I have nothing against your Helsinkiän trams. I was only talking about the vehicles of my city. We still have comfy old M8Cs from the 1980s, which look similar to your Valmets. They are mostly used on line 3 for some reason, and at night and on the weekend. I love riding these, too, because they are usually fairly empty when I do, and they have a comfy fake wood interior. One of them got converted into a moving museum for last year's 25th anniversary of the light rail.

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>>1043543
Oh goody. I'm not against Bielefieldian muffintop-trams, but am somewhat against muffintop-trams in Helsinki.

They just ought to make the trams 2650 mm wide and use jokeri minimum turn radius as the basis of their design.

In that way when the old and the new systems need to intermix, the old system trams that operate in such section need to have a sliding out doorstep to meet the platform that would be further out.

Unfortunately HKL seems to be deadly against this idea, hence why 2.4 m wide trams.

I just figured out to ask: once Bielefield switches to all high platform, does that significantly hinder the operation of any heritage units there may be?

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>>1043605
>but am somewhat against muffintop-trams in Helsinki.
Like the one in your picture? I don't mind ;)
I agree, a wide enough turning radius is important for future additions to the transit system, if the demand keeps growing.

>I just figured out to ask: once Bielefield switches to all high platform, does that significantly hinder the operation of any heritage units there may be? We only have a vintage tram, a party tram and a rail grinder car from the early sixties, they're all compatible with high floor platforms. The new GTZ 8-B Vamos, however, can only be used on lines 2 and 4, because the other two routes have narrow passages that the new train can't pass. I believe they're slowly working to fix that problem, but I don't know the exact plans.

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>>1043612
Helsinki has like 6 motors and 2 trailers available year around and several more in semipermanent display and even several more in museum storage.

Heritage tram company "Stadin ratikat" operates 2 trams and 1 trailer, does the summer heritage service and round tours. HKL has 2 trams from 60s, one of them Düwag, another earlier Valmet with a Traler. Beyond these they have the bidirectional "replica" of 1910s unit (using some original parts) and a pub tram.

>>1042677
Yes, last year there was a study by an insurance company that counted all accidents involving a tram in Germany from 2009-2011.
They made a ranking of deaths and bad injuries per network lenght.
Karlsruhe was leading with 3 dead + 52 badly injured (which were added together) on the 68.9 km urban tram network (at least I hope they only counted these and not accidents on the outer lines for a correct study). The next ranked cities were Freiburg, Cologne and Chemnitz.

>most accidents involving trams are caused by cagers
According to the study, only 16% of the considered accidents are the tram driver's fault, cars are at 45%.
The dead or badly injured are mostly pedestrians walking red level crossings though.

>>1040835
exactly what is the point of having a purple line if it is using a third of the path of the green line? future extension?

>>1043658
Either that or it is there for reinforcement because that segment gets more traffic.

>>1043635
That's exactly the article I was referring to. I thought as a resident of Karsruhe maybe you can supply a deeper insight, because the special conditions of a tram-train network might cause confusion.

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>>1043658
That map does not display the full network; its purpose is to display the Green Line.

The Purple Line heads southeast.

>>1043658
>>1043820
This is a real shitty map then. They should at least put an arrow on the purple line, as they did with the red one. Besides, who was this map designed for? If you have such a short attention span that you can't look at a map of three short transit lines and figure out where the green one is going, I highly doubt that this is gonna help.
Public transport in Houston is a disgrace. It's a city of way over 2 million people and this the rail system at its core. They deserve a full-fledged metro.

>>1042229
>>1042230

Former Vitry-sur-seine citizen here. That tramway is a fucking low cost sham. the neighboring city Villejuif/kremlin bicetre lobbied intensely to get the 14th metro line running there even tho they got the 7th line finishing here.

The peoples that are currently taking the bus line that will be replaced by the T9 are packed in conga lines of 3/4 articulated buses passing each 5 min and on the entirety of the line condos and social housing are sprouting like mushrooms. This tramway line will not solve anything.

>>1043727
There was one accident last year that was very tram-train specifc, when an express rear-ended a regular tram standing at a stop. This happened right before the switch from the tram network, running on sight, to signal-controlled train operation.
Express trams in general can be a danger, at least one of the three killed during the time of that study was crossing the tracks at a stop in front of an express probably expecting it to stop.

Then again every pre-metro/underground tram line in other cities switches between signal-controlled and on-sight operation and there are also a couple of other cities with express trams that aren't appearing high in the study.

>>1043820
>two stadium stations

>>1043820
>>1044630
Actually 3! What the hell?

>>1043955
Metro is pointless for a sprawled-out city. You don't need high capacity concentrated on a single corridor, you need many corridors with low to medium capacity. This is why most cities in america did well with streetcars all the way up to ww2.
Digging tunnels is too expensive for areas without enough density to really take full advantage of a Metro.

At most you'd need commuter rail for far-out burbs, but only once that you've got your downtown well covered with urban transport, otherwise it's pointless to take the train into the city where there's shit public transit.

>>1044630
>>1044631
I can only see one: EADO/Stadium. What am I missing?
>>1044664
From a quick glance on google earth, it looks like you have a bunch of rail lines radiating from the city center. Are those only used for freight and the occasional Amtrack train? They look like perfect candidates for a commuter rail service to me. Maybe you would need to build some grade-separated crossings and electrification (in case it isn't there already), but then you could have service comparable to the Berlin S-Bahn. The tracks are perfect because they run in straight lines towards the city center. Couple that with light rail and buses in the burbs and it'll be a great system.

>>1044672
obviously the point of commuter rail is to be able to use existing rail lines instead of having to go through the expense of building new ones through urban areas.

As I understand it it's not always easy in burgerland to be able to improve rail lines to commuter standard (double track, proper stations, possibly electrification) because they're privately owned.

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>>1043955
>This is a real shitty map then. They should at least put an arrow on the purple line, as they did with the red one.

Pretty sure the Green Line map had a fuck-up. The Purple Line map shows the Green Line with an arrow.

>>1044672
>What am I missing?
Red Line: Stadium Park/Astrodome
Purple Line: Robertson/UH/TSU

...But wait, there's more!

Dryden/TMC Station is within walking distance to Rice Stadium, Reckling Park, and Rice University: Soccer Stadium.

Bell Station is less half a mile away from the Toyota Center.

Convention District Station serves the Minute Maid Park.

Stadium Park/Astrodome Station serves the NRG Stadium, the NRG Astrodome, and the NRG Arena.

There is also a few smaller venues at Elgin/Third Ward Station.

>>1044785
I still don't get your point about stadiums? Is it wrong that the line serves them or what?

>>1044840
You can pass 8 stadiums (all with a capacity of 5000 people or more) on a 9 mile trip on the MetroRail.

I just find that amusing.

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I think I haven't seen any pictures from Lviv's tram network extrension to Sykhiv on this board yet. It's a major extension serving large area on the south of the city. The construction itself is a miracle in today's economically broke Ukraine.
However, I have very mixed feelings about this. I mean, the execution looks very ancient with using prefabricated blocks construction of the tracks which requires frequent and costly maintanance. Something I can't see happening on the Ukraine.
Also there's only one line operating there with short and low capacity trams like Czechoslovak Tatra KT4 and short Ukrainian-made Electrons.

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>>1044876
Also some money for the construction were provided by German and EU development funds for countries outside EU,

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>>1026708
that an interesting comparison.


For procrastination reasons i compiled the data for all tram systems in my area. Not very surprising that the three biggest cities have the fastest systems, if you exclude regional lines (10 in Nordhausen and 4 in Gotha)

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>>1045146
About the Nordhausen tram, it's really cute system.

Also the fact that the town has 50 000 people and the diesel operated tram-train system to nearby villages is facinating.

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>>1045160
true

sharing some OC from Ilfeld

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>>1045168

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>>1045169

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>>1045173

>>1045160
just checked the hybrid line 10 on youtube
they really just placed the diesel generator in the very middle of the tram inside the passanger salon, that looks terrible as hell. Must be noisy and uncomfy to ride it.

>>1045181
iirc it's a standard V8 motor from the BMW 7 series, that shouldn't be too terrible

New Thread:
>>1045187

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>>1045181
Very noisy, yes, but it's imo better than a bus. They can electrify the line at some point.

I'm very jelly how a fucking 45 000 pop. town has a fancy tram system but my 60 000 pop. town doesn't have a proper bus system with at least one line that runs frequently.