/classical/

ayy
>inb4 how do I into classical
>General Folder #1. Renaissance up to 20th century/modern classical. Also contains a folder of live recordings/recitals by some outstanding performers.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!mMYGhBgY!Ee_a6DJvLJRGej-9GBqi0A
>General Folder #2. Mostly Romantic up to 20th century/modern, but also includes recordings of music by Bach, Mozart and others
https://mega.co.nz/#F!lIh3GRpY!piUs-QdhZACFt2hGtX39Rw
>General Folder #3. Mostly 20th century/modern with other assorted bits and pieces
https://mega.co.nz/#F!Y8pXlJ7L!RzSeyGemu6QdvYzlfKs67w
>General Folder #4. Renaissance up to early/mid-20th century. Also contains a folder of Scarlatti sonate and another live recording/recital folder.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!kMpkFSzL!diCUavpSn9B-pr-MfKnKdA
>General Folder #5. Renaissance up to late 19th century
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ekBFiCLD!spgz8Ij5G0SRH2JjXpnjLg
>General Folder #6. Very eclectic mix
https://mega.co.nz/#F!O8pj1ZiL!mAfQOneAAMlDlrgkqvzfEg
>General Folder #7. Too lazy to write up a description for this, but it has a little of everything
https://mega.nz/#F!pWR0zABY!xCwF1rEfXiyEy5HuhTDP0Q
>General Folder #8. The anon who made this loves the yellow piss of DG on his face. Also there's some other stuff in here.
https://mega.nz/#F!DlRSjQaS!SzxR-CUyK4AYPknI1LYgdg
>Renaissance Folder #1. Mass settings
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ygImCRjS!1C9L77tCcZGQRF6UVXa-dA
>Renaissance Folder #2. Motets and madrigals (plus Leiden choirbooks)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!il5yBShJ!WPT0v8GwCAFdOaTYOLDA1g
>Debussy. There is an accompanying chart, available on request.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!DdJWUBBK!BeGdGaiAqdLy9SBZjCHjCw
>Opera Folder. Contains recorded video productions of about 10 well-known operas, with a bias towards late Romantic
https://mega.co.nz/#F!4EVlnJrB!PRjPFC0vB2UT1vrBHAlHlw
>Random assortment of books on music theory and composition, music history etc.
https://mega.nz/#F!HsAVXT5C!AoFKwCXr4PJnrNg5KzDJjw

Beethoven

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvvIjByD7yw

>>73396030
I'm not a huge classical fan, but I'm interested and want to get into it.
can anyone recommend some good flute pieces? my favourites so far are by vivaldi, schickhardt, and Frederick the great. i don't like bach and beethoven for some reason

>>73396667
Mozart - K. 299

>>73396667
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im4CCu3VzMo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-8ZxCXger4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wuErtpck-c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfJ9-HenydQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl_vMpcvWKA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad_ty_W4dAg

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Zeger Vandersteene in Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lscdt9fERSQ

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>>73396799
Barbara Kortmann can play my flute anyday

What is the best Ravel piece? I know it depends on what you are looking for, but if you had to recommend your ONE favorite, of any type, what would it be?

>>73396915
I know if a piece is generally considered "best" it doesn't mean your personal favorite will align with that selection... bear with me. I guess just your personal favorite piece by Ravel.

>>73396915
valses nobles et sentimentales

>>73396799
wew these are great! thanks!

>>73397048
what do u think of this version?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0zVy1dvbcs
do u have a fav

>>73396915
Miroirs

post some nice little known concerctos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeSQ2DZ_c34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFIGoB7rK70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F734PyD3NAw

>>73396915
Orchestral: either Daphnis et Chloe or the G Major Piano Concerto
Piano music: Le Tombeau de Couperin and Gaspard de la Nuite are absolute masterpieces

>>73397099
I'm usually somewhat skeptic of his interpretations, but Bernstein's Ravel is spot on. There are records of his for both La Valse and Valses nobles et sentimentales.
For the piano version (and this apply to every solo piano piece by Ravel), just listen to Perlemuter. He's one of the greatest pianists of the last century, and he manifactured his performances with Ravel himself, by studying them with him. If it is for piano and it is by Ravel, ALWAYS listen to Perlemuter first.

>>73398238
Meh. Not even Ravel liked it that much.

1828

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is an conductor's baton a instrument?

What does /classical/ think of Max Richter?

>>73398610
Ravel's own performances sound worlds away from Perlemuter's, though

Is Bach's career proof that slow and steady wins the race?

>>73400101
More like the bow of an instrument.

>>73400384
Ravel played himself only some of his easiest pieces.

>>73400419
I think it's unfair to compare Bach to any other composer.
Though I am biased, I find him to be the greatest, most essential composer of all time.

What makes a good composition?
Does it have to be complex?
Does it have to have a depth-filled form?
Does it need to sound like classical music?
>>73400262
Very rarely a good composer. He makes great pop music though.

i'm pretty classical pleb only listen to Bach and Satie. I'm looking for more pieces like the latter -- discordant but yet still very expressive solo piano pieces very spare, any suggestions?

>>73402135
Debussy, Mompou, Part, Takemitsu, Hauer

>>73400486
ergo, an instrument

>>73400919
it sounds good

>>73402351
then how does techno sounds so good

A-flat major is the best key. Proof? Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-CKVr6Z1Tw

>>73402574 no, tonality is dead. good bye now

What are your 5 favorite composers?
What are your 5 favorite compositions?
5 favorite conductors?
5 favorite soloists?
5 favorite quartets?


Read anything interesting recently?

>>73402693
>tonality is dead
don't forget to trim your beard and polish your glasses hipster

i like dance of the knights, and have noticed i enjoy other russian composers. where do i get more shit like this?

>>73402857
and if it helps i like judas priest, the chrono trigger ost, tim hecker, death metal, the list goes on.

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>>73402781
>blatant ad hominem
>2017

>>73400919
Thoughtful rhythm, harmony, melody, form, dynamics, all around musical depth and sometimes in 20th century music things like timbre. I think the composition should be complex. If it's not complex, then the compositions are lacking serious depth. Even something like Satie might seem simple, but it's deceptively complex. A good composition doesn't need to have all of the traits, but it needs to make good use of some of them.

>>73402980
>Thotful rhythm
>Thotful harmony
>Thotful melody
>Thotful form
>Thotful dynamics
stop anthropomorphizing abstract concpets
none of those things can be thoughtful just like music can't be intelligent

>>73402857
More Prokofiev, especially Scythian suite and Alexander Nevsky, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov's Piano concertos. Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade, Borodin Polovtsian Dances, Glière

>>73403069
Are you saying an unintelligent person could have created something like the Brandenburg Concertos? Are you saying that the use of secondary dominants, circle of fifth sequences, chord substitutions, chord structures and things of that nature are not intelligent traits? Are intelligent traits not thoughtful simultaneously?

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Just finished learning the first movement of Appassonata, would anyone here have any recommendation on what should I try to learn next? I am not good enough to learn the whole Appassionata, the 3rd movement is just too difficult. I don't study music at university, it's just a hobby - I visit my old teacher once upon a time where we play the piece I am working on and then I play at a concert where her students play, so nothing too difficult. I was thinking about Chopin's first Ballade, that's about the level of that first movement. Or something else? Really, I am running out of ideas. Everything seems to be too easy or too difficult.

>>73398610
Thanks anon

post the best countertenors and pieces you like by them

>>73403534
requiem for a dream theme
moonlight sonata
tales from the crypt theme
that jap guy that does silent hill scores
liszt's faust symphony
beethoven's piano concerto #1
mozart piano concerto #2

>>73396030
I just discovered Arvo Part and I love the pieces Fratres and Tabula Rasa.

Normally I'd just use archive to search for past discussions, but since the archive is down,
what else would I like if I'm a Steve Reich nut and enjoy this guy?

>>73404574
Phillip Glass, try the glassworks collection
Morton Feldman
Keith Jarrett (jk)

>>73404604
Thanks.
I'm more than familliar with Phillip Glass, both Glassworks and Koyaanisqatsi.

I'll check out Morton Feldman. If you have any tidbits about his history or impact on anything, I'm down to listen.

Is John Cage related at all to the school of minimalism that Reich and Part are affiliated with?

Also, is it really true that Part is the most performed living composer?
Does this mean he's extremely well known in this type of community?

Joachim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF6XfABTsQE

>>73404732
I like this because I like creepy music. Similarly minimalist-like like Part. I don't know much about him. Patterns in a Chromatic Field is the piece of his I commonly see mentioned but it never really clicked with me to be honest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dSPJ2PbyYU
If you like Reich I would check out this by him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E4Bjt_zVJc
The Kronos Quartet did a lot of pieces by people like Reich.
You're probably familiar with Hans Zimmer?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxabLA7UQ9k
And Basinski?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UBWgeSJlWw
Don't know about your last three questions. Is he well known here on /classical/? I'm not sure how much of a community we have. Probably 80% of the people on here would say he's just a "meme" but I like him a lot personally. I just don't set him side by side with Bach, Beethoven, or Mozart, the same way I wouldn't put electronic music next to them. I think of them as fundamentally different.

>>73405122
You wanna know how I got to Part?
this video
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK-KC2aQpcI
Was on the side of one of my favorite Reich pieces, Proverb
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5lgAUHVFC4

If you like creepy music, you'll like both of those.

I'm all over Reich's Different Trains, that used to be my favorite of his.

Thanks for these suggestions. I'll shop around some of these guys.

I take it /classical/ probably has a lot of assholes running in saying anything from Beethoven to now is a meme, so I will take that with a grain of salt if I run into that considering Fratres and the likes of Part's pieces are gorgeous to me.

my coincidence detector is going crazy on this thread.

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still here

Just finished opening night of Cunning Little Vixen. Went well, although I'm having to run about too much to do the final forester scene justice, might just slow things down tomorrow to make it a bit easier. Still, cracking opera

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GCQ_eAswiM

>>73402857
Prokofiev's piano concerti are great, particularly #2

Petzold

Toselli

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhrRDlIQ-Sc

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Post Bartók

>>73403314
>Are you saying that the use of secondary dominants, circle of fifth sequences, chord substitutions, chord structures and things of that nature are not intelligent traits?
Are you saying a composition without these things (4'33'', But What About the Crumpling of Paper...)

>>73407969
No, 4'33'' and pieces like that certainly have thoughtful traits. I didn't mean that any good music has to have those tonal traits that I listed, but overall they need to have some sort of complexity. Modern music has moved from tonal complexities to other complexities. 4"33" is still thoughtful and complex due to the fact that that piece has a deeper meaning, obviously.

>>73408116
OK, then I kinda get that.

Do you think there's anything wrong with a person who wants to make blatantly simple music?

what is the best form of music and why is it the plainchant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsn9LWh230k

if there is a "normie" gregorian chant I suppose it is this one for its popularity but I do still love it so

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>>73404567
>faust symphony

wot?

Pavarotti

Where can i find this particular recording of spem in alium?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cn7ZW8ts3Y

sounds better than tallis scholar

>>73400844
hes essential in the way that he built the foundations of western armony. but beethoven put the fucking ceiling for us to see the universe and the story of humanity written in the stars.

lol brb kys myself now.

>>73404604
>glassworks
everyone suggests that everytime.

for Glass my fave picks are the Satyagraha opera, the Mishima Quartet (the full OST is pretty crazy too) and Aguas da Amazonia.

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The Dutch make good renaissance
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/jacob_obrecht/de_wereldlijke_werken___the_secular_works/

>>73406006
sup cantwell

>>73405211
Thanks anon I will give those a listen
you're welcome

>>73409020
y3@h

>>73410918
prob because it's a good and accessible introduction and most normies aren't fond of opera or at least they think they aren't and won't give it a try. I still think glassworks is the best suggestion for a beginner.

Grieg bump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn9tQPoEV0E

>>73404574
John Adams
>>73410918
Akhnaten is the best Glass opera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OitPLIowJ70

Who /patrician/ here?

>>73408116
>4"33" is still thoughtful and complex due to the fact that that piece has a deeper meaning, obviously.
>thoughtful
>complex
>deeper meaning

>>73408866
a capella Polyphony > Plainchant.

>>73411618
Great symphony

>>73405122
I haven't heard that much Feldman but one piece that gets a lot of discussion is Rothko's Chapel - and a couple of my favourites are Crippled Symmetry (glock/vibes, piano and alto flute) and Why Patterns? which is like a shorter version of CS

>>73409519
Pavarotti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVSS7UF3mbc

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best pianist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWl_DncXLY

>>73405122
also Feldman was one of the early minimalists, his music moves extremely slowly and his sense of tonality is much less strict as say Glass or Reich's - he usually avoids perfect 5ths (i think)

https://youtu.be/rlH5iOWh1HI

>>73410918
what about the Scorsese film soundtrack, Kundun was it?

is that shit good?
I hear the film is pretty decent, too. (and i've seen almost every Marty film so why not)

what does /classical/ think of stockhausen?

>>73411606
Will hit both these.

Any particular good place to start for John Adams?

>>73411077
The best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unp0spwY6Ww

https://musescore.com/user/9827641/scores/3298091
Will modern masters ever get the recognition they deserve?

>>73411816
Pretty good for an alien born on Sirius

Jokes aside, no other composer used the spatial element (the direction and position of where the sound is coming from) of music as well as he did. He wrote some very interesting music, some pieces that border more on an experience than a piece of music (like stimmung) and he knew how to foster a public sensation.

Can you imagine going to see a performance, Stockhausen is there yelling at everyone through a megaphone, then 4 helicopters fly overhead, blaring music from their speakers? No one else quite did it like that.

>>73411833
Nixon in China and the Chairman Dances.

>>73412422
>>73411833
Nixon is great - personally my favourite of Adams' is Grand Pianolla Music, which is a double piano concerto with wind orchestra.

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What are you listening to on Stravinsky's birthday?

>>73412818
Anything but Stravinsky.

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I still can't get over how good this is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_2PF7AC2hI
Telemann is gangrenously underrated.

>>73413073
Seems like there's barely any flute in that, struggling against all those strings. Always find Telemann too sting heavy, the Karajan on the 18th century, all detail is swamped under an excess of strings whereas Vivaldi and others bring more out. Maybe it is just the interpretations. Do like his solo flute fantasies though.

>>73412818
Mahler and Haydn :^)

Since someone finally uploaded the SACDs of Furt's 1953 Ring, I gave it a listen again. Jesus christ, the sound quality is quite an improvement in some areas. Unfortunately, though, it has once again reminded me how fucking boring this recording is. Totally flaccid in so many of the scenes. It's hard to believe this is the same conductor that recorded the utterly exciting '50 La Scala cycle. I suppose one must factor in declining health, and the fact that it was studio bound. Still, it's a shame since the overall quality of singing is quite exemplary, and I prefer a Modl in her prime to a Flagstad in her twilight.

>>73412818
I suppose I'll finally give Agon a thorough listen.

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>>73413199
Telemann excels at composing ouvertures with strings layered underneath the soloist while Vivaldi excels at composing concertos where the soloist and the continuo speaks back and forth. There's a certain level of expectation you should have for how prominent the soloist is when you read "Telemann" or "Vivaldi", or any other composer for that matter. That said I do think the video should have been titled "concerto for flute and strings in d major" or something like that.
I haven't heard his flute fantasias, but I do like the solo violin fantasias since they bring out quite a bit of the folk influences present in Telemann's compositions. For example gypsy influences are really obvious here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDY1qmMGy4 while it's less obvious in the third movement of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D-y2kJU0lg.

What did Haydn mean by this?

https://youtu.be/K0Un76AtOX8?t=1415

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_1SVU3LLBc

What's your favourite summer-y opera (doesn't have to be set in summer, just what you associate w/ summer)

>>73415276
>opera

You must be lost, this thread is for music only.

>female opera singer
ear torture

>male singer
glorious

No homo.

>>73415336
>>>/tv/

Gentle reminder that listening to opera is one of the prerequisites for posting in /classical/.

>>73415336
>not loving some buxom mediterranean mezzo/soprano doing filthy things with her chest voice
But agreed for the most part. I was at a Traviata the other day and you just lose all the words when the soprano is anywhere above an F. I know it's difficult when you're up high, but diction gets completely disregarded.

>>73415502
Gentle reminder that posting about actual music is one of the prerequisites for posting in /classical/.

>>73415529
>opera isn't actual music
Stop being a idiot

>>73415572
>Stop being a idiot
You first.

>>73415572
Opera is first and foremost theatre. A composer with little to no non-programmatic music is barely a composer.

>>73415276
Probably something like Falla's La vida breve or a spanish zarazula. Delius also is pretty summer-core in everything he does.

>>73415738
Are you going after Wagner?

>>73396030
I just discovered this
https://classicalmusiconly.com/

>>73415836
Are your over protective Wagner senses twitching? No there are lots of primarily opera composers whose instrumental music is secondary and fairly operatic.

>>73415883
Ok, but you're including Wagner in your "barely a composer" list or is he an exception? Also, for what it's worth, you're vastly lengthening that list with this post.

>>73415879
Did you make this? Seems brand new. I like the idea

>>73415738
There's a massive difference between "opera isn't actual music" - the original point of contention - and "composers who don't compose outside of opera don't count as composers." Don't shift the goalposts.
What's your opinion on oratorio?

>>73412818
Petrushka, I suppose

>>73415948
no I just stumbled upon it

>>73416000
Thanks. Adding some recording recs now. Hopefully it gets good

Claude "grab them by" Debussy

>>73416177
Franz ''shopping'' liszt

Does anyone actually download stuff off of pippo9? I got a 2 day subscription complementary of uploaded, because I was having trouble purchasing a subscription to their service. It's a total joke. There's no way I can download any of the big box sets on pippo9 when you only get 30 gigs of download a day on uploaded. You have to pay a ton of money to get extra download gigs too, it sucks. Plus every link has that fucking adfly thing on it, so you have to wait like 5 seconds for every link you click on to be able to even get to the download button. Fuck, it sucks.

Zappa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ29gn5P68M

>>73417039
>>73416177
Stop. Just stop, okay?

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>>73396030
why does /classical/ like to shit on tchaikovsky?

>>73416177
Steve "i really miss the third" Reich

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>>73415336
>mfw Philippe Jaroussky hits one of those high notes in Porpora's Polifemo

>>73418632
rockism

Petzold

>>73416177
kek

>>73417039
ROFL

>>73418632
Because he's over-played by filthy casuals, and he's a bit overrated.

>>73417039
>>73418653
J.S. "Cratch Mai" Bach

What's the difference between opera and a massive stinking pile of dung?

>>73420661
The senses they offend the most.

>>73420304
>Because he's over-played by filthy casuals, and he's a bit overrated.

He composed more than swan lake and the nutcracker.
Am i the only one who believes his 6th symphony to be one of the greatest symphonies ever composed?

I'm sick of music. Can't remember the last time I really enjoyed a piece.

Anyone else feeling like that?

>>73421062
no

>tfw researching phenomenology of music
>tfw starting to have breakthrough of understanding why twelve-tonal and atonal music is interesting
>tfw once you "get" it, it's easy as fuck to explain
>tfw in fact it's really really simple
>tfw not one atonal/twelve-tonal faggot i've ever seen has actually given this explanation, only said "DUHHHH I ENJOY IT XDDDD I LISTENED TO DEBUSSY GROWING UP XDDDD SO I LIKE IT XDD I REALLY LIKE IT XDDDD I ENJOY IT DXDD IT'S AN ACQUIRED TASTE"

No it's not you fucking worthless moron, the appeal of it can be explained in 25 seconds, it has an entire theoretical and philosophical elaboration that is very simple

I'm now convinced that 99% of the people who listen to this shit are poseurs, who are ironically listening to it "as" you normally listen to traditional music, and just forcing themselves to half-enjoy it that way, INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY LISTENING TO IT LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO, WHICH IS THE FUCKING OPPOSITE. I had music majors who had spent 8 years of their lives being able to wax pretentious about this shit, and in retrospect, they were explaining it WRONG. They were WRONG about the thing they spent their life learning to masturbate over.

Holy shit, I went from
>this stuff is all fake, right?! These guys are just faggot poseurs!
to
>no, they're onto something! I get it now! These guys are smart!
and then back to
>well, 1% of them are onto something, and the other 99% are actually faggot poseurs

>>73415883
listening to just his overtures might redeem your faith in him as a composer, and possibly get you interested in his complete operas.

The overture to Tannhauser is one of the greatest things I've ever heard.

https://youtu.be/HZjS4s8yi_g

>>73421062
Yeah, music doesn't have as much of an effect on me as it used to. I still like it but not as much as I used to. However I am really enjoying learning this sonata https://youtu.be/mWF-48jIrSU maybe if you play music you enjoy you can apprieciate it more than just by listening to it

>>73421256
>the appeal of it can be explained in 25 seconds

explain it please

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCpivLMc3Co

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCxKmq8Y8-Q

Lully
https://youtu.be/-t_InmYLrUU

>>73421374
read the emperor and his new clothes

Antoine Boësset
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=APqXhc2qJmQ#
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UAmUQieNFSc#

Biber
https://youtu.be/b5dhbC-NBrQ

Giovanni Antonio Pandolfi Mealli
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBubh2HpOqY

František Jiránek
https://youtu.be/6KtYwRjrsaM

That's about it folks

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa_oGbkBzKo
>>73421619
>>73421708
Fine tastes.
>Biber
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX0n34gbNoM
>Mealli
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad3dNY2ABOk
>Jiranek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsfNPjTPOjQ

>>73400419
>slow and steady
>Bach
??

>>73416177
but he was homo as fuck. prob a pedo too, like all homos in the XIX.

>>73422101
He worked diligently on his craft costantly, while being very skeptic of innovations and new styles.

Consider this: when he died, he was finishing the last contrapunctus of the Art of Fugue, one of his greater mastepieces. Till the day of his death, he was still getting better at composing, so much that that at that point he had no rival (fun fact: Mozart discovered Bach's Art of Fugue in his late '20s, and it demoralized him for months, after that he started studying counterpoint).

tell RAUNCHY and SPICY /classical/ facts.

ill start: mozart was a scat enthusiast.

>>73422171
but never "slow and steady". theres nothing calm about a fucker that wakes up at 4:30 in the morning and composes all day then do the mass then fuck bitches and then goes to bed at 1am after being the king of the bar.

>>73422149
What the fuck are you talking about, Debussy was a textbook womanizer.

>>73422179
Mozart just happened to live in a time in which said humour was fairly common. He may have overplayed it, but it certainly came as less weird in his time. His scat humour was more like spouting memes all day long.

Anyway: Beethoven sported a long beard and thick glasses for most of his life.

>>73422244
>His scat humour was more like spouting memes all day long.
Can't believe you failed to say shitposting.

>>73422235
Bach did not compose frantically and obsessively, he just treated it as a full time job, like it actually was.
Also that ''slow and steady'', as I've said earlier, could be a remark about his style, which evolved in a extremely slow manner.

>there are over 100 missing Bach cantatas
Makes me sad

>>73422651
>you will never hear his other two passion settings

>>73422748
The Mark is more or less reconstructable. Of course not perfect but pretty close. And the other one is just quite murky generally.
The missing cantatas are more significant because it would have been a goldmine of mostly original material.

>>73422651
Stölzel wrote over 1000. Compared to other baroque composers Bach wasn't especially prolific.

>>73422171
Isn't it a shame that he barely had the time to stretch out as a composer. He probably would have delayed romanticism another 30 years had he lived to ~60

http://www.strawpoll.me/13217836

http://www.strawpoll.me/13217836

http://www.strawpoll.me/13217836

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>>73423330
Classical isn't even my dayjob lmfoa why would I pick the second?

>>73422300
Bach is more like "quickly and efficiently". He never rushed, but he worked flat out all day every day. And yes, some of his works could be seen as obsessive. Especially the passions or the ones where he uses his name as part of the melody. Most good composers, especially those deep into counterpoint and fugues tend to be obsessive so it's nothing that out of the ordinary.

>>73422300
>Bach did not compose frantically and obsessively, he just treated it as a full time job, like it actually was.
His duties included writing a cantata every single week in addition to larger compositions for holidays and extra compositions for potential new positions. This involved not just writing the music but making copies for every single member of the ensembles in addition to leading those ensembles for practices and performances. Most of his compositions had to be written extremely quickly because of how tight every deadline was for its performance. The Saint John Passion was penned in a manner of weeks.
Factor in that almost all of his masterpieces he composed outside of these duties. The inventions, sinfonia, Well Tempered Clavier, The Art of Fugue and the B-minor mass were either written for himself or as instructional material for his children who he also taught. Remember he had twenty children, several of which grew up to be composers. There is absolutely nothing slow and steady about that. He did frantically and obsessively.

>Also that ''slow and steady'', as I've said earlier, could be a remark about his style, which evolved in a extremely slow manner
Bach was a great innovator. It's only in his later years did he return to an outdated style. Asides from looking towards innovative Northern German composers for ideas he also looked to near contemporary Italian and French composers for new ideas. He attempted to be aware of the current musical trends across the whole continent and successfully integrated these ideas into his music. He pioneered the use of the keyboard as a solo instrument for concerti, he invented a new system of tuning, his cantata and oratorios took extensively from the latest developments in opera. He had strained relationships with many of his employers for his adventurous musical ideas.

>>73422997
At the time of his death his music was decades out of date. He was practically forgotten. If he had lived longer he would have stuck at his incredibly unfashionable style which would have been unpopular and would have done nothing to advance or slow romanticism.

>>73423612
ok then

>>73423574
>He pioneered the use of the keyboard as a solo instrument for concerti, he invented a new system of tuning
I call bullshit on these two. Rest of the post is decent though.

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>>73411618
how tf did Haydn compose so many symphonies? Aren't symphonies one of the harder types of pieces to write, or am I just erroneously assuming so?
Joseph "kitty where you" Haydn

>>73423885
By half-assing most of them.

>>73411618
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jyK1VKp86M

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For other wagnerfags around here

I recently got the 1952 Keilberth Ring set, and although the Gottërdämmerung has a wonderful cast, one thing I like in my Ring is consistency, and Siegfried changes from Bernd Aldenhoff to Max Lorenz. I do love Lorenz but is it worth it getting the 1951 Knappertsbusch Gottërdämmerung for Aldenhoff's Siegfried? I loved him in Siegfried so I am considering.

>>73423977
The '51 Gottërdämmerung is interesting and very well sung overall, but there are some serious ensemble issues. If you don't mind more than a few flubs in playing, than it can be enjoyable.

Just a note, though, that the conducting of Knappertsbusch is worlds away from that of Keilberth. The latter is more of a Bayreuth traditionalist and is decently speedy. Knappertsbusch really takes his time, and it's about 30-40 minutes longer iirc. So where you might see an improvement in the cast consistency, you will most certainly see a discrepancy in the conducting styles of the two.

>>73411618

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNj2UPydZ50

>>73424062
Oh yes I'm aware, but I'm familiar with Knappertsbusch's style. Wasn't aware of the essemble issues though, so I'll have to deal with that.

Haruki Murakami 1Q84 posting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV6GI3ROj8c
Also, is there any countertenor better than Andreas Scholl?

>>73424108
It's kind of fun hearing Schwarzkopf as a fucking Rhinemaiden in Act 3. Only in those days could that happen.

>>73424123
Not that I know of.
And he's hot too.

>>73421256
you can post shorter shitposts, you know

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>Be captured soldier in WWI
>excited because a renowned composer is preparing a concert with some other musicians in the camp
>Day of the concert comes
>this is the first music you have heard in half a decade
>hear this
>yfw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeSVu1zbF94

>>73423885
The classical style of symphony is extremely formulaic. It has very little to do with the original and complex symphony of later eras. They were shorter, using smaller and simpler orchestration, far simpler harmony and incredibly predictable key changes.

>>73423631
>I call bullshit on these two. Rest of the post is decent though.
Bach developed his own tuning. He didn't invent equal temperment but he did develop his own personal tuning for the Well Tempered Clavier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_concertos_by_Johann_Sebastian_Bach
>They are among the first concertos for keyboard instrument ever written.
Before Bach keyboard instruments were just part of the basso continuo. He was one of the first to make it the center piece of orchestral works.

>>73424397
gril detected

The most blistering, revolutionary feverish 5th ever recorded, on VE Day too. Toscanini.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUykwUSOtIo&list=PLhzt9CbrJ3CZq7Jl7nx2WtKDZS1a0YBd8&index=5

>>73424462
It was actually WWII.
>Quatuor pour la fin du temps (French pronunciation: [kwatɥɔʁ puʁ la fɛ̃ dy tɑ̃]), also known by its English title Quartet for the End of Time,[1] is a piece of chamber music by the French composer Olivier Messiaen. It was premiered in 1941. The piece is scored for clarinet (in B-flat), violin, cello, and piano; a typical performance of the complete work lasts about 50 minutes. Messiaen wrote the piece while a prisoner of war in German captivity, and it was first premiered by his fellow prisoners. It has come to be recognized as one of his most important works. Awesome piece. Dreary, dark, apocalyptic. I love it.

>>73425101
>Awesome piece. Dreary, dark, apocalyptic. I love it.
That part wasn't supposed to be greentext. The other stuff is from the main Wikipedia summary.

btw has anyone heard Messiaen's transcriptions of bird songs? lol they sound like total shit.

>>73425136
though I guess it isn't complete transcription:
>The pieces are not simple transcriptions; even the works with purely bird-inspired titles, such as Catalogue d'oiseaux and Fauvette des jardins, are tone poems evoking the landscape, its colours and atmosphere.

>Catalogue d'oiseaux ("Bird catalogue"), piano (1956–58)
Book 1
i Le chocard des alpes ("Alpine chough")
ii Le loriot ("Golden oriole") (loriot and Loriod are homophones)
iii Le merle bleu ("Blue rock thrush")
Book 2
iv Le traquet stapazin ("Black-eared wheatear")
Book 3
v La chouette hulotte ("Tawny owl")
vi L'alouette lulu ("Woodlark")
Book 4
vii La rousserolle effarvatte ("Reed warbler")
Book 5
viii L'alouette calandrelle ("Short-toed lark")
ix La bouscarle ("Cetti's warbler")
Book 6
x Le merle de roche ("Rufous-tailed rock thrush")
Book 7
xi La buse variable ("Buzzard")
xii Le traquet rieur ("Black wheatear")
xiii Le courlis cendré ("Curlew")

>>73425101
Yeah I typo'd

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This album really grew my dick for some reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ9fQQUj6vE&list=PL-cgVqUC5AXtDWOC2RMJotl1DiwHITENo

>>73425337
>video not available.

>>73423499
>>73423574
Again, you guys are overplaying it. Is someone working 9to5 5 days a week someone who is ''woking obsessively''? It's a full time job.

>The Saint John Passion was penned in a manner of weeks.
Which is perfectly doable in the moment you're composing in a specific form or style. Telemann composed as fast as he wrote letters, not because he was obsessed, but only because he knew how to do it, and at the times it was acceptable to use forms and structures that were in nature conventional, which meant that baroque composers were able to bypass a major, time-consuming aspect of modern and contemporary composition: inspiration. If Bach wanted to compose a Sinfonia or a Aria he could just sit down and do it. If Beethoven had to do such a thing he would have to have a vision of what his new symphony would look like.
And by the way this does not diminish the value of baroque composers, still people should understand that given teh degree of internalization they subjected temselves to, they're compositions are rather improvisational in nature.

>There is absolutely nothing slow and steady about that. He did frantically and obsessively.
You can see it like that if you're lacking discipline, but to a well adjusted man this is just basic productivity, which is also favoured by the fact that said productivity applies to Bach's major passion: music. Schumann composed frantically, Bach instead was a man fond of routine: a full time one, but still a routine after all. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a burden to him.

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Why was Wagner so ugly?

Not his music, his face. Compare him to other composers from the time or even before then. You can at least look at them and not want to pierce your eyes with a pen. Is it the neckbeard? Wagner with a fully grown beard in my mind would look pretty good.
My vote of prettiest composer goes to von Weber.

This is very important by the way.

>>73425359

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrmvJn8LClE&list=PLJJJvKgKt-hqkTb65n8FZJKSsPqs8SLg-

>>73425462
I think it's my country. None of these videos with the "small album art in front of zoomed in image of said art with description to the right" are ever available to me.

>>73425487

Are you in Germany? They tend to be quite anal about copyright, even though these are all official YT videos.

There are ways to circumvent the block, I haven't looked in a while though. Changing the domain to hooktube.com works, but it doesn't autoplay playlists.

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why does this sound so damn good?

https://youtu.be/nc-ljvthDAs?t=838

>>73425636
Well maybe because its composed by Bach, ya turk.

>>73425445
Wagner looked like a handsome crime boss/dictator/strict disciplinarian. He got a lot of pussy, trust me. He was more of a tits man, and some of those German milfs have natural tits bigger than your head anon.

>>73425636
falling fifths sequence

>>73425362
The Saint John Passion was penned in a few weeks entirely in his own spare time in and above his normal duties which are already time consuming.
It was more than a 9-5. Reread my post where I outlined his duties. That is not 9-5 work. And again that is not to mention his tutoring his many children in music, to writing a hell of a lot of music that was not work related, to his constant practicing on keyboard instruments, to working on compositions to earn him possible employment, to leading several ensembles in performance and practice, in addition to (depending on the particular job through his life) a teaching position, and to having to make hundreds and hundreds of pages of copies for the music he wrote. This is all in addition to the fact that Bach was no Mozart.
Bach was an incredibly industrious man.

>You can see it like that if you're lacking discipline, but to a well adjusted man this is just basic productivity
There is nothing basic about Bach's productivity. Yes, I do lack the disciple to spend practically ever moment of my waking life engaged in music, but guess what, so is the vast majority of other composers. It's not Brahms spent anywhere as much of his day with music as Bach.

>Bach instead was a man fond of routine: a full time one, but still a routine after all. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a burden to him.
Your original position is that he was slow and steady. How was he slow? As I have already stated there is nothing slow about his musical life, it's incredibly industrious. Is it steady? Of course! But that doesn't contradict any of my positions. Having a musical life that isn't mentally a burden and having a routine also in no way contradicts any of my points. When I say frantic I don't mean frothing at the mouth and no having time to bathe, I mean that very little of his waking life was no engaged in music. He practically did not have a life outside of music.
1/2

>>73425362
>and at the times it was acceptable to use forms and structures that were in nature conventional, which meant that baroque composers were able to bypass a major, time-consuming aspect of modern and contemporary composition: inspiration.
bullshit

>>73425362
>And by the way this does not diminish the value of baroque composers, still people should understand that given teh degree of internalization they subjected temselves to, they're compositions are rather improvisational in nature.
wdym by this

>>73425781
We might have disagreements about the connotations of words like obsessed and frantic in relation to Bach. That's fine. We don't have to describe him in those words. But he is not slow.
2/2

>>73425684
Wagner had an abnormally large head that he was very self conscious about. Sure he got pussy but it wasn't for his looks.

>>73425781
>This is all in addition to the fact that Bach was no Mozart.
wdym by this? he wasn't as innovative?

>>73425816
abnormally large cock that he was very proud of, which amazed the ladies, who had loud, squirting orgams at the mere sight of it* t. petzold

>>73425844
Woops. I forgot to complete that part.The myth that music just churned out great music is just that, a myth. He would labour over certain compositions that were dear to him but other ones he would just use his genius to church out to earn money or fulfill employment obligations he didn't really desire to do. Bach did not do this. He would do something quickly if he had to but he never did so in the way of Mozart where it's clearly an inferior work.

>>73425908
Well you know what they say about large heads.

>>73425908
I buy it.

>>73425913
so you're making the point that with the works that were more "contractual" by nature Mozart put less heart and effort into them? Can you give an example of one of Mozart's pieces you feel represent this vs. one by Bach?
I'm not familiar with either of their... how should I put it... career pieces? One's they weren't really passionate per se about? idk

>>73426286
>so you're making the point that with the works that were more "contractual" by nature Mozart put less heart and effort into them?
Not quite. It depends on what was asked of him. He was very lax in writing church music which he was obligated to do while employed in Salzburgfor example. He did the bare minimum of what was asked of him. These were compositions that he did quickly. A the same time he was very active in writing string quartets that were not for his employer which he spent more time and effort on.
Bach doesn't do this. There isn't the same variety in quality in his works in this regard. I mean there is a variety. It's easy to see the weakness of his earlier organ fugues compared to his mature ones but that's not the same as half-assedly composing something because you don't really want to do it.

I'm about to drop a fat stack of books and articles

>>73426680
Please do. I've been wanting more than what has been in the mega links for awhile.

>>73426555
I understand the point you are making but don't know enough about either of their lesser or more contractual works and how they are composed vs. their pieces which they devoted much effort and time into. tldr - interesting point but I'm too much of a pleb to verify the veracity of yr claim anon.

/classical/ ? more lyk /bach/ amirite?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9nNHSU3Icw

Anyone know what song(s) was this adopted from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IypokeGK_WU

>>73426680

uploading to mega now, currently at 66/502

Does anyone actually download stuff off of pippo9? I got a 2 day subscription complementary of uploaded, because I was having trouble purchasing a subscription to their service. It's a total joke. There's no way I can download any of the big box sets on pippo9 when you only get 30 gigs of download a day on uploaded. You have to pay a ton of money to get extra download gigs too, it sucks. Plus every link has that fucking adfly thing on it, so you have to wait like 5 seconds for every link you click on to be able to even get to the download button. Fuck, it sucks.

Anyone else think that Cage probably wouldn't like knowing that despite everything he did in his career, he's essentially become "the 4'33" meme?"

>>73427067
I usually only download the smaller stuff, I can't imagine how you'd download any of the huge boxsets without throwing some money away.

>>73427067

In my experience, most of the stuff he has is already available elsewhere.

If you're smart enough to find it, that is.

>>73427067
Most of the stuff there is old recordings anyway, they're only for research purposes

>>73427220
>Most of the stuff there is old recordings anyway
not really

>>73427234
Outdated shit in general

>>73427242
he has a ton of recordings made in the past 20 years

>>73427256
link me to one

>>73427267
literally one on the first page, the Bruckner – F-moll-Messe – Herreweghe

>>73427283
He took that from Rutracker.

The only blogs worth looking at are odeonmusic, meetinginmusic, and sometimes juliosbv.

>>73426941

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySRsQlgx6hk

>>73427328
well, duh. pippo is a mirror website

>>73422179

not really raunchy or spicy but...

Brahms used to hunt cats with a bow and arrow

>>73427361
No, I mean everything on Pippo is on other places way easier to download

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>>73427482
wtf I hate brahms now

>>73427482
>Brahms expert puts cat-killer claims to sleep
>By A J McIlroy12:00AM BST 13 Apr 2001
>THE composer Johannes Brahms has been cleared of charges that he killed cats so that he could reproduce their dying cries in his music.
Two years of research by Calum MacDonald, an authority on the composer, has dismissed allegations perpetuated among feline lovers for more than a century that Brahms was a serial cat killer. The most likely source of the "scurrilous" allegations was Brahms's rival, Richard Wagner, who was prone "to be bitchy" when it came to discussing Brahms, he said yesterday.
>Writing in the current issue of the BBC Music Magazine, Mr MacDonald said: "I found it significant that the allegations of cat killing are perpetuated in cat literature rather than in musical literature. I possess something like 20 biographies of Brahms, and none of them contains this allegation or even mentions his attitude to cats at all."
from telegraph uk

>>73427593
>so that he could reproduce their dying cries in his music.

>>73427482
lmfao thats it im going to listen to his complete works.

>>73427593
wow so cat fags have always been fags? not a surprise at all.

still, i like the Brahms cat hunter version more.

>>73427609
>their dying cries
Thets where the lie gets exposed. When you hit cats with a projectile or a spear, they dont "cry" , they just grunt.

>>73427714
How do you know that,? Brahms?

>>73422244
>Mozart was a shitposter
I really wish him more than anyone else could be brought back to life now. He is the figure I wonder how would fit in our current times the most. I feel he wouldn't adjust himself very well.

>>73426680
>>73426784
>>73427023

here is fat stack of music articles and books

https://mega.nz/#F!1SxWnaxR!0mJqEg_uL-AhxEV4AlxhnA

>>73428419
Holy fucking shit you weren't kidding. These will keep me going for years.

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not sure where else this goes, so im putting it here.
whats the arban book equivalent for the french horn. or can i just read the arban book with my horn and transpose

How do you even get to become a conductor?

>>73396030
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liTSRH4fix4 this I will listen to over and over again, I love Piano and it seems he found a way to tame this beautiful beast of keys.

>>73428419
>Agawu
Hi SDF.
Good stuff, thanks.

>>73428778
It's probably one of the most difficult areas of classical performance to get into. You can only practice most of the time off of recordings which can severely warp the way you think conducting works. You also need a rock solid understanding of music theory. You have to understand each piece inside and out.
Most good universities offer courses in it. Asides from that or being born lucky I don't know how else you would get into it.

>>73428778
goto college

>>73428419
>>73428683
>>73428817

There should definitely be a music theory thread

Is SDF really here? I wish he'd upload more great performances to his YT channel.

>>73428952
We could try to have in in this thread. I have something around a first or second year university understanding of music theory. I have been learning piano for a couple of months now as I have finally learned that it's by far the most efficient way of actually internalising all the theory I have learned.

>>73429013
nope, he's not online

>>73428952
>>73429183
some explain 12 tone a la schoenberg to me. I understand the different scales and key signatures of regular tonality. what is the tldr on 12 tone and atonal 20th c. stuff? are they fundamentally different things? I mean, I know atonal can be anything that is not necessarily within a particular key - horror music, avant-garde music, death metal, whatever. Is it too complicated to explain in a simple 4chan comment?

>>73429575
All 12 tone music is atonal, not all atonal music is 12 tone music. The 12 tone technique is a method of composing atonal music.

At its most basic you take your tone row which is a sequence of all 12 tones without repetitions of any tones. There are some minor additions to this rule but I'll leave it at that for an introduction. As I have seen as a misunderstanding before the tone row is not the melody. It is the basic material of all the voices.
Say you deiced to start your composition with a four note chord. You could play all four notes being a C (since they are simultaneously played they do not contradict the rule), or you could make each voice play one of the first four notes of the tone row. After you have done this you have the next eight tones to go through before the tone row resets. Upon resting you can choose to invert, play in retrograde or play in retrograde inversion the tone row but the tone row cannot be changed until it is complete.

How it works is that there are certain intervals that are clearly heard in a tone row that is carefully chosen by the composer. These intervals turn up again and again and provide a point of reference for the listener.

Obviously there is a hell of a lot more to it than that but it's an okay introduction.

>>73428419
Could any of these be used as an introductory theory text?

>>73429703
Is there a reason as to why this would sound good, or is it just an arbitrary rule or barrier that gets music geeks excited? And what are some of the most noteworthy pieces that utilize it?

Btw, thank you for that, very concise and comprehensive.

>>73429976
It was afaik an entirely new method of composition that exposed a layer of mathematical relationships between notes that had yet to be considered.

Schoenberg, who developed the method, saw it as the next step of the Romantic movement as it become labyrinthine in tonality and complexity.

First listen to

Schoenberg - Op. 4 - Verklärte Nacht
Webern - Op. 1 - Passacaglia

These are not 12 tone music but situate 12 tone relative to previous compositions.

Then, depending on preference on style

Schoenberg - The String Quartets (1 is Romantic, 2 hints at atonality, 3 and 4 are 12 tone)
Schoenberg - Op. 26 - Wind Quintet
Schoenberg - Op. 36 - Violin Concerto
Schoenberg - Op. 42 - Piano Concerto

Berg - Violin Concerto
Berg - Lyric Suite

Webern - Op. 21 - Symphony
Webern - Op. 28 - String Quartet

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>>73396030
>Johann Christian Bach was a composer of the Classical era, the eleventh surviving child and youngest son of Johann Sebastian Bach.
But was he actually a good composer?

>>73430172
Thank you. What about the minimalists mentioned earlier in the thread, like Part, Glass, and Reich? Did their method of composition follow the path set in place by 12 tone, or is it completely unrelated? Is minimalism a reaction to the complexity and theory-laden quality of 12-tone music, or is it just as complex and theory-laden itself? Did Shostakovich, Bartok, or Stravinsky have anything to do with 12 tone music, compose in this method ever? They all wrote at least some atonal music, right? Sorry for too many questions, you have piqued my interest. Thank you for the suggestions anon. Been listening to these Chopin Nocturnes and they are about to put me to sleep desu.

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checkmate

>>73430231
Bartók moved towards atonality but because of his basis in folk music a foundation of tonality remains.

I imagine Shostakovich was limited politically to compose atonally, I know only his 12th Quartet begins with a cello tone row.

Stravinsky used the technique in his later period. I recall his ballet Agon made use of it.

>>73430240
I believe Wagner. Brahms is a filthy cat-killer. Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! *snaps fingers like a protesting blm frizzy haired mulatta at some ivy league college she has no business being at*

>>73430327
Thanks anon. Expanding my palette.
Been listening to the Bartok string quartets and think I like them but maybe I'm forcing it. Regardless, very interesting stuff. I know nothing of the theory behind them, but they certainly sound unconventional to my ears, especially 3.

>>73429976
As >>73430172 said Schoenberg became dissatisfied with the state of late Romantic music and attempted to create a method that would solve the problem he saw with the harmony of late Romanticism.
Harmony had become so versatile by the time of Schoenberg that he felt the freedom offered to composers was so great as to make creative decisions moving towards a realm of arbitrariness. He sought to make a new approach to music which would give greater to structure.

>>73430231
The Russian government viewed the 12 tone technique as an example of western decadence. It was difficult to learn anything about it in Russia and was a dangerous (as in you could "vanish" for being too interested in it). Consequently the only Russians who engaged the technique (ie Stravinsky) lived outside of the country. Shostakovitch has nothing to do with Schoenberg's innovations.
I'm not all that familiar with Bartok but afaik he do not use the 12-tone technique.

>>73429971
I see the Kostka text but i would recommend against that. It doesn't explain shit to you
you can find a pdf of Aldwell/Schachter Harmony and Voice Leading with a simple google search though

>>73430388
I apologise for the multiple errors in this post. I wrote it very quickly.

>>73422932
>thinking I was complaining because we lost over 100 and not because they were written by Bach

>>73425781
He taught the children to sing, he was allowed to delegate his latin-teaching duties to deputies

>>73430388
>Harmony had become so versatile by the time of Schoenberg that he felt the freedom offered to composers was so great as to make creative decisions moving towards a realm of arbitrariness. He sought to make a new approach to music which would give greater to structure.
That's interesting, as I was wrong in thinking it was something like the complete opposite (i.e., that he felt constrained by the structure/strictness in place). Very interesting. No, no need to apologize my friend. Thank you for the info. Yes, Shostakovitch is something of an enigma to me. I would recommend a book of fiction to anyone interested called Europe Central by William Vollmann, which has a fictional depiction of Shostakovich and a suspected love interest as one of many subplots. Very interesting stuff, which his more famous pieces featured as helping create an atmosphere for scenes.

>>73430388
>I'm not all that familiar with Bartok but afaik he do not use the 12-tone technique.
He tended to use "bimodal" techniques - 2 different modes at the same time.

>>73430500
How is this similar to 12-tone, what do they have in common?
t. complete retard
and do you mean modes as in the ones used in jazz - ionian, phrygian, etc.?

>>73429703
>you could play all four notes being a C
I believe that notes even an octave apart count as "different" notes for the purposes of 12 tone music, at least that's what Rosen said in his book about Schoenberg.

>>73430182
The best/most famous non J.S Bachs are CPE, JC and WF.

There's another good JC (Bach's cousin first-removed) who may have been the first person to give Bach organ lessons. Here's a cantata by him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaD5SBK-_Qk

>>73430512
Yeah, modes are like the ones you know from jazz. In art music, they were "king" in the Renaissance and earlier but were eventually supplanted by the major/minor split. Modes also featured heavily in traditional music, hence Bartok's attraction to it. Bimodality combines two different modes and plays them at the same time, which can sound both atonal and tonal depending on which notes in the mode are being played at the same time.

It's not particularly similar to 12-tone composition in that 12 tone was a fairly rigorous system which aimed to prevent what Schoenberg saw as the aimless, flabby chromaticism of early 20th century composers, who paid lip service to tonality whilst mostly ignoring it.

>>73429976

According to Schoenberg, the number one role of the 12 tone system was comprehensibility, in that it assumed the role that "classical tonality" played in creating cohesion, i.e. allowing all things to somewhat blend well together and to be understood within a system

For Schoenberg, the motive was everything, it created all form, all melody and harmonic possibilities essentially can be found in the motive; it is the essence from which everything else is created. In 12-tone, the motive is the tone row in a similar manner to a scale in "tonal" music, in that it contains all the elements of the system, except in the case of the scale, it's not actually a motive.

And to, >>73430172

Schoenberg actually disapproved strongly about thinking of it mathematically, and he hated when people would ask him questions of that sort about his music. It was Berg and Webern, and those after them, that started to mathematically explore those elements

>>73430642
Cheers for correcting. I remembered something like this.

>>73430629
>Bimodality combines two different modes and plays them at the same time, which can sound both atonal and tonal depending on which notes in the mode are being played at the same time.
that sounds really cool actually. will need to do more investigating. would you say that most of bartok's works incorporate this? how about the six string quartets? those are the works of his I'm most familiar with.

>>73430629
>It's not particularly similar to 12-tone composition in that 12 tone was a fairly rigorous system which aimed to prevent what Schoenberg saw as the aimless, flabby chromaticism of early 20th century composers, who paid lip service to tonality whilst mostly ignoring it.
Would you say that in this regard it is very much anti-jazz?

>>73430778
Go to 2.55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tob_Jf3G6A

>>73430784
Not really comparable, unless you want to interpret it via Adorno and his hatred of jazz vs his love of Schoenberg and friends.

>>73430802
thanks

>>73430847
Well they did live together from what I've heard. I do remember hearing that he hated jazz, and that he wrote extensively about music.

I could probably google this and find out, so I understand if this is irritating. But Ligeti is an interesting case for me. Did he experiment with 12-tone composition, or is he mainly atonal in other ways? I'm thinking of Musica Ricercata, if you're familiar with it.

>>73430928
Musica Ricercata isn't really 12-tone. As >>73430642 points out, the cornerstone of the 12-tone system is the tone row created by using the pitches. The treatment of this motive then constitutes the whole piece, whether it's through transposition, inversion etc. Whilst Musica Ricercata does eventually build up to using all 12 tones in the final movement, it's not really Schoenbergian

>>73430901
Schoenberg thought Adorno was an annoying twat. If you consider Gershwin jazz, Schoenberg liked him very much.

>>73431355
>(((Gershwin))))))))))

>>73427220
>>73427242
Jesus man. Usually if a record is made after the 40s is sounds pretty good. Idk what you have against old records. As long as the sound is transparent, it matters more who the orchestra and conductor is.

Does anyone know where I can find the complete decca legendary performances in one places for download? Boxset.ru is obviously just dead links, and pippo9 is unuseable.

>>73431987
For every canonical work there is a modern recording at least as good as an older recording

>>73432373
It really depends on your preferences for performance styles. Many styles are completely dead, so you have to listen to an older recording if your favorite style is no longer utilized.

And what you say is objectively false for many operatic works. It's no secret that the world of opera in the past 20-30 years has been in a crisis. Especially romantic opera.

>>73432389
I see that as nitpicking for the most part, but I can understand it when it comes to singers

>>73432438
I think any good interpreter is likely a nitpicker themself. I also can't help myself.

That being said, even if I have a bias towards some of the earlier 20th century performing styles, I still perfectly enjoy many modern performers as well. It's good to have contrasts.

>>73432438
>nitpicking
or just trying to find what i like the most

>>73432484
>I think any good interpreter is likely a nitpicker themself
Can you elaborate on this? I think a good interpreter cares more about realizing their vision of the work as a whole, rather than nitpicking on details

>>73432518
And that's why I'm criticizing what you like

>>73432532
Read Scherchen's Handbook of Conducting. It goes into more detail about that kind of thing, and much better than I could.

>>73432549
I'd rather get the answer from you

>>73432591
Sorry, but it's 4am here and I simply don't have the energy right now. Maybe later.

>>73432543
what is "that"? you have issues with people trying to find music they enjoy listening to?

>>73432628
If you follow the string of posts you'll realize I'm criticizing the bias for old recordings

>>73432649
but you haven't stated the purpose of being critical

Gentle reminder that old meme recordings rule /classical/.

>>73432717
You mean /r/classical/

>>73432717
Classical is all about the live performance. Thats the way the music was designed to be heard.
Good quality modern recordings provide a closer approximation to real life than crackly old meme recordings. That's just a fact.

File: Guido_Cantelli_001.jpg (19KB, 300x380px) Image search: [Google]

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>>73432717
Not a single conductor alive today has as much class.
I would fuck the shit out of Cantelli desu and I'm not even gay

>>73432744
Oh, it's just poly shitposting.

>>73432742
what is /r/classical/ lad?

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>>73432753
pic related

>>73432765
i think that's his first post in this argument but he's right anyway

>>73432788
No, not really. Poly's good idea of a "closer approximation to real life" is dreadfully engineered DG slop.

What are some solo brass albums I should listen to?

>>73432744
Modern recordings have existed since the mid late 50s. From there on it's an ever-increasing effect of diminishing returns in regards to audio quality.

>>73432831
The audio quality has improved. I believe its the performance quality that old meme fags think has decreased.

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Is the music starting at 0:42 a known composition or just some trailer music?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY392wxb2Wk

File: 1469128414461.jpg (37KB, 240x300px) Image search: [Google]

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>>73432788
Back at you, my good friend.

>>73432744
>Classical is all about the live performance.
[Citation needed]
>Thats the way the music was designed to be heard.
Not necessarily, and these days performers often break "design".
>Good quality modern recordings provide a closer approximation to real life than crackly old meme recordings. That's just a fact.
Many old memers such as myself would rather have the recording in modern sound. I have a lot of favorite modern recordings. However, old memers have to listen to their crackly recordings because the performers in modern recordings don't play like the crackly ones.

>>73432841
It has improved in certain regards, but not really that much. It's more smooth, and you don't get tape hiss, but things like dynamics are more-or-less the same. Ditto with stereo spread. In-fact, one could make an argument that some modern recordings suffer from the digital process. I've heard more than a few modern recordings which have unfortunately been dynamically compressed greatly. The loudness war does creep into this genre on occasion.

Either way, though, my main point is that improvements in audio technology haven't been large enough to provide, say, the gigantic contrast between listening to a shellac recording, and a early stereo LP. Diminishing returns.

I'd rather listen to a well engineered mono recording than have to suffer through any of Gardiner's Brahms ever again. It's a shame the engineering is so incompetent - I actually liked the conducting.

>>73432373
I did really like Simon Rattle's recording of Rite of Spring. I wish that I could figure out which of these canonical works are as good as you say they are without going out there and sampling hundreds of works. Do you have a soulseek account?

>>73433004
Honestly, I put everything I listen to these days on the second Mega link on OP, but ask around these threads and you'll probably get good recommendations

>>73432849
>[Citation needed]
See all classical music before 1877 - it was all performed live. There were no recordings.

>Many old memers such as myself would rather have the recording
have your recordings then. Just know you're not experiencing the music the way it was meant to - in the flesh.

>>73433337
Gave me a chuckle. Keep assuming listening is the only thing I do.

Is there any composer which mainly worked with low frequencies?

new thread
>>73433693

>>73433693

>>73433440
>Keep assuming listening is the only thing I do.
My post never implied that.

>>73404574
The one piece from Arvo I love the most is De Profundis. But he's a great composer altogether.

>>73418632
Because /classical/ is about showing how sophisticated your taste is, not about appreciating music.