/classical/

>>72454669
His movies have good soundtracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9W-sZt7SZw

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>>72454669
Cute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPN6wpTJAEE

>>72455559
faggot

Lehar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCdVcdZDXzM

>>72456065
forced meme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5tQQ3hqleE

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I appreciate Brahms more and more every time I listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e60mwMq2YKc&list=PLblB8tn_AAn0c9_QPfLLYpbjE-DYkh1O-&index=1

>>72457324
I really like Brahms, but that Piano Concerto has always bored me to tears aside from the beautiful 3rd movement.

Don't really care for his 1st Piano Concerto either.

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Bump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW67JLX49yQ

violin concerto power ranking

1. brahms
2. mendelssohn
3. tchaikovsky

bruch cucks need not apply

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>>72457921
Actual violin concerto power ranking:
1. Vivaldi
2. Locatelli
3. Leclair
4. Pisendel
5. Bach
-------POWER GAP--------
900. Beethoven
901. Sibelius
902. Mendelssohn No. 4
----------FIRETRUCK---------
9001. Tschaikovski

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>>72458089
Shut up, slut.

>>72457921
1. Martinu
2. Sibelius
3. Schoenberg

'cannot into 20th century' cucks need not reply

>>72457921
>implying the Scottish Fantasy isn't miles ahead of the meme no. 1

What's your opinion of Hans Hotter?

>>72458636
Nah.

1. Sibelius
2. Mozart's 3rd
3. Mendelssohn

>>72458089
Besides baroquememefaggotry, what's your reasoning for shitting on the violin concertos from the other eras?

>>72459612
>Mozart VC
>good

>>72459747
inb4
>underrated
forced meme

(So, what's wrong with it?)

>>72459518
One of the GOATs.

It's a shame that Gould got co-opted by normies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHW1I8T0caI

>>72459518
good voice. charismatic.

only really tolerable for me in his prime, though. his diction got extremely shitty from the late 50s and on, and it was never that great anyway.

lads, can one learn anything from Music Theory online courses?

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>>72459518
My favourite Winterreise

What are the most awesome collections of classical music? I really miss when what.cd was around, you could just go download whatever collection you wanted when there was the freeleech.

I have NPR top 50, deutsche grammophon: the originals - legendary recordings (volumes 1 & 2), deutsche grammophon collectors edition 111 year anniversary (55 CD), of course the /mu/ classical thread downloads, the glenn gould original jacket collection.

Then of course I download everything I could download myself, and a bunch of collages from what.cd which will never be seen again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCNl7FJg8ds
Just watched this. Performances and some background story on Thomas Quasthoff. It is long, though.

anything that sounds like Bloodborne ost?

>>72461544
flicking through the soundtrack on youtube, it sounds like a general pastiche of Mahler, Bruckner, Strauss and early Schoenberg. You might enjoy Wagner too.

Is there actually a giant leap in complexity between the works of Mozart and Wagner or have I only been listening to classical for a few weeks?

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>when you download a boxset of 9 CDs and they all are without id3 tag

>>72462158
I tag all my music myself anyway, so it never bothers me

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Post Scriabin

>>72458636
>1. Martinu
Opinion discarded. Fuck off poly.

What are the most awesome collections of classical music? I really miss when what.cd was around, you could just go download whatever collection you wanted when there was the freeleech.

I have NPR top 50, deutsche grammophon: the originals - legendary recordings (volumes 1 & 2), deutsche grammophon collectors edition 111 year anniversary (55 CD), of course the /mu/ classical thread downloads, the glenn gould original jacket collection.

Then of course I download everything I could download myself, and a bunch of collages from what.cd which will never be seen again.

>>72462131
Wagner benefits from Berlioz and others' advancements in orchestration (writing music specific to individual instruments for thematic or timbral effect) as well as half a century of development in tonal language.

That being said I'm glad there's no Mozart with full Romantic chromaticism

>>72462818
rutracker has a number of collections, but collections can be quite prescriptive; it's often more fun to build up using smaller, more tailored recordings instead of just getting a big box set

Stravinsky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hf1cL_CkdA

>>72462131
>Is there actually a giant leap in complexity between the works of Mozart and Wagner
Yes.

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Is he right? I'm just a pleb

>>72457921
1. Stravinsky
I don't care about the rest

>>72463971

I'd say so, I never got much out of that recording either.

Kleiber isn't bad, but he's been anointed as God by people who never heard Furtwangler.

>>72463971
he's right about it not being a very great recording, but he's wrong in regards to the reasons.

Kleiber is probably the most overrated conductor ever ... on the basis of his studio recordings.

his live recordings make a better case for his reputation. but, unfortunately, amongst the live recordings that he have, there's kind of a limited repertoire.

>>72464243

I'd say his Beethoven 5 and Brahms 4 are certainly up there with the best, even if I prefer Toscanini and Furtwangler respectively.

Kleiber isn't anywhere near the worst conductor to be promoted. His New Year's Concerts are quite good.

>>72454669
my god I hate 20th century
the only thing I hate more is the 19th century

>>72457921
Bach
Mozart
Haydn

romantics need not apply

>>72464355
both his Beethoven 5 and Brahms 4 are much better in their respective live recordings imo, especially the BPO Brahms 4 which is probably the only recording which really matches Furt in intensity.

his Brahms 4 studio recording is, for me, probably his most disappointing recording.

the biggest reason why most of his studio recordings are disappointments is because of how garbage the sound quality is. typical DG overmiking and shitty spotlighting -- listen to any live recording of Kleiber and you have a much, much better idea of what his balances and dynamics were like, and they sometimes sound worlds away from his studio versions.

>Kleiber isn't anywhere near the worst conductor to be promoted
i don't think so either, but his reputation in certain circles borders on the obscene.

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>>72464369
Mein Gott Baroque-kun, what a pleb you are.

>>72464422
>his reputation in certain circles borders on the obscene
Which circles? Even here, it's mostly overly patriotic Austrians that fawn over him. Carlos Kleiber is a good conductor. I don't think his reputation exceeds his ability.

>>72463971
He's wrong. The snappy take on Schubert's 3rd in that recording is great. Not "Schubertian" my ass. The 3rd is a Pastoral-like symphony. Playful and full of whimsical motifs. Haverstock can suck it.

>>72464723
>Which circles?
i must've read a dozen polls from big magazines and websites by now that have him as the #1 conductor.

>I don't think his reputation exceeds his ability.
neither do i

>>72464723

The 8th is a dull affair though. I'm not sure who's best in it, but it sure ain't Kleiber.

>>72464989
I only skimmed the review (actually, I just read two lines in the middle paragraph and took note of the two star rating). Didn't notice the review is mostly about the 8th. Definitely not the best interpretation of that symphony. Carlos went for the same snappy, high variance interpretation as with the 3rd, but the 8th isn't a good fit for such a take. It's more solemn, with slower, more deliberate developments I like Krips and the Wiener for Schubert's 8th far above the Kleiber combo.

But 2 stars for the whole album? No way. 3 - 3.5 more like. And really, what the heck is "schubertian" supposed to mean?

>>72465143
Actually, "solemn" is the wrong description. It's more "serious", more "elegant", less "pretty".

>>72465143
>And really, what the heck is "schubertian" supposed to mean?

Sadboy

>>72465143
>what the heck is "schubertian" supposed to mean?
it means, "whatever i think schubert is supposed to be like"

Böhm and Monteux are also great for Schubert's 8th. (I'm really partial to the Wiener Philharmoniker.)

C.P.E. Bach --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5COcXfe764E

/bump

>>72460220
Obviously.

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>>72465867
>>72460220
Let me expound on that a little: it depends on what level you want to understand music theory, from which perspective and to what ends. In general, various online courses work well enough as an introduction into the topic. For things like staff notation they're as good a source as any.

For example, one of my favourite books on music theory is Guerino Mazzola's "The Topos of Music" since it combines two of my favourite subjects (music and category theory) but it's a very abstract take on music that wouldn't be of much use to most (aspiring) musicians.
I also enjoyed reading books written by composers about their own subject, like Messiaen's "Technique de mon langage musical".
Some of the old classics are still the best for their subject, like Fux's "Gradus ad Parnassum" for counterpoint. Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven studied from it.

So, why do you want to study music theory?

>>72464422

I never knew there was a live Kleiber Brahms 4. Thanks a lot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGiXx-TcY3Y

>>72462640
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUGvRzTW2ME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kovQpnMWi_E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjaubBRNmO4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8NARll_1Ek

>>72464422
>both his Beethoven 5 and Brahms 4 are much better in their respective live recording
isn't that true of almost any performance?
most studio recordings are too overworked to the point of being stale.
the best way to listen to music is live anyway. don't cheap out anons.

>>72467171
>the best way to listen to music is live anyway
by the way, what concerts/recitals is /classical/ going to next month?

>>72467171

In the age of Reiner, Kna, Ormandy, Kondrashin, Solti, Barbirolli, Toscanini, Furtwangler, Klemperer, etc...just throwing out random names, the list is enormous, that was a fucking golden time.

Now? Who is there? I ain't hauling my ass out to see Dudamel. Even the ones I like are well past their prime.

>>72463971
No, he isn't.

>>72467382
Why?

>>72467354
>not having a subscription to your local small city (and somewhat shitty) philharmonic just to support the culture
faggot, if you're one of those assholes crying about how classical music is dying I'm going to pop open a vein from rage

>>72467474
Perhaps I'm at odds with everyone but I hate the overly Romanticized approach of Classicism that slows everything down in pursuit of the solemn. Having performed the 8th I'm with Kleiber in its pace.

>>72467354
People blame things like the retarded plebs and rap obsessed public for the decline in classical but maybe it is classical fans worshiping the golden days that is killing it.

>>72467490

I played in my local small city (and somewhat shitty) symphony for years until the conductor died.

Classical music isn't dying, it's being strangled by retarded 'musicologists' pushing their theoretical tripe.

>>72467542

Well that's too bad, the whole point of recording is setting examples for future generations to follow and learn from.

Are you going to blame Homer for your furry sex novels not selling well?

Classical music isn't dying at all, stop the meme ing.

Yeah it's no longer the people's only option, so unnecessary chaff will be done away with. That doesn't mean the form is dead or dying.

>>72467509
Even for something like Schubert's 8th or 9th symphonies? Or Beethoven? (Not talking so much about the slowing down of the tempo, but about "drawing outside the lines" with rubato and extra instruments in the orchestra.)

Are you a HIPster?

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>>72464565
>anyone who doesn't share my shitty opinions is the same person!!
That's really pathetic you know that?
>>72459630
The problem with classical concertos is that they're too repetitive and they lack flare; almost formulaic.
The problem with romantic concertos is that they're too long and droll. The good parts are seconds long and wedged between long boring orchestral segments that does nothing but link one theme to another.

>>72467703
I'm fairly particular with my HIP. On and off.
When it comes to the large orchestral works I agree more. When it comes to Chamber works I'm almost completely opposed.

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>>72467703
HIP Schubert is best

>>72467748
>The problem with classical concertos is that they're too repetitive
This coming from the guy who reveres Vivaldi is comedy gold.

>>72467814
t. Stravinskyboo

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>>72467748
>droll

>>72467786
Are you memeing is that legit good? I don't want to get memed.

>>72467920
HIPsterism is nothing but a fogey meme.

>>72467920
I like it, shut up with memes.

>>72467984
I think it's fine for Baroque but for classical composers it's dubious, sometimes works but mostly they don't.

>>72467840
Stravinsky is the opposite of repetitive, Baroque-kun.

>>72468026
>doesn't know that I was referring to what Stravinsky said about Vivaldi (which is wrong, by the way)
>hates HIP even when applied to proper eras that need it
>he's a retard
Checks out.

>>72468015
HIP in instruments for Classicism is nigh unforgivable I will say.

>>72467984
Wow, HIPsterism is old enough to be wrong generationism now I guess.

>>72468015

I have yet to be convinced by any academic 'reconstruction' of a classical piece, how the hell would they friggin' discern the physical movements and rhythms of people who died 200 years ago?!

The whole thing is just a retarded exercise in larping. Might as well tell us how what positions Napoleon nailed Josephine in. I'm not against scholarship, but any attempt at dictating what is the 'right way' to play anything can go fuck off.

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>>72468056
>Vivaldi
>not repetitive

>>72467920
Immerseel is one of the better HIPsters.

that Schubert is interpreted pretty well, but your mileage may vary on the instruments. in particular i didn't like the sound of the brass too much -- it's the same issue that i had with his Beethoven cycle, it's a bit too hollow for me.

>>72468113
It was never about the 'right way' it was simply researching the time the score was made rather than just relying on the score. But it got the old guard of conductors and listeners butthurt as they felt chastised for being wrong and they apparently still haven't got over that butthurt.

>>72468164
>>72468056
Also
>HIP
>ever needed
Define "need" you faggot.

>>72468197
The retarded limp-dicked flaccid post-Wagnerian Romantic interpretation and the big-band orchestration of chamber baroque works sucks ass.

>>72468164
Not him and I agree that Vivaldi isn't great, but he made some good points. Baroque-shit has some similar repetitive trends, like those trills at the end of bars, and the playing a few notes and then playing the same pattern but starting from a lower note. But I still find it superior to the periods after.

>The good parts are seconds long and wedged between long boring orchestral segments
This is the main issue I have with music from the classical and romantic periods. Also too many instruments playing similar notes.

>>72468196
> it got the old guard of conductors and listeners butthurt as they felt chastised for being wrong
No, it annoys me because it sounds like shit. To hell with period instruments and technology hating luddites who fetishise about
>muh winds with no keys
>muh brasses with no valves
>muh violin bows that loosen up when pressed on the string
etc
etc
etc

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Post some good HIP

>>72468327
You're stuck in a rut where the only thing you really grok is melody and can't parse musical development. Sorry to break it to you, but you don't really "get" Baroque music either.

Stick to popular songs.

>>72468436
I've considered that maybe I'm just a classical newfag whose tastes will mature later. So maybe in a few years I'll join you in posting >MUH COUNTERPOINT and such.

>>72468436
It's an ancient Calcium meme but Il Giardino redeems Vivaldi

>>72468332
you can be HIP and not utilize period instruments

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>>72468507
>Il Giardino
The Onofri-Antonini combo is good, but I find their interpretation of Vivaldi's cello concertos with Coin lacking.

>>72468538
Pretty rare. Most HIPsters have been going for maximum fogey autism, and their share has been growing since HIP became a thing.

Fuck HIPsters.

>>72468434
Who doesn't love Butt, prefer his other works more though, Handel and Bach.

I'm fairly new to classical and just really enjoyed working my through Bach's sonatas, partitas and suties for violin and cello. Could anyone recommend me some more violin and/or cello stuff with or without piano accompaniment? Thanks!

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>>72468607

Yeah, we all love Butt here.

>>72468606
>Pretty rare
not really

a lot of conductors when performing classical these days utilize smaller orchestras, and keep the kind of 'period' tempi in mind when conducting.

and then there are conductors who utilize a period orchestra and then proceed to interpret the work in a completely personal way

>>72468687
>a lot of conductors when performing classical these days utilize smaller orchestras, and keep the kind of 'period' tempi in mind when conducting
If only HIPsterism was that. Alas...

What our consensus on Bartók?

>>72468687
You can't interpret a work without putting your own spin on it. It's involuntary.

>>72468759
what's*

I just thought of something deep. How did orchestra members play without coughing during the smoking era?

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Does anyone have a link the version of this that has the ravel and prokofiev recording on it? This is on the classical essentials chart and I can't even find it for download anywhere.

>>72458636
>Martinu
Really man?

>>72468757
a performance which is historically informed doesn't necessarily have to be so to the fullest extent.

the pioneering HIP recordings made in the 50s and 60s utilized modern instruments and mostly focused on downscaling the orchestras/choir/etc. and playing at what they deemed to be a more appropriate tempo. they were the HIPsters of their time. perhaps HIPsterism is something more 'extreme' today generally, but it isn't always so.

HIPsterism need not be the absolute extreme of all things within that stereotypical environment, and many times it often isn't. if someone is using Beethoven's metronome markings for their own tempo, then they're being HIP, even if they're playing on modern instruments.

>>72468778
duh. but there's plenty of conductors who try to strive towards objectivity. as futile as that may seem.

>>72468623
There's not a lot of works for solo sting instruments.
For Violin: Paganini's or Rode's Caprices
For Cello: Reger's or Bloch's Suites, Bartok's or Ysaÿe's Sonatas

Other than that just search for violin or cello sonatas, lots from many eras.

>>72468831
You're splitting hairs anon.

>>72468759
Shit

>>72468783
Nobody knows the answer? How disappointing.

>>72468878
Why?

>>72468867
maybe, but i feel as if it's a pretty broad term

Borrington never stopped being a HIPster even after he got a modern orchestra to play with.

>>72467354
There's better conductors alive than many of those you mentioned

>>72468878
No.

>>72468883
Because no matter which composer you ask for consensus on, someone is going call him shit.

>>72468797
I'm not sure if it's that exact edition:
http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/35161600/file.html

>>72468946

Name them, I need a laugh anyway.

>>72468759
>our consensus
Bound to be stupid. I love him though, favourite 20th century string quartets and piano concertos, one of my favourite operas, lots of other great works.

>>72468841
Ah ok thanks, I'll give those a listen. Really enjoying the purity of the sound

>>72468967
I think this one has just the Prokofiev sonatas, I'm sorry.

>>72468970
Ivan Fischer

>>72468926
>Borrington
kek, didn't get you were referring to >sir roger norrington at first.
makes perfect sense.

>>72469209
k, 1st row
>Beethoven, Wagner, Brahms, Chopin&Liszt, Mozart, Mahler
2nd row
>Schoenberg, Erich Kleiber, Klemperer, Dudamel(?), ?, Bernstein, Celibidache
pls help

>>72469692
>Dudamel
or Barenboim

>>72469692
Bottom row is
>Ferenc Fricsay, Erich Kleiber, Karl Bohm, Willem Mengelberg, Hans Knappertsbusch, (((Bernstein))), Sergiu Celibidache

>>72469830
>Knappertsbusch

How do you pronounce his name?

Why is the ol Ludwig Van's 9th such a good drunk listen?

>>72469928
Good question

>>72469830
how do you know they're Fricsay, Bohm and Mengelberg?
first one from 2nd row is a lot more similar to Schoenberg than Fricsay to me.

>>72469928
Napper's bush

>>72469928
1:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMcKdARmgzo

Nappass-bush

>>72469928
Kn'ah-purtz-bush?

>>72470102
>>72470136
The 'k' is clearly audible, and so are the 'r' and the 'zz' (like in pizza) in the second syllable.

>>72470317
No 'r' sound. It's
>knapɐtsbʊʃ

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https://youtu.be/D-w3BBIh6ss?t=6m38s

What's going on in this section?

>>72462131
>is there actually a giant leap of complexity between a thoroughly classical era composer and one of the romantic era's loosest cannons who set the stage for atonalism and heavy metal
Yes

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What does /classical/ think of Koji Ueno?

>>72472097
Literally who?

>>72472174
Literally who are you?

>>72472222
I'm anon, how are you?

What does /mu/ think of Ornstein?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZWZ8XLdr3A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-XzRU_32Ec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii3oEVz1rVg

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http://vocaroo.com/i/s0g0y8QYkZVb

do you like my thingy, /classical/ ?

>>72466470
I want to read notes, and enjoy classical music like everybody else

>>72473742
You posted that before, and no.

>>72470075
That guy had a blog and gave the names with his chibi images.

>>72467299
Going to be commencing rehearsals for a production of Cunning Little Vixen. Unfortunately there's not much in the way of live performance going on in my area, but the Edinburgh Festival does have a pretty good line up of events this year, so I may get along to as many of those as possible in a couple of months.
>>72468100
It's a 50/60s meme that was good at the time, but was taken too seriously. As a concept it was great and really challenged musicians to think about their music, but it has become dogmatic at this point and doesn't really encourage musical exploration in the same way it did when it was a fresh meme
>>72468290
>
there's at least an honesty about it that you don't get in HIP music. Give me the Klemperer Matthew Passion over Butt's OVPP HIP memery any day
>>72468434
>>72468607
See above. Butt is a very knowledgeable man (currently supervising the phd of a conductor of a choir I sing in) but sometimes the HIP stuff is just too much and doesn't reveal anything "new"
>>72468623
Biber and Tartini for violin
>>72472432
his piano quintet is great

>>72475246
>there's at least an honesty about it that you don't get in HIP music.
What does that even mean

How is one more objectively 'honest' than the other

>>72475316

Because one performance emits from a heart of pure intent and the other one from brains of taco meat.

>>72475316
You're wasting your time, you're asking someone who uses the word 'memery'.

Since I have no idea what the fuck I'm listening to whenever I turn on a recording of a Romantic-era piece, what is something good I can listen to that is strictly Classical?

>>72475360
Those words don't really mean anything when you have basically no objective measure for intent

>>72475417

You're talking about objectivity in music?

Nice tacos.

what's some good depressing and minimalistic modern classical? I'm talking stuff like Klaus Lang, Harley Gaber, Scelsi's 2nd period stuff, etc

>>72475405
the creation by Haydn

>>72475316
Non-HIP performers don't pretend to have a direct line to the composer's spirit in their interpretation; they conduct the music in the manner which they think suits it. They don't assume some strange role as a prophet with a direct line of contact with the composer, and accordingly make the decision that baroque composers wouldn't have wanted their music performed by more technologically advanced instruments or with more modern performance styles. As someone else already said, it's just larping and it was an interesting experiment when it first hit the scene, but there's now this "cathedral" of HIP performance which is stifling actually interesting interpretations

>>72475246
>his piano quintet is great
It's really enjoyable, who would you recommend that has a similar "jouissance" (for lack of better term) as Ornstein?

>>72467354
>Reiner
most popular for the engineering on rca living stereo

>Kna
most popular among bruckner fans, and the some of his wagner

>Kondrashin
good but barshai was better

>Solti
overrated as fuck

>Barbirolli
overrated

>Ormandy
not even particularly great

>Toscanini
i laugh at anyone clinging to his ancient shitty sounding recordings when they're nothing incredible

>Furtwangler
most popular for the political context of his recordings

>Klemperer
most popular for longevity and harsh character

don't get me wrong these are all elite conductors and important figures but their legend status is attached more to nostalgia and zeigeist than by actually being these gods they're made out to be

>>72475585
also most of their legendary recordings are so because of the amazing singers and soloists they had than the conductors themselves

>>72475454
John Adams' Doctor Atomic and HK Gruber

>>72475440
No, I'm looking for some objective evidence that Butt is somehow impure and dishonest in his interpretive viewpoint. Supplying evidence for the kind of hyperbolic statements you gave seems to be a common courtesy.

Speaking of honesty, you should have just talked about what you liked and disliked in these two polar performing styles, instead of pretending to know the measure of each of these men's minds.

>>72475585
reiner was a well known and influential conductor long before the RCA recordings.

Kna is much, much more well known for his Wagner than any of his Bruckner -- much of which has lost a lot of steam over the years due to his use of inferior editions

furtwangler was perhaps one of the best known conductors period waaay before the political context of WWII. he built the BPO into an accessible power house and dethroned the Staatskapelle as the #1 orchestra in Berlin. nearly every conductor names him as a huge influence and none of them tend to talk about his political context when doing so.

>longevity and harsh character
what, his tempi? Klemperer wasn't really that slow until the 60s. and he also had a pretty big reputation long before that time. if anything Klemperer's legendary status is mostly on the heels of Legge and his orchestra, which had extremely high standards for the time

honestly you could have made your case better

>>72475855
too tired to put much effort into my posts

obviously they had a fruitful career before any of those things i mentioned

however, nowadays they're made gods cause of the crackling in their recordings and their distant context, when there's conductors as gifted today

and even if there are a lot of popular mediocre conductors and performers (as it's ever the case), it's because of people being stuck in the past due to recordings

recording technology apparently killed the discerning of classical listeners, in other words classical memers who can't think for themselves

>>72476001
not much to do with the crackling and context. maybe for some people it is, bit it honestly has more to do with the performance styles of the time

if you love Furtwangler's performance style, there's basically no one currently who comes close to his style. so you're out of luck.

>>72476001
>when there's conductors as gifted today

Everyone says this flippantly and THERE'S NEVER ANY NAMES!

All those people lived at the same time. Where are their successors?!?

>>72476129
well, a lot of those conductors did have "successors" or self-proclaimed ones, at least, but very often they had little in common with their predecessors.

he's right about there being good talent out there, though. you just can't expect the same kind of performance styles.

amongst the younger generation, Currentzis bears following. he's super out-there but his huge risk taking is a breath of fresh air.

>>72476074
true the manner of performing and technique has changed, and there's a whole hip movement for that

about furtwanglers performance style, sure but you're talking about a top 3 conductor of his time

no one denies his elite status but there's been other elite conductors over the time albeit different

>tfw Gielen gonna die soon
I cri

>>72475585
>hating on Toscanini
Pleb as fuck.

I don't get why Boulez did a Mahler cycle.

>>72476766
Idk but it turned out well, certainly for no. 6

>>72476792
Sounded a bit too clinical and 'correct' to me, like an over-sized Mozart symphony. Not bad though.

>>72476766
he likes Mahler and money
>>72476792
meh, it's really badly recorded.

>>72476766
Money most likely, total serialist compositions weren't going to pay the bills. He also said early in his career that he wanted to blow up opera houses and then became an opera conductor.

>>72476877
>tfw he contacted Bergman and tried to get him to adapt Wagner' Ring

would've been awesome if it had actually gone through

>>72476814
definitely prefer Gielen's similar style

Petzold

>>72473742
I like the first 20 seconds tbqhf.

Prokofiev bump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ri9_z1uqMI

>>72468816
yes

>>72470998
>What's going on in this section?
Nothing special, never post popular music in a classical thread again.
Now have some electronic music from the 50s that is more advanced than anything autechre have ever done:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwtAMGXyTI4

>>72473742
Chords hardly count as a "thingy" learn to use more than one stave, learn to write melodies, learn counterpoint, learn anything really.

>>72476766
Boulez does all the great masters

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Do we like James Levine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yMoNwiaaDY&list=PLzezwOihs_Qzmz4tlEZd2Qrc5N4U6q4yx

>>72474532
You don't need to be able to read notes to enjoy classical music. You need to be able to hear the music, and listen to it actively, not as white noise in the background. Classical music is not about the high of a snippet or plugging an ear worm into your ear, it's about the transformation of music during the run of a piece in all its elements. Knowing music theory will only help you to identify the musical devices used, but if you can't *hear* them it's not going to help you with enjoying classical music at all.

Just listen anon.

>>72478959
Someone should put some sort pasta on this in the OP. So many people ask this stupid question again and again and again.

>>72458636

>20th century
>doesn't even have shosti

my little anon can't be this fucking retarded

>>72475585
Barbirolli isn't just overrated. He's massively overrated by anglophone schmucks with an inferiority complex. Barbirolli is shit.

Recommend some bass arias for me, please.

>>72479160
shit you're right, his VCs are epic

>>72479325
Kak vo górode bylo vo Kazáne from Boris Godunov. Listen to the whole thing actually:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ_7PY7lQ78

>>72480085
Listening to it although I might not finish it for another day or two.

Petzold

>>72479325
Sarastro's Aria from Magic Flute

>>72465749
more like this pls?

>>72479321
he's ok in certain repertoire and he was much better before WWII.

i tried listening to his Brahms a few weeks ago on my Brahms binge. jesus christ it was boring as fuck. like Celibidache but without the finesse and meticulous attention to balances.

>>72479325
Attila's arias in Verdi's Attila.

>>72479325
>no one mentioned Pogner's Address from Die Meistersinger yet
Are you alright, /classical/?

>>72479325
>>72480085
>>72480238
Russian opera is heaven for basses. I blame papism for the emasculation of music in western Europe. Fuck tenors.

>>72482078
I suspect the guy is a vocal student looking for stuff to sing. There's not really much to be gained from singing Wagner when you're a young student who has to rely on /classical/ giving you recs instead of finding stuff yourself.

>>72482249
Well fuck you too.

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>>72482249
I've been meaning to learn Russian for a while now and that's one of the reasons for it. Could Catholicism really be at the root of the ever higher pitch war though? It seems so plausible (what with the gay priests and castrati) but I haven't thought a lot about it.

>>72482331
That can be arranged. Since you're a tenor I assume you're a bottom? I have only one condition -- that you both cross-dress.

>tfw prefer the Rimsky version of Boris Godunov

>>72482316
I'm just casually listening to these so far, trying to get a feel for the difference in sound between bass and bass-baritone and how I compare. Getting some activity up in here while I'm at it.

I've been looking all these up btw

>>72482249
I've read that basses (profondo at least) are simply more common in Russia, hence even their folk music like Volga Boat Men caters to them.

>listening to this classy bullshit

>...Mussorgsky submitted his completed Boris Godunov to the Board of Directors of the Imperial Theatres ... The freshness and originality of the music nonplussed the honorable members of the committee, who reproved the composer, among other things, for the absence of a reasonably important female role. —Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov, Chronicle of My Musical Life, 1909
>reproved the composer for the absence of a reasonably important female role

What's with academics and feminism?
Fucking pussy worshipping pussies.

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>>72482771

How does it feel to be a cultural dinosaur?

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>>72482701
yeah fuck this fancy shit. My nigga Young thug make way better music.

>>72482771
desu it probably has more to do with the operatic celeb status of those days. they were basically like movie stars

>>72482771
What's with internet morons and their misreading of history to fit their current political agenda.

Those were theatre directors not academics trying to make the most popular entertainment

The same shills coming here to talk shit about classical are the same that go to /lit/ to insult certain philosophers, funny. You can tell by their language and words.

>>72482843
>desu it's not about ideological pussy worshiping it's about celebrity pussy worshiping
Uhm...

>>72482867
dont worry, celebrity dick worship was just as much of a thing

>>72482857
'shill' being a common word among them

>>72482850
Further confirmation that,
Commerce. Kills. Art.

>>72482895
Further confirmation bias. Without commerce there would be no opera.

>>72482857
Some guy took a piss inside /daily/ earlier today and claimed to be from here. It's more likely that they're /daily/ faggots trying to act cute.

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>>72482910
Actually, commerce has very little to do with the existence of opera, or European art music in general. It mostly exists because of ancient-Greece-a-boo noblemen (who, incidentally, for better or worse, disdained commerce) acting as patrons for ambitious musicians.

>>72483027
And those Greek noblemen financed their opera by both commerce and conquest regardless of how much they disdained it. But considering there was a thousand year gap between Greek theatre (which can only tentatively be equated with opera anyway) and later Italianate opera, it is hardly an apt comparison. Italian opera is intimately connected with the rise of Venice, Florence, Genoa and other Italian city states as major international trading powers.

>>72483196
>noblemen financed their opera by
taxing the subjects living on their domains, which they acquired by inheritance, marital alliances, or conquest. It's not just that noblemen themselves disdained commerce, but their subjects were also apt to bring out the pitchforks against any nobleman that tried it. It was considered unfair, a transgression of the rights and duties of the nobility. This is one of the key differences between the Roman patriciate and the later aristocrats.

It's true that burghers and bankers financed a lot of artists in the Italian principalities and republics though. It must be why the italian operatic tradition is the shittiest one of them all, no? .

>>72483369
>>72483196
You're missing my point though: I'm not saying that commercial activity has nothing to do with the existence of art music (after all, artisans had to engage in commerce to acquire the materials used to build musical instruments, for example) but that commerce had little direct influence in the formation of the 'classical' musical tradition in the sense that such music wasn't produced to satisfy commercial demand. Monteverdi didn't write L'Orfeo to sell tickets at the theatre for example, but because Duke Vincenzo Gonzaga liked music and theatre.

>>72483369
The shitty italian operatic tradition is what all subsequent traditions were based on, even Wagner, not some greek theatre which they only partially knew. People like King Ludwig might have been an idle aristocrat with no interest in commerce but his wealth was built on that in previous generations. More importantly though, the people who actually attended opera and made it more than just a sideshow for the rich were there due to the growth of commerce.

Forqueray

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKT76GWaN_w

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>>72482514
Why, if you don't mind me asking? Are you a fan of Rimsky's more traditional style, or...? I'm a filthy Debussy&Stravinsky-boo:

>Rimsky not only glitzed up Mussorgsky’s highly
original but more spare orchestration... he smoothed out complexities in the rhythmic writing,
regularizing Mussorgsky’s sometimes changing meters, and he altered some of Mussorgsky’s more novel harmonies.
>When Stravinsky first met Debussy, they talked about Mussorgsky’s songs, which, according to Stravinsky, “Debussy thought contained the best music of the whole Russian school. [...] He did not like Rimsky, whom he called ‘a voluntary academic, the worst kind.’”
>Asked about his own attitude toward
Mussorgsky during the period when he was Rimsky’s student, Stravinsky replied:
>At that time, being influenced by the master who had recomposed almost the whole work of Mussorgsky, I repeated what was usually said about his “big talent” and “poor musicianship” and about the “important services” rendered by Rimsky to his “embarrassing” and “unpresentable” scores.
>Very soon I realized the partiality of this kind of mind, however, and changed my attitude toward Mussorgsky. This was even before my contact with the French composers, who, of course, were all fiercely opposed to Rimsky’s “transcriptions.” It was too obvious, even to an influenced mind [like my own] that Rimsky’s Meyerbeerization of Mussorgsky’s “technically imperfect” music could no longer be tolerated. [Mussorgsky’s] original scores always show infinitely more true musical interest and genuine intuition than the “perfection” of Rimsky’s arrangements.

(My view is more or less the same. Please, anyone, help me understand Rimsky's edits from a different perspective.

/honest plea)

>>72484336
Aaand... Nope, tried listening to the Cluytens recording of Rimsky's edit again. Can't even finish the Prologue. So much pointless ornamentation, so much in-your-face pentatonic scale fetishism. BWAARGHHHHHHHH!!! My autism can't take it. Rimsky's version isn't more traditional. It's gaudy. To hell with this hack's shit.

>tfw when you realize Pelléas et Mélisande is Parsifal + Boris

>>72485315
Boris?

>>72485339
Godunov

I watched a production of Pelleas the other day on youtube, the one with Hannigan. Interesting production, notably for the well scene actually taking place in an empty swimming pool.

And anyway, isn't it closer to Tristan than Parsifal?

>>72485499
I think so, but a very stoic Tristan.

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>>72485315
>>72485499
>mfw it's actually true
How in the world did this never cross my mind before?

>>72485499
Pretty sure Pelleas quotes Parsifal a few times and Debussy said he even had to rewrite a few scenes because Parsifal kept coming up.

>Claude Debussy thought the characters and plot ludicrous, but nevertheless in 1903 wrote that musically it was "Incomparable and bewildering, splendid and strong. Parsifal is one of the loveliest monuments of sound ever raised to the serene glory of music." He was later to write to Ernest Chausson that he had deleted a scene he had just written for his own opera Pelléas et Melisande because he had discovered in the music for it 'the ghost of old Klingsor, alias R. Wagner'.

>Debussy died of rectal cancer
Literally asspained to death

post renaissance music boyz

cute obrecht: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcBFV2XFKAY
melancholy a. agricola: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRTzu2ZI9Ck
saccharine binchois: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mrFvp1xOdA

>>72486387
Just listening to this now, does it still counts as Renaissance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxEeoRzbZ6U

>>72486387
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EniGwWZD6Hw

>>72482782
>surprised that women do what they do best: complaining

Is Varese even good?

Who's a good conductor for Tannhäuser and Parsifal?

>>72487793
He was a blowhard that was better at marketing himself and his ideas about music than he was at writing music. His kind is worth a dime a dozen. He would probably feel right at home in /classical/.

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>>72488220
Giuseppe Sinopoli.

>>72488220
Parsifal: Knappertsbusch and Kubelik.

Telemann is underrated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1Us-8qkYE4

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>>72488678
>mfw someone finally understands
Even Bach thought Telemann was underrated, so much so that he copied the first few bars of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79etYWWA3r4

>>72488678
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giYtcSU9nxc

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bach on the electric bass

https://youtu.be/oKoupGdoj7Y

>>72488776
What an awful excuse of an instrument.

>>72488746
>>72488751
My melanin-enriched companion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D-y2kJU0lg

The Presto of this concerto is some good shit.

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>>72488776

How do I get into classic? Have been playing piano (classical) for 2 years, listening to random stuff on youtube, and lurking here, but until now I can't really make sense of it or develop a feeling for a certain composer/period that I favor.
How did you get into it? Any essentials or general tips?

Some things that I like so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrVDATvUitA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1MIgBxnyng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxAj4to-aQ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2YtE0LRCOo

>>72488678
>Telemann is underrated
Hmm... but check this out --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U_mdhkfQzk

>>72489156
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSiwMR3dBUY

>>72489156
How the fuck does one play classical piano for 2 (two!) years without acquiring a feel for classical? You do it under duress or something? Fucking asians...

>>72489426
I like the guitar on the G major one.

But violins for C:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D-y2kJU0lg

>>72488837
>>72489606
Try this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-k_TukIjG0

>>72489606
You posted the wrong video.

>>72489779
sheeeeeeeeeeit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdGj2KPHqJY

>>72488471
>>72488528
Ok thanks, gonna give them a listen

>>72489831
>>72489606
Every single one of those 4 concertos for 4 violins is better on 2 to 4 guitars or 1 to 2 keyboard instruments. I have no idea why Telemann wrote them for 4 violins. None of them utilise any of the particularities of the violin.

>>72490123
Probably just the musicians he had at his disposal, doesn't mean he was any good at using them. He doesn't seem like a very imaginative composer most of the time.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqggjg07IH4

>>72490330
>>72490123
The violins have an easier time blending and layering together than guitars, IMO. They sound more like one instrument playing lots of different notes while being a little more accented than a keyboard.

I think it's an idea he tried more than once (one instrument sounding like multiple, or multiple instruments sounding like one)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX9nd0zXF7U

>>72490619
Meant to add: go to 59:52 on that recording and you'll hear what I mean. Double stops all over the place.

Best recordings of John DOWLAND?
Anyone got a link to DOWNLOAD?

>>72490752
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv-IERZe4ew

>>72486387
sang in a concert this evening including Victoria's requiem. Very grumpy that this Renaissance group only really focuses on late renaissance instead of the earlier stuff. I just want as much franco-flemish stuff in my life as possible really.
>>72488220
usually for Wagner you should look at best singers first and then choose a conductor based upon the recordings of the best singers

I really wish I knew more ballet dancers so I could discuss their relationship with classical music in more depth.