Why don't conservatives get art?

Why don't liberals know when enough is enough? A great philosopher once said Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

>>70911116
because they're too busy running important things like the government and science

>>70911149
but conservashits are terrible at science

I think PJW has some mild form of autism so that might contribute

>>70911149
>scientists
>conservative

I'm a conservative and I "get" art.

>>70911182
do you?

>>70911182
Same. But these threads are stupid so someone post the Herbie reviews.

>>70911177
Scientists will be whatever their paid to be.

>>70911116
>pop music
>art

>>70911116
whos this semen demon

Conservatism is inherently against progression. Art is something that is constantly pushing forward.
Talking about extreme cases of course, most normal conservatives are just that: normal.

>>70911149
>science
WRONG

The left only knows how to create popular (((art))).

they put too much focus in logic™

But high art has an inherent conservative vibe.

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>not buying objectively superior art and objectively superior larping gear from based burzum

>>70911305
why are conservatives so fucking ugly

they're too busy burning leftist literature to get anything, really

>>70911116
Conservatives don't understand how to enjoy anything without a "function"

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>>70911116
We already have Three threads about this video.
Can you please check the catalog before?

>>70911317
boy on the left is kinda qt

>>70911208
Yes.
>>70911248
>conservatism is inherently against progression
You are very obviously using "progressive" out of the political context. True conservatives are all for progress as long as it aids the free market.
>>70911340
Liberals font understand how to enjoy anything without setting cars on fire and smashing in the windows of businesses
See I can make sweeping generalizations too!

Conservative here. I get art. The real question you should be asking is "Why don't dumb people get art?", which answers itself.

>>70911367
>anime
tl;dr
Please leave.

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>>70911384
Hey there, newshit.

>>70911384
Anime has been here longer than you have, and it will continue to be here even when you go back to rebbit

>>70911143
>if you're not a conservative then you're a liberal
LOL!

>>70911372
Yeah good point, all those sports fans that riot after playoff games are definitely liberals

>>70911397
>>70911404
I've been here for 15 years... lol loser

>>70911305
imagine being any one of those retards

>>70911384
>doesn't like anime
>is on 4chan

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

>>70911225
some yeah, but most dont give a fuck about money or politics

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>>70911384
but 4chan si about anime you dummi

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>>70911143
Muh liberals

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>>70911116
Is that Fognini?

>>70911369
>enourmous overbite

>>70911471
I've been on 4chan since '92
Get the fuck out

>>70911444
>all those sports fans that riot after playoff games
not him, just following this soon to be pruned thread but are you actually retarded or are you just pretending?

>>70911503
that picture doesn't make any fucking sense at all

>>70911444
Yeah, all conservatives are retarded sports fans and all liberals are minimum wage drug addicts. I like this generalizing thing.
>>70911471
No you haven't.

>>70911503
>Burzum
>/blue/
?

Without conservatives in art, who would be there to defend video games from girls?

WHO?

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>>70911576
you wot?

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>>70911374
>>70911340
>>70911182
>>70911268
>>70911294
>>70911374
lol

>>70911576
he's socially very conservative and has defended communism

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Conservatives appreciate art more than you realize.

They appreciate art that takes time and effort, art that is transcendent and beautiful, not (((modern art))) garbage where cat-ladies-in-training menstruate all over a canvas and pretend that it means anything other than shock value.

>muh subjectivity

Michelangelo isn't considered a genius because he used shit or piss as a medium. He had skill and dedication that any person of worth would appreciate.

I'm conservative and my favorite album is trout mask replica. what do i win?

>>70911503
Varg in 2017 is an anarcho-primitive type dude. I think that would be bottom right corner.

The Knife should be bottom left corner.

Kiss should swap places with Zappa.

Corgan should swap places with Kid rock.

Beyonce should be in the red somewhere.

Sonic Youth should be further to the left.

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>>70911661

>>70911628
>le pwetty landscapes

Hey, conservatives will never understand art

>>70911534
Conservatives don't understand emotion, typically. This is backed by facts. Sorry.

>>70911588
is that movement still a thing at all? it's been a few years

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Oh hey! Politics!

My least favorite. Yippee.
Which Hancock album should I review...hmmm...

>>70911742
its in hibernation, video games is save from SJWs........................for now

>>70911116
I bet you'd consider that gay porn that was taken down from YT to be art.

>>70911305
>Nu-males wearing t-shirt with photoshopped images on them because they don't know what Google is

>>70911758
Lite Me Up

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>>70911838
Fuck.
(Fuck)
[Fuck]
>Fuck

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>>70911918
I just want you to know
Every time someone brings up Lite Me Up to you
It's me.
I think I'm at 12 or so times now.

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>>70911503
>tfw Swans trancends political agendas

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This god awful aged-like-milk abomination is known as 'Lite Me Up', released in 1982.

This was the last and by far worst of his 5 disco albums. He had pretty much given up on quality at this point. He had hired songwriter Rod Temperton, best known for writing for pop star Michael Jackson, to help co write the album.

...Just imagine 'Off The Wall' but a fuckton worse.
Nothing redeemable. Completely god damn tacky. Not worth your time. And unlike his other disco albums it doesn't even have at least ONE good track. Avoid completely.

Most tolerable song on here is Fun Tracks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB2F95d53ls

>>70911969
Swans is Chaotic Neutral.

Dude remember when MTV, like, played music? The KIIIDS these days just don't get it, with their One Directions and Kanye Easts.

>>70911177
That me though.

conservatives can get art but arent capable of listening or consuming anything out of the ordinary without pretense of what REAL art is. Someone that puts utmost importance on monetary income and misguided moral righteousness just isnt imaginative to fully grasp abstract or unconventional art even if they can appreciate it.

>>70911246

Pol Josif Wotson

>>70911956
Traitor....

why do conservatives bitch about postmodernism so much?

I feel so bad for conservatives, not being able to produce or understand art must really hurt. Assuming they even feel that is.

>>70912331
requires theory of mind
they suck at anything even vaguely social

>>70911678
>Beyonce
>Left wing
Lmao

>>70912203
I still love you Herbieanon. You're doing God's work.

>>70912331
because embracing irony is the cancer killing society

>>70912428
I love you too. I'm doing reviews in another thread so I keep bouncing back and forth.

>>70912434
>pepe frog

>>70912434
irony pre-dates postmodernism and has little to do with it, you're not qualified to have your opinion

>>70912453
nice reading skills you cum guzzler

>>70912487
explain

>>70911116
But conservatives made all the greatest art in the past

>>70912487
why did he misread?

>>70911116

Because they only care about money and the only music you can sell in large quantities is terrible.

>>70912434
Oh my god ikr we should all be super serious. No fun allowed.

>>70911116
Really makes you think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avb8cwOgVQ8&t=0s

>>70911611
huh? i'm not conservative

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STAAHP LISNIN TO MAYNE STREEME MYUZAK

>>70911503
>MSP
MAnic Street Preachers?

>>70911384
>all these triggered weeaboos
kek

>>70912050
He praised Kayne in one of his videos

>>70912541
holy shit this is such a stupid video

>>70912651
t. bothoot ess jay double yoo

Name ONE good leftard artist outside popular art.

>>70912651
I think everything by that guy is.

>>70912004
>implying being ""neutral"" on the graph doesn't transcend politics

>>70912696
me

>>70912541
all celebs are leftists... but all leftists are ugly. how does that work?

>>70911618
>socially conservative
>defends communism
again, ?

>>70911969
>Implying Gira isn't a lefty.

>>70911618
>defended communism
top qeq

I think it comes down to self image.

Many conservatives, myself included, are somewhat more pessimistic and skeptical. Most conservatives I know are inherently more self conscious and are less likely to do things where they cannot be objective.

What I mean by this is that conservatives tend to view everything slightly more negatively so they automatically assume that if they do something like art, dance, etc they will be criticized heavily because there is no objectively correct art or objectively correct dance.

Note that this excludes all the old people who don't get art simply because they're old and the military men who don't get art because they're just focused on masculinity.

Leftists use art as a fashion statement, they don't "get" anything

>>70911116

Conservatives correctly recognize that "innovation" in art is often just the result of social signalling to make more and more extreme and distorted forms of an art without any effort put into making it constructive or beautiful.

>>70911618
>has defended communism
u fookin wot?

>>70911163

Conservative racists have more data-based and predictively valid beliefs than most university professors regarding race differences in the United States.

art is empathetic

I swear to god I'm about to drop Herbie's worst album up in here....

That's a classical liberal conspiracy theorist. Actual conservatives like Sir Roger Scruton understand art perfectly well.

>>70913048
Normies/lefty people can't feel real empathy unless it's for Harry Potter characters.

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>>70913012
>excuse me m'lady, but there's a sjw to go troll
>tips fedora

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>>70911116
But im a conservative and I love music and art.

>>70911661
Conservative Catholic/Thomist philosopher Edward Feser's favorite album is Aja

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>>70913073
>Oscar Izard
>Izard
>Lizard
Coincidence? I think not

>>70913087

You're probably a closet leftist.

>>70913087
nah you're a dumb frogposter

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>>70911503
>death in june
>authoritarian right

I tried to warn you all....
..you wouldn't listen...

.....I had to...I'm sorry....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEHVKfIqQ9U

>>70913087
>thinks he can understand art without first understanding the plight of the proletariat

But catholics developed music theory you dumb fuck.

>>70911503
> The Clash
> Red
What?

As a conservative, I must say: Paul acted like a fucking idiot on that video.

>>70913180
>Christianity = conservatism

>>70913180
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

>>70913281
>implying that the catholic church isn't conservative

>>70913281
>implying there are any conservative atheists

>>70913383
Bait? You realize that like half the alt-right identify as atheists? They were Ron Paul libertarians that turned into reactionaries.

>>70913410
then they are not conservative

>>70913429
they're culturally conservative

>>70913429
Of course they are, you don't have to agree 100%.

>>70913180
>implying conservatists wouldn't all go to hell if it exists

>>70913429
Is wanting close borders, little to no cultural diversity considered liberal? I think you may be retarded anon.

>>70913482
I wrote conservatists

I'll take the L on that one lads

>>70911116
Look into psychology and the correlation between being and organized person and conservative thought. Conservatives are scared of anything that challenges their accepted world view while liberals are more disorganized and creative which by definition is against set rules and norms that conservatives value so much.

>>70912100

I think this may be the most asinine thing I've ever read. The worst part is I can practically smell your preening sense of superiority through the computer.

>>70913057
https://youtu.be/FOKEFoDXVDw

>>70913281
>t-the church isn't conservative
L M A O

>>70913540
I did...

>>70913150

>>70912100

0/10, try being more subtle next time

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Ahahaha

>>70913572
Whoops

why is thread allowed but i got banned for 3 days for talking shit about shaun king

>>70913516
I cant see it behind all of your butthurt

>>70913614

> "You balding triggered hipster douche"
> Anthony is already bald

Why can't PJW into thinking?

>>70913507
Your own biases are showing through in your interpretation of psychology. psychology shows us that the brain has evolved a set of defences that are inherent in all humans, not just conservatives, for the purpose of sustaining a personal worldview. the worldview of a person and the personality trait of a person are two separate things, you seem to be confusing them. it's a personality trait to be high in openness or low in openness. Whether you have high or low openness your brain still has those inherent defence mechanisms that are designed to sustain your own worldview.

>>70913006
the vikings were really into sharing, didn't you know?

>>70911149
you mean they're too busy trying to figure out how to fuck over the other guy for money

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>>70913672

>PJW

Pre-pubescent Jelly Warriors?

>>70911116
because THIS is what happens when trying to explain a SUBJECTIVE subject to useful idiot Pied Piper rats.

art is emotion. Lieberals are all about that. Facts don't matter to them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3609779/What-spectacle-Student-glasses-floor-pretended-art-people-immediately-started-cooing-taking-pictures.html

>>70913614
DID THE CULTURAL MARXIST WHO INVENTED POPULAH CULTCHUH GO TO PUPOOLUH CAHLCHA

>>70912623

>>70913174
kinda this

>>70913614
Why does the melon want to get into a flame war with some /pol/tarded limey? It just seems like pointless shitflinging and I can't see it winning him any fans.

>>70913826
Honestly I'd love to see PJW try to respond, it would be a great laugh

>>70913757

>current president literally elected by pure emotion with no regard for facts

>>70912541
>look at comments and everyone's listing their age and "deep" observations

If PJW thinks Hopsin is a talented artist and Muse is a good band then I think there's nothing noteworthy that's going to come of his video.

It's probably going to be 10 minutes of him stringing together buzzwords like "post-modernist nihilists" back-to-back like he did in the beginning of his first video.

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MODS

>>70913859

>Previous president literally elected because of race with no regard for policy

>>70913507
>look into psychology

what a baseless stupid thing to say

psychology is such a shotgun blast approach at knowledge that it really should not be considered really anything near a science.

There's no scientific basis for psychotherapy and don't even get me started on the "authoritarian personality disorder" created by horkheimer et all.

CBT makes some sense, but if there isn't any neuroscience backing the behavioral claims it's just junk.

What your saying is literally just "occupy democrats" tier rubbish

Also PJW is an idiot. He's the right wing equivalent of lacy green

Conservative here who wrote their dissertation on aestheticist critical theory im pretty sure i get art

>>70913968
sorry but this is not about you, snowflake

>>70913968
go lynch more gays, loser

I agreed with his points.

>>70913614
what a circle jerk

poser right wing faggot vs hipster know it all faggot

great can't wait

>>70914015
>>70913614
>>70911116


its clearly arranged, they just creat dram blablaba, you idiots

>>70913150
who would listen to this trite?

>>70914062

>Everything is fake and gay!

You have to be 18 to post on this website

>>70914063
people that actually post here for a start

>>70913990
>>70913988
t. Lefties who think nodding your head to bob dylan sentiments means they "get" art but couldn't even name a school of criticism

>>70913968
>who wrote their dissertation on aestheticist critical theory

liberal here. why would you waste your money and brain cells on this?

>>70914088
so tasteless brainlets?

>>70913945
>I don't have an argument so I'll bring up Obama just like liberals did with Bush

>>70913968
>I'm pretentious so I get art

>>70914063
>>70914088
I posted his worst on purpose.

>>70914104
Why are you on an art board if you consider engagement with and understanding of art to be a waste of brain cells?

>>70914062

This, /mu/ are fucking retards who fell for babbys first youtube drama

>>70914108
yes let's see how good the taste in /pol/ music threads are

>>70914125
If you are sincerely using the word "pretentious" pejoratively then i have a feeling that you dont get art...

>>70913968
>critical theory
literally the biggest crock of shit i've ever been exposed to.
i had an art history prof who was big into this nonsense. he wouldn't stop singing me praise for reasons i don't know. all i wrote for him was socratic nonsense, and i never posited anything that wasn't overly superficial and blanket

>>70913281

the catholic church invented conservatism

>>70914160
>/pol/ spook
waaw. not liking that garbage makes me a racist?
you're a waste

>>70914098
lol got too much poop in your diaper??

FUCK off...

fact -> conservatives dont understand art

>>70914161
>get art
the only way to "get art" is to create art
solely consuming art is no better than eating shit or watching TV

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>>70914187
desu herbie is pretty trash jazz, aside from his early stuff

>>70914203
t b h not desu you fucking wordfilter piece of shit

>>70914165
You probably do actually subconsciously subscribe to some form of critical theory if you regularly engage with music. And its true that a lot of types of critical theories are narrow and near-useless trash, but aestheticism is not one of them.

>>70914136
critical theory accomplishes neither of those things.

>>70914202
>i made a finger painting now i can accurately comprehend joyce!

>>70914194
Think youll find that people into diaper fetishism are all liberals friend!

>>70914203
while i can appreciate jazz, and the supermajority of my experience with it comes from my university's jazz band, i cannot say i enjoy it for the most part. in my experience, the musicians employ a select few tricks to spice up their music via improvisation. a couple hours listening to my university's band play eliminated any novelty of these techniques to me

>>70914224
could you describe the difference in detail for me; or at least link me to someplace?

>>70914260
t brainlet

>>70914237
t. Guy who doesnt know what aestheticism is and got his knowledge of critical theory from /pol/ infodumps

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>>70913012
Then how come not a single conservative person understand the most basic scientific idea that "correlation does not mean causation"? Because if you actually read all the studies their views are based on, they actually explain how the conclusion that race causes these things are wrong. It's almost like onservatives just cherry pick science when it benefits them, just like liberals.

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>>70913096

relevant


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNI07egoefc

>>70914272
im sure your university jazz band is all that jazz has to offer, anon. you sure have explored the genre and all of its possibilities, how could i possibly argue with you!

>>70913968
who are your favorite composers

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>>70911628
>conservatives actually believe this

>>70911628
>not (((modern art))) garbage where cat-ladies-in-training menstruate all over a canvas and pretend that it means anything other than shock value.
if this is really what all you know about modern art i suggest you shut up

>>70914342
instead of crying about my (admittedly) under representative experience, you could have tried to introduce me to material that you think i could enjoy.
if all jazz fans are this infantile, i don't want to associate myself with you

>>70911503

Iannis Xenakis was literally a communist revolutionary when he was younger

>>70914272
Google litb4 critical anthology and read the short pdf that comes up, it is a standard introduction to critical theory that outlines the most popular approaches without too much meme shit. Section C is the bit that summarizes aestheticist theory, section A is the garbage political lens theories, section B is mostly irrelevant to music and a bit obvious but worth reading if you like literature.

>>70913322
>>70913566
>>70914178
this is only true in the modren age, Catholic Church was once the only voice that mattered and was both liberal and conservative depending on the time period and location

>>70911628
>photorealistic representations of real life
>good art


paintings like that are literally just an exercise in technical skill and hold zero merit as good art. what emotions does that painting express?

>>70914406

im not who youre responding to but ty anon for interesting stuff to read

>>70914394
see >>70914203
i literally told you about herbie's early stuff on my first post in this thread.
we also make jazz /blindfold/ threads every friday and try to introduce /mu/ to jazz music with different themes, not to mention the constant threads discussing old albums and the charts that jtg and herbieanon made.
so fuck off.

>>70914346
Herbert Eimert, Vladimir Ussachevsky, Iannis Xenakis

>>70914309
this is like "old man yells at cloud", but with shitty animation

>>70912541
cringe

>>70914425
Yeah dude, menstrual blood in a canvas is better than that painting because it actually express the emotions of being a womyn.

>>70914439
>herbie
i don't spend my fridays on /mu/
but i'll check out his "early stuff"

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>>70911116
>conservative opinions on art

>>70913948
I mean reward systems in the brain sort of give credence to CBT don't they?

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>>70914466
there are also charts made by some good people on here

>>70911397
Fuck anime you fucking weirdo neckbeard weeb I shit on you faggots

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>>70914481
>Art reduced to personal expression
>reduced

can conservatives go back to law school and accounting and leave art forever lmao

>>70912541
alt right fag here

everyone on this side hates him. He's just cashing in on an opportune moment. Milo is a gay, coal burning jew and PJW refuses to actually address real right wing issues like the JQ, racial IQ, etc. They both swing for the low hanging fruit of feminism and SJW culture. When he started out criticizing islam it was alright i guess, but now he is just right right wing buzzfeed.

Say what you will about us. At least we're honest.

>>70911628
see>>70914481

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>>70914464
If you can't understand why pic related is better than photorealistic paintings of Jesus you should leave this board

>>70914481
this sums it up pretty well. conservatives despise personal expression and will never understand art on a fundamental level

>>70914481
personal expression != emotional expression
modern art is masturbatory in the sense that you MUST know about the artist and the field to begin to feel for the art.
as a "conservative" i believe that art must be able to rouse emotion (aside from bewilderment) from even the most uneducated man for it to be considered "good"

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>>70914558
i dont get it, they're all about individualism and muh freedom, but when it comes to art everyone has to look and sound and do the same shit. how does that make any sense?

>>70911503
I am literally right next to Kanye according to this chart. Fuck yeah.

>>70914578
how about the fact that not all modern art is postmodern or meta? how can you sum up all modern art under that umbrella when really it's just a facet of all art being created?

>>70914558
>this sums it up pretty well. conservatives despise personal expression and will never understand art on a fundamental level

you're being just as dense as he is. Dali was a conservative that low key sided with the francoist fascists.

It's not that easy, dude.

>>70914558
"Better" at boosting the artists ego maybe

>>70914609
All contemporary art is actually postmodern

>>70914558
>comparing Guernica to shit on a canvas
Kill yourself.

>>70914609
since i appealed to "uneducated man", i used the uneducated definition

>>70914590
>individualism and muh freedom

Because they just claim to like those ideas, just like conservatives idealize fiscal conservatism, but reblican senators make barely anymore cuts than liberal ones. They just think the words sound pretty, there beliefs are really counter to them.

>>70914590
it doesn't, just like most of their retarded hypocritical opinions

they literally fit into the most boring cookie cutter stereotype and don't realize it, which is embarrassing because they criticize the """left""" for all being the same

>>70911503
orchid should be a lot farther south

>>70914309
Jesus christ that is the most pretentious thing I have ever watched.

>>70911116
Itt normies pretending to not be
FUCKING KEK GOD DAMN I LOVE YOU MU

>>70914578
>from even the most uneducated man

the most uneducated man couldn't have even picked out high quality calssical art from shitty immitations, why would you care what they think? They don't care about art, it's purely a neat commodity for them to look at and then forget.

>>70912541
who is actually forced to sit in a class about colonialism or gender studies? Does this actually happen in the US? In Canada I had a left leaning/progressive history teacher in HS but thats about it. Does this actually happen?

>>70914708
if he has the same emotional response to "high quality classical" and "shitty immitations" what value does one have over the other?

>>70914711
maybe if you're retarded about choosing elective courses it could

I listen to mortan feldman, i read james joyce, i hate capitalism, i am a radical intellectual

>>70914645
>All contemporary art is actually postmodern
that's blatantly untrue

>>70914652
i was saying it's leagues better....

>>70914614
dali's political views changed throughout his life, but my point still stands in my opinion. there are VERY few good conservative artists

>>70914731
that it was created first and done with higher skill, at least that's the argument these idiots are making. If you believe that an immitation has no more value than the original than you conede artisitc intent doesnt matter and you are 20% on the way to postmodernist thinking.

>>70914406
i'm almost done, and this stuff seems fatally deconstructive.
i'm not liking it

goddamn fantano destroyed him. can't wait to hear his shitty whining actually triggered response

>>70913968
do you like derrida?

>>70914752
>there are VERY few good conservative artists
you know that the best writers are conservative, right?

>>70914752
>there are VERY few good conservative artists

your point doesn't stand, youre speaking in incredibly broad generalizations.

I'm sure Michaelangelo, Van Eyk, etc were not "liberal" by todays terms.

All art is impacted by our material and temporal circumstances. If art functions as a window into the other, if it's honest, how is it bad?

>>70914765
it would have more valuable from a historical and technical standpoint, but what about the perspective of an art consumer?
why denigrate to a low quality imitation rather than a high quality reproduction, just to bolster your shallow argument?

>>70914275
yeah I know that (((critical theory))) aka cultural marxism is a plot by the joos to commit white genocide

Fuck dumpf and fuck white people

>>70914810
i'ts not that. it's just vacuous
>>70914812
>>>/tv/

>>70914802
but they were also quite possibly liberal by there days terms, liberal is only relative to the time in which they were alive. If they were liberals than they would be a modern liberal if they were born 300 years later.

>>70914578
>context for art isnt allowed

>>70914796
[citation needed]

>>70914802
>not "liberal" by todays terms

I'm saying that great art is fundamentally progressive. good artists look forward, not backwards. i don't even mean conservative politically, necessarily. i just mean that the artist needs to be artistically progressive, and clinging to old traditions and ideas is a very unusual trait among historically great artists, musicians, writers, etc.

>>70914830
>read my diary is an appropriate context for high art
don't complain that people "don't get it" if they've had to smell your farts to understand

>>70914752
Postmodern art literally means art that was made after modernism, unless you can find an artist who has spent their life in a cave and never interacted with the world since before world war 1 then all contemporary art is postmodern

Perhaps it's their lower IQ?

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0963721414549750

>>70914825
>>70914839

It's all cyclical. The enlightenment scholars dug up old greek texts. They were "progressives" by their time frame but they were reading stuff written hundreds of years before they were born.

Clinging to notions of progress is foolish. There is no progress in my opinion. There is honesty.

>>70914803
Im arguing from the perspective of that conservative man who so highly praises classical artists like Michaelanglo. If you agree that Michaelangelo had value, but also argue that the common person's opinion matters, and the common person can't tell the difference between Michalangelo and some 2014 sculoptor from Thailand, than the whole argument is fundementally flawed. I personally think imitation is shitty art because it is devoid of creative expression, but that's not the argument im making here.

>>70914790
No deconstructionism is a complete meme school that is useless for 99% of art and only worth applying to art made specifically with deconstructionist theory in mind

>>70914869
no, it doesn't just refer to the time period, obviously. it refers specifically to works that react to modernism.

you can still make works that are modernist and not postmodernist today, they refer to movements with pretty specific ideas, not broad time periods

>>70914869
I think people have a hard time making the distinction between post modern philosophy and post modern as a literal marker of time passage.

>>70914881
why bring up his praise? that's inconsequential to my position.
i'm concerned with his emotional reaction, not his opinion on its quality

>>70914871
any moron can understand that taking what isn't rightfully yours is theft. you leftist faggots can't understand that, and yet you have higher iqs than conservatives. hmmmmmm.

>>70914871
>iq is a good measure to insult conservatives
>iq is a bad measure to judge intelligence of black people
MY ALMONDS, THEY'RE ACTIVATING ON THEIR OWN

>>70914880
there is progress, i don't know what you're talking about. it's not cyclical. people react to things, and often there is a back and forth generation-to-generation, but things move forward

>>70914896
i mean in this context i was pretty clearly talking about postmodernism as a movement and philosophy

>>70914894
How the fuck is trying to make a modernist work not reacting to modernism in your mind? You have been exposed to modernism, the things you make are reactive to the modernist and postmodern stimuli you have been fed, therefore anything you make is postmodern

>>70914880
despite weird modern approximations of greeks as "liberal" they did not have half the social equality we had today (not least of all in the fact women had no political voice), and the progressives of the 1800s were not nearly as far along as we are (agian just look at the role of women). There is definetly change over time, wether good or bad is matter of opinion, but I don't see how any of this is remotely cyclical.

I listen to mortan feldman, i read james joyce, i hate capitalism, i am a radical intellectual

>>70914925
Its not a movement, a movement is like dadaism or new sincerity

>>70914892
can I get straight into adorno, or should I read him with commentary or primers to critical theory?

>>70914922
You realize that most black people are liberals and tend to vote democrat every year, right? So, in your own words, that makes white conservatives even more behind the curve than you'd think.

>>70914905
ok, so if the common man's emotional reaction is the measure of how good something is than you end at the problem that their reaction is completely dependant on the society, individual, kind of day they had, how their dad treated him, what they ate that morning, etc

thats not a theory of art that's following a sea of idiots

>>70914927
>How the fuck is trying to make a modernist work not reacting to modernism in your mind?
the same way trying to make disco music isn't making punk?

>>70914957
new sincerity is a movement that reacts to postmodernism as a movement. this isn't just my opinion dude, postmodernism is definitely a movement, there are a trillion papers on it, i'll send you them if you really still disagree with me

>>70914812
NO TRUMP!
NO KKK!!
NO FACIST USA!!!!!!1

Joking aside, I hate Trump as much as the next guy but if you seriously think he's going to dismantle American democracy as we know it and install a fascist dictatorship you're just delusional.

>>70914971
>black people are liberals
>liberals are smart
pick one, bucko

>>70914961
Read him first and then read around him if you're having trouble. He's fairly comprehendable.

>>70914978
while you 100% intentionally misinterpreted my position so it was easier to attack, you're on the right track.
i'm coming from an impressionist point of view, except i dont' care about a piece of art conveying the same exact emotional response every time; but rather a piece's ability to convey any broad sense of emotion at all
>sea of idiots
you'll fit right in

>>70914932
>>70914925

this is teleological logic. this implies an end goal or something to strive for. Progressives are generally, in my experiences, are generally pretty nihilistic when it comes to morals and knowledge. If there is no end point, nothing to progress towards how is anything really moving in that direction. Sure there is material change, but this is not progress. This is circumstances creating the environment that artists live in.

Progress as some noble ideal is dumb.

>>70914812
if you hate white people so much then stop using things invented by whites. go live in a country with no whites.... wait, you won't? why not?????

>>70914971
>black
>liberal
i don't think you understand what "liberal" means
you seem to think it means the exclusive support of welfare programs

>>70914994
Disco isnt a fucking era its a genre, that is an absurd equivalence

New sincerity is a movement within postmodernism

>>70915051
leftists call themselves liberals because they're delusional. everyone calls them liberals.

>>70913180
No they didn't. Aspects of theory have been in existence for almost a thousand years before the Catholic Church even became a legit thing.

>>70914839
>[citation needed]

>who is borges
>who is mishima
>who is hamsun
>who is dostoyevsky
>who is literally half of the western philosophy canon

>>70914812
>>70914995

I honestly don't understand why people hate trump so much. Maybe i've just gone so far down the 4chan hole that I view chaos as desirable, but at least it's exciting.

"Oh no he wants to ban literally the worst groups of people on earth"

>>70914776
Interpretation of art is inherently deconstructive unless you are just handwaving and bullshitting, but Aestheticism is one of the few schools of thought where you consider the art as a fully realized whole rather than just looking at some narrow elements

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>>70911317
why are liberals so fucking ugly

>>70915051
desu blacks don't even really do politics. they can barely go out and vote most of the time.

Blinded by hatred and they think everything is "degenerate". In other words, they are boring, basic bitches

>>70915033
>This is circumstances creating the environment that artists live in.
this is exactly what i mean though. but i mean how can you deny that there are certain ideas of progress that exist in art?

for instance, before like the 17th century there were just shitty 2D paintings. then an artist found out about perspective, which opened up tons of doors in painting. then at some point artists got tired of that, and modernism came around (pollock, rothko, etc), then people got tired of that and meta stuff like postmodernism came around. things are reactions to other things.

but progress definitely exists. when we went from daguerreotypes to photography, that was definitely progress. the weird nihilistic idea that everything is the same just doesn't really make much sense to me

and it exists in any medium, music too. good artists like miles davis always were looking forward. he reacted against bebop with modal jazz, modal jazz with fusion (or in coltranes case, free jazz). i mean that artists look forward. which is why traditionalist hacks like marsalis will never be remembered

>>70914961
A cool bunch of legit musicology reads if you're legit interested. Includes the Adorno piece.

https://taruskinchallenge.wordpress.com/musicology-must-reads-2/

>>70913968
>conservative
>critical theory
Lmao

>>70915118
>replying to the OP this late
boy, conversation has moved on. get with the program

>>70915052
>New sincerity is a movement within postmodernism
no, it isn't.

> It generally describes creative works that expand upon and break away from concepts of postmodernist irony and cynicism, representing a partial return to modernism.

DFW literally coined the term, and he specifically said it is NOT postmodernism, and it's a reaction against that

>>70915125
I guess I can agree with you there, but I don't like the term "progress" for that.

Progress implies some objective goal to move towards. I think what we have is reaction and interaction. Standing on the shoulders if you would. New is exciting, and I like that but progress just reeks of pretension imo

>>70915125
>it took artists 400 years to discover perspective after modern trigonometry was invented
brainlets, every one

>>70914810
Marxist theory as a whole is actually alright, its basically about the fact that every piece of art will be influenced by the artists life experiences (not so true anymore with the advent of generative art but it made sense at the time). Feminist theory is the properly crazy shit, full of strange assertions (in a fairly pivotal feminist text it is repeatedly stated that metaphors are inherently phallic without any explanation) and general schizo nonsense.

I'm right wing and smarter and more artistically inclined than anyone in this thread

>>70915161
>I guess I can agree with you there, but I don't like the term "progress" for that.
fair enough, whatever you want to call it. but then again, "progress" doesn't have to mean anything objective really. it just means moving forward

>>70915161
>Progress implies some objective goal to move towards
Not that guy, but it never has. That's not even the definition of the word. Progress entails onward movement in general from one thing to the next, it can be good or bad or neither.

>>70915131
t. another guy who doesnt know what aestheticism is and bases his opinion of critical theory on /pol/ dumps

(((art)))

>>70915194
>smarter
eat shit brainlet.
i'm going to be a physics PhD

>>70915194
I'm a marxist black feminist and I have the biggest dick in this thread

>>70915235
>falling for the STEM meme
monkey brains

>>70915148
>a reaction against postmodernism
>not postmodern
Lol

He can say it all he wants but it doesnt make it true

>>70911116
They are too fucking stupid.

Fact of the matter is, if you think Critical Theory is bad then you know nothing about art.

But I'm sure you all have written research on the Darmstadt school too...

>>70915233
sums it up pretty well

>>70915248
what's the STEM meme?
i went into this field because i thought it was cool, undergrad was free, and graduate school pays me a lot

>>70915280
Going with a life choice based on practicality rather than passion.

>>70915231
>conservative
>critical theory
>aestheticism
>con
>ser
>va
>tive
Sounds like you don't know what you did your own dissertation on if you don't see the irony/or hypocrisy in this.

people with 100-120 IQ (see: /mu/, leftists) are the worst

Fact of the matter is, if you think Critical Theory is good then you know nothing about art.

But I'm sure you all have written research on the Darmstadt school too...

>>70915311
but i like it a lot.
desu i like algebra (abstract) more, but i literally can't eat if i study it

>>70915251
>all things that react to other things are postmodern

are you retarded? what are you even talking about. postmodernism relied on cynicism and a meta, ironic outlook. new sincerity endorses a genuine, earnest expression of emotion. it's not postmodern, it's just reacting to it

>>70914165
>>70914892
too bad because 99% of contemporary art and a fairly large amount of music adheres to post-structuralist thought.

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>>70915325
>Low-effort thought promotes political conservatism
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22427384

>Verbal intelligence is correlated with socially and economically liberal beliefs
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289614000373

>A meta-analysis of 63 studies showed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1088868313497266

>Conservatism and cognitive ability are negatively correlated.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289609000051

>>70915313
Explain?

>>70911116
They're too busy leeching off the government and whining about minorities

>>70915347
Well? Have you written research for one of the best music uni's in the country?>>70915348
If math's your passion pursue it. I'm talking more about engineers.

>>70915362
>he unironically uses the term "conservatism"
105 IQ absolute max

Yo we hit the bump limit. Can someone make a new thread?

>>70915388
>engineers
brainlets, every one.
i haven't written music "research" but i have coauthored a paper on quantum computing

Migrate here: >>70909774

>>70915388
>being an engineer isn't a passion
i'm an agricultural engineer
i love what i do, i help society and i have cash.
i love math too, that's why i have a math degree too.
now fuck off with your "muh engineering is soulless" meme.

>>70915353
Ironic doesnt mean what you think it does and what you have done is identified prevalent themes in postmodernism, not requirements. David Foster Wallace did not understand postmodernism or irony, his "insights" are all based off of American TV and dont consider the higher ideas feeding into it. Anything that defines itself as a reaction to postmodernism is really just a strand of postmodernism reacting against another strand. Anything that, like New Sincerity, includes "going back to ____" as a core tenet is 100% inarguably postmodern

>>70915489
is this bait? holy shit you're an idiot

>>70915512
t. Bandanadrone who thinks irony has something to do with being cool because le tennis man said so

>>70915536
>le tennis man
i want reddiots to leave

>>70915536
you fundamentally don't understand what irony is, look it up.

>Anything that defines itself as a reaction to postmodernism is really just a strand of postmodernism

yeah that makes a ton of sense. about as much sense as
>anything that defines itself as a reaction to modernism is really just a strand of modernism

if you can't see how fucking stupid you sound i'm not going to spell it out for you

>>70915580
>i ran out of arguments because my only knowledge of postmodernism comes from one david foster wallace essay i read about how the tv is ironic maaaan

>>70915097
>worst people on earth
If it weren't for recent developments my uncle wouldn't have been allowed back in the country for 3 months. He has a job, a house, and a car here and he was at risk of losing most if not all of that.

I'm not against taking precautions for the safety of this country but the EO was hastily implemented with some terrible results too

>>70915609
why did you put that in meme arrows?
it's obvious you ran out of arguments a long time ago

>>70915609
>doesn't respond to my actual post refuting his dumbass argument
see >>70915590, idiot

>>70915590
Postmodernism is founded on reaction and subversion. You can argue that the application of postmodernism to itself is called metamodernism, but the philosophy of this so called new artistic era would be no different from the old. modernism was a reaction to actual real world events you idiot, postmodernism is art reacting to art. Reacting to some art that was already a reaction to some other art doesnt mean you have suddenly made a new paradigm does it you fucking moron. Read some actual postmodern theory instead of dickhead foster Wallace you fucking pseud.

If i freeze an icecube it makes new cod solid water cerity hahaha a completely new and authentic thing, completely distinct from ice.

>>70915700
>postmodernism is art reacting to art
all art reacts to other art, what are you talking about. it's called context. no art exists in a vacuum.

>Reacting to some art that was already a reaction to some other art doesnt mean you have suddenly made a new paradigm does it you fucking moron

yes it does you literal retard, what are you even talking about?

>Postmodernism is founded on reaction and subversion
no, that's all art. postmodernism is founded on irony and cynicism and detachment. you can have reaction to things that don't have those qualities present.

i'd do some more reading on postmodern philosophy before you try to correct people on an imageboard you brainlet

>>70915744
nice samefag to top it all off

Slightly more sentimental take on the current literary trends = entirely new art movement completely divorced next step in art history

>>70915787
Haha pretty weird how these other art movements all coincided with major historical events such as the black death or the first world war. All art reacts to other art though!! Definitely no other big source of inspiration for centuries of artists that i am too retarded to think of!! Postmodernism just means having weird plot structures and sarcastic characters haha!! Brainlets btfo!!

>>70915840
>Haha pretty weird how these other art movements all coincided with major historical events such as the black death or the first world war.
[citation needed]

the rest of your post is just retarded i don't even get what you're arguing anymore. somehow you think art has to react to real world events to be worthy of having a label? and every single movement that is contained within the art world isn't real?

>>70911182
that's exactly what a conservative who doesnt understand art would say

>>70911372
>You are very obviously using "progressive" out of the political context. True conservatives are all for progress as long as it aids the free market.
Wrong.
You're the one using 'progressive' in a political context.
To conserve is to keep things the way they are. How can art progress and evolve if it's being 'conserved?'

>>70911372
>as long as it aids the free market.
nah, that's classical liberalism

>>70915891
I dont think you understand that modernism and postmodernism are umbrella terms for all art produced during a particular set of circumstances, postmodernism's circumstances are specifically the raised awareness of modernism as an entity and the reaction to it. New Sincerity is a part of postmodernism, not sure why thats so hard to understand. Do you think minimalism is somehow distinct from modernism too?

>>70915961
Conservativism is about conserving tradition not stopping innovation

>>70915992
no, because minimalism is a facet of modernism. new sincerity is distinctly different from postmodernism and doesn't share the same traits. you can call it post-postmodernism if you want, but it's not postmodernism

>>70914309
>Prager "University"
wow, you're really wanting these replies, aren't ya?

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>all the people in this thread acting like the only two political positions to take are liberalism and conservatism