look at the music discussion on /b/ in this thread >>>/b/712707712

Go outside

all of those albums are garbage

That's because they are still enchanted by discovering new music.

>>69231065
it's weird to watch on a place that's not /mu/, a single thread where people are mostly not shitting on each other

/b/ here
stay here fags

>>69231040
>benji
>garbage
I think you need an aerosol can.

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which one of you jumped into that thread to shit on their taste

>Friendo is on /b/
Irony much?

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/mu/ represents the biggest faggots on this website.

When someone is "into" music, they are typically already a faggot. But when you get really snobby and contrarian about music, you transcend into a completely higher level of faggotry. People can be snobby about movies and literature and still be cool but being a cunt about music is the true mark of a permavirgin hipster shitstain.

>>69231477
I like to think of myself as a cos/mu/politan.

>>69231605
filtered

>>69231592
le ms paint strawman

>>69231628
Sure you did. See you tomorrow.

>>69231592
Ass ravaged dadrocker detected, keep on bopping your head to radiohead and pink floyd you tasteless pleb

>>69231636
Do you ever read a newspaper cartoon strip and go "man, this is so one sided"?

>>69231685
>radiohead
>dadrock

Once again /mu/ is contradicting itself.

Also, what's wrong with """"""dad""""""rock? Are you implying that dads have bad taste in music? Is it because it was popular when your dad was a lad and that somehow makes it bad? Or are you saying that being a dad is a bad thing to be sad about?

>>69231732
>getting this mad
nobody actually cares if you listen to dadrock
nice rhyme tho

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>>69231025
>/mu/ is actually the most underage board on this site
wew, why should we listen to /b/ in the first place?

>>69231785
Because they're right in this situation.

Which one of you snowflakes is pushing this ts is better than zeppelin bull?

>>69231592
>le virgin strawman

>>69231592
what's wrong with that guy's head it's freaking me out seriously

>>69231802
>>69231664

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>>69231732
>mfw people like dadrock

It's literally 2016!

>>69231848
no it isn't

>>69231802
Explain how it's "bull."

>>69231875
Lmao bait harder

>>69231883
It's not "bait." Not everyone who disagrees with you is doing so because they want you to become upset- In fact, almost nobody in the world does this ! Believing otherwise is extremely juvenile, self-centered, and indicative of poor emotional development.

>tfw dadrock fans are literally 12 year old /b/tards

>>69231895
So you truly believe that taylor is better than zeppelin?

>>69231592
>People can be snobby about movies and literature and still be cool but being a cunt about music is the true mark of a permavirgin hipster shitstain.
thats how i know this post is bait, this makes literally no sense

>>69231919
led zeppelin are garbage and so is tswift, at least tswift is catchy

>>69231895
> !

back to Reddít, my dude.

>start a thread about how no one is being a shit head in a thread
>come back an hour later to a thread full of shitheads

>>69231965
tswift isn't catchy at all.

>>69231971
what do you really expect from the worst board on 4chan?

this board is garbage.

>>69231919
Yes, I haven't been on the Led Zeppelin bandwagon since I was a little kid. I even had a T-shirt.

>>69231968
non sequitur
...or not, I really don't know if my posting style is replicated elsewhere. I know of ~2 people who type similarly to me.

>>69231968
that guy has been here for way longer that you newfag

>>69231848
>image.png
fitting for these shitposts

>>69231802
ts isn't better than led zep because ts sucks shit

that's not saying much though because led zep is also ridiculously overrated. They're not bad they're just not that great either. Tons of groups that followed them are way better.

>>69231981
It's pretty good compared to shit like /v/, /pol/, /tv/ and /b/

>>69231974
Incorrect. I'm listening to "Blank Space" in my head as I type.

>>69231984
Don't remind me.

>>69231983
>french phrase
>...

Jesus not even facebook roleplay posts are this bad. How fucking old are you?

First unty now this

I know just about all tripfags are autistic but the worst of the bunch seems to be most attracted to /mu/

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>>69231983
maybe they should fuck off too.

nice blog btw.

>>69232010
I always hate this board and wonder why I'm here.

Then I go back to other boards I used to (shit)post on and the reasons why I left them are somehow even worse.

At least the people here are just cunts, I can deal with cunts. I can only deal with so many fucking retards though.

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>>69232010
it's worse than all of them

except /pol/, but /pol/ isn't truly apart of this website.

>>69231984
>defending tripfags

put your trip back on my man

this is sad.

tripfags are cancer

>>69232010
>/pol/
>not the best board

And the tripfag dramas this board alone has generated is worse than whatever the fuck /b/ and /r9k/ could even dream about

>>69232021
>french phrase
Bait or retarded?
In any case this is a 18+ board

>>69231983
It's not particularly hard to mimic. In fact, I'm doing it right now ! Taylor Swift should have stuck with country. Anyone who believes otherwise is a worthless poptimist who's music taste never progressed past listening to top 40s when they were 12 years old.

>>69231025
elitism is what makes 4chan and particularly /mu/ good.

>>69232006
1. Start typing like an adult.
2. You're wrong.

>>69232021
>french phrase
Go find your eighth grade English teacher and apologize for not listening in class. Now.
>First unty
Stop being so new.

>>69232029
>>69232051
>>69232048
Don't be upset that your (lack of) conversational skills restrict you to discussing people instead of music. You are welcome to discuss the _musical_ topics in this thread. Or you could continue sticking to your true area of interest: me.

>>69232073
Well yeah, exactly ! I'm simply stating that I don't go to Reddit, so I wouldn't know what the posting norms are there.

I didn't start listening to music until I was ~15, so...

>>69232096
>makes
*used to make

>>69232060
/pol/ is just Reddit now

they literally invited Reddit users to join them a few months ago

real /pol/ is dead

most of those albums are trash LOL

>>69232048
Have you seen /v/ and /tv/?
At least there is some sort of music discussion that goes on here.
/b/ is edgy 14 year olds and is fucking awful, worst board besides /pol/

>>69232060
/pol/ is ebola in board form.

>>69232062
Then is it ancient Hebrew?

>>69232099
>restrict
*restrict(s)

>>69232109
please kill yourself.

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>>69232099 (You)

>>69232104
I know that. With trump being prez and all /pol/ got too much exposure.

It's just ebin leddit memers who worship the kek the meme god now. This alt right bullshit never had a place real pol

>>69232109
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)
A non sequitur (Latin for "it does not follow"), in formal logic, is an invalid argument – an argument whose conclusion does not follow from its premises.

>>69232099
kill yourself, my dude

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>>69232099
(You)

>>69232121
>>69232127
Again: You are welcome to discuss the _musical_ topics in this thread. Or you could continue sticking to your true area of interest: me.

>>69232117
My point still stands monsieur. This is like saying cliché isn't a french word.

>>69231974
Clearly you never had "Trouble" drilled into your head playing on repeat for days to the point where it drove you insane.

>69232134 (You)
ironic, considering you're off-topic posting right now.

>>69232133
See >>69232134

I'll start us off with something easy-peasy.

Taylor Swift makes better music than Led Zeppelin did.

Compare:

https://youtu.be/e-ORhEE9VVg
Concise, better hook, better singing, better melodies, clear lyrical development and vocal /melodic layering, fun to sing along with, doesn't take the subject matter too seriously,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pPvNqOb6RA
Long-winded, nonsensical lyrics, melodramatic vocals, cheesy flutes, overly-long buildup laden with boring cymbal rides with an underwhelming payoff, eyeroll-worthy guitar solo.

Taylor Swift > Led Zeppelin

>>69232139
"non" isn't exclusively French. See >>69232126

>>69232143
I don't listen to garbage music on the radio.

>>69232152
>Taylor Swift > Led Zeppelin

no.

bait harder.

>>69232099
anonymity is also what makes 4chan good, tripnigger.

>>69232151
1. Learn how to use the quote system.
2. I'm (one of the minority) posting about music. I can't help if anonymous posters are obsessed with me and refuse to discuss music on the music board.

>>69232158
Then what radio music do you listen to ?

>>69232164
See >>69231895
>Not everyone who disagrees with you is doing so because they want you to become upset- In fact, almost nobody in the world does this !

>>69232173
Demonstrably false.

>>69232173
I've seen a tripfag say everyone needs tripcodes before.

protip: tripfags are all redditors who don't understand the point of the very site they're posting on.

>>69232152
Just what the fuck do you think you know about music? You keep on spamming this "_music_" meme but clearly you know jack about music when the best you describe about StH's solo is "eye-ball worthy" instead of taking notice of the techniques and chords Jimmy Page used. I bet my ass that you can't even tell the most basic shits like pentatonic scale progression and blue-note scales without googling. Just stop being so goddamn snobby about music my dude

>>69231025
daaamn full of heavy metal retards. /b/ is the only truly cringe party.

>>69232158
Do you really have a choice when you're at work or out shopping somewhere or in a restaurant and they're playing that shit on the sound system?

>>69232183
>Demonstrably false

if you literally don't like anonymity, literally fuck off to reddít

like really.

have some goddamn respect for this website. must be hard because you're clearly a underage preteen.

Jesus Christ.

>>69232073
>Taylor Swift should have stuck with country. Anyone who believes otherwise is a worthless poptimist who's music taste never progressed past listening to top 40s when they were 12 years old

This above all else.

>>69232183 (You)
>Learn how to use the quote system.

I'm making fun of (You) and your bait, autist.

>>69231389
Sun kill moon is fucking shite.

>>69232183
elitism without anonymity leads to tribalism and off-topic meta discussion

>>69231732
>Once again /mu/ is contradicting itself.
/mu/ is not a hive mind.

Based Friendo btfoing all the newfags and crossposters

>>69232237
I want you to deeply think and ponder to yourself about what you've just typed

>>69232206
Yes, all radio is trash.

It's a bad way to listen to music because it shoves shit down your throat that you don't want and has ads.

get sound canceling headphones and eat at place that respect that people go eat lunch to eat, not listen to music

>>69232143
Shake It Off is pretty damned obnoxious too, but Trouble is the worst. That song is not only astoundingly annoying, but it stays with you for the next week.

>>69232252
>It's a bad way to listen to music because it shoves shit down your throat that you don't want

Not necessarily true. If you're listening to a station that has music you're particularly interested in, no problem. When you're out in a store and Natasha Bedingfield--"Unwritten" starts playing, you want to reach for the barf bag.

>>69232152
Nonsensical lyrics is not a valid criticism of music. And "concise" is a bizzare positive too. I'd rather listen to a 10 minute well paced song.

Vocal style is entirely subjective, I'm not a huge fan of that style either but he's doing a good job at singing.

"Boring cymbal rides" is a laughable statement when literally any pop lacks interesting drum patterns. A requirement of being "radio friendly" is a simple beat and radio monopolies have only intensified the effect of this.

>eye-roll worthy solo
Oh, you're one of those morons who thinks guitar solos are le cringe.
They aren't just displays of raw technical talent, even though sometimes they can be. A good solo has more emotion behind it than any "easy to sing along to" pop song. Anyone who's ever even touched an instrument knows that everyone sounds different playing the same instrument, and those unique qualities grant every guitarist and solo a unique sound. I'm neither a Jimmy Page fan nor a Led Zeppelin fan, but Page is absolutely not a weak soloist by any means. He is outclassed by later guitarists, but people getting better as time goes on is a give in.

>>69232267
My mom couldn't stand it when this one thrift store in my town would be playing extreme punk and metal over the sound system, because the employees there were of the green hair/nose ring variety.

>>69232245
put your trip back on, dude

>>69232139
non sequitur CLEARLY comes from latin you utter fucking retard.

>>69232281
Jimmy Page never had overly long, self-indulgent solos. One of my favorite examples of an overly long, self-indulgent solo is Ted Nugent--Stranglehold.

>>69232192
>the point
That's odd, I don't see anything about that in http://www.4chan.org/rules#mu

What I do see is "Discuss music, artists, and instruments here."

Nothing about using tripcodes for whatever spook reasoning you've got bouncing around in your head.

>>69232194
>Just what the fuck do you think you know about music?
Enough to steer the conversation back on-topic, apparently.
>clearly you know jack about music when the best you describe about StH's solo is "eye-ball worthy" instead of taking notice of the techniques and chords Jimmy Page used.
I'm still learning theory and my exercise / training books on tonal analysis will likely not arrive for weeks. This isn't relevant to this conversation however, as music theory is only one facet to understanding and discussing music and is ultimately only useful in describing in more detail the mechanics of what you are enjoying.

Nobody is being "snobby" about music (besides you); you're just acting insecure. But please, continue obsessing about me. We both know you find me more interesting than the music right now.

>>69232209
That's not what "demonstrably" means. Also, I'm 21 and have likely been browsing 4chan for longer than you have.

>>69232227
>bait
There's that word again. See >>69231895
> Not everyone who disagrees with you is doing so because they want you to become upset- In fact, almost nobody in the world does this !

>>69232232
You mean like /v/ and /pol/ ? I don't see it.

>>69232301
That's pretty much what I was saying actually, Page was a really strong soloist who knew how to keep it appropriate for the song.

>>69232281
Right...radio music has to be under 5:00, catchy, and fun-oriented. Generally, people don't want to hear depressing/angry music while shopping at Macy's.

>>69232314
>>69232301
"I've always disliked songs that are nothing but a vehicle for an extended length solo the guitarist wrote. Judas Priest have always made it policy to keep our solos short, concise, and appropriate for the song."

-- Glenn Tipton

>>69232152
The beauty of music is that it can convey emotions not possible in other art forms. An over-produced, obnoxiously-slick bubblegum pop radio single that was probably written by a team of 40 people simply lacks the heart and passion of a song written by a pair of people who had one singular vision when creating their music.

>better hook, better singing, better melodies
This is subjective and discarded. Also, better hook, better singing, better melodies /= better song

>eyeroll-worthy guitar solo
As a guitarist for 13 years, I will say that while the solo clearly has moments where Jimmy Page clearly was just fucking around, the vast majority shows a technical proficiency and expertise that makes it exhilarating. But you clearly know nothing about music and are just trying to critique it from the perspective of an outsider. This makes your opinion valueless.

>Using the word cheesy as a critique
This just shows you are unable to understand the context of the musical scene within which the song was written. Why don't you delete your trip and educate yourself. Such flutes as heard on Stairway are also prominent in other songs written in the same genre around the same period of time. Listen to any Jethro Tull song for further evidence of this.

I can't believe you got me to defend Led Zeppelin but there you go. Now would you please delete your trip or exit back to /b/ where you can shitpost among your kind.

>>69232332
>I can't believe you got me to defend Led Zeppelin
same desu

>>69232327
Uh huh. I can't think of too many Priest songs with extended length solos other than Dreamer Deceiver which was very early.

>>69232303
>This isn't relevant to the topic

You got too sleak there maxie waxie but you can't just the move the goalpost like that.

It is fucking relevant when from seeing the most absolute least amount of details and vague ass reasoning like "eye-ball worthy" was used to describe how zeppelin is worse than ts. It shows that you don't really know about what you're talking about. You act like it's so goddamn obvious of how StH is a bad song when you fail to explain your stance without anything more than just couple of vague adjectives that all really mean the same thing.

And what good are music theory for when you're not even making any music? :^)

>>69232327
I always hate that shit. When the whole song feels like a build up to the solo and is pretty weak overall, and then it gets to the solo and it's some guitarwank bullshit of "look how fast I can shred!"

>>69232332
>An over-produced, obnoxiously-slick bubblegum pop radio single that was probably written by a team of 40 people simply lacks the heart and passion of a song

Top 40 is product and nothing more than that. It's background noise you listen to while shopping at Macy's.

>>69232375
I wish I could be seeing the Macy's Thanksgiving's parade right now

>>69232367
>>69232327
Check out Aerosmith - "Bone to Bone (Coney Island Whitefish Boy)". That's the _classic_ example of a song that's literally just a wrapper for a le badass guitar solo.

>>69232252
>all radio is trash.
/mu/ - middle school

>>69232281
>Nonsensical lyrics is not a valid criticism of music.
It certainly is.
FRIENDO TIP: Any criticism of music which is based in the content of the piece and your reaction to it is a valid criticism.

>And "concise" is a bizzare positive too. I'd rather listen to a 10 minute well paced song.
I'd rather listen to something which uses ~3 minutes of musical ideas over 3 minutes, but hey, that's just me. That's not to imply that Stairway to Heaven has only 3 minutes of musical ideas (although I suspect I'll be able to argue this once I make my way through my books). Stairway to Heaven has terrible pacing which I already mentioned.

>Vocal style is entirely subjective
This is true and also irrelevant.
FRIENDO TIP: All musical judgements are intrinsically subjective.

>"Boring cymbal rides" is a laughable statement
Not especially. If I can complete an instrumental section in my head before I finish the section (when the instrumentals are supposedly the crux of the music), chances are that I will find it boring more often than I find it exhilarating. Of course, this is more open to debate, as you mentioned that much popular music uses very simple drum beats. This leads me to another point: music can have multiple purposes. When I identify Taylor Swift being better than Led Zeppelin, I identify Taylor Swift as being better at meeting the ideal I ascribe to her music than the separate ideal I ascribe to Led Zeppelin.

1/2

>>69232395
>It certainly is.
You would have a heart attack if you listened to TMR.

Or anything that is even slightly unconventional or genre breaking for that matter.

>>69232281
2/2

>you're one of those morons who thinks guitar solos are le cringe.
Not at all ! Some of my favorite music has guitar solos. See: Mercury Rev and Faust.
> A good solo has more emotion behind it
I'll stop you right there. No sound has "emotion behind it." At least, not in the sense that one emotion can universally be extracted from that sound. While the _musician_ might be experiencing an emotion that they are trying to communicate, you will never know the exact nuances of that emotional state as you cannot read the mind of the person expressing it. What you identify as "emotion behind" something can be just as validly dismissed as "fake" or "wank" by someone else. Remember when I said "Any criticism of music which is based in the content of the piece and your reaction to it is a valid criticism ?" Emotions are not based _in_ content, but _on_ content. Arguing that something is more or less "emotional" is never going to persuade anyone, ever.

>>69232332
>The beauty of music is that it can convey emotions not possible in other art forms. An over-produced, obnoxiously-slick bubblegum pop radio single that was probably written by a team of 40 people simply lacks the heart and passion of a song written by a pair of people who had one singular vision when creating their music.

Especially zeitgeist. I mean, a Led Zeppelin or Bee Gees song captures the essence of the 1970s in a way a book about the decade can't.

>>69232426
>nonsensical lyrics
>no sound has emotion behind it

You just fucking blew it all up man. You just fucking ended yourself.

You just fucking proved that you absolutely know nothing about music as whole. Actually, you know even less about top 40 normies and rap niggers.

>>69232426
>No sound has "emotion behind it"
This is so unbelievably wrong I don't even know where to begin.

If you've never felt what was very clearly the intended emotion of a piece of music you either listen to garbage with no emotion or you're a robot with no soul.

Not all music is "emotional," there is some extremely good music that doesn't heavily convey emotions.

But there is a lot that does too.

Frankie Teardrop has a feeling of paranoia and desperation

Watching the Sailboats with My Dad has a sense of peace and calm but also a tinge of nostalgia and longing.

Stay Here has an intense feeling of anger and masculinity.

If you honestly can't hear it and still claim music had no inherent emotion, you've completely shit the bed on this.

Also
>FRIENDO TIP:
Why are tripfags such conceited assholes

>>69232287
I don't drop trip, and I don't know how you could possibly think I can type fast enough to post anonymously and under a tripcode at the same time.

>>69232332
>it can convey emotions not possible in other art forms.
This is patently wrong for the reasons I have already stated, so I am going to skip over this section.

>This is subjective and discarded.
Again, _ALL_ musical judgements are subjective. Just because there are not universal standards of good or bad (such things are impossible anyways) does not mean you cannot discuss them. This is philosophy 101.
>Also, better hook, better singing, better melodies /= better song.
1. You're thinking of "!="
2. They certainly can ! However, reducing my argument that Swift > Zeppelin based on many supports to only three supports is essentially a straw man argument.

>shows a technical proficiency and expertise that makes it exhilarating.
Technical expertise at an instrument is an outdated criteria for enjoying music. There are simply too many people for me to care who is the best twing-twang-flanger out there. I would rather appreciate the art they produce than the way in which they produce the art.

>you clearly know nothing about music and are just trying to critique it from the perspective of an outsider.
That depends on the context. If we're discussing theory, sure, there are plenty of people who know more about me. If we're discussing technical proficiency at playing an instrument, sure, I grew up completely isolated from any musical tradition. If we're discussing music history and philosophy, I would wager that I know more than ~95% of /mu/. This isn't from any extraordinary effort on my part, but the relative laziness of /mu/. How many of you actually read musical texts ? I wonder.

>This makes your opinion valueless.
Sigh.

>>69232513
> If we're discussing music history and philosophy, I would wager that I know more than ~95% of /mu/.
lol

>>69232332
>This just shows you are unable to understand the context of the musical scene within which the song was written.
No, I understand full well. I'm just not critiquing the music as if I were LARP'ing as a teenager from the time in which it was released. I exist as and when I exist, no more or less. This concept shouldn't be so difficult for you. Am I supposed to think that the Notre Dame school was amazing because they were developing techniques more advanced than their contemporaries ? No, I enjoy Pérotin because I enjoy the music. Not everything has to be reduced to chronological relativism.

>Listen to any Jethro Tull song for further evidence of this.
I'll listen to Jethro Tull again once I am overcome with the irresistible urge to revisit my 15 year old favorites. That hasn't happened yet.

>I can't believe you got me to defend Led Zeppelin but there you go.
You didn't do it very well, but was that really so hard ? Isn't this much nicer than obsessing about me and my personality traits / posting styles ?

>Now would you please delete your trip
I see no compelling reason to.

>exit back to /b/
No thank you, /b/ hasn't been entertaining since 2006.

>>69232513
Musical text means jack when you don't fucking UNDERSTAND or APPRECIATE or RESPECT music from its fundamentals you hopeless bag of shit

You just fucking admitted that you know literally nothing about music. Even a goddamn nigger off from a random rundown gang in a coke high knows more about music than you ever fucking will.

You said sound has no fucking emotion that it has no meaning to it, than what about music without lyrics? The very existance of drummer boys at war blows the fuck out of what you've said. It's either you're fucking sociopathic or like we all know at this point is just spewing bullshit

>>69232574
>No thank you, /b/ hasn't been entertaining since 2006

/b/ used to be fun when I first started on 4chan in 2010. Now it's eh.

>>69232303
>I'm 21
>>69232574
>No thank you, /b/ hasn't been entertaining since 2006.

>>69232361
>you can't just the move the goalpost like that.
That's not what moving the goalposts means. The focus of the conversation wasn't music theory until you attempted to make it so. I merely nudged us back on-topic. If we're using the correct terminology, you're the one who attempted to move the goalposts. Funny how that works, isn't it ?

>what good are music theory for when you're not even making any music?
1. I do make music, it just isn't very good (to me).
2. Understanding the mechanics of what I enjoy is something I ascribe value to. I'm a curious person.
3. Music theory isn't necessary for making music. At all.

>:^)
:o)

>>69232414
I adore Trout Mask Replica.
>anything that is even slightly unconventional or genre breaking for that matter.
Much of my favorite music is what you would consider unconventional.

>>69232472
>You just fucking blew it all up man. You just fucking ended yourself.
non sequitur
FRIENDO TIP: lyrical analysis != extrapolating emotions from sounds

>niggers
>>>/b/
>>>/pol/

>>69232510
>This is so unbelievably wrong
No, it really isn't. This is extremely basic. This isn't even high school level reasoning. Why is this so difficult for you ?

> there is some extremely good music that doesn't heavily convey emotions.
To you, maybe. That's not how emotions work. That's not how subjectivity works. That's not how psychology works. Holy Hannah, what went wrong with your life that you don't comprehend basic subjectivity ?

>>69232538
It's a vague statement with almost no way to verify, but I stand by it.

>>69232597
Settle down.
>UNDERSTAND or APPRECIATE or RESPECT music from its fundamentals you hopeless bag of shit
You appear to misunderstand what music theory is. Music theory is a tool to describe _how_ things work, and nothing else. There are plenty of other tools with which to discuss and appreciate music- contextually, emotionally, viscerally, academically, conceptually- the list goes on. 1/2

>>69232513
>Just because there are not universal standards of good or bad (such things are impossible anyways) does not mean you cannot discuss them.

The statement "Taylor Swift > Led Zeppelin" (see >>69232152
) is not a discussion, nor part of a discussion. It is framed in your original statement as am absolute fact. I am all for discussing the value of Blank Space vs. Stairway. However, my objective was to dismantle the way you presented "Taylor Swift > Led Zeppelin" as though that were fact. Glad to see you have conceded defeat on this subject and agree with me now. Perhaps now you will be open to discussion.

>You're thinking of "!="
I meant what I wrote. Please, don't try to make an argument out of the fact that I don't share your exact writing style. I likely grew up in a different place than you and was educated to write in a different way than you.Get over it.

>However, reducing my argument that Swift > Zeppelin based on many supports to only three supports is essentially a straw man argument.
1. The logical fallacy you are thinking of is called cherry-picking, not straw man.
2. I was simply dismantling the idea that you presented in your original statement, in which you phrased your statement to imply it was an absolute fact that Swift >Zeppelin. By saying better hook, better singing, better melodies does not necessarily make the song better, I prove those points as invalid support for your thesis and your statement of Swift > Zeppelin becomes shakier, as it is proposed on less evidence.

1/2

>>69232513
2/2

>Technical expertise at an instrument is an outdated criteria for enjoying music.
1, Did you mean criterion?
2. Certainly not ! it is amusing to me that you accuse /mu/ of laziness yet are too lazy yourself to keep up with modern musicians who are accomplishing incredible feats of skill. Just because you personally have a lethargic attitude towards appreciation of musical technique does not make it outdated point of judgment for the rest of the music listening community.

> If we're discussing theory, sure, there are plenty of people who know more about me. If we're discussing technical proficiency at playing an instrument, sure, I grew up completely isolated from any musical tradition.
So glad we agree !

>If we're discussing music history and philosophy, I would wager that I know more than ~95% of /mu/.

A hefty claim with absolutely zero evidence !

ANON TIP: As written by Marcello Truzzi, "an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."

>Sigh
Meaningless rhetoric. Your personal feelings about our communication has no value to me.

>>69232597
2/2 There are plenty of instances in which music theory isn't necessary (or even helpful) in a discussion- just like this one ! Not everything needs to be analyzed through a specific perspective. Mature people understand this.

>You said sound has no fucking emotion
Yes, I did. A sound does not have a mind and therefore does not have intrinsic emotions. The same is true for something like "pretense," where calling an album / track / sound "pretentious" is equally silly. Does that make more sense ? There are many complimentary ways to explain this fact.

>what about music without lyrics
What about it ?

>>69232610
GIGA PUDDI was over six years ago. Let that sink in.

>>69232646
You read that correctly.

>>69232709
>is not a discussion, nor part of a discussion.
Demonstrably false.

>It is framed in your original statement as am absolute fact.
This is quite literally the first thing I was taught to do in writing composition 101. State opinion -> support opinion -> defend / rectify supports as necessary -> tackle opposing supports. Not everyone has to say "I think / I believe / to me" for mutual intelligibility to kick in. Every adult understands that we are discussing opinions.

> However, my objective was to dismantle the way you presented "Taylor Swift > Led Zeppelin" as though that were fact.
I'm not sure whether to laugh or feel bad for you.

>Glad to see you have conceded defeat on this subject and agree with me now. Perhaps now you will be open to discussion.
...and what fantasy world do you live in ? You were the only one pretending I was arguing that my opinions are absolute Facts. Honestly, argue with me, not your hallucinations of me.

>I meant what I wrote. Please, don't try to make an argument out of the fact that I don't share your exact writing style. I likely grew up in a different place than you and was educated to write in a different way than you.Get over it.
Settle down.

>1. The logical fallacy you are thinking of is called cherry-picking, not straw man.
No, it isn't. It's a straw man because the position attacked (and postured as the entirety of my argument) was not the totality / crux of my actual argument presented. Cherry picking would be if you were to present me with ambiguous evidence and I were to selectively choose pieces that confirmed my position while ignoring those which did not.

>2. I was simply dismantling the idea that you presented in your original statement, in which you phrased your statement to imply it was an absolute fact...
This is another straw man.
FRIENDO TIP: It is impossible for "x > y" (when discussing subjective experiences) to be anything OTHER than subjective. I have never claimed otherwise.

>>69232746
>1, Did you mean criterion?
Yes ! My writing certainly isn't perfect, especially when I'm attempting to respond to backed-up comments multiple minutes behind my own. Was the post intelligible aside from that ?

>2. Certainly not !
Incorrect !
>it is amusing to me that you accuse /mu/ of laziness yet are too lazy yourself to keep up with modern musicians who are accomplishing incredible feats of skill
Between school, work, socializing, reading, and listening to the world's greatest music spanning ~1000 years, I don't have much time that I care to spend listening to something which doesn't impress me from a relatively small fragment of time. I spend time on that which interests me, just like you and every other human with spare time and the internet. Isn't that funny ?
> for the rest of the music listening community.
Would you please start responding to what I've actually said instead of what you wish that I had said ? It's tedious and benefits neither of us.

>A hefty claim with absolutely zero evidence !
See >>69232694
>It's a vague statement with almost no way to verify, but I stand by it.
I'm confident that I understand the boundaries of my own abilities.

>Meaningless rhetoric.
You're thinking of "ineffectual rhetoric." Meaningless would mean that the rhetoric is incoherent to you, not that you don't care about the meaning behind the rhetoric.

>>69232251
I have and I still stand by it.

There are multiple generals that hate each other and have a fair bit of infighting themselves.

While there is still such a thing as /mu/core it is becoming less accepted and more people equate it with being new/pleb/stan.

"Meme" artists are both loved and hated to the point that having any opinion could be considered "falling for the meme."

There is enough variety of opinion that a regular user sees ot with out difficulty. It may seem that we all share similar opinions but that's often due to the fact that a large number of us actively listen to music that either is more challenging or features different production methods than artists listened to by non /mu/tants.

At this point I'm just waiting for Anonymous to realize that he's been arguing in my favor this entire time.

>>69232855
> It is impossible for "x > y" (when discussing subjective experiences) to be anything OTHER than subjective.

Demonstrably false. 2 > 1

Lets address the crux of you argument, shall we?

The statement made in your original post was: "Taylor Swift makes better music than Led Zeppelin did."

You claim that this thesis is perfectly acceptable, but I recommend you go back and do some reading on facts, opinions, and arguable thesis statements because you have proven yourself to be woefully miseducated in that department.

ANON TIP: Here is an example of a thesis statement that includes an opinion but would not lend itself to developing an academic argument: "Johnny Depp is a better actor than Matt Damon." Another: "Spaghetti is the best kind of pasta." One more: "Taylor Swift makes better music than Led Zeppelin did."

From https://depts.washington.edu/pswrite/thesisstmt.html

"Thesis statements are not merely opinion statements.

Statement of opinion:"Congressional elections are simply the result of who has the most money." This statement does make a claim, but in this format, it is too much of an opinion and not enough of an argument.

Similarly, "The United Nations is incapable of preventing war" is closer to a thesis statement than the factual statement above because it raises a point that is debatable. But in this format, it doesn't offer the reader much information; it sounds like the author is simply stating a viewpoint that may or may not be substantiated by evidence. "

This is quite embarrassing for you Friendo ! I usually enjoy your antics but it seems today you have finally dug yourself into a hole with your ridiculous (and demonstrably false) statements !

1/2

>>69233025
it's a straw man because the position attacked (and postured as the entirety of my argument) was not the totality / crux of my actual argument presented

I was challenging your "evidence," which is indeed a method of challenging an argument. I did not say that because your statement of better hook, better singing, better melodies your entire (already faulty) thesis was incorrect, but merely that that support was incorrect and therefore your thesis is weaker tan how you originally presented it. But I suppose this is besides the point since we have already proven your original thesis was poorly constructed.

2

>>69233025
>Demonstrably false. 2 > 1
non sequitur. For the sake of not making this any more convoluted, "2>1" is not a discussion of a subjective experience (if you consider math "objective" which is problematic in itself but I really don't want to get into that) so the example is nonsensical in this context. Do you really not understand what I was saying ? Is this concept really so foreign to you ?

>ANON TIP: Here is an example of a thesis statement that includes an opinion but would not lend itself to developing an academic argument
FRIENDO TIP: Nobody is posturing this as an "academic argument."

If I wanted to have a formal debate, I would do so in an academic environment- not the music board of an esoteric otaku website.

> it sounds like the author is simply stating a viewpoint that may or may not be substantiated by evidence
Evidence such as the subjective experiences which support the subjective evaluation of a someone who is judging the art ? Fancy that.

>>69233092
Wow, that was bad, even for you ! I accept your loss with grace, Friendo. Please always remember me as the anon that bested you !

>>69233062
>I was challenging your "evidence," which is indeed a method of challenging an argument.
Let me break this down, because this has no doubt been confusing for you.

In >>69232332 , the statement "better hook, better singing, better melodies /= better song" is considered a straw man (in essence) because I identified "better song" as being a result of more supports than just the ones you were attempting to confront.

To put it another way, if I were to say "dogs are better than cats because dogs are cuter, more affectionate, and have wet noses" and you were to say "wet noses don't make a dog better than a cat" you would be (implicitly) saying that refuting that premise is the same as refuting all of my premises, which in itself is a misrepresentation as the argument "dogs > cats" is reliant on multiple supports working in tandem as opposed to being wholly dependent on any individual support.

Is that easier for you ?

>>69232513
>I know more about music history than 95% of people on /mu/
>Doesn't have a degree in music and has never taken a music history class

Holy shit is it hard being the smartest person in the world

>>69233116
I don't understand how you could possibly think I've conceded anything when none of my points have been refuted and I have lost no rhetorical ground regardless of your attempts to distract me.

Do anonymous posters ever get tired of losing arguments to me ?

>>69233177
>Doesn't have a degree
This means absolutely nothing to me ; I know people who are more knowledgeable about music than anyone I've ever met / read and they don't have degrees in music.

>has never taken a music history class
I'm in one right now, actually. It does a nice job filling in my gaps re: western art music.

>is it hard being the smartest person in the world
I wouldn't know.

>>69233145
It's unbecoming to be a sore loser, Friendo. Your statement has been proven (and admitted by yourself) to be faulty. Try harder next time.

>>69233200
>I don't understand how you could possibly think I've conceded anything when none of my points have been refuted and I have lost no rhetorical ground regardless of your attempts to distract me. Do anonymous posters ever get tired of losing arguments to me ?

Settle down

>Inb4 I am perfectly composed

>>69233200
>I know people who are more knowledgeable about music than anyone I've ever met
This thought made sense in my head. The point is that a degree doesn't really mean anything insofar as not having one does not prevent you from knowing a certain amount about music as opposed to having one means you must necessarily know a certain amount as well as have gone to school specifically for that purpose.

3:00 AM caught up with me in the span of one post.

>>69233201
>Your statement has been proven (and admitted by yourself) to be faulty.
If you continue to pretend that it happened, perhaps it will become true !

>>69233226
I have nothing to settle besides confusion which is no doubt linked to my lack of sleep.

>>69232694
>Music theory is a tool describe how things work, nothing else

What does it feel like to know absolutely nothing about music yet feel like you know everything about it? Have you ever taken a theory or ear training class? How about a piano class? Have you been performing in large ensembles for years? Taken private lessons from a much more talented musician than yourself? Ever received any kind of instruction from ANYONE about how to go about being a music-maker? Or do you just sit on your computer all day watching cheap YouTube tutorials about I-IV-V chord progressions and jack off your tiny little poptimist cock about it cause you know slightly more about music than the average pleb. God. Fuck. You got me rustled.

>>69233245
>What does it feel like to know absolutely nothing about music yet feel like you know everything about it?
I wouldn't know.

>Have you ever taken a theory or ear training class? How about a piano class? Have you been performing in large ensembles for years? Taken private lessons from a much more talented musician than yourself? Ever received any kind of instruction from ANYONE about how to go about being a music-maker? Or do you just sit on your computer all day watching cheap YouTube tutorials about I-IV-V chord progressions and jack off your tiny little poptimist cock about it cause you know slightly more about music than the average pleb. God. Fuck. You got me rustled.
Settle down.

>>69233259
Didnt actually respond to my statements because it's obvious to me and everyone in this thread that in actuality you know nothing about music so now you're trying to save face for your trip by playing aloof because you've lost every argument you've engaged yourself in here tonight. This is why we shouldn't have tripfags. You are the exact reason.

>>69233236
"Your thesis is illogically composed"

>Yeah... b-b-but it's not an ACADEMIC argument! T-This is 4chan not an academic environment!


>implying this wasn't the hardest Friendo has ever floundered
>Implying this wasn't the most paper-thin and irrelevant defense Friendo could have possibly put up in a hopeless attempt to maintain his ego
>Implying this didn't prove Friendo couldn't own up to it when he was clearly checkmated
>Implying this wasn't the biggest BTFO Friendo ever received

See you around amigo

>>69233280
don't worry buddy, he's always been like this. Consider this your introduction to everyone's least favorite /b/ crossposting tripfag. You'll learn to troll him in due time.

>>69233280
This.
End trips! They lead anons on asinine arguements with the only intent of boosting their own ego and they need a name attatched to it so others will remember them. It's not good for discussion because threads devolve into pseudo-academic debates.

This isn't speech/rhetoric/law school it's fucking /mu/ where we talk about music/memes/wifus/bullshit not how well some anon or Tripfag made a point.

>>69233280
I didn't respond to your tantrum because I don't feel the need to validate your tantrum. You quoted a single part of my post and then began ranting about how I'm not a classically trained musician. This is odd to me, because of the classically trained musicians I talk to, only one of them actually understands music theory past the ability to just read sheet music to play notes, even though the others have been playing their respective instruments for years.

>you've lost every argument you've engaged yourself in here tonight.
Cite a single one of them.
FRIENDO TIP: you can't do it.

>>69233293
>"Your thesis is illogically composed"
Funny, I don't see this statement anywhere else in the thread. Are we perhaps shifting goalposts ? Here's a more accurate representation:
FRIENDO: (assertion + supports)
ANON: those supports are subjective
FRIENDO: that is true and also irrelevant
ANON: this thesis wouldn't fly in an academic environment
FRIENDO: we're not in an academic environment
ANON: check and mate, mister !
FRIENDO: what

You'd do better to save your greentexting crusades for when I actually make a mistake.

>>69233319
> /b/ crossposting tripfag
What ?

>>69233360
>It's not good for discussion because threads devolve into pseudo-academic debates.
You now remember that this thread was literally about /b/ before I came in and changed the subject to music. You know, the board topic.

>not how well some anon or Tripfag made a point.
This wouldn't be an issue if people didn't try to dogpile me because I've said something which should be completely innocuous anywhere else.

>>69233361
Dude. No one likes you. You're not changing anyone's mind by picking apart every single argument down to its most basic (pointless) elements. No one is coming out of this thread thinking anything positive about you or your opinions, mostly because of the pretentious way you've been presenting them. Everyone here hates you. You should leave, drop your trip, or end your own life. I'm sure someone as charming as you knows the awkward feeling of walking into a room and realizing no one really wants you to be there. That is what's taking place right now; you tried to make your arguments, instead you came off like an annoying faggot. Consider suicide.

>>69233419
>Dude. No one likes you.
Demonstrably false.

>You're not changing anyone's mind
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink."

>down to its most basic (pointless) elements.
>most basic (pointless)
>basic (pointless)
This is nonsensical.

>No one is coming out of this thread thinking anything positive about you or your opinions
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink."

>mostly because of the pretentious way you've been presenting them.
You are using the word "pretentious" in a pretentious manner. Nothing I have said should be controversial whatsoever besides my original premise (Taylor Swift > Led Zeppelin) and my claim that I probably know more about music history and philosophy than 95% of /mu/ (which becomes less and less controversial when you actually look at the traffic of /mu/ and the average posts anywhere other than /classical/ and possibly one of the esoteric generals). If I were to pretend that I knew more about music theory or playing techniques than I did, that would be pretentious. Admitting my limitations is the opposite of pretentious. At least make an effort.

> Everyone here hates you.
Demonstrably false.

>You should leave, drop your trip, or end your own life. I'm sure someone as charming as you knows the awkward feeling of walking into a room and realizing no one really wants you to be there. That is what's taking place right now; you tried to make your arguments, instead you came off like an annoying faggot. Consider suicide.
Settle down, temper tantrums are unbecoming.

I don't know much about music theory but the greatest chord progression of all times is i-iv-vii-iii

if you disagree, we can settle that outside

I find it amusing that everyone has been losing their collective minds about non-errors when I've made a glaringly obvious _actual_ error in the thread that nobody picked up on.

>>69231025
unwritten rule of 4chan #6 : discussing something offtopic on a board is always more constructive than discussing something on its respective board

>the thread on /b/ is dead
>tripfaggot has been here for 3 hours arguing with some other stupid nig
Stop posting.

Tripcodes should be for coordination, not identity. I don't even know why they allow you to have a name with a trip. They remove visible sage, but keep this shit?

>it's a "tripfag has shit opinions" episode
Why do you people still give them (You)s?

>>69233643
>>69233772
And why do you faggots replied to this thread? It could die and disappear finally.

Just stop whining.

>>69233465
>>>69233419
>>Dude. No one likes you.
>Demonstrably false.
Kek, he said it again!

Friendo, please expand your vocabulary. This is obviously your favorite word and it's over use is comical.

>>69233797
Sorry for the bump. but I only made one reply (ironic that I bitched about removing visible sage). But that's enough to get the shitwheel rolling again.

>>69233843
>Demonstrably false

Demonstrably untrue has a nicer ring innit?

>>69233843
I felt necessary to display my disgust.

>>69233898
It would definitely fit better with his uncomfortably posh writing style.

>>69233843
>please expand your vocabulary
Find me a more efficient phrase which communicates the point and I'll consider it. It's pretty much automatic at this point when I see a post that is, you know, demonstrably false. I also enjoy my little repetitions, micro and macro.

>>69233933
>posh
Not at all. I type the words as they come into my head with minimal editing. My formal English education is very poor (probably because I was high and phoning it in all throughout middle school), which is why my sentence structures are frequently erratic. I do make an effort to make my posts somewhat coherent, though.

>>69233929
For the benefit of a doubt, there is no way we can prove this is him by the. Nor me.

>>69233978
I won't spoonfeed you quality words. I suggested a change and it's on you to make it or not give a fuck what some anon says.

For as "erratic" as your sentences are, you type just like all the kids back in high school that tried to sound smart.

File: Screenshot_20161123-065152.png (256KB, 1440x2560px) Image search: [Google]

256KB, 1440x2560px

>>69233979
I feel like I missed something here. Can you shed some light on this?

>>69234087
>I won't spoonfeed you quality words.
I have the best words, and as I said, I enjoy my little repetitions. I'm not terribly interested in changing just because you request it.

>For as "erratic" as your sentences are,
I'm referring to the structure of my sentences and grammatical errors.
>you type just like all the kids back in high school that tried to sound smart.
Yeah, I doubt that.

>>69234131
>we can prove this is him by the
That was a typo. But I thought "I felt necessary to display my disgust." was actually tripcoder dropping his trip (by the lack of a name) but it was you displaying disgust of repetitive rhetoric (I think that's the word).

reddit birthing tripfaggots made them worse than anyone could possibly imagine

>>69234189
But that wasn't my post, it was someone else responding to me.

>>69232301
Legendary song though; Nugent recorded the solo in one take.

>>69234189
>repetitive rhetoric
"Phrase" works better because I've used the phrase "Demonstrably false" ~100 times on /mu/. Rhetoric would make more sense if you were referring to my style of speaking / arguing, which is mostly centered around logos.

>>69234197
>>>/b/
>>>/v/

>>69234189
>>69234213
>>69234131
Gee, it's almost as if all of this confusion could have been avoided somehow... perhaps with a sort of identifying device...

>>69234179
>Yeah, I doubt that.
Why would I lie? Your posts read like your talking down to people.

>>69234179
>I have the best words
Fucking lost. Hearty chuckle on my end.

>>69234224
I don't know if you're memeing, but in case you're not, can you actually post Taylor Swift songs that you think are actually interesting?
Because that one you posted in this thread sounded like derivative garbage, and seeing the fascination this board has with her there must be something else that isn't bland top40 shit.

>>69234248
>Why would I lie?
I'm not necessarily accusing you of lying so much as questioning your ability to discern "people who are trying to sound smart" from "people who naturally type in a way I find odd."
>Your posts read like your talking down to people.
In what ways specifically ? I'm not trying to argue, this is purely for my own understanding. My job revolves around communicating _without_ doing this, and generally I have no trouble with it outside of written communication.

>>69234301
>derivative garbage
Derivative of...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xg3vE8Ie_E
https://youtu.be/IdneKLhsWOQ

>>69234390
Your underlining to show emphasis makes it seem like you don't expect the reader to understand.