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What is Nagai's fucking problem?
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last thread
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>>14614638
The scene towards the end was pretty vital towards the story and characterisation played heavily into it, calling it technically rape I can understand but purely from the context you can't call it fetishised. To determine that we'd need to post a page and break it down.
>>14614656
Okay HERE we have something to work with, so let's see.
You said his work screamed 'RAPE FETISHIST.' Devilman Lady is certainly a story full of rape, but I don't know if I'd say that Nagai intended for people to get off on it.
Let's look at what you posted. First, obviously, it's rape. Nobody can deny that.
But what's it for? And how is it executed?
I don't exactly remember the context of that particular page, but I think that that guy is a teacher who is also a demon and exploiting his student, the girl, by getting her into prostitution and getting into a very unhealthy and dominating relationship with her. This particular arc feels pretty in line with what Devilman Lady is all about, the evil nature of people hiding under a domesticated surface act. For my first question, what's it for? I'd say that the scene does serve a purpose. And that leads into the next question of execution.
With Devilman Lady Nagai set out to tell a story about the dark side of human nature with a particular focus on gender this time around after Devilman. With that in mind it seems practically inevitable that the issue of rape would come up, maybe not as much as it did but I think that considering the story he set out to tell we should just accept that there was going to be rape.
What determines if he's a 'fetishist' as you said is all in the execution. Look at the page you posted. What do you feel when you look at that? I personally don't get off on that at all. It's an act of violence more than anything else. There's enough explicitly shown to shock and get the point across and also possibly titillate, but I'd say that the page's purpose is to serve the narrative first.
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>>14614716
I guess you could be an ass and say "this is fanservice for vore fetishists"
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one thread was enough, diebuster. give it a rest, this shit isn't even mecha.
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>>14614730
But my point is that more downplayed rape scenes like this don't show things like the dick slamming into the vagina like >>14614663 does. And as a final nail Nagai's straight up porn comics also had rape in them.
That said I don't think this contradiction of "rape is horrible" in writing and yet rape looking fetishistic art makes something like Jack bad just as it doesn't make Berserk bad. Or just as it doesn't make Gundam when it portrays war as hellish in writing but cool and marketable visually. It's a very common contradiction in fiction.
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>>14614735
/m/ has extended to things like general Dynamic Pro discussion for eons though. The Godzilla thread isn't /m/ either but it's still a way better place to talk about kaiju than /tv/ where people will say the effects are bad and probably drop a cuck meme or two.
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>>14614735
>one thread was enough
No it wasn't. We were still trying to determine the issue at hand when it ended. Were we supposed to drop the issue where it stood?
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>>14614743
Stop trying to rationalize your off topic shitposting. Stop spamming off topic threads.
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>>14614744
>There's enough explicitly shown to shock and get the point across and also possibly titillate
You already admitted this though. I never said the rape was just random and had no plot purpose in any Nagai manga, just that it could be fetishistic in execution.
Plot-wise I don't feel the rape in say Evil Town is even unrealistic at all. There have been many examples of groupthink-fueled mass-rapings by "normal, sane" people in the real world. Nagai was actually pretty good at portraying people going insane during a crisis; it was exaggerated, but based in real human emotion.
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>>14614755
I'm not the one who made the thread, I rarely ever start threads with Toei anime art.
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>>14614755
I started it :^)
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>>14614757
underrated page
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>>14614737
>But my point is that more downplayed rape scenes like this don't show things like the dick slamming into the vagina like >>14614663 (Cross-thread) does
Yes, but one could also say that they're weaker for it. This is just me going off of this one page so I can't say for sure, maybe the buildup is all very dramatic, but just going page by page 'EEEEEEEEEK!' 'forgive me...' doesn't quite hit as hard as >>14614663 (Cross-thread).
I understand the case you're making for sure, but I think that there are degrees to this thing and a wide variety of issues that you need to consider. I can understand not approving of Nagai's representations of rape, but I don't know if I agree with the thinking that they make him a 'fetishist.'
To take the issue further, Quentin Tarantino, for a well known example, displays incredibly explicit violence in all of his works. Is he a violence fetishist? Should we approve of his work? Would his work still be able to have the same impact that it has had, shock and beyond, if it weren't explicit.
Believe it or not I actually think that Hollywood had the right idea when they made their content producers accountable to a code of standards, but I think that most people don't understand WHY they did it or WHY the issue of content in our media is so important.
I think that the idea of censoring or banning certain media because it has X and X offends somebody personally is stupid and wrong and not what the code was about. The code existed to hold American culture up to a certain standard. Culture is what makes a society and if you aren't careful about what ideas you're broadcasting out into the world you create the potential for your culture to degenerate or descend into nihilism.
Why I don't disapprove of Nagai is because though his work contains many vulgar and explicit elements, there's generally heart, thought and humanity at the core of each of them, in my opinion more than enough to elevate him above 'fetishism' and 'trash.'
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>>14614783
Sorry about going way the hell off topic there but this is an issue I care quite a bit about, as you probably already noticed. Back on topic.
>>14614757
If your problem is purely in the execution then I think that the post you should be replying to is >>14614728. With an answer to that I could devote my textwall generating resolution to something more relevant.
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>>14614783
Tarantino is a good example of fetishistic execution actually. Tons of people portray feet in their works but he's the one that comes off as a foot fetishist.
Also see
>And as a final nail Nagai's straight up porn comics also had rape in them.
>"Believe it or not I actually think that Hollywood had the right idea when they made their content producers accountable to a code of standards, but I think that most people don't understand WHY they did it or WHY the issue of content in our media is so important.
>I think that the idea of censoring or banning certain media because it has X and X offends somebody personally is stupid and wrong and not what the code was about. The code existed to hold American culture up to a certain standard. Culture is what makes a society and if you aren't careful about what ideas you're broadcasting out into the world you create the potential for your culture to degenerate or descend into nihilism."
Iron pilled as fuck brah
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I'm the "Devilman Lady is good because rape" guy.
What's wrong with Nagai's fetish?
Is rape bad? Sure, but is rape also good? Sure it is!
The rapist is having the time of his life. In his mind, rape is good.
Hence, you have rape in Lady which both condones and encourages it.
It's truly a work of art.
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>>14614783
>The code existed to hold American culture up to a certain standard.
The culture of terrorising and destroying other countries, with violence.
Why do Americans keep pretending that they're more civil? Let's just admit that we're all devil beasts hungry for rape.
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>>14614805
I like rape if it's same-sex rape and the victim starts enjoying it and it turns into consensual sex eventually. I claim no moral superiority to those that like other forms of rape. I was never, ever butthurt about Nagai's work being "immoral" (which is kinda funny since I grew up in a very Christian family but I guess becoming an internet edgelord early on in my teens helped)
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>>14614796
A person would have to be blind and deaf not to realise that Tarantino loves himself some feet, but I think his relationship with violence is much more interesting.
In a North Korean documentary on American culture that I watched once, I don't remember exactly how I found it and oddly enough I didn't consciously remember it when writing the last past, they brought up Tarantino as an example of what's wrong with America. They had nothing bad personally to say about the guy, but they raised the question of how exactly a culture gets to the point where it produces someone like him. He puts a woman having her eye graphically plucked out of her face into his work and presents it as pure entertainment. Is the idea of that existing not kind of fucked up if you think about it? It really says a lot about cultural sensibilities. A concept which I think is being greatly neglected across most of the world right now.
>iron pilled as fuck brah
Is that seen as a good thing or am I being memed on?
>>14614810
I'm not American.
And I'd say that foreign policy isn't really a matter of culture since I consider most politicians to be so detached from the society's their responsible for that they're not only virtually foreign, they're often so detached that they're virtually inhuman.
Also that is a dank gif.
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>>14614810
He sounds like a /pol/ guy who idealizes that period as the "golden years" of America before "cultural marxism" poisoned everything. I read all sorts of radical political opinions whether far left or far right and what he said sounds very alt-right, I could see it coming from a Ramzpaul video.
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>>14614819
I believe the documentary that was supposedly north korean made actually isn't.
However, it acted as a social commentary on the state of american culture.
>foreign policy isn't really a matter of culture
People voted IN for the Iraq War.
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>>14614819
Memed on >>14614825 but I was just taking a shot in the dark; I could very well be wrong.
I do think 'murder porn' culture is interesting to discuss to be fair, as much as people shit on the show because 'libertarians bad' that one South Park episode was pretty spot on.
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>>14614825
>the "golden years" of America
which is an obvious myth.
People are just nostalgic and yearn for years that never existed.
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call me crazy but I'm pretty sure gory things happening to chicks isn't an america-only thing
wasnt it basically half the horror films of italy for ages
you must know your idea is weak when you have to surround it by lies
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>>14614825
>He sounds like a /pol/ guy who idealizes that period as the "golden years" of America before "cultural marxism" poisoned everything
First I don't browse /pol/
Secondly if America was so great before, how did it get to the state that it's in now?
Thirdly despite searching several times with a reasonable amount of commitment I still have no idea what 'cultural marxism' means. It sounds like a generic buzzword to rally the troops behind more than a valid idea. The boogeyman that I want to kill more than anything in the world is 'globalisation,' that's the real slow and silent killer.
>what he said sounds very alt-right
what you've said sounds very upside-down, back-to-front, that doesn't make it any more or less valid
>I could see it coming from a Ramzpaul video
That guy scares the shit out of me and represents my biggest fear of what's going to happen to America aside from the course that it's running now. There are a lot of valid criticisms to be made against the current state of the American government, but the impression that I get from that guy is that he's absolutely 100% genuinely 'white people are objectively better' racist and he uses the position of criticising retarded fringe elements from the far left to validate his own evil and insidious opinions.
Fear Ramzpaul, that man is evil.
>>14614843
>call me crazy but I'm pretty sure gory things happening to chicks isn't an america-only thing
wasnt it basically half the horror films of italy for ages
Right you are fampire. Lucio Fulci is one of my favourite horror movie directors. If we were to discuss the Italian exploitation film industry I could raise a lot of questions, but I imagine everyone ITT is already sick of me.
And I don't see how the existence of explicit trash outside of America invalidates anything that's already been written.
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>>14614849
Okay, sorry for misrepresenting you then, it's just that the word 'degenerate' being used unironically threw me off.
>Fear Ramzpaul, that man is evil.
The best way to deal with him and /pol/ kids is to not take them seriously or draw attention to them. Saying shit like this just makes them look more 'edgy' and desirable and gives him new fans. He's a weak, frail old man who would get his skull bashed in if we lived in the "ideal, red pilled, might makes right" society he speaks of. And he's pandering to a loud minority of edgy internet kids who just discovered politics.
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>>14614870
I was unsure about that word 'degenerate' because I knew it'd get that reaction, but I used it in a slightly different context to how it's usually thrown around on this site.
What people are used to is 'degenerate' is in 'that guy's a degenerate' or 'we are living in a degenerate time.' How I used it was 'the state of the country is beginning to degenerate.' I could have used the word 'decay' in its place if I wanted to be a bit more careful but I don't think it quite sounds like proper English.
The key difference is that the two variations on 'degenerate' are pronounced differently. Degener-at is the one loaded with edgy connotations while degener-8 is the word that hasn't been tainted yet.
>The best way to deal with him and /pol/ kids is to not take them seriously or draw attention to them
I know, but since it was brought up I felt the need to address it. /m/ is different to the rest of the site, or at least I like to think it is. Giant robots are too niche a subject to be considered a worthy political battleground by keyboard warriors, so I think it's safe to discuss controversial stuff here and not invite trouble.
Of course I won't take the issue any further either though. It's not on topic and it's not pleasant either.
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>>14614890
>Giant robots are too niche a subject to be considered a worthy political battleground by keyboard warriors,
A lot of alt-right anime fans from what I've noticed are big fans of LoGH. I've never seen any that are into stuff like Dynamic Pro/Ishinomori/Tezuka manga though, possibly because they all have really overtly left-leaning messages.
>001 and 008 are blanda upp-promoting good goys, dropped
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>>14614914
Oh and Getter Robo Go even had that guy that perfectly captured alt-righters right down to marrying a Japanese woman at the end (Ramzpaul and those like him have huge yellow fever because asian women are "traditional and subservient" haha)
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>>14614914
>>14614922
I feel responsible for throwing this discussion off the rails so here's this.
What do people generally think of the Amon Devilman spinoff? I just started reading it recently and while I haven't gone far enough to really judge what it's about or where it's getting at the change in art style is really throwing me. The weird, less stylised, overly organic look given to pretty much everything kind of makes me uncomfortable but since this is an edgy bizarro-universe where the reals don't apply I guess that that's kind of the point.
Amon's insect-like appearance is neat for something different but I'm too attached to the traditional Devilman look not to miss it. And Satan looks far less androgynous now and that bugs me too. Less interesting to look at despite the extra attention to detail.
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>>14614932
>Read it a year or two ago.
>Remember giving a shit more about the Amon side than the bit about the prehistoric Harpies.
Most of the enjoyment I felt came primarily from the art used within the story itself, as it was just gorgeous throughout most of it for me.
Though I haven't read it in quite a while so my memory is fuzzy on the details, especially pertaining to the bit about Akira facing his own inner turmoil and utterly demolishing Amon once and for all. I do rather enjoy the ending theme for the OVA if that's anything to add on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnG1D2Oz9Lk
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>>14614932
I remember not liking the art style and losing interest as a result. I'd rather watch the Amon OVA as I think it looks more appealing visualy but I dunno if it's anything like the manga.
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Speaking of spin-offs:
Unintentionally funny Hitler story aside, I genuinely enjoyed Shin Devilman and found it to be a good spin-off. I was pretty surprised when I checked user ratings for it and saw that Devilman fans fucking hate it; I guess it doesn't fit logically into canon but I felt that it worked really well thematically (aside from, once again, the Hitler story). The other stories gave off this vibe of "humanity doesn't need demonic possession to be evil and scary" which I felt was very fitting for Devilman. It also continued the original Devilman's humanization of demons. I honestly wish it got more credit than Devilman Lady did.
The only other person on Earth who didn't find it awful garbage is Glenn Danzig but that's good enough for me.
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>>14614954
I thought that it was mostly harmless if a bit shallow but then I thought the ending was really well executed so I'd say I like it overall.
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>>14614954
Danzig also liked Mao Dante enough to reference it, which according to Google I'm the first person to have pointed out
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>>14614965
>>14614962
I thought it just worked as an extension of Devilman's original message, and some of the art was really fun.
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>>14614954
>>14614965
There any articles or interviews where Danzig talks about Devilman?
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>>14614971
Mao Dante didn't work nearly as well as a serious story as Devilman did, but as Nagai described it, it wasn't meant to be a serious story (just as a lot of Nagai's work isn't); it was supposed to make the reader feel like a kaiju stomping around fucking shit up, and in that regard it's a good escapist fun manga with all sorts of crazy hilarious over the top shit going on.
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>>14614975
Google "Danzig Devilman". He has a fucking Devilman tramp stamp and published some (horribly colored by hacks) chapters of Shin Devilman.
It was fucking surreal to find out since I used to joke around with a friend about how Danzig would've loved Devilman if he read it and then it turns out not only did he love the Devilman manga stuff he also knew about obscure-in-the-west shit like Mao Dante >>14614980
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>>14614990
But I guess it fits since the guy made some of my favorite music and Nagai made some of my favorite manga
I'm just surprised no one made any AMVs with the subject given how well-known the connection is
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>"Big, beautiful color!"
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>>14614922
>shitting on Schwarz for stereotyping people
>right before stereotyping Sho as le submissive japanese waifu for le racist /pol/fag
Spotted the faux liberal cuck who's just trying to brown-nose other libcucks.
Daily reminder that Sho was the man in their relationship, and any libcuck who criticizes Schwarz is implicitly enforcing gender stereotypes by not accepting Sho as a strong independent woman who chose to start a relationship with Schwarz of her own volition.
She also fought in the war to save humanity, but I guess that doesn't matter either.
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>>14614954
I also like Shin Devilman, must be because I am a big Fate and history fan that I always like new takes on historical characters. And yes, I like even the Hitler story.
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I legit own the hitler one and the one about the no-arm statue.
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>>14614954
>>14614962
>>14615100
Shin Devilman isn't even by Go Nagai apparently.
It's written by his brother, Yasutaka.
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What do you guys think of Black Lion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghmzfUwJk4g
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>>14615295
IIRC a Toei anime writer was a co-writer or something. Regardless I feel that whoever wrote it whether it was Nagai together with another guy or another guy entirely "got" the message of Devilman.
>>14615381
The WORST ANIME XD ever reputation is obnoxious as it is for 90% of the time. That said the OVA's okay and the manga looks better. The best part of the OVA is when the animation gets super rubbery & cartoony.
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>>14615381
>>14615771
Oh also the Black Lion manga did the "cyborg with face half torn-off" thing before Terminator just how Jack did all the post-Mad Max cliches before Mad Max
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>>14615771
>The WORST ANIME XD
Actually Black Lion is more like THE WORST/BEST ANIME XD
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>>14615785
Having a smug "knowing, camp-aware connoisseur" reaction over a shonen manga adaptation having shit boys find cool in it like cyborg alien ninjas is like doing the same over Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
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>>14614730
Considering some drawings Tezuka's daughter found locked up, it probably is. He just mouse porn and all kinds of weird shit. Same with the retarded shit with him turning that one girl into a nugget in Ode to Kirihito.
Tezuka's females are the most worthless characters and they tend to die once they've served their role as a plot device. Compare that to the execution in Susanoo, which is soul crashing, and it's laughable.
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>>14614954
The ending scene is fucking fantastic.
>>14615771
The Black Lion manga is really cool and batshit insane.
Also, Devilman Lady is empowering since it's Lady doing most of the raping ;^)
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>>14615861
>Considering some drawings Tezuka's daughter found locked up, it probably is.
Thinking that was some 'dark secret unearthed' is instant proof that you know very little about Tezuka. One of them was literally concept art for one of his movies. Tezuka had a transformation fetish, not a vore one, and was open about it (he literally said he finds it "erotic in an interview).
Why do you faggots have to try to make this Tezuka vs. Nagai? Both did good and bad things.
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>>14615910
No need to get so mad. All I said was he had some creepy fetishes. Also, he totally had a vote fetish. Like that edgy scene in Ode where a baby is eaten by a snake.
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>>14615974
>he totally had a vote fetish
Suffrage is totally sexy.
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>>14615974
>Tezuka's females are the most worthless characters and they tend to die once they've served their role as a plot device. Compare that to the execution in Susanoo, which is soul crashing, and it's laughable.
This is just a silly over-generalization that reads like you're trying to start an internet slap fight. Tezuka created Sapphire, Nagai created Honey, both are iconic influential characters.
>Also, he totally had a vote fetish. Like that edgy scene in Ode where a baby is eaten by a snake.
lol
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>>14614735
Superflat was a mistake.
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>>14615981
Ignoring his shoujo work most of them DO get killed off as soon as they've served their purpose. It's something that annoyed the fuck out of me when I read most of his translated works. Good on the Phoenix anime for fixing it.
Also, yeah, the baby scene made me laugh too.
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>>14615910
>Why do you faggots have to try to make this Tezuka vs. Nagai?
weeks ago we had a miyazaki vs tomino thread, so people are just trying to find something to rile up shitstormsand let's be honest, the only way faggots can make discussions here or in any other board in 4chan is via shitflinging
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>It's a diebuster thread
A reminder of his autism:
http://www.awopodcast.com/2011/01/anime-world-order-show-91-breaking-the-rrrrruuule.html
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>>14614730
No, that's only bad art.
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>>14615861
Susanoo afterwards is pretty shitty, though. And then there's the dumb plot twist later.
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>>14617044
who's diebuster?
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>>14617593
namefag
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>>14617600
Is he here?
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>>14617602
yeah
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>>14617606
where?
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>>14617619
I get it
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>>14617044
Diebuster is the result of what happens when one becomes a Gainax fag who then gets interested in old school shit, to prove how awesome Gainax is, for referencing them. Never go full Gainax, not now, or never.
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Why is Go Nagai shit mecha anyway?
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>>14617969
because you need to go back to tumblr
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>>14617352
your mom is a dumb plot twist
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>>14615774
None of those were original ideas. You know, before Hollywood started playing science fiction, there was something called books.
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>>14614715
The animation in the beginning of Majokko Tickle is beyond bad. I think someone said they switched to a better animation company later on.
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>>14620332
They got Sunrise later on.
Initially it was being animated by a bunch of unknown studios.
Toei Company was the producer, not Toei Animation apparently.
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>>14620332
That's Go Nagai's character design. Her eyes look completely different in the way they're drawn.
This was later changed in the later episodes.
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>>14614715
Nagai's "Problem: is that he is horny, eternally so. before he was born he was looking at boobs. when he was a sperm he was grinning swiming up his mothers vagoo, he likely had a similar grin when he was being birthed. his first words were boobs and ass. his first crayon drawing was of people having sex. as people age and their sexuality develops their fetishes get more bizarre and obscene, But for Nagai he had years worth of sexual thoughts before he could even hit puberty. During his teenage phase he needed an outlet of his endless desire, and thus his career as a manga artist began.
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>>14621780
Nobody can stop the Nipplés!
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>>14622832
I just now realized he had tanlines.
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>Tfw you found a cool pic of late 80s Metallica w Kirk wearing a Devilman shirt but your HD died
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>>14615047
not that anon, but why do you have to type "cuck" in every sentences ? aren't you supposed to be in /pol/ sucking Trump's dick ?
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>>14614755
Who the fuck made you god? You dont decide the rules. Godzilla and Go Nagai have always been allowed on /m/
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>>14625472
Listen I'm /m/ AS FUCK and this shit is not /m/
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>>14614990Metallica are fans too. Probably via Danzig. You realize the skull he wore on his stage outfit when he was in misfits, that was Captain Harlocks skull design
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>>14625476
Are you made of steel
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>>14625476
You sound like a child.
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>>14614735
Neither is tokushit.
So fuck off kike
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>>14615974
>>Proven wrong
>>No need to get so mad
Every time
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>>14626081
You didn't prove me wrong, vore fetishist.
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>>14627076
No need to get so mad. It's okay that you lost the argument. Do you need to take a moment in your corner to calm down?
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>>14614761
What's the big deal with having rape in anime when they have extreme violence too.
Both are atrocious crimes and it's all fiction.
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>>14628713
Furry is mad other people are disgusted at his fetishes
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