What is Nagai's fucking problem?

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Seriously, I want to know what his fucking problem is.

>>14593885
>pottery.jpg
You have no idea what you're talking about, eh?

>>14593885
Devilman G is not by Nagai.

With that said, there's a similar quote in Devilman vs Getter Robo.

>>14593885

Trying to cover up his lack of writing skills with shock value. He knows his work is shit, so that's the way he found to get noticed.

>>14594017
Devilman G is the one by the guy who did Cynthia the Mission, right?

>>14595950
yea

>>14595925
Devilman G isn't written by Nagai, but nice try Pablo

>>14595950
>Devilman G is the one by the guy who did Cynthia the Mission, right?
This explains a lot.

>>14596010
>>14595950
>>bladedcuntkick.jpg

ahh, the memories

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>>14595989
>>14596010
>>14596148
Cynthia the Mission was fun

>>14595925

/thread. Exactly what I felt about Nagai.

I know Miura cited Nagai as one of his inspiration of creating Berserk manga, but when Miura did it, it did have the "right feel" into it, it wasnt just for a mere shock value but was done purposely to fit into the story.

Another thing that irks me about Nagai is that he came across as too preachy , and it was very noticeable if you read his manga.

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>>14593885
I dunno, you tell me.

>>14596328
Devilman is a far better written manga than the neverending clusterfuck that is berserk

>>14596328
Also,

>it wasn't just for a mere shock value but was done purposely to fit into the story.
Which Nagai manga was that?

It's not Devilman or Violence Jack that's for sure.

You sound like one of those trigger fags that claim klk is deep fanservice. Full of shit as always.

>>14596402
The only thing that is a clusterfuck about Berserk is its release.

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Nobody can stop the Nipplés!

>>14596459

Guts spent ten years boating with his JRPG fag band

>>14593885
Devilman is flawed at its core. The whole selling point of the series is its edginess, back in 70s it was jaw-dropping but nowadays it just comes off as silly and forced.

>>14596931

The only thing silly about Devilman now is how they summon Amon by going to a dark underground lair filled with hippie ravers and then get shitfaced.

The rest of it holds up pretty well even today.

>>14596976
Not even close--the art blows, characters are paper thin, and the plot was stolen from a 13yo.
There's a reason mazinger is more popular and considered to have aged better.

>>14597007
>There's a reason mazinger is more popular

It had a TV show whereas Devilman can't be shown on TV due to its content. And if you want to pull the "it's popular" bullshit, Devilman is still highly praised to this day.

>the art blows

It's old as fuck and yet the art still manages to convey power and emotion just fine.

>characters are paper thin

It's not a long story. Also >expecting complex characters from a Go Nagai story

>the plot was stolen from a 13yo

Could be applied to 99% of anime.

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>>14596931
>>14597007
Pablo you need to go fuck yourself.

>>14597013
>taking the bait that seriously

Fucking hell. What is the one thing you learnt about Nagai? You don't argue with censors, and these kind of people. You go straight for the kill.

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>>14596448
Go Nagai is the most progressive liberal manga artist.

Yet sjws still complain.

>>14597007
MY FATHER DIED

>writes stories about STRONK female chars
>lefties call him a misogynist
>fights against censorship multiple times, more recently against the Tokyo bill by leading the charge
>lefties complain that he's spreading child porn
Uncle Go is the hero we don't deserve.

I can already see that the west is getting increasingly involved in nip shit.

He warned us but we didn't listen. Enjoy your censored liberally conservative Chinese cartoons for the rest of eternity now, thanks Obama.

>>14593885

Nagai's "problem" is what's so special about him. His works are unrestrained id.

>>14597145
>sjws still complain
They do?
This is the first I've heard of it.

>>14597738
This! You just don´t often get this raw imagination put on page.

>>14596404

> Devilman
> Violence Jack

but thats what I was reffering to. He did all the gore scenes just for the shock value so hipster edgy fanboy like you could cream on your pants glorifying him when the storyline was full of unnecessary preachiness and shock value with little substance.

>>14597950
you need to go back to tumblr

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>>14593885
i fapped multiple times to this

thanks op

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>>14597961

>Tumblr boogeyman

And people say that anti-SJWs aren't becoming cancer

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>>14597988
>anti-SJWs
OK

you really need to get the fuck out of /m/ before Nagai triggers anymore of your kind.

>>14593885
>people on /m/ try with all their might to prove nagai isn't sexist or a bad artist
It's okay to like uncle Nagai, guys. Just don't try to fucking deny such things.

>>14596976
>The only thing silly about Devilman now is how they summon Amon by going to a dark underground lair filled with hippie ravers and then get shitfaced.
That part is awesome. Drug-addicted murder-hippies listening to rock and roll and cosuming berserker marhuiana. There are even niggers in the same room right there. It's like straight out of a republican's mouth.

>>14598171
>nagai isn't sexist
He's not?

I'd like to see some evidence.

>bad artist
Which is a matter of opinion.

>>14598171
You need to be less salty, Matsumotofag

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>>14597013
You're right, tim buckley conveys the power and emotion amazingly in Devilman.
>>14597140
>it's bait if I disagree

>>14598171

People can like whatever they want as long as they can admit it's shit. Nagai is shit and I like him.

>>14598204

But Nagai isn't shit. He's trashy and lurid. But there is value in his work.

>>14598202

That's a bad example. The early chapters are indeed not very well drawn.

>>14598211
You're getting really desperate here. It's okay anon, we all like awful things.

>>14598216

This. It's no crime to have bad taste. No one can do anything to you. Just live your life with your bad taste and call it a day.

>>14598204
That's what I meant anon, glad we came to agreement. I like my fair share of garbage including nagai's works, but nagai fags are in perpetual denial.

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I don't get how people can say that Nagai isn't a misogynist. I mean seriously, are you fucking blind? Check out any of his works and you'll be able to tell instantly. He's a dirty pervert with no shame. Even had bear fucking in that one manga he did.

>>14598224
>nagai fags are in perpetual denial
Sounds like Ishikawa or Getter Robo fans. Seems they're all very alike.

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>>14598204
I'm okay with this.

Nagai does trash, but I like trash. Anti-Nagai fags have a hard time understanding what it means to be psycho sexually liberated. Meanwhile, everyone else on /m/ have delusions of grandeur for their favourite toy commercials. Just look at how Gundamfags get all uppity when you tell them that Tomino is a bad writer.

>>14598238
That's not even from a Nagai manga though.

>He's a dirty pervert with no shame. Even had bear fucking in that one manga he did.
What's wrong with bear fucking? Why you gotta belittle people who have different sexual preferences than you? Are you sexually frustrated?

>>14598202
I see you can't handle expressive faces in manga.

>>14598254
I like nagai's stuff and designs but still hate a lot of shit he does. He's a little polarizing for me.

>>14598238
Why do you continue to make a fool out of yourself after the FSS thread, the Berserk thread, the Leiji thread and so on?

By the way, that's no from Nagai. It's from the guy who did the Boss Borot manga.

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>>14598269
That's because you haven't embraced your inner beast.

A great man once said

"If it is the dirty element that gives pleasure to the act of lust, then the dirtier it is, the more pleasurable it is bound to be."

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>>14598264
>expressive faces
Nagai faces have the best expressions.

>>14598263
You're missing the point. He's a misogynist and a degenerate. There's no argument about that. But you know what? I still like him, but I can at least tell when he makes a shit manga. Most of you guys have your heads up your asses and think everything he does is great.

>>14598196
>Female companions constantly lose in fights compare to the hero irregardless of their actual skills
>Constantly strip and humiliated by bad guys and good guys alike whether the situation calls for it or not

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>>14598318
>>14598319
Maybe he doesn't fit in the sjw tumblrina definition of misogynist, but he likes women.

>but I can at least tell when he makes a shit manga.
The only manga I disliked was Jushin Liger, and that's because it reeked of manga tie in.

I've enjoyed myself considerably with any of his other titles and othe derivatives.

>>14598318
>ebin.png
Give it a rest

>>14598318

Nagai loves women so much he takes every available opportunity to celebrate the female form in all his works.

>>14598344
>they are sjw if they disagree with me or label anything as sexist
Back to /v/ with you.

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“Sex'' is as important as eating or drinking and we ought to allow the one appetite to be satisfied with as little restraint or false modesty as the other”

>>14598364
No one is complaining about nude girls here more or so how girls in nagai manga are treated or their competence.

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“Your body is the church where Nature asks to be reverenced.”

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>>14598371
They have to be incompetent so you can see them nude you fool.

>>14593885
>fucking problem

More like a problem fucking

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>>14598318
>He's a misogynist and a degenerate.

When SJWs meet Neo-Nazis

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>>14598319
>Female companions constantly lose in fights compare to the hero irregardless of their actual skills

Boss Borot and co and females now? Also, Sayaka's combat skills are irrelevant when her mecha isn't made for fighting. Even then she kills a few mechabeasts.

Also, nudity isn't "sexist" :^)

Can we have one day without spic, xpearse and diebuster shitposting

>>14598238
Perversion is synonymous with misogyny?

>>14598030
LOL says the guy who's part of the group who gets triggered anytime someone says or does anything remotely 'tumblr-like.'

For people who like to joke about safe spaces and triggers, you anti-SJWs seem to be the ones who get triggered the easiest and have to run away to your safe space on 4chan.

>waaah I'm not triggered, you're triggered! G-go back to tumblr waaah

>>14598459
You don't like Nagai. We get your point. You're not going to be convinced otherwise and you won't be convincing anyone else. So just go. Walk away.

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>>14598435
>shitposting
Seems somebody can't handle a little criticism. Grow up a little, okay?

>>14598440
No, but in Nagai's case it is.

>>14598356
Nah. I'm pretty sure he just does that because he can't get it up. Ha ha. Wow. That's really pathetic. No wonder he has no children.

>>14598254
>gundamfags
Woah, and here I thought we were allowed to enjoy more than 1 franchise?

I didn't realize /m/ was full of people who only like 1 anime. Is that why you guys are so obsessed with keeping discussions contained to a single general? Talk about maximum fucking autism.

>>14598435

The boogeymen are expanding its numbers, I see.

>>14598469
But this deserves elaboration. Because people love equating the two. Show a little female skin and you're sexist. And isn't Nagai cruel to both sexes?

>>14598469
Fuck off xpearse

>>14598472
Fuck off mario

>>14598344
>I've enjoyed myself considerably with any of his other titles and othe derivatives.

Not our fault if your standards are low.

>>14598426
>michiru was killed for the sake of drama

>>14598426
>Also, nudity isn't "sexist" :^)

No, but that scene with Yuki-Hime there certainly is. How often do you see the boys trapped half-naked in boderline hentai tentacles/snakes?

>>14598488
> What is demographics and artistic freedom/choice?
And you do realize you don't have to read or watch everything released, right? Not everything has to appeal to your taste.

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>>14598475
>Show a little female skin
>skin
>a little
>as if that's all it is
Have you actually read any of Nagai's manga? He doesn't just show a little skin, moron.

>>14598477
Can't handle the banter, eh? Here's your (you).

>>14598285

Not sure why you're mixing my stuff with someone else's. I never even bothered with the likes of FSS or Berserk. It's pretty clear that kind of shit is not made for me. Nagai at least had some appeal early on, which disappeared right after I got to read more of his works and noticed he's really inconsistent and while he can have some neat ideas sometimes, he's almost incapable of executing them well.

>>14598496
Wasn't just talking about Nagai. Was speaking in general.

>>14598496
Fuck off xpearse

>>14598495

So you can be sexist if in order to appeal for other sexist bastards? Gotcha!

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>>14598488
Anything aimed at young men is sexist, yeah.
Fucking moron.

>>14598579

So It's natural for young men to be sexist just as much as all women are beasts by nature? I see.

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>>14598590
>Wanting to see women naked is sexist

Get triggered. Nagai even has a manga where Yuki-hime is a dude getting molested.

>>14597013
>Devilman can't be shown on TV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTVj-4uiOt4

ARE WA DARE DA DARE DA DARE DA!

>>14593885
ITT: Nagai fags in denial.

>>14598480
>our

Slow down there, Pablo.

>>14597950

I dunno man, I literally felt chill in my spine when Akira started slashing hippies, well, when manga this dated can evoke emotions like this it's kinda cool. I know it's subjective but I think Devilman has that factor that at times turns silly gore into genuine epic tragedy.

>>14598597

Between wanting to see a woman naked and being raped there's a huge difference. And the gender-bender thing is more of a self-aware gag. He's a silly-looking bearded guy wearing a wig meant to show how ridiculous is for a guy to get molested. Girls are natural, they're "meant" for that as far as Nagai is concerned.

>>14598674
Nice projecting, asshole. Everything in Dororon Enma Kun is played for comedic effect.

Also, Nagai has drawn men being raped but I guess you don't care.

>>14598688

Rape is fun, sure. Men or wormen, it's just hilarious! Comedic genius, indeed! Should be right with the classic banana peel, pie in the face and farts!

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>>14598575
You're desperate. Most of Nagai's works are aimed at heterosexual males and most people who fit that description have a taste for the female form in sexual positions and situations. If you don't like it, don't read it or go find someone who does the opposite. Having an interest in the opposite sex doesn't make one sexist. But carry on with your victim complex if you must.

>>14598809
>What is dark humor

Man, I do wish that /m/ had countryflags like /sp/ or /int/, I am almost certain that all shitposters are americans. Must be their puritanism leaking from their christian background and their obliviousness as an uneducated american that the world is fucking shit, violence, thief and murders occurs everywhere and when Devilman shows it in the most raw form, they think its silliiness,because they never saw theirself in the situation.

When in Devilman they start to use nuclear weapons they dont know the terror of not having ways to defend theirself as any third world country, to see the world fucking ends because some people far away from you can decide it. They cant understand and call it preachy but to put yourself in the mindset of the 70's with the whole Cold War still going on. Even more when you are japanese and eventually could see what nuclear bombs could do in your own society its pretty disturbing. Even the violence of the demons, you can call it edgy,but you get some feeling when your own country history is full of it... When you saw a dead body being drawn ripped, destroyed, or anything and you know how it feels, how it smells, it has a suberb power, its not a pleasing feeling, but its a strong feeling (dread, anxiety, fear you name it) that not all readers can get.

sorry for the possible english mistakes, I am sleepy and english its not even my first language, if I could talk in my own language, it would flow much better and say really more how do I feel about Nagai.

>>14598830

Well, I have porn to look for if I'm looking for stuff like that. You must pretty desperate yourself if you're being turned on by anything Nagai had ever drawn. Really, even when I was a teenager going crazy on hormones, I would rather look at lingerie ads than Nagai's manga. Some of his animated stuff could pass, since then it was being drawn by people who actually knew female anatomy better, but no fucking Nagai's art or writing situations for them. Nagai is the wrong place to look if you're looking to "appreciate" the female's form, in sexual situations or not.

>>14598887

If you mean something like South Park, that actually can make me laugh. I have a very serious face evety time I think Nagai is trying to make me laugh. So if that's dark humor, I fail to see what's so funny about it.

take siesta, pablo

>>14593885
Nagai is fucking rad and there's a good chance that your favorite anime probably wouldn't exist if he wasn't doing what he does.
He's not the best writer or artist ever, sure. I'll concede that. But you can't deny that the dude has a lot more creativity and passion than 3/4 of manga artists out there at any given time.

>>14598418
You're now realizing that /pol/ and Tumblr are perfect for each other. Opposites attract, especially when they're so opposite that they become the same fucking thing without realizing it.

>>14599225
Horseshoe theory and all that. Though I do think people fixate on reddit and Tumblr too much and turn a blind eye to SA which is a prime source of some much of that shit. Shit Reddit says, and a lot of the sjw tumblr started out as Goon ops.

>>14599203

What if my favorite anime came before Nagai's time and everything started going downhill after he became a thing? Because that's what it feels like to me. We had good anime like Sabu to Ichi, Ashita no Joe and others... and then everything became MOTW shit to sell robot toys. Thank you, Nagai.

That said, you should read more of his contemporaries and what came before, there was great people out there trying to make quality stuff before Nagai showed up and started appealing to the least common denominator.

>>14599407

No there weren't, grandpa.

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People who call Nagai sexist forget that he created Cutie Honey, where he had no problem with reversing everything: all male characters were useless fodder, all female characters wanted to scissor Honey to death, and Honey herself was the only competent hero in the series while her male friends did nothing but jobbing in every fucking situation. And women loved "Cutie Honey", just as much as men did. So stop calling Nagai sexist - he didn't give a damn about that shit, he only cared about writing fun stories for everyone to enjoy.

>>14599557

So a women is better than all men in her own series? No, not sexist at all.

Seriously, the dictionary is your friend. Learn how to use it.

>Faggots still bitch that Nagai was sexist because female side characters in his manga weren't competent like the main characters
>Somehow don't understand that it's really obvious the main character will be better at everything than the side characters, and that has nothing to do with sexism

It's like complaining that Lois Lane and Jimmy Olson don't get to save Metropolis as much as Superman does so Superman comics must be prejudiced against women and gingers.

I want bitching faggots and women's groups to go and stay go.

>>14599574
How the fuck can you be sexist against both genders at the same time?

>>14599587

Maybe he was a misanthrope like his mentor.

>>14599586

I would gladly read Mazinger's Girlfriend Venus A or Mazinger's Pal Boss Borot comics. But Nagai hate women and fat people.

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>>14599624
Mazinger Angels exists.

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>>14599407
Things like Sabu to Ichi are unique. They were never the norm even in the 60's. Shows from the 60's were just as episodic as "MOTW shit."

Fuck, you're even ignoring Tetsujin which was also MOTW...

>>14599639

That looks awful.

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>>14599624
A Boss Borot manga by Dynamic Pro exists, dumb fuck.

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>>14599648
But it was pretty fun. Aphrodite A had a freaking Super Saiyan mode.

>>14599645

So what new Nagai brought to the table? Popy created the Chogokin line because of Mazinger, so he had a role in anime becoming more and more toy-driven.

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>>14599685
Having the main character pilot a robot, less tubular robot designs, perverted humor, lots of violence...

Yeah, kids anime are generally made to sell toys. Didn't start with Mazinger.

>>14599685
He created super robots, Mazinger Z was the first one of its kind. Same thing with mahou shoujo and Cutie Honey. Every modern mahou shoujo show references Cutie Honey in every 'naked' henshin sequence.

>>14599698

Children's anime are meant to sell whatever the sponsor would produce. In Tetsujin's case, it was sponsored by a candy company. In every robot anime after Mazinger, it was exclusively toy companies who would sponsor the shows. In Tetsujin, you could have almost an entire episode with barely any robot action or Tetsujin showing up. After Mazinger, the norm was to show the robot doing its docking/combining and using his special attacks to finish the enemy in every episode, taking a huge amount of screentime And plots became way more formulaic due to that.

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>>14599714

I give you the "naked" part.

>>14599733
Mazinger episodes had plenty of variety and setups. The docking and special attacks were cool as fuck. It's not Mazinger's fault it spawned a wave of knockoffs.

Stop feeding the troll.

>>14599777

It's not its fault, indeed. But it's what happened. And well, while we're at it I must tell the average Nagai's fan on /m/ would tell you the Toei anime is shit and you should read the manga. Like that was some sort of masterpiece.

>>14599733
>you could have almost an entire episode with barely any robot action
You're trying to tell me this is a positive thing?

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>tfw this thread is replicating Harenchi Gakuen's discussion era again
kek

This is what Nagai does to people. He feeds on detractors and fans alike for their sexual & demonic energy.

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>>14599794
Nagai is the only troll here.

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>>14599839

>>14599839

Yes. Yes, it's. The original Tetsujin anime had no budget and as a whole, not very good adaptations of the manga stories (before it became 98% original content for TV). But that was not because the lack of robot action. The 2004 remake is great and it's also pretty limited in that department. It cares more about plot and characters than showing how cool the main robot is. And I would love to have more shows like that.

>>14599854

Why are you on /m/ if your first priority is not robot buttling?

>>14599848

>I'm here stuck with this guy who believes I opened his country's doors to science fiction works because of a old tv show I barely had anything to do with.

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#TheTriggering

>>14596237
Im surprised Dorothy's metal vag wouldnt just break the dude's leg.

>>14599861

Because I used to like them as a teenager and I think there's still potential for the genre when at the right hands. Even Nagai's works can be enjoyable when someone else get them out of his hands and do something right with his crazy ideas.

>>14599881

If you don't like mecha anime why are you here? Why don't you go to /a/ and discuss your "plot" and "characters" there, and leave us manchildren to enjoy our robotic explosions?

>>14599574
Who gives a shit what's 'sexist' in a piece of fiction? It's FICTION. People can put whatever they damn well please into a fictional work, not everything has to cater to your trendy sensibilities that nobody's going to even care about in 5 years time. If you want to look at everything through the lens of faggy, hypersensitive postmodern dialectic bullshit, of course you're going to have a bad time with Nagai's stuff. That's just a given, so why waste your time trying to articulate how it triggers you and spend your time watching Steven Universe or whatever rare thing that you pissy schoolmarms actually enjoy instead? Seriously, why the hell are you even on /m/ in the first place, go back to /co/.

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>>14599896
You're asking tumblrites to ignore things they don't like.

As if that's going to work.

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>>14598202
Someone probably made this edit before, but I wanted to do it anyway.

>>14599128
this desu

>>14597742
I've seen it once when some tranny e-celeb guilted a really good fan artist I followed on Tumblr for drawing Devilman's Satan because he's a problematic character that "demonizes intersex people". She responded to this by deleting her entire fucking Tumblr to "make up for it" (I'm not making up this shit). But that artist was a retarded easily-manipulated ideologue coward who also severed all contact with a friend because he wasn't social justice friendly enough without even trying to reason with him. So it's a shame such amazing drawing skills were wasted on such a lame person.

I've seen Neogaf people react badly to other "problematic" elements, and then there's fat uncharismatic Youtube faggot Bennett the Sage who dismissed Devilman based on the first 2 OVAs' bad dubs for being disgusting violent trash while not even knowing there's a manga (this is the same retard who started ranting about TOXIC MASCULINITY in Golgo 13 and how yaoi is offensive to gays despite not being gay himself so yes I would count him as a trendy leftist ideologue). He also directly sparked an "idol" who started his own Youtube channel and reviewed the actually-fantastic arc of the Violence Jack manga and had absolutely no legit criticism of it beyond "it offends me"

>>14600334
>the actually-fantastic arc of the Violence Jack manga
*first arc

By "first arc", by the way, I mean from the earthquake backstory up until when Jack leaves the kids and they manage to take out The Dragon on their own. Say what you will about other story arcs in Jack, or the pointless "this isn't a shonen anymore, better make it really fucked up" moments in the 80s run, but that was a well done story with moments of genuine emotional horror as opposed to "eew gross"-horror.

>>14599903
I've been around 4chan longer than you, redditor.

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I love this man

>>14600334
Even without taking into account the manga, the 2 ovas are good enough. Bennet enjoyed Cutie Honey and Kekkou Kamen though. He did his research and talked about Harenchi Gakuen when he reviewed Kekkou Kamen. I wish he would have provided context for Devilman as well, instead of the shit he did.

>>14596237
>>14599872
Srsly.
She weighs enough to compact car shocks and warp shit by landing on it. his foot should be toast.

>>14600334
>this is the same retard who started ranting about TOXIC MASCULINITY in Golgo 13

..well yes, it's a pulp series and water is wet. You frankly have to go for extremely exotic stuff, like French comics, to find pulp series that explicitly aren't like that.

>>14600338

The first arc was good. I don't care for anything that came after, though. And some are beyond retarded like the one with the boy who control wild beasts with his dick. Devilman as a whole is great. I don't think I enjoyed anything else other than those. I'm mostly apathetic towards any other title of his. Except for Shutendoji and Susanoo, I truly disliked these. They had elements that could make them almost as enjoyable as Devilman or the first arc of Violence Jack, but out of nowhere they take a turn for the worst and left a really bad aftertaste. And finally, I don't care for anything he made past the 80s, that's when I believe he became really terrible. I can't even call Nagai a hit or miss artist, since 98% of his stuff are a miss.

>>14600713

Golgo 13 is a lot more enjoyable when you don't take it seriously. He has a magical penis that makes any girl go crazy without even moving a muscle. I don't know what Saito was thinking but that series was such a bizarre mix of serious and silly elements it's almost as it was making fun of the gekiga genre in itself.

>>14600714
It's hit after hit for me. My favourite Nagai is Devilman Lady followed by Dororon Enbi chan. They have demons and a good raping.

>>14600753
Also Iron Virgin Jun.

>>14600680

Kekko Kamen OVA is terribly unfunny. Shin Cutie Honey is ok, nothing special about it. And there's a part that literally rip-offs dialogue from Cyborg 009, it's so obvious and kinda weird. The scene takes itself seriously, but maybe it was self-aware, I don't know.

>>14597961
Tumblr actually loves Devilman.

>>14600776
>Kekko Kamen OVA is terribly unfunny
Kekkou Kamen was just silly nonsense till the end, and it worked in its favour.

The producers were clearly having fun as opposed to being quiplisted like those found in shitty marvel capecrap.

I can't stand modern american "comedies". Stupid yanks think they're actually funny when they're not.

>>14600790
Who cares? Everyone loves Devilman.

Tumblr hates anything else because they're sjws.

>>14600776
Go Nagai always wanted to do a project with Shotaro Ishinomori, so that might've been the joke.

>>14596913
That arc reads really well if you just spend an afternoon reading it. I pity anyone that tries to read any manga as it is published.

>>14598254
Dammit, I wanna see a Devilman movie animated like Coonskin, now.

>>14600806
>Go Nagai always wanted to do a project with Shotaro Ishinomori, so that might've been the joke.
Ken Ishikawa did, with Shin Henshin Ninja Arashi.

>>14600724
I know most people don't appreciate it, but the research that went into writing some of the stories is remarkable.

>>14600797
>Tumblr hates anything else because they're sjws.

Tumblr is a blogging plattform, not a boogeyman.

>>14600987

It's not about the writing, it's the character itself, he's so silly and surreal trapped in a semi-realistic world. It's a strange contrast. Saito was also a great admirer of Ishinomori and said he envies his panelling skills. He actually drew Sabu and Ichi a few times for promotional stuff in Big Comic and as a gag in his own manga. He can do some expressive characters, it's Golgo who is purposely emotionless.

>>14600991
Sure thing Pablo

>>14601025
Why don't you fellate Ishimori in your own thread?

>>14601214

You're right. I should not off subject in a Nagai troll thread. Sorry about that. I will go back to shitting on Nagai now, thanks!

>>14601247
>I will go back to shitting on Nagai
The whole time you're shitting on Nagai, you don't realise he already shat on you.

>>14601266

He didn't shit on me, he doesn't even know me.

>>14601347
Nagai can be anywhere, anytime, and he can shit on you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with his boner.

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>>14600753
Hey look, it's the "I like Lady because rape" guy from that other thread.

>>14600757
That had funny moments here and there, but I wouldn't exactly say it was very good.

>>14600797
>Tumblr hates anything else because they're sjws
>tumblr is one person
God you're fucking stupid.

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>>14601381
>his boner
How can he do that if he can't even get it up?

>>14599557
Are you omitting the fact she was strip, sexually molested, and nearly rape the whole time?

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>>14601126
The tumblr is under your bed tonight.

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>>14601498

>>14600808
I think one of my favourite things I've ever seen in a Berserk discussion was an anon saying, "I was in high school when Guts got on the boat, now I'm married and have kids and he still hasn't gotten off the boat."

>>14596448
>at least four or five
Did she stalk them over time or just smash and dash?

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>Nagai only uses rape for shock value

>>14601869
He sound super salty that people prefer giant robot than his grim dark manga.

I always wonder about how shit would hit the fan if something like Devilman was brought over to the US back in the late 80s or 90s.

>>14601960

Would be ignored and discontinued like when it actually happened.

>>14601798

Shock value and forced drama. That's only kind of drama he's capable of creating, actually. It just sucks to be a guy in "serious" Nagai manga since sooner or later you will have your "true love" raped for the sake of developing your half-assed character. Devilman is only exception since the only thing to happen is someone taking her head off. But that's alright because uncle Go is just trying to show you how to be strong in case the world becomes truly fucked up out of nowhere.

>>14601865

Where's the rest of the Devilman one?

>>14593885
Uncle Go knows what the kids like.

>>14601865
>>14601869
>>14601876
>>14601882
>>14601883
What are these from?

>>14593885

As a new comer, what's the must read Go Nagai comics? His style seems liek what I'd like.

>>14602395

Devilman. Stop there.

>>14602186
Mazinger, grendizer and Devilman.

>>14601498
this.

>>14602448

Why are you recommending Grendizer?

>>14602395
Kekkou Kamen

>>14600991
"tumblr" there is shorthand for "trendy social justice grievance merchants in general" you autist

>>14601393
you too, autist

>>14603160
because your name is ahmed

>>14602395
Cutie Honey, Mazinger Z and Devilman. That's his golden trio.

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>>14598938
>Man, I do wish that /m/ had countryflags like /sp/ or /int/, I am almost certain that all shitposters are americans. Must be their puritanism leaking from their christian background and their obliviousness as an uneducated american that the world is fucking shit, violence, thief and murders occurs everywhere and when Devilman shows it in the most raw form, they think its silliiness,because they never saw theirself in the situation.

At first I was on your side, son, and then I saw you insulted the great United States of America, your rightful hegemons and overlords.

First, calm your ass down. According to my extensive experience on /pol/, most bad shitposters are filthy Canucks and most good shitposters are Australian.

Now seriously, you little shitskinned Eurotrash from whatever fag country WE set the borders on after we and the Russians split your fucking continent like a cheap whore, you think America isn't violent? We have inner cities that would eat your refugee scumbags alive because our homegrown criminals are so vicious. We have an army of criminals that behead people on our southern border. Everyone is armed. I don't know a single grown man who isn't a NEET that doesn't carry a knife and own a gun, myself included. We are the last warrior culture on this planet and we will set our goddamn boot on the back of your head and rub your face into the dirt until you acknowledge it. Humbly apologizing for not speaking the dominant language of civilization was a good start, but being craven is the natural state of a European and I'm sure you weren't actually trying to retract your offense.

Also, please tip your fedora a little harder, I think your dad almost heard your cry for his attention this time. Jesus saves.

>>14603382
>your rightful hegemons and overlords.
>can't even win a war against mudslimes
kek

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>>14603390

Giving your daughters to them and releasing them after murderrapes because "it was an accident", then spreading your buttholes wide and vowing to stand up even harder against islamophobia when the next attack rolls around is clearly the winning strategy.

This is why all the good giant robots are American and Japanese. Europe is trash and only survives by sucking superpower dick for funding. Worse, though, than Europe itself is your country. Your country personally, because it survives as a vassal of Germany and Brussels. It's like being the slave of someone who is, themselves, a slave. You're being cucked by another cuck.

Behold, you can't even aircraft carrier right.

>>14603414
I'm not even yuropoor but nice try.

>This is why all the good giant robots are Japanese.
ftfy

>when the next attack rolls around
I'm more likely to die in America due to gun nuts than some dumb mudslime attack.

>>14603427

If you get killed by a "gun nut" in America, rather than as a result of urban gang violence, you did something to deserve it and I will laugh about it all the way to the range.

>>14603431
Sure thing Steve. Simply being in this first world shithole is enough. These people who used public buildings really deserved it.

>>14603433
>>14603427
I think that guy is pretending to be a /pol/tard and/or amerifat for the lulz.

>>14603235
Like 4chan is a short hand for "online harassment", "SWATting" and "dead rodents in my mailbox"?

Jinmen is such a bro

>>14600680
He's done one or two decent videos very early on (I actually liked the Mezzo Forte one) but now the bad far outweighs the good. For years he's been a smug-ass e-celeb who refuses to take any criticism; I and a friend tried to explain to him that calling Masami Obari the "Rob Liefeld of Japan" is wrong because even though he has bizarre aesthetic sense when illustrating humans (which I personally agree is shitty) he's an extremely skilled artist and it really IS a legit case of "his style". Naturally he went on to completely ignore us and make that exact statement in his next video anyway. And it wouldn't be a problem if he just tried to be a comedian (well it would be because he's uncharismatic and not funny but that's another thing) but he also tries to be an informer and a critic and he's garbage at that.

His fucking Galaxy Express video where he tried to pretend to be a BIG LEIJI FAN but had no idea about Tetsuro's early design from the beginning of the story and thought that was "bad off-model drawing" in the flashback... the fuck is wrong with you nigger. He cares far more about 'cool cynical internet man' identity-wank than about actually informing people or even being funny.

>>14600714
The "controlling a tiger with your dick" thing was retarded but felt intentionally so. I didn't think that was one of the best arcs but it had some nice action art here and there.

Have you seen the part where Jack fights The Dragon? I thought it was a fantastic highlight and some of Nagai's most visually creative storytelling. Jack can be very hit and miss but it has more hits than just that first arc.
>>14601393
>>14600991
>>14603447
I've used 4chan since 2005 (and researched the earliest 2 years I missed right down to reading ancient ADTRW threads and Raspberry Heaven logs) and I've used Tumblr since 2011 and I can confirm that generalizing Tumblr as far-leftists is much, much more accurate than generalizing 4chan as turboedgy /b/ trolls. I like Tumblr because you CAN form your own mini-community away from the bullshit; but I also like having my views challenged whether it's by centrists or radicals or whoever so I do go outside of the "cool internet dudes safe space" I created and yeah, the majority of the site is extremely fucking far-left.

I think as of late they're starting to slowly open their eyes though. The aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo massacre was nothing but "LOL WHITE PEOPLE GOT KILLED BY OPPRESSED POC XDDD OWNED" but after the Orlando shooting more people thought "hmm maybe Islamic culture does have its problems..." I don't even know if that'll last. Up until now it's mostly been a cultish hellhole as far as political views go.

Nagai is not often targeted because Nagai is extremely niche. If you're gonna be exposed to Nagai stuff chances are you are seeking it out which is why you never see write-ups about the problematicness of Violence Jack.

>>14603904
>The aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo massacre was nothing but "LOL WHITE PEOPLE GOT KILLED BY OPPRESSED POC XDDD OWNED"

Seems like a typical way for a bunch of US teenagers to frame something that's fundamentally an alien culture in terms of their own.

So a paper that's pretty damn often making fun of an icon of folks who pass for nonwhites, which equals the Africanest of negros in their minds, would indeed be a bunch of assholes who make a living on releasing racist cartoons. In the US, that is.

>>14603920
That wasn't the mainstream left wing opinon though, even some of the most liberal people I'm aware of outside of Tumblr thought it was fucked up. Tumblr was alone in that opinion being the consensus.

>>14603927
>That wasn't the mainstream left wing opinon though
Tumblr isn't mainstream left in the first place, so what's your point?

>>14603954
Except it defines what mainstream leftism is. Look at how the left has been tripping over itself to pander to tumblr and their seventy billion "genders."

>>14603927

So, kind of like 4chan and Anders Breivik? In person, very few conservatives are willing to express support for what he did, but he's held up as a hero here.

>>14603959
>Look at how the left has been tripping over itself to pander to tumblr and their seventy billion "genders."

Where are you from? People sexually identifying as attack helicopters are no topic in any leftist mainstream I'm aware of here in Europe. White people wearing dreads even less so.

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>>14603959
>Look at how the left has been tripping over itself to pander to tumblr and their seventy billion "genders."

You'd have to be reeally disconnected from reality to think that 'Tumblr Genders' are a mainstream thing outside of the internet.

>>14603988

Facebook has 70 genders now

>>14603997
Facebook is a company trying to have their users generate highly personalized data-sets, which Facebook sells to third parties.

If enough of Facebook's users feel that they need more genders, then that is a significant data-point in the sets Facebook can offer.

Also Communism had 70 genders, so it's only natural for Facebook to follow suit.

>>14603904
>the majority of the site is extremely fucking far-left.
The irony is that I consider myself far left but I can't stand either extremes.

The far right are retarded with their religious bs, and preaching. The left are retarded with their constant safe space bullshit. Both extremes want to censor each other. Sjws and femnazis are more on the right than they actually believe.

Nagai is the correct kind of far left. I wished there were more people with my views and his.

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After /his/, /lit/, and Leftist Twitter, hearing people refer to idpol liberals as "leftists" triggers me.

>>14603904
>Have you seen the part where Jack fights The Dragon? I thought it was a fantastic highlight and some of Nagai's most visually creative storytelling. Jack can be very hit and miss but it has more hits than just that first arc.

Not that I can remember. I read some other arcs, but nothing really impressive. I'm sure there's other good stories out there. The series is gigantic. But when it's bad, it's really bad. Especially considering this was supposed to be one of Nagai's "serious" works. Many of them are really mediocre too, so it's hard to have a consensus in the overall quality of the series.

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>>14605421
>Violence Jack
>meme cameo series
>serious
You're deluded.

Nagai doesn't do serious. He does comedy. To treat his comedic works as serious is baffling.

Devilman is the greatest comedy of all time. Dante 's Divine COMEDY you nigger.

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>>14605454
>Dante's Divine COMEDY

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I thought Nagai was a serious author until I read the ending of Devilman Lady.

Then I immediately knew he was just taking the piss out of his readers with his bait-and-switch tactics.

>>14603988
http://nypost.com/2016/05/19/city-issues-new-guidelines-on-transgender-pronouns/

>>14605454
That's not what commedia means in a medieval context, you fucking retard.

>>14598597
What's this from?

>>14601960
>>14602061
It was discontinued because the idiot guy coloured them and Nagai was not pleased with the results.

>>14603390
The states could have wiped out that whole area of the globe by now if they really wanted to.
Mudslimes are also trickier than you give them credit for. They are doing a number on Europe now and half of us don't even realize it.

>>14607641
Why are japanese so dead set on being against progression?

>>14607918
Stop being a moron. They vandalized his art. I've seen images of it and it was beyond bad.

>>14607925
>They vandalized his art
Its call "localization"

>I've seen images of it
Well? Are you going to show them or not?

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>>14607940
No, they vandalized it. Stop talking about things that are factually ignorant about.

>>14607940
>Its call "localization"
Reminder that the first German release of Asterix was basically a Nazi rewrite.

>>14605531
He's being "ironic and funny" by saying Devilman is only enjoyable to laugh at it because faggot western anime culture cool guys say that.

The silliness of the demon gore scenes in Devilman only add to the human-on-human slaughter at the end, and I have little doubt that someone as self-aware as Nagai didn't realize a lot of it was silly; the difference between Akira decapitating a demon with his eyebrows and the
witch hunts at the end is huge.

And yes the human witch hunt scenes were exaggerated too; almost everything in Devilman is exaggerated. That doesn't mean they're not engaging.

If you think Nagai was devoid of self awareness and couldn't mix comedy and seriousness or didn't have a sense of self awareness you've just not read enough Nagai manga. If you only think he did comedy you're either an ironic try-hard or retarded.
>meme cameo series
Have you read it or just skimmed through Awesome Engine's summaries? There are serious arcs and sillier arcs. The kid controlling tigers with his dick was obviously not serious, but the entire earthquake backstory was. I dunno how you guys can have so much experience with Japanese media and not be used to the Japanese way of mixing silliness and seriousness in ways that the west usually doesn't.
>>14607641
>>14607918
Get the torrent of Danzig's magazine with the Shin Devilman scans on the inside; the coloring isn't just generic or amateurish, it's goddamn horrific. The colorist tried to add realistic detail to the faces (like nostrils) with his airbrushed shading and it's outright uncomfortable to look at.

Danzig may have gotten a bunch of people into Devilman though with the way he constantly pimped it though, so that's another plus along with making my favorite punk songs ever in the late 70s and early 80s.

>>14607967
Post the really fucked up ones I mentioned here >>14607967
> The colorist tried to add realistic detail to the faces (like nostrils) with his airbrushed shading and it's outright uncomfortable to look at.

I deleted my files and I'm too lazy to find the torrent, but your example isn't nearly as horrible as it gets.

>>14605421
I feel that way about most super-long episodic series though. I don't consider red jacket Lupin a bad anime but I'd never tell someone to avoid it; just recommend stand-out episodes.

>>14607947
What am I suppose to see that is inherently horrendous?

>>14608067
Are you serious?

>>14598938
>I am almost certain that all shitposters are americans
Nah, it's pretty well-known the main shitposter against Nagai is some form of spic.

>>14607967

You're giving Nagai way too much credit.

>>14608522

Born in Italy.

>>14608712
And none to your post

tips*

>>14598238
>>14598318
>>14598371
>>14597950
>>14598459
>>14598459
>>14598469
>waah muh soggy knees
>I-I'm not from tumblr
>LOL pathetic, Nagai = loser

Fucking shit, my sides. Keep it up, Nagai, I love watching normies get triggered hard by black and white 1970s comics.

>>14603390
This is pretty much proof that you're under 18.

If you weren't, you'd probably fucking know how hard we crushed mudslimes in the first Gulf War and Iraqi Freedom.

>>14609112
And yet you probably learned that from a videogame you mongrel

>>14607967

Ohhh, look, it's BusterBeam again. Prepare yourselves, you will hear this same stuff over and over again. He always uses the same argument against everyone and how they're ignorant of old japanese media. Because BusterBeam is the only human being on Earth who knows how to read old manga. Always fighting against the evil of ANN and MAL, he's like an entity sent by God Tezuka himself to teach us how to thinking like him is the best way to go.

>>14609414
>baseless accusations
OK

And yet you probably came out both breach and strangled by the umbilical cord, mongoloid.

>go away from /m/ for a few months
>come back to this
What in the blue fuck is going on here? I just wanted to talk about robots

>>14610489
I don't know either, I was gone for about a year and just came back a few days ago and a bunch of threads have devolved into this.

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This thread proves that I don't have to venture out of /m/ to trigger swjs with Nagai.

>>14599288
As did 4chan. Truly the grandpa of the hellhole that is the internet.

hypothetical question,

If I say that I don't like Trump, does that make me SJW, Tumblr,libtard, and cuck?

I am just trying to understand the logic of Nagai fans here. Because it looked like some anon legitimately criticized Nagai's work by being heavily depended on shock value , and unnecesary nudity only to be counter argued with "go back to tumblr, SJWs".

>>14610571
>heavily depended on shock value
What is shock value and how do I detect it?

Unless you're a gigantic pussy, there's nothing in Nagai that can shock anyone over the age of 18.

>unnecessary nudity
Clothes are unnecessary and meant to be ripped away.

Legitimate "criticism" my arse. Those are the cries of a sjw tumblrina who hates the female form.

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>>14610349
Don't cut yourself with that edge

>>14605494
he basically got fucked over and had to end it early

>>14608712
Or maybe you're not giving him enough credit. I've seen more than enough by him to know he was a fantastic creator who understood his medium wondefully.
>>14610142
The fact that you have to make this about me as a person every single time and post off-topic ad hominem internet drama bullshit is very telling

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>>14597950
From all the raws & translations I've seen Violence Jack had some pointless "so edgy" IMO in the 80s seinen series and that was about it. The 80s run still had some fantastic moments though and should not be skipped.

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>>14610975
After all the seinen run is the one with the Mazinger story in it.

>>14605494
Why would it surprise you that someone who's done so many series has done some garbage? People like Tezuka & Nagai were hugely prolific and regularly working on multiple series at the same time. Of course they were gonna shit things out for a lot of them and focus on what they actually cared about.

The "DL is good because rape" guy will come up and call me a fag probably but as a whole it felt like something editors wanted him to do.

>>14611013
>but as a whole it felt like something editors wanted him to do.
Not rape guy, but this is a legitimately dumb statement showing that Devilman Lady went completely over your head. Whoosh.

>>14611013
When will people understand that "trash" is actually a genre that Nagai specialises in? He's friends with the guy (Lloyd Kaufman) who created The Toxic Avenger for heaven's sake. The director who did Tokyo Gore Police is also a fan of Nagai, and he said he always wanted to do a Violence Jack movie.

Tezuka and other authors like Ishinomori and Yokoyama were on a completely different spectrum. Guys like him wanted to make good manga to not only please their audience, but also for their own image.

Tezuka wanted people to think of him as the next Picasso who's taking cartoons to the next level. This is why he did those experimental animated shorts, and this is why he got butthurt at Ishinomori.

>>14612849
Give it up diebuster

>Guy reads Violence Jack
>Complains about there being rape in a lawless land filled with violent criminals

Heh

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>tfw you want more of Tatsuma and Mondo but you know you'll never get anything else with them in the near future.

>>14600334

Hi Busterbeam

>>14612971
fck off pablo, i'm not that faggot

learn to deal with it or go back to tumblr if you are triggered that much

>>14613297
tumblr is that way

>>14613317

Just sayin' hi, no value judgements

Hey spic, why isn't Ishinomori capable of writing a satisfying ending?

>>14613357

I dunno. Inazuman is the only one that failed to give me much of a impression. I still think Ryu no Michi, Kikaider and the original Cyborg 009 run have pretty good conclusions. The rest are satisfying enough for me, though, but I can see why other people might not like it. I can take criticism on my favorite artist when it makes sense. Now if you're saying something like "he only makes tokushit or most of his stories are about cyborgs, or it's always the same", then I would call your bullshit.

>>14612849

Tezuka is disgustingly underrated in /m/ when ppl are too busy sucking Nagai's dick.

I read his Tetsuwan Atom manga , it was waaayyyy better than anything Nagai had ever created. It did have a positive message while not being preachy and being mindless violent "rawr look at me, me so alpha as fuck11!!!oneone" and casual rape bullshit like Nagai did.

>>14613452
>Tezuka is disgustingly underrated in /m/ when ppl are too busy sucking Nagai's dick.

Any classic manga artist, really. And I'm not even much of a Tezuka fan. But outside of /m/, there's way too much cock-sucking for him already, like the guy is the only cartoonist of value from Japan, worth being mentioned in american comic history books and stuff. I wish all this praise would be coming from something like Astro Boy, but no, americans are so obsessed in proving comics are not kiddie stuff that they chose to praise those crap adult comics Tezuka made in possibly the worst years of his career.

>>14613452
>It did have a positive message while not being preachy

Yeah, those little monologues where Tezuka self insert himself aren't preachy at all.

>>14613405
Kikaider's ending was fucking awful.

>>14613513
>Kikaider's ending was fucking awful

Says you. Me and quite a few people in the industry would disagree. Kikaide's ending is probably the most iconic of all his hero works. But if you don't like, don't feel like I'm forcing you to because me and a bunch of people tell you otherwise. If you think it's terrible, then it's terrible... For you.

>>14613405
>Now if you're saying something like "he only makes tokushit or most of his stories are about cyborgs, or it's always the same", then I would call your bullshit.

And then you turn around make that same tier shitpost about Nagai >>14613452

Ironing pizza

>>14613892

But that's not me... I even responded to that same post here: >>14613489

>>14600334
>Bennet the Sage
Why'd you have to go and remind me that that moron exists? His Genocyber review was just him not understanding the plot for 30+ minutes and his Wings of Honneamise review showed that he can't into subtext at all.

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>>14612849
Have you actually seen Nagai talk about art, or about the themes of his work? He takes that shit seriously and clearly sees manga as an artform. Many creators like Hideaki Anno, Kentaro Miura and Kazuki Nakashima also take Nagai seriously (all OVERRATED NORMIE TRASH according to you fuckers though so lol)

Glenn Danzig has also been a Nagai fan since at least the 80s and the guy has always been one of the most comically unironic people on earth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weNO9k1TXS0

Just because Nagai often embraces ridiculous camp doesn't mean he didn't take the serious moments seriously or that his works entirely dedicated to silly shit weren't still good. They were still made with the same fundamental knowledge, creativity and understanding of the medium.

Of course he did have legit shit works but that's a natural result of making so much manga. He himself admitted a lot of his stuff he simply didn't want to make and was forced by editors.

Some critics have trouble justifying their enjoyment of movies like Toxic Avenger without invoking the lazy "so-bad-it's-good" label, but not all. Just from a quick skim on Rotten Tomatoes:

>here, beneath all the smiles and sun and buff bodies, is a vision of the US as a place of corruption, pollution, and violent criminality, with the ordinary law-abiding "little people" constantly at the mercy of a toxic American Dream.

>An outlandish mix of gory violence and realistic special effects.

Just because something is puerile and silly doesn't mean it can't be an objectively good work if it is executed with impressive craft.

for the record I think Devilman Lady is pretty shit, I just like this one spread

>>14613452
I've pimped the hell out of the Astro Boy manga everywhere after I started reading it and I do think it's underrated. People like you are why I find it uncomfortable to talk about Tezuka on the internet; this kind of smug "Tezuka is art, creators like Nagai are trash" attitude always feels like it's bubbling under the surface. As if Tezuka never inserted his bizarre fetishistic obsessions into his work, even at the cost of harming the central message. Or are you going to tell me that Bagi's cat girl fanservice doesn't create a huge conflict with its "gene splicing research is horrifying and wrong, don't play god!!!" message?

In fact I'd argue that Nagai is UNDERrated and Tezuka is OVERrated in many circles specifically because of this misconception that Tezuka was pure and clean and Nagai was "gross problematic rape guro trash". There used to be a time when /m/ was full of Nagai fans but now I see more Bennett the Sage-tier opinions about him than actual praise.
>>14613489
Oh give me a fucking break, people have been shitting on Nagai here for years. Back in 2008-09 it was a place to go to if you wanted to meet unironic Nagai fans, but these days even fucking Tumblr is better for that purpose. A lot of people these days just cum over Ishikawa because they're "GURREN LAGANN IS CANCER" bandwagoners while treating Nagai like garbage.

As for "UGH SHITTY TEZUKA ADULT MANGA BEING PRAISED OVER ASTRO BOY" what? The most western fandom-approved Tezuka works, Black Jack and Phoenix, are both shonen. As far as seinen goes I think MW was shit, but Ode to Kirihito is much better than it. Swallowing the Earth is awesome, charming and funny as hell even if Tezuka considered it a failure. People often list Alabaster as "SHITTY ADULT MANGA" but that one was shonen too so good job on not even checking Wikipedia.

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>>14614437
>>14613452
>>14612849
As for Tezuka vs. Nagai, both have their strengths and weaknesses. A lot of Astro Boy chapters (which hipster 4chan types say are "better" than his more universally recognized works like Black Jack & Phoenix where the writing got significantly better) suffer from the characters narrating everything they're doing and never shutting the hell up. Devilman & Violence Jack's writing can still feel awkward but Nagai learned well (I suspect from Ishinomori?) that often you should just let images speak for themselves and "if you can't do that, you're better off writing books" (Nagai literally said that in an interview). As a result Devilman & Violence Jack have a lot of wordless yet visually evocative scenes and have far more of an impact that way. Tezuka got better over time but still never quite got past the weird "ok, now here's the moral of the story kids :)" moment even as late in his career as Adolf. Meanwhile 80s Violence Jack had a narrator sometimes but it felt purposeful, making the story feel like a legendary tale from a dramatic narrator.

Nagai and Tezuka both had a huge impact in manga & anime in terms of both storytelling and artwork, though Tezuka has likely had more. He was an extremely fucking creative man and the way he created the basis for most anime aesthetics even today by applying Bambi eyes to his own specific way of drawing facial structure was pure genius. Nagai also created tons of iconic imagery, like his beastly, sneering, paralellogram-eyed demons & mecha.

Tezuka had far more technical drawing skill than Nagai as far as drawing things solidly and three-dimensionally goes, so that's one area where he absolutely tears apart Nagai.

Both are wonderful. I don't think they would have gotten along well irl at all but they both deserve boatloads of respect.

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>>14614437
>>14614453
But to help make my point I'm gonna post some pages from a Jack story that makes fantastic use of visuals.

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>>14614462

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>>14614464
Extremely kick-ass paneling

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>>14614467
This chapter does a spectacular job at making Jack look less like just a big guy with a big knife and more like a chaotic, unpredictable force of nature.

>>14614437
>these days just cum over Ishikawa while treating Nagai like garbage.
That literally never happens. You need help.

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>>14614470

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>>14614471
Maybe I've just been unlucky. Not too long ago there was an OP talking about how Getter Robo made him want to read the Mazinger manga and how he's reading volume 1 and it's complete garbage, with a flood of people agreeing and saying Nagai is an overrated hack (and yes I know the later Mazinger chapters got screwed over for various reasons, but the early ones were some pretty iconic, well-executed stuff). I've tried to strike up conversations about Nagai manga recently the same way I did in 2008-10 and got maybe 5 responses.

>>14614472

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>>14614476
The way this panel is put together as if Jack is rushing into the page is wonderfully dynamic, as is the way the dudes he's gonna fuck up and the ground they're on are woven around him to create a nice overall drawing.

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>>14614479
More "Jack as a force of nature" stuff.

>>14614431
>I think Devilman Lady is pretty shit
Am I in a minority for really liking it?

I thought it looked great and did a good job acting as a thematic successor to Devilman. If nothing else it was cool to see some more Devilman scenarios with good artwork. A lot of stuff felt like drawn out rehashes of what was already done but I appreciated the greater focus on the already dire state of humanity and the implications of a legitimate threat to our existence.

Devilman was mostly a personal story so the change in scale was very interesting.

That fucking ending though, holy shit.

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>>14614481
I normally don't like motion lines like the ones on the bottom here as they can be an excuse for not having dynamic characters (Devilman Lady sadly suffers from this, those were the dark ages of Nagai's style) but here it works together with the characters to create honest dynamism as opposed to faking it.

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>>14614485
And now is when the scene gets really good.

Note that the cavalry Jack is fighting are known as "The Dragon" and they're not literally morphing into a dragon.
>>14614483
I would've liked it as a weird spin-off if he didn't make it part of "Devilman canon" in a way that cheapened the original story so much. And even with all that I could've been forgiving of it if he kept the ending to yuri incest instead of that comedic ass-pull twist.

Nagai said in an interview that he's done a bunch of 'scary demon'-centric stories when he didn't want to because that's what editors requested; I suspect DL is one of them.

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>>14614492

>>14614476
I've honestly never seen the appeal of Nagai's manga. It's not just the old art- I read through and enjoyed ALL of Tezuka's Phoenix and Message to Adolf. I just don't find any of his stories interesting, I think his humour is Beavis and Butthead level pathetically crude, and the stupid comic violence just makes me cringe.

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>>14614496
Beavis and Butthead is good though?

Tezuka almost always drew his most serious action scenes in a silly cartoony way and when he tried to draw "serious mature style" it looked like shit (MW). How do you feel about Dororo?

>>14614494

>>14614492
>Nagai said in an interview that he's done a bunch of 'scary demon'-centric stories when he didn't want to
Source.

>>14614496
You're certifiably a pleb. Congratulations.

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>>14614502

>>14614502
>Beavis and Butthead is good though?
Beavis and Butthead is terrible.
However, Nagai is a great manga pioneer with an incalculable influence on anime/manga.

>>14614502
>Beavis and Butthead is good though?
It's a matter of taste, I guess. I just find it tasteless, same as with Nagai's stuff.

>>14614492
I think that tying Devilman Lady directly onto the end of the original Devilman might have been a mistake but I don't consider the original story cheapened. Devilman is still Devilman.Just now there's also another story floating around out there with more Devilman. Since Lady hit all the same notes more or less I don't feel offended. I just think that the execution could have been better, on the whole much better. But volume by volume I think that there's some really great stuff in Devilman Lady.

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>>14614505

>>14614504
I'll try to dig up the source. But
>You're certifiably a pleb. Congratulations.
Actually those with the highest academic credentials in the west as "anime experts" fucking hate Nagai and basically do not understand anime and manga at all.

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>>14614519
>>14614504
FOUND IT http://www.manga-audition.com/go-nagai-sensei-interview-manga-is-the-artists-own-journey-of-the-mind/

>After reading the winning works of SILENT MANGA AUDITION, I realised that manga doesn’t really need words. In fact, a manga that tells a story only using words isn’t that interesting. If that’s what you want to do, I think it would be better to write a novel. At least, that’s how I feel. Using facial expressions or small movements to explain things that you want to explain with words is difficult, but in the end it makes it that much better a manga. Also, within manga, there are a lot of convenient ways of doing things, but sometimes you actually get a better effect if you don’t use them. For example, Katsuhiro Otomo didn’t use any onomatopoeia. He used freeze frame techniques and things like that instead. If you look carefully at silent manga, you’ll see that these kinds of technique are continually being developed.

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>>14614528
Also, Nagai thought about paneling a lot:
>Mr. Ishinomori was continually challenging himself to add his own innovations to what Mr. Tezuka had already developed. He worked really hard to make completely new panel layouts and other improvements.

>I was really surprised when Mr. Ishinomori created really long vertically divided panels. I thought “Wow, so you can also do it this way!” Speech bubbles lying across two panels, or characters drawn over multiple panels, things like that. Now we’re so used to it that we take it for granted, but at the time it was really astonishing.

>I originally started with gag manga, but I incorporated some elements from story manga. At the time, gag manga was divided into equal panels and you always saw the whole character’s body. It was almost like it was taking place on a stage. Back then, there were lots of comics like that. But I think that there is a limit to what you can express that way. So even though I was drawing gag manga, I started using large panels like in story manga, using close-ups, things like that.

Pretty much what I was talking about earlier. Even his works that are just dumb immature comedy still have thought and medium understanding put into them.

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>>14614532

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>>14614534
>Was there ever a time when you drew silent manga?

>Nagai: There was. There is a story called “Kagami no naka no sora” that was published within the Go Nagai Anthology (the SF strange tales edition). If I get a chance, I’d like to try and draw another, but it would probably end up being really long, and then fail to stand out. It would get lost among a bunch of manga that use dialogue. It would be nice if there was a silent manga only project.
Crap, now I want to see that manga.

>>14614528
That says absolutely nothing similar to
>Nagai said in an interview that he's done a bunch of 'scary demon'-centric stories when he didn't want to

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>>14614538

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>>14614540

>>14614539
Wait, sorry, I thought the person was referring to a different quote. I can't for the life of me remember where the demon thing came from as it came from some 2007 interview that I read nearly a decade ago but I could dig.

>>14614544
I tried to look for it and came across this thing from 2005 instead

>During a talk show appearance at the at the Osamu Tezuka Memorial Hall last week, Go Nagai stated that he would like to remake Osamu Tezuka's Black Jack.

>During the show, which was talking about a currently running Osamu Tezuka Tribute Event, Nagai said that there are many manga artists, but Tezuka's manga were the best.

>Nagai said he was four years old when he was first introduced to Tezuka's manga series, Lost World, which his eldest brother would read to him and his siblings.

>Nagai did not say anything about any actual plans to re-make or adapt the famous manga series, he merely that he would like to do it.

>>14614431
>>14614453
Did I say bad and not serious?

All I said is that Nagai specialises in "trash", quotation marks. He explores violence and sex in ways no other old school author has done before. This tumblrina here called Nagai's works crude and the violence stupid >>14614496 when he fails to understand that this is a giant part of his entire appeal. Nagai is more than willing to bend backward to create the trashiest manga possible, all in the name of entertainment. It's easier for him too because he got famous with Harenchi Gakuen. Tezuka can't do that, because that would ruin his reputation. As for Nagai, he just manages to carve out his own identity out of a sea of great authors.

I don't think Tezuka was threatened by Nagai, but Ishinomori sure was threatening to Tezuka. That tells you a lot, since both artists were operating on the same spectrum.

Nagai was on his own, doing his own thing. It's easy to see Ishinomori as a second Tezuka, but it's almost impossible to do that with Nagai, because he's just too out there and different. He's in his own niche.

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>>14614544
Next in line is >>14610975

>>14614548
Nagai actually did a story in Black Jack Alive.

>>14614554
>South Park is the pinnacle of literature

Okay.

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>>14614554
I just don't like "trashy" because it can be easily associated with other traits like "so-bad-it's good" or "only enjoyed ironically". I know it's not exactly the same thing, music for example can be considered "trashy" but also genuinely good but even then I also just don't think it's worth applying to things like Devilman or Violence Jack at its best. The "controlling a tiger with your dick" story? Yeah, sure. The first arc with the earthquake and Ryu Takuma & co's initiation by Jack? Not so much.
>>14614557
Oh fuck I gotta check it out

inb4 no translation
>>14614556

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>>14614563
>>14614554
Like really my entire point was that I wouldn't call Nagai's more serious work "trashy" at all. Shit like the comedic porn manga he did sure, but even that I would not call it bad.

Also

>Nagai was on his own, doing his own thing. It's easy to see Ishinomori as a second Tezuka, but it's almost impossible to do that with Nagai, because he's just too out there and different. He's in his own niche.

I disagree hugely about Ishinomori being just a "second Tezuka". I dunno how you can read stuff like Sabu & Ichi, Ryujin Numa and Fantasy World Jun and think that? Cyborg 009, while more Tezuka-esque, also went beyond what Astro Boy was doing at the time, taking the cartoony stylization further (and also mixing it with tinges of realism better) and knowing how to use silent panels wonderfully.

Even in terms of themes it proposed that "maybe war has a good side to it and is a necessary evil for the advancement of humanity" which I've never seen in a Tezuka manga.

Nagai doesn't even make trashy manga. Trashy doesn't mean subject matter you don't like. Nagai makes sci-fi fantasy. Nagai makes horror. Nagai makes gag. Nagai makes ecchi. Nagai doesn't make trash.

Go Nagai specifically goes out of his way to portray things in an artful manner. For example, take Devilman Lady. In Devilman Lady, rape is not portrayed as sexy like it would be in a generic seinen manga of today. Nagai can draw rape that portrays it as a depraved and mentally anguishing act of violence. Or look at Harenchi Gakuen. Nagai didn't make To Love-Ru 1970s ver. He made an ecchi manga with cute designs that portrays the shamelessness of lust in a comedic form. That's why it was so popular. It wasn't a porn comic despite being full of nudity and sexual situations, it was a commentary on Japan's culture of shame mixed with its repressed sexuality. That kind of message would get lost in a blatantly borderline porn like you see today, Nagai knew how to mix innocent artstyles with shocking subject matter in order to deliver a message.

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>>14613513
>>14613536
Also
>Kikaider's ending being awful
What the fuck, it was fantastic. It cemented Kikaider as a good, honest execution of the "edgy Astro Boy" series that Tezuka was briefly forced into doing and hated.

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>>14614582
>For example, take Devilman Lady. In Devilman Lady, rape is not portrayed as sexy like it would be in a generic seinen manga of today.
Hahahhahahaa nigger come on. I'm one of the biggest Nagai defenders ITT but Nagai's manga was just as contradictory as Berserk in terms of portraying rape as something awful and scarring in writing but the drawings screaming "THIS GUY IS A RAPE FETISHIST".

You sound almost like the Imaishi fans who think the Ragyo & Satsuki scene was meant to be "disgusting and horrifying" (I say "almost" because Nagai manga at least portrays rape as horrible in the writing while KLK treated it like a light hearted Cream Lemon scene)