Why modern animation sucks

>>13631245

>“After that, it was just like I was rebooting. There was like static, and images, and the realisation that I was… wait… in a plane? Why am I in a plane? Why is there an American slapping my face…? Where am I… wha-? And then BANG, I’m back, after a minute unconscious, my head spinning as the co-pilot brought the plane down to land.

>“I stumbled out of the cockpit and down the ladder, and then I threw up.

>“Afterwards, everybody went to lunch. But the producer from Bandai took me off into a corner and just gave me a coffee, some paper and a pencil.

>“He said: ‘No lunch for you. You might drop dead at any moment. First, you must draw the storyboards of a blackout.’

>“So I sat there and drew the storyboards for the sequence in Macross Plus where a pilot blacks out. And that’s what we call authenticity.”

http://schoolgirlmilkycrisis.com/2010/04/06/blackout/

Why is there no longer any passion left like this for mecha animation, or animation at all, period?

>>13631247
Because doing shit like that for a cartoon is stupid and wasteful as fuck and more importantly, too expensive.

>>13631247

Because the average animator earns dog shit money and hasn't got the savings or the free time to be passionate enough to do things like that. Itano did that at a time when the economy was still riding pretty high, there was a lot of talent and love in the industry and the treatment of workers was relatively good (at least compared to nowadays). Then the bubble burst for good and all that went out the window. It's hard to have that passion when you're worrying about your next meal.

>>13631263
People were literally living and working in animation communes to save money in the early 1980s. Shit ain't that bad.

1) background research does still occur... for projects warranting it. Which usually means big ass OVAs.
2) Itano inflicting GLOC on himself just lends support to my suspicions that he has brain problems, and that's why everything he's worked on that uses CG animation ends up being a nausea-inducing spazzout.

PLANES ARE NOT SOME CHEAP GIRL YOU PAY MONEY TO PLEASURE YOURSELF WITH, YOU STUPID FUCK.

>>13631270

The average wage has demonstrably gone down in the Japanese animation industry and even insiders from there who have been around with decades recognize that. The average animator doesn't live in communes now, he lives with his parents, because he's too poor to live in even a commune.

>>13631245

Because there's ways people can put passion into their work that don't involve near-death experiences.

>>13631245
>Literally only two shades of shadow

>>13631263
This was in the 1990's, at the time immediately after the bubble burst. Economically, it was far, far worse than it is now in Japan, and yet Itano and his peers were still given opportunities to do this. That says a lot about how things have changed since then. Investors are much less likely to take risks these days.

>>13631275

Was there even a point? I mean, has anyone ever looked at that particular sequence and thought "that was really cool and realistic and stood out to me above the other stuff" or something along those lines? It's a nice story, but I don't recall being wowed by that particular moment so I don't really see that it matters that he was willing to do that to himself. It's funny, but I'd have preferred he put the research budget somewhere else frankly.

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>>13631258
jesus, what a jaded faggot you are.

We live in a world where people own their own islands, can by and sell small nations if they so wish, and you thrown scorn upon an artist for going to such lengths for the sake of his craft?

Seriously, just fuck you.

>>13631290

The bubble didn't fully burst till 1995 to my knowledge and the research and animation of Plus would have been going on in 1992 to 1994 when it was released.

>>13631292
It's not really funny when you consider his mental process is a few paces away from "I wonder what it's like to be decapitated?"

Itano is actually a massive arrogant asshole if you read his other interviews. I hate the guy but love his (animation) work.

>>13631300

How exactly? He was up at 10, 000 feet in a two seater plane where the co-pilot was more experienced and would be able to take control of the plane at any time. He knocked himself out, but so do plenty of actual pilots and trainee pilots to my knowledge, because doing so is part of the training so you know what it's like and when you're toeing up to it.

>>13631302
>Itano is actually a massive arrogant asshole if you read his other interviews.

I mean, is there a single famous animator other than Obari who isn't? Mitsuo Iso, Takeshi Honda, Anno, Miyazaki, etc. They're all arrogant as fuck.

>>13631292
>>13631292
It wasn't just for the blackout. It was for the entire flight sequence and in-cockpit sequence as well as the dogfights. Basically, to get a sense of how things should really look and the atmosphere their animation should have in those sequences, they went up and flew themselves.

>>13631293
>We live in a world where people own their own islands, can by and sell small nations if they so wish, and you thrown scorn upon an artist for going to such lengths for the sake of his craft?
We've lived in this world for 10,000 years nigger. You should know, whitey did this to your people for millenia.

I wonder what Kawamori took from that experience

>>13631285
That's two more than it is nowadays.

>>13631309
Rebecca Sugar.

>>13631315
If all his projects after Plus are of any indication, severe brain damage on the level of Tem Ray.

>>13631306
He endangered the copilot with his antics.
If he wanted to black out, he should've had the instructor do it.

>>13631309
>I mean, is there a single famous animator other than Obari who isn't? Mitsuo Iso, Takeshi Honda, Anno, Miyazaki, etc. They're all arrogant as fuck.

Don't forget Don Bluth.

>>13631317
But there are shadows nowadays.

>>13631333
Ocelot pls.

>>13631247
>>“He said: ‘No lunch for you. You might drop dead at any moment. First, you must draw the storyboards of a blackout.’
That's fucking hilarious

>>13631315
GUYS
What if I put the Idol INSIDE the Macross's computer?

>>13631339
That's basically an attitude that killed Japan though. Everyone was willing to take risks, to the point where they crashed the economy. Now those guys have all been fired or pushed off to irrelevant positions.

>>13631344
I wouldn't mind that. But I want a Meltran main heroine first. Like a real Meltran. not a micronized hapa.

>>13631350
The idol inside the computer already happened with Macross Plus or did you not watch it?

>>13631354
Not as a love interest though.

>>13631317
>I don't watch anime:the post

>>13631263
>at a time when the economy was still riding pretty high

>Japan in the 90's
>Economy doing well

>>13631296
>>13631313
Go back to /pol/ until you can make an actual argument.

>>13631413
Only if you get back to Tumblr first you sad sack of coon shit.

>>13631436
how cute, anon thinks he's white!

>>13631407

The economy didn't really crash completely until 1995.

>>13631345

>Japanese
>Taking risks

No, what killed the Japanese economy was that it was being driven by massive public spending on infrastructure projects that eventually came to an end because you can only dam so many rivers and build so many bridges. If I recall, nearly every river in Japan has a dam and there are numerous "bridges to nowhere"

There's a reason all of the big keiretsus have a banking arm and a construction arm.

>>13631436
You don't actually think this. You're just trying to get a rise out of people since you're lonely and projects your insecurity on the world. Get some help, take a walk outside or get a hobby.

>>13631502
I've never seen so much self-projection put into one tidy little post.

>>13631247
>>“He said: ‘No lunch for you. You might drop dead at any moment. First, you must draw the storyboards of a blackout.’

Why don't japanese do more comedy series like Aoi Honoo?
I feel like there's a huge untapped source of comedy in early anime industry.

>>13631247
>‘No lunch for you. You might drop dead at any moment. First, you must draw the storyboards of a blackout.’

JAPAN, man. Fuckin' A!

>>13631309

Imaishi is retarded but not arrogant.

Don't you need like hundred of hours to be able to fly a jet fighter?

>>13631309
People who are inspired by the exaggerated Kanada style of animation tend to be very chill. Yuasa, Imashi, Sushio, Obari, etc. The more realistic the people try to make animation, the more likely they're going to be assholes like those others that you mentioned, because realistic motion and detail requires literal autism to achieve.

>>13631551
Obari is so chill he's everybody's aniki

>>13631309

When did Mitsuo Iso say arrogant stuff?

>>13631275
>PLANES ARE NOT SOME CHEAP GIRL YOU PAY MONEY TO PLEASURE YOURSELF WITH, YOU STUPID FUCK.

For this statement alone, this thread's existence is officially justified.

>>13631541
i believe this is at that top gun school thing.
Its like when you get a scuba diving tour , they give you a briefing and someone to monitor your diving, and get you down under .
if you want to get a license to fly thats another thing

>>13631376
Except she was a love interest. She loved Isamu. That was whole reason she went insane you idiot.

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>>13631650

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3noZ3v9kEyM

What's this bullshit you're spouting? You treat your kite like you treat your woman - get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back. Woof!

>>13631541
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDqArqEcNuc

>>13631601
During the production of Dennou Coil, where he was director, he pissed off Takeshi Honda (who was his AD) and a bunch of other people because he refused to compromise, so a good chunk of them quit over time like Honda. He burned a lot of bridges because of that show, which is why you never see him anywhere nowadays, except maybe under an alias or pen name of some kind.

>>13631664
She's not a love interest because Isamu never knew she existed beyond "Oh, you made a robot" and never considered her a person.

>>13631690
I thought that was because he was too demanding and Honda couldn't keep up with his insane demands for a TV anime on time, and so Iso fired him?

>>13631245
>Itano

Wasn't that guy the asshole bitching about Frontier because "lolz sniping in space is retarded"?

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>>13631436
>>13631296
>>13631313
epic posts my man

>>13631889
>Wasn't that guy
>That guy
>Doesn't know Itano and watches Macross
>>>/out/

>>13631247
Because most animation is no longer produced natively in Japan as it's far cheaper to farm out to Korea, India or China.

>>13631889
Yeah, it was him. He was talking shit about Frontier after seeing a few episodes and at the same time plugging his own show that was airing. I can't tell you the name because I never even heard of it until he mentioned it.

>>13631313
>pre history was 12,000 years ago

>>13631889
Why is sniping in space retarded? I mean, we can't still travel in space and robots are retarded anyway.

>>13632118
Something about how sniping on top of an asteroid in space is unrealistic because it would constantly be spinning. Giant robots sniping in space doesn't bother him but that small bit does.

>
Itano: I DID watch all of Macross F. It's not fair to badmouth something without seeing it (chuckle).
So, like, there's one bit where a sniper in space mounts himself on an asteroid, right? But by doing so half his field of vision is gone. And asteroids aren't stationary so his aim is going to be really unstable. And then they use sniper rifles at point blank range? I notice this sort of stuff, you know.

So where is the part where you prove doing things like this was normal in the 90s and not done in the 10s faggot.

>>13632329
I would trust Itano's taste more if his last major work wasn't Blassreiter.

>>13632432
Blassreiter was Itano's work?
Wow, there goes his credibility.

>>13632450
He was director, and writer along with Urobuchi.

>>13632450
If you look at anything he's directed, you'd know he never had any credibility outside of being an animator in the first place.

There's a reason we remember Geist over something like Angel Cop.

>>13631245
It's a shame they went through all the effort,

Plus was awful

>>13632471
>Angel Cop and Violence Jack: Evil Town are pretty good.
If you like senseless gore, sure. I bet you think Berserk is amazing too.

>>13632513
I love Berserk, but only because it has great art and memorable characters. The gore is also more aesthetic than fetishistic, unlike your standard 80's gore OVA like Angel Cop.

>>13631514
So you admit you're a troll.

>>13631345
Im pretty sure construction cartels inflating costs is what caused the crash mate

>>13631275
>>13631283
Pussies. Some people are willing to die for what they do if it makes it authentic because they care, regardless of whether or not the experiment ends up working every time.

>>13632513
Berserk is amazing and atmospheric. I like gritty,grindhouse esque 90s adult animation not senseless gore.

>>13631690
Any source/interviews?
Watched that show recently, some details would be neat.

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>>13632513
Hey, you asshole.
Yes
You with that puny tiny bag over there.

Fuck you.
And I even like Bastard more than Berserk.

>>13632432
>I would trust Itano's taste more if his last major work wasn't Blassreiter.
His last major work was the opening sequence of The Origin I.

>>13631667

But that's not a jet fighter.
What's the fucking point if it doesn't have jet engines?
Might as well re-make Macross with biplanes.

>>13631690
>he refused to compromise

Sounds like artistic integrity to me, better than churning out shit like Gundam IBO and other QUALITY ridden shitshows.

>>13632432
>trusting Itano at all

He was the reason Megazone turned to shit 30 years ago.

>>13632329
>>13632432
He's right though, Frontier's CG and choreography was dogshit and Delta looks even worse. But its not like mecha is a prime seller for the franchise anymore or ever was.

>>13631309
>I mean, is there a single famous animator other than Obari who isn't?

You are delusional to think Obari isn't an arrogant fuck. The even funnier thing is he doesn't have half the skill of Honda/Iso/Anno/Miya.

You read his interviews and you can always see him self congratulating himself for making up amazing ideas, or being a "great" animator - super hilarious since none of the work he does in today's age actually _MOVES_ it's all just still shots and poses over and over again - look at the work Honda/Iso/Anno/Miya did into their 30s/40s and even 50s and they get better and better where as Obari's sakuga quality peaked when he was like 24 years old and he has been nosediving ever since. Can you name any Obari animation that actually looks good from the last 20 years? Something that even rivals his contemporaries? Even the Kanada style animators from his age group are way better than him.

>>13631298
That's why Giant Robo was such a painful production. It took them like 8 years, instead of 3 years, doing way fewer episodes than intended, and killing the sequel they wanted to do. A bleeding shame.

>>13631306
What if his co-pilot had blacked out too? Wouldn't that have been great?

Also I find it conspicuous that the co-pilot didn't take over and prevent him from doing it. Seems awfully dangerous.

>>13631344
So like Megazone 23 pt. One?

>>13632471
I don't think anyone disputes that he's a terrible director, but he was a god among men doing 2D animation.

Nothing lasts forever though. Either he got shitty or the technology and politics of anime caught up with him, not really sure which it is, or what combination it is, but we can remember him for his heyday. There's a reason they call it the Itano Circus.

It's the same with Kawamori really. I guess you have to be crazy to work in an industry as shitty and unrewarding as the Japanese animation industry.

nterviewer: So we're planning a page for fans who don't know you (Itano) or the original Macross.

Itano: Macross Ace (the magazine this is in) is a damned bishoujo character magazine isn't it? I call it "yutori"*, though. Yutori character moe magazine. I think Macross (the original) was popular because of its balance, 1/3 each of cute girls, robots, and songs. But now they say mecha won't sell, robots won't sell, so they turn it into a character-based anime AND they want the fujoshi. I hate the stench of that sort of thing and so actually don't want to be in any magazine articles related to that bullshit, but I said I'd cooperate if they let me badmouth poo and here I am.

(*Yutori = To give room or allowance for something. Used in "yutori kyouiku" (yutori education) which refers to the heavily criticized stress-free education system in use in Japan since 2002. Ever since then grades have been dropping and it has been blamed on kids these days being extremely stupid, spoilt, unable to think for themselves, etc. "Yutori" is slang referring to someone who has received yutori kyouiku, but is nowadays just used as a derogatory term. Think English "retard".)

Interviewer: I... see... (tears)

Itano: I DID watch all of Macross F. It's not fair to badmouth something without seeing it (chuckle).
So, like, there's one bit where a sniper in space mounts himself on an asteroid, right? But by doing so half his field of vision is gone. And asteroids aren't stationary so his aim is going to be really unstable. And then they use sniper rifles at point blank range? I notice this sort of stuff, you know.
It's well-drawn for a TV show and they were trying, but the relationships were half-assed and the heart of the drama is way too messy. Last time we had Minmei become a human failure, but this time it was the main character (laugh). People who like this rubbish have a totally different sense from me, so I'd really be happier if they didn't know who I was at all (laugh).

>>13633890

I would assume that the average trained jet fighter pilot would have better resistance to g-forces than the average joe off the street for one thing. Also the copilot probably didn't take over immediately and prevent it out of shock that someone would try something that lunatic.

>>13634119
He's gotta be a pretty big lunatic too since he put this middle aged Japanese man who didn't understand his 5 minute lecture in the pilot's seat for a fucking DOGFIGHT. I mean he'd have to be pretty on edge or the two planes could just smack together.

This story sounds like it happened in Mexico or somewhere else where you can do this kind of retarded shit.

>>13631280
Average wage for pretty much everyone all over the world has gone down.

>>13634179

Sure. Most people still make enough they can afford to live on their own, or at least live in cohabitation with peers. Japanese animators regularly live with their parents now they make so little for at least the first few years of employment.

>>13634179
And bonuses for executives have gone through the roof... the roof of a skyscraper.

>>13633761
>Sounds like artistic integrity to me

Indeed, but unfortunately that kind of thing doesn't get you any friends, or more importantly, any sales to justify your project's existence. In fact, it killed Iso's career as a director and even as an animator, he had to use pen-names in his later animations because he'd been basically blacklisted from all anime.

>You read his interviews and you can always see him self congratulating himself for making up amazing ideas, or being a "great" animator

I don't recall that. In fact, I most clearly remember him in interviews declining how that "sword pose" was his idea to begin with. Most of his English reviews are just him acting surprised at how much the western fanbase likes his works and how they all give him too much credit for things he didn't do.

>>13631247
>shit that didn't happen

>>13633927
>It's well-drawn for a TV show and they were trying, but the relationships were half-assed and the heart of the drama is way too messy. Last time we had Minmei become a human failure, but this time it was the main character (laugh).

He's 100% right about this you know.

>>13636825

"Alto is as bad as Minmay" -Itano