Can we please be kinder to one another?

if you want kindness go somewhere that reinforces kindness via having your name attached to your posts

this is an environment that allows brutal honesty to exist and thank god. if you feel bad about something you enjoy because someone else doesn't like it it's your own fucking fault for being stupid.

I didn't even read 80% of your post. fuck off. this is not your environment.

>>9755432
Even the threads themselves are starting as Nick Land's AI bot copypastas!

>>9755458
what a stereotypical response
kill yourself

>>9755458

let me guess, you unironically make sam hyde, jordan peterson, and nick land threads and consider yourself an intellectual for doing so

>>9755462
hurrrrr be nice anon

>>9755462
You kill yourself you fucking retard.

>>9755432
This: >>9755458
4chan is where we come to spew our opinions without having to censor ourselves. It's completely unique in that and frankly, cathartic. Don't get me wrong, /lit/ is a shitpit, but "being nice" isn't what 4chan is for.

>>9755464
anon be nice what the fuck?

actually, say anything you want because you're anonymous and it won't come back to hurt you in the future. welcome to 4chan, where people are honest with each other. flourish in it or leave. not even a demand, just the reality of the situation.

>>9755432
You have to go back, snowflake.

It's /pol/ users that come here sometimes to shitpost, the best thing to do in those situations is to ignore them. The mods could also help, but sometimes it looks like they don't give a single fuck for some of the rude/stupid answers that people give just to bait idiots.

>>9755468
>>9755458
you shouldnt be nice but you shouldnt go out of your way to shit on posts that are actually about books instead of >>>/mu/, >>>/r9k/, >>>/leftypol/, >>>/pol/, etc. shit

>>9755432
What did OP mean by this? Was it pure b8 m8?

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>>9755477
why shouldn't I be nice? I'll be nice if I fucking want to and I'll be mean if I fucking want to. I'll shit on posts that are about books if they're about shitty books or if the person says something stupid and I'll say nice things to someone who posts nice books or says nice things about books.

I can say whatever I want and you can say whatever you want back with no consequences. just the same as any boards you just linked me to. welcome to 4chan. have a smug you illiterate nigger cockmongling faggot pedophile.

>>9755458
>brutal honesty

The typical justification cloak for uninformed opinions and shitposting.

There is nothing honest or intellectual about baseless accusation and derision. It's not discourse, it's pointless nuisance.

>>9755485
>I can say whatever I want and you can say whatever you want back with no consequences.
I dare you to say that you're a pedophile.

>>9755490
>it is impossible to be mean while being honest
pseud.

>>9755497
I didn't state that. If I did, you wouldn't have to make up a quote. Thanks for proving my point.

>>9755502
That's what people on 8ch used to say, look what Google did to their website.

>implying anyone discusses literature here any more

>>9755504
but if straw man posts aren't valid then your original response also isn't valid. I called you a pseud knowing you'd say this.

>>9755509
>le good ol days, amirite?

>>9755511
i have a very low bar

>>9755506
that isn't remotely why 8ch got taken off of search engines. had a lot more to do with human/weapons trafficking and CP.

>>9755477
Who says I shit on posts about books?
A shit opinion is a shit opinion, and I shit on shit posts. So. If you can't handle people being assholes, then go someplace where people aren't assholes all the time. But 4chan is for assholes. I'm pretty sure it's in a terms and service somewhere.
You don't post personal information about anyone you don't want doxxed
You don't use a trip
You don't download anything weird people post
And you don't take anything personal.
That's it. That's 4chan.

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>>9755432
>He liked it for its prose, its length, its subject matter.

I saw a movie, I liked it for its number of cuts, its scenery, its soundtrack.
Wew, talk about a fucking vague assesment, did that faggot want a cookie for his marvellously unique insights on 2666?

>>9755510
It's not a strawman, it's speaking from experience. I did the same thing when I was younger. I know the justifications used. Board culture, honest opinions, etc. They've been in use here for the longest time.

I have nothing against mean or cruel derision, but without any backing it's useless. It's just wasted bandwidth.

>>9755519
That's the thing, you unbearable faggot. Why does he HAVE to provide some intellectually rigorous assessment. The dude liked the book, wanted to talk about it. Try to be nicer you pretentious pseud trash.

>>9755521
baseless derision isn't a part of my post any more than a meanness/honesty dichotomy is a part of your post. hence, pseud. grow up.

This sort of behavior is the reason why /lit/ is the only board which hasn't been overrun by plebs

>>9755535
/m/ is the only board I'm aware of that's not overrun by plebs and it's for an entirely different reason.

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>>9755525
>intellectually rigorous
That's your insecure assumption. Literally any kind of specific observation would be better than the vagueness I described.

>EH I LIKE THE NIGHT WATCH BY REMBRANDT HE STROKE THE BRUSH ON IT VERY GOODLY

Again, senpai, wanna cookie for that? Fucking faggot.

>>9755538
It's not overrun by plebs because no one cares to really post there.

>>9755544
So rather than asking, "what specifically did you like about the painting?" I am supposed to say "fuck you pleb faggot le get off my board."

Sounds very helpful.

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>>9755544

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>>9755551
no, it's just a genre that's difficult to access and geared towards nostalgiafags ages 25-40. it has about the same activity with less threads than /lit/, as in more actual discussion takes place there.

this place is filled with metaposting shitposter peasants, look at this thread.

>>9755458
>this is an environment that allows brutal honesty to exist
Shut the fuck up, holy shit. I wish sweaty fat nerds like you would just kill yourselves. This "brutal" honesty is just autism, you're a joke. Kill you are self.

>>9755558
>I only know how to argue using straw man arguments

>>9755564
what an honest portrayal of your brutal thoughts.

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>>9755458

>>9755570
Do you even know what a strawman argument is, or do you just spend too much time on /pol/?

Please explain the strawman. Also, people who use the names of fallacies for argument's sake are textbook pseuds.

>9755585
I'm too lazy to wrangle butthurt autists for free. if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be arguing with people. do your own homework. not even giving you a (you).

>>9755585
Not him but where in his post does he make a suggestion that you said he gave in order to make his argument look bad? Isn't that a textbook example of a straw man argument?

>>9755612
Really have no idea what you're attempting to say but yeah that was definitely a strawman

>>9755441
Great quote! You should drop these more frequently.

>>9755432
OP you are going to make this thread great again.

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>>9755432
>>9755464
>>9755560
>>9755580
samefag

>>9755432
Agree as long as we are able to bash plebs

>>9755432
True. And it takes attention from the worse problem at hand - stormshilling: >>9755441

>>9756654


>pleb detected

>>9755441
>>9755458
1&2pbp

>>9755432
I totally agree.

About the 'brutal honesty'; You can also get your point across without being a massive prick. And if not, maybe you should try more often.

>>9755432
I agree OP. I respond constructively where I can. In fact, the possibility that I can say something useful is the only thing that prompts me to post. When I say something negative I do so with a degree of openness to make sure I'm not just being an asshole, but I simply don't shitpost. I'm not the only one, don't mistake the
selective posting for absence.

Most of the anons on /lit/ interpret even a modicum of respect/propriety for weakness. That's a self-conscious and defensive assessment, and it won't simply go away. All you can do is lead by example.

>>9755458
autism

>>9755432
I totally feel you man. The majority of /lit/ has an attitude when asked a question. There's no reason everyone needs to be so rude. I understand the angle of receiving brutal honesty but it doesn't need to be so mean spirited. Most of /lit/ would rather circle-jerk about things they know the board hates (milk and honey, John Green) rather than actually putting in the effort to make thoughtful contributions. If you want to see what's wrong with this board look what happens whenever a booktuber is posted. Like seriously what kind of a person just does a witch-hunt like that. Maybe these YouTubers are reviewing YA fiction but who gives a fuck at least they're reading. It's honestly completely pathetic and only speaks for the awfulness these neckbeards hold inside themselves. You'll see a post explaining how Nietzche isn't meant to by everyone and then we get mad at people for reading YA? I generally just ignore the frequent racism, rudeness and sexism that's latent on this board and i really don't believe the existence of these things on this board can be denied. There are posters who feel as we do but honestly I think the anonymity here makes changing this much too much of a challenge. Perhaps there is a better board out there who knows.

>>9755544
i love being able to tell what a newfag someone is when they get caught by the word filter f.a.m.alam

>>9756745
to add to this i would argue that a great deal of the so-called polemics are never done in good faith which is why aruments don't go anywhere because it's about egotistucal point-scoring instead of actually trying to leave the argment with a better understanding

>>9755458
Yeah in agree with this guy. Couldn't have said it better.

>>9756863
Yeah, except "brutal honesty" isn't the problem, nor does it happen. Honesty implies some level of truth or revealing something. But here It's usually derision for derision's sake. "Honesty" is a cop out for being a thick-headed asshole.

>>9755467
Come back when you're 15

>>9756849

Agreed

>>9756804
i feel you

>>9755432
ffffffffffffaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggg

>And yet, the vast majority of posts are incredibly rude.
Yes, I come here to insult people and discuss science fiction. If you want a circle-jerk you can check out Reddit or Goodreads.

>>9756804
The solution is to ban booktuber threads.

>>9755464
>jordan peterson, and nick land
Those guys appeal to completely different types of people.
You're probably the butt of one of Sam Hyde's better jokes about classes of people who do embarrassing and retarded things but feel no shame despite being retarded.

>>9756879
Hey guys, check out this fag

>>9755458
Post your writing.

>>9757519
in general, the solution is stronger moderation

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>>9756879
are you lying to us or contradicting yourself like a retard?

>>9756804
>I generally just ignore the frequent racism, rudeness and sexism
you do not belong on 4chan. stupid nigger faggot.

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>>9757894
>wahhhh someone was mean to me gib me safe space
the solution is to grow up.

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>>9756804
>virtue signaling
>anonymously

>>9757515
This. Websites exist for what you want already. Why do you want 4chan to be like everything else?

>>9758171
Not what I meant. I think conversations about /pol/ ideologies have a place here, as long as they remain in the general ballpark of literature/philosophy. Total irrelevancies should be removed.

>>9758196
such as this meta-thread?

>>9757515
>science fiction
Literally kill yourself

>>9758306
not him but what do you read?

>>9758189

I'm as interested in a bunch of fragile ego assholes as I am a circlejerk. Both are shit and both are unnecessary.

Assholes who learn a bit of good faith. That's a possibility that only 4chan can provide, as unlikely as that currently stands.

>>9758171
>>9758182
Afraid of the liberal boogeyman. You're not certain enough of yourself so you act certain about everyone else.

>anonymous virtue signalling

Isn't your joke that it's a contradiction in terms? If virtue signalling doesn't work anonymously, perhaps it's not virtue signalling.

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>>9758831
>Afraid of the liberal boogeyman.
Afraid of the liberal boogeyman accusing boogeyman because neither of the quoted posts said anything about politics. Grow up and stop bitching because you aren't getting your way.

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>>9757515

>Yes, I come here to insult people and discuss science fiction.
>and discuss science fiction.

You insult yourself with this abject plebery.

>>9758831
>I want 4chan to be a place where people are nice to each other
>I know, I'll insult everyone until they are nice to me!

>>9758852
>safe space
>virtue signalling

The use of these terms makes sense of my response to them.

See this is another problem besides the fact that you're being a wanker. You're also not even reading the posts. On a literature forum. Good job.

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>>9758866
not him but what do you read?

>>9758870
>safe space + virtue signalling = bipartisan politics
??? grow up, stop relying on straw man arguments.

>wahhhh be nice to me or I'll be mean to you wahhhh
child logic

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>>9758873

Only the best.

Literature died after Nael imo. Everything else is puffed-up; ephemeral.

>>9758868
My "insults" are prescriptive admonitions anon. I'm happy to discuss them reasonably. Can you honestly not tell the difference? I'm not simply name-calling.

It's a bit sad that you're trying to turn the logic against me. Isn't pointless brutality exactly what you stand for? Surely the "insulting" part of my comments should be the most palatable for you.

>>9758881
Holy shit, the point is that my response was only as political as theirs was. I responded in kind. Get over yourself.

I really hope you don't actually think like you're comments suggest. What are you reading at the moment anon? Written anything lately?

>>9758886

>My "insults" are prescriptive admonitions anon.

Not that anon but it's kinda funny that you're posting lines like this when just last post you were trying to call some other guy a wanker. Really flips a neuron switch.

>>9758895
LITERALLY where is your argument at all? You think meme arrows make you look smart? I have a Masters in Computer Science and had electives in the humanities, kid, what about you? I blasted everyone else in the humanities classes out of the water, with my superior emotional intellect, what about you? I told them and showed them how religion was degenerative, autocratic and the vilest of mankind's creations, what about you? Can you convince anyone of anything?

>>9758903

Anon you're s-scaring me. Please.

>>9758886
literally nothing but defensive whining in this post. it's obvious you haven't been here more than a month.

>>9758891
you're the one who brought up politics, dude. >your response is just as relevant to unicorns as mine was!!1!
^ this is what you sound like

>>9758903
>>9758912

I want to believe that this rant was a Navy Seal tier bit and not the delusions of an absolute egotist dunce, but ~who knows!~

>>9758903
where is your argument in this post? I only see whining and an embarrassing argument from authority.

>>9755432
>and made to feel like some sort of asshole for finishing a long novel.
I too hate this kind of thing that's become all too common, you spend hours doing something you enjoy and someone dismisses it with a single sentence. Like I get that personal enjoyment is the point but it does not feel good when you try and spread that enjoyment and someone trivializes it.

Anyway, good post, but appealing to people's sense of decency doesn't work on this site. They feel no shame about what they do and they can't be disincentivized by moderation either because there's no punishment on this site.

>>9758895

This is not hypocritical, at least not in the way you think it is.

There's a line between pointless insults, and an insult couched in an answerable comment.

There's also a line between anons being respectful to each other (and that does not have to mean a circlejerk) and some anons desperately trying to be polite to other anons who can only get a kick out of being unnecessarily callous and calling it a virtue.

Tell me anon, was he being a wanker?

I'm not arguing for some sanitized space, I'm arguing for a little deference and good faith. I'm sorry if you think the anon I called a wanker deserved better. I think he made it explicitly clear that he didn't.

>>9758921
>wahhhh gib me safe space mods wahhhhh
holy shit so many babies that don't belong here.

>>9758925
>being mean is only okay when I do it!!1!
>OMG LIBERL BOOGEYMAN
fucking baby.

>>9758925

You're an amusing little sophist, aren't you?

Getting in some nice practice time eh? Gotta keep those sweet skillz keen and sharp.

>>9758918
You're not being very intelligent.

>>9758933
>reduced to pure shit throwing
looks like I was being a little too intelligent with that analogy.

>>9758927
>>9758929
>>9758930
>>9758936

You all think digging in your heels is the same as proving yourselves correct.

>>9758953

You're a young sophist who likes to ramble and henpeck in the most banal of ways in the hopes that it'll improve his demagogue game irl. You don't even see how threadbare your exchange has become and yet you persist out of stubborn insistence. You like to wear people down through sheer banality.

Seen your kind around here a thousand times, lad. Jog on.

>>9758969
Well I don't know anything about you other than you think you know a lot about me.

>>9758969
And for the record I do see how threadbare it has become. Sometimes I feel like continuing with it for a bit and see if anything happens even when it devolves. It didn't devolve because of me, I'm pretty certain.

>>9758976

I don't know a lot, no. But I do know that much.

Don't try to become professionally tedious, mate. For what?

>>9758969
>seen your kind, kiddo.

>>9755458
Hugboxing is as pointless as edgespacing. Covering the majority of your criticism in edge is as retarded as hiding the majority of it in compliments. 4chan is closer to that golden mean than reddit or what have you, but claiming that acting edgy is all that's required to create an environment as noble as one of ubiquitous brutal honesty is almost as autistic as my phrasing.

The brutal honesty you want is different from what you seem to be advocating for.

>>9758987
What else am I supposed to say? Every comment is shutting down discussion. I either pursue, or I leave. I usually leave. Other than that I can only apologize that I don't have the genius necessary to unlock this exchange in a colourful way.

Don't worry though, I won't be leaving this thread feeling insecure because of the wonderfully profound commentary I've been receiving.

>>9758999
More meme arrows. Your not smart.

>>9759002
I totally agree.

See the first part of:>>9758831

>>9758953
what? where is your proof that you are correct?

I proved however that one of your arguments was a bunch of crap, here >>9758918

>>9759002
who's saying edgy posts are required? why the constant straw man in this thread?

if you want people to say nice things to you, say things worthy of kindness. this is reality here, not the ideal, this is how things work. if you don't like it, fuck off.

>>9759043
I'm not saying that anyone's saying edgy posts are required. I'm mentioning edgy posts because they are here. I disagree with someone saying the board is already going the correct direction since that's implying they're accepting the edgy autism.

>if you want people to say nice things to you, say things worthy of kindness.
I agree. My post doesn't contradict that. I'm expanding on your opinion by saying "if you don't want people to shit on you, don't post shit." Put differently, being edgy shouldn't be the default reaction.

You can blame me for not phrasing it in a more straightforward way, but you get the difference between "if you want people to say nice things to you, say things worthy of kindness" and "if you don't want people to shit on you, don't post shit."
What I'd like /lit/ to work towards is an environment where both of those statements are, well, adhered to, as brutally as your honesty requires.

>>9758369
Philosophy, critical theory, theology, art & culture (mostly music), pop-sci, rarely contemporary and modern literature and poetry.

>>9758182
If you think I'm virtue signaling you must be seriously insecure

>>9759097
>"if you want people to say nice things to you, say things worthy of kindness" and "if you don't want people to shit on you, don't post shit."
this is what all of 4chan is already so there is literally nothing to complain about.

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>>9759153

>>9755432

I can't tell if OP is being sincere or if he's just increasing the hilarity of the insults by placing them in a sincere context. Either way I lol'd hard.

>>9755458
The ability to be honest is not a pass to be an asshole because it gets your willy hard.

>>9755432
Thank you OP, that's something I wanted to say for a long time. There's a difference between the honesty allowed by anonymity and the fact of being an asshole for free, only to feel validated or god knows what

And to the angry dudes: if you truely enjoy this kind of social interactions, please go play to some online video game. It'll be cathartic and all and you'll even get to insult people !

The worst people on this board are the people trying to "raise it up," to increase the number of "quality posts." Are you seriously that sad and pathetic that you think that spending your time talking about literature on an anime imageboard is something worth doing? Do you seriously think you're not wasting your time? If you want to learn about literature, READ you idiot. Discuss it with educated people, not random teenagers on the internet. /lit/ is a place to let off steam, an environment where we can be free to be as negative as we want, where we can let out our frustrations on the world for once in our life. It is recreational, NOT educational, and you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Do you feel accomplished after your having your cringy "intellectual" conversation with another undergrad on the internet? Do you feel like you got something done, that you progressed? Because you didn't. I come to /lit/ over other places because it has a subject matter that I am interested in and that I am comfortable in, and a sense of bitter humor that I love. If you want to learn about literature, READ. If you want to let off steam in a literature-themed environment, then shitpost on /lit/.

>>9760596
what are you, the arbiter of what passes and what doesn't?

>>9760728
No. I'm just saying that you should expect to be called out for being edgy for the sake of being edgy.

>>9760733
jokes on you. I don't even like madoka magica or re:zero.

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I'm worried for you if you look for social validation within an anonymous context anon
You need to rise above that

>>9760858
nice bait, this isn't about social recognition its about having a community that doesn't behave like high schoolers

>>9755432
The rudeness and snooty hipster levels of smug is the reason I stay away from this fucking board.

I love books, but I don't love talking about them with snooty assholes who keep their head shoved up their own ass.

I know this board is the exact place I would hang out on 4chan if you guys had a better attitude. I mean, even pol/ thinks you went too far when you fucked with that girl on youtube. You are a truly awful person if someone who admires Nazis and dreams of the day of the race war, thinks you are really cruel.

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>>9759153
I'm the guy you called retarded and I also read philosophy, critical theory, and theology. I just don't discuss them here unless I'm drunk.

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>>9760966
>community
There's that fucking word again.

>>9761979
>There's that fucking word again.
What is wrong with that exactly? We are a community in every sense of the word. Are you trying to deny that?

Honestly, better overcritize than let this community be taken over by harry potters and twligihts

>>9762529
If 4chan were an early civilization we would've all died ages ago.

>>9762638
god damn, you couldn't have said it any better

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>>9755432
>a gentleman
Smells like euphoria.

>But right off the bat, he was harshly criticized for not giving a more "literary" review
I'm with you in the sense that this place needs more quality interaction. No board in this chan was ever any good but sure things are going down hill.
At the same time I don't think a more traditional approach suits this place. I find awesome that I can hear all types of opinions ranging from jokes to in deep discussions. But, unfunny, rude and uninspired shitposting is filling the board.

>Lets keep shitposting and quality posting at least in balance.

>>9761963
Newfag here. What happened with the girl on YouTube?

>>9760858
>projecting this much

>>9763889
This board harassed a girl who reviewed YA books on YouTube so much that she decided to delete her account.

>>9762529
>We are a community in every sense of the word
No we fucking aren't. We don't eat together. I fucking hate almost all of you and I hope I never have to share a square mile with any of you. I come here to hurl abuse at faggots who think that the Internet is a supplement or a replacement for real life.

>>9764320
This
This fucking guy right here
Sharing common values doesn't make a community. I love the humour of 4chan and the fact that any attempt to better the quality of the posting on here will always result in at least one guy telling him to fuck off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVygqjyS4CA
You're ALL different. One guy will say "I'm not!"

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>>9755432
>Why are we putting people down for reading novels? Why are we putting people down for wanting to better themselves?
>reading novels
>better themselves
What the fuck is going on ITT

Elitism and toxicity are the only things preserving the minuscule of quality discussion this board still possesses.

>>9764903
is this bait

>>9755432
I think you're arguing against a strawman here.

>>9755432
I'm new to this board, to the point of neiither having been part of nor experienced this to a larger extent, but I will keep it in mind for my future posting.

>>9758921

So then go post on reddit.
Why would you come here if you can't handle the bantz

>it doesn't feel good when someone trivializes my book completion

Who are we, your mom? No one fucking cares about you here dude. If you have something actually interesting to say yeah you'll get some shitposts but you'll also get a discussion. If you're the guy posting "Hey guys I just finished Crime and Punishment what did you think of Raskolnikov" then you deserve to be mocked.

>>9756832
Not him, but I actually browsed this site for about 4 years before I found out about the word filters since those words just aren't really important parts of my vernacular.
About 6 months ago I used tee bee aitch for the first time since the filters were implemented (whenever that was) and replied to my own post something which came out as "holy shit, desu autocorrects to desu". Of course I got called out on it, like 4 or 5 (You)s calling me a newfag. I was so embarrassed I closed the tab and didn't browse this board for like a week.

>>9765205

It's unfortunate that you came back.

>>9765237
Why do you say that?

>>9756832
>he doesn't know people unironically type out those words like desu and senpai
you are the newfag, newfag

>>9755476
Your analysis of the situation is just plain wrong.

>>9755490
Rudeness is how we filter out the normies on 4chan. Ironically it is by using words like faggot, nigger and telling each other to commit suicide that we manage to have more productive discussions than on other sites where OP would feel comfortable.

>>9765816
what a load

>>9756737
If you want 4chan to be reddit why don't you go on Reddit?
Faggot.

>>9765843
First day on the site?

>>9764899
So reading Shakespeare makes no positive impact on one's life? Good point.

Kys

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8KB, 225x225px

While I appreciate the harshness of 4chan culture this issue really shined through recently with the autodidact general thread. It died at 120 posts, everyone in that thread was helpful and wanted to share in their experiences and adventures through learning a subject but not a whole lot of people posted or participated, partly because I think they were scared others would just make fun of them.

Don't get me wrong, it's fun to learn about lifting, cars, cooking, painting miniatures, drawing, etc while people are calling you a faggot and to kill yourself. I've done it and I've been able to participate when those subjects come up in day to day conversations thanks to 4chan, but it was really just sad that the thread died because there weren't enough people willing to participate without being a shitposter.

>>9766168

There weren't a lot of posters because the autodidact threads are always boring and filled with naive idiots who don't even understand the extent of their own undertaking and probably have given up on it before the thread died.

>>9766187
> naive idiots who don't even understand the extent of their own undertaking
That's 99% of Internet discussion.