Post-modernism

hoh boy

>>9438187
Nothing has a value.
Moral is just a opinion.
All women are beautiful because aestethics are also just an opinion.
ayyylmao

File: STA1710FOUNTAIN_324200k.jpg (16KB, 580x386px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 580x386px

Imagine thinking that this is as valuable as Pietá.

Everything is subjective. Everything an be deconstructed.

>>9438191
>All women are beautiful because aestethics are also just an opinion.
None are beautiful

>>9438192
Dada is modernism.
>""""""valuable"""""" art
Fuck off, underage tard.

>>9438192
You do understand that the purpose of this piece is to point out exactly what you're saying.

Essentially
"Fuck the burgeoise" - Modernists
"Fuck us" - Post-modernists

an anti-teleological tendency within epistemology, the attack on the ‘metaphysics of presence’, a general attenuation of feeling, the collective chagrin and morbid projections of a post-War generation of baby boomers confronting disillusioned middle-age, the ‘predicament’ of reflexivity, a group of rhetorical tropes, a proliferation of surfaces, a new phase in commodity fetishism, a fascination for images, codes and styles, a process of cultural, political or existential fragmentation and/or crisis, the ‘de-centring’ of the subject, an ‘incredulity towards metanarratives’, the replacement of unitary power axes by a plurality of power/discourse formations, the ‘implosion of meaning’, the collapse of cultural hierarchies, the dread engendered by the threat of nuclear self-destruction, the decline of the university, the functioning and effects of the new miniaturised technologies, broad societal and economic shifts into a ‘media’, ‘consumer’ or ‘multinational’ phase, a sense (depending on who you read) of ‘placelessness’ or the abandonment of placelessness (‘critical regionalism’) or (even) a generalised substitution of spatial for temporal coordinates

No, no one can, since postdernism is a meme itself.

Postmodernism is a trend in literature, art and architecture.
Postmodernity is the logic of 21st century society, e.g everything is cloaked in commercialism, commodification and irony.

A TV show can make a show about how TV shows are shit and it will be popular.

>>9438201
People who start their sentences off "you do understand" deserve to have their pryed open and be forced their wife and children get violently raped and murdered. Pls word your sentences in a less irritating way.

File: 62mHs.png (534KB, 720x404px) Image search: [Google]

534KB, 720x404px

>Can somebody explain post-modernism to me without memeing?

>>9438226
People who care more about how something is said than what is said need to kys themselves.

File: 1490607567503.jpg (38KB, 599x449px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 599x449px

>>9438226
> complains about someones use of words
> leaves words out of his post.

File: 1489660902507.jpg (226KB, 630x658px) Image search: [Google]

226KB, 630x658px

>>9438245
How something is said is what is said

No memes this time:

If you want to understand postmodernism you have to understand modernism, positivism and critical theory first.
It's essentially claiming that the modernists are wrong.

>>9438250
Dear God, just kys yourself already, brainlet.

File: 1492992013383s.jpg (5KB, 250x157px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 250x157px

>>9438254
>capitalising god

>>9438253
What do modernists believe?

a radical questioning of the subject, in order to gain insights into how civilisation got to the point of ww2 and the cold war. you can extend this to 9/11 and the war of terror as well. the most common metaphor used to do this is "the game". Lyotard builds off of Wittgenstein to understand knowledge, not as object but a subjective order placed onto the objective world. For example, with the rise of computing, society is often envisioned as a network with knowledge itself being reduced "bits" or a series fact claims. Where as before you had two modes of knowledge, the specialist and the philosopher, with one claiming the a clear delineation between known and unknown and the other claiming everything is unknown. we now live is a society where everything is known, communication breaks down with "bits" being traded in a series of unending claims to truth. Another big piece was Bourdieu's Field Theory, where structural power is charted by distinction. He uses the metaphor of a football field, there are social facts (the touchlines) and social rules (red/yellow cards and a referee) which limit agency and predict behaviours (habitus), positions (privileges: Ivy League education, inherited wealth etc.) which predict ability to effect the game (a striker can score a lot better than a midfielder or a defender can).

so yeah, pomo sees knowledge and society as a game which we create and play. irony is when you "know" the rules but act accordingly anyway. DFW would say we know junk entertainment is bad for us but we don't care because it's so satisfying. So we create a game around excuses why its okay to damage ourselves and society.

>>9438226
Please proofread your own writing before posting. This is horrible and awfully ironic.

>>9438187
mostly post WWII expressions of thought and art.

Can be both something that comes after the era of "modernism" and keeping closer to those traditions but merely being after it and/OR it can be the reaction of modernism that a lot of post modernists have i.e being skeptical of it

hope this helps

>>9438201
You do realize that the purpose of my point was to point out exactly what are you saying?

File: postmodern_architecture_explained.jpg (104KB, 820x400px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 820x400px

I was gonna type something but it would be around three posts and I gotta get some sleep. Have a picture.

>>9438191
>>9438195
>>9438206
>>9438208

>>>/reddit/

File: 1488540873736.jpg (177KB, 852x581px) Image search: [Google]

177KB, 852x581px

>>9438410

>>9438191
That's modernism, dipshit

>>9438270
I'd recommend Faulkner.

Absalom, Absalom is about as close as you could get to pomo style without being actually pomo

Pre-modernism: going to an elite school
Modernism: going to an elite school and making sure everyone you meet knows that you did
Postmodernism: going to an elite school and making sure everyone you meet knows that going to an elite school is not important

>>9438187
A bunch of crazed ideologues try to cast doubt/blame everything except their ideology as to why they are being btfo constantly.

so far we're 0/31

let's see how /lit/does in the second half

File: 2cpq2cy.png (23KB, 113x215px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 113x215px

>tfw no post-modern bf to be insincere with

>>9438187
The guy who created the Simpsons likes Captain Beefheart and Pynchon, he actually got Pynchon to do a cameo on the show
Why is he so cool and you not, /lit/?

>>9439110

HAHA EPIC WIN BRO

>>9438187
"memeing"

>>9439136
?

>>9438416
Post-modern architecture is a disaster and a shitfest.

>>9439158
Just like post-modernism.

Eugh

Literary post-modernism is widely defined as an artistic movement in which artists seek to involve their audience on a metatextual level, such that the experience of reading itself becomes a core element of the message or premise of the work.

>>9438187
Postmodernism is a Jewish ideology which seeks to deconstruct Western society and its foundations, from its ethics to its familial structure. It is trash tier.

File: tips stahlhelm.jpg (67KB, 476x717px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 476x717px

>>9440131

Its an umbrella term to desribe a whole era of art and philosophy. It stems from existentialism and perspectivism, it largely revolves around the idea that truth is multidimensional and multifaceted. Theres varying degrees of post modernist beliefs, some assert theres no truth or meaning at all, but generally post modernism is just a way of acknowledging that no truth is "ultimate"

>>9440096
>reading a work as a premise for reading a work
that's like post-metatextual

>>9440131
What is wrong with deconstructing Western society?

>>9440256
It's harmful to the people living in it

>>9440261
Western society is harmful to the people who arent living it (i.e. the majority)

>>9438198
why are you so angry. it's only the internet man.

>>9440115
I dont understand. What does the circle represent?

>>9440273
That's their problem, not ours

>>9440302
>mug some guy on the street
>"its his problem not mine!"

>>9440261
>Oh no! My view might get *gasp* CRITICIZED!

If people don't like western society being deconstructed then they don't have to pick up a post-modern or critical theory book in their lives. Just don't spoil a movement that could potentially produce interesting and elucidating works for those who want to explore western civ.

>>9440261
here come the brainlet incapable of understanding the fine writings of postmodern philosophers

>>9440326
>elucidating
>critical theory
are you for real?

>>9440462
Yes.

>>9440472
Gonna have to assume you haven't actually read any of it if you think that.

>>9438187
It's almost like no one in here actually has any idea what postmodernist philosophy literature is about.

Postmodernism:
>Is the state of post-war late-capitalism
>The referents of signifieds have been lost
>Perpetual wheel of meaning ellusive meaning, as nothing can be traced back to its original in any authentic way.
>Contemporary media culture is an example of this
>We exist as a culmination of strange, ill-defined signs, and know ourselves only through fractured correspondences and regurgitated, stale narratives. Which plays somewhat into the whole postmodern "identity politics" thing, and explains why "identity politics" is so often associated with "postmodernism"

Post modern literature and film:
>Plays with multiplicity and indistinctness of meaning, using pastiche, parody, obfuscative allusions, merging the literary (or high art) with the genre (or low brow/pop art), using meta-textual structures, integrating paratext, and generally highlighting, either through form or content or both, the duplicitous nature of meaning in either literature or society.

The obvious example of postmod art is Andy Warhol's campbell soup. It was referencing the quintessential modernist art piece, Duchamp's urinal, but it was showing a consumer good, in the way of an advertisement.
Advertisements, corporatism and mass media are strongly associated with postmodern aesthetics.

>>9440300
the object.

>>9440614
Sorry I should have said that postmodernity is the state of post-war late-capitalism. Postmodernism is the philosophical movement/label.

Postmodernism is about post-modernity.

>>9440516
You've assumed wrongly then friendo.

File: C_Data_Users_Alex_AppData_Local_Microsoft_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_fat fuck with glasses.png.jpg (41KB, 350x475px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 350x475px

who is objectively the best postmodernist philosopher and why is it baudrillard?

>>9440670
Oh yeah what amazing points does Derrida or anyone else make about anything except post-modernism.
>hegel is post-modern
>cable news is post-modern
>gangster rap is post-modern
>9/11 is post-modern
>The Matrix is post-modern
Funny isn't it. For a movement people think is a huge deconstruction project all they actually do is add whatever new thing comes along to the construction of post-modernism.

https://vimeo.com/17431354

>>9440731
danny de vito?

File: beasts-manga-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-third-reich-3513544.png (126KB, 500x516px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 500x516px

Is this post-modern?

>>9440273
Sell your organs.

>>9438739
No it's not

Weaponized Judaism.

>>9440115
pretty accurate

File: tired-pepe[1].jpg (9KB, 242x242px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 242x242px

>>9440614

>>9440622
>late-capitalism
You guys have been going on about 'late' capitalism for 115 years.
It's possible it might not be just a phase.
Unlike your undergraduate postmodernist posing! Amirite HONK HONK

>>9439040
There have been accurate definitions

>>9440261
Is it harmful to point out how harmful Western society is?

>>9438191
Thats nihlism you dipshit.

>>9440614
>Which plays somewhat into the whole postmodern "identity politics" thing

It completely undermines it.

>The obvious example of postmod art is Andy Warhol's campbell soup.

Postmodern art in its heyday of the late 70s to 80s finds better examples in appropriation art, people like Sherrie Levine, Richard Prince, Cindy Sherman, Barbara Kruger. Andy Warhol's work is a kind of a transitional work because of its reliance on the 'art object' rather than systems. As such Duchamp's Fountain is a kind of proto-postmodernism and the quintessential modernist artists were the Abstract Expressionists (by way of Picasso, Mondrian, etc.). It was these artists and their artistic project of universality and form that anything that can be described as postmodernist is in reaction to, from Minimalism to Conceptualism and yes Pop Art as well

>>9441899
>115 years
Try since the 1960s

>>9438187
Skepticism towards metanarratives. Any postmodern movement basically rejects any system that pretends to give a totalizing explation of anything - political systems are the most obvious totalizing systems and their failure is one of the main reasons of the birth of postmodernism.

Art developed on this criticism to grand narratives. Philosophy, on the other hand, is more controversial, because philosophical postmodernism is potentially self-destructive, although some postmodern philosophers may insist they are not building a system but developing a sort of therapeutic writing, very much in the sense the latter Wittgenstein wrote PI.

I wrote a short divulgative essay on postmodernism when I was in college. I'd post it but it is in Spanish.

>>9438187
http://www.stephenhicks.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/hicks-ep-full.pdf

basically, everything post-modernists do is a parody of tradition, but it has no real value

>>9441945
Sombart in 1902 anon

>>9441369
yeah, it is.

File: vlcsnap-2014-01-05-13h29m41s144.png (1MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1280x720px

>>9441196
yeah

>>9438410
jej

>>9438250
>me on the left

>>9438207
This.

File: captainMetaphysicsPostmodern1.png (713KB, 1000x1510px) Image search: [Google]

713KB, 1000x1510px

Can't believe nobody has posted this yet.

File: captainMetaphysicsPostmodern2.png (655KB, 1000x1500px) Image search: [Google]

655KB, 1000x1500px

>>9442370

>>9440310
But western society doesn't exist at the expense of other societies (except when countries like America attack/invade other countries to support our interests), whereas mugging someone on the street does come at there expense.

>>9438187

>Nothing is sacred

4chan is the literal embodiment pf post-modernism

>>9438187
The retarded son of the sophists.

File: The_nihilist.jpg (73KB, 800x478px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 800x478px

>>9441931

Yeah, but postmodernism transmutes into nihilism which becomes hedonism in bestial humans.

It's not a coincidemce that both the Nihilists and Kant, the axis of modern and postmodern thinking, are German.

Germany is a petridish of what happens when you fuck with the dials of leadership in a society built around strict order. Women's "liberation" is an experiment of what happens when men are collectively guided by women to give into a worse nature and bite the apple.

>>9442374

Why does meaninglessness result from everything being context dependent?

>>9443025

It doesn't that's a dumb interpretation.

It just means there is no objective meaningfulness, what you find meaningful is going to depend on who you are and what context you're coming from.

>>9438192
it's infinitely more valuable.

>>9438187
the fact of donald trump being a president of US is post-modernism. only in post-modernist world this is possible.

File: DFW.jpg (1MB, 1601x850px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1601x850px

>>9438187
Everything isn't and nothing is

>>9440261
>i don't like it because it's bad
amazing

I cannot stand those types of images with the three buildings or drawings or whatever, espically when people actually use them to define a literary term

>>9440273
We're hitting levels of life-denial that shouldn't be even possible

>>9443346
plees eggsplain

>>9443321
>Someone ran a really bad political campaign, forgetting how the electoral system works, so my ideology is proven to be correct

>>9443370
>>proven to be temporarily correct*

>>9440614
>We exist as a culmination of strange, ill-defined signs,
this is such a pomo way to put it
how can postmodernists deny that they are relativists when their phenomenological roots are so strong they don't distinguish between the way things are experienced and the way things are?
"we exist as a culmination of strange, ill-defined signs" may be correct as a matter of phenomenology but there are lines here that shouldn't be blurred

File: ff.jpg (44KB, 317x475px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 317x475px

>>9440731
because he btfo other post-structuralists and showed why none of anyone's shit matters anymore

>>9443308

"Everything is context dependent! You can never escape it, there is no ground to meaning."

Everything is context dependent
therefore
there is no ground to meaning.

Why is groundlessness to meaning the result of the contextual dependence of everything?

Postmodernist philosophy is basically looking at the first half of 20th century and thinking "wow, those guys sure were retarded"

>>9442937
Postmodernism transmutes into class struggle which is far from meaningless

>>9443588
[[]] Postmodernist philosophy was now basically seeing the principle of the 20th century code and ratiocinative "wow, those guys sure were unenlightened" O friend farewell with your anglo eyes

>>9443553

No, "Everything is context dependant" does NOT mean there is no ground to meaning.

It means there is no objective ground to meaning inherent in a thing, the ground to meaning comes from the context then thing is in and who is assessing that meaning.

Basically the grounds to meaning come from outside a thing, not from the thing itself.

(But those outside things that give it meaning themselves are only given meaning by outside things, which are themselves only given meaning by outside things in an endless chain of dependency where everything leans on the things around it for meaning...)

File: Galanter_04-mod-vrs-post.png (28KB, 966x782px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 966x782px

This kind of gets at it (except for I strongly disagree with the graphs saying that postmodernism = no truth)

>>9438187
postmodern art and literature:

Prior to Postmodernism, there was Modernism. Modernism latched onto the trend of Modernity and developed its ideas from there. Modernity is the unstoppable advance of globalization, technological innovation, and economic development. 1,000 years ago, everybody lived in villages and died in the village they were born in. 500 years ago rich people could travel from London to the "New World" and back again in a couple of years. 100 years ago, most people with some cash to burn could circumnavigate the globe. Today, I can be in Singapore tomorrow, if need be. This made Modernist artists highly optimistic about the future.
As access to information became more widely available, Modernists theorized, people in general would become more educated and the truth would be easier to discern. This attitude can be seen in James Joyce's Dubliners. In the early stories, people communicate through speech, and eye-witness accounts are taken for granted. In The Dead, however, Gabriel's remark that "the newspapers were right" as it begins to snow is the culmination of this process. In Araby, its is the train (a symbol of modernity) that leads the protagonist toward his eventual epiphany. In a Modernist work, technology is the hand that pulls down the curtains concealing truth, justice, love, and a better world.
Modernists placed a great deal of emphasis on experimentation. Picasso's cubism, American jazz, the prose of Virginia Woolf, Arnold Shoenberg's experiments in tonality, and the verse of Ezra Pound and T.S. Eliot were all major breaks from established form. One of the goals of this experimentation was to gain new perspectives in order to establish a more cogent picture of the world. James Joyce's stream of consciousness and Picasso's attempts to paint subjects from multiple angles are successful examples of this venture. The psychoanalysis of Sigmund Freud, recent major advancements in physics, and the development of still photography, audio recording, and motion pictures were heavily influential in this vein.
(I promise to start talking about postmodernism already in my next post)

>>9444777
However, the 20th Century was not particularly kind to the Modernist's theses, and by the 1920s, even most modernists had become somewhat skeptical of their own ideas, (see Hemingway, Fitzgerlald, Picasso, Stein, Metzinger, Dos Passos, etc). Many modernists, seeing the death and devastation wrought by technological advancement through World War I, the Spanish Influenza of 1919, the Great Depression, and the Second World War, and fearing a continuation of the pattern through nuclear detente, began to question the notion that technological advancement was actually benevolent. The fact that advertising and political propaganda were so easily exploited, and the notion that photographs could be staged or airbrushed and Hollywood effects could be faked in a studio lot cast much doubt on the hope in a single, universally-accepted picture of reality emerging from a thorough examination of reality. Advancements in quantum mechanics, the development of chaos theory, and the rising popularity of post-stucturalism as a model of semiotics threw a major monkey-wrench on the naturalistic and optimistic origins of modernism.
Postmodernists get off on questioning meaning and narratives. The TV series Seinfield is, in its own words, "A show about nothing." Authors like William Gaddis, Vladimir Nabokov, and Thomas Pynchon call their own plot elements into question with through theme (conspiracies and criminal art-forgery), character (unreliable narrators), and complexity. Artists such as Andy Warhol satirized, parodies, and embraced celebrity culture and consumerism (see: "The factory"; "15 minutes of fame" etc.)
The sanctity of art was also called into question. The first to do this were the conceptualists and the dadaists. Marcel Duchamp's art, referenced here >>9438192 invoked the idea that art was what an artist called art. Piero Manzoni, following in Duchamp's footsteps, sold tins labelled "artists shit." The price tag was part of the piece. Each tin was sold for its weight in gold. Only one can has ever been opened. It contained a smaller can, which has never been opened. It's a deep, humourous work of art, both critical and metacritical. Black-out and white-out poetry, cut-up, outsider art, noise music, found-footage, found-sounds, and pop-art all built heavily on this basis. One work of music which explores the limits of what art is and is not to the extreme is American composer John Cage's work, 4:33, which is -- contrary to popular belief -- not four and a half minutes of silence, but rather 4 long pauses through which the performers (ideally an entire symphony) must pause, and in which ambient sound can be heard. If a performer accidentally drops his cello through the piece, or an audience member coughs, or a nuke is dropped -- that is part of the composition.

>>9444777
Postmodernism has a long and storied history as an art movement, and that history is still being written. However, just as modernism was called into question, people have been calling the premises, assumptions, and eventualities of postmodernism into question. Its cynicism and irony especially have been targets of heavy criticism to which many have responded. These responses, including New Sincerity and metamodernism, attempt either to abandon or alleviate the chronic ironic detachment which pervades postmodern art and literature. NS artists and metamodernists are thus attempting to grasp at genuine emotion and feeling which they feel is impossible under the constraints of postmodern art.

postmodern philosophy:

There is no postmodern philosophy. By this I mean that the (mainly French and mainly leftist) authors typically called "postmodern" -- Derrida, Foucault, Althusser, Deleuze, Guattari, Adorno, Habermas, Butler, Lacan, Fish, Sartre, Said, Heidegger, Fanon, Perniola, Beauvoir, Lyotard, Baudrillard, Eagleton, Jameson, Barthes, Heidegger, Marcuse, Merleau-Ponty, Benjamin, etc. -- never used the term to refer to themselves, and the charges leveled against them under the label are, with very few exceptions, unfounded. In fact, of the list that I just offered, only one has ever used the word "postmodernism" to refer to a doctrine of philosophical thought rather than an art movement. That was Lyotard.
Lyotard's "The Postmodern Condition" is mainly about science and broadly about epistemology. Following Ludwig Wittgenstein's language games, Lyotard lays out two epistemological mindsets. According to him, there is the "modern" mindset, where science is treated as a discourse or, more specifically, a language game. The object of science, philosophy, education, history, and even art and literature according to the modernist is the process of discovery, curiosity, creativity, learning, and teaching. To the postmodernist, philosophy is a tool for policy-makers, lawyers, and scientists. Science is a tool for doctors and engineers. In the "postmodern condition," everything is meaningless, hopeless, and there is no joy in discovery. When two spheres of knowledge interfere with one another, one must come to dominate the other and disprove it. Co-operation between two models of reality cannot take place. If a piece of knowledge or information is not useful, if a theory is no longer upheld, if a belief is sufficiently challenged, it is discarded and forgotten. Ideas, to the postmodernist, are only useful in advancing the purposes of -- whom, exactly? Religion? Governments? Corporations? Robot overlords? Postmodern philosophy, as originally described, is exemplified by Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Richard Dawkins, not Michel Foucault.

>>9444777
As far as the thinkers usually described as "postmodern", most (or at least the most commonly labelled), attain the moniker through their adherence to post-structuralism. Post-structuralism is an incredibly complex set of ideas, but they all boil down to a rejection or reaction to structuralism, an abandonment of the idea that there is a one-one correspondence between the signifier and the signified, and that the reader interprets the sign rather than the intentions of the author. It has nothing to do with moral relativism. It has nothing to do with a lack of universal truth. Authors such as Foucault and Derrida and Barthes and Baudrillard all took firm moral stances and believed in an objective reality. They simply understood, in Baudrillard's case, for example, that reality was obscured by the forces of power and capital, and that what we understood to be real was a simulacra of the real. An artificial strawberry flavour that contains no strawberries and comes from the anal glands of Canadian river-rats, but nonetheless is very chemically similar. A German restaurant at Epcot that makes tourists feel like they're really there. An image on a screen that draws you in. Hyperreality overtaking the real.
The post-structuralists and the postmodernists had a lot in common. They frequently reference each other. Post-structuralist ideas are influential among postmodern authors and artists. Postmodern art, such as that of Magritte, inspired a lot of thought among the post-structuralists. But the two movements are not the same.

>>9438418
>>>/tv/

>>9444786
wow you type fast

File: NCIS.jpg (10KB, 320x180px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 320x180px

>>9444845
That's cause I'm two people typing at once like in that that shitty scene in NCIS.

>>9439110
Because he created the Simpsons and we didn't.

Satan's new and hip scam, this scam as usual costs only your soul