Should these be made mandatory in every school around the world?

>>9097444
No.

Yes.

>>9097444
Yes.

...wait, no. Just no

>>9097444
gay pseuds: Marx, Adorno, Debord
Based Intellectuals: Sowell, Friedman, Pinochet, Steven Crowder

Yes, together with Uncle Tom's Cabin.

>>9097444
I don't know, should they? I haven't read any of them.

>>9097467
all leftists are gay

all right wingers are REAL men

>>9097444
Basic economics only.
There are better books about it but the you would confuse the worst of its detractors by having a black guy say it.

>>9097444
People keep recommending me Sowell's 'Basic Economics'. Is is good?

>>9097566
He's redpilled as fuck. Although I hate black people I respect his writings.

>>9097566
Mediocre. Read a proper textbook or, even better, read the original thinkers.

>>9097588
it is liked by right and left a like kys commie

>>9097588
>or, even better, read the original thinkers.
Could you make some specific recommendations?

>>9097569

>Although I hate black people I respect his writings.

How can you hate all black people if you respect what this one black man taught you?

Just stop posting you fuckin meme. And this is coming from a /pol/ poster too.

>>9097710
I don't respect him as a human being, but I respect the sentiments that he happened to express.

>Thomas Sowell Man Among My Mentor By Mark Jordan Koeff
What did she mean by this?

>>9097644
Classical economics:
The Wealth of Nations
On the Principles of Political Economy and Taxation
Das Kapital

Neoclassical economics:
Principles of Economics (Marshall)

Keynesian economics:
The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money

Neoclassical synthesis:
Economics (Samuelson)

Neoricardians:
Production of commodities by means of commodities

You should probably read about the lucas critique and a modern textbook too.

>>9097735
Retard.

>>9097797
Elaborate?

I always see this guy's quotes on facebook and maybe it's the lack of context but they illustrate him as some sort of retard. Is he as stupid as he sounds or are the admins to be blamed?

>>9097735

>I don't respect him as a human being

Taking this position makes you seem like you're the one who resents real world rationale in the end. You will choose to dehumanize a genuine black intellectual that has imparted real learning to you because he doesn't fit in the purview of your ideological bias. The stubbornness of it is completely divorced from any rationale.

You're not logically consistent.

>>9097834
Read the posts in this thread from the people that like him and reach your own conclusion.

>>9097848
The ideas that he expressed are abstract truths. The vehicle -- him -- through which they were uttered is disposable

>>9097855

You're too stupid to even realize that you were conversely making a case against racial bias in toto with that sophomoric quip.

Stop posting, you're pretty dumb.

>>9097895
>your dumb

not an argument

>>9097900

No, but the line above it is, you shook sped.

>>9097913
go back to /r/books, kid

>>9097913
Stop responding to the /pol/tard.

>>9097920

HAHAHA. You felt so stupid and ineffectual at the least critique of your position that you just gave up and started to meme about Reddit?

HAHAHA.

>>9097948
You are yet to present an argument, instead resorting to pointless name-calling. You're intellectually immature and you're clearly ruled by your emotions. Are you perchance a women?

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>>9097973

I like the way you're subconsciously reverting to a more passive aggressive role now whilst hypocritically trying to call someone else a woman. Do you typically act in a passive aggressive fashion when you're made to feel ridiculous? It's a very low energy tactic.

You have played every single post wrong so far and you're still trying to save face. Sad!

>>9098016
>still no argument

Also, my side supports Trump. Your side is cucked

>>9098016
>>9097973
there's this 8ch forum specifically for neckbeards called "classy" or something like that
they talk just like you guys, it's great

>>9098026

I support Trump. And I've already given you my argument:

>The ideas that he expressed are abstract truths. The vehicle -- him -- through which they were uttered is disposable
>>You're too stupid to even realize that you were conversely making a case against racial bias in toto with that sophomoric quip.

Address this lapse or stay prolapsed.

>>9098028

Fuck off, you board policing queef. Hide thread.

>>9097592
Yeah, everyone nowadays from the left to the centre-right loves to hear another neo-liberal Friedman disciple who unironically equates social welfare with slavery and wants to abolish the minimum wage.

Why the fuck are Americans so constantly enthralled by these people wanting to take advantage of the working and middle class? How many times does the Western World have to scream at you that you are a wealthy nation making your lives needlessly precarious and less wealthy by allowing these men tell you that your democratically elected government is the enemy, and not the unelected corporations that these men pander to? How many times can you be swayed by emasculating language like "nanny state" to disempower your government in pursuing policies that prevent capitalism from pushing a race to the bottom in wage rates, labour protections, and environmental considerations?

The economic philosophy of these men in the US has seen the stagnation of wages, evacuation of industry, widening income disparity, and a further debasement of the culture by essentially reducing everyone to thinking that perverse inequality is a virtuous natural order.

>>9098052
The white race is not disposable. There is no equivalence between the two races. If you'd taken the redpill instead of just pretending to like Trump, then maybe you'd of known

>>9098068
that's some good bait

>>9098062
t. entitled millenial who thinks he doesn't have to work for anything because he was raised on participation trophies and 'special snowflakes'.

besides socialism only works until you run out of other people's money

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>>9098068

If the really informed ethno-nationalists from /pol/ were to see this board they'd be angry with how pathetically you've tried to speak on their behalf because they'd see as plainly as I do that you're simply not very bright.

That's about all. Peace out.

>>9098085
>if someone disagrees with me he must surely be trolling

>>9098089
>If the really informed ethno-nationalists from /pol/

They're among my best friends. And they're happy I'm spreading the redpill on this cucked board.
Enjoy the next 8 years, sweety

>>9097900
>not an argument

Can you retards stop responding to /pol/ memes already?

>>9097444
>Should these be made mandatory in every school around the world?

No. And I say this as a guy who likes Thomas Sowell.

>>9098094

Why are you trying to trot out that 8 years line at me? I was happy he won, you dope. Does your mind just flip a switch and assume that anyone making you feel like a retard is the enemy of Trump?

PROTIP: It's just because you're kind of a retard is all.

>>9098111
Your just pretending to get away from being BTFO.

Go cry to your reddit support group, left-wing degenerate faggot
Enjoy when Trump breaks down your pathetic ideology and restores the white race and masculinity

>>9098086
t. resentful autist university student who has never had to work a day in his life because he was bankrolled by his middle class suburbanite parents

>>9097444
This >>9098109

His Basic Economics and Applied Economics should be mandatory in Economy 101 courses though, together with Friedman's Free to Choose.

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>9098114
you think you're being ironic, but you're really just eating from a trashcan.

>>9098125
>Free to Choose
is this a memoir about the degenerate libertarian swinger lifestyle? is it true that friedman got really coked up while summering in Valparaiso and 'accidentally' had gay sex with general Pinochet?

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>>9098114

There are some ethno-nationalists that are smart and rational people.

And then there are some like you: mere hangers on who get shook and meme about Reddit a few posts in because they feel like mental midgets.

>>9098129
On one hand, marxists despise him and would make that kind of bullshit in a heartbeat, no doubt.

On the other, he WAS a jew, so it's not that farfetched.

>>9097588
... what?

>>9098152
What?

>>9098062
Good post

>>9098086
That reply was embarrassing. Not only did you not address anything I said and randomly bring up socialism as if to make yourself feel like you could understand what I'm criticising, you also just demonstrated the same retarded attitude that makes people like you so susceptible to manipulation by emasculating "nanny state" language - with the classic "snowflake" and "entitled millennial" remarks you made. This is all of the same servile attitude desperately dressed up as some sort of masculine American frontiersman outlook on life, that the clever men relish in using to take you all for a ride to lower standards of living.

I unironically love Dr. Sowell.
Race and Culture is one of my faves.
Which of his writings do you feel strongly about?

>>9097444
There's better libertarian writers out there. I think Sowell's works are okay but he tries to oversimplify things and I don't trust his intellectual integrity because some of his views seem at odds with others.

I much prefer people like Bryan Caplan or Tyler Cowen who hold unconventional but at the same time more logical coherent views with better arguments to back them up in their writings.

At the same time, if you really want to learn about supply-side economics, he's okay. Friedman is a lot better though.

Yes: him, Hoppe, Taylor, and Land are my principal influences.

>>9097771

>Keynesian economics

>Marx

>no Austrians

Mcfucking kill yourself.

>>9098062
Except that's not true. The US isn't much of a neoliberal country anymore if it ever was. Saying it is, is just so contradictory to huge facts (like government spending as a share of GDP for one) that I don't know how anyone could logically hold that view.

I hardly hold any pity for the American worker who lives better than 90% of the world while billions in the third world live lives of anguish because they live in countries that don't have market based economies or social stability.

>>9097819
You have genetic defects that cause physical deformities and mental retardation, including (in this case) the inability to form basic logical thoughts.

You are retarded. The thoughts you describe in your post are not the thoughts of a fully-functioning human brain.

>>9098233
Also to add to>>9098370
Friedman argued in favor of a negative income tax and open borders to improve the livelihood of billions of people. It's not his fault that modern conservatives or people like Trump want to destroy the welfare state while simultaneously restricting immigration.

>>9098369
Austrians are more of an internet sect than a serious economic school.

>>9098387
Friedman only argued in favor of a negative income tax as a better alternative to the welfare state though, arguing that the state can never be more efficient than the people - but he also left it clear that not having any welfare state would be the best option, and that charity would cover those who need help like it did prior to being crushed by the welfare state monopoly.

As for open borders, no, he didn't advocate for them. His point was that, before the welfare state, open borders offered labor which in turn improved productivity which in turn upped the standards of living, but that under the welfare state, that concept can't work anymore, as the state can't sustain unattended immigration that gets on the doe.

In other words, whenever (or at least most of the time when) Friedman argued for a leftist-looking point, he was only using it as a part of a longer argument about the inadequacies of state-sponsored welfare. And possibly of the Fed's.

His history of American slavery is one of the best things I've ever read.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao7FKReHYKY

Everyone who graduates from an American high school should have read and studied it. It would prevent 75% of this college campus horseshit activism

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>>9098420

>keyneisans
>marxists
>serious economic school

>>9098062

>Yeah, everyone nowadays from the left to the centre-right loves to hear another neo-liberal Friedman

>neo-liberal

Opinion discarded.

>unironically equates social welfare with slavery and wants to abolish the minimum wage.

Welfare is a repulsive parasitism and minimum wages iniquitously distort prices upwards, hinder techno-economic progress, and prevents me from paying my workers what I wilt by means of violent coercion; additionally, a minimum wage prices people whose labor-value is below it out of work (which is also unfair and achieved through violent coercion).

>Why the fuck are Americans so constantly enthralled by these people wanting to take advantage of the working and middle class?

Define 'take advantage'. We can debate The Labor Theory of Value or you can shut up; 'exploitation' is extraction of surplus labor-value or it is nothing.


>How many times does the Western World have to scream at you that you are a wealthy nation making your lives needlessly precarious and less wealthy

Socialism impoverishes a nation whilst capitalism enriches it.

>by allowing these men tell you that your democratically elected government is the enemy

The State is our enemy and democracy --- especially --- is our enemy. I am a neoreactionary: I utterly despise democracy because it empowers authoritarian imbeciles such as yourself.

>and not the unelected corporations that these men pander to?

Private companies are preferable precisely because neither violence nor democracy has imposed its multifarious desecration upon them.

>How many times can you be swayed by emasculating language like "nanny state" to disempower your government in pursuing policies

The State should mostly be maximally disempowered.

>that prevent capitalism from pushing a race to the bottom in wage rates

Caused by The State.

>labour protections

Are an authoritarian infringement upon rights of contract and should be abolished.

>environmental considerations

Pollution is a violation of private property rights and no libertarian is supportive of legalizing it.

>The economic philosophy of these men

Has unfortunately gone unheeded. The rest of your opinion can be discarded.

>widening income disparity

And?

>and a further debasement of the culture by essentially reducing everyone to thinking that perverse inequality is a virtuous natural order.

Inequality is a virtuous natural order.

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>>9097467
>Pinochet
lmao

>>9098086

His rant was basically 'Reddit: The Political Philosophy'.

>>9097735
Aryan Logic™

>>9098125

Hoppe > Friedman.

>>9098432
>Friedman only argued in favor of a negative income tax as a better alternative to the welfare state though

What's wrong with this? Surely an ideal society would try to minimize the amount of people receiving welfare.

> As for open borders, no, he didn't advocate for them

https://openborders.info/friedman-immigration-welfare-state/

Friedman supported more immigration and a reduction in the welfare state. Many libertarian economists, like Bryan Caplan or Tyler Cowen like a mentioned earlier view open borders as a solution to global poverty which is a far, far larger issue than poverty in the first world democracies.

> Friedman argued for a leftist-looking point, he was only using it as a part of a longer argument about the inadequacies of state-sponsored welfare. And possibly of the Fed's

This is true. Friedman wasn't a leftist, I never argued he was anything close. My argument is that libertarian solutions to global poverty are much better than leftist ones which basically boil down to "huge welfare for everyone in first world countries, fuck people in third world countries" or "huge welfare for everyone everywhere" with no regard for the huge economic drain that would have on the world economy.

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>>9098471

>>9098480
Also another good idea Friedman had would be to have a negative income tax for citizens while new immigrants would not be allowed to receive this money.

>>9098355

>There's better libertarian writers out there. I think Sowell's works are okay but he tries to oversimplify things and I don't trust his intellectual integrity because some of his views seem at odds with others.

The fuck? Sowell is a great libertarian theorist because --- like Hoppe --- opposes open borders bullshit.

>Bryan Caplan

Kill yourself.

>>9098453
>I utterly despise democracy because it empowers authoritarian imbeciles such as yourself.
>democracy
>authoritarian
nice meme-io you got there friend-io. we should go back to a libertarian paradise like Francoist Spain or the Roman Empire

>>9098355
Nick Land is the only honest/consistent libertarian writer

>>9098490
What's wrong with open borders? Conservative estimates are that it would close to double world GDP. In addition, the actual surge of immigrants would not be great enough to cause destabilization of any system, besides perhaps the welfare state.

>>9098420

>Austrians

>internet sect

>not a serious economic school

You are a fucking retard. Austrians are literally better than any other school.

>>9098125
>His Basic Economics and Applied Economics should be mandatory in Economy 101 courses though,

If you're going to mandate an econ textbook, I'd go with Mankiw's Principles of Economics.

>>9098503
I disagree. My favorites libertarian writers are Bryan Caplan, Michael Huemer, Scott Sumner, David R. Henderson, Tyler Cowen, Alex Tabarrok, Greg Mankiw and David Friedman.

>>9098506
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLWuwicKgh4

>>9098506
>You are a fucking retard. Austrians are literally better than any other school.

Austrian economists are a bizarre ideological fringe group who don't believe in math. There's a reason that no respected modern economists (including conservative ones) are Austrian school.

>>9098517
let me guess, you have asthma and wear bowties unironically

>>9098445
Marx provides answers to questions raised by the classical school and refines most of their ideas, so he is a necessary read after ricardo. Keynes is objectively a main pillar of economics and not mentioning him would be ridiculous (complaining about including keynes in a basic economics reading list tells me that your whining is motivated purely by ideology, regardless of whether you like him or not).
Austrians main contribution to economics was probably their role in the rise of marginalism, but even if i was to include a marginalist i would chose walras, who is far more relevant than jevons or menger. But there's no point since marginalism is included in marshall's work. Aside from this, i don't see any reason to include austrians, most of their work would fall under "economic philosophy" rather than "economic theory" category (at least since sraffa destroyed hayek). Modern austrians are generally a bunch of drooling retards that only know of economics through memes and blogs (and are a disgrace to early austrians, honestly), which is probably your case.

Sorry that the lack of your meme internet school triggered you.

>>9098494

>Francoist Spain

Was demotic.

>Roman Empire

Libertarian compared with most places now.

>>9098506
no my internet sect is bestest

>>9098533
Nope. Less of a sperg than most people on this site actually.

>>9098480
>What's wrong with this?
Nothing at all. I agree with him. I was just clarifying.

But you were talking shit here >>9098387 when you should understand that, as long as there's a welfare state, immigration must be restricted. If, after restricting immigration, you want to go ahead and little by little dismantle the welfare state, one step which might be Friedman's negative income tax, that's cool. But what Trump is doing in the Mexican border is a right thing.

And I say this as a central american living in central america.

>>9098488
Again, Friedman himself believed the negative income tax was a bad idea. It was just a better idea than the current implementation of the welfare state. His idea was to go from regulated stamps with its baggage of bureaucracy to hard cash, and then when shit got better to eliminate the welfare state almost entirely. As well as stuff like the minimum wage, which is also something that can't coexist with open borders.

Only then do open borders make some sense. But not before. Not even a little.

>>9098504

>What's wrong with open borders?

If you're unironically asking that then are literally --- not figuratively --- retarded or astonishingly ignorant. You stupid fucking fuck.

>>9098517

>Bryan Caplan, Michael Huemer [...] Alex Tabarrok

>all open borders shills

You need a bullet, you absolute dumbfuck.

>>9098547
There's a pretty large literature on the benefits it would have on combatting global poverty. Only a stupid fucking fuck would ignore a post about it, not give any details why it's wrong and then get upset over it.

I hate it when people say "read the original thinkers" about a technical field like this. You wouldnt recommend someone start studying physics with Aristotle or Copernicus. You'd recommend a modern textbook.

>>9098535
I wanna let you in on a red pill. Despite the ((media's)) lies, Stalin was actually demotic libertarian capitalist.

>>9098547
>>9098557
Are you from /pol/ or something? Before you say no, I know the answer is yes. Why did all of you come here?

>>9098567
What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe.

>>9098559
You would if physics was a proto or pseudo science and new physics schools competed with old ones instead of replacing them.

>>9098524

>Austrian economists are a bizarre ideological fringe group who don't believe in math.

You don't understand Austrian epistemology at all. Opinion discarded.

>There's a reason that no respected modern economists (including conservative ones) are Austrian school.

Because they are shills or retarded.

>>9098576
Bryan Caplan used to be an Austrian. Here's his rationale for why he switched to mainstream economics. Pretty informative even if you are an Austrian. He holds many of the same views and teaches at probably the most Austrian economics department (GMU).

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/whyaust.htm

>>9098534

>i don't see any reason to include austrians, most of their work would fall under "economic philosophy" rather than "economic theory" category (at least since sraffa destroyed hayek). Modern austrians are generally a bunch of drooling retards that only know of economics through memes and blogs (and are a disgrace to early austrians, honestly), which is probably your case.

This is bullshit. Austrians understand economics more than any other school. Just see --- for instance --- how they apply The Subjective Theory of Value whilst 'mainstream economics' believe in bullshit like minimum wages.

>>9098588
You're aware that Chicago is mainstream right? Most of them don't favor a minimum wage.

>>9098588
Subjective value is part of marginalism, explicitly mentioned in the post, and part of mainstream microeconomics.
As most internet austrians, you seem to suffer from dunning kruger.

>>9097444
no,

Clearly a nigger around the woods

>>9098558

The entire country of Germany --- as one example --- is a physical demonstration of why open borders is a fucktarded idea. I don't give a shit about 'combating global poverty': I care about preserving White civilization.

Here is some good material debunking open borders:

http://www.xenosystems.net/suicidal-libertarianism/

http://www.xenosystems.net/suicidal-libertarianism-part-doh/

http://www.xenosystems.net/border-follies/

>>9098586

>Bryan Caplan

Opinion discarded.

>>9098608

>Subjective value is part of marginalism, explicitly mentioned in the post, and part of mainstream microeconomics.

Then they must be retarded if they appropriate marginalism whilst supporting a minimum wage.

>>9097735
So /pol/ is satire right? I refuse to believe people are genuinely this retarded

>>9098652
No. I used to find them funny but now it's like having a retard in the room who you just tune out.

>>9098596

How are you defining 'mainstream'?

>>9098816
non-heterodox economics schools.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_economics

This thread went full fucking retard. Can anyone answer whether or not Basic Economics is worth reading? I've started it and it seems okay so far.

>>9097483
Because you're a leftist and you're gay

>>9098890

I mostly read his more philosophical works but based upon what I have read of him I would say yes: Sowell is insightful, concise, and (darkly) enlightening.

>>9098111
>trot
>trips

Is that really you, Tarl?

>>9098904
Thanks anon, I will continue. His language is very clean and simple and it makes for easy reading so far.

Since our discussion has veered into appeals unto authority, here is Based Land refuting 'science by social consensus' which we both regard as a maximal epistemic perversion:

http://www.xenosystems.net/science/

'Science by social consensus' is perverse democratic epistemology exemplified.

>>9098504
>besides perhaps the welfare state
Yeah thanks for ruining my welfare state

>would not be great enough to cause destabilization of any system
Like that is the be all and end all of the 'is this a good idea' criteria. People want a bit more than just not a complete collapse. Welfare, standards of living, education standards and scientific research (which benefits the entire species btw), just to name a few.

You can have open borders once all third world countries have been raised out of being third world shitholes. You have to reach a somewhat homogeneous level of wealth and education first before you can open all borders without fucking up all the first world countries in the process.

>>9097444
How many times do you think he slept with James Baldwin?
Like pure hate sex
Lul

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>>9097566
I am reading it right now anon. It's pretty good desu.

>>9097566
Solid. It gets crap for not taking point on meme subjects that rely on current points of views, much like Ayn Rand. While you can question its total relevancy for this, you can't question its quality. Good first book on the subject.

>>9097771
Good list. Add J.S. Mill and Carl Menger and Von Mises please. Be fair. If there is ANY austrian economist who deserves to be read it's Carl Menger, followed by Von Mises.

Here is the list copied and pasted with the addition.

Classical economics:
The Wealth of Nations
On the Principles of Political Economy and Taxation by Ricardo
Principles of Political Economy by J.S. Mill
Das Kapital

Austrian economics:
Principles of Economics by Carl Menger
The Theory of Money and Credit by Ludwig Von Mises

Neoclassical economics:
Principles of Economics (Marshall)
The Theory of Interest as Determined By Impatience to Spend Income and Opportunity to Invest it

Keynesian economics:
The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money

Neoclassical synthesis:
Economics (Samuelson)

Neoricardians:
Production of commodities by means of commodities

Neokeynesians(?):

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>right-wing economics

I can't think of greater cuckery than this.

>>9099297
I'll take right-wing economics over left-wing starving to death.

>>9099317
Yeah, because privatising everything sure improved the lot of ex-socialist states... Just wonderful, take apart our worker cooperatives, our job security and subsidized education and housing, it will go well, Hayek said so!
Fucking kil yourself you desperate bourgeois cuck, you're not even aware of the amount of ideology you're swallowing.

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>>9099337
MMMMmMmMMmM

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>>9099337
Really activated my neural synapses

Where were you when it turn out that philosophy based on capitalism is worthless and overly idealistic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jltnBOrCB7I

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>>9099358
Wow what an amazing comeback!

>>9099337

Czechia, Slovakia, Poland, Baltics, Hungary, Slovenia are doing better though

hmmm...

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>>9099337
I agree with this guy.

>>9097444
Didn't even see the titles. But no.
NO books should be mandatory. Unless you are against free thought.

If you worry about your kids being stupid, teach them. Everyone else should have the right to not read the shit hand-picked by random old man in a committee.

He literally say that should watch BLACKED videos.

lmao, is there anything as embarrassing as basic bitch conservative "intellectuals"?

even marxists are better than a bunch of stodgy geezers in suits telling me about muh free marketx, muh constitooshun

>>9098890
there's not a single economics book you should read, they're all pseudoscientific garbage in a field with less predictive power than soothsayers

>>9099473

>lmao, is there anything as embarrassing as basic bitch conservative "intellectuals"?

yes. guys who say 'basic bitch'.
>>>/mu/

>>9099497
i've never been on /mu/, faggot, this expression is en vogue with people in my university, and in this case it conveys the intended meaning excellently

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>>9099501

well as long as it's en vogue then i'm sure it's fine.

>>9097735
Jesus

Get help

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>>9099174
>It gets crap for not taking point on meme subjects that rely on current points of views
What meme subjects are you talking about?
Please forgive my economic illiteracy. I only took a few lessons of Political Economy and Microeconomy in Law School some time ago and I've been interested in the subject for a couple of years.
I mostly read economic press but I feel it's usually partial or with little substance, and I'd like to understant the theory better in order to be able to read more advanced papers.

For instance, a lot of common people in my country usually defend opinions such as 'the State doesn't need to tax people since more money can be printed to pay debts and shit'; I know this shit is seriously flawed but I don't want to hesitate when they engage full "muh Krugman muh Stiglitz" mode. I feel like I'm being fooled around as a citizen when it comes to economics so I want to know more about the subject and know how much of the shit people yell is bullshit.

>>9098453
>Opinion discarded.

You really should have left it there. The rest of your post is an embarrassment to anyone on the serious parts of the economic right.

>Welfare is a repulsive parasitism and minimum wages iniquitously distort prices upwards, hinder techno-economic progress, and prevents me from paying my workers what I wilt by means of violent coercion; additionally, a minimum wage prices people whose labor-value is below it out of work (which is also unfair and achieved through violent coercion).

Are you listening to how hopelessly indoctrinated you are by this ideology and how contrary it is to basic human nature in a free and wealthy society? You use words like "iniquitously" while pretending that abolishing the minimum wage in an unregulated capitalist economy will do anything else other than push those on minimum wage as far down into destitution as they can go before becoming unproductive through depression or outright revolt. You parrot the same crap that briefly reduced a fine mind like Friedman to the status of an ideologue in suggesting that because some people will inevitably be laid off work as a result of an increase the minimum wage, then we shouldn't have much of a minimum wage (or in the eyes of Sowell, none at all), despite the painfully obvious demand side reality that the huge numbers of people at the bottom having more money in their pockets will lead to far more growth, stability, and upward mobility than a brief increase in unemployment or the inevitable rise in the prices of some goods could thwart.

>Socialism impoverishes a nation whilst capitalism enriches it.

The joke continues. Again, not only does it not address my point, I never used socialism in my criticisms, and in general I have very little interest in discussing it.

>Define 'take advantage'.

Convincing them on all kinds of grounds that "handouts" and unions are bad, while the owners of capital convince the government to afford them the most expensive and luxurious forms of socialist safety nets imaginable. There's a lot to be discussed on this topic, but one of the main ways in which the US working and middle class are exploited is essentially in the form of them being convinced to accept the existence of a fairly brutal form of capitalism for them, and a very cozy and perverse form of socialism for the rich.

> I utterly despise democracy because it empowers authoritarian imbeciles such as yourself.

Okay, so your ideology is in full view now. Not only am I an imbecile for supporting democratic values, but it is me who is the authoritarian in your eyes - this despite almost everything I'm arguing being an attack on all of the beliefs that lead us to tyranny and reductions in individual freedom and well-being

>Caused by The State.

You mean to say that the state forces wages downwards? The minimum wage is what, then?

>Inequality is a virtuous natural order.

Can you explain the virtues of it to me as you see it?

Sowell is true nigger-kino, but I prefere Walter Willams.

>>9098062
>>9098370
>>9097771
>people unironically using the word "neoliberal"
cringe

>>9100642
>checks the two posts
>no use of the word neoliberal
baka famalam

>>9100530
Artificially setting money wages lower over time actually causes an increase in the marginal efficiency of capital, usually causing a net rise in output over the business cycle if it's a sharp drop, but if it's not most likely this increase in profit is absorbed in saving, not invesment, this disequilibrium pushes down the level of investment so its scarcity matches that of saving's higher rate. Once this is completed, the liquidity preference for money rises and the short term interest rate skyrockets, while the long term rate lowers itself. This is good for people who want to invest long term, because if you buy a bond while the interest is low, you're going to be able to sell big depending on how convertible it is.

Basically lowering money wages sharply at once could be argued to be good for the economy through Keynesian philosophy, but a slow lowering of money wages over time is just good for business, that's about it.

>>9100653
>checks the last post
>no use of the word neo-liberal

baka desu senpai

>>9100642
neoliberal is just an euphemism for a neocon who runs as a democrat

>>9097444
>made mandatory
authoritarian fuck

>>9100683
You went through the process of slow wage depression more concisely and efficiently than I could. The sharp lowering of wages that could be achieved through the abolition of a minimum wage has interesting arguments surrounding it, I admit, but I can't say I've ever been bothered reading too much into all of them them because it seems to me to be all based around short term hypothetical outcomes in the context of enacting something so obviously regressive and undesirable to begin with.

>>9101230
I'm not talking about the abolition of a minimum wage though, just a sharp decrease in the wages of a particular industry.

>>9099552
>using an expression is analogous to mutilating your genitalia
what did he mean by this

>>9101533
Yeah, I got that. I just thought I'd tie what you had said in a little bit to what I had been arguing. An abolition of the minimum wage would lead to the sharp decrease at once of the lower wage rates, and the arguments that it could be good were something that you mentioned.

I'm about 50 pages into Black Rednecks and White Liberals after watching BtF's video, which says a lot doesn't it, and idk something about it just seems wrong and hard for me to take seriously. Granted I have not finished the book and this is my first related to the topic. What did you think of it, /lit/?

If you want to learn economics read an actual fucking textbook on economics. It may be a field full of failed mathematicians and physicists, but it's still quantitative enough to be nontrivial. Something like 'Basic Economics' is the equivalent of a popsci book.

>>9102917
>'Basic Economics' is the equivalent of a popsci book.

Reading Basic Economics will give you a better understanding of economic principles than most people, just liking reading popsci will make you more informed about science than most people.

Not everyone lives in the world of theory and academic journals you know

>>9102333
There are some arguments for this, but there are many against it. Letting workers have input into what their wages should be is extremely important for the economy to function. From a pragmatic perspective, letting the employers set the wages typically results in true inflation setting in much sooner than it otherwise would because the elasticity of wages already being so low, because of the inactivity of unions or legislation setting their equitable salary, the point would be reached where an increase in the price of the good can no longer result in an increase in the output, being that the marginal cost-unit equaling the additional income afforded by increased output without raising the price is reached at a MUCH lower employment than it otherwise would be. There results an effective demand-supply gap much bigger than it otherwise would have been, the propensity to consume being much less as well.

>>9097471
lmfaoooo

I don't see Intellectuals & Society or The Vision of the Anointed, wai?

>>9103031
Reading popsci books on quantum mechanics has made a whole lot of people actively less informed about it to the point where they believe stupid shit.

>>9097444
No, but some of these would be good books to assign for high school government or history classes. I've read a few of Sowell's books, Conflict of Visions, Migrations & Cultures, and a few others, and he makes reasonable arguments and provides good supporting citations. Sometimes he veers off into sounding like a more dignified, academic version of Glenn Beck, as in parts of Intellectuals and Society, but his best books don't fall into this.

quick question - what exactly does "dope" mean? Also, did it meant something else back in '70?

>>9103605
Means 'cool' now, meant 'marihuana' in the past.

File: Sowell.png (120KB, 284x879px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 284x879px

>>9102917
>If I call it popsci that will end the discussion

Not discouraging textbooks or anything because that's good reading too, but if you don't think it's possible to have theories and any learning in books then that's completely wrong.

>yeah just writing away popsci for fun

>>9103850
Not him but why would you want biased theory mixed in with the basics if you really want to learn it from scratch? Especially when people like Mankiw and Cowen/Tabarrok make such detailed yet understandable textbooks.

>>9104212
You read multiple theories then.

>>9104212
Gregory Mankiw is such a dickhead

>>9104369
Why?

>>9097444

As much as I find some of the stuff Sowell says to be insightful, I feel like he's become to go to meme writer for armchair Nazis from /pol/ looking for a black guy to "confirm" their delusions because he's critical of modern black culture and left wing thought, despite the fact that Sowell libertarian values are the furthest thing from their fascist wet dreams